JONI TABLE TALK | JUNE 7th, 2026

Summary

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JONI TABLE TALK | JUNE 7th, 2026 — Real America’s Voice

Podcast Summary by Segment—June 7, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Joni Table Talk centers around spiritual transformation, prophetic evangelism, authenticity in faith, and overcoming internal struggles. It features two major interviews:

• Pastor Greg Devries shares powerful stories from his book, Taking It to the Streets, about street ministry, the impact of prophetic evangelism, deliverance from addiction, and steps to disciple others.
• Pastor Jackson Lemire spotlights his journey of early parenthood, personal failure and restoration, and lessons from his new book, Divided: Breaking Free from the Double Life, focusing on the internal struggle between our old and new selves in the Christian walk.

The roundtable, including hosts Joni Lamb, Rebecca Lamb Weiss, April Simon, Dorothy Newton, Rachel Ann Brown, and guests, weave personal anecdotes, biblical principles, and practical encouragement for listeners.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. Transformation & Prophetic Evangelism with Greg Devries

[02:31–29:25]

The Power of Surrender and a Praying Mother

• Greg Devries describes his upbringing in a religious, yet untransformed, family. His salvation was triggered by his mother’s spiritual awakening. Despite a life of addiction, her persistent prayers played a key role in his eventual radical conversion.
  • Quote: “She was a mother who prayed for you.”—Greg Devries [05:52]
• His transformation was immediate and miraculous, with a complete deliverance from drug and alcohol desires.
  • Quote: “The salvation experience was so powerful. I had no withdrawals, I had no desires.”—Greg Devries [06:06]

Discipleship and Ministry Calling

• Greg’s spiritual foundation solidified at Outreach Ministries, a Christian discipleship program, leading to his ministry call and meeting his wife (now with 12 children and 21 grandchildren).
  • Quote: “Every one of them [my children] know Jesus.”—Greg Devries [08:08]
• Stresses importance of discipleship:
  • “If we had a discipler in our life… that is key, is paramount. Discipleship.”—Greg Devries [08:23]

Prophetic Evangelism—Definition & Importance

• Explains “prophetic evangelism” as spirit-led outreach that moves beyond religious tradition. The prophetic brings God’s specific voice to individuals.
  • Quote: “If we’re evangelizing without a prophetic voice, we’re propagating religion.”—Greg Devries [09:22]
• Encourages blending all gifts for effective ministry:
  • “Prophetic evangelism is putting those together … The prophetic brings the voice of God through us into somebody else’s life.”—Greg Devries [10:15]

Street Ministry—Testimonies of Miraculous Encounters

• Story: On Houston’s Montrose Avenue, following a Holy Spirit prompting led to a divine appointment with two men at a bus stop—one deeply wounded by childhood trauma and bitterness. After persistent Spirit-led nudges, the truth was spoken, resulting in his emotional breakthrough and practical help.
  • Memorable Moment: “He broke. He wept. I mean, started just weeping on the streets on my shoulder.”—Greg Devries [13:00]
• Prodigal Son Reconciliation: Greg recounts his pivotal moment, embraced by his father in an alley after years of addiction—a living “prodigal son” story.
  • “My dad was standing there with tears in his eyes. And he wrapped me and just wrapped around me and kissed me on the cheek…”—Greg Devries [14:45]

Surrender and Deliverance

• Stresses the necessity of full surrender for walking in one’s God-given destiny, describing his own moment of utter helplessness leading to a miraculous change.
  • “I told my mother, I’ll go through this program, but don’t you dare think I’m going into ministry.… I just said, I need your help. And in that moment, transformation came in the room.”—Greg Devries [16:21]
• God works deeper healing beyond addiction; deliverance is more than surface change.
  • “Sin’s like an iceberg.… just coming off the drugs and alcohol allowed the Lord … access to get into the deeper issues.”—Greg Devries [18:10]

Ministry Tools & Encouragement

• Calls listeners to trust God fully in recovery and evangelism.
• Leads in a heartfelt prayer for salvation [19:05–19:57] and for healing [27:52–29:18].
• Encourages ordinary believers to engage in prophetic evangelism: seek God’s voice, start spiritual conversations, and obey the Spirit’s prompts even when it’s uncomfortable.
  • “Prophetic is not always saying. Sometimes it’s just doing—it’s being obedient to the voice.”—Greg Devries [25:18]

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2. Personal Healing, Authenticity, and Restoration with Jackson Lemire

[32:59–60:14]

Jackson’s Early Life and Unplanned Fatherhood

• Grew up in Oklahoma prioritizing sports, until at 17 he became a father.
  • “I was 17 and I found out I was going to be a dad and that just like rocked my world because that was not part of the plan…”—Jackson Lemire [33:43]
• Faced cultural pressure to consider abortion, but God used a preacher on TV (Billy Joe Daugherty) to spark hope and transformation.
  • “Through that I gave my life to Christ and had a totally radical transformation. And then I realized something. My life wasn’t over, I was a new creation.”—Jackson Lemire [37:13]

Overcoming Hardship, Provision & Ministry Calling

• God’s providence: his mowing business exploded, providing for his new responsibilities.
  • “God opened up the windows of heaven…I began hiring my friends…God supernaturally provided.”—Jackson Lemire [38:06]
• Despite early marriage failure, God’s purpose continued, moving him into ministry.
  • “I’m checking all the boxes of disqualifying myself from ministry… but God can use anybody.”—Jackson Lemire [40:00]

Ministry, Authenticity, and Identity

• Divine confirmation of his call to ministry through a vision and prophetic word.
  • Quote: “As he’s praying for me, he retells me my vision that I had that morning… that really gave me goosebumps and chills.”—Jackson Lemire [42:41]
• Early pastoral struggles with imitation and insecurity led to a critical piece of advice:
  • “Quit trying to be all these guys you’re watching or hearing on TV or radio and be you.” —Advice from Jackson’s father [45:10]
• Opening up about personal struggles with authenticity led to greater church growth and genuine connections.
  • “Our church started to grow because so many people were like, you are real…There was a relatability and authenticity is very attractive, especially to our generation.”—Jackson Lemire [47:29]

Struggles, Duality, and Victory

• His book, Divided, unpacks the inner war between our old and new natures, illustrated by Simon Peter's biblical journey.
  • “Jesus continually refers to Simon Peter as Simon Peter, because…although he’s calling Peter out, Simon is still there. And yet God still uses him.”—Jackson Lemire [51:57]
• Stresses the need to recognize, face, and bring the internal struggle into the light—with God and other trusted people, for true healing from cycles of sin.
  • Memorable Quote: “Martin Luther said, ‘The old me was drowned at water baptism, but that bastard is one good swimmer.’”—Jackson Lemire [53:00]

Healing, Accountability & Freedom

• Genuine accountability (not social media) is essential for freedom:
  • “Facebook is not the place to get healed. That is just like, not the place.”—Jackson Lemire [55:00]
• God’s forgiveness is immediate; healing often requires both confession to God and to a trustworthy friend.
  • “You can be forgiven of your sin, but not healed of your sin. At the exact same time…”—Jackson Lemire [54:20]

Salvation and Restoration

• Repeated encouragement for listeners to accept Christ ("the best thing you can ever do") and practical exhortations for next steps: join a local church, seek Christian community, and continue growing.
• Compares the post-failure responses of Peter (restoration through repentance) and Judas (remorse without repentance).
  • Quote: “Judas died in his sin. Peter…his remorse led to repentance and that repentance led to restoration…”—Jackson Lemire [59:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Greg Devries on prophetic obedience: “If you can walk in the Spirit, you can walk out of the Spirit.” [11:41]
• Greg Devries on deliverance: “Sin’s like an iceberg. Just 10% of us outside of the water, 90% is inside of us…” [18:09]
• Rebecca Lamb Weiss: “You never know how one smile, one conversation could literally change the trajectory of somebody’s life.” [03:30]
• Jackson Lemire on personal struggle: “In one moment we can act like an angel, and then in the next moment we can act like a beast of the field.” [49:55]
• April Simon: “The enemy knows your name but calls you by your sin. God knew your sin and calls you by your name.” [56:38]
• Jackson Lemire on repentance: “Falling is inevitable. Getting back up, that’s the key.” [60:11]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:31 - Start of in-depth conversation with Pastor Greg Devries

• 05:05 - Mother's persistent prayers and Greg’s salvation story

• 09:22 - The role and need for prophetic evangelism

• 13:00–14:24 - Houston street ministry story (“He broke. He wept.”)

• 14:45 - “Prodigal son” story of reconciliation with father

• 16:21 - Surrender moment in discipleship program

• 19:05–19:57 - Prayer for salvation with Greg Devries

• 20:47–23:06 - New Orleans stories: deliverance and reconciliation

• 25:18 - How to begin with prophetic evangelism

• 27:52–29:18 - Healing prayer for listeners

• 32:59–34:09 - Jackson Lemire: Early life, unexpected fatherhood

• 37:13 - TV preacher brings hope; radical conversion

• 42:41 - Calling to ministry confirmed through prophetic word

• 45:10 - “Be you” — advice for young preachers

• 49:10 - Motivation for writing Divided

• 51:57 - The internal struggle: Simon vs. Peter analogy

• 53:00 - Martin Luther quote on persistent old nature

• 54:20 - The importance of accountability for healing

• 56:38 - Enemy vs. God: how we are identified

• 57:15–58:24 - Jackson leads prayer for salvation

• 59:28 - Peter vs. Judas: restoration through repentance

• 60:11 - “Falling is inevitable. Getting back up, that’s the key.”

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Takeaways and Application

• Persistent, spirit-led outreach can change lives; don’t underestimate the power of one conversation.
• Discipleship is essential—seek out mentors and be willing to mentor when called.
• Freedom from addiction and shame is possible when surrendering fully to God and allowing His process of inner healing (“deliverance”).
• Be authentic in your spiritual life—genuine vulnerability and accountability foster healing and community.
• The process of growth is ongoing—we continually choose daily who we will reflect: our old self (Simon) or our new self in Christ (Peter).

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Resources & Next Steps

• Books: Taking It to the Streets — Greg Devries; Divided: Breaking Free from the Double Life — Jackson Lemire
• Websites:
  • Greg Devries: thewellfwc.org
  • Jackson Lemire: jacksonlemire.com
• Free Gift: Book of John (for listeners who prayed for salvation—call-in info given in episode)
• Get Connected: Find a local church, seek discipleship, and follow Joni Table Talk on social media for continued encouragement.

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“He wants to use you to be a part of his supernatural plan… unlock miracles in your life and for those around you.” —Host (possibly Joni Lamb) [29:26]

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Transcript

[Greg Devries]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

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[Jackson Lemire]

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[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

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[Jackson Lemire]

in this world, stop with Mint.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.

[Jackson Lemire]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

But that's weird.

[Jackson Lemire]

Okay, one judgment anyway.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Greg Devries]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan taxes and fees extra.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

See full [e-mail] why should you listen

[Greg Devries]

to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring.

[Jack Armstrong]

Lotta news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't wanna live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Greg Devries]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[April Simon]

Yes.

[Greg Devries]

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[Jack Armstrong]

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your PODC podcasts.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

So what happens when you don't ignore that inner voice and you choose to step out in faith? Well, today's guest has seen lives changed through unexpected conversations and bold obedience. He's here to show how anyone can learn to recognize those moments and step right into them from his book, Taking it to the Streets. But before we get to that, of course. Joining me around the table is April Simon.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Hey, there.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

How are you?

[April Simon]

Doing great. And, you know, we got to put feet to our faith. That's part of it. And, you know, we got a.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Taking it to.

[April Simon]

That's it. I would sing it, but I'm not a singer.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Dorothy Newton, how are you? I'm doing so good. You know, I'm all about that street work. You know, that's where we seek and save the lost. That's where we can be a true instrument to God's purpose and plan for us here on earth. So. And we can bring them to church? Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Jackson Lemire]

We can get them out the streets into the church.

[April Simon]

That's right.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Rachel Ann Brown, how are you?

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I'm good. And I love this guest today and what he's gonna be talking about. So many people need Jesus and they're just waiting for us all around. And you never know how one smile, one conversation could literally change the trajectory of somebody's life.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

So true. So true. Rebecca Lamb Weiss, you've interviewed our guest.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yes, I'm very excited to be here. I'm excited to get into these stories of prophetic evangelism. You guys are wanting to stay tuned because it is gonna change your life. Honestly.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Is it a crazy story?

[April Simon]

There is no. There's tons of them. We won't be able to go through all of them.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Okay. All right. From airplanes to subways to streets and crowded cities, Pastor Greg Devries has seen God move in miraculous ways by simply following the leading of the Holy Spirit and saying, yes. Well, today he's here to share some of those incredible stories and show us how prophetic evangel is for everyone. So let's start at the beginning. Take us back. Growing up, Greg?

[Greg Devries]

Yeah, growing up. I grew up in a wonderful family, a good American family, and we attended church, but nobody was born again. Nobody was saved. Nobody met the spirit of God. They had had religion and knowledge. And my mother was watching Christian television, and on that, yes, watching Christian television. And she received salvation and the baptism of the Spirit all in one moment. She got up, went to pastor and told him what was going on in his life and her life. And he said, I think you're going through a midlife crisis.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Oh, no.

[Greg Devries]

And he didn't know how to handle it. And so she ended up going to a Pentecostal spirit filled church on Sunday nights and met the Lord and got discipled and trained and started to pray for us. 14 years later, Joni, 14 years later, I got saved. I got born again and gone. Through some drugs and alcohol and a lot of failures in my life. And she had prayed me through. I can remember coming in the house in the middle of the night, sneaking in and pulling that door and it be 2, 3, 4 o' clock in the morning. It'd squeak louder because I was pulling it trying to sneak in. And would go in and she would be at the couch praying sometimes and she'd never get up. And I thought I snuck past her. Well, lo and behold, I asked her years later, after I'd been born again, I said, mom, I used to sneak in. She said, oh, I knew you came home. She said, I was praying for you not just to get home safe, but I was praying for you to get saved. So she was a mother who prayed for you.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

I knew you got saved.

[Greg Devries]

I was 24 years old. I'd been addicted to drugs and alcohol since I was about 16 to 17 years old.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Wow.

[Greg Devries]

And yeah, so I was 24.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Was it hard to kind of change that lifestyle after having been in it for so long?

[Greg Devries]

The salvation experience was so powerful. I had no withdrawals, I had no desires. I've not desired or had an interest in any drug or alcohol.

[Jackson Lemire]

That was a miracle.

[Greg Devries]

It was, it was a transformation.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Wow.

[Greg Devries]

Absolutely.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

And so how were you different after that?

[Greg Devries]

I think that it started to stir a hunger and a desire and an interest. I became much more selfless. Instead of thinking about myself immediately, it was other people. It was other people. How can I touch other people? I didn't have the language for it, but I knew I was being called into the ministry now.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Didn't you go to some kind of ministry? Outreach ministry. Like a school for Christian discipleship.

[Greg Devries]

Interesting what you said. It is Outreach ministries. That's what it's called. And the founder is now deceased with his son in law and daughter overseas. A 13 month Christian discipleship program. Kind of the scale of a teen challenge type ministry. And that's where I got discipled, trained and equipped and called to the ministry.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Okay, so tell us about some of the experiences that you had there that would lead you to where you are now.

[Greg Devries]

Oh, that's so good. That's how I met my wife. It's an all men's program, but I asked them, I was so hungry for the Lord, I said, can I stay up an hour later?

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

I thought you were going to say, because I was so hungry for a wife.

[Greg Devries]

That was part of it. And I knew I needed that. And so I would ask if I could stay up an hour later and get up an hour Earlier. And so when I was staying an hour later, one of my roommates came underneath the bunk bed, and we're seeking the Lord and reading the scripture with a flashlight. And he said, I have a sister you need to meet. And I said, well, I said, do

[Jackson Lemire]

you have a picture of her?

[Greg Devries]

And he had a picture, and I knew it. I said, that's the girl right there. And so for two or three days, he was saying. I was saying to him, hey, brother in law, we're going to spend Christmas together, Easter together. And he said, I made a huge mistake. She's been dating a guy for five years. And that's when I first learned informed intercession. And so I started to pray and started to pray, and sure enough, she's my wife. And we have the 12 children and 21 grandchildren. Blessed us.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

That's a lot.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Y' all jump in over here.

[April Simon]

Be bad 12. Because I love what you told us in the back, that every one of them know Jesus.

[Greg Devries]

Every one of them, every one of

[April Simon]

his family, because of a praying mama.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Do you think this generation is missing that key element of discipleship? Like that's what's needed to change the church?

[Greg Devries]

Rachel, I think you're spot on. He said, go and make disciples. Make what? You haven't been made. It is so important not just to attend, to be attentive and to have a relationship. Elisha had had Elijah, and look what happened to him. He got a double portion out of it. We could be so much further along in our walks with the Lord if we had a discipler in our life. And that is key, is paramount. Discipleship.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

How does somebody, especially young people that are watching that, say, I want a mentor, I want to be discipled. I want to be invested and poured into, but I don't know where to go or how to find that.

[Greg Devries]

Yeah, well, I think that this always in the prayer life, but I think that, hey, tap on somebody's shoulder, start somewhere, you know, just say, hey, I'm looking for more time. Can you spend time with me? And I would say to the older generation, turn around and look and see who is there that reminds you of you. Or you see potential in them, reach out and touch somebody and lead them into that. Discipleship, like I said, is paramount. Absolutely.

[April Simon]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I think that's a big. Okay, so we're talking about prophetic evangelism. What does that mean?

[Greg Devries]

Well, let's just say this, that if there's not prophetic, are we really getting the voice out there? The Scripture teaches us if somebody does have sin in their heart and they're not living with the Lord. They really can't hear the Lord and the Lord can't hear them. So God in his mercy, all the way back to Moses is Moses said, I would that all the Lord's people would be prophets. That's what he said in numbers 1129. And he's the most meek man on the face of the earth. And lo and behold, it's the meek that inherit the earth. And so the Lord has been waiting for a prophetic generation. But if we're evangelizing without a prophetic voice, we're propagating religion. We're just giving them something dry. We're just giving them something customs and, you know, phylacteries in essence of what they can put on and do. We need to have that voice of the Lord. And that's the Spirit, the testimony of Jesus. Any of the testimonies that I would have to share are literally to exhort other people to do the same thing. Because the testimony of Jesus, spirit of prophecy. And so it releases that. And so that gives people the sense of destiny. How can you get saved without the comprehension that you have a destiny in the midst of it? What would it be worth in the midst of it? So prophetic evangelism is putting those together. We talk about the five fold ministry, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher. And fold is a cooking term. It's when you fold ingredients together and before you know it, you don't see the prophet, you don't see the evangelist, you don't see the pastor. It's all working together. So I think that it has to blend in the midst of it. And so the prophetic is something that just literally brings about the desire to not only but the desire to reach out with others. It's the voice. He said, behold, I stand at the door and knock. He said, if anyone hears my voice, a lot of times you heard people just quoted this, just opened the door. But he says, hear my voice. So the prophetic brings the voice of God through us into somebody else's life.

[April Simon]

You know, I can think of that scripture. It reminds me of my dad before he was saved at 17, his friend, who was that person on the street that encouraged him to know Jesus, Daddy always said, no, no, no. And then one night he was walking home by himself and he said, God, if you're real, if you really will answer me, I'll serve you that one man brought him to church and he got saved. But it was because one man chose to keep saying, you Know God loves you. He's got a plan for you. He pulled out the giftings on the inside of him.

[Greg Devries]

So good, so true.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

What are some stories when you're out on the streets witnessing the people evangelizing?

[Greg Devries]

Well, we were just talking about Houston earlier in Montrose Avenue. We're walking down the street, and as we're out just doing some street ministry, and we're walking down, there's two guys sitting on the bus station, bus stop bench there. And I felt like the Holy Spirit said, speak to them, you know, say something. Ask them if they need a ride. And I thought, well, of course they need a ride. They're sitting on the bus station. They're waiting for a ride. Didn't make sense to me. So I kept walking. And all of a sudden I realized I just walked out of the Spirit. Now, if you can walk in the Spirit, you can walk out of the Spirit. And so I turned around and went back and said, you guys need a ride? And I said, man, we do. The bus. Last bus just left. They missed it. So we turned around, we walked them back to the car. And Holy Spirit told me to say to the guy that I was with, to tell him not to. Yeah, to tell him that he had bitterness in his heart. And I thought, well, there's a conversation piece, you know, and how do I do that? So I went around the hole, hey, how are you doing? Started talking to him, and finally I said, you know, there's a possibility you might have bitterness in your heart. And he yelled at me, screamed at me, was mad at me. Stage two, we're going down the road, and the Holy Spirit says, telling me that's bitterness in his heart. And I tried to go around the whole nice thing, thus saith the Lord. And he yelled and screamed at me. Again. He was mad. And I thought, well, that obviously has bitterness. Third time, the Holy Spirit said, tell him he has bitterness in his heart. So I said, you have bitterness in your heart. He broke. He wept. I mean, started just weeping on the streets on my shoulder. Long story short, he said, hey, I'm in trouble. He said, I don't have anywhere to live. I don't have anywhere to work. I don't have anywhere, you know, do any of these things go to church? And so some people walked up that were out there on the streets with us, and lo and behold, the guy gave them somewhere to live. He gave them a job, and he took him to church the next morning. But his story was this. His mother was a missionary, and she would always go on missions trips. And she was never at home and never took them on Sunday mornings. And so one Sunday she said, hey, I'll be back at such and such time and we will go for a picnic. You and your sister will go for a picnic. Mom never showed up. Never showed up, never showed up. 12:30, 12:40, 12:50. And all of a sudden the sister said, hey, I'm just going to go across the street and play in the park. And she runs across the street, gets hit by a car. She's dead. Mom pulls in right after that. If mom would have. In his heart, if mom would have been there at 12, this would have never happened. And in that one moment, that voice of the Lord, that one moment, he got literally set free. The next morning, down in the 9th, the 4th Ward, I think it is there he was at a church. I went down to see him and he was greeting out the door. He got totally involved in the church and they called for somebody to go on the super bus to go out and pick up children. And he said, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm just standing here. He said, here, you greet. I'm going to go win children for Jesus. So totally got to live in my suffering.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I told you the stories are so good. I wanted you to share the story with you and your father. That prodigal son moment with that reconciliation where he welcomed you with his arms

[April Simon]

because it's so good.

[Greg Devries]

Yeah. So I was in the last and alcohol addiction. And in that moment I was separated. I was just lost and I was in a two week binge. I had just gone to Atlanta, Georgia to try to get a job and got more addicted there and just into it two weeks out. I'm in essence homeless. I don't have anywhere to stay of my own. And I just woke up one morning and just had this strong impression, probably through my mom's prayers is I need to call my dad. I need to call him at the shoe store where he was in Naples, Florida. And so I called him up and he said, meet me in the back alley. And I thought, oh boy, that doesn't sound too good, you know, I mean, here's a guy who's totaled cars, stolen money, I mean everything. And so I went and when I got there, nervous, uncertain what I was going to experience, My dad was standing there with tears in his eyes. And he wrapped me and just wrapped around me and kissed me on the cheek and just held me right there. And he told me, he said, greg, we can't help you, but we Will find you, get help. And at that moment, that was my prodigal son experience, is that I literally lived that out with my dad and coming back to him and embracing me. And I think that was a huge. Even before wasn't saved yet, but I think that was the entrance door into salvation.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Wow, that's great. You know, when you were talking earlier about salvation and, you know, destiny and all of that, what we've talked about this quite a bit, we talked about it yesterday, is that people pray this salvation prayer, right? And if they die, they're gonna go to heaven, right? But they don't surrender for their destiny on earth. They don't surrender. They don't say, okay, God, here I am, take my life. When was that moment for you?

[Greg Devries]

Yeah, that moment for me was when I got dropped off at Outreach Ministries of Alabama. My parents had driven me up. And we're standing outside of the building and I told my mother, I said, I'll go through this program, but don't you dare think I'm going into ministry. I mean, I just wasn't there, but they dropped me off.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

That's the one thing you never say, folks. You never tell God what you're not going to do.

[Greg Devries]

That's exactly right. Exactly right. And so it was a. I got dropped off on a Saturday and it was a Tuesday. I was lying in my bunk bed and I did not know the prayer to pray. I didn't have the language. I didn't know John 3:16, and I didn't know anything. And I just said, I need your help. And in that moment, transformation came in the room. There's just everything started to shift. Then I realized, you know, the Holy Spirit is a helper. So I guess help would be a short term of his name. Right? And Holy Spirit encountered him as to that. But it was there. I was in a place very fortunate that I didn't have self will, didn't have good decisions in my life. I was in a discipleship zone. And I think when you surrender and submit to what you're saying, Rachel, and you start going through the process or a spiritual covenant in your life when you submit there, that teaches you and trains you to submit to God. And so that process allowed me to develop a good solid foundation of submission to the will of God. And, you know, the word obedience has three middle letters, is die. And that program taught me and learned how to die to myself. And so when I came to time of obedience, dying to myself wasn't an issue. It was something I knew how to do. And I think that's where the surrender comes in.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

How important do you think those that are watching right now, struggling with addiction, how important do you think it is that God be attached to that story of freedom?

[Greg Devries]

100%. Absolutely.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Talk about that.

[Greg Devries]

Yeah. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Right. And there you are only addicted to drugs and alcohol to help medicate or to help eliminate some of the pain there. It's really. Sin's like an iceberg. Just 10% of us outside of the water, 90% is inside of us. And this went back to coming off of the drugs and alcohol allowed the Lord the process, the access to get into the deeper issues in my life, the insecurities, the jealousies, the low self esteem, just the challenges in life there. And so I think that that's so important that their Christ, once he gets through that, there's a deeper work he has to do inside of us. And I think that's what I would call what a lot of people don't recognize anymore. It's called a level of deliverance, you know, Joel, chapter two. Calling upon the name of the Lord and you shall be not saved, but delivered.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

That's good. Would you take a moment, Greg? And for those that don't know the Lord, would you just pray a prayer? Let us repeat after you.

[Greg Devries]

Yes, would love to. Let's pray. I want you to pray this. Lord Jesus today. Today could be that day for me, that I could be born again and I could be made set free. And Jesus, I just have to trust you right now.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I just have to trust you right now.

[Greg Devries]

And welcome you to do the work that only you can do.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

The work that only you can do.

[Greg Devries]

I thank you for the testimonies I've heard.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I thank you for the testimonies I've heard.

[Greg Devries]

And I believe that can happen in my life.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I believe that can happen in my life.

[Greg Devries]

So I want to ask you, forgive me of all my sins, wrongdoings, the ones I remember and the ones I can't.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

And the ones I can't.

[Greg Devries]

And I trust you to forgive me of my sins and bring salvation to

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

my life and bring salvation to my life.

[Greg Devries]

In Jesus name, in Jesus name, Amen.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Amen.

[Greg Devries]

Amen.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

We'll stay right there. We'll be right back with Greg right after this. Some books deserve to be held, cherished, remembered. This book is more than that. It's a place to meet God. Every verse invites you to slow down to listen, along with a journal that offers a quiet space for your prayers, your questions, Your journey for moments of stillness, for words that matter. Order your Bible and journal bundle now. All right, we're right back. Rebecca, you say there are more stories we hadn't heard.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yes. So I think the one about the guy that you found, I think he was drinking and you helped him reconcile with his family.

[Greg Devries]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. That was in New Orleans. Dorothy knows New Orleans. It's down in the.

[Jackson Lemire]

In the.

[Greg Devries]

Down by the St. Louis Cathedral down there. And so this guy was being ministered to by some of our teenagers we had on the streets. And he just kind of froze, just literally froze. So they called me down and I went down and said, what's going on? He said, he can't walk, he can't move. And his name was Coniz and he's got a trench coat on. He's been on the streets in New Orleans for six months. He has a family, has a wife, he has parents, but he's 60 miles away from home. He got drunk one night and stayed there for six months.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Wow.

[Greg Devries]

And now he's locked. He said, I can't move. I said, are you sure? I said, yeah. This may sound strange, but stranger things have happened. I felt like the Lord said, just go down and pray for his feet and unlock the shackles. So I prayed for his feet and unlocked the shackles and we started walking. I said, we're going to take care of.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

And those were spiritual checks.

[Greg Devries]

Exactly. Thank you. Spiritual shackles. And so we started walking through the parking lot and he stopped at a big garbage can out in the middle of the parking lot behind Jack's Brewery there. And I said, no, no, come on, Kanish, we got to keep moving. Got to keep moving. And he said, wait a minute. And he took out a bottle of vodka and a can of a tall boy of beer, one of those big cans, and he put them in the garbage can. I was like, wow, this guy's really getting set free, you know, and a homeless that has alcohol, you know, and he's throwing it away. But I reached in, had a word of wisdom come in. The Lord said, pour it out, because the next homeless guy is going to think God bless with it in there. And so we got him 60 miles away to his parents house. And we're going back in this Cajun country and it's this new world to me back here. You know, we're driving in, there's one house with a light on. And it was his parents house. And we knocked on the door. Oh, Connie's would have been probably mid-20s, you know, maybe pushing 30, but that's where he wanted to go, back to his parents house. And so we pull in, we get to the door, knock on the door, and his dad pulls in and he's African American, he's Cajun, and so open up the door. And I heard his mother on the phone and she says, he's home, he's home. And she said, how? Because I know he's home. She said, white man brought him home. That's how I know it's the Lord. And so it was a neat thing of getting him there. But then all of a sudden we had this relationship. Even amongst the relational tension, it was connected and the spirit of God just filled the room. It was just a beautiful time.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Oh, w. When you were in New Orleans on Bourbon street and the preacher's daughter, what happened with that?

[Greg Devries]

Okay, yeah, the preacher's daughter. And so we were doing an outreach for Mardi Gras and we do that every year. We take people down to street ministry.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

I can't believe we actually do that, by the way.

[Greg Devries]

Mardi Gras. Yeah, we just did. We had 130 people just a few weeks ago down there on the street. Yeah. So I'm struggling that day. I'm facilitating a lot of ministry. I'm sure all of us know what that can be like. And I find myself wondering, do I even have a prophetic gift? You know? And I truly believe that if you walk according to the will of God, the scripture says the Holy Spirit will severally will give you individually give you gifts. But I'm struggling with it. And I said, lord, I just need to know that I have a prophetic gift, you know. And so we went out on the streets that day. And I'm walking up the Bourbon street, it's packed with people and crowded. And I see a young girl over on the other side of the street and a guy with her. And she drunk. I mean, she is drunk on Cooter Brown's twin sister. She is. She's mad bad, can't stand up. And so I walk over to where it's at and I looked at the guy and said, I'm a pastor, do you mind if I pray for her? And she just fell to the ground. And he did this number. So obviously, you know, he has a Catholic background. And I went down not knowing what I was going to say. And then I just heard the Lord say to her and want me to say to her, I know how you feel. I'm so sorry that your father was so harsh on you. You know, if your father is a pastor at a certain church and started going through all this pain and sorrow that she had experienced with that, and she is so inebriated and all of a sudden she turns around, she pops up and she's totally sober. She said, how did you know my dad was a pastor? How did you know? This happened to me, that happened to me. I said, I didn't know. And then that's how I got to enter. That's the cool thing about the prophetic, we don't know, but then we can introduce him to the one who does know. And so she sobered up, got set free, and walked away from it.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Praise God. So how long have you been doing this now, this prophetic evangelism?

[Greg Devries]

I would say it would go back to probably the late 90s. The late 90s? Yeah.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

And so for people watching that would like to do something like this.

[Jackson Lemire]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

How would you encourage them?

[Greg Devries]

I would encourage at first to really pray and ask God to lead you to the right people. And that's spirit led evangelism. That's prophetic in of itself. Prophetic is not always saying. Sometimes it's just doing it's being obedient to the voice. And I would encourage you to look at John chapter four. You said it earlier, Joni, you said about conversations in these. And that's what Jesus had with the woman at the well was a conversation. And he's sitting and he's waiting for the right time. And so he sits down at the well, the lady comes up, he asks her a question. He didn't start right off with, do you know who I am? Do you know John 3:16? He didn't do all that stuff, just a conversation. And he got her interested, got her involved. And then she asked him in verse 10, it's really interesting. She asked him, you know, where would you get this water from? And in verse 10, he says, if you knew, now there's only two people in the picture. He said, if you knew who it was was talking to you, you would have asked him. Third person, he said you would have asked him and he would have given you something to drink. I'm thinking, wait a second, there's only two people here. Why didn't he say, you would have asked me and I would have given you? Because that's the key is letting the third person of the Trinity speak through you. The one who dwells inside of you and resides inside of you. How many times have we walked away thinking I should have, could have, wish I would have said something. But it didn't make sense. And then what does he ask her? Go call your husband. Makes no sense to the whole scenario of the scene. And she said, I don't have a husband. He said, that's right. You've had five. And the one you're with right now is not your husband.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

That's what really got her.

[Jackson Lemire]

That's what got her.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth.

[Jackson Lemire]

That's right.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Wow.

[Greg Devries]

Yeah. Spirit of truth. And that truth, and only the truth, will set you free.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

What would you say to someone who's new and I guess practicing, like, the prophetic and maybe doesn't feel confident or like, what happens if I don't say the right thing or it's not accurate?

[Greg Devries]

Okay, that's so good. Let's look at prophecy. According to 1 Corinthians 14, the end result of prophecy is to edify, comfort, and exhort. And we can do that right here at this table without even being led by the Holy Spirit. If you're faithful in little things, he'll make you steward of bigger things. So if you tend to say, I want to be a more edifying, comforting, and encouraging person in everyday situations and just doing the right things and being kind, which leads people to repentance. There's actions that we can do, just little things we can do, and if we're faithful in those, then we'll become stronger in those.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

I wonder if there's somebody watching right now that you need healing in your body. I wonder if you'd just take a moment. Greg, just as you feel led by the Holy Spirit and pray for someone who needs healing right now.

[Greg Devries]

Lord, I thank you so much that you know what's going on in each body, because it's your temple. And Lord, I pray grace over the temple right now. The same as you said, can tear it down in three days or raise it back up. You care about everybody and everybody. And so, Lord, I'm praying for now the one that has that kink and that damage in their neck, Lord, that is causing them restraint and hardship and difficulty. And, Lord, they're in constant chronic pain. I speak to chronic pain right now. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, be released from the body. And Lord, I pray for the one that has the lower back and the one that has the left shoulder and the one that their eyes are just growing dim, literally growing dim. Lord, I speak a release of the gift of the Holy Spirit to minister healing, restoration, renewal in their bodies, even in their spirits. Lord, Father, I pray for the ones who have been damaged at a young age and didn't even know that they had something happen to them and can't even remember it, Lord, that you'll go in, you'll take that damn out of them and you'll release them, Lord God, into the fullness of who and what you've called them to do and to be. So, Father, we thank you for the healing of the Lord. We thank you that your word, your prophetic word, releases healing and allows us to walk in freedom in Jesus mighty name. Amen.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Everybody said amen. Amen. The book taking to the streets. Who needs to read it?

[Greg Devries]

Everybody.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Everybody. Well, we're out of time today. But I want you to remember, just like Jesus, the Father wants to speak to you, move through your life and show you what he's doing. He wants to use you to be a part of his supernatural plan and of course, unlock miracles in your life and for those around you. If you're watching today and you need prayer, please call that number on your screen. We have amazing prayer partners that are standing by ready to pray for you. I also want to thank Pastor Rick for joining us. To get a copy of his book, know more about his ministry, visit thewellfwc.org as always, make sure to follow us on our social media, subscribe to our YouTube channel and listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. Thank you so much for watching. If you prayed that salvation prayer, call us. We love to send you the Book of John, our free gift to you and I'm so excited about this journey that you're about to begin. God bless you. We love you. We'll see you next time. Bye bye for today. Hey everyone, it's Olivia Culpo and I can't wait to tell you all about Abercrombie's new summer collection. All their new dresses in colorful swim feel perfect for a Euro summer. And Abercrombie has a new 100% linen collection. It's the perfect mix of looking put together and elevated with the lightness and comfort of linen. Shop Abercrombie this summer in the app, online and in stores.

[Greg Devries]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring.

[Jack Armstrong]

A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Greg Devries]

How about something about a comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Greg Devries]

Yes. Listen to Armstrong. You getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio

[Jack Armstrong]

app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Turn someday into Right now with Buddy by Jake Radio. Non stop workout music and expert tips 24 7.

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Search body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I heart radio.

[Greg Devries]

Woody came as fast as I could. It's been too long.

[Jack Armstrong]

Cowboy from Disney and Pixar. So that's Lily Pad.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

What are you, some sort of old man toy?

[Jackson Lemire]

What?

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

She thinks you're old because you're Bald.

[Jack Armstrong]

Woody on June 19th.

[Greg Devries]

Toys are for play.

[Jackson Lemire]

Tech is for everything.

[Jack Armstrong]

Toy Story is back.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

I want to talk to you.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Device the long toys.

[Greg Devries]

I responded. I have plastic fake fingers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Featuring Taylor Swift's all new song. I knew it. I knew you available now. No way.

[Greg Devries]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested only in theaters June 19. Tickets available now.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Well, have you ever felt pulled in two different directions? Like you were supposed to do one thing but ended up doing the opposite instead? The reality is that there is a battle that's happening inside each of us. But the good news is we can break that cycle. And today's guest is here to tell us how. Welcome to Joni Table Talk. Friends from the table, I'm your host, Rachel Lamb Brown, and I'm here with my co host, April Simons. How are you?

[April Simon]

I am doing great. And what a great topic to talk about it because we all experience this.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Absolutely. And please welcome our special guest, Jackson Lemire. Welcome to the show.

[Jackson Lemire]

Thanks for having me on.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

We're super excited. You have a new book out called Divided and we're gonna get into that. But just take us back to the beginning. Tell us about life growing up and a little bit of your testimony.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, you know, I grew up in Oklahoma right outside Tulsa, and basketball was my world. That's what I did from being little and I was a very good athlete and was planning on playing college basketball. That was kind of like the, you know, the dream, the ultimate dream. That was the dream. And, you know, I went to church to youth group. But that was primarily because that's where girls were.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Would you say you were like raised in the church there?

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, yeah, I was raised in the church. You know, I was familiar and went to church and grew up in a great family, you know, things like that. But my junior year, I was 17 and I found out I was going to be a dad and that just like rocked my world because that was not part of the plan, you know, that wasn't a part of the plan. And internally I felt like, you know, my life is over. You know, I was 17, she was 16. And you know, my friends, wise sages, they confirmed your life is over, man, you're 17 year old, 17. I mean, you can imagine, right? And it was rough, it was really tough and that was a really low, low point. But it was through that that God got ahold of me, showed me his goodness and his grace. And you know, today a 16 year old daughter who's driving, which is my Fraser's prey. 16 year old and she already got a ticket.

[April Simon]

Oh my goodness.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Don't tell all her secrets on tv, guys. Was there ever a conversation or a thought ever in the process of like maybe terminating the pregnancy?

[Jackson Lemire]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, went to church, knew right from wrong. But you know, sometimes when you're desperate, you do desperate things. And so all of my friends were like, this is not even an option. You have to force her to have an abortion. That was their terminology. And what was the crazy part was I was in an environmental science class and this was right after like everyone found out, you know, the news and the teacher, she did her thing about science. And the last five minutes of the class spent time talking about teen pregnancy, which I was just like, I know who she's, you know, it was kind of an obvious. In a classroom of 15 people and gave all the stats about how teen pregnancy ruins the lives of the two teenagers, but it also ruins the life of the child and how that child is more likely to have all these different struggles and all this stuff. And so, you know, I felt like my life was over. My friends were telling me my life was over. Now I have stats to verify my life, her life, the kids life, you know, if it was up in the air. And then she emphasizes how abortion is a very good option because it's not fair to bring a baby into the world to have all these struggles, to be, you know, kids raising kids and all this stuff. And so I left that class really, you know, like, this is not good. You know, this is not good. But I was watching TV one night and a preacher Came on from Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billy Joe Doherty.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Oh, yeah, thank you Jesus for those preachers preaching on TV right now. Christian tv.

[Jackson Lemire]

This was before Netflix and Hulu, so I was scrolling local tv, no idea what he was talking about, preaching about, but he said something that kind of sparked a little hope in me and I started driving to his church. It was about 40 minutes from where I lived every Sunday night. And after many Sundays of driving there, I gave my life to Christ and had a totally radical transformation. And then I realized something. My life wasn't over, but I was a new creation. And God had a plan and a purpose for me and my soon to be daughter and that God would provide the needs that we'd have. And yeah, so that was a wild.

[April Simon]

So how did you. How did you actually pick up from that place? Was it hard? Was it difficult? I mean, you obviously kept the baby a wonderful daughter now, but how did you actually get through it at that moment?

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't easy. What's funny is my very first business I ever started, I was 15, just mowing yards. You know, my mom would drive me and she'd sit in the vehicle while I mowed yards. And. And that summer, after I found out I was going to be a dad, it was like God opened up the windows of heaven and I had, because I had been mowing yards just as a side thing, just make a little extra cash. That business exploded. And all of a sudden I began hiring my friends in high school to come work because I couldn't do everything and God supernaturally provided in that immediate of, you know, my business became my hobby, became an actual business while I was now a senior in high school. And so it wasn't easy. You know, worked really hard and had to make, you know, life changes that my friends were out doing other things.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

You had to grow up fast.

[Jackson Lemire]

I had to grow up. I had to grow up. But I'm grateful now when I look back, because I became a pastor very young. And part of the ability to maybe stepping into being a pastor at 25 was I had to grow up at 17. And so I kind of had. So in college I was there for a mission and a purpose. It was to learn everything I could learn and get it done. So I wasn't really there to make friends and have fun. And so I had to grow up, but, you know, grateful for even the tough experiences.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

And you eventually ended up marrying the

[Jackson Lemire]

girl, had your daughter, and that was a train wreck. What happened? It was a train wreck. Well, you know, my parents her parents, my grandparents, were like, you guys are having a kid together. It doesn't mean you have to get married. But I'm a brand new Christian, and I am just like on fire and stubborn. You know, I'm a teenage kid that thinks he knows everything anyways. And my thought was, you know, God will wave a wand over this and we'll go off to the sunset and it'll be incredible. That's not how it turned out. And so it didn't last long at all. And, you know, here I am, I'm checking all the boxes of disqualifying myself from ministry, you know, kid, before I'm 18, married and divorced early, but God can use anybody.

[April Simon]

I love that God didn't disqualify you. And I love the whole story. Which probably made you write your book

[Jackson Lemire]

and the struggles thereafter.

[April Simon]

Yes.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

So you're in school, you start off with a business degree, and you have this radical kind of encounter with the Lord. Tell us about that.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, so when I went to oru, I was a new Christian, obviously, you know, I was 18 and, you know, now I'm a dad and went to oru, study business. That's what I wanted to do. I started a business and then I had some other business ventures already going. And so I'm like, I think that's God's call on my life. So let's study business. And first year at oru, during the first semester, I'm driving and I'm feeling this tug. Like I'm called into ministry but didn't come from a ministry. Family ministry wasn't that appealing from a financial perspective. You know, at oru, there was a saying, you know, if you get a degree in ministry, you can either preach, teach, or learn to say, do you want fries with that? And so that was just, you know, that was the saying. And I'm like, well, I don't want to sign up for that, you know, but I felt God tugging me. And so there was a Wednesday morning, I had an early class. I was driving to oru, and I had like a vision. Never had something like it before or after. Like when you're at the movies and you see a projector screen hit, you can see the light go out. It kind of went out in front of me as I was driving. It was me preaching. It was very detailed, and I remember what I was wearing and all these significant details. But at the time, new believer, not sure, is that God? Is that me? Is that the devil? What is this? So just kind of like tucked it away and that night, I went to church. It was a midweek service, and the altar call was one of those generic ones that gets everyone to come down. Hey, if you want to, you know, answer God's call on your life, come down. Well, I'm going down. And Guy comes to pray for me. Didn't know who he was. It was a big church. And as he's praying for me, he retells me my vision that I had had that morning, being in ministry and all that. And it, like, really kind of gave me goosebumps and chills.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yeah. I mean, what did you think in that moment?

[Jackson Lemire]

This is really weird.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yeah.

[Jackson Lemire]

Because he was like, you ever had someone, like, just stare at you and they don't blink and they're dead? And I was just like, the sky

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

is reading your mail.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yes. And so I'm like, what is happening? And I'm young, brand new Christian, and

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

it was awkward, but how kind of the Lord that he is, he loved you enough to confirm in such detail.

[Jackson Lemire]

Well, I think God meets you right where you're at. And for me, that was kind of like a necessary nudge. And so, obviously, I was thoroughly convinced that that was the Lord, and I switched over into the department of Theology and haven't looked back since.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Wow. So you switched. You started studying theology. What was the journey to eventually pastoring?

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, it was a good journey. You know, as I'm at oru, I'm doing my undergraduate, and then also I did my master's degree in theology there as well. So during that time, I was a youth pastor and got some real ministry experience dealing with teenagers, which was a blast. And from there, though, as I was getting ready to finish my master's degree, I had a friend of mine who graduated before me, and he went to work for the ministry of Reinhard Bonnke. And he called me and said, would you have any interest in working for Reinhard and being his crusade director here in America? He's doing this tour across America, and for me, I was like, I've never been on a missions trip, let alone, you know, I don't know. But it was an opportunity. I was like, absolutely, I want to do this. And so I did that, and I learned so much, as you can probably imagine. And that was coming to a close because he was ending his American stateside. His last one was in Oklahoma City. And the pastor of the church that I'm now at called me and said, would you like to be the pastor now? Grant, I'm 25 years old, and of course, my Answer was like, absolutely, you know, absolutely had no idea what I was walking into. Had no idea.

[April Simon]

I love when you told that you were trying to preach a certain way and you were trying this style and listening to people and trying to be like them. I think a lot of people, including myself, have done that. Been there, done that. And I love what your dad said to you. Tell what your dad said.

[Jackson Lemire]

Well, so when you first start preaching one, you're insecure. Yeah, you're.

[April Simon]

You don't know what you're doing.

[Jackson Lemire]

Totally unprepared. But your heart is. You want to minister to people and obviously. And also you don't want to make a fool of yourself at the same time. And so, you know, I'm watching everybody else and how they sound, how they, you know, move. You're watching. Yeah, the preacher voice. And so I start doing that very early on and just thinking, this is, you know, this is what you're supposed to do. And so my dad got ahold of me and was like, quit trying to be all these guys you're watching or hearing on TV or radio and be you. Yeah, be you. And that was actually kind of free because I was trying to be something I wasn't. You can't be a good carbon copy. And as great as these other preachers were, me trying to be them, that wasn't who God called me to be. And so coming to discover who you are as a person, as a follower of Christ and then also as a pastor and a preacher, that's a journey. You know, you don't discover that overnight. But, yeah, grateful for my dad kind of correcting me early because habits get harder to break the longer they go.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yeah, I love that quote where it talks about, like, why try to fit in when you were born to stand out. And I think people crave, like, genuine authenticity and vulnerability. And ultimately no one can be Jackson. Only you can be Jackson. And I think you probably saw a shift when you just started being authentically you.

[Jackson Lemire]

Oh, yeah. When I started opening up, see, I was always kind of told you got to be careful what you share with your congregation. You know, they're looking to you to lead them. And if they think that you are totally just a walking mess up, you're not going to have too many people follow you. So I was always really guarded and just trying to put a. I don't know what you want to call it, an image or a Persona. And as I kind of was breaking free from this and I started to really open up about my own struggles, my marriage Struggles, my struggles as a pastor, as a man, as a father. I began to realize something. Our church started to grow because so many people were like, you are real.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

They could relate.

[Jackson Lemire]

There was a relatability and authenticity is very attractive, especially to our generation. It's very. The fake it till you make it. Christianity failed, and people have kind of just. They don't want that. And so as I began to open up and. And show what's underneath the surface a little bit, people began to, one, I think, have maybe a little more of a respect for me as a pastor because I was honest, but then also the relatability factor of, like, yeah, been there. I know what it's like to have intense fellowship with my wife right before I get up to preach.

[April Simon]

Oh, now we're getting good.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

On the way to church, fighting with the kids and the things.

[Jackson Lemire]

And then you put that smile on, and I'm too blessed to be stressed as you walk in.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

We want to get more into some of those struggles and the things that you face, but don't go anywhere. We're going to be back with more from Pastor Jackson Lemire right after this.

[Host (possibly Joni Lamb or co-host)]

Some books deserve to be held, cherished, remembered. This one is more than that. It's a place to meet God. The new Bible and Journal bundle is designed to help you slow down, reflect, and listen, paired with a journal that gives you space for your prayers, your questions, and your journey. Get yours today for just [e-mail] Bible or call now to order.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Well, welcome back. We're talking to Pastor Jackson Lemire, and you've written a new book, Divided. Tell us about why you chose to write this. Write this book.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, the book was really birthed out of my own journey as a follower of Christ, but also as a pastor and kind of a compilation of sermons that I was preaching that I recognized had a, you know, maybe a greater impact than other sermons that had been preaching. Because I'm not the only one who struggles with the internal civil war. I realized as I'm preaching to my church, as I'm preaching to, say, you or you. I'm not just preaching to young. There's two of you inside of you. There's the Rachel that you love, and then there's the Rachel that you are not a big fan of.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Okay, talk about those two different sides because you talk about, like, as human beings, we're complicated. What do you mean by that?

[Jackson Lemire]

Well, in one moment we can act like an angel, and then in the next moment we can act like a beast of the field. And there's this duality and, you know, sinner and saint simultaneously. And we really don't know when that other guy's gonna appear, that other person. So we have this internal civil war that is taking place. It's there. And sometimes we don't want to admit that because we want to, you know, put up the Persona. We got it all together. But that war is there. And I really, really dive into Simon Peter, who Jesus continually refers to him as Simon and Peter, even though he changes his name. If you remember, they're on their way to Caesarea Philippi, And Jesus says, who people say that I am? They say, some say you're a prophet and John the Baptist. And then Jesus asks the disciples, who do you all say that I am? And Peter or Simon at the time speaks up and says, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus said, from this moment forward, you shall be called Peter, a rock. So he goes from Simon, this guy that is really messed up. If you look at Simon and his. The guy's messed up. And then Jesus says, well, now you're Peter. You're a rock. In that same chapter, Peter tries to correct Jesus about going to the cross. And Jesus calls him, get behind me, Satan. You talk about a roller coaster ride of a chapter. He begins as Simon, he's elevated to Peter, and then he's brought down to Satan. And I think sometimes we all have that day where one moment we are really on top of things, and then the next moment we're like, oh, my gosh, what just happened? And Jesus continually refers to Simon Peter as Simon Peter, because I think it's a reminder that although he's calling Peter out, Simon is still there. And yet God still uses him.

[April Simon]

I love that because you refer to us being human. We've got to decide if we're going to be the Simon or the Peter. Think about this morning. My name actually is Simon, so I actually am a Simon technically. But I had the opportunity to pull Simon out and I had read your notes and I thought, you know, I'm not going to pull Simon out today. But it's. It really made me think. And I love the way you just broke it down in your book. You know, I could either react like Simon or I could respond like Peter. And that's everything.

[Jackson Lemire]

All those opportunities every day are present, whether it's how you deal with your husband or your wife, your kids, the person that cuts you off on the highway, the person who takes your parking Spot at church. I mean, all those things, you get to react or you get to respond. And the more we respond, like Peter, the more we're becoming like Christ.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

And I think the reality is there's so many people that think, like, when you become a Christian, like, all the, all the struggles and the internal dialogue is gonna. And it's going to go away. But like, really, we have to constantly, the Bible says renew our minds.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah, well, you know, I'm going to give a quote and you can edit it out if you don't like it, but it's not original with me. Martin Luther, great theologian Martin Luther, said, you know, the old me was drowned at water baptism, but that bastard is one good swimmer. And that's the truth about me. The old Jackson is an Olympic caliber swimmer. He resurfaces at the times I least expect it. And so when you can get honest about that, you can deal with it. But when you refuse to even acknowledge that that other me is still there, you find yourself in a position where if you don't deal with it, what you don't face, you can't fix. So you have to be willing to face it. And that's where honesty comes in. Transformation. Having people that knows the real you, having people in your life who know the Simon and the Peter is vital.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

I think that's so good. When you talk about having, you know, like accountability and having somebody that you can confess, you know, the Bible says confess your sins to one another. There's real healing and breakthrough that can happen. But for a lot of people watching, they might feel one shame because of what they've done, or maybe even fear. Like, if I tell somebody this, like, what are they, what are they gonna think about? Talk about that.

[Jackson Lemire]

That was me. Because it's like, well, if I open up about this, what are the people in my church going to, you know, to think? Right? And that was a real. So, yeah, the shame is inevitable. Sin produces shame. All of us experience that. But then fear can hold us back from getting healed. And, you know, I discovered, and this is what the book is all about. It's my journey. I would go to God and I would say, lord, I'm so sorry. If you'll forgive me, I promise, you know, we've all prayed this prayer. I promise I'll never do it again. And God is so good that God forgives us in that moment. The problem is we're not always so good. And three weeks later, I find myself, lord, I'm so sorry. If you'll forgive me one More time. I'll never do it again. And I truly believe God forgives you again. You can be forgiven of your sin, but not healed of your sin. At the exact same time, you can go to God and ask him to forgive you, but then struggle and fall right back into it the moment you leave confession with him. And you brought it up. James says that if you confess your sins one to another, that you will be healed. So it's in my confessing my sin to God forgiven. And that's the biggest and most important thing of them all. But you don't have to stay stuck in your sin. You can be forgiven and healed, but it's a process of confessing to God, but also to someone else. And that's where you have to have someone in your life that you can open up with. I'm very clear in the book. Because I don't want anyone to make this mistake. You don't need to share everything with everybody. Cause not everybody is for you. And Facebook is not the place to get healed. That is just like, not the place.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Well, I mean, social media in general, I mean, you bring up a whole nother kind of issue. Especially like when you're in a place of leadership, you're a pastor. It's like these types of things can spread like wildfire. And it's like you have all the trolls and all the people that are commenting and dialoguing and wanting to just deplatform you and cancel you.

[Jackson Lemire]

I always love learning new things about myself online.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Yeah, I know, right?

[Jackson Lemire]

It's always fun. I didn't know I actually did that.

[April Simon]

I love that the old you doesn't have to predict the future you or even the today you. And I heard a quote that said, the enemy knows your name, but calls you by your sin. God knew your sin and calls you by your name.

[Jackson Lemire]

So good.

[April Simon]

And so many people might be watching right now. And you know, they just, they. First of all, you need to know the best thing you can ever do is give your heart to Jesus. That's the best decision you'll ever make. And you know, just like you said, if we're faithful, we confess our sins, God will cleanse us and they can become a new creature today. Their new life can begin today. So why don't you take a minute and just lead anyone to Christ that wants to make that decision today?

[Jackson Lemire]

Absolutely. You know, maybe you're like me whenever I was 17 years old and your world has been turned upside down and you're just like, I don't know what to do. I promise you, the best decision you could ever make is turning to Christ in that moment. If he did it for me, he'll do it for you. And it's so simple, yet so powerful. All you have to do is believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You're given a promise, you'll be saved. And so I want to invite you to pray this prayer after me. And as you pray this prayer, by faith, the angels in heaven, they'll rejoice. So will you just say, father God, thank you for your goodness.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Thank you for your goodness.

[Jackson Lemire]

And thank you for your grace.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Thank you for your grace.

[Jackson Lemire]

I know, I know I was born a sinner.

[April Simon]

I was born a sinner.

[Jackson Lemire]

But I also know a savior was born.

[April Simon]

A savior was born.

[Jackson Lemire]

So today, from my mouth, from my mouth, out of my heart, out of my heart, I declare. I declare Jesus is Lord. Lord of my life. Fill me with your spirit. Fill me with your spirit and seal me to the day of your return.

[April Simon]

Return for the day of your return.

[Jackson Lemire]

In Jesus name, Amen.

[April Simon]

Amen.

[Jackson Lemire]

Amen.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

And what can people expect that just prayed that prayer?

[Jackson Lemire]

Oh, my goodness. Well, here's what you're going to expect. The angels in heaven are rejoicing. And now you need to take your first step. The first step I would encourage you to do is go find a local church in your area to get plugged in and to get connected. Because as a now follower of Jesus, you want to be a part of his body and his body gathers at local churches. So take that first step that is right in front of you.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

We're so excited for all the people that join the family of God. And if you prayed that prayer, we have a free gift that we want to send you. You can call the number that's on your screen. We'd love to send you the book of John. And this is just a great place to start in the word of God. Start reading your Bible. As Jackson said, get involved in a local church. And we're so excited to see how God, God transforms your life. And Jackson, we're so grateful that you've been with us today. One last question. In your book, you compare Peter and Judas. Ultimately, they both failed God.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

But what made their outcomes different.

[Jackson Lemire]

Yeah. Is what they did after they failed God. Because as a follower of God, you know what we're all going to do?

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

Fail God.

[Jackson Lemire]

I wish that wasn't the truth. It's what you do afterwards. Judas experienced. Remember, he felt bad for what he did, but his remorse did not lead to repentance. And Judas died in his sin. Peter felt God experienced remorse, but his remorse led to repentance and that repentance led to restoration. And so when you fail God, yeah, you feel bad about it. But it is in choosing to repent of your sin that God restores you from your sin.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

So it's not about how fall, but it's about how we respond after the fact.

[Jackson Lemire]

Falling is inevitable. Getting back up, that's the key.

[Rebecca Lamb Weiss]

That's right. Well, we're out of time. We hope that you guys have enjoyed the program today. We want to remind you that you don't have to live trapped in a double life of shame. There is freedom for you. If you want to break that cycle, then please call our toll free number, 1-800-329-0029. Our prayer partners are standing by, ready to agree with you and pray. As I said before, I want to thank Jackson Lemire for joining us today. Be sure to pick up a copy of his new book, Divided Breaking Free from the Double Life. For more, you can visit him [e-mail] as always, make sure to follow us on social media, subscribe to our YouTube channel and listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all major platforms. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, bye bye for today.