Gunther predicts PAIN for John Cena's Last Match: Raw Recap, Dec. 8, 2025

Summary

Raw Recap with Sam Roberts and Megan Morant

Episode: Gunther Predicts PAIN for John Cena’s Last Match: Raw Recap, Dec. 8, 2025
Date: December 9, 2025
Podcast: WWE x Fanatics Podcasts

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Overview

This episode delivers a jam-packed backstage pass to the December 8th edition of Monday Night Raw on Netflix, focusing on the explosive developments leading into John Cena’s final WWE match against Gunther. Hosts Sam Roberts and Megan Morant break down all the major storylines: from Gunther’s chilling predictions to the ongoing mystery of the masked man, the red-hot tag divisions, and a rapidly intensifying landscape in both the men’s and women’s rosters. Special guest Big E joins to unpack the reunion of The Usos, the significance of new exhibition matches, and, most importantly, how WWE history is about to be changed forever.

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Main Themes and Discussion Points

John Cena vs. Gunther: The Countdown to the End

Gunther’s Position as Cena’s Final Opponent

• The show opens by addressing the huge announcement: Gunther will face John Cena in his retirement match at Saturday Night’s Main Event (01:31).
• Fans have mixed feelings, fearing that Gunther’s "finality" could mar Cena’s celebratory send-off. Sam and Megan debate whether WWE audiences are emotionally prepared to see a definitive ending for Cena.

Gunther’s Psychological Warfare

• Gunther displays a countdown clock, marking the literal end of Cena’s career—a psychological tactic reminiscent of Cena’s own past mind games (02:29).
• "There is a reality that we always talk about that comes with Gunter." – Megan (04:09)
• Gunther’s promise to make Cena "give up," not just lose, is uniquely chilling. Cena is famous for his resilience—seeing him tap could shatter decades of ‘never give up’ mythology.

Does Cena Stand a Chance?

• The hosts reflect on Cena’s legacy: unlike other wrestling ‘GOATs’, Cena’s story is defined just as much by his crushing losses as his victories.
  "The thing about John Cena is… he’s unique… he’s lost a lot. And I think he’s lost more matches than people even mention." – Sam (06:09)
• Sam fiercely defends the possibility that Cena could go out triumphantly, subverting the bleak expectations Gunther is sowing.

Fan Preparation for Loss

• "I think everybody right now is sort of preparing themselves for the worst, because you have to." – Megan (12:40)
• The emotional complexity of Cena’s final match is highlighted: will this be a celebration, or the most devastating ending in WWE history?

Notable Quote:
“Gunther says he’s going to make John Cena do something he’s never done before. And that’s give up.” – Megan Moran (08:09)

Timestamps:

• Gunther vs. Cena anticipation: 01:31–13:31
• Analysis of the match’s emotional stakes: 06:09–08:44

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The Masked Man Mysteries

• After a brief hiatus, the “Masked Man” appears twice on this episode, clouding Raw in intrigue (18:29).
  • First, during an attack on Rey Mysterio post-Logan Paul ambush.
  • Then, at the main event between Logan Paul and LA Knight, stomping Knight on a table and opening the possibility of inside interference.
• Theories swirl: Could the masked man be Seth Rollins, KSI, or someone embedded deep in the Vision?
  • "Everyone’s a body language expert now. Zooming in on the eyes, the stomp…" – Sam (20:04)
• The hosts eliminate suspects live: It’s not LA Knight (“the masked man’s boot was imprinted in the back of LA Knight,” Megan, 24:37). Speculation continues regarding Seth Rollins, whose injury status and past double-dealing raise suspicions.

Timestamps:

• Masked man segment opens: 18:29
• “Is it Seth?” debate: 26:13–27:57

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Tag Team Explosions: The Usos Return

The Usos Reunite—Men’s Tag Division Uproar

• Jay Uso, downtrodden after multiple single failures, is rejoined by Jimmy for a heartfelt backstage segment (39:36).
• Sam quotes the emotional moment: “We got to get back to us. We got to block out the noise.”
• Big E offers unique insight, likening Jey’s volatility to a “diva wide receiver,” noting how being with Jimmy brings out his best, and the chemistry instantly clicks.
  • "They feel even stronger than ever, which is kind of crazy to think for… the greatest tag team of all time." – Big E (45:06)

Women’s Tag Scene Heats Up

• Liv Morgan’s smooth reintroduction, her selfless team-first attitude, and the sideline drama with Raquel Rodriguez and Roxanne Perez is discussed. Both Sam and Big E praise Liv, while Megan voices surprise at Raquel’s bold title challenge, highlighting the depth and unpredictability of the division (49:16–51:41).

Timestamps:

• Uso’s emotional promo #1: 39:36–44:48
• Women’s tag and Liv Morgan segment: 49:16–53:28

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Main Event Injuries & The Vision's Dominance

• LA Knight, the perennial underdog, takes a “tsunami” splash from Bronson Reed on top of a car, after being stomped by the masked man (33:44–34:35). The hosts speculate on LA Knight’s resilience and future after this chaos.
• The Vision faction’s growing power (with possible masked man reinforcements) has made them, in Sam’s words, "the most in control they’ve ever been" (34:59).

Timestamps:

• LA Knight attacked: 33:44–34:35
• The Vision’s ascendance: 34:59

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Building to Saturday Night's Main Event: NXT and Cross-Promotion

• Three massive exhibition matches at Cena's final show highlight WWE's investment in its future:
  1. AJ Styles & Dragon Lee vs. Je’Von Evans (NXT) & Leon Slater (TNA):
     “These two together—so athletic, so dynamic, so creative. …This match is going to be a barnburner.” – Big E (55:28)
  2. Bayley vs. Sol Ruka:
     “She went from ‘you gotta see this girl’s move’ to ‘you have to see this performer.’” – Sam (57:24–58:03)
  3. Cody Rhodes vs. NXT Champion Oba Femi:
     “Oba Femi…future WrestleMania main-eventer…already ready…Don’t walk away for a second, don’t blink because this man is the truth.” – Big E (61:07)

Timestamps:

• WWE x NXT/TNA exhibition analysis: 55:28–62:56

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Big E’s Perspective & The Gravity of Cena’s Retirement

• Special guest Big E joins to breakdown the emotional, historical, and competitive weight of Cena's last match.
• Gunther’s determination is seen as almost sadistic—a destroyer dead-set on not just beating, but humiliating Cena. Sam and Big E agree: if Gunther succeeds, this becomes a defining chapter in WWE lore that may scare other legends from ever taking “one last run.”
• "The last time they ever see you is going to be when you give up—that, boy, that is a statement.” – Big E (63:51)
• “Retiring Goldberg and retiring John Cena are not even remotely equivalent…” – Sam (66:27)
• A collective sense of dread and anticipation hangs over the hosts: “It’s going to be emotional, man. It’s going to be really, really emotional. I can’t wait to see it—but I don’t want to see it.” – Sam (68:10)

Timestamps:

• Big E on the magnitude of Gunther vs. Cena: 63:51–68:10

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Notable/Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Gunther’s chilling intent:
  "He wants to ruin it. He wants to ruin the thing. What have I told you? We can't have nice things." – Sam Roberts (10:55)
• On Cena’s unique story:
  "The thing about John Cena is… he’s unique… he’s lost a lot. And I think he’s lost more matches than people even mention." – Sam Roberts (06:09)
• Masked man speculation:
  "We're all body language experts now. Zooming in on the eyes, the stomp…" – Sam (20:04)
• Big E on the Usos:
  "They feel even stronger than ever, which is kind of crazy to think for… the greatest tag team of all time." – Big E (45:06)
• Big E on Gunther’s legacy:
  "…when this man speaks, when he had that opening promo, talking about what he was going to do to John Cena, I believe every single word he says." – Big E (63:51)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 01:31 – Cena vs. Gunther build-up and stakes
• 08:09 – Gunther's promise to make Cena give up
• 18:29 – Masked man attacks and ongoing mystery
• 33:44 – LA Knight injury and escalation
• 39:36 – The Usos reunite; breakdown with Big E
• 49:16 – Women's tag division heat and Liv Morgan’s comeback
• 55:28 – Cross-brand NXT/TNA exhibition matches
• 63:51 – Big E on Gunther/Cena’s legacy and gravity

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Takeaways for Listeners

Even if you missed this week’s Raw, this recap episode immerses you in every layer of the action, intrigue, and emotion unfolding as WWE approaches Cena’s grand finale. From Gunther’s ominous taunts to shocking ambushes, tag team resurgences, and breakout newcomers ready to grab the spotlight, the stakes have rarely been higher. The question looms larger than ever: who will write the last page in John Cena’s legendary story, and what will the WWE landscape look like once the dust settles?

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Stay tuned for a special post-Saturday Night’s Main Event episode, as Sam, Megan, and Big E unpack the aftermath of John Cena’s last stand.

Transcript

[Sam Roberts]

Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Big E]

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[Sam Roberts]

I'm not. Of course he did.

[Big E]

Right, Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski here.

[Sam Roberts]

He handles the nice list.

[Big E]

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[Sam Roberts]

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[Big E]

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[Sam Roberts]

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[Big E]

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[Sam Roberts]

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[Big E]

Visit t mobile.com.

[Sam Roberts]

Gunther tells us to our faces that he is going to crush our dreams. The women's tag division has never been hotter. The USO's are back in the men's tag division. That masked man shows up twice. And what condition is La Knight in after getting Tsunami? Not a car. This is the raw recap of WWE and Fanatics original production.

I mean, mysteries abound. Potential injuries abound, Destruction abound. But I guess it's just another Monday night in the wwe. Megan Moran. There is so much to talk about with the vision. I was seeing double vision. Two two instances of masked man sightings tonight on Monday Night Raw, Louisiana Night Tsunami. And not quite through, but at least indented into the roof of a car. We'll get to all of it. But first I got to ask you. Let's go back to the beginning of the night. Let's go back to the beginning of Monday Night Raw. Gunther is officially, as of Friday night smackdown, the man who will face John Cena in John Cena's final match. He's somebody that a lot of fans don't want to see wrestle John Cena.

[Megan Moran]

The Internet was going wild this weekend.

[Sam Roberts]

And I think in my opinion, one of the reasons if you really do some soul searching, if you really get into your feelings, if you really ask yourself the hard questions, why? I think that there is a finality to Gunther. I think that most of Gunther's matches end without they. I mean, they end with a bow on them. For lack of a better term. There's no question as to who the winners of these matches were. There's a finality. I think that finality is the last word that we're ready to deal with when it comes to John Cena and the fact that as of Saturday night, it will really be over. How do you feel about Gunther being the guy? How do you feel about that timer that he put on the screen? Reminiscent, by the way. There was a time when we all booed John Cena, and he's the one that was putting numbers on the Titan Tron that were counting down the number of appearances that John Cena had in the wwe. But he stopped counting down when he realized that maybe ruining wrestling was not something that he wanted to pursue. However, Gunther now comes in and he puts on an even more depressing counter. A literal, literal days, hours, minutes and seconds until John Cena's final match. So as I was asking you, how do you feel about Gunther as the opponent and how do you feel about what he said tonight?

[Megan Moran]

I don't feel thrilled about it because I want to celebrate John Cena at Saturday night's main event, and I want to celebrate John Cena's career. And I want to have John Cena hoisted out of the building while we all chant his name, but he's facing Gunter. And there is a reality that we always talk about that comes with Gunter.

[Sam Roberts]

Look. Yes, yes. However, there have been times when John Cena has been faced with that reality. And look, the magic of John Cena is when you look back and you look at the other people that take that goat moniker and the other people that are in that conversation.

[Megan Moran]

Becky Lynch.

[Sam Roberts]

I don't know. I think she's the only one saying that.

[Megan Moran]

A lot of people are saying it.

[Big E]

Who?

[Megan Moran]

The Bleacher Report.

[Big E]

Really?

[Megan Moran]

Sports Illustrated.

[Sam Roberts]

Okay. I hadn't read the article. Espn, I suppose, but she's still on boycott, so. No, I'm not.

[Megan Moran]

Well, I will continue to wear Becky Lynch T shirts.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, just please wash one of them.

[Megan Moran]

I will.

[Sam Roberts]

Okay, good.

[Big E]

Now.

[Sam Roberts]

No, I'm talking about the goats that you talk about over time, the heroes in the world of professional wrestling. Not the people who are, you know, up all night listening to wrestling radio shows and tweeting about him in all caps. I'm talking about the legends. And what you end up, what you end up thinking about is this idea that they win a lot. These goats win a lot. When you look at Hulk Hogan, he won a lot. Most of your memories of Hulk Hogan who are conquering the foe, whether it's Andre the Giant or the Canadian earthquake, Hulk Hogan is conquering. When you go and, and, and you look at, at, at even a, a Shawn Michaels, you think about the boyhood dream coming true. You think about all the matches that these people won.

[Megan Moran]

You think about the Undertaker and the Streak.

[Sam Roberts]

The Streak. You think about Roman Reigns and what put him in that goat category, holding the title for three and a half years. And how do you hold a title for three and a half years? You win, win, win, win. The thing about John Cena is, yeah, he's unique in the sense that somebody who has that goat status, that legendary status, he's lost a lot. And I think he's lost more matches than people even mention. He lost his first match to the Rock. He's lost matches to Brock Lesnar and I mean just multiple times, not just at Russell Palooza, but earlier in his career, you know, in absolute destructive fashion. But at the same time, sometimes he wins those matches too. And what is the story of John Cena that we get at Saturday night's main event? Is this the John Cena story that we've seen before where he just can't quite conquer the foe? Or is this the other John Cena that we've seen before where somehow he gets the big show up on his shoulders and can still drop him with that aa to say that just because Gunther says it's over? As a famous boxer once said, nothing's over. Okay, that's John Cena. What Rocky Balboa do we see walking in to Washington D.C. on Saturday night? John Cena might beat Gunther.

[Megan Moran]

He could.

[Sam Roberts]

So let's not sit there and say John Cena can't win. There's no title on the line, there's no ramifications, there's no reason to say and, and, and would there be, would there be any more reason to hoist that man up on shoulders than realizing that not only did he win, we get triumph at the end of John Cena, but he beat Gunther, the person that we were all so worried was going to win this thing that we walked in with a boo boo face?

[Megan Moran]

It's true. Everything you're pointing out is so true. But when Gunter says that he's going to make John Cena do Something he's never done before. And that's give up.

[Sam Roberts]

Wow. Yeah.

[Megan Moran]

And then when John Cena says. I mean, not when Gunter says about John Cena, that it doesn't matter that he's the greatest of all time, because Gunter is the best professional wrestler of all time.

[Sam Roberts]

He knew where he was going. He said, he's your. He said, John Cena is the best sports entertainer of all time. But like you just said, Gunther is the best professional wrestler of all time.

[Megan Moran]

It's so amazing because according to Gunther, this is such a massive weekend in the history of the business. This is not just one match. This is magnified times a thousand. This is Cena's final match in wwe. We spent the entire year on this retirement tour with John Cena. But to guter, when he steps in the ring in Kansas City and he talks on the mic, he's approaching this. Okay, Bring it on.

[Sam Roberts]

You know what it is for Gunther? Saturday.

[Megan Moran]

Saturday. Yes, It's Saturday. It's another day.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, that's it. Although he is. He is using those. Those psychological tricks. He is putting him down. He is. Boy, was that crowd. They were booing Gunther.

[Megan Moran]

Yeah.

[Sam Roberts]

And they were chanting, we want Cena. We. No, Cena sucks. Not one Cena sucks.

[Megan Moran]

He said, well, you're not going to get him.

[Sam Roberts]

He's not here. And I'm going to end him at Saturday night's main event. And you're right. He did say that he wants to make Cena give up. And everybody wants to think of different ways it could happen. Well, maybe he could pin him. No, he wants to make Cena give up. Well, maybe Cena's going to pass out. Well, no, he wants to make Cena give up.

[Megan Moran]

Yeah.

[Sam Roberts]

And we haven't seen. Seen a tap out in, like, 20 years.

[Megan Moran]

I know.

[Sam Roberts]

So the idea. But do you think that maybe he's. He's. Gunther pinning himself into a corner a little bit? Meaning that, like, usually, and this is interesting, usually Gunther, the story that he's telling in that ring is, however I can get the victory, I'm going to get the victory. He's got, like, whether it's a sleeper hold, whether it's a power bomb, whether it's what, you know, he's got multiple finishers, and it's whatever works in this moment to get the job done. This time, he's not going in to simply get the job done. And the job is the w. This time, the job is he wants to make John Cena give up, which feels a little bit more emotional than Gunther. Usually feels extremely.

[Megan Moran]

Yeah, feels extremely emotional.

It's not about just winning, it's about how Gunter is going to end John Cena.

[Sam Roberts]

Because I told you, he's the most no fun wrestler of all time. He wants to ruin it. He wants to ruin the thing. What have I told you? We can't have nice things. Why can't we have nice things?

[Megan Moran]

Because Gunter is the reality.

[Sam Roberts]

And because we're wrestling fans and we don't get nice things. And that's all we want. Look, I mean, there are so many of us and I don't know, man, maybe we spent too much time booing John Cena and now karma has come back to bite us. And karma is in the form of Gunther.

[Megan Moran]

Gunter likes that we don't get nice things. When the entire crowd is booing him, he gets that little smirk on his face.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, he wants to be the one to deliver the not nice things.

[Megan Moran]

Yeah, he takes great pleasure in it.

[Sam Roberts]

But listen, I think there have been a lot of surprises, a lot of twists and turns out on this John Cena retirement tour. And I think that there is a world where John Cena walks out a victor in his final match on Saturday night's main event. I don't think that that's out of the realm of possibility whatsoever. I can't imagine what that feeling is going to be like, though, because it's going to be this mixture of. Usually at a match like this, where we're all kind of gathered to see this moment, this last match in John Cena's career, the last time he puts on a pair of jorts.

We know, okay, like, this is going to be an emotional moment, but we know what the moment is to couple that emotional moment with. Also, I don't know how this match is going to go true. And I don't know if I'm going to like how this match is going to go. Is. It's a. It's a really. It's a complicated feeling.

[Megan Moran]

I think everybody right now is sort of preparing themselves for the worst, because you have to. Which is why I say to you, when you say, how do you feel about Gunter and John Cena? I say, I don't feel good because I'm preparing myself for that feeling of Guenther making John Cena quit. And I don't know if that's a protection mechanism or what it is. Maybe it's something I need to talk to my therapist about.

[Sam Roberts]

You talk to me.

[Megan Moran]

But, um, I think that's what a lot of people are doing right now when they look at this match of Gunter against John Cena because there is. They're protecting their feelings and because there's.

[Sam Roberts]

A large likelihood that that's exactly what you end up getting.

[Megan Moran]

Well, think about it. John Cena's final match is going to be emotional, no matter how you splice it up. And there's going to be this moment on Saturday night or Sunday morning when you reflect back and go, wow, it's actually over.

[Sam Roberts]

And it's been interesting. Like, as you've watched this tournament unfold, there's been so many little stories sprinkled in throughout the tournament. Right. Whether it's. It's J uso first, like ascending and then crashing out, whether it's LA Knight having to deal with two mystery opponents, whether it's solo SOA looking more dominant than he's looked in in quite a while. All these little things happening.

[Megan Moran]

But Javon Evans getting an opportunity in the tournament.

[Sam Roberts]

Absolutely.

[Megan Moran]

Ryder coming back, Nick Nth.

[Sam Roberts]

Dolph Ziggler coming back.

[Megan Moran]

Dolph Ziggler, yes.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah. No, I mean, that's what made it so exciting. But yeah, while all this is going on in the background, here's just Gunther doing his thing. Like, none of this affects me. I don't care about any of this. I'm just going in. And by the way, all of his matches have been competitive. All of his matches, he's been putting his all in. But it's like this whole other world doesn't exist outside. He's. Gunther's the only guy who he gets in the ring. And it's like, it's like a noise vacuum. Like everything that has existed outside of that squared circle no longer exists. Because now we're in Gunther's world where it's just like we're here and we're now. And I think on Saturday when you get in that ring with John Cena and Gunther, that's exactly what's going to happen. There's going to be a noise vacuum. The rest of the year won't matter. The tournament won't matter. Everything that came before, none of it. We're not going to be thinking about Cody and John at SummerSlam. We're not going to be thinking about CM Punk and John Cena. We're not going to be thinking about the Dominic Mysterio story that we just saw. We're not going to be thinking about the AJ Styles match. None of it. It's just going to be that moment and it's going to live in the present on its own until the moment is completed, whatever that looks like. It's going to be a wild, wild scene. And by the way, you can. You can celebrate it. You can be a part of it. The last time is now. John Cena's final match is happening this weekend at Saturday night's main event, and WWE Shop has you covered. Yes, you can get it all. Grab the full lineup of John Cena final match gear, including tees, hoodies, headwear, accessories, and more. You can get it all at WWE Shop. And fanatics, they got the socks, they got John Cena's final match koozies. They got everything you could possibly want. I can't wait to see it. Now, you got to get a shirt.

[Megan Moran]

Have to.

[Sam Roberts]

You got to get a shirt, right? And you got to make sure you get it for everybody on your wish list. For. For. Because it's the holiday season stocking stuffer. But listen, there's probably a lot of people on that wish list that already have all the John Cena stuff. So what do you do? Wow. You become the goat of the holiday season. That's what you do. And how do you do that? With aura frames? Yes. You gotta get an aura frame under the tree. This Christmas is how you spread holiday cheer. We can't possibly see everybody. I'm sure you don't see every single relative that you'd like to see. So here's what you do. You get an aura frame, right? And before you even give it to whoever you're giving it to, you can load it up with as many pictures and videos as you want to load it up with without ever taking it out of the box. Okay? So it comes already loaded. You can put your personalized message on it, okay. You don't even have to wrap it because it comes in this beautiful gift box with no price tag on it. So you just have it sent. You send it over, right? It's there, and they go, what's this? And they open it up and boom, there's your message.

[Big E]

Boom.

[Sam Roberts]

Pictures, videos, everything. Every memory that they weren't there for now, it's like they were there. If you are going to Washington, D.C. and you are going to see John Cena's final match, you take all your pictures. You take all your pictures. You get the aura frame. Your buddy didn't get to go. You load up the aura frame with the John Cena pictures. You put in the personalized message, hey, dude, sorry you weren't there, but now we can share this memory. And boom. It's all right there in the aura frame. And you Become the king. Unlimited free photos and videos because you know you can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it. Oh, yes. And that's what we do with Aura. For a limited time, you could save on the perfect gift by visiting aura frames.com to get $35 or off Aura's best selling carver mat frames named number one by wirecutter by using promo code RAW recap at checkout. That's auraframes.com promo code RAW RECAP. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. And I've got to tell you.

We saw the Masked Man. This. We didn't see the masked Man. We talked about this last week on the recap.

[Megan Moran]

Monday, right?

[Sam Roberts]

Last Monday.

[Megan Moran]

A lot of speculation. Did not see him last Monday. This, this Monday we saw him twice.

[Sam Roberts]

I know. It was like Adam Pierce was searching all over for the masked man last Monday. Everybody was like, I haven't seen him. Eddie was like, the referee.

[Megan Moran]

Yes.

[Sam Roberts]

He was like, I haven't seen him. Apparently Pierce was like, I'm going to look one week and one week only if I can't find.

[Megan Moran]

Well, he, I mean, he had a lot. There was lawyers coming after him and everything. So his plan plate was.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, but I saw, I saw on a vlog that a lot of that was very unsuccessful. Unfortunately.

[Megan Moran]

No, I saw that the lawyers are making a lot of progress.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, it seemed like every time Becky took a call, it was like, okay, that didn't work either. So now.

[Megan Moran]

Well, they were trying the easy way. So now they're going to have to do it the hard way. And it's not going to be pretty for Pierce and the rest of the. The corrupt individuals in wwe, which I think you may be a part of.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah. And I'm actually furious because if you think I don't know who, who came up with the name Scam Roberts that has unfortunately caught on like wildfire, you're dead wrong. I know who did it and I'm furious about it. And I'll just leave it at that.

[Megan Moran]

You're welcome. You're so welcome.

[Sam Roberts]

That's not what I was getting. I said I'm furious. Listen, I'm gonna come in here with a mask on and stomp you. That's what I'm. That's gonna be my plan. That's what I'm gonna do because of what you did. No, Becky lynch was not on Monday Night Raw. You Think her husband was.

[Megan Moran]

It could. It could have been.

[Sam Roberts]

But let me ask you this. Would he wear a mask if he was that hot of a husband? Probably not, right?

[Megan Moran]

I don't think it's Seth. You can't completely rule it out, but I do not think it's Seth.

[Sam Roberts]

Look at that stomp, though. Look at that stomp. Now, look, I love the fact that we've all become sort of body language experts trying to figure out all the movements of whoever this is under that mask again.

[Megan Moran]

And I mean, some pictures on the Internet, zooming in on the eyes.

I was like, whoa.

[Sam Roberts]

And this mask man is doing the Batman trick where, like, he's putting black paint around his eyes so there is, like, nothing to be revealed. He is trying to keep his identity absolutely secret, but he comes out. And after Bron Breaker and Bronson Reed get thrown away from ringside, and here comes that masked man to interfere in this match while the referee is getting the Bron Bronze out of here. Now, look, when it first happened in the beginning of the night, it happened when Logan Paul jumps Rey Mysterio. So Rey Mysterio and look, I mean, there's so much drama going on. Rey Mysterio and Logan Paul got into it last week on Raw, and Rey Mysterio slapped Logan Paul and Logan Paul told me he was broke. I've.

[Megan Moran]

Look, this was also when Rey Mysterio referred to his son as his bastard son, Dominic.

[Sam Roberts]

Same moment. Which again, a lot of questions about that. Maybe one day we get Ray on the Raw recap. He got to break down exactly where that comes from. I've seen the way Ray dresses. I know not believe that he's broke. No, I mean, it's crazy.

[Megan Moran]

I mean, if. If that's broke, I'd be totally fine being. Being Rey Mysterio. Broke.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If Ray's broke, I think I'm destitute. But, like, like, this is I. So I don't think that that's accurate. But still, tensions were there. So Logan Paul jumps Ray Mysterio before his match against Finn Balor. And Finn Balor's like, cool, dude. No problem here. And however, Ray ends up getting the best of Logan Paul until this masked man shows up.

Puts down Rey Mysterio, disappears. So what are we thinking is this masked man. Because last week Paul Heyman is going. I have no idea who the masked man is.

[Megan Moran]

Yes. And before Logan Paul jumped Rey Mysterio, we saw a backstage interaction with Bron Braun, Paul Heyman and Logan Paul, AKA the Vision, and Logan Paul And Paul Heyman stepped aside and he said, you're going to have backup for the first time in your career.

[Sam Roberts]

Right.

[Megan Moran]

And I was thinking initially, oh, he must mean Braun Braun.

[Sam Roberts]

Right.

[Megan Moran]

Is it at all possible that he was referring to the masked man, even though he knows nothing about it?

[Sam Roberts]

I mean, this Paul Heyman, he uses these words. It's like they're riddles. Everything he says, even as clear as he says it, it's still a riddle. It's still a mystery as to what he's actually saying. There's so much doublespeak speaking out of both sides of his mouth all the time. This Paul Heyman. But yeah, I think that. No, I think that that's part of it. Right. Because not only do we see the masked man show up and jump Rey Mysterio when Logan Paul is confronting him, but then we see the masked man again show up at the end of the night, where it's Logan Paul versus La Knight, which is a tremendous main event. And as the Bronson's are trying to interfere, the referee catches wind. He kicks him out. Here comes the masked man again. Unless it's KSI under there and he's just helping out Logan Paul everywhere he goes. Which, by the way, can you imagine how furious everybody would be if it was KSI?

[Megan Moran]

Livid, beyond.

[Sam Roberts]

I'd be so upset if it was KSI.

[Megan Moran]

What if it was Travis Scott?

[Sam Roberts]

Oh, come on. Don't even say don't you.

[Megan Moran]

You said KSI. So I just thought of what's worse than that.

[Sam Roberts]

I'm gonna have to sage this whole room based on that suggestion. So, no, I think.

I, I, I, I think you've got to sit there now and go, well, you can't tell me this is the third time, including war games, that Paul Heyman has no idea who the masked man is. It has to be an absurd premise now.

[Megan Moran]

Yes.

[Sam Roberts]

Right.

[Megan Moran]

Yes, absurd. And I think it's safe to say the masked man is not La Knight.

[Sam Roberts]

Why is that?

[Megan Moran]

Because La Knight got stomped by the masked man. Yes. Well, I initially told you that we saw La Knight interfere. Well, not interfere. Come out to save Rey Mysterio after the masked man, I said, oh, L.A. it's not the masked man.

[Sam Roberts]

You said, he could be. Of course he could. First of all, I don't, I have, I have a.

[Megan Moran]

Listen, who could the masked man be? La Knight. I'm scratching that one off.

[Sam Roberts]

Okay, but you could, I mean, I can definitely scratch that off because the masked man's boot was imprinted in the back of La Ratchet off. Meaning you're not exactly Colombo here.

[Megan Moran]

I'm just trying to find clues here.

[Sam Roberts]

I'm still wrapped up.

[Megan Moran]

Process Colombo. Process of elimination. Sam, he's a detective.

[Sam Roberts]

Colombo. Okay. Okay.

[Megan Moran]

Thank you.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, look, I mean, Colombo. No, I understand.

[Megan Moran]

Old reference. Colombo was really showing your age.

[Sam Roberts]

I'm. Well, I didn't. I wasn't. Anyway. Anyway, don't try to knock me off my game, ok?

[Megan Moran]

Keep going. Come on, you're doing great. Come on, keep going.

[Sam Roberts]

The world is full of tours.

But you don't choose a Toyota truck to follow the beaten path. You choose it to find the places in between.

[Big E]

The detours, where each adventure pulls you toward the next.

[Sam Roberts]

And wrong turns turn out right. So why would you ever take a tour when you could take a detour? Toyota trucks. Control, compliance, confidence.

[Megan Moran]

That's what the American Express corporate program helps deliver.

[Sam Roberts]

Customize rewards, centralize company spending, and count on world class customer care. With corporate cards from American Express, your company can be covered. Explore [e-mail] corporate terms apply. So who do we think? I want to know who the masked man isn't. Who could the masked man be? Is there a possibility that it's Seth Rollins?

[Megan Moran]

Yes, there's a possibility.

[Sam Roberts]

Seth Rollins was on the Rich Eisen show over the week and he said he doesn't have to wear a sling anymore for his shoulder and that he, he is on track for recovery.

[Megan Moran]

And by the way, I don't think a sling impacts your ability to stomp.

[Sam Roberts]

No, I guess it doesn't. But the Masman wasn't wearing a sling.

[Megan Moran]

That's, Neither is Seth Rollins.

[Sam Roberts]

But however, also, you know what he did last time he was on the Rich Eisen show?

[Megan Moran]

He lied about another injury.

[Sam Roberts]

He lied about his injury. So it's, it's like, what are we in a Boy who Cried Wolf scenario?

[Megan Moran]

If it's about, why would I have a lot of questions.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, ask him. Ask him.

[Megan Moran]

Why would Seth want to help Logan Paul in the vision?

[Sam Roberts]

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Because at first you would go, you know, maybe if it's war games and it's punk, then it's like, yes, like you want to help. You're not helping the vision. You're hurting punk. Because Seth hates punk so much.

[Megan Moran]

I mean, but now to help Logan.

[Sam Roberts]

Paul, I don't know why he's stomping Ray, but then La Knight said, if that's Seth Rollins, I'm going to whoop him or something to that effect. So maybe Seth was like if it is Seth Rollins, then he just threatened Seth Rollins. So now Seth is like, okay, I have to teach you a lesson. I don't know. I'm grasping at straws here, because that still doesn't explain. It's possible the Rey Mysterio attack. Right?

[Megan Moran]

It does not explain the Rey Mysterio attack.

[Sam Roberts]

And if you go, well, maybe this is a ruse by Seth Rollins, they go, okay, he is the type to ruse. You know, maybe this is a ruse by the Vision altogether. Okay, maybe. But then why is Bron Breaker getting the world title match at RAW on January 5?

[Megan Moran]

Could be men. Bron Breaker is the one who took Seth out.

[Sam Roberts]

Right, right, exactly. And I can't imagine Seth giving up that. That title match for January 5th. I can't imagine Seth giving up the title. So I don't. I don't know. I can't make sense of all of it, but I can't make sense of much when it comes to the. The. The Masked man and what the. The motivations are and why he's interfering in all these matches.

Not only another.

Great Braun Breaker promo on CM Punk where. I mean, this brawn is out of control. Braun Breaker says, where is CM Punk? He wants the old CM Punk. First of all, I want to know where CM Punk is physically, because there's a lot of damage being done. Yes, but he wants the old CM Punk, the one that broke all the rules. And I go, I love that. I love that idea. Then he says, if the old CM Punk doesn't show up, then not only am I gonna. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna take your title and I might take your wife. And I'm just like, why? Why do you have to be that personal? And even Paul Heymon is sitting there going like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then like, it's his personal mantra. He just keeps repeating spearhead, 1, 2, 3, spear 1, 2, 3. And the audience is not going to jump on board with that because the audience doesn't want Braun Breaker to beat CM Punk. They love. We love CM Punk hero. Of course, he's the voice of the voiceless, but I don't think that he's doing this to get the crowd involved. I think this is the mantra that Braun Breaker is living by. I think that there is a little voice in Bron Breaker's head that is existing from now until January 5, that from the time he wakes up in the morning to the time he goes to sleep at night, it's just repeating, spear 1, 2, 3, spear. 1, 2, 3. And he's just walking with that everywhere that he goes. Because much like we were talking about with Gunther, where it's like the stuff that he does in the ring is separate from everything else, with all this drama going on with the Vision, with LA Knight over here and Logan Paul over there and War Games and the Mask man and all this stuff, Every time Bron Breaker gets the opportunity to speak, it's only about January 5th and CM Punk.

[Megan Moran]

I truly believe that Bron Breakker looks at CM Punk as a fraud. He said that tonight in his promo. And I think, you know, there was a lot of chatter when CM Punk returned. Oh, it's great now, but what happens when CM Punk become CM Punk? And that hasn't happened. But I think Bron Breaker, based on his interactions with CM Punk, based on what he told us happened at WrestleMania when he said, we'll see if you can cut a promo with the big dog, I think Braun Breaker looks at Punk as a fraud.

[Sam Roberts]

But by the way, you can say, I want the old version of CM Punk back all you want. You know what the current version of CM Punk did? Won the World Heavyweight Championship.

[Megan Moran]

That's right.

[Sam Roberts]

Twice. Twice he won the World Heavyweight Championship. Let's not pretend that he didn't win it at SummerSlam as well. CM Punk won the World Heavyweight Championship twice. I don't think that it is incumbent upon CM Punk to go, oh, you know what I need to do now that I'm finally the World Heavyweight Champion, I'm going to change things. Why do you change things? If you're like, you think Tom Brady at some point goes, like in the middle of his run to goes, I needed to change the way I do things. No, you love all those rings, don't you? Keep getting rid that. You figured out the method of getting rings. If you're the World Heavyweight Champion, you don't fall into a trap like this. Oh, you don't let. Let it take you off your game. Who cares if you're, you know, rude to management or nice to management? You've got the World Heavyweight Championship.

[Megan Moran]

He didn't come here to make friends.

[Sam Roberts]

He came here to make money, win championships, and that's exactly what he's doing. Right? Right. So, I mean, I think. And. But then as. As Bron Breaker is talking, the rest of the Vision leaves because LA Knight's getting helped out, and Bron Breaker's like, I'm just. I'm going to hang out here because I want to talk about CM Punk some more. And then Logan Paul and Bron Breaker. I'm sorry, Bronson Reed, Logan Paul took.

[Megan Moran]

Out like four security guards.

[Sam Roberts]

He punched them in the face. Yeah, I saw it. Like, it wasn't even like a shove or like a, you know, you know. Rabble rabble.

[Big E]

Rabble.

[Megan Moran]

Rabble Rabble rabble. Is that what they say? Is that a technical term?

[Sam Roberts]

It's a technical term. It's a wrestling term. It's. It's a little bit of industry jargon. Rabble rabble rabble. Wasn't even a rabble rabble. Rabble.

[Megan Moran]

Call this one rabble rabble rabble.

[Sam Roberts]

And then they get into the rabble rabble rabble. And then. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. Use it amongst all your wrestling friends. You'll come across like a genius.

No, it was like right in front of the camera, punch to face, and it's like, geez, these security guards. So the security guards are getting taken out. La Knight doesn't have an ounce of quitting him. I think losing that tournament lit a fire under La Knight. I think he hears what people are saying. He is not a guy who's going to get knocked off his pedestal. He's aware how often he gets this close and doesn't quite get there. He's not going to let him roll back to the. To square one. It's not going to happen.

[Megan Moran]

He told us he's the unstoppable force.

[Sam Roberts]

Right? Right. Because you said it was Gunther, you.

[Megan Moran]

Got, you have to point fingers at me.

[Sam Roberts]

He said, that's wrong.

[Megan Moran]

That's a little gotcha journalism by you over there.

[Sam Roberts]

So he is still fighting back and fighting back and fighting back.

Until he ends up on the roof of a car. And the same thing that happened many moons ago to Seth Rollins happened to La Knight. He got Tsunami on the roof of a car, which I don't know whose car that was.

[Megan Moran]

Well, it's damaged now.

[Sam Roberts]

Hope there's insurance on it. I mean, but look at that. Look at the guy. I mean, this is the Bronson Reed. The guy the size of Bronson Reed doing what he's doing, and just the realization that I'm going to be sandwiched between an airborne Bronson Reed and the roof of a car. It's. It's one of the worst scenarios you could possibly imagine.

[Megan Moran]

And there's nothing he can do about it. He's completely trapped in that moment, helpless. And he was also, you know, just moments before this took a stomp on the table. Yeah, by the masked man.

[Sam Roberts]

He was described as a broken man, and that's who he was. And now he's even more broken after. After that massive tsunami on the car. So I don't know what the. What the future holds now, but now you got enemies in Punk, you have enemies in La Knight, you have enemies in Rey Mysterio, and that's literally just from this week.

[Megan Moran]

Who else?

[Sam Roberts]

That's just from this week. That's just from today. Those are the enemies they made. Ted A. They got enemies everywhere. But apparently, I mean, these numbers keep growing with the vision if that masked man keeps showing up. So, you know, they seem to have. I'll say this about the vision. I feel like they have more control over the situation that they're in now than they have since the beginning of. Of being formed. This is the most in control version of the vision that I've ever seen. And that's wild. That's really, really wild. Well, I don't know if this is one of those moments that you want to live forever. It's a man getting crushed on the top of a vehicle. But a lot of these moments, you want to live forever. And I know Saturday night's main event, we're going to feel that way. Luckily, we've got Tops Now. Tops now captures major milestones and viral moments from the biggest events that we've seen. The Incredible cards from WrestleMania, money in the bank, and even Wrestle Palooza. Ahead of Saturday night's main event, Cena's last match, Tops will be putting out a poster card commemorating the event, as they do for a lot of the ples. You'll be able to get your hands on that. We don't have the exact details yet. Usually collectors who buy these base cards have the chance to receive rainbow foil short prints that are limited to a, a a certain amount of copies. But we don't know what Tops now is going to do for this one. Maybe it's something special.

Just for Cena. Make sure you're following at Tops on Social and sign up for notifications on tops.com to make sure you don't miss out. I ordered my Live and Dom card from Tops now, hoping that I get the one of one dual signature. I mean, it's gonna be tough, but it pays to be in the mix. So we'll see. We'll see. Now, Megan, we have a guest on to help us unpack and analyze everything that happened tonight on Monday night Raw. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the Raw recap a former WWE champion, a former WWE Intercontinental Champion. A former WWE Tag Team Champion. Big E, welcome, Biggie.

[Big E]

Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Sam. I don't know if you're doing this for the reason that I thought of, but I think the last time I was on, you had a very lackluster outro for me. So I appreciate you putting more gusto on the intro. Well done. Very well done.

[Sam Roberts]

Oh, I know, I know. I did.

[Megan Moran]

See those hips swivel any.

[Big E]

You got to do it. That's it.

[Sam Roberts]

You were doing it.

[Big E]

Yeah, you can see. Yep, yep, that's right.

[Sam Roberts]

That's how you have to do it. And I know you're a man who appreciates pomp and circumstance both, so I wanted to make sure that. That you had both. E, I am so glad that we have you here to talk this week. Now, definitely gonna ask you about Cena and Gunther and the last match and Saturday night's main event, but I gotta ask you about a tag team that you have a deep and storied history with. Last week we saw Jay USO completely crash out. He dumped a hydration station. He wouldn't talk to Jackie. He was, he was, he was, he was upset about losing in the last time is now tournament to La Knight. And we've seen that a lot from Jay USO in the last two or three months where he's kind of flipping on and off. If things are going good, Jay is all sunshine and roses and yeets and everything. And when things are going not so good, there's a lot of pouting going on. There's a lot of, well, now my friends aren't my friends anymore. It seems like we have finally reached a solution. And something that I know I've as a fan been waiting for for a very long time, months now, is this announcement that Jey USO comes home. Big brother Jim sees what happened on Monday night, Raw gives him a call. And I believe the quote, cuz I'm, you know, you gotta, you gotta have some journalistic integrity here. The quote was, what we do in us. What we do in us was the question asked to Jay USO what we do in us. And Jay USO said, we got to get back to us. We got to block out the noise. And the tag team division is officially on notice. The USO's are back. E, what were your thoughts and an immediate response to seeing all that happen on Raw.

[Big E]

It was beautiful to see, you know, when you're talking about Jay and kind of the turmoil he's gone through lately, I think a bit of like a Diva receiver in the NFL. And these are guys like, if you don't have the right quarterback getting in the ball, he's going to be upset, he's going to throw things. But when he's paired with the right guy, he's happy. And there is something about being with his twin brother where you see like automatically I feel like the promos have more, they have more rhythm, they have more, they have more spark, they have more sting. It's like the way they bounce off of each other. And I don't know if it's just this twin connection they have. I don't know if it's being back in one of the greatest tag teams of all time, but whatever it is, this version of Jay USO I like a lot, man. I, I saw a Jay who had that killer instinct, who was ready to, the way he snapped a Kofi and woods, the way like he was ready for all of it. And I love seeing this version of Jay. And maybe just who knows, if Jay goes back to doing single stuff soon, maybe this is just what he needed to kind of get his head back, right, to get in that, that mindset. Because there's something about being next to Jimmy. And I'm telling you, like those two guys, when we got to see glimpses of it, them back to back, you know, together as a tandem again, it's like, it's like riding a bicycle. It's like they'd never left. And I'm excited for them to be back in the tag division. I think RAW has quietly such a phenomenal tag team division. We don't get to see them featured as much as I would love, but Dragon Lee and AJ Styles have been incredible together. War Machines, we haven't seen on RAW in quite some time, but those guys come back and they bring something different and unique to the tag team division. And now with the Usos back in play, man, this thing is really heating up. So I'm excited to see the USO's back. Obviously, you know, you talk about the storied history between the new day and the USO's. I don't know if we're going to a three way tag. I don't know if we're going to the USO's versus AJ Lee. I don't know who we're going to next, but I like it. Whatever it is, all three of those combinations, I like it.

[Sam Roberts]

I also, I'm so glad you brought up the promo thing and the kind of immediate connection that you sense because I felt the Exact same way. There was something about like, and it wasn't unfamiliar, it was who Jimmy is and who Jay is. But you realize that, like, sometimes the sum is greater than the parts. And you see like Jimmy and I think you can almost now. Well, not even almost. I think you can absolutely appreciate what Jimmy and Jay individually bring to that tag team far more now than you could before because we've gotten to know them so well, singularly. But when Jimmy started that promo by, by taking care of the storytelling, being witty, being quick, and then Jay comes in with that raw fury and emotion that he has been doing throughout. But that coupled with what Jimmy brought, it's like instantly you have this whole package back together again.

[Megan Moran]

And it was really perfect because when I saw when the music hit, right when Jay USO's music hit, I'm like, how is Jay even here after what happened last week? We just saw Jay USO crash out. He's in the audience, he's with his brother Jimmy. They're yeeting.

[Sam Roberts]

And I'm eating with babies. There's babies yeeting.

[Megan Moran]

I'm loving it because who doesn't love babies eating? Everybody does. But I have a lot of questions and it really felt like the two of them answered all of it. And I love seeing them together stronger than ever. Big brother Jim there to silence the doubts of Jey USO and man, what a dangerous they were. I mean, they are the greatest tag team of all time. Sorry, Biggie, but that's not that cool. Arguably the greatest tag team of all time.

[Sam Roberts]

Sorry, Biggie, but arguably you said they.

[Megan Moran]

Are, but I think they're even more dangerous now.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, listen. Oh yeah, I think what's great, what's, what's cool about them now, and this was something that I brought up when it was kind of, you know, a couple months ago when it was like they were kind of flirting with the idea of maybe the USO's are going to be back together and then they weren't. They were back together for a couple matches, but they weren't back. I think that there's something so interesting and I don't know that we've really seen it before, that a tag team that was so well known as a tag team splitting up, both having top level single stars careers and then almost coming back together as a super team. Like the way like, like two main event single stars come together and it's this super team, but it's still the same team that has all that team chemistry, that has all that tag team sensibilities as they did in the beginning. I think you talk about it being, you know, be them being better. I think this is really unique thing that you don't really see very often that now you have this team that not only knows what it is to hold the tag team championship over and over again, knows what it is To Main Event WrestleMania as a tag team, but also knows what it is to have success in the singles division. And for one of them, he knows what it means to win the World Heavyweight championship at a WrestleMania.

[Big E]

No, absolutely. And I also just think sometimes when you're doing the same thing, even if you're doing it at the highest level, I think it's very easy to kind of get in this monotony. I'm not saying the USO's ever got there as a tag team, but I feel like they're now able to bring in the years of experience as singles competitors. They have a different perspective. I also wonder if they appreciate each other even more, because I'm telling you, like, you know, when times were good with me, Kofi and Woods, it is such a stark difference. Now when you don't have your safety blanket around you, you don't have that comfort blanket of, oh, your guys are near. Even if you're in singles matches, just knowing when you come out to the ring, oh, my boy's there. He has my back. I know where he is. Just that comfort. And now when you're. You're just thrown into those deep waters, I think the experience of now, after all those years of. Of Jay being world champion, Jimmy getting to have his run as a single star as well, I think now they're coming back together with added experience. And to your point, I think, Sam, I think you're spot on. I do think it feels, in a weird way, it does feel like a super team coming together. It's like, oh, these guys have been killing it for. For. On smackdown, for. For Jimmy Jay's been on Raw doing all these amazing things. Now them coming back together, they feel even stronger than ever, which is kind of crazy to think for Megan, as you said, the greatest tag team of all time, or arguably what everyone wants to say, look, they're elite. They're one of the best to ever do it. Regardless of whether you want to put them one, two, or three, it doesn't matter. They truly are one of the greatest to ever do it. And I think now, with the experiences that they've been through as single stars coming together, I think it means even more for them now.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah, I would Agree. And I also think that there is something that they didn't get to experience as a team, where in my opinion, Peak Bloodline was right around WrestleMania 39, when Roman Reigns was on top of the world as a singles and the USO's were on top of the world as a tag team. I mean, it was just an unbelievable moment in wwe. It was an unbelievable moment for those three. And I think something happens when you have a run like the Bloodline did as just the ultimate villains for years, and you come out of that and you become the good guy, you become the fan favorite. To me, it almost feels like it's a victory lap. Like Roman spent so long being a villain and being the greatest villain that anybody could possibly see, that now it's only natural that he should get cheers in every arena that he walks into. It's only natural that he should get to feel what this thing is like, except with the fans by his side. And that's something that the USO's as a team never got to do. That's something Jay got to do, right? He broke out from the Bloodline and became the single star after the Bloodline disbanded. That's something Jimmy got to feel as a singles. But like all that tag team glory and the elevation of tag team wrestling in General that the Usos were responsible for during that bloodline run, they never got to see the other side of that coin.

[Megan Moran]

Didn't even think of that.

[Sam Roberts]

And I think that this is. Yeah, this is it. It's delayed. It's delayed gratification, but this is it for them, I think.

[Big E]

I think that's a phenomenal point. It's something I didn't consider either, Megan. And, you know, you can go even further back than that. I think of the. The USO's when we were feuding on Smackdown, circa what, 26, 2017. And then, you know, villainous, hated even before then, you know, they were good guys wearing the face paint, but weren't received that way. They were kind. A lot of people were kind of over it. It was too milquetoast, too happy, too bright, and people rejected it. Now they're able to fully come into themselves as a tag team, beloved by the fans against the new day, who should be booed out of every single building that they enter, and just an incredibly talented team in AJ Styles and Dragon Lee. So I love this positioning. I love where the USO's are at now. And. And I just think we're. Either way, regardless of what happens, I just think we're in store for some phenomenal matches because whether it's AJ and Dragon Lee, whether it's the new day, whether it's, you know, War Machine, War Raiders, Viking experience, the tag team of many, many names that I always try to remind myself of, whatever it is, it's going to be an incredible, incredible match.

[Sam Roberts]

I think you're right. And you can see the, the same exact thing for the women's division. You know, seeing all those singles matches tonight with whether it's EO and Kyrie, whether it's.

Lyra Valkyria, whether, you know, seeing all these teams kind of interacting and the fact that, that in that match with, with Roxanne Perez that live is by Roxanne's side because now all.

[Megan Moran]

All of a sudden about Liv Morgan. What a team player.

[Sam Roberts]

Selfless, selfless, selfless. Live Morgan once again. But you know what, here's the thing that people don't consider about Live Morgan. I know Biggie is going to agree with me on this is that Liv Morgan is very comfortable doing what's best for the group, letting Raquel go after the women's championship and she will go after the tag team championship because number one, it's still a prestigious championship and number two, ultimately Liv Morgan does have the greatest reward that anybody could have in the wwe, which is Dominic Mysterio.

[Big E]

And that. And that was what I was going to agree to. That's. That's the part you thought I was going to agree to?

[Sam Roberts]

I thought so.

[Big E]

No. Uh huh. Uh huh. I do agree with your depiction of Liv as someone who's very selfless. I will say I'm a bit surprised. I was a bit shocked to see Liv return and everything. Be copacetic, I thought for sure. Because my recollection is essentially Liv was out. Here comes Roxanne. It feels very much like, oh, our, our bedrock is out right now. We're just going to find someone else who's. Who's different. Not trying to fill live shoes, but in many ways here's, here's the live replacement. So I thought there would be some hell to pay, but I do think now, you know, it seems like there's been so many times along the way with the Judgment Day, it seems like there have been these fissures and these fractures that I thought were irreparable, but now it seems like they're on pretty solid footing. And seeing Raquel come out, take out Nikki and line up and say this title is mine. And also to see where the judgment, Judgment day is at. Where, where Liv is at where Roxanne is at. Like they Judgment day might have all the titles very, very soon. Like they have, they have absolutely been on fire lately. And I think live deciding to be a team player and not raising hell when she came back is a huge reason why, because I wouldn't blame her if she decided to blow this whole thing up. But I think her, her leadership, truly her leadership to say, you know what, I'm going to do what's best for this group, I think has allowed them all to shine.

[Megan Moran]

It was kind of shocking to me to see Raquel step up to Stephanie Vacair, though, especially because we know the relationship between Liv Morgan and Raquel Rodriguez with we saw last week live Morgan go up to Stephanie Vacair backstage. I just think, you know, girl to girl, girl code, your friends after the World Heavyweight Championship, maybe you shouldn't be. But I mean, it's not show friends, it is show business. But the judgment day is all a family. I was just surprised to see Raquel step up to Stephanie.

[Sam Roberts]

I think the person that was surprised to see Raquel step up was probably Nikki Bella. You talk about show business and no friends. Nikki Bella getting absolutely flattened before she was able to get in the ring. I didn't think that was very necessary at all.

[Big E]

Hey, but look, if, if, if Raquel is going to continue to grow, like we talked about it time and time again, what she's done this year, I think has been really incredible. I, I think for her, and not saying you can't grow in the tag team division, but I think this is such a great opportunity for her really to take that next step as a performer. Even if she does go back to the tag team division, I think being tested in a singles match against the best wrestlers in the world and Stephanie Vaccuer is definitely on that list of some of the best pure wrestlers, male or female, she's on that list. I think this is what she needs to truly grow. And maybe, look, maybe this might be the opportunity for her to win her first world title. But even in a losing effort, I would argue that if she does end up not winning the title, I think her deciding to go out in the singles realm to really test herself to see if she is truly of that ilk, one of the best in the world, if she belongs in the same category as those women, I think it's a great opportunity for her and I'm excited to see what she brings to the table because we, we've seen her do incredible work in this tag team. Now let's see what she can do against the best women in the world in the singles division.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, I'll tell you where all the best athletes in the world are going this summer. And that's the world's number one sports fan festival, Fanatics Fest. Yes. Big news for WWE and sports fans. Fanatics Fest is making its return to New York City. I cannot wait. Fanatics is bringing you closer to the league's team Superstars and athletes that you love across four four Megan action packed days in July. Meet your favorite WWE Superstars, get your hands on exclusive merch Catch live podcasts. We love those and interact with with the biggest names in sports. Tickets are on sale now and Raw Recap fans can get a 10% discount by using RAW RECAP 10 at checkout. That promo code is RAW RECAP 10. Now you talk about events that everybody is going to need to be tuned into. Saturday night's main event, what may be, and I think it will be the biggest Saturday night's main event of all time because it includes the final match of John Cena. Now real quick, before we get to that final match, I would love to hear your thoughts on, on the NXT WWE match exhibition matches that we're going to see. First announced tonight is the tag team match. You just talked about this tag team. AJ Lee is what you referred to them a moment ago. AJ Styles and Dragon Lee will be facing Javon Evans who won the Iron Survivor Challenge and Leon Slater from tna, by the way, which is a big look for Leon Slater and for tna. I think when you have a discussion with anybody who as they say, knows Ball, they will tell you that Javon Evans and Leon Slater are undeniably the future of the industry. What do you make of, of, of this tag match, Biggie?

[Big E]

Man, I got, I got chills when I saw this get announced. I actually had an opportunity to talk to my good friend Tom Hannifin, who, play by play, man for tna and he speaks the world of Leon Slater to see how young he is, how composed he is and, and I have been vocal about my Javon Evans fandom. This dude is like someone we talk about. Oh, he's the future. No, he's, he's the. Right now, he's the future as well. These two together, so athletic, so dynamic, so creative. What an incredible tandem. And then to see them in the ring with two of the best wrestlers in the world. A, an absolute living legend in AJ Styles and Dragon Lee. Man, this match I, there's gonna be this, this, this whole card is going to be incredible. And, and one, let's, let's give Cena a lot of credit for. I, I saw a lot of things online about him talking about this very easily could have been. And it was laid out to him like, let's have this whole two hour event be about you and about your retirement and nothing else. Let's make a, just a tribute to you. But Cena said, no, let's make this a tribute to the next generation. Coming up, let's, let's showcase some young stars, some NXT talent. And I love it. It is such a great showcase for someone like Javon and like Leon. This match is going to be a barn. I am circling it. I will be seated for this one. I can't wait.

[Megan Moran]

This is so fun because, you know, we all watch NXT every week.

[Sam Roberts]

Yeah.

[Megan Moran]

And we're all familiar with Leon Slater, what he's done in nxt, but there's a lot of fans who just watch Saturday night's main event, just watch raw, just watch smackdown, aren't familiar with tna. So for Javon and Leon to have this platform in front of the entire world when they're watching, I think a lot of people are going to be paying attention to Saturday night main event and they're going to be introduced to, you know, some big stars and I'm excited for them to experience both Javon Evans and Leon Slater.

[Sam Roberts]

Well, one that I know that you're excited for because we've talked about it, is the match that was announced on Friday, Bailey versus Sol Ruka. I mean, you talk about an opportunity and I believe it's also an opportunity for Bailey. I think that Bailey has the opportunity to remind people who she is. And Sol Ruka, I mean, this is somebody who went from like, oh, you gotta see this girl's move to oh my God, you have to see this performer relatively quickly. Yes, I would say. But she's become a superstar. And I think to your point, Megan, a lot of people are gonna get exposed to that.

[Megan Moran]

I mean, we're, we've all loved the Soul Snatcher from the very beginning and it was one of those things. The first time she ever hit it, you were like, wait, rewind the tv. I need to see that move again. But the Soul Snatcher was the first thing you used to talk about when you talked about Sol Ruka. Now there's so much more to Soul Ruka and really just watching what she's been able to do with Zaria and then on her own and NXT this year, I think it's just been such a year of growth for Soul. So now to have the opportunity to go in the ring against one of the four horsewomen in Bailey, I think Sam, you said this on, on your podcast, but maybe this could have a little hint of Brooklyn. Sasha Banks and Bailey maybe Standard, right? I don't know. I don't want to put the cart before the horse. Sam Roberts, but the people have their eyes on Sol Ruka and Bailey and absolutely they should.

[Big E]

They really should. And I also think this is such a great contrast of styles as well. You think of Bailey, who is such a technician, who is more ground based, although she'll hit that elbow, she'll come off the top with that elbow now. But Soul being such a dynamic performer, her athleticism, I believe she was a gymnast at the University of Oregon and it shows in the way she moves and the way she carries herself. I am, I've been a huge Soul fan for quite some time. I am so glad she's going to be introduced to this new audience. And I also love like Bailey has been. I'm sure you guys have seen all the Lodestone posts, all the things that she has done in her free time to really just help mentor the next generation of women. And she hasn't just started. She's been doing this for years and years. So this just feels like such a great opportunity for someone who is so invested in the future of the women's locker room and women's wrestling as a whole. Man, this match is going to be incredible. Let's not worry about comparing it to other phenomenal matches. Let this match just be what it is. But man, this, this match is going to be incredible as well. Soul is so athletic, so dynamic against Bailey being more grounded, the veteran a, a a truly great match as well.

[Sam Roberts]

The one that I am, I think, looking forward to most out of these three. And the one that I think is really going to get people talking is the one that I also think people didn't see coming. I think a lot of people thought Cody vs. Ricky Saints was the direction it's going to go in, but it's not because the Ruler took the NXT Championship and on Saturday night's main event, Oba Femi is going to be walking to the ring with the NXT Championship, owning his moment against the top guy in the wwe. E I saw you tweeting about Oba. What do you think happens when the WWE Universe and I'm going to say I think a lot of people who maybe even haven't watched WWE in a long time, but know this is John Cena's last match. Get their eyes on Oba Femi in a context like this where he's in a, in the ma. In a match with the biggest star in the industry.

[Big E]

It, it is hard to pick against World champion Cody Rhodes when he's matched up against someone who is not a mainstay on the main roster. But if anyone can do it, I'm telling you, it is Obafemi. This man, this, this is my guy. This is my guy. Future WrestleMania main eventer and not too long from now either. And quick aside, I feel like there are a lot of people who I've heard some scuttlebutt about, like, okay, let's, let's wait another 10, 15 years for these guys. No, I want to see a guy, I don't want. Oba's in his 20s now. Let's capitalize. And you talk about capitalizing him getting this opportunity, being in a match on Saturday night's main event against Cody Rhods in this spot. I, I don't know what happens, but I'm telling Cody Rhodes, get your ice bath ready, get in gorilla, because Oba is going to thump you time and time again. This dude is such a perfect blend of athleticism. The way he, he doesn't move for a guy his size, the way he moves. He is light on his feet, he is creative in his offense, he is brutal, he is physical. He is everything you want out of a big man. He is an incredible pro wrestler. And for a guy to still, what, only be in his mid-20s and he still has so much more room to go, but he is already ready. I, I too thought, especially thinking about, you know, the friendship that has been well documented between Ricky Saints and Cody Rhodes. I thought, oh, that'd be a great story as well. But getting to see Oba become NXT champion once again and get this opportunity, just know, fans, you are in for a treat if you have not seen Obafemi in the ring before. Sit down, get ready, have everything you need right there. Don't walk away for a second, don't blink because this man is the truth. I am telling you, he is it.

[Sam Roberts]

I couldn't agree more. Just wait till you see those quads. Wait till you turn on Peacock. Can you see those quads for yourself?

[Megan Moran]

You know, so undeniable ever since on our TV screens. I don't know why Saturday night's main event would be any different.

[Sam Roberts]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. E Megan and I at the top of the show talked about how we were feeling going into this, not only the final match, but the final match that is now a very controversial final match against Gunther with, I think. And I think a lot of energy going into this is fans dreading the idea that we don't get the happy ending. What do you think of the fact that not only are you walking in to watch John Cena wrestle his last match, a guy you know very well, John Cena against, of all people, Gunther, and a Gunther that is calling his shot, that is Babe Ruth pointing to where he's going to hit the ball and saying, I'm going to make him give up. I'm going to make him tap out.

[Big E]

Well, I have to give Rosenberg some. Some credit for bringing up this point. We were texting earlier during Raw, and he mentioned the fact that Gunther retired Goldberg, and now he's in a very similar spot on Saturday night's main event. Once again, to be in that position and. And when this man speaks, when he had that opening promo, talking about what he was going to do to John Cena, I believe every single word he says. And I. Look, a lot of us wanted to see. Would love to see something like a. A match with CM Punk. Maybe they saved the CM Punk match for here, where you see two guys, a lot of history. Maybe they kind of. I'm not saying take it easy on each other, but it is a friendly exhibition. I'm telling you right now, this will not be any of that. It will not be friendly. It will not be an exhibition. Gunther is here to make a statement. He knows how many eyes are going to be on this match. It is a perfect showcase for him. I'm not sure, besides WrestleMania, if there will ever be more eyes on a Gunther match, at least up to this point in his career. This thing is going to be replayed over and over and over again. John Cena, a man that we have rightfully dubbed the greatest of all time, is going to be in the ring with Gunther. And I. I think Gunther has a. A massive point that he wants to prove. He's already done this many times to many different people. But to do it against John Cena, to make that statement, that make. To make that statement, to leave that legacy that he will always have. We will reference John Cena's career and the way it ended 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now, when Gunther is an old man, you know, living up on the beach in retirement, people will still reference this match. That's how much it means. And he is someone who is fully aware of the opportunity. He is fully aware of the showcase. And he knows what that means. Not just winning, winning. Like he said, winning will not be enough for Gunther. And I. And I love it, as sadistic as it is, the fact that he is leaning into John Cena's catchphrase of never giving up. And he said, you know what? When you go out the very last time, all those kids, the adults who used to be kids that rooted for you, that wore the bright Cena shirts and the armbands and the hats, all the ones that had the never give up, you know, emblazoned across their chest, the last time they ever see you is going to be when you give up that boy. That is a statement. That is a statement.

[Sam Roberts]

That's a hard, jagged pill to swallow. I mean, that is, especially when you say it like that, the reality that comes crashing down. But look, I mean, you bring up the Goldberg thing, retiring Goldberg, all due respect to all parties.

Retiring Goldberg and retiring John Cena are not even remotely equivalent. Like, there's like, retiring Goldberg's a big deal, but retiring John Cena is a completely different beast. When Gunther is an old man, if he's not in this match, then people go, oh, yeah, he had a great run with the intercontinental title. He's a two time world heavyweight champion. Hell yeah. He retired Goldberg. He did like you said, if he is able to do what he's promising that he's going to do, you could see that guy when he's 70 years old, that's the guy that retired John Cena. And then let me tell you what else.

[Megan Moran]

That's the first thing on the resume.

[Sam Roberts]

That it is so different. And I'll tell you what else. If he retires Goldberg and John Cena in the same calendar year, first of all, that will never be repeated because nobody will ever have the opportunity to do anything close to that ever again. But also, any wrestler that is looking at WWE going, you know what? I'd like to have one last run. I'd like to have maybe a nice retirement run for myself. They're like, no, I'm not doing it. I know what, I know what happens at the end of this. I know where this goes, and I'm not doing it.

[Big E]

They should. And look, AJ's already. AJ's talked about next year, anything. He should stop. Yeah, let's just, let's stop conversations. Let's just, just tell us when it's over and wrap it up. Because this man is a marauder. Gunther is Truly, he is a moving train get off the tracks. But man, this is also just. Let's talk about for a second the fact this is the last time we see John Cena. And whether he gets pummeled or not, it's, man, it's, it's the, the end of an era. It truly is.

[Megan Moran]

Truly.

[Sam Roberts]

It's going to be emotional, man. It's going to be really, really emotional. I can't wait to see it. But I don't want to see it.

[Megan Moran]

I know.

[Sam Roberts]

I don't want it to be. I can't wait to get there and then I don't want it to ever end. And that's why Gunther is kind of the perfect person to make sure that it does. We will be out there in Washington, dc. I know E. You will be there too. We will all be together on the Countdown show. You will be on the Post show. After the show we will be doing the Saturday night's main event recap podcast. The first podcast after John Cena is retired. Just crazy. Make sure you subscribe across all the podcast feeds so you get the podcast right after Saturday night's main event. E. Thank you so much. We will see you guys after Saturday night's main event. Have a good one.

[Megan Moran]

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