JONI TABLE TALK | JUNE 28th, 2026

Summary

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Joni Table Talk | June 28th, 2026 — Real America’s Voice

Episode Theme Overview

This moving episode of Joni Table Talk centers on walking through seasons of grief, loss, and suffering—both sudden and gradual—and discovering hope, healing, and purpose even in the darkest valleys. Special guests Laurie and Sam Kelly share their family's journey through addiction, loss of a sibling, miscarriage, and the birth of a "rainbow baby." Later, renowned pastor and author Dr. Creflo Dollar recounts his own experience with profound health crises and spiritual transformation, emphasizing the power of grace and authentic relationship with God.

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Table of Contents

• Opening: Introducing the Theme (03:05)
• Laurie & Sam Kelly’s Story: Loss, Grief, and Hope (03:05–28:27)
  • The Shock of Loss: Laurie’s Sister (Lee Beth) (06:11)
  • The Struggle with Addiction and Mental Health (07:59)
  • How the Family Coped and Grew (11:10)
  • Facing Public Grief and Judgment (16:07)
  • The Miscarriage and Birth of a Rainbow Baby (19:58)
  • Notable Quotes & Moments
• Words for the Hurting: Encouragements & Advice (27:03)
• Dr. Creflo Dollar: Suffering, Grace, and Authentic Faith (35:37–63:34)
  • Legalism vs. Relationship (38:20)
  • Walking through Illness and Loss (40:05)
  • Lessons of Empathy and Letting Go of Approval (49:03)
  • Embracing “Vulnerability as a Ministry Tool” (52:42)
  • Addressing Emotions and Real Questions (55:01)
• Key Takeaways and Closing Messages

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<a name="opening"></a>

Opening: Introducing the Theme (03:05)

• Host Joni sets the stage with empathy:
  “Sometimes life brings unexpected moments, deep losses and grief that feels too heavy to bear. But today's guests are here to remind us that even in our most broken seasons, we still have hope.” (03:05)

• Table Guests Introduced:

  • April Silas (“Hope Dealer”)
  • Rachel Lamb Brown
  • Laurie and Sam Kelly
  • Others (panel-style)

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<a name="kelly"></a>

Laurie & Sam Kelly’s Story: Loss, Grief, and Hope (03:05–28:27)

The Shock of Loss: Laurie’s Sister (Lee Beth)

Laurie Kelly recalls the life and tragic passing of her older sister Lee Beth:

• On family change:
  “Our Christian counselor... said, you know, this event will be a before Le Beth died event and an after Lee Beth died event. It's that big.” (06:11)
• Lee Beth’s personality:
  “She was super funny, really creative, had a hard work ethic. Leader.” (07:13)
  • Eight years older than Laurie, paved the way for siblings.
• The shock:
  "You hear of things happening to people... you don't think it's gonna be you." (07:41)

The Struggle with Addiction and Mental Health

Laurie and Joni discuss Lee Beth’s issues:

• Depression and Unmet Hopes:
  “She had expectations, like we all do… she thought maybe she'd be married, have kids.” (08:31)
• On how addiction started:
  “A breakup was just so hard for her, and she leaned to alcohol for the first time... She was in pain, so she went to something to try to alleviate pain…” (09:01–09:14)
• Warning of binge drinking:
  Doctor: “If you do this again, you’re going to die.” (09:53)
• Family Intervention:
  Sam: “I ended up having to kick down the door... She just in a drunken stupor is slowly coming to, and we were able to clean her up, get her help, and she agreed to go to rehab, which was a big moment for her.” (11:10)

How the Family Coped and Grew

• Face of addiction:
  “She turned the corner... We don't know when she started relapsing, but we imagine it was around the holidays, as those were just difficult for her.” (10:54)
• Laurie’s father tried to save her:
  “He like prayed for her. Leah, it's going to be okay. God's got you. ... He went to his office and was writing a message on Abraham and Isaac and literally wrote 'Abraham laid down Isaac on the altar' and heard a noise... [She was] essentially gone.” (13:53–14:45)

Facing Public Grief and Judgment

• Being a public Christian family:
  “Being a public family and, you know, being on the platform... what are people gonna say? And are people gonna judge you?” (16:27)
• The complexity of conversation:
  “I want you to talk to me about it, but I don't want you to talk to me about it.” (16:39)
• Questioning faith:
  “Some people are like, well, you know, she probably didn't make it to heaven because she, you know, whatever. And that's just not true.” (17:49)

The Miscarriage and Birth of a Rainbow Baby

• New pregnancy after loss:
  “Here you are in 2020, and then in 2021, you get some good news… Laurie is pregnant with our third.” (19:58)
• Losing their daughter, Daisy Joy:
  “The doctor looks at me and is like, I think the baby's hiding today... She looks at me, and she says, 'Laurie, I'm so sorry. There's no heartbeat.' The first thing out of my mouth was, 'No, no, no, this cannot happen. My sister just died.'” (21:22)
• The pain:
  “I just noticed it was, like, a second too long, just of silence.” (21:32)
  “She was literally in the size of her palm.” (22:37)
  “I don’t get to experience her going to prom... I’m a pastor’s kid, like, God, where are you? We have spent our lives serving you, and these are the cards we’re dealt.” (22:40)
• Coping strategies:
  “Do the meal, pray for the person... Remember someone dropped a huge box of toys for our kids on our front porch.” (24:13)
• Hurtful vs. helpful words:
  “Sometimes where I’m like, Sam, I think if someone told me they were praying for me, I’d be mad. And I think if someone didn’t tell me they were praying for me, I’d be mad... I’m sad and I’m mad.” (24:00)

The Rainbow After Rain

• Birth of their daughter, Bowie ("rainbow baby"):
  “I saw a rainbow in the sky—and it was not raining... this could be our rainbow baby. … sure enough... we were pregnant… And so now we have Bowie Sunshine Kelly. And she is Sunshine. Like, she is God's kindness.” (25:40–26:07)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Laurie, on God in Grief:
  “It didn't end the way we wanted totally. But we know God's going to be faithful and you'll see her again.” (17:49)
• Sam’s Advice:
  “Whether you feel it or see it or not, God is With you. The psalmist reminds us that the Lord is close to the brokenhearted... if you trust him, you will see his faithfulness.” (27:13)
• Encouragement to Others:
  “We don’t have to hide our pain, but we can give it to Jesus. He’s the only one who can bring healing and really give purpose.” (29:46)

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<a name="encouragement"></a>

Words for the Hurting: Encouragement & Advice (27:03)

• April Silas, on hope:
  “A lot of people can get so stuck in their pain that they do lose hope. ... If you surrender your grief to him and say, I just want what you have for me.” (26:33)
• Advice to those in the valley:
  “Whether you feel it or see it or not, God is With you. … Even if your prayers aren’t answered the way you think, God is with you, and if you trust him, you will see his faithfulness.” (27:13, Sam Kelly)

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<a name="creflo"></a>

Dr. Creflo Dollar: Suffering, Grace, and Authentic Faith (35:37–63:34)

Legalism vs. Relationship (38:20)

• Creflo Dollar on shifting from striving to resting in Christ:
  “I want to know what's finished. … Money is not prosperity. Wholeness is... That's what makes you successful.” (38:20, 39:58)

Walking Through Illness and Loss

• COVID, clots, shingles, cancer—four health crises, but also spiritual insights:

  • “Covid's almost over. I get Covid, and I'm confronted with a lot of things that I really didn’t know was there, like approval, addiction. … Will you get an understanding of laboring? Because that's a very interesting scripture, you know, labor to rest.” (40:05–41:33)
  • “The Lord's revealing things like John, chapter nine... God may be preparing them for his glory to be seen.” (42:09)
  • Deep pain: “Shingles was the most painful thing I've ever experienced before in my Life to the point where I asked God, are we okay? … I am now questioning my identity.” (44:37–45:32)

• Empathy:

  • “I would ask, I wonder what it took for them to get into that place right there.” (49:26)

• On wisdom from the wilderness:

  • “Never leaving the wisdom that you gathered through hard times. Don't ever leave it in the wilderness. Bring that wisdom with you, because it's gonna make you better... there's maturity that happens in the midst of discomfort.” (47:21)

Notable Quote

• On the temptation to blame oneself:
  • Taffy (wife) to Creflo: “You didn’t do anything wrong, and now you know what we got to do. ... It does not say your faith is weak ... It just says you need to deal with this this way and continue to say, I am healed.” (47:26–48:02)

Letting Go of Approval

• “We cannot help God when we are addicted to approval. ... Especially Internet approval.” (49:03)
• Greater empathy for others’ suffering:
  • “When I would see people in a certain way, I would ask, I wonder what it took for them to get into that place right there.” (49:26)
• “Whatever you go through, take the wisdom from it, because that's what life is. You're gonna either do life or it's gonna do you.” (49:33–50:03)

Vulnerability as a Ministry Tool

• “Vulnerability could be the most powerful ministry tool for today. … It's hard for people to receive a lot of what you're saying ... And then they look at your perfect self up there... and you ain't got no problem with your mate, with your children...” (52:42)

Addressing Emotions & Real Questions

• Healthy expression:
  • “He wants to have that kind of relationship with you, by the way... Just say, 'I'm mad at you.' He can take it.” (55:01)
• On trusting when your heart is broken:
  • “You make it to trust God. ... Laboring to rest. ... It's a quality decision that I'm going to trust God. Come, hail the high water.” (55:05–56:29)
• On faith and doubt:
  • “You remember the guy who said, 'Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief.' There was no rebuke that followed that.” (59:37)

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<a name="takeaways"></a>

Key Takeaways and Closing Messages

• Joni’s closing encouragement:
  • “This lifetime is just a stepping stone to the life to come. ... We don’t have to hide our pain, but we can give it to Jesus. ... And if you’re struggling with an addiction, we need to shine the light on it, get some help. ... God can heal your heart. He really can if you reach out to him.” (29:46)
  • “You don't have to earn what Jesus already gave us. ... you're loved, you're accepted, you're enough because of him, because of the finished work of the cross.” (61:13)
  • “That's the beautiful presence of God that's there with you, just letting you know that he loves you. He has a plan for your life.” (63:34)

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Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• “Grief is a hard one. It's like a megaphone in your head that nobody else can hear but you, and it's just triggered at random times.” — Rachel Lamb Brown (03:47)
• “It's that refining fire ... that makes us stronger. Either we are propelled closer to God, or people run the other way.” — Joni (05:00)
• “She struggled with depression, anxiety, kind of growing up... I think she had expectations... after that breakup... she leaned to alcohol for the first time.” — Laurie Kelly (08:31–09:14)
• “We knew that there was a struggle there, but ... it became real for us.” — Sam Kelly (11:18)
• “No parent should bury their child.” — Laurie Kelly (15:18)
• “The Bible’s not a highlight reel... Look at the people who God used. They were messes.” — Brett Baer (18:36)
• “Whether you feel it or see it or not, God is with you. ... If you trust him, you will see his faithfulness.” — Sam Kelly (27:13)
• “Laboring to rest simply means... getting up and just readjusting your dish.” — Creflo Dollar (41:33)
• “Vulnerability could be the most powerful ministry tool for Today.” — Creflo Dollar (52:42)
• “You don't have to earn what Jesus already gave us... You're enough because of him.” — Joni (61:13)

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Timestamps of Noteworthy Segments

• Laurie & Sam Kelly: Lee Beth’s story & addiction - (06:11–14:45)
• Laurie & Sam’s miscarriage and Daisy’s story - (19:58–26:07)
• Words for the grieving: (“What do you say?”) - (24:00–24:55)
• Birth of rainbow baby Bowie - (25:38–26:07)
• Encouragement for those in the valley - (27:03–28:27)
• Creflo Dollar: Story begins - (35:37)
• Legalism vs. grace - (38:20–41:33)
• Health crises and spiritual lessons - (41:33–50:03)
• Wisdom after suffering, approval addiction, empathy - (49:03–50:03)
• Vulnerability and real ministry - (52:42–53:16)
• Dealing with emotions and faith after crisis - (55:01–57:42)
• Grace, faith and “living in the realm of finished” - (58:19–59:43)
• Final encouragement and call to faith - (61:13–63:34)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a heartfelt, raw, and hope-filled discussion about the realities of loss, anxiety, addiction, faith, and the journey from pain to healing. Through the honest testimonies of Laurie and Sam Kelly, and the deep reflections of Dr. Creflo Dollar, listeners are encouraged to acknowledge pain, seek help, embrace the process, trust God’s goodness, and never lose hope—no matter what the journey holds.

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For more resources and full episodes, visit fellowshipchurch.com or worldchangers.org. If you need prayer, reach out to the numbers shared in this episode. You are not alone.

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Transcript

[Karen]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from My favorite Murder.

[Georgia]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Karen]

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[Georgia]

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[Karen]

Jean King, presented by The Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Laurie Kelly]

Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

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[Newt Gingrich]

new TRO podcast we're celebrating America's 250th birthday and I asked my guests how they're spending their 4th of July.

[Brett Baer]

Brett Baer I will be working. I'll be in Washington cause it's a big, big day.

[Jared Isaacman]

Jared Isaacman I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

Listen to Newts world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't wanna live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Jo Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy

[Brett Baer]

modern world about something about a comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes, listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

As America marks its 250th anniversary, we're looking back at two and a half centuries of rebellion and liberty through the eyes of the heroes who defended it.

[Sam Kelly]

The whole thing about this country is freedom. If we're not careful, we could lose that.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Stories of Courage, we bring you the defining moments of valor that went above and beyond the call of duty. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joni]

Well, you know, sometimes life brings unexpected moments, deep losses and grief that feels too heavy to bear. But today's guests are here to remind us that even in our most broken seasons, we still have hope. But before we get to that, join me. Around the table is the Hope dealer that I know, April Silas. She calls herself the Hope Dealer.

[April Silas]

I do. I try. Because we all need hope. This is going to be a great show.

[Joni]

We do. Anna Kendall.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Joni]

How are you? I am just great. And I love the fact that we're going to talk about hope and coming through grief.

[Laurie Kelly]

None of us want to.

[Joni]

We all experience grief, but we don't want to get stuck in it. Right. We don't want to stay there. But it is a process. It is a process, Rachel, and you must go through it. That's true. How are you doing?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I'm good. Grief is a hard one. It's like a megaphone in your head that nobody else can hear but you, and it's just triggered at random times. You never know when it's gonna come. And so glad we're gonna talk and give people hope today.

[Joni]

That's good. Rebecca Lamb Weiss.

[Jared Isaacman]

How are you?

[Sam Kelly's wife]

I'm always happy to be right here next to you.

[Joni]

Here you are right here next to me. You don't have to be in grief. You can be in joy.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Sam Kelly's wife]

And you can have joy in the midst of grief. And grief is a process, and it's hard, and I don't think you really understand it until you go through it, you know?

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joni]

For sure. Kendra, Kelly Dean. I talk that one of my really first great losses was my grandfather when I was 14, because I was very close to him, and he was a great musician, and I had a great connection with him, and I'd spend a lot of time and. Oh, it was just. He had a cerebral hemorrhage. It was, like, quick. And I just remember standing there crying at the funeral home, but it was really grief. And I mean, that's a process you have to go through, and you don't know when it's going to hit you.

[Karen]

And the thing is, no one gets to tell you how to grieve. You just do it with the Lord, and he'll pace you through it, and he will comfort you. Through it. He's so faithful that way.

[Joni]

But we really. He really is. Laurie and Sam Kelly are here.

[Brett Baer]

We are so excited to be here.

[Karen]

Thanks for having me.

[April Silas]

Yes, we are.

[Joni]

Welcome to the table.

[Brett Baer]

Thank you.

[April Silas]

Such a beautiful couple.

[Jared Isaacman]

Thank you.

[Joni]

They are. Sam is a little outnumbered.

[April Silas]

He is with the girls.

[Sam Kelly]

I am.

[Brett Baer]

I am. I'm at the girls table today, but it's gonna be a good time.

[Joni]

But he has a girl.

[Brett Baer]

That's true.

[Joni]

And he deals with abuse. Thank you. You have a lot of girls in youth ministry.

[Brett Baer]

Oh, yeah. Youth ministry. And, yeah, we're loving it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I love it.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I love it.

[Karen]

Aw.

[Newt Gingrich]

Well, of course.

[Joni]

From the heartbreaking loss of their sister to the miscarriage of their daughter, Laurie and Sam Kelly have seen God take their deepest pain and turn it into purpose. And today, they're here to share how grief can become the very ground where faith can grow stronger. It doesn't always preach well, because actually, the Bible has a lot to say about. You know, it's in the valley that we grow. It's that refining fire of. And turmoil and things that we go through in life that make us stronger. And I found that when these kind of things happen, either we are propelled closer to God, or people run the other way. So for you, Laurie, I mean, growing up, Both of you, PK's in a strong Christian home, it was really shocking. Losing your sister. Take us through that.

[Karen]

Yes.

[Laurie Kelly]

It was such a shock. Like, family functions obviously look different. And, like, I remember our Christian counselor. I love Christian counseling. It's helped so much. But he said, you know, this event will be a before Le Beth died event and an after Lee Beth died event. It's that big. And I feel like we've definitely felt that, but, like, God's faithfulness, like, even this past Sunday at church, Sam, alongside my dad, who's a pastor, and then his dad is a pastor, got to baptize our son. And it was the best Sunday. But it was one of those moments. In a split second, I'm like, I. I'm so thankful for the firm foundation in Jesus and that in doing the mundane and doing it with Jesus. And, yes, we've been through heartache, but, like, look, like God smiles, and God is so kind, isn't it?

[Joni]

It's so good. Was that thunder that got back to you?

[April Silas]

It was.

[Joni]

Okay, we'll talk about thunder in a minute. Be careful what you name your kid.

[Laurie Kelly]

That's true.

[April Silas]

So.

[Joni]

Okay, so let's go back and tell us a little bit about Lee Beth. She was the oldest.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes.

[Joni]

I Know, she had a great sense of humor.

[Laurie Kelly]

She had a great sense of humor.

[Joni]

She made everybody laugh.

[Newt Gingrich]

Yes.

[Laurie Kelly]

She was super funny, really creative, and, like, had a hard work ethic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Leader.

[Laurie Kelly]

Leader.

[Brett Baer]

Strong leader.

[Laurie Kelly]

So. And it was like, I feel like you and her had the same humor, which is, like, we all did. But, like, y' all would always joke at every family function together. But she was super, definitely, like, a firstborn. And so she's eight years older than me and my twin sister, six years older than my brother. So she was definitely, like, paved the way.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Big gap.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes. And paved the way for all of us. And so. Yes. So close to her. And so just. It was just the biggest shock when she passed away. And you hear of things happening to people, like, especially growing up in a Christian home, like, you hear, like, being in ministry, bad things happen to good people.

[Joni]

Right, right.

[Laurie Kelly]

You don't think it's gonna be you,

[Brett Baer]

and you're a pastor's kid, and so you kind of feel like this veneer to pretend like everything's okay.

[Joni]

You kind of have, like, an imaginary ball of protection around you. Like, okay, this is gonna happen to

[Karen]

us because everyone's watching you.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Karen]

They're watching to see how you handle it.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes.

[Joni]

Okay, so let's go back and talk about kind of what happened that led up to this. Because, I mean, Lee Beth was loved God.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes. Worked at the church.

[Joni]

Worked at the church. But she got involved in a relationship. Talk a little bit about what happened with that.

[Laurie Kelly]

So she got involved in a relationship, was dating a guy that just wasn't great, and introduced her to things that she'd not been introduced to. And so they broke up, and it was really hard on her. And she struggled with depression, anxiety, kind of growing up. And I just think she had expectations, like we all do in life, and just some things that she thought maybe she'd be married, have kids.

[Joni]

Because she wanted to be married.

[April Silas]

Yeah.

[Joni]

She wanted to have kids. Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I think everybody does. Those are normal things that every girl dreams of.

[Laurie Kelly]

Totally. And so we all have those expectations. And so I think that breakup was just so hard for her, and she leaned to alcohol for the first time,

[Joni]

which she hadn't even. That hadn't even been a part of her life.

[Laurie Kelly]

No, no, no, no.

[Joni]

But that door was opened. I always wanted to say, you never know when you open a door, whether it's to alcohol or drugs, pornography or whatever. When you crack it open so many times, you don't know if there's going to be an addiction that will follow. But she. She was in pain, so she went to something to try to alleviate pain, and then it turned into. So what happened with her?

[Laurie Kelly]

So in 2021, January 19th. So she went through some binge drinking, which is even more dangerous than if you're just drinking.

[Joni]

It sounds like she was drinking every day, but she would. Which would be really over her body.

[Laurie Kelly]

And so I remember there was multiple episodes, but a doctor said, if you do this again, you're going to die. And, of course.

[Joni]

So why is that? Because you ingest so much alcohol.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah. Apparently your body builds a tolerance if you do it daily, and if you don't, when you just binge drink it, it just comes in and literally acts, which is what it is.

[Joni]

She had some of these episodes, but you guys actually helped her and your mom and dad get into rehab. Right. And she was doing really good.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, she was. Yeah.

[Laurie Kelly]

She turned the corner, and March of 2020 on, like, she was doing great. We don't know when she started kind of relapsing, but we imagine it was, like, around the holidays, as those were just difficult for her and are for so many people. She lived by herself, and she lived by herself. She lived five minutes from us up the road, and she struggled. And so I think Christmas came. And then January 19th of 2021, I get a call that she's relapsed. And we kind of wondered that.

[Joni]

And Covid didn't help, by the way,

[Laurie Kelly]

all the animals, she actually was isolated. She was quarantined. And so that did not help her.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

How did you guys know that she had relapsed?

[Laurie Kelly]

So just things like at Christmas that she wasn't acting normal, or maybe you would get angry at a certain thing that you're like, oh, you're not acting yourself.

[Brett Baer]

And then we had gotten a phone call from Laurie's parents to say, hey, we just got a phone call from one of Lee Beth's friends. She didn't sound good on the phone. Could you go check on her?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah.

[Brett Baer]

And so we went over, and again, we knew that she had an addiction. We knew that there was a struggle there, but it was at this moment where it became real for us. So we go to the house. I knock on the door. There's no answer. And I'm like, we know she's in her car, was here. So I'm, like, walking around the house, trying to see if I can peek through a window and just see through the tiniest little crack in the window that she's. What I hope in the moment is Just uncomfortable on the floor. And so I go back out to Laurie and say, hey Laurie, I think it's gonna be best if you go home. I'm gonna call 91 1. Lee Beth needs some serious help. I ended up having to kick down the door calling out to Lee Beth and she just in a drunken stupor is slowly coming to and we were able to clean her up, get her help and she agreed to go to rehab, which was a big moment for her. And again that's where the recovery process started to begin. She did well. And then In January of 21 she

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

had some insight like after that incident of like where her head was at or why she was alcohol, I don't

[Laurie Kelly]

remember her like saying exactly, but like she would admit and she would go through the 12 steps. Obviously you're going through the 12 steps program. And I know each step was obviously, as you can imagine, an addict, very difficult for her. But she went through the steps. Like I remember she asked for forgiveness for each of our, from our family members. So there's some like we have letters of that and like those mean more so much to me. But yes. And I think just her birthday was in October and I think that was a hard time coming back from rehab. And she's turning another year older and

[Joni]

still doesn't have her life like a person. And she's going to be totally, you know, take us back to that day if you will, because I know that your dad was there. Yes. And she actually, I guess he got her.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes. So fast forward from that incident with Sam and I after rehab. And then the following January 19th of 2021, my dad gets a call for her. They like talk and he's like, Lee Beth's not well. He goes to her house, picks her up and she's obviously not well, it's a mess. And takes her to his house. My mom's out of town in Columbia, South Carolina, taking care of her mom at the time. And so my dad's just cleaning her up, helping her get sober, just with everything and talking to a therapist, getting insight. And she ends up staying in our like playroom kind of guest room at my parents house and my dad goes to study in his office.

[Joni]

So she's just like right there.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes, right there.

[Joni]

He went to go Prepare for this 25 steps away.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes. And like he literally kissed her on the forehead right before he went to his office. He like prayed for her. Leah, it's going to be okay. God's got you. And went to his office and was writing a message on Abraham and Isaac and literally wrote Abraham laid down Isaac on the altar and heard a noise and yelled for her and said Li Beth didn't answer, ran in and she's essentially gone. Like we did cpr, everything they did. My brother and sister in law were there and she's a nurse, which I'm thankful because you always say, what if? And like there was a nurse right there and did mouth to mouth. And ambulance comes, she goes to the hospital. The faintest heartbeat comes just for a little bit. And then there we are on FaceTime. Cause it's during COVID saying goodbye to her and it's just.

[Joni]

And you all sang Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace.

[Laurie Kelly]

And Sam let us.

[Joni]

But the doctors were saying this is really bad.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes. And like. Cause at first, like, you're just. I'm like, oh, she relapsed. Like, I didn't even text her that day. Which again, you can always. Like, I should have, could have. And I've gone through that process. Like I should have done this, but what's happened's happened, but you know, you just wish that you would have. I would have texted her, but she. And now she's made whole in heaven. And I'm thankful that, you know, she knows all of our hearts.

[Joni]

Well, I mean, you're still praying. Like when she's in the hospital, you're like, God, raise her up.

[Laurie Kelly]

And we do miracles 100%. And so Sam was there and we prayed, but it's. There was just. It just felt so unreal. Like I remember being on the phone with my dad after because my mom wasn't there and I was gonna meet him when he came home from the hospital. And it's just like you're hearing the nurse ask like, okay, what's time of death? Like, all these things. And I'm like, my dad's talking about his daughter. Like, and watching my parents walk through that, it's something that like, no parent should bury their child. And so you. I had. I want other moms to know, like, you might not think anyone's watching or dads, but your kids are watching you. And I got a front row seat to watch my parents walk a journey that is so, so difficult. But they did it so beautifully alongside God and they're still doing it.

[Brett Baer]

And even them deciding to share it because they don't have to share the

[Joni]

details of it because your mom was right on here and shared the whole story and it was so moving.

[Brett Baer]

And it's their heart just to continue to help people. And maybe it's People wrestling with addiction, maybe it's people wrestling with loss, Their hearts from the jump, which is pretty incredible, was just, how can we see God use this?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And there's, like, another layer of that, like, being a public family and, you know, being on the platform and, like, what are people gonna say? And are people gonna judge you?

[Joni]

And, I mean, people say the right thing and the wrong thing.

[Laurie Kelly]

I want you to talk to me about it, but I don't want you to talk to me about it.

[April Silas]

That's what made it so real. Because I was in church the day that they taught Yalls church, the day they talked about it, and it just made it. You know, this happened to us. We're hurt, we're devastated. But everyone in the crowd could feel the pain, the reality. And you're real people, and you had a real heartbreak. And thank God you had God on your stomach.

[Joni]

You know, another important point I want to say here is that Le Beth loved God.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Joni]

And so some of you watching, you know, you may have lost a family member that loved God. And maybe there was a battle going on, and it didn't end the way you thought it was going to end. It doesn't take away from the fact that God's love and mercy is there and that Leah Beth is with the Lord. And. No, nobody wanted to see her go through what she went through or the relapse, whatever, but the struggle was real. But she was always struggling towards the Lord. Her flesh was weak, but her spirit was strong.

[Laurie Kelly]

The battle's over.

[Joni]

The battle's over.

[Laurie Kelly]

And she's in heaven with Jesus.

[Joni]

She is. And it didn't end the way we wanted totally. But we know God's going to be faithful and you'll see her again. I think it's important to say that some people are like, well, you know, there are people that preach this gospel. Well, she probably didn't make it to heaven because she, you know, whatever. And that's just not true. God's grace and his mercy. When you invite Jesus into your heart, you ask him to forgive you of your sins. It's a done deal.

[Brett Baer]

Amen.

[Joni]

And you may have struggles, you may make mistakes, but you can get back up again. And I want to tell you that today, encourage you with that. But somebody needed to hear that. How important is it for people to understand that you don't just make a mistake and God blocks you?

[Laurie Kelly]

That's everything. We're all sinners. And, like, I think in our humanity, we can be like, oh, this sin's way worse than this. Sin. But we're all sinners in need of a sinner.

[Brett Baer]

Oh, and it's what I love about the Bible. The Bible's not a highlight reel. Look at the people who God used. They were messes. You look at David, you look at Moses, you look at all this, you look at Abraham. And I was reading something recently. It said God saw them in the midst of their mistake and he smiled. And he didn't smile because of the mistake they made. He smiled because they knew who to turn to when they made a mistake. And there's so much power in just going back to God.

[Joni]

That's good. So good. Well, stay right where you are. When we come back, we're going to talk about Laurie and Sam's miscarriage. Some books deserve to be held, cherished, remembered. This one is more than that. It's a place to meet God. The new Bible and journal bundle is designed to help you slow down, reflect, and listen, paired with a journal that gives you space for your prayers, your questions, and your journey. Get yours today for just $29.99 at jonielam.com bible or call now to order. Well, we've been talking with Laurie and Sam and just really taking us through the loss of your sister Laurie, and what a moving story. And I hope it's just encouraged so many of you that are watching. But here you are in 2020, and then in 2021, you get some good news. And what is that? Cause you got two boys.

[Brett Baer]

Yes, we do. We get the good news that Laurie is pregnant with our third. And so in the midst of the loss, the grief, the pain, there's this glimmer of hope and glimmer of life. And so we have something to look forward to which felt really, really good in that moment. And so Laurie went to her doctor's appointments, started checkups, and everything was good.

[Joni]

This is the third time around.

[Jack Armstrong]

Your life.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, she's a pro. She's going to the doctor by herself.

[Sam Kelly]

She's like, I don't need you.

[Brett Baer]

And I'm like, okay.

[Laurie Kelly]

I was pregnant during COVID so I was like, I can do anything by myself. But we went to our 14 or I went to my 14 week appointment and they put the Doppler on my belly. Just routine, two healthy kids. And the doctor looks at me and is like, I think the baby's hiding today. And I thought, oh. And she was like, let's do a sonogram. Would you like a sonogram? And I said, yes, I'd love a sonogram, because you don't get a lot of those, right? And so she left the room to get the sonogram room ready. And I just start thinking, oh, is that, like, a fancy way of saying, like, something could be wrong? Like what the. What the doctor said to me? So I call Sam. Kind of just scared and, like, thoughts running through my mind. And he comforts me. And I remember you prayed with me and kind of put me at peace. And I walked to the sonogram room. He tells me to call him when I get there. And I walk the sonogram room, and she starts doing the sonogram. And I just noticed it was, like, a second too long, just of silence. And I look at her, and she looks at me, and she says, laurie, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. There's no heartbeat. And the first thing out of my mouth was, no, no, no, this cannot happen. My sister just died. Like, this cannot happen. And she knew my sister just died. And she was like, I know. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I call Sam, and you're just, like, in shock. And Sam was, like, praying, I'm gonna pray for a miracle, that God's gonna bring a heartbeat.

[Joni]

But, you know, it was a girl.

[Brett Baer]

We did it at that moment. So I'm driving to the doctor's office,

[Laurie Kelly]

and I hoped it was a girl, even with Lebeth, like, thinking like, oh, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful story. I like that story.

[Joni]

Yeah.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah. And so I get there, and she does the sonogram again and just says, guys, I'm so sorry. And because of how far along Laurie is, we're gonna have to have you in the hospital and have you deliver this baby. And so I'll never forget going in and just seeing the strength of my wife. She's going into the delivery room, puts her hands on her belly, and just says, God, thank you for the gift of being able to carry this baby for 12 to 14 weeks. And I just remember just being an absolute wreck. She delivers our beaut. And the doctor says it was a girl, and we named her Daisy Joy Kelly.

[Joni]

And you got to hold her.

[Brett Baer]

We did. We got to hold her.

[Joni]

So how big was she at that you said she was?

[Laurie Kelly]

She was literally in the size of her palm.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah. And just held her in a blanket and. Yeah, it was. I remember her being placed in the place where they weigh babies and just looking and thinking of all the things that I don't get to experience with my baby girl. I don't get to See her go to her first day of school. I don't get to experience her going to prom and all the rest of it and just feeling like, again, as a pastor's kid, like, God, where are you? We have spent our lives serving you, building your church, and these are the cards that were dealt. And yet in the midst of it, there was always the anchor to our soul of God. Whatever this is, whatever we may or may not understand, we choose to cling to you. Even through the question marks.

[April Silas]

Yes.

[Laurie Kelly]

And why was like, a huge question and still is. Like, I think in our humanity, we want to know the reason for everything,

[Joni]

but I don't know why. We'd always like to hear the answer.

[Brett Baer]

You're right.

[Sam Kelly's wife]

And I don't think we always do get an answer.

[Joni]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, but that, again, is where it really is pivotal in that we decide whether we're going to trust God through this or not.

[Brett Baer]

Exactly.

[Joni]

Whether we're going to be faithful to him no matter the trust him, no matter what the circumstances. You all both came to that conclusion. And what were some of the right things people said and the wrong things? Because I think it's important.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Oh, God.

[Laurie Kelly]

You know, there's some times where I'm like, sam, I think if someone told me they were praying for me, I'd be mad. And I think if someone didn't tell me they were praying for me, I'd be mad. Like, I'm just. I'm sad and I'm mad.

[Joni]

Or I just want to hug you.

[April Silas]

Yes.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. I'm like.

[Laurie Kelly]

But, you know, I think. And I've said this, I think even being a pastor's kid, you feel like you grew up in this perfect home. We did not grow up in a perfect home, but it was great. But you think, like, I'm not adequate to talk to someone else about what? Like, if they're going through something hard, like, who am I? And this has made me realize what's important. Like, you can say, I feel like some people would be like, if there's any way I can help, let me know. Just do something. Do the meal, pray for the person. And that's what people did to us. I remember someone dropped a huge box of toys for our kids off at our front porch. A connect group in our church. That was huge because my kids were going through stuff and I was. And they just dropped off that. And that was, like, huge for us.

[Joni]

But, yeah, yeah, make food.

[Laurie Kelly]

Yes, make food.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Joni]

But don't say, God's got another Little angel, or you can have another baby.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I think it's probably especially hard. I mean, especially at the loss of your sister, but that it was your girl finally. Because you had two boys.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, it was. It totally was.

[Laurie Kelly]

And he, like, wanted. He wanted two boys and a girl. Like, he always. And I was like, oh, yes. And then I actually pictured three boys. And then we lost her. And I'm like, I want a girl so bad. God, I want a girl, like. And what's really special is. So we delivered her February 28th of 2022. August 26th of 2022. We're, like, mourning because it's Daisy's due date.

[Joni]

That's when she was.

[Laurie Kelly]

And so I remember driving, and I was just sad that day. But I saw a rainbow in the sky, and I promise you it was not raining. And I just saw a rainbow in the sky. And I was like, sam, I feel like I might be pregnant because I just saw a rainbow in the sky. And, like, this could be our rainbow baby. And sure enough, I got a pregnancy test and we were pregnant. And we later find out that it's a girl. And so now we have Bowie Sunshine Kelly. And she is Sunshine. Like, she is God's kindness.

[Joni]

And she's a force.

[Brett Baer]

Yes, she is a force.

[Laurie Kelly]

When you have two older brothers.

[Brett Baer]

Young girl. Yes.

[April Silas]

So he has sunshine and thunder.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Yes.

[Newt Gingrich]

Oh, yeah.

[Laurie Kelly]

All the earth.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah, that's true. We just like weather.

[Joni]

What is it that touches you so much, Kendra, about this?

[Karen]

It's just God's timing, especially in our suffering, is always so gentle and beautiful.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Karen]

And I'm just really proud of you guys for not giving up hope, but just trusting him in your pain and in your grief and just being willing to accept the blessing that he gave you. And I think that a lot of people can get so stuck in their pain that they do lose hope. And they don't think, oh, God, God, he doesn't see me, doesn't hear me. And sometimes we miss the blessings that he's trying to show us because we're so stuck in our hopelessness, if that makes any sense. But he's just so good. If you just surrender your grief to him and say, I just want what you have for me.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

What would you guys say to someone who's, like, currently walking through the valley and they're still in the storm and they can't see maybe that rainbow or that sunshine yet on the other side?

[Brett Baer]

I think the first thing that I would say is, whether you feel it or see it or not, God is With you. The psalmist reminds us that the Lord is close to the brokenhearted, and we serve a God who is familiar with suffering himself. I go back to the Garden of Gethsemane, and if you feel like you're living in unanswered prayer, you're in a club that Jesus was a part of, seemingly, as he prayed. God, if it's possible, let this cup pass from me. And I say that it's in that seemingly unanswered prayer that we experience the greatest good in all of human history, that we can sit here and be in a relationship with Jesus. And so whether your prayers get answered the way you think or not, God is with you. And if you trust him, you will see his faithfulness. And we have the hope. Paul says we don't grieve like other people grieve because we understand this is just the dress rehearsal. There's eternity waiting for us all.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yes.

[Sam Kelly's wife]

And I would just commend you guys, too, for not giving up and giving into hopelessness and not allowing yourselves to be offended at God, but pushing through all the suffering and the hurt and being able to come out the other side and look at all that God has done, working it all together for the good. And your testimony is so powerful and so strong because people need to hear not to give up and to keep trusting God, even when life in those moments makes no sense.

[Joni]

And we all said that Leigh Beth was there to take little Daisy Joy. She saw my picture I'm taking.

[Jared Isaacman]

Yes.

[Brett Baer]

Showing her all the cool parts of heaven.

[Joni]

I love it. That's what's the reason I love that. Well, you know, you say, I don't know about your theology, Joni. That's okay.

[Laurie Kelly]

That's the mental picture I have.

[Joni]

That's the visual that I have anyway. But we are out of time. But I want you to remember that God is faithful even in our deepest grief. You know, this lifetime is just a stepping stone to the life to come. It's just a vapor. Eternity's a long time. We're going to see Lee Beth again. They're going to see that baby girl. And Laurie and Sam's story reminds us that we don't have to hide our pain, but we can give it to Jesus. He's the only one who can bring healing and really give purpose. And he can take a situation like that, and as bad as it was, he can turn it around and use it for good and help other people. And that's why we share it with you today, because we want you to know that God isn't through with you yet. And if you're struggling with an addiction, we need to shine the light on it, get some help. You know, Laurie mentioned Christian counseling. Talk to your pastor. Don't stay in that dark place. But God can heal your heart. He really can if you reach out to him. If you need prayer, that's why that prayer line number's on the screen. We have amazing prayer partners that are standing by. And if you haven't invited Jesus into your heart, that is the most important decision that you can make today. And I always tell the story about my grandpa who's 19 years old and didn't really know anything about God or how to pray. He just said, God, if you're there, I need you. And God met him right where he was and just changed the destiny of our family. And he will meet you where you are. Just say, jesus, come into my heart right now. Forgive me, and he will meet you right where you are. I do want to thank Laurie and Sam for joining us. To know more about their ministry, visit fellowshipchurch.com and as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content, and let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. And of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. But thank you so much for watching. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. Laurie and Sam, thank you. What a blessing. I'm so excited. Is this. It is. Any more after?

[Brett Baer]

I think it's three and out for us. I think this is three will kind

[Joni]

of put you over there anyway.

[Jack Armstrong]

All right.

[Joni]

Thank you guys for being here. Hope you've been encouraged today. Okay, you hang in there. God's not through with you. He loves you. Call us if you prayed that prayer. I'll send you the gospel of John for free. Is just our free gift to you. And we just want to be a blessing to you. We'll see you next time.

[Karen]

Bye.

[Joni]

Bye for today.

[Karen]

Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from My favorite Murder.

[Georgia]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Karen]

Want the full story?

[Georgia]

Take a listen, Hedy. She starts dating Howard Hughes, the aviation tycoon. Do you know a lot about him?

[Karen]

I mean, I watch the Aviator, so I know everything Leonardo DiCaprio has allowed me to know about, but incredible innovator, right?

[Georgia]

She says he's a, quote, very strange man. But they do get along really well, give us examples. I know they do get along intellectually and in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. She takes a look at what he's designed. It's got these square wings and she's like, that doesn't make sense. And so she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of like what the two would look like as a plane. And, and that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King.

[Karen]

Presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Laurie Kelly]

Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this is Newt Gingrich,

[Newt Gingrich]

former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast Newt's World with 15 special episodes. And I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Brett Baer]

I will be working because it's a big, big day.

[Sam Kelly]

I'll be in Washington and have all

[Newt Gingrich]

kinds of coverage through the day of America 250. Rachel campus Duffy.

[Laurie Kelly]

There's nothing like American music. We're the home of rock and roll. We're the home of rap.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

We're the home of pop music.

[Newt Gingrich]

Eric Metaxas, Jared Isaacman.

[Jared Isaacman]

I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital, the

[Newt Gingrich]

story of the national anthem and the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Join me and let's celebrate America's 250. Listen to Newts World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you did your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't wanna live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're AR Strong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy

[Brett Baer]

modern world about something about a comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Jared Isaacman]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong. You get it on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

2026 marks the 250th anniversary of America. The soul of this country is found in the stories of those who defended. I'm J.R. martinez, a U.S. army veteran. I know that true valor isn't just a word. It's a choice made in a split second. That's why I'm honored to bring you a brand new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. You'll fly into the heart of a rescue mission with Air Force pilot James Fleming in Vietnam.

[Sam Kelly]

I'm gonna put you out in the middle of the if you have to come home, I'll bring you home. That's my duty. It's my honor.

[J.R. Martinez]

We'll also travel back to 1926 to witness Richard Byrd's historic flight over the North Pole. These are more than just stories of combat. They are testaments to leadership, community, and the human spirit. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joni]

Well, what if everything you've been striving to earn was already fully provided? Well, today's guest is here to reveal how to break free from legalism and step into a life of rest and peace and grace. He's going to be sharing a powerful revelation from his new book, the Transformative Power of Grace. He's going to share his personal story. You want to be sure and stay tuned. But before we get to that, joining around the table is April Simons. How are you?

[April Silas]

I'm doing great. And I love. It's not about rules, it's about relationship. And I love our guest today. Been a family friend forever and my first time, I think, meeting him.

[Sam Kelly's wife]

Love it.

[Joni]

Dorothy Newton, how are you? I am doing so good.

[Sam Kelly]

Really good.

[Joni]

Yes, we love, like, testimonies, don't we? Authentic testimonies. God's testament of his glory is just unbelievable. What he's done, what he can do. So I've heard a lot about our guests and I'm excited because his ministry has really helped a lot of people for sure. Rachel Lamb Brown, how are you?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I'm good, man. You never know what somebody's walked through, huh?

[Joni]

You never know.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

You just see them on stage and preaching and encouraging and pouring out, never knowing the battles that they're facing.

[Joni]

It's true. It's so true.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

And it gives you courage and hope to know that God can bring you to the other side. And he always will.

[Joni]

That's right. We need to hear that, don't we?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

That's right.

[Joni]

Cindy Johnston, how are you?

[April Silas]

Hey.

[Joni]

I am good.

[April Silas]

So excited about our guest today. What a legendary minister of the gospel,

[Joni]

even though he's still young.

[Georgia]

Yes.

[April Silas]

Well, you can be 30 and still be a legend.

[Joni]

That's right.

[April Silas]

But I'm excited to hear what he has to share today.

[Joni]

Well, Dr. Creflo Dollar, welcome to the table.

[Sam Kelly]

Thank you. I'm glad to finally be at the table.

[Joni]

I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. Well, you know, if you're tired of striving, it's time to step into the truth that God has already given us everything we need. And Creflo Dollar is a pastor and bestselling author who walked through a season of pain and actually illness almost like a modern day job. And he's here to share how the power of grace carried him through. So first off, I want to say thank you for being here.

[Sam Kelly]

You're welcome.

[Joni]

And have enjoyed your teaching ministry for so many years. You're just a great teacher of the word of God. I mean, you break it down where you can understand it. Like sometimes you hear people preach and you're like, okay, I don't know that I understand all that, but you really take time to try to explain it in a way. And Jesus was like that, wasn't he? Okay, so take us through. Of course, you pastor a great church in Atlanta, preached for 30 plus years, maybe more. We won't tell everything, but tell us about this last season from say 2020 to 2023.

[Sam Kelly]

I'm in the midst of really understanding grace and understanding how amazing a personal relationship with Jesus is and understanding the finished works of Jesus. I mean, he on the cross said, it's finished. And I'm like, well, what's finished? You know, I want to know what's finished.

[Joni]

You've had great success in years at a huge church. You're like, you have been in the ministry for a long time when you're thinking these things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Sam Kelly]

I mean, a lot of people ask, well, why is it that that it still appeared like you were successful teaching rules and under the law versus now that you're teaching the gospel and under grace? And I think people kind of like being in control of their own situation and destiny and being able to do something, to earn something, being able to have a transactional relationship with God was a whole lot easier than. And it's finished. And I need to align myself up with what's already finished and just continue to work on my intimacy and my relationship with God. You know, I think preachers like to control people, and I think people like to be in control. And so that could be one of the reasons why it appears to be successful. But, you know, when you talk about prosperity or success, money is not prosperity. Wholeness is. You want to be whole in every area. That's what makes you successful.

[Joni]

That's like the woman with the issue of blood.

[Sam Kelly]

Exactly.

[Joni]

She was whole.

[Sam Kelly]

She was whole.

[Joni]

So every area of our life, every area, that's prosperity.

[Sam Kelly]

That's prosperity. I mean, you can have money and be dying of cancer. You're just a sick man with money, you know, but you have to have all of it. All the slices of the pie need to be available to do that. So I'm teaching this, and I'm convinced of the finished works of Jesus Christ. I'm convinced that. That I don't have to earn my healing. Jesus did that for me. I need to just receive what he's done for me. And then my expression goes from that place, okay, Father, thank you that I'm well. Thank you that I'm healed. Thank you for what your blood has done in the midst of this. And Covid's almost over. I get Covid, and I'm confronted with a lot of things that I really didn't know was there, like approval, addiction. What are they going to say? Will they maybe think that I did something wrong in order to get this, oh, man of faith, where is your faith? Or your faith is weak? And I'm thinking, where is all this coming from? And so I go through the process of COVID And I go through the process like this. All right, this is how you start. I'm healed. I believe I received that, but I thought it was maybe going to be a couple of week journey. And how long will you say that you're healed? How long will you rest in the finished works of Jesus Christ?

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Not seeing it.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. Not seeing it right away. And will you get an understanding of laboring? Because that's a very interesting scripture, you know, labor to rest. And I found out that laboring to rest simply means. It's kind of like when a storm comes and knocks your dish offline, and you don't get the channels on the inside. It's a matter of getting up and just readjusting your dish. And so the labor part is trusting and aligning myself with what's already finished

[Joni]

and thinking not strange.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joni]

This fiery trial is, why do we do that?

[Sam Kelly]

Why do we think it's strange when we go through things? When he said, they that live godly shall suffer persecution. And so this thing hits my body and I'm standing on the word. And throughout that process, you know, the Lord's revealing things like John, chapter nine, who did sin? That this boy was born blind? Nobody. But that my glory might be seen. So I'm becoming empathetic that when I see people go through stuff, don't be so quick to think they did something wrong to deserve this. God may be preparing them for his glory to be seen.

[Jared Isaacman]

Amen.

[Sam Kelly]

And so I get through this and then all of a sudden the blood clots begin to surround my lungs. And I'm thinking, well, I'm healed. And then I look in the mirror and I'm 152 pounds and I'm healed.

[Joni]

Shrinking.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Could you breathe? Could you breathe?

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. I had a friend of mine who's also my doctor, we walked through the process and I had certain treatments that I would, you know, doctor, you got

[Joni]

through the COVID and the blood clots and you're working way through that and you're thinking, okay, get through this. Victory on the other side.

[Sam Kelly]

Victory on the other side. I got through that and shingles was on the other side. And it was a perfect pattern from my spine on my arm to my

[Joni]

sternum, which people that are watching that have had family members or know anything about it is very, very painful. I'm sure you probably weren't even prepared for that.

[Sam Kelly]

I wasn't prepared for it.

[Joni]

It was like, man of God.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. Every 38 seconds there was a pain that would shoot to my brain, would almost knock me out. And I'm thinking, how am I going to bear this? To do this? And so, Father, I thank you that I'm healed. And you talk about your grace being sufficient. I need to know if it's sufficient for me. So, Holy Spirit, show me. Show me. I need to know this if I'm going to preach this. I need to know that it's sufficient for me. And it was. I mean, to just look at the boils. I'm like, oh, my, how is this going to go away? And the pain and even it left some nerve damage. And I had to continue to believe. And so we get through that.

[Joni]

So that was like a three month.

[Sam Kelly]

That was the most painful thing I've ever experienced before in my Life to the point where I asked God, are we okay? You know, I'm moving from I am healed to are we okay? I'm moving from I am healed to the temptation to say, did I do anything wrong? What am I doing? I am now questioning my identity. It's the same thing. When Jesus showed up in the wilderness, he says, if you were the son of God, turn these stones into bread. And Jesus is like, wait a minute. I know who I am. I'm not gonna turn stone into bread just to, you know, prove something to you. And I'm looking at this whole thing happening. And after the shingles was up, I go to get a checkup, and he says, the cancer's back now. That was my second bout with cancer. The cancer is back. And so it's just like, boom, boom.

[April Silas]

It. Boom.

[Sam Kelly]

Like, it was like.

[Joni]

And it was personal.

[Sam Kelly]

It was very personal.

[Joni]

I mean, this is your body.

[Sam Kelly]

Well, this is my body. This is my. My. My. My husband to my wife, my father to my children, my pastor to my church. This was. Now I'm excited about seeing heaven, but not now. You know, not now. And so we. We started. Now, this. This process was a little different because I was trying to avoid the traditional approach of chemo and radiation. So I chose another approach. But before I went to have what I finally did, I went through the treatments. The numbers started changing. I was very hopeful, took a week off. And in one week, it got worse than it was, which it attacked my emotions. We have emotions. And I had to grab my emotions because I was like, what? And my youngest daughter was in the room. And I gotta tell you, as a man, I broke down crying like God, you know, what is this? And I learned the importance of never leaving the wisdom that you gathered through hard times. Don't ever leave it in the wilderness. Bring that wisdom with you, because it's gonna make you better. And like, we were talking about, we don't like to admit, but there's maturity that happens in the midst of discomfort. And I wanted to change my question from lord, why me? To Lord, what do you want me to get out of this? And so after that was over with and that treatment didn't work, I was like, wow. I saw that I am a human and that it was okay.

[Joni]

And Taffy, she really had a word for you that you needed to hear. Your precious.

[Sam Kelly]

Why Taffy? Taffy was so strong through the whole thing. She said, you didn't do anything wrong. Because the temptation was. Let me evaluate to see what I did wrong to deserve this she said it strongly.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Sam Kelly]

She said, you didn't do anything wrong, and now you know what we got to do. And what she was referring to was, all right, let's go and take this procedure. Let's have this operation. It does not say that your faith is weak and you don't have faith. It just says that you need to deal with this this way. And continue to say, I am healed.

[Karen]

Yes.

[Sam Kelly]

And so.

[Joni]

And you had to. You had to follow your peace.

[Sam Kelly]

Yep. My peace was leading me there because it was a procedure that only 350 people had dealt with. And I had an old doctor, 70. 70 years old, who had, you know, he tells you I'm the best in the world. You know that, don't you? And he probably is. And so we went through that. The procedure lasted for four hours, and they had to stop in the middle of it because my insides were. Wouldn't be still. So they had to kind of pause and let that happen. And I got through it, and now we're getting ready to recover. And I heard in my spirit, okay, son, that's it. And I knew I was going to get a time of peace. And now I started gathering in the wisdom from all of those places. And the first place I gathered in wisdom was deliverance from approval. That we cannot help God when we are addicted to approval.

[Joni]

So true. And we especially, especially Internet approval.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah, well, you listen. The Internet is undefeated, and you don't need to try to get approval from the Internet. And then the second thing I saw was I was more empathetic towards people. And when I would see people in a certain way, I would ask, I wonder what it took for them to get into that place right there.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

So that's a mind shift that you previously. I previously held belief that God had to take you through this journey to teach you that.

[Sam Kelly]

Well, God didn't have to take me through that journey. It was the journey I went through that I could gather the wisdom from that. And I'm glad you asked that, because sometimes people will again want to make a new doctrine that says you can't learn nothing until you go through something heavy. But whatever you go through, take the wisdom from it, because that's what life is. You're gonna either do life or it's gonna do you.

[Joni]

Because God is not the author of disease. You know, you said, he's already completed the work at Calvary.

[Sam Kelly]

It's finished.

[Joni]

But that doesn't mean that we won't be affected by things here on this earth. And when we are, we carry him on the inside of us through it. And that whole thing you and I were talking about, that the faith message, if you will, so many times has been misunderstood. Like, almost like a faith and a faith, or. Or you just say it and you close your eyes as to the reality of what's going on. God never said to do that. And that's not real faith, is it?

[Sam Kelly]

You know, life is a journey, and we're here in this life, and stuff happens in this life. But he's already finished it. I mean, he's gone to the end. He knows what it's gonna.

[Jack Armstrong]

What it's like.

[Joni]

That's done.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah, it's done.

[Joni]

It's done.

[Sam Kelly]

Now you're gonna have to choose to live in the realm of. Of the finished. Or you're going to have to choose to live by the circumstances and emotions, negative emotions, directing you different ways, and the fear and the fear of it.

[Joni]

Because, I mean, the fear. 20, 20, 2021, the fear.

[Sam Kelly]

Listen, when fear knocks on the door, the revelation of who you are in Christ says, that's not me anymore. As hard as it is, that's not me anymore. I have the love and a sound mind. That's not me. And it knocks again. That's not me anymore. That was my journey. That's not me anymore. It was almost as if the Satan said, I'm going to wear you down. And I had to say out loud, do you actually think that I'm making these declarations just to see results? I said, it's not just to see results. I'm making these declarations because I believe it.

[Karen]

Amen.

[Sam Kelly]

And something happened on the inside of me. It's that relationship part versus the transaction part. I have a relationship with God. He is good. I don't have to be good in order to get his goodness. He's already good. I'm gonna get his goodness. I don't know when, but it's gonna show up.

[Joni]

Yeah.

[Sam Kelly]

And so we went through that, got out of that situation. I preached New Year's Eve on the pulpit. I was swallowed up by this jacket that I had. And I shared the testimony with my church. The first time they. It was tears all over the place,

[Joni]

including my core healed.

[Brett Baer]

Oh.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh.

[Sam Kelly]

I'd like to thank everybody that was there that night.

[Joni]

Anybody like, I mean, spiritually, physically, emotionally, when you have that kind of vulnerability as a man of God, to say, hey, this is what I went through and God was faithful and he's going to be faithful for you.

[Sam Kelly]

Vulnerability could be the most powerful ministry tool for Today, Yeah, because we have been so afraid to be vulnerable. It's hard for people to receive a lot of what you're saying over a period of time. They hear it, they hear it, they hear it, they hear it. And then they go through. And then they look at your perfect self up there, and you never have no issues up there. And you ain't got no problem with your mate, with your children. Your children are shining angels that are floating around all the time.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Okay, that's me, by the way.

[Sam Kelly]

And it's just really. It becomes a challenge to receive what

[Joni]

you say is the perfect person that isn't perfect. You know, I remember. I'm thinking as you're talking, when your dad went to be with Jesus. And I remember I was out in the front yard, and he had been gone maybe like five or six months. And we used to lay out on the front driveway because the sun would set up that way. I was just laying out there and I was talking to the Lord, and I was like, lord, now, I'm not questioning you, but I have a question. Yeah, but I'm not questioning you, but I'm just saying, like, I wonder, did you really think about. I'm just kind of like, I'm talking to God. This is the way we talk. He wants to have that kind of relationship with you, by the way. And I remember he just said two words to me, trust me. And then, you know, you can fast forward another six to nine months later, I'm back on the driveway, and God has opened some doors. He actually has brought someone into my life. And I'm laying there thanking him for all that he's done. And it's almost like I hear him chuckle. And then I start laughing. I was like, you knew all the time. Because you see time past, present and future simultaneously. And you knew what you were going to do. And you just told me to trust you, and I did. And look what you've done.

[Sam Kelly]

He knows your end.

[April Silas]

He does.

[Sam Kelly]

And you don't. And yeah, he can laugh because it's like, oh, if you only knew what I knew. But you cast your care on him. That means go to God and say. Casting your care means go to God and say, I'm mad at you.

[Joni]

Or cry.

[Sam Kelly]

He can take it.

[Joni]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

How do you trust.

[Sam Kelly's wife]

Trust God.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

When your heart is broken, you.

[Sam Kelly]

You make it to trust God. This. This gets into the labor part. We enter into that rest. It's finished. It's done, it's completed. It can't be undone without.

[Joni]

Without unforgiveness. And bitterness.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. But the forgiveness you hold on turns into bitterness, and it troubles you. It'll get you sick. It'll do some things. But when you trust God, you're saying, lord, I rely on you. And what does labor look like? Father, I know that I'm righteous. So, Father, I declare that I'm the righteousness of God. Father, I know that I'm redeemed. I'm going to sing a song of redemption. Meditating in the word, singing your song, getting with your community, letting them build you up. What are you doing? The storm knocked your satellite dish offline. You're not picking up any of the channels, and you're saying it's a matter of me just getting on the roof and adjusting my satellite dish. I trust you, Lord. I rely on you. I align myself up again with what you have finished. Does it feel good all the time? No. Will it happen when I want it to happen?

[Joni]

No, probably not.

[Sam Kelly]

It's a quality decision. And a decision is an open door to reality. It's a quality decision that I'm going to trust God. Come, hail the high water. And my decision was, lord, you've already done enough for me. If you don't do anything else, I'm going to still trust you and I'm going to still love you. And if I have to die trusting you, what a way to go. So now I've moved from transaction to relationship. And you know, he good, you know he's good. So, you know, you can expect from his goodness to come into your life.

[Joni]

So good.

[April Silas]

I appreciate you just being real. You know, I'm a pastor's kid. We're all from ministry. And I can think of the moment that my dad just cried out to God when my mom was diagnosed with cancer. And he said, God, I need her. The church needs her, and the family needs her. And what we have to realize is our wilderness wisdom affects and impacts generations to come. And that moment in my life just changed me forever. And you can't talk me out of a miracle, but it's because they were real. And, you know, we do have questions for God, but thank God he has answers for us.

[Joni]

And she was like four stage that had metastasized to the liver. And she came home, she did, and chose to get up and make breakfast for April and pretend. I mean, it's just like it was.

[April Silas]

She didn't deny it. You know, I grew up in that moment where that faith movement, which is, thank God for it, but it was a little bit out of balance this time. At times, keep the switch of faith turned on. I thought if I turned off the light, faith was gone from our house. You know, I didn't know. And so, you know, they. She didn't deny her sickness, but she just trusted God.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. See, there's a difference between asking God a question and questioning.

[April Silas]

Exactly.

[Sam Kelly]

Questioning is questioning and doubt. Like, well, if you're so powerful, God, then why did you let this happen?

[Joni]

Exactly.

[Sam Kelly]

Versus Mary asking the question, how can this be, seeing that I know not a man. God wants us to be intelligent and to use our mind and to. To think and ask him questions. Yeah, I want to ask questions. I mean, well, God, if this is my faith, why. Why am I calling it weak? And why am I saying I need to make it stronger? And why am I saying that that didn't happen because my faith is so weak? And he says, I'm glad you asked that question. I spend the next month looking at it and find out. One faith. His faith. His faith is done. It's complete. It's powerful. Now live in the realm of faith. It's his faith that he measured to us. And now we don't have our manufactured faith. We have his faith. And so we got to learn how to live in the realm of the done, of the finished, of the completed that cannot be undone. And even in the midst of the stuff attacking us, I live in the realm of the finish, bro. You want some of me? Bring it on.

[Joni]

That's so cool.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

I was going to say, I think. Don't you think God's okay with our doubts as long as we're bringing those to him and like, having that relational component?

[Sam Kelly]

You remember the guy who said, lord, I believe, but help my unbelief. There was no rebuke that followed that.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Kelly]

He knows who we are.

[Joni]

He can deal with authenticity better. I mean, think about that. He wants to have that kind of relationship.

[April Silas]

He can deal with our emotions.

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah, but we have to deal with our emotions. Sometimes we act like we don't have them.

[Joni]

We have to recognize that he's given us emotions and talk about it and not push those down or pretend they're not there. That's one of the big issues, I think, that happen in the faith movement, if you will. We are.

[Sam Kelly]

We have emotions. He just wants to make sure that emotions don't have us. And we're talking about negative emotions. We don't want negative emotions to have our lives because they will take you somewhere. Emotions or feelings on the inside designed to move you in a direction and he gave those emotions to us so we can enjoy life, enjoy his blessings, and so forth and so on.

[Joni]

Well, your book, the Transformative Power of Grace, you touch on a lot of this. Faith without fear, love without limits. Who needs to read the book?

[Sam Kelly]

Everybody.

[Joni]

That's what real authors say to me. But it will help understand kind of what we're talking about, right?

[Sam Kelly]

Yeah. What we're talking about is, first of all, receiving this grace as a gift and seeing grace not just as a principle or a curriculum, but grace as a person. Jesus, full of grace and truth. And you can tell people who have. They have this relationship with Jesus where peace stands out. I'm good. I'm good. Whether you like me or not, I'm good.

[Joni]

Yeah. And I see the peace. I told you that. I see it in your eyes. I see it in your countenance. And you cannot manufacture that kind of peace after you've gone through something like that. Well, it has been amazing to have you at the table, for you to share your story. We are out of time, but I want you to remember, you don't have to earn what Jesus already gave us. That's what we're talking about. You're loved, you're accepted. You're enough because of him, because of the finished work of the cross. So I want you to receive God's grace. Step into that rest he's prepared for you. If you don't know Jesus, you know, some of you, you've sat here and you have listened. You don't even know why you stopped and listened. But just like something got ahold of you. It's like the Lord is just wooing you and opening your heart to something maybe that you don't understand, but that you need, and that's Jesus. And all you have to do is just call out on his name and say, jesus, I don't understand about all these people, but if you're real, reveal yourself to me. The onus is not on me to prove who he is. He can prove who he is. You pray a sincere prayer, he will reveal himself to you. I've seen him do it time and time again. He loves you so much. Just ask him to come into your heart right now. There's also a prayer line number on the screen. If you don't know how to pray, we have prayer partners that will pray with you. We would love to pray with you. Or if you are dealing with some kind of sickness in your body, because we talked about that today, I want you to call. We want to pray with you as well, the same God that touched Creflo, that led him, that gave him peace, that showed him a path to follow, he can do the same thing for you. The Bible says he's no respecter of persons. He loves you today. Well, I do want to thank Pastor Creflo for joining us. To get a copy of his book and know more about his ministry, visit worldchangers.org, and as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content and let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. And of course you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. But thank you so much for watching, especially those of you that watch for the first time. I just pray that this has blessed you, encouraged you. And you're sitting there, there's just like something in the room I don't understand. That's the beautiful presence of God that's there with you, just letting you know that he loves you. He has a plan for your life. He has a purpose for you to fulfill. So you believe that. Receive it right now in Jesus name. Thank you Creflo. We love you.

[Sam Kelly]

Thank you for having me.

[Joni]

We'll see you next time.

[Rachel Lamb Brown]

Time.

[Joni]

Bye Bye for today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Newt Gingrich]

on News World Podcast. We're celebrating America's 250th birthday and I asked my guests how they're spending their fourth of July.

[Brett Baer]

Bret Baer I will be working. I'll be in Washington because It's a big, big day.

[Newt Gingrich]

Jared Isaacman.

[Jared Isaacman]

I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors, along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

Listen to Newts world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the TR truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Brett Baer]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes. Listen to Armstrong and Yeti on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

As America marks its 250th anniversary, we're looking back at two and a half centuries of rebellion and liberty through the eyes of the heroes who defended it.

[Sam Kelly]

The whole thing about this country is freedom. If we're not careful, we could lose that.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Stories of Courage, we bring you the defining moments of valor that went above and beyond the call of duty. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.