Am I A Hypocrite For Wanting A Prenup?

Summary

Ramsey Everyday Millionaires: Am I A Hypocrite For Wanting A Prenup?

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of Ramsey Everyday Millionaires, hosted by the Ramsey Network, listeners delve into the nuanced topic of prenuptial agreements within the context of financial planning and marriage. Featuring insights from Dave Ramsey, George Kamel, and other Ramsey Network hosts, the episode addresses whether seeking a prenup aligns with the principles of financial responsibility and equality advocated by the Ramsey philosophy.

Listener Background

Lynn's Financial Journey

Lynn from Madison, Wisconsin, shares her extensive financial background, setting the stage for her current predicament. At 58 years old, Lynn has experienced the challenges of being a single mother for 17 years, managing child support, maintenance, and health care for her two young children post-divorce. Her financial stability took a significant turn after a layoff prompted her to discover Ramsey Solutions. Embracing the Ramsey plan, Lynn completed Financial Peace University and achieved a net worth of $1.9 million, proudly reaching Baby Step Seven.

Lynn [02:11]: "I started with a net worth of $170,000. My life insurance was more than my net worth. So coming into the marriage, I was baby step seven with a net worth of $1.9 million."

Husband's Financial Landscape

Lynn's current marriage to her husband, aged 54, brings a different financial dynamic. Entering the marriage with a net worth of $150,000, her husband carried various debts, including car loans, a boat loan, and multiple credit cards. Recognizing the financial strain, Lynn introduced him to Ramsey Solutions, guiding him through Financial Peace University. Together, they successfully eliminated their debts, aligning their financial goals and practices.

The Conflict Over a Prenup

Despite their financial progress, a significant dispute arises around the topic of a prenuptial agreement.

Lynn's Proposal

Lynn advocates for a prenup to safeguard her substantial financial contributions and ensure clear terms in the event of a divorce or death. Her proposed agreement includes:

• Divorce Clause: Allocation of the $625,000 invested in their residence solely to her, with any amount beyond that to be split equitably.
• Death Clause: Complete ownership of the house to her husband in the event of her passing, preventing any claims from her estate.
• Retirement Accounts: Maintaining the principle that their retirement accounts remain separate, with only the earnings from these accounts being commingled and subject to equal division.

Lynn [03:56]: "I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted the $625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residence accounted for."

Husband's Reaction

Contrarily, Lynn's husband perceives the prenup as unnecessary and an indication that she doubts the longevity of their marriage. He argues that once married, everything should be considered equal, rejecting the notion of a prenup entirely.

Lynn [04:24]: "He's like, absolutely. This is ridiculous. I can't believe that you're gonna have. You're gonna be asking for a prenup."

Lynn [04:24]: "Once we're married, we're married, and everything should be equal."

Hosts' Discussion and Insights

George Kamel's Perspective

George emphasizes that prenups are highly situational and often unnecessary unless there is a significant disparity in net worth, generation wealth, or complex financial backgrounds involved.

George [05:10]: "Prenups are a very nuanced thing. And usually what we say is, unless there's a massive gap in net worth...most people don't need one."

He also suggests that Lynn and her husband might benefit more from counseling to address underlying trust and communication issues rather than focusing solely on the legal aspects of a prenup.

Dave Ramsey's Take

Dave Ramsey echoes George's sentiments, highlighting that a prenup can sometimes signal a lack of trust within the marriage. He shares his own marital experience of 27 years without a prenup, emphasizing commitment despite hardships.

Dave [06:03]: "I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgement that we could finish this thing and end this thing."

Dave advises that Lynn and her husband seek counseling to navigate their fears and past experiences that are influencing their current dispute.

Dave [06:46]: "I think you both need to go to counseling and deal with the underlying trust and communication issues."

Conclusion and Advice

The Ramsey hosts collectively advise Lynn to reconsider the focus on the prenup and instead prioritize counseling to strengthen their relationship and address mutual fears. They acknowledge her valid concerns stemming from past experiences but stress that a prenup might not be the solution within their particular financial and emotional context.

George [05:30]: "There's no hypocrites here. You did nothing wrong... You should just go to counseling."

Dave [06:37]: "I would have said ahead of time. I want you to go to counseling because you've got some very natural fears, Lynn."

Ultimately, the episode underscores the importance of communication, trust, and mutual understanding in financial planning within a marriage, advocating for solutions that foster unity rather than division.

Notable Quotes

• Lynn [03:56]: "I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted the $625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residence accounted for."
• George [05:10]: "Prenups are a very nuanced thing..."
• Dave [06:03]: "I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgement that we could finish this thing and end this thing."

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Ramsey Everyday Millionaires continues to explore the financial journeys of ordinary people achieving extraordinary wealth, offering practical advice and real-life solutions to help listeners build their own path to financial peace and prosperity.

Transcript

[Lynn]

Foreign.

[George]

This episode is brought to you by SmartVestor. Connect with an investing pro near you at RamseySolutions.com SmartVestor let's go to Lynn in Madison, Wisconsin.

[Dave]

Lynn, how can we help?

[Lynn]

Hi, guys. I do need your help.

[Dave]

Well, good news. We have got help to give. I mean, I can't think of two guys that are more helpful than usual. So you're in. Good.

[Lynn]

Well, yeah, I have. I'm hoping to get a dispute settled.

[Dave]

Oh, I love dispute. Oh, it's between you and your husband.

[Lynn]

It is.

[Dave]

All right, let me ask this before we get going. Is he by chance in the room with you?

[Lynn]

He's not.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Lynn]

He's not. I wish he were.

[Dave]

I do, too, because I am now starting this new trend here. George, we've done this one or two times. We get both of them on the phone.

[George]

Yeah, that's more fun. Okay, we'll hear one side.

[Dave]

All right, Lynn, let's go. Let's hear your side. And his son.

[Lynn]

Okay. All right. Well, the question is, I want to know if I'm a Ramsey Solutions hypocrite.

[George]

Oh, I'm fighting words.

[Dave]

I like how you lead off here. We'll see if you're a Pharisee. Go ahead.

[Lynn]

All right. All right, well, some quick background.

[Dave]

All right.

[Lynn]

This is a second marriage for both of us. We were just married this past December.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Lynn]

I'm age 58. He's age 54. We have a total of four adult children, two on each side. And I think a key thing for me was I was a single mom for 17 years, so my kids were 2 and 3 when I was divorced. And I paid maintenance and I paid child support. I carried the health care, and I paid for all the incidental for my kids. I found Ramsey Solutions after a layoff that scared me to death. So the stress left me, you know, not a great place. And I. I dug into the Ramsey plan. I bought in, I listened. I did Financial Peace University, and I started with a net worth of 170,000.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Lynn]

My life insurance was more than my net worth. So coming into the marriage, I was baby step seven with a net worth of 1.9 million.

[Dave]

Hey, way to go, Lynn.

[Lynn]

It was a lot of. Well, it was a lot of.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

Small vacations at the local park.

[Dave]

You're a rock star. Don't mess with mama bear. Lynn, listen, let's just call that out. That's hard work. Good for you.

[Lynn]

Thank you. It was hard work, but it was worth it because now here I am. So baby step seven and now, my husband, he came to the marriage with a net worth of 150,000. And he was one of those guys who never found debt he didn't like. He had car loans, he had a boat loan. He had credit cards. He kind of had everything. And obviously, since we're married, we financially got into the same place. So I introduced him to Ramsey Solutions, gave him financial peace University. We went through that. He's come aboard. So we've eliminated the credit card debt, the car loan, got rid of everything I wanted going into the marriage. I wanted a prenup. And this is where the dispute came. And I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted to. The 625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residence accounted for. Now, that was if we divorced. I also asked for a death clause that states that should I die, he gets the house in the entirety, and there's no splitting it with my estate or anything like that. Die, that would be his. So it's just a divorce. If there was a divorce, I wanted that accounted for, and then anything above and beyond that would be split equitably. And it's our intent that our retirement account would remain separate. So the principle of our retirement accounts would remain separate. If we draw anything out to pay for things for us, that's all commingled. And everything that all the other cash, everything would be split equally. If we divorced, I wouldn't be saying, like, oh, well, we paid off the car while we were married, so my cash paid that off, or whatever. It was none of that.

[Dave]

So what specifically is he calling hypocritical.

[Lynn]

That I wanted a prenup?

[Dave]

Just the prenup. Did he have any? But was he fine with certain parts of the. That agreement? You just laid out a list. Was he against all of those things?

[Lynn]

All of those things? He's like, absolutely. This is ridiculous. I can't believe that you're gonna have. You're gonna be asking for a prenup. Once we're married, we're married, and everything should be equal. I'm like, well, it is equal. I'm just saying if we get divorced, because I've been divorced before, and I'm now 58. If I split half, which Wisconsin is a 5050 state. Yeah, I don't. I don't have time to recoup that again.

[Dave]

All right, so. And how long you been married?

[Lynn]

Two months.

[Dave]

I'm going to ask a stupid question, George, that I think you know the answer to.

[George]

I may not.

[Dave]

Try me can you get a prenup?

[George]

Post marriage, post nuptial?

[Dave]

You can.

[George]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

No, we have the document now. We have it now.

[Dave]

Oh, so he didn't want it, but you went ahead and got it drawn up anyway?

[Lynn]

Yep, we got it drawn up. He was. He got to a place where. Those were the things we agreed on. I was trying to explain, like, hey, all. We're sharing all bank accounts. We're sharing everything.

[Dave]

No, no, I get all that. I get all that. So, like. So is it signed?

[Lynn]

It's signed. The prenup was signed before our wedding.

[George]

But he just resents you.

[Dave]

So why are you calling us again? I mean, so what's the dispute? It's all. This is all moot point.

[Lynn]

No, no, I'm still a hypocrite.

[Dave]

Oh, he's his words.

[Lynn]

And I don't. I'm not truly into the Ramsey solutions.

[George]

Okay, well, just let me free you of all of this. There's no hypocrites here. There's no Ramsay Bible that you've sinned against. Prenups are a very nuanced thing. And usually what we say is, unless there's a massive gap in net worth and yours, it truly is not like a, oh, my gosh, you're bringing millions and millions in. You have a family business. There's massive generational wealth here. We're talking about someone who prepared for retirement and someone who's just getting started. And it sounds like he's on the same page. You're on the same plan now. So you're on the edge of, like, is this even necessary? But I understand with your backstory that you're just going, hey, I just can't be left out in a lurch, you know, not unable to retire. Something were to happen. So I think you both need to go to counseling and deal with the underlying trust and communication issues. But there's no hypocrites here. You did nothing wrong, quote, unquote. So let me release you of that. That no one's going to quote.

[Dave]

Yeah, we don't have, like, a blanket policy on that.

[George]

No, it's just most people don't need one.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[George]

And the guy goes, well, I'll make 40 grand and she makes 20. I need. No, dude, you don't need a prenup.

[Dave]

This is.

[George]

We're talking about protecting your stuff from the crazy family around you, not from each other.

[Dave]

Yeah. And had you called us. Had you called us before you got it signed, I would have said, same thing that George said. But I would have said, I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgement that we could finish this thing and end this thing. And I'm not judging anybody that's been divorced. I want everybody to hear this. I'm not judging anybody. Okay? I am blessed to come from. My wife and I both come from families where our parents have been married over 50 years. So we have a heritage that we inherit. We inherit. We saw it. And when Stacy and I got married, there was no out. And we've been married 27 years. And there have been times it's been very, very hard. There's no out now. That's our position. I'm not prescribing that to anybody. I'm not proselytizing today. But I would say that I would have said ahead of time. I want you to go to counseling because you've got some very natural fears, Lynn. And I understand. I'm empathetic to go. If I were in your shoes, I could see where you could get to that point and want to protect yourself. You've been burned, but so is he. And I think that this should have been counseling on the front end. You should not have forced this. I'm going to say something crazy here. If it were me, I'd tear it up and then I'd go to counseling. I think you forced the issue on this and I think you got to re redo it. That's what I would do. Oh, boy, here come the hate mail.

[George]

Thanks for tuning in to Ramsey. Everyday millionaires need help with your investments? Connect with a smartvestor [e-mail] smartvestor or click the link in the show notes. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.