JONI TABLE TALK | JULY 26TH, 2026

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Joni Table Talk | July 26, 2026

Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Rachel Lamb Brown & Panel
Guests: Lorenzo & Molly Sewell; Robert Stearns
Date: July 26, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode of Joni Table Talk explores themes of hope, restoration, and the redemptive power of faith through authentic, personal testimonies and a biblical lens. Centered on stories of overcoming adversity, the conversation highlights how surrender to God leads to transformation, reconciliation, and unexpected provision. The panel also delves into the biblical story of Nehemiah, drawing lessons about perseverance, leadership, and the importance of building and rebuilding amidst difficulty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Testimony: Lorenzo & Molly Sewell – From Brokenness to Restoration

[02:35 – 27:46]

• Molly’s Background & Spiritual Journey

  • Adopted from South Korea into a Jewish-Irish-American home ([04:25])
  • Struggled with identity as a child of mixed heritage and adoption ([04:35])
  • Came to faith via a VHS sermon at 16—motivated by a desire for assurance rather than relationship ([06:25])
  • "Let me at least just recite the prayer and just get it done." — Molly ([06:26])

• Lorenzo’s Story

  • Became a pastor at 21, but was hurt and disillusioned by church experiences ([07:25])
  • Drifting from faith, but sense of spiritual calling persisted ([08:03])
  • "People would walk up to me like, there's something... You shouldn't be here type of thing." — Lorenzo ([08:05])

• Their Relationship & Transformation

  • Lorenzo prayed that he’d marry the next woman he'd meet ([09:08])
  • "That is dangerous. That was not my prayer." — Molly ([09:17])
  • Early relationship involved drinking, living together, and distance from church ([08:37], [10:13])

• Turning Point: Surrender and Reconciliation

  • Spiritual conviction led Lorenzo to propose and formalize their marriage ([11:54])
  • Molly’s hesitancy rooted in desiring a genuine, one-time commitment ([12:24])
  • Struggled financially after committing to full-time ministry, facing eviction and loss ([16:41])
  • Restoration with Molly’s estranged father happened providentially the same day they needed a home ([19:23])
  • "Not realizing God's like, actually, the relationship that you need to restore is with me. And I will do the rest." — Molly ([20:15])

• Impact on Family

  • Molly’s father, initially disapproving and estranged, reconnected and eventually accepted Christ ([21:17], [24:03])
  • Powerful moment during a church communion service where Molly led her father in a salvation prayer ([24:03])
  • "Repeat this prayer after me." — Molly to her dad ([24:03])
  • Gradual change in family dynamics, with her father supporting their ministry before he passed away ([25:16], [26:40])

• Encouragement for the Audience

  • Never give up on loved ones; transformation can take years but perseverance in faith can yield change ([24:34])
  • The process of forgiveness, acceptance, and unconditional love is highlighted in the journey with Molly’s father ([25:36])

2. Spiritual Encouragement & Prayer Invitation

[27:46 – 29:01]

• Universal Message
  • Audience encouraged that no matter their past, God’s grace is available
  • "Doesn't matter what we've done, where we've been... He's always calling us home." — Rachel ([27:36])
  • Broadcast closes with a prayer for salvation led by Lorenzo ([27:56])
  • "I believe you're married to the backslider. I'm coming home, Jesus." — Lorenzo ([28:11])

3. Leadership, Adversity & Lessons from Nehemiah (w/ Robert Stearns)

[34:02 – 61:54]

• Building & Rebuilding through Adversity

  • God uses broken situations to refine, rebuild, and grow character ([35:10])
  • Biblical refining compared to gold being purified under fire ([35:13])

• Overview of Nehemiah’s Story

  • Nehemiah’s response to Jerusalem’s ruin: weeping, prayer, fasting, then action ([39:39])
    • "He says, I wept, I mourned, I fasted, and I prayed... Something in Nehemiah's character looked at this tragedy and said, I've got to get involved." — Robert Stearns ([39:39])
  • Leadership lessons: Obtaining permission, acting with integrity, persevering on a long, dangerous journey ([41:52], [42:30])
  • Maintaining faith amidst resistance—the halfway point is often the hardest ([58:15])

• Facing Opposition and Operating in Excellence

  • Encouragement to act in integrity and service even in difficult contexts ([41:59])
  • "If we would preach less and live more... Nehemiah had that favor because he simply lived his life by his value system." — Robert Stearns ([41:59])
  • Discussion on the dangers of agreeing with negative reports, echo chambers, and the critical role of speaking life rather than negativity ([49:17])

• Practical Encouragement

  • Audience reminded not to give up amid adversity: "On the other side of your mess is your message" ([43:43])
  • Memorize and declare scriptures to self-encourage and change one’s atmosphere ([45:26])
  • The value of Sabbath and stepping back for perspective ([59:16])

• Identity and Surrender

  • Reflection on God changing names and revealing true purpose through journey ([55:19])
  • "If you will go, you will not only find God, you'll find yourself." — Robert Stearns ([56:17])
  • Call to full commitment: “You can't give him 80%,…you have to give all of it to God." — Molly ([56:52])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If you're going through hell, keep going. Don't stop, don't pull back. You're going through it.” — Robert Stearns ([44:58])
• “Your job is this: Do not give up.” — Robert Stearns ([44:58])
• "Part of the reason the Bible rings true is that it’s the opposite [of social media perfection]. It shows the imperfection of the heroes.” — Robert Stearns ([37:17])
• "We grow more in the valley than we do on the mountaintops…I know that doesn’t preach well, but it’s the truth.” — Rachel ([35:18])
• "God isn't overwhelmed by your past pain. In fact, he's in the business of taking our brokenness and using it to build something good." — Rachel ([60:42])

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Important Timestamps

• [02:35] — Molly’s adoption story and spiritual beginnings
• [07:25] — Lorenzo’s ministry hurt and estrangement from church
• [09:08] — The night Lorenzo & Molly met and early relationship challenge
• [11:54] — The conviction leading to Lorenzo’s proposal
• [16:16 – 20:15] — Eviction, Molly’s prayer for restoration, and providential reconnection with her father
• [24:03] — Leading Molly’s father in a salvation prayer
• [28:00] — Audience prayer for salvation with Lorenzo
• [34:02] — Reflections on adversity and spiritual growth from the panel
• [39:39 & 41:59] — Robert Stearns on Nehemiah: leadership, perseverance, and favor
• [44:58] — Encouragement not to give up during adversity
• [49:17] — Dangers of negative agreement & the power of our words
• [55:19] — Identity, calling, and surrender (Abram to Abraham)
• [58:15] — Perseverance through the “halfway point” of trials
• [60:42] — Closing encouragement and prayer offer

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Notable Takeaways

• Personal testimonies: Real-life stories of faith and family transformation spark hope for restoration regardless of one’s past.
• Biblical insight: The story of Nehemiah illustrates that adversity is a refining process; true victory comes by confronting brokenness with faith and perseverance.
• Encouragement for listeners: Don’t give up on prayers for loved ones; surrender fully to God; and speak life in the face of opposition.
• Practical application: Persevere through the difficult middle of the journey, maintain integrity, and embrace both divine timing and the necessity of spiritual (and literal) rebuilding.

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a powerful message: God specializes in restoring brokenness. Whether rebuilding family relationships, overcoming personal failure, or tackling daunting callings, the key is surrender, persistence, and faith in God’s redemptive plan. Listeners are left with practical encouragement and tangible hope—reminded that their storms and valleys are where growth and destiny are forged.

Transcript

[Molly Sewell]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing. It makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world. How about something about a comedic tone? We have a winner.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

What God started in my Life he's

[Jack Armstrong]

going to finish the Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. What was meant for my harm? Lord, I want to thank you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right now, you're turning to my advantage. Your daily source of hope and encouragement.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Your second wind is on its way.

[Jack Armstrong]

God is about to breathe on your life in a new way. Listen to the Joel Osteen Daily podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your favorite podcast, this episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. At Navy Federal, they want you to know that if you need a positive sign towards achieving your goal of home ownership, this is it. Because even though today's housing market may seem discouraging, the Homebuyer's Choice loan offers members down payment options as low as 0% with no required private mortgage insurance. Look for your sign today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA Equal Housing Lender. Terms and conditions apply. Loans subject to approval and eligibility requirements. Learn more@navy federal.org Zerodown brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. What's up baby? It's Bretzky. And I'm here to tell you that spinquest.com is giving out free Sweets coins. All you gotta do is purchase a ten dollar coin pack. And guess what? They're gonna give you the coins from a thirty dollar coin pack that lets you play all your favorite games like Blackjack, Wanted Dead or Wild. And we're talking real cash prizes, baby. Spin Quest.com Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spin quest.com for more details.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Well, have you ever felt like life was spinning out of control? And maybe you've even wondered, does God really see me? Well, today's guests are living proof that he does. And they're here to show us how God can use every challenge in our life to shape it. Into a story of hope and restoration. God can do that. Before we get to that, join me around the table is someone that God did it for. April Simon.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Right.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Amen to that. I'm so. It's just such an honor and joy to serve God because he picks us right where we are, turns our life around. Thank God for that. And just, you know, just uses us despite what we've gone through. It's just amazing. Dorothy Newton, how are you doing? I am doing really good. I always ask you about grandchildren. Oh, my goodness. I was with them this past weekend all day. We took family pictures. They're just. You know what? They're just kids. Perfect. Yes. Yeah. Rachel Ann Brown gave me two perfect grandchildren, two little boys. Welcome to the table.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Thank you.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I'm excited about our guests today and our story. Myrtle. Hey. Always good to have you, bestie. Thank you. I love being back. Today was wonderful. The worship, oh, my goodness. Was so refreshing. So good. So good. And we're so happy to have Lorenzo and his lovely wife Molly Sewell at the table.

[Molly Sewell]

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You're welcome. Guys, Lorenzo's been with us, but guess what? He brought Molly this time. You're going to hear her story. It's amazing. You know, life doesn't always go as expected. It's full of ups and downs, highs and lows. But can God really use it all for our good? Lorenzo and Molly Sewell are here to encourage us that when we fully surrender, God can do anything. So, Molly, you talk about being adopted, and there were a lot of things that went along with that. Just, you know, your identity and who you are, and you look different than everybody else. Talk a little bit about that, and then we'll go to when you met Lorenzo Sewell. Yeah.

[Molly Sewell]

So adopted out of South Korea. So I'm 100% South Korean. I'm 50% Irish and 50% Jewish.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah.

[Molly Sewell]

I thought it was interesting to open with that because a lot of people in adoptions, they don't really think about, well, what's the nationality of your adopted child? You normally adopt them into your culture, into your way of life, and have them form into that and being able to actually say, you know what? I'm South Korean. I have to be proud of that. I have to be proud of my heritage and the culture that I've come from, because it's created me who I actually am. So my adoptive mom was Jewish when she adopted us. My dad is of Irish descent. He's also adopted, and his mom is also adopted.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow.

[Molly Sewell]

And so when my mom decided to take my brother and I, because I'm adopted with my blood sibling, he's a year older than I am. And so she decided, you know what? I got to get you guys into church. So here we are, we're in a Lutheran church, and she dedicates my brother and I, and she gives her life to Christ during that time. So now she's a messianic Jewish. My dad, he would come for Christmas every Easter, every once in a while. But that's really where my family structure kind of set. So we weren't super religious. I didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus. I looked at a priest as you're here kind of thing. Like, all right, well, what am I giving my dollar to? Like, you're telling me I'm a bad person. I don't know what else to do. You're not telling me how to get out of it. And so that was my relationship with Christ moving forward after that. It wasn't that I had a crazy experience within the church itself. It was actually through an online preacher who was giving a salvation message of this is a golden ticket, and this is how you get to heaven. And so through words only. I did it more of a selfish thing of, all right, God, if heaven's actually real, if hell is actually real, I want to go to the better place.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah.

[Molly Sewell]

Let me at least just recite the prayer and just get it done.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So you actually prayed with somebody you were watching?

[Molly Sewell]

That's it.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow. How old were you at that point?

[Molly Sewell]

16.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You're 16?

[Molly Sewell]

16 years old. I'm in the basement of my mom's house. My parents had already divorced at that time, and I'm watching a vhs. So for all the viewers that know vhs.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Ok.

[Molly Sewell]

I may be dating myself, but a vhs? And it didn't have any label on it. It was a blank one. So you knew it was either like a good TV movie or series that was recorded, so I popped. It was a sermon, and that's actually how I gave my heart to Christ. Truly. Just saying, I'm doing this just more out of a, I just need to get into heaven. Not really a relationship again.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah, but it was the seed that was planted.

[Molly Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And you were sincere. You know, the Bible talks about, Lorenzo, that if you don't go on with discipleship and the word of God and fellowship, that that seed's gonna wither away. Right? Yeah.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

We have to work out our own salvation with fear, with trembling. Right. When we receive the seed of the word, the enemy Comes immediately to try to steal the word. And that's what happened with me. Right. Got hurt in the church backslid. And the day before I met Molly, I prayed.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Even though you're not really serving the Lord.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Not really. I had already pastored. I pastored my first church when I was 21, had already preached, and I was hurting the church and. And hurt my pastor, and I ran from God.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You were hurt by the church, hurt by pastor. So you kind of just went back into your own, back to the world.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

And it was interesting. While in the world, people would walk up to me like, there's something like, I don't know, you don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're there.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Like, you don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

You shouldn't be here type of thing.

[Molly Sewell]

Right.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Different. And the night that Molly and I

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

met, literally your dad was with you.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

He was. He was present with me and he was my wingman. Can you imagine that?

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Okay. So your dad was there with you and actually said to you, Molly, he's

[Molly Sewell]

like, you're kind of cute. My son doesn't do this type of thing. He's really shy. I think you guys, he's like, I think you guys would be good for each other.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Oh, that is so funny. And so you got with him.

[Molly Sewell]

Got with him. It was a couple hours.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Went to a bar.

[Molly Sewell]

Went to a bar. Throwing back some shots. Now, listen, we were not saved. I was not walking with the Lord at that time. I had given my heart to Christ saying I just need to be. And haven't had no clue what this actual relationship really looks like.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

How old were you at that point when you met Lorenzo?

[Molly Sewell]

23.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

About 23, yeah. Okay, so, Lorenzo, what are you doing in a bar doing shots?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

What in the world is pastor, right? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, I was already. I had a pastor and I preached my first sermon the whole night you

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

were medicating your hurt.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

There it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Totally.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

I was medicating my hurt. But the day before, I prayed and I said, God, the next woman I meet, this was my prayer. Lord, the next woman I meet, I'm going to marry.

[Molly Sewell]

Ooh, that is dangerous. That was not my prayer. I had just gotten out of a five year relationship. I was like, I'm free, I'm single, I got my own place, I work downtown. Let's do this. And then I literally bumped into you. And from that day, we literally have not been separated. A week later, after I met him, he was down on one knee asking me to marry him. With a little paper ring, like, would make these beautiful little like, cheesy, right? But I kept them all. Cause it's like. It's a symbolic, like, little thing. And I just looked at him, I said, listen. I said, we're having fun. Let's just get to know each other. I said, I don't even know how to pronounce your last name. So absolutely not. We're not doing this thing right now.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So you were. There was a part of you that knew that if you continued in the relationship, you wanted to do it the right way. So you proposed.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So you waited, like, that's crazy. How many years?

[Molly Sewell]

So we ended up waiting a year and a half to get married.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So y' all are just kind of fornicating and drinking?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yes.

[Molly Sewell]

We're living a simple life, doing all

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

the things and doing all the things. But, Lorenzo, what are you thinking about as far as, you know, what's right and wrong?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And, you know, that's the thing about it. Like, people who are doing this, like, people right now, even some of you watching, there's a call of God on your life, and you're out doing things you know you shouldn't do. And there's coming a point that God's going to say, okay, it's time to choose.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And so, I mean, he'll let you string out for a while, but there will come a day of reckoning where you have to make a decision.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Or you set yourself in a situation where the enemy can destroy you.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Is that right?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yes. And we were at that point. But the Holy Spirit, he's so kind. The Bible talks about the patience and the forbearance of God in the book of Romans.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And he knows a broken and wounded heart.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So he takes into account the things of you being adopted, some of the things you went through personally, the brokenness in your heart and your spirit.

[Molly Sewell]

So he.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You know, that's why we can't judge people. Right?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Amen.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Because we can't judge somebody else's heart. Exactly. Okay, so. But there came a day, really, where God was like, okay, it's time to make a decision.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

So I'm going to tell you the day for me, but I want you to share what happened with you. So for me, the Lord orchestrated it. He used ministry. He really used an opportunity to preach and to minister. And then he used a pastor who was from Nigeria. He used him to. He brought him and that church family in my life to help me remember what it meant to love God and to serve God.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

To live right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I mean, that's like, oh, absolutely. So important. So tell me your moment when you turned and like, I can't do this anymore.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yeah. I was kneeling down, praying to speak at a conference, and the Lord was like, I mean, you're living with somebody. That means not your wife.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You're asking him for a sermon, and he's like, seriously, get your first soul.

[Molly Sewell]

Right?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

And it was that day that I proposed, officially got a ring, and we went down to the courthouse, and that was the day we decided.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

But did you see something different, Molly and him, that day?

[Molly Sewell]

Um. You know, there was a lot of things that had to change before I said yes. So for me, it's not like I'm gonna have a ring today, I divorce you, and then I'm gonna find another man tomorrow. It's a one and done for me. Right. Like, I knew enough about scripture to be like, okay. Like, when I'm meeting my husband, I'm leaving my family to form another family here. So that, to me, was very important. Although I may not have known, like, scripturally where it was. I just knew.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And y' all had children at this point?

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah, had kids. And he had. He was begging me. He said, molly, before Isabella is born, please, we need to do this the right way. Please honor me. And I looked at him and I said, I'd rather call you my baby daddy than an ex or a divorcee. I'm not gonna do that.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Was there something about the relationship that made you unsure?

[Molly Sewell]

A lot of things. Just the way that we were living our lives. We were living in our heart.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Because you had seen the fruit of really, the change from that prayer.

[Molly Sewell]

No, of him.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

But you began to see a difference.

[Molly Sewell]

I did. So after Isabella was born, we decided, okay, you know what? We really need to be in ministry. Like, Molly, you've gone to church, so you kind of know what it's about. You don't know what my ministry is about, but I'm going to start introducing you slowly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Molly Sewell]

And it was something that we just prayed over. We ended up getting invited to a prayer meeting on a Saturday in Westland, Michigan.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Are you married at this point?

[Molly Sewell]

We were not married at this point.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

No, it was West Bloomfield. We were married in West Bloomfield.

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah, well, we were married. Yeah.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Maybe. Maybe it had been maybe six months. Yeah, it was six months. It wasn't long.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah.

[Molly Sewell]

So we find ourselves in this ministry in West Bloomfield. This pastor is straight out of Africa, super thick accent, but he's praying the house down. Like, you can just tell the thickness of the spirit is on Him. I didn't know it at that time, but really looking back, you just knew

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

the presence of God was there.

[Molly Sewell]

The presence of God was thick. During that same time, I had lost communication with my father. He did not approve of the relationship that I was in with my husband. The fact that I had moved so far away. He was just like, at this point, I'm basically disowning you from the family. I will never talk to you again. These kids are not my grandchildren type of deal.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow.

[Molly Sewell]

So here I am. Broken heart, right? I'm like, you know what? Let's go to prayer. Let's just do it. You know what? If God is real, I'm just going to give it all to him. So that day, we're. We find ourselves in this prayer meeting. He's like, anybody who has a special prayer request, just come up. Just come up. I'm like, all right, dude, here I go. So I walk up, and there's a line of people. And now listen. Like, I'm really unchurched in this. The Lutheran Church does not do that. It doesn't. You sit, you're quiet. You keep your head down. You're not talking back to a pastor. You're not saying amen and preach it, brother. Like, you're not doing that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right?

[Molly Sewell]

So this was completely different for me. So I find myself sitting, standing there, and he's like, just close your eyes and just petition it to the Lord. Ask him what you want. So here I am, closing my eyes, and I'm specifically praying for a relationship with my dad. Lifting my hands, doing the whole thing. Anything that this pastor is telling me to do, I'm like, all right, obviously, you know the Lord. Let me get a little trickle of it, right?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah.

[Molly Sewell]

So I'm closing my eyes, I'm praying this prayer, and I feel like this egg gets dropped on my head, and I feel this heavy, warm sensation just trickle down my body.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

And.

[Molly Sewell]

And I feel this immense amount of pressure on my head. I open my eyes thinking that it's the pastor, like, trying to, like, shove me down, right? No one is around me. Not one person. And I was like, all right, God, I've given it to you. I don't know what this is. This is. It just freaked me out. I remember I told.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was like, this is weird.

[Molly Sewell]

Like, what happened? Somebody touched me. And he's like, no, no one's around you. He's like, you're feeling the Holy Spirit. That's what it is.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's when the presence of God.

[Molly Sewell]

Yes.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Do you know how many people I've interviewed over the last 40 years, believe it or not, where they actually talk about at the top of their head, they felt this warmth. Warmth. Liquid, kind of, you know. And so that was your surrender moment.

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

But you really meant it.

[Molly Sewell]

I did. I was surrendering it for my father from my relationship, that broken relationship that I had.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And what happened?

[Molly Sewell]

So fast forward, we find ourselves saying we are going to be fully committed to ministry. Like, that prayer meeting just changed something in our relationship.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

We're gonna live, right?

[Molly Sewell]

Exactly. We're selling ourselves out to Christ at this point. So we were in real estate. We were doing very well for ourselves. I had found myself in another serving position where I was making three, four hundred dollars a month.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And Lorenzo not doing well at anything. I believe he could talk. Eskimo and divine and rescue.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, I can.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So you really need this?

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah. So we find ourselves just saying, you know what, Lord? We're gonna surrender everything to you. We're not even sure what this looks like. We have a little bit in savings. We have two babies under three years old at this point. Okay, what are we doing? So a month goes by savings, start dropping an eviction notice comes up on our door. Hey, guys, can't be here anymore. So I'm like, dude, we have kids. Like, we're doing ministry. I was like, what does that look like, Lorenzo? I was like, you're the leader of our house spiritually. What's God saying to you? During that time? He had said, I am praying and I'm going to fast, and I'm going to specifically pray for leaders in our city. When God tells me to pack up, that's when you're packing up. Do not touch one thing in this place. And I was like, this place is huge. We have a lot of kids. Like, we have so many things going on. I said, I'm gonna need a significant amount of time to pack. He says, don't pack one thing until God releases us to do it. He walks down the stairs, he's like, it's time I go to U Haul. I'm like, calling all these people now. At this point, we have like $100 to our name. Like, there's nothing now. Like, we've completely depleted savings. And I remember us being at a storage unit. It was one of those storage units where it was like a dollar for the first month and then you gotta pay for the second. Whatever. So here we are. We have our things, and I'm about to sign a piece of paper and I get a phone Call. And it's my dad. I haven't talked to him in a year and a half.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

But you do pray?

[Molly Sewell]

I did pray. And it's all in God's timing, right? So, of course I'm like, all right, well, great. Thanks, dad, for calling me on, like, the worst day of my life. And he's like, listen, I have a doctor's appointment in West Bloomfield. I want to know if you're still at the same place. I want to come by and see you and the kids. And I said, actually, we're in the middle of moving. I don't really know where we're going. I gotta let you go. So I hang up the phone. So I'm like, this sucks. Like, okay, now I'm just basically. And I had also prayed a prayer. God help us serve you all the days of our life, even if that means living out of the trunk of our car. So I find myself literally walking in answered prayers, but cursing God at the same time. Like, seriously, like, out of all the prayers that you could have listened to and moved on my behalf, these are the ones like, okay, Jesus, you got a great sense of humor, Lord.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Thank you.

[Molly Sewell]

So we're standing there, my phone rings again. It's my dad. And he says, listen. He says, you know Betsy? So that was his girlfriend at the time. He says, betsy and I, we just bought a new home. We've been trying to get renters for her house. We don't like anybody that we've been interviewing. The house is fully renovated. It's clean. Move here. We'll figure out the details later.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow, that's amazing. Same day, same day.

[Molly Sewell]

Same day, same day. My dad at the time does not know the Lord. He's not in ministry. He hates my husband. That's the reason why we ended up not talking. There were so many things, but the way that God orchestrated it. So through that prayer, through complete surrender. Right. And asking God, restore this relationship. I desperately need this relationship. Not realizing God's like, actually, the relationship that you need to restore is with me.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow.

[Molly Sewell]

And I will do the rest.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Tell us about some of the conversations you had where you saw that turn take place. Because I know when he began to talk to you and see your heart, see your spirit, had to make a difference.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Well, yeah. He was born in a context where people that look like me, he didn't necessarily believe the best about them. And then he saw what God was doing in our lives. Grandchildren, yes. Grandbabies.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Pretty grandchildren. They really have a way. I think we have a picture whole Family show that.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

So. So, yeah, having grandbabies, that helped. And then I believe also him understanding that I never anticipated our lives to be this way. I remember our youngest, Naomi, who's 14 now. When she was born, I called him and I apologized. And the reason why I apologized because I never wanted him to feel like I was putting more of a burden on him. And I believe those moments. And then the moment when he gave his heart to Christ. You want to tell the story about when he gave his heart to Christ.

[Molly Sewell]

So I think it's a power of inviting somebody to church. You know, when you think about family members that you truly love, that you truly have a deep relationship with, but you don't offer Christ and salvation to them, it's a disservice. You can't really truly love anybody. And so I remember this was when we had Naomi. Naomi was about six months. This is our youngest daughter, who's now 14. We were serving at a church in Sterling Heights at that time. And what I loved about the church was that they had this beautiful atrium where they had a large screen. You could do coffee and donuts, essentially, and still be a part of service, but not in the sanctuary. And so every Sunday, be like, all right, dad, you know the drill. I'm gonna be here. This is the address. This is the service time. Come. Just, if anything, hang out with me and the kids. Like, we're out in the atrium, right? So for the umpteenth time, I invited him thinking about, don't give up on these people. Come on.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That you're inviting a church. Don't give up on them.

[Molly Sewell]

So don't give up, right? So here I am. I invite him, sitting in the atrium, and it happens to be communion Sunday. Okay? So we're sitting there, Communion's being passed out, and Pastor Randy is talking about what the wafer symbolizes, what the juice symbolizes, right? Like, how important this is. And I hear behind me, this is all they give to you for lunch around here. I'm like, I can't even claim him right now. Like, I don't know who that guy is.

[Jack Armstrong]

Is that him?

[Molly Sewell]

So I bring my dad around, and my dad's like, well, this is really weird. Like, what is this? Like, he's never seen a communion cup before, you know? So, like, you think about us like, okay, this is a normal thing. Like, this is. Okay.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

We take it for granted.

[Molly Sewell]

Almost exactly. Exactly. It's a privilege. So Pastor Randy's up there, and he's talking about it. And I said, dad, really just Give me the communion cup. I'm thankful that you're here at church, but really, you're gonna do a lot more damage to yourself by taking something that you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. I said, please don't do that to yourself. He's like, well, I wanna take it. He's like, well, what do I have to do? And I'm like, are you serious? So my dad's a very dry, sarcastic type of guy. And I said, okay, well, first of all, you gotta believe in Jesus. I said, do you even believe in Jesus? He's like, yeah. I said, so you actually believe that he actually walked this earth at one point, that he's a part of history, right? And he says, yeah. I said, so you believe that he was actually the son of God? And he's like, I can get behind that. I said, okay. So then, like, I'm like, grabbing the Bible, and I'm like, okay. So I'm like, trying to flip to Romans real quick. And I'm like, so did you believe that he actually, like, died, like, on a cross and just trying to, like, really bring it down? Just very element. He's like, yeah. He's like, I believe all these things, man. Like. Like, I'm here in church.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Like, yeah, I believe the third day

[Molly Sewell]

and go through the whole thing. And I said, all right, well, repeat this prayer after me.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow.

[Molly Sewell]

He prays the prayer, we take it now. There's worship. So, like, we're worshiping and I'm just sobbing, and he's looking at me. He's like, it was that bad, Molly. I'm like, this is such a solid moment. Just be quiet. I said, just be quiet and just listen to the worship. And it was just in that moment, right? So anytime that you think, okay, this person's just not listening to me anymore, they've completely. They're disregarding me. They don't even read my text messages anymore. Don't give up.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yes.

[Molly Sewell]

Do not give up.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And was there a change that took place when he prayed that prayer?

[Molly Sewell]

So, you know, my dad is a type of person where he's not going to be in Bible studies. He's not going to do all these things. But he was very inquisitive about all the ministry things that we were doing. He's like, so what do you guys do? Exactly. So it was more of before. Hey, I'm really glad that you guys are out there.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

We're.

[Molly Sewell]

All of a sudden, he wanted to

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

be a part of it.

[Molly Sewell]

And then he was like, you Know what? This is interesting. This is interesting. We're. That you guys are doing. So he would come and visit our churches as we were planting churches. He would come through. He'd be the only white guy there, but he would come through and he'd be like, just stand there. He didn't know the words, but he was like, everybody's so friendly. He's like, I really like your church.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And the sanctification process for some takes time. It takes time. But over time, you could probably see the fruit right in her dad.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely. I mean, even some of the comments he would make about race, you could see his heart was changed.

[Molly Sewell]

I'm curious, though, because we heard how he came to be in relationship with

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

you, but how did you overcome, like,

[Molly Sewell]

the years of hurt, of feeling rejected? And I think a lot of it

[Lorenzo Sewell]

is when you're in love, you don't care what you have to do. So because I wanted to be with her, I didn't really even look at what he was doing. I just knew that whatever I had to do to win him over, I'd be willing to do. And once he confessed Christ as his savior, it was like, wow. Now the relationship becomes, you're not just my father in law, you're my brother.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow. And he really honored and respected what you were doing.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

But you did, at some point, have to forgive and let that go.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, when we first met, I mean, they had a crazy dog.

[Molly Sewell]

We do still have a crazy dog.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

And that dog, when that dog came after me, I said, okay, here's my decision. I love this woman. I'm going to be with her. And I think a part of that was also understanding I was going to accept him and love him regardless of whatever, whatever. And he was very supportive. You know, he's gone home to be with the Lord, actually, a couple weeks before, President Trump came to our church.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow. But he got to see so much fruit.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

In your life and in your ministry, April, is that not incredible? It's amazing. And I go way back to how you outlasted the enemy because you were hurt by a pastor. He thought he took you out, you became a pastor. Look at the impact that you're making. And, you know, God can use anybody, but we can't let the enemy win.

[Molly Sewell]

You know, I love a great testimony. This is a great testimony.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Praise God. Yes. It really is. And Rachel, you know, for people watching and they think there are people watching that you once serve the Lord and you can understand because you're not really. And God is Just calling you back. I mean, he's saying, you know, come home. Come to this place of knowing that there's no better place in the universe than being in the will of God. I love that the Lord doesn't give

[Molly Sewell]

up on any of us. Doesn't matter what we've done, where we've

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

been, who we've been with. He's always calling us home. And all we have to do is accept that invitation and come back in relationship with him and he can use us greatly. And Yalls story is a testament to that. Amen.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

So good.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So good. Did you. Would you just pray a simple prayer with people watching right now?

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And just. We'll pray after you and give them an opportunity. Just like she did with her dad.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yeah. If you're watching right now and you would say, pastor, the story resonates, right? You listen to Molly's story. Know that's for God's glory. Why don't you repeat after me? Say, Jesus, come into my life. Come into my life and save me.

[Molly Sewell]

And save me, Lord.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Forgive me, Lord. Forgive me you for everything that I've done. I believe you're married to the backslider. I'm coming home, Jesus. I'm coming home today. I believe that you died for me and that you rose again. Be my Lord and be my savior. Be my savior in Jesus name. Amen.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Amen. Amen. Amen. Is that a big amen to you? Oh, amen. Steps of the righteous are ordered by God. And your lives brought your dad to know the Lord Jesus Christ. So what? A. And so the church in Detroit, tell everybody where it is.

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

180 Church. It's in Detroit, Michigan. You can check. It's in the hood.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

In the hood.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

It's in the hood. Hood.

[Jack Armstrong]

Say of the hood.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So if you get lost, just say, I need to find the hood. Hood.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, yes, yes. And we will direct you to our church. Literally.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's awesome. That's awesome. We love you guys and thank you for being here and thank you for sharing Molly. Such a great story. We're out of time, but I want you to remember, no matter how hopeless life may feel, God hasn't forgotten you. He can redeem your past. He can restore your family, and he can turn your greatest struggles into a powerful testimony of his faithfulness. If you're watching today and you need prayer, call the number on your screen. We have the most amazing prayer partners who are standing by, ready to pray with you. If you prayed that prayer with Pastor Lorenzo, call us. We'd love to send you the Book of John. It's a great place to start in the Word of God. That's just our gift to you absolutely free because we love you. I'm so excited that you prayed that prayer. Some of you. I'm so excited that you came back home. We've been waiting for you. He's been waiting for you. And God's going to do some great things in the days ahead. Well, I do want to thank Lorenzo and Molly for joining us. To know more about their ministry, visit at 180 Church CC. As always, make sure to follow us on all social media. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes and exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from all of you. Of course you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast available now on all the major platforms. But thank you so much for watching. We love you. You know, it's never too late. It's just like Rachel said. Doesn't matter what you've done, doesn't matter where you've been, doesn't matter how many mistakes. Jesus is always there saying come unto me all ye that labor and heavy laden and I will give you rest and peace. Receive Jesus today. We'll see you next time. Bye bye for today.

[Molly Sewell]

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[Rachel Lamb Brown]

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[Molly Sewell]

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[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Fortunately though, Mint Story is better. Every plan $15 a month, even unlimited.

[Molly Sewell]

That's it. Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a try at Mint mobile.com

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

switch upfront payment $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for

[Jack Armstrong]

a 12 month plan.

[Molly Sewell]

Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees, extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy see

[Jack Armstrong]

terms the headlines they move on. But the heartache and the terror they do not. Iran and its terrorist proxies are continuing to target Israel. Hezbollah continues its attacks in the north, forcing families to live under constant threat. But Israel is not only defending her people, she is standing on the front lines against terror that threatens us all. Even when the news crews leave the international fellowship of Christians and Jews, they remain. Every day they are on the ground providing life saving aid. Now near Israel's border with Lebanon, a Hezbollah drone recently struck the home of Yelena. Widowed earlier this year and living alone, she was trapped inside by the blast. Thankfully, she was not injured, but she remained displaced. It's hard these days, she says, but I don't want to leave. Well, as Christians, we are called to stand with God's people and pray for those defending Israel and protecting the freedoms we hold dear. I want you to join the international fellowship of Christians and Jews in praying for the peace of Jerusalem and for the soldiers, families and civilians carrying the burden of this fight right now. Visit prayifcj.org that's pray IFCJ. Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world. How about something about a comedic tone? We have a winner.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong, Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait.

[Molly Sewell]

Lady Luck Ritzky.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

I got you.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I've had so much luck on spinquest.com they have all of my favorite games, slot games, live, blackjack craps, and bubble craps. You can even get a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Jack Armstrong]

10 bucks for 30. I'm heading it over to spinquest.com right now. Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So what would you say if I told you that God is in the business of taking broken things and somehow using them for our good? Well, today's guest is here to share why God is calling us to be builders and repairers in a damaged world. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is April Simon. Do you believe in building and repairing? I do. And I love that God takes broken things and the scripture says he heals the brokenhearted, so even heals the broken people. And I love that. Dorothy Newton, how are you? I am doing so good. You always have a bright, beautiful color on. Can I just say thank you? You know, nothing is wasted. That's why I love you so much. Because no matter what it is, no matter what you're going through, nothing is wasted. Sometimes it's hard to believe that when you're in the middle. Oh, absolutely. But as you look back, even over your life, so many things, all of us really have gone through. You can look back and see that God was with you and he brought you through it every step of the way. You have to just go through. You have to go through it. You have to go through it with Jesus. I'm holding on here. Rachel Lamb Brown. How are you? I'm good. You know, we grow more in the valley than we do in the mountaintops. I know that doesn't preach well, but it's the truth.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

It's that refining fire, Rebecca Lamb Weiss, isn't it?

[Molly Sewell]

It is that refining fire. But through the refining fire, you come out pure as gold.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's right.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Yep.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's where we grow. Even though we like being on the mountaintop, it's more fun up there. We can see more, can breathe good. But it's in the valley where we grow and mature and character's built.

[Molly Sewell]

And there's an intimacy with Jesus that you have in the valley that's really precious. If you just embrace him in the valley.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's good. Cindy Murdoch. How are you? I'm good. I had so many thoughts going through as each one was speaking. You know, like the gold, when it's being. It's in the heat. Then all this stuff that shouldn't be comes to the top. The impurities. Yes, the impurities. And it can be skimmed off. And I just thank God that through the valley, through the times we go through of just where all the impurities and things that don't need to be in our life, God can skim that off. But that only comes when there's a lot of heat. A lot of heat. And we do not like the pressure or the heat. No, we don't, Lord.

[Molly Sewell]

Skim the impurities off the top.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Well, that scripture that says, you know, in the New Testament, think it not strange, this fiery trial. So anyway, well, he is the founder of the Eagles Wings Organization and the Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem. And he's here to discuss his new book, Rise and Overcoming Adversity. Please welcome Robert Stearns. Hello.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Hello.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Hello.

[Jack Armstrong]

How are you?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Welcome. Good to be here. We were all just preaching a little bit.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

There you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, Fantastic.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I can't wait to get into this. Well, you know, there are probably some walls in your life. Are there walls in your life? Do they provide protection or do they imprison you? Robert is here to talk about the moments that test our walls and what they can reveal to us now. Rise and Rebuild. A Guide to Overcoming Adversity. It really is a complete study and story of Nehemiah, which is like one of my favorite Bible characters. I loved his perseverance. You have to say that he was great at that, not giving up.

[Jack Armstrong]

First of all, you know, we all, obviously, we love Jesus. He's the central figure in all of our lives. But when you have the opportunity to dive deep into some of these incredible biblical stories, right? Esther, Gideon, Nehemiah, all of these stories, you begin to see their humanity, and you begin to see their struggle, and you begin to see their victory when they persevered in what God called them to. And I love that. That in a day and age where social media wants us to look perfect all the time, social media wants us to always present our best face, and we're in this world that wants to manufacture perfection. But part of the reason the Bible rings true is that it's the opposite. It shows the imperfection of the heroes. It shows the brokenness, it shows the difficulty, it shows the challenges. And so the story of Nehemiah is just like that. It's a very real moment. And he was confronted with a decision. He was in a comfortable position. He was the cupbearer to the king. And he gets this message. He gets. In fact, one of his brothers comes to visit. His brother Hanani comes to visit, and they've been gone from Jerusalem now for decades. And Nehemiah says, what's going on with the hometown? What's going on with the family? What's going on with the city? And, you know, the difference is that for Nehemiah and for the Jewish people, when you ask about the hometown, it's linked to the promises of God, because God had given specific promises about that land and about that people. And Hanani gives this really overwhelming negative report. He says, the walls are broken down. There's been huge fire in the city. We're in disgrace. It's terrible. And this is the thing. If I could just. If I get one thing across, this is, to me, the verse that shifts everything. Nehemiah gets that message, and it says this. He says, I wept, I mourned, I fasted, and I prayed. And here's my point. God, how many times have I gotten a message and I would have said, oh, I'm so sorry to hear that.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, that's a shame. Oh, I'm sorry that didn't work out. And we give superficial responses when God is actually inviting us to partner with him and change history. Something in Nehemiah's character looked at this tragedy and said, I've got to get involved. And that's what God offers each and every one of Us every day.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And he happened to be in a position that he could ask and God could give favor. That's right. Which was really a supernatural thing because. Tell us the rest of the story because you started it. But we'll get into the adversity. But we're all just sitting there waiting on what Nehemiah's gonna do.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, he's in that position. Right. Which I think is so powerful because, listen, a lot of us are concerned about our nation and about, you know, there's. We're coming into a political season and there's just all kinds of vying left and right and a lot of fear being spread on both sides, a lot of anger being spread on both sides. But Nehemiah, even though he's in the midst of a political cl, he just lives his life with excellence. He lives his life with excellence, with a heart to serve. And he was just there in a place that didn't believe like he believed, but said, I'm gonna just demonstrate my values. And I think sometimes if we would preach less and live more. St. Francis said this. He said, preach the gospel always, but only use words when it's necessary. And so Nehemiah had that favor because he simply lived his life by his value system. So he went to the king and said, hey, can I have your blessing? Can I have your permission? And the king gives him permission and blessing to undertake this epic journey. And he goes back and it becomes really necessary. Cause later in the story I'll jump ahead, but we'll come back. But later in the story, he's accused of not having the permission of the king. He's accused of being a rabble rouser. He's accused of being an opportunist. But he had gotten letters from the king that verified that he had the blessing. So there's something about doing the right thing in whatever circumstance you find yourself and knowing that God will bless that eventually.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Well, and I love the part where you talk about. Because of the way Nehemiah had conducted his life before the king.

[Molly Sewell]

Yes.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

When he needed favor, it was there because the king knew he was authentic. Did he have any idea of what he was undertaking at the moment that he asked for that permission?

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, we can read between the lines in Scripture, right? And we see. Because it really does become this epic journey of. Think of this. I mean, he's not getting on an El flight or United flight and hopping over to the Holy Land. I mean, it was a 900 mile journey.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

900 miles from the citadel of Susa. Back to Jerusalem. 900 miles on a camel or a donkey with bears. Lions, lions, tigers and bears. Oh, my right. With thieves. And so he was saying goodbye, potentially to his life, but certainly to his comfort. And I think something that each one of us have to realize is if we are going to truly inherit and step into our destiny, it's going to be inconvenient, it's going to be challenging, there's a price to pay, there's a battle to be fought. It's worth it in the end. But he had to persevere through a lot of things, including these characters, Sanballat and Tobiah, who show up, speak to

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

people, and then I'm going to let the ladies ask some questions, but speak to people right now, if you would directly. That God has his hand upon them. And they don't even really realize that it's God and. But has put something in their heart. But there is adversity, there is trouble on this thing. They're wondering, how in the world can I achieve this that's in my heart. Would you just encourage them?

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, it might sound like a cliche, but it really is true that on the other side of your mess is your message. On the other side of your test is your testimony. And I want to promise you, no matter how much you look at people who seem successful, who seem to have it all together, there is. There is no one who, if God gave them a pen and said, here, you can rewrite some things in your life, they would love to rewrite this chapter. They'd love to rewrite this paragraph. Each and every one of us have places of pain, places of brokenness, places of difficulty. God is not ashamed of those places. God wants to fill those places with love, with hope, with purpose, with destiny. Your job is this. Do not give up. Winston Churchill said this. He said, if you're going through hell, keep going. Don't stop, don't pull back. You're going through it. You just begin to declare, I am going to come through this. I'm gonna get through to the other side. You're not watching this program by accident. You didn't tune in today by accident. God has ordered your steps that you're gonna hear this today. In the midst of whatever you're facing, God has something good on the other side of this.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You know, sometimes you have to be your own cheerleader because you don't have the people around you cheering you on. And there's a saying that says, get comfortable being uncomfortable.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And, you know, just because we Feel discouraged doesn't mean we're defeated. Just because we feel down and out, like God's not there, doesn't mean God's not there. And, you know, I just love Nehemiah's spiritual fortitude. He just kept going. And we can learn so much from that. Just keep going. You can't look to the right or left. You got to stay laser focused and just keep going.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I think that's why it's so important to have two or three or four key scriptures, key things that you've got in your heart. You know, you've got to speak to your own soul. You've got to speak to yourself and say, what are you doing, self? You know, get up. And you've got to have a few things that you use as a tool.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yep, your arsenal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Your arsenal. To change the atmosphere around you, it becomes so necessary. The Bible talks about. About the power of our words. And one of the key truths of the Bible is what out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Life and death are in the power of the tongue. And now, you know, psychology is talking about neuro linguistic programming and the importance of our speech and what we hear. Why? Because our words have power.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's right.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so get ahold, whatever you're going through, you know, get 2, 3, 4, 5 key verses, memorize them and just speak them, declare them. That becomes a powerful tool for us.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So Nehemiah rebuilt the wall, and there's some walls in our life that we need to rebuild, but there's some that we need to tear down. Can you talk about that?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, absolutely right. And that's the question of discernment. You know what? This relationship right now, I can love this person, but I don't need to have them all up in my stuff right now. I need to draw a healthy boundary. I need to draw a healthy line. And so there are those places in our life where. And it's all about the spirit that we do that in. If we do that with a judgmental spirit, if we do that with a bitter spirit, the scripture says bitterness becomes a negative root that pollutes many. So there's that balance of discernment that I think only comes from the presence of God. That's why I'm such an advocate for worship and for prayer. There's no substitute for just saying, God, I'm here. What am I not seeing God? What am I not hearing God? And that starts with humility. That's right. Like Nehemiah's getting the blessing to the king. Was a sign of humility. You know, Nehemiah could have just disappeared in the middle of the night. He could have just taken off and gone. Right. There's other ways. And we've all seen spiritual people. Well, the Holy Spirit told me, and off they go into some rebellious phase.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

He also understood about submission.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Right.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And you talk about that in the book.

[Jack Armstrong]

God is a God of order. From the first thing that we see in Genesis, what's God doing? He's setting. There's chaos. Chaos is over the deep, and God's spirit hovers and God brings forth order. And one of the key challenges that I think we have right now, not only in the church, but in society, is there is an absolute breakdown everywhere we look. But God wants to bring order. We're not talking about control. And we've had a lot of examples of unhealthy.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're not talking about tyranny. We're not talking about manipulation, the opposite of those things. But Ten Commandments, Honor your father and mother that it may go well with you. This is the first command with a promise. What's God doing in that? He's saying. He's saying that the kingdom of God, and I would argue good human life moves from a place of honor.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

That's true.

[Jack Armstrong]

I meet someone, they could be completely opposite from me, completely opposed to my value system. But you know what? That person's created in the image of God. The image of God is in that person and my beginning place before I begin with disagreement, my beginning place has to be I honor the. I honor the image of God.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Well, and that's what Nehemiah did to his authority, which was the king, and he got his permission. He did it the right way, and he submitted to whatever that answer was going to be, which was, of course, yes, go. But you say in chapter six, decide to never be one who comes into agreement with an evil report which would strengthen the work of the enemy. And it's so important, like you said, that we don't do that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And I mean, the whole chapter is about the web of attack. Winston Churchill said one ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Meaning we weren't created to run away from it. We were created to face it.

[Jack Armstrong]

We should never be fear based. Yeah, we should never be fear based. We can ask God for wisdom, we can ask God for timing. But we should never operate out of fear. And that quote that you just said earlier, that's where Sanballat and Tobiah are in there. Sanballat is the. The antagonist. Right. He's there. He's the enemy in the story. He's speaking death, destruction. He was trying to hold onto his own position because he was the governor in the area. And Tobiah comes alongside of Sand. Ballad I talked about the Marvel movies. You know, every villain that you have in a movie always has this little sidekick.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's true.

[Jack Armstrong]

And the sidekick of the villain does nothing except agree with the villain.

[Lorenzo Sewell]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

But that's the power of agreement. Agreement doesn't only work in the kingdom of God. Right. Strongholds begin when we unwisely start opening our mouth and flapping, where we have got no business giving a negative report. If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all. And that's where we. And I'm praying that for our nation right now. I'm praying for our nation that we will no longer be manipulated by extremists on all sides, but that we would come into the place of saying, you know what? The image of God is in every human being. And we're going to speak kindness, we're going to speak life, we're going to speak respect, and start from that place of conversation.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Good. You talk about subculture and counterculture.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Where should the church be in all this?

[Jack Armstrong]

And the way I define those, I hope they're the correct way to define them. But subcultures are when we become our own echo chambers and we just live within our own little ecosystem, and we're all just amening ourselves. But are we really making a difference outside the walls of that subculture? In this case, the church, for example, I think what we see in Nehemiah, what we see in Daniel, what we see in Queen Esther, what we see in many, many heroes of the Bible, is that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, they were able to maintain their identity even in the midst of culture. They excelled to the top, but they were true to who they were. And so that needs to be our I personally. That's what it means to be a counterculture. I can live and function in the midst of culture, but I'm not gonna lose who I am. I'm not gonna lose who God's called me to be. And so my encouragement to all of us is not just man. Have a conversation with somebody you don't agree with.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Exactly.

[Jack Armstrong]

Take them to coffee. Somebody who Help me understand where you're coming from. And all I want from you is that you're gonna try to understand where I'm coming from. Get into that kind of conversation so that your light shines outside of your own four walls.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's good. That's good. Well, I want you to stay right there. We're gonna be right back with Robert Stearns in Just.

[Jack Armstrong]

Imagine facing a storm so vast it threatens to engulf everything you've built. Would you falter or would you find strength you never knew you had?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

When a hurricane is tearing through your life, Jesus is the peace that steals the waters of your soul.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is a story, a journey of faith, sacrifice and victory witnessed by millions. It's a tale of navigating life's fiercest and discovering that sometimes the most profound truths are born in the heart of the storm.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Pain and disappointment don't have to define you. And if you'll cling to God, he will use your storm to propel you into a new future.

[Jack Armstrong]

Get your copy [e-mail] shop.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Well, can God restore the broken places in your life? Bishop Robert Stearns is here to share how God wants to rebuild your walls of hope even in the face of adversity. And, you know, for people watching that may not have a personal relationship with the God that we're talking about. How important is that in all of this discussion?

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen, I encourage folks, wherever you're at in your spiritual journey, pray a simple prayer. God, if you're there, make yourself real to me. You know, that's all the room God needs. God doesn't need you to have your theology all figured out. God doesn't need you to have all of your steps. He needs you to create space for him. And so wherever you're at in your spiritual walk, just create room for God by saying, God, if you're there, here I am. Speak to me. Lead me, help me. And that space begins to create room for God to operate in your life.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's good, Cindy. So good. You know, I'd like for you to share with us the story of Abram, who became Abraham. The real meaning in that scripture when God was telling him to go.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I love it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Well, we talk about that in Nehemiah, right? Because Nehemiah is going. And you look at all these heroes of Scripture, right? Jonah, he has to go to Nineveh. Nehemiah has to go back to Jerusalem. Abraham had to go to the land. There is something in scripture about go. The words of Jesus, go into all the world. There's. Our faith is not static. Our faith is not just supposed to be in some building somewhere. We're supposed to be going.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

We don't always know where we're going. We just start going one direction. God says, go here.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's right. We got good Bible for that. So God says to Abram, he's not yet Abraham. So what is that right there? That's identity. God's changing his identity from Abram to Abraham. God changes Jacob's identity from Jacob to Israel. God does this throughout Scripture.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I changed Saul's identity to Paul.

[Jack Armstrong]

Peter, right, Simon to Peter. So God says to Abraham, lechecha, get up and go. Now we in our English translation, we know that as go to the land that I'm gonna show you. It's not actually what it says in Hebrew. Lechecha, that whole phrase in Hebrew actually means go to yourself, and then to the land that I will show you. Go to yourself and the land I will show you. What is God saying to Abram and to us? If you will journey on holy pilgrimage with me, if you'll journey on purpose, if you'll journey on destiny, I'm gonna reveal to you who you really are, not who your past has made you to be, not who negative words have made you to be, not who your scars have made you to be. If you will go, you will not only find God, you'll find yourself.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And that really is to total surrender. Oh, my goodness. And so if you. You know, I was just thinking while you were saying that, the prayer that I prayed when I was just young, 19 year old, I mean, that was my surrender prayer. God, I'll go where you want me to go. I'll be what you want me to be, and I'll do what you want me to do. Not having any idea what that encompassed, but it's almost like a computer that's not connected to the Internet. When we don't pray that prayer to God because he knows what he's designed for us to do far better than we do. And it's so much more than we can imagine, isn't it?

[Molly Sewell]

Yeah. And you have to give it 100% to the Lord. You can't give him 80%, you can't give him 90%. You have to give all of it to God. And you know, I love the story of Nehemiah because there's speaking to the great destiny that God has for Israel

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

and how important it was for Jerusalem

[Molly Sewell]

to be restored, for the walls to be restored. All of the prophetic destiny in that and the restoration of Israel. And then there's the personal application that the broken things in our lives, God can rebuild again and that we don't have to be discouraged. And when God is rebuilding you, you also might have to fight. Because I think about how Nehemiah, they never gave up. They persisted. But there was, you know, an attack,

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

there was a threat.

[Molly Sewell]

And so Nehemiah had to tell his workers, have a weapon in one hand and have your tool in another. And so for people who are watching, you know, how would you advise them

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

not to get discouraged when God is

[Molly Sewell]

rebuilding them, when they do experience pushback from the enemy?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's so good.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's really. It has really become real to me that when there is attack, when there is stress, when there is anxiety, I can look at that and I can say this. You know what? I must be doing something right. I must be doing something right because, you know, you just feel when things are all going bad. And so I would just encourage people. The fact that things are going bad does not necessarily mean you have missed it. There's a key point in the story where Nehemiah comes to what's called the halfway point. It says, we rebuilt the wall and it reached half its height. And all of this drama is going on and they're only halfway there. The enemy can't stop you at 5%, 10%, 15%. Why? You just got the prophetic word. You were just in the revival service. You know, you just got that download. You just got that dream. You're filled with energy. The enemy can't stop you at 90%, 95%. Why, it's right there. We're almost there. We're almost there. The enemy's at the testing ground of the halfway point. The testing ground of the God, I have been holding on. God, I've been praying. And I think. I think if I could speak. Sometimes to Americans, we are a culture of instant gratification. And scripture is prophetic words that take 40 years to fulfill.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That is so true.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so we might be in a thing for three months, four months. God, where are you? Well, God, you're in this for the long haul. God's bringing something out for the long haul. And so be not weary. In well doing, you will reap. In due season, there is a Kairos moment. Do not give up. And the other thing I'll say to that is that part of the strategy of that is it was traumatic, it was bad. I mean, the story of Nehemiah, it is. Judah has given up the Jews who nehemiah has come to help the Jews and the Jews are turning against him. Now wait, just wait till the people you're trying to help turn against you. How many of us have gone through that in our life that the very people we're trying to help have turned against us? Nehemiah gets to this point, but what does he do? He pauses everything and he gets alone with God. And I think that's the Sabbath principle. You got to turn off your phone, you got to turn off your computer, you got to unplug. You got to go for a walk in a park with God. You got to just get into a place of perspective where you're not bombarded with all of this drama. So good you say, God, I am connected to eternity. I'm connected to you. And in our modern culture, that is an increasingly difficult thing to do. But I think it is absolutely necessary to inculcate that Sabbath principle inside of us.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's all the time we have. It went so fast. It was so good. And God isn't overwhelmed by your past pain. In fact, he's in the business taking our brokenness and using it to build something good. So if you're watching today and you need God to rebuild a broken place in your life or if you want to stand in agreement, you know, for something that's going on in your life, you know, we would love to pray with you, encourage you. There's a toll free number on your screen and we have wonderful prayer partners that are standing by always ready to pray with you and encourage you. I really want to encourage you to make that step of reaching out to the Lord today and just say, jesus, I need you. And you know, we all have that God shaped vacuum on the inside of us and he wants to fill that void. He wants to give you peace in the midst of whatever you're going through right now. I do want to thank Robert for sharing his story with us. Make sure you grab a copy of his book Rise and Overcoming Adversity. For more on his work, you can contact [e-mail] be sure to follow us on all social media platforms. Leave us a comment, Let us know how today's show touched your life. Make sure you subscribe to the Joni Table Talk podcast. It's available now across all the top podcast apps. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you, ladies. Thank you for sharing. Robert, appreciate you being here today.

[Jack Armstrong]

My honor, my pleasure.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

God bless you again. Get the book, it'll be a blessing. And call that number. We want to pray with you. We want to encourage you. That's what we're here for. We'll see you next time. Bye Bye for today.