JONI TABLE TALK - DECEMBER 14th, 2025

Summary

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Joni Table Talk – December 14th, 2025

Podcast: Real America’s Voice (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Joni Lamb
Main Guests: Kimberly and Andrew Har, Nicole C. Mullen
Episode Theme: Healing from Life’s Deepest Hurts: Stories of Trauma, Survival, and Redemption
Original Air Date: December 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode of Joni Table Talk centers on stories of deep trauma, faith, and the resilience of the human spirit through God’s restorative power. The featured guests share firsthand experiences with abuse, betrayal, near-death moments, and the journey from devastation to true redemption—offering hope to anyone walking through pain, brokenness, or hardship. Drawing upon their personal testimonies and biblical wisdom, the guests discuss the process of healing, rebuilding trust, and finding purpose after tragedy. The episode also features a segment with Grammy-nominated artist Nicole C. Mullen, who shares her music and story of overcoming abuse, using biblical sheroes as inspiration.

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Key Segments & Discussions

1. Introduction: Previewing Kimberley and Andrew’s Redemption Story

[03:05–03:54]

• Joni Lamb introduces today’s focus: surviving life's deepest hurts and God’s power to restore life after trauma.
• The table is set for a gripping, movie-like testimony involving betrayal, domestic violence, and miraculous survival.

Memorable Quotes:

• “When your life completely falls apart, is it really possible to be whole again? …Our guest walked through abuse, trauma, and a near-death experience. And they're here to share their miraculous story of redemption…” – Joni Lamb [03:05]
• “It’s amazing what God can bring you through when you think there’s no way.” – Joni Lamb [03:57]

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2. Kimberly’s Journey: From Faithful Beginnings to Heartbreak

[05:03–07:40]

• Kimberly Har was raised in a Christian home and married a Christian man; they lived an upright, church-centered family life.
• Several years into marriage, she discovered her husband’s habitual struggle with pornography and sexual addiction, which escalated over time.
• Despite repeated forgiveness and attempts at counseling, unfaithfulness culminated in an affair. After 23 years of marriage and four children, Kimberly decided to divorce.

Memorable Quotes:

• “I did not want to divorce and our kids go between homes. So I made the decision to forgive and forgive and forgive again. But I didn’t have good boundaries...God doesn’t want us in relationships where there’s continual betrayal.” – Kimberly Har [06:36]

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3. Rebuilding & New Beginnings: Becoming a Therapist and Finding Andrew

[07:46–12:10]

• While raising her children as a single mom, Kimberly went back to school and became a therapist, intending to offer hope to others.
• Four years later, feeling led by God that she would remarry, Kimberly navigated online dating—enduring 13 unremarkable first dates before meeting Andrew (#14).
• Their first date was over coffee and breakfast; both recalled easily connecting through deep conversation—though, as Andrew humorously notes, he’s “an engineer type” and less demonstrative.

Highlights:

• “Where does a 50-year-old woman go to meet people? …I decided I was going to join a dating site.” – Kimberly [08:52]
• “We dated for four weeks, and he told me, ‘I want to marry you,’ but it wasn’t a question, so I wasn’t going to embarrass myself and say yes. So I just smiled. But we knew.” – Kimberly [12:44]

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4. Trauma Strikes: Domestic Violence and a Near-Fatal Shooting

[13:00–21:01]

• After four weeks of dating Andrew, Kimberly’s ex-husband, jealous and spiraling, attacked her violently at gunpoint—assaulting her for four hours after breaking into her home, and threatening to kidnap and kill Andrew.
• Forced at gunpoint, Kimberly was taken to Andrew’s home where her ex-husband shot Andrew ten times through a closed door and fled.
• Kimberly escaped, bloodied, to seek help and call 911; Andrew was left fighting for his life.

Memorable Quotes:

• “At 2:30, I woke up to my bedroom door crashing down…My ex-husband was intoxicated. He had a gun in his hand. And for the next four hours, I was assaulted.” – Kimberly [14:07]
• “I was struck 10 times with .45 caliber hollow point bullets.” – Andrew [16:54]
• “I was more upset about him [Andrew] than I was anything that happened to me that morning.” – Kimberly [20:18]

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5. Survival, Hospitalization, and the Difficult Early Days of Recovery

[21:01–24:07]

• Andrew suffered massive blood loss and underwent at least 13 surgeries, while Kimberly was left deeply traumatized and physically battered.
• Their respective adult children and families managed communication and recovery, initially keeping them apart for healing.
• Kimberly describes finding solace in worship and laying her trauma before God.

Quote:

• “I just laid down on that cement floor and I just wept…would you just sing over me and breathe life back into my body? Because I felt like such an empty shell.” – Kimberly [21:13]

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6. Reconnection, Engagement, and Moving Forward

[23:17–26:44]

• Andrew, once well enough, reached out to Kimberly via Facebook with the simple message: “I’m alive.”
• The two reunited secretly in the hospital as Andrew healed. Their love rekindled quickly—within weeks, they were engaged, and married four months later.
• Both describe the importance of healing—Kimberly especially needing to do spiritual and emotional work, Andrew experiencing a deepening faith after his brush with death.

Notable/Light Moments:

• “I looked at him and I shook my finger in his face and I said, ‘Andrew Har, you will never meet another woman like me.’” – Kimberly [25:36]

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7. Healing, Community, and Faith-Filled Restoration

[28:00–29:01]

• The discussion turns to the process of healing over the next eight years of marriage: Kimberly and Andrew support each other and build a blended family.
• Kimberly’s book, Healing from Life’s Deepest Hurts, is highlighted as a resource for therapeutic tools and hope.

Quote:

• “He was just such a…he really was the hands and feet of Jesus.” – Kimberly [28:54]

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8. Nicole C. Mullen Story & Music: Overcoming Abuse and Finding Freedom

[34:07–45:10]

• Nicole performs “My Redeemer Lives” and shares her own testimony of surviving an abusive marriage.
• The co-panelists praise biblical women like Abigail and Ruth as sheroes who acted with courage in difficulty.
• Nicole details her journey: growing up in a Christian home, marrying a controlling, abusive husband, and ultimately escaping while finding spiritual and emotional healing along the way.
• She emphasizes that even in abuse, God’s love is steadfast, and that seeking help is crucial.

Memorable Quotes:

• “In my valley I saw His kindness, His graciousness, His protection. When I thought He would be mad at me, [instead] He was like…I love you, I got you.” – Nicole C. Mullen [55:36]
• “God only has messed up people in His family because He came for messed up people.” – Nicole C. Mullen [50:32]

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9. Faith, Surrender, and the Power of Biblical Example

[40:08–59:08]

• Further discussion of Abigail and Ruth, their biblical courage, humility, and trust in God’s sovereignty.
• Nicole draws parallels between Job’s and her own suffering, discussing how God restored them after the night season.
• The episode closes with a call for faith, surrender, and assurance that God heals, restores, and never wastes pain.

Quotes:

• “You are not what happened to you. You are who God says you are: loved, chosen, and never alone.” – Joni Lamb [29:14]
• “I was grown and I wasn’t…” (on trusting herself despite red flags) – Nicole C. Mullen [52:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “When your life completely falls apart, is it really possible to be whole again?” – Joni Lamb [03:05]
• “I did not want to divorce and our kids go between homes…But I didn’t have good boundaries. I didn’t get the message about God doesn’t want us in relationships where there’s continual betrayal.” – Kimberly Har [06:36]
• “I knew at that point that I was done.” – Kimberly Har [07:39]
• “It just takes one rogue agent…” – Early Table banter about God’s grace in “movie-like” trauma [03:33]
• “I woke up to my bedroom door crashing down…for the next four hours, I was assaulted.” – Kimberly Har [14:07]
• “I was struck 10 times with .45 caliber hollow point bullets.” – Andrew Har [16:54]
• “Andrew Har, you will never meet another woman like me.” – Kimberly Har [25:36]
• “In my valley, I saw his kindness, his graciousness, his goodness, his protection.” – Nicole C. Mullen [55:36]
• “God only has messed up people in his family because he came for messed up people.” – Nicole C. Mullen [50:32]

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Key Takeaways and Guidance

• God’s Redemption: No story is too broken for God to heal; the journey from pain to restoration is possible for anyone.
• Courage and Support: Whether escaping abuse or walking through trauma, confide in someone, seek help, and trust that your story matters.
• Surrender & Faith: Healing often requires relinquishing control and allowing God to work, even when the situation feels impossible.
• Community Matters: The role of supportive friends, family, and even spiritual counselors/therapists is vital.
• Biblical Inspiration: Stories like those of Abigail, Ruth, and Job reinforce that God uses brokenness for glory and can resurrect hope from despair.
• Therapeutic Tools: Healing is both a spiritual and practical process; resources like Kimberly’s book can offer actionable steps.

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Final Words and Encouragement

[29:14, 59:19]

Joni Lamb closes the episode by reminding listeners that no matter how deep the pain or betrayal, God is able to heal, restore, and walk with you into freedom. The testimonies offered serve as beacons of hope:
“You are not what happened to you. You are who God says you are: loved, chosen, and never alone…” [29:14]

If you need prayer or support, don’t hesitate to reach out—never walk through darkness alone.

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For further resources:

• Kimberly Har’s book: Healing from Life’s Deepest Hurts
• Nicole C. Mullen’s book: It’s Never Wrong to Do the Right Thing
• Visit kimberlyhar.com and nicolecmullen.com

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If you or someone you know is experiencing abuse, please reach out to a trusted friend, counselor, or professional for help. You are not alone.

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Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

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[Joni Lamb]

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[Joni Lamb]

Hello, everyone. Well, you know, when your life completely falls apart, is it really possible to be whole again? Well, today's guest walked through abuse, trauma and a near death experience. And they're here to share their miraculous story of redemption from her book, Healing from life's Deepest Hurts. Wow. This is a good show. Going to be a good testimony. But before we get to that, joining me on the table, sample. Simons, did I catch you? Are you on the edge of your seat? Ready to hear this?

[Kimberly Har]

You know, just when I think we've heard all the stories.

[Joni Lamb]

True.

[Kimberly Har]

You bring one that we haven't heard.

[Joni Lamb]

But it's such a God ending. That is so great.

[Kimberly Har]

It's so going to encourage people today.

[Joni Lamb]

Totally, totally. When I was reading their story, Cindy, I got to the one part, I'm just like, what? This could be like a movie almost. It's horrific. No doubt, no doubt. I was reading it as well and.

[Host/Announcer]

I kept going, what?

[Joni Lamb]

It's amazing what God can bring you through when you think there's no way. Rachel Ann Brown. Everybody's going, what?

[Kimberly Har]

Literally.

[Joni Lamb]

So keep them on the edge of their seat.

[Kimberly Har]

You know the phrase, I would take a bullet for you? Well, this story takes that to a whole new room.

[Joni Lamb]

All right, Rachel's giving a little clue.

[Andrew Har]

I do it all over again.

[Joni Lamb]

She's giving a little clue. Kendrick, Dr. Kelly Dean. You ready? I am ready.

[Kimberly Har]

This is it is an amazing story.

[Joni Lamb]

I was just like watching reading the.

[Host/Announcer]

Notes going, oh, my word.

[Joni Lamb]

But God is amazing. Yeah, you got to that one part and you're like, what? Okay, so good. Kimberly and Andrew Har, welcome to the table.

[Kimberly Har]

Thank you for having us.

[Joni Lamb]

Thank you all for being here. It's going to be great. Well, Kimberly and Andrew Har have a powerful story of God's redemption. Kimberly endured betrayal, divorce, and domestic violence. But the Lord rewrote her story. And together they're here to share how God can take brokenness and turn it into beauty. Now we've got all of you waiting to hear what happened. Trust me, you want to sit down and hear the rest of the story. But Kimberly, it starts with you growing up in a Christian home.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

It does.

[Joni Lamb]

Loved God.

[Kimberly Har]

I gave my heart to Jesus at the age of five and I never walked away.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

You were younger than me. I was six, but okay, I was a little slow.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

I took you longer.

[Kimberly Har]

You were a little more of a sinner than me.

[Joni Lamb]

It took God a little bit longer to get me, but he knew he needed to get me early. That's for sure. But raised in a Christian home at 22. Get married. Married a Christian man.

[Kimberly Har]

That's right. Married a Christian man. Went to church, was on the praise and worship team, volunteered in the nursery, tithed. I mean, we did it all.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah, you were just a consummate good.

[Kimberly Har]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

Faithful churchgoer. You love this kind of. Oh, we appreciate steady people. Okay, so you get married. Tell us what happened.

[Kimberly Har]

I got married and it was probably about four to five years into our marriage. We'd already had our first child, and I discovered that my ex husband was involved with pornography. There was chat rooms, just kind of sexual addiction things. But as the years progressed, I would forgive him and he would, you know, repent. We'd be in church, we would feel like there was restoration, but it would slip back in.

[Joni Lamb]

So he would say he was sorry. But sometimes with these kind of addictions.

[Kimberly Har]

You need you do you really need professional help?

[Joni Lamb]

Well, and you need to shine the light on it and you need accountability.

[Kimberly Har]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

I know from being married to a psychologist and he deals with this kind of stuff and has for years that you've got to have accountability. And so there really was no accountability other than him saying, oh, I'm sorry, I'm going to go to church and repent.

[Kimberly Har]

Well, he actually went to some counseling. But you know, sex addiction is one of those things. Unless you keep the guards up, you've got to be very proactive and not get lackadaisical and lazy. And it's not like a once and done so. But because we had children, we had four children, and I did not want to divorce and our kids go between homes. So I made the decision to forgive and forgive and forgive again. But I didn't have good boundaries. I didn't get the message about God doesn't want us in relationships where there's continual betrayal. And so we were married 23 years when I discovered my ex husband was actually in an affair. And when I discovered that in 2013, I made the hardest decision of my life and I filed for divorce and I stayed. I just decided to be a single mom for four years, get our youngest children who were 15, got them to college so that they didn't have to worry about me giving my attention to anybody else. I knew at that point that I was done.

[Joni Lamb]

So you were going to then go back to school while this was going on?

[Kimberly Har]

No, I actually, I went back to school when our youngest children were in kindergarten and I became a therapist because I went to marriage counseling that I didn't Feel like was very hopeful. And so I decided I was going to go back to school and learn how to give people hope that were in similar situations.

[Joni Lamb]

Right.

[Kimberly Har]

And so when my youngest children were like in kindergarten, I was opening the book, studying at night soccer practice. I'm reading, you know, all my school books. And I became a therapist when I was 40 years old.

[Joni Lamb]

Wow.

[Kimberly Har]

And I'm 59 now, so I'm giving, kind of giving that away. But I've been doing it about two decades.

[Joni Lamb]

That's awesome. Okay, so you went through a divorce and you guys are like, there hasn't been any type of domestic violence before.

[Kimberly Har]

No, no.

[Joni Lamb]

And you're kind of trying to raise the children, but you're single. Right.

[Kimberly Har]

And so it was a friendly divorce.

[Joni Lamb]

It was a friendly divorce. So you're single for how many years?

[Kimberly Har]

Four years.

[Joni Lamb]

When you all of a sudden she feels her heart starting to open up a little bit. Like maybe, lord, do you have someone? And the Lord said to you, he.

[Kimberly Har]

Said, this is the year you're going to be married again. And I could swear I hear the words buckle your seatbelt. I just thought that meant it's gonna go fast. And so. But where I was 50 years old and where does a 50 year old woman go to meet people? Cause I wasn't a bar scene person. I had gone to our singles group at church and that was kind of pathetic. There just wasn't that many people there. And so I decided that I was going to join a dating site. Online dating.

[Joni Lamb]

And we have to be careful with that.

[Kimberly Har]

Oh, yes, yes. And I had 13 first dates that I decided this was not for me.

[Joni Lamb]

Tell me about one of the bad ones.

[Kimberly Har]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Before you get to number 14.

[Kimberly Har]

Oh, my goodness. I think the worst was when I had somebody that when they found out I was a therapist, they became therapy sessions. I had a man that told me, he said, yeah. My therapist tells me I'm really attracted to controlling women. And I'm thinking, and you're telling me this why? So it was interesting, but I was ready to hang it up. And then I saw you kind of.

[Joni Lamb]

Did your little 50 questions. Oh, yes. And you knew right away, like if it was so 13. Down, down, down.

[Kimberly Har]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

And you get to number 14, which is injury.

[Kimberly Har]

I get to number 14. We went out on April Fool's Day. And that's interesting. He was a big spender. He took me to a diner for breakfast. And so we went and we had an amazing first date. We just connected. One hour led to two, probably three And I think it was like I hadn't even made it out of the parking lot, and he was asking me to meet him the next day for dinner.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so, Andrew, we want to hear your side of the truth of this story.

[Andrew Har]

That's pretty accurate, except at the diner, the tables are kind of close together, and we were just coffeeing and drank and eating, and we had people around us, and people were giving us kind of looks because we'd run through the gamut of religion, you know, school, children, politics. Politics.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Oh, yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

How many questions did she ask you that day?

[Andrew Har]

It was 50 questions, for sure. And, of course, to some elderly sitting around us, were looking at us like.

[Joni Lamb]

What did you think when she walked in? Because so many times on the dating sites, they tell me that they don't actually look like the picture. Oh, yeah, right. So what did you think when she walked in?

[Kimberly Har]

And remember, you're going home with me.

[Andrew Har]

You know, I'm an engineer type, so I don't have a lot of highs or low emotions.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Yeah.

[Andrew Har]

And nice lady. And she was my fourth first.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, what was it about her that stood out to you?

[Andrew Har]

I think, you know, the online profiles for one. Lakes. I like water, you know, mountains, trees. You're from Canada. She was a Canadian citizen and just thought we had a lot of unique things in common.

[Joni Lamb]

And you liked your personality, I'm sure she's very personable. Yeah.

[Andrew Har]

Very funny.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay. We can't pull as much out of Andrew as we can, Kimberly. We're gonna keep working on that. Okay.

[Andrew Har]

She was pretty.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

That's what we were waiting on.

[Kimberly Har]

That's what they wanted.

[Host/Announcer]

He's an engineer.

[Joni Lamb]

We were waiting on that to say.

[Kimberly Har]

She was so cute.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, all right.

[Andrew Har]

So at that point, you're really not, you know, what's on the inside, it's so much less than what's on the outside, so.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah, but you gotta have the outside, too.

[Kimberly Har]

I know. He's digging a hole on our second date. I do have to say, he told me we went out for dinner and he said, I'm wearing my skinny jeans, but I can't breathe.

[Host/Announcer]

That's so funny.

[Joni Lamb]

That is hilarious. Okay, so y' all started dating, and you pretty much fell for him and he fell for you. And all your friends are like, you look really happy. We did, and you're glowing, right?

[Kimberly Har]

Yes. Yes. We dated for four weeks, and he told me, you know, I want to marry you, but it wasn't a question, so I wasn't going to embarrass myself and say yes. So I Just smiled. But we knew. We knew we were on our way to get married.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so take us to that night.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Har]

Yeah. Four weeks later, my ex husband asked me to come to his apartment and talk to her about our adult children. That was not uncommon. So I went there and he felt totally safe. Felt totally safe. He started talking about wanting to date again and for me to give him another chance. And I said, I've moved on. I said, and you need to move on too. And so he looked at me and he said, well, maybe I'm going to have to go talk to this guy. And I didn't realize at that time my ex husband had been stalking me. And so.

[Joni Lamb]

So he knew where Andrew lived.

[Kimberly Har]

He knew where Andrew lived.

[Joni Lamb]

He knew he had been seeing someone.

[Kimberly Har]

He did.

[Joni Lamb]

And he did not like it.

[Kimberly Har]

Right.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay.

[Kimberly Har]

So I called Andrew and I said, hey, can I stop by your house on my way home? And because I didn't want my ex husband to scare him off. And so I went to his house and I said, andrew, I'm so sorry. My ex husband may spread a rumor. He may harass you. I am so sorry. And I said, but Andrew, would you fight for me? And he looked down at me and he said, of course I would. And when I asked him, not having.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

A clue what that meant, he had.

[Joni Lamb]

No idea what was coming, folks. He had no idea.

[Kimberly Har]

And so when I asked him why, he said, because you're worth it. But within 24 hours, I went home and something again stirred inside me and said, lock your bedroom door. And I had locked my house many times because I was empty, nesting, living alone. But that night I locked my bedroom door. And at 2:30, I woke up to my bedroom door crashing down off the hinges. My ex husband was intoxicated. He had a gun in his hand. And for the next four hours, I was assaulted.

[Joni Lamb]

And he actually began to beat you in your face. Your body assaulted you?

[Kimberly Har]

Yep. Yep.

[Joni Lamb]

Four hours. And he was inebriated.

[Kimberly Har]

That's right. What was he saying when he first came in? The very first thing he told me was that he had come from killing my parents. Now he had not. But he knew I was very close to my parents. And so in that moment, I just believe God gave me a gift of calm. Because I told myself, you know what? You can grieve it later. There's nothing you can do right now. So put it on the shelf. And I just, I told myself, just pay attention to every one of his words.

[Joni Lamb]

You needed to be calm. Cause it could have escalated.

[Kimberly Har]

That's Right.

[Joni Lamb]

Did he put the gun.

[Kimberly Har]

I had a gun in my mouth up to my neck. I mean, there was holes in my bedroom wall. I mean, he shot my wall to let me know he was serious. After the assault, he told me that as punishment for ruining his life, he was going to kidnap me and he was going to drive me to Andrew's house and he was going to make me watch him murder Andrew. And so we got in the vehicle. I, under my breath, was, you know, praying for Andrew.

[Joni Lamb]

So he had a gun on you and said, get on, get in the vehicle.

[Andrew Har]

Mm.

[Kimberly Har]

So I got in the vehicle and we got to Andrew's house. My ex husband reached in the back seat for a gun and the bullets, and he. Yeah, and then he looked at me and he said, now you go do whatever you need to do. And he left the keys in the ignition. So I jumped into the driver's seat, heard three gunshots. So I knew Andrew would not survive. And I made an escape to a Super center where 911 was called.

[Joni Lamb]

Of course you look horrific, right? At this point. I mean, everybody's thinking what happened to you?

[Host/Announcer]

Right?

[Joni Lamb]

Because your face.

[Kimberly Har]

They just. I think they just wanted me to get in the warehouse where other people couldn't see me, you know, scare people and. Because, yeah, I was unrecognizable.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, Andrew, let's pick it up. Did he knock on the door? Why did you come to the door? It's like 6:30 in the morning.

[Andrew Har]

It was a knocking on the door and I had this translucent stained glass. A pretty big O, maybe three foot.

[Joni Lamb]

So you have like a wood door, but you have a glass in the middle. Okay.

[Andrew Har]

And I couldn't see him or he couldn't see me other than maybe shadows. And then just bullets just started coming through.

[Joni Lamb]

So you didn't even open the door?

[Andrew Har]

You didn't even open the door.

[Joni Lamb]

You just started shooting through the door.

[Andrew Har]

Said something like, coming, hold on. You know, when you. Somebody's.

[Joni Lamb]

And so how many times did he shoot you?

[Andrew Har]

I was struck 10 times with.45 caliber hollow point bullets.

[Joni Lamb]

And so where did he. Where did those bullets land?

[Andrew Har]

Twice in the leg, once in the femoral artery.

[Joni Lamb]

And that would be where you would lose a lot of blood. If you lost a lot of blood, where else did you were you shot.

[Andrew Har]

Twice in the back and then six times throughout my arm.

[Joni Lamb]

Goodness. My goodness. And the fact that nothing was. That's a miracle in and of itself, isn't it?

[Kimberly Har]

Of course.

[Joni Lamb]

You went to the ground. The door never opened. He Left and went running down the street.

[Kimberly Har]

I guess I had in my fight flight, freeze. I was going for help and made it all of 1 1/2 blocks. Now I circled several times looking for help, but, you know, I was just so scared myself.

[Andrew Har]

Six in the morning and you're trying to.

[Joni Lamb]

You're trying to stop at the first place, like, somebody help me. 911.

[Kimberly Har]

So I pulled up to the very front, ran in, screamed, Call911. But nobody was moving as quick as I wanted them to. And so I looked down in my hand, and there was a cell phone in my hand that I must have gotten from my ex husband's vehicle. And So I called 911 and I told him, get the police to his house. I don't remember. I don't think I knew the address. So I just said, get him to the house, but tell the police to be careful because this isn't going to end good. And then I was escorted into a warehouse to wait for an ambulance to come and get me. At this point, did you think he had passed away? I had, yes. I had no clue if he was alive, if he was dead. And I would not find that out until I was taken to a hospital. And I was in the emergency room. And I had met one of Andrew's adult children one time. And so he called my cell phone, who my adult daughter answered. And his son said, my dad's in and out of surgery. We don't know. It's touch and go. But that's where I found out he had been shot 10 times. And he said, but we just think our parents need to go their separate ways. And my heart sank. It was.

[Joni Lamb]

So the son's basically saying, don't come, don't call us.

[Kimberly Har]

From here on, we're gonna do our healing journeys.

[Andrew Har]

Our adult children are just trying to manage us.

[Joni Lamb]

Sure.

[Kimberly Har]

And protect us.

[Joni Lamb]

Right, Right. I was gonna ask you, Andrew, how close did you come to dying that day?

[Andrew Har]

I wish I knew. I was probably in and out of consciousness. And they said I lost 50% of my blood, which is almost fatal. Should be. And just miraculous.

[Joni Lamb]

So that obviously the ambulance and the people that got you there, they probably saved your life.

[Andrew Har]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

On the way to the hospital, how many surgeries did you have?

[Andrew Har]

At least 13 surgeries.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so, okay, let's go back to the scene. Where's your husband? Where are you?

[Kimberly Har]

My ex husband was actually. He was arrested, but as I was being taken out of the super center, I told the police officer, I said, I need to go to that vehicle and get my cell phone because I wanted to call my family. I didn't want them to see it on the news. And when I opened the passenger door of the vehicle, my ex husband was sitting behind the driver's, the steering wheel, and he was holding a gun up and pointing it towards me. So I screamed and dropped to the ground. A human shield of police officers came around me and, you know, I was ushered back to safety while they apprehended him. And then we were taken.

[Joni Lamb]

So they told him, put the gun down, get.

[Kimberly Har]

Seriously? I didn't hear what they said. They were just ushering me to safety.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so he was arrested. He was arrested, taken into custody. And so this whole thing is unfolding. You're in the hospital. What are they saying about your condition?

[Kimberly Har]

You know, I was having the typical X rays, making sure there was no broken bones in my face and skull. But all I could focus on was that I had lost Andrew. And I was more upset about him than I was anything that happened to me that morning. And so when I left the hospital, I went and stayed at my parents home just for a couple nights. And I had an aunt and uncle who gifted me their home for the summer. And when they were giving me a tour of their home, I looked outside and there was this beautiful big pergola with big rafters and swings and a big cement floor. And something just told me this is where my healing was going to begin. And so you're a therapist.

[Joni Lamb]

It's not like, you know, that kind of trauma, right?

[Kimberly Har]

I had walked many through trauma in 20 years, but this time it was me. And so Andrew and I would not hear from each other for about five to six weeks because he was in and out of surgeries. He was living with his son. And I had contact with one person, and that was Andrew's work assistant. And she was kind of like my mole. And so she told me, she said that when Andrew had first woken up, he wanted to be with me. But by the end of the first few days, he agreed we needed to go our separate ways. And so I was, you know, I was in a state of shock and my own healing. And so I just laid down on that cement floor and I just wept. And I told the Lord, I said, I don't have words to even pray. And I said, would you just sing over me and breathe life back into my body? Because I felt like such an empty shell. And I would play praise and worship music and that became my prayer. And in the beginning, I tried to take control and Tell God what he should do, how he should do it, when he should do it. And then I said, yeah. And then I said, and Lord, I trust you.

[Joni Lamb]

And by the way, can you do this, this and this?

[Kimberly Har]

Yes. Yes. And I had. I came to the point where I told the Lord, I don't want to trust you. I'm scared to trust you, because what if you don't give me what I want? And I even said, if Andrew is second best, I'll take it. I don't care about the best. I'll settle for Andrew. And I.

[Joni Lamb]

You had been through so much with your ex husband.

[Host/Announcer]

Yep.

[Joni Lamb]

And you saw so many qualities of steadiness.

[Kimberly Har]

I finally felt loved and cherished. And so it was really laying that down and surrendering to the Lord, saying, okay, God, if you don't give me what I want, I'm gonna probably complain and cry a bit, but I'm going to choose to trust.

[Joni Lamb]

Thank you. That's where you have to get to that point. You understand that. You know, you try to tell go everything you do in the middle of all this mess, but at the end of the day you gotta say, okay, God, I may not understand everything, but I'm gonna trust you and let him walk you through it and quit telling God what to do, because he's got a much better plan than you do. Okay. At some point you kind of change your mind, Andrew, and you wanna talk to her, but you don't have her phone number. And your kids are like, no, dad, you're not doing this.

[Andrew Har]

Well, thank God for Facebook messages.

[Kimberly Har]

Exactly.

[Andrew Har]

I didn't have a number. That was a plug. I didn't mean to, but I was able to reach her in that fashion.

[Joni Lamb]

And so what did you say?

[Andrew Har]

Two words.

[Joni Lamb]

You sent a message and you said, I'm alive.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Okay.

[Joni Lamb]

How do you respond to that? So how did you respond to it?

[Kimberly Har]

Yippee. I said, yippee. And then I went on to say, I'm so sorry. I want you to know I didn't have anything to do with this. And tried to plead, and he said he was going in for a surgery because I asked if I could go see him. And he said, no, I need to go do this. I'll contact you later. But he ended his message with the words, take care. And I thought, what does that mean? You know? Does that mean I wish you well?

[Joni Lamb]

It's such an engineer thing, isn't it? What is going on here?

[Andrew Har]

I couldn't walk. I couldn't feed myself. I mean, I was. You were in Bad shape for at least two weeks.

[Kimberly Har]

So the therapist in me, I sent him all these pictures of us. And I'm like, you know, trying to, like, stir some spark there. Okay.

[Joni Lamb]

And so you go through the surgery and you have to wait, and then you make contact. What do you say the next time?

[Kimberly Har]

Andrew, that's where a visit would be nice.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, yeah, a visit would be nice.

[Andrew Har]

Perfect.

[Joni Lamb]

He did. But you have to come when the children are here.

[Kimberly Har]

Yeah, he told me. He said, come, but when my kids aren't here. And so we. He's like, my son's going to be at the. Like, the phone store. So come from this time to this time. So I'm 50 years old, sneaking in at the hospital. Where there's love, there's a way that's right. Hey.

[Joni Lamb]

When you're determined, I can relate to all this.

[Andrew Har]

Well, and I was still at John Doe because it was a crime thing.

[Joni Lamb]

You didn't have your name listed. Okay.

[Andrew Har]

So you go to the hospital unlisted.

[Joni Lamb]

And you go in the room. What do you think when you saw him?

[Kimberly Har]

I opened the door and he was all bandaged up, looking pretty rough. And I looked at him and I said, andrew, where does this leave us? And he said, I don't know. He said, I saw the felony counts. He goes, I know what happened to you. He goes, and he goes, and you're gonna be messed up. And then he said, I know what happened to me, and I'm really gonna be messed up. And I just couldn't bear the thought of him going any further. And so I looked at him and I shook my finger in his face and I said, andrew Hart, you will never meet another woman like me.

[Joni Lamb]

Tell him.

[Kimberly Har]

He smiled. He smiled. I don't think I even ever left that hospital room. I was, like, getting up in his hospital bed with him and the doctors and nurses smiling. And four weeks later, we were engaged. And four months later, we were married. And it's been eight years.

[Joni Lamb]

Wow. And so, Andrew, one of the important points, I think, with you is that you almost died. And that was a stark reality for you. And you were like a baby Christian. But this moved you in closer to the Lord. And can God do that? Like, for people who have gone through that kind of trauma?

[Andrew Har]

I think he can do it to anybody if you just lean in, you know? And for me, it was more of a Damascus Road kind of moment where my whole attitude changed. Life was better. I was kinder, I was gentler. I was more loving, more patient.

[Joni Lamb]

Did you see the difference in him.

[Kimberly Har]

After I did see, I mean, he definitely pulled in closer to the Lord. And then as we continued to date, he came to church with me because he loved the Lord. It was just an immature Christian, but he loved me and was the handsome that I had never experienced before.

[Joni Lamb]

I want to know what the son said when she was in the hospital bed with you and he came back from the phone store.

[Host/Announcer]

Wait, wait, he caught you.

[Kimberly Har]

He did come in there, but by this time, we were just smiling and grinning from ear to ear. And, yeah, I think they just saw that their dad was happy.

[Joni Lamb]

And you hadn't met them?

[Kimberly Har]

I had met him one time.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay. So.

[Kimberly Har]

But I had not met the other two.

[Joni Lamb]

The rest of the kids. So when they met you, it's a little awkward. Yeah.

[Kimberly Har]

They all came in and, like, I was sitting there, but I think that they realized that it wasn't me.

[Andrew Har]

We're adults.

[Kimberly Har]

Yeah, yeah. He just told them. I mean, three of them. Two of them are engineers, so they all kind of think alike.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

And what about your kids?

[Kimberly Har]

My kids loved Andrew. My kids, in fact, all of our kids get along. All of our kids.

[Joni Lamb]

The youngest daughter, I think you did the daddy daughter dance.

[Kimberly Har]

He did, you know, with my youngest daughter, came and lived with us for a bit during COVID and she got married afterwards. And when it came time for the father daughter, Dan, she came and got Andrew. And it was just a very beautiful healing moment. Andrew. They look at Andrew not as a stepdad, but as their mom's husband, because they're older, they're adults, but they all genuinely love him.

[Joni Lamb]

That's awesome. That's so awesome. And you know your book, Healing from Life's Deepest Hurts. What would you say was the key to both of you being healed? Because I know he said initially, you're going to be messed up. I'm going to be messed up. I've been shot 10 times. You've been beaten up. Like, this is crazy.

[Kimberly Har]

You know, I think. Well, right away, of course, I tried to take control. And I told his son, okay, this is where he needs to go to therapy. This is the kind of therapy. And Andrew, most of his healing was absolutely much more of the physical because. But it happened so quickly, and there was no relationship that it was different than the healing that I had to walk through. And so we did much of our healing separately. And what help was that while I was processing and as I was healing, he would hold me, you know, it was like he would be there. He didn't. He didn't. He was just Such a. He really was the hands and feet of Jesus.

[Joni Lamb]

That's awesome. So you need to get the book. You go and you tell the whole story.

[Host/Announcer]

I do.

[Joni Lamb]

And you tell also some of the keys for healing.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yep.

[Kimberly Har]

There's therapeutic tools anybody can start with in their own journeys.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay. All right. Well, gosh, guys, thank you for being here. It's so good. Fascinating.

[Kimberly Har]

Thank you for having us.

[Joni Lamb]

They're here. They're alive, they're happy. Eight years, Mary.

[Andrew Har]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, we are out of time. But I want you to remember, if you feel like the pain is too deep or the betrayal too great, you know, you hear their story, you understand that God is your healer and you are not what happened to you? You are who God says you are. You're loved, you're chosen, and you're never alone. And so if you're watching today and you do feel alone and you don't know the Lord, the most important thing you can do is ask Jesus to come into your heart and just say, dear Jesus, forgive me. Come into my heart today. You know, I believe you died on the cross for me, and I want to receive you and be Lord in my life. And I'll tell you what, that is the most important prayer you can pray. We have prayer partners standing by. They'd love to pray with you. I would love to send you the Book of John. It's the Gospel of John. It's a great place to start in the word of God. I'll send it to you absolutely free. And that's because we love you. We're excited about the journey you're about to embark on. And I'm just telling you, if you pray that prayer with an open heart and sincerely, Jesus will meet you right where you are and you hear their story. I mean, if God can bring them through that, he can bring you through anything you've gone through. Well, I want to thank Kimberly and Andrew for joining us. To get a copy of her book, find out more about her ministry, visit kimberlyhar.com and as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content, and let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. But I want to thank you for watching those of you that prayed that prayer. Welcome to the family of God. You are not alone. We love you Again, thank you guys so much for sharing. What a great story, y'.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

All.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, my God. Goodness. All right, well, we'll see you next time. Bye bye for today. I'm here with spinquest, where you can play and win from the comfort of your own home with hundreds of slot games and all of the table games you love with real cash prizes.

[Kimberly Har]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Kimberly Har]

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[Joni Lamb]

It's TJ Maxx.

[Kimberly Har]

Of course. It's shaping up to be a very magical holiday when the road never stops.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Joni Lamb]

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[Host/Announcer]

Will bring you relief knowing you found.

[Joni Lamb]

Just what your child needs. Don't wait. Enroll today@oregon charter.org and see the difference it makes for your child. Oregon Charter Academy what learning should be. Well, she's a Grammy nominated artist who's impacted countless lives through her music. Let's welcome my dear friend, Nicole C. Mullen as she sings My redeemer lives.

[Host/Announcer]

Who taught the sun where to stand in the morning and who told the ocean you can only come this far.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

And who show the moon where to hide till evening Whose words alone can and catch a falling star well, I know my Redeemer. I know my Redeemer lives All of creation testify this life within me cries I know my Redeemer lives oh, yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

The very same God that spends things.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

In or bad he runs to the.

[Host/Announcer]

Weary, the worn and if you are the weak.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

And the same gentle hands that hold me when they hold me when I'm broken They conquer death to free Bring me Victor, bring me now I know my Redeemer he lives See I know my Redeemer he lives out so let all creation testify Let this life within me cry I know my Redeemer Guess what, y' all see he here is to take away my My shame oh, thank you. Jesus here is forever We've got a broken aim the payment for my sin was the precious life he gave but now he's alive and there's an empty grave. And I know you see I know my Redeemer lift I know that I know I know that I know I know that I know that I know that I know that I know that I know that I know that I know that I say my redeemer lives because he lives we can fade tomorrow and the next day and the next day Jesus really lives I spoke with him this morning and he lives up he lives, y' all Jesus really means we got to tell everybody he lives Jesus really lives. Can I get a witness?

[Joni Lamb]

All right. Did y' all love that? Oh, my. Every time hearing that song. So good. Well, you know, in her most challenging seasons, Nicole has she saw her own story reflected in biblical heroes like Ruth and Boaz. Their faith and courage fueled her walk with God, inspiring her to live with fearless obedience. But before we get to that and her book, it's never wrong to do the right thing. Joining me on the table is Latricia. How are you doing?

[Kimberly Har]

I'm doing great.

[Host/Announcer]

I'm doing great. I'm so excited to see my twin.

[Kimberly Har]

I mean.

[Joni Lamb]

That'S right. That's right, y'.

[Kimberly Har]

All.

[Joni Lamb]

Right. Across from each other, too. Beautiful.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Love you.

[Joni Lamb]

Susanna, how are you doing?

[Host/Announcer]

Just great. And you know, my favorite biblical woman is Abigail. So I'm excited to hear about Abigail today.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. Well, you know, Rachel, Nicole calls Abigail a shero in the Bible.

[Kimberly Har]

I love that it's a girl doing big things for the kingdom of God.

[Joni Lamb]

And that's our guest today. She always just brings so much joy, and she's got such a big personality.

[Kimberly Har]

That fills the room.

[Joni Lamb]

I love when she's at daystar. All right, Rebecca. Rebecca, how are you doing today?

[Host/Announcer]

I'm great.

[Joni Lamb]

Happy to be here. Yeah.

[Kimberly Har]

And I also loved hearing the mention of Boaz because that's my son's name.

[Joni Lamb]

We might talk a little bit about Boaz today, for sure. And we call him Beau. Yes. He's such a cutie. How are you doing, Cindy? Oh, man. From the mountains of North Carolina she has come to the table Come to the city she has returned after that song, I'm just.

[Host/Announcer]

Woo.

[Joni Lamb]

I'm all shook up. But, you know, it's just like, I know that I know that. I know that. That I know. And I didn't want her to quit saying it. He lives no matter what we're going through. Well, you know, that's an important part of that song because the crucifixion was one thing, but it would have been nothing had he not risen. Risen from the dead.

[Host/Announcer]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

You know, that changed everything. Welcome, my friend. It's good to have you back.

[Host/Announcer]

Thank you. It's so wonderful to be back and to be among all my lovely sisters.

[Joni Lamb]

We love you all very much. You talk about Abigail. Since Anna wants to go there. It's never wrong to do the right thing. She's one of your sheroes in the Bible. And you think about. I love her story. Because when you think about how she made right decisions, not knowing what her future held. But God knew what her future held.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

And there are people watching that. You're discouraged. You're right in the middle of something. Something's happened. You don't know what you're going to do, where you're going to go, what's going to end. And the Lord is saying, I need you to trust me right now. I need you to have faith and believe that I'm with you. And I'm not going to leave you. I'm not going to forsake you, and I'm going to see you through this. And that's what happened with Ruth, right? She had no idea what was ahead of her.

[Host/Announcer]

So tell us, Ruth and Abigail, both of us.

[Joni Lamb]

Tell us the Shiro story about Ruth.

[Host/Announcer]

Okay.

[Joni Lamb]

Ruth.

[Host/Announcer]

Okay. So Ruth, we.

[Kimberly Har]

I'm sorry.

[Host/Announcer]

Abigail. Abigail.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

It's all good.

[Joni Lamb]

No, we're Abigail.

[Host/Announcer]

We can talk about all the above because we're female.

[Joni Lamb]

We'll get to Boaz. Yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

But Abigail, you know, she was like, the Bible says she was intelligent, she's beautiful and all these things. She had it going on. She's a shero.

[Joni Lamb]

And she was married to somebody that had money.

[Host/Announcer]

Obviously, he was very wealthy, but he was not wealthy in character.

[Joni Lamb]

Right.

[Host/Announcer]

Or in integrity. And she had a decision to make. Either she could side with her husband, who was doing the wrong thing, or she could side with the truth and the right thing to do. And so in the midst of, you know, him, you know, pretty much disrespecting David, who would be a future king, and being stingy with the resources that he had, it was going to bring death to her household. And she could have sat by and just said, well, it's not my fault. I didn't do it.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. And David had actually helped Nabal, I mean, in his fields, with his land and protected it. So all he's asking for is food.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. Give me some dinner, give me some chicken, give me some lamb.

[Joni Lamb]

You know what I'm saying? And so when her husband responded like, no, no.

[Host/Announcer]

And he actually responded to Joni's like, who was this David? Like, exactly. We got a lot of slaves running free these days. Now, David had already killed not only the lion and the bear, he had already killed Goliath. So everybody in the nation knew who he was.

[Kimberly Har]

Right.

[Host/Announcer]

So this was a grave insult. And when they went back and told David, David was like, oh, for real? He told his men, strap on your swords.

[Joni Lamb]

Here we go.

[Host/Announcer]

So they were, you know, he said, take out every male that against the wall. So he was like, we're going to take them out. And so when Abigail heard this, because she wasn't around when her husband gave the rebu, she wasn't there to hear. But when one of the servants came to her and they said, and you.

[Joni Lamb]

Know what your husband just said to David again? You know, something else now.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah. So she's like. And they were like. Even the servant said, you know, he's always. Pretty much always doing stuff like this. Like, we know him as, you know, to be able to utter that type of a phrase to the wife and her not say, how dare you talk about my husband like this. She knew it was true.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

And so.

[Joni Lamb]

But she was.

[Host/Announcer]

She decided, I'm gonna run interference. She made the situation. Right. She took the resources and she presented them today.

[Joni Lamb]

She took a lot of great food.

[Host/Announcer]

She sure did.

[Joni Lamb]

She told the servants Just pile it.

[Host/Announcer]

Up on top of the.

[Joni Lamb]

We're gonna get on the road, and we're gonna meet him first.

[Host/Announcer]

She said, you go ahead of me. And so when they went ahead of her, she probably went and got herself together. She's probably like, you know, I can't go looking just any old kind of way. I'm a female, all right? So, you know, probably just like, when, you know, I know I'm skipping. What Naomi told Ruth. She told her, you know, to wash, put on some perfume, put on your best clothes. Then you go, so Abigail probably washed really quickly. You know what I'm saying? Put on some perfume and just put on something cute. And she's like, because I have to go and appeal for our lives. And so she ran interference, and she prostrated herself before David and was like, I didn't know. Like, I'm so sorry. I know your honor has been bruised. I know he has unjustly responded to the justice you've given him, but I didn't know. And so received this as my token of we're sorry and we want to make amends.

[Joni Lamb]

Here's some figs right here.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, exactly. But her, she acted quickly, and she acted courageously. And at the same time, she could have just set up Nabal and said, hey, you know what? He's been doing stupid stuff anyway. Can you just take him out and you and I will split, you know, the assets that are left. But she didn't. She left it to God to decide to get or acquit him, you know, and she did the right thing in the midst of it with the right heart, and then the Bible, and she went back home. And when she got back home, Nabal was high in spirits. He was partying like a king. And so she was like, he a little on the drunk side. It's not the right time to talk to him. So I was noting. Okay. It's not always the right time. You know, sometimes we are to act quickly, and sometimes we are to wait and act wisely. And so she knew that. And so the next morning, the Bible says when he had sobered up, Abigail told her husband Nabal what had happened and what she had done to run interference and to save their household. And the Bible says that his heart failed him and turned to stone. So he got so mad. Yeah. Either he had a heart attack, you know, and he passed away, or it was so hardened. Either way, the Lord got vengeance. Exactly. It wasn't David's hand. It wasn't Abigail's hand.

[Joni Lamb]

And David would Thank Abigail later.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

He's like, you know, I was really making a hasty decision. It wasn't a wise decision.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. And you were the one who stopped.

[Joni Lamb]

Me, and you kept me from doing that.

[Host/Announcer]

And I love what Abigail said to him. She said, you, soul is bundled with the Lord. Come on.

[Joni Lamb]

Do not unleash.

[Host/Announcer]

She prophesied to that man.

[Joni Lamb]

Yes, she did. Do not unbundle it.

[Host/Announcer]

No.

[Joni Lamb]

Love it. And then after that. Yes.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Sometime later, David said, oh, yeah, I think I'll take her as my wife.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. He remembered her. And so, I mean, so interesting too, because when David sent the servants to propose, he didn't go himself. I guess he was shy. But the servants went and said, hey, David wants to take you as his wife. The Bible says. She felt down again. She was like, okay, I'm ready to serve even my master's servants. This is a wealthy woman. She had her own servants. She had her girls that came with her. So she was very wealthy. But she decided that even in this right here, I'm willing to humble myself again. And so that posture is also a blueprint for us. Even in the midst of us having to take courage, having to do the hard thing, having to respond in ways that sometimes are not popular.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so we have to talk about Ruth now.

[Host/Announcer]

Okay, go ahead.

[Joni Lamb]

I love Ruth.

[Host/Announcer]

I did, too. Oh, yes.

[Joni Lamb]

Ruth had a very difficult thing that she went through. Her husband died.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely. And she's there with her mother in law.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. And she's going all of a sudden to a strange land.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

But she made the decision to go with her mother in law, Naomi. Naomi, who was a little grumpy at.

[Host/Announcer]

The time, you know what I mean?

[Joni Lamb]

To get her to stay.

[Host/Announcer]

Exactly, yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Cause she's like, just to stay. There's no reason. Like, no. And everybody uses that scripture, where you go, I'll go. Where you go, I'll go.

[Kimberly Har]

Where you stay, I stay.

[Host/Announcer]

Your people will be my people. Your God will be my God.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Come on with me.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so tell everybody what happened with Ruth.

[Host/Announcer]

But I love it because Ruth decided that I'm going to get up from where I'm comfortable, where I have already resided. And because I've heard, she must have heard the stories of Bethlehem, the house of bread, whether it's from her husband or whether it was from her mother in law. She had heard of this land.

[Joni Lamb]

She had heard about the God of Israel.

[Host/Announcer]

So she's like, that's where I want to reside. And so she takes the risk of leaving everything she's known, Leaving everything Behind her gods, her people, everything. And she goes with Naomi to a place where she's not familiar. She doesn't know if I'm going to fit in, will I fit in, Will they like me? But when they get there. Now, Naomi has a lot of land. She has what her husband had had before they had left from, you know, Bethlehem to go to Moab. But they didn't have any crops. They had nothing to eat. And so Ruth decided, I'm willing to go out into the field. I don't know where I'm going to land. And I will work. I won't work. I'm not working necessarily even for pay, but I'm working for food. That will be our pay. And so she stumb into this particular field, and she doesn't know the, you know, who is who. She doesn't know family members or anything. She's like, we just need to eat. And as it would have it, the Lord led her without her even knowing that she was being led by the Lord because her heart was right, because she had chosen to do the right thing. And so he allowed her to enter into a field where a man named Boaz, he owned the field. And ironically, Boaz is the son of Rahab, who had once been a prostitute who God used to, you know, in.

[Joni Lamb]

Jericho, save the Jericho. Absolutely.

[Host/Announcer]

And then God redeemed her through a man named Salmon. So now you got Salmon and Rahab residing in Bethlehem.

[Joni Lamb]

That's another whole story. You got to go read it.

[Host/Announcer]

You got to read it.

[Joni Lamb]

Yes. It's a great story.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. And then there they are. And before you know it, Boaz is. He's putting on, like I said earlier, the costume of the ultimate redeemer.

[Joni Lamb]

I love it. Because he goes ahead of her and says, now he tells everybody because she's just picking up the leftovers. And he's like, drop more for her.

[Host/Announcer]

I love it. You don't rebuke her.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah, let her get more. And she's like, taking all this. He's like, where did you get all this? Like, this is what happened. And then of course, the story of how they kept their relationship pure.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. I love it.

[Joni Lamb]

And of course, they ended up getting married.

[Host/Announcer]

They did.

[Joni Lamb]

And he fell in love with her.

[Host/Announcer]

He did. And I say all the time, like, okay, he married her because he was keeping. He was doing what was in the law that he could do, you know, as far as a family member redeeming somebody in your family that's, you know, having a hard time. But to fall in love wasn't against the law. And he Bible says when he made love to her, she conceived. It didn't just say he knew her as it uses in a lot of other instances. Then she was able to conceive. And we know from that conception God gave them a little boy named Obed. And then from Obed we have Jesse. And then from Jesse we have David. And through the line of David, we wind up seeing Mary and Joseph. And then we have Jesus Christ, our ultimate redeemer, Lord and Savior. What a lineage. What a lineage. But he came from all these broken people and all these broken stories to show us that this is how we fit in. He didn't look for all the perfect people because they didn't exist. So he only has messed up people in his family because he came for messed up people.

[Joni Lamb]

And some of them would end up in the hall of fame in the Old Testament. You know, it's amazing to think about that. But talk a little bit about, you know, you grew up in a Christian home, you were saved, filled with the spirit, went to Bible school and thought you met a godly, like Apostle Paul. Yeah. Tell us what happened.

[Host/Announcer]

Okay, well, like you said, I did grow up in a Christian home. Everything was good growing up. Mom and dad loved Jesus. Found myself in an abusive relationship for three years. And he would ask this question that he would answer over and over. He'd ask me often, nicole, what is your purpose in life? And then he'd answer, that's your problem. You have no purpose in life. And I guess I had uttered at least once that I wanted to sing. And he would give me the rebuttal of, you know, well, contemporary Christian artist is not in the Bible. You have no purpose. So it taught me to hold onto what I thought, not to reveal what I felt like God was calling me to do. Even though at the age of 12 it had been prophesied over me, God had had my dad lay hands on me, that the Lord would use me in music, take me around the world.

[Joni Lamb]

But he was telling you that God, that God wasn't going to use you.

[Host/Announcer]

Exactly.

[Joni Lamb]

Why would he be so, like, negative.

[Host/Announcer]

I mean, towards his wife?

[Kimberly Har]

Because your partner is supposed to be the person that's championing you, pushing you to do like, things beyond what you even can think that you could do yourself.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

When was the first, like after you got married, when was the first time that he actually was abusive towards you and did you think, okay, this is just going to be a one time thing, but it would continue?

[Host/Announcer]

Well, he actually hit me before we got married one time, and he had his hand around my neck, too. And I thought, well, he said he was sorry. I'm going to forgive him. And in our faith culture, we were taught to believe back then that to forgive is just to completely forget.

[Joni Lamb]

But your mom actually had.

[Host/Announcer]

Oh, mom was like, no, this is not God.

[Joni Lamb]

She had some red flags.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

And you're like, but no, I believe this is God.

[Host/Announcer]

Because I was grown and I wasn't.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. When you got married, how soon did the abuse start? After you got married? Married?

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Oh.

[Host/Announcer]

Honestly, I'd say probably mentally on the honeymoon. Yeah. Physically, probably within a month or two, I would guess, if my recollection serves me right. But on the honeymoon, it was. He was pretty cruel, honestly, to where you know, here I was. I had kept myself, and I wasn't used to certain things. And I'm like, okay, can you be gentle? Can you. And he was, you know, maybe we ought to just get an annulment. And I felt like I just. You know. And it was that behavior turned into more physical abuse.

[Joni Lamb]

So at what point. Because you stayed for three years. For three years. At what point did. You were like. You knew. And I just want to say, if anybody's watching and you're in abusive marriage, where there's, you know, mental and physical abuse going on, number one, tell someone, get some help and possibly leave and get out of this situation. Don't stay there. That finally happened with you, and you told me the story. I've told this story so many times.

[Host/Announcer]

Him pouring water on my hair. You know, a black girl, you don't pour water on our hair, do you? We don't ask. So I'm like, so he. It was one of those things, honestly. But I think the Lord used that for me to see how ridiculous the situation was.

[Joni Lamb]

So, y', all. He started arguing with you and just took a glass of water, threw it. Threw it on you.

[Host/Announcer]

And he went and filled it back up again, and he threw it again. And I was just sitting there thinking, this is it. This is the last straw. It was that little simple, crazy thing that really woke me up to say, you really have to.

[Joni Lamb]

That was the straw that broke the chest. Yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

And I was like, 24 around the time, but I was like, it's time to go.

[Joni Lamb]

So you didn't say anything. You were smart. You waited for him to.

[Host/Announcer]

It was my Abigail moment to get in the shower.

[Joni Lamb]

And I'll never forget what you told me. Waited to hear what?

[Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

Then.

[Host/Announcer]

Now there's a difference in sound. Because Initially, when he had the water running, he was still yelling at me. And I remember I was getting my stuff together as he was saying. I was like, okay, okay. And I was just trying to be quiet, and I thought he had gotten into the shower. And then before I knew it, I turned around and he appeared in the hallway. And I was like, oh, no. And the water was still running, and I acted as if I wasn't gonna get my purse. I didn't want him to think I was going to leave. And then before I knew it, he got into the shower. And I knew. Noticed then that there was a difference in the sound of the water hitting flesh and hitting the porcelain. Like, it was just. I heard the difference, and I was like, oh, okay, now he's in the shower. And I got my stuff. This is my moment. And with trembling legs, I ran. With trembling legs.

[Joni Lamb]

You just grabbed your purse? Yep. What else did you grab? I knew you grabbed your shoes. I mean, my shoes just.

[Host/Announcer]

And more than likely a jacket, because it would have been cold around that time. And I got into my car, went down the. The two flights of stairs. My knees are shaking. And I went just a couple of miles from our apartment complex, and I pulled in backwards, and I was like, okay, Lord. Like. And every 30 minutes, I turned my car on to let it warm up. Then I turned it off to conserve gas and turned it back on. And I told the Lord. I was like, lord, like in our faith culture. Because I didn't know the heart of God yet, y'.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

All.

[Host/Announcer]

You know what I'm saying? I knew his ways. I mean, I didn't know all his ways. I knew the word, but I didn't know to how. How it really applied to me in that type of a situation. I knew him on the mountaintop, but I didn't know how he would react in my valley. So now I'm having to learn, like, who are you? Not who the saints say that you are? So in my valley, I saw his kindness, his graciousness, his goodness, his protection. And when I thought he would be mad at me, he was like. Without even uttering the words, I heard it in my heart, like, I love you. I got you. And he showed me that.

[Joni Lamb]

And he didn't want you to stay in that situation.

[Host/Announcer]

No, not at all. Not at all.

[Joni Lamb]

Because you kept thinking, well, this is the right thing to do. This is what you know. Okay, so you, like, slept in your car that night?

[Host/Announcer]

I sure did.

[Joni Lamb]

And then you knew that he would be out looking for you, so you were trying to find places to go.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes. And I slept on people's couches and mattresses on the floor and hiding from here to there. And then eventually I had signed a small record deal at the end of that time. And I wind up in Nashville, where I currently reside. And before I knew it, he was trying to find me there. And I was always looking over my shoulder. And I knew it took a little bit of a while for me to finally get to a place where I was at peace. How long did it take you? Honestly, at least a couple of years. I'm not gonna lie. It was just.

[Joni Lamb]

Did he finally stop?

[Host/Announcer]

I knew. Well, he did finally stop, but I knew that once he had found someone else, then he would transfer that passion somewhere else. So I was like, okay, Lord, please, you know? And then eventually, but like, the Lord kept me, I wound up going on tour with Amy Grant around that time, which was the best time, alongside the worst of times, you know? And it's amazing how God can do that, but he never did. He wasn't able to catch up with me, even though I learned in hindsight that he was in close vicinity to where I was several times. And I didn't know it.

[Joni Lamb]

I know he showed up at several of the concerts, but they didn't tell you. They kept him away from you, the.

[Host/Announcer]

One here in Dallas. You wanted him coming.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

Wow.

[Joni Lamb]

But God was special through all of that. And he let you know, Nicole, you haven't done anything wrong because you were, like, at times, like, blaming yourself. Well, if I'd done this or that. And as Christians, we do that a lot of times. That's right. But he was totally responsible for that behavior and what he did.

[Host/Announcer]

And that's why I said even earlier, sometimes I feel like Joe Betta and all of us can. Sometimes we feel like that way, you know what I'm saying? It's like I didn't do anything.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

You know what I'm saying?

[Joni Lamb]

It's like the female version of Job.

[Host/Announcer]

You know what I'm saying? It's like Job in the Bible. It wasn't that he was without. He had faults. We all have faults. But that's not the same as being to blame. He was blameless, and still God allowed him to suffer. God didn't say, because you're blameless, you won't have to go through anything. So God allowed him to.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. He was like, if you consider my servant, Jonah.

[Host/Announcer]

Absolutely.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Absolutely.

[Host/Announcer]

And how many times I wonder. We don't know this because we can't see behind the veil.

[Joni Lamb]

Right.

[Host/Announcer]

How many times has God maybe have said to the enemy, have you considered my servant, Joni? There's none. Like, have you considered my servant like, Rachel, like, we don't know. He baited the enemy and the enemy took him up on it. Because God knew that even in the midst of it, Job would still serve him, Job would still love him. And even though Job would have some crooked sayings and he would be mad at God for a second, he was going to come out on the other side because God was going to make sure. And then God, he restored him. So in the middle of Job's night season is where Job began to declare, I know my redeemer lives, the one who's going to buy back my pain and my shame and my hope. And after I read that one day, I thought, hey, if Job can do that in the midst of his night season, not at the end, but in the middle of it, then how much more can I?

[Joni Lamb]

You know, a lot of theologians believe it was about nine months.

[Host/Announcer]

Wow.

[Joni Lamb]

That Job went through that okay. But the thing about it, after that nine month period, God restored everything.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Double for your children. And God knew that because God can see, be encouraged, past, present, simultaneously. Such a great story. It is. Well, we are out of time. But remember, you can walk in confidence today knowing that God's word never changes. He is faithful to fulfill his good plans for your life. And all he asks is for your surrender surrendered heart to say, okay, God, I'm ready to do it your way. And if you're watching today and you need prayer, call that number on the screen. And if you haven't invited Jesus into your heart, do that today. Just say, jesus, I need you. Come into my heart. Forgive me. And he will meet you right where you are. Again, that prayer line number's on the screen. We would love to pray with you today as well. I do want to thank Nicole for joining us today at the table. Be sure to pick up a copy of her book. It's never wrong to do the right thing. And for more information, you can visit her [e-mail] Again, if you're in a situation that's dark, we're just encouraging you today to go talk to someone, get some help. God doesn't want you to stay in that kind of situation. Okay. He loves you as always, of course. Make sure to follow us on social media to our YouTube channel for many full episodes, exclusive content. Let us know. Bell Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. We couldn't leave the show today without letting Nicole sing one more song. I think she's getting ready for that right now. Please welcome her back to the stage as she sings Freedoms.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

Let freedom ring, we cry freedom. This kind of freedom can never be taken away. Let's do a little bit of a history lesson first. Ain't got no halo.

[Host/Announcer]

No wings to fly away.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

I've got to labor for many minutes many days I'm on a journey I'm on a journey I'm looking for a place I'm looking for a place to rest my bird on far.

[Kimberly Har]

From this ty.

[Nicole C. Mullen]

From the shores of Africa to the doors of America with voices to heaven praying for liberty we craft freedom Free free free We CR freedom oh, we craft freedom yeah, we craft freedom.

[Joni Lamb]

How do I do it.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Host/Announcer]

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