A (2:28)

Did you. Did you know, ahead of retirement that that might be something you might struggle with?

B (2:36)

Yeah, I worried about that. And so when I talked to some other friends who retired, you know, my mom and some of the other folks that I live around. Yeah, that was kind of something I worried about. And what do you do, you know, what am I going to do with my time? All but the problem is, is that everybody is different. And so I can't take Joe next door's experience and say, okay, well, that's what I'm going to do. You know, I don't play golf. I don't like to play, you know, if it's more frustrating than helpful for me. So, you know, it's finding out what your thing is. I guess that's what was that the first year was. It's finally figuring out what my thing is.

A (3:22)

So let's go back a little. So four years you've been retired. Let's go back five years ago. So you're a year out from the actual retirement date. What was going on in your mine? So maybe there's some what am I going to do when I retire? Were there also financial concerns or you already kind of figured out, I've got that piece dialed in, and it's just the other side I need to work on?

B (3:40)

Well, yeah, about five years ago, that was during COVID and my job was secure. I wasn't worried about that. But I was thinking, you know, things are different now. And so we went up, mom and I went up to the mountains and I got several retirement books. I started looking at you guys and several stuff, you know, for the hard stuff. I was an engineer, and so running numbers was my thing. I figured if I couldn't run the numbers, then it didn't matter anything else. So I was able to convince myself that I was going to be okay. That was a big relief. And then I had to start working on the emotional or the psychological components of retirement.

A (4:26)

And what did that look like? So you ran the numbers. You convinced yourself, I'm going to find financial position to be able to be okay. You knew that there might be this struggle with identity or what do I do when I don't have work? Were there things that you proactively did to try to get ahead of that?

B (4:45)

Unfortunately, not really. I kind of just put it out in my mind and with what I want. But I did see, I, I live in a retirement community, so there are a lot of people around. And so that first year, really, I, I, I started doing some writing, and we can get back to that later. But what do I do? And it was mostly decompressing for that first year. I didn't realize how much stress I was under for after 36 years of stress just goes up a little bit, A little bit, and so much. So actually, my first year, the stress had dropped off so much, My blood pressure medicine was dropped in half twice. So I'm running at a quarter of what I was while I was working. It tells me. That tells me now. Work was killing me, so I feel good about that. So that was a big help. And then I just started trying to explore what I wanted to do. My mom does volunteer work out at the hospital. She does pet therapy. So she takes the pets into the hospital to comfort people. Well, that wasn't my thing, but I went and talked to the volunteer people there and said, okay, well, what kind of opportunities do you have? And they. They have a great volunteer program at our hospital. And they said, oh, you can do this. And there's this, and there's like, 20 different things. And so I picked one of those. I was driving a golf cart around the hospital. So, you know, you see these people that can barely walk out in the parking lot, and they needed help getting to the front door, so I just would pick them up and do it. And I know it's not when I compare it to, you know, saving lives, but it's not like that. But they were so thankful. You know, some of these people could hardly walk. You know, I saw pregnant ladies that were about to explode, and they were, you know, 2,000 yards from where they needed to be. So I would pick them up and take them right to the front door. And so that was fulfilling. And then a little bit later. Go ahead.

A (7:00)

No, please.

B (7:02)

Okay. And a little bit later than that, driving around, one of the ladies in the volunteer office said, you. You worked out. Such as? I think, oh, yeah. She says, have you ever done spreadsheets? I go, like, every day for 36 years. Yeah. And so I went in and talked to her, and so now I'm working in their office, running some numbers for them and those kind of things, things that are simple for me, but we're, you know, if you're not into that kind of thing was challenging for them. So that's been kind of fulfilling, too. So that's what I'm doing now.

A (7:36)

Yeah, I love it, and thank you for sharing that. And one of the things we'll talk about is there's. There's two different types of freedom. There's the freedom from. And there's freedom to. And what it sounds like is you got that freedom from work and stress and deadlines. And there was an immediate noticeable difference, even just in blood pressure medication that Was a quantifiable difference of stress is being reduced. So that's the freedom from. But that freedom, too, I think, is where people struggle. What am I now doing? I don't like golf, to your point. My mom volunteers here. That's great, but that's not where I want to volunteer. So what are the things that I want to retire to? I want to. I want to touch upon more of that. Even the writing sounds like there's some. Some fun stuff there. I would love to know, though, you know, you knew ahead of time. Identity might be something that you struggle with. You mean, you were really good at your job. You did it for 36 years. That's a big part of who you are. What does it actually feel like to struggle with that? I hear people say that, you know, I struggle with identity. In your own words, is there a way that you would describe what it feels like when that's no longer there?

B (8:42)

Well, I guess the big thing is when, when you go to introduce yourself, what do you say? Okay, my name is Jim. Okay, what do I say after that? Who am I? What do I do? Okay, my kids are up and gone, so I'm a dad, but not a dad like these people think about. You know, I don't do the software stuff anymore, so I'm not that. What am I? And so that's was the challenge and thinking back over my life, and I didn't think about this as being a writing thing, but the way I describe it now is we all have chapters in our lives. And, you know, when you're in elementary school, he had that chapter and, okay, then you get out and you go to college and then you get married and there's different pluses and minuses for all that stuff. You have kids. Plus and minus. Or retirement's just another chapter and so you have to kind of let go of the stuff before that was good, maybe while you had kids. Okay, I don't have that, but I have grandkids now, so that's a little different. So you just have to embrace the new chapter and not, you know, you can love the stuff in the past, but now there's maybe new challenges, new things to think about in your new chapter. And that's, that's kind of where I've come to accept to where I am now. This is. Retirement is just a different chapter. And how do I explore this chapter?

A (10:10)

I think that's exactly right. Retirement's another chapter, I would say. And I'm curious your thoughts on this. The difference to me in the retirement chapter versus the other chapters is every other chapter. There's almost this. You're supposed to do it this way, and some of the decisions are made for you. You're supposed to go to school, get good grades, and you're supposed to go to college, and you're supposed to get married, you're supposed to get promotions, you're supposed to buy a home, you're supposed to prepare for retirement and all those things, they're all good things, but there's almost this sense of the decision is not being made for you, but there's an expectation of almost like direction that you're supposed to go. And then you get to retirement and it's just completely wide open in some cases. And it can be a little bit paralyzing, thinking, what am I supposed to do?

B (10:53)

Well, yeah, and for somebody like me, that we measure ourselves against something. As you said, those different chapters, there's expectations. You can measure yourself against those expectations. You know, are my kids growing up and are they successful? Okay, well, that's a reflection of how I grew up or I trained them. When you're retirement, you don't have that expectation per se. So how do you measure yourself? That has to be more organic inside. What are you doing? Are you making the world a better place? That's kind of where I am in retirement now. Am I making the world a better place? And my journey in that is not the same as the guy next door, not to say his is better or worse. You know, we just have to each have to decide ourselves what that next journey is. So.

A (11:43)

Yeah, he's got his chapter, you've got yours. I want to come back to where you are today because it sounds like you have figured some of these things. There's always new chapters, there's always new parts to it. But if you could go back to that word you used, challenging, you're four years in. If you could describe the hardest part of it, you know, there's a yes. Who do I introduce myself as? I'm still a dad, but my kids are grown. I'm no longer a software engineer. I no longer have the status of being at the top of my game, earning a lot of money, doing that, earning a lot of respect, doing that, Whatever the case might be. What were the. What were the hardest emotions to deal with? Was it loneliness? Was it boredom? Was it just. Was it depression? I mean, people share stuff that's like, yeah, it was real challenge. But that shows up as different things for different people.

B (12:31)

Yeah, for me, it was kind of awash in the waves, you know, why do, why get up in the morning and there's nothing I have to do. So you know, if when I was working, okay, I had to be there at a certain time and work for a certain amount of time and I had these goals to accomplish. That isn't true anymore unless I self impose something. You know, like when I have to go. Have to. It's kind of the wrong word but when I go to my volunteer stuff, okay, they expect me at a certain time to do something, certain things. Well, that's kind of like that. But you know, if I don't go, it's not going to affect me eating dinner that night because I'll. I'm not getting paid anyway. So. So it's more of a self realized kind of thing as opposed to, you know, am I going to be able to pay the rent kind of thing. So that was what was challenging. You have, it has to be more self starting I guess you have to find that your own purpose in that. So. And you can only play so much, you know, I love to cruise, you know, I go, you know, three, four weeks a year on a different cruises. But you only play so much. It's not ultimately fulfilling. It's fun but it's not fulfilling. And so you have to figure out what you're fulfilling. That is.

A (14:01)

Yeah, I'm, I'm curious Jim. Even you know, your retirement's new chapter. But it even feels like there's maybe chapters within that chapter and there's good aspects of it of yeah, there is more fun, there is more cruising. Health is improving as, as evidenced by the reduced stress, the, the reduced medication even for blood pressure stuff. There's also the hard parts of that. Who am I, there's the what am I getting up for in the morning? If you could rank, you know, if I was just to arbitrarily chop up your retirement into four chapters. Your one year, two year, three year four. Which of those was the most difficult and which has been the best so far?

B (14:39)

So the, the, the first year was the hardest. It was the most difficult. Just as a psychological components like we talked about before, the, this last year has to be the best. And so it's kind of been a evolution finding out what I'm going to do and those kind of things. I'm kind of locking into that now. And so now I can make some progress. I'm sure as I get older, you know, my health won't be as good as when I'm 85 as I am when I'm 63 now, but so there'll be more evolution in that. I won't be able to get up and go and do stuff like I can now. But maybe there'll be something else. You know, maybe I'll do more volunteer work, maybe I'll do more writing, whatever the case may be. I was talking with a lady the other day and she lives in a different, different place. But one of the ladies there is over 90 years old. I think she's 95 and still writing books. That's kind of okay. So she's not out running around in town and, you know, going on these wild adventures, but she's able to give back. She just went up to, to Alaska and she. They had started a festival a long time ago and she was able to go back to them and saw how that had grown into something really big. So you just have to kind of keep looking to the future. If you give up, you know, retirement is not a death sentence. I mean, we all are going to die, but it's not like I'm going home to die kind of thing. And retirement, if you look over the history, is a relatively unique thing. 100 years ago, our great grandparents didn't retire per se. They were still had to still out and work on their farm. So we have to figure out how to survive this retirement and more survive. How do we thrive in a new environment?

A (16:38)

How do you continue to create that purpose even when it's not necessarily created for you by deadlines or work projects or parenting or hitting a certain portfolio balance, whatever the. The goal might be, Right? So year one was the hardest. You lose your identity, you lose that sense of purpose. You have to start to rebuild it. What were the things you started doing? Your, your shirt right now, I don't just read books, I write them. You mentioned you're, you're a writer, you're volunteering, you're. You are doing some fun things too. What was that process?

B (17:06)

Right?

A (17:07)

Like, were there any aha. Moments along the way that you said, oh, this is, this is what?

B (17:13)

That's kind of a fun story. So I started. I've always loved fantasy type books. You know, think of the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, that kind of stuff. But being working, you don't get a lot of time to read. And so, I mean, I did do some, but not enough. But I had a love for it. So when I retired, I thought, well, I was in this first year, I was trying to figure out what the heck I was going to do. I said, well, I'll just start writing something, you know, I didn't even if I'm just doing it for myself and I just throw it away. So I did, I started writing for the first year or so and then last year I was working at, at the hospital and I left for lunch, you know, went to a restaurant and there was, they were really busy and so there was a line and there was a lady in front of me, an older black lady that was in front of me and they said okay, well we can see you. And looked at me and said okay, It'll be about 15 minutes. I go okay, that's fine. She goes well, he can sit with me if you. If it's okay, sure. So we sat there and talked and it turns out she was. Did a similar type work to I did, you know, when she first started out, which I thought was amazing because you think back in the early 80s having a female and a black lady, really weird in the sci, in these hard sciences, especially in the software engineering thing. So she was really unique in that respective. So I really appreciated that. So we talked and had a lot of fun with that. And then I said okay, well you're not doing that now. I said I'm retired, what about you? She said she was. I said so what are you doing now? She goes well actually I have my own publishing company. And I went what? How did that. So we kind of. She talked, told me that story, how that came about. She always had a love of writing and all that kind of thing. And so I thought oh great, I know I'm not ready for this. And I said well, I hate to say this but I'm actually writing the book. She's oh well, send it to me, I'd love to read it. And I, I don't know, but I went home and then just. I don't know why I did it, but I sent it to her and I describe it as handing your baby to a stranger. You know, I knew this lady for actually we sat there and talked for two hours but I sent it to her and she really enjoyed it. And so I'm using her now as my editor. She's helping me write. She. I've done some training with her and I'm hopefully going to publish that book next, early next year. But in the meantime I was wondering what I'm going to do. So I ended up writing another book that I just published in August. So that was really fun. And it's one about my childhood. My childhood and my brothers contribute a couple of stories My mom contributed a couple of stories and so it's kind of a family project and so that was a lot of fun. So I'm doing that and going out and hawking those and trying to get it sold now. So anyway, so that's what I'm doing now and doing that I didn't realize. And I'm sure you know this too. You go in there with the love of something of writing and all that stuff. Then there's the whole business side. If business is completely different than writing or anything else I've done in my history. So there's so much learning that has to be done. You know, what does a schedule C. Heck, I don't know what that is. You know, I've never had to do that before. I was just a W2 employee. So there's a lot of learning associated with that. So that's fun. It's challenging, but it's fun because it's learning and forcing me to do something. So that's what I've been. So this, that's what this last year has mostly been about business stuff and finishing up that. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. And I've already got laid out my business plan figuring out what I'm going to do for the next few years. So that's kind of fun. You know, it's challenging and scary all at the same time. But it's, you know, but it gave me a new challenge to work on and it's helping me one get that story out, but it's also helping the world. So you know, the book is about my childhood and my brothers and I. But after I finish, I go, you know, this childhood is a lot different than my grandkids childhood. That's interesting. And so, you know, I gave books to my kids and stuff that'll be a documentation that we can talk about it. I thought that's fine or fun.

A (22:07)

Yeah, I. I love all that. And a couple lessons I want to pull out of. That one is just the. The first one is the power of serendipity of putting yourself out there, having lunch with a total stranger. Good things happen when you're willing to go outside of your comfort zone and you meet wonderful people who are also doing wonderful things, who also have a unique story. So I think that's a great lesson for people to take away. The. The second gem is exactly. You said something. It's been challenging, it's been hard to do this. And anytime you do something worthwhile that does add purpose to your life, there's an element of challenge to it. And I think that sometimes people think that retirement is just a chance to relax and not push yourself. Whereas if you can find challenges that are worth pursuing, that's where a lot of the fulfillment comes.

B (22:55)

Yeah, you figure out where you want to go, and then, yeah, there will be challenges. You know, if you, you know, Ari talks about, you know, his. His soccer stuff. Well, I'm sure every day is not fun out there, working hard, running all that stuff, but it achieves the goal that he wants. And so you work through that and make things better.

A (23:15)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm curious. No. So you're a storyteller at heart. You have one book published, or in the process, you're working on another one. You mentioned your childhood. How do you think your experiences growing up shaped even the challenges in retirement of needing a purpose, needing a goal, needing something to work towards? Is that something that's inherent in you or is that based upon some experience or the way that you grew up?

B (23:41)

Well, I've always had a. Be driven to be. To achieve goals, and so you have to kind of figure out what the goals are. Of course, you know. You know, when I went to college, I knew what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a software engineer. And so when I looked at all a lot of my friends at college, you know, they. Their goal was to go there and have fun. Mine was to get the degree so that I could go do what I want to do, you know. So I made it in through my college as an engineer in four and a half years when I basically took two semesters off to make some money to pay for college. So I did it very fast. But I see other people, you know, they're two years in and they're still changing their majors. Well, that was kind of. That's not the way I am. I have to pick a goal and have to go for it. So that was kind of it. So that was kind of worried about not having the goals and retirement. Turns out that serendipitous. I call it Providence meeting. This lady says, oh, now I have a goal and I have some. I have a cheerleader, you know, to help me on, and someone who's been through the. Through this and how can she can help me through some of these. These sticky Wiggits, you know, And I've been living on YouTube, trying to learn all these business things, getting books and digesting books on how do I do a balance sheet and how do I. All those kind of things. So knowing what I want to do, then it says, okay, well, how do I get the skills to do that kind of thing? And so that's what drives me to learn some more. And learning is fun. It's challenging, but it's fun. You know, I'm a better person, I'm a different person than I was a year ago. So.

A (25:33)

I love it. One thing I like to think about is too often there's this sense of, okay, if you, you can break down life between retirement years and pre retirement years with, like, retirement as the defining factor in the middle of it. And to some extent that makes sense, but really all there is is life. It just so happens that prior to retirement, a lot of that life is in some ways decided for you, what your priorities are, what you need to focus on, what you should spend your time doing.

B (26:00)

Right?

A (26:00)

That being said, looking back now four years into this, does, does any part of you think, man, if I had started writing earlier, if I started trying to find who am I outside of being a. A great software engineer earlier, were there things that you feel as if you could have done, or was life so busy it would have been difficult to start doing those things before you did?

B (26:20)

It probably would have been challenging, but there are probably good ways to do it. When I talk to my friends who are still working now that are comparable age, I. What I'm doing now is, I'm encouraging what I'm calling practicing retirement and where we work or where I worked, you know, if you drop to 24 hours, yeah, you get less of a paycheck, but you, you still get your full benefits. And so if you could drop down that or drop to 30 hours, you know, whatever the number, then you have that extra time to do this expiration. And it's not a cliff like, like it was for me. I think it would, it would be easier. And I wish I would have done that. I didn't really think about that at the time. But yeah, dropping down to 30 hours would have been much more beneficial, or 24 hours or whatever I think would have been beneficial in my case.

A (27:14)

What do you think the biggest benefit? Practically speaking? What would you have done had you, say, gone 30 hours for a year or two before fully retiring? What would you have figured out?

B (27:25)

Well, I think it would have forced me to have to figure out what to do with all that extra time, just like I had to do that first year, except that I would have had the security of a paycheck and I wouldn't have had to do. I would have still had been getting some fulfillment at work. But then I would also had it on the outside. I don't know. Maybe getting thrown into the fire was what is needed for me. I don't know. But you know, it might have been a little bit easier transition. I'm not sure that everything would have happened exactly the same way. It's hard to know without living both ways. But it's working for me now. And it was just. And in the big scheme, is one year of self doubt really that bad? Okay, probably not. You know, it caused me to have to learn some things and grow.

A (28:13)

Yeah.

B (28:15)

So that's probably not a bad thing. It's just a little painful. That's okay.

A (28:20)

A painful year in exchange for a stronger retirement going forward. I am curious. So what was the turning point? So right now it seems like you got a lot of good things going. You are able to do the fun stuff like the cruising, but you're also publishing a book. You're also learning new things like the business side of that. You're also volunteering. You're also a grandfather. So what was the turning point where it stopped feeling kind of empty and purposeless to okay, I'm actually finding my new sense of identity.

B (28:48)

One thing's just trying to find what the different things are. Like I said, I live in a retirement community, so there's a lot of people similar to me around. That's really helpful. That actually helped me retire earlier because I got out of my house, big house with one person and I don't need all of that. And I don't like doing yard work and all that stuff, so. So I moved into a smaller place which reduced my expenses, which made things easier so I could retire quicker. The place I live in now is all paid for, so, you know, that stress is gone. I just have my HOA stuff. So my expenses are really low. So, you know, the financial stuff I'm not worried about. I've got enough money, I'll be able to live and I'll be able to give some stuff to my kids. So now with all that out of the way, what do I do? So like I said, do the volunteer work. I've got a group of friends, we go out every weekend. You know, have a standing dinner date on Fridays. So I'm gonna go do that tonight and then I'm doing cruising and then just other trying to. I'm much more social than I was while I was working because I didn't have time to be social while I was working. So that's kind of a new exploration for me. You know, we've also started, you know, it's a retirement community, so everybody's coming back. Everyone comes to Arizona during the winter because it's cold in Michigan. So all that's starting up. So on Mondays, I go and I'm singing in a show choir. We do a big concert in. In March before everybody leaves. So that's just starting up. So that's another activity that he's just starting. So getting more engaged in that. So you meet a lot of people, make a lot of friends, so just kind of finding out what your thing is. They do a lot of different things. You know, there's people that do pickleball and people that do bocce ball. There's whatever your thing is, they have a lot of different experiences here. You just kind of pick and choose what you want to do. So, yeah, it's more social than it was while I was working.

A (30:54)

It's more social. And another lesson that I would pull out of this for people watching is that, you know, people talk about the general phases of retirement. Dr. Riley Moyns, I think, is the one that kind of coins from this, is that when you first do retire, there's a little bit of that vacation, that honeymoon phase. Maybe you felt that, maybe you didn't, of, oh, no more deadlines, no more waking up early. That might last a few weeks, that might last a few years. That typically fades after that. There is, you know, phase two is that sense of loss, that loss of identity, that loss of structure, that loss of coworkers and the interactions there. And that's where people struggle and people risk staying there indefinitely until they move to step three, which is just the try new things. You don't know what's going to stick. You don't know what's going to work. But put yourself out there because phase four is that sense of, okay, renewed purpose, renewed energy, or renewed enthusiasm for what you can do. And typically is something that's speaking to your creative interest and. Or some sense of giving back, whether that's your church, whether that's a charity, whether that's volunteering, whatever the case might be. So there's that. That traditional arch that most people kind of follow there. But what people maybe don't take into account is the importance of environment. Like, you being in that retirement community put you in an environment where you constantly saw people doing new things, trying new things, maybe pulling you into things. I know the book thing was not because of retirement community, but that environment of being with someone that was doing something you are aligned with living next to people who are saying, hey, come be part of the choir, come do dinner, come watch football, Whatever the case is, put yourself in an environment where the behavior you want to engage in is easy, versus if you lived in the middle of the woods, 30 miles away from the closest neighborhood. There's probably not the same people pulling you to do things. Now, maybe that's your thing, but it's not going to be the same thing as what you have.

B (32:55)

Exactly. And I. Retirement community, I never wanted to be one of these places, but when I got to that place, I, I saw some of the wisdom and some of the attraction with it. I mean, there's still some negatives associated with. But there was where I lived before, you know, I didn't know my neighbors and everybody was off doing their stuff. Well, now I know all of my neighbors. You know, when you see something happen, you know, in retirement community, obviously there's a lot more medical issues. You see the fire truck on the thing, it's much more distressing because, oh, that's probably one of my friends, what's going on, you know, so we connect to each other. So that's been the social stuff. I didn't anticipate that. That was just a nice benefit. So I mostly moved in here. It was a little more, it was a little less expensive, but I gained so much more than that. So, yeah, my mom had been actually moved into the same park during COVID because where she was, she was really active in her choir down there. But of course nobody could talk to anybody. So you, and you certainly couldn't do a community event because, oh, you know, everybody was going to die if everyone got together. So luckily I, I talked her and she moved up here and now she lives 12 houses down for me. So we do a lot of stuff together, you know, cruising. Actually she's on a cruise this week, but normally we cruise together and it's just something fun to do. And she's a very active 85 year old. But last year she fell and broke her hip and she said, can you come over and help me? And I. And within five minutes I was there and just helping her through that first year of that, you know, where she could hardly walk. She was in all this pain. She had to go therapy. She's doing great now. She actually had to end up having two surgeries because the first one failed. So. But being close, that was really helpful. You know, if I, if she lived on the other side of the country, that would have, would have been very stressful. But Being able to be there. And while it wasn't easy, at least I was able to help her through that. So there are benefits?

A (35:11)

There are absolutely benefits. I love that. Well, Jim, as we wrap up, a lot of people, as you and I were talking about before we. We hit record, they get the financial piece dialed in. They prepare. They think that retirement's a math problem. But once they have the math figured out, they realize there's a. There's the psychological piece, there's the emotional piece of what's actually on the other side. And that's where a lot of the fears come in. That's what prevents most people from making the decision. If you could speak to that person and give them any advice that you learned through personal experience or conversations with others, what would you tell them as they're preparing for that transition into retirement?

B (35:44)

Well, one, it. Don't fear it. It's just the different chapter in your life and each chapter has its own challenges and stuff, but you'll get through it. You just. But just seek out opportunities to expand in your new role. You don't have kids. You have to raise anymore. What can you do? Help out. You know, like you said, charities or churches or volunteering. It's what I do. And maybe you can find a new thing. For me, it was writing, so that gives me a job. You know, I don't really need the money for that. Like I said I was. I'm okay with the way I am, but it's kind of nice to. Oh seeing when I'm. I see someone buys my book on Amazon, you know, it's. It's great. So it gives me a fulfillment there. It gives me another boost to work on the next book. So I don't know how long I'll write, but I'm trying to. My. This business I'm trying to build so that it'll outlive me. So. One of my daughters is actually writing a book now too. So I'm encouraging her and hopefully I can give her some pointers along the way too. So just find something outside of yourself to. To reach out and do and find and expand your. So if you're like me, social wasn't your thing throughout all these years. Expand your social network. It'll help. So very cool.

A (37:14)

For those listening that might be interested. Jim, what's the name of the book? If they're looking online.

B (37:18)

Oh, I'll even show you a picture of my book. It's called Growing Up Our Childhood Survival Guide. So James Selby is. That's who I Am Growing up our childhood survival guide. So there's a lot of stories in here. And I tell the story that the reason I got the way I got the idea was my dad passed away 10 years ago, Thanksgiving, this year. So when we went to the funeral, you know, you did the normal funeral stuff. Oh, he did this, you know, blah, blah, blah. But at the end, everyone got up to talk and everyone told stories. And all the stories were hilarious. I mean, and too many of them were life and death kind of things. But they're. Thankfully, they were hilarious because we all lived through them. But those are the kind of stories on there, you know, like, the first story is about dad and I in the boat, and the boat sank while mom was on the shore watching the boat turn over, and dad, you got trapped. That's funny now. It wasn't as funny then, but those are the kind of stories, you know, and it was great. My brothers contributed a couple of stories. My mom did a couple of stories. And so it's just a fun read. And each chapter is of its own. So it, you know, it's real easy read. So I love it. Well, growing up, I wasn't planning.

A (38:49)

No, it's. It's great. I. I'm glad that you said that. I'm glad that you shared that. I think some people want to write a book. Some people. Some people want to make a movie, Some people want to build something with their hands, some people want to spend time. Everyone has different things in the search to find what that thing is for you is maybe the thing that.

B (39:07)

Right.

A (39:08)

Makes or Breaks your retirement.

B (39:10)

Exactly. Exactly.

A (39:12)

Well, very good. Well, Jim, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Retirement Reality and sharing your experience and stories. I've gotten a lot. I know the audience says, too. Thank you for coming on.

B (39:22)

Well, great. Thanks. It was a lot of fun.