FIREWALL WITH LANCE WALLNAU - NOVEMBER 15TH, 2025

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Firewall with Lance Wallnau – November 15, 2025

Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Lance Wallnau
Date: November 15, 2025
Featured Guests: Steve Deace, Che Ahn

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Episode Overview

This episode of Firewall dives into the crossroads of faith, American politics, generational challenges, and the current fragmentation in the conservative movement. Host Lance Wallnau is joined in the first half by Blaze Media’s Steve Deace, who delivers a sweeping, faith-driven critique of the American right—addressing recent factionalism after Charlie Kirk's assassination and the urgent need for clear, values-driven leadership. The second half features Che Ahn, pastor and gubernatorial candidate in California, describing his legal battle against Governor Newsom’s pandemic policies and outlining his vision for a faith-informed grassroots revival in the state’s politics.

Throughout, the episode addresses the spiritual and cultural crises facing the nation, the generational rift in both secular and faith communities, leadership voids, and the unique challenges in states like California.

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Main Themes

• The post-Charlie Kirk era and fragmentation on the American right
• The role of faith, particularly evangelical Christianity, in politics and coalition-building
• The generational struggle for meaning, economic stability, and cultural identity
• The battle over California—its woke policies, faith suppression, crime, and economic management
• Reviving civic engagement and Christian influence in public life

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. The State of Conservative Coalitions Post-Charlie Kirk

[03:26–09:22]

• Steve Deace reflects on how Charlie Kirk's assassination exposed internal fractures within conservative circles, noting Kirk’s unique skill as a coalition builder and the observable spiritual void since his absence.
• Deace credits Donald Trump as a “clarifying force” in American life, stating, "I've just never seen one person provoke so many people to tell us who they really are than Donald Trump. I don't see how that's a natural explanation for that. I think that is a supernatural phenomenon." (05:38)
• Discussion on the “circular firing squad” now plaguing right-wing media and activism, with infighting overtaking the external political battle:

  "In the absence of Charlie to control the fire, everybody trained their guns on each other and started a circular firing [squad]." – Lance Wallnau (10:16)

• Deace urges a shift from “endlessly questioning” to seeking actionable answers rooted in faith, referencing Jesus’ declaration before Pilate to "testify to the truth." (07:50)

2. The Importance of Faith-based Leadership & the Kirk Legacy

[09:22–13:32]

• Discussion of Kirk’s coalition-building: balancing various constituencies, assessing their usefulness, and maintaining open lines. Kirk’s absence has led to increased infighting, particularly on issues like evangelical support for Israel.
• Notable reflection on leadership after Kirk:

  "Maybe Trump has to have a private phone call. If we don’t sort this out fast, the movement that was begun with MAGA... will not be together for midterms." – Lance Wallnau (12:50)

3. The Role of J.D. Vance & Generational Grievances

[13:32–15:31]

• Deace identifies J.D. Vance as a possible heir to Kirk’s coalition-building mantle, citing his generational understanding and ability to speak to the frustrations of young men.
• Deace:

  "Our young men, particularly our young white men, frankly, have a lot to be justifiably complaining about, given the mess in their laps... No other generation has faced anything like that since the industrial Revolution." (14:30)

4. Engaging the Next Generation & Economic Realities

[17:47–22:02]

• Wallnau and Deace stress that for conservative policies to attract younger voters, especially under-30s, they must address tangible economic issues—affordable housing, living wages, and hope in the American dream—not just culture wars or border issues.
• Wallnau succinctly frames the challenge:

  "This isn’t about the border now... This is about the ability of young people to have confidence in the American system." (18:10)

5. The Iowa Example: Faith, Politics, and False Narratives

[22:02–23:20]

• Deace discusses Iowa’s political dynamics, emphasizing the need for candidates who can effectively counter progressives’ co-optation of religious language.

  “Rob Sand is going to literally stand up there and say Jesus was a socialist... He is trying to coerce and co-opt our own language and use it against us.” (22:30)

6. Christian Nationalism & Using Faith in the Public Square

[23:20–25:09]

• Responding to critiques that Turning Point USA became “too evangelical,” Wallnau and Deace push for a clear Christian worldview’s public influence, insisting that “Christian nationalism” is a pejorative label misused to marginalize believers’ societal and civic engagement.

  "Christianity is not the endless asking of questions, it's the ceaseless seeking of answers." – Steve Deace (07:09)

7. Spiritual “Cosmic Clarifiers” in Recent History

[26:31–29:03]

• Deace introduces the term "cosmic clarifiers" to describe events like Covid, the George Floyd riots, and Kirk’s assassination as spiritually significant moments exposing true motives and character in both society and the church.
• He explains how God typically works around established but failed religious structures, drawing comparisons to biblical narratives and noting the rise of new parachurch organizations outside traditional institutions.

  "God always goes around the traditional religious structure that failed the previous generation." – Steve Deace (28:00)

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8. Che Ahn: From Lawsuits Against Newsom to Running for Governor

[34:40–41:52]

• Che Ahn shares his story of defying California’s church lockdowns, leading a coalition of 145 pastors in a successful Supreme Court case against Governor Newsom for violating First Amendment rights.
• Ahn describes discrimination against churches, saying:

  "Abortion clinics are essential. Marijuana dispensaries are essential. ...But the churches were not." (35:26)

• He outlines the legal threats faced—from jail time to millions in fines—framing them as Marxist tactics to silence faith leaders.

9. California’s Woke Drift: Gerrymandering, Crime, and Homelessness

[41:01–47:19]

• Discussion on California’s "Marxist" legislative maneuvers, particularly gerrymandering to preserve Democrat supermajorities and diminish conservative influence.
• Ahn notes the paradox of rising crime, open drug use, and stores fleeing cities, while state authorities block faith-based solutions.
• He lists his policy priorities: enforcing existing crime laws, giving money to faith-based recovery programs, and restoring affordable energy and housing.

10. The Evangelical Vote: Pathways to Change

[43:03–44:59]

• Ahn believes awakening disengaged evangelicals is key to flipping California, noting that if all 6 million registered evangelicals voted, “we would win every single race.”

  "If the Christians just cared enough to vote...they could have a whole couple of years' worth of rebuke ability on the devil." – Lance Wallnau (44:28)

11. Specific Policy Solutions & the Homeless Crisis

[47:19–51:41]

• Ahn’s plan is to enforce laws for public safety, fund results-driven faith-based nonprofits for homeless recovery, and reverse energy policies that have driven costs up while increasing pollution through imports.

12. Differentiating Himself in the Gubernatorial Race

[55:03–56:33]

• Ahn distinguishes his campaign by signing the Family for Salt and Light statement, emphasizing his immigrant background and outreach to conservative Democrats and ethnic minorities.
• He frames his leadership style as both pastoral and populist.

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Notable Quotes

• "Christianity is not the endless asking of questions, it's the ceaseless seeking of answers." — Steve Deace (07:09)
• "All guns should have shifted on the madness on the left...And what happens, like almost in the absence of Charlie to control the fire, everybody trained their guns on each other and started a circular firing [squad]." — Lance Wallnau (10:16)
• "God always goes around the traditional religious structure that failed the previous generation." — Steve Deace (28:00)
• "Abortion clinics are essential...Marijuana dispensaries are essential...But the churches were not." — Che Ahn (35:26)
• "If the Christians just cared enough to vote...they could have a whole couple of years' worth of rebuke ability on the devil." — Lance Wallnau (44:28)
• "It is the economy, stupid. You know, we need to have California affordable again." — Che Ahn (54:47)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [03:26–09:22] – Deace’s overview of post-Kirk conservative fragmentation and the spiritual consequences
• [13:32–15:31] – Discussion of J.D. Vance as a leader for a new generation
• [17:47–19:31] – The economic issues at the core of the young male vote
• [22:02–23:20] – Faith and politics in Iowa's upcoming elections
• [26:31–29:03] – Deace on “cosmic clarifiers” and God working around failed structures
• [34:40–41:52] – Che Ahn’s recounting of his legal battle and analysis of California politics
• [43:03–44:59] – The impact of inactive evangelical voters in California
• [47:19–51:41] – Ahn’s proposals for crime, homelessness, energy, and faith-based reforms
• [55:03–56:33] – Ahn differentiates himself among governor candidates

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Tone and Language

• Candid, faith-centered, and at times confrontational
• Relies on vivid biblical analogies and American political history
• Emphasis on urgent action, spiritual clarity, and building effective coalitions
• Deep concern over cultural drift, political infighting, and generational disillusionment

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Conclusion

In this episode, the host and guests paint a picture of an American right in crisis, but with hope for renewal through faith, generational engagement, and courageous, clear-headed leadership. The passing of Charlie Kirk is both a tragedy and a clarion call for conservative coalition-building. Che Ahn exemplifies the kind of leader aiming to translate spiritual awakening into political transformation, especially in hostile territory like California.

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Guests’ Socials:

• Steve Deace: @SteveDeaceShow on X
• Che Ahn: che4ca.com; Instagram & Facebook at Che Ahn

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Transcript

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[Lance Wallnau]

So many of you are already familiar with Steve Dase, the Steve Dase show on Blaze Media Sports Radio and who in Des Moines, Iowa, then pivot into political talk for obvious reasons, he's got a really, I'd say a jeweler's eye. Like William Buckley had a book once, the Jeweler's Eye. He's got a jeweler's eye for speaking critically to cultural issues, politics and speaks with a faith based advocacy. But what's kind of curious, he's a best selling author, Rules for patriots in 2014 and the liberal war on transparency in 2018. But for those of you that are seven mountain aficionados, he also produced the movie Nefarious, which my daughter was involved with promoting in 2023, and that explores the demonic influence. The demonic influence through a Christian lens. But you could see it virtually in a whole lot of areas other than just Hollywood right now. So I want to welcome Steve Dase. Welcome to the show I got today. I'm so glad you're here.

[Steve Deace]

Good to see you, brother. Thank you.

[Lance Wallnau]

All right. Now, what's percolating on the top of your list? You're doing Blaze reporting. You're covering, are you covering the shutdown? Are you covering the election results? What's your audience resonating with?

[Steve Deace]

I think the answer to all those questions is yes. And you know, Lance, I think that there have been a series of divine and providential clarifications over the last five years. And I and maybe even over the last 10 years. And I think a lot of God's people have prayed and wondered how much longer are we going to let this continue to suffer, to slouch to Gomorrah, to quote the late great Robert Bork, And I think over the last 10 years you have seen, I think, the Lord act. And I think that there's been a series of events. I think Donald Trump is the most clarifying force in American history. I've just never Seen one person provoke so many people to tell us who they really are than Donald Trump. And I just, I don't see how that's a natural explanation for that. I think that is a supernatural phenomenon. And then I think Covid, and especially what it did to the church and then accompanied by the false church, that spirit of the AIDS church, exemplified by the summer of Floyd that exact same year. And then I think the aftermath of my buddy Charlie Kirk's martyring and I think in all these events you're seeing people kind of reveal themselves for better or for worse, who they really are. And I think you're watching the master gardener kind of prune his tree, so to speak. And I think we've got to trim some fat, you know, and I think the church has to get smaller before it gets better. We've had an entire generation of Hawaiian shirt, sweater, vest, you know, skinny jean. Christianity and discipleship was not taken seriously. And I think that the Lord is readying his church for war. And I think, you know, there's got to be some subtraction before there's multiplication. And I think we're watching all of that now. And when I, when I look at the right, when I look at our side, I think there is a choice, a generational choice before us. Lance, if you look at what's happened in Western Europe after the church basically abrogated from the public square a generation ago, and the right now in Western Europe is very reactionary, almost like a self retardation of reactionaryism to the point that it can't get elected anywhere. The so called righty parties are all just functions of a unibrow. There's no agency, they can't vote themselves out of the mess that they're in. And I think this is the choice before our side right now. And that is, are we gonna see Charlie Kirk revival or reactionary retardation where we just make ourselves so reactionary to absolutely everything that we can't win elections on any level whatsoever, we can't win any kind of critical mass of normie voters. We become an epistemological black hole where. Well, I mean, I've got the real conspiracy of the conspiracy of the conspiracy of the conspiracy. And I say this as someone that I question narratives a lot. I wrote a number one best selling book questioning the entire scamdemic narrative. But I think it's important for God's people, Lance, to remember this. Christianity is not the endless asking of questions, it is the ceaseless seeking of answers. We are heading into Christmas season Where the king of the universe so wanted to be known, he left heaven and put himself in the most vulnerable form he could as a human being. The truth ask, seek, knock. The truth wants to be known. The heavens declare the glory of God. God came to us in the form of a human being. He. He was with us, Emmanuel. All right. He put his spirit now in us. All right. The hope of glory, Christ in us. And I think this is the choice we now have, which is we. It's not about questioning everything as much as it is finding answers. Jesus said to Pilate, for this reason, I came into the world to testify to the truth. And so are we going to seek truth? Are we going to take our skepticism and let it fund and, you know, sort of inspire the biggest zeal for truth we've seen in a generation? Or we get to let it retard us? So we just sit around here and just say things that are the absolute dumbest thing, so easily deconstructed all the time. Because to have found the truth means you've somehow become some kind of neocon or sellout. And I think that's the choice before us. And. And I think it's. No, you know, Charlie was the best of us. I think. I really. I mean, he really was apostolic in his giftedness. And I think people are now seeing in the last few weeks how much of this reactionary retardation he actually holding back. And I don't think it's any. It's any coincidence that it has just surged to the forefront in the last two months since his murder.

[Lance Wallnau]

So you got that. Listen, man, you're like a fire hose. I love. I made several notes, though, while you were talking. So I'm going to go back to earlier comments you made that I didn't want to interrupt you to say, but I'm thinking going back, you ended on Charlie. So let me. Let me start with that. I said, when he died, I said, Ben Shapiro made the comment. He said, if you don't understand that Charlie was a coalition builder, that was the art form that Ben Shapiro saw. Then I thought about it. Well, he could hit, you know, David Rubin, and he has the gay conservative contingency over here. And then he's got the, you know, the Maha movement people over here and the independents over there. And then you were talking about the. You'll have to explain this later. What a normie voter is. Some of my people don't know that. But anyway, he could take this broad constellation of relationships, and he did not have Candace Owens at any of the Amerifests. And he didn't have her on his radio show. But he kept. He kept enough of a text thread with everybody so that everybody knew he loved them and he supported them. But he evaluated whether or not they were healthy and useful to the coalition he was building. And you were either invited in or invited out to speak based on that. But what I noticed is the moment that he died, my mind went to the Book of Acts where Paul was in Ephesus. And he said, I know that after my departure shall fierce wolves break in among you, and even from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things in order to draw away the disciples after themselves. That word in Greek for speaking to perverse things means focusing on some nuance of theology or doctrine that will distinguish yourself from each other, to fragment an audience, to follow you. You couldn't describe more perfectly what happened in the aftermath. And spiritually what happened after Charlie's assassination was all guns should have shifted on the madness on the left that manifests itself in all of the extremism of the violence, from antifa to the trans indoctrination to the university cauldron of indoctrination. In other words, the guns were set there. And what happens, like almost in the absence of Charlie to control the fire, everybody trained their guns on each other and started a circular firing swaddle. And so you've got Candace, I'll dismiss for the moment because I got to deal with her because she's talking about me. So she's a separate subject. But Tucker and Bannon and Levin and Shapiro, all of these guys fighting with each other. And by the way, anti Semitism is at the root of it, the issue of Israel. If you could have asked an evangelical for a more poignant confirmation. We're in the last days. Let Israel be the subject that divides a move of God in the United States after they fight a survival campaign for four years. So I look at this and I go, that's demonic. But if we don't settle this, Steve, I don't know who's got the voice of the adult in the room. Maybe Trump has to have a private phone call if we don't sort this out fast. The movement that was begun with Maga, with Trump, that Charlie helped to coalition together, will not be together for midterms. And the other point I was gonna make is I was laughing cuz you said Donald Trump is that force of nature like Haley's Comet that comes by every so often. The problem with him is he is the singular factor that gets the vote out. On the left, they'll be mobilized by their hatred of Trump, but on the right, if he's not on the ticket, he's not mobilizing. And the aha that I got after the election results and I didn't have it the night, you know, like we get pulled on TV to comment on stuff. And I didn't process it all that night cuz the gap was so big in the turnout that it wasn't until the next day that I said what actually happened is that the libertarian, the Hispanic male, the African American male, all those people that made up that movement for Trump, including Maha and the independents, they weren't voting for Republicans. This is a serious problem in midterms, am I right?

[Steve Deace]

100%, you are correct. And it's almost like the enemy knew exactly where to hit us with Charlie's murder. And so it's going to take a consortium of people that are going to be, that are going to have to now step into that void with various sectors of skill and expertise to hold it together. I will tell you who I believe is a very key person in all of this and that is Vice President J.D. vance. And the reason why is, number one, it's obvious he's the Vice President. As the crown prince of maga, it is obvious that, and I mean, I just heard this, I'll say this publicly now, I just heard this from Charlie privately, right to my face, all right, that people like him and Don Jr. And Tucker lobbied the president to make him the VP with the expressed intent of leaving an heir apparent. And I had a conversation a few months ago with Newt Gingrich and he said that the greatest political regret of his career on the right is that Ronald Reagan did not make Jack Kemp his nominee for VP in 1980, but tried a unity ticket with the Bushes instead. And that left Reagan without an ideological error. And so the minute that his time was done, he stepped aside and based in the mainstream Republican Party of the past, took right back over. And so he was hopeful that J.D. vance would be the correction of that mistake. I think that Vance as a millennial, understands the lamentation of our young men. Our young men, particularly our young white men, frankly, have a lot to be justifiably complaining about, given the mess in their laps. And I, I say this. I've got a young man in my home. I'm in the process of launching my 18 year old son out into the world. He's learning right now that he's going to have to make 30, $35,000 a year right out of high school in Des Moines, Iowa to get a decent apartment in a car he's not embarrassed to pick a girl up in for a date. That's ridiculous. And no other generation has faced anything like that since the industrial Revolution. And so we've got to figure out who can message and then and then like Charlie could and then push it into a constructive venue rather into the Koiper, Iowa incel venue.

[Lance Wallnau]

Steve, I gotta stop. You know how this works. I gotta do a quick station break for for real America's Voice. We'll be right back.

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[Lance Wallnau]

All right, we are back now. You said something right before the break about your son, $35,000 has to come in in order for him to have a decent car, to pick up a girl for a date and then have an apartment. And. Yeah, and Charlie, you know, Charlie's passion, it was so interesting because he had his finger on the pulse of the millennial vote. If you expect to get that 30 year old and younger vote that turning point's going after, you've got to get them affordable housing. The big issue for them is economics. And I'd say that he was so clear on that. And it's sad because he had the ear of Donald Trump and he could say, you're never going to, we're never going to win an election if we don't convince them that our policies are affecting them. This isn't about the border now. This isn't about pharmaceuticals. This isn't about entitlements. This is about the ability of young people to have confidence in the American system, to be able to provide for them. Or you're really subject to the anarchy of what's going on with the left now. Because their appeal is the system's rigged. And this is the other narrative that kind of intrigued me that Mondami in New York is taking the Bernie Sanders and AOC line, which I'm hearing from some essayists. It's similar to Trump's appeal in that they're speaking to the frustrations of the person out there that feels like they're not winning, like someone else is and its system is somehow rigged against them. And Trump kind of comes along and says, it is rigged, but I'm going to fix it. And then the socialist comes along and says, it's rigged and I'm on your side, I need your help. We better sort this thing out, don't you think? And talk to me about where are the elections for midterms we should be having on our radar.

[Steve Deace]

We have to understand moving forward, Lance, and New York City is, I think, the final confirmation of this, that elections now are rival missionary expeditions. They're not just about turning out voters. You have to speak to the soul. These economic issues speak to the soul. We're talking about not top marginal tax rates and how to spur on a new entrepreneurial class. We're talking about real quality life stuff. Can I actually find a girl and have a family and experience the American dream at a basic 101 level? And if I can't, then why in the world would I go ahead and take on all these other social stigmas like DEI and abortion and Rot to traineeism and everything else in the schools. And so that energy, all that male masculine energy in our young men has to go somewhere. And it will go somewhere, either constructively or destructively. And when you skip a generation in the pulpit of men collectively and a generation of fathers in the home collectively, figuratively or literally, there's a lot of young men that don't understand meekness, power, under control, what that stuff means. We need to earnestly disciple them. Charlie understood that we need to follow that example. And that's why I think, frankly, Vance is such a key figure in this, because I think he is the one person that has any remote shot of slipping into some of those vacated shoes of Charlie's. When you look at the elections coming up in midterms, we need candidates that are able to speak to the soul, that understand these are quality of life issues. So if I can be a little selfish, I look at my own home state of Iowa, governor candidate that I'm supporting at Adam Steen. And Adam talks about wanting to be the most pro trade skill manufacturing governor in America. But I love the way that he talks about it. It's not just, hey, these are real wages, but it's this quality of life stuff, hey, do I have an option other than I leave high school and I go get seven figures of loan debt and play Russian roulette with my soul? Am I gonna walk out of there as a gay race, communist or not? Right. But is there a future path beyond that? And I look at how Adam speaks to that former Assemblies of God minister. He was the CEO of our state, so he's run the state on a government level. He understands where all the bodies are buried. He speaks to these kinds of issues that are really at the heart of what kind of country and way of life are we gonna have. And we need candidates that are able to do that.

[Lance Wallnau]

All right, so he's in Iowa, right?

[Steve Deace]

Correct. Adam Steen.

[Lance Wallnau]

So, by the way, Iowa. So the Iowa caucus, that's gonna be a big deal, I guess, at the presidential election. And he's up during the midterms. That's a midterm vote we're doing.

[Steve Deace]

Yep. That's next year. We have a vacated seat for governor. And here's the thing. And your audience is gonna find this fascinating. So our state's become one of the reddest in the unions. Reddest in the union. We've had one Democrat able to win statewide. His name is Rob Sand. He's now running for governor. He won his state auditor. He bought that seat with money he married into, he's now running for governor. And if you look at Rob Sands socials, Lance, this is not a guy that is running away from faith. He's trying to co opt it. He. I mean, I. Rob sand is gonna literally stand up there and say Jesus was a socialist. And he's gonna say this to the people of Iowa in a debate. And if we just send up there some kind of technocratic Republican who just is nothing but a construct of consultant cliches, he's gonna walk out of there looking like a heretic in front of swing voters or normie voters. We need somebody who can correct, you know, like, frankly, like Christ, you know, saying to the enemy, correcting him. When he takes scriptures out of context. Rob sand is taking the scriptures out of context in his post on social media on a regular basis. He is trying to coerce and he's trying to co opt our own language and use it against us. It is so important that we now nominate candidates moving forward who have the right worldview and the ability to wield it. When you talk about Charlie's ability to build that coalition, it was an offshoot, Lance, of his worldview. He understood common grace, natural law. He understood all these things and he was able to apply it.

[Lance Wallnau]

Yeah, I'm, you know, as I said earlier before we did the show, I have to listen to. Candace has been targeting me yesterday. And part of her complaint is the Turning Point. Charlie became too evangelical.

[Steve Deace]

I thought it was too Mormon. It was too Mormon the other day. It's too evangelical now.

[Lance Wallnau]

It's too evangelical.

[Che Ahn]

Yeah.

[Lance Wallnau]

And so he was too much. And it wasn't like this early on. I mean, Turning Point wasn't always about this. I mean, the guy did start when he was 18. He's allowed to develop a worldview like Lincoln by the time he's 31. But I think what surprises me is that there would be an audience that would think that Christianity is just. Is only a religious thing that happens on Sunday. It actually is a worldview for prioritizing a moral universe where you're accountable to God and having a family and procreating and loving one another and then having meaningful work, that there's an order. There's kind of like a primacy in the universe of what's important.

[Steve Deace]

Yes.

[Lance Wallnau]

And Christians. What I want to break through and use this opportunity with Candace to smash and start to get across more powerfully is that this Christian nationalism is like nobody can define what it is. It was a label basically, to try to make People sound like extremists, racist or something. But actually, it was white Christian nationalism until David Harris and a bunch of my black MAGA buddies started embarrassing them, saying, I guess I'm a white Christian nationalist, but Christianity ought to be in the public. I think what Charlie did, that J.D. vance confessed. He said, I wasn't talking about Jesus up until two weeks ago. Well, I'm glad to see that he just said it, because everybody else is, evidently, that the Christian worldview is something which applies to the health of society. Am I right in that?

[Steve Deace]

100%. Unfortunately, we have spent a generation collectively in the church building brands and not the kingdom. We have, you know, skinny jeans, sweater vests, Hawaiian shirts, nicer than God, perpetually furrowed brows when we're not being nicer than God, saying things like, well, you know, I've got a very diverse, you know, congregation here that may not feel the same way about the issues. Why would you have a diverse congregation of people who don't believe in God's word? Why would that go unaddressed in any kind of church whatsoever? I mean. I mean that just. That's not a church. That's a social club with Bible verses out of context. And again, I can just say this, having had these conversations with Charlie privately on multiple occasions, this is one of the key drivers of everything he did. He was trying to build an apostolic ministry and parachurch organization to take the place of much of the church which had vacated the public square, particularly where men and young men were concerned for the last generation. And that is a space now that the rest of us have left to pick up the mic and follow in his footsteps and try to fill. If we win, the men will win the families. If you win the families, you'll win over a civilization. What will win them exactly? The message which is the application of the word of God that you just articulated a moment ago.

[Lance Wallnau]

All right, so when you look at the church's response, I think you said it was because I'm going to lose you in just a moment. You said it was going to be like Covid and the George Floyd riots and then Charlie in the aftermath. But what was it that you saw during COVID and the George Floyd riots that you. That. That made you say that these were, like, almost like spiritually significant. What did you call it? You know, points of inflection in the formation?

[Steve Deace]

Cosmic clarifiers.

[Lance Wallnau]

Yeah, cosmic clarifier of what?

[Steve Deace]

Ultimately, what field God is at work in. And one of the things you see throughout history, nothing good comes from Nazareth well, who would want fishermen for, you know, for apostles?

[Lance Wallnau]

The.

[Steve Deace]

The Hebrew of Hebrews. Former Christian persecutor, now becomes a Christian. But not just any Christian. He is now sent to evangelize the very gentiles that he viewed himself as better than. You see this all throughout the kingdom of God. That he uses the. The. The. You know, the. The. He uses the foolish things of this world that he is contrary to the world system. Christianity is a paradox in and of itself. Die to live, suffer to gain. You know, I mean, no other system, you know, advocates these things like the kingdom of God does. And I mean, just look at myself, all right? I'm a former mailroom clerk, porn addict, and now I've got one of the largest Christian media platforms in the United States of America. I couldn't even tell you how it happened. It just kind of happened almost against my will, if I'm being honest with you. All right? So this is not my life plan from 20 years ago, how it all turned out, all right? But this is how you can tell when God is at work. And the fact that the. He usually. And here's the other thing to always watch. God always goes around the traditional religious structure that failed the previous generation. Always goes around it every single time. And you're watching that now. You're watching. I've said to my buddy, Lucas Miles over at tpusa Faith, congratulations, brother, you're now head of the largest parachurch organization in the entire history of Christendom. All right? Lucas is from a modest sized church in South Bend, Indiana, and he's only been on the job for a couple of years. All right? But if you've been. If you spent 10 minutes with Lucas, you'd see this guy's heart is sold out to the gospel. That is exact. And that's why Charlie picked him, and that's exactly why God picked him. And you can see every single time God shames the structure that failed his people and goes around the religious structure that failed the previous generation, that happens every single time. That rhythm is in the scriptures repeatedly, old and New Testament and throughout church history as well.

[Lance Wallnau]

You know what simplified it for me was because I'm a seven mountain guy. That's what I'm accused of anyway. And I look at those mountains and I see this. I saw Charlie was the guy who was representing the church, but in order to get the family mountain, he went into the education mountain to go talk about Christian worldview to the students. And then he utilized that in order to get out the under 30 vote. For political purposes and fed his visibility in his organization by capitalizing on media, turning it into an artistic art form, taking debates, having billions of views on YouTube off his debates, and funded it off of business people that I know that underwrote the all seven mountains.

[Steve Deace]

He threatened apostolic giftedness. Lance.

[Lance Wallnau]

That's what you said, Apostolic. I said, he's so totally right. He went outside the church, representing the church. And now, truly, if we're going to do what we're called to do, we have to activate the parachurch in every one of those spheres to pick up the fallen baton. I'm out of time. Steve, we're gonna have to have you back again. We're just getting started. God. But how do people follow you, by the way? How do they get in touch with you?

[Steve Deace]

Easiest thing, just follow me on Twitter Tevedase show or X. I'm sorry, now I can't get used to that. Tevedaceow on X well, that's right.

[Lance Wallnau]

Well, you should feel sorry for me. Most of my followers are still on Facebook. That tells you about my aging demographic. All right, listen, we're doing all things political. You think that was interesting, wait till you talk to Che Ahn. The guy that I got coming up next is actually taking on that wicked governor's seat out in California. And who knows, maybe it's time that we saw God move in California. You're gonna not want to miss this. We'll be right back.

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[Lance Wallnau]

Well, a year ago, we had that moment when, oh boy, what a relief that was. The Trump train pulled into the station and history was being made right in front of our eyes. And after all the prayer, and I remember watching Charlie Kirk crying tears of relief because he knew, as some other of us did, that we're on lists, you know, about the Operation Arctic Frost. We were on lists of government attacks. They would have come after us with IRS documents and, you know, because we talk politics, but we're also preachers and they would have hit us. We were relieved and we were delighted that God moved. Now we've got a new political season. Looks like the left is pushing back with a vengeance like a coiled spring. All that great awakening and move of God we talk about in America, let's face it, it may be a move happening, but it's not resulting in a penetration in the electoral realm. And brothers and sisters, if we don't guard the government gate, all the gains will be short lived. So my guest right now, someone I've known for years and I've been friends with. So when he said that God was calling him to run for governor in California, well, I said, I know what a battle that's going to be. However, I want to do everything I can to introduce my audience to him. He could be called Dr. Cheon. He's got an earned doctorate. Could be called Pastor Cheon. He stood, he's built a strong church and a network of churches, but he's most affectionately known as Papa Che because he's like a dad to a whole lot of Christians. Welcome back on the show, actually, because you and I do flashpoint now.

[Che Ahn]

Thank you for having me. What an honor. What a blessing to be with you. It's amazing how this started with me having a dream about you and then I called you and then I Also remembered you said, I want you on my show as you're running. And so one thing led to another, and here we are.

[Lance Wallnau]

Well, here we are. So. But you, you know, you're not a stranger to the governor's mansion. The governor tried to lock you up. I want everyone to hear the story, because it's like, we forget this Governor Newsom, who's going to want to be president. This guy was shutting down churches, threatening them with fines if they went to church during his reign. The freedom of the tyranny over there. And then the pastors themselves would be sent to jail.

[Che Ahn]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And then we see how he just discriminated against the church. He said, abortion clinics are essential. They're open. Marijuana dispensaries are essential. They're open. A strip club in San Diego was essential for the armed forces. And he said that they're essential, but that the churches were not. And I saw that. And then when the George Floyd riots took place, he does a press conference and there was no social distancing. No one's wearing masks. They destroyed Fairfax. You talk about racism, was anti Semitic, and yet he commends them to. He says, you, First Amendment rights must be protected and God bless you. And I'm thinking, what about our First Amendment rights? So that was early in July. And I just said, you know what? We're going to open up and we're going to sue Governor Newsom because the seed was planted by Matt Staver, my attorney. Going back to the call days in 2000, when you say the call for.

[Lance Wallnau]

My audience, because we have.

[Che Ahn]

Okay, so the call. The Lord spoke to Lou Engel to gather young people after the promise keepers in 1997, gathered a million men. And he said, this is partial fulfillment of Malachi, chapter four, five and six. He's sending the prophet Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord. He's turning the hearts of the fathers to the children. But now we need a counterpart. We need to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers. That we could have either revival or a curse if we don't respond. And so the Lord spoke to him to mobilize young people. He asked me to be the organizer. So I became President CEO of Together. We've been together since 1982. So over 40 years that we've been running together. So that was natural. He's been my prophet. I'm his apostle. And so we put this together and we thought there would be around 100,000 people that would show up at 10 o' clock over 400,000. And this is the number the park police gave us. They knew how to measure the Washington D.C. mall and came up. It turned out to be the largest youth prayer gathering in the history of America. But we needed an attorney to cover us for liability and any other problems we would have for having a prayer gathering. So Matt Staver was our attorney, and I met him there, and he did pro bono. And he also said to me, if you sue Governor Newsom, we will cover you financially, but because there needs to be someone that takes a stand. And the reason why I called him was because we opened up and I was going to be in trouble with the law, and I wanted him to protect me. And he said, well, you know, if you sue Governor Newsom, they can't touch you while you're in litigation. Now, if you lose, then you're going to jail, but you have to take that risk. And so I said, well, let me pray about it. And it just took a week. I prayed about it. The Lord gave me a word from Joshua 1:9. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be discouraged, do not be afraid, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. And then with that word, I met with our pastors. I called the board of him. They said, we're all in. Not only that, but Matt said, if you really want to make an impact, have the other hi m pastors be part of the plaintiff. I got 145 pastors to sign up, and they said, we're all in. So there was a network like, you know, these prophets are not going to bow their knee to baal. They said, we're in. And so now I lost in the lower courts. I got a letter from the district attorney saying there's going to be a one year jail term for opening up. And they knew I just sued Governor Newsom, and that's their retaliation. As the classic Marxist, you know, cancel culture playbook, they want to silence me, to back off one year in jail, 4.5 million in fines, and then the last paragraph of the letter from the district attorney, we reserve the right to arrest your church members. Now, think about it, Lance. We're talking about, you know, citizens that pay their taxes. They don't have any criminal record. Meanwhile, Newsom's allowing, because of Proposition 47, all these drug dealers, drug addicts, rapists out of prison, and they want to arrest us. So we've come to Basically what Isaiah 5:20 says, Woe to those who call evil good, good, evil. And that's where our society is spend, especially in California. And so, by God's grace, we appealed to the Supreme Court and we won on February 5, 2021. And not only did we win 6, 3. I mean, think about it. John Roberts sided with us, and he normally doesn't go conservative, but he did with us because it was clear that Newsom had violated our First Amendment rights, the right to worship, the right to gather, the right to speak. And so we won a $1.3 million settlement and we gave it to, of course, our attorney because they were doing pro bono. And so Matt said that was the largest settlement we've ever received. And so we're glad that we were able to bless them. But that was the beginning of the pathway to take a stand in California with the woke ideology there. It really is like a Marxist state. And the totalitarian, I mean, just the proposition that we just had, the gerrymandering is another indicator. It's not based on constitution. We already have an independent commission that was said constitutionally. We bypassed that. And all of a sudden the legislators are now determining instead of we the people who's going to win. And he just wants to make sure we have a super majority of Republicans.

[Lance Wallnau]

So folks understand this, because not everybody that's in these things is informed on them. So after, theoretically, after Texas, because of the population we have, was redefined, five new districts, I guess, where Republicans could be voted in. The word was that California newsman said, oh, yeah, well, we'll do that too. But I just found out last night they've been working on this for two years. This wasn't a response to Texas. They were planning on doing this anyway. Right, because Newsom wants to get this because he wants to become the next president and bring the misery of California to the rest of the country. And so the Republicans in your state are around 40%, 43% of the state.

[Che Ahn]

Well, the Republicans as 25% of the state registered Republicans now, President Trump won 41% in 2024. Okay, so means that the Democrats and independents shifted over. And then we had 10 counties that went red, which is a great sign because I think people are tired of the totalitarian reign of Newsom and the super majority of Democrats in Sacramento.

[Lance Wallnau]

So think about it. Ten counties went red. But what Newsom is doing by, by setting aside that committee that was authorized to do this and said, forget you, we're just going to do it ourselves. He's actually going to shrink the representation then of the, what is it? The nine.

[Che Ahn]

Oh, it's amazing because the district lines already is just only 17% of the Republicans really have a voice now. So he's reducing that more. And so basically it is just a super majority, super, super majority of Democrats that will be represented. It's not a.

[Lance Wallnau]

So Jay, how do you win in California as a conservative, as a Republican with only 25% Republican voting?

[Che Ahn]

Okay, well, let me just say this is that there is a pathway because there are a lot of conservative believers who are just not engaged. They're so discouraged they throw in towels. So we have more evangelicals than any other state except for Texas. But unfortunately we have 12 million by the way, and 6 million that are registered. 3 million that are registered don't vote. And so my goal is to awaken the church. If we just got the 6 million registered to vote biblically, we would win every single race without the 6 million that are not registered. In other words, the last gubernatorial race, 8 million showed up totally. And so just imagine if 6 million were the Republicans, we would win that race and we would win all the state assembly. And so our goal is to really again pray for revival because revival begins with the church being awakened and we need to educate them. And that's why even on flashpoint last night they were advocating that we need to educate, educate. Basically the problem is that we have real bad theology. And the church in California, I got bad numbers.

[Lance Wallnau]

I didn't know that there were 8 million voters decided the last gubernatorial race. And we have 6 million evangelicals in.

[Che Ahn]

California that are registered, that are registered, but 3 million of them don't turn out and vote. So we just have.

[Lance Wallnau]

So if the Christians just cared enough to vote. Absolutely. It's like rebuking the devil. If they cared enough to rebuke the devil on one day with a ballot or with a vote, they could have a whole couple of years worth of rebuke ability on the devil.

[Che Ahn]

Yeah, well, part of it is the bad theology. They have a pre trib mid trip rapture and I believe in the rapture. I believe that Jesus is coming back and will be caught up with him when he does come. But I also believe that when he does come, he creates a new heaven, new earth. That's my position.

[Lance Wallnau]

All right, well listen, I'm going to have to take a quick break here because of of the syndicates I work with. We'll be right back.

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[Che Ahn]

And so we have to be tough on crime. I mean think about it. You can now go up to store with your calculator and buy steals. $950. It's still against the law, but it's just a misdemeanor. And they're not going to arrest you for a misdemeanor because the courts are over flooded with misdemeanor and felony charges. So and so people are just getting and so people like CVS is moving out of San Francisco. Nordstrom just moved out of San Francisco. It's not sustainable to have people just come in and steal. So you could carjack, you could steal your Mercedes Benz as just a misdemeanor. It's ridiculous. So what I want to do as governor is to really enforce Proposition 36, which passed 2024 is to make the misdemeanors a felony. It was passed by 70% of the Californians. But here's the problem Newsom is not giving $0.01 to it. It's not enforcing Proposition 36. I'm going to enforce it. And what we're going to do is I do believe that we have, I have a solution for the homeless situation, to do it with compassion. There are around 20% that are really needing help with housing. 80% of those are people who are drug addicts, drug pushers and mentally ill. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to give them an ultimatum that you go through treatment with a non profit faith based program. We have all these nonprofit organizations, but they're not, they don't get results because we're not allowed to preach the gospel. Like Dream center with my good friend Matthew Barnett. He doesn't take one penny from the government because he can't preach the gospel if he did. And so I'm going to say with our First Amendment rights, you have the freedom and I'm going to give you money to treat. Because they have a tremendous track record. There are organizations that have the data, the track record, a proven transformation of these homeless people. They're getting jobs, they're working, they're being productive. I'm going to give the money to them. Instead of failed government policy. We spend 5 billion, we have nothing to show for. We just see an increase every day. This is actually a crime because every day seven homeless people are dying on the streets. 365 a year. And so we're just talking about a culture of death that's being perpetuated. In California. We've had Proposition 1 that codified abortion to State Constitution 2023. We have the teenagers who are going through transition committing suicide at the alarming rate. And so the whole transgender ideology being shoved down kids throats. And we passed bills where like AB 1955 that teachers, even Christian teachers cannot not notify the parents that you got to watch out for. Your son wants to change his pronoun and he wants to go through transition. We can't even notify them by law. And so the parental rights have been taken away. And again, just recent bill AB495, that it's really legalized child custody from the parents, original parents, that anyone can just take the child. And we're talking about human trafficking is going to take place as a result of that. And it is. Human trafficking has tripled under Newsom's watch since some of the woke bills that he signed into law. I could talk more about that, but it's just a problem. It's a mess. And so we have to bring law and order. We have to bring safe communities back, affordable homes by reducing the energy prices by opening up the wells and producing petroleum once again.

[Lance Wallnau]

You have petroleum capacity.

[Che Ahn]

Oh my goodness. In one county alone, we have enough natural gas, gas and crude oil, which we need in California for the refineries to produce enough for our whole state. But we're importing 60% of our petroleum from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and other places like that because we don't want to be the ones that's polluting the air.

[Lance Wallnau]

They can, they can pollute the air.

[Che Ahn]

But not for us.

[Lance Wallnau]

But that air never shows up on your globe.

[Che Ahn]

Exactly. Newsom just wants a clean report card. I'm at a green environmentalist. And look what we've done in California. And yet the pollution that's happening, just unbelievable.

[Lance Wallnau]

It's like Venezuela crude will import it.

[Che Ahn]

It's hypocrisy. It's just total hypocrisy.

[Lance Wallnau]

So if people want to stay connected with you because you're really. This is a populist movement camp campaign and it's doing it with a faith based, hopefully a faith based support base. So what do they need to do?

[Che Ahn]

Well, they can go to che che number four for CA for California, che4ca and they could.com and they can look at my website. But I want them to realize that I am running for governor for all the people, not just the conservative religious right. I am a pastor over everyone in my church, Democrats, Republicans. I have people of every single background and I want to be the pastor and governor. That's why people call me Papa Che around the world. Because I've demonstrated being a father to the fatherless. And right now we live in an orphan state. It's just the young males especially, they're so emasculated. They just are staying home with their parents, smoking marijuana and just playing with their computer games. And I just want them to get out there. I want to empower them to get jobs. So we have so many regulations, it's hard to start a business. We have 400,000 regulations, the highest taxes. And so I'm going to reduce the regulations, I'm going to reduce the taxes, I'm going to encourage people to start because people don't realize I'm also a businessman. I've been a pastor for 46 years. But in 2010 I started my own S Corp and I'm making more money as a businessman than I'm able to turn in my salary, three times my salary back to the church and anyone who knows the books can attest to it. And I've been doing that for 15 years, Lance. So I want to apply the principles that I've learned in business and apply it to Sacramento because we're now $20 billion in deficit spending for this year alone. Here's the fourth richest economy and we're 20 billion in debt. And so we're going to get rid of the debt. We're going to. I'm going to doge everything. I'm going to audit the bullet train to nowhere. Think about it. We approved 40 billion in 2008. It's up to 100 billion now. And now one foot of track to.

[Lance Wallnau]

Show for all that money, all that California money. How can Newsom campaign?

[Che Ahn]

He can't. This is the thing. When the record goes out, I don't care what he thinks of himself. He's soif I could just say this, it's just blind ambition. And it's not about we the people, it's about him. And so he uses his position to campaign for 2028 election. That's what he's doing right now with Proposition 50. I mean, let's just be honest about that. So we've had politicians that are absolutely self absorbed, narcissistic. It's all about them. And it's not about me. It's about the peoples, we the people. It is a populist movement. I wanted to give empower people. So we have 35% of the middle class are now living in poverty. And I want to eradicate that. And so it is the economy, stupid. You know, we need to have California affordable again.

[Lance Wallnau]

I got like around 30 seconds left here, but I do want to talk about who else is running in California. What makes you different than them?

[Che Ahn]

Well, first of all, let me just say they're all wonderful people. I really mean that. You know, I met Steve Hilton, I met Sheriff Bianco. They really won what's best for California. But I'm the only one that signed the Family for Salt and Light statement, which is pro life, pro family, pro freedom, pro free market, pro Israel. They won't sign it. And this is not to cast a negative aspersion on them. They may have reasons. They think in California to win the Democrats over. They probably will lose if they signed it. But to me, I believe I win the conservative Democrats over because I'm an Asian immigrant. We have 51% of California are people of ethnic background. And I came when I was five years old legally, obviously with my parents. And we have lived the American dream. And I want to give that opportunity for every immigrant that's in California. We have over 200 different languages spoken just in Los Angeles alone. And so I feel my pathway, whereas all of them, and nothing against being white male, you know, I'm not into DEI by that, but I stand out to all of them. And the Democrats think that way. And so I think if they're going to look for a Democrat, I mean a Republican that's common sense oriented that want to restore parental rights. Again, 70% of Democratic moms want the parental rights to be restored and not the state to take over their kids. And so I feel like I have a pathway to convince them when the.

[Lance Wallnau]

You got to get the message out, folks.

[Che Ahn]

That's it.

[Lance Wallnau]

I'm one minute over. Remember [e-mail] and you can find, you can keep in touch with him and follow me. Are you on any social media also?

[Che Ahn]

Yes, my platforms, yes, they could check out my Instagram, my Facebook account, everything.

[Lance Wallnau]

All right. Well, thank you for being with us, Papa Che. And I can't believe where the time went. Boom. That was it. All right.

[Che Ahn]

I can't believe it either.

[Lance Wallnau]

We'll see you again in the next segment for Real America's Voice. And see you tomorrow for my main platform. God bless.

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[Che Ahn]

This is Jim.

[Steve Deace]

Hello.

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Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back.

[Steve Deace]

In April and now I have customers out the door.

[Che Ahn]

And this is Sarah. Hi.

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She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.

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Business is booming.

[Lance Wallnau]

That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

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Want to be like Jim and Sarah.

[Che Ahn]

It's easy.

[Colgate Advertiser]

All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising.com.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.