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TEXAS SENATE RACE HEATS UP, TYLER ROBINSON UPDATE & THOMAS MASSIE DRAMA | THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW
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- [00:00]
Charlie Kirk
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- [01:50]
Blake
Tap to discover. Try TikTok now.
- [02:14]
Charlie Kirk
The Charlie Kirk show starts now.
- [02:19]
Defense Attorney
Thank you. I want to go back to this court order dated September 16th of 2025, which says lawyers who have participated, who are now participating or who will yet participate in the investigation or litigation of this case in any way shall abide strictly by Rule 3.6 of the Utah Rules of Professional Conduct. Rule 3.6 prohibits a lawyer from making, quote, an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know, will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing and adjudicative proceeding in the matter. Close quote. This court did not give counsel leave to decide whether extrajudicial statements correcting what counsel has argued are media misinterpretations of pleadings are an appropriate exception. And so actually, what counsel's argument reminds me is that there was another option that the state had. The other option, which the state had, which is probably this court's preferable option, would have been to say, your honor, we need to have a hearing. We need to have a hearing to find out if this court believes that when the media misinterprets the content of a pleading, we can go do media interviews and send emails correcting it. Your honor, is that an exception to 3.6 that this court sanctions? And if the answer had been yes, then there would have been a judicially supervised crafting of that. My suspicion is the court would have said no. 3.6 is intended to allow one party to make extrajudicial statements implicitly where another party has already done so. And we need to balance the playing field. Mr. Robinson's defense team, and I've said this before, has strictly adhered to the principle that we will have no contact with any media and we will not make any. Any statements to any media entity of any type. And in the same way that Mr. Ballard apparently was getting this influx of media inquiries, so are we every day. And we never, ever respond at all. Because to do so would be a violation of 3.6, because there is no exception under the situation here. We did not say in our pleading that the ATF report concluded that there was not a match. That is not what it says. And of course, our pleadings speak for themselves. The massive media interest in this case is not an escape hatch on Rule 3.6. It doesn't matter how much media attention there is. It doesn't matter whether it's accurate or inaccurate, as long as it's not something generated by one of the parties. That's just what we are all dealing with in this case.
- [06:17]
Sean Davis
And
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Defense Attorney
there is nothing that we have done in connection with the media that justifies what the state did here or excuses it. I'm going to talk briefly about views of exculpatory evidence. The state, as your honor knows, has a burden to prove a defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The absence of evidence that a fact finder might find probative of guilt is itself exculpatory. So in a hypothetical case, there's no fingerprint evidence. The state doesn't offer any. That's exculpatory. In a hypothetical case, there's no confession. The state can't offer it. That's exculpatory. The absence of evidence is exculpatory. So the ATF's inability to match is exculpatory. The state can say that there are parts of that analysis which are inculpatory. That's fine. But it is for the finder of fact. And it is well established that the absence of evidence pointing at guilt is by definition exculpatory. And so what this court obviously has is two different views on what evidence is of what value. And a devoted, well skilled prosecutor sees one piece of evidence one way and a diligent defense attorney sees it the other way. And the question is, what do the people in the box think about inculpatory versus exculpatory? And finally, on this discovery question, your
- [08:16]
Charlie Kirk
honor,
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Jay Town
Every day is a battle for your mind. Raging information coming from every angle with
- [08:34]
Charlie Kirk
the will to deceive. Fear not, you found the place for truth, the voice of a generation that still has the will to believe in the greatest country in the history of the world. This is the Charlie Kirk Show. Buckle up. Here we go. All right. Welcome to the why Refi Studios. It's May 19th here in Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome, welcome. We have much to get to, and we're getting started with a bang. Here we have Ken Paxton, of course, who's running for U.S. senate from the great state of Texas, joining by phone. Welcome to the show, sir.
- [09:11]
Ken Paxton
Hey, thanks for having me on. Good to be back.
- [09:14]
Charlie Kirk
Well, listen, we booked you, sir, to talk about early voting, which began yesterday. And we encourage everybody to get out and vote early in Texas. Ken Paxton. Vote Ken Paxton. But then some news broke this morning where the president of the United States, President Trump, was speaking with reporters and he says at 12:30 Eastern today. So in approximately 23 minutes, he is going to make an endorsement one way or the other in your race for Senate. And I will say it. We love the president. We have his back. But regardless, in this instance of the decision he makes, Turning Point action is already endorsed for you, sir. We're proud of that endorsement. We stand by it, and we think you're the right man for the job. We think you are the supported by the base, the grassroots, by the conservative movement, regular Americans. And Cornyn is the guy of the corporate class. He's the guy of the establishment. Tell us your reaction to this news, sir, and what are you looking for?
- [10:15]
Ken Paxton
Look, I'm always excited. I've obviously been a supporter of President Trump for a long time, stuck with him through even the tough times when they were going after him, went to his trial when no one else showed up but his son. And anyway, I trust the president I know he'll make a good decision. I'm continuing my fight right now with Gornyn during this early voting period and really need the support of Texans. But we all know that Donald Trump's endorsement is the most significant endorsement in the country and maybe the most significant endorsement in my lifetime. I've never seen anybody have such an impact on elections as the president as his endorsement has.
- [10:54]
Charlie Kirk
Well, I agree with you. He is the leader of the party, the leader of the movement, and his endorsement carries a lot of weight in this instance. Sir, I want to play two different clips from Charlie Kirk talking about this. He was a huge supporter of yours. He believed that you are the fighter that we need in D.C. and we've seen this incrementally. Blake talks about it a lot, that race by race, senator by senator, congressman by congressman. We're getting better, stronger than that fighting spirit that the President has injected into the conservative movement. You are an inheritor of that. You are a product of that, sir. I believe you had it before, but you certainly have grabbed onto it, and you carry the mantle of America first as well as anybody in the country, Mr. Attorney General Paxton. And I think Charlie saw this in you, and he saw the opposite, frankly, in John Cornyn. I'm gonna play this clip. This is from 2023. Charlie was really upset. I have never, in my 10 years of doing this, seen such an intentional, brazen, and defiant mode of action as what I have just seen from John Cornyn. I have never seen in my 10 years of doing this, someone so openly rebuked by their voters and then so quickly turning 180 degrees around and saying, I don't care. Cornyn doesn't like you. And he jokes about it, actually. Cornyn hates you. He knows he'll still get money from his corporate donors. He knows that instead of being allied with his voters and be like, maybe there's something I could learn here, he pokes him in the eye and says, no, no, no, no, no. I'm the senator. You, you're the serf. What. What do you think, Mr. Attorney General, when you hear Charlie saying those things about your opponent here?
- [12:57]
Ken Paxton
I couldn't agree with him more. I was there. I know. I know exactly what he's talking about. He's gone against our Republican base over and over for his entire 42 years in office. And I think what he's referring to in that message is he's talking about when he sided with Joe Biden on restricting the Second Amendment rights. And when he did that, he got booed at the Texas Republican Convention for 30 straight minutes while he spoke. And after he left, he had complete disdain for the voters thinking, these guys don't matter. They're all just friends. But guess what, John? Those are our people. Those are the people you should actually care about. And he had complete disdain. And he's never come back to speak at the Republican Convention again. Ignores us and says we don't matter because I've got Washington money, I've got Washington support, and I don't need the Republicans of Texas.
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Charlie Kirk
Amen. So here's. Let's just call out the elephant in the room here, Ken. You've got people in the party, in the establishment, especially in D.C. that say you can't win a general, you can't win a race. You're too conservative, you're too America first, you're too maga. You can't win against Tal Rico. Right. What's your response to that?
- [14:13]
Ken Paxton
Well, the first thing is they told Donald Trump the same thing. Right. That he couldn't win. They've told me that for three. I've run in three general elections in Texas. That means the entire state had to vote. And in each of those with little money, I outperformed what everybody expected me to do. I competed equally with other Republicans that had 100 times of the money that I had. I get outspent by a lot of money, and yet I've always performed better. Better than these naysayers talk about. There's no polling that suggests that what they're saying is true. John Cornyn used this as a talking point because he knows that the Republican base does not appreciate how he's treated them for the last 42 years, and they're sick of it. And he's like, well, it doesn't matter because I'm still a Republican and I'm better than Puerto Rican. I'm the only one that can win. That's just not true. The polling doesn't suggest it. As a matter of fact, I actually outperform them in some of these polls. And I think it's because people have no energy for John Cornyn because he has done nothing in 42 years that is good. No one's ever been able to name that. I've talked to thousands of people, and I've asked them the same question over and over and every meeting. What have you done good for in 42 years? Can you name one thing? And no one's ever named it.
- [15:20]
Charlie Kirk
Mr. Attorney General, I think you've just hit the nail on the head here. I Believe that your race is one of the most, if not the most critical race in this midterm, and I'll explain why. You have to give the base some reason to turn out. And you are the basis fighter. You are the chosen fighter for the grassroots. The core constituency that is going to show up in a midterm wants to vote for you. They will come out to the polls to vote for you. They will get enthusiastic for you. Midterms are a turnout election exercise. And if there is not a reason for the base to turn out, they will not, they will stay at home, they will not come out. And you are the guy that inspires them, that gives them enthusiasm, that gives them faith that they have a fighter being sent to Washington, D.C. and so that's, that's the, that's the whole crux of the issue here. If you take away their fighter, they may just stay home and you get James Talrica final 40 seconds.
- [16:21]
Ken Paxton
Yeah, I totally agree with you. Look, people have to have a reason to get out and vote. This is a competitive state. It's, we're going to win it, but it is still competitive. We still have to have somebody that has a message. And the message can't be, well, I've been there a long time, so just keep voting for me. I don't do anything good. I do some bad stuff. Yeah, a lot of bad stuff. That's not enough to get you elected in Texas anymore. You actually have to have a message of hope and opportunity and a conservative message that inspires people to get out. And that's what we're doing with this campaign. And we're going to beat John Cornyn and then we're going to beat James Tallarigo.
- [16:56]
Charlie Kirk
Mr. Attorney General, how much did you win your last general election race by? How many points?
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Ken Paxton
It was like 10 points. Close to 10 points. I don't know. Right around 10.
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Charlie Kirk
So you just won by 10 points, but you can't win a general. That's their best line against you. You just won by 10 points.
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Ken Paxton
Yes, yes. And I spent a fraction of the money of other statewides who also won by 10. I think the governor won by 11, but he also, you know, he spent 200 million or 100.
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Charlie Kirk
Yeah, I was going to say, how much money has been wasted in your primary battle thus far by Republican? Republican on Republican. By the way, this isn't trying to beat Democrats. This is Republican on Republican. How much has been spent against you? How much do you predict is going to be spent against you when this is said and done?
- [17:37]
Ken Paxton
So in the first round, first in the primary, before the run, it was 100 million. So I'm guessing somewhere between total of 130 and $150 million. That could have gone to North Carolina, that could have gone to Georgia, that could have gone to Maine. And yet for some reason they decided to waste it on John Cornyn.
- [17:53]
Charlie Kirk
That's a crime against the GOP base. Sir, we have your back and we're going to be watching this endorsement closely. Mr. President, we hope you make the right decision here. We believe in you and we trust you. And Ken Paxton's the guy for Texas and for the country. Ken Paxton, good luck, sir. We got your back.
- [18:12]
Ken Paxton
Thank you.
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Charlie Kirk
We'll be right back.
- [18:19]
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- [18:48]
Charlie Kirk
Turn someday into right now with Body by Jake Radio. Non stop workout music and expert tips 24. 7. Hey, head over to iheart.com search body by Jake radio and stream it for free right now. Awesome. Health and wellness tips 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Remember, stick to the fight. When your hardest hit. It's when things seem worse that you must not quit. Don't quit. Body by Jake Radio where hope meets momentum. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free.
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Commercial Announcer
Have a great day.
- [19:16]
Charlie Kirk
Iheartradio. All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We're here at the Y Refi Studio studios in Phoenix, Arizona. That was a fantastic discussion with Attorney General Ken Paxton. And like I said, the president is scheduled to make his endorsement at 12:30.
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Blake
Maybe he'll endorse both. He's done that before.
- [19:41]
Charlie Kirk
He has these races. Well, he did it with the Biggs and Karen Taylor Robeson before she dropped out of the governor race here in Arizona. You know, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. I'll tell you guys about strongcell.com Strong Cell is a breakthrough energy supplement. See if you have chronic fatigue, chronic illness, brain fog, word recall issues. We've got guys with swollen ankles getting fixed. There's all kinds of things that when you energize yourselves properly, that you will see remedied. That's thethat's the breakthrough. Nadh is a tough thing. To get into your system, though, your stomach tends to kill it. So a lot of people had to go to IV clinics and spend hundreds of dollars. At the IV clinic, no more strong cells. Come up with a proprietary delivery mechanism of that enzyme, nadh in a liquid formula great for absorption. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars anymore. You just need to go to strongcell.com, use promo code Charlie for 20% off and a 90 day risk free money back guarantee. Also, it's interesting, we had Dr. Oz on and he was saying that this has some of the strongest anti aging benefits statistically of anything out there. So that's also amazing. StrongCell.com get your 20% off. Use promo code Charlie here. Here's to you got to do it every day.
- [20:53]
Blake
Yeah, that's. He missed. He missed his weekend.
- [20:55]
Charlie Kirk
I missed my weekend.
- [20:56]
Blake
You're gonna get sick again.
- [20:57]
Charlie Kirk
I usually bring it home with me on the weekends, so. And I forgot this week. All right, here, real quick, we gotta play one other clip about Charlie and Ken Paxton. Didn't have enough time. The last segment. This is from. It looks like April of 2025, SOT 8, you have John Cornyn, who's been around for quite a while. John Cornyn has had some very, let's say, questionable votes in the last couple of years. And primary him is Ken Paxton, the Attorney General of Texas. Unfortunately, we've seen a pattern of people that go to the US Senate and they just kind of lose their gusto and their spirit. I don't think we're going to see that from you. Charlie giving his vote of confidence to Cornyn. What do you make or Ken Paxton, what do you make of this moment that we're about to watch? How important do you think it is, Blake?
- [21:57]
Blake
I mean, fairly important? Well, it's interesting that President Trump is wading into this because he often has preferred to stay out. I feel of races that do seem genuinely 50, 50, because the President, the president likes to. He cares about getting guys who are allies, but he also just cares a lot about being the winner who's always decisive in deciding things. And he very much wants to avoid any race where he could make an endorsement and then fall short.
- [22:26]
Charlie Kirk
Right.
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Blake
And so I almost wonder what this pitch to them is looking like. Is the pitch them actually saying Cornyn is the better ally or are they just saying Cornyn's got it locked up. You want to just make this call because he'll win? And as we know, it's actually quite.
- [22:40]
Charlie Kirk
No, no, I think I think Paxton is actually ahead in most polls over Cornyn right now. So maybe President Trump has seen enough and realizes that Paxton's the guy of the people. Although I will say it looks like the odds have it, the betting odds have it. Cornyn has just surged 80% in the betting odds to get the endorsement. And I just want to say, even if that happens, Turning Point actions endorsement is not going to change. We still have Ken Paxton's back. I think the people of Texas have Ken Paxton's back, especially in a primary vote. And we made the point in that interview with Ken that. Yeah, okay, the, the, the. The dig on you is that you're too conservative. You can't win a general. But he won his last race by 10 points in the state of Texas. I think President Trump won the 2024 election by 14 in Texas. 13 or 14. So. So President Trump outperformed that by a few points, but not by that much. And so, you know, Texas is a state that's more and more competitive. We understand that dynamic, but it's still a conservative state. Ken Paxton still has the edge. It doesn't matter if you send Cornyn or Paxton up, I think just from a polling standpoint, but I think in the midterm, when you don't have President Trump on the ballot, you have. If you're going to energize the base to turn out, you got to have somebody with a spine, with First America, first credentials to drive that election. The most important thing is votes.
- [24:03]
Blake
You just can't have a senator from Texas who is a Republican and is pro amnesty.
- [24:08]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, that's what Cornyn is.
- [24:09]
Blake
You can't.
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Charlie Kirk
Cornyn is a squish on the. He is. He is a. From a bygone era where they don't see immigration the same way we do. They don't see the social issues the same way we do. They're dinosaurs. And President Trump defies that because he sort of was the instrument to bring some of this to bear and get it to the forefront, to get us talking about immigration in the right way, to get us talking about social issues with a spine, with a backbone. Cornyn didn't adopt that.
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Blake
One of the first things, when I was at Fox In 2017, we were getting leaks from staffers in Cornyn's office that he was not aligned on immigration. And in fact, he was. He was saying one thing and doing another in private, and we were getting things of that nature from his office. That was nine years ago. And, okay, nothing's changed since then. What is the justification for keeping this guy around, because he'll still be around six years from now if he wins again.
- [25:03]
Charlie Kirk
And this is the whole thing. You have to give the base hope that the promises are being fulfilled from the election. All right? You see some fraying at the edges of the coalition. Well, that happens when they feel like promises are not getting fulfilled. Right. You saw this with Iran. No new wars. We got a war, okay? We're going to trust the President that he doesn't get us into quagmires and forever wars. But there is, you know, there is a leash there. There is a patience quotient that can be exhausted. Right. And so even President Trump, you know, I just, I think he's gotta remember that his base is begging and pleading that the things that he promised in 2024 get accomplished. I think the President's doing amazing work on so many different issues. Tariffs, bringing back domestic manufacturing, the spirit of growth and optimism, the golden era, all of those things. Immigration, enforcement, the borders closed. There's a lot to praise the President about the end of DEI and the resurgence of meritocracy throughout the government. We have the lowest federal government employment rates since 19, I believe, 1966. So we're making a lot of headway. Right? There's 300,000 plus federal employees that either no longer have a job or the position hasn't been filled because they are cutting the fat. We're cutting fraud. JD Vance at the President's direction is doing a tremendous job. I actually have an op ed coming out on Thursday about this. So many good things to praise and to celebrate, and one of those core pieces is personnel. The President has done such a good job picking better people in Trump 2.0 than he did in Trump 1.0. Of course, you're still gonna get some traitors and some saboteurs that come through and that they, they find a way into the mix. But that's the exception, not the rule this time. Also, Senate, Congress, you got to have fighters that have your back. The Democrats stick together like white on Rice. They are inseparable. They vote as a bloc. And we need to get better as conservatives to have people like Ken Paxton that are going to have your back when it's. When the, when the chips are down and things are tough and you're back against the wall. So that is Ken Paxton. He's a fighter that has shown it doesn't matter what you throw at this guy. And he's going to fight, and he's going to fight, and he's going to fight just like the President. So we got to have more guys like Ken Paxton in DC the guy can win a general. He's going to take down Tal Rico. He's going to energize the base. In an off year election where President Trump is not on the ballot, you got to have an excuse to get out. Ken Paxton will energize the base and get those votes out. We're going to bring in Jay Town next. Who's going to help us break down this Tyler Robinson here. What we're learning, what we've heard so far. Stay right there.
- [27:49]
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- [28:00]
Charlie Kirk
Well, that would be gold.
- [28:01]
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- [30:27]
Jay Town
Stop watching the news. The Charlie Kirk Show.
- [30:31]
Charlie Kirk
All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We have some breaking news that I got to get to in just a second. You're not, you're not going to want to miss this breaking news. But first, I want to tell you about all family pharmacy. For a lot of Americans, the health care system is reactive. Don't do that. Don't live that way anymore. You don't have to be reactive. Be proactive. Get prepared ahead of time before you get sick. So you have everything you need waiting for you. With All Family Pharmacy, you can order prescription medications before you are sick. Keep them at home, have them ready. Everything is done online. A licensed physician reviews your request and your medication ships straight to your door. They offer antibiotics, antivirals, all the things they have over like 400 different prescription meds that you can get. And the licensed doctor reviews them. They've got like hair pills. They got weight loss stuff. They got all the things. Okay. So you don't have to worry about anything. Choose freedom. Choose the right pharmacy. Go toAllFamily Pharmacy.com Kirk use code Kirk10 to save 10% on your next order. AllFamilyPharmacy.com Kirk use Kirk10 for 10% off your next order. Blake, what's the breaking?
- [31:40]
Blake
President Trump has announced his endorsement and even though all of 10 minutes ago it was 80% for Cornyn, he is endorsing Ken Paxton.
- [31:48]
Charlie Kirk
Ken Paxton. Do we have the applause track in There we go.
- [31:51]
Blake
It's a very long one. We'll do a few highlight lines. He says, the highly respected Attorney General of Texas, Ken Paxton and America first patriot and someone who has always been extremely loyal to me and our amazing MAGA movement, is running for the US Senate to represent a place I love and won big three times with 6.4 million votes in 2024, the most in the history of the state by far. Very Trumpian tweet here. But he says, I know Ken well. He is a winner. Ken is a strong supporter of terminating the filibuster and very importantly, the Save America Act. And I want to. He goes on for a bit. Ken will help me do all the things I want, making America bigger, better and stronger than ever before. Ken is a true MAGA warrior who has always delivered for Texas and will continue to do so in the United States Senate. He says John Cornyn is a good man and I worked well with him, but he is not supportive of me. When times were tough, and despite having the most successful economy in the history of the country in my first term, John was very late in backing me in what turned out to be a historic run for the Republican nomination and then the presidency. Ken has gone through a lot and in many cases, very unfairly, but he is a fighter and knows how to win. Ken Paxton will never let you down. Donald trump, President of the United States,
- [33:07]
Charlie Kirk
want to celebrate this. This is a good, good moment for the base, good moment for the coalition. I think this is the 100% correct decision. And again, we talk about coalition building. We talk about keeping that 2024 coalition together. This is, this is an endorsement that helps him do that. So very, very good news here. Very, very happy that this is the decision that was made when a lot of people said it was going to go the other way. The prediction markets had it 80% corny just minutes ago. You would have lost a lot of money on that bet. So there you are. So well done. President Trump, if you're watching, I was told that it was possible you were watching this morning. So if you're still watching, congratulations on a great decision. I want to bring in Jay Towne, who is a career prosecutor. He's a Newsmax contributor, but he's been in so many criminal cases, violent crimes, death penalty cases. Jay, welcome back to the show. Sir, great to have you. So this morning there is ongoing right now there is a trial, there's a hearing going on. Judge Tony Graf is hearing arguments from the defense on various topics. You, you know, you've been you had a busy morning, but you're catching bits and pieces of it here. JAY it seems to be most of this around so far has been around as they're trying to get the prosecutor, one of the prosecutors held in contempt for for breaking a gag order. And it appears to be related to that ATF report, which was the first time we had you on the show. What, what are you hearing and seeing?
- [34:40]
Jay Town
JAY yeah, so Rule 3.6 of the Rules of Professional Responsibility, which every lawyer has to follow, and as a prosecutor relevant here says that it involves pretrial publicity. And so you can't make extrajudicial statements, meaning out of court statements that would materially prejudice the defendant. So let's say I know something is hearsay and inadmissible But I go on TV and I talk about that evidence knowing that a jury's never going to hear it. That is an extrajudicial statement that does materially prejudice a defendant and is prohibited. The problem. And I'm glad the state prosecutors nailed the Robinson's defense counsel on this today because this bugged me the first time you had me on your show. And all we had. We didn't have the ATF report at the time, but I told you that. I guarantee you that that ATF report suggests that it could not be excluded, that the bullet found in Charlie Kirk's body came from that rifle. It wasn't just that they were unable to identify a match between the bullet and the rifle and that it was a.30 caliber class bullet. Meaning that's the type of bullet that is fired from the gun that has Robinson's DNA on it. But that was excluded from the defense counsel's motion. Sure enough, we get the ATF report. It's exactly what it said. We also understand that it says it's unable to identify or exclude. Right. Or exclude, meaning we don't know because it was such a badly damaged shrapnel mushroomed round that was found in Charlie's body. So we just can't give any meaningful analysis to it to match the striations of the.36. That was fine.
- [36:23]
Charlie Kirk
And Jay, just don't mean to interrupt you, but I got to throw this original image up. So this all came back down to the Daily Mail article that came out at the time, which let's. Let's just read their headline here. Bullet used to kill Charlie Kirk did not.
- [36:39]
Jay Town
All caps did not match.
- [36:41]
Charlie Kirk
Not match rifle allegedly used by suspect Tyler Robinson. New court filing claims this sent the Internet and the Twitter sphere absolutely bonkers. Ablaze. Crazy, right? So for like it was like 36 hours, this thing did, I don't know, 40 million engagements on Twitter alone, let alone all the YouTube videos that were made of it, TikToks and everything. So this misleading headline went probably three times around the world before the truth had a chance to get his pants on. And so the defense attorney or the prosecutors apparently. Let me just pull up the exact quote because it is important. I want to make sure I get my exact quote here, sir. He apparently spoke to the press. And this would be Chris Ballard on the prosecution's team said when a bullet fragment analysis comes back as inconclusive, that means the fragment did not contain enough detail for the examiner to say one way or the other. We have ample evidence to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that Tyler Robinson committed this murder. And we will present some of that evidence at the. At the upcoming preliminary hearing, and then we will present all of that evidence at the trial. When you hear that quote directly. So this is the quote in question that they're saying that. That Chris Ballard should be held in contempt for making that statement to the press. When you see it in context, Right. Of what the media was doing, the Daily Mail article specifically, that you came on the show the next day to rebut, what do you. Do you feel like he broke that rule, or do you think he's well within his rights?
- [38:19]
Jay Town
No, absolutely not. And here's why. The defense motion that said that they were unable to identify that bullet matching the gun and that they want to call the ATF now to present exculpatory, meaning not guilty, didn't do it, you can't prove this beyond a reasonable doubt because there is exculpatory evidence in this ATF report. That's what the defense motion said. Like you said, that went around the world before the truth could put on its pants. And so under Rule 3.6 that was heavily cited by defense counsel today, it allows the prosecution to go out and correct the record when they have been materially prejudiced by incorrect and misleading statements. And he nailed the defense counsel. He didn't say that it was their intent, and he didn't blame the media for running with it. Who wouldn't, Right? If you read that motion, you think, oh, my God, the bullet doesn't match the gun. I knew what it meant because I've read hundreds of firearms and tool mark reports from the atf. But in. The defense counsel knew what it meant to being too smart by half, and they were called on it today. I don't think the judge is going to fall for this. This is. This is absurd to me. Maybe he'll entertain some more motions. But there is nothing contemptuous about correcting the record when they've been materially prejudiced, they being the same state of Utah.
- [39:37]
Charlie Kirk
Well, and listen, I don't mean to read too deeply into this, Blake, you're not an attorney, but you sometimes Play 1 on TV. But their motion that they made, that the Daily Mail extracted that headline for, it left out all of the other perspective. Right? And so the prosecution is sitting there. Meanwhile, like I said, the story's getting millions and millions of engagement. It's getting. People are getting worked into a lather in the conspiracy realms. And this cottage industry that's been drummed up and so if we're talking about prejudicing a defendant or a jury or whatever, that's the prejudice that I'm seeing. So you almost are obligated, it seems to me, to have to give something of the contrary, to give the other side of the coin, as it were. I'm not a lawyer, but that feels reasonable to me.
- [40:32]
Jay Town
Well, and you're doing an excellent job showing that it's not that difficult. Right. But they have a duty, the prosecution has a duty to be zealous under the same rules, professional conduct. And they have a duty to collect correct the public record. Remember, they didn't comment until that ATF report was unsealed and became public. And it was several weeks, if not well over a month that went by between that defense months, between that defense counsel's motion, the reporting and when it be, you know, got corrected. And we did that on your show. It said exactly what you and I talked about. It would say. So this is part of their duty, actually, to correct the record because it is impacting their jury pool if they don't. And that's not zealous defense of your client, their client being the state of Utah, the laws of the state of Utah and the people who reside there. So they did exactly what they're supposed to do today.
- [41:25]
Charlie Kirk
What happens if Chris Ballard is found in contempt? What are the consequences and the ramifications?
- [41:31]
Jay Town
I don't see a universe where that happens, Andrew, honestly. But what I'll say is that, I mean, he could. He could be fined, he could be told he can't do it again. He could be reported to the bar. He's not going to be removed from the case. None of that's going to happen. What Ballard did was not contemptuous. He's not a contemnor as a new word that the defense like to say several times today, as if they just read an appellate brief. So it is to me, I find it incredible that we're even there today. Not to mention that they want to close the entire preliminary hearing down so the media can't watch all this evidence against Tyler Robinson in which there is mounting. And I'll suggest that they can waive a prelim hearing anytime they want to. They don't have to have it if they think it's going to prejudice their client client. Instead, they want to keep a public trial, which is a constitutional right, out of public view, and that's an absence. The judge wasn't buying that either.
- [42:24]
Charlie Kirk
Jay, I have more questions for you, and I want to get Blake to weigh in here. Can you stay one more segment real quick or do you have to? Okay, hang tight right there. Jay. I know your time is tight today. I want to tell you guys about why refi. If you are an accredited investor, you can earn up to 10.25% and that interest rate is fixed. You can invest from one to five years so you get more interest if you invest longer term with them. And you can spread your investment over those terms to best suit your needs, your investment, your interest income is calculated daily and paid out monthly. You can take that, reinvest it or take it off the board as profits. Whatever you choose. Yrefi are amazing. For complete details, make sure to review the private placement memorandum and scan this QR code to view the disclosures at your leisure. Invest yrefi.com check them out today. We'll be right back. All right, really quick guys. I want to tell you about Patriot Mobile. Patriot Mobile are fantastic. Glenn and Jenny's story they often watch. They're amazing patriots, genuinely great Christians. They believe in this country. They back all the right things. Christian conservatives and they have a cell phone company called Patriot Mobile that's fantastic. Has access to all three major U.S. carriers. So you might be in a part of the country that gets better service with one or the other. They have access to all three. You can even get access to two on one phone with the dual sim. But they support your Christian conservative values and they're on the front lines fighting alongside us. So back them, please, please, please back them. You can keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. They even do contract buyouts. They do all the things you do not have to give up anything when you go with Patriot Mobile. They also have 1% US based customer support. So go to patriot mobile.com Charlie if you are one of those people out there in this audience that still hasn't made the switch, send me an email. Tell me why. Tell me why. What is the rationale for not making the switch? Go to patriot mobile.com charlie or call 972patriot972patriot and use the promo code Charlie for a free month of service today. That's patriot mobile.com Charlie or call 972 Patriot promo code Charlie. All of us patriots, we have to link together. We are stronger together. We have to support the good guys. Spend your money in the right place and on the right causes. Patriot Mobile is one of those. We so endorse them and I use them. It's fantastic. You won't notice any difference in your services matter of fact, it'll get better because you have better customer service, and it's cheaper supporting the good guys. All right, Seriously, I mean that if you are one of the people that are not supporting or have not made the switch, send an email. Blake's got the emails open right now. I want to know your rationale, so we're going to address those. All right, more J. Town here, Jay. I mentioned I want to get Blake in here because, you know, one of the pushbacks at the last hearing from the defense was that they hadn't got all the discovery. Now they're saying that they've got. We've handed over all the discovery. We've gotten additional discovery, including thousands and thousands of files from ring cameras and residential neighborhoods and stuff like that. What. How much is that element of this discovery? Is that going to play into this case, do you believe?
- [45:37]
Sean Davis
Yeah.
- [45:37]
Jay Town
Well, and very quickly, before I answer your question, I just want to say that the reach of this show and Charlie Kirk's legacy continues well beyond Charlie Kirk's death. My wife texted me during the break saying she's actually watching me. I didn't even tell her I was going to be on. But that's. That's just how my family loves you guys and loves what you're doing. Love Charlie and the Kirk family. And I'm glad to be helping out with this story. To answer your question, the. The next thing. And she's beautiful, and I love my wife. What I could tell is.
- [46:08]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah.
- [46:09]
Jay Town
Is that they're going to. The next complaint is going to be there's too much discovery. Right. We can't possibly go through it all. We need years and experts and more money and software to kind of parse through it. And so that's going to be the next one. Give us it all. Well, now you've given us too much. How can we possibly get through all of this before the prelim? Let's extend that out another year because we have all this video to watch, and we have to have an expert tell us is what wrong with his gait when he's walking with the gun down his pants, for instance. And so those are. Those are all just defense tactics. And I don't think that. I think the judge is tiring quickly of this defense team.
- [46:44]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, I noticed that, too. Some of. In the clips, you hear Judge Graff actually going, isn't that too broad? Isn't that too far? Like, he does seem to be losing some patience. I don't know if you're seeing the same thing, Blake, but that's what I'm
- [46:57]
Blake
just, I just keep thinking about the bigger picture thing that we've had, what, a dozen hearings at this point by now, all these back and forth motions, they want to push back this hearing. We literally, we haven't entered a plea so far, to my understanding. I'm looking at the timeline of other famous trials. In the O.J. simpson case, he was arraigned and pleaded not guilty eight days after the murder. And like, you don't have to. Yeah. And here we still have no plea.
- [47:23]
Charlie Kirk
What, what do you read into that, Jay?
- [47:24]
Blake
I guess my bigger picture question that I'd like to answer is, is this a, is this quirks of Utah law? Is this quirks of modern capital case law? Is all of this normal and we just normally don't see it because cases aren't this high profile, or is this case truly unusual?
- [47:39]
Charlie Kirk
Great question.
- [47:41]
Jay Town
So I will say for capital litigation, I've been a part, I've put people on death row twice, and it doesn't sound like a large number. It's a huge number. And I've been a part of capital litigation and I can tell you this is perfectly normal defense counsel. Every single stone that they can overturn or every, every single angle or sliver of an argument that they can make, they're going to make for the record. They know the result of it. The judge is going to entertain it. He's not going to throw papers in the air and his hands in the air because they've all conceded in their minds at this moment. I guarantee you that Tyler Robinson will be found guilty and that he will be sentenced to death. And that's why they are peppering the record with all these little tiny issues about contempt or, you know, open courtrooms in the media and we've gotten too much discovery and you're rushing us. Those are just things that appellate courts will review and determine if a Fifth Amendment right was violated because of that speed. That's why the judge is being so deliberate in this case.
- [48:45]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah. So that, I mean, that's exact. That's been my read as well, Jay. It feels like the judge is aware of the strategy here to pepper the record, try and get something that make him make a mistake so that it can be reviewed on appeal or overturned or relitigated in some way, shape or form or fashion in the future. It feels like, though, Judge Graff is onto this and he's playing this very deliberately, very fairly on purpose. I have one other question here, Jay, for you. So, you know, the issue of was Tyler Robinson radicalized by outsiders. Did other people know it? You know, I believe that those investigations are still ongoing, technically by the FBI. I would love more intel on it, candidly. But do you believe that that plays any role in the prosecution of Tyler Robinson, specifically? Right. So we know we have a mountain of evidence that suggests that he was the individual that pulled the trigger. He's, you know, confessions pulled in, brought in by family members, all of these things. DNA, the bullets, the gun. But if there's other people involved, how does that impact. Because I do believe that's still an open question. That's fair to ask. But how does that impact what goes on with Tyler Robinson?
- [49:57]
Jay Town
Yeah, the only way it would. I mean, so it doesn't impact his guilt at all. I mean, if there was 20 co conspirators and we didn't know who they were, and Tyler Robinson's still going to trial for the death of Charlie Kirk and he's still facing the death penalty. So it doesn't change any of the evidence or the proofs against him. The only thing that if there was such a thing and he knew about them, you know, the state could a deal with him to get more information about those individuals. That's the only sort of value to Charlie Kirk that could sort of minimize the exposure to his sentence. But otherwise it doesn't. It's not exculpatory. If anything, if there's co conspirators, it's just more evidence of the crime itself and the premeditation. That's. That's right. That's not helpful to him if he's gonna suggest, as they have continued to do, that he's not guilty. I would suggest to you that the evidence is. I've proven cases beyond a reasonable doubt with way less evidence than what the state of Utah has against Tyler Robinson.
- [50:56]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, and in some ways, when you talk about discovery and just how much there is, it's kind of like it's all sort of the context, the underlying context is just this mountain of evidence that's going to be very difficult for the defense to argue against. Yeah, J Town, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. Final 10 seconds. Where can people follow you? Jay, as you're doing an analysis on this and other, other cases, you can
- [51:20]
Jay Town
find me at J Town, Alabama on X. And thanks for having me on, guys. God bless you.
- [51:24]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, God bless you too. Thank you for being willing to jump on. I know you had a busy morning, Jay, so thank you so much. All right, that's it for hour one. Hour two coming up Next, Sean Davis joins at the top. And next hour, we're going to talk Massey and some other things. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back. Hour two of the Charlie Kirk show is underway, and I am feeling very buoyant. I'm feeling enthusiastic. Sean Davis, co founder and CEO of the Federalist, joins us now. We're gonna talk shop, talk politics. Sean, President Trump made the right decision in Texas. The betting odds before that decision were made had Cornyn up at like, 80% odds of getting the endorsement. President Trump defies the betting odds. Goes with the proven America first fighter, Ken Paxton, your reaction?
- [52:38]
Sean Davis
I think my main reaction was relief. I saw that same announcement that everyone else said that Trump was gonna endorse in the Senate race. And after seeing him go and go endorse Amnesty. Mike Lawler, New York. And then go after Boebert, he's, you know, BFFs with Graham, I thought, oh, crap, we're screwed again. But, no, we were not screwed. Trump came through. He endorsed Ken Paxton. And what I find most interesting about this is all that John Cornyn had to do was pass the Save America Act. Ken Paxton said he would drop out if John Cornyn passed it. Trump said he would endorse him if he passed it. And not only did he not pass it, he didn't even try. So it's amazing to me that I guess John Cornyn wanted to be a private citizen citizen more than he wanted to enact voter ID and secure our elections. I mean, that's a. It's an interesting flex from him, but one that's kind of fascinating to me.
- [53:32]
Blake
That's actually, I think that's the best way I've heard it put yet. Like, we were mentioning John Cornyn. We were getting told. I was at Fox nine years ago, and we were getting leaks about how he loves Amnesty, opposes Trump on immigration. But, yeah, he. These guys who love staying in office as much as they do, they love just clinging to power through every change of the waves, but he can't concede on an issue where he's not even in alignment with his base. It'd be one thing if you were unwilling to give up on an issue that had been a Republican cause forever or this conservative cause, and you just won't compromise. But he's not willing to compromise on an issue where he agrees with the left to stay in office. It's just puts it perfectly. And, yeah, Save America act could have saved him. Instead, he cannot save himself.
- [54:17]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah. Do we have intel on where he stands on the on the filibuster.
- [54:23]
Sean Davis
I think he has generally supported it. But, you know, we. I think we've talked about it on the show before. You didn't actually need to get rid of the filibuster in order to pass the Save America Act. We just had to have 50 Republican senators who went to work every day and were going to be on the floor every day to exhaust Democrat filibuster options. You didn't have to nuke the filibuster, but I guess working five days a week was also too much to ask.
- [54:46]
Charlie Kirk
It's asking a lot. That's asking a lot, Sean. You know, by the way, Blake's made this point a lot. And so Blake, feel free to chime in, but the nuking, the enacting an actual talking filibuster, right, where they have to debate and they have to show up and you have to get a quorum and all these things would do so much good for the United States Senate, Sean, because it would restore the body to what it should be.
- [55:11]
Blake
It's a real Senate. You can't have John Cornyns anymore who. Bsu, who lie to you for years on end. I would love to do this thing, but we just don't have 60 votes.
- [55:20]
Charlie Kirk
And they fill their days with, like, pointless, you know, rubber chicken meetings and like, you know, side meetings and lobbyist meetings instead of doing the people's work on the floor of the Senate. That is. That, to me, is why we can't get them to gather for five days a week and do like a nine to five like everybody else. We're not asking for, you know, over. Well, maybe we would, but the point is they should be willing to do it. You're one of a hundred people in the country that has been blessed with this job. Show up for it, but instead they know that their job is a bunch of smoke and mirrors garbage where it's just like presenting the greatest deliberative body. No, you are not the greatest deliberative body anymore. You've turned into a shadow of yourself, a husk of your former self, and you don't show up for work because you have meetings all day with lobbyists and donors and blah, blah, blah. So, anyways, I'm completely with you. I think. Ken Paxton. I agree, Sean. There's a little bit of relief because on some level, probably shouldn't have been this hard, but I'm glad that it happened. I feel like it's a shot in the arm for the base heading into the midterms.
- [56:22]
Sean Davis
It is. And, man, when we talk about the destruction of the Senate, it would be easy to be like, Harry Reid did it and this was all the Democrats. The reality is that the Senate was killed in a very bipartisan manner BY Both Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid, and they effectively turned the Senate into the House. Now, not that the House is a bad thing, but House has a very different purpose. It exists to represent the people. It is very much majority ruled and has been for a very long time. You don't have an open amendment process. Stuff comes to the floor, you vote it up or down, you move on. That's not how the Senate was. It's not how The Senate was 15 years ago. It's not how it was 20 years ago. You go and read old transcripts of Senate floor debates from, like, the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s, and you had individual senators without the help of staff doing extemporaneous colloquies and soliloquies on the finer points of parliamentary procedure. And they were doing it all hours of the day and the night. And instead, what we have now is a gerontocracy of low IQ idiots who really can't even bother to work three days a week for more than six hours a day. It's a total tragedy. Hopefully we're moving on from that. Hopefully getting someone like Paxton and who's clearly a man of action and get stuff done will change that culture.
- [57:39]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, And I, by the way, I think he's going to win the general. I think he's going to run away with it. I think minimum of 4 points, but I think he could win. End up winning by like 6, 7. I mean, Tal Rico is going to be a formidable opponent in the Senate. I think that's a joke. Tal Rico is a, like, listen, I know better. I have fear of the Lord. I'm not going to. I'm not going to debate his eternal destiny or something like that, but I will just say that from a theological standpoint, the guy is a complete woke joke. This is the kind of Christianity that dies on the vine, that empties the pews and church buildings shudder when they endorse. Okay, like, whatever he's preaching is the complete opposite of what I read in Scripture. And so for him to sort of like, come out here, is this, like, hicklib, you know, Christian? And now he's got a girlfriend, apparently, which. Which was up for debate whether or not that was something that was feasible for him. And so anyways, we're finding out this guy's going to be, you Know, appealing to that sort of heartland Texas, golly, G shucks Christianity thing here, the Ned Flanders Christianity, whatever you want to call it, I think it's complete turnoff for Texans, and I think Ken Paxton is going to absolutely run away with it. What's your take on when this gets to the general? Because I think at this point, Paxton's up in the primary. The endorsement is going to underscore that and help him. Let's just assume Paxton wins the primary. How do you see this general playing out?
- [59:07]
Sean Davis
Yeah, I think I tend to your point of view here, and I look at 2018 kind of as my benchmarks. That was a very bad year for Republicans. It was a blue wave for Democrats. We had Ted Cruz running for reelection. Cruz was not particularly likable. It wasn't really all that popular. Doesn't have a lot of the charisma you might want in a politician, but he voted solid. He was dependable. And then he was going up against a fundraising powerhouse in Robert Francis o', Rourke, AKA Beto. Don't know how he got that.
- [59:36]
Charlie Kirk
The fake Hispanic Irishman. That was Charlie Stevenson.
- [59:43]
Sean Davis
He raised like $100 million. Something insane. He still lost by four points. So I feel like Talarico's high watermark is going to be losing by four. Now, granted, it may be a worse cycle this time. Who knows? Numbers aren't looking great, although they can change. But. But Talarico is far less talented than Beto ever was. He is so much more gross and slimy and fake. And again, I'm comparing him to one of the fakest candidates in history. So, no, I think Paxton wins by 5, 6, 7, 8. Somewhere in that neighborhood.
- [60:16]
Charlie Kirk
Okay, I love that. I love that estimation because I think it's accurate. I think it's accurate. Stay right there, Sean. I got. We got another segment with you. We're going to go into the sassy Massey debate. You would not believe our emails, how varied they are.
- [60:32]
Blake
Some people thought we would say we're in the tank for Massey, we're in the tank for Trump is just.
- [60:37]
Charlie Kirk
I can't. I can't make heads or tails out of what the audience is thinking that we're doing. But anyways, I want to tell you about blackout coffee. I got my blackout coffee right here in the mug right now. It's one of the. My favorite reasons of being in the studio for more. There's multiple reasons why I love doing the show from the studio, not on the road, but one of them is that I got my supply of blackout coffee. You Got to check it out. This is not some corporate behemoth that, you know, you know, gives you burnt coffee and charge you $88 for a Frappuccino or something. No, this is like real coffee. Morning awakening. You got brutal awakening. Morning reaper, 1776, dark rose. So much more. You can also sign up for subscription. And then it comes to your door. You get coffee rewards. You get free coffee, free shipping. So check out blackout coffee.com kirk blackoutcoffee.com Kirk, get your blackout coffee today and sign up for that subscription. You're not gonna, you're not gonna regret it. I can almost get that out. We'll be right back with Sean Davis. Stay right there. All right, we are back at the Charlie Kirk show in the Y Refi studios. And I want to tell you about why Refi. First of all, first of all, we've gotten so much great feedback when we had Lane, who is the chief investment officer from Y Refi, in the studio and he broke it all down. All your questions asked or answered? Question, asked and answered. That's the expression. And I want to tell you guys about why Refi. They are amazing, amazing people. Great patriots. They love this country. They are capitalists, which has become a bad and naughty word in certain parts of this country, which is a dang shame. But they have provided a solution to the student loan problem and they in turn have given an opportunity to investors to make a handsome profit helping solve a huge, huge problem in this country. So if you are an accredited investor, I encourage you, check them out. Go ahead and scan that QR code. Just get started right now. And you can earn up to 10.25%. So if you sign up for the five year investment, you can earn 10.25% interest. That interest rate is 50 fixed. You can spread your investment from one to five years and you can to best suit your needs. Your interest is calculated daily. It's paid out monthly. They give you the option to take that interest off the board as profit or reinvest it in the vehicle, whatever you choose. And they even make it automatic. If you so choose, you could take the interest income that you're earning and give it to a local charity, a local church, give it to Turning Point usa, whatever you want to do with it. They make that built into the dashboard so you have maximum transparency, flexibility and optionality. That's how they do business. For more information, call them at 877-80-Invest or visit them online at invest y refi. The number in the URL is right there. On your screen for complete details. Make sure to review the private placement memorandum and scan this QR code to view the disclosures at your leisure. Why refi investing in America's future? All right, Sean, now is the time. We're going to get into the sassy Massie race that is captivating the conservative movement and then beyond. Actually, I did a little research on this yesterday, Sean, and it's about 5% of Massie's war chest. He's raised a lot of money in this race, is coming from Kentuckians. The rest is coming from California, Florida, Texas. There's a big libertarian movement that tends to throw in behind their candidates when they're running. And so I think we're seeing a lot of that happen. But there's also been a lot of money spent against him. A lot of PACs, a lot of pro Israel packs, not necessarily foreign money. I don't think it is. It's Americans that support Israel, whatever, that they're. They're supporting gin. So what are you looking at when you see this race? How do you size it up and who's going to win?
- [64:27]
Sean Davis
Yeah, great question. If. If you made me bet, if I were a betting man, which I'm not, I. I think I would put my money on Golre. You know, I. Odds wise, he seems to be like a 60, 40 favorite, maybe 55, 45. It's a weird race. And, you know, you said heading into break that your. Your listener feedback has been all over the place. I kind of feel like I'm personally representative of that because I like Massey, and also he drives me nuts. And on some areas, I think he's really, really good. And on some areas, I think he's a total phony and fake. And then I look at his opponent, and he seems like kind of just. Just a thumb to me, like I don't know what he's got going on. He's there.
- [65:14]
Charlie Kirk
He's there. Yeah.
- [65:16]
Sean Davis
I don't know what else is going on. You know, he's got Trump's endorsement, which is not nothing. That's huge. And I look at this race, and it almost seems to me to be emblematic of a lot of the fissures that we're seeing developing in the Republican Party now. I don't know if it's driven by how the Epstein stuff was handling by the Iran war, but we had this massive coalition, a historic coalition, in 2024 that elected Trump in overwhelming margins. He won every swing state, he won the popular vote, and then now we're Less than two years later, and we seem very fractured and, you know, different factions are all over the place. And I just feel like this race is a microcosm of what's happening within the Republican Party. And I kind of wish we could heal those fractures, get back to all the things that we agree on and instead of fighting over the little things we disagree on. And so I think the race just makes me sad, honestly.
- [66:05]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, I think that's well put. I feel the same. I mean, I was very clear yesterday. I like him on Maha, I like him on war, like him on the budget. I think he got over his skis a little bit on Epstein. Blake, I think he could even like more.
- [66:18]
Blake
He could fight, I think, for more transparency on that. But instead he's openly just said, oh, you know, I agree with my party, except when they're protecting pedophiles. He's throwing the really pushing this whole narrative that aligns with lunatics and also the far left that, oh, there's this Epstein class, they're trafficking all these kids. It's not a thing that is. It's not one. It's not true. But it's also just incredibly reckless and it's blowing everything up.
- [66:45]
Charlie Kirk
So this is very interesting. President Trump has chimed in again, but. And we've seen him chime in on the Massey topic. He's very, very adamant about it. We know that. But hegseth chimed in SOP4, because after you've led men in life and death situations, the games that are played inside the Beltway start looking pretty small. Now contrast that with what we've gotten from Tom Massey. At some point, being against everything becomes an excuse for accomplishing nothing. At some point, constant obstruction is not leadership leadership.
- [67:21]
Sean Davis
It's just commentary.
- [67:22]
Charlie Kirk
It's obstruction. President Trump does not need more people in Washington who are trying to make a point, especially from his own party.
- [67:32]
Tyler Boyer
He needs people willing to help him
- [67:35]
Charlie Kirk
win, to vote with him when it matters the most. All right, so that is noteworthy. You also had Stephen Miller donning a MAGA cap, which the guy is MAGA as it comes, but I don't think I've ever seen him, you know, wearing an actual MAGA hat. And, you know, he's space basically going after the fact that he voted no on the one big beautiful bill, which is the signature border bill, ice, Border patrol, mass deportations. He claims he chose illegals, left wing NGOs and refugee industrial complex over you, your family and your kids. Okay, here's my concern. So obviously the Trump administration's full Force. My concern is that the kids like Massie. So at Turning Point, we're always talking to the younger voters, college kids, they like Massie. And what I'm most concerned is that the fissure is really becoming a generational. Charlie was extraordinarily worried about this with Operation Midnight Hammer, with the Epstein stuff. He saw the writing on the wall that has continued to play out, and honestly, the ends are getting further apart.
- [68:34]
Blake
He has punk energy.
- [68:36]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, he does have. So how do we. I mean, this is why I'm saying, like, if Massey wins, I'm going to be okay with it. If Gallerain wins, I'm going to be okay with it. Either way, I'm like you. I just want the coalition together. Final minute, Sean.
- [68:48]
Sean Davis
Yeah, it's the fracture there that I find worrisome, and it is very real. I think if you looked at the poll numbers in that state, Basically everyone under 40 was overwhelmingly for Massie, and then everyone above was overwhelmingly against him. It's interesting. This isn't the first time he and Trump have gone toe to toe. It happened in 2020 as well because Massey was very much not a fan of the COVID stuff, to Massey's credit. And Massey swatted away that primary challenge very easily. But it feels like it's different this time around, that it's not purely issues based, that it's a lot of personality based and that. Personally, I think the thing that I find most annoying on the Massey side is the guy never mentioned Epstein before 2025. I think he tweeted about it three times. Trump gets in and magically, overnight, it's the most important thing he cares about. That just looks fake to me. It looks like clout chasing and podcast chasing.
- [69:50]
Charlie Kirk
But.
- [69:50]
Sean Davis
But I agree with you. It's this fissure between the old and the new and the old and young that makes this a real problem for the right.
- [69:57]
Charlie Kirk
Sean, great analysis. Really interesting point you just made. Check out the Federalists. They are the best. Sean, we appreciate you, man. We'll see you soon. Tyler Boyer joins us next. Races to Watch.
- [70:18]
Jay Town
Speaking the truth.
- [70:19]
Charlie Kirk
No one else has the guts to say the Charlie Kirk Show. All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We got Tyler Boyer in studio COO of Turning Point Action. We're doing an action oriented political hour. So we just had Shawn Davis and that was important, important. Talking about Massey, talking about the Cornyn Paxton thing. And then we're going to go over the races to watch the, the, the races in the country that we want to pour all of our attention and energy into. It's going to reveal that in just a second. So don't go anywhere. Don't go. It's a very important segment we're about to do. First, I want to tell you about Noble Gold. Noblegold investments.com Kirk noblegold investments.com Kirk we just had Colin in the office last Friday. Didn't ask us anything about finances and such. Was an amazing hour. Got a lot of great feedback from you guys on it. And he told me if you call the call in number, we got to get this number up on the screen. I told myself I was going to do this. We will do this. But I'll tell it to you out loud. So write it down. If you call them and say the Charlie Kirk show sent you, they've got a special hookup for you. That's all I can tell you. They're going to take special care of this audience. So call them 877-646-534-7877-6465347 or visit them online. It also works. Noblegoldinvestments.com Kirk so they're going to do something special for this audience. If you need precious metal, gold, silver, all that stuff, here's what else I will say. We've got a new Fed chairman that's getting, I believe Friday he's getting, he's in place. He's already, it's already been selected. It's all done. But Friday he takes over. So there's going to be a lot of changes and transformation that are happening at the Fed with the balance sheet of the federal government, that sort of thing. It's going to change the gold environment. So you're going to want to talk to Colin and the team over at Noble Gold. So again, one more time with that number. Say the Charlie Kirk show sent you and they're going to hook you up. 8776-465347-87646-5347 Tell them the Charlie Cook show sent you. Let Colin hook you guys up. All right. Without further ado, Tyler One of the driving forces of the show when Charlie was here, we want to keep it going, is that we give the audience the goal, the perspective, the mission. The mission needs to be very, very expressly clear. And you've put together a list of the most important races in the country to keep control of the house, to build towards 20, 28. Okay, so that's the setup. Here's the payoff. Give us the list. What's the first race that you're watching on your, on your list here.
- [72:55]
Tyler Boyer
Well, first off, today is a big day. Obviously the packs, the news, that was great. It's a huge shift in the movement and this is why the right has to fight and has to actually take ground. We talked about this all the time with Charlie is that we have to take, we have to be on the offense, we have to take ground, we have to be fighting. And right now no one is talking enough about where we kill multiple birds with one stone, how the left views everything. They look at the presidential election, they work their way backward. They invest as heavily as possible into the swing states and then the swing districts that help them keep the House, that win the Senate and then other key races. So we'll start from the top. We've been talking endlessly about the Arizona governor's race. Arizona so critical for three major reasons. Number one, you have one of the easiest flips back for a Republican governor race, meaning that we have Biggs, Andy Biggs to take out one of the weakest governors in the country. And Katie Hobbs who refuses to debate, hasn't debated in, in over 2500 days.
- [74:05]
Charlie Kirk
Really?
- [74:06]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. She's a total mess if you've ever heard our high pitched voice. But in addition to that, and the obvious is there is Arizona is the most critical state to win in 2028. If Republicans lose Arizona, over two thirds of all of our chances to win the presidency go out the window.
- [74:24]
Charlie Kirk
Explain that what you're saying there, because I've heard you say that stat. So, so you're basically breaking down that there's multiple different routes to get to 270 and 2/3 of them require Arizona to work.
- [74:36]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. So for our, our listeners that are new, it takes two hundred and seventy electoral college votes to win the presidency. There's only so many combinations that can happen. More than 2/3 of all the combinations require you to win Arizona. So losing Arizona means you lose statistically the presidency in 2028. So setting ourselves up in 2026 to win in 2028 is hugely important. Another really important piece to this is that two of the arguable 15 or 16, depending upon who you listen to, swing districts for House, for the House of Representatives are in Arizona.
- [75:14]
Blake
We're one of the only states that has swing districts at this point. So we're one state redrawing its maps.
- [75:18]
Tyler Boyer
We're not only the one of the only ones that has one, we have two. And we only have nine congressional districts. So we have the highest per capita number of swing districts of any State.
- [75:30]
Charlie Kirk
Okay, so we're a swing state.
- [75:31]
Tyler Boyer
We gotta win for 20, 28. And we have two. So the two in Arizona that are super important. One is vacated by David Schweiker, who's running a horrible race against Andy Biggs. He's losing by about 50, but he's vacated.
- [75:42]
Charlie Kirk
So he's off the table.
- [75:43]
Tyler Boyer
He's out. He's. He's struggled. He had some really bad. Really bad things happened in the news. We won't get into it, but, you know, people are kind of happy to be done with him. Jay Feely, who was the kicker for the Cardinals, is running in that district. Joe Chaplik, who has been on the Freedom Caucus in Arizona at the state level, is running in that district. And so you have a them duking it out for the primary, and then you got to win and keep that seat. The second is Juan Siskamani. So Juan doesn't have a primary. He's running against one of the toughest Democrats, I think, in the country. In his district covers kind of Pinal County. So where Mark Lamb is from. Sheriff Mark Lamb, where he's the sheriff, all the way down to Tucson and kind of the northern area of Tucson, which is not.
- [76:30]
Charlie Kirk
Not MAGA country so much. Yeah.
- [76:33]
Tyler Boyer
I mean, look, the outside Arizona is kind of a funny place where it's either it's deep, deep, dark blue, it's kind of radically blue, or in the deep areas, or it's radically red. And so the tough part is, is Juan says Comani is kind of comes from the more moderate realm, and so he attracts some people away from the moderate left, if you can, if you'll say that. But he has a beautiful family. Awesome. But, you know, parts of his district are pretty deep red, and so you have to. You have to work really hard to get all the votes.
- [77:05]
Charlie Kirk
Like, is it like an R1, R5?
- [77:08]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, depending upon how you look at it, we'll call it. We'll round up to R plus 5.
- [77:13]
Charlie Kirk
Okay.
- [77:13]
Tyler Boyer
But some make the argument it's basically
- [77:15]
Charlie Kirk
a R plus 1, and it's basically a 50. 50 in a midterm.
- [77:19]
Tyler Boyer
And in Arizona one, the one David Schweikart's leaving is. Is in Most ratings, is R plus 1 or in a dead even. It's 50. 50.
- [77:27]
Charlie Kirk
That's like the Scottsdale one.
- [77:29]
Tyler Boyer
So. So Kamala actually won that district. David Schweikart won that district.
- [77:34]
Charlie Kirk
Okay, so J.J. feely's got a. Got a. Got a challenge. Got a challenge. That's a Scottsdale, though, right?
- [77:40]
Tyler Boyer
Yep. So Scottsdale. You know, Jay Feely's been endorsed by all the major sports, sports elites across the state of Arizona, many of the members of the 2001 championship team for the World Series team for the Arizona Diamondbacks, many of the members, obviously, of the Cardinals organization.
- [78:03]
Charlie Kirk
We've endorsed him.
- [78:04]
Tyler Boyer
The Cardinals have actually just moved their headquarters from Tempe and they're building one in Scottsdale, which would be in that district. So it's. It's kind of. It's relevant. The other races to watch, and these ones are. I'm going to kind of. Kind of whip through these really quickly. Derek Van Orden, who is running to protect his seat on the western side of Wisconsin, okay, is. Is in a getting attacked, like crazy, incredibly important race to win. If I think if we lose this race, many other races will lose in the country. So this is one of those where
- [78:39]
Charlie Kirk
it's kind of like a bellwether race.
- [78:40]
Tyler Boyer
I'm calling it a bellwether because we need Derek Van Orden to stay in place. He's a strong candidate, has a decent amount of money, but conservatives have to show up in the rurals of Wisconsin.
- [78:52]
Charlie Kirk
Is he. Is he more rock rib conservative? More moderate candidate?
- [78:56]
Tyler Boyer
More moderate. Okay, a more moderate. But again, I think right now, what you're seeing in Wisconsin is the moderates and conservatives all working together. Tom Tiffany is. Is the nominee effectively for governor, who is a Freedom Caucus member. You have Derek Van Orden, who is not. He's more moderate, but everybody's working together.
- [79:16]
Charlie Kirk
But he hasn't been a problem. Right. He's not like. He's not like a bacon or something out of, you know. No, yeah.
- [79:23]
Tyler Boyer
No, but not by any means. He's been awesome and he works together. He's worked really well with us, and we've been promoting him like, like crazy. I want to give a shout out. Not in every state does Americans for Prosperity do a lot of good work. Right now they're doing a lot of good work with Tom Tiffany and Derek Van Orden. And so we like to see that. That's really. That's really positive. All right, next one Pennsylvania, Scott Perry, member, the Freedom Caucus.
- [79:48]
Charlie Kirk
He's great.
- [79:48]
Tyler Boyer
He is one of the guys that we absolutely have to defend. He typically doesn't get a ton of outside support, but absolutely, absolutely have to defend his. His seat in Pennsylvania. If there's any.
- [79:58]
Charlie Kirk
Pennsylvania 10.
- [79:59]
Jay Town
If there's.
- [80:00]
Tyler Boyer
Out of. There's very few people I say give direct money to. Scott Perry is one of those people that you want to send money to. And to help he's a phenomenal. He's like Andy Biggs in Pennsylvania.
- [80:10]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah. And we're going to get all these guys on the show. We'll do this in quick work so you guys can get to know them. But that Scott Perry is a phenomenal patriot. Next one.
- [80:19]
Tyler Boyer
And I would do with two races, Iowa Marionette Miller Meeks, who won infamously her race by just a handful of votes. I think it was six votes. Yeah, we helped, we this was during COVID We actually showed up with students for Trump, knocked doors for her and she barely won. And the argument was as if we didn't show up because nobody else was showing up. She may not have won originally. We've got to retain her seat. Zach Nunn, who's a younger guy is as awesome. We got to protect his seat in Iowa. So those two races again, a little bit more similar to Derek Van or a little bit more moderate but they've been right there with voting with the president voting with the Republican conference and have done a great job. Michigan 7, this was actually a flip from last election. So this is a scary one. So where Derek Van Orden is kind of a bellwether. Michigan 7 is kind of a bellwether for the Democrats if they don't win this one back. This was Slotkin's seat. So Slotkin left to run for Senate and her district flipped to the Republicans with Tom Barrett. Tom Barrett's a young guy, younger guy, got to protect him. He's kind of in the same camp again as Derek Van Orden, a little bit more moderate. But that's a district that swung from kind of radical leftist to moderate, moderate Republican. And if you lose this one, what's
- [81:39]
Charlie Kirk
the makeup of Michigan 7? Where's it? Where's it?
- [81:42]
Tyler Boyer
So it actually so Trump won this district. So this is kind of the opposite of AZ01 where Trump won this district. But and Republicans have won this district in the past and it's kind of it's tilt Republican that is a dead heat district.
- [81:56]
Blake
But every single race back in forth
- [81:58]
Tyler Boyer
it goes back and forth, back and forth. Lastly, I'll kind of touch upon this Marcy Captor, it looks like is going to have the toughest time retaining her seat. She's a Democrat in Ohio 9. This is a really important seat because this is a border.
- [82:14]
Charlie Kirk
Marcy Chapter is a Democrat.
- [82:16]
Tyler Boyer
Democrat. Derek Marin is the Republican who ran last time.
- [82:19]
Charlie Kirk
That's the, that's the Dem. We want her out.
- [82:21]
Tyler Boyer
Got to get her out. She's in Ohio 9. Derek Marin is the Republican he ran last time barely lost, and we have to get him the win.
- [82:31]
Charlie Kirk
Oh, so this is his second time running then. So he's got some good name id, built up some momentum. I actually love those races where a guy barely, you know, loses, comes back, tries it again and wins. Yeah.
- [82:41]
Tyler Boyer
And so he has a real good shot at this. The last two things I'll mention real quickly before we go to break. New Hampshire Senate Johnson New got endorsed by President Trump, has a real chance. This is a under the radar, fly under the radar race that we're working really hard in.
- [82:56]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah. All right, we're gonna. Let's revisit that when we get back from break. We'll be right back on the Races to Watch with Tyler Boyer. Don't go anywhere. All right, more with Tyler Boyer here. Races to Watch. We're monitoring the vice versa President's remarks right now on the Iranian negotiation that's ongoing. We'll see what he says there. Real quick here, though, this Sununu race, I want to get some clarity on this because, you know, we were talking with Brown before what happened. What was the backstory there that you can share?
- [83:40]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. I mean, look, so Scott Brown, who was former US Senator from Massachusetts. From Massachusetts. He ran about a decade ago in New Hampshire.
- [83:50]
Charlie Kirk
He took over Ted Kennedy's seat. Originally in Massachusetts. It was a big deal where they broke the 60 vote super majority that they had. Basically, you know, the filibuster.
- [84:01]
Blake
It's hard to remain a career Republican in Massachusetts. Yeah, exactly.
- [84:03]
Charlie Kirk
But it was a huge, huge story. Anyways.
- [84:06]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, he moved to New Hampshire. You know, he lived right on the border, moved to New Hampshire, ran about 10 years ago, lost just barely and has kind of been working towards running again this year. We have. Scott's incredible. I think he's a good conservative.
- [84:23]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, the, the grassroots really likes him.
- [84:25]
Tyler Boyer
The grassroots likes him. The president came in and endorsed Sununu not that long ago. And Sununu, to his credit, is. It's not Governor Sununu.
- [84:38]
Charlie Kirk
Right.
- [84:38]
Tyler Boyer
Who's more moderate. He's the brother of Governor Sununu, who is arguably more conservative. But, you know, to that point, it's like all the polling is showing, particularly after the president's endorsement, plus the money.
- [84:51]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah.
- [84:51]
Tyler Boyer
Plus the Sununu name ID is that they're there. So turning point just recently. Yeah. We had had conversations. I think we have a good relationship with Scott Brown. I hope Scott stays in the fight because I think that he would make a really great, you know, next time candidate. And that's a tough question.
- [85:08]
Charlie Kirk
Well, you were behind this. I, I remember you were the one that set up all the meetings and, you know, that's when I got to meet Scott and Charlie met Scott. You were behind all that. So I understand your personal, you know, affection for the guy and belief in his political future. So, you know. But Sununu, to your point, the polling is radically in favor of Sununu, especially after Trump's endorsement. At the end of the day, you have to make a calculation. New Hampshire is a state that has not sent anybody to D.C. from the conservative side in a while. But on the state level, they tend to be conservative.
- [85:41]
Tyler Boyer
That's right.
- [85:41]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah. So we gotta flip the script and get a conservative there.
- [85:46]
Tyler Boyer
It's the hallmark, Democrats taking advantage of Republicans by targeting, mass, targeting the state, both on the redistricting front, which is what they did to begin with in the beginning of this decade with Congress and then overlaying tons of money in Senate races. And so you have a republic, arguably Republican state. And New Hampshire is very similar to Arizona, where it's really close, really close. You come here and it feels Republican. There's a lot of Republican things that go on here, like, you know, permitless, concealed carry, school choice, which they call constitutional.
- [86:24]
Charlie Kirk
It feels very rich.
- [86:25]
Tyler Boyer
School choice. You have, it's, it's very suburban, all those things. But again, the Democrats are smart. They, they take advantage of redistricting similar to New Hampshire. Arizona is the same. You get a lot of swing districts. So they flood a lot of money in for the congressional races. You flood a lot of simultaneous money into the Senate races. And guess what happens? They win federal races while everything else goes red.
- [86:49]
Blake
Well, it's also, New Hampshire's a, it's a very swingy state. It's one of the white, it's one of the whitest states. And so white voters are just more swing voter. They go back and forth more often. It's, it's just an odd state. It's, it's, you get this with Iowa a bit too. It's got the annual presidential primary race, means the big candidates are there all of the time. And a friend of mine who's experienced in this says as a result, they like politics a little bit too much sometimes. And so that, that can affect how things go. It does make them again, it contributes to them being swingy about things, getting really invested in it. It's an odd state. It's probably one of the most unusual states.
- [87:27]
Charlie Kirk
Again, you can't underscore this enough. There's more registered Republicans in that state than there are Democrats. And it's the independents that really swing it back one way or the other. How are we seeing the independent vote play out right now, Tyler? Is there any initial polling? Can you see that they're more in Sununu's camp or what are you seeing on the independent front?
- [87:49]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. So this is a reminder again, and we'll talk a lot more about this through the election cycle. Midterms in particular, you have the independent vote is, it's fickle. So you poll, you pull, you poll. But remember, turnout with independents is far lower, substantially lower in a midterm than it is in a presidential. So a presidential. You see much higher levels of turnout, particularly amongst independents. And there's this, there's this fallacy of this, like every independent voter is a swing voter for some reason on the Republican side, we think of independence of like, oh, well, we, we can, we get to win those people every time. The reality is that most independents either categorize themselves as a pretty much all the time Democrat or pretty much all the time Republican voter. And then there's a small fraction of those independent voters that are swing voters.
- [88:39]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah.
- [88:39]
Tyler Boyer
Now in midterms, those true swing voters are even less likely to show up. Right. So, you know, and again, you don't want to dismiss them, you want to work on that pocket. But you have to substantially look at each state and what do they make up? Are they, are they 5% of the vote? Are they 3% of the vote? Are they 8% of the vote? In most cases it's sub 10%.
- [89:02]
Charlie Kirk
Really? Even in a state like New Hampshire that has more registered independents than either party?
- [89:07]
Ken Paxton
Yeah.
- [89:07]
Tyler Boyer
I mean, look, Arizona is the same right now you have more independents here than any of either party. And states like North Carolina, you have tons of independents. But again, they're far less likely to show up. And you have to keep in mind there's a factor of independents who are not Republican because they feel they're too conservative for the Republican Party. There's a faction of Democrats that leave become independents because they feel the party is too moderate for them. And so, and in these states, again, you have an entire ecosystem for Republicans within New Hampshire that kind of view themselves as more libertarian. And so there are libertarian leaning Republicans that get swayed in certain ways. And I would say the Massie race today actually takes a huge toll on a state like New Hampshire where there will be some negativity if Massey Massey loses.
- [90:06]
Blake
We saw that. We had an email from someone who said if, if Massie loses. They plan to vote Democrat this fall, which we think is fundamentally deranged. That is an insane point of view to take when you see what the actual Democrat agenda is for America. But it is a take we've seen. We can't hide the fact that that is occurring.
- [90:24]
Charlie Kirk
Well, I just find it fascinating as well that in New Hampshire, like Arizona, you basically, let's just say you have a third, a third, a third registered, a third Republican, third Democrat, third Independent. But it only accounts for about 10% of the vote.
- [90:37]
Ken Paxton
Vote.
- [90:37]
Charlie Kirk
Yep. That's wild.
- [90:39]
Tyler Boyer
Well, and again, it depends. It's, it kind of depends on the whole thing. Well, my point was it's about 10% or less of the independents are swing. Does that make sense?
- [90:52]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah.
- [90:52]
Tyler Boyer
Not that they make up 10 of the of the vote, but in most states, you know, depending upon what you look at, it's, it's, it's sub 25%.
- [91:01]
Charlie Kirk
Okay.
- [91:02]
Tyler Boyer
Except 20% in some cases of the turnout because the turnout is just so bad because they're not as engaged.
- [91:08]
Charlie Kirk
Well, midterms, they may not get an early ballot.
- [91:10]
Tyler Boyer
They may not because they didn't vote in the primary. A lot of the things that they do to make them habitual voters.
- [91:17]
Charlie Kirk
We're going to bring in all these candidates on the show in the coming weeks and we want you to support them. They are the must watch races and in many cases, we're going to tell you support directly to their campaign, send the money directly to their campaign. We'll see you guys tomorrow. Until then,