SECURING AMERICA WITH FRANK GAFFNEY -

Summary

Securing America with Frank Gaffney – June 27, 2026 – Full Episode Summary

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Securing America" with Frank Gaffney features an extended, in-depth conversation with Charles "Sam" Faddis, a former CIA undercover operative, military veteran, author, and national security commentator. Faddis brings his real-world intelligence and military experience to analyze key threats to the United States, from Iran and the Middle East to China and domestic election integrity issues. The tone is direct, urgent, and highly critical of perceived policy failures, both in foreign and domestic arenas.

Gaffney and Faddis systematically dissect the nature of adversarial regimes, critique the U.S. government's strategies, and express concern about internal weakness and corruption. They also address the role of U.S. elites in “enabling” America's enemies, and close with a strident appraisal of election fraud and accountability for public officials like Dr. Anthony Fauci.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Iran Conflict: Unfinished Business and Rising Threats

• Regret Over Engagement, Realism About Consequences:
  Faddis states that while he never supported initiating conflict with Iran, "now that we're in it, we can't just walk away." (05:14)
• Iranian Negotiators—Not Moderates:
  He describes Iran’s lead negotiator, Galoboff, as a “thug…dedicated to crushing and destroying internal resistance” and “vicious and bloodthirsty.” (06:00)
• False Narrative of Iranian Moderation:
  There’s skepticism over media portrayals of Iran’s shift towards moderation or reasonableness: “They haven’t changed their stripes. Their intentions remain the same.” (07:27)
• Future Conflict is Inevitable:
  Faddis predicts that the apparent ceasefire or deal is “at best intermission...halftime,” and that the U.S. will have to face Iran again—now better armed than ever thanks to Chinese and Russian support. (08:31, 09:14)
• Quotes:
  • “One way or the other, in my opinion, this is at best intermission.” — Sam Faddis (07:27)
  • “They will have capabilities they did not have this time around. And we’ll pay the price, obviously.” — Sam Faddis (09:46)

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2. Negotiations and the Role of Third Parties

• Distrust of Qataris, Pakistanis, Turks as Intermediaries:
  Faddis is wary of these third parties. He admits their usefulness in facilitating meetings but warns, “Trusting them to negotiate the terms [is] another [thing]...it would be unthinkable to me.” (11:22, 16:46)
• U.S. Interests Not Paramount:
  The interlocutors' motivations often run counter to U.S. interests. Gaffney: “What they've got is not your best interests at heart, that's for sure.” (17:34)
• Allies—A Misleading Term:
  Faddis warns Americans not to mistake U.S. treaty allies for reliable friends: “Yes, they are 100% going to stab you in the back and do things that the average American would find unthinkable.” (18:21)

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3. Turkey—An Unreliable NATO Ally

• Ideological and Strategic Conflict:
  Turkey, under Erdogan, is described as a “fundamentally different breed of cat…He is an Islamist. He regards himself as the sultan. He talks all the time about recreating the Ottoman Empire.” (22:05)
• Support for Extremists:
  Faddis details Turkish support for al-Qaeda-linked groups in Syria and aggression against the Kurds, saying, “Erdogan and his military were a big part of putting that guy [Jelani] in power.” (22:05)
• Should Turkey Get Advanced U.S. Weaponry?
  “A bad idea. Right, that’s…always kind of a difficult fit, bad fit for NATO.” (22:05)
• Potential Shift in Alliance:
  Gaffney references President Trump: “Turkey was about to come into the war on the opposite side…on Iran’s side in all of this.” (21:05)

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4. China—America’s Preeminent Adversary

• No Room for Wishful Thinking:
  “Hope is not a plan... They are laser focused on world domination, supplanting us as the preeminent power on the planet and subjugating us.” (28:12)
• Contrast with U.S.-Soviet Strategy:
  Faddis contrasts U.S. containment of the USSR with current China policy: “We didn't send money to invest in the Soviet Union...Our approach to the Communist Chinese is...completely self-destructive at its core.” (31:27-32:00)
• Enabling the CCP through American Capital:
  U.S. elite involvement is sharply criticized: “Climbing in bed with the CCP has made some very powerful men incredibly powerful and rich,” Faddis contends, alleging they place personal gain above national survival. (34:23)
• Lack of Financial Parity for Chinese Firms:
  The U.S. allowed Chinese companies unique access to U.S. capital markets without abiding by standard regulations: “It was a preferential treatment that no other nation, not even friendly nations, received.” — Gaffney (33:25)
• Quotes:
  • “We are...handing them the rope with which to hang us and destroy us.” — Sam Faddis (32:00)
  • “There is no sign that we intend to stop it...We’re just buying a little more time before they can actually crush us.” — Sam Faddis (32:45)

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5. Election Integrity and the SAVE Act

• Mail-In Ballots & Fraud:
  Faddis claims the system is “broken…that’s really too charitable… The folks that have created this current system...know precisely what they are doing. It is a deliberate mechanism for one party rule.” (39:48)
• Case Study—Los Angeles:
  Detailed example where tens of thousands of mail-in ballots suddenly appeared, switching the results and displacing the Republican candidate. (42:29)
• Indifference and Complicity:
  Gaffney and Faddis accuse both Republicans and Democrats of ignoring or benefiting from the corruption.
  Quote: “We’ve got a whole bunch of Republicans who don't even want to talk about this...I have absolutely no idea what you're thinking as a Republican lawmaker standing in the way of restoring trust in our electoral system.” — Sam Faddis (47:03)
• Advocated Solutions:
  Faddis calls for a return to in-person voting with ID and paper ballots, hand-counted, with strict absentee exceptions. (47:03)

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6. Why Isn’t Fauci in Jail?

• Funding Dangerous Research Abroad:
  “Fauci was funding that research and doing it there…because the President of the United States, Barack Obama…said we’re not going to do it anymore.” (50:10)
• Cover-Up Allegations:
  Faddis contends that when COVID-19 broke out near the Wuhan lab, Fauci “works overtime over the course of years to hide all of this” even after being told by researchers it was likely man-made. (51:59)
• Ongoing Legal Responsibility:
  Gaffney asks if pardons have shielded Fauci: Faddis believes charges could still be brought due to statute of limitations and the nature of the offense. (53:34)
• Quotes:
  • “There is no good reason why the man should not be in jail. That is not hyperbole. The man should be in prison.” — Sam Faddis (49:30)
  • “He continues to hide it and cover it up.” — Sam Faddis (53:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Trusting [third party intermediaries] to negotiate the terms, trusting them to even tell you the truth is another [thing]...it would be unthinkable to me.”
  — Sam Faddis, skepticism about Qatari, Pakistani, Turkish intermediaries (11:22)

• “At best, you have certain common interests…but there are going to be all kinds of other times when these guys go in a completely different direction. And yes, they are 100% going to stab you in the back.”
  — Sam Faddis on U.S. “allies” in the Middle East (18:21)

• “These guys have been the Shia and the Sunni fighting for 1500 years...I can't imagine how that holocaust is going to help the situation in the Middle East.”
  — Sam Faddis, on the futility of expecting Turkish mediation to resolve complex Middle Eastern conflicts (24:29)

• “Our approach to dealing with the Communist Chinese is fundamentally different and absolutely completely self destructive at its core.”
  — Sam Faddis, China policy critique (32:00)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | |-------------------------------------------|--------------| | Welcome and Introduction | 03:06–04:26 | | Iran: War, Negotiation, and Threats | 04:27–12:29 | | Turkish and Middle Eastern Alliances | 16:24–25:05 | | China: Threat Analysis and U.S. Policy | 28:12–35:39 | | Election Integrity & The SAVE Act | 39:48–48:20 | | Why Isn’t Fauci in Jail? | 49:30–53:47 |

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Style & Tone

The conversation is urgent, frank, and unapologetically critical of U.S. leadership and institutions, with a focus on perceived dangers to American security from both abroad (Iran, China, Turkey) and at home (election systems, elite corruption). Both host and guest make references to personal experience and direct involvement in national security and political advocacy. The tone is that of seasoned insiders warning of grave but often overlooked threats.

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For Listeners

This episode is ideal for those interested in national security, foreign policy skepticism, election integrity activism, and critiques of government accountability. Frank Gaffney and Sam Faddis offer a sharply dissenting perspective from mainstream political and intelligence narratives. For a deep dive into the world of intelligence-informed conservative commentary, this is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Hi, it's Karen in Georgia from My favorite Murder. We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr. Want the full story? Take a listen. She starts dating Howard Hughes and in fact she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King, presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5. Goodbye.

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[Sam Faddis]

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Brett Baer I will be working on be in Washington cuz it's a big big day.

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[Frank Afne]

Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Afne the program that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the glory of God and His kingdom. We have a very special treat in store for you. We are going to spend a full hour talking to one of our most favorite and I think most consequential regular contributors to this program. His name is Charles Sam Fatis. You have seen him elsewhere, of course, as well as here. I hope that you are reading his extraordinary [e-mail] and perhaps have read some of his longer form works, including a personal favorite of mine, Beyond Repair, the Decline and Fall of the CIA, written from the perspective of a man who served in it for 20 years as an undercover operative after service in uniform in the United States army as well as as an Assistant Attorney General out in Washington State. Sam Faddis, what a delight to have the chance to speak with you at length, my friend. We treasure every minute of our generally shorter form interviews with you, but thank you for giving so generously of your time today.

[Sam Faddis]

It is great to be here as always.

[Frank Afne]

Frank well, I'm going to take advantage of you by starting off with a very, very important topic upon which I think you have taken a particularly consequential position. Namely, you have talked about the Iran war, which you didn't particularly fancy. You certainly wouldn't have recommended getting into, but having gotten into, you have been as clear as anybody about the stakes associated with not losing it. And I want to give you a chance to lay that out in some detail, Sam, because I think it's just a hugely important contribution to the public policy debate at the moment.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, Frank, you know, I, I spent my life in the real world, by which I mean not engaged in theoretical exercises or sort of abstract analysis, but in the real world where we have to wrestle with things as, as they are and we don't have a rewind button. We don't get to say, hey, we, we wish we hadn't done that. Let's just walk it back and pretend like we didn't. I mean, it doesn't, it does not work that way. So as you noted, I would not have recommended we begin this conflict at this time and certainly not in this way with Iran. Okay, we're in it. We are now attempting to land this plane and walk away from the conflict. Now, there are all kinds of considerations that President Trump's got to wrestle with, not the least of which are impending midterms, economic issues and so forth. I get it. What I do think we need to be crystal clear on is this. The Iranians do not regard themselves as defeated. The Iranians are not chastened. We are not dealing with a new leadership that is more moderate, that wants to get along. We are dealing. I mean, the guy who is the head negotiator in these talks, Galoboff, is a thug. And his entire life has been dedicated to crushing and destroying internal resistance. This man's. He literally started out originally as, if you will, a grunt in the besiege who are the head crackers and the internal security guys. So his job was as an individual, crushing dissent, and then he has moved all the way up through the structure of the Islamic Republic. And at one point, he was, what, deputy commander of the besieged. And he's had a whole bunch of other similar high positions in all of those, he has been as vicious and bloodthirsty as you can imagine. This is a guy who brags about killing people, brags about torturing people, just cracking hits. So that's the guy running the negotiations now. And the rest of the negotiating team is similar, similar characters. So what I am saying is this. They haven't changed their stripes. They haven't changed the course. Their intentions remain the same. We're about to hand them a whole lot of money one way or the other. Exactly how much, like everything else, remains unclear. But they are already sending tankers out of the Gulf to sell Iranian oil as fast as they can pump them out. So one way or the other, in my opinion, this is at best intermission. This is at best halftime. And you have to understand that. And I don't know whether things will fall apart within days or somehow or another, we'll cobble this together for months. That depends on factors out of everybody's control. But sooner or later, we're going to circle back to having to confront them.

[Frank Afne]

And later is worse because as you have pointed out in your various writings and magazine and appearances on this show and others, they are getting additional weapons from China and perhaps elsewhere with the spigot open for money to flow through the regime. Presumably that will be further intensified. And Sam is a guy with military experience as well as time and intelligence. What do you think that likely translates into in terms of additional capabilities, Sir?

[Sam Faddis]

Well, look, they're going to go on a shopping spree, and they are going when we come back and ultimately have to face them again, the timing remains uncertain. They're going to be loaded for bear and it's not just with what they already have. And they will. I mean, by this point I would expect they have essentially replenished all their drone inventory completely and they're probably pretty close to that with their ballistic missiles as well, unfortunately. But it's not just that they're going to rebuild all that. I mean, the Chinese are in bed with these guys, the Russians are in bed with these guys. And they also regard this as they, they don't think the Iranians lost either. They see a strategic opportunity here and they've been very loud in the press about this, actually how they're going to deepen their relationship. So when you go back against the Iranians, it's not just going to be they're back to where they were before this war started. They will have capabilities they did not have this time around. And we'll pay the price, obviously.

[Frank Afne]

So let me ask you one more thing about the negotiations you mentioned. Who we're up against in terms of the other team and characterizations to the contrary. That these are, you know, new, if not more moderate, certainly more reasonable people, people we can do business with, is kind of how it's been bruited. But as I understand it, Sam, the US Seemingly contracted out effectively to the Qataris and the Pakistanis, maybe the Turks to some extent too. These negotiations, which helps explain the nature of the memorandum of understanding that has emerged from these negotiations, tell us about that document and what you make of its contents. And does that sound right to you, that it's essentially been dictated by our enemies?

[Sam Faddis]

Well, I mean, what it sounds to me is you're dealing with something that has been put together by some very slippery folks and is ambiguous at best and open to all kinds of interpretation. I mean, look, having dealt with these guys, the Pakistanis, the gutteris, all of these folks, okay? Can they be. They can. They certainly have been useful to us in the past. I mean, I have sat down with Iranians, senior Iranians, in meetings that weren't supposed to happen. And the reason they were possible is because some guttery put it together, because he's talking to both sides. So in that kind of world, having people that are like that is necessary. But it doesn't mean you trust them. It doesn't. I mean, the fact that they can put you in the room with the guy is one thing. Trusting them to negotiate the terms, trusting them to even tell you the truth is another. I mean, even if I physically.

[Frank Afne]

Sam, hold the thought. We'll be right back with more with Sam Fatis. Stay tuned.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from My Favorite Murder. We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr. Want the full story? Take a listen. Hedy. She starts dating Howard Hughes, the aviation tycoon. Do you know a lot about him? I mean, I watch the Aviator, so I know everything Leonardo DiCaprio has allowed me to know about him. But incredible innovator, right? She says he's a, quote, very strange man. But they do get along really well.

[Sam Faddis]

Give us examples.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know they do get along intellectually. And in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. She takes a look at what he's designed. It's got these square wings and she's like, that doesn't make sense. And so she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of, like, what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamarr and Billie Jean King, presented by The Hyundai Ioniq 5. Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Frank Afne]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Newt Gingrich]

is Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast Newt's World with 15 special episodes. And I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Frank Afne]

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[Newt Gingrich]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Frank Afne]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Sam Faddis]

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[Frank Afne]

Back. As is Sam Faddis, the proprietor of End [e-mail]. sam, I apologize. I got so caught up in your analysis and rendering of it that I lost track of the time. Finish the thought you were making about the Qataris being our, our negotiators.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, this certainly goes for a lot of different peoples around the planet. Okay. The fact that they can broker the meeting and get people into the same room and, and so forth that other people could not, okay, that can be incredibly valuable. All right? It doesn't mean that I then turn over negotiating the agreement to them. That would be unthinkable to me. In fact, quite frankly, it doesn't even mean that I allow them to have control over anything significant regarding the meeting. I don't go where they want the meeting to be under their circumstances. I don't ever actually trust them, I guess, is what I'm, what I'm saying. And once you step across that line and you start saying, well, don't worry about it, they've got it. You're in a world of heart.

[Frank Afne]

What they've got is not your best interests at heart. That's for sure.

[Sam Faddis]

That's right.

[Frank Afne]

And again, Sam, I Mean, this is a really important point that, that you, having put in the time, in a lot of very dangerous situations, needless to say, but in this environment, would do you agree that. Well, that the Car. Qataris could properly be described as a major non NATO ally, or the, for that matter, the Turks as a NATO ally? I mean, I understand that they've been formally designated as those things. Of course, we got a treaty with the Turks. But how would you characterize them in terms of where they line up, sir?

[Sam Faddis]

Well, look, what troubles me about this, and I'm sure I've said this to you before, Frank, is that the average person equates ally to, these are our buddies, these are our blood brothers. Through thick and thin, we're going to stand together. This kind of thing. I don't mean to be silly, but I mean, that's the kind of common sense way an American would think about that. There are allies like as the, as the Brits and the Canadians were when we were landing at D Day. Okay, that's not what you're talking about here at all. At best, you have certain. We have certain common interests in common, and we can cooperate on some issues, but there are going to be all kinds of other times when these guys go in a completely different direction. And yes, they are 100% going to stab you in the back and do things that the average American would find unthinkable. I mean, how many times have the Turks and one of our key air bases in the Middle east is Inzerlich down in southeastern Turkey. How many times have we been in critical moments, at critical moments, and the Turks have announced they're not allowing us to take our own aircraft off from Incelliq to fly missions. They have refused to allow us to use the base on which we have our forces. That, frankly, has happened. I have no idea how many times happened. Very often. That's a classic example of they have a completely different interest. They will stab you in the back.

[Frank Afne]

But can I just ask whether interest sufficiently describes the differences? It seems to me that in addition to that, they adhere to an ideology that requires our destruction, do they not? I mean, Sharia is about their program ruling the world, and we have to get with that program or submit to it at the minimum.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, this, this, you know, this is an element that people don't want to. Want to face. It's not just a matter of, okay, they're not particularly enthused about whatever particular project we have at the time. I mean, Erdogan is, who fancies himself the sultan In Turkey, holds giant rallies and fires up all his followers, talking about defeating the Crusaders, liberating Jerusalem, wiping Israel, I mean, this is language he uses, wiping Israel off the map that you would expect from something like Hamas. Okay, that's the guy who runs Turkey, our NATO ally. That, that, and in many cases we just sort of try to pretend like it didn't happen.

[Frank Afne]

But let's just drill down on one particular point. I believe it was yesterday, as we speak, President Trump said that Turkey was about to come into the war on the opposite side. That is to say, on Iran's side in all of this. Now that, that bespeaks not only not such a good ally or even friend or even some outfit that, you know, in an abstract way is pursuing an ideological outcome that's contrary to our interests. Shall we say? This is, this is going to war against America, at least according to what President Trump said yesterday. Point one, I want to calibrate on that, if you would. And then point two, if that's so, what do you think of the idea of allowing them to have access to our top line super secret sensitive F35 fighter aircraft?

[Sam Faddis]

Yeah, that's, I think what we call in the trade a bad idea. Right, that's, you know. Well, look, I mean, this is, this is something that we have discussed as well, which is Turkey was always kind of a difficult fit, bad fit for NATO, even back in the days before Erdogan when it was, you know, still the, the Republic, so called, that Ataturk created, that was already a difficult fit. Erdogan is a fundamentally different breed of cat. He is an Islamist. He, I'm not kidding when I say he regards himself as the sultan. He talks all the time about recreating the Ottoman Empire. The boy is completely, deadly serious about that. This is a guy, I mean, we talked about, you know, we talk about Jelani in Syria and why essentially Syria is under the control of an Al, of Al Qaeda at this point. Or you know, ideologically, it's, there's no distinction between those guys in Al Qaeda. Okay, well, Erdogan and his military were a big part of putting that guy in power. Right. So it is not like he says some stuff at a rally and then it doesn't mean anything. It's just whatever. I mean, we have seen this. They have rolled their guys across the border in Syria, shoved the Kurds aside, armed these Al Qaeda guys, and now we have what amounts to an Islamic Republic in Syria and periodically discussion of how those guys are going to march into Lebanon and onward to Israel.

[Frank Afne]

And the President has bruited this idea that, you know, having this Al Qaeda operative take charge of, you know, quelling Hezbollah in Lebanon. I, I spoke with Dr. David Wernzer about this a day ago and he said something to the effect of, well, look, that's a formula for Hezbollah and the jihadis of the Sunni stripe, Turks and others to simply wipe out the Christians in Lebanon, uh, having done a fair amount of that already in Syria, would you say that's a likely outcome if we were.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, they're up. They're gonna, they're gonna wipe out anybody who doesn't, who doesn't fit their mold. So you're gonna be exterminated. But also the idea, I mean, look, these guys have been, these guys have been the Shia and the Sunni fighting for 1500 years tooth and nail over who gets to succeed the Prophet, literally. How is turning them loose against each other going to fix anything? I, I can't imagine how that holocaust is going to help the situation in the Middle East.

[Frank Afne]

I mean that. Well, the only explanation I can give is that Tom Barrack, who seems to not so much be our ambassador to Turkey and special envoy for Syria and for Iraq, I guess, as well, seemingly Lebanon too, but works for Erdogan, is promoting this idea within the President's councils and persuaded him that he's doing such a splendid job unifying Syria that he's just the man for the job in Lebanon. And I gotta say, this is at best clueless and at worst, downright recklessly dangerous. Sam, we have to take a break. When we come back, I want to talk about the main thing, as our friend Captain Jim Pinells calls it, China. So we're going to pivot to the other side of the world. Not unrelated to the Iran problem by any means. We'll talk about that too, on the other side with Sam Fadis. Stay tuned. Welcome back. And we're visiting with Sam Faddis. For this full hour, Praise the Lord, we have a chance to pick his copious brains on a host of topics of importance to the yes, security, but also to the well being of the American people. And one of them is, in addition to what we've been discussing in Iran and the Middle east and Sharia, supremacism, something called the Chinese Communist Party. And I think as listeners to this program know well, Sam is a member of our committee on the present danger, China and has been very seriously engaged in thinking about and trying to help protect the country against the threat we face from that quarter. And Sam, I've asked you to provide what you've often do with me on these occasions. A twofer is to say, in addition to contributing to this block of our television program here at Real America's Voice, to a webinar that we're going to do under the banner of the Committee on the Presentation of China Tomorrow concerning these latest developments in terms of the Chinese being enabled by American business leaders, financiers, technologists, government officials as well, to become an ever more formidable adversary. We've spoken with Captain Fennell about this. I'm anxious to get your thoughts on the advisability of this practice and the necessity for correcting it.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, Captain Fennell, I think, you know, is a one of those guys who brings tremendous clarity to the. This issue, which is, in my view, precisely what you need when you're talking about national strategy, national defense. Right. You cannot afford wishful thinking. You can't afford, you know, as we say, hope is not a plan. What. What's really happening? Where exactly do we stand? What is the danger and what do we do now? And in regard to, you know, in regard to China, the Chinese, the Chinese Communist Party, obviously we're not talking about the people do not desire coexistence. They don't desire a better standard of living or any of this other nonsense. What they desire or they are laser focused on is world domination supplanting us as the preeminent power on the planet and subjugating us. That's if. If not ultimately physically occupying the United States, which I'm not ruling out, certainly reducing us to the status of what amounts to a vassal state. And they rule the planet. That's the reality. I'm sorry, that's uncomfortable for a lot of people. And the consequences of saying that are profound. And so maybe folks just would rather dance around the issue. But again, that doesn't help anything. So this is precisely the situation we faced with the Soviet Union, right? These guys did not want to get along. They didn't want to be like us. They didn't want to become friends. They wanted to dominate the planet. And they were well on their way to doing it. And they were building this, had built this massive military machine. We had the common sense to understand that when you're face to face with an adversary that wishes to kill you and destroy you and is every day building a bigger and bigger machine to do that, that you don't help him. You don't. So we didn't send money to invest in the Soviet Union. We didn't build factories. The Soviet Union when they couldn't design a tank that was much better than the ones they had in World War II. We didn't go over there and let them get our tech so they could make this better and compete with it. We maintain that laser focus. And I know you were part of this, right, this, this effort that ultimately culminates under Ronald Reagan and destroys the Soviet Union. But with, I mean at various points in our various presidents, we bobbed and weaved a little bit, whatever, but we largely maintained course on that from the end of World War II. Our approach to dealing with the Communist Chinese is fundamentally different and absolutely completely self destructive at its core. Right. We are not just not stopping them. We're not, it's not just that we're not building enough ships and tanks, which is all true by the way. We're actually sending them all of the money to do to build this military machine. And we're actually not just letting them steal technology from us, but we're letting some of our biggest, most, the companies that produce our most advanced tech are operating in China. So we're not, we're giving them the money, we're giving them the tech. We're effectively handing them the rope with which to hang us and destroy us. And periodically we push back a little bit on this or that and impose some sanctions and express displeasure. What we don't ever do is just bite the bullet and say, look, this whole relationship has to fundamentally change. We have to stop pumping billions of dollars of investment, trillions probably into them. We have to stop sending our best tech there. We, we have to steer away from these guys and shut down this relationship fundamentally. And, and honestly, Frank, I find it very frustrating because we are not doing it and there is no sign that we intend to do it. We have, you know, the President just flew to, to China not too long ago. With all respect to the President, who did he take on the plane with him? He took, you know, a collection of, whatever it was, a couple of dozen of the top guys who are at the forefront of investing in China and steering American money to the Chinese. So you know, that to me, we have to go, we, that, that, that's the essence of it. An absolute sea change in policy is required or else the best we're doing is biding time, waiting for them to be able to destroy us. We're just buying a little more time before they can actually crush us.

[Frank Afne]

Sam, you know, insult has been added to injury in all of this by a memorandum of understanding, not the one with Iran back in May of 2013 between the United States and Communist China, in which we, in addition to doing the things that you've just described, we gave them access to our capital markets without requiring their companies to conform to any of our securities laws or regulations. Yes, it was a. It was a preferential treatment that no other nation, not even friendly nations, received it. No American company has that authority, that latitude. Can you explain how on earth that could possibly have been done initially, let alone still apply, whatever it is, 16, 14, 15 years later?

[Sam Faddis]

Well, I, I, yeah, I mean, I've thought about this quite a bit, Frank, and I, and I have concluded that the awful truth is that we have individuals in the United States, fabulously wealthy, powerful individuals who are getting richer and richer and more powerful every day off of doing business with, investing, in doing business with the Chinese, investing, climbing in bed with the CCP has made some very powerful men incredibly powerful and rich. And when it really comes down to it, and this is sickening to me, that matters more to them than the survival of our country and the welfare of our citizens. I mean, we're not going to change course if these guys can help it, because they're getting filthy rich and they're still going to get even richer and whatever. Ultimately it leads to the destruction of the United States as we know it. And that apparently is not particularly relevant to them. And I don't take any pleasure in saying that, but I don't think there's any other conclusion you can reach.

[Frank Afne]

No, I don't either end. It's the reason that, as I mentioned with Captain Pinell, we put this book together, with your help and others in the committee, the indictment calling for the prosecution of these people, if not actually in Article 3 courts, or I think it should be, at the least in the court of public opinion, they should not be able to operate in this country as though they are individuals in good standing, you know, respected leaders, admired for their business acumen and so on. They should be regarded as traitors, it seems to me. And as you say, we need to bring this to a screeching halt if we can. And I'd like to see, you know, that. The other painful piece of it, Sam, is that the President of the United States, in February of last year, shortly after coming to office, promulgated through. It wasn't an executive order, but it was an announcement of policy, what he called the America first investment policy. And it basically laid out exactly what we should be doing by telling people on Wall street and, you know, ensuring that their clients are also on notice that enriching our adversary, in this case the Chinese Communist Party was not consistent with an America first investment policy. And that had to stop. And the unsettling thing is that document was never even properly rolled out, let alone enforced. And despite it, we have been pursuing the, well, I would call it the China first investment policy ever since. Sam, we have to take another break. We'll be right back with more. And when we do, we're going to talk about yet another issue on which Sam is quite expert, and that is election integrity, the topic of the day here in Washington. At the very least the topic the president went at it with the United States Senate about recently talk about where we stand, where we need to go from here. Stay tuned for more with Sam Fatis. Right, We're back. So is Sam Faddis, praise God. We're talking with Sam about a variety of things that we don't always get an opportunity to visit with him about when he makes a shorter stay here at Securing America. We're so pleased to have had him for this full hour. And Sam, I did want to turn next to something I know you've been very preoccupied by in your native state or Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but I know you're also tracking very closely the macro or national issues as well when it comes to election integrity. The president had something of a set to with the United States Senate or members of it in Republican caucus, I believe on Wednesday of this week. He's so determined to secure the enactment of something called the SAVE act, which has been passed in the House but not in the Senate, that he's actually refused to sign another piece of legislation that he was being importuned to do to help Republicans in this election cycle concerning some sort of housing, you know, Bill, what's going on here, Sam, what is the SAVE act about? Why does he think it's so important? And do you agree?

[Sam Faddis]

I agree absolutely. Fundamentally, I mean, look, like, like most things in our society these days, there's a whole lot of a whole lot of commentary floating around and most and, and much of it is deliberately deceptive. Right. Here's the reality. And I say this as somebody who in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, in the Patriot movement has spent years now delving into how this the current system works with mail in ballots and so forth, and then also is in contact with folks all over the country doing the same thing in other states. So this is not some opinion. I read an article yesterday. This is years at this point of not just myself digging into it, but talking to other folks all over the country are digging it. The whole system is, I will say the system, the whole mail in ballot system, current electoral system is broken. But that's really too charitable because what it suggests is where it leaves open the possibility that folks were trying to do the right thing, but they're just not particularly good at it. And so there are loopholes and that is not at all what we're dealing with. I'm sorry, that's not, and that's not a conspiracy theory and that's not made up and that's not fantastic. The folks that have created this current system, and that's if we can call it that, know precisely what they are doing. What they have done is create a situation slightly different in every state but with fundamentally same kind of characteristics where they can commit massive fraud. It is a deliberate mechanism for one party rule to prevent the opponents. And that's. The Democratic Party has done that. It is huge, it is massive, it is real. It's not a conspiracy theory. I mean, Los Angeles, right, the mayor's race recently, where all, you know, they have this weird kind of primary status, primary system where both parties are major parties, all major parties are running together and then the top two finishers in the primary square off in the general. It's not a separate Republican primary, Democratic primary. At the end of the voting, effectively the Republican is in second place and he's going to square off against the current mayor in the fall. And then boom, essentially virtually overnight. We've seen this movie before. Tens and tens of thousands of mail in ballots appear out of nowhere and the next thing you know, a Democratic socialist is in second place and the Republican is off.

[Frank Afne]

Okay, well, and the Republican, as I understand it, got scarcely any votes at all.

[Sam Faddis]

In all of those, essentially something like 40,000 votes appear. When the election has effectively been called and it's, it's all over, all of a sudden, 40,000 votes appear and magically none of them are for, for the Republican things that are. It's not just statistically impossible, it's just ludicrous. Okay, well, there is an industry in Los Angeles dedicated to this. And this has been documented. There have been prosecutions, there are ongoing federal prosecutions. You got all these homeless people. The homeless people can list literally a bus stop as their residence and say I request a mail invalid. Well, they don't deliver to bus stops. So you just give them, they give an address of typically an NGO down the street. Thousands of them can list the same address, by the way. They don't have to show any connection to it when the ballots come back from that address, they don't have to be signed because all they have to do is mark on the ballot that the person supposedly casting the vote can't write. So literally, like it's an old pirate movie, you can put an X on the thing and then it's supposed to be witnessed by somebody. So some signature is scribbled. But the fact is nobody does anything to even confirm that the supposed witness is an actual living person, much less finding out that they did it. So what their name is, I assume what their name is, that that literally that any such person ever walked the earth is never established. Okay. So the ballots show up by the thousand on top of all the, the, the opportunity for fraud here is obvious. You. And we have, there's all sorts of videos of homeless people talking about how they show up all the time and hand us five bucks and we fill out a reform, requesting a mail in ballot. And I don't know what happens after that and I don't care. I got five bucks and I went and bought some more beer. So you literally can produce tens, thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of votes and there is no way on God's green earth to confirm that there's any legitimacy to any of them. And that's the way the system functioned to some extent across the country now.

[Frank Afne]

Yeah. And then, Sam, there's something about the machines used to tabulate these things that has got a little bit of inkiness to it too, is there not? So when you put all this together and you've been, you've, I know, have been very actively involved in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. You mentioned that, you know, Democrats are doing this, but they're getting help from Republicans, aren't they? In, in Pennsylvania and certainly in defying the President on the SAVE Act. No.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, the Republican establishment is largely silent on, on the topic. They don't, they don't. They, they don't. They. I mean the president is on record, I mean when I was running actually president of the Pennsylvania State.

[Frank Afne]

This is going to take more time than we've got to hold the thought. We'll be right back with more. On the other side of the break, we'll find out what the President's position is on all of this and Sam Fadis's view of it. Stay tuned please for more.

[Newt Gingrich]

Foreign.

[Frank Afne]

We're back for the final installment of this very special conversation, extended conversation with the great Sam Faddis. We are talking at the moment about election integrity. And Sam, I gave you more question than you had Time to answer. I apologize once again. You, I think, were specifically addressing this question of Republican silence at best and complicity at worst in trying to perpetuate this clearly fraud, racked and exploited sort of arrangement, mail in ballots and bad machines and software and so on. Finish that thought, if you would, sir.

[Sam Faddis]

Well, the unfortunate truth here is that we've got a whole bunch of Republicans who don't even want to talk about this and won't fight about it and pretend like it's not an issue. I mean, the Pennsylvania Patriot Coalition a number of years ago wrote a series of talking points on what we need to do. It's very straightforward. Need to go back to voting in person on election day with id, and you need to vote on hard copy ballots and you need to hand count them, period. I mean, obviously, with appropriate limited exceptions for absentee ballots for those people who genuinely can't make it to the polls. Very simple. Boil all the nonsense out. Take away the opportunity for anybody to cheat on either side, any side. And the President has said very clearly, he said this years ago when we first handed him the talking point. That is precisely the solution to this situation. Go back to something that is straightforward. So what you are thinking as a Republican lawmaker standing in the way of restoring trust in our electoral system? I have absolutely no idea. You are at best hopelessly ignorant of what is happening and unfortunately is probably worse than that.

[Frank Afne]

Yeah. Including benefiting, perhaps.

[Sam Faddis]

Yes.

[Frank Afne]

This rigged system, yes. But the public is not. And I salute you for your efforts to raise hell about this, Sam, and I pray the President will stay the course on it. I think we're told endlessly that this is an 80 to 90% issue for Americans. Even Democrats want election integrity, we're told, not necessarily their elected representatives, but the voting Democrats. It has to be done or else we will be doomed to get more skullduggery like the California election elsewhere across the country in the coming months. Sam, let me pivot to one last thing. You had a very powerful indictment, I think almost literally in your end magazine.substack.com platform. I believe a week ago or so the question you put rhetorically was why isn't Fauci in jail? So I ask you, why isn't Fauci in jail?

[Sam Faddis]

There is no good reason why the man should not be in jail. And I. That is not hyperbole. The man should be. The man should be in prison. I mean, look, you know, here's to try to break it down to its simplest form, Fauci, that we have the Lab in Wuhan back at the inception of the pandemic that was working on gain of function research. Straight up, what that means is making viruses more dangerous to human beings, making them so they can spread more easily amongst human beings. Fauci wasn't just aware of it, Fauci was funding that research and doing it there.

[Frank Afne]

For what reason, sir?

[Sam Faddis]

Doing it there because the President of the United States, Barack Obama actually had said we're not going to do it anymore. So it was brought. No big defender of Barack Obama's, but that's how bad this is. Even Obama said we're not going to do this it. So he took it offshore and he's funding it through a company called Eco Health, the contractor.

[Frank Afne]

Okay, so Fauci, but with government funds. So in violation of federal guidelines, I

[Sam Faddis]

would think, right there, he's in violation of the order that they, you know, and, and he's doing this, he's providing the money. He's obviously aware of the details of what is going on. He knows precisely that they are working with respiratory viruses, making them more dangerous and communicable. And boom, a respiratory virus that fits all of those characteristics all of a sudden is rampaging through Wuhan where the lab is, where he's been funding and supporting this research. So, and, and by the way then

[Frank Afne]

is it true, Sam, that, that he stood to benefit from this research in some way?

[Sam Faddis]

There are allegations that he was going to benefit from it financially. I don't know that that to be true, but I, I'm not saying it's not because unfortunately the reality is that in research with the federal government, and I don't understand why this is that researchers working for the federal government often end up having patents on organisms that are developed with taxpayer funds and then they personally financially benefit. That's fact. But in any event, here we have a. This.

[Frank Afne]

Can I just add one other thing, Sam? As I understand it, this is not just Sam Faddis connecting dots. This was a report by Tulsi Gabbard on her way out the door as Director of National Intelligence. Who put this material together?

[Sam Faddis]

Well, a number of people have said it, but Tulsi, yes, on her way out the door on her last day, they issued a formal report from the odm, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, with attached to it the sanitized documentation to support all of this. So consider, just because this is staggering, here's Fauci, he's doing all of this. The virus either has been deliberately released or jumped the fence. But one way it's rampaging. And this boy has to know that the leading, the leading theory has to be here. That this is one of those things they've been working on in Wuhan with my money. And what does he do? He doesn't raise the alarm. He doesn't sound the bell and and divulge everything he knows. He then works overtime over the course of years to hide all of this. Even when researchers came to him and showed him. We've looked at the virus and there are aspects of it that we have never seen in nature. Only a man made virus could look at this. He continues to hide it and cover it up.

[Frank Afne]

We are almost out of time. Very quick answer. Has he remained out of jail because Joe Biden legally pardoned him?

[Sam Faddis]

I believe there are still charges that are not subject to the pardon. First of all, I think you should challenge the whole pardon. But the statute of limitations doesn't apply. I think you could still prosecute this guy and put him in jail.

[Frank Afne]

Good. And you say that as a former prosecutor?

[Sam Faddis]

Yes, sir.

[Frank Afne]

Maybe you'll get the gig. Sam Fadis, thank you for your time today. Thank you for this gig as well as your great insights. We so appreciate you and the work you [e-mail] Keep it up. Come back to us soon. The rest of you will do the same next time. Until then, go forth and multiply.