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A
The News Agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search search the News agents to start listening. You know, when we think of betrayal in marriage, we often picture women as the ones left behind. But what happens when the husband is the one who's been betrayed? Well, today's guest is here to answer that question and help men find hope after heartbreak. But before we get to that joining around the table, Cindy Johnston. We don't think a lot of times where this happens to the man as well, right? No, that's true. Especially in this day and age. True. However, that did happen to my father, so I do understand that. But it wasn't talked about a lot. So I think this will be really helpful because it's a fact that that does happen for men and for women. And it's almost like, oh, you're a man. Get over it. Where there's like, yeah, be strong, be a man. Well, no, they have feelings and it hurts and all of that. Yeah. I'm so glad you're at the table because that did happen to you and you can relate to what we're going to talk about. Anna Kendall, you have counseled been in women for years and years and probably for the most you maybe see where this would happen to the woman. But I'm sure you've seen where it happened to the man as well.
- [04:32]
F
Yes, I have. Before the Lord saved our marriage, I was the one that was unfaithful.
- [04:37]
A
Wow.
- [04:38]
F
So, you know, God had to do a tremendous work in my life and in Fred's life. And we've now been married 60 years. So God did it. But it was a very difficult time for both of us. And trying to understand why that happened, you know, that's important.
- [04:55]
A
It's almost like God took what you and Fred went through and then turned it for good and began to use it to help others.
- [05:03]
F
Exactly. And Folly counseled 10,000 couples from that.
- [05:07]
A
That's amazing. Rachel Lamb Brown, this is important to talk about. Men are important as well.
- [05:11]
G
You know, it's so important. I have two little boys. I hope that they never have to go through or experience this. But, you know, this does actually happen. I know. You know, in my own life where this has happened, not with me, but with people.
- [05:23]
A
I know.
- [05:23]
G
And it's heartbreaking. It's devastating.
- [05:27]
A
It really is. Dorothy Newton, you were kind of on the other side of that in your book. You tell your story about going through betrayal, but, I mean, this is something that, especially with Internet and social media, women are falling. Getting into trouble. Exactly. I was so excited about this show because in my young life, I can count on one hand how many times happened where women have cheated. And so I was like, wow, what a profound subject to discuss and talk about, because there's hope for both male and female, you know, but it's important. Well, and Cindy Murdoch, welcome to the table. There are men that watch Table Talk. Yes, they do. And I'm sure there's some men that are watching that have felt the sting of betrayal. Oh, my goodness. I'm sure they are. And it's. It's hard to even understand what they probably feel and go through as a man. Yeah. And I was sharing with the women earlier that in my prayer time, because I was betrayed in my first marriage. And so in my second marriage, in my prayer time, it was like the Holy Spirit whispered to me and said, stand by your man and tell the world you love him. Give him all the love you can. Stand by your man. I didn't know the Holy Spirit was country like that. I know, but it was like a God went to me, praying for him like that would seem weird coming, but those words have stayed with me all these years. Mary.
- [07:05]
F
To David.
- [07:06]
A
Stand by your man. That's good. That's good. Well, you know, he is a nationally recognized psychologist, and he is my incredible husband. Please welcome the person that's going to talk about this topic, Dr. Doug Weiss. Come on in. Here he comes. He runs in. Hey, baby.
- [07:23]
E
Hi, ladies.
- [07:24]
A
Hi, there.
- [07:24]
E
How are you all?
- [07:25]
D
We're good.
- [07:26]
A
We're good.
- [07:26]
G
We're ready.
- [07:27]
F
Yes. Excited to see you.
- [07:28]
A
Yeah, we are excited to see, you know, from infidelity to addiction, Dr. Doug has counseled thousands through their darkest moments of marriage. And today he's here to help us understand the often overlooked pain of men betrayed by their wives. So talk a little bit. You were kind of almost surprised at the response from this. I know you did a DVD on it.
- [07:52]
E
The Betrayed Men. You know, for decades, I've been working with infidelity, and most of the time, it's, you know, the women who are betrayed by the man who's a porn addict or he had an affair, or he's a pastor, whatever the situation is. But over the last 10 years or so, we've gotten more and more. I've worked with several clients who it was the woman, it was the pastor's wife, it was the neighbor, it was the woman who stepped out. And then the man had no resources because we got lots of books for partners of sex, partners of infidelity that are women, you know, part of child trauma, all that. But the men go through the trauma too. But they go through it quietly and silently because really nobody cares about them.
- [08:28]
A
Yeah.
- [08:29]
E
No one's really writing books for them. I did a video because men don't read books. Right. So because they can get in about an hour and a half, a lot of information, they will get in counseling. Because most men, believe it or not, will not go to counseling.
- [08:41]
A
That's what I was going to ask.
- [08:42]
E
They will just suck it up and say, I'll stay with you if you're faithful. Or they'll give them a condition or two or they leave.
- [08:48]
A
Yeah.
- [08:48]
E
You know, and they don't realize that they got hit by a bullet by their wife and they've got to heal themselves.
- [08:55]
A
I know you told me that in dealing with some of the different couples, of course you don't tell me any confidential information, but just generally that a lot of times, because men don't deal with the pain, they will leave the marriage.
- [09:07]
E
They will leave the marriage or they'll become worse in the marriage. Okay, okay. If you shot me with the bullet, even though I say, I love you, I'm going to stay with you. But if I keep that bullet in, that bullet's going to change who I am.
- [09:18]
A
Right.
- [09:19]
G
It can get infected if you don't remove that.
- [09:22]
E
Absolutely. And then he can stay in a self righteous position. He can enslave her emotionally. He can always bring it back up. As opposed to healing and forgive and release, which is what the betrayed man helps men do.
- [09:34]
A
Healing, forgiving, releasing.
- [09:37]
E
Right. And they got to deal with the anger for him. It's helpful if she can find out the why if they're going to repair. Because there's different reasons why women cheat and it's not because of him. Let's just be really clear because I say that with women all the time. When a man cheats, it's never the woman's fault. And what's interesting is when a woman cheats, it's always the man's fault. Okay. And women, they use that narrative against us. It's a lie. If someone cheats, it's 100% the cheater's responsibility for cheating. Now both people are responsible for the environment of the marriage. And the marriage may stink, but there's other options than cheating.
- [10:15]
G
Right?
- [10:15]
A
That's true.
- [10:15]
E
Right.
- [10:16]
G
Is there like a main reason that you see that women Cheat that women cheat.
- [10:21]
E
Well, the top reasons we talk about in Betrayed Men is she might have been sexually abused. She might have addictions, which leaves her immature and vulnerable, especially if it's a porn or sexual addiction. She might be an intimacy anorexic. So she's looking for sex without intimacy and. And intimacy with sexuality and marriage is scary for her. She might have had abortions or other secrets she's ashamed of that she didn't talk about. So she medicates through this kind of process. She might have an intrigue addiction, always getting those little hits off a guy, dressing seductively. She might have personality disorders. There's many roads to why, but the Choice is still 100% ours.
- [10:59]
G
I feel like these situations always are innocent and they, like, find themselves in these situations who like men and women when they cheat. It's like it never starts off with this intention of like, I'm going to cheat somebody.
- [11:12]
E
No, sometimes it does start off with that, Rachel. Sometimes it does start off with, I'm going to go cheat. I'm going to go find somebody. I've worked with thousands of people, and some women go, this is the kind of man I'm going to cheat with. He's going to either be rich, powerful, or in shape or just available. And there are cases where it's innocent, where we're innocently at a bar, we're innocently doing coworkers.
- [11:32]
G
Someone at work starts giving you compliments, starts paying attention, your husband.
- [11:35]
E
That's true.
- [11:36]
G
Whether it's men or women, either way.
- [11:38]
A
So cheating is wrong whether you do it emotionally or physically. But do you find that it's mostly emotionally?
- [11:45]
E
Well, you're hitting. We talk about the three types of cheating because there's three types.
- [11:49]
A
I was going to say, what are the three types of cheating? Because we only think about a woman having an affair with another man.
- [11:54]
E
Right. Well, there's that. There's the physical cheating, where they actually have a sex act with another person. There's the emotional. Okay, emotional. And intrigue, where they're having this emotional connection. They're sharing thoughts with each other. They're stroking. You're talking about Rachel stroking the other person's ego. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe they can't see how wonderful you are. You're so happy, you're so fit.
- [12:14]
A
But they may not be having sex. No, no, no.
- [12:17]
E
But their heart's going out there because they're saying things to that woman they wouldn't say if their wife was standing next to them. That's when you know you're cheating.
- [12:24]
A
Mm.
- [12:27]
E
Right. Okay.
- [12:28]
A
And you shouldn't be talking on the phone to someone if you're married to someone you work with that's married. Right.
- [12:34]
H
Or social media.
- [12:35]
E
Nothing is unprofessional. Yeah, right, Right. Our social media. I mean, you're right there, Cindy. So many women and men are getting trapped by getting on social media, which is the devil's playground, for sure. It's a porn store. They meet strangers. Or people say, hey, you're beautiful. Hey, you're this, of course, who doesn't look great on their best photo that's on Facebook. Right. But then the third one that's not often discussed, and we discuss it in the Betrayed man, is the neglect. Okay? You can commit adultery by neglect, and that is you're in a relationship with you, but you're not in a relationship with them. Your spouse.
- [13:10]
A
That's like frown.
- [13:11]
E
And you're protecting.
- [13:12]
A
What I was going to say.
- [13:12]
E
Well, it's intimacy. Anorexia is where you withhold love, okay? You're too busy for them, you blame them. You withhold love. You withhold spiritually, you withhold physical intimacy. Okay? And you are protecting you. You're not protecting the marriage or them, and you're actually putting them in pain, which can be an influence for someone to cheat. Because there's influences, but then there's decisions. And you can put someone in pain. Like you can put a woman in pain, and then she's so much hurting that she chooses. Inappropriate way to medicate. Okay, but she could turn to alcohol as well as another man.
- [13:42]
A
Don't you have another book called Married and Alone that kind of deals with.
- [13:45]
E
That deals with that whole topic because that's the. That's cheating that we don't talk about. It's like, Dr. Weiss, yeah, my wife would never cheat on me, but she will never love me either. She will never initiate sex. She won't even talk about it. She won't connect with me emotionally. She won't even pray with me. And she's a pastor on staff. I mean, Dr. Weiss, I'm suffering. Yeah, she's committing adultery with you by neglect, okay? Because scripture says don't withhold from each other. Right.
- [14:12]
A
How can that be helped in a marriage?
- [14:15]
E
Well, they can get counseling, okay? We do intensives at Heart Counseling center in Colorado Springs. That's the best help, the fastest. Whether your marriage is going in the wrong way or if you've already suffered infidelity. Okay? And they can call the counseling center for that, but they need to talk about what's going on, you know, in their marriage, if it's starting to go wonky because, you know, if you're not praying together, your marriage is already secular because it's two people instead of three. If God's not in your marriage, your marriage is already set up for sabotaging.
- [14:44]
A
But once it happens, it's hard to trust. I mean, how do you know that it's just not going to happen again? I mean, how do you really set measures? I mean, that's.
- [14:54]
E
Oh, no, it's easy. I got this. We've been doing it for decades, verbally.
- [14:58]
A
It's easy.
- [14:59]
E
Yeah, it's easy. Okay. You've been through this. And if we told your husband, okay, sir, you're going to take a polygraph. Oh, yeah. Now we're going to find out how many people and when it stopped and if you're still communicating with them. And then you're going to take one once a quarter to verify.
- [15:14]
A
Oh, I like that.
- [15:15]
E
Okay.
- [15:15]
A
And so when people do intentions, you don't have to have a crystal ball.
- [15:18]
D
No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [15:20]
E
So what happens is a woman who's willing to do that is willing to heal.
- [15:25]
A
Yeah, that's true.
- [15:26]
E
A man who's willing to do that, is willing to do that, is willing to heal. And we do those at intensives every week. Okay. Because it's what sets people free. The truth will set you free.
- [15:34]
A
And the light on the darkness.
- [15:35]
E
As soon as she says, listen, it wasn't one person. It was really five. It wasn't three years ago, it was five weeks ago. And I'm willing to be tested quarterly for the next year to verify. I've stopped all my behavior and I matured because she might have an addiction. She might be just romanticizing this relationship because, listen, honey, if he's cheating on you, he's not the best. He's not the best. God has. Okay, Right.
- [16:00]
A
You know, Cindy, and you've shared your testimony, but I think thinking about the issue that you had, that you were told one lie after another after another, and you kept finding out years later there was another woman. And like you said, if you could have had all the information, you might. Could have healed and saved you. I do believe that. I do believe. But it was.
- [16:21]
E
Well, he could have gotten. He could have chosen and got better. Because the truth will set you free. If you're still lying to your husband or your wife about these relationships you're in, you can't heal, Cindy. You can't heal. You stay sick, and then that Sets you up for more secrets.
- [16:34]
A
Well, you know, I think you told me about a study that you all did where you actually looked at the trauma, say someone who has had a physical betrayal, someone who has had an emotional betrayal, or someone that has just gone through like the intimacy anorexia. And you were surprised at the results. What were they?
- [16:54]
E
It was astounding. The book is called Partner Betrayal Trauma and we had 140 plus women fill out surveys pre and post. And I was expecting these three different populations, you know, porn, sex addicts, infidelity, and people who experience intimacy anorexia to be so different and scattered. I would learn something. But what I learned is it's exactly the same. That if you're neglected, you experience the same post traumatic stress disorder, the same depression, the same low self esteem as a woman who's experienced infidelity. And men experience post traumatic stress too, okay? They have intrusive thoughts, they get depressed, they isolate, they won't talk to people, they lose interest in activities just like a woman does, but they just don't talk about it.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah, well. And you know, I was probably about a year or so ago, I mentioned that term, intimacy anorexia to a pastor. And I remember he just kind of snubbed it. It's like, oh, I don't believe in that. I don't believe that's really. And how many couples have you actually dealt with where that was an issue?
- [17:53]
E
Huge amount. I mean, we coined the phrase intimacy anorexia. And if you feel married and alone, you feel like a roommate, you feel unloved, unwanted, unheard. You need to go check that term out. Intimacy anorexia. There's a lot of information, we've written a lot about that and the pain that that person goes through. I have looked at women and men who've looked at me and said, Dr. Weiss, I haven't been loved for three decades. I've been ignored, unwanted, and feel used.
- [18:20]
A
But that doesn't mean that you weren't married or you didn't have sex or that, you know, it doesn't mean that. What does it mean?
- [18:28]
E
Intimacy anorexia is the active withholding of spiritual, emotional and sexual intimacy. So oftentimes, even if they're being physical, they're not there with you. Okay? You're alone during the sex act. Okay? Intimacy anorexia is painful. If you feel married and alone, you probably are married to an intimacy anorexic, okay? And that is their way of cheating on you. Okay? And it feels painful.
- [18:51]
A
Why? What causes that?
- [18:53]
E
Sexual abuse causes that Bad role, parent attachment. Like if it's a woman, she didn't have it attached to her dad. Maybe he was dead or maybe he wasn't emotionally there. Addictions are also that and just poor role modeling of relationships in the male, female relationship at home. All of those can be causes. But again, it's choice. I can still say, you know what? Even though I have this, because I've seen more than a thousand intimacy anorexics heal and become great husbands and wives.
- [19:18]
A
And how does that happen?
- [19:19]
E
Well, they go into group, they do the material. There's a whole process of marriage work that they do. Sharing feelings like we do the dailies. You and I do dailies all the time. Because that promotes intimacy. I know. I love looking those brown eyes.
- [19:32]
A
And don't you think it takes both sides being intentional? That you may not feel like it? You might be tired.
- [19:39]
H
Just life happens.
- [19:41]
A
But an intentionality of. I want this marriage.
- [19:44]
F
I want this world.
- [19:45]
E
Disciplines guarantee results.
- [19:47]
A
Disciplines.
- [19:48]
E
Disciplines guarantee results. So many people want a simple prayer. Jesus, do a miracle. He's saying, well, here's the plow.
- [19:55]
G
There's so many times we're asking God for miracles, for things that we can actually just do ourselves.
- [20:00]
E
Absolutely. And he doesn't always answer those prayers. He's like, just pick it up and do it. But your point is, right? The man who's been betrayed has to do his work to heal as well as the woman, to find out her why and have accountability and deal with her infidelity. Both need to do the work for the optimalness of the marriage. So your intuition's right, what we do?
- [20:20]
A
Well, actually, we started. We've been married almost two years and we started doing this.
- [20:25]
E
I remember leading you that way while.
- [20:26]
A
We were doing this.
- [20:26]
E
Yeah, it wasn't true idea. Yeah, I led you.
- [20:28]
A
I didn't know about it.
- [20:29]
E
Okay, you didn't know.
- [20:30]
D
No.
- [20:30]
A
Whatever.
- [20:31]
E
You had the book. You had the book.
- [20:32]
A
So what I want to say.
- [20:35]
E
But we did it. Yes.
- [20:36]
A
Yeah, we do it. You taught me how to do it when we started.
- [20:39]
E
I just want to show men. Men need to lead. And when I was dating you, I said, I'm going to pray with you every day. We did that first. And then we start doing two feelings a day and two praise a day. Because I knew I was building a future, potential marriage. And you build it on intimacy and connection. That's how you stole my heart. And it was gone.
- [20:59]
A
Joanie, don't you think the woman really wants the mandaloon? Of course. But I want to explain what the Two feelings. Y' all are like, what are you talking about? You keep talking to you. I know what you're thinking. Okay, I will help you here. So write this down. Like, every day we do this, and you think, like, it's going to take a lot. It really doesn't. It doesn't take a lot of time. I mean, there are times that you'll say something that will evoke a communication conversation that's kind of neat that you get to have. But you do two feelings with each other every day. So usually he'll go first one day, I'll go first the next day. And he'll say, what was your feeling today? You know, And I'll say, like, I think about yesterday. I said, oh, I was really. I felt really blessed when the two grandsons came over and gave me these sweet cards for Mother's Day. Okay, so what was my feeling? I felt really blessed. Well, the feeling can't be about him. It has to be about a feeling you had. Like, Rachel might say on a day she's worked really hard, come home, and she's doing it with Josh, and she's like, I felt really stressed today.
- [22:04]
G
Girl, are you reading my diary?
- [22:07]
A
And anyway, and so he listens to that, and then, you know, then Doug does one, and then I do one. So we both do two feelings, but they cannot be about each other. And then you do two appreciations, and that has to be about each other. So I could say to Doug from yesterday, I appreciate you taking the boys, the grandsons, out to the pond and feeding the fish. Cause they love doing that with you.
- [22:34]
E
They do.
- [22:34]
A
And so we do two feelings, two appreciations. Appreciations are fun. You think about Josh. He would love what those words mean to him. Yes, words.
- [22:45]
E
Why not feed your man appreciation? Come on.
- [22:47]
G
Hey, can I just tell you, I folded all the laundry, and that man came home from the gym, and I could hear. I was waiting because it was in the closet. Normally there's clothes everywhere. He was like, babe. And he ran. And he was like, thank you so much.
- [23:00]
A
The closet's clean. There was your appreciation.
- [23:02]
G
He was happy.
- [23:03]
A
You'll be really shocked at how then we pray together. That develops intimacy and communication. He said, we do this. We read a chapter from the Bible every day.
- [23:14]
E
Every day.
- [23:15]
A
And then he prays and I pray. We both pray. So that's like, no more than. What would you say, 20, 15, 20 minutes? 20 minutes.
- [23:22]
E
Unless we get on. Get on something.
- [23:24]
A
What happens on the feelings? Like, let's say if you felt stressed about something and you say, I felt stressed. I may talk a little stressed. I usually have more words than. So does there become a communication there of, like, why or does he try to impart or.
- [23:40]
E
Yeah, she can say whatever she wants to, but we're talking about the betrayed man. And this is how they rebuild their relationship. Okay. They build intimacy. It has to be. Trust has to be established first. And then you have to have principles, which Joni's talking about. Principles that lead to intimacy and then a marriage. I've seen thousands of couples who have experienced, you know, this. You know that couples can heal.
- [24:02]
F
Oh, yes.
- [24:03]
E
And it's miraculous to see the betrayed person take responsibility and the person who was hurt and come together and resurrect something that's even better than it was before.
- [24:14]
F
The amazing thing about when you're healed is, like, I can talk about what happened with Fred and I, and it's like I'm talking about a cousin or somebody I used to know.
- [24:24]
A
Because you betrayed Fred before you came to know the Lord.
- [24:27]
F
That's right.
- [24:28]
A
But when you talk about that, Anna, you don't even know who she is. Yeah, exactly.
- [24:32]
F
I'm not that person anymore. But because I've been healed, the pain is not there for either of us. Fred has been healed, so we can talk about it. It's not.
- [24:40]
E
Well, you can live in the movie instead of the photograph. If you live in the photograph of what happened, the car accident, and you stay on the photograph, you don't get to drive your car anymore.
- [24:49]
A
Yeah.
- [24:50]
E
Okay. But if you can go through the movie of healing, you can have an incredible. I can't. Thousands of faces come to my mind when I think of all the people whose marriages are better after this situation because it brought all the issues that were messed up that they were talking about to the forefront. Clean them off and move forward.
- [25:07]
F
And you know what I think a lot of mine was? I went to 13 schools before I was out of high school, and I had. It's like. It's like what I learned was that you start over. Every two years, you start over. So the trauma builds up, and I'm in a marriage, and I think you start over. It's like my mind was programmed in that way. Plus, I didn't know the Lord.
- [25:26]
A
Well, you were. And you were basing it on what you were feeling. Yeah. I'm just not feeling in love today. I'm going to get it out and start over again.
- [25:32]
F
Yes, I would understand. Covenant.
- [25:34]
A
Exactly. What about the person watching right now that has tried and tried and tried for years. What is the breaking point? What is the, the time when you know, okay, this person is not going to change?
- [25:47]
E
Well, if a person's not willing to take 100% responsibility for their choices, they're not going to change. If a person's unwilling to find out their why, they're not going to change. If they're unwilling to ask for help, they're not going to change, okay? If they're not willing to have accountability, like a polygraph or something like that, they're not going to change. Okay? But if they have all those things going for them, believe in them and work through the process and work through your own healing and, and happily ever after can happen after it wasn't happy, okay? And it's okay for it to go through the healing process and be a real testimony of the.
- [26:19]
A
What about the ones who have worked through or tried to work through the three things that you talked about, whether it's physical, emotional or intimacy, anorexia. They've tried all those, but there is no change. And they experience a divorce and now they are ostracized because of that decision. What would you say to them?
- [26:38]
E
Well, I would say that as long as you have a clear that you gave it 100%, you will never be at the mercy of a critic, ever. You will be shameless and it won't stick with you. So just stick with what you know that your heart has done. If you've been true to giving it 100% and there's no response, there's nothing you can do about that. And I would just say that, you know, because you don't have to take someone else's guilt or responsibility for the.
- [27:03]
A
Well, you know, you may be watching right now and you're just interested in what we're talking about because maybe you've experienced it. But I would say that. But along with all the good information that we're sharing, and even this dvd, the Betrayed man, we're going to talk about that you can get as well. The most important decision that you can make right now is to invite Jesus into the process of what you're going through. And you do that by asking him to come into your heart. And I know you're passionate about leading people to Jesus, and I know that even in your practice, even though a lot of people don't know it, you base it on a lot of Christian principles. So would you just take them on?
- [27:40]
E
Truth is great. And if you want to know Jesus, and maybe you're in a mess and he can make it a message or maybe you've walked away. Just say this prayer from your heart. Just say these words like I'm saying right now. Say, Jesus. Jesus, forgive me of my mistakes. I believe you died for me. I believe you died for me on the cross.
- [27:59]
A
On the cross.
- [28:00]
E
Your blood paid for everything.
- [28:01]
A
Your blood paid for everything.
- [28:03]
E
I make you Lord of me right now.
- [28:04]
A
I make you Lord of me right now.
- [28:06]
E
In Jesus name.
- [28:07]
A
In Jesus name.
- [28:08]
E
And I would just say, welcome home.
- [28:10]
A
Welcome home. Amen. It's just that simple, really. And I mean, I've had people to write in and say, well, I didn't really know what to pray. I just said, jesus, if you're there, I need you. And he showed up, and he will show up for you today. And I just want to say that you're going to make it through whatever you're going through right now. You're not alone. And more than ever, you need to invite Jesus into the scenario of what you're going through, because he's going to bring a presence and a power and a peace that you've never experienced before. And I want you just to embrace that right now. Your dad, quickly, Cindy, went through this with your mom, who's now gone on to be with the Lord. And it wasn't a repairable marriage. No. She left and would not come back. He, of course, ended up marrying a wonderful woman that's been married for many years. She ended up marrying the person that she ran off with. Yes. But your dad made it through, right? He did. I mean, it was tough, but he chose to keep on going. And although critics like Doug was talking about, there'll be people that criticize. They criticized him, and he didn't do anything, Right?
- [29:17]
E
That's right.
- [29:18]
A
And that's very sad. But he does have. Has lived a very full life. He's 91 now. He has beautiful wife. Yes, she is. For how many years?
- [29:26]
F
You made it through that time, too.
- [29:27]
A
I did. I did. God is faithful. Yeah. Your story is another whole story. You can watch. We did a whole table talk on it. You can look that up. Cindy's story is great. Well, we are out of time. But if you're watching and you've been betrayed, I want you to know this doesn't have to be the end of your story. God sees your pain and he wants to walk you through healing. He wants to restore everything that's been stolen. I know it's hard to believe that right now, but it's true. And if you're watching today, that's why the prayer line number's on the screen. We have amazing prayer partners that are standing by, ready to pray with you. And for those of you that prayed that prayer, I want you to call. I'd love to send you the Book of John. It's one of the books in the Bible. It's a great place to start and that's where you need to go next is get you a Bible that you can understand and begin to read the Word of God. And it'd be great for you to find a good church. But just step by step, pray and listen to the Lord. He'll begin to speak to you and talk to you and your whole life is going to be so much better. Doesn't mean you're not going to have heartache. Doesn't mean you're not going to have trouble. Doesn't mean you're not going to have trials. But listen, you're never alone again because Jesus will never leave you. He will never forsake you. Well, I do want to thank Dr. Doug Weiss for joining us. To get the Betrayed Man DVD and more resources, visit jonielam.com healingtime it's such a great DVD and it's how long, Doug?
- [30:53]
E
I think it's about 90 minutes long, but it's like therapy in a box for guys.
- [30:56]
A
Therapy in a box is so good. Always make sure to follow us on our social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes exclusive content. Let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. You can also listen to the Joanie Table Talk podcast, available now on all the major platforms. And I want to thank you so much for watching. Thank you ladies for joining in today. This was really good. We could have gone on probably for another 30 minutes, but I can get you to come back probably as a guest.
- [31:25]
E
With those eyes you could.
- [31:28]
A
Oh, I love it. Okay, we'll see you next time. God bless you. Bye bye. For today.
- [31:36]
B
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D
The good news?
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B
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- [34:08]
E
The stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [34:11]
B
The News Agents we're not just here.
- [34:13]
A
To tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me, John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.
- [34:24]
B
Affairs and the newsagents USA listening to.
- [34:27]
A
The newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the newsagents to start listening well. Addiction. Relapse. Repeat. Countless people feel like they're trapped in this vicious cycle. But it doesn't have to be that way. Today's guest shares how the Holy Spirit can break the chains of addiction and and renew our minds to live in victory. That's for you today. So stay right there. Have a great testimony and no matter what you're going through no matter where you are, no matter where you've been, I want you to know that God loves you today and he has a plan for your life. But before we get to that joining around the table, Cindy Johnston. How are you? Hey. I'm very good. You know, I love stories that show that there's nothing impossible with God. And hearing these stories, and I know that people that suffer with addiction can know that God can see them through. That's right. For sure. Anna Kendall, how are you?
- [35:48]
F
I am great. And I agree with what Cindy said. I love it that no problem that we have is bigger than God. Nothing has God licked.
- [35:56]
A
That's right. Rachel Ann Brown, how are you?
- [35:58]
G
I'm good. I love today's guests because we overcome by the word of our testimony. And I believe that. So people are going to be encouraged by just their transparency and vulnerability, sharing the journey they've walked through. And it's really cool to see where they're at today.
- [36:11]
H
Yeah.
- [36:12]
A
Cindy Murdoch. Testimonies are irresistible. They are irresistible. And I'm thinking about the testimonies throughout the New Testament when Jesus was here walking and doing life. So many miracles. We could probably associate them with addictions and different things we go through in life.
- [36:30]
H
Because the withered hand, the woman with.
- [36:32]
A
The issue of blood, just those people that they had to have a miracle from God to be set free. Yeah. And people can experience that today. Absolutely. Jesus is still alive. Well, we're so glad to have KC and Wendy Treat.
- [36:44]
D
So good to be here.
- [36:45]
A
Pastor's here from Washington State. So glad you guys are here. Appreciate you being here. You know, Years after conquering addiction, Pastor Casey Treat was blindsided by a deadly diagnosis. This day, he and his wife Wendy share their powerful testimony and reveal why true healing takes both faith and action. So talk a little bit about your just coming to know the Lord because you were. I said you were a wild child.
- [37:10]
D
Yeah. That's a nice way.
- [37:12]
A
Is that what your mom would say?
- [37:14]
D
Yeah. Yeah. My mom used to say you hang out with the wrong people. And then other moms would say, casey is the wrong people.
- [37:24]
A
But you didn't really grow up in church or no church.
- [37:27]
D
And, you know, my mom and dad were together until I was 16, 17. Then they were divorced. And right then, you know, you're making life choices, and then mom and dad are not around, and that's a tough time. No excuses. But it added to the problem. I would say this. I was like so many kids with no purpose, with no God, with no reason, no answer to the questions, why why are we here? Why go to college? Why work? You know, I had no answer. So my response was to just kind of medicate the pain, medicate the emptiness with alcohol, drugs, whatever we could get. And of course, that landed me into jail and then in a rehab center, and that's where I became a Christian.
- [38:19]
A
So there was one person that reached out to you and shared what?
- [38:24]
D
Yeah. So the director of the rehab programs, an older black man named Julius, became my spiritual father. And the first thing I remember, he said, big Red, you can change. And I was like, really?
- [38:38]
A
Because you're tall and your hair was. Oh, you had hair down there.
- [38:42]
H
Oh, like our daughters. It was. Looked like that.
- [38:45]
A
Okay.
- [38:47]
H
And skinny. And he. When he went to the program, you know, he is 6 3, and he weighed 140 pounds with hair down to here.
- [38:54]
A
Wow.
- [38:55]
H
So he wasn't big in structure here. He was just so tall, big hair, and that's that.
- [39:01]
D
Okay, so Julius, try to be a rock star.
- [39:04]
A
Julius said, big Red, you can change. And what did you believe that?
- [39:09]
D
Well, I believed him.
- [39:10]
A
Okay.
- [39:11]
D
See, and that's an important point, because sometimes when, you know, when you're addiction, you're struggling with your alcohol, you got marriage problems, health problems, you don't have a lot of confidence. But someone else believing in you, someone else saying to you, we're going to beat this.
- [39:31]
A
And he was a believer, so he knew God, so he wanted to share that with you. How did he do that? Did he ever. Did he share the gospel or did.
- [39:39]
D
He say, hey, no, he wasn't a preacher. He was just a guy who'd been through it, you know, prison, drugs. So he said to me, I get it. I get it. There's no condemnation. There's no judgment. I'm with you. And you can change.
- [39:55]
A
So how did you come to know the Lord?
- [39:57]
D
So that next Sunday took me to church. And that church is now what we call the north campus.
- [40:04]
A
So that's amazing.
- [40:06]
D
We're still preaching.
- [40:06]
A
That was like, how many years ago?
- [40:08]
D
Yeah, it was 50 years ago.
- [40:09]
A
50 years ago. Okay, so when you went to this church, what kind of church was it?
- [40:14]
D
Pentecostal.
- [40:15]
A
What did you think?
- [40:16]
D
Lifting hands?
- [40:17]
A
What did you think, Casey?
- [40:19]
D
I had no clue. But I thought, you know, I was pretty crazy for the devil. I might as well get crazy for God.
- [40:27]
A
So do you remember what the preacher preached? Did you go to the altar? Like, what happened?
- [40:31]
D
Yeah, I mean, I don't remember. I just remember the music was lively. You know, that's how I interpreted it. It was not hymns and they were praising God. And I don't know what pastor preached, but he at the end said, we're going to pray for those who need the Lord. And my hand went up and I got saved. The next Sunday I got baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit. And yeah, a few months later I was in Bible school and met Wendy.
- [40:59]
A
Okay, so I love that.
- [41:00]
H
So that's a living program too. That's a. He was in a live in program because he was either going to go to prison or he had to do something.
- [41:09]
A
So.
- [41:09]
H
Because he'd already ruined. He'd ruined four cars, demolished them, and yet God miraculously had saved him. He didn't break a bone, but he also didn't hurt another person, which is like pretty miraculous in his lifestyle. And so here he is, you know, Julius, who had gone through that. Julius is daily helping him renew the spirit of his mind, which is such a key.
- [41:32]
A
But you're in, you're in Bible school.
- [41:36]
H
Then he comes to Bible school, but you're still.
- [41:38]
D
Yeah, then I would go home and.
- [41:40]
A
Because you have to finish the program.
- [41:41]
D
Yeah.
- [41:42]
A
So. Okay. Wendy.
- [41:43]
E
Yeah.
- [41:44]
H
I love this.
- [41:44]
A
So you tell, you tell the story of what you told your mother. This is going to be fun.
- [41:48]
H
I did. Well, I had like, literally, like I had said to my parents when I was in high school, I'm going to. But I said it kind of angry because we were fighting about something. I said, I'm going to marry me a redhead. So I go to Bible college and here comes my redhead. And seriously, it just, you know, like those. Cause I was brand new. Saved too. Even though I was raised in a good healthy environment, I still didn't get born again until I was 17. Went to Bible school at 18. He comes in one quarter after I was there. I see him from afar. We start to talk and it was just, you know, there's just that. I don't know, I can't describe the fact that I knew that's who I was going to marry.
- [42:24]
A
You didn't tell him that though? No, no, he didn't ask me.
- [42:28]
D
I'm glad she didn't leave with.
- [42:29]
A
That you didn't leave with. And you call your mom?
- [42:32]
H
I called my mom and I said, I'm gonna marry this guy I met at school. And she was like, what? And I said, yeah, but he's still a resident in a drug program.
- [42:42]
G
What was her response to that? I'm sure she was not, you know, good thing.
- [42:45]
H
My mom, you know, my mom and dad were in the Jesus movement, so they had my mom especially had been around people that had kind of walked off the other side, you know, so she wasn't negative towards people. She believed people could change. So she didn't immediately, like, panic, drive up and save me, you know, she waited and met him. And meeting them, you know, at the end, I have to say, my mom and dad. Casey was the best to my mom. He really honored them.
- [43:14]
A
We had to jump ahead. So when did you get interested and ask her out? Like, how much time passed?
- [43:20]
D
Yeah, only a couple weeks. We were in Bible school and I asked her out on a date. But it was a process because we could only date certain days as Bible school students. It was very Pentecostal old school.
- [43:34]
G
The world's crazy.
- [43:35]
D
Yeah. No dating during the week. So we went to the library a lot.
- [43:40]
A
Right.
- [43:41]
D
And then I had to get approval from the rehab center. Cause I was under court order to be there.
- [43:47]
A
But you really wanted to do it the right way. Absolutely.
- [43:50]
G
What was it about Wendy that caught your eye?
- [43:53]
D
Well, Wendy is outgoing.
- [43:56]
A
She's just dumb.
- [43:57]
D
And fearless.
- [43:58]
A
Very friendly.
- [43:59]
D
Fearless. Right. So I'm like, okay, I need to be with somebody like this.
- [44:04]
A
And fun. Yes. And beautiful. Well, there was that, of course. Good for the eyes.
- [44:10]
D
Yeah. So I think that was what brought us together. And then vision, you know, you start talking about, what are we going to do with our lives and purpose, which you needed.
- [44:22]
H
You needed that.
- [44:23]
D
Yeah. And at that time, I was still just trying to get my mind renewed and get closer to God. Well, a couple years later in Bible school, we went to four years of school. Then we started talking about starting a church. You know, that was a big step and big change. I would tell people at the rehab center, I think I'm going to be a pastor. They'd be like, what? Maybe. But it's true.
- [44:50]
B
Right.
- [44:50]
D
When God's doing something in your life, you become so different than what people think you are.
- [44:56]
A
Well, when you truly surrender and you always see it's kind of. We're kind of like a computer that's not hooked up to the Internet. If we're not hooked up to God. Because he knows what he's put on the inside of you better than you do. And he knew the gift, the talents that both of you had. And as you surrendered and began to walk out what those were. And God began to open doors supernaturally, I mean, that's what happened. I mean, everything that you've seen with your church, even built a great church there in the Seattle area, you look back then and you think you could have never Imagined that God would do all he's done. Is that true?
- [45:34]
D
Yes, 100%. You start redefining what's possible. Right. I will say this back with Wendy's story. Her mom prayed, right? She read her Bible every day. She prayed.
- [45:49]
A
You had a grandmother that prayed for you?
- [45:53]
D
Yeah. So my little grandma Roxanne would go to a little local church and pray for me and of course, all of the family. But a couple times I got arrested. My dad wouldn't answer the phone anymore, right. He's like, I'm out. So I called grandma, Grandma, I need bail money. You know, whatever it was, $200 or something.
- [46:17]
H
She didn't have money. She wasn't.
- [46:18]
A
Like.
- [46:18]
D
She wasn't rich.
- [46:19]
H
No, she was, but she.
- [46:20]
D
But she would bail me out of jail on one condition. I would go to church with her that week. Now, I never got it. I never heard anything. It was pretty traditional, kind of a religious environment. But praying grandmas.
- [46:34]
F
That's right.
- [46:35]
D
Praying moms.
- [46:36]
A
It was so seed.
- [46:37]
H
Absolutely.
- [46:39]
D
You just don't know. You might be the difference in the future.
- [46:43]
A
Well, I want to jump ahead and get to what you went through personally being a pastor. There's so many stories I'm sure you could tell. That's not an easy thing for anyone that's pastoring that's watching. Hey, we love you and appreciate you and hang in there. But you received a diagnosis, and it was. I mean, it was life changing because it was not good.
- [47:09]
D
Yeah. So we're building a new sanctuary. You know, we're in it, we're raising money. You know how it is.
- [47:14]
A
The beautiful one that you're in now.
- [47:15]
H
Yes.
- [47:16]
A
You are building that. Okay. And this is 20 years into your ministry.
- [47:20]
D
Right, Right. And I'm healthy. I'm riding my bicycle. Wendy and our hikers, you know, all of that. And I had no negative symptoms, but the insurance company turned down my application because of health problems. So. What health problems? We had to do more testing, eventually find out I have hepatitis C. And years ago, there was no treatment. And my generation, we picked it up in various ways, but it became kind of a small epidemic in my age of guys.
- [47:54]
A
So your liver had already been.
- [47:56]
D
Yeah, it was shutting down. I didn't know it, but it was failing because of cirrhosis from this hepatitis a small virus that just grows year by year. You don't know it.
- [48:07]
G
So how long do you think you had it for?
- [48:09]
D
Yeah, probably since I was 17.
- [48:11]
A
Yeah.
- [48:12]
D
Probably picked it up using drugs. I mean, this is what the doctors tell me, so.
- [48:18]
G
Thank God you applied for that insurance.
- [48:20]
D
Right. The building program almost killed me and saved me.
- [48:27]
H
That's right.
- [48:28]
D
Yeah, but that's the story of a pastor's life, right? Yeah, but I got into a study at the university and some people say to me, why didn't you use faith? I was using faith. I'm believing God. I speak the scriptures, I believe in divine healing. I'm taking communion all the time in the name of the Lord. Right. Everything. And if there's medical opportunities, I tell everybody, use it well, use wisdom.
- [48:56]
A
And I always tell everybody with each case, whatever you're dealing with, you know, really pray and get the mind of God on what he's leading you to do. Yes. And that's what you did.
- [49:05]
D
Yes.
- [49:06]
A
Okay, so you were doing all of that, but you're also looking at what medically can help you as well.
- [49:13]
D
Yeah.
- [49:14]
A
And because they're not giving you a good outcome for this.
- [49:17]
D
No, they were telling me I would die young and I would die with hepatitis C. So we had a doctor in our church who had connections at the University of Washington, got me into a pharmaceutical study. So I took this treatment of like a chemotherapy, shots and pills. 11 months. I didn't want to tell the church because we're trying to raise money for the new sanctuary. So I said, dwindi, it's going to be hard to raise money if we tell them I'm dying. Right?
- [49:50]
A
Exactly.
- [49:50]
D
So the elders knew, the pastors knew.
- [49:53]
A
Sometimes a small group of people that.
- [49:55]
D
Suffering, sometimes you need to decide who will stand with you. And those are the people you talk to.
- [50:03]
G
Everybody needs to know everything that's right.
- [50:05]
A
And everybody's not gonna say the right thing. You need the right thing being spoken around you.
- [50:10]
D
Many people just get scared. Right. And so we'll tell them eventually. But when we win, right now we're in the valley as soon as we get to the other side. So, yeah, that's what happened. 11 months I was clear. And it was hard on Wendy because that chemotherapy, the fatigue week, right. You know, losing a lot of hairs.
- [50:32]
H
Going, did you lose your hair?
- [50:36]
D
Like 90.
- [50:37]
A
So what did the church say when that was happening?
- [50:39]
D
Eventually I had to say something.
- [50:41]
E
Yeah.
- [50:41]
A
Okay.
- [50:42]
H
That's how they knew.
- [50:43]
D
And then I started getting every vitamin, every protein drink, every healing drink.
- [50:50]
A
Right.
- [50:51]
D
I had so much stuff, but everybody was trying.
- [50:53]
A
So you went through 11, but then you got a clear report which was miraculous in and of itself, right?
- [51:00]
D
Yes, it really was. A new breakthrough in the treatment. Now hepatitis C is treatable, so I was a part of the Beginning of that process. God used it in many ways.
- [51:12]
A
So, Wendy, tell me about what you're going through, because this is like an emotional rollercoaster for you. Absolutely. Because you didn't know the outcome, but you did know the outcome.
- [51:21]
H
Right?
- [51:21]
A
Yeah. Right.
- [51:23]
H
You know, and I think when even people that are watching, many of us are the helpers, the ones that have the reports. Yeah. The caregivers, you have reports about whether it's your husband or your grandkids or your kids or anxiety about the economy.
- [51:38]
A
And you're walking through so many different things.
- [51:40]
H
Yes. And to walk through him, it wasn't easy. Chemo is not easy. Anybody that has gone through that with people, the losing the weight and the emotional, they would test him weekly for his emotions because they said it was a suicidal drug, that it causes depression. So. And he was, you know, he's renewing your mind. You know, you use.
- [52:04]
A
Here's the book right here, folks.
- [52:06]
H
Literally, I mean, renewing your mind. It says, and I love the bottom line. It says by grace, because always by God's grace. I think that in our life, as being Christians and being married and being parents, being grandparents and being pastors, is that by grace? It's always that, oh, when you first start off, you're, I will do it. And as you keep walking with God, you realize, oh, forget, I will do it. How about I put my hand in the hand of God? And by God's grace, he would do what God had called him specifically. He would preach. He would do the few things that were really essential, being a father.
- [52:41]
A
But then he had to rest.
- [52:43]
H
Then he was out. I mean, his physicalness, his ability. So I was like, man, I've lost. Okay, I could handle this. But that's where that comes in. Okay, Holy Spirit, I need to be a woman of faith beside, not a whiner, not a complainer. Even though I wanted to whine and.
- [53:01]
D
Complain, she would try to feed me, right, Will you eat this?
- [53:04]
E
Will you eat this?
- [53:05]
H
And he could eat almost nothing. Everything just turned to metal in his mouth. Which people that go through different things, you know, so that's where the Holy Spirit and God and the company of the people that were our friends and people that knew that, company of the church, I call it, that stand with you, to fight with you. You need that company. You need the Holy Spirit. You need renewing your mind by God's grace. Because I put my hand in God's hand.
- [53:35]
A
So, Casey, in the marriage covenant, you know, usually when you get married, there's that for better for worse, in sickness and in health. How important was Wendy in that process for you?
- [53:47]
D
Right, Very important. And it's sad to see so many in our world that end up fighting with the most important people rather than fighting for the relationship. And so Wendy is a great wife, mother, pastor. You know, she lives it, she has it, and she's a very strong helper. But still there's the worry that, you know, she's having to carry things and I'm supposed to be the man and I'm supposed to be, you know, strong. So it was a lot.
- [54:25]
A
After the 11 months, did you start to regain weight and just your clarity and become strong again? I know that was how many years ago that we went through this?
- [54:36]
D
Yeah, I was 20 years ago now. And it took a year to kind of start tasting, eating normal food, get hair back, you know, but it's like a country song. You get your pickup truck back and get your dog back and get your hair back with the Lord. It's all coming back.
- [54:58]
A
I love all that.
- [54:59]
F
You know, I remember hearing you speak a long time ago, several. A few years back. But what I remember about you was how powerful the Word is and how you have always taught on speaking the Word, standing on the word, believing the word.
- [55:14]
A
And that's from the Bible, the Word of God.
- [55:16]
E
Exactly.
- [55:16]
F
The Word of God. And that changes your life. And you've been such a testimony of that, renewing the mind. I mean, what a great testimony.
- [55:24]
A
And what verses stood out to you like during that time?
- [55:28]
D
Yeah, well, I have a list of healing verses that I still speak regularly. You know, next week I'll be 70. So you have friends who talk to you about. Oh, have you been checked for this? Oh, do you have that? You know, it's kind of unusual, normal. We're all dealing with cancer and whatever, diabetes. So I'm always saying, he bore my sickness and he carried my disease, and with his stripes I was healed. 1 Peter 2:24. And people say, oh, Pastor Treat is so old school, he's still quoting the Bible.
- [56:03]
A
Oh, wow.
- [56:03]
D
That's not old school. That's like new school. That's everyday school.
- [56:09]
H
The window.
- [56:10]
F
And I love the fact that you didn't have anyone around you speaking doubt and unbelief. In those early days, you chose the people to be beside you so they would speak faith to you. That's so important too.
- [56:23]
G
What's the biggest lesson you think that the Lord taught you through this journey?
- [56:28]
D
Well, the Proverbs 18, 9 Scripture in the amplified, it says, use every endeavor to Heal your sins. So people have asked me, why don't you use faith? Well, I am.
- [56:41]
F
Absolutely.
- [56:41]
D
I'm believing God. And I'm going to exercise, I'm going to eat right, I'm going to take medicine. If it'll help, you know, use every endeavor. And the other thing is, keep your thoughts clear. Because no matter what battle, it could be a marriage issue, family issue, financial. When your mind goes the wrong way, it's hard to stay strong in the Lord. So keep your mind. You know, set your mind and keep.
- [57:10]
F
Sending those thoughts to you.
- [57:11]
A
Those.
- [57:11]
F
The enemy keeps trying to send you those thoughts, but if you recognize them, you can refuse them.
- [57:17]
A
What about. Do you think that's what inspired you to write the book renewing youg mind 2.0?
- [57:24]
D
Yeah. Here's. In the early years of my Christianity, I began to realize a lot of people get saved. They feel like, well, I'm saved, I'm going to heaven. So, okay, now we'll just wait till I go to heaven. But the Bible says to grow in the Lord, to grow up spiritually, to work out your salvation. So all of that has to do with your soul, your emotions, and your mind. So that's where our message on Renewing the Mind came from.
- [57:54]
A
What would you say to someone that perhaps is new in their faith and doesn't really know where to look? Do they need to memorize Scripture? Write them on cards? What would you recommend that they do?
- [58:06]
D
Yeah, so don't start in Leviticus or Deuteronomy. Read the New Testament, right? And just get familiar with what Jesus did and what the New Testament writers taught. And then Joan is always offering books to the new. Convert Bibles to people connecting with the show. You know, get a few people. You don't need everybody's material. You need a few things that will help you to start to grow, and then you'll get it. It doesn't take long. It takes root. It starts growing up in you, and you realize, oh, this is what's happening. And then you're on your way, you know?
- [58:48]
H
That's why, though, in writing this particular Renewing the Mind, you know, Casey has written this. He's written previously a book on renewing the mind. We just did this one new. And he said, now, Wendy, you have to write in there with me. And I'm like, no, I don't really need to. You do it. And he goes, no, you get to do it, too. And I laughed. I said, okay, fine. The thing about this is, so we're so much. We walked this path For a long time. So when we wrote this book, renewing the mind 2.8 by God's grace, you can say that to me. When a person gets a book that we've lived, we have seen up, downs, in, out, bad, horrible, unbelievable. Okay, but how did we overcome it? That's what we're constantly trying to go to that place in making it simple, making it doable, making it workable so that it's really, I can do it. I think that is the newest Christian to the oldest Christian. That is, oh, God's word is there for me and I can do this. It's not impossible. It is by God's grace. It's by you put your in the big old hand of God that created the heavens and the earth, and he gives you this strength. It's not just by my own ability. A lot of times we. I can do it. I can do it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't do it. I figured that out now. Nope, you can't do it. But God is helping you to overcome. So instead of anxiety, instead of fear, instead of the I'm not important, there's no value in me. Oh, wow, God comes in with his word, which is. That's what renewing your mind is. Thinking his thoughts instead of the world's thoughts. Yep.
- [60:30]
A
Like Jeremiah 29:11, that says, I know the plans I have for you. Yes. Is to give you a future and a hope. And there are promises like that in the word of God. It's so, so very important. Well, we are out of time, but I want you to just be encouraged today and know that no matter where you are, what you're going through, God is with you. And no matter what your past holds, your future can still be filled with hope because God's promises are for you. There's healing, there's peace, there's purpose. All of that is available for you. If you're watching today and you haven't prayed that prayer, if you haven't asked Jesus to come in your heart, I would just ask you to consider just calling out on his name and just saying, Jesus. I don't really understand what these people are talking about, but if you're there, if you're real, I want you to come into my heart today. Forgive me. Come into my heart. And it's just that simple. I always talk about my grandpa just said, God, if you're there. That was his prayer. He didn't know how to pray. He just said, God, if you're there, I need you. And God transformed his life and transformed the direction of our family. He wants to do that for you today. If you have a need in your body, if you're sick, if you're going through a trial, if there's something going on with your family and you just want someone to pray with you, we have amazing prayer partners that are standing by 24 7, always ready to pray for you. So write that number down. We would love to pray with you. I want to thank Casey and Wendy. It went by so fast, right? It is. Oh my gosh, it went so fast. Be sure to pick up a copy of their book renewing the mind 2.0. For more you can visit them online at ChristianFaith US and Christian faith Bible. Church is in Seattle, right? Yes, it is. And where else is it?
- [62:10]
H
Well, it's Federal Way in Millwood Creek.
- [62:12]
D
People in the northwest, South Seattle, North Seattle.
- [62:15]
A
So everybody's welcome. Very diverse, multicultural, extreme.
- [62:20]
D
You'll have fun.
- [62:21]
A
Full of the spirit, great music and and preaching. So those of you that are in that Washington state area, you should check it out. Well, as always, make sure to follow us on all social media. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, exclusive content and let us know how Table Talk is touching your life. We love hearing from you. You can also listen to the Joni Table Talk podcast available now on all the major platforms. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you ladies. Thank you Wendy and Casey. Y' all don't be gone for so long next time and come back. We've got more stories to share, but I'm excited about what God's going to do for you so you be encouraged today. We'll see you next time. Bye bye for today.
- [63:07]
B
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Dive into the stories making the news.
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E
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B
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A
To tell you what's happening, but what why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me, John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.
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B
Affairs and the newsagents USA listening to.
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A
The news agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the newsagents to start listening.
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H
This is an iHeart podcast.