Just the News No Noise with John Solomon and Amanda Head, November 26th, 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Just the News No Noise" Thanksgiving Edition – November 26, 2025

Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Hosts: John Solomon & Amanda Head
Episode Date: November 26, 2025
Featured Guests: David Walker (Former U.S. Comptroller General), Les Rubin (Mainstreet Economics), Rachel Sheffield (Heritage Foundation), Jason Sorens (American Institute for Economic Research)

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Episode Overview

This special Thanksgiving edition of Just the News No Noise delves into the state of American government spending, focusing on entitlement and welfare programs such as SNAP, Medicaid, and Medicare. With a holiday tone, John Solomon and Amanda Head host a series of interviews exploring how bloated government threatens the nation’s fiscal health, the persistence of fraud in benefit programs, and potential reforms toward a leaner, more responsible government. The episode highlights personal reflections, expert insights, and a call for a more active private charitable sector.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Theme: Gratitude and Government Reform

(John Solomon & Amanda Head, 03:55–06:53)

• The hosts reflect on Thanksgiving and what they’re thankful for, connecting personal gratitude to broader national aspirations: “A smaller, leaner, more efficient government that's more responsive to the people and less costly to it.” – John Solomon (03:55)
• The economic outlook and consumer optimism are discussed, along with government spending as a barrier to prosperity.

“The American people would much rather spend that money on those types of things [family, food, celebrations] instead of paying more for a large government.”
—Amanda Head (05:23)

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2. Interview: David Walker on Government Waste and Reform

(09:00–19:23)

Highlights:

• David Walker, former U.S. Comptroller General, calls out government inefficiency, excessive promises, and the “mountains of debt.”
• He prescribes three focus areas for rapid reform:
  1. GAO’s high-risk list
  2. The annual improper payments report
  3. The duplication, overlap, and redundancy report

“The government has grown too big, promised too much, subsidized too many, lost control of the budget. … No wonder we got a problem.”
—David Walker (10:06)

Notable Solutions:

• Walker advocates for a constitutional amendment capping national debt relative to GDP, requiring an Article 5 convention if Congress fails to act.
• He discusses learning from failed attempts at reform (e.g., the DOGE initiative), emphasizing that only Congress can rescind allocated funds.

“There’s three things that have to be focused on like a laser... We need a government transformation initiative... but we also need a constitutional amendment that will limit how much debt as percentage of the economy we can take on.”
—David Walker (10:33)

Memorable Moment:

• Walker draws a parallel to Brazil’s integrated benefits system: “If Brazil can do it, we can do it.” (15:25)

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3. Interview: Les Rubin on Entitlement Expansion and State Control

(25:39–35:09)

• Rubin criticizes federal mismanagement of SNAP and argues for block-granting to states for efficiency.
• He points to political incentives as a driver of program expansion: “Politicians want to give away as much as they can. They’re focused on the next election, not the next generation.” (27:41)
• Discusses difficulties in removing people from programs and the “culture of entitlement.”
• Rubin advocates for public education on national debt and suggests looking to other nations like Argentina for models of reform.

“The closer you get to the people, the better off I think we are. The federal government just seems to manage to get very inefficient in everything they do.”
—Les Rubin (26:47)

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4. Interview: Rachel Sheffield on Welfare Dependency and Structural Flaws

(41:36–50:08)

• Sheffield highlights that SNAP and welfare spending have expanded massively (42 million Americans on SNAP, $100B/year) with little impact on actual poverty reduction.
• She identifies systemic dependency traps and marriage penalties as key flaws.

“We have seen spending increase and we have not seen poverty decline... We’re spending all this money... but we’re not actually helping people move forward, improve their lives, become more self-reliant.”
—Rachel Sheffield (42:18)

• Discusses “Housing First” homelessness policy as an expensive failure, emphasizing the need for addressing underlying causes like job loss and addiction.

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5. Interview: Jason Sorens on Private Charity vs. Government Welfare

(55:22–63:08)

• Sorens argues that government welfare crowds out private charity, referencing the brief SNAP suspension as proof of community-led support surging in its absence.
• He provides historical context: private fraternal societies and charities flourished before large-scale state intervention.

“Welfare programs actually do crowd out private charity. And so the more the government does, the less families and churches and charities do to address those needs.”
—Jason Sorens (56:59)

• Sorens recommends gradual reform over abrupt termination and suggests adjusting Social Security indexation as a practical solvency fix.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Government Bloat and Urgency

“This next year is of critical importance. So it's full court press, pedal of the metal.”
—David Walker (11:09)

On Federal vs. State Program Administration

“If you want something done inefficiently, give it to the federal government.”
—Les Rubin (26:47)

On Entitlement Expansion

“…we just keep expanding the program and that's what's killing that and many other programs.”
—Les Rubin (27:41)

On Marriage Penalties in Welfare

“Marriage is one of the greatest protectors against poverty, against child poverty. … we're creating a barrier to protecting against poverty.”
—Rachel Sheffield (45:43)

On Private Charity

“The more the government does, the less families and churches and charities do to address those needs.”
—Jason Sorens (56:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Reflections and Thanksgiving Theme: 03:55–06:53
• Interview with David Walker: 09:00–19:23
  • High-risk reforms: 10:06
  • Constitutional amendment: 11:17
• Interview with Les Rubin: 25:39–35:09
  • SNAP mismanagement: 26:47
  • Culture of entitlement: 27:41
• Interview with Rachel Sheffield: 41:36–50:08
  • SNAP spending vs results: 42:18
  • Marriage penalty: 45:43
  • Homelessness policy critique: 47:51
• Interview with Jason Sorens: 55:22–63:08
  • Charity crowd-out: 56:59
  • Entitlement reform options: 59:33
• Final Reflections and Traditions: 68:35–73:09

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Tone & Takeaways

The hosts maintain a warm, earnest, and determined tone, blending traditional holiday gratitude with sober, sometimes urgent, analysis of government overreach and inefficiency. The episode balances technical fiscal policy discussion with calls for principled action, both public and private. Contributions from guests underscore bipartisan agreement on the unsustainability of current federal spending trajectories, the necessity for structural reform, and the potential for American communities and values to fill in where government should pull back.

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Conclusion

This Thanksgiving episode underscores the critical juncture facing U.S. fiscal policy—a call for reforming entitlements and reducing government size before national debt reaches an irreparable point. Through expert testimony and spirited discussion, the show highlights both practical policy prescriptions and the enduring value of American civil society. The consensus is clear: meaningful change requires not just political will, but an awakened electorate and revitalized culture of personal and private responsibility.

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For listeners:
This episode is a must for anyone concerned with public policy, the future of American entitlements, and the health of civic institutions. The blend of sobering facts, reforms, and warm, Thanksgiving sincerity offers both education and inspiration.

Transcript

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[John Solomon]

Good evening America. Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to the Thanksgiving edition of JUST THE news. No noise. We hope you're recovering nicely from your turkey coma and getting ready for some football tonight. But before we do that, we're going to give you a little dose of news. I'm John Solomon, of course, reporting to you as always from the nation's capital. And thanks for spending a bit of your Thanksgiving holiday with us. All right, tonight we're going to talk about what we're thankful for and what we aspire to to achieve in the next year. And that is a smaller, leaner, more efficient government that's more responsive to the people and less costly to it. I know we've been talking about this for as long as I've been alive, but the next year is probably one of the last great chances to make a significant debt, whether it's on SNAP benefits or Medicaid fraud or Medicare fraud or all the things this is a one year window to potentially reform government or learn to live with a bloated government until it tips us over into irreparable debt. So we're going to talk a little bit about that tonight. But before I do, and we got some great guests. By the way, the former Comptroller General of the United States, David Walker is going to join us in a second. I want to bring in my amazing co host Amanda Head for a little Thanksgiving moments. I'm thankful for a lot this Thanksgiving. I know you are too. One you being in Washington with us and being our White House correspondent, that has been such a blessing. A more secure border, fewer bad guys on the street in blue cities, and some Signs that this economy could come roaring to life in 26. How about you?

[Amanda Head]

That last one especially because as we are, you know, Black Friday is tomorrow. I feel like so many companies out there are preempting the actual day of Black Friday and they are putting out, you know, Black Friday and Cyber Monday, all these types of deals. But I think that this goes perfectly with the theme of today's show because the American people, you know, they want to participate in the economy. They want to be generous to their friends and family. They want to spend money on food because that contributes to the Thanksgiving table where you have this beautiful event of not only giving thanks for our country, but sharing stories and memories throughout the year with people that we love. And I know the American people would much rather spend that money on those types of things instead of paying more for a large government. So I'm excited to have this conversation today. And, yeah, there's that story published over at Just the News last week about the economy and things that are ticking up. And I think that the American people have something good coming in 2026.

[John Solomon]

Yeah. And there's nothing that will unleash the economy more than just getting the size of government and its burden on our wallets down. I think it's such a simple recipe, but in 35 years, drunken spending hasn't stopped. And there and this window of the next year is going to be the window where so much changes. And the president's been talking a lot more, particularly since the election, about making America more affordable again. It starts by making the government more affordable because from that debt comes down, interest rates come down. It's such a simple recipe.

[Amanda Head]

And even before the debt and the interest rates come down, that fuels consumer confidence. And then you have companies like Walmart that announced last month that they're, you know, their Thanksgiving meal package is down 25% target, announcing that 3,000 of their food and beverages and essential items are decreasing in price to their lowest prices ever. So, you know, to me, it's always kind of a chicken and egg scenario. Yes, there are those governmental markers that in a tangible way bring down prices for the American people and cool inflation and fuel jobs and things like that. But there's also this confident zeitgeist that happens when you have someone in the Oval Office like Donald Trump, who we know does want to shrink the size of government and does want to make life more affordable and does want people to have to pay fewer taxes and less taxes on the government.

[John Solomon]

All right, before we get to some serious news, what's Your favorite dish today.

[Amanda Head]

I am a big fan of ham at Thanksgiving. I don't love turkey. I find it to be dry and not entirely flavorful. So I would say ham. I love meat, and I love protein. I'm trying to lay off the sweets this year because of the whole Maha thing. I know, I know, I know. But I did get a recipe that I intend to make of some. Some pumpkin cookies that are very high in fiber. So if you're one of those people that reacts to fiber, maybe you should avoid them. But they're not a ton of sugar in them, and I think that they're tasty.

[John Solomon]

I'm gonna cure your turkey problem because I'm gonna fry you a turkey. My wife and I are gonna give you our secret recipe, okay? You'll find how moist turkey can actually be when you fry it.

[Amanda Head]

Wait, but aren't you. Turkey fryers are big, though. Don't you have to have, like a big.

[John Solomon]

Well, just get a big turkey. Let's go big.

[Amanda Head]

No, no, no. I don't own the fryer.

[John Solomon]

I got one. Okay, we're going to have you over. We're going to show you what a Solomon fried turkey tastes like, by the way, you get rid of all the fried stuff on the outside, so it's healthy. So you can do maha turkey, but it's so much more moist. We do one in the oven, we do one in the fryer, and it is one of my favorite things to do.

[Amanda Head]

Listen, there are allowances that I make outside of the MAHA initiative and fried things. One of those things. So you're in luck. I'll eat fried turkey all day.

[John Solomon]

All right, we're in for it. All right. From fried turkeys to perhaps making government just a little bit more efficient for all of us. We're very lucky to be joined at the top of the show today by the former US Comptroller General, David Walker. He has spent his whole life trying to help Americans understand where our waste, fraud, and abuse is and how we can fix it. And he's got a plan for President Trump and this Congress to get something big done before the next election. Joining us right now, David Walker. David, happy Thanksgiving. Thank you for spending some of it with us.

[David Walker]

My pleasure. And I'm thankful that the government's back open again. It should never shut down. It's downright stupid for that to happen.

[John Solomon]

It is, isn't it? And it keeps happening. And we don't. We don't fix the stupidity. All right, There is a lot that we've learned, whether it Was the COVID fraud, SNAP fraud, Medicaid fraud. We had a story last week that there's hundreds of billions of dollars over the last 10 years that have gone to people who are dead, but they're still being sent SNAP benefits or Medicaid benefits. You've been flagging this for years. How do we wrestle the talk into action?

[David Walker]

Well, first, the government has grown too big, promised too much, subsidized too many, lost control of the budget. You know, is flying blind in mountains of debt without an instrument panel. No wonder we got a problem. Okay, look, what we need to recognize is that Doge did not do what needs to be done. And what they did, they didn't go about it the right way. There's three things that have to be focused on like a laser. The GAO's high risk list, the improper payments report that comes out on an annual basis, and the duplication overlap and redundancy report that comes out. Those are the things that need to be focused on like a laser. We need a government transformation initiative that will deal with that, but we also need a constitutional amendment that will limit how much debt as percentage of the economy we can take on. That's the only thing that will force Congress to make tough choices on a recurring basis. And then we need to figure out how we're going to get that done through a statutory fiscal commission. I'm working on all of those issues and more. And this next year is of critical importance. So it's full court press, pedal of the metal.

[Amanda Head]

David, I want to go back to what you said about the work of Doge. You know, Elon Musk is no longer involved, but he was heading it up at the beginning, and he's a smart guy. Why do you think he didn't know or maybe wasn't told about those three areas to target in what he was essentially trying to do? How did he not know that? Or maybe it was intentional, I don't know.

[David Walker]

Well, first, he's a very bright guy, and he's got a very successful track record. But I think one of the biggest differences is he didn't understand government. Okay. For example, only Congress can cut spending. You can cancel all the contracts you want, you can cancel grants, but unless the Congress rescinds the funding through a request by the President, then you still have to spend the money. You just spend it on something else. I think he also didn't understand how outdated a lot of the government's information systems are. A lot of the major systems in government use COBOL programming. He probably didn't even know what COBOL programming was because most people got rid of that as far as mainframe systems many, many years ago. So I think he was well intended. But I will also tell you the reason I think they pivoted to hiring freezes and layoffs, voluntary and involuntary, is that's the only way that you can guarantee to reduce spending immediately. However, it can have adverse consequences because it depends upon the people that you're not hiring and the people that you're getting rid of. You know, how do they relate to mission? What are their skills, what's their knowledge, what's their performance? If you don't go it about it the right way, it can actually be kind of productive.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. All right, I want to go to your three ideas because I've been covering GAO reports since I was a young pup and I'm not one anymore. But I've always seen the same problems every year being identified. If you get the improper payments, you do the three things that you've identified, the high risk programs, what are the legitimate annual savings that just tackling those three things could, could add to or deduct from the budget?

[David Walker]

I don't give you a specific number, but I would tell you it would be huge. It would be much, much, much greater than whatever DOGE could have ever done.

[John Solomon]

And by the way, tens of billions or hundreds of billions possible hundreds of billions.

[David Walker]

Okay. And in fact, you know, DOGE actually saved a small fraction of what they claimed because just as I said before, when you say that you cancel the contract or cancel the grant, that doesn't save money. Congress has to rescind the funding.

[Les Rubin]

Right.

[Amanda Head]

Was there anything DOGE did that could stick?

[David Walker]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I think for one thing, DOGE employed technology and artificial intelligence to try to engage in a number of kind of continuous auditing type of activities. I think that's something that clearly we need to learn from. I think it's something that the accountability organizations like the inspectors general and the GAO need to embrace and need to be able to incorporate in part of what they're doing on a go forward basis. So, yes, there was some positive aspects, no question.

[John Solomon]

So I want to get down to a simple one because it seems so obvious to fix, and yet it continues to persist. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins said tens of billions of dollars of SNAP benefits went to dead people. There have been multiple great GAO audits that show the number of dead people who continue to get Medicaid benefits. If we are there some simple things like the Second, someone dies, Social Security tells all the federal agencies to check your books for this person and get them off the books. Is there something that simple that could affix something? Just giving dead people money seems easily fixable.

[David Walker]

Well, you're putting your finger on a very important point. All right, we don't do enough data sharing in the government. We need to frankly, to modernize our information systems. We need to move towards integrating our information systems. The most up to date death register is held by the Social Security Administration. That needs to be shared on a frequent if not real time basis with all the other department governments and agencies. I mean, one of the things ultimately we need to try to do is to do what Brazil did. They have a consolidated integrated information system for all of the federal government. If Brazil can do it, we can do it.

[Amanda Head]

Absolutely. David, I want to ask you something that I guess touches on the philosophical side of things because Democrats, it seems that especially in the last half a century or as well 70, 80 years since the New Deal, Democrats are always in favor of spending more money, giving out more resources to people who may, or as we are seeing in the case of snap, may, may not need it. Is there a way to reverse that thinking for Democrats? Is there a way to incentivize Democrats to pull back on the notion that if you provide these resources, the entitlements to people, that it ultimately wins votes?

[David Walker]

Well, first understand that the only thing that can constrain current and future Congresses is a constitutional amendment. And my view is in the group that I chair, it's focused on trying to get a constitutional amendment that will limit how much debt as a percentage of the economy we can take on through an Article 5 Limited Convention of states focused solely on that issue. And the reason debt to GDP is because it's pro growth. If you grow the economy faster than the debt, even if the debt is going up, you're making progress. And it doesn't tell Congress how to solve the numerator problem. How much of it is spending reductions? Mandatory discretionary, how much is revenue increases? It just says you have to solve it. And if you don't solve it, things happen. That's what is needed. Believe it or not, the Congress should have called a convention to propose a fiscal responsibility as far back as 1979. I brought that to their attention. Now we're trying to make progress on it. And if they don't call that convention, I expect the states will sue in the coming months and that will ultimately go to the Supreme Court.

[John Solomon]

My good friend Mark Meckler has been working on this for years. I know you have, too. It would be an extraordinary moment of history on the 250th birthday of America if that could happen. David, one last question for you before we let you go. There are lots of middlemen that profit in the middle and drive up the cost of government. There are middlemen in the pension, excuse me, in the pharmacy benefits manager sort of industry that cropped up. There are middlemen that pitch snap benefits to people. There are middlemen that pitch benefits for Obamacare and get people on who don't need it or never use it. Getting rid of the middlemen that drive up the cost. How important is that and can it be done quickly?

[David Walker]

It's very important. There's no question about it. And look at health care as an example. I mean, you've got brokers that right now are trying to pitch people on their health care options. Obviously they're going to make money, but the bottom line is that take health. We have to have a fundamental reassessment of how much universal health care is appropriate, affordable and sustainable. We've way over promised in health care. We've way over subsidized. We spend almost 20% of our economy on health care and yet we get below average results. Health care costs continue to grow faster than the economy. We can't do nip and tuck. We need radical reconstructive surgery.

[John Solomon]

Amen. That is something that we definitely need and something we can think about even as we recover from this wonderful Thanksgiving dinner. David, I just want to say this. I've been in this town about 35 years and you have been such a voice of reason, such a voice of constructive criticism and constructive solutions. And if this country is ever going to fix it, I have a strong suspicion you're going to be in the middle of that fix. Your service to your country is so important. Thank you for that on this. Thanks for Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for joining us.

[David Walker]

Thank you, John and Amanda. All the best. Happy Thanksgiving.

[John Solomon]

Happy Thanksgiving, sir. What a great guide. All right, folks, quick commercial break. More on this topic right after these messages. Hey, folks, Americans are losing trust in the system, right? Banks collapsing, inflation eating away savings. And now the Federal Reserve is pushing for central bank digital currency. If that happens, every dollar in your account could be tracked, traced and ultimately controlled. Imagine not being able to donate to a cause they disagree with or being locked out of your money because of your opinions or associations. We don't want that. And once it starts here, folks, it won't be optional. That's why American Alternative Assets created a free guide called the Digital dollar Trap. It shows how to legally move part of your savings into physical gold, a time tested asset that puts you in control. Call 855-Gold-340 or visit johnlikesgold.com that's my website to claim your free guide. That's 855-Gold 340 or johnlikesgold.com Take the time now because once the switch flips there may be no going back.

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[Rodney Williams]

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[Amanda Head]

Welcome back everybody, to just the news, no noise and Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. Again, the government shutdown helped to illuminate some very important things, like the fact that our current rate of spending on entitlements is completely unsustainable. So how do we solve this crisis in way that doesn't hurt low income Americans and what are the consequences if we don't? Joining us now to discuss that, the founder and president of Mainstream Economics, Les Rubin. Les, thanks so much for being here.

[Les Rubin]

Happy Thanksgiving and same to you and thanks for having me.

[Amanda Head]

We are delighted to have you. And you know, throughout the shutdown and then even since then, we have learned about some pretty egregious instances of fraud that are happening far too often. It's not just, you know, a flash in the pan here or there. Secretary Rollins said that they want to kick everybody off, have everybody reapply to figure out if it is critical for them to be on the program. But this is, this is a federal program, but it's administered and managed by the states. If we're going to kick everybody off and then bring people back on, is this the perfect restart opportunity to put more of the power of screening folks on the states instead of the federal government because the federal government screws it all up?

[Les Rubin]

Well, I'll say I'm into that. If you want something done inefficiently, give it to the federal government. Yes, I think it would be far, far better to have the states in control of the whole program. And the federal government, if it wants to pay the money, it can block grants, certain amount of funds, let the states handle it. They will be much more efficient in doing what they do. The closer you get to the people, the better off I think we are. The federal government just seems to manage to get very inefficient in everything they do.

[John Solomon]

So I want to ask quickly, just how did SNAP get so big? When I came to Washington 30 years ago, we still had food assistance back then, but it wasn't nearly as massive in size, proportionate to the rest of the budget. What have been beyond fraud would have been some of the other driving factors.

[Les Rubin]

Well, I think the, the driving factor is the politicians want to give away as much as they can. They're focused on the next election, not the next generation. So what they're interested in is getting votes. And you get votes by giving things to people. And the more you give, the more they vote. The more they vote, the more the politicians give and you get into a circle where all we're doing is giving away our money and no controls over it. So we're a rich country and we should be helping those that are truly needy. But we don't have 50 million people that are truly needy. And so that's, we just keep expanding the program and that's what's, that's what's killing that and many other programs. We never go back to check and see whether or not we should be giving these people certain amount of funds or if they're even legitimately there. The fraud and abuse is all over the government.

[Amanda Head]

Les. If they model their, excuse me, if they, if they model their screening process similar to the way they did before, then they're just going to end up with the same folks back on the program. But if they do a few different things, it'll be a self sifting process and maybe some people will take themselves off the program. Number one being if they return to actual physical food stamps instead of cards that practically resemble credit or debit cards. And number two, if you narrow the parameters of what's available, if they go back to those two, those two items that really were the case for a long time since the inception of the program. Is that a way to get people to take themselves off the program?

[Les Rubin]

Well, I don't know if you can get people to voluntarily take themselves off, but if you make the criteria such that they have to qualify and we go back and requalify people based on truly needy people, I think we can start purging the roles. I'm not even sure that the roles are accurate. There's probably a lot of double dipping and non existent people and the fraud seems to go get rampant. But all of that will help try and pare down the roles. But the politicians don't want to take away anything once they've given it. And that's, that's a ongoing problem. You can never get rid of a federal program. You can't seem to reduce the scope and size of anything. The, the current debacle over the extension of the Obamacare as an example, that was intended to expire, but nobody wants to let it expire. You can't get rid of anything once you give it to people.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, I want to ask about that culture of entitlement because it started obviously for protecting our seniors. It was Social Security and Medicare. Then Medicare came Medicaid, and then Medicaid went to food stamps. But with the Zoran Mandami effect, the entitlement program is going to explode. Now to bus fares and to rent freezing and other things, These have been tried grocery stores, government run grocery stores, these have been tried in socialist countries. They usually end up in bread lines and dysfunctional transportation lines. Is Zohran Mandami and what happens in New York a potential boomerang moment? Meaning it's the place where we realize we don't want government involved in so many things.

[Les Rubin]

Well, I hope so. If he. First of all, I'm not sure he can do all the things he promised. I mean, that's what politicians do. They promise this, that and the other. And I'm not even sure they have the power to do all of that. If he does try government run grocery stores, that's been tried in the Soviet Union and in other places. And what you have is a cheap variety of nothing. You have no choices. The, the availability starts to disappear. So he won't be taking over all the grocery stores. And what they do will, will fail. And hopefully that'll lead to people realizing that socialism doesn't work. It's never worked. It's been tried over and over again. And each person says, well, I'm going to do it right this time. But that never works. It never has. There's not been one instance where socialism has led to a betterment of the living standards for the populace. It just does not work. It's lacking the proper incentives to ever work properly. So it's just grounded on principles that are destined to fail.

[Amanda Head]

Les, I want to ask you about how we get our debt under control, because it's almost a law of diminishing returns of a sort. Except it's a law of diminishing options. The more our debt explodes, the fewer options we have to actually get it under control. So the longer we wait, the lesser the chance of ever actually fixing it. What can Republicans do now? And does it seem to you like they have a fire under their fanny big enough to actually do it?

[Les Rubin]

I don't think the politicians will do it until we get public support. If you stop and think one of the programs that I'm working on right now with some other people is a national public education education, the, the voting public doesn't understand how serious the problem is. And until they wake up and understand that we will not get Congress to fix it, the, the Congress is, is worried about how getting reelected. And let's face it, and if the, if the public doesn't demand it, they're not going to do it. So one of the things that I am working on right now is a massive national voter education campaign to explain, number one, the problem and how serious it is and it will lead us to bankruptcy if we don't fix it. And two, what can we do about it? And entitlements is one of the biggest and certainly the biggest dollar impact on our government. If you look at Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, those three together are costing a billion and a half dollars every year. That can't go on. We have to reform those systems. And then there's many other entitlements. Mamdavi has wanted to give more and more things away. It doesn't work. It won't work. And maybe that's the trigger that will cause people to realize that, hey, we got to be real or else we're going to fail. This country will go bankrupt someday if we don't fix the problem. There, there actually are some very good examples going on right now. If you look at what's going on in Argentina, they had a basket case of an economy and they got an economist elected president and look what's happened. It's almost a miracle. And you look at Venezuela. Yeah, look at Venezuela next in, in South America as well. That's a basket case. But they don't have elections. The elections they have are shams. It's a military dictatorship, basically. And the poor people there are just suffering.

[Amanda Head]

Yeah, it's unfortunate to see. But you're right, Argentina is a great example of how things can change overnight if you get somebody responsible in there. Les Rubin, founder and president of Main Street Economics. Always a pleasure having you here, sir. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Les Rubin]

And happy Thanksgiving to you. And thanks for having me.

[Amanda Head]

Yes, sir. Thank you. All right, everybody, next. How bad is food insecurity actually in this country? We're going to get to that and some more necessary reforms for our benefits programs after this break.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities. Like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Brave podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[John Solomon]

Welcome back, America. Happy Thanksgiving. We study the growth of entitlements and we see them go off the chart as, as does our national debt. But the question is, does that expense actually cover what's needed or is there less hunger, less need than actually what we're spending for? Here to answer that very important question for us is Heritage research fellow on welfare and family policy, Rachel Sheffield. Rachel, good to have you on. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Rachel Sheffield]

Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for having me on.

[John Solomon]

Great to have you on. All right, so SNAP benefits look like a plane taking out of Reagan National Airport. They go straight up. You look at the bell curve. Same thing with health care subsidies when Obamacare started. Are we spending the right amount of money or are we spending more than the need?

[Rachel Sheffield]

Well, we are spending right now we have 42 million Americans on SNAP. That's one in eight Americans on this program. And that is, you know, that's a number that has continued to increase. The cost for SNAP is now over about $100 billion a year. And so what we've basically seen over time with SNAP and actually with the entire US Welfare system, as we have seen spending increase and we have not seen poverty decline, basically it stays flat. So what that is telling us is that we're spending all this money, we have this welfare system, but we're not actually helping people move forward, improve their lives, become more self reliant. What that's telling us is that we have a welfare system that grows and grows and it's just, it's trying to address the symptoms of poverty rather than actually address the causes, rather than actually helping people move forward. So it's trapping people in poverty. We're not helping Americans improve their lives. And that is, that's the problem. That's the big problem here that we're facing with the US Welfare system.

[John Solomon]

Dependency. That's what it is. It's just amazing.

[Amanda Head]

And you know, while the allocation changes from year to year depending on the budget, this is a zero sum game when it comes to these resources. So, you know, I know Republicans have worked hard to make sure that it's only lawful Americans who are receiving benefits for programs like snap. But there are states like California that they will, they, they will work their darndest to make sure that they work around those systems. So if we are able to find a way to make sure that these states are incentivized to boot illegals off of these programs, that's a lot more resources for people who truly need it, isn't it?

[Rachel Sheffield]

Yeah, we want to make sure that our welfare system is going to people who are, who are here legally. We don't want to be giving benefits to people who are not in the country lawfully. That's a problem. Yeah, absolutely. When we look at, you know, again, a welfare system that has just continued to grow, continued to bring more and more people on, you know, those are taxpayer dollars, those are, you know, those are dollars that we want to make sure that are going to the people who need them most. We want to make sure that we are not just kind of creating dependence, that we're not incentivizing people to come to our country illegally to provide, to incentivize that with benefits. So yeah, there's definitely important work to be done to reform our system and that's one of the pieces of this mess that we have that we need to, to clean up.

[John Solomon]

So I think there's a lot of people that find it very popular that maybe in the future or in the current, we tie benefits to work for people because a larger number of people on assistance don't have any jobs, work requirements create a pathway towards self sufficiency. But another one that Heritage does a lot of work on, I think it's really interesting, is removing some of the penalties that encourage single parents and single family, single headed households. The marriage penalties, I know Heritage talks a lot about that, that could have a profound effect. A lot of the SNAP recipients are single headed households.

[Rachel Sheffield]

Yeah, yeah. What you're talking about there is the marriage penalties that exist in programs like SNAP and in basically every other US welfare program there are 90 different programs. It costs well over a trillion dollars a year. And yes, basically all of those penalize marriage. What happens is, you know, if people remain unmarried, then you don't have to have that combined income on the books. Right. And so if rather than if, you know, a couple gets married, then, you know, their benefits decline because suddenly their income goes up, generally speaking. And so yeah, so that's a problem with their system. Especially when we consider the fact that marriage is one of the greatest protectors against poverty, against child poverty. And so when we're creating these barriers to marry, you know, with our welfare system. We are, we are, we're creating a barrier to protecting against poverty, to helping people move out of poverty. So yes, absolutely. Address the marriage penalties. That's a huge problem. You know, work and stable families, those are the two things that are going to most protect people against poverty. And unfortunately, our welfare system undermines both of those crucial, crucial, you know, crucial behaviors.

[Amanda Head]

Shout out to LBJ for incentivizing the brilliant idea of non nuclear families. I want to ask you about the homelessness crisis in this country because I looked into the history of it and it looks like at least in this, in this century under Bush, there was a prioritization of housing, but it was kind of a band aid situation because they weren't addressing the root causes of homelessness. Job loss, psychological issues. And then you had an issue where, because they were prioritizing housing over the main problem, it exploded in this country. Now we're in a new era where the numbers of homeless in this country, especially in places like Southern California, have exploded beyond what they were even five years ago. How do we fix it?

[Rachel Sheffield]

Yeah, that's right. What you're talking about is a policy that the federal government has pushed called Housing First. And like it sounds, it basically focuses on providing housing without any barriers to entry. So what that means is that, hey, let's give people housing. That'll solve the problem. Again, you know, it's this idea that, hey, if we just give people money or benefits, it's going to fix the problem. It completely overlooks the reality that there are underlying human needs. And so again, that's been the policy. By prioritizing programs like that, it drives other programs out that help people, you know, that would say, hey, you know, we're going to provide you shelter, but we need to work on drug addiction or we want to have a requirement that you need to be looking for work or preparing for work or doing something. Housing first. It undermines self sufficiency. The problem with it too is that it's very expensive, as you can imagine, to provide permanent housing. And Deeda research shows us that it actually does not decrease the overall amounts of homelessness. We've seen, as you say, we've seen homelessness increase even as these Housing first programs have been pushed. It doesn't actually decrease the problem. And so we're not really helping people when we're just saying, hey, the problem is, hey, we're just going to solve this by providing a one way transfer. What we really need, see, is programs that are designed to help people improve their lives, to say let's help you with whatever is holding you back and let's not just assume that you can't improve your life, that you can't do better. And that's yeah, the housing first has been a failure and something that needs to be reformed.

[John Solomon]

Status quo sustenance, and what we really need is disruption of that sort of dependency. It's going to be interesting to see if Congress and this President can deliver it. Rachel Sheffield on this Thanksgiving, thank you for all the great work that the folks at the Heritage foundation do every day to make us smarter. Great to have you on the show today.

[Rachel Sheffield]

Thanks for having me.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, great conversation. All right folks, we're going to take a quick commercial break, but more right around the corner.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Les Rubin]

Nothing.

[Rodney Williams]

That's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business. We're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Brave podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Amanda Head]

Welcome back, everybody, to this special Thanksgiving edition of JUST THE news. No noise. We are so thankful that you are spending a bit of your Thanksgiving evening with us tonight. Now, while we are all giving thanks this evening, it is important to remember charity, too. We all here in our country think that charitable giving is a good thing. In fact, our country tops in the world at it. And the government gives out a lot, too, to help those in need. But here at home, and both here at home and around the world. But the problem is the rate of government spending just isn't sustainable anymore. You've heard that throughout all of tonight's show. And one of the consequences of that is if the government fails all of those benefits, they go away for everyone, including the needy. So joining us now to talk more about what we can do, economist with the American Institute for Economic Research, Jason Sorens. Jason, thanks so much for being here.

[Jason Sorens]

Great to be here.

[Amanda Head]

You know, whenever I hear conservatives complain about how much the government spends on welfare and social programs in general, I always have to throw it back at them and say, you know what, if the private sector, if churches, if charitable organizations were doing more, the government would not have to fill in. But unfortunately, we are in a place where so much of this welfare in our country is centralized with the federal government. But we saw this amazing thing when people were worried about their SNAP benefits being canceled on November 1st. It was churches filling their pantries and offering it to their neighbors. It was, you know, private organizations collecting food, collecting cans. They were filling in the gaps. It seems to me that's the way we solve this problem, not with the federal government.

[Jason Sorens]

That's right. And I think the evidence of the last few weeks when the SNAP payments were briefly suspended is that welfare programs actually do crowd out private charity. And so the more the government does, the less families and churches and charities do to address those needs. You know, when we look at the history of welfare spending in this country, 100 years ago, the government spent about 45 times less as a percentage of the economy on welfare than it does today. And it was a Much poorer country. So were people starving in the streets? There certainly was quite a bit of poverty. But you had institutions that would take care of people. You had strong churches, you had strong mutual aid societies. Most Americans belong to some sort of fraternal society that would help you if you fell on hard times. So those things have disappeared because the welfare state took their place, and we've lost something as a result of that.

[Amanda Head]

So, Jason, what happened first, because it kind of sounds like a chicken and egg scenario, was the situation that the government ballooned in its welfare provisions, and therefore churches and charities drew back their efforts in creating these provisions for the communities around them, or was it that these private institutions, churches, whatever, they shrunk back and then the government had to fill in? Which happened first?

[Jason Sorens]

Well, it's a complicated story. I think it's more the first. So we see that welfare programs expanded significantly during the Great Depression, and that that makes sense. There was a lot of poverty then. There was a need for poverty relief. But those programs were permanent. And even when prosperity returned, they grew and grew, in fact, were expanded dramatically during the prosperous 1960s when the economy was growing fast. So, you know, those are the things that we spend a lot on today. And we've seen a decline, really, in private charities since then. So there really is a story here where government spending is crowding out charity. But also, we need to acknowledge that it was sort of an unprecedented economic crisis that drove some of those government programs to begin with.

[Amanda Head]

All right, so SNAP is one of these programs that definitely needs to be reformed. We've got Secretary Rollins saying she's going to kick everybody off and then everyone reapply so that they can re scrutinize all of those applications. And that's great, but there have got to be other social programs, big social programs that could use that same treatment. What are some of the other problematic areas?

[Jason Sorens]

Yeah, well, so, you know, taking taking a big picture view of this, you know, we don't, we don't need to abolish all these programs right away, and that would, that would cause a lot of social instability and a lot of problems for people who've come to rely on these programs. But with some simple reforms, we can gradually shrink them and allow the private sector to take their place. So if we're talking about food stamps, about the SNAP program, the evidence is that there is about $50 billion in improper payments, according to the government's own data, over the last 20 years. So we, we need to do more there to, to ensure that we're not Giving money to people who don't. Don't deserve it, who don't qualify for it. And one of the real problems there is that states administer the program, but the federal government funds it. So states don't really have an incentive to. To weed out fraud. So that's a reform that we could make. If we look at the big entitlement program, Social Security and Medicare, those are also headed toward a track to insolvency. Medicare very soon and Social Security a few years later. There are some actually pretty simple reforms we could make to those programs that wouldn't abolish them or anything like that, certainly not overnight, but that would render them solvent. So, for instance, Social Security benefits are actually adjusted for wage growth, not inflation. So as the economy grows faster, Social Security benefits go up. So that makes it really hard for us, impossible for us really, to grow our way out of that Social Security liability. When we look at what we're facing here, the net federal liability for all of its debt and these entitlement programs amounts to $800,000 per household in America. So think about that $800,000 of debt for your household that we're going to have to pay back. So we definitely need to make some reforms to these programs.

[Amanda Head]

Yeah. Is there a weaning process that you feel like is going to need to be done, especially in the welfare situation with programs like snap?

[Jason Sorens]

I think that. I think so. You know, just a little bit of personal data here. I grew up poor. My family was poor. And I remember we didn't take cash welfare, and we did get some help from charities, but we did take food stamps, at least for one year, that I can recall. So, you know, people do use these programs, but we can gradually reduce them. You know, we are a much more prosperous country now than we used to be, and that's evidenced in, frankly, access to food. When we look at obesity data, for example, we see that 43.9% of adults living in households below 130% of the federal poverty line are obese. That compares to 40.3% of all Americans. So as your income goes down, you're more likely to be obese. So that tells us that most people that are at or below that federal poverty line actually are getting enough food or getting plenty of food. So that that food insecurity that we used to worry about so much, we can start to worry about that a little less. And as we're able to cut spending and cut taxes, that's more money that can go back into the private economy to boost wages and to give people money to donate to charity.

[Amanda Head]

Yeah, absolutely. Jason Soren, some really, really great ideas here. Economist with the American Institute for Economic Research. Jason, Happy Thanksgiving to you.

[Jason Sorens]

Happy Thanksgiving to you.

[Amanda Head]

Thank you so much. All right everybody, John and I are going to be back to wrap things up on this Thanksgiving Thursday right after this last quick break.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey. You'll hear from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities. Like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Welt Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Amanda Head]

Welcome back, everybody, to this final segment of Our Thanksgiving Edition 2025. My first Thanksgiving that we are doing this show together in studio.

[John Solomon]

I love it. Thank you for that alone.

[Jason Sorens]

I am, too.

[John Solomon]

This whole year has been great. Having you here and having you at the White House where you can ask presidents questions of the president. It's such a blessing. And we're going to head into a 2026 where just the news is going to explode in size. We've got a massive increase, a dozen reporters coming on. We just bought Human Events and Post Millennial. I'm very excited about that. We have more acquisitions coming that we're going to announce right after Thanksgiving. And I'm just thankful that so many good people in this country care enough to read and engage what we do and try to make our country better. And on this Thanksgiving, I'm thankful. I'm thankful for Rav and all the extraordinary things that real America's voice does to give real voice to real people, not all of the elitists in Washington, New York, and Hollywood.

[Amanda Head]

Yeah, I'm so grateful for that. I'm grateful to the folks who go to just the news every day and read stories, read real journalism. I'm thankful for your newsroom and, John, the legacy that you've built here of people who value the truth and people who put the truth first over everything else in their reporting. And it's quite a legacy of building.

[John Solomon]

I gave a speech in Silicon Valley just talking about that. We're in the middle of a war on truth and how important facts are to combatting a war on truth. And I'm just so grateful. I mean, my first boss told me, you're only as good as your next story. So that drive is always, what can we get that's the next truth we can tell the American people. But we're surrounded by, you know this because you're here now. So we're surrounded by some pretty remarkable journalists here who just care about facts. That's all they care about. And you're one of them. And it's just such an honor to have such a great team here. It really is. It's fun.

[Amanda Head]

It's an honor to be here. All right, let's get into some of the fun stuff. We talked about our favorite dishes. You said. Wait, I don't think you told me your favorite dish. You talked about your fried turkey.

[John Solomon]

Yeah, I thought I was going to get out. All right. So I have a weird one. I only cook it on Thanksgiving. Judy won't. My wife won't even cook it. It's mine to cook. But I love to make turnips on Thanksgiving only. I know, but I mix in some other things so it doesn't taste so bad. A little bit of carrots, a little bit of cinnamon.

[Amanda Head]

I mean, turnips, not turnip greens. Turnips.

[John Solomon]

No, turnips. Turnips. And then you cut them up? I mix them in with some carrots. Then I mix them in with some brown sugar and some cinnamon. I add a couple other things and they kind of taste like turnips with a little bit of candy put on top. But they're vegetables, so they count towards the healthy thing. But I only eat them on Thanksgiving, the day after. And then we don't cook them all year.

[Amanda Head]

But.

[John Solomon]

But it's one of my favorite dishes. And then I am a sucker for pumpkin pie. I'll just have to confess. Maha aside, I like my pumpkin pie.

[Amanda Head]

Pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie is good. I'm not a big pie person in general, so I opt for other types of desserts. I don't even know what is in this. I know it's a lot of vanilla, but my Aunt Susie makes these things called chess bars, and I'm sure someone in our audience is familiar with them and maybe there's another name for them, but that is absolutely my favorite dessert. But meal wise. Yeah. I mean, ham takes the cake. What's your favorite tradition as far as not the eating side of things, but other things?

[John Solomon]

I like the week before Thanksgiving, the week before Christmas. My family always goes and does something of public service or giving back to the community. We're blessed to live in a great country. And so whether it's going to the soup kitchen or going to the homeless shelter, which my son Josh is just loves to do everything. He's like a rock star when he goes there. Now. We've been doing it like 30 years, but just having that moment of realizing too much is given much as expected and being able to return that to the people around us in your community, it's great. And I'm often reminded of the extraordinary people in this country. We have so much division. We complain about the fighting and the Epstein's and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, every day I see extraordinary things go on you know, the other day a guy collapsed on Madison Square Garden set and Jack Posobic just went and cared for him. I was on a plane, a little baby had a seizure and then so many people came to help. We are still an extraordinary country and I just love that. And doing those things on Christmas and Thanksgiving reminds me of that.

[Amanda Head]

Yeah, well, as you know, the Iron bowl is always the two days after Thanksgiving. And this year, for the first time in a handful of decades, it's going to be a a night game. And for an Auburn Tiger team that has absolutely nothing to lose because it's been an abysmal season. Yeah. And everybody knows you can throw out the record books when it comes to things like that. So my favorite traditions, Iron bowl hunting, obviously spending time with family. So hopefully after this make a bold.

[John Solomon]

Prediction, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon Gruden is Auburn's next coach.

[Les Rubin]

We'll see.

[Amanda Head]

I think that that's probably a good guess. All right, everybody. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. We're so thankful for you. Thanks. Thanks for being with us tonight. We'll see you tomorrow.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams and I'm Travis Holloway welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Rachel Sheffield]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Rodney Williams]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

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What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Amanda Head]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.