Muslim Man Comments on Charlie Kirk! | WE WANT PEACE w/ Professor Penn & Mohamed Amin Ahmed | EP242

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Muslim Man Comments on Charlie Kirk! | WE WANT PEACE w/ Professor Penn & Mohamed Amin Ahmed"

Podcast: Real America’s Voice (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: 242
Date: September 26, 2025
Host: David Penn (Professor Penn)
Guests: Mohamed Amin Ahmed (Average Muhammad)
Main Theme:
A Muslim community leader reflects on the life, death, and legacy of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk. The conversation explores religious unity, freedom of speech, Christian revival in America, peace, forgiveness, and confronting extremism across all backgrounds.

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Episode Overview

This special edition episode brings together Professor Penn (David Penn) and Mohamed Amin Ahmed (a.k.a. Average Muhammad), a prominent Muslim-American advocate, to discuss the “martyrdom” of Charlie Kirk. They address the meaning of Kirk’s death, its impact on American spiritual and political life, interfaith unity, and the importance of peace and forgiveness amidst turbulent times.

Highlights include reflections from both Christian and Muslim perspectives on faith, quotes from Kirk himself, a discussion about extremism, and what real peace could mean in a fractured America.

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Key Discussion Points & Structure

1. Opening & Context (03:06–06:45)

• Introduction of guests and context: following the assassination of Charlie Kirk, there’s national mourning and discussions on unity ([05:14]).
• Quote: “We’re still in the blast zone of this martyrdom of Charlie Kirk … how we can all come together…in search of and in support of one very important concept, and that’s peace.” – David Penn [05:14]

2. Reflections on Charlie Kirk, Vigils, and Mourning (06:45–14:34)

• Mohamed (Average Muhammad) attends a vigil as an openly Muslim man, welcomed warmly.
• Describes unexpected turnout: “800 people in a small park ... all colors, unbelievable. I was like, whoa, something is happening here.” – Mohamed [09:27]
• Sees a spiritual “awakening” among Christians, calling it a “revival.” [12:22]
• Discussion of the mix between political and spiritual at Kirk’s memorial, questioning church/state separation.
• Mohamed urges Christians, as a Muslim, to uphold their faith and not let God be “alienated from the state.” [14:16]

3. Spiritual Unity and The Nature of Evil (14:45–18:45)

• Parallels between the Abrahamic faiths: Satan/Lucifer in Islam and Christianity, struggle between darkness/light.
• Jihad discussed as primarily an internal, moral struggle—not just violent resistance (the “little jihad” vs. “big jihad”).
  • “The fight you really got is between you and your soul.” – Mohamed [17:00]

4. The Legacy and Mission of Charlie Kirk (19:33–26:42)

• “You can kill a man, but you can’t kill his ideas.” Referencing Socrates and Kirk as a martyr figure. [19:33]
• Analysis of Kirk's name ("Free man of the church") and his Midwestern, Christian roots.
• Mention of his family and personal story.

5. Charlie Kirk in His Own Words (29:47–35:49)

• Audio from Charlie Kirk about his priorities: winning souls for Christ and protecting the ability to do so.
• Kirk’s focus: faith, constitutional liberty, battle against spiritual/cultural crises, activism, and educating the next generation.
• Notable Quote: “The first thing is winning souls for Jesus Christ…The second thing: make sure you can do the first thing.” – Charlie Kirk [30:46, 35:49]
• Emphasizes the central “spiritual battle” in America ([32:05]).
• Advice to those afraid of controversy: Accept you will lose friends, but gain wisdom/courage. [39:48]

6. On Separation of Church and State, National Morality, and Civic Duty (46:05–53:12)

• Interplay of faith and politics in America’s founding.
• America as an “experiment” in constitutional self-governance, based on a moral (usually religious) citizenry.
• Discussion of the American "underdog mentality" and foreign influence campaigns stoking division ([49:27]).

7. Extremism and the Dangers of Division (51:09–59:04)

• Dangers of conspiracy theories and scapegoating (anti-Semitism, division via bots/social media, baiting civil unrest).
• Reference to de Tocqueville, freedom of speech, and historical echoes from the 1930s to today.

8. Interfaith Understanding & The Power/Limitations of Ideas (59:34–61:49)

• The enduring power of ideas over individuals (Socrates, Kirk).
• A Christian revival is observed, with young Americans rediscovering faith.
• “He’s right in the middle of the mix…his friends, his young peer group, they're now searching for the truth, searching for God.” – David Penn [61:57]

9. The Five Stages of Grief and Cultural Impact (74:02–78:33)

• Applying the Kübler-Ross model (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) to the public’s response to Kirk’s assassination.
• Celebration of death as a loss of humanity: “How do you celebrate death? You lost your humanity for sure.” – Mohamed [96:17]

10. Forgiveness Across Faiths & Humanity (101:24–111:28)

• Discussion of Kirk’s widow’s public forgiveness of her husband’s assassin, viewed as a Christ-like act.
• Parallels drawn between the forgiveness teachings in Christianity, Islam (referencing Quranic verses), and Judaism (prayer, study, repentance).
• “If you want your God's forgiveness and you can't forgive, how does that work? ... It blocks the forgiveness by being unforgiving.” – David Penn [103:35]

11. Confronting Extremism: Mohamed’s Advocacy (121:53–128:13)

• Mohamed’s anti-extremism work, described in his educational video:
  • Warning signs: desensitization, online radicalization
  • Recommendations for families: challenge hate, do not shame, support positive networks
• “Humanity’s good shall win over evil.” – Average Muhammad [123:44]

12. Approaching True Peace (115:43–Closing)

• Dialogue between a Jewish host and a Muslim guest, affirming American pluralism and the need for peaceful partnership.
• “My children have memorized the Quran before the age of 15…That’s the beauty of this country. I found Islam here.” – Mohamed [117:20]
• Freedom as a complex, hard-won, easily misunderstood value: “Freedom is the hardest thing to learn.” [117:50]
• Conclusion: Peace, dialogue, and personal spiritual preparation underscore the episode.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “We are conservatives. We accept inconvenient truths and sometimes what we call ugly truths.”
  – Mohamed Amin Ahmed, on navigating difficult realities and political differences [06:45]

• “An awakening is happening. The lions are waking up. The people who believe in God are waking up.”
  – Mohamed [12:22]

• “In Islam, what is the role of Lucifer? ... We rebuke him.”
  – David Penn & Mohamed [15:28–15:46]

• “The fight you really got is between you and your soul.”
  – Mohamed [17:00]

• “You can kill a man, but you can’t kill his ideas.”
  – Mohamed [19:33]; Socrates’ influence cited

• “We’re losing the west... Turning Point USA, we operate with a sense of urgency to turn the country back to the ideas of liberty, which is God’s idea, not man’s idea.”
  – Charlie Kirk [30:46]

• “If you want your God’s forgiveness and you can’t forgive, how does that work?”
  – David Penn [103:35]

• “How do you celebrate death? You lost your humanity for sure.”
  – Mohamed [96:17]

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Important Segments with Timestamps

• Reflections on Kirk’s Memorial & Awakening: 06:45–14:45
• Jihad as Personal Struggle: 17:00–18:45
• Charlie Kirk’s Own Words (Audio): 29:47–35:49
• Christian/Muslim/Jewish Forgiveness Comparison: 101:24–111:28
• Mohamed’s Anti-Extremism Video: 121:53–128:13

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Episode Tone & Language

Throughout, the conversational tone is earnest, philosophical, and at times passionate—rooted in faith, personal experience, and a mutual agreement to seek peace and unity despite differences. Both Mohamed and David Penn frequently use religious references, history, and personal stories to illustrate key points, without shying away from painful or controversial subjects.

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Takeaway Themes

• The assassination of Charlie Kirk is viewed as a catalyst for spiritual revival and social/political soul-searching.
• True peace and social cohesion require interfaith respect, forgiveness, and resisting extremism—across all sides.
• Spiritual unity and moral conviction are compatible with defending constitutional republic democracy and vigorous debate.
• Families and communities must actively confront hate, not with shame but with supportive dialogue and education.
• Freedom, as practiced in America, is sacred but difficult; it relies on the moral strength of citizens, not just laws.

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Closing Thought

This episode is a plea for unity, understanding, and the pursuit of peace. Through a rich dialogue between Muslim and Jewish voices, with deep reference to Christian America, the hosts urge listeners to move past fear and hatred, encouraging faith-driven action for a better society.

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“We agree to disagree on many things, but at the end of the day… Are we doing trade now? Are we doing peace now? Yes.”
– Mohamed & David Penn [92:17]

“Peace, shalom, salaam. That’s it.”
– David Penn & Mohamed [92:25]

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Transcript

[Average Muhammad]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Announcer]

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[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Average Muhammad]

Cross our hearts and hope to die by these 50 countries differing so much in race and religion, in language and culture.

[Charlie Kirk]

It is a big idea. A new world order.

[David Penn]

Well, I know they're lying. They tricked me once, but they're not going to trick me twice. The time is now foreign. Welcome back to the Professor Penn Podcast. David Penn, your host. I'm glad to be with you as always for a special edition. Episode number 242 coming to you on Wednesday night, September 24th. Good morning, Tanner. We have back in studio today.

[Average Muhammad]

Someone.

[David Penn]

Who'S getting to be a regular guest, Muhammad Amin, who I have really enjoyed getting to know and starting to forge a relationship with based on the Constitution of the United States. We're a little bit like ebony and ivory, a little bit like ebony and ivory, but when we play together, we make some nice music.

[Average Muhammad]

Hello.

[David Penn]

Nice to have you back in studio, Muhammad.

[Average Muhammad]

Thank you again, professor penn on tiger.com I appreciate you and I appreciate Tana here, who's a wonderful engineer. I hope you could see him. This guy is amazing.

[David Penn]

He's trying to stay behind the wall because he's a man with a young family and he's not quite ready to carry that RPG with. He's not quite ready for that.

[Average Muhammad]

He's a hunter, isn't he?

[David Penn]

Yeah, he's a hunter. That's exactly correct. Young man finding his political chops, establishing a family. I remember when I did that at his age. He's actually doing fantastic. He's involved in politics now. He's affecting his community. He's a great benefit here to our community, Tanner, a public thank you. You guys are welcome.

[Charlie Kirk]

I didn't expect this.

[David Penn]

Well, I didn't either. But as long as we're going down that road, it needs to be set. Muhammad is in today. We're still in the blast zone of this martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. And we talked about discussing the death and its implications to our communities and how we can come together, white and black, man and woman, Jew, Christian, Muslim, how we can all come together in search of and in support of one very important concept, and that's peace.

[Average Muhammad]

Peace.

[David Penn]

Peace.

[Average Muhammad]

Shalom.

[David Penn]

Shalom. Which is a great thing to say because this Wednesday night, this is the end of the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

People are just finishing up their ceremonial after holiday dinners. Hopefully they're Just tuning in right now. Muhammad, thank you for coming in. Let's talk about this Charlie Kirk issue and what your thoughts are and how it affected you. And go ahead. What does that mean? Because the last time you were in here, we played a Turning Point USA video about a 20 minute video which was not particularly favorable to the Somali community here in Minnesota.

[Average Muhammad]

Correct.

[David Penn]

So just at the get go, you coming in to talk about Charlie Kirk all dressed in black mourning. It's quite a statement. It's quite a statement.

[Average Muhammad]

It is. I agree to disagree with Charlie Kak on some things and I agree to agree with him on a lot of things. You see, we are conservatives. We accept inconvenient truths and sometimes what we call ugly truths. He had his true Charlie. Cuckoo. Why I'm here dressed in black, draped in flags all the way from my cufflinks to my tie to my lapel which says a heart and it says God bless America is because we're in mourning. This country is in mourning. Well, most people are in mourning. And not only this country, but it is that has affected the whole world of the Christendom. Something is awakening.

[David Penn]

Something is awakening.

[Average Muhammad]

Something is awakening.

[David Penn]

You can feel it.

[Average Muhammad]

I went to a vigil. A vigil. A vigil.

[David Penn]

A vigil.

[Average Muhammad]

I'm sorry, I got an accent. Sometimes it comes out, but I went to a vigil. I speak three languages and all of them, I got accents in them. Go figure that one out. But I went to a vigil and I wanted to see these people who the hero was. Charlie Cook. I went to the one in Delano. I couldn't make it to the one on Lake. And there was vigils all across Minnesota and all across this country and all across the world. I even saw a haka New Zealand being played.

[David Penn]

When you went to this vigil, how were you received there?

[Average Muhammad]

I was wearing my Islamic heart.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

And I wore a black suit, a different black suit and a black tie and everything else with my flags. And I went there as a Muslim. Everybody could look at me and they could see I'm a Muslim. I was welcomed.

[David Penn]

You were welcomed.

[Average Muhammad]

I was welcome. But what shocked me was I expected this place in Delano to have, maybe because it was organized on a Sunday, a good fellow by the name of Just Engagement, who basically promotes Republican ideals on social media, invited everybody to it and he posted it. And a couple of people organized it in three days. I expected 75, 100 people, maybe 150 people because this was an emotional event. 800 people, my friend. 800 people in a small park under one tent. We were all packed, we were standing. And as usual, like me, I'm not the guy who sits in the front and the center. I'm the guy who's actually in the back. I'm always the back guy. I'm the kid who rides at the back of the bus.

[David Penn]

Okay?

[Average Muhammad]

So I'm always in the back. And all I came there to do.

[David Penn]

Was listen and show your respect.

[Average Muhammad]

Show my respect, but listen.

[David Penn]

And what is this? What did you. What did you. What did you hear? Muhammad, what did you hear? I mean, I know. I know what you heard. This is something people have to get there. Heads around. There was a presentation. There was a presentation and people said things, but what you heard was unique to you.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

So I'm curious. What did you hear from that presentation? How did it move you? What. What did you take from it?

[Average Muhammad]

Well, it moved me. It moved me because number one, what I saw was prayers. I may not be a Christian, but prayers are prayer. And second thing was songs of praise.

[David Penn]

Songs of praise.

[Average Muhammad]

And I heard the songs of praise and I was like, okay, this is cool.

[David Penn]

Songs of praise for Christ, for the.

[Average Muhammad]

Lord, the Lord of the Christians. And I was like, okay, this is different as a Muslim, but I've seen this before. I've gone to churches many times, so there was prayers. Synagogues and Buddhist temples and Shinto temples. And I've read the Torah, the Bible, the Quran, the ve. The Hindu Brahmic teachings. I mean, everything you can imagine, from Buddhism to Confucianism to Falun Gong, all the way down to Tibetan monks.

[David Penn]

Is that typical of Muslim men to expose themselves and study other religions?

[Average Muhammad]

It doesn't have to do with anything to do with Muslim. It's just typical of an inquisitive mind.

[David Penn]

Great. Okay, so there was prayers, songs of praise, and what else did.

[Average Muhammad]

And the second thing was.

[David Penn]

Third thing.

[Average Muhammad]

Memorial.

[David Penn]

Memorial. Okay, morning. Did you see people were actually saddened. Was there actual, real, real emotion at the event where people were actually physically and emotionally affected by what had happened?

[Average Muhammad]

I saw something that amazed me. As a. Running like this, you expect old timers. Usually when we go to things like this, it is 40 and above. You know what shocked me?

[David Penn]

Young people with babies. With babies.

[Average Muhammad]

Plenty of babies there, running around, all colors. Unbelievable. I was like, whoa, something is happening here. And then I looked around and I went to home and I did some research and I realized this is happening in every county, city and area in America.

[David Penn]

What does it mean?

[Average Muhammad]

An awakening is happening. The lions are waking up.

[David Penn]

The Lions. Did you say the lions are.

[Average Muhammad]

The lions are waking up. The people who believe in God are waking up. I told you in the last episode. This is a majority Christian nation. 233 million out of 300 and what?

[David Penn]

We don't know.

[Average Muhammad]

330. I mean, that's. That's.

[David Penn]

We're not sure.

[Average Muhammad]

We go by the last census.

[David Penn]

We need another count. But anyhow, go ahead. So the Christians are clearly in the majority.

[Average Muhammad]

It's a majority Christian nation. It's the biggest. America is the biggest Christian nation in the world. Go check it out. It's a fact.

[David Penn]

Well, I noticed at the Charlie Kirk Memorial. That was on. What was that? On Sunday night. Sunday night at the State Farm arena in Arizona.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

It was overtly Christian in its presentation.

[Average Muhammad]

90,000 people parked it.

[David Penn]

I've never seen anything like that before.

[Average Muhammad]

It's a revival.

[David Penn]

Yes, it is a. A worldwide spiritual revival.

[Average Muhammad]

Not only that, I mean, they couldn't fit in all the people. Not only that, they went to Diamond Stadium in the desert for another 20,000 people to watch it. And guess what? Tens of millions have watched it. Over 100 million so far. Just on TV, on social media, we're talking 10 times that amount.

[David Penn]

So a spiritual revival of Christians.

[Average Muhammad]

Christians have woken up. You're seeing it.

[David Penn]

What does that mean? What does that mean constitutionally? What does that mean for the.

[Average Muhammad]

It was a political rally. It was also a religious rally. The two mixed. It was two beats.

[David Penn]

I thought there was supposed to be a separation of church and state. That's what they're going to say.

[Average Muhammad]

But not the alienation of God and state.

[David Penn]

Not the alienation thereof. Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

Right now what we have in this country is an alienation of God and state. When in. I wrote an article in June. It says, christians, uphold your faith. Christians, uphold your faith. I'm a Muslim saying this.

[David Penn]

Christians, uphold your Christian faith.

[Average Muhammad]

Uphold it in June.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

When you wrote it's not opportunistic. Written after Charlie Kak got martyred.

[David Penn]

Beforehand.

[Average Muhammad]

Beforehand.

[David Penn]

And the reason why you said, uphold the Christian faith. That was your article. You wrote an article. The title was.

[Average Muhammad]

You can actually read right now. Rpoc.org he'll put up a chime for it.

[David Penn]

Rpoc.org okay, there goes Tanner into action. It will be in the description of the video.

[Average Muhammad]

Rpoc.org and it says, Christians, uphold your faith. And the reason why we say that is because we're seeing a Saul Alolinski kind of world here. A tribute to Lucifer is who Saul Alinsky was.

[David Penn]

You're saying Saul Alinsky and the radical left is a tribute to Lucifer.

[Average Muhammad]

If you read his book, the Radical.

[David Penn]

I actually did read his book.

[Average Muhammad]

Did you see the forward?

[David Penn]

I understand exactly what you're saying, but let me ask you a question that I have. I mean, this is a sincere question. I think I know the answer. But I want to ask it in Islam. What is the role of Lucifer in Islam?

[Average Muhammad]

We rebuke him.

[David Penn]

The same Satan, Satan that we have in Christianity.

[Average Muhammad]

Call him Lucifer, call him by any other name. And he goes by many names. Sometimes even they come looking like you and me into our midst. They whisper in our hearts and our souls.

[David Penn]

I, I, I had a very good friend of mine who was a Palestinian. Really a brother. He was my brother for many years. His name was Jihad.

[Average Muhammad]

Ah.

[David Penn]

Can you imagine? David and Jihad, Best friends. This goes back a long time ago.

[Average Muhammad]

Better have good luck passing through that airport security.

[David Penn]

But he told me that on his shoulder he had a good angel and a dark angel whispering in his ears all the time.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

And he believed it.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah. That's why we say we basically telling the angels, one writes the good deeds, one writes the bad deeds. We're saying greetings to you and peace to you, man. You know, at the end of our.

[David Penn]

Prayers, you know, Prince, Prince, the great artist from Minnesota, has a song where he talks about. He's got two sides to him, but they're both friends.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

He addresses the issue.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

How this duality, this kind of a yin yang issue, Light and darkness working together to forge humanity.

[Average Muhammad]

It works in every soul. There's light and there's darkness. Is which one do you let out?

[David Penn]

And this is why Christ said, work on the log in your own eye before you start addressing the cinder in your neighbor's eye. Because that working out of our own. This working out of my own addiction to sin. Well, the thing you mentioned takes a lot of work.

[Average Muhammad]

The word jihad. Jihad means struggle. There is two forms of jihad, okay. Americans know and the world knows of the offense.

[David Penn]

The armed resistance.

[Average Muhammad]

The armed resistance. Guess what?

[David Penn]

That's the little one.

[Average Muhammad]

That's the little one, right? The big one is the yin and yang in your soul.

[David Penn]

The internal battle.

[Average Muhammad]

Light and darkness. It is Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam came from jihad. That and the men were celebrating victory. And we did this for God. We did that for God. We are victorious with this. And he looked at them and he told them, hold on, this ain't nothing, man. This is a little one. The fight you really got is between you and your soul.

[David Penn]

You know, there's a scripture in the New Testament is greater is the man who can subdue his tongue than the man who can subdue a city. Greater is the man that has self control than the man who can conquer a city. What a great scripture. That's the same idea.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, I think I'm losing on that one. No control. The tongue is a bit difficult for some of us.

[David Penn]

Well, this is something that.

[Average Muhammad]

But that is awesome, man.

[David Penn]

This is a goal. I mean, I'm working on this because I. I have this platform that's growing all the time. And I have to be very careful, search for truth, be very careful about what I say. I'm becoming very interested now in unity and in love and in. Because there's so many forces pulling our culture apart. Such as this awful death was intended to create division and hatred. But what I'm hearing you say is what you witnessed in Delano was actually prayer revival, songs of praise, a revival of Christian faith. As you're saying, Christian people must uphold their faith. What does upholding Christian faith mean? Muhammad?

[Average Muhammad]

Well, let's look at Charlie Kak. Today's I'm a model for Charlie Cock. So let's talk about Charlie Kak. Okay, let's start with a statement and the theme for this particular episode. Okay, you can kill a man, but you can't kill his ideas. I've got a. I've got a Socrates.

[David Penn]

I have. Wait a second, I have a. We have a. A community participant from Jamaica. And when he contacts me, he always starts out with the pen. As in my last name is mightier than the sword.

[Average Muhammad]

And that's the truth.

[David Penn]

You can kill a man, but his ideas. That's right, from Star Wars. You know, Darth, if you strike me down, I will be greater than you can even imagine.

[Average Muhammad]

Gangsters know this. I mean Ice cube, not Ice Cube. I still say we don't lie, we multiply. I mean, everybody and every ethos is.

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Check us [e-mail] stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG X and for a limited time save [e-mail] with code fall25. Bring the boom. Xboom.

[Announcer]

There'S a lot going on in Hollywood.

[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[David Penn]

Top of it all? Variety has the solution.

[Announcer]

Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new daily Variety.

[David Penn]

Podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the Bizarre is.

[Announcer]

Actually heading featuring the iconic journalists of.

[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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Shop [e-mail].

[Average Muhammad]

Like I said is the good and the bad the bite on the darkness. There's the light on the darkness now what light means is up to you. None of our business.

[David Penn]

What did what did the light mean to Charlie Kirk?

[Average Muhammad]

That's what I'm going to talk about today. Okay, well, they killed a man on live tv. Put a Bullet in his neck, blooded his microphone. What did the man do? Let's start with his name. Charles is an old northern European name. He comes from basically northern England and Scotland. It means Freeman.

[David Penn]

Charles means free man.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, go look it up.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

And then the word now is Germanic, and it means basically even. I'm sorry, Charles come. Freeman from Charlemagne.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

Charlemagne. The Great. Charles the Great, Okay. You know, means church. It comes from Reformation church in Scotland.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

Back in the 16th century, they call all those churches, and more importantly, the kak means church. So his name is Freeman Church. Free man of the church.

[David Penn]

Free man of the church.

[Average Muhammad]

Did he live to that name or not? Name is an important man. It seems like his father figured it out, and he saw the destiny in this man. Some things don't happen by accident or coincidences in this planet. I don't believe in that.

[David Penn]

You know, it's great that you looked that up, because I looked up Anthony Fauci's name, and Fauci means a sickle, like a knife, that cuts and kills and harvests and cuts down. So, you know, names do mean a lot. And I don't know if the father knew it or if it was some supernatural force bringing that name, but what you're saying is significant in that we get to make up our own personal understandings of what Charlie Kirk meant to each one of us individually. And then there's a collective understanding that's starting to emerge, a narrative about him. But back to his life. Back to his life.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean, the guy was born in Illinois. He's a Midwesterner, like us. The best come from the Midwest. You agree, Tana? The best? Yeah. You know, the best come from the Midwest, the heartland.

[David Penn]

The heartland.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean, the man was a Presbyterian. His wife was a Catholic.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

He got two kids, beautiful kids. The man had kids. Man at 31, a millennial having kids. Salute to that one first.

[David Penn]

Those kids have quite two kids.

[Average Muhammad]

One born in 2022 and one born in 2024.

[David Penn]

They have a lot to live up to.

[Average Muhammad]

I will not mention their names. They deserve their privacy. We need to protect them. We owe them that. And we need to create a country that they deserve to live in now.

[David Penn]

Oh, you're saying it would be a responsibility of all the people who are carrying forward to create a peaceful, successful society where these kids can thrive.

[Average Muhammad]

That's what we owe them. Now, Charlie Kirk, even the Pope prayed for him. A Catholic praying for a Presbyterian. Think about that for a second. And the Pope is from Chicago. Another Midwestern, a White Sox Fun, for God sakes. You know what I mean? I'm a Twins fan. But the Pope prayed for him. People around the world are praying for him. Why? Why are Christians all of a sudden moved by this man? The same man I last podcast I agree to disagree with, because he said Islam is the sword that will cut the throat of the West. And I say, hold on, that's a broad, broad, broad statement.

[David Penn]

It's a broad brush statement.

[Average Muhammad]

Exactly. And then let's talk about. Because Islam is not monolithic, same as Christianity. Christianity is 40,006.

[David Penn]

Okay, let me say this clearly for the people that have a hard time with your. Islam is not monolithic. Neither is Judaism. You know, we have a lot of Americans right now. Look at Jewish people. They think everybody's a Zionist. That's not true. There are Jews that are not Zionists.

[Average Muhammad]

Ever heard of Jews for Peace?

[David Penn]

Of course I have.

[Average Muhammad]

Ever heard of the rabbis who walk around promoting peace?

[David Penn]

Yes. We play them. We play them on the prod. I grew up with people like that.

[Average Muhammad]

I know peace activists in Israel, and I walk with them.

[David Penn]

Well, that's what I think is missing from the dialogue, is about half the people in Israel are opposed to the government policy. It's a parliamentary system. So even though Netanyahu's government does not have a majority in a parliamentary system, he holds power, but on a population basis. I don't know the exact number, but it feels to me, feels like about half the people are opposed to the policy that the government of Israel is pursuing right now. Because it's not a peaceful policy.

[Average Muhammad]

It is democracy. Netanyahu is the prime minister. I mean, the man has come back again. He has more lives than a cut, for God's sakes. Political lives. I mean, the guy, whenever everyone says he's done and out, he pulls a maverick. Comes back, he pulls a maverick. I mean, we can talk about his history on another day. Today is about Charlie Kirk. But what I do know is this. I know a lot of Israelis, Jews, even some who are Zionists who still believe in peace. Zionism means going back home. And they don't like the fact that it caused a knockback which basically displaced Palestinians from their home. There's reasonings for this, but today is about Charlie Kirk. So about his family. He has a sibling called Mary. She's an art curator. His father and mother are still around, and he grew up. He's a college dropout. Figure that one out.

[David Penn]

Okay, here's a clip. Charlie Kirk's life from the perspective of Charlie Kirk. Please play that Tanner, thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't blame people for saying that. I'm a political guy. That is my day job. Right. And so I'm focused on the second most important thing that I think a human being can focus on. So then, of course, everyone says, what's the first thing? Okay, well, the first thing is winning souls for Jesus Christ. Most important thing. Well, then, Charlie, what's the second thing? Make sure you can do the first thing.

[David Penn]

Thanks for coming.

[Charlie Kirk]

God bless you. Thank you for having me. So, Charlie, who are you?

[David Penn]

Where did you come from? How does all this stuff happen?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm a child of God, and Jesus is my savior. And grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, went to Christian Heritage Academy, where I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade, went from there to public school, graduated high school, and I had no money, no connections, and no idea what I was doing. And I started Turning Point usa, and I did that instead of going to college.

[Average Muhammad]

So Turning Point usa, maybe some of.

[Charlie Kirk]

Our audience isn't familiar with it. Talk a little bit about Turning Point, why it exists, and what you hope to accomplish. We're the nation's largest organization that is focused on a daily basis to make sure your kids and grandkids live in a free country. We're losing the west, and we're losing it for a variety of different reasons. In Turning Point usa, we operate with a sense of urgency to turn the country back to the ideas of liberty, which is God's idea, not man's idea. Freedom, which is granted from God, not government. The Constitution, which is a divinely inspired document, in my opinion and the opinion of many others. And this is something that I think that every Christian and any person with a moral conscience should care about. And so. But at Turning Point usa, we do this in a variety of different ways through high school and college chapter development, through our work with the biggest events in the entire movement. We are dominant on digital and social media. We do this through our campus Leadership Project. We do this through our pastor network. There's a variety of different ways that we do this at Turning Point usa, but look, we want to make sure that American values are passed down to the next generation, and we make very clear moral claims that liberty and freedom is not just the best way to live, but it's necessary for a flourishing human existence. What do you consider to be the.

[David Penn]

Defining issues of our day?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, there's several. To kind of bring it to a metaphysical realm. What is truth and what is true? And that kind of explains the whole transgender debate. It explains kind of the idea of racial politics in America. So definitely objective versus subjective existence is one of the biggest issues. No doubt. But if I kind of had to distill it down to the issue that impacts that which impacts all the other issues, which is what we focus on at Turning Point usa, it's education. How we educate young people is one of the most, if not the most important issue for a civilization to continue. That impacts our spiritual health, our mental health, our physical health, our civilizational health. And we've done a pretty poor job of it. We've done the opposite. We've indoctrinated young children, we have filled them up with bad ideas. We've told them to hate themselves and hate the country and believe there's no God. And then there's other issues as well. Declining sovereignty, internationalist forces trying to crush America, A guilt ridden nation that has strayed from the Lord, A weak church, an increasingly weak and passive church with obvious exceptions. Right, obvious. Which we've talked about. And that's not an exhaustive list. So yeah, I mean, these are some massive issues. A spiritual battle that seems as if so many people don't even want to admit exists. So I could focus on any of those, but that's definitely a starting point.

[Average Muhammad]

So it seems like when most people identify with you, rather than immediately say, well, he's a religious person, they refer to you more as a political person. And yet faith is central to who you are, what you do, and your, I'm not going to say your politics.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are formed from that, but your life.

[Average Muhammad]

Approach is basically biblically based on.

[Charlie Kirk]

So how does someone who is so.

[Average Muhammad]

Biblically based find themselves in the midst.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of so many controversial political things?

[Average Muhammad]

How has that emerged, Charlotte? Or how has your voice found its.

[David Penn]

Way into those places?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I've been a Christian since fifth grade and I've always just kind of been a political animal. I've just kind of enjoyed trying to call out lies and deceit and untruth and mistruths, I guess you could say. And I don't like bullies and I don't like the strong terrorizing the weak. I've never liked that. And that's a moral claim, by the way, that comes from the Bible. So politics kind of puts all that together. I will be honest though, in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, I felt a lot more passive about talking about my faith because I was kind of told not to, both by pastors and politicians.

[Average Muhammad]

Wow.

[Charlie Kirk]

If you think about it, pastors are like, don't you dare bring that in here. Don't bring it in the church. I grew up in a church environment that you do not talk about politics, you do not talk about philosophy, you just talk about the Bible. We just do the gospel. That's it. Which, of course is, I believe, unbiblical. Right. Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Esther, Mordecai, Daniel, amongst many others, were all political figures, fasted and prayed for the nation. Even Deborah. Yeah, exactly. The counselors to the king. So there's many examples of that. But then also politicians like, oh, no, no, keep that Christian stuff away. We just care about tax cuts and all this other nonsense. And it was 17, 18, 19. You know, you get older, things start to clarify more. And I met Rob McCoy, who is my pastor and does such a great job, and he really kind of changed my perspective on that. But look, I don't blame people for saying that I'm a political guy. That is my day job. Right. And so I'm focused on the second most important thing that I think a human being can focus on. So then, of course, everyone says, what's the first thing? Okay, well, the first thing is winning souls for Jesus Christ. Most important thing. Well, then, Charlie, what's the second thing to make sure you can do the first thing.

[Average Muhammad]

That's good.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's my day job.

[Average Muhammad]

That's good.

[Charlie Kirk]

So when we talk about believers and.

[Average Muhammad]

Standing up for our rights, what does the Bible say about getting involved? I know you touched on it, but what should we do? I mean, it's more specifically what should we biblically do as believers?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And some people believe that the church or Christians should not comment ever about local politics or about being a citizen. They say all we do is the gospel, and we don't get engaged in those sorts of things. Well, then there's a lot of verses that they're going to have to explain with that sort of a position. Jeremiah 29:7. Demand the welfare of the nation, of the city of which you are in, because your welfare is. Is tied to your nation's welfare. That's the Lord speaking in Jeremiah 29:7. Now, in every church you'll go to, you'll probably hear Jeremiah 29:11, which is one of the most quoted scriptures. For I know the plans I have laid in front of you, but rarely do you hear about Jeremiah 29:7, which is a commandment to care about what's happening in the local nation or city, not to mention Daniel, Esther, Mordecai, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, and let's just focus on Daniel in particular. Daniel fasted and prayed for the well being of the nation that he was in. And so Daniel was faced with a choice that the American church was faced with, that Steve Smotherman was faced with, that legacy church was faced with. It was the Daniel trial. And I'll tell you before we go any further, 98% of American churches failed the Daniel trial. And the Daniel trial was very clear in Daniel 6 there was a conspiracy, a legitimate conspiracy kind of launched against Daniel, where I forget the names of certain individuals that then lobbied King Nebuchadnezzar, basically saying, we don't like this Daniel guy. He has too much influence. Kind of like the American church, isn't it? And we don't like what they're doing. So we're going to pass a series of measures that are in defiance to Old Testament commandments from the Torah. And Daniel's going to have to choose whether or not to obey God or to obey this government edict. And one of the orders was that you are not able to pray in a certain capacity, especially in public and facing the city. So Daniel hears about this and the scriptures tell us that Daniel was grieved by it. But then Daniel made a conscious decision. Daniel opened up the window for all to see and he intentionally disobeyed the government and the king's orders. And he prayed to the city for all the people to see.

[Average Muhammad]

See.

[Charlie Kirk]

So that was an act of what would be first called Old Testament civil disobedience. That was. That's the equivalent of you being here at church tonight. Now all of you know the story of Daniel's in a lot. Daniel the lion's den. That's how he got in the lion's den. We don't always talk about that. Like, oh yeah, he's in the lion's den and God delivered him from that. And of course that's the other part of the story is that God will never forsake his children when you obey his commands. And that's a very important thing. We're the first nation ever founded, ever, where our people who founded the country voluntarily gave up power.

[Average Muhammad]

Wow.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's never happened before. The people who wrote the Constitution got less powerful when they wrote it. It's never happened before. We're the only country where you could say we have a date and a birthday, not at the time. For example, what is China's birthday? They're like, I don't know, like 600 BC. Okay, that's not very specific. Like, what's France's birthday? I don't know. They kind of came up the Fact we have a date's a big deal. Why? Because we made specific moral claims. We said that when in the course of human events, because necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands that ties the one to the other, the separate but equal station, it goes on to say the laws of nature and nature is God. That's a big deal. And we made moral claims of that. And with 55 out of 56 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Bible believing, church attending Christians. We're the most charitable, generous, productive, open minded, accepting country in the history of the planet. So yeah, I think we're exceptional.

[Average Muhammad]

That's awesome.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie, what advice would you give to our viewers who are afraid to take on controversial issues? It is hard. So you just have to admit one truth and then you could chart your course from there, which is you will not be able to get your country back and keep everything you have. It's impossible. You will lose friends, you'll lose contracts, you'll lose relationships, but you will gain in wisdom and in courage and you'll actually end up gaining in friendships that matter. So, no, the fear is totally correct. If those things matter to you, what can we do to stay informed and not get overwhelmed? Yeah, so that's the other thing where people say, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? Learn every day, dedicate time to learn. I love learning. And learning is so important because it will make you less anxious about what's happening around you. And so, for example, if you know the characteristics of a constitutional republic and where they're trying to head us, you have such clarity on what their plan is. And then you'll be informed and empowered on how to stop it. You'll know what the Constitution says and does. Separation of powers, consent of governed, independent judiciary, all these are unique characteristics of a constitutional Republican. And I know a lot of people watching this are just, I feel like I'm losing my country. I feel like I'm losing this. And there's two ways that. There's three ways. There's three ways people react to it, right? They react to it by being despondent. And they just check out, I'm done. Wrong answer.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Daniel fasted and prayed for his nation. Jeremiah 29:7, which is demand the welfare of the nation of which you are in, because your welfare is tied to the nation's welfare. That's the Lord speaking. Wow, that's good. The next category is people get radical. They start believing weird stuff. Stop that. Like if it comes from some sort of weird website that has like 50 numbers in it. It's just stop, stop going down the rabbit hole and all that. I mean, that. That's a big problem.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

So then like, there must be a deeper plan at play. Probably isn't, actually. I know all the actors. Probably not. Okay. Or the third thing you do is just act. Make hope happen. Do everything you can and leave the rest up to the Lord.

[David Penn]

Thank you, Tanner.

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Charlie Kirk]

The only constant in Hollywood is change.

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[Average Muhammad]

Variety and listen now.

[David Penn]

A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh start styles.

[Charlie Kirk]

At NFLShop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long.

[David Penn]

From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all.

[Charlie Kirk]

Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else. And show up ready for every kickoff and big play fan like a pro.

[David Penn]

And shop [e-mail] was quite a tribute in his own words to what he was working on.

[Average Muhammad]

Why not the man speak for himself? The beauty of digital technology.

[David Penn]

I've written a historical record of his commitment to his faith and his country. Yeah, but he said the number one thing is to bring people to God. No, he said it in his own Christian way, said, you know, save souls for Christ for something along that line. But what he was really saying is help people find faith. The most important thing and the second most important thing was make sure you're doing the first thing. That's a pretty clear mission in his life that he had.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean he said it quite clearly. The first thing is he's a child of God, believer in Christ is king. And more importantly, the second thing is he wants to maintain a country where you can be a child of God, a believer in Christ. We all do the same as a Jewish person, you want the same. As a Muslim, you want the same as Buddhists, Hindus, the people across this country, they want to keep the same values.

[David Penn]

Freedom of religion.

[Average Muhammad]

Freedom of religion is essential. It is essential. It is the bedrock of our society. It is the reason why the people give up power on that part where by 55 of the 56 sign of declaration church going believers of Christ that even I know they were Christians. But these Christians decided not to create a theocratic society. Why is that? They created a constitutional republic of democratic means.

[David Penn]

I have my own theory about it.

[Average Muhammad]

I'd love to hear it.

[David Penn]

Well, republicanism as a philosophy, you know, I think it's. Is it the Republic of Somalia? Is it called the. Because it's the Republic of Mexico, for example.

[Average Muhammad]

There are many people calls itself a republic.

[David Penn]

Many countries call themselves a republic. And does this hearken back to the philosophy of republicanism? Probably because all these modern nation states grew out of the empire of Europe, the colonial enterprise. And republicanism was a reaction to the hereditary right of kings and queens who ruled in association with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was wound up and then of course, the Anglican Church for the English downstream. When the, you know, the church bifurcated and, you know, corruption, people say, oh, the church is corrupt. No, the church is not corrupt. The people in the church are corrupt. The institutions are fine. The ideas of the institutions are soaring and majestic. But we the people, because of that light and dark in our souls, well, a lot of people succumb to the dark for power, for money. And I think when the founders, and this is creating a narrative, this is my feeling, my study, when they created the Republic, they were concerned to not have the priests intermediating between the people and the government, because the priests in Europe, in the colonial enterprise, were actually part of the problem, not part of the solution. So I think that's the frame they came out of. So they wanted to keep that priestly class separate from the government class and they erected a whole new group of priests called lawyers.

[Charlie Kirk]

Rule of law.

[David Penn]

So it was an experiment. It was an experiment. And I think that the founders believed, I mean, it's very clear they believe that without a people that were a moral and a just people, this kind of governance, this kind of self governance, I think was called wholly inadequate to govern a people that were not of faith.

[Average Muhammad]

The world was taking bets how long this system will last.

[David Penn]

Yes, it was. And in fact, some of the people, when they were betting, they were actually trying to help it come apart at the seams. And we're still dealing with that to this very day. That's a big problem with us.

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, we've always been an analog as American. Even though we're superpower and powerful and one of the greatest nation and the freest nation on the planet, we're still an underdog mentality.

[David Penn]

What kind of mentality?

[Average Muhammad]

Underdog.

[David Penn]

Underdog, you say the people of the United States have the underdog.

[Average Muhammad]

Because everybody is betting this country is gonna split apart anytime soon.

[David Penn]

You know, I didn't know that because I grew up here. So you're saying that people are putting down bets on failing?

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, no, not only nations are. I'll give you a very good example.

[David Penn]

Okay, can you move the mic a.

[Charlie Kirk]

Little closer to your mouth?

[Average Muhammad]

I'll give you a very good example. Okay, and the good example I'm going to give you is when Charlie Kak got killed, the Russian, the Chinese and other bots from other countries tried to instigate a civil war in America.

[David Penn]

Ah, yes, they did.

[Average Muhammad]

Even the governor of Utah picked up on that because he was briefed on it. This is my area of Field of expertise for 10 years, 11 years are in a non profit until this year when I closed it down and I was studying this information and how it works. So what you're thinking is your friend Charlie is in Iowa, Waterloo is actually a Chinese bot. Basically cranking out a million Messages, getting paid $0.50 per message by the Chinese.

[David Penn]

Government and undermining our social.

[Average Muhammad]

Same thing with many countries. In fact, any sophisticated country in this planet has an influence campaign going in America at any given time to get to you, to do their bidding, which.

[David Penn]

Is to hate one another, pretty much.

[Average Muhammad]

Divide you and rule you. Because everyone is taking bets, the bets are coming in and the bet is this country will tear itself apart if we just kick it or push it a little bit.

[David Penn]

I wonder if the, the GoFundMe or the GoFundMes that were open for Tyler Robinson, I wonder if those were complete bots because I just can't.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's something that like I can see.

[David Penn]

Making so many people mad.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's like nobody in their right.

[David Penn]

Mind actually makes a GoFundMe for this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, we do have lunatics in this country too. Yeah. And that we will talk about later on. And I'd be more than happy to come back to this issue again. Tana. The reason why I will defend Charlie Cack, I'm in mourning. It's because of the Tocqueville. Alexis de Tocqueville, the guy who wrote Democracy in America in 1865. I think everybody should read that book. It clearly defines us.

[David Penn]

De Tocqueville, this is a very famous book. Yeah, and I agree, Tanner, you can even put this in the description, this book name, because what Charlie Cook was.

[Average Muhammad]

Taught, you know, he was a social scientist. He was observing America. Basically the things we do here, we observe America and try define his condition and try, like me, I try to define his condition and try come up with solutions. He said, I may not believe what you say, but will defend to my death your right to say it. Freedom of speech came from that concept and understanding. You have to understand. De Tocqueville's grandfather was marshable. He was an aristocrat born of aristocracy and he came to America to tour America. He later on joined the French government, but he was a foreign affairs minister I think at one time. But more importantly, his grandfather defended the king and he got glitone for it.

[David Penn]

Well, this is what Kirk said, if you study, he said every day, person needs to learn. That's why we're putting the book names in the description because all of Us are helpless unless we're studying and searching for truth together.

[Average Muhammad]

And everything we are seeing today we've seen before. That's the beauty of history. That's why I double in it. And the reason why I double in it is because it's like a replay. Different age, different actors, different people. But same script, same everything, same outcomes.

[David Penn]

Almost the people are interchangeable. Sometimes I say, well, this person is just like this person that lived a hundred years ago. The period that we're in right now really is not very different than the 1930s.

[Average Muhammad]

Yes sir.

[David Penn]

Politically, politically and geopolitically.

[Average Muhammad]

Think about it. What was there in the 1930s? Hui Long? A Socialist party.

[David Penn]

The Socialist party here in this country or in Europe?

[Average Muhammad]

In this country.

[David Penn]

In this country. The Socialist Party.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Average Muhammad]

Huy Long, I think his name was.

[David Penn]

Oh Y. Long. The Kingfish.

[Average Muhammad]

Kingfish from Louisiana.

[David Penn]

Yes.

[Average Muhammad]

Populist, right. And then what else do we have? We have the right, the Dewey's. And we had, we had the left fdr, which was what you would call center left today.

[David Penn]

Well, but there was some very strong communist elements at that time in this country.

[Average Muhammad]

The communists going at it. They were marching across America by the millions.

[David Penn]

And we had the fascist element.

[Average Muhammad]

We had the Bolshevik resolution right here, right here. And they were coming and we had the Communist Party of America until they got banned eventually.

[David Penn]

And it was interesting because the media was so important in how that narrative was spun. And when we wake up, we're boring. You know, for example, there was a senator From Wisconsin, Senator McCarthy who was talking about communist infiltration of our government in the 50s.

[Average Muhammad]

And he went all out.

[David Penn]

He went all out and he was.

[Average Muhammad]

He had a committee, he had hearings and he was calling people and calling them out. And he's a beautiful part that he didn't know.

[David Penn]

Hollywood got called out, Hollywood got called out.

[Average Muhammad]

Some people who made some of the greatest movies on this planet.

[David Penn]

Turns out they were, they were communists, leftists.

[Average Muhammad]

And guess who was informing on them?

[David Penn]

Who was informing on that?

[Average Muhammad]

Ronald Reagan.

[David Penn]

Oh, that's correct. Ronald Reagan was the president of the Screen Actors Guild. He was a, he was a Democrat at the time.

[Average Muhammad]

He was a hardcore Democrat union leader. And because of that experience he became what became a.

[David Penn]

The lion of the conservative movement.

[Average Muhammad]

Hey, I'm quoting him today, okay, like the way I'm quoting Socrates. You can kill a man but you can't kill his idea. That man lived, what he died in 399 BC. I mean the guy died at 399 BC. I'm quoting him a Greek man who believed in the God of Zeus and Mount Olympus and all that good stuff that the Greeks believed in back then. And when he died, you know what he said?

[David Penn]

Go ahead.

[Average Muhammad]

The last word he said was, to my friend Kratos, make a sacrifice to Cleopatras, a God of the Greeks, who's the God of healing. Because I owe a debt to him. To him. To him. Even though he believed in Zeus and other gods, all gods of Bakhtan, he believed that death was a cure itself because that God was the God of healing.

[David Penn]

He believed that death was a cure itself.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah. Basically believed in an afterlife. Greek mythology believed in that. Charlie Kaq is no different. He's a Christian. He believes in Christ. He believes he will be resurrected. And he believes that on that day he will sit with his king of kings, his lord of lords through divinity. He'll be there.

[David Penn]

And it seems there's a fairly widespread belief in American culture that he has gone to heaven. That right now he is. He has ascended to a heavenly realm.

[Average Muhammad]

And I can't speak for the theology depends upon you. And it's none of my business as a Muslim. None of my business.

[David Penn]

Do Muslim people believe in a heaven?

[Average Muhammad]

We do. We call it Jannah. We call it heaven. I'm like Trump, I'm trying to get there, too.

[David Penn]

Trump said he had to work real hard, pretty much.

[Average Muhammad]

And the beautiful parties in heaven, under Islamic understanding, it's God's prerogative. No man can tell you. Only I think less than 20 people were told they're going to heaven while living on earth. Who followed Muhammad?

[David Penn]

Trump actually said there's a clip of him. He was talking about trying to bring peace, I think to the Ukraine, might have been to the Middle East. He's talking about bringing peace, which is part of the subject of tonight's podcast. And he said, I want to go to heaven, and I'm. I'm doing this peace thing because I'm not doing too well on this heaven thing.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, the beautiful part is the Bible tells you something about it. Blessed are the peacemakers. Who are what? The children.

[David Penn]

Children of God. Ah, I got it right here. It's at the top of my list. That's Matthew 5, 9. Blessed are the peacemaker peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Is the. Is the Bible version that I'm working with here.

[Average Muhammad]

King James says children.

[David Penn]

Okay, well, I got a different.

[Average Muhammad]

I need a little bit.

[David Penn]

There's lots of translations.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

And every time there's a translation, there's a slightly different meaning.

[Average Muhammad]

Pretty much Unless you speak good Aramaic. That's how you understand the real meaning of the Bible. There's many versions of the Bible. Like I say, Christianity is not monolithic. But I saw all sorts of Christians come together. There's 40,000 churches and sects in the world.

[David Penn]

If. If Christians are having a revival, which we said at the beginning, a revival that was started, I think, before this martyrdom or this assassination. And I call it a martyrdom, because he's clearly being elevated to a new status because his ideas are going to live on. People are dedicating their lives, their life mission to fulfilling what Charlie Kirk envisioned, which was saving souls. So it's obviously a revival.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, I'm quoting a guy called Socrates. You can kill a man, but not his ideas. The guy got killed because he was told to commit suicide. Because his ideas were immoral, he was considered hateful, and he was considered apolitical.

[David Penn]

Mm.

[Average Muhammad]

I can tell you who Socrates is. Do you remember, like, people who told him to kill himself?

[David Penn]

No.

[Average Muhammad]

Does history record their names?

[David Penn]

No. No.

[Average Muhammad]

That's why. That's why you can kill a man. And a Somali man can sit here and quote a guy who died in.

[David Penn]

399 because his ideas lived on, made him immortal.

[Average Muhammad]

You made him a mata.

[David Penn]

Okay, so the left. It's one leftist. We don't even know if it's a leftist, really.

[Average Muhammad]

But I don't care who it is. But whoever it is, we're not going to assign blame. Let the investigation continue. Cash Patel is on it. Palm Bondi's on it.

[David Penn]

But we know that the ideas of Charlie Kirk are magnified now.

[Average Muhammad]

Yes, sir.

[David Penn]

Tremendously.

[Average Muhammad]

Globally.

[David Penn]

Glo and his idea, he said right there, his number one mission was to save souls. We agree about that. We saw it in a man's own words. So we're living in a Christian revival.

[Average Muhammad]

We're seeing a Christian revival.

[David Penn]

What does that mean? What does a Christian revival mean?

[Average Muhammad]

Let the Christians tell us. I'm a Muslim. We are watching you.

[David Penn]

What do you think? You're a Christian.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

Young man, what does a Christian revival mean to you? I guess to me, it's seeing that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Our culture is starting to focus on it more.

[David Penn]

I've seen it a lot in my.

[Charlie Kirk]

Age group, too, which is really, really refreshing. The conversations are actually being had about beliefs. It seems like the walls are starting.

[David Penn]

To come down about this idea of.

[Charlie Kirk]

Like, don't talk about religion. Don't talk about it. That's where I'm seeing the revival.

[David Penn]

I'm seeing it in media. I'm Seeing more of a respect.

[Charlie Kirk]

Rap artists are even starting to like start speaking about gospel. So I'm just seeing a shift all around. I have a lot of friends personally who have converted recently.

[David Penn]

So even in numbers, when you say converted just from being atheist.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I wouldn't even say my friends were atheists. They were more agnostic, but they didn't understand any religion to actually be able to say, I have my faith in this.

[Average Muhammad]

That was his demographic young man.

[David Penn]

He is the demographic.

[Average Muhammad]

Did you reach him or not?

[David Penn]

He's right in the middle of the mix. He's saying his friends, his friends, his young peer group, they're now searching for the truth, searching for God, which I think is the whole reason I'm doing the podcast. Actually people think I'm doing the podcast because of politics. I was aligned with Charlie Kirk before this awful event happened.

[Average Muhammad]

You're old school about it.

[David Penn]

I'm old school. That's right. If we're going to self govern, we have to have faith.

[Average Muhammad]

I'm a constitutionalist hardcore. And what I've learned is in that article I wrote, christians uphold your faith, which you'll [e-mail] it says clearly we walk by faith, not by sight.

[David Penn]

It takes a lot to walk by faith and not by sight. You gotta let go your conscious mind.

[Average Muhammad]

Our eyes see a lot.

[David Penn]

Our eyes deceive us.

[Average Muhammad]

The devil whispers in our souls. Materialism is basically begging us to do something. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. You know how much money someone like Charlie Kirk walked away from to remain pure to his inner stance? You know how many people would like to influence him, Give him whatever he wants. What Jon o' Keefe said, what is your price? Jonah Keefe from Variety said, everybody has a price. Unless it's your life, then it's priceless.

[David Penn]

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting. It's interesting.

[Average Muhammad]

Unless you put your life on the line.

[David Penn]

Well, for those. That's what. Charlie Kirk not only put his life on the line, he gave his life.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, he was a free man of the churches. Any not Charlie Cook.

[David Penn]

Unbelievable. They had a. They had an event Monday night at the University of Minnesota was a turning point event and I know many.

[Average Muhammad]

I bought the tickets before when Charlie Cock was coming because I had questions for him.

[David Penn]

Okay, great. Did you go to the event Monday night?

[Average Muhammad]

I couldn't get the tickets. They sold out in milliseconds. I know that it was an old stop auditorium.

[David Penn]

I know, I know your friend Walter.

[Average Muhammad]

Hudson Alma mater is the University of Minnesota. Row the Boat Ski, Yuma. I gotta say that, you know, I'm a Gopher all the way.

[David Penn]

You like that, huh?

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, I love it. I'm a Gopher fan. By the way, the football season is looking good. I would say this is a good segue to play. Video 2.

[David Penn]

Okay, video 2. Tanner.

[Charlie Kirk]

Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar, appearing on CNN, had this to say about Charlie Kirk's legacy.

[Average Muhammad]

I just think it was the video.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where it called him Dr. Frankenstein and.

[Announcer]

Said his monster shot him through the neck.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean, obviously, this is a person.

[Charlie Kirk]

And looking at this, this is someone.

[Average Muhammad]

Who was a husband and a father.

[Announcer]

Father.

[Average Muhammad]

And in the days after his shocking death, that happened as a result of.

[Charlie Kirk]

His views or happened as a result.

[Average Muhammad]

As he was sharing his views publicly with people, that people found it jarring to hear such criticism of that.

[Announcer]

In the immediate aftermath of the.

[Average Muhammad]

What I find jarring is that there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are so many people willing to excuse.

[Average Muhammad]

The most reprehensible things that he.

[Charlie Kirk]

He said, that they agree with that.

[Average Muhammad]

That they're willing to have monuments for.

[Charlie Kirk]

Him, that they want to create a.

[Average Muhammad]

Day to honor him, and that they want to produce resolutions in the House of Congress honoring his life and legacy. It is one thing to care about.

[Charlie Kirk]

His life because obviously so many people loved him, including his children and wife.

[Average Muhammad]

But I am not going to sit here and be judged for not wanting to honor any legacy this man has left behind. That should be in the dustpin of history and we should hopefully move on and forget the hate that he spewed every single day.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Billy, you just got back from the Charlie Kirk memorial service in Arizona, which was incredible. What did you think about her comments?

[David Penn]

It's unbelievable to me that in the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wake of somebody's death, this is what we're gonna do. We're going to say things like, they were hateful. They spewed hateful rhetoric every day. We don't need to honor that. Not only is it inhumane and wrong, it's unimaginable to me that this would be somebody's reaction to watching a public assassination that horrified the entire world. I mean, it's almost like she's not reading the room. But it feels like it goes deeper than that. I find it disturbing. I find it also incredibly troubling that somebody would say, well, he did all these things.

[David Penn]

He was a horrible person.

[Charlie Kirk]

He was bad, bad, bad. But with really no evidence. They never seem to furnish the evidence that would make me assume that that is true. But yet they're out there saying it, firing people up and really creating a situation that dishonors somebody's legacy. The service yesterday was a revival of biblical proportions. I mean, people all over the world.

[David Penn]

Were listening to worship music.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, person after person. Basically the entire cabinet was just talking about Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. So listen, I'm going to give Ilhan Omar this one thought, which is this. You know, I think we should start to agree on the most agreed upon historic fact of the ancient world that.

[David Penn]

All the skeptics and all the haters.

[Charlie Kirk]

Agree on, that, yes, Jesus of Nazareth really did die. He was crucified. And I think maybe, Elon, if you're watching this, maybe we should stop asking if he died and start asking why he died. The verse that came to me, Billy, was from John 11, talking about Charlie Kirk's legacy. Jesus said to her, verse 29 or 25, I am the resurrection and the life, though the one who believes in me will live even though they die. And whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

[David Penn]

I think the exact opposite.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not even. I think. Talk about dustbin of history. The exact opposite of true. Charlie Kirk's legacy has sparked something heavenly in this country, if not the world. So to me, what you're just stating is factually incorrect.

[David Penn]

But, Billy, I'll give you the last word, not only factually incorrect.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's talk about Erica Kirk before we go here. Erica Kirk, a widow, a mother of two, left with a baby, two babies without her husband, had to watch her husband die in front of the world in a horrific, horrific assassination.

[David Penn]

She stood on that stage and she.

[Charlie Kirk]

Did the exact opposite of what Omar is doing here.

[David Penn]

What she did was she forgave and.

[Charlie Kirk]

She said, I forgive the alleged shooter, the man who did this. And she did it through tears. And that is the gospel. That.

[David Penn]

And I have to say this.

[Charlie Kirk]

I've said it in every interview before we go. This is really important. The gospel says that if we die to ourselves, we live for Jesus, we accept him, we live a life for him. That even that alleged shooter, even that person who committed this crime, that if he turns his life to Jesus, he can be in heaven with Charlie Kirk, too. That's what the gospel says.

[David Penn]

That is powerful.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's countercultural.

[David Penn]

It's.

[Charlie Kirk]

And here you have somebody who can't even forgive language they didn't like. And you see the disparity. The widow forgiving the murderer and a congresswoman who can't forgive words she thought were mean. So I think it actually really shows us the power of the gospel when we juxtapose the those two things.

[David Penn]

Quite a piece.

[Average Muhammad]

I chose on purpose to bring TBN and CBN Christian broadcasters because I want people to know what Christians are thinking. And the reason why I chose that is because my sister Ilhan Omar and I call her my sister. We are from the same tribe. F same tribe, okay? Same people, same ethnicity, man. Okay, she's from the royalty side and I'm from the soldier side.

[David Penn]

Okay?

[Average Muhammad]

We call Isa Mahmoud. She's called Osma Mahamud. We're from the major 10 tribes and I'm telling you, as close as we are, there's a difference of opinion. And I'll explain to you what a difference of opinion means. I may not agree with what she says the same way I might not agree with what some of the things that Charlie Kaka said. But but, but but we will defend it to the death for her right to say it. Nobody's trying to silence you sister. You're a congresswoman.

[David Penn]

Speak for yourself.

[Average Muhammad]

Speak for yourself.

[David Penn]

Let let your ideas don't chase the.

[Average Muhammad]

Crowds and don't push controversy in America because right now I want to talk about the second stage of this storytelling. We are the five stages of grief.

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Average Muhammad]

It's time to level up your game and bring the boom.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Announcer]

Going on in Hollywood.

[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[David Penn]

Top of it all? Variety has the solution.

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

And listen to the new daily Variety podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

Hosted by co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change.

[Announcer]

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all.

[Charlie Kirk]

Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else. And show up ready for every kickoff. And big play fan like a pro.

[David Penn]

And shop [e-mail] over this. Over this.

[Average Muhammad]

Over the assassination of Charlie Cuck.

[David Penn]

Kubler Ross, I think is the name.

[Average Muhammad]

Of the psychologist who developed 191969 on death and Dying. A book was written. Yeah, you're right. Her name is Kubler Ross.

[David Penn]

It's crazy, isn't it, that you don't see Yang around Professor Penny's. He's walked some of the same roads that you have. Go ahead. Let's talk about. This is very interesting.

[Average Muhammad]

Let's talk about the first part, which is a denial. And these things don't happen in synchronicity. It doesn't happen automatically in the order I'm telling you.

[David Penn]

It just happens.

[Average Muhammad]

It just happens however you deal with it your way.

[David Penn]

And we saw that on X. Because when Charlie Kirk was shot, there was a huge outpouring of he's not dead.

[Average Muhammad]

Denial.

[David Penn]

Denial. That's right. That was a huge outpouring. Remember reading this? And I said, whoa, I saw that. I'm not in denial. But people were in denial.

[Average Muhammad]

People felt numb. Violence always numbs people. It is meant to desensitize people so people fool share the video. But human beings who looked at it and heard the news, they were shocked. They were numb. They felt isolated. I don't care who you are. Anybody on this planet seen that man.

[David Penn]

Being shot like that has A psychological effect.

[Average Muhammad]

A psychological effect on you.

[David Penn]

A chilling effect, actually.

[Average Muhammad]

That's the whole purpose of it.

[David Penn]

That is. It's so reminiscent to me of the 1960s because I was alive when John Kennedy was shot.

[Average Muhammad]

Just told us you age.

[David Penn]

Well, my family says don't do that. Oh, John Kennedy and then Malcolm X and then Martin Luther King and then Robert Kennedy in each killing brought more of a chill upon my generation's heart. A fear. But go ahead. So there is denial.

[Average Muhammad]

The second part is anger.

[David Penn]

We saw that too, didn't we?

[Average Muhammad]

Irrational anger manifests. People get angry. Especially people who like Charlie Kak. People who loved Charlie Kak and people who idolize. Not idolize. That's a bad word for Goldy man. But people elevate elevated who look at him as a golden man.

[David Penn]

And what did they say? They said things that, again, were not constitutional.

[Average Muhammad]

Fools celebrated his death. The people who didn't like him because of his.

[David Penn]

And that.

[Average Muhammad]

That was terrifying because some because of Anti Christianity. Anti Christianity is real in America. I know it is real. When a school down the road here in Minnesota, kids praying can be shot at Annunciation School. Who are Christians?

[David Penn]

Catholics.

[Average Muhammad]

Catholics. By a kid. A kid.

[David Penn]

And we got to look at, well, why what you. We. We have to be brave enough to. To ask ourselves why.

[Average Muhammad]

First time. There's a lot of reasons why. But you got to add one more reason. Anti Christianity, anti Christ. It is real.

[David Penn]

Antichrist.

[Average Muhammad]

It is real. It exists and it manifests itself. And we'll go deeper into it. Towards the end of this episode and Angova Nation led to expulsions and firings. People were so angry, they started taking down social media, calling employers and getting people fired across this country.

[David Penn]

A witch hunt, so to speak.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, it's like an iPhone.

[David Penn]

Eye for what they said.

[Average Muhammad]

For what they said.

[David Penn]

This is what happens when people don't have faith. They're capable of saying things and thinking things that people of faith would be a little bit more hesitant to say.

[Average Muhammad]

It ain't faith. It's common sense. Yeah, I got it.

[David Penn]

Or you ain't just common sense is when someone dies. Keep your mouth shut.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, 50 cents say the best.

[David Penn]

Go ahead.

[Average Muhammad]

I don't know. I. I don't know much about Charlie Cock, but I know when I can. I'm gonna cuss on this one, but I know when to shut the up.

[David Penn]

Yeah, of course, there goes Tanner with a. With getting ready to bleep that out for you. But yes, we got the point. That's right. We know when to shut the up. That's great.

[Average Muhammad]

These people are fools. They didn't know when to shut up. Celebrating a man being assassinated on live tv. A father of two children, a husband, a son, a patriot. More importantly, he was a peaceful and violent man. This is a man who picked up a microphone and argued with you. He didn't shoot you, he didn't kill you. He didn't do nothing. He just came here to convince you his way is right. We may not agree with it and we can agree to disagree with it, but it didn't have to be shot like the way it was shot.

[David Penn]

Well, this brings up a very interesting question for me because the through line between the Jewish community, the Christian community and the Muslim community is faith in God.

[Average Muhammad]

We walk by faith, not by sight.

[David Penn]

I know I do. I mean, and I know that makes me a rare person in this society because I do it to the full extent that I can. But then you have.

[Average Muhammad]

I will never claim to be a good Muslim. Well, I'm a non sinner, so.

[David Penn]

Me too. But you know what? I was. I'm dedicated to putting sin underfoot. I've been working on it for a long time. I'm not there, but I'm getting closer all the time. And I'll tell you why I'm doing struggle it and I'll tell you why I'm doing it because I want to save my country. I want to save faith and freedom and family here in the United States. And I'm willing to do whatever I have to do to do it. But then I go back to your tribal member, Representative Omar, it would seem to me, because she's covering her head.

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, I love that about her. The hijab.

[David Penn]

Yeah, she's.

[Average Muhammad]

And she's a hori too. We gotta give her that. But more importantly, the hijab, my mother wears it, my sister wears it. I like that.

[David Penn]

It's like a key part.

[Average Muhammad]

It's just like a keeper covering your head or somebody who wears a cross showing some respect.

[David Penn]

Right.

[Average Muhammad]

Basically they're saying, I have faith, but. And this is who I am. But this person, or like me carrying my, you know, I mean, as a symbol of my faith.

[David Penn]

But she's wearing the symbol of the faith. And yet she finds Charlie Kirk's presentation of faith to belong in the dustbin of history. That's what I heard her say.

[Average Muhammad]

That's exactly what she said. And before that, she said it in a church and people cheered. In fact, one of the persons sitting next to her was a representative in the house.

[David Penn]

Would that be a family Member of yours?

[Average Muhammad]

No, it was a white dude.

[David Penn]

Okay, okay.

[Average Muhammad]

It was a white. I mean, they're the ones who invited us to the church. And a lot of Minnesota legislators said some stupid things, celebrated that Walter Hudson called the legislatures hostile workforce environment. Do you know how many times Walter has been threatened? Ilhan Omer gets that threat by the seconds, but also lose Walter Hartzell by the seconds from the other side. More importantly, it's across this country. Teachers last regime of Biden were getting death threats. Today, everybody gets death threats.

[David Penn]

Let me ask you about Representative Omar. She's a woman of faith. Yes or no?

[Average Muhammad]

That's between her and her God. I'm. I don't judge. That's my trick. That's my strength. That's my superpower. I don't judge nobody because I believe your faith is personal between you and your Lord. None of my business.

[David Penn]

Okay. You're not a judge. Judge not, lest you be judged. But I'm going to ask nonetheless, if you're a person of faith, how do you support ideologies which are anti Christian or anti faith? It seems to me to be a tension. I don't quite understand how that works.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, that comes up to the third part. Bargaining.

[David Penn]

Bargaining. Okay, let's go.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, Americans are feeling what we call first of all, the anger part. And I'll say this, and I. You didn't ask me to say it, but I'm gonna say this. Conspiracies take over. And you know who always get blamed?

[David Penn]

Oh, yes. Well, lately, it's always the same. Well, actually, it's been going on for a long time.

[Average Muhammad]

5,000 years.

[David Penn]

Yeah. Blame it on the Jews.

[Average Muhammad]

Ah. They killed him. The homositas. You understand what I'm saying?

[David Penn]

Yes, of course.

[Average Muhammad]

And then if not the Jews, now it's all trans community dudes in dresses. Did it's not them. I've seen go viral for a week. The number 33. Because apparently when Kash Patel said we arrested him after 33 hours of a manhunt when his father turned him in. And what does that tell you about the father? Can we pray for that parent and their family? What are they going through, man, to.

[David Penn]

Turn your son in, to give your son over.

[Average Muhammad]

What kind of courage does it take? What kind of patriot is that? To turn on your own child? I don't know if I would do the same if I was in that position. I don't. I love my children too much, maybe. But bargaining starts. Americans are feeling vulnerable and helpless. But we do.

[David Penn]

Well. We're on the professor Penn podcast what we say is you get involved in politics and you take that helpless feeling and you direct it into action. But go ahead. I don't want to.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean, you are a man of action. You're an act person. You're the person that Charlie Kak was talking about, not the three people you say. The first one disengages, you're a six pack, put your leg up and then watch the world turn to. Excuse my French. Or you're the second part who says, ah, this is how it is. I'm just going to look at this, do a little bit of my own and do nothing. Or you're the third part that says, I'm going to act. You are an act person. I am an act person. Town is an act person. And then on the left, there are people who act on their values too, that existed in this country for a long time. So bargaining, you say, what if? And if only. That's the thing that happens. Americans will love Charlie Kirk or admire him, even those who disagreed with him, negotiating only with himself, higher power and God. I saw that with the Christians when I went to Delano or Feet to change circumstances of our country.

[David Penn]

If we do that, if I do this, God will do that. In fact, Charlie Kirk said, it's really baked right into the cake.

[Average Muhammad]

I went to a vigil. I said it right. Yes, vigil, expecting 100 people. And I saw 800.

[David Penn]

And Charlie Kirk said, God will not abandon the righteous believers or something to that effect. And that's an important part of the faith. But that is kind of a bargaining chip. If I become righteous, you have to be very careful with this because you don't become righteous. You don't walk by faith and not by sight to get paid. You do it without any thought of reward. You do it because you're called upon.

[Average Muhammad]

To do it means doing good for.

[David Penn]

The sake of good, doing good for the sake of good, without reward.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, you do good for the sake of the good. You teach the bad to do good. And more importantly, you fight evil.

[David Penn]

We need people to fight evil, which is what Charlie Kirk was. Was doing.

[Average Muhammad]

But we got to define it, what is evil? Because to two different people, it's like peace. No two opinions. And I've walked around this planet talking about peace from Africa to Asia to coast to coast America, parked synagogues, churches, schools, auditorium, civic arenas. I've talked to tens of thousands of people and I've reached over 500 million people talking about peace as average Mohammed. I'm a citizen diplomat. I told you in the first podcast, not only once, but twice. Once given by Global Ties USA 2018, the same award Maya Angelou got and the second one from the awesome State Department of the United States of America. They called me citizen diplomat Muhammad Average Muhammad. That was the organization I led in pursuit of peace. That's the whole point.

[David Penn]

That's why we're sitting here today. Somali man, Jewish man. We're both American citizens. We recognize. And you said something very thought provoking, what is evil? Because everybody has an opinion. One man's evil is another man's good. That's a problem, isn't it? Clarifying that issue.

[Average Muhammad]

We need base benchmarks. We need a clear understanding history. We need ways. And what is the legalistic means of it. Because we live in a secular democracy called America. And Charlie Kak was a constitutionalist.

[David Penn]

What is the process for determining what is good and what is evil? It's a search for truth. Each citizen, and this is a point you made, I think quite eloquently, each citizen is entitled within their own realm, their own realm as a sovereign citizen, to search that out for themselves.

[Average Muhammad]

True, but we don't want to atomize the process. Like Ed Tocqueville talked about in the book For Democracy in America and the Condition of America. He said the problem with democracy is eventually individual rights become atomized and there'll be nothing coherent societal. That's what we're living with under now. Everyone is an individual. It's me, me, me, me. There's no we left. This country is built on we the people.

[David Penn]

So the fragmentation has reached the point that the fabric of society is pulling apart, breaking down, by Allah.

[Average Muhammad]

I got kids turning out to be.

[David Penn]

Furies, you know, turning out to be. What did you.

[Average Muhammad]

Fury. Ever heard of the word fury?

[David Penn]

Fury?

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Penn]

I do not. I'm not familiar with what that means.

[Average Muhammad]

The kids who believe the animals and cats walk around with tails.

[David Penn]

Oh, furries. Oh, furries.

[Average Muhammad]

I got an accent. You say better.

[David Penn]

Let me interpret for you from time to time. I thought he was seeing fury.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

We got kids turning out to be full of fury also. So we got furries and fury. It's the same thing, but a little.

[Average Muhammad]

What did Teddy talk about that video that I presented? Because I chose that video. I'll scroll through thousands of his videos and came up with that one from tbn.

[David Penn]

It's a good one.

[Average Muhammad]

It's a good one because he talks about values, which he said is a Christian value. That's a Christian side of him. I'm a Muslim, but he Said it's a moral person's value too. Constitutional rights, separation of state and church. More importantly, republican values of governance. Not micromanaged, but not controlled by the government. Too much.

[David Penn]

Want to shrink that government down.

[Average Muhammad]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The last podcast we did, we said we're paying what, 40% of our taxes to the government in fees and taxes. I mean it's overwhelming. Yeah.

[David Penn]

You work half the year just to pay the tax.

[Average Muhammad]

Pretty much crazy. And you have to understand in the same Bible that Charlica believes in and the Torah and the Tanakh, they tell you the Jews back then under Pharaoh, Pharaoh who's basically the worst leader you can live under, who enslaved the Jews, they revolted for just 25% of the TE.

[David Penn]

That's. Hey, I think our founding fathers revolted for just a tax on tea.

[Average Muhammad]

Taxation without representation, forget about it. They put on Indian uniform and threw the tea into the sea. The Boston Tea Party.

[David Penn]

Come on now. We put up with all this control, all this management. Why? Because. Why? Because we're not self governing. See, this is the thing that this, the strategy is self governance, the tactic. Self governance is the strategy. The tactics that we're going to take to reclaim the country. Charlie Kirk laid them out. One thing he said you have to study every day. You have to search for truth. You have to organize, you have to get together with people, you have to talk to them, you have to create lists. You have to continuously work in your neighborhood to create constituencies and coalitions of people that are like minded. So when it comes time to vote, we get the people out to vote.

[Average Muhammad]

Professor Penn invites Mohamed Ahmed, popularly known as average Mohammed. Tyler is the engineer. None of us are getting paid for this, so tireget.com please tireget.com buy the tires and if you use the code, what am is it?

[David Penn]

Today we're having a special, a fall [e-mail] where you can get any tire you need at the right price. Plus we'll put them on right in your backyard. The service is five minutes from your house. Today a special. If you go to the tiregette.com site, tire.com and go through the process at the end, just before you check out, it'll say promo code. Put in promo code A and average Muhammad. Today a special AM promo code. An extra 3% off the tire portion of your purchase. And Muhammad is exactly correct. We're trying to stay in business here. We got a very expensive and beautiful studio. Isn't it beautiful here? It's nice, right?

[Average Muhammad]

Man, I dig this joint.

[David Penn]

It's Great, isn't it?

[Average Muhammad]

I'm not gonna lie about that one.

[David Penn]

It's badass, isn't it?

[Average Muhammad]

But someone spent good money on it. For God's sake, subscribe, share these videos. That's how we pay for the bills out here. And go buy tires@ Tireget.com because this man doesn't have to. I mean, he's a Jewish man. He's a man of God. He believes that he's on a path. I'm a Muslim man. I believe I have a walk in life. And both of us agree on one thing.

[David Penn]

Peace.

[Average Muhammad]

That's it.

[David Penn]

We're f. We're struggling towards a dialogue. I thought about this, you know, with.

[Average Muhammad]

Me, it's peace, trade, some form of partnership. Do we have a form of partnership?

[David Penn]

Well, we. We're making a.

[Average Muhammad]

We agree to disagree on many things, but at the end of the day, are we doing trade now?

[David Penn]

Yes, we are.

[Average Muhammad]

Target.com Business of America is business. And the second thing is we're talking about peace.

[David Penn]

Peace.

[Average Muhammad]

Shalom, Shalom.

[David Penn]

And what we're trying to do here now. And I thought about this and, you know, getting ready for this podcast, what a great opportunity it is for me to talk to people all throughout the world that follow you and let people know that there are people like me that believe in peace and are seeking forgiveness and reconciliation. And I. I went and I looked up many different verses in the Quran about peace because I wanted to read them, see it with my own eyes. But before we get there, let's finish these. These stages of grief.

[Average Muhammad]

Acceptance.

[David Penn]

Acceptance, okay?

[Average Muhammad]

That's all. Depression. People get depressed, man, because they used to getting videos from Charlie Kag. They're used to getting talking points, they're used to getting ideas. And more importantly, a quiet state of grief settles in that takes time. The full weight of the impact of Charlie Kak assassination and what people call metadom. Easier to hit hard. That moment will come. Now, what happens then is. After that is the fifth part, which basically the way it was written was acceptance. Americans, not all, like I said, some of them have lost their humanity to celebrate the death of a young man, a Christian man.

[David Penn]

I want to say this again. This was really well said. I said this on a podcast. I can't remember which one it was. You know, when I was a young man, maybe seven, eight years old, studying the history of World War II because I dabbled in history, also something we hold in common. And I saw a film, there's a film of the dictator of Italy, Mussolini, which I learned from you that When Somalia gained its independence, it was from Italy.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah.

[David Penn]

And I know that Italy had attacked Ethiopia. And I learned that Somali men went to fight with the Ethiopians, even though Somalian and Ethiopian men and women have conflict. But not when the Europe.

[Average Muhammad]

They need peace, too. I mean, those Ethiopians, Somali Eritrea, I mean, you're already poor. You have a market that you can integrate. Ethiopia is 500 billion. Somalia is 20 billion. Eritrea is. Is about 35, 40 billion. I mean, can you imagine what kind of prosperity peace will bring? You know what they're investing in in all those three countries?

[David Penn]

Guns.

[Average Muhammad]

That's half your GDP right there.

[David Penn]

Guns. But I.

[Average Muhammad]

And what do guns do?

[David Penn]

They are the opposite of peace. Well, they can allow people to defend themselves, defend their sovereignty.

[Average Muhammad]

No, no, no, no. In terms of when it's only your number one priority and not peace. Oh, look, man.

[David Penn]

Then everybody suffers.

[Average Muhammad]

When I say that, people look at me and they say, you're crazy. And I say, hold on. Those borders, while written up in 1865. Who says we can, through the figment of our imagination, say, nobody exists. We have a free market. We do the European thing, and we organize our countries. And we all. Kushite. Eritreans are proud. Ethiopians are proud. Somalis are proud. And there's many nations within those nations. It's not one monolithic nation.

[David Penn]

Many tribes.

[Average Muhammad]

Many tribes. In Ethiopia alone, we're talking about 46 to 52. In Eritrea, there's seven in Somalia, if you break down the tribes. Don't get me started on that one. There's seven. Major. Major organization of. Of tribes. But at the end of the day, everybody needs bread.

[David Penn]

But I. But you said something. I want to highlight it because we've been struggling for a way to talk about this. I know Royce has been working on it. All the videos of these American citizens celebrating the death you roasted. They've. This is beautiful. They've lost their humanity.

[Average Muhammad]

How do you celebrate death?

[David Penn]

You lost your humanity for sure.

[Average Muhammad]

I was in the extremist countering business for 10 years. You know what that does to you. I will share with you towards the end what its purpose is and what it's done and where you are at at the spectrum of extremism. And I will show you a video I made as average Muhammad. Okay, now, let's. You know, I mean, we've covered this. This part, and there's a lot of things that go into it. Now, I would love to hear your comments on peace of Islam, because I want to talk about a prayer here and the prayer I'm talking about is the prayer that forced our sister. And I call her my sister. She's a Catholic, but she's my sister. I'm a believer of Alam Ali we call her how and Adam. And we are all born through that. That's what I believe. I don't believe we came from a monkey. I just don't call it faith by sight. Not by sight, but by faith. And more importantly, what I do believe is we all brothers and sisters on this planet whether you believe or don't believe. And in the Quran it says we created it in nation and tribe so you may know each other. And the goal is to know each other. And when you know each other, you become friends, don't we? And that's the whole point. Love your neighbor. Now in the moment of love, this woman Erica, who just a couple of weeks ago her husband got killed in front of her on live national tv finds out she just found out she's a widow. She got to be a mother and a father to two kids. And more importantly, the whole world saw the killing of her husband, stood in the State Farm arena. And what did she say?

[David Penn]

Forgiveness. She forgave the man who killed her husband.

[Average Muhammad]

He said a lot of things, but that's my takeaway as a Muslim.

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[David Penn]

Top of it all? Variety has the solution.

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[David Penn]

Podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

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Hosted by co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change.

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Open your free iHeartradio app search daily.

[Average Muhammad]

Variety and listen now.

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[David Penn]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[David Penn]

Forgiveness Forgiveness well, how does forgiveness work in Islam? Is Islam a forgiving religion?

[Average Muhammad]

Well, today is Charlie Kak Memorial. Let's start with the Christians.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

And then we go to the Islam and then we go to the Judaism.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

In Christian, she was basing it based on our Lord's prayer. Let me recite the prayer. Oh our Father, who art thou in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

[David Penn]

Amen.

[Average Muhammad]

I'm a Muslim reciting a Christian Lord's prayer. If you change the word Father to Allah, you can say this prayer in a mosque. If you change the Lord or Father to Adonai, you can say this prayer in a synagogue and the people will not know the difference.

[David Penn]

I agree with you.

[Average Muhammad]

Now Islam says in Suratul Nur 2422 encourage pardon and overlooking Asking, would you not love for Allah to forgive you? You have to understand everything Muslims do. We begin with Bismillah, in the name of God, Ar Rahman, the Merciful, Ar Rahim, the Lord of Grace. Everything from before you eat, before you go into the bathroom, before you have intercourse with your wife. Hopefully with your wife. I'm advocating for that now. Never used to before, but at the end of the day, you get what I'm saying?

[David Penn]

Yes.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean. I mean, it's just Thanksgiving.

[David Penn]

Praise and Thanksgiving.

[Average Muhammad]

Praise and Thanksgiving. So basically, if you want your God's forgiveness and you can't forgive, you gotta. How does that work?

[David Penn]

Doesn't work. No, it blocks. This is very interesting because one of the things we do on the podcast we try to lay out, how do you make this supernatural thing work in your life? Well, it's written down. There's rules for it. You don't have to make it up. You have to study. Like Charlie Kirk said, how could you expect God to forgive you if you're unforgiving? Well, of course God could forgive you, but actually you're blocking the forgiveness by being unforgiving.

[Average Muhammad]

You're blocking it, an artery having a heart attack. And the heart attack, the part that's causing the heart attack, the brokerage is your lack of forgiveness. And I'll explain to you why that means. In the Quran, it says, surat al e Imran, chapter 3, verse 134, describes the righteous as those who pardon the people, for Allah loves the doers of good. Did Erika do that?

[David Penn]

She did that.

[Average Muhammad]

Is she not righteous then?

[David Penn]

It was a righteous act.

[Average Muhammad]

But there were at that particular moment, the whole world was looking at her, and what she could see was stunned.

[David Penn]

Everybody was stunned that she said that.

[Average Muhammad]

She said what guided her.

[David Penn]

What guided her was her Christian faith gospel. She operationalized her faith at the most difficult moment when a person is filled with grief and anger.

[Average Muhammad]

She walked by faith, not by sight. She saw a husband being shot, but she walked by.

[David Penn]

And she gave an example to every American citizen, black, white, old, young, gay, straight, rich, poor, that we can forgive each other for the sins of this country, the sins that we've done to each other, the sins that we've done ourselves, we can forgive ourselves.

[Average Muhammad]

The things we do to ourselves.

[David Penn]

That's what I'm saying. The sins we do to ourselves, we can forgive ourselves. We can forgive each other and start anew. Forgiveness allows a fresh start.

[Average Muhammad]

It allows you to let go of.

[David Penn]

Anger, a new beginning and guilt, and.

[Average Muhammad]

More importantly, begin life. And I want to talk about Surah al shura, verse chapter 42, verse 40, states that while retribution from an evil act is permissible, whoever pardons and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. This woman basically pardoned her husband's killer. I don't have that courage, man.

[David Penn]

That's a very honest thing for you to say.

[Average Muhammad]

I will kill you.

[David Penn]

That is a very honest thing. Because I was watching actually at home, and my wife looked at me and she said, how can she do that? First thing she said was, eye for.

[Average Muhammad]

An eye and we all go blind. But I will kill you, man.

[David Penn]

And I said right away, I totally. I said, you don't understand Christianity. I said, I understand it. I think it was the thing to do. She set an example for our whole society. But it doesn't mean the whole world. But it doesn't mean that the whole world.

[Average Muhammad]

I'm a Muslim, and I'm shocked.

[David Penn]

Well, that's very powerful, what she did. And also, I want to say, it doesn't mean that that assassin, if he's actually convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers, it doesn't mean that that assassin escapes earthly justice. This is a spiritual realm and the earthly realm, they're related, they coexist, but there's differences. I think there's a great line. There's a movie. I saw this movie. I love this movie. There's an actor, Denzel Washington, was in a great movie called man on Fire, and he plays a. A killer. And he says, I'm all for people being forgiven by God. I'm here to arrange the meeting.

[Average Muhammad]

Let's go sort you out. Right, that's exactly.

[David Penn]

But it was really a striking theological moment. And of course, Judaism talks a lot about forgiveness and reconciliation.

[Average Muhammad]

Let's go there. Judaism, go ahead. Forgiveness is found in both the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible and the rabbinic traditions. You're familiar with this. I'm grew up, but the people are not. People out there are not. And I'm a Muslim saying this and the minutes of why I'm quoting this, because I want to show how similar we are. There's differences, but there's also similarity.

[David Penn]

Well, we have the same father.

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah. The God of Abraham. One God.

[David Penn]

One. One family. Cousin.

[Average Muhammad]

Rabinic tradition emphasizing divine mercy of human repentance elements. Exodus 34, 9.

[David Penn]

And there's actually a process for repentance. Prayer. Very. Got to pray. I mean, when you do something wrong in Judaism, you got to lay with it and deal with it. You have prayer and study. As Charlie Kirk said, you have to study, you have to pray, you have to study to change yourself. The prayer, the study changes, and then charity, Zakat, you have to do amends, that you have to make amends. You have to serve your time. But if you serve your time, it's different than Christianity. It's different. We have to. In Judaism, we have to prayer and study and charity, you have to serve your time. And you'll know when you can't say, as a Jew, I'm going to say this because I'm a Jew that knows Christ, but he can't get the Jew out of me. And we got to serve our time when we do things wrong. But when we've served our time, we're changed, we're transformed, were made anew. Just as if someone believed in Christ, they're born again. When you do the prayer and the study and the charity, you're born again. You know, you've come through the dark passage and something people need to understand. And it was a. Because I'm also a sinner, you know. And you know, in Judaism, if a righteous man who never really sinned meets a man who was a sinner and went out into the world and gave up the faith and came back, the one that came back is more elevated in the pantheon of believers than one who never sinned. Because the one who never sinned is still susceptible to corruption. But the one that went out there and was corrupted and found their way back, no, you can't hard to corrupt that because, you know, I know what it feels like.

[Average Muhammad]

It's like steel. You put it in the fire, you take it out, you tip it, and it becomes harder, tougher, more resilient, unable to cut anything.

[David Penn]

And the thing that I hope that we as a people, Christian, Muslim and Jew, can come to understand that in this fallen world we live in, where there's all this corruption, God is everywhere still. No matter what dark place a man or a woman might find themselves, all they have to do is turn and ask for God to be there. And God will appear. But you have to ask very sincerely, not, oh, God, please get me out of this mess. No, you just have to. At that moment of despair, what do you turn to? If you turn in your heart truly seeking reconciliation, God will answer every time. At least that's my own testimony and experience.

[Average Muhammad]

I've lived it. I've been in more places that I feel. I've been dead a long time ago and still walked out.

[David Penn]

Right.

[Average Muhammad]

I've done some dumb things that basically should have people telling me even doing this podcast is a dumb thing because, again, like I said, death threats come, people hate will come, enmity will come. People lose contracts, people lose business. People look at you different. People say, come, this guy here, look at him talking. Who the hell gave him the right to talk? Who the hell.

[David Penn]

You know all these people, Tanner?

[Average Muhammad]

Let me tell me that it's.

[David Penn]

They get bad feedback coming on the Professor Pen podcast.

[Average Muhammad]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Professor Pen podcast. I'm talking about life in general.

[David Penn]

Oh, you're, like, just taking the walk.

[Average Muhammad]

Taking the walk. It's.

[David Penn]

No, that's for sure.

[Average Muhammad]

There's a lot of thorns and things along the way, but it's a walk and it's a path, and my path is clear.

[David Penn]

That's that iron being in that fire. Is that still hammering on.

[Average Muhammad]

We don't fear, we don't blink, we don't shake. We just walk by faith.

[David Penn]

Like Charlie Kirk, he didn't know his hour.

[Average Muhammad]

Not by sight, man.

[David Penn]

When he woke up that day, he didn't know that that was his last day.

[Average Muhammad]

Probably made plans for the next day.

[David Penn]

Probably made plans for the next 10 years.

[Average Muhammad]

You're supposed to come to Minnesota the next week, right? At the University of Minnesota.

[David Penn]

Isn't that a lesson for all of us, to get our personal spiritual life at the center of our attention?

[Average Muhammad]

It can all change in a second.

[David Penn]

For anybody on anything.

[Average Muhammad]

Are you ready?

[David Penn]

Are you asking me a question?

[Average Muhammad]

No, I'm asking your audience a question. Are you ready?

[David Penn]

This is where we just sit quietly when you say, are you ready out there, the listeners and the viewers, are you ready to let go? Are you ready? There's an interesting thing that I've been thinking about a lot in reference to Charlie Kirk's awful public assassination. There's good research now about the human brain that when the heart stops and death is declared, still continues, the brain still continues. Can you imagine the terror of having no faith and no effort to repair your life, and you're trapped in a body that will soon expire and nobody can talk to you. It's just you all alone. You don't have a relationship with God. See, I think all religion is leading us to that moment because that's a very difficult moment. Unless you have faith. If you have faith, well, that's a completely different proposition. So what are you planning for? Are you planning looking at your phone and looking at those digital. Those pixels? Oh, look at my 401k. It's just banging. I'm making so much money this year.

[Average Muhammad]

You won't Take it with you.

[David Penn]

Can't take it with you. You got the wife at home, you got the girlfriend down the block. Can't take her with either.

[Average Muhammad]

I mean, what was the gentleman's name? Who died at a young age, too, who conquered half the known world at that time? Alexander the Great went from Macedonia, North Macedonia, depending on who you talk to. These Macedonians, they argue about it all the time. And then went all the way to India's border, in fact, went through the Pashtun land and had to marry a Pashtun, an Afghani called Roxanne, just to go through these pastoons. These pastoons, they basically turn back everybody badass, aren't they? They're badasses, man. British twice, you know.

[David Penn]

You know, Russians and the Americans.

[Average Muhammad]

You know what they say, huh? They say, we've been Afghanistan for 200 years, Muslim for a thousand, 400, but we've been Pashtun for 5,000 years. Don't mess with us, man.

[David Penn]

Don't mess with the tribe.

[Average Muhammad]

Don't mess with us.

[David Penn]

Don't mess with the game.

[Average Muhammad]

Don't mess with us. They don't mind doing whatever they're doing out there, God help them, you know what I mean? They're very proud people. But then again, when he was being buried, he said, leave my hands out and bury me with nothing. This man owned an empire, you know.

[David Penn]

Muhammad, we're going to run out of time, and I want to get to this last video piece to end this. We got about 15 minutes left, so I want to make sure we get this last piece out, because we're talking about peace and reconciliation.

[Average Muhammad]

How do you do peace? I'm a gardener. That's my walk.

[David Penn]

A gardener, yeah. Seeds of peace right here. We're doing it. We plant seeds right on this, right?

[Average Muhammad]

Yeah, metaphorically, like, you see, there's a subjective and a metaphysical world. The metaphysical world is here, and there's a subjective world, the world where we gotta wake up and make pills, go to work, pay taxes, follow the law. There's a subjective world, but there's a metaphysical world that exists and part of this world. Our umbilical code is faith. We have freedom of religion in America. We are the freest country in the planet, and I can prove it. And Minnesota is one of the greatest states in the world, and I can prove it. My children are born here in America, just like Ilhan Omar's children are born here in America, in Minnesota. Well, guess what? My children have memorized the Quran before the age of 15. I'm not even a good Muslim. My daughters, the two oldest ones, memorize the Quran by heart. And they live and they know the Seerahs of the Prophet, the stories of the Prophet, and they know the Islamic studies. We train them in it. Since they were the age of 6, 15, they memorized at least the Quran. And this is a journey that basically, I'm telling you, will take you entire life just to understand the meaning of what faith is. Now, there is freedom of religion in America. That's the beauty of this country. As a Muslim, that's why I go to bat for this country. I have everything I need. I found Islam here.

[David Penn]

Freedom, economic freedom, spiritual religious freedom and associations, freedom of speech.

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, I use that. It's a good freedom not to waste man. Not many people on this planet can claim that. But the most important aspect is what do you do with your freedom? Because the Tocqueville said freedom is the hardest thing to learn.

[David Penn]

Freedom is the hardest thing to say again.

[Average Muhammad]

To learn.

[David Penn]

To learn, yeah.

[Average Muhammad]

Oh, but it's also the hardest thing to exercise the same detox. It's the hardest thing you can learn is freedom. And the hardest thing you can learn to exercise is freedom. Because not many people understand what that means. They think freedom means a lot of things, but we understand what freedom.

[David Penn]

Well, we're coming out of a period in this country where freedom means do whatever you want to do. Well, we atomize freedom.

[Average Muhammad]

We've atomized it to individual levels to the point of obnoxiousness. It's not minority tyranny. Neither is it majority tyranny. It's a balance. There's no balance now. It's a majority Christian nation and Christians feel isolated and they have good reason to do so. When a Christian man says a woman is a woman, they're labeled. When they refuse to use pronouns like Muslims do, they're labeled hate. So let's talk about the video on extremism. Can you play the video on what to do to know as average Mohammed? I created this about a couple of years ago.

[David Penn]

Okay, let's listen.

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[David Penn]

Tired of flipping through apps to find something good? Meet TiVo plus your one stop free streaming network. No credit card required. With over 300 free channels you get binge worthy more movies from action and comedy to Indian award winners. Plus top TV shows, live news, sports, highlights and family programming all in one place. Watch live or on demand right from your home screen. Free. No signups, no fees, just press play. That's TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Announcer]

There'S a lot going on in Hollywood.

[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[David Penn]

Top of it all? Variety has the solution.

[Announcer]

Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new Daily Variety.

[David Penn]

Podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[David Penn]

Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and hosted by co Editor in Chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change.

[Announcer]

Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily.

[David Penn]

Variety and listen now. A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles.

[Charlie Kirk]

@Nflshop.Com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long.

[David Penn]

From rookies making their debut to legends.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Average Muhammad]

[e-mail] Actions needed against extremist hate ideas that leads to terrorism. You have seen acts of terrorism by white supremacists and those of religious extremists of ideas based violence. If you use the Internet, there's a good chance you have been exposed to these ideas. A meme, a joke, a live stream, an Internet influencer message.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why do they do this to us, especially our kids?

[Average Muhammad]

To desensitize kids to traumatic content, create feelings of pride or shame. And if you or a loved one likes it, they work to indoctrinate you by isolating you or loved one from societal, community, country and your humanity to become just like them, merchants of misery, hate and eventually death. Teaching you inclusion and diversity is the enemy. The white folks, Christians, Jews, Muslims, blacks, browns, Asians and LGBTQI is the enemy. Now to destroy. To hate them all or some or one. You're not a fool to believe in hate. Only a fool believes the other is the enemy. Because society, humanity, country will isolate you and do everything to keep you away. There goes your life, ambitions and potential. This will destroy you because humanity's good shall win over evil.

[Charlie Kirk]

Average Mohammed what can one do to protect yourself or a loved one from hate ideas?

[Average Muhammad]

Research says do the following three things if you suspect hate speech in a loved one. 1. Challenge the narrative. Explain why inclusion and diversity is the strength of our democracies. 2. Pay attention to the memes and content politically charged messages. Avoid them and friending your loved one. You can call it out for parents. Know what your child is consuming. Protect them from it. 3. Listen to what they are saying or joking about. Learn from the Internet if it demeans or blames politically a race, people, nationality, sexuality or religion. This is a sign the person is consuming hate ideas. It isn't a joke if it demeans others. That is how it starts into full fledged hit. Eventual.

[Charlie Kirk]

Good to know what to look out for.

[Average Muhammad]

What can I do for a loved one? I don't want the extremist thinking manifesting into terrorism. Research done by experts say do the following to stop that process. Listen to the views, even wrong ones to challenge it. Talk to others in their life. Build a supportive network around them of positive influence. Do not shame them again, do not shame them. You have every right to be angry. Disgusted by the hate. Shaming only forces your loved one to dig in and isolate further to reinforcing their ideas. This is fodder for the extremists to recruit further. Foster open dialogue. Create a safe space for dialogue. Do please take a neutral tone approach. Anger has never solved a problem. We, the anti hate coalition exist in every society and country like average Mohammed. Reach out to the experts. Google extremism intervention organizations. Get the help you need to stop hate. Average Mohammed has hope. It is the intangible feature of our humanity. Information of how to act is power we have as a people, race, nationalities, sexuality and religions. Let's use free speech and non violence ways for the good of country and humanity. We can defeat terrorism by all of us engaging against hate that breeds it. Hate which leads to terrorism. For some must cope for for good shall prevail over evil. We believe in that hope for all humanity. Our average Muhammad walks. This message has been brought to you by Average Muhammad.org.

[David Penn]

Very nice.

[Average Muhammad]

We want you to learn. Use it. Information is power.

[David Penn]

Watch this video and let's understand that hate can work its way into any life. Any religion has to be. We have to guard against it.

[Average Muhammad]

I've worked with anti extremism. I started with the jihadi violent jihadists who basically are offense jihadists like Al Qaeda, isis, Al Shabaab, people who want to kill just about anybody who disagrees with them. And that mentality has gone mainstream in every religion.

[David Penn]

That's very interesting in every society because.

[Average Muhammad]

People get desensitized to it and before you know it start adopting.

[David Penn]

It spreads.

[Average Muhammad]

My grandfather was once asked by my father why don't you want us to go move to the cities? Because we lived outside the cities. And he said because of things he said. What things? He said when you first go to a city you're shocked at the decadence and what goes on in the cities. And then before you know it, it becomes normal. And then before you know it, you're actually doing it.

[David Penn]

You're part of it.

[Average Muhammad]

This is, this is part of your life cycle. It works the same way with extremism. At first it shocks people. Before you know it becomes normal. And then after that people start imitating it. What we call these people who are trying to assassinate Chalika, they all Al Qaeda there.

[David Penn]

Yes, that's. I knew you were heading there. And that's what we have to come to grips with as a society. That this kind of hate spreads in every direction. And if we're going to hold our country as a constitutional republic, forgiveness and.

[Average Muhammad]

Love and zero tolerance to it. The government must have a zero tolerance attitude to it. That's the only way it works.

[David Penn]

Oh, justice is justice.

[Average Muhammad]

Zero tolerance. If there's anybody organizing, charge them. If there's anybody inciting, charge them, arrest them. Let there be a cost to it.

[David Penn]

Let them go.

[Average Muhammad]

Before, because we ran out of countries where assassinations was normal.

[David Penn]

Well assassination has been normal in this country from time to time. All the time. Right now what you're saying Is the key to get out of this is zero tolerance of hateful rhetoric.

[Average Muhammad]

No, not hateful rhetoric. That's free speech.

[David Penn]

Okay.

[Average Muhammad]

But what I talk about is assassination and assassination attempts.

[David Penn]

Anybody organizing to perform violent.

[Average Muhammad]

Anybody who wants to kill another human being for their political opinion, we need to do something about it in terms of legally figure out a way without infringing on free speech.

[David Penn]

It's a law enforcement issue.

[Average Muhammad]

Basically there's laws on the books. Apply them.

[David Penn]

But your, your, your video also says that the associates, the family and friends.

[Average Muhammad]

Are the biggest impact you can have in life in stopping such kind of people. And the impact starts with hate speech. Once you notice hate speech and you think it is wrong, it is still legal to do so in America.

[David Penn]

But you have to confront it and call it out dialogue.

[Average Muhammad]

And what you do is you don't shame them. That's the most important thing. Don't shame a person with into it.

[David Penn]

Don't shame. Don't use guilt as a weapon.

[Average Muhammad]

Pretty much don't say that's a hate speech. We don't like that. I didn't raise you that way. It's none of your business. TikTok, YouTube and Swiss Social media and other things are raising your kid today in America and across the planet. You've lost that battle. Give it up, Muhammad.

[David Penn]

We're going to have to stop. But it certainly sets up the next visit about how we can work in our families and in our communities to organize for a more peaceful society. We're gonna have to come back to peace and talk about peace. Next time we'll start with peace next time.

[Average Muhammad]

Well, let me end with tiger.com. thank you. Target.com please. I could use the income. And we need this promo code is AM Average Muhammad a special today.

[David Penn]

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[Average Muhammad]

The United States of America. God bless America. Go to rpoc.org if you can donate. I'm in the hole in there too. So please help us with anything you can do. Even a penny is right now accepted. Trust me.

[David Penn]

Thank you very much for coming in. Muhammad. We're going to have you back soon again. Thank you so much. Have a good night everybody.

[Announcer]

Disclaimer the information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only. All opinions expressed by the podcast host and their guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinions of any entity they represent or are associated with. This podcast is not intended to provide professional advice or political guidance and should not be relied upon for such the content of this podcast is based on the host's knowledge and understanding at the time of recording and is subject to change any fact, presented or factual statement made by the podcast. The host or guests are generated by available mainstream media sources, social media outlets, and artificial intelligence, including grok, the Artificial Intelligence module of X. Although we strive to provide accurate and up to date commentary and opinions, we make no representations or warranties expressed or implied about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the podcast or the information, products, services or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. By accessing and using this podcast, you acknowledge and agree that the hosts, guests, and any affiliated entities are not responsible for any actions you take. Based on the information provided in this podcast, you agree that the use of this podcast is at your own risk. The hosts, guests and any affiliated entities are not liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, consequential or punitive damages arising out of your access to or use of this podcast. This includes any damages related to the loss of use, data or profits, whether or not advised of the possibility of such damages. In no event shall the hosts, guests and any affiliated entities be liable to you or any third party for any claims, losses or damages arising out of your use of this podcast or reliance on any information provided herein. By listening to this podcast, you agree to release and hold harmless to hosts, guests and any affiliated entities from any and all liability, claims, actions, demands and expenses arising out of or relating to your use of this podcast. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back Featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics except experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your annabe sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return, shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[David Penn]

Tired of flipping through apps to find something good? Meet TiVo plus your one stop free streaming network. No credit card required. With over 300 free channels, you get binge worthy movies from action and comedy to Indian award winners. Plus top TV shows, live news, sports highlights and family programming all in one place. Watch live or on demand right from your home screen. Free. No signups, no fees, just press play. That's TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on. Check us [e-mail] Stop settling for weak sound.

[Average Muhammad]

It's time to level up your game and bring the boom.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy.

[David Penn]

Vibrant sound wherever you go.

[Charlie Kirk]

Elevate your listening experience to new heights.

[David Penn]

Because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with.

[Charlie Kirk]

LG XBoom and for a limited time save 25% at LG.com with code fall25. Bring the boom XBoom there's a lot.

[Announcer]

Going on in Hollywood.

[Charlie Kirk]

How are you supposed to stay on.

[David Penn]

Top of it all? Variety has the solution.

[Announcer]

Take 20 minutes out the of your day and listen to the new daily.

[David Penn]

Variety podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where do you see the business actually heading?

[Announcer]

Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and.

[David Penn]

Hosted by co Editor in Chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change.

[Announcer]

Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen now.

[David Penn]

A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh stock.

[Charlie Kirk]

@Nflshop.Com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long.

[David Penn]

From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all.

[Charlie Kirk]

Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play fan like a pro and shop [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.