Podcast Summary: Securing America with Frank Gaffney – December 6, 2025

Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Frank Gaffney (with iHeartPodcasts)
Notable Guests: Rabbi Pesach Wolicki (Israel365Action), Captain James Fennell (US Navy, Ret.)
Air Date: December 6, 2025
[Advertisements and non-content segments have been omitted.]

Episode Overview

This episode of Securing America with Frank Gaffney is a deep dive into two core national security issues:

1. The influence and operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Middle East and American society, and
2. The strategic threat posed by Communist China, especially its military build-up fueled in part by American investments.

The first half, featuring Rabbi Pesach Wolicki, scrutinizes policy debates around the US designating the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization and explores the geopolitical fault lines in the Middle East, focusing on Israel, Turkey, Qatar, and US policy.
The second half, with Captain James Fennell, assesses the US's financial and strategic engagement with China, Japan's position in the Pacific, and the Biden administration’s approach to Asia-Pacific alliances.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Muslim Brotherhood and the West

[03:00–14:51]

Muslim Brotherhood's Goals & Influence

• Frank Gaffney opens the show setting the stakes:

  "We're going to talk about an important part of the kingdom that would be the Holy Land, what is happening there and what it means in terms of the vital interests of the United States, not just of Israel." (03:00)

• Rabbi Pesach Wolicki describes the Brotherhood's ideology:
  • They enter into alliances and act peacefully until they have the power to impose Sharia; then, violence or subversion is used as needed.
  • Brotherhood destabilizes both Western and so-called “moderate” Arab regimes; non-Islamic governments (even Arab ones) are seen as illegitimate.

Designation as a Terrorist Organization

• Gaffney notes the Trump administration has expressed interest in designating the Brotherhood as a terrorist entity, but concrete action lags.

  "The absurdity that we're looking at right now is that the president ... is talking about possibly banning them when in the Middle East countries ... have designated them as a terrorist organization." (07:40, Rabbi Wolicki)

• Countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Jordan already ban the Brotherhood as a terror group.

Critique of Administration Policy

• Rabbi Wolicki criticizes perceived US double-standards:

  "On the one hand, President Trump is deeply in bed with the Qataris especially, but also with Erdogan and the Turks ... yet at the same time, he's talking about possibly banning them." (08:05)

  • Notes US is simultaneously allied with governments that fund or politically shield the Brotherhood (notably Turkey and Qatar).

Brotherhood's “Non-Violence” Argument Debunked

• Frank Gaffney asks about the claim the Brotherhood eschews violence:

  "That they're not really terrorists, that they, that they eschew violence, in fact, and that they seek, yes, to bring about Sharia. But, you know, they, they want to do it peacefully." (10:27)

• Rabbi Wolicki responds:

  "They are faithful followers of Muhammad and Muhammad did the exact same thing ... until you have the power to take over, you ... act peacefully ... Once you have the power to take over and implement Sharia law, you do." (11:27)

  • States Brotherhood can achieve goals quietly in the West:

    "If they can take over England and ... New York City ... without firing a shot, why should they bother getting violent?" (12:27)

2. Material Support, US Policy, and Nonprofits

[14:51–24:07]

Charitable Fronts and Funding Terror

• Gaffney raises material support as a criminal activity:

  "People tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, tied to Hamas and fundraising for it ... have gone to jail for a hard time because they were, in fact, providing financial underwriting to enable Hamas to operate." (13:17)

• Rabbi Wolicki highlights US-based nonprofits:
  • Cites Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) funneling money via Brotherhood-linked networks.

  "A lot of their funding is coming from 501c3s from nonprofit organizations in the United States of America." (19:44)

  • Predicts a comprehensive terrorist designation would require targeting these nonprofit fundraising vehicles and involve the IRS.

Political Resistance & Influence Operations

• Describes Qatari and Turkish dollars influencing US politics, academia, and defense policy:

  "The Qataris pour billions of dollars into American universities. They pour billions of dollars into influence operations, into purchasing people of very high status in the US Administration." (22:44)

• Pessimism about meaningful crackdown, given entrenched interests:

  "The most dangerous components of the Muslim Brotherhood to America are the Qatari and Turkish arms." (22:49)

US Policy Inconsistencies

• Gaffney:

  "...as President Trump is pressuring Israel, openly pressuring Israel to accept Turkish troops on the ground in Gaza ... at the same time as he's doing that, he's talking about banning the Muslim Brotherhood." (24:34)

  • Cautions that performative politics may not address underlying threats.

Call to Action

• Gaffney's conclusion:

  "We have to have a real national reckoning about whether we're going to tolerate... the further Islamification of our country, the inexorable insertion here of Sharia ..." (25:04)

3. Netanyahu’s Visit and Turkish Ambitions in Gaza

[28:57–36:05]

Israeli Security & US Pressure

• Rabbi Wolicki explicates recent Israel-Syria conflict:
  • After Israeli airstrikes against jihadist strongholds in Syria, Trump pressures Netanyahu to allow Turkish troops into Gaza as part of a “stabilization force.”

  "President Trump further pressured Prime Minister Netanyahu to accept Turkish troops as part of the international stabilization force in the Gaza Strip." (30:10)

• Wolicki outlines Turkey's real ambitions:

  "The reason the Turks want to get into Gaza is not because they want to be the ones to disarm Hamas ... they want to get in there so they have a foothold on Israel's border." (32:57)

• Turkey aims to replace Iran as Israel’s principal regional antagonist, entrenching its militias bordering Israel and using “peacekeeping” as cover.

Strategic Warnings

• Wolicki warns US policymakers:

  "If the Trump administration does not wake up to the fact that the Turks and the Qataris... are not part of the same camp as ... the Saudis, the Jordanians, and the Egyptians ... this will only end in disaster." (36:05)

4. The US, Wall Street, and Funding China’s Military

[39:57–49:19]

American Investments Underwriting the Adversary

• Segment opens with Captain James Fennell:
  • The US, via retirees’ mutual funds, is “unwittingly” funneling money into Chinese companies, fueling Chinese military modernization.
• Fennell’s insight:

  "All this cheating is going on ... and on the other side, the side that I study ... American money ... goes into in part, the People's Liberation Army." (43:17)

  • Modern US investments have empowered China’s growing navy, now the world’s largest.

Strategic Consequences

• Fennell outlines Chinese military advances:
  • New aircraft carriers, anti-ship missiles, amphibious assault ships.
  • Daily operations in the Philippine Sea and Western Pacific.

  "We have fed them, giving them money and it's got to stop. And Americans can do it themselves by not buying their stuff." (49:19)

5. Japan, Taiwan, and American Alliance Management

[52:14–61:17]

China's Escalation and Tokyo’s Response

• Frank Gaffney: US is allegedly soft-pedaling Chinese aggression to preserve trade arrangements and rare earth supply.
• Fennell clarifies and rebuts media narratives:
  • Reports that Trump told Japan’s Prime Minister Takechi to "lower rhetoric against China" are unsubstantiated.
  • Japan continues strengthening defense postures and has not recanted criticism of China.

  "Hardly the action of somebody that has been kowtowed ... Prime Minister Takechi dispensed her defense minister to Yonaguni ... to inspect for a surface-to-air missile battery." (55:29)

Quiet Diplomacy and Strategic Reassurance

• Fennell’s take:

  “Not everything has to be said loudly and in their face to get across that we're actually continuing to go after the PRC... I'm coming around to accepting that this may be successful... the alternative [would be] walk into Xi and tell him you hate him and then watch him stop selling his rare earth elements..." (60:00)

  • US policy is quietly signaling support for Japan and Taiwan, including signing the Taiwan Assurance Implementation Act.

Notable Quotes

On the Muslim Brotherhood:

• Rabbi Pesach Wolicki:

  “Violence is not the goal. Violence is just a means in the jihadist takeover. So Israel is fighting the Muslim Brotherhood kinetically … but in the Western world, they're simply taking over without firing a shot.” (12:27)

• Frank Gaffney:

  “We have to have a real national reckoning about whether we're going to tolerate, whether it's under the guise of … the Brotherhood or others, the further Islamification of our country …” (25:04)

On US Policy in the Middle East:

• Rabbi Pesach Wolicki:

  "At the same time as [the administration] is doing that, [it is] talking about banning the Muslim Brotherhood. Either willful blindness or a startling naivete going on." (24:49)

On Funding China’s Rise:

• Captain James Fennell:

  "We have fed them, giving them money and it's got to stop. And Americans can do it themselves by not buying their stuff." (49:19)

• "They are now in the position where they're the dominant naval force ... able to coerce nations and threaten them to follow what they say. And they're going to do that to us." (46:34)

On Japan, Taiwan, and Strategic Alliances:

• Captain Fennell:

  "Calling Prime Minister Takechi after President Xi is a huge boon to our alliance with Japan. And this new Taiwan Assurance Implementation Act signals ... the United States ... want to work closely with them to help them defend themselves." (58:40)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Muslim Brotherhood Ideology & US Policy: [03:00–14:51]
• Material Support & US Nonprofits: [14:51–24:07]
• Netanyahu’s US Visit & Turkey’s Gaza Ambitions: [28:57–36:05]
• Funding China's Military through US Investment: [39:57–49:19]
• Japan, Taiwan, & US-Asia Policy: [52:14–61:17]

Final Thoughts

This episode calls for vigilance—politically and civically—against foreign ideologies (Sharia supremacism, Chinese communism) and urges American listeners to support policy initiatives like the “Ban the Brotherhood” campaign and to reassess the economic ties enabling adversarial regimes’ rise.
The tone throughout is urgent, skeptical of surface-level policy actions, and advocating for grassroots and government-level activism to “secure America.”

For those who haven’t listened, this summary captures the strongest arguments, internal critiques, and urgent calls to action. The episode’s guests challenge accepted narratives and foreground security concerns with pointed, sometimes provocative, rhetoric that fits the show's overall ethos of "honest views" and national defense focus.