Ep 415 - How Tall is that Ship? Journey Books + Madeleine Roux!

Summary

Reading Glasses Podcast: Episode 415 Summary
Title: How Tall is that Ship? Journey Books + Madeleine Rue!
Release Date: June 12, 2025
Hosts: Brea Grant and Mallory O’Meara

---

Introduction to Journey Books

In this episode of Reading Glasses, hosts Brea Grant and Mallory O’Meara delve into the captivating theme of journey books—stories that center around characters embarking on significant journeys, both physical and emotional. This episode not only features recommended reads but also includes an insightful interview with guest author Madeleine Rue, who discusses her latest work.

---

Current Reads

Brea Grant's Current Book:
Brea shares her recent read, Clean by Aaliyah Trabuco Zaran, translated by Sophie Hughes. She describes it as a compelling narrative about a young woman who transitions from the countryside to city life as a housemaid. The story unfolds as a mystery, revealing deep insights into the protagonist's experiences and treatment within a wealthy family.

"She has a real interesting insight into the world and just told in this really beautiful first-person perspective."
— Brea Grant [01:42]

Mallory O'Meara's Current Book:
Mallory is engrossed in A Letter from the Lonesome Shore by Sylvie Cathall, the sequel to Letter to the Luminous Deep. She praises its asexual representation and the romantic yet cozy relationship between a marine biologist and a scholar in a submerged future world.

"It's romanticized. It's like the sweetest, most magical, dark academia, cozy."
— Mallory O’Meara [02:48]

---

Book Recommendations: Characters on a Journey

Brea Grant’s Recommendations:

1. Migrations by Charlotte McConaughey
   Brea highlights this near-future thriller about a woman tracking migrating terns amidst ecological decline. The protagonist's journey on a fishing ship reveals both environmental struggles and personal emotional turmoil.

   "It's sort of a howdunit. Who done it?"
   — Brea Grant [01:40]

2. I'm Starting to Worry about this Black Box of Doom by Jason
   A personal favorite, this novel follows an Uber driver tasked with transporting a mysterious black box without knowing its contents, exploring themes of misunderstanding and the impact of the internet on personal connections.

3. Survivor Song by Paul Tremblay
   A post-apocalyptic tale where a pregnant woman races against a virus reminiscent of rabies, blending personal drama with survival instincts.

   "I love this type of plot. It's the epitome of a personal story set against something big happening."
   — Brea Grant [23:28]

Mallory O’Meara’s Recommendations:

1. Marrow Thieves by Cherie Dimaline
   A young adult post-apocalyptic novel where indigenous people are hunted for their bone marrow to restore the ability to dream, blending survival drama with speculative fiction.

2. The Cautious Traveler's Guide to the Wastelands by Sarah Brooks
   An 1800s historical fantasy about a train journey through a magical and perilous Siberian landscape, featuring multiple protagonists with secrets and agendas.

   "It's such a great amalgamation of fantasy, sci-fi, horror, and history."
   — Mallory O’Meara [16:53]

3. Pieces by Helen Oyeyemi
   A surreal journey of a newlywed couple on a magical train honeymoon, exploring themes of relationship dynamics and isolation in a hauntingly beautiful setting.

   "It's very queer as well. Just a banger all around."
   — Mallory O’Meara [24:37]

---

Listener Feedback and Community Stories

Libby Account Troubles:
Listeners shared their experiences and tips regarding managing Libby accounts, especially in situations involving unwanted access. Brea and Mallory provided practical advice and shared a humorous anecdote about acquiring special library cards with a unique design.

"You can block someone on Spotify."
— Mallory O’Meara [05:42]

Library Book Signings:
Allison, a librarian, recounted a story about a patron who attended a David Sedaris tour, had a library book signed, and returned it, emphasizing the joy and community spirit in such interactions.

"So I say get the library book signed. Having the author dedicated to the library will help reduce the chance of the book being stolen."
— Bria Grant [07:30]

---

Interview with Madeleine Rue: Exploring A Girl Walks into the Forest

Guest author Madeleine Rue returns to discuss her new book, A Girl Walks into the Forest. The conversation delves into the book's dark fairy tale elements, character development, and its critique of traditional fairy tales.

Book Overview and Themes:

Madeleine describes her book as a dark fairy tale that challenges traditional narratives by presenting a protagonist who confronts both personal and societal challenges.

"It's a dark fairy tale journey story in every sense."
— Madeleine Rue [33:00]

Inspirations and Influences:

She draws inspiration from Angela Carter’s The Bloody Chamber and integrates elements from various folklore, particularly Baba Yaga, to create a nuanced character who embodies both nature and monstrosity.

"There's an element of Bluebeard in this, alongside the Baba Yaga stuff."
— Madeleine Rue [48:00]

Character Development:

Madeleine emphasizes the protagonist's transformation from seeking validation based on beauty to embracing her own power and identity, highlighting themes of liberation and self-discovery.

"She has to pick a side and by being exposed, she wakes up to the evil of these people."
— Madeleine Rue [44:06]

---

Solving a Reader’s Problem: Navigating Triggering Content

A listener named Abraham shared his struggle with triggering content in V.E. Schwab’s books, leading to panic attacks and anxiety. Brea and Mallory addressed his concerns with empathy, emphasizing the importance of following professional mental health advice.

Response Highlights:

• Acknowledgment of the listener's feelings and the seriousness of his experience.
• Encouragement to prioritize mental health and adhere to therapist guidance.
• Reassurance that books remain available and can be approached at a safer time.
• Suggestions to explore other forms of art if reading becomes overwhelming.

"We cannot help you with your brain. You never push through a mental health crisis just to read a certain book."
— Mallory O’Meara [56:18]

---

Conclusion

Episode 415 of Reading Glasses offers a rich exploration of journey-themed books, insightful author interviews, and a compassionate response to listener challenges. Brea Grant and Mallory O’Meara continue to provide valuable content for book lovers, fostering a supportive and engaging literary community.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "Who done it?" — Brea Grant [01:40]
• "It's romanticized. It's like the sweetest, most magical, dark academia, cozy." — Mallory O’Meara [02:48]
• "We cannot help you with your brain." — Mallory O’Meara [56:18]

---

For more details, book recommendations, and to join the Reading Glasses community, visit Reading Glasses Podcast or follow them on Instagram at @ReadingGlassesPodcast.

Transcript

[Bria Grant]

Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You're listening to Reading Glasses, a show about book culture and literary life designed to help you read better. I'm author and book devourer, Mallory o' Meara.

[Bria Grant]

And I'm Bria Grant, filmmaker and e reader. This episode, we're recommending books about people on journeys.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Special baby, something I love.

[Bria Grant]

I love. I love a person on a journey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You love a person?

[Bria Grant]

I love it. Plus, we interview friend of the show, Madeline Rue about her new book, which is so good. I haven't read it yet, but I'm very excited. And we give advice on being triggered by books.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But first, Bria, what are you reading?

[Bria Grant]

I am reading. I just finished a book called Clean by Aaliyah Trabuco Zaran. It is translated by Sophie Hughes. It is a book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, a Bria Grant translated book.

[Bria Grant]

I do like a translated book. It's about a young woman who is born in the countryside, but she goes and moves to the city to be a housemaid, essentially. Right. So she.

[Mallory O'Meara]

A lot of books like this.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Working.

[Bria Grant]

A lot of books about working for rich families.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Service jobs. Working for rich families.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. But she. So she moves in, she helps raise this child. You know, it goes into all the details, like about her uniform and then about how she's obviously treated where she's not one of the family at all. But what the book really is is that it's sort of a howdunit. Who done it? Because it opens with and content warnings here. It's all told from her perspective and it opens with her in what you kind of come to figure out is probably some sort of holding cell. And she's saying what she says, I know you're here. You want to know how the girl drowned.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, my God.

[Bria Grant]

That's the opening of the book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Ah.

[Bria Grant]

So the whole time she's leading to this story of how the girl drowned. Holy little girl of the family. And. And you get to see the full story and she doesn't hold back on anything. And it's really great. And she has a real interesting insight into the world and just told in this really beautiful first person perspective. So for people who like epistolary books, but also just really good first person books, it was such a good read. I love this book. It could be one of my favorite books of the year. It was amazing. Whoa. Incredible.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Also, Bria, before I tell you what I'm reading, I have to say, you know how I normally put the word book in for every word? I accidentally did the opposite where I called something a Bria I went to go. I. I don't even remember who I was talking to. I think I was with hwb, but I went to go, like, grab a book or. I'm gonna put this Bria down. What am I doing? I'm so tired.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, no. All right, well, what are you reading, Mallory?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I am reading a book that has been one of my most anticipated of the year. It's so amazing. I'm so excited about it. It is the sequel. The fine saying, the final book in a duology sounds so weird because it's just two books.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But it is a Letter from the Lonesome Shore by Sylvie Cathall. The second sunken Archive book, the sequel to Letter to the Luminous Deep. Oh, my God, it's so great, Great book to read in June for Pride Month because there's a lot of like, both characters are asexual, so it's like a lot of great asexual representation. I mean, I don't want to. And if I say anything, it's going to spoil the first book, but it is so great. Please read the first book. It's amazing. I texted you yesterday because I was like, why have we been calling it romantic Sci fi? I'm dumb. Why don't we just call it Romanticize?

[Bria Grant]

Romanticize.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it is romanticized. It is like the sweetest, most. It's like magical, dark, academia, cozy. Romanticize. It's so lovely about this, like, relationship between the. This woman who is a. Who is a recluse but very passionate about marine biology and this scholar. And they strike up this relationship, but they disappear and their family members, her sister and his brother are like, become friends trying to find them. And it's this kind of far future world where everybody lives underwater. And it is so sweet and so cozy and it's like you love these characters and you love this world so much and you just don't want it to end. I cannot wait for what Sylvia Cathral writes next. And I love it so much. So I am reading A Letter from the Lonesome Shore by Sylvia Cathral.

[Bria Grant]

And I am reading Clean by Aaliyah Trabuco Zaran Translated by Sophie Hughes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Do you want to take a moment to share some listener feedback? Abby wrote in to say hi, Mallory and Bria. I'm currently listening to the May 22 episode and had to write in about Leila's letter about her Libby account. That is a word to salad Lea.

[Bria Grant]

Letter about Libby Libby account. What is this? What did. What did Leila write in about?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Leila wanted to get her ex off of her.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, get her off her Libby account. Yeah, I remember.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Also, shout out to all the people who wrote it about blocking somebody on Spotify. Cuz I did that and it's great.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So thank you for listeners.

[Bria Grant]

You can block one person on Spotify.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You can block anybody. But yeah, you can block someone on Spotify.

[Bria Grant]

Nice.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Glassers. But anyway, Abby said you weren't sure if Leila would lose her tags if she changed her library card, and I can confirm that she would not. Holds and loans are linked to a certain card number, but tags are just on the account. I know because I originally signed up for an electronic library card during lockdown and then didn't realize when I went to my local branch and got a physical card that it was not the same card number. Earlier this year, my electronic card expired and I finally linked my actual physical card number to my Libby account. I used it as an opportunity to clear my holds list and reset anything I still wanted on the new card. I had a longer wait, but it gave me a chance to finally get through some of my physical tbr. My tags are all still there, including everything I have marked to notify if my library buys it.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, hold on. We got a.

[Bria Grant]

That's great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

A hot, hot Libby tip.

[Bria Grant]

Layla, you're gonna be okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. And Abby says, love the show so much. I look forward to it every week. Thank you, Abby.

[Bria Grant]

That's great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is the. This is the glasser on the ground info that we need.

[Bria Grant]

Julia wrote in and said, hey, Brian. Mallory. I'm writing response to the glasser who's worried about her ex accessing her Libby account. Are all these responses about the Libby account? That's amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Not all of them, but I. I do love that the glassers have risen up to help Layla.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, to get that X off the account. A few years ago, the state of Minnesota was choosing a new flag and a popular design was one of a loon shooting lasers out of its eyes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, yes, loon, like the bird. Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. St. Paul is also the home to the stadium of a Minnesota United FC. Go Loons. So the St. Paul Public Library ended up releasing a limited edition library card featuring a laser loom design. My partner and I really wanted the new card, so we went to the library to ask. We said we'd be okay with just the stickers you could put on your existing card, but the librarian said she could tell we really wanted the cars, even though she didn't understand the hype.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wait, so if Layla wanted a Libby account or a new Libby account to get a laser loom.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mallory O'Meara]

She could write in a letter. Sorry.

[Bria Grant]

So she ended up issuing us new cards with the loon design.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Amazing.

[Bria Grant]

Loons with lasers on library cards.

[Mallory O'Meara]

On Libby. Library cards.

[Bria Grant]

Library cards.

[Mallory O'Meara]

That's really loving it.

[Bria Grant]

That's amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

The hot tip part, it turns out changing the card number was no more complicated than changing a password. All of our history tags, loans, and holds stuck with us. Only the library card number changed. I hope you enjoyed this little laser and loon library story in solidarity with the glasser getting their Libby app out of the hands of their ex. Love you both in this community so damn much. I love this.

[Bria Grant]

Very cute.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Amazing. Then Allison wrote in to say, hi, Mallory and Bria, librarian here. And I wanted to chime in regarding the glass door. Who was asking about getting a library book signed? Oh, yeah, we could get a lot of feedback about this. This. At one of the libraries I worked at, we had a patron call us and let us know they had attended a David Sedaris tour. And the patron brought a library copy of one of his books and got it signed and then returned the book to us. We all loved it at the library.

[Bria Grant]

So the patron just called and said, I did this.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is such a classic thing.

[Bria Grant]

Not. Not for permission.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. Such a glasses thing to do. Be like, I did this.

[Bria Grant]

I did it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Okay.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So Allison says. So I say get the library book signed. Having the author dedicated to the library will help reduce the chance of the book being stolen from the library. This is a potential issue with signed books, especially if it is a popular author. And let your library know it is signed. They'll probably think it's really cool. Thank you both for all you do on the show. It is always a highlight of my week, and I've gotten so many amazing reading tips and tricks. Bria, you want to read Allison's wheelhouse?

[Bria Grant]

Yes. Magical realism, books about books, haunted houses, story within a story, footnotes, folklore, Egyptology and archaeology. Shipwrecks and tall ships.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Amazing.

[Bria Grant]

Tall ships. That's really funny. Yeah, yeah, it's a.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, it's a bit. I mean, it's different than, like, a short ship. Get these short trips out of here. How tall is that ship?

[Bria Grant]

You're on a dating app and you're like.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like the ship version. You set it to over a certain amount of feet. Only got to be 30ft tall, Bria. No.

[Bria Grant]

30Ft tall, or else I am not interested in this book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

What is this, a short ship book? This is.

[Bria Grant]

I'm sorry, tugboats. Get out of here. Get out of here. Canoe. I literally just named the two kinds of ships.

[C]

I know.

[Bria Grant]

And canoe is not even a ship, is it?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, it's.

[Bria Grant]

Those are both boats.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Ship is different than a boat, though.

[Bria Grant]

Why?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think a ship is more complicated.

[Bria Grant]

Write in, let us know there is more complicated. I can't imagine that that is the.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hold on.

[Bria Grant]

And who decides what's complicated? Like to a shipmaster. It's not.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hold on, Captain.

[Bria Grant]

A shipmaster. That's the name of that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

A boat is a vessel for transport by water.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, obviously vessel for transport by water.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Okay. But a ship. Well, then I have to scroll past the AI slop at the top of every search engine. Now, the word ship isn't commonly applied to smaller craft.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, so it's more complicated. Large.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bigger.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, it's tall.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. A ship is typically reserved to a large ocean faring vessel propelled by multiple sails or engines. More complicated.

[Bria Grant]

More complicated.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I wasn't totally wrong.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Anyway, this is great. You can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com. if you want a list of all the books we talk about on the show deliver to your inbox every month, you can sign up for our newsletter. This link in the show notes. Before we talk about books, about journeys, we're going to take a quick break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by Pear Eyewear. Folks, it's summer reading time. It is the greatest time of reading of the whole year. I think we've all just. Even if you've been out of school for many decades, there's still that feeling of like it's summertime and when you're an adult, you're like, my life has not changed at all, except I'm wearing less clothes. But there is a feeling of, of excitement. And summer reading. There's so many of us have memories of like spending the whole summer just reading books. And you know what a lot of us need to do our summer reading? Bria Glasses.

[Bria Grant]

That's right.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You know who can help you get some glasses? Pair eyewear and do so affordably.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, no matter what you're reading, Pair Eyewear has budget friendly shapes and styles that don't compromise style or quality. And when the plot heats up, Pair Sun Tops and their new tinted lens tops collections complement any look. Base frames start at just $60, including your prescription. Top frames start at just 25 bucks and you can save with pre tax FSA and HSA dollars.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Folks, we love pear. We both have pear glasses. I. I have a. So many tops for my pair. I have. I. I've talked about my Washington Capitals, NHL glasses, but I have the sun tops. I have skull ones that are supposed to be for Halloween, but I wear them all year long because I love being spooky. I have so many. They're so cute. I love changing them out. They're so. The way that these work is they, like. They're little top frames that, like, just pop onto the.

[Bria Grant]

They make a little satisfying click.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, they really. They really do. And they just pop onto the front of the frame, and then you can. They're very light. Like, they come with their own little carrying case. I mean, you could switch these out every hour of the day if you needed to. And, Bria, tell us about the brand collaborations they have, because the.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

The brand collaborations are pretty wild.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, you can get Disney princesses, Disney Mickey and friends, the Met, Marvel, Star wars, NBA, and NHL. There's gonna be something for everybody there.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, it's fantastic. So you could slay your summer reading look. Go to Pair Eyewear.com and use code GLASSES for 15 off your first pair. And support the show by mentioning that reading glasses sent you in your post checkout survey. That's p a I r eyewear.com code glasses, glasses, glasses.

[Bria Grant]

Hey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hey there.

[Bria Grant]

Do you love reading Smut?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Erotica, romance, Romantasy?

[Bria Grant]

Is your E reader full of horny fairies and sexy shifters?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Are your shelves bursting with enemies to lovers?

[Bria Grant]

We're reading Smut, your new faded mate.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Every other Friday, we dive into sexy books and talk to the people who love them.

[Bria Grant]

Consider this our meet cute reading smut.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Every other Friday on maximum fun. This week, pack up your backpacks and lace up your boots. We are recommending Bria's favorite type of book, stories that feature characters on a journey. Baby, what's a journey? Oh, we need like a.

[Bria Grant]

Like a footsteps on a path or like a foghorn. Okay. Yeah, like bringing it back to boats.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Bring it back to boat centric episode. Well, people go on journeys on boats and ships.

[Bria Grant]

Definitely both. I'm gonna talk about it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All right. Before we get into it. Bria, this has been a wheelhouse item for you, I think, the entire show.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Do you still love this? Is this still squarely in there?

[Bria Grant]

I do. I love it. I love a physical journey. I love a physical journey. I like going on a physical journey. I like reading about a physical journey, and I like an emotional character journey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

You like both at the same time. Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

And most books that have the former have the latter.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Not all books that have the latter have the former.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

But most books have a journey for each character. It's very rare you read a book in there. The character's like, I learned nothing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I changed nothing.

[Bria Grant]

It's kind of the point of books, right. Is this. But what I really like is when it incorporates both. But sometimes I am like. Like, when I was making this list, there were books where I'm like, it wasn't a huge journey, but there was such an emotional journey that it feels like it also falls into this category. What about you? Are you into the person on a journey?

[Mallory O'Meara]

I've gotten more into them over the years. I think I realized I like characters in vehicle journeys. Like, I just read the book that you love, Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Harnett. I was like, I love road trip books. But also I realized I have two train recommendations on here.

[Bria Grant]

Amazing.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I do. I love train books. Can some folks please recommend me more train stories? Because I guess I love trains.

[Bria Grant]

Trains are fun.

[Mallory O'Meara]

All right, let's get into the books. Bria, what's your first recommendation?

[Bria Grant]

Well, when we started, you said, are you just going to do Charlotte McConaughey books? And I was like, no, But I could. But I could. She has so many women on journeys.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like her. All of her books.

[Bria Grant]

It's all of her books. But the one I think is the most woman on a journey is Migrations.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Well, I would hope with the title.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And I just recently talked about it, so I won't get into it too much, but it's about a woman who follows these turns. Turns which are birds like T E R S on their migrations. And this is suddenly a near future in which. Which is a lot of her books where it's a near future, but it's not like. So, yeah, you know what? It's like a.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's like 10 years in the future.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Or.

[Bria Grant]

But it's a. Things have gone dark. It's all a little bit like more eco. Eco horror. Ish. In some ways. Like, so bird. These birds are mostly extinct, and this is their last. Probably going to be their last migration, these birds. So this woman follows these birds. But there's also an emotional thing she's dealing with that she doesn't want to talk about. But she gets on this boat. Wow. Gotta tell you. No.

[Mallory O'Meara]

She gets on a ship.

[Bria Grant]

She gets on a ship. And I think it's pretty big. I think it's quite tall. It's not huge, but it is tall because it is. It's a fishing ship. And it's also hard for them to fish because there's not many fish left in the ocean. And they go and they travel to follow the terns migration. And this sounds like not a thriller, but it is a thriller. And all of her books are sort of thrillers and they have a mystery and there's usually a woman dealing with a mystery.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Quiet thriller.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing about her books is she does a lot of research on the locations, which I think is why they're all so amazing. Like, she just learned. You learn so much science and so many things by reading these books and so much about locations. Like I'm never going to end up in some sort of arctic circle on a boat, but I. But here I am. You have like this one. I'm not.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I.

[Bria Grant]

Maybe I'll go to Greenland one day. But you have Greenland, the ocean, you have all these really cold places. It's just really great. And you get to go on this journey as this woman sort of dealing with this pretty tragic thing that happened to her that she's trying to make up over the course of the journey. I said I wasn't going to talk about the book and then I talked a lot about the book. What's your first book, Melly?

[Mallory O'Meara]

It is by reading glasses hall of famer Sheree Dima Line. It's Marrow Thieves.

[Bria Grant]

Right.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So this is a YA book. It's a clifi post apocalyptic novel and it's set in a world where the only people who can still dream are native people. So there's this group of survivors in Northern America. They're all indigenous and they're traveling around in this sort of like group to evade these white hunters who are. They want to hunt them for their bone marrow because they think if they consume their bone marrow, they'll be able to dream again. And our protagonist is this teenage boy who's like traveling with this group. And so it's like a really fun road novel, but it's also got all like, it's a real. I. I love the mashup of huge like sci fi clifi post apocalyptic drama. But it's like all from this teenage boy. So like in the middle of it he's like, wow, there's that girl. And she's real cute. Like, I love that mix of like, like really tender personal dramas, like up against the background of all this stuff. And it's a, it's a great travel book. What's your second one.

[Bria Grant]

So I could do all sci fi horror ones and that is sort of what I go to. And a lot of apocalyptic ones, but I wanted to try to do one that wasn't. And so my second one is the pairing of you. The Pairing by Kate. Thank you so much.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Thank you.

[Bria Grant]

The second one is the pairing by Casey McQuiston, which is about. It's about two exes who accidentally end up on the same food tour in Europe.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Love it.

[Bria Grant]

So they're like. They both. They had this tour booked and then they didn't. They weren't. They were like, well, certainly we've broken up. This other person isn't going to go. But they both end up going on the food tour. And then you get to have food, you get to have wine, you get to have sex. There's awkwardness. It's very lovely.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But the sex is not part of the tour.

[Bria Grant]

No, I mean the book. It's part of the book. The book. The book has. Yes, sorry, the touring.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And then here is the genital tasting.

[Bria Grant]

You get food, you get wine on the tour, you get beautiful. European sex is extracurricular. The romance is some.

[C]

Is.

[Bria Grant]

That's extracurricular.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And there's stuff for that.

[Bria Grant]

There's a lot of local stuff. Anyway, it's great. It's. It's fantastic. It's a really lovely little travel, two people on a journey book on a tour. What's your second one?

[Mallory O'Meara]

My second one is my first train book. Book I really loved last year.

[Bria Grant]

Is this going to go into your wheelhouse?

[Mallory O'Meara]

Maybe. Folks, send me more train books and we'll. We're going to see because I am like, just the thought of reading books on a train is like exciting to me. If you have especially like speculative fiction train books, hit me up.

[Bria Grant]

Cuz we just don't get many. We don't get to ride on trains much.

[Mallory O'Meara]

My boyfriend has never been on a train.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, wow, wow, wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I like, was so. I freaked out about that so much. I was like, we got to go on a train. We got to go. We got. He was like, where are we going to? I was like, I don't know. But we got to go on a train.

[Bria Grant]

You can go to San Diego.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, I'm literally gonna plan a train trip because he's never been on a train. But I'm from the east coast and there's like. You take the train constantly.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, we don't do much here.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah, there's a lot. Not as many trains. But anyway, send me your speculative fiction train. Books and your regular dream books, I guess. But it is a book I loved last year and it was one of those books that I read after our cut off. So this book might have been my. One of my favorites of 2024. It's the cautious Traveler's Guide to the Wastelands by Sarah Brooks. Oh, my God. This book, it is an 1800s historical fantasy book about a train that is traveling through. I guess it's a magical landscape, but that makes it sound nice. It's more like. Everybody describes this book as Annihilation. Set on a train because it is like this huge swath of Siberia has become this like very strange landscape that is starting to pollute the areas around it's growing. It's like. And if you go through it, like, you have to really guard yourself. Like they. When you travel on this train, they have this like big list of do's and don'ts. They're like, can't stare out the window too long or the like, you're gonna get infected with the strange. So good. And one of those multiple POV books. And like everybody, all the. All the main characters are like traveling on this train and they each have their own secrets and their own agendas for being on this train. And then you're traveling across these wastelands and you're seeing all this wild stuff. And I just loved it, like, because it's such a great amalgamation of fantasy, sci, fi, horror history. It's so good. And yeah, love a train trip. What's your next one, Bria?

[Bria Grant]

My next one is very personal. On a Journey. Okay. It's called I'm Starting to Worry about this Black Box of Doom, a book I love by Jason.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is one of your favorite books of last year.

[Bria Grant]

I loved it. It's about an Uber driver who shows up and this woman is like, hey, I need you to drive me really far away with this black box. And there's gonna be a bunch of money, but you can't ask me what's in the box and we can't open it. And he's like, what? And she's like, oh. And also we have to go right now. And he's like, what? And then they do. And things unfold along the way. This is actually not science fiction. It seems like it's going to be. It's not. It's about people who misunderstand each other. It's about being on the Internet. It's about living life instead of being on the Internet. And it has a lot of like modern day questions. I think that are really important to talk about. I just loved this book. I think it actually is very nuanced and interesting, and it's a very long journey. They go, like, all the way across America. Great person on a journey. They're journeying. What's your next one?

[Mallory O'Meara]

My next one is a book that I read last year on my big reading every grief book possible, and it's called the Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry by Rachel Joyce. And this is an on foot journey.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, on foot journey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think this is my only on foot journey. It's about this elderly man, and he gets a letter saying that an old friend of his is dying, and he decides to break out of his very sad life and walk across England to her before. Before she passes.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And along the way, you realize that he's, like, hiding a lot of secrets about his life to himself and also to the other people in his life. And his friend is involved in those secrets and he has all this guilt and he kind of wants to walk to her as penance because he, like, feels so guilty. And it's very sad. But it's also very beautiful and also very entertaining at parts because, like, it. There's a part where it kind of becomes like, forest gump and people are like, why are you walking? And, like, people start joining him and he's like, why are you, like, all these, like, weird, like, New Age people, like, try to join him because they think he's doing something spiritual. And he's just like, nope, just walking.

[Bria Grant]

Wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's very, very sweet, and I really enjoyed it. Richard. Oh, I almost put this on here.

[Bria Grant]

Okay, well, this is part of. There's a book in this genre that I think really inspired my love, and it's. It's basically a book that is like, post apocalyptic or apocalypse is beginning. Yes, apocalyptic. Right. And it's. Someone has to go from one place to the. This is what my first. The first movie I ever wrote and directed is. This is the same thing, Best Friends Forever. But it's like, there's a lot of books that fall into this category of, like, there's an apocalypse happening or something dramatic happening, and people have to go from one place to another. So Future Home of Living Gods, Girl in Red is kind of post apocalyptic. The last one, like, there's just, like, a lot of books like this. But the one I'm going with, which I took a lot, Ted, and really made me think about it, is Survivor Song by Paul Tremblay.

[C]

Love this book.

[Bria Grant]

Obviously, we both really like this book. And it's a virus is spreading. It's a bit like rabies. It's a bit like zombie ism. And this woman gets a call from her friend that she gets bitten. She's been bitten. And she gets to the hospital asap, and she's pregnant.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And this book came out right when the pandemic started. And I remember everyone. Paul, being like, I'm sorry.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I personally caused this.

[Bria Grant]

And the whole book is just them trying to get to a safe place. And I really love that type of plot. I don't know why. I just love it. But I think this is such a exemplary. When I say person on a journey, this is really the kind of book I mean.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, because it's the epitome of this thing that you like, which is very personal stories set against the background of something big happening.

[Bria Grant]

Right, right. And it's usually a quick journey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Like, you got you. There's a timer on it, which I always like when there's, like. You got to get there by this certain.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes.

[Bria Grant]

Certain time. Yeah. What's your next one?

[Mallory O'Meara]

My next book is another train book. Choo Choo baby. I don't know why. I don't. I mean, I'm not even that big of a. Like, I don't consider myself a train person.

[Bria Grant]

Right.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, I like trains.

[Bria Grant]

Okay. Not like you're not building like a. Like a model train.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm not like Perry from Love on the Spectrum.

[Bria Grant]

Right, sure, sure.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Who. My. My. My lovely Massachusetts girl. Yeah. Anyway, this is Pieces by Helen Oyeyemi. And this is one of my favorite books of all time.

[Bria Grant]

Oh, wow.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I. I mean, Helen. Oh, yeah.

[Bria Grant]

It's not one. I've read. I've read some other Helen Oyami books, but not this one.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I love this. She's one of my favorite authors. And this is like. It's between this and White is for Witching for my favorite books by her. So it's about this newlywed couple, and they're like, I say wed. They're like, they've committed themselves to each other, but they haven't gotten legally married, and they're going on a train journey for their honeymoon, and it's like, paid for by their family, and they don't really know what's going to happen. And once they embark, they realize that they might be the only people on this train, and a lot of weird stuff starts happening.

[Bria Grant]

I love that.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's like. It's this very strange, weird train journey, but it's also. It's really about like being seen by people who love you and like the strange feeling like when you break up with someone who knows you very deeply and like all that shared language is just gone.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And it's like very like that very surreal, weird feeling. And because it's Eleanor Yemi, it's very strange and surreal and this book is very queer as well. So just banger all around. But what is your next book?

[Bria Grant]

My next one is.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, this is your last pick.

[Bria Grant]

That's my last pick. Oh, it's so sad. But I wanted to do a retelling because I think retellings are really popular in this genre because so many basic stories center around a journey, a physical journey. Right. So many, so many stories. Like from our classic. Yeah, classic. Yeah, that's the one I'm looking for. A very, like a hero's journey is very much a part of it. And the hero's journey, traditionally it is like you're journey. It's a literal journey on the road and you're fighting monsters and things, whatever. So I wanted to do a retelling. So I'm doing James by Percival Everett, which is a retelling of a wicked.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Buzzy book from last year. Yeah.

[Bria Grant]

From the point of view of James and it's all about him escaping from slavery after he finds out he's gonna be sold and then he. He escapes and they get on.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Wow.

[Bria Grant]

A boat. Not a ship, it's a raft.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's a boat.

[Bria Grant]

It's a raft and they go down the river.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It is a water faring vessel.

[Bria Grant]

That is correct. And there is a. One larger ship, but not that large. Anyway, don't know why we're into ship size right now. There's a lot of. So I think this is obviously really great. Every. People love. It was a really.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Well, wasn't it? Barnes and Nobles book of the year.

[Bria Grant]

I don't know. Yeah, I think it was.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think it was.

[Bria Grant]

It was just really. It's really well done, very interesting, well written and it's very much about this journey that they're on together and how when you look at this journey through a different lens, it looks very different. It's not a fun.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It's not a fun, light hearted little adventure.

[Bria Grant]

It becomes about, you know, this man and his safety and him missing his family and him trying to figure out what his life looks like. It's just. It just becomes a very different book. But it's so. It's a great emotional journey as well as physical journey.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Hey.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. And your last one.

[Mallory O'Meara]

My last one. Is for all the people out there who like to wait till a book is not buzzy anymore to read it.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Because this book was buzzy for so long and I think it's finally calmed down, but it is still worth reading. It's Station 11 by Emily St. John Mandel. I mean, just modern classic for a reason. This book is so amazing. But it was really buzzy when it came out, and then it was really buzzy when the pandemic started. And then it was really buzzy because it got a great TV adaptation. So now I feel like the waters have calmed. And if you're looking for a great journey book, you cannot get a better one than this. It is about. It's like a twin timelines novel where the first timeline is like, right when a pandemic is starting.

[Bria Grant]

Right.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And then there's the. Then there's the present day timeline, which is 20 years later. And it's about like the pandemic has ravaged the world. It's like this sort of dystopian, post apocalyptic world. And the main character, who was a little girl when the pandemic started, is now an adult and she is part of this traveling theater troupe that like, does Shakespeare and they're traveling around the country, they're traveling around this, like, very altered world and they run into this, like, weird cult and things get bonkers.

[Bria Grant]

I love, I. The other thing I love about a post apocalyptic book like this is the. The attempt to keep part of society. So I love the traveling theater troupe. Like, to me, I'm like, that's. That is what we would be doing. We would be like, oh, art is still important and here's why it's still important. Yeah. I. I just love this book.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. Absolutely fantastic. And the show is really worth watching. I did not watch all of it. I read books while Jeremy watched it.

[Bria Grant]

But it's great.

[Mallory O'Meara]

But it is.

[Bria Grant]

It's really beautiful too.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. So you can send your thoughts on Journey books to reading glasses podcast gmail.com before we talk to Meline Rue about her new book, which also features a journey that is not a fun one, but it is great to read about. We're going to take a quick break. Reading Glasses is sponsored in part this week by Aura Frames. Folks, Father's Day is coming up. What do you get the man who already has everything and he says he doesn't need anything, he doesn't want another tie. He wants something that he's actually gonna like and he's actually gonna use. It's an aura digital frame. Bria. Dads are so hard to shop for.

[Bria Grant]

Dads are so hard to shop for. And there is a way to make them happy.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There is a way to make dads happy.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. Is to give them a digital picture frame. They like technology. Well, they like pictures.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, dads love pictures.

[Bria Grant]

They love pictures. And dads like technology.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. They like to feel fancy. They like to feel like they're on the cutting edge. And what is more cutting edge than a digital photo frame? This one was actually named best digital photo frame by Wirecutter. It's very easy to see why there's unlimited storage so you can edit as many photos, videos. Video like that feels so futuristic to me to have, like a digital photo frame in your home that plays videos. It's like, yeah, it just feels like something in a sci fi book. You could even put some memes in there for your dad. It's very simple to set up. Because that's the thing is dads love technology, but sometimes I need a little help with it.

[Bria Grant]

Can't happen. Can happen.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So all you got to do is just plug it in, share away. And for your dad, who swears that he didn't need anything, he just wants another book about World War II. Let the aura frame prove him wrong.

[Bria Grant]

Aura has a great deal for Father's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $30 off their bestselling carver matte frame. That's a U R A frames promo code. Glasses. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Glasses. Glasses.

[C]

Actor Samantha Sloan has played a lot of characters. Bev Keane in midnight mass. Ms. Roher in the new film the Life of Chuck. Lily, the mother who diligently watches over her son in the hit medical drama the Pit. But what character really made Samantha Sloyan feel seen? That is special agent Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks. When you see somebody swing for the fences with almost like no sense of.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Embarrassment or, you know, just with total abandon, I'm.

[C]

I'm just captivated. Join me, Jordan Cruciola for that and more on the latest feeling scene from Mac maximumfun.org.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And we are here, friend of the show, Madeline. I don't remember how many times you've been on reading glasses, but quite a few. We have Madeline Rue, one of one of our hall of famers, here on reading glasses, back to talk about her new book. Madeline, thank you so much for coming back to Reading Glasses.

[C]

Thank you. I think this is number three. Maybe I don't know, but it's been a minute, so it's good to be back.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It has been a minute. We're always happy to have you here, especially for this book in particular. I think the glasses are going to freak out about this, but before I even get into it. What are you reading right now?

[C]

I am currently reading the Memory Police by Yoko Ogawa.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, great book.

[C]

Yeah. It took me a sec to, like, get into it, but now that I'm, like, deeper in, I'm really loving it and it's fun to read something literary that still has a lot of world building and. Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm loving it so far, so.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, fantastic. All right. I. I started this interview a little early because I just want to. I'm so excited to guide you about this book. Please tell us about a girl walks into the forest.

[C]

Sure. Gosh. It's sort of like the book of my heart. Not that they're.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I can tell.

[C]

Not that, like, the others aren't right, but sometimes you just hit on something at a moment that everything just gels, everything comes together. You know, your editor loves it. The publisher is excited. The COVID art turns out great. Right. Like, everyone just sort of starts to hit like they're. What is batting 100? I don't know. Sports metaphor.

[Mallory O'Meara]

This is one of my favorite covers of the year.

[C]

I'm obsessed. Yeah. And, you know, it took us a minute to, like, land on the perfect thing, but we really wanted to capture that sort of like. Like, you know, it is about beauty, it is about girlhood and womanhood. And so, you know, we wanted Vala to be really center on it, but also have some hints as to what you might be in for.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So tell us about what. Tell us about what happens.

[C]

Sure. That was not a summary at all. That was just.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I mean, you could just pick this book up based off of the COVID alone and you would be happy.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, it's just. It's always exciting when you get a great cover that you feel like captures the vibe so well. And it's. It's really this sort of dark fairy tale journey story in every sense. Right. She begins, you know, she's a really flawed character and she has to start as someone who's sort of delusional and brainwashed. And, you know, I've described it as sort of the ultimate, like, journey from being a pick me to a girl's girl, you know, that is a really.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Good way to describe it.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, as a reformed pick me it was an important book to write, right? To sort of show the journey of someone who relies on sort of male validation and attention and this idea that because she's beautiful, all of her value is tied up in that. And, you know, she's sort of. Her village has to send little portraits to the rich count who lives in the spooky forest, and he gets to pick, like, the most beautiful girl to be his bride. And it feels like a really special thing, and it feels like a huge honor, as far as she knows. It is until she gets there and realizes, oh, this is. This is the poison chalice. Yeah, this is not great. It's not great for anyone. You know, I was. I was really excited that some of the reviews picked up on the fact that, like, this is a critique of how these sorts of systems hurts everybody. Right? The boys and men are not having a good time. The women are not having a good time. No one's having a good time. So, yeah, I don't want to give too much away, but it's sort of a play. It's sort of an origin story slash fairy tale. Baba Yaga, meditation on liberation, A very gory one, but I was so psyched.

[Mallory O'Meara]

About all of the gore. That was my. Some of my favorite good for her moments. I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing.

[C]

Yeah, I was pretty surprised slash excited about what Quiltry and HarperCollins let me get away with. I was not. I was not expecting it. I was. You know, I turned in the draft and I was like, there's a few of these they might ask me to tone down, but they were very cool with all of it, so.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Oh, amazing. Okay, so this is a really personal book for you. I love the intro that you wrote to the book. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[C]

Sure, yeah. It's about this. I mean, I don't think it makes it into the hardcover. It's only in the arcs, unfortunately. But I have put it. It's posted on my website. It's on my website if anyone wants to see it as, like, an essay. Madeline-rue.com but, yeah, it's recalling this sort of. Sort of the moment the scales fell from my eyes in terms of. I just sort of was one of the boys. Like, I grew up with older brothers. My whole life was, you know, video games and Ninja Turtles and Star wars and. And, like, I was very athletic and very kind of rough and tumble, and that, like, won me over, you know, like, kind of. The boys, like, ingratiated me into the, like, a Lot of the boys groups in school. And then one day in gym class, like, it was very cold and hair had started growing on my legs. And this one kid, John, I won't give a last name, was like, why are your legs hairy? That's disgusting. Why aren't you shaving them? Which sounds like I'm making it up. It sounds so preposterous, like. Like on its. On the nose, right? Like just this preposterously chauvinistic moment. But it truly did.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I think a lot of us had moments like that.

[C]

Yeah, it just was sort of this, like, oh, I'm not one of you. Right? It just felt like this, like, lightning bolt of, oh, we're not the same, and you don't accept me as one of you. And it was just kind of the first of many lightning bolts, right? Where you're like, oh, you. I will never actually be accepted into your group, you know, into this sort of club that I'm not allowed in. So, yeah, it was mortifying. And to this day I'm like, very self conscious about having hairy legs, even though I don't really shave them anymore. But, yeah, it's just. It stuck with me forever and ever. So that was one of the catalysts. I mean, there are a lot, right? It's. There's a hundred million, thousand times in your life you'll be reminded that you're a woman and that that's inferior. So, yeah, that was sort of, you know, when you're writing for young adults, you want to give them a touch point that feels relatable and feels like something they may have also experienced. So that was why I chose that specific memory to sort of write my intro essay about. But yeah, I mean, it was like everything. A really dear person to me had just gone through an assault and watching that play out and how little justice there was in the end, even though things kind of quote, unquote, went as well as they could for her, it was still just so enraging. And also it was like the very beginning of the war or the invasion of Ukraine, I should say. So I was using a lot of Ukrainian folklore as inspiration for this and a lot of flavor. So, yeah, it was a lot of anger and perfect book for the perfect time. Yeah, exactly. It was. It's actually very funny that, like, when the election was happening, I was like, oh, man, this book is going to come out and we'll have our first female president and it's going to feel so redundant. And so I felt the same way.

[Mallory O'Meara]

About Daughter of Daring I was like, do we even need this anymore? And then the election happened, and I was like, how do we need this, us, even more than we did five years ago?

[C]

Right, exactly. That's the exact journey that I went on. You know, I was emailing with my editor, my agent, like, I don't know. I feel like now people are gonna think this is so, like, cliche or something, or it's just not necessary. It's like, oh, just kidding. It's truly could not be more necessary. So.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So readers have been really hungry over the past few years for beauty horror, and a lot of that is, like, you know, skincare and makeup horror. But I think that this is also a beauty horror book. Do you count this in that category?

[C]

I do. It kind of straddles a lot of categories, which, you know, is par for the course for me. You know, publicists hate it. They want something that you could just be like, it's this. Exactly. But no, I think it absolutely is part of that, because ultimately, the magic system in this book is based off of her, like, vitality and youth and beauty. Once she sort of runs out of her freebie charges of magic, she has to draw on her own, like, physical appearance in order to continue doing magic. So, you know, it. It forces her into a corner to say, do you want to survive or do you want to have a pretty face? And I think that is, you know, I think there's just a moment, sort of. I think that that comes upon us all when you realize, oh, like, my youth, my beauty, whatever. It only protects you for so long. It only really counts for so much. And at the end of the day, again, it's a sort of poison chalice of, like, how much am I willing to become what someone else wants me to be in order to get protection or, you know, validation, that promotion, whatever. So I think it absolutely fits into that category because, again, you know, she's sort of sold to this. This wealthy family and on. On the understanding that she is beautiful and that is what her value is to these people. And she is kind of severely maimed on. On the way to. To this wedding. And so immediately. Right. It imperils her status with them. And, yeah, I don't think you. I don't really think there's an argument against it being beauty horror. It's absolutely in that category.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So unhinged women are, like, the big theme of 2025. You gotta tell us about Mala.

[C]

Yeah, like. Like I said, she starts out as someone who's kind of hateable in a way. I mean, you know, I tried to still make her funny and, and a little self deprecating, but you know, she starts out pretty high on her horse about being like the prettiest girl around and all the things that that will get her and how fancy and rich and luxurious her life is going to be. And then, you know, she's maimed, like I said, physically maimed on the way to her, her big wedding. And that is sort of the initial inciting incident that is her journey into, you know, ultimate girls girl. And it was really important to me that her journey was intrinsically tied to the forest itself. That, you know, I've always been fascinated by the thought of like, oh well, we call it mother nature. It seems important that we have anthropomorphized the earth as some as a woman. Kind of makes it easier to like do bad things to her. Right. Like it, it feels important that, that, that is like the way we talk about earth and nature itself. So. Yeah, so she sort of encounters these magical spooky forces in the forest that are trying to encourage her to like see, wake up to the truth. Right, right. Wake up to the evil of these people that she is. That she's come to align herself with this count and his family. And they are sort of, you know, these big city industry people, they're loggers, they want to, you know, take the trees from the forest. And by doing that it started this sort of long term war. So she is caught up in this war of industry and nature and she has to pick a side and by sort of being exposed, you know, like losing her physical beauty, being exposed to all this really strange family who is kind of cursed, but it's like cursed because of their own, you know, their own evil. Yeah, their own act.

[Mallory O'Meara]

There's a couple, there's a couple twists in this book where I was like, oh my God, these people.

[C]

Holy. Yeah, they're dark. You know, and it has a little bit of that like, like classic horror, like the family that's kind of been isolated in the woods too long, that they sort of created their own weird kingdom and their own weird culture. Their own like, like I don't think if they went back to, you know, the capital that everyone would be cool with who they've become because they're so isolated. They've, they've, their little kingdom has become twisted and they're, their morality rules. Right. And their morality is pretty dark and twisted. So. Yeah. And then ultimately, you know, she has to choose like, okay, I need to free myself from this place, like, physically, I can't stay here. It's not safe. But also she wakes up to the idea that, you know, I need to sort of step into my own power. I need to take revenge not only for myself, but for this forest and the things that have been done to it. So there's. Yeah, it ends in her sort of glorious unveiling as a. A magical creature who can take revenge for the woods and for this sort of. This whole legacy of. Of young girls who have been sent to this place to have miserable lives. And it's also sort, you know, we also see her sort of break a cycle finally, which I think is very satisfying. Right. There's just this. This churn of young girls that have been sent here and finally someone, you know, all the. She's not a chosen one. I wanted that to be very clear. It's. It's just that all the conditions are finally right for this to stop, for someone to. To put an end to it. So she's not only, like, becoming the. The ultimate girls girl, as I said. She's also, like, inheriting the throne of Baba Yaga. Like, she is like the next Baba Yaga. And so it's sort of also an origin story of my own creation of how Baba Yaga is. Was how the next would be. Is she a forever creature? Or is there sort of this. Like. There's been many of them throughout the ages. So.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So something I really love about this book is it's not just like a dark fairy tale with horror elements, even though I do love those books, but, like, this book, like, inherently shows off, like, the dark side to fairy tales and, like, these things that seem very romantic and sweet, and it's so nice to be the prettiest girl in the village. So is there. Were there any fairy tales that you drew on for this, or is there, like, maybe a classic fairy tale that's always bothered you, because when you actually think about it, it's pretty up. Like, I mean, obviously there's Baba Yaga DNA in this book, but is there anything else that you were like, I kind of want to poke some holes in this story.

[C]

I. I don't know that there's like, if it's a. If it's talking back to anything necessarily, I think it's really more like an homage. I was. I read the Bloody Chamber and Other Stories by Angela Carter very. At a very formative age, and ever since, it's sort of like I feel like I'm often trying to speak back to that book in a Positive way, right? To be like, this is a very awesome club that I would love to be part of is to write stories like this that are romantic but also really off putting and really twisted. I just think her prose is so beautiful. I love what she does with fairy tales. I can't recommend that collection enough, but, you know, there is definitely an element of like Bluebeard in this, which is, you know, I've done different sort of vague retellings of store of fairy tales before. I've done Beauty and the Beast and stuff like that. But this definitely has a little bit of Bluebeard DNA alongside the Baba Yaga stuff. And obviously, like, I had. I did a lot of reading of different Baba Yaga interpretations. And one thing I'm so drawn to about her is that there really isn't any. No one has come down on, like, she's good or she's bad, right? She's sort of. Sometimes she's helpful and sometimes she's not someone you want to run into. And I really wanted to honor that, right. And have her be like, yeah, she sort of has her own agenda. She's not necessarily a heroic character in this book. She has some very specific goals she wants to get accomplished and she kind of does not. The ends justify the means to her. And I also wanted her to sort of embody. Blair Braverman always talks about, like, nature just does not give a shit about you, right? Like. Like it has no morality. It has no. If an avalanche kills you, there was no agenda behind it. It was just an avalanche. Right. And so I wanted her to have kind of that same energy too, right? Of like, she is speaking for nature. She is part of nature. And so that means that there's a lot of brutality inherent to what she does and the choices she makes. So, yeah, there is certainly fairy tale inspiration in this, but I don't think it's really trying to undo any of that or be a twist on that. I think it's actually just sort of sitting in the fact that most fairy tales are kind of dark and spooky and have an element of like, oh, wait, like they eat the children, right?

[Mallory O'Meara]

And you're like, hold on, hold on, wait a minute, right?

[C]

It's like, yeah, we've. We've made this cute. I mean, Cinderella, even on its face, is kind of a scary situation if you really think about it. There's a lot of. There's a lot of question marks I have in about that. So, yeah, so I think more is just trying to be at home in that Sort of tradition of like, hey, there's a lot. There's a lot of beautiful images in this book. There's a lot of nice prose and. And pretty passages, but underneath it all is really this sense of foreboding and a sort of sinister energy, which I love.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Right.

[C]

I mean, that's my favorite combination. Right. I want to be like, oh, my God. Like, I love that, but, oh, my God, that's horrible.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yes. That is the exact experience of reading this book.

[C]

Yeah. And to make, like, the most, like, hateable people you can sort of imagine, so that by the end, when they do get their comeuppance, it's like, just. Thank God.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Delicious.

[C]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Delicious.

[C]

Satisfying. Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So satisfying. So this episode is all about journey books. Do you have any favorite journey books? Like road trip books, train trip books, walking books?

[C]

Oh, my goodness. I mean, I know it's like the cliche, but I do love Lord of the Rings for exactly that reason. The sort of ultimate. The ultimate walking trip, truly. I'm trying to think if there's any other. I don't think this counts because they just played on train tracks. I was a huge boxcar children person growing up, and also, like, I read 100 million of those American Girl doll novels, and I feel like Kirsten's story of, like, being a pioneer is also very, like, journey inspired.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I was a big Little House on the Prairie.

[C]

Yes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Reader when I was a kid.

[C]

Me too. I also think, like, I mean, I. I talked about this in a different interview, but, like, weirdly, a ton of the inspiration for this came from the show alone. I'm obsessed with the show alone. They just drop people into the middle of nowhere and see how long they can survive. And watching people who fancy themselves as really incredible survivalists have to actually, like, live up to that completely in isolation. And how often people quit just because they're so lonely. But part of it was just the sort of, like, the weird little tricks they have, the little. The ways they survive, the little, like, mechanisms they set up. I found all of that very inspiring. So I wanted to add, like, that survivalist sense to the book in a few ways. A lot of that ended up getting cut just because we wanted to really focus on the. Her personal journey. But, yeah, that sort of. That sort of sense of like you're dropped into a giant woods and you. Now you just have to make it to me as a person who does not hike or camp, a very scary proposition.

[Mallory O'Meara]

So, yeah, extremely scary. So, Madeline, are you doing any events for this? Where can we find this? Where can we find you? I know social media is very weird right now. Where. Where are you still? Are you still on places?

[C]

I think it still says I'm on Twitter in the back of this book. I am not but I'm a bluesky authorroo and same with Instagram. You can find me there. I don't have a Facebook or Twitter anymore but I, you know I have a little bit of a presence or my website. Madeline-rue.com if you want to read that essay that was ahead of the book in the arc, it's there. And this is available everywhere in all formats. I'm doing a event on June 17th at the Northgate Barnes & Noble 6pm with Peyton June. We're doing sort of a co thing so I will be there. I may have another event. I don't know. It's sort of in the works right now. But for now I will put but.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I will put links to all the things so people can find you. Madeline, thank you so much for coming back on the show.

[C]

No thank you. Delightful Foreign.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Now let's solve a bookish problem from one of our listeners. So this is a two parter. Abraham wrote in a while ago for help because he was reading a book by one of his favorite authors. The E. Schwab found it very triggering but before we could get to it because we have literally hundreds of requests, he wrote in again. So Abraham wrote in again and said hello again. I kind of screwed up in anticipation of the release of V. E Schwab's new book, Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil.

[Bria Grant]

Such a good title.

[Mallory O'Meara]

It is so good. I picked up the book again which was vengeful to try and finish it. However, I had a full blown panic attack and had to stop. However, when the Book Riot podcast mentioned Swab's new book, I remembered Vengeful and had a panic attack while driving and had to pull over. Now I can't look at her books without remembering that God awful feeling. I was so excited about the new release. The Invisible Life of Addie Larue and the Shades of Magic series are some of my favorite all time books, but I can't even think about reading any of her work without the walls closing in. Is she in her work over for me? Are all thrillers and dark novels going to give me this reaction? I am so scared to even try to read some of the books I wanted to in fear of this happening again. Am I going to have to change my entire wheelhouse? I have never been afraid of books before and I kind of feel lost. P. S. My therapist says you should stop reading for a while, but I don't want to do that. Reading makes me feel safe and not alone. I lost that, and I don't know why. Please help. So the thing that was causing Abraham panic was. I believe it was, like, homophobia and violence against queer people.

[Bria Grant]

Okay.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And I haven't read that book, so I don't. I don't know. All right, we want to say right off the top, we do get emails like these, not all the time, but fairly often. So we have to say we're not mental health professionals. We will never, ever give advice to replace a therapist advice. If a therapist is telling you to do something, that's what we think you should do. And that's all we can say. We talk sometimes on the show about readers having extreme reactions like this to books. And our advice is always to see a mental health professional. Our advice is always going to be follow their advice. That's. That's. I mean, besides, legally.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Like, we're just not gonna tell. Give you counter advice to a therapist. We're just not going to do that.

[Bria Grant]

No.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Do you have any other thoughts on this, Bria?

[Bria Grant]

Yeah. I mean, you listen to your therapist, first of all. Second of all, I just want to tell you, Ve Schwab's books are not disappearing off of the planet.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Nope.

[Bria Grant]

They are not going anywhere. You have time to read them. Yes. Even the new one. And you may not read it while it's buzzy, but you can read it at some later date once you get a bigger hold on what's going on with these panic attacks and whether or not it's something that you can solve in a way that helps you to read these books. And I just think later down the line, look, whatever is going on in your life, you know, there's a lot of things that could be going on right now. And so, like, I think, like, just give yourself some grace. I know you love V. Schwab, and I'm sure, look, V. Schwab gets it.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I don't think she'd be mad about this.

[Bria Grant]

She understands. And, like, you can read these books at a later date, and they are not going anywhere. No one's going and burning all the books. They're gonna be available. They're gonna be available. So. So I. I think give yourself just a little bit of grace. And, like, I don't. I. I think that would help. What do you think?

[Mallory O'Meara]

So my thought on this is, if you are actually afraid to read, if you are having Panic attacks from books that make it so you cannot drive. Yeah, you gotta follow your therapist advice. Something's wrong. Like, this is an extreme reaction to a piece of art and you need some help. And if you eventually get back to reading under the advice of a mental health professional and you need to start over and find a new wheelhouse, that's okay. Yeah, everyone's tastes change over time. Sometimes it's slow, sometimes you just phase something out. Sometimes something extreme happens like this and it happens fast. And you just can't read books like that. And that's, that's just life. And you got to take care of yourself. You never push through a mental health crisis just to read a certain book. Like, take in art another way. Like play video games, watch a movie, you have a comfort series, or like a TV show that brings you a lot of joy. And like is very safe, comforting. Watch that. Like, art is not limited to books. And if the experience of reading is, is giving you an extreme reaction, there's other art that you can partake in. But yeah, folks, it's. I, I sometimes I feel like, you know, when you look on the back of like a insurance card or something and it's like, if you are having an emergency, please dial 91 1. Like, that's kind of how I feel about reading glasses. Like, if you're having a reading emergency that is causing you this extreme of a mental health reaction, we cannot help you. One, it's going to take us so long to get to your email.

[Bria Grant]

That's right.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And two, we're not qualified for that. We can help you read more books. We cannot help you with your brain. I wish we could, but we can't.

[Bria Grant]

We can't listen. We can't even help ourselves with our own brains sometimes.

[Mallory O'Meara]

I'm in therapy myself.

[Bria Grant]

Let's not like. Yeah, but I think, Listen to your therapist. If you think you have a good therapist. Yeah, listen to your therapist. These books aren't going away.

[Mallory O'Meara]

They're not going away.

[Bria Grant]

You'll be able to find them.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Yeah. If your reading taste change and you just can't read stuff, that's fine. Yeah, that's, that's just, that's life. Look at now all of a sudden. And sometimes it goes the other way. Now I'm in love with trains. Amazing life. Life constantly surprises you.

[Bria Grant]

Yeah, it's true. It's true. Why you should read Skydaddy because now you're, you're the train equivalent of skydiving.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Planes, trains and audio automobiles and audiobooks.

[Bria Grant]

That was gonna be married.

[Mallory O'Meara]

And boats and chips. If you want us to solve your reader problem, you can send it to reading glasses podcastmail.com as always, want to thank our wonderful mods who run our Discord server and our Facebook group Folks. If you're like damn, I want to get on that Discord server. If you are a Maximum Fun member, send your receipt to reading glasses podcast gmail.com or you can join right now. Go to maximumfun.org join, sign up to support reading classes and send your receipt to our email and we'll let you in the Discord server. We'll also love you forever which is priceless. And remember you can buy all kinds of cool reading glasses, tote bags and shirts and stickers over at our Void Merch store. There a link in the show notes for that and if you like the show, please rate and review us on the podcast listening app of your choice. Bria we're out almost at 2000 reviews on Apple Podcast.

[Bria Grant]

Hell yeah folks.

[Mallory O'Meara]

If you use Apple podcasts, iPhone users of the world rise up. Help us out. Get us to 2,000 reviews. We would love it. It's so great for us. It's so great for the show. It really means a lot to us. You can email us at reading glasses podcast gmail.com find us on Instagram at Reading Glasses Podcast. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading.

[C]

Maximum Fun, a worker owned network of.

[Mallory O'Meara]

Artist owned shows supported directly by you.