Real America’s Voice – Professor Penn Episode 256: "Talking to Cha Vang, A Hmong Leader – The Secret War" (Nov 20, 2025)

Main Theme

This episode explores the untold history, sacrifices, and contemporary challenges of the Hmong community in America—particularly in Minnesota—through a candid, in-depth conversation between host David Penn (“Professor Penn”) and Cha Vang, son of legendary Hmong General Vang Pao. Together, they trace the Hmong people’s journey from China and Southeast Asia to the U.S., the “Secret War” in Laos, the community’s struggles with integration and identity, and the political realities of being an “emerging constituency” in American civic life. The dialogue is rooted in shared stories of loss, survival, betrayal, culture, and the search for belonging in the American political landscape.

Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Setting the Context: Hmong in America & Political Engagement

• David Penn explains his mission to inspire listeners to civic engagement, especially holding politicians accountable and encouraging participation from “emerging constituencies”—communities new to American culture and politics, like the Hmong (04:15–09:30).
• Cha Vang introduces himself and notes the Hmong community in Minnesota is around 100,000 strong, and nearly 400,000 in the U.S., mainly in California, Wisconsin, and Minnesota (10:34).
• Notable moment: The hosts discover that younger listeners—and even young team members—know little of the Hmong’s presence or story (10:42).

“How can you miss 100,000 people?” —David Penn (10:37)

2. Hmong History: From China to Southeast Asia

• Cha Vang traces the Hmong’s ancient roots in southern China, recounting the betrayal and murder of the Hmong king, their forced migration, and how persecution kept their language and culture underground—often encoded in tapestry (11:56–16:17).
• The Hmong are likened to the “Jewish people of Southeast Asia”—a people without a land, forced to survive in mountainous regions after being displaced from fertile lowlands (16:41–17:44).

“They wanted to keep us divided forever… couldn’t have our own alphabet, our own language. The Hmong women… started doing storytelling in their tapestry, in the clothing.”—Cha Vang (15:22)

3. 20th Century Turmoil: World War II, French Colonialism, and the Secret War

• The Hmong fought the Japanese during WWII—aligned with French and U.S. aims, not always directly but shared objectives (18:09–20:25).
• Cha Vang recounts General Vang Pao’s rise: a local errand boy noticed by the French, later leading Hmong battalions allied with the French (23:51).
• The aftermath of the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu is described as a pivotal betrayal—General Vang Pao’s men were denied resources that could have changed the outcome, revealing how “big powers” often sacrifice locals for geopolitical ends (25:35–27:35).

4. The Secret War in Laos: Alliances, Betrayal, and Aftermath

• The Hmong as CIA-backed guerrillas: Following the French withdrawal, the Americans (CIA) supported the Hmong “Special Guerrilla Units” in Laos to fight Communists (29:21–29:36).
• The war in Laos (“the Secret War”) saw the Hmong lose around 10% of their population (35,000 people). Despite fierce resistance, U.S. policy shifted due to larger geopolitical deals—most notably Nixon’s rapprochement with China and Kissinger’s secret deals (30:17–39:02).

“To be an enemy of the United States can be dangerous. But to be a friend… can be deadly.” —(Bill Colby quote, recalled by Cha Vang, 40:40–41:11)

5. Fallout: Refugee Experience, Loss, and Starting Over

• As the communists won in Laos, Hmong allies were left behind, many killed; Cha Vang movingly shares his father’s pain at leaving home for the last time (67:08–67:39).

“He was on the airstrip at Long Chieng, the secret CIA base. That’s the last time he saw his country... Loved his country. He’s buried in Southern California. America’s home for us now.” —Cha Vang (67:28–67:39)

• The Hmong arriving in the U.S. faced immense culture shock, language gaps, and judgment (76:06–78:07), but achieved remarkable upward mobility in two generations.

6. Community, Clan Structure, and Shifting Social Support

• The Hmong clan system provided mutual aid and accountability—solving problems (including homelessness) internally. American legal, welfare, and regulatory systems have disrupted that traditional safety net (63:44–65:01).
• As American systems took over, the younger Hmong generation’s connection to clan and elders has frayed, leading to concerns about growing homelessness and loss of traditional support (63:53, 87:45–88:21).

7. Political Identity and the Challenge of Integration

• Why Hmong lean left: Direct services from government/nonprofits, early re-settlement in urban democratic bastions, and lack of Republican outreach have tilted political identification leftward—even when cultural values (family, faith, self-reliance, patriotism) align more with conservatism (56:24–80:46).
• Barrier to Republican engagement: Superficial outreach and lack of sustained relationships; the need for respectful engagement with elders and veterans, not just asking for votes (54:51–57:48).

“Don’t use people, particularly people that were used by our government as a pawn… If you respect our elders, our history, that’s the bond that strengthens over time. And then show up." —Cha Vang (57:17)

8. The Meaning of Freedom and the Danger of Dependency

• Vivid warning against passivity and long-term government dependence; stories from peers reinforce the risk of becoming trapped in "the system" (91:15–94:13).
  • “That’s the danger — when you get comfortable in a system like that.” (91:29)
• Observations on how government programs, despite their aid, can erode collective and family responsibility and increase dependence—mirroring issues for all Americans, not just immigrants (81:49–87:45).
• Cha Vang stresses the need for courage and self-reliance, echoing his father’s lessons: “For my father, there was only right and wrong, white and black… You live or you die.” (89:21–89:32)

9. The Path Forward: Building Bridges, Political Hope, and American Unity

• Both speakers stress the importance of authentic relationships—forging genuine connections between native-born Americans and “emerging constituencies” is the only way to build a truly American community (59:17–60:33).
• The episode closes with an invitation for listeners to attend the 50th anniversary Hmong New Year celebration in St. Paul—a vivid example of cultural resilience and openness to all Americans.
• Calls for cross-community healing: “We eat Chinese food all the time. We need to invite them to come eat Hmong food.” —Cha Vang (96:48)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On being used by America:

  “To be an enemy of the United States can be dangerous. But to be a friend… can be deadly.”
  —Bill Colby, recalled by Cha Vang (41:11)

• On betrayal of allies:

  “My father felt betrayed...he’s only got 60,000 troops, dependent on the hand… that feeds you to survive.”
  —Cha Vang (46:06–47:14)

• On the switch in U.S. policy after Nixon's trip to China:

  “After he [Nixon] came back from that trip, supplies were not coming in… planes were breaking down...He cut a deal.”
  —Cha Vang (37:46–38:26)

• On the pain of leaving Laos:

  “He was on the airstrip of Long Chieng, the secret CIA base. That’s the last time he saw his country… Loved his country. He’s buried in Southern California. America’s home for us now.”
  —Cha Vang (67:28–67:39)

• On traditional clan-based support:

  “If you say no more programs for Hmong homelessness… you 18 clan leaders, you gotta go talk to your clans and figure it out… I guarantee you we’ll handle it.”
  —Cha Vang (87:45–88:21)

• On political outreach:

  “Show up to clan meetings, show up to festivals… Be sincere… If you respect our elders, you respect us.”
  —Cha Vang (54:51–57:48)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Origins & Migration: 11:00–17:44
• WWII/Colonial Era: 18:00–27:35
• Special Guerrilla Units, Secret War: 29:00–39:02
• Betrayal, Aftermath, and Moral Lessons: 40:40–47:14
• Leaving Laos, Refugee Experience: 67:08–67:39
• Clan System vs. Modern Welfare: 63:44–65:01; 81:49–88:21
• Community, Homelessness, and Culture Shock: 76:06–78:07
• Political Leanings & Voter Engagement: 54:51–80:46
• Call to Action, Hmong New Year Festival: 94:48–96:21

Episode Tone & Takeaway

• The conversation is frank, empathetic, and sometimes raw, shaped by both painful memory and a commitment to hope and collaboration.
• Both speakers stress humility, the importance of oral history, and the practical path forward: meaningful relationships, honest reckoning with history, and the imperative for all Americans to come together across lines of culture and party.
• Listeners are invited (literally) into Hmong community events and into the larger work of rebuilding American civic life.

Bottom Line:
This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in immigrant communities, U.S. foreign policy consequences, or how to build authentic political coalitions. Through one Hmong family's journey, it asks: What does it mean to be used for American aims—then left to survive? And how, after such stories, do we build a new story—together?