SECURING AMERICA WITH FRANK GAFFNEY - NOVEMBER 8TH, 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Securing America with Frank Gaffney (November 8, 2025)

Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Frank Gaffney
Date: November 8, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the global persecution of Christians, focusing on Syria and the Middle East, America’s strategic interests in Africa, and an analysis of recent U.S. political developments and policy debates, especially regarding trade powers.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Securing America with Frank Gaffney brings together prominent voices advocating for persecuted Christians, with a particular focus on the humanitarian crisis in Syria amid the visit of Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara to the White House. The show connects these complex international issues to broader U.S. foreign and domestic policy questions, including the role of American leadership and values, U.S.-Africa relations, and the political landscape following the most recent elections.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

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1. The Syrian Crisis & Persecuted Christians (03:56–27:03)

Context & Call to Action

• Frank Gaffney opens with concerns over President Trump's dual stance: condemning Islamist atrocities in Nigeria, while hosting Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara—implicated in Christian persecution—at the White House.
  • Quote (03:56):
    "Last week, President Trump, to his great credit, resolved to punish radical Islamists in Nigeria... Next week, though, President Trump will actually be hosting Ahmed Al Shara… who until recently led radical Islamists..."
• Gaffney introduces Didi Morgeson (Save the Persecuted Christians), who details a new campaign to press for a humanitarian corridor in Syria and a public call for Trump to demand accountability from Al Shara.
  • Over 50 American Christian leaders have signed an open letter.
  • Website for public participation in sending letters: savethepersecutedchristians.org

On-the-Ground Reality: Suffering in Syria

• Didi Morgeson:
  • Quote (06:15):
    "We are launching a campaign to counter President Ahmed Al Shara... [calling for] a humanitarian corridor... where over 700,000 Druze and Christians and other minorities are suffering from a blockade..."
  • Mass graves discovered; thousands murdered and ongoing starvation.

Witness Testimonies – Panel Discussion

• Nadine Maimza (International Religious Freedom Roundtable) and Charmaine Hedding (President, Shai Fund, Israel) provide firsthand perspectives.
  • Maimza outlines Syria’s decades of sectarian manipulation by its leaders, leading to the hostage-like situation for Christians and other minorities.
    • Quote (09:42):
      "[Assad]...protected the Christians but really used them as hostages... The Christians are kind of caught in the crossfire..."
    • The regime’s security forces are implicated in atrocities against minorities.
  • Charmaine Hedding describes the inability to deliver aid due to the blockade and manipulation by HTS (Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham, an Al-Qaeda offshoot), with humanitarian convoys blocked and mass graves found.
    • Quote (18:41):
      "They're not allowing basic food, water, flour... and they are politicizing the aid..."
    • Quote (20:33):
      "HTS was a terrorist organization until it was delisted... and we’ve seen... Syrian national army uniforms with ISIS patches."

Solutions & U.S. Responsibility

• Discussion on the urgent need for:
  • A humanitarian corridor to Suwayda
  • Constitutional reform in Syria for equal rights for all minorities
  • Greater accountability for those facilitating or enabling atrocities
• Didi Morgeson:
  • Quote (21:43):
    "We need to call for equal rights for all ... Their constitution must be a constitution for all Syrians and not just for the Muslims..."
• Panel consensus: U.S. must not tolerate in Syria what it condemns elsewhere.

Geopolitical & Domestic Connection

• The spreading threat of jihadism, proxy wars by Turkey and Iran across Africa, and concerns over dangerous ideologies taking root even in the U.S.
  • Morgeson (26:27):
    "If we do not counter this jihad that's raging around the world...they are on our doorstep, they are knocking on the door, and they are in our streets. Frank, we are in danger."

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2. America’s Role in Africa & New U.S. Diplomacy (31:02–42:41)

U.S.-Africa Relations & China’s Challenge

• Frank Gaffney interviews Matt Chancey (Persecution Project) about the significance of Africa’s youthful demographics and strategic importance.
  • Quote (34:40):
    "Within 25 years we're going to see probably another billion added to [Africa]... the working age population is going to be greater... than India and China combined."
  • The U.S. must pivot away from old models, especially as China expands its influence through the Belt and Road Initiative.

New Approach to Diplomacy: South Africa

• The appointment of Brent Bozell as U.S. Ambassador to South Africa is highlighted as a bold, potentially game-changing move.
  • Bozell’s media background equips him for “information war” diplomacy.
  • Chancey (37:36):
    "Trump ... understands the importance of messaging ... he chose someone who ... understands this new war that we’re in."

Policy Recommendations

• Chancey urges a nuanced American policy based on local alliances, advocating engagement with sub-national, pro-Western groups ("don't accept the status quo").
  • Quote (41:21):
    "We just need to recognize there are elements within these nations that we need to deal with ... someone like Brent Bozell ... can come in with fresh eyes."

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3. Election Analysis and the State of Republican Politics (46:24–54:20)

Post-Election Dissection

• Rod Martin (Institute for the American Future) assesses recent Democratic wins in traditionally blue states (New York City, Virginia, New Jersey), citing low Republican turnout and lack of top-of-ticket motivation.
  • Quote (47:31):
    "The headline is blue candidates win in blue states... We clearly didn't turn our base out in this election at all."
  • Emphasizes long-term changes in U.S. regional political shifts are possible with focus and patience.

Redistricting and Power Balance

• Discussion about gerrymandering, the need for Republicans to learn from Democratic strategies, and the advantages/disadvantages of district restructuring.
  • Martin (51:38):
    "The redistricting effort is key... we can definitely pick up seats in Florida. We can pick up seats in a number of red states..."
• The future of Trump’s influence, and possibilities for new GOP leaders (J.D. Vance, Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz).

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4. Executive Power and U.S. Tariff Policy (57:47–65:19)

Supreme Court & Tariff Authority

• Martin and Gaffney break down ongoing Supreme Court deliberations over the president’s authority to impose tariffs versus Congressional control.
  • Martin (58:52):
    "The Democrats ... were perfectly happy for presidents to have basically unilateral authority to impose tariffs for the entire last century ... and their presidents repeatedly imposed tariffs wherever they thought it good and proper to do so. So they're just lying."
• Key legal differences between tariffs as a tax (legislative) vs. an instrument of commerce/foreign policy (executive).
• Martin foresees the court upholding broad executive authority based on decades of legal and constitutional precedent.

Potential Implications

• If the court rules against current practice, significant financial and policy consequences may unfold, including the potential need to return collected tariff revenues.
  • Martin (64:36):
    "That has never been overruled...and it gives the president effectively unfettered authority to do anything he wants to do in the tariff space up to a limit of 50%."

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Frank Gaffney (03:56):
  “President Trump ... resolved to punish radical Islamists in Nigeria ... Next week, though, President Trump will actually be hosting Ahmed Al Shara at the White House ... Let us pray that Mr. Trump will make clear that his protection extends to those great Christians in Syria too.”

• Didi Morgeson (06:15):
  “We are launching a campaign ... to secure a humanitarian corridor from Hader ... to suwayda, where over 700,000 Druze and Christians and other minorities are suffering from a blockade...”

• Nadine Maimza (09:42):
  “Syria is so complicated ... The Christians are kind of caught in the crossfire and it's a very hostile place for them to be.”

• Charmaine Hedding (18:41):
  “They're not allowing basic food, water, flour ... they are politicizing the aid. They will not sign off on it ... using it to blockade the Druze in order to weaken them...”

• Matt Chancey (34:40):
  “Within 25 years ... the working age population [in Africa] is going to be greater ... than India and China combined.”

• Rod Martin (47:31): "The headline is blue candidates win in blue states. There's no getting around that... we clearly didn't turn our base out in this election at all."

• Rod Martin (58:52): "The Democrats...were perfectly happy for presidents to have basically unilateral authority to impose tariffs for the entire last century..."

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Notable Moments

• (08:04–08:32) — The show airs a hard-hitting video plea for urgent action to stop the massacre and starving of Syrian Christians and Druze, reinforcing the emotional urgency.
• (25:22) — Didi Morgeson connects the Syrian crisis to the broader pattern of jihadist violence spreading throughout Africa.
• (26:27) — Morgeson issues a warning about the rising domestic threat, referencing viral warnings about infiltration of jihadist elements in the U.S.

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Conclusions

• The episode sharply critiques inconsistencies in U.S. foreign policy regarding the protection of Christians overseas and calls for moral clarity and action from American leadership.
• It links the plight of religious minorities in Syria and Africa to urgent policy debates in Washington, D.C.
• Election analysis spotlights the need for Republican self-examination and adaptability in the face of changing electoral maps and turnout dynamics.
• The show closes with a rigorous, legally attuned debate over presidential powers—reflecting both the practical and constitutional stakes in how America secures its interests globally.

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For more information or to participate in advocacy:

• Visit savethepersecutedchristians.org to send a letter to the President or to get involved in the campaign for persecuted Christians.

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This summary distills the central content, insights, and tone of the episode, omitting advertisements and peripheral announcements. All referenced dialogue preserves the speakers’ perspectives as presented in the broadcast.

Transcript

[Didi Morgeson]

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Foreign.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Gaffney. The program that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the glory of God and His kingdom. We have a very important conversation that we're going to begin momentarily with three of my favorite people working in the space of protecting Christians being horribly persecuted around the world. Before we get to it, I want to just give you a minute of my thoughts as context. Last week, President Trump, to his great credit, resolved to punish radical Islamists in Nigeria, responsible for the mass slaughter of Christians. In a social media post on Oct. 31, he declared, quote, the United States cannot stand by while such atrocities are happening in Nigeria and numerous other countries, we stand ready, willing and able to save our great Christian population around the world. Next week, though, President Trump will actually be hosting Ahmed Al Shara at the White House, a man who until recently led radical Islamists of Al Qaeda and ISIS in committing atrocities against Christians and others in Syria. Worse yet, now he's Syria's president. They have ties to his regime and are continuing with impunity to perpetrate such persecution. Let us pray that Mr. Trump will make clear that his protection extends to those great Christians in Syria too. Well, with that, let me introduce my dear friend and valued colleague, the President and CEO of Save the Persecuted Christians, Didi Morgeson. She is no stranger to this program. She has been with us for quite some time now bringing you information about this most horrific crime against humanity of all human history, namely the persecution of now some 380 million Christians around the world. Didi, it's so good to have you with us and I know you've brought some big guns in the Save the Persecuted Christians community. Introduce them, please. And a short video that you've done as well on the subject. You see it.

[Didi Morgeson]

Thank you, Frank. As you know, Save the Persecuted Christians started in 2018, endeavoring to raise awareness about the plight of more than 380 million Christians facing the most brutal and extreme violence in a record number of countries globally. We are a large, national, multifaith, bipartisan coalition of civil society leaders who work to work with concerned Americans, victims of persecution, and others to hold the perpetrators accountable for their crimes against humanity. And, Frank, we are launching a campaign to counter President Ahmed Al Shara, who is coming, as you said, to the White House on Monday. We are launching a social media video that will be shared by multiple platforms across the web starting tomorrow. We also have over 50American Christian leaders who've signed onto a faith letter, Frank, that we'll be sending to the president also tomorrow. And we have a call to [e-mail] where the American public can also send a letter to President Trump. So, Frank, this letter and the video call on President Trump to secure a humanitarian corridor from Hader, which is a Druze city near the Israeli border, to suwayda, where over 700,000 Druze and Christians and other minorities are suffering from a blockade that has continued to endure since they were attacked this summer. Frank. And over 3,000 people murdered. Now they're finding mass graves. Frank, let's go to the video, and then we'll come back and introduce our guests.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Massacre in Syria. Christians and others are being slaughtered by radical Islamic terrorists. Burned alive, beheaded, persecuted for their faith.

[Charmaine Hedding]

And their cries have been ignored.

[Nadine Maimza]

Their suffering is deepening as winter approaches. 700,000 people in Sweda are starving, deprived.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Of water, food, and basic medicine. President Trump, you're the only world leader.

[Rod Martin]

Fighting for religious freedom.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Tell President Alshara to keep his promises.

[Nadine Maimza]

And stop blocking humanitarian aid.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Tell Alshara end the blockade. Wow. Very powerful. Didi, congratulations on pulling this together and this larger campaign. I'm proud to have been one of the signers on that letter, and I'm so excited that others will be able to join us in calling for this humanitarian corridor. We've got two guests with us who have deep experience in this region, including one who's just returned from Syria. Introduce them, if you would. Dede, please.

[Didi Morgeson]

Certainly. Nadine Maimza is the co chair for the International Religious Freedom roundtable in Washington, D.C. and my friend Charmaine Hedding is the president of the Shai Fund located in Israel, but does amazing work around the world.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Frank and Nadine, maybe we could talk with you a little bit from your on the ground assessment of what is going on. What Didi described is horrific and it stands in, you know, similar light to what the President has said he's not going to tolerate in Nigeria. Should he tolerate it in Syria?

[Nadine Maimza]

Of course not. And you know, Syria is so complicated because of course, we had 60 years of authoritarian rule by Bashar Al Assad that really divided religious communities against each other. He set up the majority against the minority. So a lot of people have this belief that he protected the Christians but really used them as hostages kind of against the Sunni majority and setting up a situation now where there's so much hostility and anger towards different sects. The Christians are kind of caught in the crossfire and it's a very hostile place for them to be. And of course, with so much of the violence we've seen in Syria, there has been proof that the government themselves, the security forces of the government, have been implicated, in fact, sometimes even upload videos of themselves committing atrocities against, in particular, Druze, Alawites and sometimes Christians. And so this in the.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Just to be clear, there's no question in your mind that the government of Syria under Al Sharaf Omar Al Jalani is implicated in these actions?

[Nadine Maimza]

Well, their security forces are. And the question really is, is it that they're following orders or is it that the government has no control over them? I don't believe that Alshara thinks it would be a win for him to be committing atrocities against these communities right now. But he has these Islamist forces, some that answered the call to jihad that came from around the world, the foreign fighters, to join hts, his original terrorist group, Attel Al Shar, and then to move on and become part of the government. So. So it's a complicated situation. I've talked to several people in the government that do want peace and stability. They don't want this kind of violence, but because. And there, there's impunity for people that kidnap and kill religious minorities. It's. It's kind of set the stage for, for people to think they can get away with those kind of crimes without any sort of accountability.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

I was told, and I don't know if you can comment on this, that in the immediate run up to Al Sharah coming to the United nations to speak and to be feted as a great, you know, reformer, notwithstanding his past track record with these jihadists, I think villages in these minority areas were put to the tort and the implication was that he did know about it and countenanced it. Do you have any comment on that?

[Nadine Maimza]

Well, we do know there has been, you know, no, no focus from the government to stop it. There's been them no sending, not anytime they've sent in troops to bring peace. It's done the opposite. So it's hard to know exactly who is, how coordinated these are and what the government, if the government is a part of them. But the fact remains they're happening, that people are losing their lives, they're being kidnapped for ransom, sometimes being killed before you know, even if they collect the ransom, that these horrible atrocities are happening throughout Syria and there is no cost for them committing these crimes and that environment, regardless of how if in fact they're complicit or they're just allowing it to happen, are not able to stop it, it's still, this is part of it. Yeah.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

And Didi, I'm so grateful to you for your leadership in all of this. The work of the Save the Persecuted Christian Coalition is to try to ensure that the perpetrators are held accountable and are penalized for what they're doing. And this needs to be done, it seems to me, with respect to the Syrian regime as well as these so called security forces. Dede, we're almost out of time before the break, but I did want to thank Charmaine Hedding for joining us as well. And we're going to talk with her on the other side of the break about how all of this is perceived by her of course, as well as from Israel, which is unfortunately in the crosshairs of these Jihadis as well. We'll be right back with that and more. Stay tuned please.

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[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Welcome back. We are talking with three of my personal heroes in the fight to save persecuted Christians and much else, frankly. They are saving Western civilization because the people killing Christians want to take down Judeo Christian civilization. Dede, introduce our friend Charmaine once again, if you would, please. Nadine Mensah and I had a little rift there going, but we haven't heard from Charmaine and she's got a very important contribution to make to this discussion.

[Didi Morgeson]

As I said, Frank, Charmaine Hedding is the president of Shai Fund in Israel and she is one of those who is very desperately trying to get humanitarian aid across the border and into Suweta. People are literally dying of thirst, Frank. They can't get water even. So, Charmaine, tell us a little bit about some of the hurdles that you're experiencing trying to get your humanitarian aid in.

[Charmaine Hedding]

Thanks for having me, Frank and Didi. Yeah, I think it's important to understand that the Druze community, which is a religious ethnic community in Syria, has communities in Lebanon, in Syria, and of course in Israel. And they have mobilized a tremendous amount of support, as much as they can to get the aid across the border and into Sueda where the Al Sharar regime has enforced a blockade. And so they're not allowing basic food, water, flour. You know, these kinds of communities consume vast amounts of flour, tons of it. And we know that there's a massive shortage of these and other medicines. And the problem is, is that it's going supposed to go through Damascus, where governor, the governor of Damascus, which is an HTS governor, then has to sign off on all of the aid, including the aid that's going through the mid crescent. And they are politicizing the aid. They will not sign off on it. And they are using it to blockade the Druze in order to weaken them so that they do not protest against what is happening. And what is happening is an, an ethnic cleansing. We've just heard today that there were mass graves found, the amount of gang rapes. We know that 38 villages of the Druze are in control of HTS and they're not giving them back.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

And we want again, just to, just to clarify, Charmaine HTS is the Al Qaeda, ISIS sort of, you know, subsidiary that was run by this president of Syria until very recently. So when you're talking about hts, are you talking about a terrorist organization to which he still has connections?

[Charmaine Hedding]

Of course we know that he's connected to Al Qaeda. We know that he knows what Al Qaeda is up to across the region, including in Afghanistan. And yes, HTS was a terrorist organization until it was delisted, just until he was delisted recently. But there's also other groups that he's brought into his Syrian national army for the transitional government. At this point, we're still in a transitional period, and they have elements of ISIS in, and we've seen a number of Syrian national army uniforms in Sweden with ISIS patches. So we know. I've seen those. It's a clue. And if we don't get it, shame on us.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Yeah. Dede, I want to explore further this proposition that if you could get a humanitarian corridor that obviously doesn't get subjected to the same kind of hijacking or manipulation, it might actually help stave off some of the worst of the persecution that is befalling these people. Is that right?

[Didi Morgeson]

Absolutely. Frank. If the people can be strengthened. And they're not the only ones suffering in Syria right now. The Christians in Damascus are suffering. The Kurds and Christians and other groups who have formed their own autonomous region and self governance up in northeast Syria are also under the pressure of these Syrian army, you know, HTS commanders and fighters and there. So we need stability in Syria and we need to. We need to call for equal rights for all of the minorities in Syria. Their constitution must be a constitution for all Syrians and not just for the Muslims of Syria. There are so many things, the jihadists most especially. Yes, but to. First and foremost, the biggest priority here is to stabilize the lives of those who are literally being starved to death and deprived of everything they need for life.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Yeah.

[Didi Morgeson]

The US Plays a strong role in this.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Yeah. Just to wrap this up, we've got three minutes. Just if each of you would, in your own words, speak to this issue. President Trump has taken a very strong and desperately needed stance about, as I said in my commentary, not just the Christians in Nigeria, but Christians in other nations around the world? Must he now take the same stance, even if it's uncomfortable with a guy who hasn't, again, at the very best, until recently, been directly implicated in the kind of Islamist terror and persecution that he abhors in Nigeria? Rightly, and may still be doing it, albeit through, you Know, Khadats, Nadine, let me start with you.

[Nadine Maimza]

Yeah. So I think that, as you know, president prepares to meet with President Trump prepares to meet with Al Shara this, this next week in, in Washington. He'll make a case for the Christians, for all the minorities of Syria. And part of that is how they set up this governance. They set it up in a decentralized way where, where local communities have a say in their own security and in their own governments. Right now, all the mayors are from Idlib. The security forces are all from Idlib, which means they're all part of hgs. Local Christians can't have a say. They can't secure their own areas. If that changed, and we in the president, the White House pushed for decentralization so that people could have a say in their own government's own security that could produce some safer areas for these minorities to be able to live. And that's something the White House could absolutely demand from this government, and it.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Would go far for these people and really must. Charmaine, your thoughts on that question?

[Charmaine Hedding]

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that Christians are being caught up and a lot of these jihadis are saying, we're coming for you next. And in the Sueda region where the massacres happened with the Druze, we know that there were Christians that were killed. Whole Christian families, Muslim background, believing churches that were existing in this region with the Druze were all wiped out by these jihadis. If we say we care for the religious minorities, then we have to have a decentralized Syria with equal citizenship for all. That offers protection for everyone within that country. It's a priority.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

So really it's a bigger project than just a humanitarian corridor to try to really prevent what's going on at the moment. Didi, your thoughts on the question?

[Didi Morgeson]

Well, Frank, the proxy wars of Turkey and Iran into the Middle east is spread all throughout Africa. Not only Nigeria, Nigeria, but Burkina Faso, Niger, Mozambique, Mali, Sudan, Ethiopia. They are all suffering from these jihadists. President Trump is a truth teller, and he is standing for persecuted Christians around the world. He's got a big fight on his hands.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Let me just say, Didi and all three of you, if you could comment very briefly on this. We're facing the reality, as I think you said, Nadine, they're coming for Christians elsewhere, too, including in this country. We just had Zoran Mandani elected to run New York City. And a man who makes no bones. I think about his affinities for this Sharia supremacism. Is this a problem for Americans here at home as well. Didi, may we start with you?

[Didi Morgeson]

Yep, very much so, Frank. In fact, going viral on social media Today is a 2019 video of Cardinal Serra who said, the barbarians are already here. And I've been saying if we do inside the gate, if we do not counter, if we do not counter this jihad that's raging around the world. And we've invited them into our borders here through the Biden administration. They are on our doorstep, they are knocking on the door and they are in our streets. Frank, we are in danger.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

I'm sorry, Nadine and Charmaine, I'm out of time today to ask you to respond to that same question. But I know it's on your hearts to come back and we'll address all of these issues at greater length in the near future. In the meantime, God bless you and the great work you're doing to save persecuted Christians. Keep it up. God bless the rest of you as well. Stay tuned for more of Securing America right after this.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealth break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

That's exactly why we created the Wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

We're back. And so I'm very pleased to say, I think for the first time is Matt Chancey. He is a man who has spent his, well, much of his professional life, at least in Africa, living in Africa for about eight years, working in and on issues of great importance to the continent in his capacity as an executive of the Persecution Project outfit founded by a great friend of mine and, well, an inspirational figure, I think, in the conservative movement, Brad Phillips. We are very pleased to have him with us to talk about an important development in U.S. african American relations that we're going to explore. Whether it might be a tipping point for a kind of new approach on the part of the Trump administration to a continent of, well, frankly, surpassing importance. Don't take my word for it. The Chinese Communist Party thinks it is of surpassing importance and has got its hooks into most of the nations of that continent in the form of its Belt and Road initiative or other, well, very ominous relationships. We're going to talk to Matt first about the country of South Africa and the appointment as the US Ambassador there of an old friend and another very esteemed preeminent figure in the conservative movement. And I'm going to allow him to set the stage for that conversation about Ambassador Brent Bozell and what he might open up in the way of new opportunities not only in the tip of Africa, but also across that immense continent. Matt, thank you for joining us. Thank you for the work that you and Brad Phillips have been doing for so long to try to, to lift up persecuted Christians especially and to, you know, lay out a different approach to the region and its people than we've been following for far too long. Tell us a little bit about Brent's arrival and its implications, sir.

[Frank Gaffney]

Well, thank you, Frank. It's always a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you for the work that you do and just raising the awareness level of Americans to these regional threats, these global threats that we face. Africa is a continent of mystery for Americans, for American policy. We really haven't had a very coherent, consistent policy for Africa. We've always allowed our policy to be impacted and influenced and directed sometimes by other regional allies that that we have. And so America, because of Africa's traditional non significance in our economic policy, we've tended to ignore it. But we can't ignore it any longer. We have a situation where this continent is becoming increasingly consequential in global affairs and it's going to continue in the decades to come. It just give us a little bit.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Of the reason why you, you were talking with me off air about some of the demographics which are just right.

[Frank Gaffney]

Africa is going to win by default in many respects because right now there's about a billion and a half people on the continent. Within 25 years we're going to see probably another billion added to that. So you're going to have a situation where in Africa the working age population is going to be greater in 25 years than India and China combined. Now, you recall, Frank, very well that, you know, 25, 30 years ago everyone was talking about the Asian century that was coming. Well, that's, that's just that may have played out in the first few decades, but on the second half of this century that is not going to be the case. We're seeing it, for example, I think in Japan. I've read somewhere that they sold more adult diapers than children's diapers last year. And when you look by the by the year 20, 50, I think the average age of Japan is projected to be over like 53 years old. In China, it's going to be up 50. Even India is going to show a little gray. It's going to be around 40. In Africa it's going.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

But interestingly enough, Matt, as you know, in China, it's not just that they're going to be in aging population is they're going to be a fraction of its present number.

[Frank Gaffney]

Exactly. They're going to lose hundreds of millions of people.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Estimates they're going to have. Yeah. A population the size of ours, for heaven's sakes. So beyond, beyond the demographics, it's a continent rich with resources.

[Frank Gaffney]

Exactly.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Opportunities for exploiting them and making money. And so for all these reasons, it's going to be a place we have vital, vital interests in. But talk to me a little bit about Brent Bozell and his sort of, well, his credentials, I guess one might say. But also the kinds of things that you expect might be possible in South Africa, arguably the most important single country of that entire continent.

[Frank Gaffney]

Well, just to set the stage, South Africa is presently our largest trading partner on the continent, has been for some time. And so it kind of acts as a canary in the coal mine for a lot of, lot of things regarding American policy. And I see that Brent Bozell's appointment is going to be very, very influential because he came out of the blue. Nobody expected this appointment. And I think that Donald Trump just didn't pull a name out of a hat. I think he was very selective in who he chose for this role. And I think that Trump, being a very media savvy president, he understands the, the, the, the, the importance of messaging because I don't know if you hear that train in the background, but I'm near, I'm near the tr. I'm on the other side of the track, so to speak. I've always been on the other side of the tracks, but I hope it's.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

The right side either way.

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah. Yes, yes, exactly. Well, Brent Bozel has been in the arena of media his whole professional life, practically. He started the Media Research center, which tracks bias in the media. So he understands that we've been in a cold war for a long time, but this changed and now it's an information war. And I think Trump understands that very well as president and he chose someone who understands this new war that we're in. And in a very difficult diplomatic post, it would be South Africa right now, a country that Trump has a lot of personal interest in, which is also an interesting topic. Why he would care. I think he made his choice intentionally. Someone who he could trust, someone who is a movement conservative, someone who's an old cold warrior, if you will, but who understands the new nature of this battle. And so I think it was a very strategic and very wise pick for this country, which is the sort of the canary in the coal mine for what we could see in U.S. policy and the rest of the continent.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Let's talk a little bit about that policy approach that you would recommend based on your experience there, particularly in Sudan and countries like it.

[Frank Gaffney]

Sure. Yes. Well, I think that we have to, when we look at Africa, we have to realize that so much of the continent was put together by European powers, you know, more than a century ago. And so when we look at the geographic lines in Africa, they were not drawn by Africans. Most of them were not drawn by Africans. And so you have what we would call nations when you look at it on a map, but they're more like regions and there are nations within those regions. And so I think that in the future we need to recognize that and stop trying to treat them as these contiguous homogenized entities when they actually are not. And they have different people, different languages, different cultures and different interests and different foreign alignments. And so I think that America's policy going forward in Africa should be to identify our natural allies that are within these regions, these sub national groups that you're going to find in South Africa, that you're going to find in places like Sudan. Too often we're given the choice between one Islamist or another Islamist leader in Sudan, for instance, when we really don't need to be making that doesn't even need to be on our radar. We need to be finding pro American, pro Western interest in these regions and they do exist. And we need to be investing in those. We need to be making deals with those, we need to be making treaties with those. We need to be treating these sub national groups as partners and not having this sort of one size fits all and assuming that we have to accept what was created 140 years ago at the Berlin conference. So I think that that's a start that we need to change our mission.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Detritus.

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, exactly.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

You're absolutely right. And what do you say, Matt? We've got just a minute or so left. But what do you say to people who argue, well, we can't be about, you know, breaking up nations. There are in many cases people to work with there. But what's your response to that proposition?

[Frank Gaffney]

That's correct. Well, we don't need to be about breaking up nations. We just need to realize that there are these elements within these nations that we need to deal with. We need to not be afraid of reaching out and being a little unorthodox in our approach to these sub national groups within African nations. And I think we have an opportunity in places like Sudan to do that in the Nuba Mountains where Brad Phillips and I work in South Africa among the people of say, the Western Cape, which are far more US Aligned. The Afrikaans community, again, very much US Aligned. And I think someone like Brent Bozell who hasn't had an experience in Africa, can come in with fresh eyes. He's sort of tabula raza, blank slate. He's going to look at all the options and not accept the status quo. And I think that that's what we really need right now. Don't accept the status quo. That's Donald Trump. He doesn't accept the status quo. He's reshuffling the deck. He's clearing the deck. He said, okay, what makes sense for America going forward. And I think that's what we need.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

America first. Matt Chancey, we so appreciate your time, your expertise. There's so much more to talk about. We are going to be lifting up Africa as a major focus of this program and we look forward to doing so with your great help. Thank you for the work you and Brad do.

[Frank Gaffney]

As I say, thank you very much.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Keep an eye on it folks. It's vitally important. Keep an eye on us. We're going to be right back with Rod Martin. Stay tuned.

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[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

We're back. And so is Rod Martin, the chairman of the board of the Institute for the American Future, which makes this program possible. We could not be more grateful to him for his leadership of that organization and for so much else, including what he is now doing as the proprietor of rodmartin.org where you can find the Rod Martin Report. It is an extraordinarily resourceful platform and I am proud to say he's featured on our program and our interviews with him on it in many ways, and we're grateful for him doing so as well. Rod, it's a very important moment to be taking stock with you and your free range mind. Wasn't a great day on Tuesday for the Republic or the Republicans for that matter, and perhaps most especially for Donald Trump. Give us your reading on what went down in particular, New York City as well as Virginia and New Jersey, most especially.

[Rod Martin]

Well, in typical political fashion, I'm going to argue both sides of this. So the headline is blue candidates win in blue states. There's no getting around that. We don't have any business winning in those three places. We certainly weren't going to win the initiative in California. There was never any chance of that. So, you know, on a certain level, we shouldn't be that surprised. Now getting a little more micro and thinking about the future. Donald Trump made a big point of the fact that, you know, maybe we lost because he wasn't on the ballot. Well, the problem is he's never going to be on a ballot ever again. So Republicans have to get their act together in the absence of Trump at the time, top of the ticket. And I think that we're on track for that with J.D. vance or even Ron DeSantis or Ted Cruz, but probably Vance. I think we've got a good bench. Marco Rubio, certainly possible. You know, these guys can lead and I think they can sell in Pennsylvania and Michigan and so forth. I also think that we're looking at a decent future in maybe, maybe not Virginia, probably New Jersey because we're making some real ground there in a number of ways on the ground. And that's a long, slow, tedious process. But the Democrats have done it to us taking over California, taking over Colorado. We've done it to them taking over the entire south and now winning the so called blue wall at least twice. So clearly things change. They aren't static. We shouldn't look at it from just election to election. However, in the immediate term, we clearly didn't turn our base out in this election at all. We had terrible turnout numbers on the right. The left was thoroughly motivated. That could easily carry over into next year. So I want to echo Newt Gingrich's take on that. We took way too long to pass the one big beautiful Bill Act. It means that we're going to start getting the real boom that comes from that later in the year, next year, than we'd like. If we screw that up, we're going to lose the House, maybe the Senate, and in the process, Donald Trump is going to spend the rest of his presidency fighting off impeachment attempts versus if we win, we can actually finish the counter revolution and we have a glide path into 28.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Well, that is a hopeful rendering of it. I take it you do not associate yourself with those who think Donald Trump can somehow run again. TRUMP 28. As some of our friends are saying, not on, not in the card, sir.

[Rod Martin]

Some of our friends are trolling the left, which is an. Which is a permanent pastime for many of us, and I don't mind it at all. What they're doing is they're sucking up airtime that could be going to real issues where the president could be getting attacked and instead pushing this fantasy that he's somehow going to be a dictator for life. It's just not going to happen.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

A king, I think, is the word.

[Rod Martin]

For it's not going to happen.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Yeah, yeah, Unconstitutional. And any change to that would be insuperably hard. So, Rod, in terms of kind of the bottom line, do you sense that the Republicans under Donald Trump have what it takes to make the kinds of course corrections that will motivate their base, that will result in at least a fighting chance in the midterms to hold on to control? And to that point, how about all this redistricting business? Is that going to make it more likely they do?

[Rod Martin]

Well, I think the redistricting effort is key, and I would feel bad about that if it weren't that the Democrats have already completely gerrymandered every state they can control. And that's the real joke of Prop 50 in California. 42% of the state is Republican and the Republicans have 17% of the congressional districts. And you're going to take a few more away? Well, Whoop Dee Doo vs. We could probably pick up five, maybe seven in Texas, depending on how hardball they want to play. We can definitely pick up seats in Florida. We can pick up seats in a number of red states, and that starts defeating the structural advantage they've built in for themselves through fraud. And I'm sorry, what they've been doing with districting is a form of fraud. But padding the electoral rolls, or at least the census rolls with 20 million illegal aliens boosts their House seats and their electoral votes unconscionably. That has to be overturned. And the way you do that is with mass deportations with prosecutions of public officials who aid and abet criminal illegals. And that's coming. And of course, you actually treat politics as the hardball contact sport that it is and you district properly in the states we control.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Yeah. And I think to your larger point, excuse me, and to your larger point, Rod, the Democrats have shown the way here, as I understand that there are no Republican House members from New England the entire place. There are certainly Republicans there, maybe not a whole lot, but they're not represented at all. And California Republicans and some of those in other blue states are going to be less and less represented as well. So game on, I guess, is the question how much? But it does sound to me, as you say, it could make a profound difference, especially if the Republicans don't get their act together. And I'm praying that they will. And right quick, Rod, we have to take a short break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk trade with you and some of its manifestations under Donald Trump. Stay tuned.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Brave podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[iHeart Advertising Voice]

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers are into true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-IHEART. One more time, call 844-844, iheart and get podcasting working for you.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

We're back. And so is Rod Morton, one of our regulars here at Securing America, I'm pleased to say, a man who brings to the public party a wealth of experience going back to his time working on policy matters with Governor Mike Huckabee, now the wonderful U.S. ambassador to Israel. He was with Peter Thiel at the inception of PayPal. He has been an entrepreneur and businessman and now he is a pundit. You can follow his great [e-mail] and subscribe to the Rod Martin Report there. Rod, we want to talk trade tariffs in particular, not least because the U.S. supreme Court had a very important hearing on a case basically saying the President has exceeded his authority and is infringing upon that of the legislative branch. What did you make of the lines of of questioning? And what does your crystal ball tell you about how the court is going to rule in this case.

[Rod Martin]

Well, first, on a philosophical level, it's important to understand that the Democrats speak with fork and tongue as usual. They were perfectly happy for presidents to have basically unilateral authority to impose tariffs for the entire last century. And their presidents repeatedly impose tariffs wherever they thought it good and proper to do so. So they're just lying. And on the right, we have a lot of people who have completely bought the unalloyed, uncaviated, un nuanced version of the libertarian position on tariffs, that they are purely a tax on the consumer. Well, I just had this discussion about our effort to absorb abolish property taxes here in Florida. I don't have to buy any particular thing at any particular time. And we have a bunch of sales tax holidays in Florida. So if we hike sales tax to the moon in Florida, we've got 143 million tourists a year. That's almost double the number for California and New York combined. We're going to end up taxing a bunch of of non citizens to pay for our pretty roads and lovely colleges and so forth. And we're going to stop forcing widows who paid off their home 30 years ago to pay rent to the government. Well, tariffs are the same. I don't have to buy a Mercedes that was built in Germany. I can buy a Mercedes that was built in South Carolina and there's zero tariff on that. I don't have to buy buy a Nissan from Japan. I can buy one from Tennessee. And that's the thing from time immemorial as far back as you want to go. The courts have traditionally held that the tariff power is part of the commerce power, not the taxing power. And Brett Kavanaugh made a good point of that yesterday. That was helpful. The truth of the matter is foreign policy powers overlap between the legislative and the executive. The legislative branch delegated tariff making authority to the President starting with the Trade act of 1930, updated and expanded it with the Trade act of 1974. I mean, that's almost my entire lifetime on the second one, it's double my lifetime on the first. And there's no question that that has been said, seen as constitutional all of these many decades, low nearly a century. So why would it be unconstitutional now? And when you get into the argument in the particular act that Trump is using, it's very clear that Congress intended a blanket grant of authority over trade. So we have to recognize trade as being part of the President's foreign policy toolkit. And we should ask exactly what the Solicitor General asked. Why do the other. Why does the other side think that the president should have total authority to completely abolish all foreign trade whatsoever, but can't impose a 1% tariff? And, I mean, it's just absurd. It doesn't make sense.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Let me just ask you this point. You have trained as a lawyer, so. So I know this is something you have a special ability to penetrate, but my impression was watching a bit of this proceeding, that it seems it turns very much on this question of whether this is about raising revenues, whether this is a form of taxation rather than a trade power, which clearly resides with the executive branch. Am I right about that? And did the particularly, you know, Amy Comey Barrett's line of questioning suggest that there may be a majority going against the president on this and what would the implications of that be, Rodney?

[Rod Martin]

And yet she seemed quite open to the argument that a tariff is a license, that they're economically indistinguishable and the president clearly has power to impose licensing requirements, and that includes fees, which is the point that was being made. So, you know, it really, I think.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Not for the purposes of raising money, but that is the practical effect.

[Rod Martin]

Well, that is the practical effect. And I think what you end up with, ultimately, first of all, there's the political dimension. The three liberal justices are not going to vote with us, period. Then among the conservatives, you have to decide, is a tariff more a tax or is a tariff more a license? Is it more in the commerce power or is it more in the taxing power? And, of course, you'll recall John Roberts found that Obamacare was principally a tax to uphold it. If he were to find that something that has historically been seen to not be a tax is one to knock down Donald Trump's entire foreign policy, that would be the height of absurdity, not to mention hypocrisy.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

Well, and the other piece of this, of course, Rod, is as you know, the president has, not through taxation, but through licensing and fees and the like, raised an enormous amount of money. I mean, some estimates are a trillion dollars, perhaps, and that money would presumably have to be paid back. There's a lot of angst about how you would even go about doing that, certainly doing it in a way that wouldn't further compound our financial circumstances. What are your thoughts on that, sir? Will that factor into their thinking, do you think, in the court?

[Rod Martin]

Oh, yeah. Barrett and Alito pressed on that pretty hard. And of course, in the process of that, Alito brought up. Brought up the trade act of 1970. I'm sorry, of 1970. In a really important way. And you know, that has never been overruled. It's been on the books for 95 years, for heaven's sake. And it gives the president effectively unfettered authority to do anything he wants to do in the tariff space up to a limit of 50%. So, okay, can Trump work within that? Yeah, probably. And so he said, look, we probably have to look at all of these people provisions together if we're going to rule on this.

[Frank Gaffney (Host)]

That's almost certainly going to be the case. Let's hope the court will do so. Thank you, Rod Martin. We have to leave it at that for the moment. There's a lot more to talk about. Come back to us next week if you would. We'll be talking, I'm hoping to you, the rest of you next time. Until then, I hope you'll go forth and multiply. Oral health goes beyond just aesthetics. It's deeply connected to your general health and well being. That's why preventing oral health problems before they start is so important.

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[Rodney Williams]

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