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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Well, you know, as the Bible remains the world's bestselling book, people everywhere are seeking a deeper understanding of God. Yet many still wonder how to begin that journey. Well, today's guest shares practical, powerful ways, of course, that you can spark your devotional life and tune your heart to hear his voice. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is April Simons. And of course, we're talking about the book of Books, which is the Bible. The Bible. And how has that impacted your life?
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B
Oh, my goodness. It's changed my life. It's what I rely on every day. And I love the book that we're going to talk about today because it makes the Bible practical. My granddaughter said, gigi, I don't really like reading the Bible.
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A
She's eight.
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B
There's honesty right there.
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A
There's when you're over there in Leviticus.
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B
I said, where are you reading? She said, genesis. And I said, let me help you.
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A
Out a little bit, sister.
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B
So I told her. I took her to Matthew and just told her, you know, kind of like you offer the book of John and just making. That's what this does.
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A
It's going to help so many people.
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C
Yeah.
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A
So good. Anna Kendall, how are you?
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D
Oh, I'm just great. And I'm so excited because the Bible is active. It is alive. It is so powerful.
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A
It really is. Rachel Ann Brown, the Bible is still the number one selling book.
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E
I know, it's wild. And it's had this, like, revival in these coming days. And I love our guest today. He's been a pastor for 20 years, very successful entrepreneur. And I love his heart and desire to see especially young people fall in.
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A
Love with this book.
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E
And so he's made it easy to acquire, to understand how to read it better.
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A
That's good. That's good. Dorothy Newton, I know the Bible is a very important part of your world.
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F
Oh, my goodness. So important. You know, it's the only thing that we have that never changes, like, never, ever changes in today's society with our younger generations. Oh, my goodness, this is so good.
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A
It's so important, Cindy Johnson, that we understand the Bible, that we can read it and understand it. And that's what we're going to talk about today because a lot of things we talk about are on the table are not our opinions. They're based on what the word of God has to say, which was inspired by the Holy Spirit, as these men wrote. So this is actually God speaking to us. A lot of people don't get that.
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G
Yeah. It will speak to your heart. It will bring comfort to you at the times you need comfort, but it also corrects you the moments that you need to be corrected. Because you see stories of people that live life that made mistakes. God forgave them, helped them, and that's what the Bible will do for you.
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F
That's so good.
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A
That's so good. Well, he says so. Celebrated speaker, entrepreneur, and author, please welcome our guest today, Benjamin Wendell.
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D
Hello.
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C
Hello. Hello. Welcome.
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H
Good to see you all.
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A
So good to see you.
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C
Yeah.
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H
Thank you.
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A
So glad you're here. Today we're gonna talk about this and dive into it. God's word is more accessible than ever, and hunger for it, believe it or not, is growing. And Benjamin is gonna share why he believes a Bible revival. How do you like that? Is here?
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B
I like it.
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A
With insights from his book, how to read and Study the Bible for Yourself. Okay, so what inspired you to write this little book? And how easy is it for people to get it, read it, and understand it, and go right into another level of understanding the Bible?
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H
Well, Joni, you're holding the very first pink version of this book as well.
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A
Pink version? The pink version is for me. It's fitting.
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H
It works well. I have three kids myself, and I recognize that they can like me. I'm a pastor's kid. They can be around things of faith.
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A
Yeah.
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H
But they. They are going to have to have their own journey with learning about God being transformed by the Bible. The Bible can feel unapproachable. People can be confused. They can lack confidence. I wanted to give some very practical tools for my own kids and then for churches, Christian schools, colleges, small groups to help people to be familiar and confident to read the Bible for themselves.
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A
Let's talk a little bit about how you came to know the Lord because you were raised at PK in Australia.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Close. Close to where your husband.
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E
Him and Josh grew up together.
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A
Lived. So he knew Josh's dad and of course, his mother, Glinda, who's still here. Glinder is what he calls her. That's what Australians is how they say the Rs are.
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E
They put Rs on everything.
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A
They put the Rs on the A's, then they don't say their Rs when they can, so they'll say mother instead of mother anyway. Okay, Ben. Ben is convinced that it will be the language of heaven, though.
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H
We all get this accent when we go to heaven.
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C
I'm glad.
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A
Well, I'm glad I'm gonna be Practicing with my son in law, Josh, cause I kid him all the time. Okay, so talk a little bit about your journey because just because you're born in it or you're around it doesn't mean you have a personal relationship with our creator.
- [05:23]
H
Well, as you said, raised with Josh. Love Josh and Rachel. These guys have been such dear friends for a long time. His D was pastoring a church in the same denomination as my dad in the same city. So we knew their family. My journey has been very much like it was a crucial time when I was a teenager, especially around the age of 17. I knew about God and I was ready to walk away from the church and I came to a fork in the road moment.
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A
Why, why were you, why were you even considering walking away? Were you just, were you pulled into what, like what the other kids were doing? That's a hard time. 16, 17 is difficult.
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H
I wish I, you know, it was some exciting story that I was out there partying every weekend and so forth. I was busy trying to get my school grades up. So it was less that. I think it was more my own doubts.
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A
Yeah.
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H
And my own. Okay, I get the fact that my parents believe this, but what do I believe? And I think, you know, my own.
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A
And there's not a lot. There's not a large Christian population in Australia.
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H
No, there's not.
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A
What percentage would you say?
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H
Oh, it's less than 10% attend church on Sundays.
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A
Wow.
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H
And so it's become a very secular nation. But I think I just had my own questions and doubts. And I'd seen it, but I needed to experience it. I'll give you an example. I could take a basketball card, say Michael Jordan. When I was a teenager. I could read about his shot percentage, his height, I could learn all the things about him. But unless I had met him myself, I knew about him. And that was my story. I had heard about God, but I needed to make my own decision. For me, reading the Bible became a core part of what my journey was to making my own decision.
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A
So tell me about the moment that that switched and you made the decision to surrender your heart to God. How did that happen?
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H
The Bible came alive to me. And the more I read it, the more something in my heart stirred.
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A
So did you go looking like, okay, if this is real, then you need to show me in the word of God?
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C
I did.
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A
Where did you start reading? Do you remember?
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H
I mean, all through. I'd print out my favorite verses. I would read them every day. And that combined with being a part of a Local church. It's like CS Lewis says when he talks about some people's journey of faith. It wasn't necessarily a moment in time, but when the sun rises through that, you see everything else. That's how it felt. It was like the rising of the sun in my spirit, where I'm like, God is real and this is the path that I'm choosing for my future. And, of course, it was the best decision I made.
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A
And how old were you when you made that decision?
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H
I was 17.
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C
You're 17? Yeah.
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E
What do you think is like, the biggest obstacle for young people reading the Bible?
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H
Well, we Bible readers are reading the Bible for an average of 3.5 minutes a day, and on social media, an average of six hours. But then when you look at Gen Z, that it skews. So you're talking eight or nine hours a day on social media.
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A
So scrolling on social media.
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E
Wow.
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A
Is an average of six hours a day. That is maybe reading the Bible three to five minutes.
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H
No, it's killing us, honestly. And again, for younger people, that might be eight, nine, ten hours a day. So we've become a generation where we're distracted. Even just reading in general. People are like, I don't read long form anymore. So the idea of reading the Bible, there can be this lack of confidence, a myth, like, do I need to be a Jewish scholar, a theologian? We need to come back to this understanding that the Bible is everyone's book. It's not meant to be confusing. It's written to everyone. But you've got to give yourself to it. And you do have to learn the framework and the tools of how to read it. So there is some learning involved.
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D
I love what you also say about it gives you your path. In other words, if you want to know your future, your destiny, God will give you the light to see that through. The word of God.
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H
Yeah. The little lamp, the motive here.
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A
Yes.
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H
It comes from Psalm 119. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. So that idea of lamp, my immediate steps, and a light to my path. The light is important because it's saying to us, if you want your little story of your life to make sense, you need to see the story of God. The Bible gives us the story of God of which we're not the main character. That's a very helpful and needed perspective.
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D
It is.
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A
You know, I was getting my nails done the other day, and the nail tech was a young man, and I asked him the question. Somehow it came up about Charlie Kirk. He was talking about it, and he was asking me about who he was, what he did. I was explaining. I said, has anybody ever talked to you about Jesus? And he said, no. That's amazing. And so the first thing I said to him, well, first I quoted John 3:16, explained to the plan of salvation and that this life is just a stepping stone to the life to come, and eternity's a long time. And Jesus paid the price for us to, you know, go to heaven. And so he prayed with me. But the next thing I said, I asked him, did he have a Bible? And he didn't. And so I've ordered him a Bible, which, you know, Vietnamese Bible. And he's excited about getting that. He said, I want to read it. What will happen if someone watching, maybe they have questions about what all we're talking about. Maybe they've really never sat down and read the Bible. Of course, it's good to get a version you can understand. New King James Version or the NIV or the Message Bible. I mean, people argue about all of that. This one man, one time in a revival service told me, I can't believe you look at the new King James. If the King James Version was good enough for Paul and Silas, good enough for me. And I'm like, paul and Silas did not have the King James. But why is it so important? And how can it change our life to sit down and read the word of God?
- [11:24]
H
When you read the Bible, the data is showing us, anxiety can halve, loneliness diminishes. Your sense of purpose in life increases. When they measure on the Harvard flourishing scale, almost every measure in a human's life goes up simply through reading it. Like, before you do anything else, just reading it.
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A
And that's because it's alive.
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H
It's living, active, and powerful. It's the word of God.
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A
It's breathing.
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H
That's the key, Joni, is that that the Bible is not like any other book. It's not dead. It's not just knowledge. You're reading something that when you read it, your spirit interacts with the Holy Spirit. That's a catalyst moment.
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A
I mean, you cannot even comprehend how powerful the word of God is and how it will change your life. What are some of the scriptures? Maybe we can each talk about this. Y' all get ready. I'm coming to you. What are some of the scriptures that have changed your life as far as the word of God is concerned?
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H
Yeah. There are so many. I love the 23rd Psalm, personally.
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A
Oh, my. Sorry to steal it, Dorothy.
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H
I'm Sorry, Dorothy. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. We live in a culture of want. Endless want, more endless desire. The idea that we can have a shepherd that satisfies the true wanting of our heart. It's just a beautiful psalm. I encourage people read and memorize Psalm 23.
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A
So good. So good. I'll start over here. April.
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B
I think one of my favorites is John 10:10. The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. But Jesus says, don't get me mixed up with him. I've come to give you life and life more abundantly. So I always measure my life. If it's stealing, killing, or destroying, that's not from God.
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A
Right?
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B
And if it's giving life, then that's from God. And it's just a scripture I live by.
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A
And that's what Jesus did.
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B
That's what he did, Anna.
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D
Oh, there's so many. I love the 91st Psalm. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Oh, I love that. One of my other favorites is in John, and it's, I have no greater joy than to know that my children walk in the light. I speak that every day over my siblings, over my grandchildren.
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A
Well, you know, some people call Psalms 91 God's 911.
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D
It is, right?
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A
It's definitely God's 911. You can remember that Psalms 91:1, Rachel.
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E
One that me and Josh love is Acts 1:8. And, you know, dad always just talked to us about, like, the power of the Holy Spirit. And that talks about, you'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And the Holy Spirit just being our guide for everyday life and helping us make decisions and giving us that still small voice on the inside helping us navigate this world.
- [14:09]
A
That's so good. I have to get mine because Dorothy or Cindy might steal it. Mine is in Proverbs, you said, if you want wisdom, read the book of Proverbs. When my husband got saved at 19, he came out of a crazy life. I mean, drug addiction, sexual addiction, pornography, everything. God dramatically saved him at 19. But the Lord told him, read the book of Proverbs. I think he read it, like six times. But anyway, in Proverbs, there's that great verse, trust in the Lord, 3, 5, and 6 with all your heart, right? Lean not into your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will direct your path. It starts with, trust in the Lord. I have to also say, when you're in a battle, just remember there's a scripture that Says, no weapon formed against you shall prosper when you have Jesus in your heart and life. And really, I mean, that is the most important thing you can do right now is just to invite Jesus in and just say, dear Jesus, I've tried everything else. I'll give you a try. Would you come into my heart, forgive me, be Lord of my life, and help me understand the word of God. I've heard that you died on the cross. I believe you did. You paid the price for my sin, and I receive you right now. It's just so simple to do that, do that in your heart, open your heart right now and give him an opportunity and get a Bible that you can understand and start to read it and watch things dramatically change in your life. Just like Ben was talking about. Depression, anxiety, thoughts of suicide, confusion, strife, anger, unforgiveness. All of that is in the word of God. And the Bible tells us exactly how to handle those situations. Like, there's one especially. It's kind of difficult because the Bible operates in a level that is not in this world. It operates in a spiritual level. And so when it says, love your enemies and do good to them that despitefully use you, bless those that curse you, you'll be like, what in the world? But those are principles that surpass human understanding and will change your life and give you peace in a way that you cannot even imagine. Okay, I'm done preaching, Dorothy. Oh, good, good.
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F
So good, so good. You know, another one of mine, since y' all all said so many good ones, that's the. That's the good thing about the Bible. They have so many good scriptures, Scriptures that you can just imprint in your heart, memorize, and they come real. They become real throughout your entire day because you need it. I know at work a lot of times, oh, my goodness, when things are so chaotic, you know, I just think about a scripture, and it just helps to soothe. But anyway. Galatians 2:20. I've been crucified with Christ, but I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
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A
Yes, that's a good one, Cindy.
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G
Mine is, and I believe it's in Philippians, but it says, be anxious for nothing. Those moments where we have anxiety, where our mind's going, trying to figure everything out, says, be anxious for nothing, but in everything. By prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God. And once we do that, then the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard our hearts and our minds through Christ Jesus.
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D
And what do most people have problems with their minds and with their hearts. And that's the antidote for that. Ben, I knew a woman, she and her husband had a foster home and they had anywhere from 10 to 20 children with them most of the time. And they were taking them to church and full gospel and all of these different places. And the kids that had problems with their grades, they said, read the Bible every day. And they assigned them the book of Proverbs. Read a chapter every day and your grades will go up. And they said, you mean we don't have to study harder? Read the Bible and watch your grades go up. And every single time that happened and you.
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A
I mean, that's data that is available to see what reading the word of God, even what it does to your brain.
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C
That's right.
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A
Right.
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D
That's what happened every area of life.
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H
So when you think about that, our mental health increases. How can that be the case? It says there's something special that happens in the human heart when we read Scripture. And therefore, I think it's a shame that we've neglected it culturally so much. We're doing all of these other things and the Bible is like, well, maybe there's some good quotes or inspirational tidbits or suggestions. It's like, hang on a second, that's not what the Bible is. The Bible needs to be re elevated to where it should be in our lives. The book above all books and the word of God to our lives.
- [19:04]
E
What are some practical ways for people to read the Bible and study it for themselves?
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H
Yeah. Well, I've got one key one for you, Rachel. This is the one that I tell everybody when you're watching, wanting to go deeper in Bible reading. We have a verse of the day culture. I love verse of the day. I've done verse of the day if you can.
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A
But the one you pick out from the little.
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H
Right, just the verse of the day. If we can add to that, and there's a theory behind this, but if you can add to that chapter of the week, that matters. Because to understand the Bible, you have to understand context. The same way that if you took one snippet from our conversation, we can take that snippet and mold it to mean anything. So we have to read longer form so that we can understand the original intent of that author and what they were trying to say, not just what we wanted to say. So think chapters, not verses.
- [19:58]
E
A chapter is actually not that long.
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C
It's not that long.
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H
It's a cheap.
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A
Well, some of them are. I've gotten some that have 42 verses. I'm like, is this ever going to end? And it's good. I mean, it's great. That's so good. We read a chapter every day, my husband and I. We pray together. And you're right in context. I remember I used to always quote that scripture. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. But if you go on to that, it says that those that walk, you know, those that don't walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit. In other words, there's no condemnation to those who are living their life by the Spirit. But you can just quote that and then leave the other part out. I know. I was just sitting here thinking about someone watching. And you actually know the Lord. You're saved. And a scripture that you need to remember is that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. How many times have y' all prayed that prayer? I mean, there's something in front of me and I'm like, there's no way. They're like, oh, yes, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. There's so many powerful scriptures in the Word of God. So who needs to get the book? Well, before we do that, since we're talking about the Bible, I'm going to give you an opportunity to get a Bible. So let's watch this. We'll be right back.
- [21:18]
I
Some books deserve to be held, cherished, remembered. This one is more than that. It's a place to meet God. The new Bible and Journal Bundle is designed to help you slow down, reflect and listen. Paired with a journal that gives you space for your prayers, your questions and your journey. Get yours today for just 29.99@Jonielam.com Bible or call now to order.
- [21:47]
A
And the other book you need to get is this one. How to Read and Study the Bible for Yourself. When youn get that Bible that We Mentioned. It's just a short book, but tell us exactly what's in here. What can people expect to learn from getting this book? It's a great gift, by the way. It is to grandchildren, to children.
- [22:08]
H
Yeah. Well, it's a part of a broader campaign called BibleRevival co. And we're inviting churches all around the world, Christian schools. We just had a Christian school order a thousand of these as a gift to all of their seniors, businesses. If you want to bring your staff in and help them engage in the scripture. And it's a 30 day campaign, a journey to help people engage in scripture for themselves. And so if you're a grandparent A parent. Buy one for your entire family. I feel like this is a great reading base right here. Buy the pink one right there is a black one as well. But particularly, I would say churches, these make great gifts for new Christians. Church visitors, yes, we can give them a Bible. I'm encouraging pastors, give them a practical guide as well as the Bible to know what to do to help them understand how to read it for themselves.
- [23:00]
A
You know, you've got the 30 day devotional in the back. Like here's day six. The passage is Galatians 6, 9. I love this. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Now, the laws of reciprocity are so true in the Bible in that when you do good, when you make decisions and do the right thing in the face of adversity, when you sow seed into someone or help someone or bless someone, it's gonna come back. Okay, so then you say in the process, you give the passage, then you give the process. Reflect on a time when perseverance and doing good challenged you. How many times you just say, I do not wanna bless them, I don't wanna. How does the promise of a future harvest motivate you to continue your efforts? And you give a prayer. Dear God, in moments of weariness and discouragement, remind me of the harvest that awaits faithful perseverance. Strengthen my resolve to do good, trusting in your timing and your promise. Help me to sow kindness and love without hesitation, knowing that you will bring forth growth in due season in Jesus name. Amen. So you're just kind of teaching, that's day six.
- [24:18]
H
Imagine if you got the book and you have all 30 days, how encouraging that is.
- [24:21]
A
But I just wanted to give people. And then the first part of it is where you're really teaching about how to ingest understand the Bible in a way that is relevant.
- [24:32]
H
Yeah, there's very practical tools and frameworks. And then also fundamentally I want people to help, to help them know how to relate to the Bible, what's their relationship with the word of God? So it helps people understand their approach and posture and. And then there's a whole range of different practical tools. Because if people only knew all the different ways that you can study the Bible. It's not just for Bible college students, it's not just for pastors. The Bible is everyone's book.
- [24:59]
A
How did this change for your children when they begin to read and understand the Bible? Like, what's the story where they Came.
- [25:05]
H
Said, dad, we have struggled to do house devotions with our kids. They just get distracted. It turns into chaos. And then we feel like bad parents and bad Christians.
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A
I remember my dad used to make us sit around and we'd be like.
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H
Oh, yeah, it's just like that. I just found doing this one thing, not me reading the Bible out loud. Getting your kids just to read the Bible out loud. So even if you don't have some great teaching that goes with it, just sitting and having your kids read the scripture. And then at 13, for each of my kids, I bought them a beautiful leather bound Bible. I took them on a trip, I wrote them a letter and I presented that Bible and said, this is the greatest gift. I mean, it gets, I get emotional thinking about this. This is the greatest gift I can give you as a father. Other words in this book.
- [25:50]
A
Well, and too, I wanted to mention that for children, there are so many Bibles out there with pictures. Now, Judah Bray Brown, right here, he.
- [25:59]
E
Loves him some Bibles.
- [26:00]
A
He loves to watch, to read the Bible, but he wants pictures.
- [26:03]
E
He knows the Bible so well that at his school, the kids ask the teacher, could Judah teach Bible?
- [26:09]
D
Oh, my goodness.
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E
So the teacher allowed him. They would always comment, man, this boy knows his Bible. He's only five years old too. So I'm proud of him.
- [26:19]
A
So good. Well, I want you to remember, God isn't far away. He's speaking to you right now through his word. I'm telling you. There's so many times I remember when I was probably like 17 or 18, I was having a tough time. Like you can have a tough time at 17, 18, but I thought the whole world was falling in. And I remember I went to the Bible and that scripture, come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. And Jesus was saying, hey, just give this to me. Okay, I've got it. You know I've got it. So he will guide you through every season of your life. And the word of God is crucial. And if you're watching today, you need prayer. That's why that prayer line number's on the screen. If you prayed and invited Jesus into your heart with me earlier, I want you to call because guess what? I'm going to send you the Book of John, which is one of the gospels, has a QR code at the end of every chapter. Dr. Jean Goetz, a wonderful theologian, will explain that chapter to you. And that's just our way of saying thank you. So if you prayed, invited Jesus in, let Us know, we don't need anything from you. We just want to be a blessing to you. Well, I do want to thank Benjamin for joining us today. Be sure you pick up a copy of his book, how to read and study the Bible for yourself. What a great thing for, like, Christian schools or Christian universities to give to the seniors. Or, you know, if you've got a senior graduating, like, let this be part of the gift along with a little check right in there. You know, you're gonna give them a little bit of money. And what a blessing that could be. The pink ones for the girls. And you got the black one, Ben, the black one for the guys. And for more information on this, you can Visit him at BibleRevival. Co. And as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes and exclusive content. And let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all major platforms. I want to thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you, ladies. Thank you, Ben. A Bible revival. The revival has already started. Like you mentioned, what's going on in college campuses around the world. God is touching the hearts of our young people, and the Bible is an intricate part of that. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you next time. Bye Bye for today. We know God can use anyone anywhere to change the world. And today's guests are here to show us that when we say yes to God, he can multiply our lives beyond anything we ever imagined. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is April Simons. How are you?
- [29:14]
B
I am doing great. And you know what? One yes can change everything for the better. It just takes a yes. An obedient heart, man. Everything can change.
- [29:22]
A
You know, I always think about your dad, John Osteen. I mean, one yes. And look at how he changed the world. Thank God. Anna Kendall, how are you?
- [29:31]
D
Delighted to be here. And I love Kingdom builders.
- [29:34]
A
Yes, you do.
- [29:35]
D
And I love this couple. Fred and I ministered in their church in Maui, went to their lovely home on the mountaintop.
- [29:41]
A
It was a delightful time. You just suffered for Jesus.
- [29:44]
D
Suffered for Jesus in Hawaii.
- [29:46]
A
I'm with it. Dorothy Newton. How are you?
- [29:49]
F
I'm just so excited. It's just been a great day.
- [29:53]
A
Has it been a great day so far?
- [29:54]
F
It has been a great, great day.
- [29:57]
E
Tell us why it's been a great day. No, I'm just kidding.
- [29:59]
F
It's a long story. But what I will say is that God's love show up in so many ways through people, and I am just so honored.
- [30:07]
A
It's so good.
- [30:08]
F
So thank you, Joni.
- [30:09]
A
Well, you are a blessing, Rach.
- [30:12]
E
You know, Dorothy is always. The joy of the Lord is her strength, and she always carries that joy everywhere she goes.
- [30:17]
A
That's amazing.
- [30:17]
E
That's the kind of person I want to be.
- [30:19]
A
I know. You are that kind of person. Cindy Johnson, how are you? Hello. I'm happy to be here today and happy to have this guest.
- [30:26]
G
I had the privilege of meeting them, actually, with you and Marcus in Hawaii. And what are they?
- [30:31]
A
Yes, they are. We're talking about our dear friends, Dr. James Morocco and his wife, Colleen. Welcome to the table. Amen.
- [30:38]
C
It's a joy for us to be here.
- [30:40]
A
It's always so good to have you.
- [30:41]
C
Like the one thorn amid all these roses. I'll tell you what.
- [30:46]
A
But such a voice of wisdom. That's right. I mean, I love to pick his brain. Whenever I'm with him, I ask a million questions. Well, from Hawaii to the nations, Dr. James and Colleen Morocco have seen God do the miraculous. And today, their testimony of revival and radical obedience will encourage you that nothing is impossible with God. Well, we wanted to take our audience back to the beginning of where you were born. Kind of your call in the ministry.
- [31:12]
C
Oh, my. I was born in Calcutta, India.
- [31:14]
A
Calcutta.
- [31:15]
E
I never knew that.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah, my parents were missionaries there.
- [31:18]
A
In fact, before the Buntanes.
- [31:20]
C
Well, the Buntanes took my dad's place. What happened is dad was there for two terms. He opened a Bengali church in Calcutta. That church is still going on today. And then he opened an English church, and that church is still going on today.
- [31:37]
A
And the Buntanes that came after Buntanes.
- [31:40]
C
Came and lived with us for a year, year and a half. And God spoke to dad and said, give it to the Buntanes. They'd come out just to be an evangelist for a few weeks, but they stayed. And God's heart was. You know, he got God's heart for the city. He'd weep a lot. Then dad had a call to the Philippines. He was in India for two terms, and then he went to the Philippines, pastored a church in Cebu City for a year, then became a traveling evangelist throughout the Philippines and then came back to the U.S. that's when we lived in Texas for that brief period of time. I went to Highland Park High School. And then he was called back to the Philippines. And at this time, he went back as the pastor of the church that Lester Sumrall started Bethel Temple, which at that time was one of the largest churches in the nation.
- [32:37]
A
And Lester Sumrall had had that great miracle.
- [32:40]
C
Yes. Well, what happened? Brother Sumrall was starting the church there.
- [32:45]
A
Mr. Sumrall was a great man of God.
- [32:47]
C
He was a great man of God. And he. They had Lee Din Erickson. They had a great revival there. And he was starting the church at that. Well, so he's driving in his car, and he hears this report about a woman who was in Bilibad prison who's being bitten. Literally, she would start screaming, and they would see bite marks on her hand, but there was nothing there, no one there. And the bite marks would come over in her body. And so they brought in physicians and doctors, and, I mean, it was scary because they. They were right there seeing this. So they're telling it on the radio, and the Holy Spirit says, I want you to go to that prison and command that demon to leave. So he fasted and prayed and asked if he could come, and they allowed him in, and he cast the demon out. Well, that thing literally shifted because it became the number one thing to talk about throughout the Philippines because all these.
- [33:47]
A
People had seen the evidence of something that was not explainable, where this woman was being bitten, and there was nothing there.
- [33:54]
C
And they even had. Under her, because she would fight this thing, and they had hair samples under her fingernails that were not human. I mean, it was a trip.
- [34:07]
A
And so when he went in, people were afraid.
- [34:10]
C
Oh, they were all.
- [34:12]
A
People were afraid, right.
- [34:13]
C
Oh, they're afraid when they're all in there, you know, I mean, you know, they're all watching.
- [34:17]
A
And so he goes in there, casts a demon out, and it's all over the news, and then a revival breaks out.
- [34:23]
C
Right, right.
- [34:24]
A
Does that sound familiar? God does, yes.
- [34:26]
D
And he wrote about it in a book.
- [34:28]
C
Yeah, Bitten by Devils is the name of the book. And he was a great man. He was a close friend of our family. In fact, he did my dad's funeral in Maui. Dad joined my staff in 1984.
- [34:42]
A
Well, you're jumping ahead. So you got. You were born in India, then your dad is going back to the country.
- [34:47]
C
Went to the Philippines, and he was there till 1980. In fact, what happened is.
- [34:52]
A
Where were you at in all this?
- [34:54]
C
Well, what happened? I went to college in California.
- [34:56]
A
Okay.
- [34:58]
C
And one of the most amazing stories is I worked myself across the Pacific.
- [35:03]
D
On a. I think this is a phenomenal story. Now, how old were you when you did this?
- [35:08]
C
I was 17 years old.
- [35:09]
D
And you were on cargo ships.
- [35:11]
C
I was on a cargo ship going.
- [35:13]
D
Can you imagine this, letting your 17.
- [35:16]
A
Year old do this?
- [35:17]
C
I know.
- [35:17]
E
Absolutely not.
- [35:18]
C
I got to tell you the story. It's. You want to hear it?
- [35:20]
D
Yes.
- [35:21]
C
It was one of the great moments in my life. What happened is that, you know, we were missionaries. We didn't have a lot of money for me to go to college or even get over to college. I had brothers that were in college in California and I was going to visit them. So I heard that you could go to the American Embassy and wait there. And if a sailor, American sailor, got left behind in one of the ports, if you went there, a ship's captain would come and hire you to take that guy's place. So I was waiting. I'd been waiting there for about two weeks. And it was a rainy day I'll never forget. And in Manila at that time, it flooded horribly and it was a rainy day. And all of a sudden this ship's captain comes in and he points to me, he says, you. And he pointed at another guy and said, you get to the pier. And it was just a real short time. Well, I got home. My parents weren't home. I'd already packed my bags because I believed I was going to go. Grabbed my stuff, and just as I was ready to go to the pier, dad showed up, jumped in the vehicle, he took me to the pier, and off I was gone. I didn't get to kiss Debbie goodbye. I didn't get to say bye to anybody. I'm on a ship.
- [36:31]
A
And Debbie's your sister?
- [36:32]
C
Debbie's my sister.
- [36:33]
A
And so you were born again at that point, though?
- [36:36]
C
Yes, I was. I came to the Lord real young. I got filled with the spirit when I was a senior in high school. So I not only was saved, but I was filled with the Holy Ghost at that time. So I got on board the ship and lo and behold, the ship's going to Vietnam. It was chartered by the American government to unload cargo. This is the height of the Vietnam War, 1967. And so we get into Vietnam, our first port. We were out in the harbor, and to get on land, you had to take a little boat to land. And I remember it was the first time I was able to get off the ship. So I went to port. There was an American base there. And I hitchhiked because I wanted to go to church. I think it was a Wednesday night or something, and it was pouring rain. I was sopping wet. I went to this chapel and the chaplain was preaching. I Don't remember what he preached. But I sat in the back of that church, sopping wet, cold, putting magazines in my shirt and I was there in church. It just was such a moment for me and I hitchhiked back. The only problem, when I hitchhiked back to the pier, there was sniper fire and the little boat that would take me back to the ship was not running. And so I, here I am all alone, 17 year old kid in the middle of a war zone. I didn't know where to go or what to do. I saw a shack and a table was there. I figured, well, if I get under the table, if somebody, if Viet Cong come in and they shoot, maybe I'll have my life be protected. And so I, I laid down under that thing, went to sleep and of course I got up the next morning and I'm still here and got on board the ship. But when I got aboard the ship, we went to Qu Nam, Vietnam and they were unloading cargo and I said, I started praying at the back of the ship. I'd stay there with my ukulele and I'd sing and I was praying. I said, God, I'd sure like to go back to Manila at least one time to say bye to everybody. And I began to pray that way. Well, I was what they call a messman. I served the officers their food. There was only one other Christian on board the ship. He worked in the engine room. And the ship was full of perverts. I mean, all they did, every port they went to was prostitutes. It was everything you could imagine. It was horrible. So I'm talking to these officers, I said, is there any possible way that this ship could get to Manila on its way back to the United States? They said, it's impossible. This ship is chartered by the American government. If it goes off charter at any time, the owners of the ship have to pay a lot of money to the American government. They're not going to do that. So anyways, I kept praying and lo and behold, something very strange happened. The ship had been in the harbor in Manila for two weeks getting on stuff. But for some reason they didn't get enough water on the ship. So when they came to Vietnam, they were low on water. And so I said, is there any possibility we'd get water in Manila? They said it's impossible. The barge is going to come. It will get filled up. Well, the barge didn't show up and they left port low on water. And so a day out of Vietnam come to find out they were headed for Manila. So, you know, I'm so excited. But every time I'd get excited, you know, there'd be some officer. It's impossible. The ship will never even be cleared by customs. We'll get out there. We'll be way out in the harbor, and the barge will come, fill us up. And we'll be gone in just a few hours because we're going off charter. Well, lo and behold, we land in Manila. Now, if you've ever been to Manila, there's a wall. It's a breakwater wall. We were so far out that we were way past that. And we got there late in the afternoon. And we're sitting there. The barge comes up, fills it up with water. So I'm praying, oh, Jesus, if we got this close, you got to let me off. And then all of a sudden, a little boat comes up and a guy gets off, comes up to gang plant. And they cleared the ship. It was a customs official working after hours. And there were a lot of ships in the harbor. They chose our ship, and they cleared our ship, which was incredible.
- [40:53]
A
Just a miracle.
- [40:55]
C
It was a miracle. So the captain says, well, you can have some time to go on shore if you want. Well, I had to work that night, but somebody took my place and I got on shore. I'm telling you what, it was great. And so I got in a taxi and I went home. Little did I know what was about to happen. What had happened was the church was planning a farewell party for me. But I hopped up and left before they had the farewell party. And there was a sailor, Frankie Lane was his name, who was going back to the United States. And he was in the military, and he was going back to the United States. The very night I came. And at the very time I came in, they were having a farewell party for him and an honorary farewell party for me at my house. I saw everybody. Everybody was shocked.
- [41:47]
A
You were just like, when Peter got out of the prison.
- [41:49]
C
That's right.
- [41:50]
A
And they were like, I don't know. It looks like Peter, but it couldn't be Peter.
- [41:55]
C
Anyway, so what happened? I said goodbye to everyone, you know, and I got back on board that ship. And it dawned on me. The goodness of God. It's one of the messages. I preach the goodness of God. I thought about this. Of all the times for the ship to not get water. They didn't get it in Vietnam. Of all the ports in the whole world they went to. They went to Manila. Out of all the times for the customs officials to work overtime and to touch one ship in that harbor. There were many ships they went to Arct. And they cleared the ship out of all the times to have a party. They had it the very night, at the very time at my house.
- [42:35]
A
And what lesson did that teach you at 17 that you would never forget, even today?
- [42:39]
C
The goodness of God and the power.
- [42:41]
A
Of prayers and the power of prayer. You're all about that.
- [42:44]
D
And the fact that he was 17, that's just what blows my mind.
- [42:48]
C
And he protected me with all these perverts. It was amazing, you know, because, you know, I've known of pastors, kids that have failed morally because they've gotten into situations. And God was so kind to me. And I even made some money to help me on college when I got there. And God, he's so good.
- [43:08]
A
That's amazing. Well, we're going to bring Colleen into the picture. Stay right there. We'll be right back.
- [43:14]
I
Some books deserve to be held, cherished, remembered. This one is more than that. It's a place to meet God. The new Bible and Journal bundle is designed to help you slow down, reflect, and listen, paired with a journal that gives you space for your prayers, your questions and your journey. Get yours today for just $29.99 at jonielam.com bible or call now to order.
- [43:44]
A
Well, an Incredible story with Dr. James Maraca. One of the things I said, you're so much about prayer as well, so the goodness of God, but the fact that you were praying at 17 and actually saw God answer those prayers in such a miraculous way. Now tell us about this beautiful. She had red hair when I met her. This beautiful redhead. Born and raised a redhead.
- [44:06]
C
I love the red hair. That's why she still has it.
- [44:09]
A
Hallelujah. She's like a strawberry blonde now.
- [44:14]
H
Out of a bottle.
- [44:15]
D
What can I say?
- [44:17]
C
Beautiful. It's ever worth. We've been married 54 years, and the greatest gift God gave me next to Jesus.
- [44:23]
A
So what happened? How'd you meet this girl?
- [44:25]
C
Met her in college, and we got married two days after I graduated. Dated for about.
- [44:30]
A
Wait, well, tell me what you thought about her. Like, how did you know? Like, hey, look at me. I want to date this girl.
- [44:37]
C
My problem was the same problem most men have. We're dumb. We're as dumb as all the. You know, I should have married her soon after I saw her, but it took me three and a half. Was it three and a half years?
- [44:50]
D
Oh, my.
- [44:50]
C
And we got married two days after I graduated. I know. That's what I said.
- [44:55]
A
So, Colleen, what did he do that was dumb. Tell us. He couldn't make up his mind. And why was that? You know, a lot of times preachers, kids are like that because the next pastor has a girl at the church that they. That they should meet. Gotta make sure you're marrying the will of God.
- [45:12]
C
I know. It's all of that. And you know, and you have a misconception of love. You know, you think love is just this better of the heart, and you're there. Is that this infatuation? That's very real. But I realized after a while, I said, you know, if that's love, then I'd die of a heart attack in a few days after you. And I realized, no, love is a commitment and a decision and an awareness that you're going to spend a lifetime with somebody. And the one thing that drew me deeply to her was not just her looks, but she had a capacity to love. And there's some people who just don't have that capacity, but she did.
- [45:55]
A
And the way that she would love people with you when you'd go on to pastor. So how did you get to Maui and suffer for Jesus all those years in Hawaii?
- [46:03]
C
Well, what happened is I went to usc. I did a master's degree in ancient history on my way to a PhD because I wanted to be a professor on the college campus. And witness from the inside of the campus. Well, so what happened is I got there, finished the masters, and then God speaks to me and says, I didn't call you to be a professor. I called you to be a pastor. So that's when I went to Fuller Theological Seminary, did another master's and a doctorate there. And in the course of that time, I became a youth pastor at a church in Wilmington, California, with a man by the name of Roy Sapp. You may have known him.
- [46:35]
A
Oh, yeah. Great man of God.
- [46:36]
C
Great man. And we worked together for five years there. And then he was called to be the pastor of first assembly of God in Honolulu. And he asked if I would go with him and make a decision as to whether we would go together. And at the time, I was in Hong Kong during the summer of 1976. I was there because my brother pastored and he was taking a trip to the mainland with a singing group. And so was. My dad was with him. So I pastored both in Philippines and in Hong Kong. And while I was in Hong Kong, he called and I said, okay, I'll change my ticket. I'll come to Honolulu, check it out. Went to Honolulu and I was in Waikiki. On a veranda. And the Lord spoke to me, said, I'm going to build a great church in this city. I want you to be a part of it.
- [47:30]
A
And it did become a great church.
- [47:32]
C
It did. What happened? I went back to California. Pastor Sapp asked me, what did God say to you? I told him it was exactly what God said to him. We resigned. The church went to Honolulu, and that was 1976. Jamie was only a year and a half, and we were there four years. And in 1979, God spoke to me, said, I want you to lead your own church. And my dad calls me from the Philippines and says, listen, I'm thinking that God has a time for us to leave, and I would like you to take our place. Well, it's the largest church in the nation at the time. And we prayed. We honestly sought God and prayed. And God said, no. I thought, oh, well, that's strange. I said, dad, I'm sorry. And then out of the blue, I get a call from a church in Huntington beach. And I ministered in Huntington beach, on the streets there. And I thought, wow. I didn't think anybody even knew my name. They called and asked if I would consider being their pastor. They flew me over. I was working on my doctorate anyway, so I had to go over. And so I preached for her. And in the middle of my morning service, I'm preaching, and God speaks to me and says, don't let them vote on you, because normally they vote on the past. So right after I finished, I went to the board members, said, don't vote on me. So I said, try other people out. And then if you still want me, call me. Well, about three weeks later, to make a long story short, I got a call from a little church on Maui who had lost their pastor. And it was a church that was about 80 adults and 20 kids. And I didn't want to go there on a Sunday morning because I didn't know if it was God's will, because God was using me in Honolulu. And the church there had now become the largest church in the state. And so I went on a Sunday night, and there were 30 people there in church on Sunday night, which was a huge crowd because normally there was only 12. I preached Collen, and I saw the island of Maui. We'd never been there before. And minding my own business, when next Sunday, I get a call from one of the board members, and he says, congratulations. I said, congratulations on what? He said, we just elected you to be our new pastor. I said, I don't know if I want to be your pastor. So I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll fast and pray for a week week. And I'll come next Sunday morning, let you know whether I'll be your pastor. Well, during that week, as I was fasting prayer, God gave me a vision of a massive church on Maui that would touch the world. And at that time, all I could see in the natural was a tiny little word. But in the spirit, I saw something different. So when I went there, I knew that God had given me a vision. But I knew if I had a vision but the people didn't have it, I'd waste my time. And I didn't need a good job. I had a good job. So I did something I'd never heard anybody do. At the end of the service, I gave everybody a ballot. I preached on vision, gave everybody a ballot and said, look, if you embrace this vision, right? Yes. If you don't, say no. And I remember counting the ballots, it was overwhelmingly yes. So I knew the people had caught the vision. Then I went to the board because they controlled the money. And there wasn't any. There was the entire income of the church now, I want you to see was 50,000 a year. That means 4,000amonth. They couldn't even pay my salary and that. And out of that you had to pay the pastor, all the missionaries, all the upkeep of the church. I mean, it was, I thought. So I realized I didn't go there for the salary. I went there because of the vision, but I needed to test them. And they didn't have money to pay me, but I tested them because I knew we'd grow quickly. So I said, you know what? I need a full time secretary. There was no church on Maui that had a full time secretary. Largest church on the island other than Catholic churches was 200 people. And so I said, I need a full time secretariat. It was real quiet, just like it is right now. Finally one guy pops up and says, pastor, whatever you want to do, that's what we're going to do.
- [51:51]
D
Wow.
- [51:52]
C
And they voted to hire me a full time secretary. And I knew that they were willing to take the step of faith financially that I could come. And I came. It took me about two months to get there. I had the church outside repainted, had a new sign put up, and I prayed and said, God, double the church the first Sunday and God doubled it. And within a year and a half, we'd grown from 100 to 1,000 we became the fastest growing church in America.
- [52:17]
A
And we came in 1983 at that.
- [52:20]
C
You were in the skating rink.
- [52:21]
A
The skating rink.
- [52:22]
C
We came into that skating rink. Yeah. We came into that skating rink in 82. And God just did stuff. Amazing. 83. You went to Molokai.
- [52:32]
A
Yeah.
- [52:33]
C
You know how that happened? I'm just minding my own business. And God spoke to me. He said, just as the mayor is the mayor of three islands, I want you to pastor three islands. Molokai, Lanai, Maui. I just came there to pastor Maui. I didn't.
- [52:46]
A
And Molokai had a leper colony there.
- [52:48]
C
Yes.
- [52:48]
A
Where we prayed for them.
- [52:50]
D
Yeah.
- [52:50]
C
And there was only 5,000, 6,000 people that lived there. And I remember saying, God, I pastor one of the largest churches in the state. And I obeyed him. I went to Molokai, and it was a tiny little work. I said, God, I'm embarrassed. This is horrible. And God spoke to me, said, son, he said, this is the church you would have had if I hadn't given you Mount. I said, oh, thank you, Jesus. But today we have three congregations on Molokai. God's given me that island, and God's given me the state of Hawaii. We have churches, 50 congregations, throughout the state. And we're all. It's just amazing.
- [53:32]
A
Y' all love all these stories.
- [53:34]
C
Love it.
- [53:34]
A
I mean, these are stories that will so encourage some of you that are watching right now that you've been believing God for something. The thing that always stands out to me, Pastor Morocco, is just that persistence. I mean, he does not take no for an answer. When God says to do something, he's gonna keep on and on and on. And God is never early.
- [53:56]
C
He's never early.
- [53:57]
A
He is always on time. He's an on time God.
- [53:59]
H
He is.
- [54:00]
A
Well, we are out of time today. But I want you to remember this. No matter what God is asking of you, obedience is always the best way. His plans are good. And when you say, yes, he can use your life for his glory in ways that you never imagined. And what I love about is, Dr. Marocco is talking. Is that how he was able to listen to the voice of God? Didn't you love that? Yeah. And so you say, well, I don't have that. Well, God wants to have that with you. But, you know, the first step into having a relationship with God is praying a prayer and just accepting Jesus into your heart and asking him to forgive you of your sins. And it's so easy to do. Just say, jesus, forgive me. You know, come into my heart today. I don't really understand these crazy people that are sitting around the table, but whatever is working for them, I'm willing to give it a chance.
- [54:51]
D
Amen.
- [54:52]
A
And I want to tell you it's a prayer that will change your life. And I talk about my grandfather all the time who didn't know God or didn't know about prayer, didn't know about church, didn't have parents because his mother died giving birth to him and his dad committed suicide. And he's 19 years old and he just knelt down at the water fountain at the tool and die mill in Greenville, South Carolina, and said, God, if you're there, I need you. And God met him and changed the trajectory of our family. He wants to do that for you as well. There's a number on your screen. We have prayer partners that are standing by ready to pray with you right now. And it's our honor to do that. If you did pray that prayer, we want to send you the Gospel of John. It's a great place to start in the Bible, and we'll send that to you absolutely free. There are QR codes on each chapter where Dr. Jean Goetz explains every chapter to you. So that's our gift to you. Call today if you need prayer or if you prayed that prayer. I do want to thank Dr. James and Colleen for joining us. To learn more about their ministry, visit kingscentral.net I know you don't know how many but about how many churches around the world do you have now?
- [55:54]
C
Well, our hope is by the end of this year we'll have 1200. 1200 ministering to 100. So I don't know where we are. My daughter today is in Madagascar. We don't know what's going to happen there. We're in Cuba. We're in a lot of different nations of the world, about 26. So I don't know.
- [56:10]
A
That's amazing.
- [56:11]
C
I keep asking and I can't find out.
- [56:14]
A
I think you have more than 1200. But will you come back and talk about some of the other topics that God has given you for you?
- [56:20]
C
Yeah, how I got to Dallas. Now that's quite a story.
- [56:22]
H
I know that is.
- [56:23]
A
I want to hear that story, too. Well, as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. Thank you so much for watching thank you, ladies. Thank you, Moroccos. We love you. Have loved you for 40 years. I was only 10 when I met you. 40 years. But we love you guys. So proud of you. He's gonna be an apostle till he goes home to be with Jesus. Very apostolic. If you want to understand what that office looks like, that's Dr. Maracco. Hey, we'll see you next time. Continue to call. We love you.
- [57:02]
C
Bye. Bye for today.
- [57:04]
A
This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.