Dorothy Newton (2:32)

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com I

Joni Lamb (2:46)

need to be healthy every day to

Dorothy Newton (2:47)

survive it and go to the next

Joni Lamb (2:49)

chemo round and the next chemo round. So it's important that work was part of that to keep my mind busy for eight, nine hours. And then I had to go back and face the reality. I had a goal and the goal is to survive.

Marcus Rogers (3:01)

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place

Joni Lamb (3:10)

for healing, learn more and sign the pledge@workingwithcancerpledge.com. Well, perhaps one of the most awesome displays of God's power and love is a transformed life. And the beauty of it is that it doesn't matter where your life started or how hopeless you feel. You have to remember that God loves you and he has a plan for your life. And forget that. And no one knows that better than today's guest. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is April Simons. How are you? I am doing great. A transformed life is still the greatest miracle. When Jesus comes into a heart, it so is. And I'm so grateful personally, and I know everybody here is that God didn't judge us based on our past. He looks at us based on our future and knowing what he has in store. And I'm so grateful. I've made a lot of mistakes. And I think it's important for people watching to understand. So many times there are people watching, they're like, oh, no, you don't know what I've done. You don't know mistakes I've made or I've gone through a divorce or God can't use me. And that's a lie from the enemy. It is a lie straight from the enemy.

Dorothy Newton (4:33)

Because no matter what has happened in

Joni Lamb (4:36)

your life to you or by you, God forgives.

Dorothy Newton (4:39)

Jesus forgives and sets you free.

Joni Lamb (4:42)

Yeah. He makes all things new.

Dorothy Newton (4:44)

Exactly.

Joni Lamb (4:44)

Rachel Lambriun, welcome to the table.

Rachel Lambriun (4:46)

Hi. I'm happy to be here.

Joni Lamb (4:48)

It's a good, it's a good word when we have a testimony of a transformed life.

Rachel Lambriun (4:53)

And I'm so grateful that God doesn't give up on us and that there's always a second chance. And I love our guest today. He's got a really special name.

Joni Lamb (5:04)

Yep, he does.

Rachel Lambriun (5:05)

Yeah.

Joni Lamb (5:05)

Rebecca Lamb Weiss. Our guest has a very special name. That you're familiar with. I am familiar with that name. Love that name. Great name. It's a great name. And you'll know what name we're talking about in just a minute. But, you know, again, for people who don't know the Lord, what are they missing out on? Abundant life. That you may know him and have abundant life. You know, that's what it's all about. There is no life without relationship with Jesus. Yep. Dorothy Newton, how are you doing, my friend? Doing so good. So good. You know, there's nothing better than freedom in Christ, you know, and experience and encounter in his redeeming love. You know, it changes everything. It really does. It really does. Well, he's the founding pastor of Firehouse Church in Chicago and the author of Weirdo Christianity. We're going to get into that. Please welcome. Okay. Marcus Rogers. Come on in, Marcus.

Dorothy Newton (5:59)

It's funny hearing you say that. I know.

Joni Lamb (6:02)

All right, we have a Marcus at the table.

Dorothy Newton (6:03)

Another Marcus.

Marcus Rogers (6:05)

Glad to be here.

Joni Lamb (6:06)

And, of course, you, too. Love that name because that's our dad. That's our dad's name. That's your dad's name who's gone on to be with Jesus, and we'll see him again. Well, Marcus was a child of divorce, a fan of the nightlife, and the target of an array of bullets. That's a lot. So how does this man become the founding pastor of a church and a voice of biblical truth in this generation? Well, today he's here to share his amazing story with us. So we'll get to your book in a little bit, but just share a little bit about growing up and tell us your story of how you came to know the Lord. And it wasn't an easy, you know, walk to get to that place for you.

Marcus Rogers (6:42)

Yes, ma'. Am. Well, first of all, I'm glad I wore a suit because all you ladies are dressed up very nice. Golly. But we grew up pretty much poor, you know, and my dad was in the military. Some ladies, actually, like yourself, came knocking on my mother's door, gave her the gospel, and she started bringing us to church. And, you know, she went through her things. Abuse, getting cheated on, things like that. And somewhere along the way, her and my father separated, and he met her in Germany. My mom's German and all that. And she said the Lord told her to go to Chicago. And we have no family in America. I don't have any uncles, aunts, grandparents, anything like that. And so.

Joni Lamb (7:22)

So she was getting out of a difficult marriage.

Marcus Rogers (7:24)

Yes.

Joni Lamb (7:25)

And like you said, there were you know, there was abuse. She'd been cheated on. But it was kind of suddenly like, what happened the day that she came to get you from school?

Marcus Rogers (7:33)

Man, I was minding my business, doing my work, and she's just there at the school. They called me to the principal's office, and we went straight from the school to the airport.

Joni Lamb (7:43)

Wow. How old were you in Germany?

Marcus Rogers (7:45)

Like six.

Dorothy Newton (7:46)

Oh, you were Germany?

Marcus Rogers (7:47)

St. Thomas, actually. We were in the Virgin Islands at the time.

Joni Lamb (7:49)

Okay.

Marcus Rogers (7:50)

That's where my father's from.

Rachel Lambriun (7:51)

Did you have questions for her?

Marcus Rogers (7:53)

I mean, I was excited to be on the plane, but I didn't, like. And I was excited not to be in school. You know, like, hey, I get a free day.

Joni Lamb (8:00)

And so where are you in the line of siblings?

Marcus Rogers (8:03)

I'm the oldest.

Joni Lamb (8:03)

You're the oldest. So then there were three more under you, right?

Dorothy Newton (8:06)

Yes.

Joni Lamb (8:06)

And then your mom. So that's five people.

Rachel Lambriun (8:08)

Did you wonder where your dad was when we got.

Marcus Rogers (8:11)

When we got to Chicago? Yeah. Like, I was like, okay, what's going on? And we didn't have nowhere to stay, so we were there for. I guess. I don't know. Some lady met her in the airport, and that lady happened to work for a shelter, and so she said, come here. And we were in the shelter. And every night I would ask, you know, when's Daddy coming? You know, is he gonna join us? And she would just kind of like, oh, you know, you know, don't worry about it.

Rachel Lambriun (8:31)

So your mom literally got on a plane with four kids.

Marcus Rogers (8:33)

Yes.

Rachel Lambriun (8:33)

With no plan.

Marcus Rogers (8:35)

Yeah, nothing. No money, no nothing. No family.

Joni Lamb (8:36)

Except God.

Marcus Rogers (8:37)

God told her to go, and then

Joni Lamb (8:39)

God told her to go. And she met this lady in the airport. Eventually she got a job, started daycare, went back to school, became a teacher. She was amazing.

Marcus Rogers (8:48)

Superwoman.

Joni Lamb (8:49)

She was. So tell us about life in Chicago. Was that difficult?

Marcus Rogers (8:55)

It was something else. I mean, I love Texas.

David Winston (8:58)

Golly.

Marcus Rogers (8:58)

I'm going to tell you that right now. If it was up to me, I would. Texas, Florida. But the Lord told her to go to Chicago. And we see the fruit of that now, many years later. It didn't make sense. I started working. She put me in homeschool because the schools were so bad that she had to pull me out. I was getting fights.

Joni Lamb (9:13)

You were bullies?

Marcus Rogers (9:14)

Yeah, fighting every day. Like, it was horrible. And she pulled me out.

Joni Lamb (9:18)

And so she said, you had big

Marcus Rogers (9:19)

glasses, Steve Urkel glasses.

Joni Lamb (9:21)

Yes.

Marcus Rogers (9:21)

And I actually had Lasik. So back in the day, I think, you know, my lenses were probably, you know, thicker than this, they were bad, so I couldn't see.

Rachel Lambriun (9:29)

Do you think you were acting out because of the lack of relationship you had with your dad? Like, searching for that. That father figure role?

Marcus Rogers (9:36)

Yeah. So one thing for me, and this is probably where I made a lot of mistakes, is I always wanted to have the family. Like, you watch the Cosby Show, Full House, the Brady Bunch, Brady Bunch, all of that. And I was, like, really desperate for that love and that validation. Fortunately, though, you know, my mom got me a job with the landlord. He was kind of getting over old Russian guy, and he taught me a lot of. But he had me working like eight hour days for $2 an hour, so, you know.

Rachel Lambriun (10:01)

Wow.

Joni Lamb (10:03)

He was kind of like that masculine figure, though, in your life.

Marcus Rogers (10:05)

He was definitely a masculine alpha male. Everything, you know, drywall, work hard. He taught me how to work hard, for sure.

Joni Lamb (10:11)

Wow. Okay. So let's go back and talk about when you moved to Chicago. I don't know if you were 10 or 11, but you started almost like a depression and losing hope and just not seeing your father. Not having a father figure just didn't have an identity. Yes, talk about that.

Marcus Rogers (10:32)

I think just seeing my mom, you know, even though I was young, I knew we were poor. You know what I'm saying? We sleeping on the floor, you know, all that kind of stuff, seeing her struggle and I mean, when I say she was a superwoman, like, she really was a superwoman. I remember just, you know, every morning she's up, she's praying, you know what I'm saying? Like, before we're up, and I saw her work hard, and I remember thinking to myself, like, and she's watched this show before. Oh, she loves you.

Joni Lamb (10:57)

Yes, Mom, I love you. What's her first name?

Marcus Rogers (11:01)

Maria.

Joni Lamb (11:02)

Maria, thank you for watching and raising this incredible son. Okay, go ahead.

Marcus Rogers (11:06)

Yeah, she. She worked hard. And I saw it. And in my mind, I always was thinking, okay, what am I gonna do to help her on the other side? And, you know, just watching her go through the most. She always took us to church, even when they have a car and we're going 30, 45 minutes on the CTA. Like, she was dedicated, she worked hard. And so it really just bl. She taught me how to pray. She taught me about the importance of the presence of God. We might not have had nothing else, but one thing we have was the presence of God in our house. And I always tell parents, you gotta talk to your kids. Cause if you don't, the devil will. Whether it's through the education Whatever it is, entertainment, media. But the enemy would come. And there's these little voices like, you know, your dad don't love you, and you're a burden to your mom. And, you know, I would see her, like, working hard and it got so bad, and myself, you'll never amount to anything. Yeah, all those kind of voices. I was going to kill myself. And I thought, like, oh, if I kill myself, that's one, you know, less kid that my mom has to worry about. One less burden. And I walked down by Lakeshore Drive, climbed the bridge, you know, tears in my eyes. And it's probably just the most beautiful moment in my life. It was freezing cold out there. And I remember I just felt like the hand of God grabbed my neck, and it was like warm oil.

Joni Lamb (12:20)

This is right before you were going to jump?

Marcus Rogers (12:22)

Right before I was going to jump. And I just heard him say, son. And when I heard that, son, it's like, if you've ever had God speak to you, like, I'm sure all of you have, his word is so full, it fills you from the inside out. And the tears just begin to flow, and he's, you know, don't do it. I have a plan for your life, you know.

Joni Lamb (12:39)

But the word son.

Marcus Rogers (12:41)

Son, yes.

Joni Lamb (12:41)

Meant everything to you that day because no longer were you an orphan. You knew you were son. And so. Okay, so things didn't change automatically for you. As far as your surrender, you went on to what, go in the military?

Marcus Rogers (12:55)

Yeah, I joined the army at 18. Obviously, my dad was in the military, so I got to see a little bit of it. And I always thought, you know, like, I wanted to be a hero. So I either wanted to be a cop or I wanted to be, you know, a soldier. So I thought both were, like, big heroes. And at the time, I think some cops did something. Mayor Daley changed the age. So I wasn't. I couldn't go at 18, so I said, okay, I'm go join the Army. And so, you know, I did, and it was probably one of the best things that ever happened.

Joni Lamb (13:18)

But you actually were deployed where?

Marcus Rogers (13:19)

I went to Iraq, Baghdad for a year, Afghanistan in, like, 2010 for a year. And then South Korea was the last place I went.

Joni Lamb (13:29)

Okay, so tell us about your surrender moment.

Marcus Rogers (13:32)

I had a couple. So, you know, and God is so patient. And that's the beautiful thing. But in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly in Afghanistan, there was like, one night, there was, like, a ground attack. And, you know, the siren is going off, and it's like, you know, they're attacking the base and there's bombs coming in, rockets and all that kind of stuff. And I knew and to be fully transparent, you know, I was not living right. You know, I had my girlfriends and things like that. And in that moment, I had my 2, 4, 9 and I lock and load. And I said, lord, you know, I'm about to go out here and you know, if I die, you know, I repent, you know, for everything. And I stepped outside and it was, it was chaos out there. And God spared me. And, you know, we be hard headed sometimes. I came back from that deployment still partying, still clubbing, you know, like I'm invincible or something.

Rachel Lambriun (14:22)

Why do you think you got off track? Especially after you had that experience when the Lord touched your neck and it was like warm oil.

Marcus Rogers (14:30)

Well, so sometimes when God speaks to us, that doesn't mean that we're mature, you know, so when God pulled up on Saul, it wasn't because Saul was so great. When God gave Joseph a dream, it wasn't that he was ready. So God can speak to us. And you know, that doesn't mean we're ready. We have to go through the process.

Joni Lamb (14:46)

And that seed has to be discipled. It has to fall into good ground and process still. That moment would never be forgotten. And you knew that there was a God who loved you. Okay, so then there came a moment that you were like, okay, this is it. I'm all in. You're hard headed. I know, Marcus.

Marcus Rogers (15:05)

I got a big old head.

Joni Lamb (15:06)

You know, Marcus means mighty warrior.

Marcus Rogers (15:08)

Yes, I heard this. I didn't. I'll tell you this part, you know, I don't share this often, but before I got in the shootout at the club, I was at the club a week before. And so we're in the club, you know, and we're just dancing and having a good time. And this girl is in there who used to go to one of the churches I go to. And she walks up to me and, you know, I think she's drunk or something. Like she kind of kisses me on the cheek. She's like, you know, we're not supposed to be in here. I'm like, man, you know, get off me. I'm trying to party right now. And five minutes later, me and two of my military buddies, we got stumped out by like 30 people. And it was bad. I mean, probably one of the longest like fist fights in my life. And I was in the fetal position.

Joni Lamb (15:49)

Wait, why? What caused the fight?

Marcus Rogers (15:51)

You know, there was a young lady in there and these guys Tried to talk to her and say, hey, she's married, so back off. Like, her husband was in the bathroom at the time. And they didn't like that. They're, you know, gangster, whatever, and they're like, what did you say? And then you're probably a little drunk. And, yeah, they stomped us out. And I was in the fetal position getting stumped out for a good minute. And I remember, I said, lord, if you get me out of this. He got me out of it.

Joni Lamb (16:17)

Then you went back a little bit.

Marcus Rogers (16:18)

I went right back. I was right back in there. Dancing in the church.

Dorothy Newton (16:21)

The praying mother is frustrating.

Joni Lamb (16:24)

Dorothy is about to get her switch out. I can tell she's about to get. A week later.

Marcus Rogers (16:28)

A week later. Yeah, no, I was hard headed. She said it. So, yeah, I know my mom was frustrated and she's probably, you know, praying for me and stuff. But I got up and everything, you know, I didn't have bruises. My homeboy, you know, he was bleeding from his eye. It was bad. But that manly pride kicked in. So now I'm talking to these guys like, Ah, there's 30 y', all three of us. And I'm back in my pride. I went back to the club the next week. Long story short, leaving the club, while we were walking to the truck, some guys out there drunk, they get into a little altercation. We get in the car and I try to, you know, defuse the situation. You know, I'm talking and politicking and I'm thinking, everything's fine. I pull out of the parking lot, I hit a red light, and I never forget, it was like a silver Camaro pulled up. And then a car pulled up on the side. And there's like a car went in front and pulled up in front of the truck. And then another car came on the other side. And so I was like, boxed in. And when they, when they rolled down the windows, it was the same guys, obviously, from the parking lot. And then when they showed us the guns, the kind of guns they had, I was like, oh, yeah, we're gonna die. You don't have those if you're not gonna shoot them. And I never forget, it was like slow motion, Joanie. Like, I'm just. A lot is going on. I'm looking at my partner, we're boxed in, and we make eye contact. And it's like we're just saying bye, like we're about to die tonight. And I never forget, on the white car on the left, somebody got out the driver's side and I saw him cock the pistol. And. And he was walking up to the window. And it was like that same voice that spoke to me when I was 12 was like, look up. And I just felt. I just felt that my mom was praying me. Praying for me. Had to be 2 o', clock, 3 o' clock in the morning. And I looked up in the rearview mirror and I saw, okay, they had boxed me in, but I could back out. And so I put it in reverse and I hit the gas and they started shooting. And bullet holes on the roof, bullet holes all on the side. There was actually, like a bullet stuck in the plastic where my partner was sitting at. And my guys, you know, they had escalated the situation. They were drunk in the backseat. We had two guns in the car. So when the guys rolled down the window and they pointed the guns, my guy reached and he grabbed the gun and he put it out the window. And I'll never forget, he said, we can all die tonight. Like, he just didn't care. And I'm like, I got kids. I cannot die tonight. Like, if I die tonight, I'm just

Joni Lamb (18:43)

waiting for the prayer to come. If God says, okay, this is the fourth time, yes.

Marcus Rogers (18:49)

Yeah. So after, you know, I dropped everybody off, I knew it was God, and I knew that my mom was praying for me. And I went home and I fell on the floor. The tears was flowing, and I knew it was kind of like God was like, I'm going to get your attention one way or the other. You're not going to run from me. And I cried and I said, lord, I'm so grateful that you've been so patient with me. The first thing I said was, give me the job that nobody else wants to do and I'll do it, you know. And from that moment, I never looked back. And been going ever since.

Joni Lamb (19:18)

Yeah, praise God. Are we glad that he finally said yes, Lord, to go on.

Rachel Lambriun (19:24)

Did they ever find who was trying to sue?

David Winston (19:27)

Did you?

Marcus Rogers (19:27)

Like, we didn't look into it. Cause to be honest, like, you know, I don't even know if we were, like, totally legit with everything we had going on.

Rachel Lambriun (19:34)

Yeah.

Marcus Rogers (19:34)

So.

Joni Lamb (19:35)

Wow. So how'd you go from that to being a pastor?

Marcus Rogers (19:40)

That's a good question.

Joni Lamb (19:42)

That's over the course of a couple years.

Marcus Rogers (19:43)

Yeah. No, that wasn't, like, right away. I went back to church in Virginia. So I was in Virginia at the time. And I went through a lot of counseling, a lot of discipleship. I'm a big believer. Most people don't know that because I'm on the Internet. But I'm all for accountability, so I've always had a pastor. Many people don't know that, but I've always had men of God that I submit to and I listen to.

Joni Lamb (20:04)

There's so many people on the Internet have no accountability.

Marcus Rogers (20:07)

Yeah. And it's chaos.

Joni Lamb (20:08)

It is chaos. And I appreciate you sharing that.

Dorothy Newton (20:11)

Dangerous.

Joni Lamb (20:13)

I want you to stay right there, because when we come back, we're going to hear the rest of the story and also a little bit about Marcus book Weirdo Christianity. So stay right there. Take a moment. Find yourself deeper. Connection starts with understanding every language. Helps you discover the art of relating to others. Your strengths, your weaknesses in detailed summary to bring you closer to those around you. Everyone wants to be understood. Find the connection that you've been missing. Get your results@lifelanguages.com. all right, welcome back, everyone. Okay, so the Lord has spared your life and called you into ministry. Where did it start? And I think we'd all be interested to hear, like, the whole Internet connection. Cause you got a huge following. How did that happen?

Marcus Rogers (21:08)

All right. It's gonna be a pretty funny story. But essentially where it started, though, is I have to tell this story for it to make sense. So I heard that voice when I was gonna commit suicide. I had another incident when I was in Chicago where me and my brother was, like, playing basketball in the snow. And I heard the Holy Spirit clear as day. I had to be, like, 14 years old. Go hide behind these cars. I'm like, what? Hide behind these cars. I'm not gonna do that. And long story short, I didn't listen. The Holy Spirit came again and said, go hide behind these cars. I'm like, well, I'm gonna do that. The snow's coming down. It's just me and my brother. Nobody else is outside. These two big old guys come over there and they rob me. Me and my brother, I mean, they're grown. I'm 13, 12. He's like 8. And they stole my little snacks. They were like, you got any money? And I said, no. I padded my pockets, and I had a bunch of coins. And they were like, you're lying. They shook my pockets and everything like that. It was. It's terrible. But I knew, okay, I gotta listen when I hear that voice. And so you become more familiar with the voice of God. And so I had started making videos just to encourage people. Because I've never been the cool kid. I've always been rejected. So I said, man, let me make these videos. Somebody out there can be Encouraged by this. And I was only getting, like, two views. One was probably my mom. And that was, like, for like a year. And then one day, the Holy Spirit told me, I want you to go to your job and go to your office. And I knew it was that boy. So I'm listening this time.

Joni Lamb (22:32)

Okay.

Marcus Rogers (22:33)

And I went. And the Holy Spirit was like, take that trash can and fill it up with water all the way to the top. Now I'm getting nervous because I'm in the army. I got friends who are in the army. They're going to think I need a psych eval or something like that. And the Holy Spirit was like, stick your head in that trash can and then preach. And I didn't know where I was going to preach. I put my head in the water. And that same feeling I had when I was 12, that oil down my back, I felt the oil hit me and I came, I helped. I just stayed on there. And I came out, I said, you gotta want God as bad as you want to breathe, you know? And, like, that desperation, you know? And that video took off, like 30,000 followers in about a week. And then from there, I never looked back.

Joni Lamb (23:11)

Wow. So it wasn't about Marcus. It was the God thing. That's right.

Marcus Rogers (23:15)

That is a trash can head.

Joni Lamb (23:16)

Yeah. Okay.

Marcus Rogers (23:18)

It was clean. It was clean and stuff.

Joni Lamb (23:20)

I was gonna say, okay, so why did you write the book? You say why being set apart makes you dangerous.

Marcus Rogers (23:28)

I think a lot of times people don't understand my ministry, but I'm a big believer in what the Bible says, that in the last days, it'd be doctrines of devils seducing spirits. Great. Falling away. So I take that very serious. And so we just have to make sure that we have that personal relationship where we know God for ourselves. So, like in that book, I talk about, you know, always the victim, never the vessel. From the stripper pole to the praise team, just, you know, and challenging people's perspective on what Christianity is and then backing it up with Bible, you know, essentially. And so it's weirdo Christianity to not believe God that, you know, he is the source of your provision, the source of everything. You know, a lot of people, they don't trust God. They say they do. We sing the songs, we make the post. But when it's time to really, you know, put it to the test and we see the church doesn't always step up like it should.

Rachel Lambriun (24:15)

Yeah.

Joni Lamb (24:15)

Would you just take a moment and encourage someone that's watching right now and just maybe even lead us in A simple prayer, because you're watching. And if you were to die right now, you don't really know where you go. Like you really don't. You say, well, I'm a good person. Won't get you to heaven only through Jesus. He said, I'm the way, the truth and life, and no one cometh to the Father except by me. And it's a free gift. Talk to them. Marcus.

Marcus Rogers (24:42)

What? I just want to encourage you. If you're watching this, it's not an accident that you're watching this right now with these wonderful anointed ladies. God is trying to tell you something, and number one, that he has more for you. He has a plan for your life. There are no accidents with God. So if you're here and you're still breathing, you might feel like, man, I don't have a lot going on for me or my life has been hard. It's never too late with God for him to turn things around. So if you're still breathing, you have an opportunity to win. You have an opportunity to overcome. You have an opportunity. Let me tell you something. You might have pain in your life, but guess what? The labor pains bring latter rains. When you trust God, So what I would just encourage you to do, you don't have to pray a fancy prayer. You just have to be sincere from your heart and say, God, this is what I got going on. This is what I'm dealing with. This is what I'm feeling. And I surrender it to you. And if you give it to God, it might not seem like a lot. If you give it to God, I promise you he can do more with it than you can. So be encouraged. And remember, without faith, it is impossible to please God. So when you're in situations where it's faith, it's no surprise. God's just trying to see that you trust them.

Joni Lamb (25:46)

Can you just do a little simple prayer and we'll repeat after you? For those of you maybe don't know how to pray that prayer so easy,

Marcus Rogers (25:54)

Father, right now, in the name of Jesus, we just want to pray for everyone that's watching and let them know that all they have to do is have a conversation with you. They don't have to get pray anything fancy, Father. So right now, anybody that's watching, if you need joy, if you need peace, if you need the Bible says knock and the door shall be open. You can just lift your hands right now and say, God, I need some peace in my life. I need some joy in my life. I need some healing in My life, I need some freedom. And if you ask, you shall receive. It doesn't have to be nothing religious about it. In the same way that my kids can come and they ask their dad for anything. If they're hungry, I'm going to feed them. If they're scared, I'm going to comfort them. God will do the same for you.

Joni Lamb (26:34)

I remember my grandpa who's such a great influence on my life. I tell this all the time, but he was there at the Tool and Dye Mill, Greenville, South Carolina on a Monday morning at the water fountain and his life was a mess. He's 19 years old and he didn't know how to pray, but he just said, God, if you're there, I need you. And God transformed his life in such a powerful way. He wants to do that for you too. Just say, jesus, forgive me. Come into my heart right now, be my Lord and Savior and I thank you for everything that you're going to do in the days ahead. In Jesus name, amen. It is a transforming prayer, isn't it Dorothy?

Dorothy Newton (27:15)

Yes, it is.

Joni Lamb (27:16)

It changes everything. You know, the past is gone forever and it's a new start, a new beginning with not alone, but with Christ. Yeah. Rebecca, what about people who just prayed that prayer? What can they expect? Well, once you receive the gift of salvation, I was actually reading about it today in Galatians, talking about that when we are baptized in Christ, we are raised to new life. And it actually talks about how there's freedom found in Christ. But as I was actually sitting here, I was thinking, okay, now pray that prayer. That's like the first step. Then you gotta find a good Bible believing church. Get in check that doctrine. It's usually on their website. Make sure it's spirit filled, spirit led and develop a relationship with God and just kinda like what Marcus was saying, give every day to him and just follow him. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. Do whatever he says, even if it means hiding behind the cars. He's always right. That's right.

David Winston (28:09)

That's good.

Joni Lamb (28:10)

So good, Rachel. Yeah.

Rachel Lambriun (28:11)

And I think also it's important that people be found in community. You know, so many people have said this. Dad used to say this, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. And so it's important to get around people that believe in Jesus and so that they can influence your life and you can start to change and grow and be everything that God's called you to be.

Joni Lamb (28:29)

And a Bible. Anna Kendall, how important important is that? Oh, that is so important.

Dorothy Newton (28:32)

And find a B that you understand.

Joni Lamb (28:34)

Yes.

Dorothy Newton (28:35)

One that you understand. You know, most of us have tried

Joni Lamb (28:38)

managing our lives ourselves. We've tried handling everything ourselves and made a mess. And just think, when you can turn

Dorothy Newton (28:45)

this over to God and he creates beauty out of it, we give him

Joni Lamb (28:49)

ashes and he turns it to beauty. So stop trying to do it yourself. Allow God. That's good. I'm just so glad God gives us a million second chances. And anybody who's watching, who said, God, I messed up too many times, if you don't take this story and listen to it, he can do anything with anybody. No matter how many times we've missed his voice or, you know, just messed up. So grateful. Who needs to read the book?

Marcus Rogers (29:14)

I would just encourage anybody, especially young folks, to read it because they're getting all their information from podcasts and stuff like that that has Bible to back up everything that I'm saying.

Joni Lamb (29:23)

So that's so good. So good. Well, we are out of time, but I want to leave you with this. You were created for such a time as this. It's no accident that God put you in this specific moment in history. And you know what? He's given you a purpose and what you need to accomplish it, but it takes surrendering to him and his Word. It's like a computer that's not connected to the Internet. If we're not connected to the one who created us, we really can't fulfill our destiny on the earth. That's why giving your heart to the Lord and saying, God, not my will, but your will be done. You're going to be amazed. And you say, well, it's too late. You don't know. No, that is a lie. Do not believe that. It is a lie. From the pit of hell. God has his hand on you and he wants to use you. So if you're watching today, you're ready to say yes to God or if you pray that prayer with us, prayer partners are standing by ready to pray with you today. If you have a need in your life, you say just, I just need someone to pray with me. I just need to be encouraged. I've lost hope. That's why that number's on the screen. So call that number. It's our honor to pray for you. I want to thank Marcus Rogers for joining us at the table. Be sure you pick up a copy of his book Weirdo Christianity why being set apart makes you dangerous. It's available now, and for more, you can visit him online@marcusrogersministries.org you're available to speak and preach. Do a little preaching there now for whatever. Okay?

Marcus Rogers (30:50)

All right.

Joni Lamb (30:50)

Well, as long as it's holy. Make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes and exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. You can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all major platforms. I want to thank you for watching. I'm really excited about those of you that prayed that prayer. I just want you to know God loves you so much and I don't care what mistakes you've made. He will forgive you if you just ask him. Okay what he did on the cross. His blood was shed for you and for me. And it's a free gift. Salvation is a free gift. You don't have to work for it. You have to be good. You can't change yourself before. Just stop. Quit trying to do all that and just say, okay, I'm coming to you just as I am. Lord, come into my heart right now and he'll meet you right where you are. We'll see you next time. Bye bye for today.

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Joni Lamb (33:59)

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Joni Lamb (34:33)

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David Winston (34:39)

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Joni Lamb (34:44)

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Marcus Rogers (34:46)

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Dorothy Newton (34:48)

No better feeling than when everything just clicks.

Joni Lamb (34:53)

Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. So what happens when you let God take the lead in your love story? Well, today's guests are here to share their journey of healing, hope, and second chances. If you've ever faced heartbreak or a broken relationship, their story will encourage you to believe that God can take even the most impossible situations and turn them into something beautiful. But before we get to that, joining me around the table is my beautiful friend, Cindy Johnston.

Marcus Rogers (35:48)

Hey.

Joni Lamb (35:48)

Hey. Don't we love beautiful love stories? Absolutely. I love Hallmark Channel.

Dorothy Newton (35:53)

I love love stories.

Joni Lamb (35:54)

But, you know, marriage requires a lot of work. It does, but it's worth every amount of work that you put into it. Yeah. Anna Kendall, Welcome. And I think we'll touch some on blended families as well. That's important.

Dorothy Newton (36:08)

It is very important that when we realize that we've been broken and blended

Joni Lamb (36:13)

and bonded and I think that's what's happened here.

Dorothy Newton (36:16)

There's a bonding.

Joni Lamb (36:17)

All right. Rachel Ann Brown, you're always ready to learn.

Rachel Lambriun (36:20)

I'm ready to learn and grow. And this is a wild story of how they met. You just never know where you're gonna meet someone, so you always gotta get ready.

Joni Lamb (36:26)

You never know. So get ready. Cause you're gonna hear their story. Dorothy and Newton, are you ready? I'm ready. I'm ready. You know, I'm excited. Followed them for a while and great, great stuff. All right. We want to welcome David and Nikki Winston to the table today. Welcome, guys. Thank you so much. I'm so glad you're here. Yes.

Dorothy Newton (36:45)

Thank you for coming.

Joni Lamb (36:46)

Well, you know, David and Nicky Winston have walked through trials in their relationship and discovered God's healing. And now they're passionate about helping couples grow together, not apart. Today, they're here to share their story and offer practical tools to build a stronger and lasting marriage. So David Winston, son of Bill Winston, who's been here at the table.

David Winston (37:08)

That's right.

Joni Lamb (37:08)

A couple of times. We love him.

David Winston (37:10)

I do, too.

Joni Lamb (37:10)

We love his dad. Great pioneer. Love his dad. So how many kids are there in the family?

David Winston (37:16)

So I'm one of three.

Joni Lamb (37:17)

One of three. And where are you at in the.

David Winston (37:19)

I'm the youngest. You're the youngest and the only son. The only begotten son.

Joni Lamb (37:23)

The only son. The youngest and the only. Let me just tell you about the babies. Yes. They're always spoiled, aren't they, Rachel?

Dorothy Newton (37:30)

I think they could definitely be.

Joni Lamb (37:31)

They are. They are. So tell us a little bit about your story. Let's start with you, Nikki, because you didn't have. You had some difficulties, I mean, some challenges growing up in a family, divorce, et cetera, et cetera. Talk a little bit about that, how it affected you. Yes.

Dorothy Newton (37:50)

So I did come from a divorced family, and it was my stepdad who raised me through my stepping.

Joni Lamb (37:55)

I got your biological dad. Did you know him?

Dorothy Newton (37:57)

I didn't early on, so we have a great relationship now. I. He knew me when I was younger, but, you know, when you're so young, you don't have memories. So we met, for me, about 13 years old.

Rachel Lambriun (38:08)

Wow.

Dorothy Newton (38:08)

And our relationship now is fantastic.

Joni Lamb (38:11)

But back then, you really. It was absent. It was new first years.

Dorothy Newton (38:15)

Yeah, yeah.

Joni Lamb (38:15)

In your life.

Dorothy Newton (38:16)

So. But my stepdad was. He raised me. It's all I knew. That's all I knew. I had the last name, his last name and everything. And so I was. It was a very loving relationship. So when he and My mom divorced, and I thought that that was my dad. I mean, I knew, but I thought this was my dad.

Joni Lamb (38:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (38:34)

So he just disappeared.

Rachel Lambriun (38:36)

So your mom and your stepdad divorced.

Joni Lamb (38:38)

Yes.

Dorothy Newton (38:38)

Yeah.

Rachel Lambriun (38:38)

That's what was traumatic for you.

Joni Lamb (38:41)

Absolutely.

Dorothy Newton (38:41)

So I was 11 or 12, and I just kind of went through the changes of the girl who has very obvious daddy issues, like attention behaviors.

Joni Lamb (38:49)

That's a really important age, though.

Dorothy Newton (38:51)

Yes.

Joni Lamb (38:52)

11 to 12 dads. Those of you that are listening, I'm married to a psychologist, and he said the dad has such an important role in a little girl's life. To tell her she's beautiful, to tell her that she has a great God, has a great plan for her life, that she's smart. And, you know, all of those things is so important to pour into your daughters. And so at 11 or 12, all of a sudden that's gone and you have a great moment. But that still doesn't fill the role of what your dad could do. When you have. When that's absent, then you try to make up for it. And that's kind of what you did.

Dorothy Newton (39:26)

That's what I did. And so just, you know, attention seeking. But what happened was I attracted the wrong person. Got married at 19 years old to. I mean, when you look. Your husband would say it was my. It was a dad, you know, the father figure I was looking for. So, you know, that didn't turn out well because I think a lot of ladies know what that kind of personality can look like.

Joni Lamb (39:45)

But that was. That was something you tried to make work. You had two children.

Dorothy Newton (39:48)

Oh, yes.

Joni Lamb (39:49)

But what was. I mean, it was just not a healthy relationship.

Dorothy Newton (39:53)

No, no. I tried and I tried. I mean, we didn't. I didn't. I didn't believe in divorce.

Joni Lamb (39:57)

Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (39:58)

And, yeah, we had two children. And so ultimately, I feel like I got delivered from the marriage. Yeah. And then I was still. I was very broken coming out of that marriage. Like, broken, empty. I am a lot.

Joni Lamb (40:14)

I've been told.

Dorothy Newton (40:14)

I know it's whatever.

David Winston (40:16)

A lot of this stuff, a lot.

Joni Lamb (40:17)

Ye.

Dorothy Newton (40:18)

But I. Coming out of that marriage, I felt so, like, empty and weird and I wasn't used to. Because I was at my mom's house at that point, and my current. My stepdad, now, who's amazing. And I just felt like I was waiting for something to come around the corner and oppress me. Like, it was, like, weird to not live under something hard and judgmental and oppressive. And so I had to kind of come out of that first.

Joni Lamb (40:42)

Yeah. And so what were Some of the things that you had to deal with that God had to heal in your heart early on from that divorce, Well,

Dorothy Newton (40:48)

I still had daddy issues. So I came out of that marriage broken and hurting and still seeking male attention, honestly. So I had to heal from that. I went through this process of forgiveness at a conference for ladies, and I forgave all the men, all of them, and really did. Like, I felt the change. I went from. I was at this thing, and I was, like, kind of felt, like, kind of bound, and I forgave. And I remember just dancing with the ladies, and it just felt so different. I felt free. And then. So after forgiveness, sometime after was the healing and where I just basically, God instantly healed me from a spirit of unworthiness. He spoke. He told me that that's what I was dealing with.

Joni Lamb (41:28)

He said, you're carrying this, and I don't want you to. I said, take it because you are worthy.

Dorothy Newton (41:35)

Have it, then. I don't want it.

Joni Lamb (41:36)

So, yeah. Did you feel something lift? Okay.

Dorothy Newton (41:39)

It felt like it came out, like, almost like. If I had to picture it, it's

Joni Lamb (41:42)

almost like a wood coming out.

Dorothy Newton (41:44)

It felt just like about the size of. I know that sounds weird, but I could picture it and it came out. And I just started praying in the spirit to try to fill back up the hole space. And then after forgiveness healing, I still had the habits. So I went through this process where I was getting all this male tension, and it was grossing me out. And I felt like a sheep and they were wolves. And I asked God about it, and he said, nothing's changed. You just are healed now. And so I had habits that were attracting it still. So God took me through a process of habit changes.

Joni Lamb (42:17)

What were some of those habits that were dangerous? Okay, okay, here. She's like, okay, Jenny is asking the question.

Dorothy Newton (42:23)

So you know how, like, when you see a woman walk and you're like, oh, she's trying to get attention? That's how I walked. I mean, and I'm already built kind of in a way that's hard not to walk a certain way. So I literally practiced walking straight. And now if you see me, I walk straight. And I know that sounds.

Joni Lamb (42:38)

But when you're alone with David, you walk.

Dorothy Newton (42:41)

Oh, I walk all kinds of ways. When I'm with my husband, absolutely. I walk sideways.

David Winston (42:45)

Like, oh, I walked that wall, girl.

Joni Lamb (42:47)

I know what you're saying. It's like. It's almost like a subconscious thing where you're trying to attract something. Feel a hole.

Dorothy Newton (42:56)

Right. But now that I Was healed.

Joni Lamb (42:57)

But you were healed. And the Lord was like, so what other habit was there?

Dorothy Newton (43:00)

The way I flipped my hair was very dramatic.

Joni Lamb (43:04)

Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (43:04)

You know, it was kind of like, you know, just eyes and everything and so. And then even my sense of humor, the way I joke.

Joni Lamb (43:11)

I've been around girls like you before. I was like that.

Dorothy Newton (43:14)

I was like that. I have pictures sometimes. I want to show them, like, the different. Like, here's me at 11. Here's me at 14. You know, just different. But yeah, just all those things. So.

Joni Lamb (43:24)

And you were. You were almost like. It's almost like. Remember we say in church, saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Spirit.

David Winston (43:30)

Come on.

Joni Lamb (43:30)

But that sanctification process is a process where the Holy Spirit is teaching us how to be a godly Woman. In Proverbs 31 Titus 2.

Rachel Lambriun (43:39)

Did you go through this healing process before you met David or asked her?

Joni Lamb (43:43)

Yes. Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (43:43)

Yeah. It was when I met. So I also cut 15 inches off my hair because I was kind of. You know how you. Sometimes you go overboard when you're. I didn't know exactly what to do, so that was when I felt like I was body and hair. So I just chopped it. And it was like. It was still, like, shoulder length. And I just thought that was something else I could do. So when I met him was I had grown maybe, like an inch. Like, I had met him right after I had really worked through that process.

Joni Lamb (44:08)

Okay, so David, talk. Tell us about meeting this beautiful Nikki. Because you were a senior at oru.

David Winston (44:16)

That's right.

Joni Lamb (44:17)

And in a relationship.

David Winston (44:19)

Yeah, but I had just gotten out of a relationship.

Joni Lamb (44:22)

How did you know? Like, y' all were engaged. Like, how did you know? Okay, this is not right.

David Winston (44:26)

You know, God, he spoke to me. You know, Long story short, there was just kind of an unrest in my spirit. Just like.

Joni Lamb (44:32)

You got to listen to that, don't you?

David Winston (44:33)

You've got to lean into that.

Joni Lamb (44:35)

I mean, when you listen.

Rachel Lambriun (44:36)

Was that relationship.

David Winston (44:37)

It was about two years.

Joni Lamb (44:38)

No, I'm just saying that there's. Some of.

Rachel Lambriun (44:40)

You walk away from that.

Joni Lamb (44:41)

You're in a relationship right now, and you don't have peace. Like, you just know when you're knower. It's really the Holy Spirit. There's an understanding that is not right. And you really have to have that peace. So you didn't have that?

David Winston (44:56)

I didn't have that. And I sought the Lord.

Joni Lamb (44:57)

Is it a mutual thing, or did she get hurt? You get hurt?

David Winston (45:00)

It was not a mutual thing. She did not get that spiritual memo and so, you know, for whatever reason, that's what God was speaking to my heart. Actually, as a matter of fact, I said, lord, I want you to confirm it. After I prayed, I felt like God spoke to me. I went to speak to my dad the next morning, and he said, son, God has been speaking to me about your relationship for the last two weeks. And I didn't want to overstep, so I asked the Lord to show you first and then bring you to me to confirm.

Joni Lamb (45:29)

Was it a bad relationship? Because sometimes when you walk away, it doesn't necessarily.

David Winston (45:34)

It wasn't a bad relationship. And that was probably part of the curiosity that I had, that was part of the angst. I didn't know because there was nothing wrong, naturally that happened. There was no catalyst. There was nothing that set it off. There wasn't a big fight. I wasn't feeling necessarily jitters about, you know, being married. It was just an unsettling yes. I couldn't. I couldn't make it digest.

Rachel Lambriun (45:57)

So many people settle for good when God wants to give them great.

David Winston (46:01)

Well, that's literally what God spoke to me. He literally said, you can have good or you can have my best. The choice is up to you. And so for me, he knew that his best for me was this woman right here. And she had what I needed to help me grow in the areas that God needed me to grow.

Joni Lamb (46:20)

Okay, so let's get y' all met. Okay, so what happened?

David Winston (46:24)

So a mutual friend of mine, we were hanging out one night. We went to hang out at her house, just to hang out as friends. She worked at the Sprint telephone company. I said, hey, I need to disconnect the contract with my ex. Can you help me? She said, yeah, come on in to the store I'm working on these days. We came in, she helped, and then her friends after that.

Joni Lamb (46:45)

So wait a minute. When you met her at the house, were you already thinking, hmm?

David Winston (46:49)

There was no romantic anything?

Joni Lamb (46:50)

There was nothing.

David Winston (46:51)

Nothing romantic.

Joni Lamb (46:51)

We were just gonna go to the Sprint store.

David Winston (46:53)

Yeah, we were just kind of hanging out. I didn't know her before, so she was a stranger that day. And so, you know, we became acquaintances. And so she helped me. We left her friends who worked there, were employees, said, hey, that was awkward. He was flirting with you. And she was like, nah, no, he wasn't. And so here I come, text messaging her right in the midst of that conversation and said, hey, sorry, that was awkward. Thank you so much for helping me, you know, with my situation. What are you doing?

Joni Lamb (47:21)

Why was the ex Was there because

David Winston (47:22)

the ex was right there with him.

Dorothy Newton (47:24)

They were like, was that his sister? Like, what is happening here? Because they felt like he was flirting with me. And I did not. I didn't feel that and I didn't feel.

Rachel Lambriun (47:32)

So you were helping both of them?

Dorothy Newton (47:33)

I was helping both of them.

David Winston (47:35)

And she was doing a great job as a professional.

Dorothy Newton (47:37)

Thank you.

David Winston (47:37)

And I asked.

Joni Lamb (47:38)

She was very professional.

David Winston (47:39)

Very professional. And I said, hey, how can I thank you? I'd love to come see you. And so I wore her down after a while. And she was doing an off site engagement for work, and so she said, okay, you can visit me. And I said, can I bring you something? She said, you can bring me chocolate. So I brought her Godiva. And we just hung out and talked. Then we went on our lunch break and talked some more.

Joni Lamb (48:00)

And what are you thinking? Like, are you just like.

Dorothy Newton (48:03)

Yeah, what were you thinking?

Joni Lamb (48:04)

Were you just like, immediately, like, to be honest, there's something here.

David Winston (48:08)

To be honest, I was just shocked and blessed that this beautiful woman was, like, entertaining me. Like, I was just.

Joni Lamb (48:18)

She's a couple years older than you.

David Winston (48:19)

Yeah, she's six and a half years older than me. And so I was just like. I felt like, man, like, I'm winning today. This is a good Friday for me.

Joni Lamb (48:27)

Well, you know, and I told you earlier, like, my husband Doug, he talks about in finding Mr. Right, that you can. You can get a boy, you can get a man, or you can get a godly man. And he was a godly man. And so even though he was a few years younger, you recognized the maturity in him that you had.

Dorothy Newton (48:48)

Yeah, yeah. So I had just broken up about a week or so before then. I had broken up with someone 14 years older than him. And what I didn't. Couldn't get past was the communication. It was just so, like, immature. It was fragmented. There was no understanding.

Joni Lamb (49:04)

That's with the older man.

Dorothy Newton (49:05)

The older man.

Joni Lamb (49:06)

Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (49:07)

So here we are, and I'm, you know, sitting here talking with him. And it was like, I have never. This is a young man. I've never communicated like this with a man. He's just engaged and listening and paying attention, and he loves God, so caring and loves the Lord.

Rachel Lambriun (49:22)

Did you know at the time that she was divorced and had two kids?

David Winston (49:26)

Yes, because I think that first night that we had hung out, you know, just kind of getting to know each

Joni Lamb (49:31)

other side of it, you kind of threw that out there just because you wanted him to know, Like.

Dorothy Newton (49:34)

Well, I mean, knowing me, I probably talked about it Right. When he visited me on that work site. Cause it's not. It's not something I hide. Like, it's very much the biggest part of my life is that I have children. So, I mean. I mean, I might have said. I would have said divorce probably, but that I had kids and talk about my kids.

David Winston (49:50)

And I really think it's God, because it kind of snuck up on me. And I think both of us. Because neither of us were looking for, like, a long term committed relationship. I had just gotten out of something. She had just gotten out of something. And when we got together that weekend, it was just like, this is divine.

Dorothy Newton (50:07)

Yeah. It was forever. It was. That was it. It was exclusive. Every day.

Joni Lamb (50:10)

You knew immediately after you got together. Immediately.

Dorothy Newton (50:13)

Yeah.

Joni Lamb (50:13)

Every day on the phone, texting.

Dorothy Newton (50:16)

In person. Yeah.

David Winston (50:17)

I'll say this, and we've said this before, that after three days, we felt like we were in love. And I remember my oldest sister, Melody, she came to visit Tulsa maybe a couple months after we had been dating. And I told her, I was like, hey, this is the woman that I'm gonna marry. And so, you know, Melody's some years older than me. So she was like, okay, well, brother, you know, well, let's just let it play out. Don't take it too fast. And she might have thought I was joking, but, I mean, it was about 13 months from us meeting.

Joni Lamb (50:48)

Well, you graduated. You were a senior. So you graduated in May.

David Winston (50:50)

I graduated in May.

Joni Lamb (50:52)

And then you gave a little graduation party, right?

Dorothy Newton (50:55)

Yes. Yeah, I had his family over, which I wasn't really familiar with.

Joni Lamb (50:58)

His father. Yeah.

Dorothy Newton (50:59)

Even when he told me we were at lunch that first day, he's like, well. And so, you know, we're telling each other about ourselves. He's my dad. He's the senior pastor of a church, about 15, 16,000. And I was like, oh, I just interrupted him because I thought he misspoke. I said, do you mean 15 or 1600? And he's like, no, I meant 50. I was like, what? How? I didn't even know that was a thing.

Joni Lamb (51:19)

Then after she was with you, she looked on the Internet.

Dorothy Newton (51:22)

I mean, maybe. I don't know. I mean, we had trio 750s. I'm not sure how quickly I got to the Internet. It was 18 years ago, but. But I had them over and I still didn't kind of understand what that meant.

Joni Lamb (51:34)

So is this your first time meeting them?

Dorothy Newton (51:36)

When they came over to my house, I was making lasagna. And I have a friend who understood, and she's like, you're going to have them over your house. She's like, no, we got you. So she showed up with another friend of mine and her daughter. They were in white shirts and black pants, and they, like, served.

David Winston (51:52)

They were part of the hospitality team.

Dorothy Newton (51:53)

Yeah. It was so beautiful. I had no idea how good we still.

Joni Lamb (51:56)

Lazarus. Excellent. Oh, my God.

Dorothy Newton (51:59)

I made three kinds.

David Winston (52:00)

I mean, like, I had the first three or four months of our relationship. I was continuously blown away by her culinary abilities.

Joni Lamb (52:08)

Oh, wow.

David Winston (52:09)

Like, it was just like, wow. Like, amazing.

Joni Lamb (52:12)

If not for anything else. I'm going to marry this woman.

David Winston (52:15)

Oh, my gosh. I said, I'm gonna eat good.

Joni Lamb (52:18)

So your parents knew that she was divorced and had two kids? Well, yeah. Kind of talk us through that, what your dad had to say early on.

David Winston (52:24)

And so. And so they. Especially when that mate came around and we had to get together. And so they understood that, you know, we were together. And I think they were, I think, a little taken back because she was in a different place in life. I mean, not only was she six, seven years older than me, but, you know, was divorced with two kids. And so they were more. So very reticent about what was going on and, you know, encouraged me. Okay, well, you know, just take your time with this and. And just, you know, just seek godly wisdom and counsel, you know, and seek the Holy Spirit.

Dorothy Newton (52:57)

Yes. And I knew God was in it. We knew.

Joni Lamb (52:59)

This was. When was the turn when your dad was like, okay, I'm good with this.

David Winston (53:04)

So we went back to Chicago, and I think it was.

Dorothy Newton (53:06)

Well, we were skipping your mom. Cause she came.

Marcus Rogers (53:08)

Okay.

David Winston (53:09)

Yeah, that's true. She did come.

Dorothy Newton (53:10)

Yeah, her mom came. Well, so she was gonna come for a visit. She's like, I'm visiting. And he's like, okay. And then I was like. We were like. Cause we were married.

David Winston (53:16)

We had just gotten married recently.

Joni Lamb (53:18)

Yeah. Did they not know?

David Winston (53:20)

They didn't know. They knew it was on the horizon, but they didn't know that we had sex.

Dorothy Newton (53:24)

We had premarital counseling and everything. And he reached out. He said, I won't marry you until I speak to your mom at least. So he reached. They had a conversation. And so just to let her know, we're having premarital counseling. You know, we're going through this process, you know. Okay. And so he said, you know, just so you know, things might be different than you expect when you come.

Joni Lamb (53:43)

I think that's what he said.

Dorothy Newton (53:44)

And she said, how long have you been married? So, long story short, I took her into that same kind of encounter, the same women's conference that I'd gone to the year. Oh, years before. And as we're walking in the double doors, she stopped, like, abruptly. And I'm behind her, so I'm like, whoa. And she turned around and she goes, I'm so glad you're my daughter in law. And I was like, yeah, it was such a good moment for me. I just, you know, that she knew. And she had a really nice response.

David Winston (54:15)

Kind.

Dorothy Newton (54:15)

She was so kind.

David Winston (54:16)

And then was it maybe like several years later when my dad made the statement, I'll let you tell that story.

Joni Lamb (54:23)

Okay.

Dorothy Newton (54:25)

So we were taking his mom home from Thanksgiving and she was telling us a story about how the TV wasn't turning on. And he's like, we could just get a new tv. And she was like, well, hold on. She went to unplug it and plug it back in. And he was like, so impressed with her, you know, he was like, wow. See, that's why we're a good team. We're meant to be together or something like that. Like David and Nikki. Oh, yeah. And when she told me that, it was like, I'm good. I never need to hear any. I mean, he literally made us the standard of two people in a marriage that are the right.

Joni Lamb (54:58)

Of course we're together. And now we're talking about almost, what, 18 years y' all put together. That's right, yes, 18 years. So awesome. Let's talk a little bit about this for people who are watching. Because, Nikki, I know you had to go through some of this, and Dorothy, I know you being divorced, that sometimes the church doesn't sometimes have a place or they'll want to question, well, why did you get a divorce? Or did you have a biblical reason for a divorce? And they'll say, God hates divorce. Kind of speak to that, if you will, David.

David Winston (55:27)

Absolutely. Well, you know, there is a stigma that happens, you know, in churches and in ministry in different areas. And so.

Joni Lamb (55:35)

And we're not for divorce, let me just say. No, no, we're always about trying to heal marriages.

David Winston (55:40)

Yes. Not at all. But what we have to first understand is that God loves people even more than the union of marriage. God created marriage. Right. You know, the world didn't come up with that concept. But he loves people first. He wants people to be whole. He wants people to be well. And sometimes because of sin and the sin condition, we find ourselves in places where some people are hurting others people. There's sin that's being committed. And then because of that sin, it does drive people apart, to a place where people are feeling hurt and broken and need to be restored. But a lot of times, even when people point back to the Bible and say, well, God hates sin, that term, even. Even that concept has been misinterpreted if you look at it theologically. And I know my wife, you know, she. She speaks about that in her book to help us understand the correct concept.

Joni Lamb (56:27)

And what is that? What is God saying when he said God hates divorce?

Dorothy Newton (56:31)

So, interestingly, it's not divorce as we know it or even the word. It's not the word divorce like we know it. It's in the Hebrew, I believe it's Shalak. And the Greek in the New Testament is Apollo, and it's the sending away. And it was actually a cultural thing that would happen in Israel and with Hebrews, where men could. For any reason, some of the historical ones were like, someone went blind in

Joni Lamb (56:53)

their eye or they burned the biscuits.

Dorothy Newton (56:55)

Yeah, basically, he could walk away from his wife and leave her. It was separation. It's actually like estranged. Okay. And that is a thing that happened. Samson did it to his Philistine wife in Judges 14. You can see it. And so he just walks away. And he doesn't give her a certificate of divorce. So anywhere in the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Well, it's not in Revelation. So First Corinthians, Romans, all the way from Deuteronomy. Okay. If you see the word divorce and it's not coupled with certificate of. It does not mean divorce like we know it, where you're breaking the covenant, it means the abandonment. So in that where it says God hates divorce, that was translated. There are at least 18 translations that translate it correctly. And it's God hates the sending away or the putting away. That was the term, you know.

Joni Lamb (57:45)

And I was going to say our dear friend Jimmy Evans, who's done marriage ministry for 40 years, he said, sitting across from couples for years, the Lord began to show him there's four A's. There's, of course, adultery, there's abandonment, there's abuse, and there's addiction. And he said, those are all reasons God would never want someone to stay. Of course, you try to work it out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but both parties have to work on. Right? But the church will. Many in the church are very legalistic, and they're just like for adultery, forget a woman that's being abused or a husband or wife that's been abandoned for, you know, spiritually, physically and emotionally, they're Literally unbelievable. But that's like spiritual adultery. Abandonment is. And so, I mean, I know that you've probably spoken to that, but just encourage women and men that are watching that have been judged. And for one of those reasons we talked about by the church.

Dorothy Newton (58:46)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and if I'm going to encourage them, I want to encourage them biblically because, you know, when we're judged, people say, oh, I had people tell me, I'm going to hell. And I did research and found that it's these people that when Jesus spoke to that in Matthew 19, he was talking about the abandonment of a woman. So the husband's gone, she's still married. And if she is with another man, if she remarries, that's when there's adultery because she's still married. But throughout the Bible, if it's interpreted properly, if you are divorced with a certificate of divorce, divorce with a broken covenant, then you are unmarried. So Romans 1st Corinthians 7, all of this addresses that if you are unmarried, you are not tied any longer to the husband and you are able to marry again without adultery. It's a proper interpretation thing. And I do want to say that if that's you, God can heal your heart.

Joni Lamb (59:45)

God.

Dorothy Newton (59:45)

The Bible doesn't. The original translation doesn't say God hates divorce. God hated the abandonment of the woman because at that time it caused her to have to prostitute herself or beg because she didn't have an education, she couldn't make money, so she was on the street. And so that's treating your garment treacherously, like we see in Micah. So I'm saying that to say what God does hate is the sin that surrounds divorce. There's so much pain and there's so much selfishness, and so there's a lot of sin surrounding divorce. And God hates that. But he loves you and he loves you more than a covenant you made with another person. And he cares about your soul. And he can. Absolutely. Just like he healed me, he can heal you, he can love you.

Joni Lamb (60:28)

Yes. And now, 18 years later, you are leading the church and helping, right?

David Winston (60:33)

Yeah, yeah, we're leading things together. And help. Helping dad, as he's still the senior pastor, but he's doing a lot of apostolic work. Absolutely.

Joni Lamb (60:41)

We're both in ministry together.

David Winston (60:42)

We're in ministry together. Helping marriage ministry. She does singles. I'm doing more associate pastor type things.

Joni Lamb (60:48)

You have two kids to go home with, the other two?

David Winston (60:52)

We have four all together. Yes. So a busy household. But we love serving people and we love helping people. Formulate a strong foundation for this life in Jesus Christ.

Joni Lamb (61:02)

That's so good. So good. And the church is in Chicago.

David Winston (61:05)

Living Word Christian Center.

Joni Lamb (61:06)

Living Word Christian Center. Everybody welcome.

Dorothy Newton (61:08)

Absolutely come as you welcome the church of all nations.

David Winston (61:11)

We specialize in imperfect people.

Joni Lamb (61:14)

I love that.

Dorothy Newton (61:14)

I love that.

Joni Lamb (61:15)

Don't you love that? All right, well, we are out of time today. But I want you to remember that no matter your past, no matter the pain, God's love can restore and redeem. And if your marriage feels broken or you've walked through a divorce, there's hope, there's healing and is found through our heavenly Father. If you don't know him today, that's the most important prayer that you could pray is just invite Jesus in. Just say, jesus, come into my heart. Forgive me and be Lord and savior of my life. I believe you died on the cross for my sins. Forgive me and be lord of my life in Jesus name. I mean, I always say, my grandpa just said, God, if you're there, he didn't know how to pray. God, if you're there, that's the most important prayer that you can pray right now because it prepares you for eternity. And if you were to die today, do you know where you would go? Well, I'm just telling you that prayer changes everything. If you're watching today and you prayed that prayer, call that number on the screen. We have prayer partners that are standing by ready to pray with you. And I'd love to send you the gospel of John. That's just our free gift to you as you begin your walk with the Lord. I want to thank David and Nikki for joining us. To find out more about his ministry, visit davidswinston.com and to find out more about her ministry, visit nickiewinston.org make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes and exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. Of course, you can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast, available now on all major platforms. Thank you so much for watching. Those of you that prayed, call that number on the screen or let us know if you prayed that prayer or if you just need encouragement. That's a toll free number for you to call. We love to just pray for you. You don't have to give us your name, address or anything. Just let us pray for you today. It's our honor to do so. Thank you guys for being here.

Dorothy Newton (63:07)

Thank you so much.

Joni Lamb (63:07)

Want to have you back. Did great. I'm so glad you brought her along. Yes, she's a blessing. You two are great together. Hey. Today is a good day for those of you that prayed that prayer. It's going to change your life. I promise. Forever. And we're so glad you're watching.

Dorothy Newton (63:21)

Watching.

Joni Lamb (63:21)

We'll see you next time. Bye Bye for today.

Martha Stewart (63:28)

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Joni Lamb (64:38)

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Marcus Rogers (64:55)

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Dorothy Newton (65:04)

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