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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Afney. The program that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the glory of God and his kingdom. We have a very special treat in store for you. This end of year time. We are going to take stock on a part of the world that we touch on from time to time, but not often enough honestly and certainly not with the kind of extraordinarily high quality guest that we have with us for this purpose. For this hour long exploration of hemispheric security, how secure is our hemisphere and in particular secure for American vital interests? The man who has volunteered to spend an hour with us walking us through all of this is a friend of now many years. We have not had a chance to talk with him in a frightfully long time. But we are delighted to reconnect with Francisco Tudella. He is man of extreme accomplishment. In his native nation of Peru, he served as the country's Vice president, as its foreign Minister, as its ambassador, as I recall, to the United Nations. He has been at the very forefront of policy making and in particular national security thought in that strategically vital nation for decades. He was the highest ranking member of the government, taken hostage for a time by the Shining Path guerrillas. And amazingly, thanks to intrepid work by the armed forces of his country under its previous and somewhat controversial president, he escaped with his life, as did the other hostages, and has lived to carry on. It is an honor to have him with us to discuss topics of great mutual interest and to say once again, welcome to my friend Pancho Tudela and, and a happy New Year to you, my friend. I pray it will be one, yes.
- [03:02]
B
A happy New Year. And we hope it will be a fantastic year for the United States and for Latin America because things are changing and we have several electoral processes going on in Latin America in 2026.
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A
Indeed.
- [03:23]
B
And we hope that the trend of repealing the socialist place and changing them for center right or right wing administrations goes on. Because what we need is free market personal freedoms and decision to act against the enemies of the society and the state. And I think that 2026 will be a very fruitful year in that sense.
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A
Well, let's explore why that might be so. And I pray you're right, of course, in part. And I wanted to start our conversation with you on this premise that under President Trump, for the first time really in memory, the United States government is paying serious attention to what he's described as hemispheric security. As you know, he's made it a prominent feature of his new national security strategy. He has been not simply talking the talk, but walking the walk in particular with respect to Venezuela. And we'll come to that in a moment. But just for the purposes of level setting. Francisco, does the emphasis that is now being placed by President Trump and his administration on the hemisphere. Engender a level of support and an embrace, shall we say, by governments in the region, or are they, you know, responding to it with the kind of displeasure, shall we say, that has often met with American involvement in the hemisphere in the past?
- [05:34]
B
Well, I would say that it has drawn attention from the governments of the region. It's considered a very important and positive shift in not only the US Foreign policy, but in US Geopolitics, because American geopolitics were, until now, Atlantic centric. But the real challenges to the US Are in the Pacific, not in the Atlantic anymore. During the Cold War, of course, it was the Atlantic centric view that was predominant. That has changed. So now Latin America is in the strategic front line with the Indo Pacific in front of it and French Polynesia and Guam and part of Indonesia and Australia and New Zealand in the Southern Pacific. The southern and northern Pacific have been united geopolitically by the expansion of China as commercial power and also as a strategic power looking for spheres of influence and geopolitical points or levers in this continent. So the document that the White house released on December 4 on national security strategy changes completely the international position of the US In a certain way. President Trump is seeking a solution to the Ukrainian war so that the Europeans can find themselves once peace is established, because they are in trouble. They are in trouble due to the European Union. They are in trouble economically with huge deficits. They are culturally problem due to immigration and due to a loss of identity. And that is clearly signaled in the White House document. And so Europe has to, yes, it's.
- [08:16]
A
Been called civilization, erasure, among other things.
- [08:20]
B
Again, so the first priority for the US Is the unity of the Western Hemisphere. And that is logic from a cultural standpoint. And that has been understood on the hemisphere because there was a kind of resentment from the era of globalization in the 1990s up to the Trump administration saying, the US has. Has forgotten us. We are not a factor in the policy, the foreign policy of the US that has radically changed because the US has realized, as did Nicholas Spykman during the Second World War, the geopolitician in the Pentagon and the State Department that Latin America, South America as a unity is vital to the survival of a whole continent from the North Pole to the Antarctic. Hold the thought to the west.
- [09:33]
A
Mr. Ambassador, Mr. Vice President, stand by one second. We'd be right back with more with Francisco Pitville right after this. Welcome back. We are visiting for this full hour with one of the great statesmen of our time, a man who has served in his native land of Peru at the highest levels and done so with considerable effect. He has been a great friend of America and a champion of freedom more generally, both in his own country and throughout the Western hemisphere and truly around the world as well. His name is Francisco Tudela. He is a father, former vice president, foreign minister and UN Ambassador of his nation of Peru. And we catch up with him at a moment at the end of 2025 when both stock taking about what has been happening since Donald Trump came to office in the course of his second presidency and what might be coming next in terms of hemispheric security. And Francisco, I hated to have to interrupt you. We just were hard out of time. But you're making the point that American security interests and those of the hemisphere are inextricably intertwined. And a place where President Trump is asserting that very directly at the moment, as you know, is Venezuela. And I'd be very interested in your thoughts as to both the nature of the problem he's trying to address there. It turns out the government is really just a narco trafficking cartel on an epic scale. But what it means both for our own vital interests here in the United States and, you know, your country, among others, in the region as well. And where we go from here, as you see it, sir?
- [11:57]
B
Well, I would say that first I'll define what is South America. South America is part of the western world since the 16th century. That's very important to understand. It's a Christian continent that has a western language. It might have cultural diversity, but essentially Europe, the US, Canada and South America and Mexico are the western world. It's not Asia, it's not the Middle east, it's North Africa. We work under the same categories as Westerners. We want democracy, we want the rule of law, we want free trade, we want personal free freedom and initiative. We want to invent. Peru is a case of fantastic macroeconomic stability in the last two decades, even through very bad governments. But it has withstood the test. And Venezuela in that sense is an anomaly in the country continent. It's an anomaly not only because it has centralized as a territory of impunity the action of the great cartels like the cartel Vermelo of Brazil or the dissident FARC of Colombia, but also international cartels that work in connection with the cartel of the solace of the Venezuelan generals for drug trafficking, fentanyl, etc. But I would say that that is a huge problem, but parallel to another problem of great importance. And that parallel problem is that Venezuela, like Cuba, are alien and clavs in the Americas, in the Western Hemisphere, due to the presence of China, of Russia and Iran. Iran has a very strong presence in Venezuela. In the times of Chavez and Ahmadinejad, the Iranians built a factory for munitions in Venezuela for the Venezuelan army. And at the inauguration of that factory, Ahmadinejad said to Chavez in his speech, two revolutions meet in Venezuela. So it's an anti Western revolution of the Iranian regime, the democratic Islamic regime of Iran. Islamic, it's irreducible. Even if we tend to make distinctions between, let's say, Turkey and more radical Gulf states or Iran, in fact, Islam in general is irreducible. And so that Islamic presence in Venezuela is very disturbing. The Cuban control over Venezuela is also very disturbing, because Cuba is a Russian asset in the Caribbean. And when President Trump says the Gulf of America instead of the Gulf of Mexico, of course that brings a kind of skeptical spirit in life in America, because the Gulf of Mexico is its geographical name since the 16th century. But anyway, the concept is very clear. With Venezuela in the hands of drug traffickers and Cubans and the backers in Moscow and in Beijing and in Tehran. What is happening is that our boundaries are penetrated by these states. And so the military display, and more than display, I would say, preparations that are being made by the US in the Caribbean are indispensable to put pressure to put an end to that regime and to be able to return Venezuela to its Latin American tradition. We had our independence wars at the beginning of the 19th century, and we opted for the same political system than the US So we are democracies. We have a republican vocation. Even when we've had dictatorships, they always said that they were dictatorships, but in the name of democracy. So in fact, the concept, and that is very important, the cultural concept of republicanism, of democracy, of free trade, of personal freedom, is you cannot eradicate that from the mind of Latin Americans. What we have to do is work those concepts in a cultural war against these alien powers and its accomplices in the continent. To be able to build, as the national Security strategy released by the White House says, to build stable and well, governed societies in all our countries.
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A
Okay, so let me ask you, how do you get there from here in a place like Venezuela?
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B
Well, I think we are. There are all these new concepts. It's not anymore low intensity warfare. It's hybrid of warfare. And that means that you use civilian elements. That is the opposition pressure over the government, economic geoeconomics in the sense that you cut off the flow of oil and that means cutting off the income of Venezuela. You at the same time that you blockade Venezuela, you are blockading Cuba. And that's very important. Even if Mexico has diminished its support of Cuba in the sense of the amount of oil she sends to Cuba every week, the fact is that Cuba has been blockaded simultaneously with Venezuela. And what the U.S. i think could intervene if there was an insurrection in Venezuela. And that's the clue fact.
- [19:29]
A
Hold that thought, sir. That's where we need to pick up on is if there is some sort of disturbance, might the United States intervene or might it help create that disturbance? Much more with Francisco Tudella on the other side of this very short break. Stay tuned. Welcome back. And a special welcome once again to our guest for this full hour and most distinguished statesman hailing from Peru, but with a vision of truly global perspective about freedom and the threats to it that we're facing, particularly in the Western Hemisphere at the moment, but truly globally, including here inside the United States, Alas, his name is Francisco Tudella. He has served his country with great distinction in a variety of important capacities, notably as the country's vice president, also as its foreign minister. And this has informed, I think, the perspective that we're drawing upon for this very interesting hour of, well, assessing where we are with respect to hemispheric security, security a priority for President Trump and rightly so. And where we go from here in 2026. And Pancho, we were obliged to interrupt you there. Again, I apologize, but you were talking about Venezuela and the possibility of an insurrection in that country. And I think you were just tying things off with a comment that maybe the United States is helping to engender it. Walk us through what that looks like. We're very anxious. Many Americans are about getting embroiled in ground wars anywhere. Is that what's in prospect, do you think? If the United States does help in.
- [21:48]
B
An insurgency, I think the US Is helping to build pressure to, to make the government of Venezuela impossible to overturn that government. And the overturning of that government needs to be done by the Venezuelans. And so that's very clear, of course, Once that happens, the US can support that insurrection at certain points. And it can also do as happened with the nuclear program of Iran or with the Houthis in Yemen, it can strike specific targets where the high leadership of this narco state are. So, so there are several actions of special forces of intelligence, operations of precise chirurgical strikes can be done. But the big job you mentioned, the.
- [23:01]
A
Cubans, the Cubans are of course central.
- [23:04]
B
To keeping the Maduro regime have organized Venezuela for its offense, for its, for its political tyranny, for all its systems of security and intelligence. So they will have to be hit. That's a fact.
- [23:23]
A
And to the extent that this is all against the backdrop of an illegitimate government, in the case of Maduro's regime, and there was overwhelming support for his opponents in the last election there, this insurgency is essentially an opportunity to bring a legitimate government to power. And the role of the United States in doing that is, is essentially simply, in other words, that we're looking at putting into place conditions under which the people of Venezuela are able to have the government they elected, not the government that has been misruling them for decades. Is that basically how you see this?
- [24:12]
B
Yes, because in 2001 we all, the US all South American countries, we signed the Democratic charter. And the Democratic Charter is a document that establishes that our governments must be democratic and free. So Venezuela is an anomaly. It's a dictatorship in a continent that has chosen voluntarily at the beginning of the 21st century to opt for one system of government, which is democracy and the republican system. And Venezuela is a dictatorship. And there is a legitimate government of Venezuela. And so the action that the US is taking in international waters is an action of support of that legitimate government against the drug operations of the government of Venezuela and against its supplies through its dark fleet of oil to Cuba, its connection with Iran. They have this fleet, dark fleet like the Russians have, have of oil tankers that are now being intercepted and they avoid now going to Venezuela and that deprives Venezuela of cash. So survival, it's an oil exporting country, its survival depends on its capacity of its exports. And oil, it's its rain export. So what the US is doing is to help the legitimate government of Venezuela who is in exile. As it happened in the Second World War, you had a French government in London, you had a Dutch government in London, etc. Etc. A Polish government, and they were legitimate governments against the Nazi occupation of Europe. It's exactly the same figure. It's exactly that.
- [26:42]
A
So another factor in all of this and I want you to explain in your own country as well as Venezuela and other parts of Latin America, is the Communist Chinese and the role that they've been playing economically of course, most prominently, but also building out infrastructure and otherwise propping up tyrants like Maduro with oil purchases and the like. Talk a little bit about what China is up to, including in Peru, and how it plays into this effort of the President's to achieve hemispheric security.
- [27:26]
B
Well, China is not interested, particularly in democracy. China is not interested, but it's not interested in republican government because they are a totalitarian single party government. They are still Marxist Leninists they consider a crime. Private ownership of the press, they consider a crime. Any association of civil society. That's document number nine, internal document of the Communist Party of China of 2013. They consider a crime to propose free elections a crime against the Communist Party of China and the Chinese people, the document says. And they have this global civilization initiative that Xi Jinping released on 2023. And there they say, well, there are universal values, but each civilization makes an interpretation of that as they please. That means that their interpretation of universal values is dictator. Well, that's not interpretation of the Americas. We have a different thought about that. But the Chinese are interested essentially in gergonomics, in germanomic and glass. They are interested in domination through trade, through utilities, public utilities, ports, etc. Etc, etc. And they have built the first port port in Latin America and Peru, that is this port of Chiang Kai. And that in a certain sense waked up the US about the importance of the Western habit. Because the big contest of the 21st century is between China and the US in the Pacific. And it is not only in the North Pacific, as was the case in the 20th century during the Cold War, but now also in the Southern Pacific where you have Australia, New Zealand, the coast of Latin America, the U.S. samoa, Guam, a great part of Indonesia, etc. Etc. Etc. So the Southern Pacific, the Inter Pacific and the western coast of Latin America are now a main strategic interest of the U.S. that's why the document of the White House, the first priority is the Western hemisphere. And now President Trump has proposed to Peru to be an ally, a non NATO ally of the U.S. why? Because Peru is the third largest country in Latin America. It's twice the size of Texas, it has around 500,000 square miles. It's a huge country. It has a big population, 35 million, five boundaries, important boundaries that are politically and ideologically vital with Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Bolivia and Chile. What happens in Peru, impacts in the whole region. It's a country that has a prominent position in fisheries. It's the second largest fishing nation in copper, in all strategic metals.
- [31:23]
A
These are all vital, important issues. We're going to come back to them in a moment, including audio ports, one owned by China, right after this. Stay tuned. Back and we are continuing this fascinating conversation about a part of the world that frankly some call our backyard. I think of it as our front yard. It is vital to the security as well as the economy of the United States that we understand and be addressing appropriately the the dynamic forces at work in Latin America. And as our guest, former Vice President Francisco Tudela of Peru has been pointing out, there are elements of those dynamic forces, including some from outside our hemisphere, that are playing a very important and increasingly dangerous role in it. And one of the reasons why President Trump's attention to hemispheric security is so warranted and frankly, long overdue, is the wanton violation of something going back to the earliest days of our republic called the Monroe Doctrine, notably, not exclusively by any means, but notably by the Chinese Communist Party. And Mr. Vice President, you talked a moment ago about the extent to which these vast resources and incredible assets, if you will, territorial, among other things, of your nation have been, well, increasingly subject to exploitation and certainly penetration by the Chinese Communists. Give us a sense of, just as an example, a port. You mentioned how the southern Pacific is now very important strategically. That's in part because of a port that I'm told think by Yu in the past is not only sized but evidently configured by the Chinese to accommodate their carrier battle groups, a port called Chiang Kai on your west coast. Talk a little bit about that port, talk about the ownership of the port, talk about the potential use of the port port and how, for example, the government of Peru sees all of this at a moment when the president is talking about it becoming a major non NATO US Ally.
- [34:35]
B
It's a mega port, a very big port that has Chinese and Peruvian capitals, but the Chinese have the majority. It's the first port that China has built in the Americas. They operate several ports through concessions, but this port is the one they have built for themselves. The idea is that Super Paramax container ships 3 can make a direct route to China or of 21 days, shortening the time lapse that is used to cross the Panama Canal and then go to China. So in fact, and at the same time, it's like a duct that has been put against the richest mountain range in South America because the Peruvian Andes, the South African Rand and the Urals in Russia are the three richest mountain ranges in the world. We produce everything. And so this port might have in a more conflictive scenario also a military use because it's a deep port. And a task force force, a Chinese tax force could use support easily. But at the same time, we have to realize the fact that China is not interested if the government is tiran. The Peruvian government is tyrannical or is democratic or is whatever. They are not interested in the politics. They are interested in economic power and through economic power to have diplomatic control over the country. That has not happened. The reaction of the Peruvian government to the national security strategy of the US has been very positive. Our foreign Minister who said has just been in Washington and had a fantastic conversation with the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, the Minister of Defense the day before yesterday of Peru said that the US is a partner of choice for Peru. And so what that means is that people are aware that that we cannot relinquish our independence. We are an independent country and we are interested in maintaining that independence and sovereignty through our republican and democratic system. And that means that we can trade with China, of course, but we must not let them control our future. And let me ask you this, sir.
- [37:57]
A
If I may, because this is really the crux of the matter is that where the Chinese have gone with their belt and road initiative, including in Peru, is to create infrastructure. I think in the case of Peru, not only extensive mines and ports and electric grids, but effectively establishing a means of controlling the country is that of concern in Peru. And is the United States now a potential ally of choice in part in response to that?
- [38:40]
B
It is of great concern, but we have to take into account that they have. Non competitive advantage, the Chinese, and that is that the corporations may take a decision, the CEOs may take a decision, but it has the backing of the Politburo of the Chinese government. So if the Chinese government wants to have infrastructure in any country in Latin America and they have to pay three times the price to have it, they will, because the Chinese will be.
- [39:26]
A
We'll be right back with what the implications are of that for the US cannot region as well as our vital interests. Hold on. We'll be right back, sir. Stay tuned. Welcome back. We're now unbelievably so quickly at the final installment of this very important conversation with one of Latin America's leading statesmen, a man of uncommon insight and expertise. Francisco Tudella is his name. He has served in a number of senior positions in his Nation's government, including that of Vice President, foreign minister and UN ambassador. Mr. Vice President, we've been talking about China, we've been talking about communism, we've been talking about efforts to suppress freedom in the region and how it's given rise to an increasing imperative of, well, hemispheric security for the United States government. And to Donald Trump's credit, he is making clear this is indeed something he intends to attend to. Long overdue. China is, however, as you say, positioned in a number of countries, including yours, to exercise considerable influence, if not outright control, thanks to the investments that it has made to date and infrastructure and so on. Is it possible to free countries like yours from those sorts of influences and Chinese control more generally?
- [41:33]
B
It's possible to balance those investments to counterbalance them. What's the difference? The difference is that Chinese government companies are public owned companies, the big ones, like the case of Costco Shipping that owns the majority, Shanghai, and so they have public resources to buy things. And the same happens with Shugang with Iron or the other companies, or Three Gorge and the mining companies that are Peru or in Brazil where The Chinese employ 14 million Brazilians. And the fact is that the difference is that an American CEO, if the President of the United States asks, let's say a construction American company to invest in Peru, they will make their numbers and say no, Mr. President, it doesn't fit and I have to respond to my shareholders. And so we can't do this. The Chinese don't have that limitation. So the US has to find the areas, the cooperation areas, the investment areas in which they can get into the Western Hemisphere and the South American continent. And that is very important. There is a huge coastline. It's almost 2,000 miles long. There are 20 ports at coastline. And there are great strategic opportunities for American investments, but they have to be studied.
- [43:27]
A
Yes.
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B
So it made and sold to shareholders.
- [43:31]
A
I guess, as well. Mr. Vice President, let me conclude this very important conversation by talking about some positive developments in our hemisphere. You've been following them closely. Some involve your own country for that matter. But talk a little bit about changes in government that are moving to the right and what that might portend for, well, our security interests as well as those of the people most immediately involved.
- [44:05]
B
Well, the left has made a mess of the countries they have ruled. The Foro de so Paulo is discredited. One must never underestimate. They are a real danger. They will forever be a real danger. But now they are discredited. They don't have force. After the Castillo administration in Peru, nobody wants to hear about left. The same has happened in Bolivia where Rodrigo Paz has been elected and he has made a huge shift, abandoned the socialist policies of Arce and EU Morales. The same happens in Argentina with Milei, in Chile with Jose Antonio Cast that has been elected with a huge majority because people are fed up of socialist demagogue governments and of the permitting immigration. Because we have a problem in Latin America. The Maduro regime has created a massive emigration from Venezuela. We in Peru have 1 million and a half Venezuelans, Venezuelan migrants, a million of them in Lima. You can imagine the disruption that that means. That means also that you have good people, but at the same time you have criminal organizations, etc. People gathering political intelligence, penetrating the country. So we have a huge problem with Venezuela. So Venezuela not only poses a security threat to the US it poses a security threat threat to all Latin American countries. Because the cartels that operate with the support of Venezuela, like the Cartel Vermelo of Brazil, the dissident groups of the Farqui in Colombia, that have the support of the government, also of the government of Petro and the Mexican cartels, they operate in the cartel through this migration crisis that affects Chile, affects Peru, affects Ecuador, affects all our countries. So when President Trump puts in first place the Western hemisphere, he is trying to stabilize, I wouldn't say nor the front yard, nor the backyard. He's trying to stabilize the Americas because the Americas is a huge conglomerate of possibilities, of opportunities, of resources for the future. And there is a change, there is a shift to the right due to the failure of the left, but also due to the relinquishing of Latin America by the Democratic administrations, the Democratic administration of the U.S. like President Obama, President Clinton, and even George Bush Jr. We.
- [47:32]
A
Have to leave it at that. Mr. Vice President, thank you very much for your time today. Come back with updates on all of this and what promises a very important new year. God bless you, my friend. God bless the rest of you. Come back to us next time if you would. Until then, go forth. And it for. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.