JONI TABLE TALK - DECEMBER 7th, 2025

Summary

Real America's Voice: Joni Table Talk – December 7, 2025

Episode Overview

This double-segment episode of Joni Table Talk features two powerful, faith-centered conversations focused on redemption, identity, and overcoming life's darkest moments. The first half welcomes Michael Moulton, whose journey from addiction and prison to recovery is a testament to the transformative power of faith and forgiveness. In the second half, Pastor Charles Metcalf shares his candid struggle with depression, anxiety, and self-doubt—even as a prominent pastor—and explores how embracing God's choice and love restored his confidence and purpose.

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Segment 1: From Addiction & Prison to Redemption – Michael Moulton’s Story

Timestamps: 03:27–29:09

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction of the Panel and Guest

• The panel (April Simons, Anna Kendall, Rachel Lamb Brown, Cindy Johnston) set the tone for a testimony about freedom from addiction and God's unwavering love, regardless of mistakes.
• Michael Moulton, a recovery coach and podcast host, is welcomed to recount his story of redemption.

Michael’s Early Life and Trauma

• Grew up affluent in Plano, Texas: “I did. I grew up in the country clubs. ...I had a grandfather that was sexually abusing me from kindergarten to fifth grade. I have a mom that was battling substance abuse.”—Michael (06:51)
• He hid the abuse to protect both his brother and his family’s reputation.
• Started drinking at age 10 and describes his substance use as a way to cope with pain:

  “I drank alcohol and I did drugs because I wanted to feel like y'all looked...Then I continued to drink alcohol and do drugs towards the end because I wanted to feel good about the bad decisions I was making.” (10:06)

The Progression of Addiction

• Discusses the nature of addiction beyond substances—work, success, power:

  “Work was my addiction. Power was my addiction. Success was my addiction. Everything that I thought defined me was my addiction. But there was always that dark hole I was always trying to fill.” (12:11)

• Despite outward success as a home builder, Michael was never truly happy.

Arrests and Hitting Rock Bottom

• 27 arrests—often for drugs and alcohol—culminated in repeated jail and ultimately a longer prison sentence.

  “And then 26 mug shots later, a total of 27 mug shots of being on the run, homeless. ...I would hear these stories. The guy who had everything...and then become homeless, living behind the dumpster. ...I was in a stolen Suburban, living behind the dumpster at the bait shop, 300 miles away.” (14:01)

Prison: The Unexpected Place of Rescue

• Interactions with Judge Jennifer Bennett, who was “chasing [him] up and down Interstate 35 in Texas for 27 pictures.” (15:11) Initially tough, she eventually handed down a two-year prison sentence.
• In prison, Michael found himself in a cell with “Ooh Wee,” a 75-year-old convicted murderer, who taught him about “doing easy time”—focusing on the present rather than being trapped by fear of the future or regrets of the past.

Encountering Jesus in Prison

• Starts reading “Detours” by Dr. Tony Evans to his cellmate, relating deeply to the story of Joseph, betrayal, and trusting God through suffering.
• Michael begins to explore the Bible and has a powerful spiritual awakening:

  “I wake up in my top bunk…my chest was so tight…And as I exhaled…I felt all this anger, resentment, rage and hate…just coming out of my body…I mean, just deep breath in... and it was so much love.” (22:12–23:32)
  “It was like liquid love that Jesus poured into your heart.” (23:35 - D & B)

Influence on Others and Spiritual Transformation

• Michael becomes known among inmates for reading, writing letters home, and his unique handwriting. A new habit forms: ending days with “Today I realized…” devotionals.
• Shares the principle:

  “Today I realize…God is all I need because He’s all I have.” (24:05)

Forgiveness as the Key to Freedom

• Michael’s final turning point comes in forgiving his abusers:

  “I had to accept the role that I played in it...the role I played in it was I chose to hold on to the anger and the rage...And when I let that go, the next day, they literally opened up the jail cell and set me free.” (26:21–27:02)

• After his release, Michael walks 300 miles to turn himself back in out of integrity, and Judge Bennett forgives him, encouraging him to “pay it forward.”

Michael’s Message for Those Struggling

• “If you’re struggling with addiction...get completely honest. Simply do this: say, ‘I don't know why I’m doing the things I’m doing, and I need help.’...Reach out to someone in recovery that can relate to you.” (28:34)

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Memorable Quotes

• “God can take our mess and turn it into a ministry.” – Michael (06:37)
• “Addiction is the street name for spiritual stronghold…it’s a person, place, or thought that has become my source.” – Michael (10:58)
• “The closest to God I’ve ever been in my entire life was prison.” – Michael (12:39)
• “One thing you can’t overdose on is Jesus.” – Michael (21:10)
• “Today I chase the feeling of that liquid love.” – Michael (23:54)
• “God is all I need because he’s all I have.” – Michael (24:05)

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Segment 2: Chosen, Not Forgotten – Charles Metcalf on Identity, Mental Health, and Faith

Timestamps: 36:05–63:03

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction of Charles Metcalf

• The panel highlights God’s love and faithfulness through trials.
• Charles Metcalf (pastor, author of “God Chose Me”) joins to speak about untouchable confidence and being chosen by God.

Charles’ Background and Journey into Ministry

• Grew up in a loving, biracial family in Kentucky; always involved in church but didn’t see himself as a pastor.
• Credits his parents for modeling inclusivity and love for people of all backgrounds.

Heart for the Outcast

• Always drawn to those on the fringes of faith or society:

  “My whole life...I don’t have much, but I have what God has given me and I have my story and I have being honest...these young boys found something in just being able to say like, oh yeah, I do struggle with that.” (41:36)

• The importance of loving people first, rather than focusing on their issues, to draw them to God.

Transition Through Seasons of Obedience

• Shared how he and his wife, Abby, started their own church (“110 people showed up to our first apartment service”—45:11) before obediently closing it to serve at Transformation Church with Pastor Mike Todd—without a guaranteed position or salary.
• “I think sometimes we overestimate who we are without God’s will. ...The only reason I’ve made it this far is because God has guided me.” (48:15)

Struggle With Depression, Doubt, and Anxiety

• Despite outward success, Charles faced deep insecurity and depression during the pandemic:

  “You think, man, I'm following Jesus...life is still life.” (53:27)

• A childhood memory of missing free throws planted the lie: “You’re good enough to have the moment, but not to see it all the way through.”

  “The thing about a lie—if you don’t address it with truth, your life will start to look for things to back it up.” (54:33)

• Described suffering panic attacks, including one while preaching, and feeling unable to continue.

The Road to Healing

• Stressed that healing was a process involving counseling, silence, and disconnecting from social media:

  “Anything worth something is a process…In the same way, becoming who you are and growing into who God has made you to be—it took time. And so it was counseling. It was silence.” (55:54)

• Affirmed by Pastor Mike’s support: holding him accountable to healing while still including him in responsibilities.

The Heart of the Message: God’s Choice

• Proclaims from the pulpit (57:58):

  “You may have hired me, but God chose me. ...God put me on this stage...God chose me!”

• Confidence and identity is anchored in God’s choice, not human validation or external success:

  “All those things (success, money, relationships) are on a timer…but realizing God chose you is the thing that can [sustain].” (58:56)

• Emphasizes that God knows us fully and still loves us.

  “It’s a crazy idea that the more God knows me, He continues to love me even more.” (59:29)

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Memorable Quotes

• “You did not choose me. Remember, I chose you.”—Charles, quoting John 15:16 (39:00)
• “You may have hired me, but God chose me…God put me on this stage.”—Charles (57:58)
• “The only reason I’ve made it this far is because God has guided me.”—Charles (48:15)
• “The thing about a lie—if you don’t address it with truth, your life will start to look for things to back it up.”—Charles (54:33)
• “Anything worth something is a process…so becoming who you are and growing into who God has made you to be—it took time.”—Charles (55:54)
• “You are first off completely loved, right where you are, how you are, and you do not have to carry the weight of your life by yourself.”—Charles (60:41, prayer segment)

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Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Michael’s “liquid love” transformation: 23:32–23:54
• Panel reaction to the forgiveness/release story: 27:02–27:32
• Charles on God choosing us: 57:58–58:33
• Open prayer for listeners on inviting Jesus in: Charles, 60:41–61:34

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Hope and Redemption: No one is too far gone for God’s love—addiction, prison, insecurity, and failure are not the end of the story.
• Power of Forgiveness: Letting go of unforgiveness is a critical step toward freedom—spiritually and, in Michael’s story, even physically.
• It’s a Process: Whether recovering from addiction or battling mental health, healing by faith is a journey that requires honesty, support, and patience.
• You Are Chosen: True, sustaining confidence comes from knowing that God chooses and loves you—regardless of your past or your performance.

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Resources & Next Steps

• Michael Moulton: mtotherock.com
• Charles Metcalf: charlesmetcalf.com
• Joni Table Talk: Full episodes and resources on Real America’s Voice, YouTube, and major podcast platforms.
• If you need prayer or are seeking help, call the number shared during the show: 1-800-329-0029

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In the Words of the Guests

“God can take our mess and turn it into a ministry.” – Michael Moulton (06:37)

“This ain't a handout. God put me on this stage…God chose me!” – Charles Metcalf (57:58)

“You are completely loved, right where you are, how you are, and you do not have to carry the weight of your life by yourself.” – Charles Metcalf (60:41)

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This episode is an invitation to honesty, hope, and healing—with the assurance that no matter how broken, forgotten, or unqualified you feel, you are still seen, loved, and called by God.

Transcript

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[D]

So are you trapped in secret addiction? Well, today's guest lived that life for decades until Jesus led him into freedom in the last place he ever expected, a prison cell. But before we get to that, I've got your attention. Joining me around the table is April Simons. A great testimony today. You got my attention. From felony to forgiveness. We've never had that on here, right? Felony scene. I love it. I can't wait to hear the story. Anna Kendall, how are you? Oh, I'm excited about this story. People are going to be set free. We're all flowing in the pink today. Rachel, Michelle lan Brown. How are you?

[G]

I'm good. And man, I'm so glad that Jesus doesn't give up on us and that no matter how many times you fall down, all you have to do is get back up. And he is waiting, ready to receive you with open arms. And that's the story of our guest.

[D]

I have to tell you a funny story.

[G]

What?

[D]

So I talked to my mother this morning.

[G]

I already know what it's going to be like.

[D]

I talk to her every morning and she watched the show this morning and of course we, we pre record and then, you know, shows air for all over the place. And you must have had your hair straight this morning. She just said, would you please tell Rachel I like a little curl in her hair? So, mom.

Are you happy, Mom. That she watches out?

[H]

There it is.

[D]

There it is right there. Moms are amazing, aren't they, Dorothy?

[H]

Yes, they are.

[D]

They just tell you like it is. Especially when they're in their 80s. They will say whatever they need to say.

[G]

I look forward to that day. I can look the filter off.

[H]

But.

[D]

Right now, you gotta leave it on, girl. Okay. Cindy Johnston, how are you? Hey, Joni, Doing great. Excited about this testimony. You know, I love the fact that when God sent Jesus, Jesus didn't come to condemn us. We tended to condemn each other. But he didn't. And he came to love us. And no matter where we've done or what we've done or where we've been, he is there to help us.

[G]

Yep.

[D]

What we've done. And I'm one of those that help.

Well, he's a celebrated recovery coach and a podcast host. Please welcome Michael Moulton. Come on in, Michael.

Come on in.

[C]

Hi, ladies.

[G]

Hey, there.

[B]

How y' all doing?

[D]

Good.

[G]

Good.

[B]

Well, this ought to be interesting.

[D]

This ought to be interest. Are you ready?

[B]

The question is, I don't know.

[D]

I'm not sure. I think you would do fine. After one too many arrests, Michael Molan found himself locked in a cell with a convicted killer. Well, today he's here to share. Had God met him at his lowest point, turning rock bottom into holy ground. Do you realize how many people I've interviewed over the last 30 years with these kind of testimonies? And it's is always amazing to me how God can take a life that is broken. I mean, that the world had given up on. And he can reach down and just redeem it, save it, wash it clean, turn it around. And that's what he wants to do for you today. Okay. So stay right there. Welcome.

[B]

Thank you.

[D]

So good to have you.

[B]

Yeah. God can take our mess and turn it into a ministry, right?

[D]

Well, he takes our mess and turns it into a message.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[D]

Yeah. Okay, so tell us, growing up, you grew up in an affluent home? I did the Golden Spoon.

[B]

I did.

[D]

Everything's great. What happened?

[B]

I did. I grew up in the country clubs. And what happened? Yeah, it's like, what happened to you? Yeah, I grew up. Yeah. My dad was a hard worker and everything was provided outside the home. Everything appeared to be normal. You know, the country club and playing golf. Had a brand new car when I was 16 in Plano. And then behind closed doors, it was very dark in a confusing part of my life. I had a grandfather that was sexually abusing me from kindergarten to fifth grade. I have a mom that was battling substance abuse. I believe she was. The thing about addiction is it's the only disease that has to be self diagnosed. That's what's so frustrating about it. But I recognize the behaviors.

[D]

Well, did you tell anyone what was going on with your grandfather? This was your mother's father.

[B]

That's correct. And so I didn't.

[D]

Did he tell you, you better not say anything or anything like that?

[B]

Never did. Thanks for asking that. No, he never did. There was never a threat. It was just known that I wasn't going to say anything.

[D]

Was he. Did he have a problem with addiction?

[B]

Oh, yes. He was a raging, raging alcoholic. He actually died of this disease of throat cancer, you know, from alcoholism.

[D]

So as a little boy, what were you thinking when this was happening to you?

[B]

Two things. I was protecting my brother. Number one, because I didn't want him to go after my brother. Number two was.

I was actually protecting my family because I didn't want anybody to think bad about my family outside the house. So I was willing to take it a hit, you know, and to take on that pain and that suffering in order for nobody else to have the pain and suffering.

[D]

Did you then start to make some bad choices at that point?

[B]

I had my first drink when I was 10 years old.

[D]

And where was God in all this, by the way? Like, did you ever go. Did you go to church or.

[B]

No, There were times where, you know, I'd go to church. I'll never forget. I went to a church camp.

A weekend camp in the fifth grade, and I got in trouble because I was teaching people, had to gamble, you know, and teaching people how to pitch pennies and won all the pennies, and I got in trouble after that. I always was thinking, being curious if there was a God out there. I wasn't an atheist, you know, I was a true agnostic. But I was so addicted to the world and the culture. What the world and the culture had to offer is what I was addicted to.

[D]

So even though you. You had some kind of secret addictions going on, even through high school, and there were other doors of opportunity that began to open. Right. As far as, like, golf.

[B]

I was a good golfer. You know, for a long time, alcohol and drugs worked for me. You know, it eased that pain and suffering, and it gave me that sense of ease and comfort until it stopped working.

[D]

Because you don't realize that that's what you're trying to deal with is what happened with the grandfather. And so to deal with the pain, the alcohol and drugs helps with that. Right.

[B]

I can summarize it real quick. I drank alcohol and I did drugs because I wanted to feel like y' all looked. I wanted to feel like everybody around me looked. Then I continued to drink alcohol and do drugs towards the end because I wanted to feel good about the bad decisions I was making.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's how this. This disease is progressive. Yeah, but everyone's an addict. Yeah, we think of, you know, drugs and alcohol, but addiction is seeking visible things to try to fix our invisible problems.

[D]

Oh, that's good.

[B]

Yeah, that's good.

[D]

So seeking visible things to fix invisible problems. Problems. And you said earlier that an addict is someone. Well, how did you say it? That.

[B]

What is addiction? You know, the definition of addiction is it's a I can get real deep on this. This is what's really cool about this. Addiction is the street name for spiritual stronghold. Okay? That is the truth. Addiction is a person, place thing. And here's a scary one, ladies. Or a thought that has become my source.

[D]

That has become source.

[B]

It's become my source. That's exactly right.

[D]

It's kind of sitting on the throne of your heart instead of go.

[B]

And it's a mental obsession.

[D]

Okay, so you then became a caddy.

[B]

For like a. I was a caddy for one of the most well known golfers at the time. I was a bookie on the tour. You know, it was rock and roll.

[H]

Yeah.

[B]

And I grew up in the country clubs. I grew up in real estate. I grew up, you know, around home building. So I knew that's where I was going to go. I'm very creative, very artistic, articulate. I've always loved architecture. I've always loved that. And then when I got off the road in 1995, I went into the home building business. And.

[D]

And you were successful?

[B]

I was very successful. I became one of the most well known high end luxury home builders in the park cities, in Dallas and across the country.

[D]

Well, at some point, though, the addiction would cross over and affect your work, right?

[B]

Well, work was my addiction. Power was my addiction. Success was my addiction. All these visible things, everything that I thought that defined me was my addiction. But there was that dark hole I've always heard people say. There was that dark hole that I was always trying to fill inside.

[G]

Did you ever feel happ.

[B]

Never. Never.

[G]

All the things you thought would bring you happiness?

[B]

Never. There was just something, something missing. I would have moments of euphoria.

[H]

Right.

[B]

But that true peace and comfort and happiness is something. And I still struggle with it today, you know, but there are times where happiness, you know, the closest to God I've ever been in my entire life was prison.

[D]

So you ended up getting arrested, get your first mug shot, and what was it over?

[B]

So I got pulled over. I was going at a high rate of speed. I was intoxicated and had a lot of cocaine in my car, in my possession. See, an addict will say, I had a lot of cocaine. Somebody who's not an addict, go, I just didn't have any, and it wasn't mine. But we like to glamorize it. But that was my first charge. And when I got taken down to Lew Steric justice center in Dallas, I went down there and I arrived at a place I said I would never go. And I'm like, oh, I'm 40 something.

[D]

Years old and you're like, this is not ever going to happen again.

[B]

Never, ever. And I meant it.

[D]

And what happened after that?

[B]

I got bonded out, so I was nervous, I was anxious. I had to knock the edge off, you know.

[G]

Who got you out?

[B]

My dad did at the time. And we didn't even know how to do this. I mean, this is so foreign to us. And so I was going through a horrible divorce. And at the time, and then went back to my apartment, I said, I just need to knock the edge off. Gotta remove the anxiety. I could die from alcohol detox. You know, all these games that I play in my head, Even though you.

[D]

Had just told yourself, I will never do this again.

[B]

I'm in it. Yeah. And I'm in it. I took one sip of alcohol and I was drunk. A high again that night. And then 26 mug shots later, a total of 27 mug shots of being on the run, homeless. I would hear these stories. The guy who had everything, you know, and then become homeless, living behind the dumpster. I was in a stolen suburban, living behind the dumpster at the bait shop, 300 miles away.

[D]

So when you say 27 mugshots, that mean you went to prison 27 times.

[B]

27 arrest.

[D]

27 arrests. He's going to prison. Just a minute.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay, so 27 mugshots. And tell us about the judge there in Dallas.

[B]

So, Judge Jennifer Bennett, who's my professional photographer.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And, you know, is she still a judge? Oh, yeah, she still sits behind the bench.

[D]

Hello, judge.

[B]

Good job on that. We are very close friends. And, you know, we talk weekly. We have our little dog and pony show, you know, going. In fact, the last time she was up for reelection, no one even ran against her, you know, because of how our story is made such public.

[D]

Okay, so you go before her, but you're not friends at this point.

[B]

No, we're not friends. You know, and she was hard on me. She was very hard on me. And then she finally, after my 27th arrest, says, you go mind somebody and you go mind me. And she had been chasing me all up and down Interstate 35 in Texas for 27 pictures. For 27 pictures.

[D]

Because you wouldn't show up for.

[B]

I wouldn't show up for court probation violations. I was still drinking. I was still doing drugs. I disrespected her. Just out of control, totally disrespected.

[D]

Okay, so what did she say? What did she sentence you to?

[B]

Well, she sentenced me to two years of prison, but I had Been incarcerated many times in between that. So out of six years, I was incarcerated for four years.

[H]

Yeah.

[B]

And so.

[D]

But before she did the two year sentence, you were actually in a different tank, waiting.

[B]

That's correct. Yeah, I was waiting for her. Meanwhile, her dad was real sick, so she. I didn't see her for a long time. So May 29, when I got arrested on my 27th mugshot, I had met an inmate. I got misdiagnosed. They diagnosed you when they send you into prison, they put the child molesters in one tank and they put the alternative lifestyle in one tank. The misdemeanors, you get the gist. And then they put the murderers in one tank and the assault people and they put me in that tank.

[D]

In the murderer tank.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

And so, and I'm like, how'd this happen? So I'm in a. I'm in a two because mine were all, all just, you know, drug charges, alcohol charges, which are bad. It's a crime. And so I'm in this two man tank and out of 24 hours, they let you out, you know, maybe two and a half hours a day. Yeah. And my celly, which is my cellmate, my roommate, whoever you want to call it, is a 75 year old man from Oak Cliff that he'd been back on a bench warrant and they called him Ooh wee. And so he was my celly and I was pacing around the day room all the time. They called me Rabbit, you know, because you don't use your free world name. So they called me Rabbit because you couldn't stay still. I couldn't stay still. I was so in my head. I was detoxing. I had no drugs, alcohol. I mean, I was just on the gas. I'd just be pacing in the day room, just doing laps. And ui said, hey, look out, Rabbit, come here. You're making a lot of people nervous in here and you're making me nervous. And he goes, if you don't learn how to do easy time, they're going to chew you off the bone in prison. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He says, you're doing hard time. And what he was saying was, I was in my head and I was out in that world. I was out in that world. And these guys are teaching this educated, very smart businessman life, you know? And what he was telling me was. And I learned that when I'm in my head, it taught me about why I drank and did drugs. Because when I go into the future alone in my head, I Get fearful, I get anxious. Look at y' all nodding your heads. See, y' all aren't alcoholics, but y' all can relate to this. So we don't like that feeling. What do we do? We shift the view. So we go to the past. So when I go to the past, I get depressed, resentful, angry. So I'm going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Meanwhile, I'm right here, right now. In order to ease the pain and suffering, what do I do if I don't have Christ? I start seeking visible things to try to slow this down.

[D]

So what happened with ui?

[B]

So UI simply asked me to read to him. And there was a book that was in prison that somebody gave it to me, written by Dr. Tony Evans, Detours. And the name of it was Detours, and it was the Story of Joseph.

[D]

But ui, you know, somebody gave you the book and you just kind of threw it aside?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. I just threw it on my bunk. And UWI goes, ooh, what is that? I said, it's a book. They just gave it to me. He says, well, what's it say? I'm like, wait, it says Detours. He says, well, who wrote it? I'm like, Dr. Tony Evans. You know what I mean? And he's like, I go, here, you can have it. I'm not gonna read it. And he goes, I can't read or write. Will you please read it to him? I've never heard anybody say that, ever. This guy's 75 years old. So I start reading it to him, and it's the story of Joseph. And I could really relate to the story on the betrayal and the abandonment. And people will go, man, you have the story of Job and Joseph Michael. There's a lot of similarities, but the difference was they had faith in God, I didn't. And that was the difference.

[D]

But there were seeds that were planted as you were reading to. Did it affect him as well as you?

[B]

Oh, yeah, because we were doing easy time.

[D]

So what happened as you began to read to him? Were there others that were interested?

[B]

So there were others that were interested. Then I started taking notes, and that's when they started seeing my unique handwriting. After the show. I'll write your name if you want me to in handwriting. They started seeing my handwriting. And so.

[D]

And you're left handed.

[B]

I'm left handed. And so as I'm writing this and then I'm reading, I asked another inmate if I could borrow his Bible because there was these things in the book. Detours that said, like, John 6:14. I'm like, what does this mean? You know? And so, like.

Yeah, like, who's John? Who's Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul? And ooh, he was asking those questions. He says, oh, I love me some Paul. He's straight up gangster. I'm like, who's Paul?

[H]

You know?

[B]

So I'm like, in this Bible, and here I am. And so God has just taken this. I'm in a whole different culture, and God is using uneducated, illiterate men to transform my life to be sitting here with y' all having this conversation. And so as the story progressive, it gets gooder. It gets gooder as it progresses. I'm wanting more, okay? Because now one thing you can't overdose on is Jesus.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

You can overdose on Jesus. And so as I'm sitting here, I'm wanting more and more, and I'm reading this, I'm like, I'm gonna find out who this John cat is. And John here, and I'm borrowing this. So every night, I would give this Bible back to this inmate who let me borrow it, who I eventually bought the Bible from him for 11 soups, which is $11.

[H]

Yeah.

[B]

And so as I'm reading, because the.

[D]

Guys were paying you to write.

[B]

They were paying me to write letters to their family members. But the rule was, my boundary was there had to be nice letters. You know, it couldn't be, like, running game. And so as I'm doing that. So I'll never forget. So remember, I was apprehended on May 29, 2017. On July 7, 2017.

I wake up in my top bunk, and this is me having these conversations with this Jesus cat. You know? I'm, like, talking to him, all right, Jesus, if you're real, man, talk to me and, like, you know, make something move. Make a cup move, you know, or do something.

[D]

I love that part, by the way, that someone who doesn't really know how to pray the prayers, but they just say, okay, Jesus, if you're there.

[B]

I. I'm just having a conversation with you.

[D]

I need something.

[B]

Just like, I'm talking to y'.

[D]

All.

[B]

And I said, you know, I don't. And so just, all right, come into my life, you know, and all these reckless. I meant it. These reckless prayers, because something was happening, and I woke up, and it wasn't medical, but my chest was so tight. It was so tight. And I took this deep breath in like this, and I exhaled. And as I exhaled, I wasn't. Because I work so Much. I was never a movie watcher, but the movie Green Mile, I did see that with Tom Hanks and, and I. I remember all the flies and all the poison coming out. But all I felt when I exhaled was all this anger, resentment, rage and hate. I had so much of that in me just coming out of my body. I take this deep breath in. I mean, just deep breath in. Every time I tell the story, I get emotional. Deep breath. It's like ice water in my body. And it was so much love. I mean, I'm like going, man, I love. I love that guard. I love that person. I love that person. I love that person. The diabetics were walking across at 4 in the morning to go get their shots. The inmates who are diabetic. I'm like, I love him. I love him. I love him, I love him.

[D]

It was like I told you earlier, it's like liquid love.

[B]

Liquid love. I love that I'm a borrow that.

[D]

Liquid love that Jesus poured into your heart.

[B]

It was, and it still is. And I chased that. So that first drinking drug, I've been. My whole life, I've been chasing that feeling. Today I chase the feeling of that liquid love. I like that.

[D]

Okay, so then what happened after that? Because there's going to be another big thing that happens where God's working in and through you. And more of the inmates are being touched as a result.

[B]

They are. And as I'm reading this stuff, I'm creating this content. And so I would speak to the inmates at night, at dinner, not preach, speak. And I'd say, hey, check this out, guys. You know, today I realize. And that's my devotional book that I'm in the process of writing right now. Today I realize. Today I realize, you know, God is all I need because he's all I have. And then I'll do a devotional underneath that. But it's seeing life through God's perspective today, not the world or the culture. See, God doesn't need me. I need him, right? And so as the story goes on, you know, and I'm in this new tank 300 miles away that I had been transferred to, you know, this guy comes up to me and he says, you know, what are you doing? And I said, well, you can read it or write. And he's like. I said, okay, I see you. So I'm starting all over again in a whole new tank, 300 miles.

[D]

He couldn't read either.

[B]

He couldn't read either.

[D]

So you start reading with him, you start a whole new tank.

[B]

There were some guys in there in that tank that could. That could read, but so people just started hanging out with me. It was about my handwriting. For some reason. That was the hook. You know, people like the handwriting.

[D]

We got to show everybody what the handwriting looks like. So we're going to get him to write something.

[B]

I'll do that.

[D]

Okay. So then there was another really pivotal moment for you that was life changing.

[B]

So on October 12, I'm studying the book of Matthew, and I'm really. I'd go to the back, and I'd look up, like, forgiveness, you know, because I wanted to know about forgiveness, that I forgave. And, you know, people go, michael, you know, need to forgive the people who had hurt you. Pray for them for two weeks and it'll go away. Okay, I can do that. God, please. Give them pancreatic cancer so they die this miserable death, you know, I mean, this is. I can do that. Obviously, that's not the way to forgive.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

But because that didn't work. It didn't end me up in the prison.

[H]

Yeah.

[G]

Yeah.

[B]

But when I truly read Matthew 6, 14:15, and this is my translation, it says, when I forgive the ones who have hurt me. Okay. I truly do. Next verse. God says, I'll bless your game. I will perform the supernatural. And when I did that. And how do you forgive? How did I forgive?

[D]

And who did you have to forgive?

[B]

My. The people who had harmed me. So we'll use my grandfather just to add color to the story. Okay. So me forgiving my grandfather, I had to accept the role that I played in it. Wait a minute.

[H]

Right?

[B]

You played a role in your grandfather sexually abusing you? I sure did. And the role I played in it was I chose to hold on to the forgiveness, the anger and the rage.

[D]

The unforgiveness.

[B]

The unforgiveness. And when I did that, you held onto it. I held onto it. And when I let that go, the next day, they literally opened up the jail cell and set me free.

[H]

Wow.

[D]

They called over the speaker and said. What did they say?

[B]

They said, michael Moulton, bunk and junk. That means you get your bunk, you get your junk, and they release me from prison.

[D]

And you're, like, telling them, there must be a mistake.

[B]

They already know it's a mistake.

[D]

I would have just said, okay, let's go.

[B]

They already know it's a mistake. I mean, I even got my paperwork there, and they don't know what's going on. And they literally call the state of Texas and the state of Texas says, release him. He's now a liability. He's not the property of the state of Texas anymore. Get him out.

[D]

So you get out, and then. We're running out of time. The first thing the Lord says to you is what?

[C]

Walk.

[B]

So I walked 300 miles back to Judge Bennett's court to turn myself in.

[D]

Takes a week to walk back.

[B]

And she says, I've heard what you've been doing, because inmates have come to her and said, this guy had been reading to him and changed his life. And she goes, I don't want to get in the way. And so she forgave me and she set me free. And she goes, she goes, and she.

[D]

Goes, the day after you forgave?

[B]

The day after I forgave.

[G]

So you went to her and you said, I know that this is a mistake.

[B]

No, she told me to come back and see her when I got released after my two year sentence. So I showed up to go see her, like she said.

[D]

And so when you walked up and she saw you, she had already had reports of good things you have done.

[B]

Yeah. And she had reports that I was out. And I showed up and turned myself in and she set me free. And here's the thing, she says, I want you to go pay it forward. And here I am eight years later on Joni's Table.

[D]

Talk to that person that's struggling with addiction right now. Just take about 30 seconds.

[B]

What would you say if you're struggling with addiction? Here's what I challenge you to do is, number one is to get completely honest. All right? You know, you have a problem, but simply do this. Say this. I don't know those three words. I don't know why I'm doing the things I'm doing, and I need help. Those right there is the most honest thing that you can say. And that way you can get help, Reach out to someone in recovery that can relate to you. And I challenge men, work with men and women, work with women and ask those people, say, I want what you got. Please help me.

[D]

That's right. And you know, we've got a number on the screen. Prayer partners that are standing by that would love to pray with you, encourage you. 1-800-329-0029. Well, we're out of time, but an amazing testimony. I want you to remember that no matter who you are or what you've been through or the brokenness you've experienced, doesn't matter. Jesus said, come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I'll give you peace. That's what some of you are looking for today. And Jesus is ready to meet you right where you are. And all it takes is this surrendered and open heart, just like Michael said. Lord, I don't know what I'm doing, but I need you. And just invite him in, just like he did. I think all he said was like, okay, Jesus, come on in. I need you. And I mean, all that bad stuff came out and the love of God poured in because that stuff can't remain if the love of God is inside of you, if Jesus is on the inside. So just ask him. Jesus, forgive me. Come into my heart today. Forgive me. And he will meet you right where you are. Well, if you're watching today and you need prayer again, that prayer line number's on the screen. Prayer partners are standing by. If you did invite Jesus into your heart, if you ask him to forgive you today, if you prayed the most important prayer you'll ever pray in your whole life, we would love to send you the Book of John. And that's just a great place to start in the Bible. And this is a new day. It's a new journey. Some of you are sitting there and you're a mess, and God's going to give you a message, okay? Amen. It's not too late. It's never so do not give up. Reach out to the Lord today and allow him to touch you. Well, I do want to thank Michael for sharing his incredible testimony. For more, you can visit him [e-mail] and as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life because we love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast on all the main your platforms. Thank you so much for watching. I'm going to go be on the M2 podcast show. Michael. Well, thank you, ladies. Did y' all enjoy that? Oh, so good. I know you did as well. Hey, you be encouraged today. And it's. It's never too late to begin again. Jesus loves you. We'll see you next time. Bye Bye for today.

[C]

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[A]

Making the holidays magical for everyone on your list it's no small feat, but with TJ Maxx, your magic multiplies with quality finds. Arriving daily through Christmas Eve, you'll save on luxe cashmere, the latest tech toys and more. So you can check off every name on your list and treat yourself to a holiday look that'll turn heads. Now you know where to go to make all that holiday magic. It's TJ Maxx. Of course, it's shaping up to be a very magical holiday.

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[D]

Well, you know, many people fear that they would be rejected and if anyone saw what they were really like. But at his lowest moment, today's guest discovered something even more incredible. The one who knew him the best also loved him the most. Who are we talking about? Well, Guy upstairs, he loves you today too. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is April Simons, who has experienced the love of God. All of us here have in some of the darkest moments. Oh, and the great thing is you basically already said it. He loves us despite of who we are and what we've gone through because he created us as his masterpiece. And he loves us. He did. And we can trust him. We can totally trust him. And Akinda, how long have you been serving the Lord now? Well, I'm pretty old, so you don't look at. I'll just tell you that you're the best looking wise woman I've ever seen. Thank you. Thank you. Long time. We've been married 60 years, so I've probably been serving the Lord about 50. Wow, that's amazing.

[H]

Yes.

[D]

Rachel Lamb Brown. He is faithful in the time of trouble.

[G]

Oh, he is. And I'm so grateful that even in our lowest moments that he's there reminding us who we are. And when you're on the Lord's side, there's always victory no matter what you go through.

[D]

Dorothy, this is going to be a great, a great program for people who may be watching today who are just struggling with anxiety or depression or just thinking, I don't know how I'm going to go on. There was a point in your life you felt that way. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And when I think back, I can't imagine going through anything without God's presence, you know, because it's hard. It's hard, and it's hard believing in yourself, believing that there's a greater power that can get you out of it. So today is going to be a really good show because there's so many people, like you said, who struggle with all of those things.

[H]

Yeah.

[D]

And we want you to be encouraged today. Okay. No accident that you're watching, you're going to make it through. And this testimony is going to encourage you. Well, he's the pastor and the author of God Chose Untouchable Confidence for the Unstoppable Christian. Please welcome Charles Metcalfe.

Here he comes.

[G]

Hello, hello.

[E]

Hello.

[D]

We thought you might just dancing.

Next time.

[C]

Next time. So good to see you.

[D]

The senior pastor of your Transformation Church probably would have danced in, right?

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

I'll leave him to dancing. To him.

[D]

Well, you know, at the height of the pandemic, Pastor Charles Metcalf found himself drowning in depression until the power of God broke through. And Charles joins us to share how everything changed when God revealed that he wasn't just accepted, but he was chosen. I don't think a lot of people understand that, you know, when we choose to bring God into our life, that he already chose us and wanted to have a relationship with us long before we were even conceived in our mother's womb.

[C]

Absolutely. Favorite scripture, John 15:16. It says, you did not choose me. Remember, I chose you. And I think that remember portion is so beautiful because sometimes we forget that, like, oh, yeah, I've always been this way and it was always good and everything was fine. But there's a moment we could all go around the table and remember a time where, oh, it was not that way. It was not always good. I didn't always have this peace. I didn't always have this clarity. And I think that's been the beauty of my life is just remembering, like, oh, yeah, you did this. You chose me. You brought me here. So you got it.

[H]

Yeah.

[D]

And, you know, just looking at you, watching you, hearing you talk, you would never think that you went through what you shared in the book. So I appreciate your transparency in doing that because a lot of things you experience that you talk about in the book, you had never experienced before. It's almost like you didn't know how to navigate around these things. So we'll get to that. But let's go back. Mom and dad, Bowling Green, Kentucky.

[C]

Born to Michael and Michelle Metcalf. My mom and dad are amazing. Dad's black, my mom's white, so that means I don't speak Spanish. People walk up to me and be like, start speaking Spanish. Like, that's not that. So get that out the way.

[D]

But no, you could be a comategama.

[C]

I know. Yeah, exactly. I could do it easy. But I took Spanish from 6th through 12th grade and got nothing to show for it, so my mom would appreciate that. But yes, Michael Michelle Metcalf, born and raised in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and absolutely loved it. I got a little brother who's eight years younger than me. He looks like my twin. Funny story. He'll come to church sometimes and people walk up and just start pouring out their hearts. And at this point, he's experienced enough, he'll just be like, God bless you. Like, that's. So he'll take pictures with me.

[D]

He'll be just like, let me pray with you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

Exactly, exactly.

[C]

But no, grew up in church. Love church in Bulgari, Kentucky.

[D]

And your dad pastored.

[C]

Yes, my dad pastored today.

[D]

You helped with everything early on.

[C]

Yeah, all the things I remember.

[D]

But you weren't going to be a pastor.

[C]

No way.

[D]

Absolutely not.

[C]

No way. I just didn't. I loved the church, but I just wanted to do other stuff. I grew up playing sports and then I got really into fashion and design and I worked at a newspaper doing photography. And so there was just other creative things that I wanted to do. But God had other plans. That's why I'm sitting here with you.

[H]

That's right.

[D]

That's why you're talking to the world right now. Right here.

[E]

Exactly.

[D]

So talk a little bit about that journey into actually becoming a youth pastor, because I know it started with you working with 6th grade boys and serving in the church and God just multiplied that and you had 90 kids coming in.

[B]

I know.

[C]

It's funny because hearing it, it sounds crazy now, but living it, it was just my life. It was just like, oh, yeah, we just had the Now. We did. Probably. It's the testimony of how many kids came. They didn't tell you how much trouble we got in, but that was, you know, kind of.

[D]

Or how you got him to come with the Pisa and all that.

[C]

Exactly. Bribed him. But no, it was just a beautiful. I think my whole life I've Always just felt like, man, I don't have much, but I have what God has given me, and I have my story, and I have being honest. And I think in a world that promotes a lot of fake, being honest is very. A high commodity. And so I think these kids and these young boys found something in just being able to say, like, oh, yeah, I do struggle with that. And so, yeah, they just started coming, and that was kind of my entry into ministry.

[D]

You know, one thing that you do that reminds me of my daughter Rachel, sitting right here when she was little. Like, every homeless person we passed, we had to stop. Or anybody outside the circle of the church or organized religion, you know, she's throwing a lifeline out, too, and bringing him home. We adopted a few. We did. But you were kind of like that in that you were drawn to people who had been hurt kind of outside the church, and you wanted them to experience the love of God. Like, you had a passion for that early on.

[C]

Absolutely. It's always been that way in my life. And I think my parents set that beautiful example. We were always pulling in people. Our church was a hodgepodge of people who were raised in church their whole life and the people walking in off the street. And so that always was a value to me. And me and my wife, we had people who were really close to us but far from God. And I think it's such a valuable thing to have in your life because sometimes you forget that, oh, this is like, the whole thing is go and make disciples. And so, yeah, it's always been a value in our life.

[D]

And you won some and there were others that didn't share. Absolutely. But you still threw the lifeline out there.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Well, our job is to love. We can't control their decision or when they decide, but it's just to. And let God do what he does.

[D]

And a lot of people say, yeah, when you talk about the whole love thing, I mean, you definitely have to present truth and love together from the word of God. But, like, when you love people and when God. When people experience the love of God, it draws them closer to him, and they want to live right and do the right thing, don't they?

[H]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, the scripture says it's his loving kindness that draws us to repentance. And so I think my job. And I think, too, there's a narrative that, like, well, if you love people too much, they might start to. And my honest experience.

[D]

Or if God forgives him too much.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. My honest experience is there's not droves of people who are overflowing with confidence in who they are. Majority of the narrative is, I'm not good enough. Nobody likes me, nobody loves me.

[D]

And that's a lie from the enemy.

[C]

Absolutely. And so our love for them, our encouragement to them is that light that they need, and then it opens them up to hear what God's truth is.

[G]

I think it's not so much oftentimes what we say, it's how we live. And I think when people see God in you, they see something different. They want that, and they become curious.

[C]

Exactly, Exactly.

[D]

So true. Okay, so you went from the 6th grade boys youth pastor to pastor in Tulsa.

[C]

Yes, in Tulsa.

[D]

Okay, so tell. And you actually told. Told your wife?

[H]

Oh, no.

[D]

Was she. When she was there?

[E]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, Abby was there. How did you meet Abby?

[C]

Yes, Abby Rose. I met her easter Sunday of 2014. She walked in, most beautiful girl in the world. And I was like, that's the person I'm gonna marry.

[D]

And so you didn't tell her that?

[C]

No, no, no, no. That would be super creepy. I waited, of course.

[D]

Did you already know her or.

[C]

I had known her through some mutual friends, but kind of, sort of, maybe. Yeah, kind of, sort of, maybe. So. But yeah, we met. We dated for a year and a half, then asked her to be my wife. And almost 10 years later, four kids later, we're still here.

[D]

Yep. Four kids later, he's surviving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's thriving. So, okay, so you went from then to pastoring in Tulsa. Tell us about that first service. I love it.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[C]

Yes. So beautiful backstory of that is my wife at the time, she's a wedding photographer. She is wildly successful, traveling to Europe, Paris, Germany, shooting weddings. And I come back.

[D]

Which fits right in with your creativity.

[C]

Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I was her little partner in crime. So I was. I was the second guy there. I was the intern. But we're doing this, and I come to her and I say, hey, babe, we are. I think we're starting a church. Like, we're going to do this. And she was like, absolutely, like. Because she had a lot of people in her life that way too. And so, yeah, we were super young, but in our downtown, we found this little venue downtown. And I'll never forget our first service that we were talking about is it was actually in our apartment complex. There was like a little rec room. I told the landlord, hey, can we borrow this? We're going to make some food for like, 20, 30 people and come over. He's like, yeah, absolutely. Well, the first night happens, and 110 people show up, and he storms in and he's like, there's lines down the block. People are calling me, you can never do this again. Oh, my goodness. And I'm like, I didn't think this many people could. I'm like, you know what I'm saying?

[D]

And you preached that first message.

[B]

I did, yeah.

[C]

Preached that first message about the Garden of Eden and that our home is ultimately with God. And until you return to the garden, you'll search your whole life for where you originally designed to be.

[D]

That is amazing. So did Abby give up her career?

[C]

She kept going because I wasn't making no money. Come on, church.

So she did that all the way through. So we were shooting weddings and playing the church at the same time.

[D]

Okay. And then at some point, the Lord began to speak to you about.

Disbanding the church, sending the people that were there to other churches, actually giving money to other churches and going to work at a. I guess a bigger, even bigger church there in Tulsa. I mean, how did that go down with Abby when you told her you felt the Lord?

[G]

I got a question.

[C]

Well, it was a while moment. This is one of the most beautiful and bonding moments in our marriage. I called my wife, and she was out on a trip. She used to do a wedding workshop, and she had done a whole weekend of that teaching people about photography. And so I said, hey, babe, when you get home, we need to talk. And she's like, well, what do you need to talk about? And I'm like, well, just wait. You know. You know how you get those arguments, like, it wasn't supposed to be. Just wait.

[D]

So anyway, she's like, don't tell me that you said yes.

[E]

I know.

[C]

I didn't know, but. But she comes in and she sits down on the bed, and I genuinely just begin to ball cry because I'm telling her, I know we said we'd start this church, we'd do it for a year, and it's working, and we both sacrificed, but I really feel like we're supposed to stop doing that and go serve at Transformation Church. Transformation Church at this time is 200, 300 people. Pastor Mike's been the pastor for a year. It's not Transformation Church. It's just another church across the city. And so she sits down, and right when I finish talking, she says, right when I sat down, the Holy Spirit told me, whatever he says, trust him.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And I'll start crying right now.

[D]

Chills, chills, chills.

[C]

But that was Just one of the most beautiful moments. And so she said, whatever, I trust you. And if this is what you feel like we're supposed to do, I'm with you.

[G]

Why would you leave a church that you worked so hard to build, that was growing so fast, or somebody else's dream?

[C]

Yeah, I think I'm just very aware of me. And I think sometimes we overestimate who we are without God's will. So some of us think, like, oh, I'm talented enough that if this is what God's telling me to do, but I don't really feel like I want to do it, I can go, still do this and be successful. And I knew the only success I've had in my life, the only reason I've made it this far, is because God has guided me. And I felt like Moses when he says obedience. Yeah. He was like, if you don't go, I'm not going. And so this was the case of, like, God, if you're moving, I can't stay over here.

[D]

Now, if you'd stayed there, you know, within your own strength, when God is saying, hey, I want you to do this, you would have then been walking in disobedience, in your own strength and power, and who knows what would have happened? But you were like, okay, God, I don't understand all this. So many times the Lord asks you to do something and you're just like, are you sure about this?

[G]

And I think that's so hard for, like, the younger generation to, like, go serve somebody else's vision or, like, sit under someone else or submit to somebody else.

[D]

Not only dad, but. But you went to Transformation Church and volunteered. So he wasn't getting paid.

[C]

It wasn't a job. Yeah, this wasn't like six months a draft to another team. This was just like, hey, I'd show up at 9 o', clock, be like, what do you want me to do? And he'd be like, okay, go to this meeting and see if you can add value, serve in the groups area. You know? So it was. But I think.

[D]

I think he didn't really know who you were at that point.

[C]

No, we had been friends for a couple months. So this was not like a. Oh, clearly it's obvious. Somebody, you know, somebody said they were like, you know, now it's all obvious. Like, it's eight years later, everything's beautiful, we're best of friends. And it's just kind of a duh moment. And I said, well, it didn't feel like duh when we did it. It felt like, what are we doing? Where are we? But that's the.

[D]

What did you bring value to? Like, when did he start to see, okay, who is this guy Charles Metcalf? Is he the one who came up with that idea? Like, what?

[C]

No. I mean, Pastor Mike is one of the most trusting, encouraging, supportive people. Early. So funny story. I've been there for literally two weeks, and he comes to me. He's like, how are you preaching on Sunday? And I was like, okay, cool. Like, I've been like, well, some of my friends now. She was staff, Bri. But she was at. She was like. The whole staff was like, what in the world? We don't even know this guy. He could be crazy. I was crazy. But that was a separate issue. But. So he was trusting. Very early on, what did you preach? And I preached on the fruits of the spirit, faithfulness, like a free throw. And I preached about the reason people make free throws is because they spend hours and hours doing it. And many of us don't step out in faith and then expect to perform under pressure.

[D]

How did it go?

[C]

It went good, as far as I'm concerned. I'm saying I'm still here. So.

[D]

Okay, so two weeks in. Yeah, I preached, but this is going to be how long a journey?

[C]

Six months. So I'm still. I preach.

[D]

What are you thinking is six months?

[C]

I mean, I'm just. I'm doing what I know.

[G]

What's Abby saying?

[C]

Abby's.

[D]

I mean, the truth is, Abby's out taking pictures. Yeah.

[C]

She's traveling the world. I mean, my wife is a boss, so she's.

[H]

Okay.

[C]

No, the truth is. I mean, it was 100% difficult. I think that would be. I would be remembering to say, like, oh, yeah, it was easy, and everything made sense. There were questions, there were doubts.

[G]

You were driving Uber.

[H]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Well, I called him and said, hey, I'm about to. I was working at a little clothing store my friend owned, and he gave me some, like, sad hours just because he knew I was broke and was like, hey, man, go open up the store for me. But I called him and said, hey, man, I'm gonna have to change my work schedule. I'm about to start Ubering. I got signed up, I got approved, whatever. And he said, wait, don't do that. And that was on a Friday. And he called me on Monday. And this is after six months. And he said.

[B]

And I became.

[C]

He brought me in. He's like, hey, I want to hire you as a creative pastor over worship and creative team and preaching and all that stuff.

[G]

And so was there ever a moment in that six month period where you doubted if you had made the right decision the whole time?

[C]

I mean, completely, Yes. I think it is such a just misconception that you're not supposed to doubt. Like, if you have doubt, that means something about who you are.

[D]

It's like the battle in the mind, isn't it? It's so real, isn't it?

[C]

Well, it's just being a human. It's like I doubt what I wore today, so why would I not doubt? You know what I'm saying? I think we make it like, oh, well, if God does this, you're never supposed to doubt. And that's not what we see in scripture. It's not what we see. The example of Jesus. Jesus is perfect, sits in the garden and says, God, if there's any other way. And so I think I was just.

[D]

There, by the way.

[C]

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[D]

The Garden of Gethsemane. And one of the producers with me, Delisha, she cried and her first time being there.

[C]

Oh my gosh.

[D]

And it was just to think about, like it was there that he said, you know, if this cup can pass, like, he was just. He knew what was coming. Jesus knew what was coming. And there's so much so that the Bible says that he sweat great drops of blood. And I always say there, that's a special place for me because I believe at the Garden of Gethsemane, when he sweat those drops of blood, that he would understand every emotional torment that we would ever go through 100%. I think he felt it at that moment. So, okay, so everything's going great. And what I love about your book is that, number one, you're vulnerable. And so you need to be sure to read it. God chose me, but you share that moment that you had anxiety and fear and depression because you had never really dealt with that before. And so tell us about what led up to that and what happened and what were you thinking when all this was going on? Because you're in your moment.

[C]

Yes, absolutely. Well, I think it's another. It's a similar misconception. But you think, man, I'm following Jesus, I'm doing what he want me to do. I shut down my church, you know, all those things. And life is still life. It doesn't matter who you are, what you're going through. You got kids, got a family, responsibility, job, bills, all the things. And I just started to feel that pressure and that weight.

[D]

And this is in 2020, when things.

[C]

Were so crazy when everybody's having the place to go when we didn't know what we didn't know.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I think it is. I just started to feel that pressure. And the inside story that I had believed was. And I'll tell a quick story. When I was in sixth grade, played basketball, captain of the team, two seconds.

[B]

Left on the clock.

[C]

I get fouled, I miss both free throws, and we lose the game. At sixth grade, that planted a story in me that you're good enough to be the captain, you're good enough for the coach to draw up the play for you, but you're not good enough to see it all the way through. And that story stuck with me my whole life. I felt like I'm going to have the moment, I'll have the opportunity, I'll be good enough to be there, But I don't think I have what it takes to see it all the way through. And that's what I felt in that moment.

[D]

That was a lie that you did.

[C]

That was. The lie was just like. And the thing is about a lie, if you don't address it with truth, your life will start to look for things to back it up.

[D]

That's right.

[C]

And so anytime I made a mistake, anytime I failed, anytime my idea didn't work, I thought, see, there you go.

[H]

What do you expect?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I said, like, that's you. And there's the culmination of that moment. There's only a moment I'm in my office, I'm up under my desk, and.

[D]

You'Ve never been under there before, have you?

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I'm riding, and I'm like, I can't do this. I can't carry this weight. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

[D]

And you're having a panic attack.

[C]

Yes, absolutely.

[D]

You never had a panic attack before?

[E]

Never before.

[C]

Like, I thought, like, oh, what's going on? This is weird. And kind of tried to shake it off, but, yeah, I'm. Depression, anxiety. I had a panic attack in the middle of preaching, and it's all just. I mean, overwhelming. If anyone's ever experienced a pan attack, you're like, am I. Am I dying? What is that? Like, I don't know what is happening?

[D]

A heart attack?

[C]

Yeah, it was severe. I was shaking.

[H]

I could.

[C]

Couldn't think. And so all these things just brought me to a moment where I was like, I cannot do this, and something's got to give. And it was in that moment that the seeds of this book began to flourish. Of God saying, hey, like, I got you. Like, the truth is there are moments in life you can't do by yourself.

[D]

You can do it by yourself. So I asked you this earlier, but how did you come out of that darkness? Because I know one of the ways and I think this is important. I mean, there are times in our life we need a counselor, a Christian counselor. Counseling is good. You said it was not an overnight out.

[B]

No way.

[D]

Like, you didn't go down the altar.

[C]

And done everything, did my little prayer and I was good. No, it was time. It was a process. And I think anything that is worth something is a process, whether it's the birth of a child, a good home cooked meal. It takes time. In the same way is true about becoming who you are and growing into who God has made you to be. It took time. And so it was counseling. It was silence. That was the thing I adopted of just because of anxiety has you spending so much. Waking up in the morning, I would make my little cup of coffee and then just sit there and just kind of like try to breathe.

[D]

And you got off social media.

[E]

I did.

[C]

I got completely off social media.

[D]

That I'm just telling y', all, you cannot be getting up in that social media every day. It'll mess with your mind.

[C]

Absolutely. Well, and it's just not. It's not real. Like, I think we need to acknowledge that, like, this is a whole world we accept as, like, we'll say stuff like, oh, you ain't really with somebody until you post on social media. When it's like, this is a little square on this little phone. It's not my actual life.

[G]

So I'm curious, what was Pastor Mike's response and like, helping you walk through this journey?

[C]

He was 100% with me the whole time. Grace and kindness and the balance of still holding space for who I was. I think a response in church often is we see someone's crack and we remove all the responsibility. And there's an appropriate level of that to get healthy and healing. But sometimes we don't allow people to grow through just life experiences. And so he balanced making sure, hey, are you going to your counseling? Hey, are you doing your thing? Are you being honest? But also, hey, I'm not gonna remove everything you have because that would reinforce. Yeah, you don't have what it has.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Because you can. You are healed through the process of continuing to show up to do what God called you to do. Here's a kind of 30 second clip of kind of the moment where I guess Pastor Michael Todd said, okay, there's the book right there, where you really understood who your identity in Christ is and that he's the one who has to carry the weight of this stuff. You cannot, we are not filled to carry it. This little 30 second clip of Charles going after it right here.

[C]

God chose me. God chose me. You may have hired me, but God chose me. You may have me, but God chose me. You may have gave me some money, but God chose me. You may have lent me a little platform, but God, God chose me. Baby, don't get it twisted. This ain't a handout. God put me on this stage. Pastor Michael didn't put me up here. Michael Metcalf didn't put me up here. I love you, Granny, but you didn't put me up here. God chose me.

[D]

All right? And the table said it big.

[H]

Amen.

[F]

Amen.

[D]

Amen. Anna, you know, I think it makes such a difference when we realize that God has a purpose for us being here. And you were learning what your purpose was that was being developed as you went through this growth period. But doesn't it make a difference when you realize God has a reason for each of us being here?

[C]

Absolutely. Well, it's such a valuable thing in life and, you know, in our lives. We get confidence from a lot of places. From your childhood, from what you do, the money you make, who you know. But the truth is all of those are on a timer. And at some point, you realize they cannot sustain you. But realizing God chose you is the thing that can.

[D]

You know, six of the things that you talk about, six anchors of untouchable confidence. You talk about this in the book. Just pick one of them and talk about it. It's accepted belief, confession, chosen, known, loved. Those are all anchors in our faith, right?

[C]

Absolutely.

[H]

Yeah.

[C]

I think the one that always resonates to me is being known. And, you know, I think you love someone to the knowledge that you know them. And I think for me, I've experienced that with my wife. The more I get to know her, the more I love her. And so to me, it's a crazy idea that the more God knows me, he continues to love me even more. And sometimes it feels like if you get to know me too much, maybe you wouldn't love me because I've got some cracks. But it's actually those things that draw him to us. And I think some people feel like I'm not good enough. And God, if he knew. And first thing is, God already knows, so we can get that out of the way. But the Second thing is he knows all about and he fills in the.

[D]

Cracks and we're stronger once he puts the glue in there, he may look a little marred, you know, have a few bumps and bruises here and there, but we're better on the other side of it. The other thing, the seven attitudes of unstoppable faith. Ready, ridiculous, reverent, resilient. Remember, relationships rebuild. Of course, he goes through a lot of those in the book and you have to get the book to read all of them. But would you just take a moment, Charles, and lead someone who's watching that maybe has never invited Jesus into their heart and life. We can repeat after. You would just look in the camera and lead them as you feel led.

[C]

Absolutely. I want to take a moment and let you know that you are first off completely loved. Right where you are, how you are and you do not have to carry the weight of your life by yourself. The gospel message is there is a God who loves you. He's not an idea, he's not a feeling, he's not a theory. He is a person and he wants a relationship with you. And all you have to do is say yes, I'm going to lead you in this prayer and I believe that as you pray. The Bible says you believe in your heart. You confess with your mouth. You shall be saved in this moment. You will be saved all around the world. Would you pray with me right now? Just repeat after me, say dear God, Dear God, I admit I've made mistakes. I need you, Jesus. I give you my life. I believe you live. I believe you die. I believe he died and you rose.

[D]

For me and he rose for me.

[C]

I give you everything.

[D]

I give you everything.

[C]

In Jesus name I pray.

[D]

In Jesus name I pray.

[C]

Amen.

[D]

Amen. It's just that simple. It's just that simple. It's a free gift. He died on the cross for you and for me. He forgives our sins. He gives us a peace that passes all understanding. He said he'll never leave us. He'll never forsake us. He is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. And that's what he's saying to you today. So I'm so excited that you prayed that prayer. We are out of time, but I want you to remember that you don't have to strive to earn God's love. You already have it. Your past, your mistakes don't disqualify you from his purpose. You have to get that so many of you haven't walked in your God given purpose because you've made mistakes and the enemy has told you that you're not good enough. I'm telling you it's a lie. Do not believe it. In fact, I think sometimes the things we go through just reveal just how powerful his grace truly is and how God will take those things that we've gone through and use those things to help us or to help other people, like what we've gone through, what we've learned through the process. So many times God takes those mistakes and he redeems them. And what the enemy meant for evil, God uses for good. And we're able to help people. So your whole perspective needs to change on that. Okay, if you're watching today, if you prayed that prayer with Charles, we have wonderful prayer partners that are standing by that would love to pray with you. We also have the Gospel of John that we want to send you. It's a great place to start in the Bible and that's absolutely free. It's our gift to you. But I do want to thank Charles for joining us today. Be sure you pick up a copy of his book. Look how good we matched the bag drop there.

[C]

Oh, boy, y' all nailed it.

[D]

And it's called God chose me and he chose you. It's no accident that you're watching today. You've never watched this show before ever. And God has spoken to you and opened up your heart because he loves you. Because he chose you. Of course. For more information, you can visit Charles [e-mail] and as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. You can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on the major platforms. But thank you so much for watching. Really excited about this next chapter of your life. Some of you are going to see some supernatural doors open. Some of you are going to get into counseling and get and God's going to heal your heart from some things that happened a long, long time ago. And that's how much the Lord. Well, thank you, ladies. Thank you, Charles. Next time you got to bring that beautiful wife with you. Well, I want to hear her story and she can take pictures of everybody.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Love that.

[D]

We'll see you next time. God bless you. Continue to call if you need prayer today.

[G]

Bye bye.

[D]

For today.

[E]

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[A]

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[C]

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