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This is Jim.
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General Michael Flynn
Hello.
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Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back.
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General Michael Flynn
In April and now I have customers out the door.
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And this is Sarah.
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Ava Vlaar
Hi.
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iHeartRadio Sales Representative
She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.
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Ava Vlaar
Business is booming. That's why I'm working on a Saturday.
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Jack Posobiec
This is what happens when the Fourth Turning meets Fifth Generation Warfare.
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A commentator, international social media sensation and former Navy intelligence veteran.
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Ava Vlaar
This is Human Events with your host Jack Posobic.
- [02:28]
Jack Posobiec
Christ is king. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard. Today we have a very special edition of Human Events Daily for you over here live in Washington D.C. today is October 30, 2025. It is mischief Night as as we used to call it in Philly. And look. We are here at General Flynn's new Media Summit. Today is all about independent media. It's all about disrupting. The narrative. It's about getting the truth out. And we're so glad that Real America's Voice, human events daily are able to be here and to be a part of this great summit because we're meeting with people from all across the spectrum and in fact all across the world, even some folks who are joining us from Ukraine that are here that have been on the front lines, they're going to tell us the truth and give us ground, truth, including video, people who go to the front lines of people that go into even occupied areas to tell us what's actually going on behind those lines in ways that the mainstream media just will not do. This is the force multiplier. This is how you can be a truth aggregator, how you can actually get the facts, spread it out through using social media, using independent networks like Real America's Voice over the top, and then going and telling that story. So we're going to be here holding this summit, this meeting of the minds. James o' Keefe is here, Laura Logan is here, Ava Vlar is here. We've got incredible, incredible lineup for you. So we're going to be having all, we're going to be showing that on Real America's Voice all throughout the day. But then also we are going to be doing a sit down right now with General Flynn himself. My former director when I was a DIA intelligence analyst, very, very young E5 petty officer is 2 Pasovic when I went on my deployment to Guantanamo Bay and he was three star general director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Because this is what it's all about, the interplay between information and, and truth and policy. We've seen over the last 10 years, the lies from the mainstream media, the lies from the intelligence community and we're fighting them every single day. Yesterday, the revelations that came out about the FBI's Operation Arctic Frost, the targeting of TPO, say the targeting even of MyPillow and, and their banks and Mike Lindell. This is the situation that we've been through. We were living through a version of the American Stasi. General Flynn came out, blew the whistle on it and he paid a price for that and he suffered for that and he was attacked for that and he was raked over the coals for that. But we're so glad that he's here to sit down with us today at Human Events Daily to be able to understand this, to sit down. Really excited to be here with General Flynn for yet another summit in Washington D.C. general, thank you for having us. Absolutely, Jack, thanks for sit down. So tell us about what is the purpose and the goal of today's summit.
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General Michael Flynn
Yeah, so a couple of years ago, I had a great conversation with a group of some of these podcasters who are just emerging, you know, on the scene of what we have seen, and I call it the podcast presidency, because guys like you and others that are. That have giant followings, and you're leading a message of essentially, we've got to save America. Right. I mean, I think the big picture, Jack, is everybody sees the threat that we are facing here internally to our country, and one of the big topics that we're going to talk about today is censorship and how do we work together. So this is a means been going on for a couple of years. I now have an opportunity with the Gold Institute to organize this effort. We have over 200, essentially, people that operate in the world of social media and podcasting, alternative media, independent media. We have over north of 75 million viewers for today's audience. And, you know, when you start talking about impressions, we have tens of billions of impressions from some of the. Some of the types of people that are going to be in here. This is just sort of an open forum, an initial step, initial stage to start organizing the independent media forces that we have. As a military guy, I'm just trying to say, okay, to move forward as a nation. How do we task, organize? And frankly, one of the things that you'll hear me talk about today, Jack, is that, you know, President Trump is really in this. He's really taken on the institutions of government, certainly in the United States, not just overseas, but the institutions of government. And he's, you know, kind of slashing them. You know, I mean, to metaphorically say he's slashing and burning these institutions of government, and I think the rise of what we now know as fake news. Right. People can define that however they want, but there's clearly, there is. There is a lot of untruth, misinformation, a lot of things out there. And what you have in this room behind me is a bunch of courageous entrepreneurs who have said, look, you know, we want a voice, and we're going to have a voice. And one thing that. And I'll get off my dime here, there are people in here that have audiences of 75,000, and there's people in here with audiences of 5 million. The people that have 75,000, those are deeply loyal audiences because they stuck with that person. Some of it's regionally, but we certainly have, you know, global representation in here with people from Europe primarily, and Eastern Europe as well. We have a Ukrainian woman. I won't mention her name now because I'd screw it up. But I'll introduce her here in a bit. She's got an audience of 3 or 4 million from Ukraine and she's got an interesting view of the world. So part of this is not just to talk about the current situation, it's to talk about how do we organize better because thank God that we have Elon Musk and he opened up X, opened up, you know, bought Twitter and turned it into X. And we have this great platform which is great. But if that changes and you just don't know, where else do you go? Where's, where? What are the battlefields of the future that we are going to have to operate on? And you know, and as you know, you help me, you know, promote it, you know, Boone Cutler, you know, God rest his soul, he and I wrote the book on fifth generation warfare and that's kind of where we're at. That's where we're at. We're going to talk a little bit about that.
- [08:44]
Jack Posobiec
I think we should. And even before we get into that, I was going to say though, just picking up what you were saying, that we've seen so much how in this town and obviously you in your past position as the director of the dia, you've seen how the flow of information and by the way, not just classified information, but the flow of public open source information.
- [09:07]
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- [11:07]
General Michael Flynn
Stand in our way and our golden age has just begun.
- [11:10]
Ava Vlaar
This is Human Events with Jack Posovic.
- [11:12]
Jack Posobiec
Now it's time for everyone to understand what America first truly means. Welcome to the second American revolution. Did you know that in the last six weeks, 86 million AT&T users had their name, address and Social Security numbers leaked? Or that the CCP is harvesting massive amounts of Americans personal data to train Deep Seek and other AI systems? When you're online doing the work like I am, you need digital camouflage. And that's why I've partnered with our newest show sponsor, Patriot Protect. Patriot Protect removes your personal data from the Internet. Whether it's Google, Amazon or Apple. Your personal data will be wiped so the scammers and cyber criminals and swatters like the ones that came after the Poso family will not and cannot find your data and you can take back your security and privacy. Once Pager Protect scans and scrubs your personal information, they'll continuously monitor your info to make sure every new instance of a possible data breach is eliminated immediately. I'm talking 24. 7 protection for the cost of keeping the porch lights on. The only thing worse than getting hacked is knowing you could have stopped it and didn't take action when you could have. So go to patriot-protect.com poso and use promo code posto for 15% off a yearly subscription. That's patriot-protect.com so. And use promo code poso for 15% off a yearly Subscription, patriot-protect.com/boso whether it's. So if you're getting your, your news, you're getting your worldview, your mindset from cnn, from msnbc, from the Washington Post. I've always seen this dichotomy where people will will get that mindset and then they bring it into the skiff, right? So that everything that they're looking at is colored already by what they just watched on tv. So the question is, how do you drive good policy if you're starting from a bad mindset? And that's where I think independent media and the independent drivers of these narratives. You mentioned Ukraine, you know, the battlefield right there. Who's winning? Right. Depends on who you're listening to, what's really going on on the ground. It depends on who you're. Are you following this guy? You're following that guy. And as usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But I think that's one of the key differences in what we've seen driving President Trump's rise, and really the rise of alternative media, is that it's not just having a difference of opinion. We're having a difference of fact at this point.
- [13:32]
General Michael Flynn
Right? Exactly. Exactly. And I think the word that I would capture with everything you just said is discernment. So discernment has to do with. And I'll just use my definition of what I believe it is. Discernment has to do with looking at an issue, looking at information, taking a deep breath, stepping back, and not just emotionally rolling with whatever the initial judgment is. Okay. Because I just use the word judgment, which is different than discernment. So discernment. What I. And I'll talk about this here with this crowd. You know, let's not let emotions drive us. It has driven me at times. And let's take a step back, look at the information that's being presented, make some judgments about the information and about the facts, do some research. Because if you want to continue in this world where people really do believe you because you're an honest guy and you come across very honestly, then you have to drive for the truth. Right? Because the one thing about the truth, and I always. I learned this in the, you know, as a young officer, there's three sides of the truth. There's your side, there's my side, and then there's the truth. So what we want to try to do is drive ourselves closer to what the actual truth is. And do you ever find it? I don't know. But you can get. You can get really close to it. Especially, you know, another word that you just use is facts, right? And it's like, well, if I see a red car, it's a red car, right? But you go, nope, it's blue and it's moving, and it's like, no, it's a red car and it's parked, and it's actually a red car. And it's parked. I can't. I, I'm not sure I can convince that person that says it's a blue car and it's moving. I just don't know if I can convince them. So I don't want to waste a lot of time with that person. And if there's people that are listening to them, you know, they're, they're injured, I think that they're intellectually injured by that kind of discernment, if you, if, you know, if that makes sense. And to me, that's part of what we have here. And we have people here that are on both sides of, not necessarily the political aisle. We'll see, but we definitely have people on different issues that are on different sides for some of these international issues. We're not here today to talk about the current events of the day. We're here to talk about understanding the future of alternative media because as we've seen, and we're going to show a couple of charts here, we've seen the decline of corporate media, the decline of advertising for sure, and the rise of advertising and the rise of alternative media because people know, well, that's where people are going, right? And we see, you know, Barack Obama recently, I think in the last couple of days he's been out there and I think a month or so ago he was out in Stanford, if I'm not mistaken, where he was talking about, he's talking about we have to relook how, you know, the information domain operates. It's like, what is that? What are you talking about here? So we, we do have people from Congress, a couple of people from Congress later in the afternoon they're going to come in and talk about legislation, legislation here in the United States of America to basically protect us against censorship. And we also have somebody who's going to talk about some, some of the European Union type legislation that is occurring there too, because there's censorship going on all over the world. We've got to fight that. We've got to fight that, right? I mean, I have my views on what I, what I like to see or what I believe should be on, on a social media platform. I mean, I have a nonprofit that fights child trafficking as an example, right. So I don't, you know, anybody that gets involved in that. So we, so this is where people are going to have to judge what is actually displayed on social media, on the alternative media. And, you know, and that's part of the discussion. I don't know what the final result will be here today. Other Than that we will learn some lessons. We'll bring those lessons together and I'll mention it here on your show, we are everybody here. And to include yourself, will get a Save the date for an alternative media gala where I want to recognize the excellence that we have in alternative media. I want to recognize some of the new networks. I want to recognize some of the courageous podcasters out there, some of the courageous people that are from social media, that are, that are telling the truth. And when you check them, you know, when AI checks them or Grok or ChatGPT or whatever checks them, or people who actually know about the issue check them, they're honest about it. They're very honest about it. And I think that that honesty from a political angle is what Donald J. Trump, that's why he's the president, because he was so brutally honest with, you know, with the audience that said, yeah, that's what we want, you know, and I'm a, I'm a big fan of Trump. I don't, I don't agree on everything that he does, but I, but he is, you know, the most, you know, I mean, probably one of the greatest leaders that we've had in terms of our time, the times that we are facing, and thank God we have him, because otherwise the alternative, speaking of alternative media, we wouldn't have alternative media. We would have something that is so egregious had we gone the other direction.
- [18:39]
Jack Posobiec
On social media and had his own true social and been banned. And I think that speaks to the power of these networks as it is, because if they can ban a sitting president of the United States, then who's actually in charge? Because if they decide the president can't have access to speak anywhere, it'd be unheard of to say the president's speech can't be broadcast on national TV in the 60s, 70s, 80s, but suddenly he can't be on social media. It's totally unheard of. And then they caught off. That's right.
- [19:05]
General Michael Flynn
Corporate networks, they cut off the President, United States, and he's, when he's in the middle of a, of an, of a bilateral conversation with a country that matters. Right. I mean, and all of them do, but certainly a top five or a top ten economy, right?
- [19:18]
Jack Posobiec
Well, one of the pieces I wanted to, I wanted to get into is that, you know, we, we've been fighting over human events. And, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's small, but it's big in the sense this case out in Utah with the murder Charlie Kirk Our friends, the lawyers for the defendant, they just filed. And it gets to the censorship question because they just filed a motion that cameras should be banned from the courtroom, that they don't want that to be shown. And I think this is a huge problem. And it gets to this problem of censorship and this, this, you know, affinity for censorship, that we seem to have an appetite for it that we didn't used to have as a country. The whole point of putting something out publicly, especially in a trial, right, is that the public can be an open society. The public should be a check on the process. So you've got a piece of evidence, the prosecutor's got evidence, the defense has an argument, they're fighting it back and forth. And of course, the jury decides guilty, not guilty. The judge, you know, hopefully calls balls and strikes. But the public has the ability to come in and be a check on the entire process because they could, maybe they could, you know, elect a new judge. If they don't like the judge, they could do something to fight it out in federal court, etc. So when I look at that case specifically, and you're talking about these networks and there are. And you mentioned fifth generation warfare. I look at the assassination of Charlie Kirk as an example of fifth generation warfare in action. And I went on cnn, I think just a day or two after it happened, and they asked me, they said, are we in a civil war? And I said, we are seeing asymmetric civil warfare. And that's the definition of fifth generation warfare.
- [20:54]
General Michael Flynn
I mean, first of all, Charlie Kirk was a monumental, historic figure, bar none. I mean, he just, you know, and it's interesting because I was in a conversation last night, and then I, before I, you know, wrapped up the night here, I went through all of my text messages that I have with Charlie over the, you know, over the last couple of years, just to, just to, you know, to kind of, you know, as a, as a reminder of, of his personal touch that he had just, I mean, not on, just on me, but he had a personal touch on humanity. So it's a real, it's, you know, it's a tragedy what happened. I don't know the legal issues of Utah, but I think that the American people, particularly for this, this, you know, this assassination of Charlie Kirk, I think the American people deserve to see justice in action, you know, in a very transparent way. It's supposed to be blind or not blind. Right. I mean, so we, we don't want to. Or justice is blind. What we want is, we want, you know, sort of an open, you know, we're not interacting. It's the prosecution, the defense, the judge. It's still that system. So people begin to gain a sense of trust again, because the American people do not trust the justice system. They don't. And for very, very, oh, believe me, so, so they don't trust it. I mean, look at what, you know, as Trump came back into office, look at how the judiciary just has slow rolled him to the tenth, you know, the nth degree and, and he's still gotten going through that. Never mind, you know, this, this trial that's going to go on with, you know, to determine what actually did occur, to get to that truth. Right. You're your truth, my truth, and what is the truth. And that's what we want. And on that note, I still believe that there are a lot of questions that are out there and I think that those questions that are out there, they need to be resolved. And maybe, maybe if this is where the Department of Justice is going to have to come in really strong to fight, to say no, Judge, we want this trial open.
- [23:07]
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- [24:08]
iHeartRadio Announcer
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers are into, true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only Iheart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results Growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-IHEART. One more time, call 844-844-iHEART and get podcasting working for you.
- [25:08]
General Michael Flynn
You talk about influencers. These are influencers, and they're friends of mine.
- [25:13]
Ava Vlaar
Jack.
- [25:15]
General Michael Flynn
Where's Jack? Jack. He's got a great job. Believe if I read right and people can check me on this, that the. That Utah courts are allowed, they allow to have cameras inside.
- [25:28]
Jack Posobiec
So they have a rule in Utah that's actually very permissive for cameras. And I don't know the exact citation. It's like 4104, Utah rule. And it says it's the. There is a presumption that courtroom trials will be televised or what they say reported on using electronic devices. So they have the presumption of openness and transparency written into the law, which is actually very open compared to some of the other states. I think it's great.
- [25:54]
General Michael Flynn
I mean, unless it has to be sealed because something's classified or whatever, and I'm okay with that.
- [25:58]
Jack Posobiec
But even then, I mean, you can. You can think of potential reasons.
- [26:02]
General Michael Flynn
Yeah, there's permutations of it, but, yeah, for this particular one, because it's Charlie Kirk, and he was such a historic figure in actually in world history, you know, as I look back at different types of people, which is something that I do study, Charlie's unique. He's very unique. And he was unique, you know, for this country going forward. And so it's a very. It's a tragedy that our country lost a great leader. And now I think that we should be fighting our government, our justice system, Justice Department should be fighting tooth and nail to keep this trial public, very public. And let's let everybody see what the. What's being presented.
- [26:41]
Jack Posobiec
I think the judge has yet to rule, so we'll see what happens. But we wrote over at Human Events, and Libby Emmons, our editor, had this great line that I just have to keep repeating it. She said, you know, Charlie didn't have a say in whether or not his murder would be public. That was on Livestream. And we do have a say, though, over the trial, so it should be public, too. And we know in this day and age, even. Even the fact that he. That he did the murder on Livestream. Right. That it occurred, that's a form of asymmetric warfare as well, because they Know, of course, when you see Charlie Kirk on campus, the clips are everywhere and everybody's watching when he goes and does these debates. So to do it on live video that way, not, you know, not when he's getting in or out of a car or something. It's meant as a form of an asymmetric attack, isn't it, on everyone who's watching?
- [27:31]
General Michael Flynn
Absolutely. It's intentional. It's very intentional. And to try to strike fear, I mean, that's what an act of terror is, an act of terrorism. By definition, it is meant to strike fear in the hearts and minds of whatever it is that's been attacked. You know, a society, a religion, whatever. And that's the whole purpose of it. So that's. It's to strike fear. And frankly, what I have seen since Charlie's murder is I've seen young people standing strong. And that's encouraging to me, who is a guy who, you know, kind of, you know, getting long in the tooth still, but still fighting for this country, but still fighting for this country by, by seeing these young people who are sort of the, you know, the, the future Charlie Kirks in different places. Like, it's like, you know, it's like the apostles, right? They get anointed and then they go around the world to preach the gospel, right? So that to me is very, very encouraging. And that's, that's a legacy and that's something that we want to encourage. That's why I think that this is another reason why this trial needs to be very transparent.
- [28:44]
Jack Posobiec
They're telling me the time, but if I have just time for one more question, this dust up that we've seen between, you know, and sort of going after these left wing networks, they're talking about a dust up. FBI, nctc, people arguing over who's got authority to go after these networks, et cetera. What would you say to come in from your perspective, having been in the ic, having been a leader there, is there a way to get over these turf battles? Is there a way to set up, you know, a JTF or something? Because at the end of the day, it's about disrupting the networks and keeping people safe, not about who gets credit.
- [29:17]
General Michael Flynn
Yeah. In fact, if you're worried about who gets credit, then we're in the. You're in the wrong business. You know, credit will come when others give it to you. Right. So first of all, this latest dust up, the way I understood it was that there was a meeting in the, in the White House, in the Situation Room, and it was Leaked. It was leaked. So there's a, so there's a crime right there. So somebody, somebody said what happened in that meeting to the media. So everybody that was in that meeting should be given a one time poly. So that's what I would do. So if I was the vice president, United States or the president, I would say get everybody back in there and I'll give you the question. Give them a one time poly to see who leaked that information to. I think it was to the Washington Post. Right. I think that was the first or the times. It was one of the first ones that I had seen, number one. So that's okay, get that off the table. But I do think that clearly the FBI has jurisdiction. So it's a jurisdictional issue, but there's too many questions out there that still remain. So instead of having an infighting and who's going to get credit for what? I think the bigger question is, you know, what do we believe? I look at myself as an American citizen. What do the American citizens believe right now that are, that are here? And these people represent, you know, 75 million of them. Right. So what do they believe? They believe that there's more to it. So I think from the perspective of the administration and the perspective of certainly the Department of Justice, it ought to just be. Look, we're looking at everything. We are looking at every single angle, not just of the trajectory of the bullet, but we're looking at every angle of this investigation. We are going to dig, dig, dig, because Charlie Kirk deserves it, okay? His legacy deserves it. The American people deserve it. The people that Charlie Kirk was leading, you know, as a huge movement, they deserve it. So if something comes, you know, if new evidence becomes available, we're not going to close this thing. We're not going to shut our eyes and say, open and shut case, it's a done deal. I think if they, if they said that to the American people, I think that, that, that the American people go, okay, that, you know, we're going to trial, we'll see what happens. We're going to.
- [31:30]
Jack Posobiec
One of the constructs that I've, you know, that I've been pitching is let's get a joint interagency task force and have it not just on this, but on all left wing violence.
- [31:38]
General Michael Flynn
All networks probably have something like that. I might, you know, they, you know, Cash and Dan are too smart to not do something like that. The intel community, you know, the people that are doing this, they, my guess is they probably have that. The challenge is, is that you're going to, you're going to get different things. I mean we cannot deny the things that we have seen. Right. So videos and such. You can't deny this back to the, back to the truth and discernment. So all the, I think all that I get, I get it all the time is just let us know that there's an open investigation. We're looking at everything. And I think if that was the answer, I think the, I think everybody would, they wouldn't shut up and go home, but they would at least temper down and say, okay, the FBI's got this and I believe that they do. But I do believe that there's, you know, there's other things that must be looked at. There has to be looked at because we have already learned this with the assassinations of many people going back to the 60s. Right. And we've learned this with other school shootings. When we look at the cell phone of an individual and we see that that person did so they're in touch with, there's no doubt factual now that there are other connections to these shooters that are out there.
- [32:59]
Jack Posobiec
Your staff has given me the look. You've been incredibly generous with your time.
- [33:03]
General Michael Flynn
Thank you.
- [33:03]
Jack Posobiec
Thank you so much and thank you for having me today.
- [33:08]
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- [34:08]
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- [35:10]
General Michael Flynn
Where's Jack? Where is he? Jack, I want to see you. Great job, Jack. Thank you. What a job you do. You know, we have an incredible thing. We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys. And these are the guys who've been.
- [35:28]
Jack Posobiec
Getting politician Freedom has never been free. And lately we've been reminded of just how high the cost can actually be. Growing violence is meant to shake us, but it should only strengthen our resolve to never back down. And that's why Patriot Mobile exists. For over 12 years, they've been defending faith, family and freedom while providing the same or better premium network access on all three major U.S. networks. Unlimited data, mobile hotspots, international roaming, they do it all. When you switch, you don't sacrifice quality or service. Hundreds of thousands have joined the movement by switching their cell service to Patriot Mobile. Now every time they pay their bill, they're supporting the first Amendment, the second amendment, the sanctity of life and our veterans and first responders. Switching is easy. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Their 100%. US based customer service team can activate you in minutes on the phone. Call 972 Patriot or visit patriotmobile.com poso today. Use promo code POSO for a three month of service. That's patriotmobile.com poso or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. Really excited to be sitting down with European firebrand freedom fighter. A fighter for her people, a fighter for her civilization, and a wayward former Human Events Daily co host, Ava Flor. What's up, Ava?
- [36:45]
Ava Vlaar
Hi Jack. It's great to see you.
- [36:47]
Jack Posobiec
Now, do I, do I have this correct? When was the last time you were in the United States?
- [36:51]
Ava Vlaar
Yeah, so the last time I was in the United States was 19 December 2023 at America Fest.
- [36:59]
Jack Posobiec
And what were you doing at America Fest? Hosting with you hosting human events daily. Wow, look at this. I remember we had the we had the American shaman on. You remember that?
- [37:08]
Ava Vlaar
Oh, my God. My husband keeps on saying that he wants to meet him, so I'm happy you bring that up.
- [37:13]
Jack Posobiec
Are you serious?
- [37:14]
Ava Vlaar
Yes. He's like, I need to meet that man.
- [37:15]
Jack Posobiec
Your husband was. Why does he want to meet him?
- [37:17]
Ava Vlaar
Because he's like. It's.
- [37:18]
General Michael Flynn
To him.
- [37:19]
Ava Vlaar
My husband's Italian. Right. It's like the most incredible thing, a guy like that, like, the way he's dressed. He's like, I need to understand this man. I need to understand his psyche. I need to understand American politics.
- [37:29]
Jack Posobiec
And, like, you know, producer Faz is really good friends with him. So Faz, please set that up. And I think he's out in Arizona anyway, so you'll have to come back. We have to come back to Amfest and then. And then you can meet him. Oh, I would love to. We'll see. We'll see. December, although the same this time, I wanted to say. No, of course not. And I wanted to say, though, you know, you gave me a very nice call after. After Charlie's murder and even. Even beyond that, on a personal level, you gave a speech at the Tommy Robinson rally, I think, just three days after Charlie's assassination. Tell us what it felt like to be up there. How many people were there? And just from a personal level, thank you for doing that and turning that into this sort of interesting interplay of Western civilization. Charlie, what he stood for, everything the movement stands for. I mean, you can't even really put into words what that moment was.
- [38:20]
Ava Vlaar
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, thank you for. For bringing it up. Because that rally, I mean, it was, of course, it was completely transformed after.
- [38:30]
Jack Posobiec
Because it was already set.
- [38:31]
Ava Vlaar
It was already set, you know, for weeks. For weeks.
- [38:34]
Jack Posobiec
We were thinking, maybe, will I go? And. I don't know. We were thinking about it.
- [38:37]
Ava Vlaar
Yeah, yeah. Tommy Robinson. Hudson organized it, and it was like. It called the United the Kingdom Rally. So it was very nationalist, you know.
- [38:45]
Jack Posobiec
Event that was at his 2018 rally. So that's why I was thinking, you know, maybe. Maybe go back and do another one, you know?
- [38:50]
Ava Vlaar
Yeah, yeah, next time. You should.
- [38:52]
Jack Posobiec
I will.
- [38:52]
Ava Vlaar
But it was, you know, of course, we were expecting people to come out waving their flags, talking about things like re migration. And when I went there, I saw, of course, a sea of flags, but I also saw Charlie's portrait, like, everywhere. Everywhere. So it completely transformed the event in and of itself. Like. And personally, I mean, I told you on the phone, right, that it was. It was genuinely different this time. I was, for the first time, not Excited to go because spirits were just so heavy. You know, we were afraid, we were sad, and it just. We were only thinking about Charlie and what had happened. And also, on a personal note, like, if I'm honest, my husband and I, you know, when we saw the images of what happened to Charlie, and in the days afterwards, we're just upset, crying and also scared. Scared, like, okay, this just happened to one of our bravest warriors. And now we're settled to go to London and stand on the stage, you know, at a protest.
- [40:00]
Jack Posobiec
And not inside. Outside.
- [40:01]
Ava Vlaar
Not outside. Not inside. It's outside. And there is no, you know, there's no way that, you know who's going to be in front of you there. And, of course, millions of people were set to come. So it was like I was a bit afraid for the first time in my life, which is a feeling that. I don't know. Of course, you know, you get nervous sometimes if you have to perform and you have to go in front of a large audience, but this was a totally different experience.
- [40:25]
Jack Posobiec
So why do it then?
- [40:26]
Ava Vlaar
Because we had to, you know, because if you then say, okay, we're not going to go. I'm not going to go, then the people who killed Charlie got what they wanted, so we had to go. And I'm really glad afterwards that we went, because it was incredible, the energy that we felt there. I think what happened to Charlie amplified that by, you know, number that I can't even quantify. It was unlike anything that I've ever seen before. And you have been to tons of political rallies. I've been to tons of. Of political rallies. This one was different. It was different not just in numbers. It was different in energy. And of course, the media lies about it. They were like. I think the BBC was saying that there were 110,000 people there, which is, like, funny because we had helicopters flying over. Everyone with eyes can see the images. There were millions of people out there in the beginning. Like, we spoke to police officers who were saying, we think that there are about 3 million people here. I mean, it was definitely closer to that than to what they. The BBC said.
- [41:26]
General Michael Flynn
There's.
- [41:27]
Jack Posobiec
There's been some, you know, undercurrents, I think, that rose to the surface in not only Charlie's murder, but in this rally with Tommy Robinson, this idea that we're actually in a fight for Western civilization itself. And I. I actually brought that up when I spoke at Charlie's memorial. I say, I hope. I hope. And I actually believe that 100 years from now, 200 years from now, when they look back and they say, how was Western civilization saved? They will point back, and one of the two or three moments they'll point to was that the murder of Charlie Kirk was what saved the west because it galvanized people into what we were actually fighting for.
- [42:09]
Ava Vlaar
I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. It transformed everything for everyone, I think, in this fight. And of course, we knew that this is a dangerous fight to fight. Right. We were talking on the phone. Of course I called you because I wanted to know also how you were doing personally, because I know you were very close to Charlie. But we were talking about, like, the. What's at stake here and how. We were aware of that coming from the Netherlands. And you knew both names. We talked about the political assassinations of Pimfer Town and Dale Van Gogh. You know, two of our most, I would say, prominent political figures 20 years ago in my country were assassinated. Both of them in broad daylight. So one of them, of course, was a right wing politician. He was about to become the prime minister in the next elections. That's how, you know, how popular he was, how different maybe our fate would have looked if he had, in fact become the prime minister. I think quite different. And Tevan Goh was a journalist who was very critical of Islam and he got murdered by an Islamist. Been for time, got murdered by a climate activist. So two major political assassinations more than 20 years ago. I grew up knowing that. So going into this, I've always known, you know, that this is a real possibility, that we are, you know, on the right, where we're arguing for freedom of speech. Speech. We're arguing for freedom in general. We're arguing for our national identity to preserve. But on the other side, there are people who want to kill us.
- [43:44]
Jack Posobiec
And those assassinations, if I remember correctly, they were in public, right?
- [43:47]
Ava Vlaar
Yeah, both of them were in public.
- [43:49]
Jack Posobiec
You know, I forget if I ever told you this, but one of the very first political events that I ever put together was on my college campus in 2009 when I brought your wielders to campus. And he brought with him Lars Bilkes, the cartoonist. Right. And this is, you know, we're coming up almost 20 years ago that. And that's how I knew about this violence, and that's how I knew about how horrific the situation had become in the eu. And also the same. At the same time, I understood that, you know, this fight is very serious. This fight is absolutely lethal if you come out and speak the wrong thing. But at the same time, you can't stop just because the enemy is angry. You can't stop just because you made someone upset. In fact, that shows you that what you're doing is potentially, it's working, it's gaining traction, you're actually winning. In fact, it's actually a signal you should do more.
- [44:53]
Ava Vlaar
Of course, yes, they wouldn't want to kill us if they weren't afraid of us. So clearly there is power within our voices and there's power within what we do. And it's, it would be the coward's way out, right, if we were to stop, we have to continue doing what is right because we, we both know that this is not just about politics. This is a spiritual battle. We are fighting for good. You know, we were fighting for God. And this is not the only life that we will live. So knowing that, you really don't have another option, I think, than to continue and keep on trying to make change for the better. And in Europe, I mean, like I said, this is more than 20 years ago that these two major assassinations happened in just my small little country. Right. But it says a lot about the political atmosphere there and it hasn't gotten better necessarily. I mean, the right wing of course, is gaining ground.
- [46:09]
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- [47:09]
iHeartRadio Announcer
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- [48:11]
General Michael Flynn
Jack is a great guy. He's written a fantastic book. Everybody's talking about it. Go get it. And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event. And we're going to turn it around and make our country.
- [48:24]
Jack Posobiec
Amen. And we're back with Ava Blar. Ava, of course, has abandoned human events daily for the last couple years. She's run back to Europe, but we, we roped her back in and something.
- [48:39]
Ava Vlaar
Else to do, you know, got married, had a baby.
- [48:41]
Jack Posobiec
I mean, come on, right? Somebody was running around saying, be a rebel, start a family. And then. And someone decided to listen. These things, I don't know how they happen. But what's amazing is, so we've been talking about some of the, obviously the horrific things that happened to Charlie, the horrific things happened to great patriots in your home country. But there is something amazing that's happened and that's been in the wake of Charlie's murder, in the wake of his assassination. We've seen this just global movement, I would say, of people who are now waking up to the real truth of leftist political violence that's going on and Islamist political violence, which is also something that we're facing. But at the same, and you look at the people talking about the grooming gangs in London, which has, of course, been Tommy's story from day one, and the fact that that is now a mainstream story, a mainstream scandal. Keir Starmer, of course, pushing these crazy Netflix videos to try to, oh, it's white children and white boys. That's who's doing it. And people to see the truth. And there is now a youth movement that's, to my mind, as an outsider, it seems like it's all across Europe fighting for re migration, fighting for truth, for the just the historic native lands of the European people, which is something that if you said publicly 10 years ago, I mean, you would be censored, you'd be be banned, you'd be silenced, you'd be ostracized from society.
- [50:09]
Ava Vlaar
That's absolutely right.
- [50:10]
Jack Posobiec
And now it's the number one movement. Tell us what's going on.
- [50:13]
Ava Vlaar
I mean the things that Wilders, for example, was vilified for for so many years was in like a cordon sanitaire. Right. As we always say, he was completely ostracized. Those things are like nothing compared to the stuff that we now say on the. Right, right. Like he was just saying like, okay, no, like, you know, we're not just talking anymore about like, oh, maybe there are some cultural differences between people who come from, you know, an Islamic background and Christians. We're saying no, look, we're about to become minorities in our own countries. We need remigration.
- [50:50]
Jack Posobiec
We say New York City right now, where next week we are going to have a foreign born Muslim will become, and I think more than likely will become the mayor of America's greatest city.
- [51:00]
General Michael Flynn
Right?
- [51:00]
Ava Vlaar
No, but we are having, that's the thing. I think that's, it's really, it's a good sign, right, that we have all these young people, especially also what happened to Charlie. I think it was the ultimate sign once again that it doesn't matter how reasonable you are because Charlie was an extremely reasonable young man. Right.
- [51:17]
Jack Posobiec
He's far more reasonable than me. I'm not very reasonable at all.
- [51:19]
Ava Vlaar
I think that I could count myself more your side of the, of the game in that sense. But they still killed him. Right. So I think that that's what people also realize now that you might as well just say what you really want to say. And so if things have become more normalized, the Overton window has been pushed, we in Europe are having actual conversations now, which is absolutely necessary, about how civic nationalism just doesn't work, not at this rate. You know, like we cannot talk about assimilation and integration of millions and millions of foreign young men. It just doesn't work. Once white people in their own homelands become minorities, we have a real issue on our hands. Right. Because that means that those countries are not going to be the countries that they always have been.
- [52:03]
Jack Posobiec
I'll give you a great example that we're seeing in New York right now because when you look at this race, so there's, there's two Democrats that are in the lead, there's also one Republican. And so it's a split three way race. But we look at the two Democrats, the native born New Yorkers are going for Cuomo, who was, is the son of the former governor and he was a former governor himself. The foreign born New yorkers are almost 100% in lockstep for the immigrant candidate. This, and this guy is as far left as they come. He is a cultural Marxist. And by the way, people say, oh no, it's just about economics and housing and that's all he cares about. You can go look at his timeline. This guy is targeted white people. He said that. He said that the NYPD is the tool of the idf. He says that he is going to confiscate the wealth specifically from white people and hand it out to, to everybody else. He had a line in 2020, he said the black and brown alliance will defeat white supremacy. He's been very clear about where he stands. And yes, he's charming and he puts on these affectations like, oh, he's just a nice normal regular guy, but you can just go roll back the clock to oh, I don't know, about six months ago. And he's been using all of this rhetoric. This is, I keep saying it's Radio Rwanda for white people. And that's exactly what's going to happen in New York City when he becomes mayor. And I think it's because you guys in Europe have seen all of these issues across so many cities. Obviously London, national level and national level.
- [53:30]
Ava Vlaar
We'Re not just talking about the big cities anymore. And that's I think what people of New York need to understand. It's not just New York, like it's going to come to the country sites too. If you look at what is happening in Europe, all of the assaults that we're talking about, right, the rapes, the murders, they used to happen in the big cities alone. Let's say 20 years ago we already saw that connection between crime and immigration. Now it's happening in the countrysides. So the message, I think that the people are in Ireland, it's everywhere, everywhere. So the message that the people are pushing this agenda, want to give you is that you can't hide like that little, you know, quaint Dutch town with the windmills in the back. You're not safe there either anymore. Like that's over. And so of course you need to stop it now in New York before it spreads out. And you're not safe anywhere anymore. Because that is our situation now. We are no longer in the position to say, okay, we need to close the borders. And that's fine, that's enough. It's not going to be enough. Like with our demographics in northwestern Europe, every single country is heading for becoming a minority in their Own, like for the native population to become a minority in their own country by the end of this century and oftentimes even before the first half of this century ends. So we're talking 25 years.
- [54:49]
Jack Posobiec
You look at the school classes, these photos of, you know, here's what this school class looks like. Kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade. And suddenly you're saying, wait a minute, you know, if I'm in, you know, if I'm looking at, looking the other side, where are the Dutch kids? I'm looking at England. So where are the British kids? We look at Ireland, where are the Irish kids?
- [55:06]
Ava Vlaar
And why wouldn't we be allowed to say that we want that? Why wouldn't we, as Dutch people, as the Dutch native people, say, be able to say we want the Netherlands to stay Dutch? Why wouldn't we be able to say we want Germany to say German, we want France to say French? You know, that's. I think it's common sense and I think it's, it's.
- [55:25]
Jack Posobiec
You never hear these issues with the Asian countries. No one ever says about China, no one ever says about Japan, which has incredibly low immigration. China, of course, has been having their economic boom without needing migrants. Funny how that works that they're able to do so.
- [55:40]
Ava Vlaar
Diversity means less white people. This is specifically an agenda targeting white people. And I can say that as a European, like, just look at the numbers. It's right there. And that's something that I'm worried about. And I would like your opinion on that, Jack. Like, give us some advice. Because, yes, it's true that we are now having these discussions like we're pushing the Overton window, the youth is waking up. But institutionally we're not gaining much ground. Like when we're talking about the regulations, when we're talking about the eu, when we're talking about our governments, like, this is still happening and we're running out of time really, really quickly. So I don't know if the young generation that is maybe has woken up to this fact is going to grow up fast enough to get into those positions of power, to make change. That's like my main worry right now for us.
- [56:28]
Jack Posobiec
Look, I would say you just have to fight hard and hold the line wherever it is and hold people's feet to their fire. And you look, by the way, the youth movement in some countries has been very successful. You look at afdex, you even look at the youth movement in Poland, for example. Poland, a country which, funny enough, doesn't have these problems because they never accepted the migrants. And when I go to Poland, it's wonderful. Was there several times this year for the election and then the inauguration of Novrotsky. Huge, huge win. All of these issues came up during the election. And it's perfectly safe when you walk around Warsaw any time of night. Tanya and I got 6 million videos for just a, of a video of us walking around on like a Saturday night at midnight. And everyone's out there having fun, no crime whatsoever. And the economy is booming. It's absolutely booming. And you look at their youth movement started with youth marches just like what Tommy did in London. And they, they were able to leverage that into actually getting into political power. And from there now they have influence on the institutions because even if, and in multiparty democracy, even if they can't form a government, what they can do is be kingmakers. What they can do is hold that influence. And I look at everything that you're doing and so many of the other freedom fighters. I'm going to come back to Europe soon. We'll be there. It's great. Ava Vlaar, thank you so much for rejoining your former podcast Human Events Daily.
- [57:47]
Ava Vlaar
We should do this more often. Thanks Jack.
- [58:10]
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- [59:10]
iHeartRadio Sales Representative
You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing. You are listening to me. Which let's be honest, is kind of flattering. But my point Is ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard in the car, at the gym, on the couch while people are walking their dogs.
- [59:26]
Jack Posobiec
Who's a good boy?
- [59:27]
iHeartRadio Sales Representative
Who's a good boy.
- [59:28]
Jack Posobiec
You're a good boy.
- [59:29]
General Michael Flynn
That's right, dude. You're a good.
- [59:30]
iHeartRadio Sales Representative
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- [59:40]
iHeartRadio Announcer
This is an iheart podcast.