SECURING AMERICA WITH FRANK GAFFNEY - OCTOBER 4TH, 2025

Summary

Securing America with Frank Gaffney – October 4, 2025

Podcast: Real America’s Voice | Host: Frank Gaffney
Main Guests: Josh Hammer (Newsweek), Rod Martin (Institute for the American Future)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Securing America, hosted by Frank Gaffney, examines crises at home and abroad through a security and American values lens. Key topics include the Trump-Netanyahu 20-point plan for ending hostilities in Gaza, the enduring threat of Hamas and its backers, the role of Qatar, Israeli domestic politics, potential Chinese infiltration in the US, the constitutional and strategic implications of federal force deployments in American cities, and advancements in defense technology like Iron Beam. Featuring in-depth discussions with legal commentator Josh Hammer and policy analyst Rod Martin, the show conveys skepticism toward high-level diplomatic agreements while emphasizing vigilance against both foreign and domestic threats.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump-Netanyahu Gaza Peace Plan: Feasibility, Risks, and Political Backdrop

Guests: Frank Gaffney & Josh Hammer
[03:33–24:37]

• The Skepticism toward the 20-point Deal

  • Josh Hammer dismisses the 20-point Trump-Netanyahu plan as impractical and out of touch with on-the-ground realities, especially concerning Hamas’s willingness to demilitarize and reform.
    • "My antenna go up every time I hear a 20 point plan... This strikes me... as the kind of thing that a bunch of think tank eggheads might be able to produce, but that which stands very little connection to on the ground empirical reality." — Josh Hammer [05:52]
  • Hammer doubts the plausibility of Hamas complying, likening it to believing in "the tooth fairy and unicorns," but notes Qatar’s shifting calculus after recent Israeli strikes could apply new pressure.
  • "Literally step one has to do with the de radicalization of Hamas and soon thereafter is the willingness of Hamas to lay down their arms... It's fun to talk about some things as maybe happening, but it's very difficult to foresee a world in which some of these basic steps might happen." — Josh Hammer [06:36]

• Possible Purpose Behind the Deal

  • Hammer questions the sincerity of the plan, suggesting its primary utility may be to grant legitimacy for Israel to use force if Hamas breaks the terms.
    • "Which, frankly, may actually be the point... if and when Hamas inevitably does not uphold the terms of this deal... Netanyahu and the Israelis will have the imprimatur of legitimacy from the Trump administration to really kind of go all in." — Josh Hammer [08:54]

• Hostage Crisis as Political and Strategic Dilemma

  • Hostages are central to Israeli domestic politics and criticism of Netanyahu, whose government faces immense internal pressure to secure their release.
    • "This is a country that really, really, really wants their hostages back... a lot of the criticisms air the grievance that he has not done enough to retrieve the hostages." — Josh Hammer [10:25]

• Balancing Priorities: Destroying Hamas vs. Retrieving Hostages

  • Hammer calls Israel’s dual goals a strategic error, arguing that eradicating Hamas should have outweighed retrieval of every hostage.
    • "It seems to me that one of these things is simply not on the same level as the other in terms of... strategic significance... But Bibi is clearly experiencing a tremendous amount of pressure back home to get the hostages back." — Josh Hammer [11:16]

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2. Role of Qatar, Regional Radicalization, and Israeli Politics

Guests: Frank Gaffney & Josh Hammer
[16:40–24:37]

• Qatar’s Influence & Its Unchanged Stance

  • Despite speculation about a post-strike policy change, Hammer finds scant evidence that Qatar is reducing support for Hamas or other jihadist groups.
    • "I see very little evidence of Qatar having a change of heart. I merely just open the possibility of that... Consider me very skeptical." — Josh Hammer [19:54]
  • He recounts his visit to kibbutzim affected by October 7, 2023, to underline the depth of trauma and popular support for Hamas among local Palestinian Arabs:
    • "When you look at the polling of the Palestinian Arab population... this notion that these radical Jihadi groups do not speak for the Arabs living there is a complete lie." — Josh Hammer [18:55]

• Israeli Coalition Tensions

  • Netanyahu faces "very, very adamant opposition" within his governing coalition, especially from parties to his right, such as the Religious Zionism Party.
    • "He's in a very difficult place. And we should not be afraid to just say that he's in a very, very difficult place there. It's really politics, Frank, as you know, is kind of, frankly, just a mess in general." — Josh Hammer [22:48]
  • The tension between prioritizing the hostages or military victory divides the nation.

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3. Domestic Issues: US Government Shutdown and Strategic Political Calculations

Guests: Frank Gaffney & Rod Martin
[30:00–41:33]

• Trump’s Leverage in Potential Government Shutdown

  • Rod Martin details how previous shutdowns always resulted in Republicans getting blamed, except for Trump’s 2018–19 standoff, in which Democrats took more political blame due to policy stances around Medicaid for illegal immigrants.
    • "Trump is the first one to actually win one of these... The polling was clear. People actually blamed the Democrats for it. And Trump is emboldened. He looks at it as, I can win this." — Rod Martin [31:53]
  • He postulates that declaring large numbers of federal employees “non-essential” could allow Trump to restructure the civil service for political and budgetary ends.
    • "He's probably going to remove just a staggering number of federal workers that he's going to deem non essential... then he's not going to hire them back." — Rod Martin [34:50]

• Deployment of Federal & National Guard Troops to Cities

  • Trump’s use of the National Guard is cast as constitutional, following historic precedent, aimed at restoring order in cities like Portland overrun by Antifa.
    • "It's forcing local police to actually do their job, which they haven't done in some of these cities... All of a sudden, this is a godsend. Portland has been the nerve center of their movement." — Rod Martin [39:06]

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4. National Security: Chinese Infiltration and Urban Security Threats

Guests: Frank Gaffney & Rod Martin
[46:22–53:54]

• Concerns about Chinese "Fifth Column" in US

  • Gaffney and Martin discuss the risks of unknown numbers of PLA operatives entering via the open border, and the wider PRC strategy of buying land near military bases.
    • "We don't know that there are 100,000 Chinese troops in America. And that's the problem. We don't know that there aren't." — Rod Martin [48:30]
  • The dangers of unchecked immigration as a security loophole are emphasized:
    • "You could have Chinese small spec ops in 50 states and we wouldn't know... they're buying up land next door to key military institutions... are you kidding me?" — Rod Martin [48:54]

• Flag-Flying Controversy and CCP Influence

  • Strong condemnation for American cities hosting the Chinese flag—a sign, Gaffney and Martin argue, of political naivete or subversion.
    • "The fact that anybody would raise the Communist Chinese flag over their city just boggles my mind." — Rod Martin [50:18]

• Drone Surveillance Over US Bases

  • Repeated drone overflights of sensitive US military installations are cited as evidence of growing vulnerability.
    • "If any one of those drones had... a thermobaric grenade on them, they would have created chaos on some of our most sensitive assets." — Frank Gaffney [50:44]

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5. Middle East & Defense Technology: Israel, Hamas, and “Iron Beam”

Guests: Frank Gaffney & Rod Martin
[58:12–65:23]

• Final Thoughts on Gaza Negotiations

  • Martin doubts any lasting peace is possible as long as Hamas is allowed to survive as an organized entity.
    • "You can't let Hamas survive... and expect to ever have peace." — Rod Martin [61:49]

• Iron Beam: A Game-Changer for Missile Defense

  • Rod Martin explains Israel’s new operational laser system, "Iron Beam", as a potentially revolutionary shift toward cheap, scalable missile and drone defense—a $2 cost per intercept as opposed to tens of thousands to millions for traditional defensive missiles.
    • "Iron beam is $2 a shot. You actually make defense orders of magnitude cheaper than offense and that's a world changer." — Rod Martin [64:19]
  • He envisions future iterations rendering nuclear missile threats obsolete and remaking global military strategy:
    • "You've got a real possibility in the relatively near term of effectively obsoleting nuclear weapons... Golden Dome, not 1.0 but 2.0, is gonna be heavily laser based." — Rod Martin [64:55]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Trump-Netanyahu Plan:
  "Not to put too fine a point on it, but you know, I remember too when I believed in the tooth fairy and I believed in unicorns..." — Josh Hammer [06:58]

• On Domestic Divisions in Israel:
  "Bibi Netanyahu is someone who has been around the block a few times in this arena. I think he knows that this plan is unworkable. That's probably why he was able to grin and bear it." — Josh Hammer [08:49]

• On the Nature of Hamas Support:
  "Polling over and over again... the October 7th assault... is overwhelmingly popular among the Arab communities there." — Josh Hammer [19:12]

• On Government Shutdown Tactics:
  "They are willing to shut down the government to fund Medicaid for illegal aliens. I mean, oh my gosh..." — Rod Martin [36:25]

• On Fed Troops in Cities:
  "These troops have no police powers per se. They can detain you, but then they have to wait for a police officer... What you're doing is you're putting a show of force on the streets." — Rod Martin [39:06]

• On Urban Infiltration & Drones:
  "It's not as though this is just a hypothetical problem. We've had drones overflying military bases as it is..." — Frank Gaffney [50:44]

• On Iron Beam and the Future of Warfare:
  "Iron beam is $2 a shot. You actually make defense orders of magnitude cheaper than offense and that's a world changer." — Rod Martin [64:19]

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment / Topic | |--------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 03:33–12:04 | Trump-Netanyahu plan analysis, Hamas’s role and Qatar | | 16:40–24:37 | October 7 pogrom, radicalization, Israeli politics | | 30:00–41:33 | US government shutdown politics, National Guard use | | 46:22–53:54 | CCP infiltration, drone threats, US base security | | 58:12–65:23 | Middle East update, Iron Beam tech, future of defense |

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Episode Summary & Value

Listeners gain skeptical but deeply informed perspectives on US, Israeli, and global security challenges. The conversation highlights the complexity of the Gaza deal, the strategic myopia of diplomatic optimism, the enduring influence of terror networks and their state sponsors, and the pivotal importance of domestic resilience in the US—both regarding civil bureaucratic structures and national security, including technological advancements like Iron Beam.

The episode maintains a serious, policy-focused tone punctuated by moments of biting, sometimes wry, commentary. It is rich in context and offers clear explanations for listeners less familiar with international security, high-level diplomacy, or the subtleties of American internal politics.

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Compiled for listeners seeking a comprehensive, candid digest of this pivotal episode of Securing America with Frank Gaffney (October 4, 2025).

Transcript

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[Josh Hammer]

Foreign.

[Frank Gaffney]

Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Gaffney. The program that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the glory of God and his kingdom. As we speak. We are on the road at the moment in Orlando, hence a little less formal setting. But we are going to give you a very high quality program today, starting with my friend Josh Hammer. Josh is an editor at Newsweek, the author of a very important book about the Jews and civilization. He is a go to resource for matters in particular involving the Middle east. And we're anxious to catch up with him in connection with the news of the day, which is that in the course of a meeting yesterday between President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a deal was struck that will bring ends to hostilities in Gaza and peace to the Middle east, we're told, or maybe not. But it all at the moment hangs on whether Hamas will agree to the various points, 20 of them, to be precise, in this deal, and thereby put in motion the rest of arrangements that are quite extensive, quite ambitious, some would say quite implausible as well. And I wanted to get Josh's take on all of it, and we are so grateful to him for doing so on the drop of a hat. Josh, thank you for joining us once again. Welcome back.

[Josh Hammer]

You bet. Thank you, Frank. I appreciate it.

[Frank Gaffney]

So 20 points. We won't have time to go through them all, but I'd like your sort of overview as to whether this is first of all a workable arrangement if everybody signs on. That would include, of course, Hamas, but also its backers, the Qataris and others who have thrown in on this thing. And we'll get next to how practicable it is. But do you think this is going to go through in the first instance, sir?

[Josh Hammer]

Frank My antenna go up every time that I hear a 20 point plan virtually in any context. This strikes me kind of just as a very prima facial level, like right off the bat as the kind of thing that a bunch of think tank eggheads might be able to produce, but that which stands very little connection to on the ground empirical reality. I mean, call me old school, but I'm something of a Burkean conservative. I'm something of a skeptic of the ability of human beings to devise game plans really over any prolonged extended horizon of time, perhaps doubly so when you're dealing here with a situation like Gaza where you have certain actors that are radical, seventh century, aspiring Sharia supremacist, genocidal jihadists. So, you know, we know from John Steinbeck that the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry. And it's very difficult for me to see how this thing really kind of gets off the get go. I mean, if I recall the 20 or 21, whatever it is, exact number of steps of the plan, literally step one has to do with the de radicalization of Hamas and soon thereafter is the willingness of Hamas to lay down their arms. I mean, you know, Frank, not to put too fine a point on it, but you know, I remember too when I believed in the tooth fairy and I believed in unicorns, right? I mean, there are, you know, it's fun to talk about some things as may be happening, but it's very difficult to foresee a world in which some of these basic steps might happen. Unless you did correctly bring up Qatar, is it possible that Qatar has had something of a change of their own calculation, at least an aftermath of Israel's strike on the Hamas operatives in Doha. Now that strike was actually tactically, unfortunately, they broadly missed their target. It's not entirely obvious what happened. Some people speculate that the Trump administration leaked to Qatar, they evacuated neither here nor there. But whatever the tactical success or lack thereof was of the Israeli strike on Doha, it did perhaps awaken Qatar that they are fair game, that their soil is fair game, and they really are the puppeteers, as you correctly say, of Hamas. So that's kind of the one interesting tidbit here is Qatar in a slightly different situation vis a vis their Hamas puppets, the than they were just a few weeks ago. If the answer to that question is yes, then perhaps my pessimism is misplaced and perhaps there actually might be some real pressure from Hamas's Arab revan. But for now, Frank, what I basically see is a plan that is Pretty much pie in the sky, unworkable. Which, frankly, may actually be the point that actually may be the entire purpose of this entire charade, actually, with President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu. Bibi Netanyahu is someone who has been around the block a few times in this arena. I think he knows that this plan is unworkable. That's probably why he was able to grin and bear it. And the silver lining is that if and when Hamas inevitably does not uphold the terms of this deal, I'm not even sure that they will accept the deal in the first place. But even if they do, if they accept the deal, Frank, they inevitably will violate it in a myriad ways within probably 24 to 48 hours after verbally espousing a purported acceptance, at which point Netanyahu and the Israelis will have the imprimatur of legitimacy from the Trump administration to really kind of go all in. And if that is really kind of the whole purpose of this elaborate song and dance, then. Then I say that is. That is a good ending there. But we shall see. A lot of question marks remain, that.

[Frank Gaffney]

Is for sure, for sure, starting with, you know, will Hamas even profess to be bound by these terms? I want to come back to Qatar in a moment. But, Josh, as you know, one of the things that has been an impetus behind all of this is a rising chorus in Israel that the hostages must be released, all of them. One of the provisions of this is that they will all be released, you know, up front, in the first 72 hours, as I recall. Is that, in fact, likely to happen, do you think? You know, there's been some talk that Hamas is now saying they don't actually know where all of the hostages are. There may be more dead than. Than they've let on. I mean, to the extent, and I'm asking this really not so much from the point of view of the particulars of how many are alive and how many are dead and where they are and who has them and all the rest of it. But talk, just if you would, about the priority that has been accorded to them, to Trump, really, if I can use that expression, the strategic interests of Israel in finishing the job.

[Josh Hammer]

Yeah, Frank, I was in Israel in June. We actually were there during the Iran war. We ended up evacuating a whole story that's neither here nor there. But it was my first time there in about a year and a half or so. I was there also in January 2024, just a few months after the pogrom. But when I was there, A few months ago in June, I was struck actually at just the complete ubiquity, the pervasiveness throughout the entire country of the hostage posters. This is a country that really, really, really wants their hostages back. And that is part of the equation here is a lot of folks in America, I think, don't quite realize just how divisive and controversial a figure in Israel, Bibi Netanyahu is. Just as Trump is a divisive figure here, the left hates him so much here, so too the left hates Netanyahu and Israel. And a lot of their criticisms, I think unjust criticisms, for what it's worth, but a lot of their criticisms essentially air the grievance that he has not done enough to retrieve the hostages. Now, from my perspective, Frank, I'll be very blunt with you. I think that Israel made a strategic error actually from the get go in announcing at the onset, right after the pogrom, that there were two goals in this war and they were of equal strategic and moral importance, which were one, the eradication of Hamas and two, the retrieval of all the hostages. I don't want to come across as overly callous. Obviously, I would do whatever I could if my loved one were there in those subterranean terror tunnels. But it seems to me that one of these things is simply not on the same level as the other in terms of the mid to long term strategy, strategic significance. So I, I question Israel's attempt to balance these two goals over the broader course of this conflict. But, but Bibi is clearly experiencing a tremendous amount of pressure back home to get the Hodges back. I have no doubt that that is part of the reason why he was able to grin and bear it on Monday at the White House over this, over the course of the rollout of this 21 point plan.

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, I, I guess the, the point, and I couldn't agree more with how you characterize this, Josh. The point is, as we've said ourselves in this country, when Americans are taken hostage, we're not going to negotiate for them. Sometimes we do behind the scenes, but we say that that is our purpose, not to reward people for seizing Americans, which can be done any day of the week all over the world. As you know, that's what worries me most about this, is that I fear that however this works out, that terms of the deal, that penchant, that, that proclivity, that understandable moral impulse is going to be operating again with still more Israelis taken hostage in due course. We have to take a break. We'll be right back with more with Josh Hammer Stay tuned.

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[Frank Gaffney]

Welcome back. Josh Hammer is in the house, I'm very pleased to say. He has written a powerful book about Jews and civilization and it is against the backdrop really of that reality. The Jewish people, particularly those in Israel, are in the front lines of the effort to save Western civilization, what is known as Judeo Christian civilization, from the ravages of, well, people like Hamas, people like the, the Sharia supremacists, as I call them, that are operating now worldwide, almost all of whom benefit from the largesse of Qatar. And Josh, you were talking earlier in the program about the possibility that the, the attack by Israel on Qatar has produced a change of heart. I wonder whether, aside from, you know, speculating about that, you see evidence of it in terms of cutting back their financing, their enabling of jihadism worldwide? And if not, are we looking at the prospect that there's going to be simply in due course, a lot more of these, as you call them, pogroms, maybe in the Judea and Samaria for starters.

[Josh Hammer]

Well, Frank, let me just briefly before answering your question, which is a good and important one, just, just talk about the actual pogrom itself of October 7, 2023. So as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, I was there just a few months after the fact. I was there in January 2024 when I say I was there. I was not just in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem. I went down to the, to the kibbutzim, the communities that were slaughtered. I was there in Kafar Aza, which virtually everyone was slain. I saw the blood stained on the walls, the children's toys just strewn throughout the streets. The last WhatsApp message of this couple that was murdered was on the wall there. The whole thing was just unspeakable, just absolutely, positively horrific. We were also there at Raim, at the Nova Music Festival where hundreds of people were, were gunned down. And this was a legitimate throwback to an old school European, Eastern European style pogrom. I mean that really is the word that comes to mind. And look, there have been any number of attacks in Judea and Samaria, what the international community refers to as a so called West Bank. In fact, there was actually a profound increase just a couple years ago in attacks in Judea and Samaria. It leveled off a little bit if I'm not mistaken, over the past year, but it's still higher than historically has been there. And when you look at the polling of the Palestinian Arab population in both Jilen Samaria and Gaza, Frank, this notion that these radical Jihadi groups do not speak for the Arabs living there is a complete lie. It is a bare faced, just bare knuckle lie. We see polling over and over again that hamas, that the October 7th assault, the pogrom itself is overwhelmingly popular among the Arab communities there. There was a poll that came out just a couple weeks after the pogrom in late October 2023 from one of the few reputable or semi reputable pollsters in Judea and Samaria and Gaza. And they polled the Arabs there and said if you could elect one person to be your ruler in a quote unquote Palestinian state there, who would it be? And the number one person who they said was Marwan Barghouti. He got plurality of the vote at 34% of memory serves. Marwan Barghouti is serving multiple life sentences in Israeli prison for being one of the most infamous terrorists in terms of murdering civilians. This is a truly, truly radicalized population there. Now I say all that because you're correct to know that the only chance I think of this ever working, this 21 point peace plan, more generally, peace in the region. Holding aside my own thoughts on the two state solution or lack thereof, yes, part of the equation would be Qatar really cracking down on their radical Arabs on the ground. And I don't necessarily see any firm evidence that Qatar has had a change of heart. Consider me very skeptical that they have done so. This is a country that has been a duplicitous actor on the world stage for a very long time. And for what it's worth, Frank, I'll be very honest with you. I was not pleased with what I saw on that front, just on Monday at the White House, the reporting was that Netanyahu called the Emir of Qatar, with President Trump in the room, to apologize for the strike on Doha. Seemingly that was due to pressure from the Trump administration. It's not great. I think it'll be a very polite way of saying it. I'm not happy about that. I think the optics of that are really, really quite bad. Qatar is a country that should have much more pressure applied on it as opposed to trying to kind of bring it in to the panoply of first world countries there. So I see very little evidence of Qatar having a change of heart. I merely just open the possibility of that. To kind of paraphrase the old Don Rumsfeld line, there are known unknowns. And I mean, here am I, here I am sitting in the United States. I mean, I can't necessarily read the minds of everyone sitting in Doha. But based on what I see, Frank, I'm skeptical that they've had that change of heart, which does not necessarily augur well for either Gaza or frankly, for the region more broadly.

[Frank Gaffney]

Big time. The world more generally, I would argue. Just a quick question, Josh, and I think you, you know, are sufficiently conversant with the political context in, in which this is taking place. In Israel. We've talked about the hostages and the yearning for their freedom. What about the coalition government that Bibi has been managing despite some very, very adamant opposition to anything remotely like this kind of deal from some in his coalition? Do you anticipate he is going to have problems with them?

[Josh Hammer]

I think he might. There was definitely a very critical quote that was put out by Beslav Smotrich, who's the finance minister there. He is of the Religious Zionism Party, one of the parties in the coalition that we would say is further right than the Likud, Netanyahu's own party. So this is kind of the delicate balancing act that Netanyahu is trying to do. I don't envy him, frankly. You know, I'm skeptical of this deal and I've had my criticisms of Netanyahu over the years. Certainly, I think that he's overall a historical leader, but I have my criticisms. But he's in a very difficult place. And we should not be afraid to just say that he's in a very, very difficult place there. It's really politics, Frank, as you know, is kind of, frankly, just a mess in general. But the country is just so torn over this conflict over what's prioritized between the hostages versus Hamas Israelis. I Think there's a bit of a misconception. You know, a lot of the anti Semites say, oh, the Israelis are just such warmongers, they love war. No they're not. I mean this is a peace seeking people just as everyone else throughout the world is a peace seeking people. And they've had almost a thousand young men and women, mostly men tragically, who have died over the course of this war. That's a lot of people, that's a lot of soldiers. This is already the longest war in Israeli history. And I think most Israelis, like most Americans, like most Westerners, want to see this war come to a conclusion. So Bibi's trying to balance that with the anti Hamas hawkishness of the Smoaches and Itamar Ben Gvirs of the world is a very, very difficult balancing act to do. Again, I do not envy his position cards on the table. From my vantage point there as an American, I wish that Hamas will be eradicated because they are a US recognized foreign terrorist organization. And a Gaza that is free of Hamas is demonstrably better for the American national interest. But the Israeli perspective is perhaps a little, a little more nuanced there and that's really what Netanyahu is trying to thread this needle right now.

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, well, I think that the overall policy approach that he has adopted, and I think you agree with this, is, you know, you must extirpate these characters from that society. I don't know if anybody's really thinking beyond the platitude in that first point of de radicalization of how you do that in a place like Gaza, especially with the, the appetites that have now been reinforced, I'm afraid, by the prospect that there is not going to be the decisive defeat, military defeat that was in prospect at least until now, and, and, and may yet be if, as you say, the deal does not come to pass. But I did want to just say, Josh, your insights into how this is, you know, playing out and, and what it might mean for Bibi internally is hugely important. And it would be ironic indeed if what some have described as kind of a Kamala Harris plan also results in the toppling of the Israeli government, which was also part of of course, the Harris Biden Obama agenda for many years. We have to leave it at that. I'm so grateful to you for your time and for your insights on all of these things, Josh Hammer, and for the larger body of work that you are presenting to us, particularly on Jews and civilization. God bless you, my friend. Come back to us as this matures. Give us updates if you want.

[Josh Hammer]

Thank you very much.

[Frank Gaffney]

We'll be right back, folks. Stay tuned.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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Listening to the newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the newsagents to start listening.

[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

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[Emily Maitlis]

Right now, America's Christian Credit Union is offering the top 12 month certificate rate in the nation. This limited time offer is just for new accu members earn 4.75% APY on deposits up to 1 million and it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called a Term Share Certificate, similar to a CD but with a mission and supports what matters Christian schools, churches, adoptions and more. Visit AmericasChristianCu.com to get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA.

[Rodney Williams]

This is the story of the one as head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for.

[Frank Gaffney]

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[Emily Maitlis]

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[Rodney Williams]

7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quitgranger.com or just stop by Grainger.

[Josh Hammer]

For the ones who get it done.

[Frank Gaffney]

We'Re back and so is Rod Martin, I'm very pleased to say, the Chairman of the Board of the Institute for the American Future, of which I'm proud to serve as president. He is also the author of an extraordinarily formidable well series of reports and also blogs. It's to be [e-mail] it's called the rod Martin Report. You can also find his myriad interviews and commentaries there, and I strongly commend to you that as a resource. Rod has a background in entrepreneurial activity, notably a member of the founding PayPal mafia, which is quite an extraordinary group. Rod, it is great to have you back, especially given some things that are very much in a dynamic mode at the moment and I'm anxious to get the benefit of your free range thinking on what is happening. It's good to have you with us, sir, as always, good to be here. Let me start by asking you about this government shutdown which as we speak is impending. There does seem to be a Mexican standoff, if you will will taking place between President Trump, on the one hand, the Republicans who insist on a clean continuing resolution as they call it. The Democrats want to make some changes to terms of the big beautiful bill. You have written about this at your [e-mail] to the effect that the Democrats are right where Donald Trump wants him in a box. Let us know why and what this all portends for the American people.

[Rod Martin]

I honestly can't fathom why they're being this stupid. I understand the thought process, but I still just marvel at it and the thought process. Pretty straightforward. We've had government shutdowns, you know, for decades, off and on, and it didn't matter who was in Congress versus who was in the White House. The Republicans always get blamed by the media 100%. So, you know, when Newt Gingrich's crew came in after the 94 election, they thought they could shut down the government and the president would get blamed because that had always been what happened. This had happened under Reagan several times, and Reagan always got blamed, and they foolishly thought this was because he was president. The executive branch would get blamed for this. Guess what? The Republicans got blamed for it, no matter which end of Pennsylvania Avenue they were on. So Trump is the first one to actually win one of these. And what do I mean by that? Well, we had a shutdown, actually the longest shutdown ever, around Christmas of 2018 into January of 2019. And of course, the media did everything it could to spin it as this huge debacle for Donald Trump, but it wasn't. The polling was clear. People actually blamed the Democrats for it. And Trump is emboldened. He looks at it as, I can win this. And the Democrats didn't learn the lesson because they watch msnbc. So you would think Chuck Schumer would actually read a poll, but that's not what's happening. So where we are is the Democrats have been given a clean cr. They can just fund the government for another month or two. Everything's fine. We passed the appropriations bills. We're not quite to regular order, but we're approximating it, so you know, we're in the right direction. Go, Speaker Johnson. And they're turning it down because they will tell you simultaneously, in schizophrenic leftist fashion, that Medicaid for illegal aliens is illegal. And that never happens. And also, we're going to shut down the government to force Donald Trump to fund it. Are you kidding? It's impossible to win that. There is no way. So, yes, Trump is set up on the politics, but he's also set up on the practical consequences, because I promise you, Russ Vogt, our friend who is head of the Office of Management and Budget and by the way, a good Southern Baptist guy, just love him. And he is Elon Musk's successor, leading doge. He's had a plan for how to use a shutdown like this for five years. He knows exactly what he's doing. And so one of the things, but probably far from the only, is the president gets to deem who is and is not essential. Essential workers stay. He's probably going to remove just a staggering number of federal workers that he's going to deem non essential in a way that no prior president has been willing to try, and then he's not going to hire them back. So even if we fill those positions, it'll be the Trump administration filling those positions, and we probably won't refill a lot of those positions. So Schumer and Jeffries are just walking the plank here, and it's just unfathomable.

[Frank Gaffney]

So, Rod, let me just make sure I'm clear about this. You're saying that if the president lays off large numbers of federal employees on the grounds that they are, well, non essential, that the gnashing of teeth and the wailing that will take place in the federal bureaucracy, of course, and in the political constituencies in which those people reside, notably in Northern Virginia, you're going to find that this is net, net going to be positive for Donald Trump, negative for the Democrats, and not harm the American people who benefit from various services of the federal government, not just, you know, going to national parks and the like.

[Rod Martin]

Well, Trump is pretty savvy about this stuff. And of course, Obama was also. Obama came in and shut down all the national parks and national monuments when he had a shutdown because, you know, he wanted to inconvenience the tourists and spread discontent and they'd go home and be mad at the Republicans. He knew what he was doing. Trump is looking deeper than that. But he really doesn't have to look far for the politics. The politics is simple. They are willing to shut down the government to fund Medicaid for illegal aliens. I mean, oh my gosh, why not just also give money to Kilmar and maybe the killer of Irina Zarudska? Let's just, you know, fund the burning of a city or two. It's absurd and it can't sell and the public is against him on that. There will be fallout. It'll be day to day on some of the specific aspects of the shutdown. But the headline problem just totally works against them and they are hostages to their left wing base if they will allow themselves to be put in this position.

[Frank Gaffney]

Well, this will be fascinating to watch play out. I have the feeling that, you know, the gnashing of teeth piece of this, which is going to be dominating the news, will have some, you know, ameliorating effect as far as the Democrats are concerned. But overall, it does sound to me as though it's a loser. Speaking of burning cities, and I did want to turn to that if I can, with you quickly, Rod. The president is now set, it appears on putting US Military personnel, National Guard, specifically in Portland, Oregon, in addition to Memphis, Tennessee. And obviously I'm in Washington, D.C. until recently. There's talk about Chicago and other places. This is being predicated in part at least on the fact that Antifa, which he has designated a domestic terrorist organization, is, well, torching the places or at least besieging the things like ice centers and the like. Talk a little bit about, first of all, the constitutionality of what he's doing. It's being decried as illegal by mayors in these places, Democratic places, needless to say, and more to the point, the practical effect it's likely to have. Sir?

[Rod Martin]

Well, he certainly didn't decry it. Well, maybe the old Democrat segregation of decried it, but you know, the people who are decrying it now certainly weren't decrying it when Dwight Eisenhower sent the 101st Airborne and federalized the Arkansas National Guard to protect nine black students trying to enter Central High in 1957. Those troops occupied Little Rock for 18 months. And it was completely legal. And it was legal when Bush did it, and it was legal when Reagan did it, and it was legal when Clinton did it, and it was legal when Obama did it. And all these people are just lying. So the legalities are pretty clear. These troops have no police powers per se. They can detain you, but then they have to wait for a police officer to come and actually determine whether there's probable cause for an arrest. Only the police officer can arrest you. So what you're doing is you're putting a show of force on the streets. Obviously, if there were some kind of hideous crime in process, the troops could do something about that. But they don't have police power. So this is just augmenting manpower and it's forcing local police to actually do their job, which they haven't done in some of these cities. So we've seen this work actually incredibly effectively in D.C. we've seen it work very effectively in Memphis. Now we're going to Portland, which has been held hostage by Antifa for about five years now, and it's got to end. And you'll notice Trump is not counting on the Portland police here. He sent in a ton of federal agents and they are arresting Antifa right and left. All of a sudden, this is a godsend. Portland has been the nerve center of their movement for some time. If you actually lock some of these people up and put them on trial and actually convict them of the things they're guilty of, which include Antifa tried to burn down the mayor of Portland's apartment complex with him and a couple hundred other people in it. I mean, these are terrorists. These are horrible people. And you can understand why the Portland government, which was already sympathetic to them, doesn't want to buck them.

[Frank Gaffney]

Well, they don't want to buck them, I guess, because they're afraid of them. But on the other hand, they're getting torched, too. This is crazy, Rod. We have to take a short break. We'll be right back with much more with the great Rod Martin. Please stay tuned.

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The US Electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up. And the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready. Powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] Take a deep dive into.

[Emily Maitlis]

The stories making the news headlines across the world.

[Frank Gaffney]

The News Agents.

[John Sopel]

We're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis. And me, John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast, the News Agents Dropping daily, covering everything you need to know about politics and current affairs.

[Emily Maitlis]

And the newsagents USA listening to the.

[John Sopel]

News agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the newsagents to start listening.

[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the wealth break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Emily Maitlis]

In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, it's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values. That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. Right now, new members can lock in the top 12 month certificate rate in the nation. 4.75% apart on deposits up to 1 million. And it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called the term share certificate and it's a safe, secure way to grow your savings. But here's what makes it truly special. Your money doesn't just sit in a vault. It works to help build communities and support your values, all while growing your finances. This is a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union. This is more than banking, it's stewardship. It's real impact. And it's only available for a limited time. So don't wait. Lock in your rate before it drops. Visit americaschristiancu.com and get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the ncua.

[Leon Nefak]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Josh Hammer]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Nefak]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Rod Martin]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Leon Nefak]

Bad faith, political warfare, and frankly, bullshit.

[Rod Martin]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Leon Nefak]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

[Frank Gaffney]

Benghazi is a Rosetta Stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

[Leon Nefak]

I'm Leon Naifak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Josh Hammer]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, that's right, lock her up.

[Leon Nefak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Frank Gaffney]

We're back. And so is Rod Martin. And I wanted to introduce our next topic by giving you a little context on two things that are happening in the course of the day. Today, the day that Secretary of War Pete Hegseth chose to gather hundreds of generals and admirals. In Quantico, Virginia, the flag of Communist China will fly over our nation's birthplace in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, the whole country may one day be flying a China's flag rather than our own if American leaders don't recognize that the Chinese Communist Party is determined to destroy the usa. And with ongoing funding from Wall street, it has been inexorably putting into place the capabilities needed to accomplish that goal. President Trump says they'll discuss at Quantico how well the military is doing. But there must also be a frank discussion of the need for comprehensive and innovative efforts to prepare for a possibly imminent Chinese onslaught, likely starting with Fifth Column operations inside America, thanks to Joe Biden allowing in tens of thousands of People's Liberation army soldiers. Well, Rod, I want to get your thoughts on two things. One is, as a member of our committee on the Present Danger, China, of course, you have been very, very actively engaged in the debate about the Chinese threat and the extent to which it has now metastasized to the point where we actually do have, by some estimates, 100,000 Chinese soldiers inside this country on the one hand. And on the other, you've got, speaking of Democratic mayors, that of Philadelphia running up the Chinese colors, I think, over city hall today. There's something dreadfully wrong with this picture. I'd like to get your thoughts on it. Any insights you might have about the importance of talking about the Chinese threat as a paramount agenda item in the meeting today in Quantico.

[Rod Martin]

Well, we don't know that there are 100,000 Chinese troops in America. And that's the problem. We don't know that there aren't. And Joe Biden opened the border. We have roughly 10 million people illegally came across in four years. No vetting, no idea who these people are in the middle of COVID Nobody's screened for Covid. You have to wear a mask everywhere. You have to get a vax, you know, all this horrible stuff. You have to be locked down. But these people can just come and do anything they want. And that tells you the seriousness of the Biden administration about COVID It had very little to do with the disease. And that's our problem. We don't know who came in. We could have half of Hamas here and we wouldn't know. We could have Chinese small spec ops in 50 states and we wouldn't know. And we know that China has been buying up land near military bases all over the country, which is horrifying because we just saw what you can do with that. You know, maybe Maybe your viewers all get it. Most people in America haven't thought this through, but we just watched Ukraine do something very similar to that. They smuggled drones into key parts of Russia and attacked Russian bases in places that they absolutely don't have any normal range to attack. So the Chinese are buying up land next door to key military institutions in the United States. Are you kidding me? And thankfully, we have states like Florida that are passing laws to eliminate that. And that's all good, but there's a real problem here. It's going to take a while to clean it up. And the fact that anybody would raise the Communist Chinese flag over their city just boggles my mind. This is a regime that has murdered 65 million people. This is a regime that carried out the worst purges of the entire 20th century, which is saying a lot in an era of Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. And we're acting like these people are our buddies. It's insane.

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, Rod. And back on the drone point, it's not as though this is just a hypothetical problem. We've had drones overflying military bases as it is, in fact, in some of the most sensitive real estate in the country in the area of Newport News and surrounding parts of Eastern Virginia, I believe it was 17 days during the Biden administration in which unidentified drones were operating every night, flying over airfields and naval facilities and the like with impunity. So if any one of those drones that had, I don't know, thermal degree grenade on them, they would have created chaos on some of our most sensitive assets. So the fact that this is taking place. And by the way, you're absolutely right, we don't know exactly how many Chinese soldiers are here. We do know that the U.S. customs and Border Patrol processed, I believe it was at least 25,000, mostly men of military age, coming in unaccompanied, wearing similar backpacks and the like, moving, in some cases in units of about 15 people. A tell for anybody with a lick of sense that those are soldiers. And that 24,000, as you said, is just a fraction of the total number that came in. And that doesn't even take into account the got away. So my point is this, Rod, that the United States military, I have the feeling, is not taking seriously this internal threat. And if, God forbid, these guys are ordered to light this country up, as our friend Gordon Chang talked about on this program yesterday, you know, you may well not be able to do a darn thing about projecting power into the western Pacific or anyplace else. We're going to have our hands full here at home. Again. Should this be a very, very high priority for our military planners, do you think?

[Rod Martin]

It absolutely should. It should be just in general. I mean, after four years of keeping the border almost completely open, and it's not like it was closed before that. Trump did a pretty good job in the first term, but the Democrats did everything they could to obstruct him. And we had eight years of Obama where, yeah, he actually deported a decent number of people, but he let far more in. And, you know, he's doing everything he can to find loopholes to let them stay. So this is a very real security threat. We don't know who's here. We know they're illegal. We have legal tools to remove them. The Supreme Court has been pretty good about backing Donald Trump on using those tools. And we just got to get it done. And you know, Trump is, Trump is also looking. I don't know what. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Frank Gaffney]

Hold the thought. We got to take just a short break. When we come back, I want to visit just a bit further on that and we'll pivot to the Middle East. Stay tuned, folks, for more with Rod Martin.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

The US Electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use. Our aging infrastructure can't keep up. And the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready. Powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] Take a deep dive into.

[Emily Maitlis]

The stories making the news headlines across the world.

[Frank Gaffney]

The News Agents.

[John Sopel]

We're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why from me, Emily Maitlis. And me, John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast, the News Agents Dropping daily, covering everything you need to know about podcast politics and current affairs and the newsagents USA. Listening to the newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free Iheart app and search the newsagents to start listening.

[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealth break.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.

[Travis Holloway]

And that's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.

[Rodney Williams]

We're here to talk about the journey. You'll hear from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.

[Travis Holloway]

And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.

[Rodney Williams]

So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Emily Maitlis]

Right now, America's Christian Credit Union is offering the top 12 month certificate rate in the nation. This limited time offer is just for new Accu members earn 4.75% APY on deposits up to 1 million and it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called a term share certificate, similar to a cd, but with a mission and supports what matters Christian schools, churches, adoptions and more. Visit americaschristiancu.com to get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the ncua.

[Leon Nefak]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Josh Hammer]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Nefak]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Rod Martin]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Leon Nefak]

Bad faith, political warfare, and frankly, bullshit.

[Rod Martin]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Leon Nefak]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

[Frank Gaffney]

Benghazi is a Rosetta Stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

[Leon Nefak]

I'm Leon Nefak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Josh Hammer]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Frank Gaffney]

Yeah, that's right. Lock her up.

[Leon Nefak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Frank Gaffney]

We're back. And so is Rod Martin. I'm pleased to have him with us always, but I'm particularly pleased when we have as much to cover as we do today. Rod, you are being, as usual, very, very, I think, well, I call it free range in your thinking about a lot of things. And in particular, I wanted to get your update on the Middle East. The president has, as we've been talking about, brokered a deal at least with Israel and with a lot of Arab nations as we speak. Hamas has not yet weighed in and there's some indication that they're not happy about the terms of this deal. Give us your flavor of whether this is going to bring, as the president seems to hope, peace to the Middle east, to say nothing of Gaza itself.

[Rod Martin]

I think it's important to look at what Donald Trump does and not so much what he says. No, I don't imagine Hamas is going to like this deal. They may get pressured into it. It is not impossible that that could happen. But you heard what Trump said it was. And if you don't take the deal, Israel's going to finish the job. Okay, that's the plan. That's the actual plan. And that's what you got. Right before the Iran bombing, before the 12 Day War. TRUMP is out there saying, I gave him a 60 day deadline. Today is day 61. How do you like it? And here come the Israelis and blow them up for 12 days and then we finish it with Fordo. And now we're blowing up TDA drug boats off of Venezuela. We've actually got the Iwo Jima off the coast there. Your viewers understand what that is. That's an amphibious assault ship. That's a Marine Expeditionary force sitting right there and a bunch of other assets. So I don't know what Pete Hegseth is talking about to our generals and admirals today, but I feel pretty certain that top of the list are the real danger we're facing from China, which includes internal and certainly includes domestic terrorism, a lot of which is financed and possibly directly from foreign enemies, Venezuela, Gaza and Ukraine. And you know, it's the same thing in Ukraine. He's been saying, okay, Vladimir, we can do this the nice way where we invest in Russia and we do things, things to make everybody money together peacefully. Or I'm going to give Ukraine a ton of offensive weaponry and I'm going to shut off your cash. Well, the cash is getting shut off. The Ukrainians have done a fantastic job of blowing up about 17% of Russia's oil production capacity. The Chinese and the Indians are just nuking Russia. They're kind of raping them. Honestly. They're paying about half of market price for that oil. And they're just, you know, Putin has to take it. He doesn't have anywhere else to go to market. And, you know, they are not friends. Anybody who thinks there's an alliance there needs to pay attention to how China's treating them. China is acting as a neo colonizer. So, you know, in all these things, we have real threats that are about to ramp up potentially simultaneously. And that's probably why all these guys are at Quantico. But coming back to the Middle East, I think probably Israel finishes the job. And ultimately you can't let Hamas survive. I mean, there will always be people in sympathy with Hamas, just as there are people who are in sympathy with Adolf Hitler. But you can't let that as an organized political thing force continue to exist and expect to ever have peace.

[Frank Gaffney]

Amen. Well, we will be watching all of this very closely, as will you, Rod. We look forward to a further visit with you. But before we let you go, I did want to ask you about one thing. I'm prayerful that Israel will finish the job, but I also am very prayerful that something it calls Iron Beam will be very effective against, well, drones, among other things. Tell us a little bit about it. You've written on [e-mail] yes, we have.

[Rod Martin]

A deep dive on the implications of Iron Beam up [e-mail] I encourage everybody to take a minute to read it. This is extraordinary. I mean, we're actually leaping into the Star Trek age. And what's extraordinary about it is it's not experimental. The Israelis declared it operational here about a week ago. And what it does, let's just bottom line it, everybody knows what a laser does. You know, and I will just say up front, you're going to have to add a lot of power to it to be able to make it an offensive weapon or even an effective anti ballistic missile device. But here's what it does. If you have a Tamir missile, which is the backbone of Iron Dome, you're spending about 70,000 a shot. If you have an arrow three or patriot pack three and you're shooting down bigger incoming, that's about 4 million a shot. If you shoot off those lovely anti ballistic missiles we have sitting in Alaska and California, that's about $70 million a shot. Iron beam is $2 a shot. You actually make defense orders of magnitude cheaper than offense and that's a world changer. So eventually, when you add small modular reactors to this, when you do some additional things to soup it up, you're going to replace most of our offensive weaponry too. But you've got a real possibility in the relatively near term term of effectively obsoleting nuclear weapons. Because, okay, maybe you can put one on a freighter and blow it up in Charleston Harbor. I saw a TV show like that years ago. But you can't actually hit the targets you need to hit. You can't sail a freighter to a missile field in Wyoming. And if you're depending on suitcase nukes, that's not going to be a strategy. And you're going to have to think twice about launch. You're just gonna get annihilated if America has a reasonably good chance of shooting down most of what you hit us with. And that's the real implication. Golden Dome, not 1.0, but 2.0, is gonna be heavily laser based. And by the time you get to 3.0, it's probably gonna be laser dominant on the ground, in the air, on ships and in orbit. And it's just going to completely change geopolitics.

[Frank Gaffney]

It will be fascinating to see this develop, Rod, not least because of, you know, questions involving countermeasures. You know, what do the other guys do to try to defeat those lasers shielding and the like. But it's measure countermeasure as ever in warfare. But this does sound like an extraordinary breakthrough for the Israelis and praise the Lord. Hopefully it will be very helpful defending the Jewish state and maybe us too, Rod. We have to leave it at that. Thanks for joining us. Come back to us again next time, folks, if you will. Until they go forth and multiply. Foreign.

[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams.

[Travis Holloway]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance.

[Rodney Williams]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Frank Gaffney]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Travis Holloway]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

[Josh Hammer]

What happens when it doesn't go right?

[Rod Martin]

How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.

[Travis Holloway]

Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Emily Maitlis]

Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.

[Frank Gaffney]

The news agents.

[John Sopel]

We're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me, John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast, the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.

[Emily Maitlis]

Affairs and the newsagents USA listening to.

[John Sopel]

The newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the newsagents to start listening.

[Emily Maitlis]

In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, it's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values. That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union.

[Rod Martin]

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[Emily Maitlis]

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[Leon Nefak]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Josh Hammer]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Nefak]

From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Josh Hammer]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Leon Nefak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Emily Maitlis]

I'm Ben Ferguson.

[Josh Hammer]

And I'm Ted Cruz. Three times a week we do our podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Emily Maitlis]

Nationwide, we have millions of listeners.

[Josh Hammer]

Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we break down the news and bring you behind the scenes inside the White House, inside the Senate, inside the United States Supreme Court.

[Emily Maitlis]

And we cover the stories that you're.

[Josh Hammer]

Not getting anywhere else. We arm you with the facts to be able to know and advocate for the truth with your friends and family.

[Emily Maitlis]

So download Verdict with Ted Cruz now. Wherever you get your podcasts, this is.

[Rodney Williams]

An I heart podcast.