Securing America with Frank Gaffney - Episode Summary

Podcast: Real America’s Voice (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Frank Gaffney
Air Date: December 13, 2025
Main Guests: Brian Kennedy, Reggie Littlejohn, Peter McIlvenna

Episode Overview

This episode of "Securing America with Frank Gaffney" delivers deep-dive conversations on U.S.–China financial entanglements, creeping surveillance and social control infrastructures, and the growing influence and threat of Sharia supremacism in Western democracies. Frank Gaffney discusses:

• Wall Street's complicity in enabling Chinese military companies with American investment, in conversation with Brian Kennedy.
• The development of digital IDs, surveillance, and the specter of a "digital gulag," with Reggie Littlejohn.
• The Muslim Brotherhood’s infiltration of Western institutions and the erosion of free speech in the United Kingdom, with Peter McIlvenna.

1. U.S. Investments in China’s Military – The Wall Street–China Nexus

With Brian Kennedy, Chairman, Committee on the Present Danger: China
[00:29–19:45]

Key Discussion Points

• Wall Street Supports Chinese Military Expansion

  • The episode opens with Maria Bartiromo confronting JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon about U.S. investments in Chinese military-linked companies ([00:29]).
  • Gaffney emphasizes that despite public assurances, Dimon and big banks continue to provide substantial funding (hundreds of billions) to companies like CATL, recognized by the Pentagon as Chinese military entities ([01:55]).
  • Kennedy notes Wall Street’s primary allegiance is to profit, not U.S. interests:

    “They’re looking out for the interests of themselves… they're looking to make money any way they can… What we lack is a robust system…to monitor these investments.” ([04:07] – Kennedy)

  • Money is Fungible: Even civilian investments in China end up supporting the regime and, by extension, the military ([04:30]).

• Policy vs. Law

  • Gaffney and Kennedy discuss the difference between policies – which allow loopholes – and the need for binding laws to stop capital flows to adversaries ([07:07]).

  • "Policy is policy. It’s not the law. And there's always enough wiggle room… to drive a truck through." ([07:22] – Kennedy)

• Wall Street Lobbyists and Legislative Battles

  • Wall Street’s extensive lobbying efforts block meaningful legal restrictions on investing in China.
  • Gaffney is blunt:

    “They’re paying the Chinese to prepare to kill us. I don’t know how to put a finer point on it but to call it treachery, if not flat out treason.” ([08:37] – Gaffney)

• Civil-Military Fusion in China

  • Any investment in China, even in seemingly benign sectors, aids the PLA due to China’s “civil-military fusion” policy ([05:54], [07:07]).

Notable Quotes

• “So long as money is going to Communist China, it’s going to be used, quite likely, not for good, good, good things.” ([05:03] – Kennedy)
• "We don’t have patriotic businessmen, unfortunately." ([07:48] – Kennedy)

Legislative Recommendations and Recent Memorandum

• Kennedy and Gaffney sent a memo to White House officials urging strict enforcement and legislative measures to halt U.S. investments in Chinese military firms ([09:29]).
• Discussion of the new National Security Strategy and its lack of specificity on capital flows ([11:16]), and the importance of “reciprocal and fair” trade ([13:00]).

2. Surveillance and the "Digital Gulag" – Global Social Credit and Digital IDs

With Reggie Littlejohn, Founder of Women’s Rights Without Frontiers & Anti-Globalist International
[20:16–32:15]

Key Discussion Points

• The Chinese Social Credit System as a Global Threat

  • Gaffney introduces Littlejohn’s work fighting Chinese-style surveillance and population control abuses ([20:16]).
  • Littlejohn explains how China’s centralized social credit system tracks every aspect of citizens’ lives—location, behavior, medical records, online activity, etc.—to enforce conformity and punish dissent ([22:42]):

    “They know what you look like, where you are, where you live, where you work… Anything that is in digital form, it’s all put into a centralized database to come up with a number about how compliant a Chinese communist sheep you are.” ([23:12] – Littlejohn)

  • She warns that digital ID systems can be harnessed for similar control in the West.

• Building the Infrastructure for Digital Tyranny

  • The “digital gulag” is not a physical prison but a digital system constraining freedoms via surveillance and denial of access ([25:31]).
  • Massive data centers and artificial intelligence operate the infrastructure ([25:58]).
  • The biometric component is especially concerning because, unlike a credit card, biometric data can’t be changed if compromised ([27:02]).

• International Rollout and Policy Risks

  • The World Economic Forum and WHO are advancing interoperable digital IDs for banking, travel, healthcare, communication, voting, and more ([27:40]).
  • Potential abuse:

    “I'm not saying everyone implementing this is evil… but they are unwittingly setting up the system that could do that in the wrong hands.” ([28:30] – Littlejohn)

  • Larry Ellison’s vision:

    “We should all be wearing body cams so that everything we say, everything we do, everywhere we go, is going to be uploaded into AI…” ([29:21] – Littlejohn)

• Implications for the U.S.: Real ID and Beyond

  • Real IDs can swiftly become biometric-enabled, leapfrogging into the surveillance state if not carefully monitored ([31:00]).

Notable Quotes

• “You can change your credit card. You cannot change your iris. You cannot change your face.” ([27:07] – Littlejohn)
• "This is 1984 on steroids. My God, it is." ([30:36] – Gaffney)

3. Sharia Supremacism and the Muslim Brotherhood’s Influence in the West

With Peter McIlvenna, Hearts of Oak (UK), joined by Lord Malcolm Pearson
[33:25–49:23]

Key Discussion Points

• The Muslim Brotherhood’s Influence and Legal Inaction

  • McIlvenna discusses how the Muslim Brotherhood, although recognized as extremist, is only banned in Austria among European nations ([36:08]).
  • Despite years of evidence (in the UK, US, and elsewhere), Western governments have failed to decisively ban the Brotherhood, likely due to geopolitical and funding considerations ([36:54]).
  • Only Austria has taken concrete steps, with the UK merely "discussing concerns" ([36:54]).

• The Holy Land Foundation Trial and its Aftermath

  • Gaffney relates how the landmark U.S. terrorism financing case stagnated after the Obama administration, leaving over 300 unprosecuted co-conspirators, including CAIR ([39:32]).
  • Governor Abbott of Texas has recently designated CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood as terrorist organizations ([40:16]).

• Political Will and Policy Betrayals

  • Trump’s 2016 Youngstown speech promised to “strip out and remove one by one the support networks of radical Islam,” something Gaffney and McIlvenna agree is still unfulfilled ([43:40] – Gaffney).

• Grooming Gangs and Legal Threats to Speech

  • McIlvenna describes the mass rape and abuse perpetrated by “Muslim family mass rape gangs” targeting British girls, facilitated by police and media fear of "Islamophobia" accusations ([44:50]).
  • The UK government is codifying a legal definition of "Islamophobia," potentially making it illegal to criticize or expose abuses by Muslim groups or individuals ([45:24], [46:13]).

    “The UK government are going down the line that any criticism or any offense… means that the police must arrest you… if you're raising an issue… you have broken the law.” ([45:59] – McIlvenna)

  • This legal shift amounts to the state enforcing Sharia blasphemy codes ([47:25]).

    “You’re talking about the absolute adoption and enforcement of Sharia law by His Majesty’s Government if this were to proceed…” ([47:25] – Gaffney)

• Chilling Statistics and Ongoing Cover-Up

  • Up to 1 million young British girls may have been raped or enslaved by these gangs ([48:44]).
  • Legal prohibitions on speech would criminalize those who expose such crimes:

    “You cannot criticize these men for carrying out what they’re carrying out and the law will protect them… the state’s moving.” ([48:44] – McIlvenna)

Notable Quotes

• "Ban the Brotherhood… should be also thought of as saving civilization." ([35:45] – Gaffney)
• “There may be as many as 1 million young British girls that have been raped serially and enslaved in this fashion. Is that right?”
  – “That was a left-wing MP Sarah Champion said up to 1 million girls have been affected.” ([48:44] – Gaffney/McIlvenna)

Memorable Moments and Timestamps

• [01:55] — Frank Gaffney deconstructs Jamie Dimon’s Fox News interview and introduces the topic of U.S. investments in Chinese military companies.
• [13:00] — Brian Kennedy details the rare earth minerals/capacity dilemma underpinning U.S.-China trade and national security vulnerabilities.
• [20:35] — Reggie Littlejohn introduced, transitioning the show to digital surveillance and authoritarian social controls.
• [23:11] — Littlejohn’s chilling breakdown of China’s social credit system, delivered in stark language.
• [29:21] — Description of Larry Ellison’s body cam/AI-controlled future, underscoring Western tech’s role in the digital gulag.
• [36:54] — McIlvenna critiques Europe’s and the UK’s refusal to ban the Muslim Brotherhood despite years of evidence.
• [40:16] — Gaffney summarizes Western government failures in prosecuting Islamist networks due to changing political winds.
• [47:25] — The segment linking legal definitions of “Islamophobia” to de facto enforcement of Sharia blasphemy codes in Britain.
• [48:44] — The potential scale of sexual abuse enabled by political and legal trends.

Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode of "Securing America" weaves together the dangers of foreign threats enabled by Western policy failures, the looming risk of internal repression through digital technology, and the challenges posed by the spread of Sharia supremacism. The discussions are urgent, direct, and blend policy expertise with alarm over rapid changes in law, technology, and culture. Gaffney and his guests repeatedly call for legal, cultural, and civic awakening, particularly as the U.S. faces what they see as existential risks from both foreign adversaries and domestic complacency.

For further detail, listeners are invited to read Gaffney and Kennedy’s memo at presentdangerchina.org and to follow the organizations and guests featured throughout the episode.