Human Events with Jack Posobiec, January 30th, 2026

Summary

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Human Events with Jack Posobiec – January 30, 2026

Podcast: Real America's Voice

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Main Theme and Overview

This episode of Human Events with Jack Posobiec hits hard on the intersection of faith, politics, free speech, and protest tactics in America circa 2026. The show centers on the recent arrest of Don Lemon for participating in an anti-ICE protest that disrupted a church service in St. Paul, Minnesota. Posobiec is joined by guests Michael Knowles and Megan Basham to unpack the implications for religious liberty, the law, Christian leadership’s response, and the cultural battle over Christianity’s role in public life.

The tone is urgent, combative, and reflective, mixing legal analysis, personal passion, and cultural critique with frequent references to American Christian values.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Don Lemon Church Protest and Arrest

• News Recap:
  Don Lemon is arrested after joining activists in disrupting a Sunday church service in St. Paul, as part of an anti-ICE protest.

• Critique of Don Lemon’s Actions:
  Posobiec lambasts Lemon for “invading” a Christian church, agitating congregants—especially children—and “harassing” families during worship (03:33). He draws a hard line between protest and what he calls “invasion.”

  “He ran up to the pastor and stuck a microphone in his face in the middle of the protest—not a protest, the middle of the invasion… He did that. Disrupted. He then worked with the team that was going to do this. And there are indications that he may have even helped to organize it.” (03:33 – Jack Posobiec)

• Setting the Stakes:
  Posobiec frames the incident as part of a broader pattern:

  "We know the Bolsheviks always target churches. We know they always target Christians. This is what they do." (04:27 – Jack Posobiec)

• Legal Context:
  The FACE Act is referenced as the relevant law—protecting access both to abortion clinics and houses of worship. Posobiec notes the Trump administration uses it to prosecute those disrupting church services, paralleling how pro-life activists have been prosecuted.

2. Michael Knowles Joins for Analysis

• On the Arrest’s Significance:
  Knowles is surprised but supportive, calling the arrest “the right thing to do” and arguing that Lemon was daring authorities to act.

  “He was basically Nicolas Maduro. He was saying, come arrest me. Come arrest me. He thought that the administration was too chicken. Our president, it appears, once again, is not.” (11:31 – Michael Knowles)

• Journalism vs. Crime:
  Knowles rejects Lemon’s defense that he was merely acting as a journalist:

  “If we allow that principle to stand, what it means is that journalists have blanket immunity to commit any crime they want. But as far as I know, that's not how our legal system works.” (13:05 – Michael Knowles)

• Why Prosecution Matters:
  Both Knowles and Posobiec stress that the robust response sends a message about defending religious freedom, pushing back on a perceived leftist double standard:

  “If Don Lemon gets off the hook for this, I think it's totally clear that the FACE act is really just about protecting abortionists.” (16:00 – Michael Knowles)
  “It sends a message that that which is sacred actually is sacred and… is actually protected under our federal law.” (19:47 – Jack Posobiec)

Notable Quotes

• “This is the first time I've seen in a long time where the federal government is actually proactively taking action on behalf of a Christian group.” (17:17 – Jack Posobiec)
• “The left always starts by attacking churches.” (16:35 – Michael Knowles)

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3. Rights, Prudence, and Activism – The Minneapolis Case

• Analogies to the Second Amendment:
  Posobiec brings up the Alex Preddy case—a man with a concealed carry permit who escalated a protest—drawing parallels in the misuse of constitutional rights as justifications for dangerous actions.

  “Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean that you're immune from all of the other laws.” (23:17 – Jack Posobiec) “There's this thing called prudence which Aristotle called not only a virtue, but the paramount political virtue.” (23:19 – Michael Knowles)

• Pattern of Radicalization:
  Discussion of how individuals can spiral into more extreme behaviors—often after personal crises or as emulation of true believers—using examples from several recent incidents (see: Luigi Mangione, Thomas Crooks).

  “It seems like this was a downward spiral of radicalization…” (25:32 – Jack Posobiec)

• Cultural Psychology of Activism:
  Knowles and Posobiec suggest despair and “thrall to dark forces” can drive people into extreme activism, which sometimes has a “suicide by cop” motivation.

  “These are people who are in the thrall to very dark forces and who are in cycles of despair and they're quite dangerous.” (26:42 – Michael Knowles)

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4. The Silence of Church Leadership – Megan Basham Segment

• Host’s Question:
  Where are church leaders after the attack? Why the reticence to defend their own congregations?

  “Where are all the other churches calling out Don Lemon for what he did?… Where are all the church leaders?” (32:48 – Jack Posobiec)

• Basham’s Analysis:
  She cites tepid initial statements, then silence, attributing this to church leaders chasing cultural acceptance rather than leading boldly:

  “Rather than leading, they're putting their finger in the wind and saying, how do I follow this narrative and this trend that is developing?” (35:16 – Megan Basham)

• Influencer Culture:
  Basham highlights the role of “female Christian influencers” on social media, shaping (and weakening) the church’s response to cultural conflicts:

  “They're creating content like fashion and home design… they're coming out and only speaking out against ICE because they are influenced by these fashionable trends.” (35:16 – Megan Basham)

• Christian Legalism vs. Biblical Command:
  Posobiec provocatively claims that free speech is not a biblical value but a legal one—drawing out the tension between American and Christian frameworks:

  “Freedom of speech is not a biblical virtue. It's a legal principle.” (36:41 – Jack Posobiec)

Notable Quote

• “If you actually believe that God is present, that you are conducting a sacred rite… then no violation of that can ever be allowed for any purpose whatsoever.” (36:41 – Jack Posobiec)

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5. The Manipulation of Christian Ethics by the Left

• Selective Use of Scripture:
  Both Basham and Posobiec argue that progressive activists “proof-text” Bible verses, especially “love your neighbor,” to justify political aims.

  “They want to tell us how to apply a proof-texted verse that they just pulled out of context entirely.” (39:01 – Megan Basham)

• Growing Pushback Among the Rank-and-File:
  Basham sees more ordinary Christians recognizing their empathy is being manipulated for “lawless” activism:

  “So many of us ordinary Christian women out here have kind of wised up to how our compassion and our empathy has been manipulated…” (40:19 – Megan Basham)

• Churches as Targets Regardless of Politics:
  Even “nonpolitical” churches are not protected from being targeted if, e.g., a staff member has an association with ICE.

  “They still attacked that church simply for the fact that one of their pastors on staff also plays a role within ISIS administration.” (41:12 – Megan Basham)

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6. Networks, Funding, False Christianity

• Funding of Leftist Activism in Churches:
  Basham (referencing her book Shepherds for Sale) traces financial ties from left-leaning billionaires (George Soros, Neville Singer) to evangelical and activist networks pushing “false forms of Christianity” in church communities.

  “Every time you look into these networks where they're pushing a false form of Christianity, you will very frequently find… it's being bankrolled by the secular left, not by Christians.” (47:34 – Megan Basham)

• The “He Gets Us” Campaign and Media Manipulation:
  The hosts critique high-profile advertising campaigns, suggesting they launder secular values through a Christian veneer.

  “It was constantly promoting these, the transgenderism, illegal aliens, all of this stuff. And then saying… that's what Jesus would be for.” (50:02 – Jack Posobiec)

• Scripture as a Weapon:
  Both agree that false teachers twist scripture, citing Satan’s temptation of Christ as an allegory for progressive misuse of Christian language.

  “Satan can quote scripture too. All right? Satan can quote scripture, and that's exactly what he did…” (50:50 – Jack Posobiec) “Scripture tells us that…when these false teachers come in, they're going to use soft and flattering words… they’re going to target women.” (51:00 – Megan Basham)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Posobiec on Defending Sacred Spaces (04:45):
  “It’s really simple. Are you going to defend your children or not? Wake up, Christians. This is what you have to do… You must come down swiftly, you must come down harshly on all of this.” (emphasizing urgency of response)

• Knowles on Media Immunity (13:05):
  “I'm not allowed to walk up to somebody, murder him, shoot him in the face, and then film it and say… you can't prosecute me. I'm a journalist.”

• Basham on False Teaching (51:00):
  “When these false teachers come in, they're going to use soft and flattering words… that is part of the reason that God designed males to be the leaders of their homes… women tend to be easier targets for deceit.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:24 — News on Judge Ruling in Luigi Mangione Case
• 03:33 — Don Lemon’s arrest and strong condemnation by Posobiec
• 11:10 — Michael Knowles segment begins
• 13:05 — Knowles: “Journalism is not a crime shield”
• 17:04 — Targeting churches and the FACE Act
• 19:47 — Posobiec: “Enforcing the sacred — religion and the law”
• 23:19 — Michael Knowles on “prudence” and gun rights
• 32:48 — Basham: “Where are the church leaders?”
• 35:16 — Social media influencers swaying church response
• 39:01 — Basham: “Proof-texting” and neighbor language
• 47:34 — Basham: Funding leftist activism in churches
• 50:02 — Posobiec: “He Gets Us” media campaign criticism
• 51:00 — Basham: Scriptural warning about deception

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Section Summaries and Tone

• Intense and polemical: Posobiec sets a forceful and indignant tone, showing no patience for what he calls "softness" in religious leadership or “leftist manipulation.”
• Legalistic and historical: Frequent references to the FACE Act, First/Second Amendments, and the historical targeting of churches.
• Network analysis: Both Knowles and Basham identify organized networks funding activism, blurring political, financial, and religious boundaries.
• Cultural lament: A persistent theme is the loss of Christian influence in public life and the perceived hijacking of Christian language for progressive causes.

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Conclusion / Call to Action

The episode ends with a rallying cry for Christians and church leaders to recognize, defend, and articulate the truly sacred—against both legal and cultural threats. The message is to draw bright lines, resist manipulation, and expose those (both inside and outside the church) who twist Christian teaching for political ends.

“As always, you have my permission to lay ashore.”
— closing note from Jack Posobiec

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Guests’ Social & Book Plugs

• Michael Knowles:
  @MichaelJKnowles on social; “might be physically near you as well, puffing on a Mayflower cigar.” (29:47)

• Megan Basham:
  @MegBasham on X; @journalistMeganBasham on Instagram; author of Shepherds for Sale

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Transcript

[Jack Posobiec]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Jack Posobiec]

This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.

[Megan Basham]

A commentator, international social media sensation and former Navy Intelligence veteran, this is Human.

[Jack Posobiec]

Events with your host Jack Posobic. Christ is King. Today we are producing more than 3 million pages, including more than 2,000 videos and 180,000 images.

[Megan Basham]

According to court filings and law enforcement sources, a man attempted to impersonate an FBI agent last night in order to release Luigi Mangione.

[News Reporter]

This man, Mark Anderson, he's a 36 year old from Minnesota, went to the Metropolitan Detention Center. What he told them is that he had a court order from a judge to release Luigi Mangione. He also said when confronted he gave them his Minnesota driver's license, but he purported himself to be a member of the FBI. He told them that he had weapons in his bag, but turned out he had this barbecue fork and then a pizza cutter.

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A judge in Manhattan has just ruled that Luigi Mangione, the man accused of killing UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson. The judge has ruled that Mangioni should not face the death penalty if he.

[Jack Posobiec]

Gets convicted on federal charges in that CEO's killing.

[Field Reporter]

Speaking to an organization there that's gearing up to for resistance and protest, I've been surprised, pleasantly surprised to see the community coming together. Diverse community. If you see this when we first pulled up, we're like, wait a minute, what is which. Which operation are we at? And as it turns out, because we're like, well, this is kind of maga coded, right? Saw the American flag or whatever. But these are resistance protesters. They're planning an operation that we're going to follow them on. I can't tell you exactly what they're doing, but it's called Operation Pull Up. You heard what some of the folks said in there. You know, that this is. They shouldn't be there and, you know, they shouldn't be uncomfortable. And this is our house. And whatever that's what protesting is about is to make people uncomfortable.

[Jack Posobiec]

Don Lemon has been arrested in connection with an anti ICE protest at a church in St. Paul, Minnesota. All right, Jack Soaker back live here. Human Events Daily, Real America's voice. Today is January 30, 2026. Anno Domini. Church invasions will be prosecuted. Christian churches will. Will be made sacrosanct in the United States of America. Christ is king. Don Lemon arrested for his actions, invading, disrupting, agitating, and harassing children, Christian young children and their families while attending church services. This has gone on for far too long. There have been too many church attacks going on there, too. And don't let him sit there and tell you for a second that, oh, he wasn't agitated. He ran up to the pastor and stuck a microphone in his face in the middle of the protest. Not a protest. The middle of the invasion. He did that. Disrupted. He then worked with the team that was going to do this. And there are indications that he may have even helped to. To organize it. He was certainly supporting it when it was going on. And he was a. He said, this is the point of protest, remember? To make people feel uncomfortable. He said it as children were being. We're walking out in tears after they had just gone to church with their families on Sunday. Now, I'm going to tell you something right now. If. If anyone ever tried to do that in my church, anyone ever tried to come up on me and my family while we were in mass and did something like this. Just saying, I think you might get a little bit of a different response, and I'll just leave it at that. What he did was illegal. What he did was unconscionable. And it's very clear here. It's very clear. We know the Bolsheviks always target churches. We know they always target Christians. This is what they do. We've known this for years. We explained it to you that they always go after churches, whether it's in Russia, whether It's in Spain, whether it's in China. And yes, there are churches, underground churches in China to this day that are persecuted. Whether it was the French Revolution where they smashed and defiled and desecrated the cathedral of the Notre Dame itself. No, no. What kind of America do you want to live in? Do you want to live in America where these agitators, where there's these disruptors are going in and invading and raiding churches, going after pastors, going after churchgoers, going after Christian children? It's really simple. Are you going to defend your children or not? Wake up, Christians. This is what you have to do. This is how you have to respond. You must come down swiftly, you must come down harshly on all of this. And it's very clear we will protect that which is sacred. There are rights in this country. There is a First Amendment right to exercise your religion freely. They were deprived of that right. There's also a law called the FACE act. And under the Face act, number one, you're not supposed to block people from going into abortion clinics. We saw the Biden administration use this on pro life people just for praying, which obviously, obviously doesn't break the law, but they did. Then that same law covers you're not allowed to disrupt people from going to church. And see, this, by the way, covers the conservatives and the liberals, because for conservatives, our religious service is going to church and for liberals, their religious service is going to an abortion clinic. So you see, it's the holy places of each side. Conservatives have our churches and the liberals have abortion clinics. That's what the FACE act protects. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be right back. Incredible day. Churches will be protected. Christian families will be protected in the United States of America. Human Events Daily continues.

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[Show Supporter/Guest]

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[Jack Posobiec]

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[Michael Knowles]

You know, it's just a great day, Jack. Great to be with you. And when the News broke this morning. I lit up a Mayflower cigar right on my set. I was not. Look, I've long been a plan truster. I've long said the administration gets things 99.7% right. I even. I did not think that they were actually going to go and arrest Don Lemon, which was the right thing to do, but it took a lot of courage. They're gonna get a lot of flack for this. I think it's crucial, though. It's important this guy committed crimes. He did so on camera. He admitted to doing so on camera, and it was a game of chicken. He was basically Nicholas Maduro. He was saying, come arrest me. Come arrest me. He thought that the administration was too chicken. Our president, it appears, once again, is not.

[Jack Posobiec]

There's something that's actually amazing because. So last night, what was President Trump doing while all of this was going down? He was at the theater with his wife. We've cut the clip. We could just. You guys just play without the audio. But he's. He's there at the Kennedy center watching the premiere of the Melania documentary that just dropped. And he's out there in. In the box seats, you know, with the. In his presidential box with. With Melania, the first family that's there, and he's watching the documentary, all while that. The. Don Lemon is being summarily arrested by federal agents in Los Angeles. By the way, also sitting a little bit behind where the President was, myself and Tanya Tay also got to enjoy the film with our complimentary Melania popcorn buckets. The popcorn was amazing, and the movie was even better. So as we were hanging out, I was like, wow, I had a great night at the theater last night. How about you, Don Lemon? How did your night go? It's truly amazing. It's literally like a scene out of the Godfather.

[Michael Knowles]

It's so beautiful. Yeah. I'm glad that President Trump's night could be enjoyable on two fronts. Really important, though, because, you know, Don Lemon's excuse, from the beginning, when it was clear that he was committing crimes on camera, his excuse was, well, no, no, I've just committed an act of journalism. Now, if we allow that principle to stand, what it means is that journalists have blanket immunity to commit any crime they want. But as far as I know, that's not how our legal system works. I'm not allowed to walk up to somebody, murder him, shoot him in the face, and then film it and say, no, no, no, you can't prosecute me. I'm a journalist. I'm not allowed to Go burgle somebody's house. And then when I get arrested, I say, no, no, no, you don't understand. I was gonna write an article about it later. I'm a journalist, so I'm gonna walk out with this TV now. That's not how it works. Don Lemon committed a crime. He said on camera, I have a secret. I know what we're about to do. You don't know it yet. He was out there pouring coffee, giving donuts to the agitators. He was ob. Passive reporter. He was an active participant in this. He bragged about it. Well, okay, buddy, if you want to put yourself out there and be the hero of the radical left and be an active participant, then you're going to be held to account for the crimes that you actively participated in.

[Jack Posobiec]

Why is it so important that the Trump administration is going after people that disrupted a Christian church? And this is something that I really want to emphasize because I think a lot of people say, oh, it's just Don Lemon. It's just. No, no, no, no. It's about what Don Lemon and his band of Bolsheviks did to a group of Christian families. And Christian. Remember, they were blocking the aisles. There were a bunch of kids apparently up in Sunday school, and they blocked the. The entrance to where the Sunday school classroom was. So the kids couldn't even get out. The parents couldn't get to their own children while this was going on. That's why the kids were freaked in that one video where filing out. So why is it so important, Knowles, that President Trump and the administration are really coming down hard on the invasion and raiding of a Christian church?

[Michael Knowles]

Because there are two tiers of justice in America, and there have been for a very long time. And this is actually the perfect example of it, because Lemon and the mob appear to have violated multiple laws. But one of the laws they violated is the Face act, which you've mentioned, which really just exists to protect abortion clinics from prayers. That's what it's for. It's to stop grannies from praying and demonstrating at abortion clinics. And the only way that the libs were able to get that passed is to throw out this little olive branch and say, okay, well, we'll also protect churches from disruptive demonstrations as well. But the Face act is never really used to stop people from attacking churches. It's really only ever used to protect abortion mills and infanticide. So you had, under Biden pro life grannies who were locked up for months or years for praying and demonstrating in abortion clinics. And here, what Trump is doing is saying, okay, well, well, look, we have this law. I hate the Face Act. I think it's a horrible law. There are plenty of ways to protect the churches without this pro abortion law. But, okay, if we have the Face act on the books, well, then we're going to prosecute you under it because you are very clearly violating it. If Don Lemon gets off the hook for this, I think it's totally clear that the Face act is really just about protecting abortionists. And if Don Lemon gets away with it as well, it shows that the left just has a blanket immunity to do whatever they want here. You mentioned earlier the Bolsheviks or the communists during the Spanish Revolution. I mean, this is a theme. The left always starts by attacking churches. That's been true going back to the French Revolution when the term the left came into existence. That's true. And so if you want to prevent these radical, revolutionary kind of movements that always end in massive violence, you've got to stop them where they begin. And they always seem to begin with a mob gathered outside a church.

[Jack Posobiec]

And I think there's a reason for that, too. I think that it's these things, these ideas. These are not just different ideologies. They're not just differences of opinion. These actually are theological tenets of a religion. And so, you know, you wanna say that we're wrong. I guarantee you that if the left were to try to put the Face act up for, oh, I don't know, going to drag queen story hour or going to some pride parade, they would absolutely do so in a heartbeat, because they view going to worshiping the left, worshiping the LGBT movement as an act of a religious piety. You see this also with the way that they've been treating the migrants. They go and they act like this is some sort of religion for them where they get to play out the, you know, this. This, like, pop notion of what Selma actually was. You know, this is our moment, finally. The left lives for these things. This is their religion. However, it's that religion that has taken over the secular spaces because God and Christianity were pushed out in the first place. That's why they know that sort of like the final boss of the right is, of course, Christianity, because it's the final boss of order. It's the final boss of morality. It's the final boss of civilization, is that Christian core. That's why they always try to stamp it out. So this is the first time I think we've seen in a very long time where the federal government is actually proactively taking action. On behalf of a Christian, a Christian group. And I don't think that we should overlook that.

[Michael Knowles]

Certainly not. I thought your comparison was great, by the way, that the abortion clinic is the left's church. And the philosopher makes this point. The center point of the Mass is the consecration, the Holy Communion, the Eucharist. And the priest says, quoting our Lord, this is my body, which will be given up for you. And there's this kind of satanic inversion that takes place in the abortion clinic, which is also justified on those very words. This is my body. My body, my choice, albeit to these horrifically selfish, violent, immoral ends. So, yes, those are the two things that are protected. What does it come down to? It comes down to the left hating God. So it's sad. Sad for them, sad for society, but that's why they're never going to stop. And the only way that you're going to help rectify the situation is if you protect the good guys, if you protect the people who are the victims in this case. And there's no way to do that in this particular incident without arresting Don Lemon. If he gets away with it, you're gonna get a lot more Don Lemons, not just his shenanigans, but you get a lot more people who are attacking churches. You gotta stop it at its source or it's going to spread.

[Jack Posobiec]

Oh, it sends a message that that which is sacred actually is sacred and that it is actually protected under our federal law. That the First Amendment is not just when it covers religious expression and religious exercise is not just a. A suggestion, it's not just a guideline. It is actually a binding law that the federal government will follow. Because when it. When it comes to these notions of power, when it comes to these questions of, you know, who actually is in charge, who is governing, it's not just what we have written down on pieces of paper, it's what the government actually does. Certainly we learned this with the border, right? It doesn't matter what your laws are if the government doesn't enforce them. That's the entire key. And so to see this shift night and day, from the former FBI going after traditional Catholics to now seeing federal agents arrest people for invading a church, it's. It's amazing to see. It's incredible to see. I have whiplash from seeing it in just a couple of years time, but it shows how far they've gone and how far we need to go to be able to write the ship, to write back. Human events daily. More with Michael Knowles here. Real Marcus voice, Foreign.

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That's public.com podcast paid for by Public.

Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice.

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[Show Supporter/Guest]

Talk about influencers. These are influences and they're friends of mine.

[Michael Knowles]

Jack.

[Show Supporter/Guest]

Where's Jack?

[Jack Posobiec]

Jack?

[Show Supporter/Guest]

He's got a great job.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, Jack. We're back live here, Human Events Daily. We've got Michael Knowles. On Knowles, there was something that you said in the previous segment that got me to thinking. So Don Lemon is claiming that his actions are covered under the First Amendment. And that got me to thinking about something else that happened in Minneapolis very recently. And that was the case of Alex Preddy. And in the case of Alex Preddy, I saw so many people saying, well, wait a minute, hold on. He had a concealed carry permit. He's allowed to have a gun there. That's the Second Amendment. How dare you come down on this guy. How dare you say that this guy did anything wrong? Because he's just holding up his second amendment rights. And I had like, all the libertarians were, you know, yelling at me and actually going after your colleague Matt Walsh as well, saying, you know, oh, I can't believe you're just such Paso. Look at Walsh or such hypocrites on this. And I'm like, I think you guys have a fundamental misunderstanding. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean that you're like, immune from all of the other laws.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, there's this thing called prudence which Aristotle called not only a virtue, but the paramount political virtue. And so it's true. If you have a ccw, you know, that's great. And you can carry your weapon. I think it's telling that Eric's Preddy's parents said that he had the permit, never carried the weapon, only started carrying it when he was going downtown to mess around with the law enforcement. But here's what prudence would dictate. If you are going to carry your weapon, don't commit crimes, obstruct law enforcement, and put yourself in a situation where you're more likely to be killed. That was really the issue here. It brings us back to the wisdom of Johnny Cash, who. It's not in the Constitution, but it's worthwhile nonetheless. Said, don't take your guns to town, Bill. Leave your guns at home, son. Don't take your guns to town. Now you can take your guns to town. That's okay. But just like you wouldn't put your concealed carry gun in your pocket and go get belligerently blackout drunk at the dive bar downtown, it's probably not the best idea. So too it's an even worse idea to take your, your concealed carry weapon and then go pick fights with law enforcement and threaten them after your colleagues have been trying to kill them for weeks. That's not very likely. Not going to end well.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah. And it's just very clear from a rights perspective too that again, the first, the second Amendment, the first Amendment, they just don't, they don't give you license to go out and do whatever you want. Right. I have a driver's license. That doesn't mean that I can run over people on the sidewalk. That doesn't mean I can run over federal agents. And believe me, by the, there are times where I see some people on the sidewalk and I'm like, you know, how many points.

[Michael Knowles]

Tempting.

[Jack Posobiec]

Right. But, but we know you don't do it. It doesn't give you license to do any of these things. Right. There are still laws on the books for a reason. Criminals use guns all the time, by the way. And so to, to make that a second amendment issue is just silly. You know, when I, when I look at Preddy, though, you mentioned about his parents and you mentioned about that. There's, we talked yesterday about the fact that he had actually been recently divorced. You know, divorced, I think two years prior. He had been someone who was initially radicalized during the George Floyd riots, which happened. Right. You know, basically in the same neighborhood as this. And what we see, what, what I'm just gonna say is it seems like this was a downward spiral of radicalization, the same type that you see with so many other of these individuals. Luigi Maggione, who by the way, just got the death penalty taken off by this Biden judge in New York. He was someone who had dropped out of work. You saw Thomas Matthew Crooks, Tyler Robinson were both college dropouts. So you see these downward spirals of radicalization as people get seeped more and more into this radical culture and it pushes them to commit more and more extreme acts. And I wonder, you know, looking at this and you know, maybe just a little bit of armchair psychology here, but someone asked me after the show yesterday, do you think that he was perhaps on some level seeking suicide by cop or suicide by ice? And I don't know if he had consciously decided that, but at least my opinion is he wanted to die for his cause. I think that that was certainly something that he was thinking of. What say you?

[Michael Knowles]

I had exactly the same thought. There was a woman who was just going viral. She had a septum piercing, which is the tell that never works out well. You know, you're dealing with some bad stuff when the girls have the septum piercing. And she said, look, I don't have anything to lose. I'm going to go out there and get exactly what I want. I don't, I don't even really want to be here anymore. And the video went viral. I think there was a lot of honesty to that, which is these people who don't believe in anything greater, they think at best that we're all just sort of meat puppets walking around the world. It's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. If there is any meaning to the world, it's entirely self created. These are people who are in the thrall to very dark forces and who are in cycles of despair and they're quite dangerous. So do these people consciously seek out suicide by cop? Not quite. Did they exhibit many signs of despair? Yes, they obviously did. And if they did have a couple of brain cells rubbing together, if their reason was working at all, then it would have told them that. If you start picking fights with cops, especially when you're carrying a weapon, or if you drive an SUV into a cop, you are asking that officer to kill you and they got what they wanted, right?

[Jack Posobiec]

And you see this over. Eric Hoffer has the great book about this called True Believers where he says that it's those people who feel like they have nothing to lose, that they throw themselves into these movements and then they try to prove their loyalty. They Try to prove their worth. They try to prove how invested they are by going and committing more and more heinous acts. And for people want to say, oh, you don't know this guy? Well, it's a pattern. You know what? It's a pattern. And that's exactly how the FBI puts together profiles. They look at patterns, they look at data points and they say, gee, isn't that interesting that all of these data points line up? We're just about out of time, by the way. I gotta, I gotta throw at you. So are you doing, Are you doing tree stays up till Candlemas? Is that what you're doing right now, Jack?

[Michael Knowles]

Would you expect anything less? It's Christmas.

[Jack Posobiec]

I would not. I absolutely would. Explain to people what Candlemas is and why your tree is still up.

[Michael Knowles]

So a lot of people think Christmas is just one day, the 25th. Some say it's eight days, the octave of Christmas. Some will go further to the feast of the Epiphany. But if you're a really hardcore decoration maxing trad, you go all the way up until Candlemas, another liturgical feast. That's when it comes down. And then finally we can look ahead toward the liturgical season of Lent and then Easter. But a lot of people, they wanna put the decorations up in October or something like that, that. No, no, no. Our religion says first the fast and then the feast. Modern religion says first the feast and then the hangover. We, we are still enjoying Christmas over here, Jack, as I'm certain that you are as well.

[Jack Posobiec]

We absolutely are. And cannabis is the feast of the presentation. So. And if you're. And for, for people who get on the rosary, right, we're going through the different mysteries of the rosary. So you have the Nativity, then you have the presentation. It all flows together. It's very simple. Michael Knowles, where can people follow you?

[Michael Knowles]

They can follow me at Michael J. Knowles on all of social media and I don't know, you could find me yelling on a street corner. I might be physically near you as well.

[Jack Posobiec]

And perhaps puffing on a Mayflower cigar.

[Michael Knowles]

That's right.

[Jack Posobiec]

Take care, man.

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[Michael Knowles]

Stay.

[Jack Posobiec]

Stay warm.

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[Show Supporter/Guest]

Where's Jack? Where is he? Jack, I want to see you. Great job, Jack.

[Megan Basham]

Thank you.

[Show Supporter/Guest]

What a job you do. You know, we have an incredible thing. We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys and these are the guys should be getting pulled.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, Jack back Live here. Human Events daily, folks. Every day Americans make choices that shape our country's future right down to which cell phone provider we support. Here's what most people don't realize. Patriot Mobile isn't just a wireless provider. They're an activist organization funded by selling top tier cell phone service. They've been on the front lines defending our freedoms long before it was cool. Standing in the gap when others wouldn't. The best part is they deliver prioritized premium service on all three major US networks, giving you the same or even better coverage backed by 100% US based customer support. Get unlimited data plans, mobile hotspots, international roaming and more. And when you switch to Patriot Mobile, you'll help grow a movement that fuels the Christian conservative cause. Every bill you pay helps advance the values of faith, family and freedom. Switching is easier than ever. Activate in minutes. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Take a stand today. Go to patriotmobile.com poso or call 972 Patriot and use promo code POSO for a free month of service. That's patriotmobile.com poso or Call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. So I wanted to bring on now my next guest, my good friend Megan Basham from the Daily Wire because I have some questions for her about Don Lemon. Megan, how are you? How are you?

[Megan Basham]

I'm good, Jack. How you doing?

[Jack Posobiec]

So here is my question, right so Don Lemon, he invades this church and this is gonna piggyback on your book and everything that you've been talking about regarding churches in America that he gets arrested or last night, I should say. Yet here's something that's really interesting. What's the dog that's not barking in all of this? Where are all the other churches calling out Don Lemon for what he did? Where are all the church leaders? And I would say that certainly, certainly on my side, for the Catholics, for the bishops, for the cardinals, the Pope. Where are all of our hierarchy coming out and saying and condemning him for what he did? And at the same time, you don't see that as well with a lot of the. A lot of the mainline churches evangelical. Where are all the church leaders? I don't get it.

[Megan Basham]

Yeah, that's such a good question. You know, we did hear some statements, like, immediately after the event. So, you know, a few Southern Baptist leaders. This was the Southern Baptist Church, which is the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. u.S. They made a few fairly tepid comments. I did appreciate them. But then they disappeared. And you haven't heard anything more from them. Proud of this church. Yeah.

[Jack Posobiec]

It wasn't like. It wasn't like that. The condemnations that you're hearing, you know, and on the Catholic side, we've got all these bishops who are, like, losing their minds about ICE and deportations. How can you do this so terrible? Our neighbors. Because, like, they're just totally used to getting all the federal money that comes alongside these programs, and yet you don't hear, like, this. This outright condemnation. You hear more condemnations of Trump than you do of Don Lemon, who actually attacked a church.

[Megan Basham]

Right. And, you know, one of the things they're not talking about is they're trying to pretend. Even some of these religious leaders are trying to pretend that, you know, this is somehow a violation of free speech or it's an attack on the press, and that is not the case at all. What people are forgetting is that these charges went through a grand jury. So, you know, some citizens in Minneapolis took a look at this and went, no, that is unacceptable. So. Or some citizens in St. Paul, we need to respond to this. So, you know, it's very clear that what Don Lemon did was egregious, and we're gonna see if a jury determines that it was also illegal. I think it was. But the biggest thing to me is, you know, why are they not saying anything when they're speaking out about these very messy, not very clear what happened, issues with ice, when it's very clear what happened with these people storming into a church and what their intentions were. And it's simply, it's worldliness, Jack. It's wanting to be fashionable. Because the people who are speaking out against ICE are the powerful. They are the cultural dominators. They're Hollywood, they're big influencers on Instagram, I've spent the whole week looking at, at female Christian influencers. And that's what's important to know is that part of the reason I think that a lot of these church leaders who are typically men are not speaking out is because you have all of these female, quote unquote, Bible teachers, theologians, apologists, or even just, you know, they're creating content like fashion and home design. Suddenly they're all branded as Christian and they're coming out and only speaking out against ICE because they are influenced by these fashionable trends. And so then you have these typically men in leadership who are looking at that, and rather than leading, they're go. They're putting their finger in the wind and saying, how do I follow this narrative and this trend that is developing? So rather than pushing back against the false narratives that are coming from so many of these female Christian influencers, they're capitulating to it. So what they should be doing is rebuking it and addressing it and saying, hey, we are the authority that God has given the church, and so we need to address these false narratives that you women with a lot of followers are out there promoting. But they're not doing that. Instead, they're kowtowing to it.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, there's so much you put there. And I'll just to add to what you said about some church leaders saying, oh, it's a freedom of speech issue. Well, if you're not going to defend your church, if you're not going to defend and your place of worship, do you even believe in the things that you say? Because if you actually believe that God is present, that you are conducting a sacred rite, that you are there praying to the one true creator of the universe gathered together to worship him and to worship Christ, then no violation of that can ever be allowed for any purpose whatsoever, you know, other than like, my gosh, you know, like there's a fire, you know, or like some, you know, a medical emergency or something, no deliberate violation of that could ever take place. And so my question, I guess, would be back to them is to say, like, well, do you guys actually believe this stuff or not? And I would even go so further as to say, because I love getting into this with people and people get mad when I hit them with this stuff. But I would point out freedom of speech is not a biblical virtue. It's not a biblical principle. It's a legal principle. Right. So it's a legal principle that we have in the United States because of the Constitution. It's not something that you find in the Bible. We find in the Bible is God and Christ saying that we should worship God. That's what the Bible says. And so it's just not there. It's not something that's there at all. But of course, people don't like when I say stuff like that. I want to get your sense though, about these influencers. So we're seeing Christian influencers. And this. You're absolutely right, though. This is a button that I've seen being pressed all over the place to say, hey, it is unchristian to support ice. It's unchristian. They're hitting what did Bruce Springsteen is that Bruce Kringstein is up with. There are strangers in our land. And Barack Obama says, help your neighbor, which of course includes helping pit bulls for some reason. And they're using this word over and over and over, neighbor, neighbor, neighbor. Because what are they hitting? They're trying to hit the Good Samaritan story. They're trying to hit stories about love your neighbo labor. They're trying to hit this over and over and over. Why, Megan, is it that. That you think you're seeing this riled up so much on the left?

[Megan Basham]

Yeah, I mean, a big part of it is the famous meme, right. They don't have much understanding of Christianity, but they want to tell us how to apply a proof texted verse that they just pulled out of context entirely. So when Christ is giving that command, he is giving it to individuals to love the person right in front of you. And he says, begin with the house of the Lord. So we are of course to have those ordered loves and it is to begin with our immediate family and then with those of the house of God, our Christian neighbors. So, you know, they, they want to pull these things out of context and try to build some sort of political position around it. I don't think that works. And the good news is what I have seen is a little bit of pushback. So, you know, when we talk about the influencers, what you're seeing over there on Instagram is very reminiscent of 2020 and the black squares where you had a bunch of hive mind lemmings posting these black squares saying, I'm listening or I'm an ally or those kind of things. I think back in 2020, a lot of us who enjoy fashion and design kind of sat back and accepted it. This time that's not happening as much. You're seeing a much, much bigger push. And I think part of the reason is because of what we saw at that church in St. Paul, because so many of us ordinary Christian women out here have kind of wised up to how our compassion and our empathy has been manipulated and how our feelings are being extorted. And so now you have women going, hold up. No, I come to you for lipstick recommendations, not for you to tell me to become an agitator, to obstruct ICE operations on the ground. So I think that's part of it. And then I think the other reason that you have so many ordinary Christians pushing back so that you and I are right now talking about, hey, what's wrong with these leaders is because they're starting to realize that there is nothing you can do as a church or as a ministry short of shrouding yourselves, draping your buildings in those rainbow flags and those BLM statements that are going to keep those agitators out of your face. So when you look at city's church in St. Paul, that was not a political church. That was not a church that whose pastor speaks at TPUSA events. It was not a church whose pastor writes political op eds or is fiery or engages in culture war. And yet they still attacked that church simply for the fact that one of their pastors on staff also plays a role within ISIS administration. So that is how extreme they have been. And so I think that's part of the reason that you see the rank and file pushing back. But you're absolutely right that right now I would say that leadership is still being led more by your famous Bible study lady Bible study teachers over there on Instagram.

[Jack Posobiec]

I want to so my pushback after the break because Megan, this is a key issue. That is it's a network that's being activated. It's absolutely a network that's being activated. And you in your recent book unpacked and exposed this entire network. We write back Dak Sobec, Megan Basham, Human Events Daily.

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[Show Supporter/Guest]

Jack is a great guy. He's written a fantastic book. Everybody's talking about it. Go get it. And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event. And we're going to turn it around and make our country great again.

[Jack Posobiec]

Amen. All right, Jack, we're back here. Live Human Events daily. You know, in the last segment, I was just, I was just making the provocative comment that the freedom of speech is not a biblical principle, it is a legal principle. This is clear, by the way, the Ten Commandments includes a speech restriction. Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain. So that's something that's not freedom of speech. And in fact, Christian societies have had blasphemy laws on the books for centuries. One of those societies included, by the way, the United States of America, right up from our founding all the way through the Progressive Era. In fact, one of the last debates I ever had with Charlie Kirk was specifically about this on thought crime. When we were talking about how states used to have blasphemy laws on the books. And me and Blake Neff were getting into it and Charlie was sort of poking each side and you could see he was interested in this. This, of course, comes up in the context of President Trump saying that he wants to ban flag burning. And so we pointed out sacred symbols, sacred words. These things used to actually be protected by law. Megan Bash, I wanna bring you back in here. And I guess the argument that I'm, you know, that I was making at the time, and I would continue to make, and I certainly am now going to advance in the wake of Don Lemon's arrest, is that as a society, if we deem things to be protected, if we deem Things to be important. Christian symbols, Christian services, Christian Christian churches, Christian places. That if we do that, that means we're sending a signal throughout society that we're drawing a line around this and saying, this is important, this is protected. Don't mess with this stuff. And as Christians, we were told in the 1960s to pull all that out of society, pull the Ten Commandments out of society, pull all that out. And what. And what happened? We didn't turn into some, like, secular humanist, progressive, oh, you know, just be. Just be a good darn person kind of society. No, we had the left come in, they jammed their own values down our throats, and they erected their own religion in place. And so I view this as Christianity fighting back and actually American history fighting back.

[Megan Basham]

Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to get too abstract and philosophical here, but for me, I go. Part of the reason that, that the, you know, fundamental Christian understanding of our nation is necessary in order to have a functioning society is because Christianity is just reality respecting this is God's world. He set up the parameters for it and the way that we should work within it. And so you can typically expect that if you're going to get outside of that instruction manual, you are going to get further and further away from basic sense, basic wisdom, basic morality. And that's what we're seeing. You know, so for me, this idea that you can have any sort of just society separate from Christianity is preposterous. And, you know, those who are making that appeal, I think are starting to recognize that it hasn't been as successful as they hoped. And I don't know about you, but I'm actually saying kind of a shift on the left away from expressing fear of Christianity and trying to oppose Christianity and more, trying to appropriate Christianity and create a false form of Christianity. So when you see guys like James Tirico.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, yeah, no, so James Tirico, great example, by the way. And you wrote an entire book about this, basically. And I want to make sure that you explain that to everybody, explain these networks, because this, this false Christianity, love your neighbor, right? Love your neighbor. It's the love your neighbor Christianity that's being, you know, that's being active. I hear Ms. Rachel was saying that. Well, it says, love your neighbor, right? Ms. Rachel, love your neighbor. And then she throws, like, the pronouns at you and she throws the, you know, the, the him. Her, like, androgynous friend playing guitar at you. That's why she's totally not welcome in our house. And even though we have little kids and what is this network? What did you discover when you were researching all of this? Because you see it everywhere. And James Tirico is a great example for.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Megan Basham]

And this is, you know, all of this is connected to my book the Influencers, the, the James Tirico, what happened in that church. Because what I want to pinpoint about what happened in that church is when those guys went in, they didn't come in saying, we are anti Christian, we are opposed to Christians. Notice what they tried to do. That William Kelly, that, you know, sort of homeless looking ringleader, he claimed, I am being Christlike, I am overturning tables in the temple. Now, there's a million reasons I could give you for why he is extremely off based. And Christ would be grieved and angry to see his bride treated that way. But what we can pinpoint for this moment is that these guys are trying to claim the mantle of Christ and we're gonna see that increasingly going forward. And you know, part of what I explored in my bestselling book, Shepherds for Sale, was that this is just like this, you know, riot in this church in St. Paul. This is, is funded and it is organized from major billionaires and foundations on the left. So when we look at the immigration issue, we see these evangelical groups pushing open borders, pushing amnesty. And if you scratch the surface, what you find out is that they are being bankrolled by groups like Open Society, which is George Soros, in order to push those narratives. When you look at what's happening on the ground in Minneapolis and St. Paul and the invaders of that church, you scratch the surface and you find out that a billionaire associated with the Chinese Communist Party is funding it. Neville Singer. So every time you kind of look into these networks where they're pushing a false form of Christianity, you will very frequently find that it is being bankrolled by the secular left, not by Christians. And so that's why it's really important to be discerning. And anytime, you know, someone wants to bring some of this content into your church, you should be asking questions. And you know, right now, if you're a pastor and you're listening to this show, I do want to take a minute and encourage you. I know it's tough, but it would be a really good moment to make it very clear for your people to put out some statement on social media or, you know, from the pulpit to say, Christians respect law and order. We respect the enforcement of the law. So if you don't like immigration law, then you fight that at the ballot. Box. What you don't do is riot in the street, because that is discrediting to the name of Christ. It is a poor witness. It is not only not loving your neighbor, it is defaming the name of the God you say you serve. So you need to stop it. We don't have a God of lawless lawlessness.

[Jack Posobiec]

No. And they're using that to launder left wing ideology and left wing beliefs and left wing values. And we saw this, we see this year after year at, you know, in these super bowl ads, Right? What is it that he's just like us or whatever. And, you know, he gets us. Thank you. He gets us. And I, Charlie and I talk about all the time how it would. It was constantly promoting these, the transgenderism, illegal aliens, all of this stuff. And then saying like, oh, well, that's who. What. What Jesus would be for. Jesus would be for all of these things. And if you want to be a good Christian, you need to be for these things as well. It's a joke. It's ridiculous. It's twisting scripture. And you know what? Satan can quote scripture too. All right? Satan can quote scripture, and that's exactly what he did when Christ was there. And there's a reason that the gospel shows us Satan quoting scripture because that is who you need to watch out for. False prophets.

[Megan Basham]

Yeah. Amen. And you know, one other note to add to that is that scripture tells us that when these false teachers come in, they're going to use soft and flattering words. And I find that so interesting because you expect a false teacher, false teachers to be fiery or angry. And that is actually not what scripture teaches us. It tells us that they're going to be very deceitful. And it also tells us they're going to target women. So, you know, I find that interesting. I think that is part of the reason that God designed males to be the leaders of their homes. Because I, I do happen to think that women tend to. Because of our soft and compassionate natures, we tend to be easier target for deceit. And so, you know, that's part of why I really think that men in the church need to step up and they need to address this stuff. And they also need to acknowledge that, listen, Satan's gonna come to you in a package you may not immediately recognize, and he will be speaking often soft and flattering words. And it could come in the form of a beautiful Instagram spread with Bible pictures and the coffee and just poisonous heresy coming with that lovely picture.

[Jack Posobiec]

Megan, I love it. You're just going off and it's so perfect. It's so absolutely perfect. And if you have been softened up by this culture, then guess what? When Satan does actually send his legions to your church door, you will not be prepared for it. Megan Basham where can people go to follow you?

[Megan Basham]

Yeah, you can find me at, at Meg Basham on X where I typically hang out. But right now I am waging a one woman war against the left wing propagandist influencers over on Instagram at journalist Megan Basham. So you can find me there. Come join me.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, I'm definitely going to have to check that out. Megan Basham, thank you so much for joining us here folks. By the way, I'd love to ask a simple question. Would the left be so supportive of supporting a riot if this were at, say, I don't know, a synagogue or a mosque or any other religion? Interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay ashore. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.