JONI TABLE TALK - FEBRUARY 15th, 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: Real America’s Voice – Joni Table Talk, February 15, 2026

Episode Theme:
This episode of Joni Table Talk centers on holistic well-being through biblical principles, focusing on the importance of rest and how spiritual, emotional, and physical health are interconnected. Pastor Kerrick Butler discusses his new book "Rhythm of Rest," while Dr. Avery Jackson explores the science and faith behind healing, highlighting his book "The God Prescription."

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• [02:00 – 05:37] – Introduction, Panel Discussion on Rest
• [05:37 – 18:59] – Interview with Pastor Kerrick Butler, “Rhythm of Rest”
• [18:59 – 28:38] – Practical Applications for Family & Personal Rest
• [32:01 – 57:19] – Dr. Avery & Karen Marie Jackson on Healing, Emotions & the Spirit

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1. The Value and Practice of Rest (with Pastor Kerrick Butler)

Rest as a Biblical and Practical Principle

• Rest is a Scriptural Mandate:

  • “If God Himself rested, we’re really in trouble if we think we don’t need to.”—Dorothy Newton [05:07]
  • “Anytime we take holy things and make them common... the rest is called holy in the scripture, but we treat it as common in our hustle culture.”—Kerrick Butler [14:38]

• Rest Is Not One-Size-Fits-All:

  • Some need active rest (walks, hikes, biking), others prefer quiet (reading, beach, being still).
  • "My version is active, but that's resting—resting my mind, my emotions, even though I'm moving, I'm at rest."—Kerrick Butler [07:34]

Key Insights

• Learning & Scheduling Rest:

  • “We schedule everything but we don’t schedule rest because we don’t value it.”—Kerrick Butler [14:21]
  • “Block off that time. And learn how do you actually rest—find your own rhythm.”—Kerrick Butler [14:50]
  • Rest is at minimum a weekly necessity; for some, more frequent.

• Resting as a Family:

  • Traditions like “Taco Tuesday” create consistency and joy.

    “Even my staff knows, don't bother him on Tuesday evenings. My whole church knows it's Taco Tuesday, don’t mess with Pastor.”—Kerrick Butler [16:28]

• Rest Prevents 'Forced Rest':

  • If we don’t rest voluntarily, life or our bodies may force us to stop.

    “I call it a forced rest. You do not want a forced rest.”—Kerrick Butler [18:00]

Quotes & Insights on Mindset

• “If you do less, I can do more in your life.”—Rachel Lamb Weiss, quoting her spiritual journey [03:49]
• “Our emotions are all over the place, and sometimes we miss out on rest because of that.”—Kerrick Butler [11:56]

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2. The Intersection of Faith, Medicine & Emotional Health (with Dr. Avery Jackson)

Healing as Whole Person Care

• The Mind-Body-Spirit Connection:

  • “Our health is compromised of mind, body, and spirit. So many times we don’t really think about the mind and how it affects our overall health.”—Rachel Lamb Weiss [33:29]
  • “85% of diseases are either caused directly or indirectly by emotional unwellness.”—Dr. Avery Jackson [48:28]

• Testimonies from Medicine:

  • Dr. Jackson shares neurosurgical cases where prayer and the Holy Spirit guided him in difficult surgeries [39:32–42:22].
  • Patients without hope or faith often recovered less well than those who retained hope (“Hope deferred makes the heart sick...so many times they are the ones that can't recover” – Joni Lamb [51:05]).

Spiritual Practices & Science

• The Power of Prayer Language (Speaking in Tongues):

  • Scientific studies show brain differences in individuals who pray in tongues, with increased receptivity and wellbeing.

    “When you pray in your heavenly language...you’re listening and responding and submitting to the Holy Spirit.”—Dr. Avery Jackson [44:34] “Those praying in tongues regularly were more emotionally and mentally healthy.”—Karen Marie Jackson [46:02]

• Scripture as Foundation for Healing:

  • Isaiah 26:3 and the power of confession—Shifting focus to God brings peace and physical calm [53:18].

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3. Practical Takeaways for Listeners

Finding Your Rhythm of Rest

• Track your sleep, assess energy levels, and be honest about your natural patterns.
• “I had to start tracking how much I slept. Learned about something called sleep debt...your body remembers how much sleep it should have had.”—Kerrick Butler [12:33]
• Intentionally set boundaries on technology—advice like putting the phone in another room or cabinet during family time [26:16, 25:32].

Family Traditions for Connection and Renewal

• Example: Taco Tuesday—everyone, including church staff, knows this is protected family time (major quote [16:28]).
• Learning each family member’s preferred way to rest and incorporating those rhythms.

Emotional & Spiritual Practices

• Confession and speaking life in the morning instead of negativity (“Change your confession, you change your sleep habit”—Cindy Johnston [21:51]).
• Use worship music, time in scripture, and spiritual gifts (prayer language) for restoration.

Healing is Holistic

• Address emotional baggage, unforgiveness, trauma—these deeply impact physical health (direct link to immune system via the natural killer cell [49:48]).
• “You can have two patients treated the same, and one healed, the other die—it all boils down to hope.”—Joni Lamb [51:05]

Enduring Faith & God’s Guidance

• God directs in both rest and healing—listen and obey, even in the small things (“He said, I need you to stay refreshed.… Did I stay refreshed? No. I had to repent.” – Kerrick Butler [10:11])
• Miracles and healing journeys are as diverse as people; lean on faith, patience, and listening to God’s voice [56:11].

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “If you do less, I can do more in your life.”
  —Rachel Lamb Weiss [03:49]

• “Anytime we take holy things and make them common... rest is called holy in the scripture, but we treat it as common in our hustle culture. We grind, we move, but rest is holy.”
  —Kerrick Butler [14:38]

• “You do not want a forced rest. We saw that in the scripture when the Israelites were removed from the land... they did not let the land rest. So it said the land had rest seventy years. Now, what does our body make from the dirt? If the land has to rest, how much more do our bodies?”
  —Kerrick Butler [18:05]

• “I learned...the Lord convicted my heart. He said, ‘If you do less, I can do more in your life.’”
  —Rachel Lamb Weiss [21:12]

• “Our emotions are all over the place, and sometimes we miss out on rest because of that.”
  —Kerrick Butler [11:56]

• “The most refreshing, re-energizing thing I do is watch Korean TV. I can’t text, can’t answer the phone, I can only read the subtitles. That’s honestly how I rest.”
  —Joni Lamb [22:43]

• “85% of diseases in the body are either caused directly or indirectly by emotional unwellness.”
  —Dr. Avery Jackson [48:28]

• “Natural killer cells heal less well in those with depression or anxiety... risk of infection and cancer is higher.”
  —Dr. Avery Jackson [50:19]

• “Healing is spiritual, emotional, and physical... The issue is our knowledge and awareness of who we are and our authority in Christ.”
  —Dr. Avery Jackson [54:01]

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Memorable Moments

• The Taco Tuesday Family Tradition: A humorous and heartfelt segment showing how sacred family rituals can reinforce connection and rhythm [16:28].
• Discussion on Technology Boundaries: Practical advice on putting away devices to prioritize presence [25:32, 26:16].
• Scientific Validation of Spiritual Experience: Dr. Jackson references the brain imaging studies of prayer and emotional health, blending faith and neurology [44:05–46:04].
• Moving Prayer for Rest: Kerrick Butler prays for listeners to enter “the best rest of your life,” specifically addressing sleep struggles and family renewal [27:37].
• Personal Stories of Healing in Medicine: Dr. Jackson’s surgical testimonies bringing faith to the operating room [39:32–42:22].

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Conclusion

This episode weaves together practical wisdom, biblical teaching, and scientific insight to argue that genuine rest and healing require attention to body, soul, and spirit. The hosts and guests are candid about their failures and growth areas, encouraging listeners to “find your own rhythm,” emphasize family connection, manage emotions, and ground all efforts in faith and God’s guidance.

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Recommended Resources:

• Rhythm of Rest by Kerrick Butler
• The God Prescription by Dr. Avery Jackson

For more, visit:

• kerrickbutler.com
• thegodprescription.com

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Transcript

[Joni Lamb]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Kerrick Butler]

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[Dr. Avery Jackson]

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[Kerrick Butler]

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[Joni Lamb]

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[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place.

[Joni Lamb]

For healing, learn more and sign the [e-mail]. So are you feeling run down and exhausted? Maybe you feel stuck in an endless cycle? Overworked? Drained? Well, according to today's guest, you can break the cycle through one key biblical principle and he's here to tell us about that. So you want to stay tuned. But first Joining me around the table, my dear friend, Cindy Johnston. How are you doing?

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Hey.

[Joni Lamb]

I'm doing well. Sometimes our body's trying to tell us to rest, right? That's right. Yes. And I think God rested after he made all of creation. And if he wanted to rest, I think that is a great indicator. We need to rest. That's right. Annie Kendall, are you for that?

[Cindy Johnston]

I am for that. I believe that rest is invigorating.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. You told me you met some people somewhere that watch you on table talk. Yes, yes.

[Cindy Johnston]

And this lady said.

[Joni Lamb]

Where was this at?

[Cindy Johnston]

It was at a luncheon where I was speaking, and this lady said, I love table talk and I love all of the wisdom.

[Joni Lamb]

So, yeah, I think she said, I love you being on there because you bring wisdom. Yes, yes. She's not gonna say that about herself.

[Cindy Johnston]

But she didn't say elderly.

[Joni Lamb]

But that's right. Well, Rachel and Brown, welcome to the table. We like having a little wisdom at the table, don't we?

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

We do.

[Joni Lamb]

We do.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

And I'm excited about our guest today. This is a topic that I had to learn early on as a graduate of falling.

[Joni Lamb]

You are really bad at not doing this, by the way. I have to tell everybody.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

It's a part of my testimony with the Lord. He told me, rachel, I came to give you life and life more abundantly. And nowhere in that does it say anything about being tired, exhausted, worn out, over overworked. And he said, if you do less, I can do more in your life. And I said, sign me for that.

[Joni Lamb]

If you do less, I can do more. I like that. I feel like you really understand rest. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I work hard. You do have to. When it's time to rest. I believe in it. It's full of life. You have an important job, keeps you busy.

[Dorothy Newton]

Absolutely.

[Joni Lamb]

But when it's done, you take time to rest.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

I do.

[Joni Lamb]

I do. And, you know, some of it is pleasure. Like, I love watching Korean T. Oh, my goodness. That's my absolute favorite. That is so funny. I just found this out about Dorothy Newton. All right, Cindy Murdoch. We're finding out things we never knew.

[Cindy Johnston]

We are.

[Dorothy Newton]

You know, I'm in that season of rest where I'm as busy as I need to be. And it's a new season of what God has for David and I. And I was thinking as we were all talking. Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

The mountains of North Carolina, folks. Yes. She tells me she wears her sweatpants.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Oh, how nice.

[Joni Lamb]

Know her leggings and her sweatshirt and.

[Dorothy Newton]

Look out into the Smoky Mountains and see the awesomeness of God and all the animals and.

[Joni Lamb]

But you still come back for tablet?

[Dorothy Newton]

I come back.

[Joni Lamb]

Thank you, Lord.

[Dorothy Newton]

I still get to stay connected, but when we think we're smarter than God and God himself rested, we're really in trouble.

[Joni Lamb]

Truth.

[Dorothy Newton]

When we. I love what you said, Rachel. You know, if we do less, God can do more. However you said that. And I'm in that beautiful season of my life, and I love it.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah, I love it.

[Kerrick Butler]

But.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah, you're resting, but you're still working. Productive.

[Dorothy Newton]

We're still being productive. And I see God doing it in a whole different area of my life.

[Joni Lamb]

And I love it. All right. Well, he is the senior pastor of Faith Christian center in Mableton, Georgia, and he's here to talk about his new book, Rhythm of Rest. Please welcome Kerrick Butler. Come on in, Kerrick. All right.

[Kerrick Butler]

Hello, everyone.

[Dorothy Newton]

Hi.

[Kerrick Butler]

It's good to be here.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. Good to have you. Yes. You ready to take on the ladies at the table?

[Kerrick Butler]

Let's go.

[Cindy Johnston]

Okay.

[Joni Lamb]

I love that. I love that he can do it. So how do we escape this narrator of burnout? And is it possible to embrace a lifestyle of supernatural renewal? Well, it starts by embracing a key biblical principle that will end your striving and transform your life. Carrick. You pastor there in Georgia, a great church. Married? Yes. Five kids?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

Four girls and a boy?

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

I just want to know, how can you have five kids and write this? Because I'm still trying to figure it out.

[Joni Lamb]

That's a good question.

[Kerrick Butler]

Writing the book, I had to be dedicated to not violate the principles of the book to write the book. Somebody's like, I'll just stay. I was like, no, no, no. You're teaching on rest. You need to live this thing as you write it. And so I've learned to take advantage of these moments, these opportunities to rest. I remember one time I was taking my Otis to volleyball practice, and it was just the drive back and forth didn't make sense. And so it was years ago I wrote another book while I was waiting for a volleyball practice. I find these moments, and I take advantage of these opportunities. A lot of times people say we don't have time to rest because I got this. I got this. Well, you got this five minutes. What are you doing with it? You got these 30 minutes. You're doom scrolling. Or are you actually gonna do something that you enjoy?

[Joni Lamb]

You gotta put down that phone.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

That's one of the big things. Well, you know, I love what you said, that resting isn't just going to take A nap or sitting in a chair, enjoying the beauty of the mountains, you know, or sitting on the swing or whatever resting can be. Walking down the beach. Oh, absolutely. Or going on a hike and just looking at God's creation. Or just going for a walk around the block. Right.

[Kerrick Butler]

That's my version of rest. I'm a very energetic person. I like coffee. Some people are like, why do they ever introduce you to caffeine in the first place? And so my version is I'm going to the beach, I'm walking. I might walk a few miles, I might run a few miles, I might walk back afterwards. I might go for a hike, go do this. My version is active, but that's resting. It's resting my mind, resting my mind, my emotions. I'm enjoying what God has created. And I'm physically, even though I'm moving, I'm at rest.

[Joni Lamb]

Did you take your phone with you on the walk on the beach or no?

[Kerrick Butler]

I like to track my miles, so I do. But outside of that, I'll put it silent. So I'm listening to some music.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, you put it on silent. Okay.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yeah, yeah. That's what I do for that. Or listen to music. I'm enjoying my own life.

[Joni Lamb]

We like to ride our bikes.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

Like, just go on. We go like an 8 mile, 11 mile ride on the bike. And it's just. It's beautiful, it's peaceful. Sometimes I don't listen to music because there might be a car or something coming. I gotta be able to see it. But tell us about why you wrote the book and a little bit just about growing up in the Butler family.

[Kerrick Butler]

Well, I wrote the book after I preached it to my church first. I started. I thought it was a weekend message. You know, you preach one weekend message, a good tomorrow day weekend. And then the topic kept going. It went 10 different messages. I'm like, well, maybe there's a little bit more to what I need to dive into. And then I took it. I was preaching at staff Chapel at Kenneth Copeland Ministries and I shared on it there. And Pastor George Pierce said, this needs to be a book. Quick.

[Joni Lamb]

Wow.

[Kerrick Butler]

And so I started writing it and sharing with more people that said, here we have to hear about this. And so that's kind of the journey of it. But even growing up as a butler, my uncle is Bishop Keith Butler. He's a prester. So many churches in America, planted in America and around the world.

[Joni Lamb]

Great man of God.

[Kerrick Butler]

Great man of God. He's been my mentor. When I was a teenager, he would take me around one week out of the summer, wherever he was going in the world. So whether it's the US he took me to Kenneth Hagin's last campmeeting. And so I've traveled with him all around the world. But I remember one time when I was.

[Joni Lamb]

Those were always exciting. I hear those camp meetings.

[Kerrick Butler]

Those were wild times. I have wild memories, and it was awesome.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah.

[Kerrick Butler]

And I remember one time I was working for him in Texas, helping him planting churches in different places. And I walked to his office and I was talking to him and he told me, I'm behind on my vacation schedule. I need to rest. He says, you know, he pastored three churches at one time, so he has a mindset for pastoring, one mindset for pastoring two. To him, pastoring two churches is easy for him. I'm like, well, God bless you, sir. But then blessing three, he says, every time I pastor three churches, I need to take a vacation. At this amount of months, he says, I'm a little bit behind, but I'm going to do that in a couple weeks. And so he had a system. He knew himself well enough that I need to schedule time to break so I can keep doing what God has called me to do. And I remember that in his office, it was just me and him. I was like, well, let me take a mental note because I have to learn myself and what do I need so I can get into that rhythm for my life?

[Joni Lamb]

Well, the Lord actually spoke to you about this?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

And you didn't obey.

[Kerrick Butler]

Right.

[Joni Lamb]

So tell us that story.

[Kerrick Butler]

So, you know, years go by and sometimes, you know, you don't have to rest. You know, youth kind of covers it up.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Right.

[Kerrick Butler]

But I remember one time we came out of a season where our house was destroyed because of water. Happened during the holidays.

[Joni Lamb]

Was that just the most awful thing in the world? It was. It was during the holidays what water damage will do.

[Kerrick Butler]

Water damage, multiple places in the house. We had a newborn, so we had to leave the house. So all the things were going on. So we finally settled where we're going. And so, well, I'm going to take a walk and pray because my version of rest is walking. So I'm walking and praying. And the Lord began to speak to me. He started talking to me about what he wants to do in the body of Christ, how there's a move of refreshing coming to the body of Christ. He talked to me about what my role is in it. And he says, here's what I need you to do. I'm thinking he's going to say, you need to fast, you need to pray, you need to study. He says, I need you to stay refreshed. Okay. So I began to learn a little bit. You know, when he talks to you, you begin to act on it a little bit. So am I sleeping enough? But then life happens, kind of forget about it. So I get to the end of the year, really just analyzing myself. Okay, what did the Lord speak to me this year? Oh, he told me to stay refreshed. Did I stay refreshed? No, I did not. I had to repent like Lord, you told me, and I missed it. Please forgive me. And I realized I needed to learn more.

[Joni Lamb]

And what were some of your mistakes that year?

[Kerrick Butler]

Sometimes, you know, we let things get to us. You know how you plan a day? At first, I'm going to rest, I'm going to enjoy. Things are going good for that hour. Then you get a text or you see something on social media or something happens, and instead of going 10 minutes to deal with it, you let it ruin your day. And so that was sometimes like, okay, I got it for 10 minutes. I might as well work for the next 10 hours. That was a mentality I had to change. It was an emotional mindset. I had to change so that I don't throw away a day just because there was a crisis.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

I'm in ministry.

[Joni Lamb]

You would set a day to rest. The Lord told you to do that. And then interruptions would come and you would let that overrule the decision you had made to make the day of rest.

[Kerrick Butler]

Not just overrule my decision, but also overrule my emotions. And so the thing is, you know, Jesus said, come to me. I'll show you how to rest. Take a real rest. And he says, learned of me. I'm meek and lowly of heart. He's saying, I have my emotions in. And so sometimes we miss out on rest because our emotions are all over the place.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Absolutely.

[Kerrick Butler]

And God has given us rest. Like people taking vacations before. They say, I'm spending all this money, going to enjoy it, but one little thing happens and they're mad the rest of the vacation. So you spend all this money to enjoy, but you allowed your emotions to become a roller coaster, and now you're not at rest.

[Joni Lamb]

So part of the rest is controlling those emotions.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

So another thing you talked about is sleep.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

You changed your schedule.

[Kerrick Butler]

I had to change my schedule first. I had to start tracking how much I slept. Because before I'm like, I'm okay. And my wife told Me, you need to go to sleep. I said, well, Napoleon conquered Europe in four hours. I'm good. She said, napoleon was crazy. Go to bed. And so I started tracking it. I started counting how many hours I was sleeping every night. And I learned something called sleep debt that your body could actually have sleep debt that your body remembers how much sleep it should have had, but it doesn't have. So I started tracking it. I said, okay, I need to sleep more. Then I started learning when do I get my best rest? What time during the night?

[Joni Lamb]

Because you were going to bed at what time?

[Kerrick Butler]

I'm a night hour by nature, so midnight was early. Could be one. Could be. I'll be sending emails at 2am, writing at 3am and then I'll go to sleep for about five hours and hop back up. And so I had to stop that. You know, I got five kids and the thing is in pastoring and I'm also the president of the business association of area, so I'm very involved in the communities, going to schools, all these different things. So if I'm going to do that, I can't stay up late and wake up early all the time.

[Joni Lamb]

So now it's like 10 o'. Clock.

[Kerrick Butler]

It's about 10 o'.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

Clock.

[Joni Lamb]

And did that just refresh you?

[Kerrick Butler]

It did. I had to first change my mindset because that's when friends say, kerrick, you just need to go to bed early. I said, but I like staying up late. And so I had to change my mindset. And now I'm up early before everybody else and enjoy it.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Because the reality is, regardless of what time you go to sleep, those little ones are going to be waking up early no matter what time.

[Kerrick Butler]

You know something I learned about that, because sometimes, you know, the Lord will lead you take a nap, go to bed earlier, and you're like, well, no, the kids are asleep. I want to stay up. I want to watch the show. I want to do this. I'm going to be productive. Let me get stuff done. But if the spirit of God is leading you to rest, he knows something, you know, because that's going to be the night the kids can wake up in the middle of the night and he'll be up with them for a couple of hours. And then you wake up in the morning and say, man, I didn't get enough sleep. But God told us go to bed early because he knew that was the night the kid was going to wake up.

[Joni Lamb]

Once you did, that first message did, what was it that resonated that caused it to Continue. What did you say in it that really resonated with people that were like, okay, we need more teaching on this.

[Kerrick Butler]

They started talking to me about this. Pastor, you've hit on something. I'm not resting at all. I don't know how to rest. And so I started teaching how to rest, how to take a break, how to take a vacation. First you got to block off that time. You know, we like to schedule. Some of us are very schedule oriented, and we can schedule some things, but we don't schedule rest because we don't value rest. And one of the things I've learned from the scripture, anytime we take holy things and make them common, and the rest is called holy in the scripture, but we treat it as common in our hustle culture. We grind, we move, but rest is holy.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so set a time. That's one thing. What else?

[Kerrick Butler]

You set a time and then you block it off. But also you have to learn. How do you rest? Because some people say, I'm going to rest. Well, what does that look like?

[Joni Lamb]

Right?

[Kerrick Butler]

Well, what do you need to do? Find out how you rest.

[Joni Lamb]

Is this once a week you talked.

[Kerrick Butler]

About that you need to do it maybe at least once a week, but sometimes you have certain seasons that we're.

[Joni Lamb]

Kind of commanded to do it once a week.

[Kerrick Butler]

We're kind of commanded for the Sabbath.

[Joni Lamb]

Right, Right.

[Kerrick Butler]

And so under the old covenant, there was a day of Sabbath. There was a year Sabbath. But on the new covenant, we don't have a day of Sabbath. We have the Lord of Sabbath. So he sets the rhythm. So we actually have to talk to him about our weekly schedule.

[Joni Lamb]

Because some people may need a day and a half.

[Kerrick Butler]

They may need a day and a half. You may need two days. Let him show you what you need, because your body needs rest, your mind needs rest, your emotions needs rest, your spirit needs rest. Your family needs rest.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

What does rest look like for your family?

[Kerrick Butler]

For my family. So we have this huge family. I'm the active rest person. My wife is. I'm gonna sit by the pool, by the beach. Rest person.

[Joni Lamb]

Me and your wife, we're like. We're buddies.

[Kerrick Butler]

You guys would be enjoying it. I'm gonna jump in the ocean with the kids, probably throw them in the oce after I ran a few miles. That's my version of rest. And so we've been learning what each one needs.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Okay.

[Kerrick Butler]

One needs to be active. One needs to. I want to go set aside and read a book. One wants to be very involved and wants to have a movie day with Us, so we learn each one and we're prioritizing our life around that.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Do you rest outside of your kids? Like as a parent and as a couple? Do you think that's important?

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes, it's very important. And you have to learn how to do it.

[Joni Lamb]

Don't you think that day is important?

[Kerrick Butler]

We've learned to do date days. Not so much date night. And so in this season of life with little kids, we do date days. So we'd go, we're gonna do this together. We might go to watch this movie. We might go to eat out or nights, go on a walk. It's important because you have to take time aside for yourselves.

[Joni Lamb]

I love the rest that you do with your family. Tell everybody about Taco Tuesday.

[Kerrick Butler]

Taco Tuesday. So we started a number of years ago. And so we do it every single Tuesday. And so even my staff knows, don't bother him on Tuesday evenings. Cause it's Taco Tuesday. My whole church knows it's Taco Tuesday. Don't mess with Pastor. And so we block out that time. We cook tacos, lay out a spread on the T. And we sit around the table, we eat, we listen to music, we laugh. It's one of our weekly things. One of my daughters calls it a weekly holiday. And so they know what they expect it during the fall, winter. I'll make some taco soup with it. And we'll just have a great time. We lay out a spread. And so it's not just like in their plate, but it's like they can reach and grab it. It's a whole family experience.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

So you got like, what? Tell me what else in the middle. Cause I'm envisioning right now.

[Kerrick Butler]

So we do the ground turkey. Then we might have jalapenos. Cause I love spicy things. Then we have bell peppers and peppers and a lot of cheese. Tons, mountains of cheese. Guacamole, apples, avocados. And you have tomatoes. You have a whole list, whole thing right there.

[Joni Lamb]

I want tacos and tons of chips.

[Kerrick Butler]

Tons of tortilla chips.

[Joni Lamb]

And during the holidays, multiple times, they.

[Dorothy Newton]

Will remember that and implement that.

[Joni Lamb]

And the queso you have that I.

[Kerrick Butler]

Had to cut by the queso at one point, but because my wife was pregnant. You can't have queso while you're pregnant. So I was like, I can't put that on the table while she's pregnant. That's.

[Cindy Johnston]

You know, what you're doing is you're establishing traditions.

[Kerrick Butler]

Right?

[Cindy Johnston]

And that gives kids such confidence. When there's traditions, they can depend on you?

[Joni Lamb]

Yes. Well, you know, there are people watching. You're listening, and you're like, I need to do this. I know I need to do this. The thing is, is if you don't do it right, then sometimes God will sit you down in another way.

[Kerrick Butler]

I call it a forced rest.

[Joni Lamb]

A forced rest? You don't want a forced rest.

[Kerrick Butler]

You do not want a forced rest. You know, we saw that in the scripture when the Israelites were removed from the land, and the reason why is because they did not let the land rest. So it said the land had rest 70 years. Now, what does our bodies make from the dirt? If the land have to rest, how much more do our bodies have to rest? If not, we're in a forced rest, whether it's physical, whether it's mental, whether it's emotional. And a lot of times people are going through things in their families because they never rested. Right. So I'm going to hustle. I'm going to work hard during this time. I'm going to make all this money, and then I'm going to rest and enjoy. But now you have to spend that money, spend that bag on everything you need to get your family like you again because you didn't prioritize them while you were working. So that's still forced rest in a different form.

[Joni Lamb]

That's so good.

[Dorothy Newton]

Your head.

[Joni Lamb]

Yes.

[Dorothy Newton]

If we don't rest, then our bodies will pay a great price.

[Cindy Johnston]

A lot of times our bodies rebel.

[Joni Lamb]

That will be the force rest for sure. Well, listen, we're going to talk more with Kerrick when we come back from this break. Stay right there.

[Kerrick Butler]

Take a moment. Find yourself deeper.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Connection starts with understanding every language.

[Kerrick Butler]

Helps you discover the art of relating to others. Your strengths, your weaknesses in detailed summary to bring you closer to those around you. Everyone wants to be understood. Find the connection that you've been missing. Get your [e-mail] well, we're talking with.

[Joni Lamb]

Pastor Kerrick Butler, whose book Rhythm of Rest. Rachel, just quickly kind of share how the Lord dealt with you on the whole sleep thing. You and Josh have a funny story.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Well, it's so funny. When me and my husband went to marriage counseling, they give you, like, all these questions, and you've got to fill them out. And we did this one.

[Joni Lamb]

I know, I know.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

You have to fill it out separately. And then you come together, and we were really solid on most of them. I think we're probably a little unique in the fact that I was, like, wanting to know everything before I got into this. I'M like, I need to know all the things. But the one question.

[Cindy Johnston]

Well, the one question.

[Joni Lamb]

Yes.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

I was like, you gotta add this to this questionnaire, is what time do.

[Joni Lamb]

You go to bed?

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Because I was like you. I was a night owl. I stayed up all night, but my husband went to bed early.

[Joni Lamb]

And so it was driving him crazy.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Yes.

[Joni Lamb]

Because he wanted to go to bed, like nine o', clock, and she's like, two o'. Clock.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Da, da da, da da da da. Yeah, yeah. So that was like, we literally never fought at all. And when people would ask, like, how's your first year of marriage? I was like, it's great. We just can't get aligned on when we go to sleep. And so, you know, I just have a lot of drive, a lot of, you know, just wanting to do everything with excellence. I always joke around with my team. I'm a recovering perfectionist, because I don't know that you ever fully get there. But I learned when I got out of college the world doesn't reward perfection. It rewards people who get stuff done. And so. So I had to go through this, like, you know, journey with the Lord. When I wanted to become a mom, I knew that it wasn't.

[Joni Lamb]

I was gonna say, two kids will change that to you. Yeah, that's true.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

It couldn't be a reality that I was at the office till, like, 10, 11, 12, and it wasn't because anybody was making me be here. I remember dad would email me, go home, your mom has made dinner, come home. And he knew, like, he wasn't gonna call me, he was gonna have to send an email because I would be working.

[Joni Lamb]

It's true, it's true.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

But, you know, we just had to unlearn some of those kind of bad habits that I got into. And like I said earlier at the beginning of the show, the Lord convicted my heart. And he said, if you do less, I can do more in your life.

[Joni Lamb]

I love that.

[Cindy Johnston]

You know, I was very much the same way as you. I'm a night person. I feel better at night. I have more energy at night. I wake up in the morning and I don't feel good to start with. So I have had to change everything, including my confession. I wake up in the morning, say, I'm energized. I have joy, I have strength, you know, when it wasn't there. But if you start changing your confession, you change the words that come out of your mouth as well as change your sleep habit.

[Joni Lamb]

It can make a difference.

[Cindy Johnston]

Otherwise, I was doing forced rest.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Yeah, it's not just sleep, but something that helped me as I now work out in the morning and having that consistent. It kind of helps with sleep instead.

[Joni Lamb]

Of doing that at night. Yeah, for sure. I think me going to bed earlier and waking up early, like you said, I think that time my mind is really clear for the Lord to speak to me early in the morning. Well, I married someone that's like the two of you. Okay. And I was the one that was in bed earlier. But I just. And you like to lay on the beach and read your book.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Yes, exactly.

[Joni Lamb]

That's what I like to do. That's rest. But we had to come together as well, trying to figure out what would work best. But it is. I found as well, going to bed earlier and getting up earlier. It seems like you can get a lot more accomplished during the day by doing that.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

And I think that's like, scientific, right? Like, there's certain times you get into that 80th rhythm.

[Joni Lamb]

Yes. No. You know, honestly, guys, I know you probably think it's funny, but the most refreshing re. Energizing thing that I do is watch Korean tv. I mean, I every. I mean, think about it. You have to read the subtitles. You know, I can't text, I can't answer the phone. I can't do anything but read the subtitles. It is the most enjoyable thing. That's honestly how I rest when. Well, there's other things you do. I know you listen to worship music. Absolutely. I mean, God is always first. But I can tell you at the end of day, from 9:30 to 11:30, I'm watching Korean. I'll never forget this program today. I had no idea this about Dorothy's I'm gonna learn Korean.

[Cindy Johnston]

She has told me that. And I said, do you speak any Korean? She said it's coming to her. Yeah, she's learning as she watches.

[Dorothy Newton]

You know, David and I are different in that he's a night owl. But what would happen is I'd say, well, baby, I'm not going to bed without you. And it didn't take long until I kept. I would just lay on the couch if he wanted to work or whatever and go to sleep. But he got to feeling so bad that I needed to go to bed, but I wouldn't go without him. That he changed the way he goes to bed. Now he goes to bed earlier. I am more productive. We are as a couple, more productive by going to bed early.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, yeah. I think so too. I came up earlier. Well, you know, I don't want to sound like, super spiritual, but for me, like, even like taking a bath, that's restful, but putting on. Because you're with your phone now, you can put on the word of God and have it read to you while you just close your eyes. That's really powerful, too, isn't it?

[Dorothy Newton]

It is.

[Kerrick Butler]

It is. You have to learn how you rest, and you take advantage of it. So you know how you rest. You know how you rest. So whatever the way you rest, whether it's listening to Korean tv, whether it's taking a bath, protecting, treat it like. I will not interrupt this. Because once you know that, it's a blessing to you and it's a gift of God to you.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Why do you think this concept is so hard?

[Joni Lamb]

Because the culture we live in, it is right here. Right here. The phone, social media, I don't know.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

I feel like Gen Z might be getting it because. But the millennials, we're like, very hustle culture.

[Dorothy Newton]

Well, used to. I remember as I got older and a young adult, you were made to feel bad if you needed much sleep. Like, you were lazy, you were not productive.

[Joni Lamb]

How could you.

[Dorothy Newton]

That much sleep? So it was indoctrinated.

[Joni Lamb]

I'm just saying, the Internet, AI social media. I mean, all of us sitting here at this table, if you lost your phone today, you'd be panicking. We've got to get to a place where we put that phone down. We bought a little cabinet. Rachel showed it to me online.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

I sent her this little phone cabinet.

[Joni Lamb]

And when they come over, like, to get in the pool, we're like, putting it in the cabinet. You're not taking your phone out to the pool. Like, we're going to. To play with the kids. That's super cool.

[Dorothy Newton]

During the meal, put it in the cabinet.

[Joni Lamb]

You know, at the meal. Like, have you ever looked around a restaurant? Oh, I know it. At a family, they're all on their phone. So this is a big deal, right?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

It is.

[Kerrick Butler]

And so we've had to learn how to put the phone in the other room. And so one of the things I had part of this journey. Cause, you know, I was just.

[Joni Lamb]

What happens on Taco Tuesday? Where are the phones?

[Kerrick Butler]

Somewhere else? Yeah, at the other side of the room. Because I had to start doing this when I woke up in the morning. I don't sleep next to my phone anymore. No, that was a big habit to get away from. Because, you know, the reason I slept next to it is because that's what I'm on right before I fall asleep.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Yeah, right.

[Kerrick Butler]

And your alarm and the alarm. And so I had to learn. Well, you know what? I can put the alarm on my watch and keep the phone in the other room. And then I can make sure I wake up.

[Joni Lamb]

I started putting my phone in the other room, too.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Cause even if I have it on vibrating.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Wait, how do you wake up?

[Joni Lamb]

That's why clocks are. There's called an alarm clock. How do you wake it up? That is alarm. It's what we used in the olden. We used in the olden days.

[Dorothy Newton]

Guess what you're getting in your stocking this year.

[Cindy Johnston]

Yeah, either that or a rooster.

[Joni Lamb]

We have a clock. We have a clock so we can see what time it is. And then we have.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

You actually said it.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

And he goes, bong, bong.

[Cindy Johnston]

I love the name of your book, the Rhythm of Rest. Because we each have our own rhythm. We each have our own way that God's dealing with us. And to find our specific rhythm is really important, isn't it?

[Kerrick Butler]

It's really important because we live offbeat and not rebel.

[Cindy Johnston]

See, I rebelled against my rhythm. My rhythm might have been saying, go to sleep. And I'd say, no, I've got stuff to do, you know, so we have to.

[Joni Lamb]

I mean, I've been done the same thing. Stayed up late.

[Cindy Johnston]

Oh, yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

But you know what? If you get on that phone and start scrolling, you can go an hour and not even realize it.

[Cindy Johnston]

I know it.

[Joni Lamb]

It's so crazy. So how about just taking a moment, if you would, Kerrick, and just pray for those that are watching right now that you know, you know, you're not resting, and it's showing up in your body, your soul, and your spirit, and all of those need rest.

[Kerrick Butler]

Yes. Now I'm going to pray for you, and you're going to have the best rest of your life.

[Joni Lamb]

Ready?

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Amen.

[Kerrick Butler]

That's great.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Take my hands up.

[Kerrick Butler]

Father, I thank you that you are the God of peace. And part of the definition of peace is rest. So I pray for everyone under the sound of my voice. I pray that they'll be refreshed right now, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, that they receive rest in their family, rest in their social life. I pray for those who struggle with going to sleep, who are dealing with nightmares and night terrors. I rebuke that in the name of Jesus, because you said, you give us sleep because you love us, so we receive sleep because you love us and rest. I ask that you grant us wisdom so that we know how to rest and live in the rhythm of rest. Father, I also ask for those who are believing to take the best vacation of their life, I ask that you grant them everything they need to take that vacation. And when they go, they have favor and they experience upgrade after upgrade after upgrade. Protect them as they travel, protect them as they come back. May they enjoy the rest you provide for them. In Jesus name, amen.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, we are out of time, but I want to leave you with this. God created you to have rest in your life. And when we strive in our own strength, we fail because we are not called to live by our own strength. The Lord tells us in Matthew 11, Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. If you need rest today, maybe you don't know Jesus. The most important prayer that you could pray today is to invite him into your heart. Just say, jesus, I believe you died on the cross for my sins. Forgive me. Come into my heart today and be Lord and savior of my life. And I'll tell you what that is the prayer that prepares you for eternity. And there's nothing, nothing more important than that. I always talk about my grandpa. He had such a great influence on my life. He didn't know how to pray and he just said, God, if you're there, God if you're there, I need you. At 19 years of age and God transformed his life. Boy, there was a prayer line number on the screen. Prayer partners are standing by. If you prayed that prayer, call us, let us know. We'd love to send you the book of John. The Gospel of John is a great place to start. It's our free gift to you and just our way of saying we love you. We're believing God to do great things in your life. I want to thank Pastor Kerrick Butler for joining us today. Be sure you pick up a copy of his book. It's called Rhythm of God's Blueprint for a Fulfilling Life. It's available now on all major platforms. You can also visit him online [e-mail] as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes. Exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. You can also listen to the Joanie Table Talk podcast, available now on all major platforms. I still can't believe Dorothy watches Korean tv, but she does. Thank you so much for watching today. We'll see you next time. God bless you. Bye bye. For today.

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[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Was diagnosed, all I wanted to do was get back to work. I wanted to get back to that trajectory that I was on. Prior to the cancer. I always felt like I had value. I had a place on the team to just be treated with dignity.

[Joni Lamb]

It means everything.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place.

[Joni Lamb]

For healing, learn more and sign the [e-mail]. Well, what if many of the illnesses we face today are not only physical but signals pointing us toward a deeper healing, one that begins in our thoughts, emotions and spirit. Well, today's guest reveals God's blueprint for total recovery and how his design allows us to walk in wholeness from the inside out. But before we get to that journey around the church is Cindy Johnston. How are you?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Hey.

[Joni Lamb]

I'm doing great. Hey.

[Dorothy Newton]

Hey.

[Joni Lamb]

Happy to be here today and learn. Yeah. I'm thankful to be able to hear people that have been in medicine and have studied and shown themselves to be brilliant people, but have seen ways that God can do things that are different than maybe what they were taught. There's nothing better than a doctor who brings a God card into it. Dorothy need absolutely referring to every day to me. I mean, they're the best ones. I mean, to be led by God and the Holy Spirit, you couldn't have anything better. We have a new doctor here at the table, don't we?

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Rachel Lambert Yeah, and our health really is compromised of mind, body and spirit. And so many times we don't really think about the mind and how it affects our overall health. So I'm interested to learn more about that today.

[Joni Lamb]

Rebecca Lamb Weiss, I know that this is interesting to you as well as you're you and Rachel both always interested in health and nutrition, how we can do better, how can we be better? You know, I remember going to Oral Roberts University, and one of the things with ORU was spirit, soul and body. And he was always whole person education. And now that I'm 33 and I look back on that, I was like, oh, wow, that's true. You can't be 33 because I'm only like 38. But we have to steward all things three while we're on this earth, not just one. And we've got Dr. Avery and Kara Marie Jackson at the table. Welcome, guys.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Thanks for having us.

[Joni Lamb]

It's so good to have you. We have a real neurosurgeon today at the table. Well, what if true healing goes deeper than medicine alone? Dr. Avery and Karen Marie reveal why lasting restoration begins when we address the whole person, body, soul and spirit. And they're going to share some powerful insights from his book, the God Prescription. And, hey, this is amazing. A neurosurgeon listening to the Holy Spirit. How did that happen?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Well, he got ahold of me first before neurosurgery, so I was always biased.

[Joni Lamb]

So tell us about. That's an interesting story because a lot of times we think, don't underestimate God speaking to your children or don't underestimate your child praying a prayer and receiving Jesus in their heart. Okay. Because I mean, really is a real thing happened with me in my life. And so I know it happened with you. Tell us what happened.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So my grandmother, who's from Honduras, British Honduras, Belize, a really spicy personality, but when she get upset, her blood pressure would go up, and so she had a stroke. And I loved my grandma, my mom's mom. And so I saw this droopiness on one side of her face when I was in second grade. And so I asked the Lord, how can I help people like my grandmother, who had. And then I heard about a month or so later him say, inside, I want you to be a neurosurgeon. That's your calling. And I was like, I don't even know, like, what that is. No one in my family's a doc. So I looked it up. Neurosurgeon means brain surgeon or spine surgeon. And I answered the call and I Said, okay, Lord, I'll do it.

[Joni Lamb]

So you stuck with it. Wow. Like, from 12. Like, it was that. That's really impressive. It was real to you.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

It was real to me. And even with the challenges, I'm like, lord, now here's all these robots. And you said, I'm gonna be a neurosurgeon, so find a way to help me get through this. Cause, like, I don't see a way. And then 24 years later, then I began practicing neurosurgery, and then I did that for 24 years.

[Joni Lamb]

Can you say one of the roadblocks?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So, like, for instance, tests, like, standardized tests, like, when you're creative and you're thinking outside, like, boundaries, they'll ask you five. You know, they'll say, here's the question and here's five answers. But what. What if there are really more answers than what the creators of the test had in mind? Well, you're going to get the question, the answer, wrong. For instance. And so that was one of the roadblocks, was standardized tests. I hated standardized tests.

[Joni Lamb]

Wow, that's interesting. So tell us about this lovely young lady sitting beside you.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

This is my buddy and my girlfriend and your wife and my wife, Karen. Reef. But I call her my buddy, but her name for me is Buddy. I call her.

[Joni Lamb]

Aw, that's sweet.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

How's everybody?

[Joni Lamb]

So y' all were friends, like, and worked together, but yeah, yeah, I've actually.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Worked for him for 17 years, but.

[Joni Lamb]

There was no connection as far as a romantic.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

I have to say, in the first year that I worked for him, I remember thinking, what a nice guy. What a good brother in the Lord. But I could never be married to him.

[Cindy Johnston]

Wow.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Jeez. Very, very, very high standards and very. This is how we have to do it, and we gotta do it now.

[Joni Lamb]

And la da da, da, da.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

So. But things have changed over the years, Avery.

[Joni Lamb]

She's telling on you, Jen. This is what happens at the table. Okay. So kind of talk a little bit about really going into, if you will. Of course, you've got conventional medicine that you've done. You've, like you said, over thousands.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Over 10,000 surgeries.

[Joni Lamb]

10,000 surgeries. And that would be on the brain and the spine. Right. And did you sense the Lord with you even as you were doing that? Would you pray?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes. Before you do? I used to pray for my patients at home before the day before or the day before I go in. And one day, the Lord said. He said, I want you to pray for your patients. I said, but, Lord, I just did here at home. He goes, no, I want you to pray for them at the hospital before surgery with them. And if you don't acknowledge me before men, I won't acknowledge you before the father.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Whoa.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That was about 15 years ago. And so then I began to pray with them in the hospital.

[Joni Lamb]

And what would they do when you would say that?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And almost everyone would receive it. Almost like, maybe, like, I would say 1% would be like, well, no, that's okay. But almost everyone would always say, yes, please.

[Joni Lamb]

And then afterwards, you have to go under.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yeah. Because you get ready to go under the knife, and it's like, you may not come back.

[Joni Lamb]

You're gonna be counting 10, nine, eight, and you're gone. Right.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And then some people, though, would see that. Nurses and doctors. Some were encouraged, but others would be upset because I was praying and like.

[Joni Lamb]

What are you doing? But tell us about a surgery that, you know, that God inspired and helped you navigate, and you wouldn't have been able to do what you did without him.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So there's so many.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay. I knew there were gonna be, like, a lot.

[Cindy Johnston]

Yes.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So. Cause I pray in my heavenly when I'm operating, and I can feel his peace. And so when I don't have his peace, I'm like, whoa, stop.

[Joni Lamb]

And we'll talk about that in a minute. What that is. People are like, what did he just say? Okay. And you're in the clouds behind you. You look like you're in the heavens. Look behind me here. Yes. Yes. We're talking about in the clouds. Right here. Right here behind me.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So one case. One case was a little boy. Last name was Jackson, and he had a tumor. Brain tumor.

[Joni Lamb]

Just like you.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Just like me. He had a brain tumor. It's called a corner plexus papilloma. So it was in an area of the brain where it was surrounded by spinal fluid, and there was lots of blood vessels, and it continued to bleed. And so we operated for 24 hours straight.

[Joni Lamb]

What?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And I was. I know. So we would take, like, these little sterile naps where it was sterile, and you could sit and, like, kind of close your eyes for a second and get back up. Because he was in such critical condition, we didn't want to close and then redo surgery another day or complete the surgery.

[Joni Lamb]

And so you're having to. To, like, deal with all these little blood vessels before you can even get to.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes. And when you. When you would operate in that area, spinal fluid is actually, like, a blood thinner, so it makes the bleeding worse as you're Cutting.

[Joni Lamb]

And you have to be careful because it's spinal fluid.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes. And careful because you're right in the middle of the brain.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so at what point in the surgery did you think, okay, this is good, this is bad? I don't know. Lord help me.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Well, so the Lord gave me peace, and I was actually a. Assisting a senior surgeon at that time, but he gave me peace about it. We went in and then just there were ups and downs emotionally and otherwise, because you do well, and then there'd be more bleeding. And now pretty soon you're trying to stop the bleeding. It's not stopping. And you're like, well, the child only has so much blood volume before they die. So it was a back and forth, but then at the end, we were able to get the tumor out and stop the bleeding, and then the child did fine.

[Joni Lamb]

Amazing. Wow.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That was the heart. One of the hardest surgery.

[Joni Lamb]

Blood transfusions in the child.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

No, but you're absolutely right, though. A lot of times, especially in adults who are less resilient, we'd have blood transfusions.

[Joni Lamb]

What's the story where it looked like, impossible as far as maybe removing a tumor or something on the spine?

[Cindy Johnston]

Yes.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

There's a gentleman who had a meningioma, a tumor in the neck, in the spine. And I.

[Joni Lamb]

Which is a benign tumor.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

A benign tumor. But it was so big that we thought if we just. If we move the wrong way and take it, it'll paralyze him from his waist, from his arms down.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, my goodness.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And so taking the tumor out, taking out slowly, slowly. And you saw right through the spinal cord, because it was that thin. It had thinned out because of the pressure of the tumor. And so the Lord was. I would ask the Lord, okay, should I go right or left? And should I pull or should I pull from one side to the other? And he would say, don't do that. Do this. And so I was like, okay. Because had I just pulled, and that would have been it. Right. And praise the Lord. Tumor came out, and now he had full recovery.

[Joni Lamb]

Oh, my goodness.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So that was like.

[Joni Lamb]

How big was the tumor?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

It was huge. I mean, it was.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Why would you remember if it was benign?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Because of the pressure. He was starting to have problems with, like, bowel and bladder and walking. And a lot of people didn't want to do his surgery because of how risky it was. Because of how risky it was. Because they knew if we make a mistake, that's it. He's paralyzed. Oh, my God.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, so let's talk about Heavenly language. Yeah.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Oh, yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

So we talk about here many times about salvation, and that's the most important prayer you can pray. And that's where you. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Whosoever believeth in him will not perish but have everlasting life. So I'd say, do you know what's going to happen if you die tomorrow? Do you know where you would go? And if you don't, then I would just encourage to pray this prayer. Because salvation's a free gift.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

You don't have to work for it.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

Kara Marie will tell us about her thinking that she had to work her way to get to heaven. But it's a free gift. It's what Jesus did on the cross for you and me to say, jesus, forgive me, come into my heart. You know, I believe you died on the cross. You were raised on the third day, and you paid the price for my sins. And your blood that you shed on that cross paid for my sin because you came to this earth and lived a sinless life and paid the price for our sin because the Bible says for all have sinned to come short of the glory of God. Okay, I have to tell you all that because then Jesus said, it's expedient that I go away, that the comforter may come. He's talking about the Holy Spirit. And y' all have heard of Father, Son, Holy Spirit, right? Everybody, The Holy Spirit. Nobody wants to talk about the Holy Spirit, but he's on the earth, and he's the one who draws your heart to God. And so he is another gift, right? And so not only do we say, lord, save me and forgive me, but Lord, fill me with your Holy Spirit. And he comes. But the beautiful thing about the Holy Spirit is that he gives us a prayer language.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

He does.

[Joni Lamb]

Let's talk about that.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So in the prayer language, obviously when you pray in tongues, people think that you're just making up words, right? But a Study by Andrew Newberg 2005 at Jefferson Hospital shows that under a certain CAT scan, a SPECT scan, he looked at people who prayed in their heavenly language and then prayed in their normal language, their native language. And when they pray in their native language, the frontal part of their brain, the frontal lobes light up, which makes sense because it's them, right? And that's the sound.

[Joni Lamb]

The part that you use, like communicating.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Communicating to talk, to make sound. But. But when you pray in your heavenly language, those don't light up. And instead the parietal lobes on the sides light up. And what those are are receptive areas. So you're listening and responding and submitting to the Holy Spirit, and then you still make sound, which shouldn't be possible. It shouldn't be possible to make sound and do that.

[Joni Lamb]

So how much did it surprise Dr. Newberg when he discovered that? Was he a believer?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And he was. I know he's Jewish, and I think he had some. He had some. Some belief, but I'm not sure that he was completely. You know.

[Joni Lamb]

But that had to astound him when he said that.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

I think it did. And also his paper from 2005 or the before, he. He had another paper on chanting and hypnosis. And he noted between the 2005 paper and the 2006 paper, praying in Tongues, that that area, in one case when. When you are aware of yourself but not in control, that's where the temporal lobe and parietal lobes lit up. But when you are just in a trance, then that part, the parietal lobe, didn't light up. You weren't aware of yourself is the difference between the two papers. So it's really kind of interesting.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

And he mentioned the difference. Those that were praying in tongues regularly, how emotionally and mentally healthy they were, stable. They were. He actually noted that.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

He noted that in his.

[Joni Lamb]

Rebecca's, like, I'm going to pray more in my prayer languages. And I sit over here thinking about that. So it's a free gift. And you just say, you know, lord, I want everything youg have for me. Fill me with youh Holy Spirit. And so that's for everyone. Right. What about you?

[Karen Marie Jackson]

I was. When I got born again, it was through the charismatic movement in the Catholic Church.

[Joni Lamb]

Because you were older, how old were you at that point?

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Oh, at that point, I was 19.

[Joni Lamb]

19. Okay.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

And there was this program called the Life in the Spirit Seminar. And so it was a teaching and prayer time. And there was prayer, you know, over me. You know, let whatever is in you come out. And it was just a syllable.

[Joni Lamb]

And you're sitting there like, what? Yes, exactly.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

Like, okay, what am I supposed to be doing right now? And I've heard some stories from people saying that they just started saying something because they just wanted to get out of there. But, you know, when it's just your own volition and making, you know, da, da, da sounds or whatever, you can do that with your frontal lobe. But when it's coming from the Holy Spirit, he does take over.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, you know, for me, like, for me it's just the go to when I don't know what to pray or when everything is falling apart or if I'm just completely overwhelmed. I'm just like, this is what I'm gonna do. You pray in the spirit. And what does the Bible say about when we pray in our prayer language?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yeah. So when we're praying out the perfect will of God, which is amazing, it.

[Joni Lamb]

Goes straight into the throne room. He knows exactly what to pray for.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Me and for other people.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

And it's the secret things we pray, the secrets of God.

[Joni Lamb]

Okay, The God prescription. Who is this for and how can it help people?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yeah, it's for everybody, right. For Christians and non Christians. And it can help people understand who they are, especially those that are in Christ and why those aren't in Christ, need to be in Christ and accept the prayer language and accept the Lord as Savior. And then also it supports wellness and spirit, soul and body, because they're all connected. So we, you know, in medicine, it was all about, well, it's the physical body, and therefore this is how you take care of your physical body. But we ignored our emotional life and our spiritual lives. And so that basically means we're only taking care of one third of the person.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

So how do our emotions impact our overall general health?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Right. So 85% of diseases of the body are either caused directly or indirectly by your emotional unwellness. So it's a direct correlation.

[Joni Lamb]

And what is emotional unwellness?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

What can so anxiety, depression.

[Joni Lamb]

Trauma.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Trauma.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

All trauma, especially in children.

[Joni Lamb]

Unforgiveness.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Unforgiveness, especially in children. Bitterness. Because there's a subconscious loop that's created in your subconscious mind. Your subconscious mind functions at about 4 billion actions per second. And every second, about 10 of those thoughts or actions come up to your conscious mind so you can evaluate those. But when the destruction's occurring, you see differently than other people around you. Your perception's different. And that creates a fight or flight phenomenon that was coined by Walter Cannon at Harvard. Harvard. And so that's really important because if you see something that's scary and everybody else thinks is fine, your body is going to react that way and your brain is going to tell your body, you know, something's really wrong. And that creates a whole host of problems in your body.

[Joni Lamb]

So what are some of the things for people who are watching that they may be doing or that things that may be happening to them that is causing physical illness? And you're completely convinced that spiritual, spiritual and emotional issues can affect our physical body?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

I'M completely convinced. And the reason is because of the natural killer cell, which is a part of the immune system. We see what happens to the natural killer cell when you have depression or anxiety. People tend to have more upper respiratory tract infections and other infections. And even in my own practice, I saw people who had clinical anxiety and depression, they healed less well. Like, I could put stitches in after I'm done surgery, and they're spots, but the skin wouldn't close. It wouldn't heal.

[Joni Lamb]

Wait, what would that natural killer cell do in someone with depression or anxiety?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So the natural killer cell has two primary functions. It kills viruses and infections and pre cancerous and cancer cells. So when the natural killer cell isn't functioning normally, then your risk of inflammation and infection and cancer is higher.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, and I told you we were talking about this earlier, that I have several oncologists from. And one of them has been practicing for 30 years. He told me that if he has a patient that doesn't know the Lord or has lost hope, hope deferred makes the heart sick, that so many times they are the ones that can't recover. You can have two patients with the same and treat them and one be healed and the other die. And he said, and you could trace it all back to the loss of hope.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right. When you have a relationship with the Lord, he is greater than you. So now you're not relying on your ability to know that you have help and you have authority and you have power and all those, all those things that will affect your emotional life, and.

[Joni Lamb]

He lives on the inside of you. What people don't understand, when you invite Jesus in, he. We become the righteousness of God in Christ. Right. So talk a little bit about.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So because we are a spirit man, a human on the inside of what is an earth suit, he will allow, will empower us to understand who we are. And once you understand that you're not your earth suit, then that changes everything. Because now you say, okay, wait a minute. That means that I can help heal myself through the Holy Spirit physically, my physical body and my emotions, because I know who I really am as a spirit being.

[Joni Lamb]

And what kind of things are there, like materials? There was just your book, the God prescription, but the word of God, the Bible.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yeah.

[Joni Lamb]

Like what practices. Yeah. What practices can they do to help in the healing process? Look, Sharon Marie, she's ready. She's ready. That's a personal example, okay.

[Karen Marie Jackson]

You know, of a situation where you feel really anxious about something that, you know, you just, you just can't stop in yourself. Yes, stop thinking about it. Well, what happens? You know, your heart rate might go up, your palms might sweat, your stomach might feel nauseous. So those are physical reactions to what's going on internally. So that tells us there's a connection. But what does Isaiah 26:3 say? I will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on me because he. He trusts in me. So for myself, a situation like that, of thinking, you know, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? And of course that's the accuser wanting to keep putting that in our head. But when you purposely say, okay, no, Lord, the situation is real, but I am gonna keep my mind stayed on you and you're gonna keep me in perfect peace because.

[Joni Lamb]

But we can receive healing and restoration and all the things that we need physically, spiritually and emotionally because of what Jesus did on the cross. It all goes back to that.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

And the whipping post, the people that were watching the Passion with Mel Gibson's movie, there were so many testimonies of when he was the 39 stripes or when he was being crucified or when they saw the blood running down cross, that people were actually healed watching that. Because the Bible says he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him. And with his stripes we are healed.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Yes, that's right.

[Joni Lamb]

Talk a little bit about that.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So healing is spiritual, emotional and physical. When I say spiritual, our spirit man is completely formed and is completely powerful. The issue. The issue is our knowledge and our awareness of who we are and our authority in Christ. That's the issue. So that's what's broken. So that's where our relationship with Christ and the Holy Spirit comes in. And once we know who we are spiritually, then that's going to affect our emotional life. And then we go, wow, I have a future. I have hope. I have all this authority and power. And then once we understand that emotionally, now that's going to affect the natural killer cell, our immune system, our blood pressure versus when we're anxious, the blood pressure is higher.

[Joni Lamb]

For instance, you know, April's not here today. She's usually on the table. April Simons and her mother, Dodie Osteen, the testimony of how she came home from the hospital, she had four stage that liver had metastasized to the liver. And they basically said she has weeks to live. And she comes home and gets up and cooks April breakfast and continues her Life like she has nothing and even stands on the Bible, I think, well, she said, I will live and not die.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

The works of the Lord and lived on to be in my 90s. And so what about that, like that mindset? Because again, it's not about. You're not denying what you have, but you're declaring that God is greater.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's exactly right. And also my children know my voice. And the voice of a stranger I'll not follow is really important. So which voice are we listening to? Are we listening to the voice that says you have this and you're to going, are we listening to God's voice that says, you know, then greater is he that is in me than he is in the world? And that you are an overcomer and that you're healed. And I think you have to spend time with him, praying in tongues and the word to actually believe what he's saying is true for you.

[Joni Lamb]

And every journey's different. I mean, because, I mean, there are people that I've interviewed that were miraculous, healed. That's a miracle. Like we're just overnight. And then there are other people that were healed and went through a healing journey. And the Lord even used it to teach him important lessons. He didn't cause it, but he will use everything in our life. Is that right?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's exactly right. Especially faith and patience. They go together. So Pastor Deborah, which is Bishop Butler's wife, which is my spiritual dad, wrote a book on the Wonder Twins, faith and patience. And you see that in our journeys, like with everything we've been going through, is that, you know, I've learned that when I'm giving a lecture or I'm doing surgery, if it's just me and I'm 100% confident, how often am I actually listening to the Holy Spirit? But when I'm in partnership with the Holy Spirit, I always feel like a little bit off because I know I'm not in control. And that's an okay place to be, knowing that he still has me.

[Joni Lamb]

And it's impossible, truly impossible, I believe, for you to be able to do a 24 hour surgery without the Holy Spirit, because physically your body, you're tired and you have to tap into that inner strength of. You're impressed with that 24 hour service, aren't you?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Sure, yeah. Amen.

[Joni Lamb]

Well, listen, would you just take a moment and just encourage someone that's watching? I don't know what you're going through, but you need an answer. And I'm just telling you the Answer is in God. Okay? And he's going to help you. Would you just take a moment and encourage Dr. Jackson?

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

So whatever you're going through right now, understand that God and that he is all powerful and he's all love. And all you have to do is accept him into your heart by asking him into your heart. And you say, lord God. Lord God, I ask that you come into my heart and that you forgive me for my sins.

[Joni Lamb]

That you forgive me for my sins.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And that you died for me for my ailments or any problem that I have on the cross.

[Joni Lamb]

That you died for me for my.

[Rachel Lamb Weiss]

Illness or any problem that I have.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And then you went to hell in my place. And then you rose again on the third day. And now you're in heaven with the Father advocating for me. And now you are my Lord and Savior.

[Joni Lamb]

You are my Lord and Savior.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And I'm born again.

[Joni Lamb]

And I'm born again.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's all you have to do, folks. And so now you have all the richness and authority and ability to be whole in spirit, soul and body. And just because you received him today. So congratulations.

[Joni Lamb]

And fill me with your Holy Spirit.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

And fill me with your Holy Spirit.

[Joni Lamb]

Yeah. Because he's the one who will lead and guide us into all truth. And he is our helper on the earth.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

That's right.

[Joni Lamb]

And his presence is on the earth, drawing the hearts of men to God. They all work together in tandem. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So powerful. Is this good? So, Cindy, I think. Did you say anything? Oh, yeah, I did. You did? You said. Did everybody say something? Okay. Well, we are out of time, but I want you to remember that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And when you fully surrender your life to him, he brings healing and wholeness to every part of you, body, soul and spirit. And even in a broken world, you can lay hold fast to his promises and walk in true freedom. If you're watching today and you need prayer, if you prayed that prayer with Dr. Avery, I want you to call that number on the screen. We have amazing prayer partners that are standing by that would love to pray with you and I'd love to send you the gospel of your John. It's a free gift. It's a great place to start in the Bible. And I'm going to tell you something. The Bible is your secret weapon. Okay? And just go into it and grab a verse. I remember when I was a teenager, I just did one of those turn the pages, which I don't say you should do that kind of landed on. Jesus said, come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. And it was the season in my life. I just needed to know he was with me. He'll give you that. He'll give you that peace. I promise. He will change your life. Well, I want to thank Dr. Avery and Karen Marie Jackson for joining us today. Be sure you pick up a copy of Avery's book the Guide prescription. You need to get it. For more you can visit them [e-mail] and as always, make sure to follow us on our social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes and exclusive content. And let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. You can also listen to the Joni Table podcasts, available now on all major platforms. And some of you are sitting there saying, I still don't get that prayer language thing. Well, the Lord's going to show you, don't be afraid. It's not anything to be afraid of. It's a beautiful experience. God wants to use it in your life. I want to thank you so much for watching. Thank you ladies. Thank you, Dr. Jackson. Thank you, Karen Marie for being here today. We'll see you next time. Bye bye for today. I think when you're diagnosed with cancer, you crave a semblance of normalcy and control. And so work allowed me to be me. So I think it's really important that companies stay flexible. Cancer in a diagnosis can be all consuming, but it doesn't have to be.

[Dr. Avery Jackson]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better, better place for healing.

[Joni Lamb]

Learn more and sign the [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.