Raising Parents with Emily Oster
Episode 6: Are Smartphones Stealing Childhood?
Date: October 23, 2024
Host: Emily Oster
Guests: Jonathan Haidt, Johann Hari, Ben Halpert, Hannah Ortel, and voices from teens and parents
Episode Overview
This episode interrogates one of the most urgent parenting questions of our era: Are smartphones fundamentally harming children’s development, health, and happiness—and, if so, what can parents do? Emily Oster explores the evidence, draws on top experts, and features candid reflections from kids and parents themselves. The discussion pivots from the historical moment of smartphones’ emergence to the urgent realities of their consequences, and ends by considering practical, collective solutions for families and schools.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Transformation Brought by Smartphones
- The Tech Revolution: Oster opens by reflecting on how cell phones, once “bricks,” became indispensable appendages, culminating in the smartphone era, which debuted with the iPhone in 2007 ([01:02]-[02:35]).
- Personal and Societal Impact: Oster admits her own “disturbingly high” screen time and notes relief that she "got through her youth" without such powerful and addictive technology ([02:35]-[03:23]).
The Scale of the Problem
- Stunning Statistics ([07:45]-[08:54]):
- By 10, 42% of US kids have a phone; by 12, 71%; by 14, 91%.
- Teens use phones “almost constantly” (46%); 80% use phones before sleeping, worsening sleep deprivation.
- Kids spend 7.5 hours/day on screens for entertainment; teens average 9 hours/day on their phones.
- “Text neck” and other physical repercussions are on the rise even among young children.
- The Safety Paradox: Parents give kids phones for “independence” and “safety,” but this often serves adult convenience more than child development ([04:19]-[05:20]).
Are We in a Moral Panic—Or Not?
- Oster and guests question whether fears over smartphones echo past panics over TV, radio, and other new media—or represent a true threat ([14:01]-[14:24]).
- Jonathan Haidt: Mental health metrics were stable or improving for Millennials (on flip phones) but worsened in the early 2010s—precisely when smartphones and viral social media became dominant ([14:31]-[15:31]).
"Right exactly at 2012, 2013, that’s when so many of these graphs just begin to go up like a hockey stick."
—Jonathan Haidt, [15:31]
The Nature and Depth of Harm
Cognitive Harm:
- Attention Fragmentation:
- Johann Hari links nearly all meaningful achievement in life to “sustained attention,” now under siege ([16:31]-[17:05]).
- Teens like Bella (17, Ohio) and Vivi (15) echo this—describing a before-and-after loss of “deep focus” with the arrival of their phones ([17:19]-[18:14]).
“I used to devour like thousand page novels in like two or three days and I can’t do that anymore… my attention span is way different than it used to be.”
—Bella, age 17, [17:22]
Emotional and Social Harm:
- Loss of Real Connection:
- Ruby LaBroca (18, never had a phone) mourns the loss of conversational depth and “eye contact” among peers who got phones ([10:43]-[11:52]).
“Conversation dissipated. The friends I had treasured...were suddenly not able to do that on a very basic level. We’re sort of operating with a different language.”
—Ruby LaBroca, [10:43]
- Experience Blocker:
- Haidt calls the phone an “experience blocker,” occupying kids so fully it “blocks out almost all other experiences”—from hobbies, reading, outdoor play, “even just being present” ([21:18]-[21:50]).
- Oster underscores this by drawing an analogy: “What if your kid told me, my plan is to sit in my room for nine hours a day and stare at the wall?” ([21:18]-[21:50])
Physical Health and Sleep
- Disrupted Sleep: 80% of teens use smartphones in place of sleep, with severe long-term consequences ([08:01]-[08:54]).
- Physical Ailments: The spread of “text neck” and similar syndromes.
Multitasking and “Switch Costs”
- False Multitasking: Hari cites neuroscientist Earl Miller: “You can only consciously think about one or two things at a time. That’s it” ([23:48]-[24:45]).
- Switch Cost Effect: Being interrupted or toggling tasks is “twice as bad for your intelligence as getting stoned” ([26:00]-[27:00]).
"We and our children are living in a perfect storm of cognitive degradation as a result of being constantly interrupted."
—Johann Hari, [27:00]
Is the Future Inevitable? Pushing for Change
Overcoming Parent Helplessness and Peer Norms
- Collective Action Problem: Parents feel individually powerless—“Everyone else is doing it,” so they cave. Haidt identifies this as a classic “collective action problem” ([27:44]-[28:11]).
- Need for Collective Norms ([33:44]-[35:19]):
- No smartphones until high school.
- No social media until age 16.
- Phone-free schools.
- Restore independence, free play, and real-world responsibility.
“Once you give your kid a phone, it’s going to block out almost all other experiences. It’s the medium, not the content.”
—Jonathan Haidt, [21:18]-[21:50]
- Role Models: Families like Russell and Kourtney’s (95% non-digital household) report their children are “unsullied,” and still engage deeply with the physical world ([44:13]-[45:02]), but note occasional social exclusion.
Can Kids Self-Regulate?
- Ben Halpert (Savvy Cyber Kids): Kids know tech is addictive and want help with limits—“the majority of answers [for why they bring phones to bed] are because my parents don’t take it away” ([31:05]-[32:09]).
- Imposing restrictions is hard but necessary; “it takes about two weeks” for new rules to stick, and pushback is normal ([32:16]-[33:22]).
International and Schoolwide Movements
- Hannah Ortel (Delay Smartphones): UK parents are angry and pushing back, normalizing “dumb phones” as a first device ([35:55]-[38:48]).
- Oster’s Summary: School phone bans are gaining ground, e.g., LA Unified and New York City’s planned policies ([48:30]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On kids’ own views:
"Phones take away so much from kids… But reading is more important than they can know at a young age, and by having a phone in childhood, they're actually setting themselves up for a lifetime of having a short attention span."
—Ruby LaBroca, [46:55]-[48:30]
On the need for boundaries:
"Even if our children agree that in principle limits are good, they will resist them. It's their job to do that, and it's our job to say no."
—Emily Oster, [48:30]
On structural change:
“We have to do it collectively and we’re going to. We could get most schools phone-free this September 2024… If school principals would speak out, it would have a transformative effect.”
—Jonathan Haidt, [38:48]
On the broader spiritual cost:
“If you look at what the ancients said is the way to live your life, the phone-based life does exactly the opposite… Basically it’s spiritual degradation. And I mean that as an atheist.”
—Jonathan Haidt, [42:03]
On parent attitudes:
"They’re more worried if their child is liked than is healthy. And I’m like, why is it so important? Who cares? Left out of what?"
—Russell, parent, [45:57]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:02] Emily Oster’s personal smartphone history and reflection
- [03:23] Research evidence on phones, kids, and mental health
- [07:45] Sobering statistics on youth phone/screen use and impacts
- [09:18] Jonathan Haidt’s “Entertainment City” thought exercise
- [11:52] Ruby LaBroca on social consequences of being phoneless
- [12:05] Johann Hari on how the tech industry designs for addiction
- [14:31] Haidt: Data shows decline begins with smartphones & social media
- [17:19] Teens Bella and Vivi on lost attention spans post-phone
- [18:25] Amitai: The benefits of a weekly tech Sabbath (Shabbat)
- [21:18] Phones as "experience blockers"—the medium, not just the message
- [23:48] Hari on multitasking and cognitive “switch costs”
- [26:00] The British study: interruptions cut IQ more than weed
- [27:44] Haidt: It’s a collective action problem
- [33:44] Haidt’s four norms to fix smartphone childhoods
- [35:23] Are we at an inflection point? UK experience
- [36:06] Hannah Ortel on how UK parents organize
- [41:07] The challenge school administrators face against parental expectations
- [42:03] Haidt on “spiritual degradation” of the phone-based life
- [44:13] Russell and Kourtney describe their low-tech parenting
- [46:55] Kids and teens deliver verdicts on phones, reading, and attention
Flow & Tone
Emily Oster brings her trademark mixture of sobriety, data-driven analysis, and empathetic engagement to the conversation. The tone throughout is urgent yet hopeful—framing the problem as massive but surmountable with collective willpower and boundary-setting. The inclusion of adolescent voices, frontline educators, and international parent activists makes the conversation vivid, and at times, emotional.
Takeaways & Action Points
- Smartphones and social media have driven a sudden, measurable rise in distraction, social disengagement, and mental health crises among American youth starting around 2012.
- The problem is “the medium, not (just) the content”—phones crowd out experience, attention, and development.
- Solutions must be collective: change norms, create phone-free schools, delay smartphones/social media, and restore real-world independence and play.
- Though parental resistance and peer norms make change hard, growing grassroots organizing (especially from the UK) provide blueprints for hope.
- Strong boundaries, held firmly and kindly, are not just desirable but necessary for a healthy childhood in the smartphone era.
This summary captures the core themes, evidence, and perspectives explored in this episode. It includes memorable quotes, timestamps, and addresses both the depth of the problem and the prospects for meaningful reform.