When Do We Stop Investing for Retirement?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "When Do We Stop Investing for Retirement?"

Podcast: Ramsey Everyday Millionaires
Hosts: Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze
Air Date: April 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a sophisticated question many financially successful listeners eventually face: When should you stop contributing so aggressively to retirement accounts? The discussion is sparked by a high-earning caller, Jordan, who has diligently followed the Baby Steps, crushed his debt, and amassed a considerable nest egg—only to now wonder how to balance retirement savings with having financial freedom before standard retirement age. The hosts, Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze, deconstruct when and how to adjust your investing strategy, discuss FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early), and explore the importance of thoughtful, long-term planning—even for those “ahead” of the curve.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Jordan’s Milestone and Question

• [00:17-01:11] Jordan from Minneapolis shares his excitement: after following Ramsey’s Baby Steps, he and his wife (ages 35 & 36) are debt-free and have just completed Baby Step 6.
  • Quote:
    “My wife and I have been following your program since we could walk. It feels like parents taught us it and grew up in it.” – Jordan [00:32]
• [01:29-02:17] Now, with debt gone and substantial savings, he asks: Should they keep maximizing retirement accounts? Or should they pursue investments accessible before age 59½ to allow more flexibility or early retirement?
  • Situation:
    • Retirement savings: ~$600,000
    • Combined annual income: ~$700,000
    • Profession: Sales in industrial plastics

2. FIRE Movement & Quality-of-Life Tradeoffs

• [02:45-03:11] Dave identifies Jordan’s interest in FIRE and signals that research on FIRE shows pitfalls not often discussed (such as underestimating life satisfaction and future needs).
  • Quote:
    “There’s a movement called financially independent retire early. The fire movement. Are you familiar with it?... I had a sense that that was the case.” – Dave Ramsey [02:47, 03:04]
• Dave plans to “challenge” some of the math and expectations inherent in FIRE, especially regarding the sufficiency of retirement sums and expectations for happiness and fulfillment.

3. The ‘15% Rule’ and Balancing Account Flexibility

• [03:22-05:29] Rachel explains Ramsey’s investing approach:
  • Max out Roth IRAs and 401(k)s up to annual limits (now $14,000 per couple for Roths, ~$26,000 per person for 401(k)s).
  • If possible, stop before doing “mega backdoor Roths” unless still under the 15% investing threshold.
  • After retirement accounts are maxed, consider taxable brokerage accounts to build wealth accessible before retirement age.
  • Quote:
    “I still want to max out 401ks and Roths, but I’m, you know, for us beyond that, we’re going to where we can actually get the money before 59 and a half.” – Rachel Cruze [05:13]
  • Diversification, and seeking guidance from experienced investment pros (“SmartVestor”) is encouraged.

4. How Much Is ‘Enough’? The Pitfalls of Over-Confidence

• [05:31-07:14] Jordan shares that with 23 more years of maxed contributions and 8% returns, he’d hit $8 million at 59½.
  • Thinks: “I don’t need this much money in retirement.”
  • Dave pushes Jordan (and listeners) to challenge that assertion and perform detailed, concrete lifetime financial modeling—including living until 90 and supporting family needs.
  • Quote:
    “Is 8 million enough from 59 to 90?” – Dave Ramsey [07:15]
• Dave references research showing many FIRE adherents miscalculate or underestimate their long-term needs; some report regrets later.

5. Purpose Beyond Money—Planning for Life, Not Just Numbers

• [07:22-08:23] Rachel reframes the portfolio question beyond just the couple’s needs, suggesting thoughtful legacy planning, giving, or even purchasing homes for their kids might become relevant.
  • The importance of preserving tax advantages of retirement accounts is restated, but also recommends building flexible, taxable assets for spending or giving goals before RMD age.
  • Quote:
    “This is like, what am I gonna do? Like, what if we bought our kids their first house? I mean, with your income, what y’all can do to set your kids up...” – Rachel Cruze [07:54]
• Dave and Rachel underscore identity and mission: retirees (especially FIRE adherents) often unexpectedly miss the structure, challenge, and purpose of meaningful work.
  • Quote:
    “I’m fine with you walking away from this current gig for a year or two, but come up with another plan, because one of the things that we’re seeing is people—they miss the structure, they miss the challenge, they miss the adventure, having something bigger than them to go to.” – Dave Ramsey [09:00, 09:24]
  • Rachel: “Don’t totally cash out of work. I think that’s a mistake because I think we were created to do something, to contribute something.” [09:24]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “My wife and I have been following your program since we could walk.” – Jordan [00:32]
• “That is impressive at your age to be @Baby Step 6. Congratulations.” – Dave Ramsey [01:21]
• “There’s a movement called financially independent retire early. The fire movement. Are you familiar with it?... I had a sense that that was the case.” – Dave Ramsey [02:47, 03:04]
• “I still want to max out 401ks and Roths, but I’m, you know, for us beyond that, we’re going to where we can actually get the money before 59 and a half.” – Rachel Cruze [05:13]
• “Is 8 million enough from 59 to 90?” – Dave Ramsey [07:15]
• “What am I gonna do? Like, what if we bought our kids their first house? I mean, with your income, what y’all can do to set your kids up...” – Rachel Cruze [07:54]
• “They miss the structure, they miss the challenge, they miss the adventure, having something bigger than them to go to.” – Dave Ramsey [09:24]
• “Don’t totally cash out of work. I think that’s a mistake because I think we were created to do something, to contribute something.” – Rachel Cruze [09:27]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [00:17-01:10] – Jordan introduces himself, celebrates becoming debt-free, explains current situation
• [01:29-02:17] – Retirement vs. pre-retirement investing dilemma, details of income/assets
• [02:45-03:11] – FIRE movement, Dave foreshadows deeper debate
• [03:22-05:29] – Rachel’s advice on maxing retirement accounts, then diversifying into taxable investments
• [05:31-07:14] – Projections for retirement savings, reality check on “enough,” emotional/psychological implications
• [07:22-08:23] – Broader legacy planning, benefits of taxable flexibility
• [09:00-09:27] – Autonomy vs. purpose in retirement; caution against quitting work entirely

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Episode Takeaways

• Max out tax-advantaged retirement accounts first, but for high earners and early retirees, build additional taxable investments for flexibility.
• Carefully model out lifetime financial needs—don’t underestimate cost of living, inflation, or legacy ambitions.
• FIRE is appealing, but many later regret underestimating financial and emotional needs; plan for fulfillment, structure, and purpose in post-career life.
• Use wealth not just for early retirement, but to enable giving, helping family, and funding adventures—money is a tool for a bigger life.

This episode offers both actionable financial tactics and a thoughtful look at how money and purpose intersect as you approach and move beyond financial independence.

Transcript

[Rachel Cruze]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

This episode is brought to you by smartvestor. Connect with an investing pro near [e-mail] SmartVestor let's go to Jordan in Minneapolis. Jordan, how can we help today?

[Caller Jordan]

Hey, guys. Love this show. I've been waiting to make this call for six years, so I'm equal parts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, jeez. Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Cruze]

This is a lot of pressure.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of pressure, man. Six years of buildup here.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hope we deliver. We will try our best.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, hit us with it.

[Caller Jordan]

So my wife and I have been following your program since we could walk. It feels like parents taught us it and grew up in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know how to make a guy feel old. I'll tell you, that just made me feel ancient.

[Caller Jordan]

Well, I'm 13, so this should be make you feel.

[Rachel Cruze]

You are 13.

[Caller Jordan]

No, I'm not.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was gonna say what I was like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wait, I thought you said you were married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, he was bad jokes.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

I started it, Jordan. It's my fault.

[Caller Jordan]

That's all right. So we've. We've been kind of focused on one plan of attack, which is knocking out the baby steps. And we just last month finished and checked the box on baby step six.

[Rachel Cruze]

Whoa.

[Caller Jordan]

So we're now liquid.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gosh, Jordan, how old are you guys? How old are you guys for real?

[Caller Jordan]

36. Yeah, 36. 35.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's not roll by this too fast.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is impressive at your age to be @Baby Step 6. Congratulations.

[Caller Jordan]

I appreciate it.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great.

[Caller Jordan]

So what's a little strange now, though, is I've been laser focused with one plan of attack, which is aside from contributing to 401ks and 529s and Roth, all my money goes into debt. And now all of a sudden, with my next paycheck, I don't know where to put my money. And I think I can kind of walk through that, maybe have some insight. But the reason I was calling was to ask you. My goal now is to not have to wait till retirement to have the option of not working. I don't know if I don't want to work but have that option. And so I'm kind of weighing around, given how young I am, I've got a pretty decent retirement account. Do you guys ever recommend to people and when do you recommend stopping these over contributions to my retirement accounts based on the size that I have right now, and maybe start putting money out in the market to bridge that gap to retirement?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How much you guys have in retirement?

[Caller Jordan]

Now about $600,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow. And how much you guys make a year?

[Caller Jordan]

About 700,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

700.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do?

[Caller Jordan]

I'm in sales.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you tell me without the product? Because I don't want you to say it, but what kind of stuff? What are you selling? What product or service do you sell?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, I basically sell plastic to a huge range of companies that are using it for medical, food industrials. My company makes that.

[Rachel Cruze]

So good.

[Caller Jordan]

I rep the US Amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm going to give Rachel time to. She's going to be great at spending your money. It's going to be wonderful. But I got to ask, because this is all tied into this. There's a movement called financially independent retire early. The fire movement. Are you familiar with it? Are you anyway in it?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, I'm obsessed with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had a sense that that was the case.

[Caller Jordan]

Wow. Good call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm gonna hold my comments.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, Ken, do you want to.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to spend his money first. Okay, I'll spend your money first. Mine is gonna be on some data based on the fire movement that he may not be ready for. And it's an interesting conversation about the quality of life. But I want you to help me with the money piece.

[Rachel Cruze]

So what I would say, Jordan is on baby step six, seven. Because this is kind of what Winston and I do. If I were just to be honest with you, that fifth, I still like that 15% going into investing in general. Now for you guys maxing out both of your Roths, I think this year will be like 14,000. You know, year seven, her seven maxing out 401ks, I think is like 26,000, all of that. So I would max those out. And. And then there's. There's like mega backdoor Ross that you can do a whole other thing, yada, yada, yada. But to your point, you're like, okay, I already have so much, but I can't touch this money. So I'm 59 and a half. Right. And now I'll say this too, Jordan. Many people are not in your situation where we're going. Most people, they. They're not able, from an income perspective, being able to max out their 401ks and their Roths every year. So what I would say is I would still max those out, not do them. You don't have to do all the mega backdoor Roths and all of that because there's like an additional 36,000 somewhere you can do or something crazy. So what you can do beyond that is, see within that 15% investing. When we talk about investing into retirement, you'll have to do the math on it. But just say if we both maxed out our Roths each year and we maxed out our 401ks to that 25, 26,000, how much of that 15% is left? That's what I would be curious about. And then beyond maxing those out, then yes, I would look into, you know, there's, we, we just sat down with our SmartVestor Pro last month to look at some of our other investing that we're doing outside of retirement. And there's so many great options out there, Jordan. I mean, it's everything from like, you know, there's certain index funds beating others in the S and P, you know, the vanguard options, like options within options. I mean, there's kind of that whole world out there that you can be putting your money into that you can get, you'll pay taxes on it, obviously, when you pull it out, but you'll be able to do that. So that's what I would recommend, Jordan, for you guys, because you're such a high income earner. I still want to max out 401ks and Roths, but I'm, you know, for us beyond that, we're going to where we can actually get the money before 59 and a half. Like what you're saying, does that make sense?

[Caller Jordan]

I think it does. And let me, let me just ask a clarifying question because I just pulled up a compound interest calculator and put those numbers in and just ran it. Assuming I worked until I was 59 and a half and I was looking at the number I'd end up with, I'm like, I don't need this much money in retirement. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, hold on.

[Caller Jordan]

Is your advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hold on, hold on. Just tell us what that number is. What's that number that you ran on your calculator?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, so I ran it, I ran it for 50. This is a couple of months back. So I'm kind of going broad strokes ran. It's up to 59 and a half. So 23 more years, assuming that the market's giving me an 8% return, and then I'm contributing along with what my company contributes in the range of $70,000 a year. And I was coming up with $8 million. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. And you, you're. And you at 59 and a half. You think 8 million is good to last you. Let's say you live to be 85.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, he's saying it's too much. He's saying that's too much. He doesn't need that much is what he's saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know what he's saying, and I'm challenging that. I'm challenging.

[Caller Jordan]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm challenging this. This is actually what I was going to come back to because I've done the research on this fire stuff. I mean, that's why I was able to figure out pretty quickly what you were doing. And there's been a lot of regret on this. One of the key challenges. And a lot of people have said they didn't realize that they actually needed more money. And I'm not saying that 8 million isn't enough. I'm not disagreeing. But I'm saying I want you to think about this and really dive into the numbers. And at 59 and a half, $8 million. And let's play that out and let's look at life expectancy where it is now, where we think it's going to be. But let's say you live to be 85, 90. And my. My smartvestor pro locally has got Stacy and I based on living to be 90 at a minimum now. Doesn't mean we're going to. He's not a doctor, but.

[Rachel Cruze]

And too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is 8 million enough? Is my que. You don't have to answer it, but I think you got to go figure out is 8 million enough from 59 to 90?

[Rachel Cruze]

And I would say this, too, Jordan, it. All of this, too, is beyond you guys, beyond you and your wife. This is now for kids. I mean, like, even, you know, even for Winston, depending on situations and how long we all work and all the things. But, like, we may not touch, you know, some of our retirement. It may be going to the kids, like, you know what I mean? So there is. It is a bigger place. So I don't think the question is as much how much do I need in your situation? Because you're gonna have plenty. You don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you should be enough, but you just don't know well.

[Rachel Cruze]

And.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And for like. And again, it's going beyond you. This is like, what. What am I gonna do? Like, what if we bought our kids their first house? I mean, with your income, what y' all can do to set your kids up. You know what I mean? You think about that. So. So I still like the tax advantage even if we don't touch retirement, right. Of. Of Roth IRAs and 401ks. And then beyond that, I am with you. And I would even diversify, Jordan. Again, because. Because you guys are making so much. So let me, like, let me caveat that, like, his income's insane, but he's

[Dave Ramsey]

also thinking about stopping and how soon.

[Caller Jordan]

That's that. That's the million dollar question. But I guess what I'm getting from you guys, which I think is wise, is that to forecast my financial needs in my 60s and 70s, it sounds like a lot of people are being deficient in that planning, and so they just bail. Are contributions.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And they think, Jordan, some of them are like, oh, I don't need that much to live off of. I'll be fine. And I just don't want to work. I just don't want to work. I'll be fine. And then they end up being like, well, crap, I kind of want to go on a nice vacation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

But I can't because I got to live on $60,000 every year or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm saying, like, and here's my bigger concern. I do think 8 million as smart as you are is probably fine. But I'm saying I want you to do the homework. But here's the thing on the fire movement, I want you to do your own homework. A lot of data out there. People who did that, they got into it and they came back. One of the primary reasons, they didn't have anything to fall back to. So I'm fine with you walking away from this current gig for a year or two, but come up with another plan, because one of the things that we're seeing is people, they miss the structure, they miss the challenge, they miss

[Rachel Cruze]

the adventure, Having something bigger than them to go to. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So working the same gig forever. No, you don't have to. And you will be fine, but don't totally cash out of work. I think that's a mistake because I think we were created to do something, to contribute something.