The Charlie Kirk Show, January 14, 2026

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show — Real America’s Voice (January 14, 2026)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show centers on debates about immigration enforcement, particularly ICE operations and protests in Minneapolis and other U.S. cities. The show scrutinizes the cultural dynamics of activism—including affluent white female liberals ("AWFLs") at protests—the escalation of anti-ICE rhetoric, and the role of social media. The episode also delves into the psychological underpinnings of contemporary political activism, U.S. policy on Greenland, the ongoing crisis in Iran, rampant government fraud (especially SBA loan fraud), and Trump administration strategies for economic revitalization and fraud mitigation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Protests Against ICE and the "AWFL" Phenomenon

00:25–14:03

• Current Events: The hosts discuss protests against ICE deportations in Minneapolis and other cities, emphasizing the involvement of "affluent white female liberals" or "AWFLs."

  • Definition:
    • "An awful is a slang term... short for affluent white female liberal — AWFL. But you pronounce it awful for, well, pretty clear reasons." (Blake, 07:01)
    • "They don’t need to be ultra rich, but generally at least middle class, reasonably secure... They’re the stereotypical, intense, you-put-up-in-this-house-we-believe-signs." (Blake, 07:16)
  • Motivations: These individuals participate in activism—BLM, anti-ICE protests, etc.—often from a secure, insular existence.

• Racial Dynamics & "White Privilege":

  • Protest organizers intentionally use white women to confront ICE, believing police are less likely to use force on them.
    • "Because black people... can’t put our bodies on the line because cops will shoot us... white women have been taking the lead." (Andrew, 09:56)

• Extremism and Dehumanization:

  • Some rhetoric on social media has escalated to open calls for violence against ICE agents, using terms like "Gestapo" and "Nazis."
    • "You can go on Blue Sky and find people saying 'shoot ICE on sight. They are literal Gestapo agents.'" (Blake, 12:09)
    • "The big lesson from Minneapolis is that you gotta get your car worked on so you can drive faster over an ICE agent." (Kelly Loeffler, quoting TikTok, 13:17)

• Media Influence:
  "To Blake’s point, if Minneapolis wants raids and wants street raids and abductions or apprehensions on the streets to stop, then maybe they should coordinate with ICE." (Charlie Kirk, 14:03)

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2. Media, Narratives, & Public Perception

16:22–23:24

• Escalating Rhetoric Online:

  • "I don't really care about the consequences anymore. I don't care. We need to kill these people..." (Clip 344, played by Blake, 16:40)
  • Daily Beast article: Doxxing ICE agents via "ICE List" website, putting federal officers and families at risk.

• Effect of Dehumanizing Language:
  "They are intentionally dehumanizing conservatives... in order to justify their murder... doxing them, harassing them, attacking their family." (Charlie Kirk, 18:37)

• Joe Rogan Critique:

  • Joe Rogan questioned the morality and method of ICE raids; hosts disagreed, defending enforcement and citing deportation statistics.
  • "Out of the 650,000 forceful deportations, approximately 170... were mistaken identities... That is a success rate of over 99.9%." (Charlie Kirk, 20:51)

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3. Deep Dive: The Psychology of Activism & Mental Health

26:00–38:42

• Guest: Jonathan Alpert, Psychotherapist & Author ("Therapy Nation")

  • Examines what drives protesters to risk their lives against law enforcement.
  • "We have grievance culture that has just run wild. People villainize a person... and feel it is absolutely their right to take action." (Alpert, 27:52)
  • "It’s not an actual diagnosis, but about 75% of my patients are impacted by something like Trump Derangement Syndrome." (Alpert, 38:00)

• Social Media’s Role:

  • Echo chambers and emotional, not factual, engagement fuel polarization.
    • "They are not looking at facts and data. They’re looking at the situation through the lens of emotion." (Alpert, 33:24)
  • Activism sometimes crosses from agitation to violence due to dehumanizing language.

• Family & Societal Breakdown:

  • Loss of family/community bonds exacerbates obsession with political causes.
    • "Family and friends should be more important than any political figure or political party." (Alpert, 31:59)

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4. Global Affairs: Greenland and Iran

39:12–70:37

a. The Greenland Proposal

39:12–46:41

• Trump’s Plan to Acquire Greenland:
  • U.S. strategic interest for military/ICBM defense and natural resources.
    • "President Trump has become very interested in acquiring Greenland... It is vital for the golden dome, the missile defense shield..." (Blake, 41:56 quoting Trump)
  • Debate whether purchase or independence would be preferable; risks that Russia or China could influence Greenland if U.S. is not involved.

b. Uprising in Iran

52:25–70:37

• Guest: Maya Tusi, Founder, Tusi TV

  • Discusses ongoing mass protests in Iran against the regime; casualty estimates range from 2,500 (official) up to 20,000 (unofficial/leaks).
    • "There was a leak... the direct order, and they believe, they themselves, that it was about 12,000." (Tusi, 53:36)
  • The movement is united behind returning to Iran’s pre-Islamic Republic heritage under Crown Prince Basrah.

• Potential U.S. Action:

  • Tusi requests American support, but not military occupation—a targeted, strategic intervention to paralyze the IRGC and help local forces succeed.
    • "I'm not advocating for the US troops to put boots on the ground. Iranians are not asking that either." (Tusi, 67:25)
  • Stress on correcting the U.S. mistake of backing the Islamic Republic in 1979.
    • "The U.S. government in 79 with Jimmy Carter caused this chaos..." (Tusi, 67:25)

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5. Government Fraud & Small Business Administration (SBA)

73:14–94:14

• In-Studio: Kelly Loeffler, SBA Administrator

  • Role of SBA: Government guarantees on small business loans, supporting local entrepreneurship.

    • "We're providing a government guarantee on commercial loans for your local community banker..." (Loeffler, 74:23)

  • Economic Data: Record exports, low trade deficit, Trump’s tariffs seen as fair trade.

  • Fraud Exposure:

    • Massive SBA loan fraud, especially in Minnesota and among Somali networks.
    • "$1.2 trillion ran through SBA during COVID... our own OIG said about $200 billion was marked as fraudulent." (Loeffler, 79:45)
    • "We're investigating further to see how systemic it is because the level of fraud is almost organized..." (Loeffler, 80:31)

  • 8(a) Program and DEI Critique:

    • "What we've already found is a lot of malfeasance, a lot of fraud. We're going to clean up the program and make sure deserving entrepreneurs get these opportunities." (Loeffler, 88:54)

  • DogE & AI Tools:

    • Discussion about using DogE (data accountability culture) and Palantir’s data tools to root out government waste and fraud.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Blake on “AWFLs”:
  "Most people probably know an awful or two... they tend to have enough free time to get very involved in activism." (07:15–08:12)

• Social Media Rhetoric:
  "You can go on Blue Sky and find people saying shoot ICE on sight. They are literal Gestapo agents." (Blake, 12:09)

• On Political Activism’s Psychological Toll:
  "We have people who are sick, they’re staying up at night, they can’t sleep at night, they're highly anxious..." (Jonathan Alpert, 27:52)

• Charlie Kirk on ICE Enforcement:
  "If these jurisdictions do not want raids... then they would cooperate with ICE. They are actually letting out onto the streets murderers, child abusers, child rapists." (Charlie Kirk, 18:37)

• On SBA Fraud:
  "We're providing a government guarantee on commercial loans for your local community banker... to help that community have flourishing small businesses." (Loeffler, 74:23)
  "We're talking about Somali fraud. We're talking about foreigners coming in again, bilking off the system." (Charlie Kirk, 78:24)

• On Iran:
  "Right now... the Americans should put America first and you should not really get dragged into different wars... I'm not asking for President Trump to come in and take over Iran and force him to change the regime. Simply help the people to finish the job that they want to do." (Maya Tusi, 67:25)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• AWFL & ICE Protest Discussion: 07:00–14:00
• Social Media Extremism & ICE Violence Rhetoric: 12:09–14:00
• Dehumanization & Joe Rogan Critique: 18:37–22:52
• Jonathan Alpert (Therapy Nation) Interview: 27:18–38:42
• Greenland Policy Discussion: 39:12–46:41
• Maya Tusi on Iran: 52:25–70:37
• SBA Fraud & Kelly Loeffler Interview: 73:14–94:14

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Overall Tone & Language

The episode is combative, conservation-leaning, and polemical—strongly critical of the left, mainstream media, and DEI/fraud in government. It blends urgent warnings, satirical tones (“awfuls”), and insider policy discussion, interspersed with guest interviews providing psychological and international perspective.

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Summary Takeaways

• The hosts promote a narrative of escalating leftist extremism around ICE protests—especially the involvement and cultural motivations behind "AWFLs."
• The psychological impact of political polarization and social media activism is deep and potentially dangerous, affecting mental health and family cohesion.
• Internationally, the show pitches for aggressive U.S. action in support of oppressed peoples (e.g., Iran), but with caution against full-scale intervention.
• Domestically, Trump administration officials are pushing hard against fraud, DEI policies, and for trade and economic nationalism.

This detailed episode breakdown preserves the spirit, focus, and quotes of its primary voices, offering a thorough guide for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Andrew]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Charlie Kirk]

The Charlie Kirk show starts now.

[Donald Trump]

Starting February 1st, we're not making any payments to sanctuary cities or states having sanctuary cities because they do everything possible to protect criminals at the expense of American citizens. And it breeds fraud and crime and all of the other problems that come. So we're not making any payment to anybody that supports sanctuary. We have also suspended nearly 8,000 SBA loans, small business association loans to suspected scammers in Minnesota, of which there are many. It's a great state. It was a great state. Now it's getting destroyed by that stupid governor. What a stupid guy he is. But he's a crook. I mean, he's an incompetent governor. He's a crook. He allowed us to go. You can't have, you can't have corruption on a scale that nobody's ever seen before. And you're sitting as a governor and you don't know what's going on. It's impossible. Even though he's a stupid guy. The $200 billion buy in on bonds and mortgages. This will include a ban on large institutional investors buying up single family homes all over the country and making it impossible for to buy a home. And I've also announced that the US government is purchasing $200 billion of mortgage bonds to bring down mortgage rates. And it's had a huge impact. Already started.

[Terrence Bates]

What is that definition for equal protection purposes? What does, what does it mean to.

[Blake]

Be a boy or a girl or a man or a woman?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I think that the underlying enactment, whatever it was, the policy, the law, the would have to, we'd have to have an understanding of how the state or the government was just understanding that term to figure out whether or not someone was excluded. We do not have a definition for the court.

[Terrence Bates]

Well, how can you, how can a court determine whether there's discrimination on the basis of sex without knowing what sex means for equal protection purposes?

[Kelly Loeffler]

I think here we just notice. We basically know that the, that they've identified pursuant to their own statute. Lindsay qualifies as a birth sex male and she's being excluded categorically from the women's teams as the statute. So we're taking the statute's definitions as we find them and we don't dispute them, retaliate in the instance of US Strikes against US assets in the Middle East.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you say to US Service.

[Andrew]

Members about why it's worth the risk.

[Kelly Loeffler]

To intervene in Iran?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, Iran said that the last time I blew him up with the nuclear capability, that which they don't have any longer. So Iran said that the last. They better behave.

[Terrence Bates]

This is what we used to see and why we used to feel superior.

[Jonathan Alpert]

To Russia and to China and to the old Soviet Union because we would.

[Charlie Kirk]

See people picked up on the street.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Like this and those countries for merely protesting.

[Terrence Bates]

Now that is happening to American citizens.

[Jonathan Alpert]

In American neighborhoods, in the suburbs, in America.

[Terrence Bates]

And anybody who believes that there's anything.

[Jonathan Alpert]

American about that, well, they must have just immigrated here from Beijing.

[Terrence Bates]

This looks.

[Charlie Kirk]

This looks like Russia.

[Terrence Bates]

It really does. This looks like something that you would expect in Russia, that protesters. This is happening to protesters, not suspected murderers are rapists.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is what America looks like in 2025 for protesters.

[Terrence Bates]

We always looked at what happened to.

[Blake]

The Soviet Union and looked at what.

[Charlie Kirk]

Happened in Putin's Russia.

[Andrew]

This woman was part of a group of people who they trained to try to be ICE interrupters. And what they try to do is observe what ICE is doing, film them, and try to use their white privilege to be honest. Their mainly white people.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Which is what we asked.

[Andrew]

Which is what we asked them to do. Yeah, because black people, like, we can't get on. We can't put our bodies on the line because cops will shoot us. And so the presumption had been particularly a white woman. Because, remember, part of the rationale for doing this with ICE is to save white women, pristine white women from being ravaged by, you know, criminal brown men. So they. White women have been taking the lead.

[Kelly Loeffler]

All we're learning from this is that you should hit the gas. If they're there, you should. You should run them over. You should run them over with your car, and you should do it quickly before they can shoot you. I. I have to go to my mechanic. I have to get my car fixed so that I can drive faster just in case. This is insane. You. You should hit them. You should hit them.

[Charlie Kirk]

They will say you hit them anyway. Charlie. Every day is a battle for your mind. Raging information coming from every angle with.

[Terrence Bates]

The will to deceive.

[Charlie Kirk]

Fear not. You found the place for truth. The voice of a generation that still has the will to believe in the greatest country in the history of the world. This is the Charlie Kirk Show. Buckle up. Here we go. All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk show. It's January 14, 2026. It's a new year, but the same old tactics are being deployed in the streets of American cities to battle deportations, mass deportations. Something Charlie cared a lot about, something we at the show continue to care a lot About. I believe that deportations and immigration is the single most important issue. There's lots of important issues, but I believe it is the most important issue to fixing the country. It is the switch when flipped, that could fix a number, if not all the ills that we are currently facing. So what is happening right now in the streets of Minneapolis? We have a scourge of tyrannical, often white, affluent ladies, leftist ladies, who are now being used as cannon fodder on the front lines of communist front groups attempting to attack and delegitimize ICE operations in Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Portland, beyond Chicago, New York. And so we have to analyze what is actually happening. How are they going about recruiting this whole crop of women? Often it's men, to be fair, but it is often women, often childless women, often white women that are putting their bodies on the line to impede, obstruct, harass, harangue, and attack law enforcement personnel in the streets of America's cities. So, Blake, the question then is what is an awful? I want to start with our base operating language here so that everybody's on the same page.

[Blake]

So an awful is a slang term. It's probably about a decade old at this point.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Blake]

And it's short for affluent white female liberal awfl. But you pronounce it awful for, well, pretty, pretty clear reasons.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Blake]

And it's a tight, It's a type we see over and over again. We're seeing it in these ICE protests, but you saw it a ton during blm. Most people probably know an awful or two. And it's, it's contained within that. So affluent white female liberal. It's, it's generally. They don't need to be ultra rich, but generally at least middle class, reasonably secure. They're very much the, the stereotypical intense, you know, put up in this house, we believe signs.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Blake]

But they do it with usually within a pretty strong cocoon of security. So, you know, will put like immigrants welcome in their neighborhood that has a pretty low immigrant population that's very secluded from America's. Yeah, they still live in a neighborhood that looks like it's 1958. They, you know, will really hate on police and then live in a suburb that's very far away from anywhere that the police are really needed that much.

[Charlie Kirk]

Correct.

[Blake]

Very militant about, you know, probably spend a lot of too much time on social media. So they get very whipped up on every cause. They change their profile pic for every new thing, every new thing, every new scandal, every, every to do. And they have, they tend to have Enough free time to get very involved in activism. So they go to marches. So 10 years ago they would be. Or 15 years ago they would be marching for gay rights. 10 years ago they'd be getting whipped up for BLM, anti Trump. And you know, today, now they're going around saying that ICE is the Gestapo.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, Nazis. They're referring to themselves as the French Resistance. We've got a lot of stones which the French Resistance obviously was fighting the Nazis. So it's a. This is an MSNBC Now MSN, Ms. now reporter referring to them as this. But they are organized, they are being trained, they are being dispatched in a coordinated effort to harass, harangue, attack ICE officers. They are convinced that they are freedom fighters, that this is the modern day noble, virtuous cause that they have become wrapped up in for righteous reasons. And it's incredible the number of people that they can convince that this is in fact true. And what's wild is you have black women like Joy Reid encouraging white women to put their bodies on the line. Their white bodies on the line. Play cut 316.

[Andrew]

This woman was part of a group of people who they trained to try to be ICE interrupters. And what they try to do is observe what ICE is doing, film them and try to use their white privilege to be honest. They're mainly white people.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Which is what we ask.

[Andrew]

Which is what we ask them to do, right?

[Terrence Bates]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because black people like, we can't get on. We can't put our bodies on the line because cops will shoot us. And so the presumption had been particularly a white woman. Cuz remember, part of the rationale for doing this with ICE is, is to save white women, pristine white women from being ravaged by, you know, criminal brown men. So they, white women have been taking the lead.

[Charlie Kirk]

Gosh. The race lady, Joy Reid, she continues to haunt us from beyond cable news and the nightly broadcast. But why this is important, Blake, is because they are actually encouraging real crazy people to, and I believe this is the entire game, is they're going to say all these crazy things. You've got Jacob Fray saying, get out. You're not welcome here. You're going to have everybody comparing them to Gestapo and Nazis and all of this. And then you're going to have actual crazy people. You shake the tree long enough, some are going to fall out and do crazy stuff that actually are advocating for killing, shooting, ramming, running over ICE agents 327.

[Terrence Bates]

Shame on them. Because we're going to run right over them, aren't we?

[Charlie Kirk]

We are right and we're going to stand up and we're going to fight like hell every single day. Are you read to fight? Yeah. Are you ready to fight? Completely deranged. Off their rocker, off their meds. There's more examples.

[Blake]

We got so chantings besides the point. It's. There was a reporter from the Free Press who has been in Minneapolis and talking to people and he spoke with ICE agents who say that they're having put up a 347 there. He says that these protesters are loosening lug nuts on their car. On their cars. Like when they're in parking lots. They're tracking federal vehicles using air tags. They use whistles to kind of stalk them and just like blow them constantly to be like ISIS here. It's like a constant attempt at harassment of law enforcement, hindrance of law enforcement. And of course we see them blocking roads, ramming attacks on cars and the most extreme outcomes which I don't think awfuls are going to do this. But this is going to be though Tyler Robinson types. There's going to be someone who's whipped up about this. They've read too many posts on Blue sky, seen too many tiktoks and they're mentally unwell and they're going to take a rifle and shoot these guys.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Blake]

And I don't think you can frankly when you just. You can go on Blue sky and find people saying shoot ICE on sight. They are literal Gestapo agents. That's from someone calling herself Lady Rain. She her has an anime avatar that might, that might be a biological male.

[Charlie Kirk]

And we have this 338 through 341. Just roll through some of these literally just organize and shoot ICE on sight. They are literal Gestapo agents. Go to the next one. I'm sorry. Alliance Against Gun Violence. But with the recent ICE murder and shootings I think police organizations across the country should have every officer shoot ICE agents on site.

[Blake]

I've seen way too many vids of ICE Nazis brutalizing us, murdering us. It would not surprise me to see Americans randomly shoot ICE Nazis on site in an effort of self protection, survival.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. I mean and here you go. There's another, another example. 328 this is a TikTok leftist saying. The big lesson from Minneapolis is that you got to get your car worked on so you can drive faster over an ICE agent.

[Kelly Loeffler]

328 all we're learning from this is that you should hit the gas if they're there. You should, you should run them over. You should run them over with Your car. And you should do it quickly before they can shoot you. I, I have to go to my mechanic. I have to get my car fixed so that I can drive faster just in case. This is insane. You, you should hit them. You should hit them.

[Charlie Kirk]

They will say you hit them anyway.

[Kelly Loeffler]

You should hit them with your car.

[Blake]

The best way to not have a bad interaction with ICE is to just let ICE do the job. Better yet, let ICE go to jails to arrest. To arrest the illegal. Eagles who end up there, go to prisons to arrest the illegals who wind up there, go to court to arrest the illegals who wind up there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, now we're gonna.

[Blake]

And then you don't need to do raids in random neighborhoods.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I want to talk about this because Joe Rogan has gotten into the fray basically saying that these raids are too extreme, they're too brutal. And I couldn't disagree more with Joe Rogan. And to Blake's point, if Minneapolis wants raids and wants street raids and, you know, abductions or apprehensions on the streets to stop, then maybe they should coordinate with ice. Maybe they should coordinate with DHS when they actually pull somebody over, arrest them, put them in jail. You could do that securely, safely. But they were refusing to do that. They would rather release the criminals back onto the streets of Minneapolis and that's what these women are fighting for. More on this war in, on the streets in Minneapolis when we get right back.

[Donald Trump]

All right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Private student loan debt in the United states totals about $300 billion. I was waiting for you to chime in there.

[Blake]

I've done it a few times.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just want to see if you actually had the number down pat. 45 billion of that is labeled as distress. Why Refi refinances distressed or defaulted private student loans that others will not touch. They provide you with a custom loan payment based on your ability to pay. Why? Refi is not a debt settlement company. And they work with each borrower individually tailoring each loan to each borrower specific situation. So that is the key. They're going to work with you to custom tailor a solution. If you find yourself in private student loan debt with distressed or default to private student loans, they will work with you even if your credit is not great, if it's bad. And they will do a three minute rate check that has no credit impact. So you're going to want to check that out. They'll even let you skip a payment every six months up to 12 times without penalty. You don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements. On your kitchen table anymore. Just call 888-REFI 34, 888-Y-REFI 34, or log on to why refi.com yrefy.com may not be available in all 50 states, but you owe it to yourself to check it out. We tell you about WHY Refi almost daily, so you're going to want to check it out because it's that good. They support the work that we do here. They support Turning point. Great patriots, great people. All right, so, Blake, you had a clip that you wanted to throw too?

[Blake]

Yeah. So we were just.

[Jonathan Alpert]

We.

[Blake]

We were showing all of the escalating, insane rhetoric, but this one is really, really deranged. And it's a good example of social media just makes people feel. People can run their mouths in ways that I don't think they did before. Let's play clip 344.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't really care about the consequences anymore. I don't care. We need to kill these people. We've had three people die in like 72 hours, and we've had over almost 30 die in the since. In the last year to a group of quote unquote law enforcement that has basically just buffed up mall cops, right? Who are gun triggering, happy, proud boys. Let's call them what they are. It's the proud boys. Why do you think we didn't hear about them? They're Nazis. Peyton said it best. They're Nazis. And the only way to stop this, let's be honest, is going to be to get violent. We got to get violent people. And I'm tired of denying it, and I'm tired of y' all being about it. Grow up. We're not gonna get through this holding hands. Peaceful protest only works if your enemy has a moral obligation to listen to it. They have none. You guys are. Are sitting there holding up signs and.

[Blake]

Saying, oh, I'm mad at you.

[Kelly Loeffler]

You're pathetic. Burn something.

[Blake]

Burn something. Shoot something. And it's just clear what they want. There's also this article that happened yesterday in the Daily Beast that had me really angry from a guy, Tom Latcham, in case someone can, I don't know, go harass that guy. It's personal details of thousands of border and border patrol and ICE goons allegedly leaked in huge data breach. That's the headline. ICE Goons. And it's all about. There's some foreign website. I believe it's operated out of the Netherlands, and it's called ICE List. And it's literally just like a wiki style database. Of every single person who works at DHS that they can get information on. And they get their names, they're getting their phone numbers, they're using that to cross reference and get their addresses. The goal is to get as much information as possible about every single person who works with ICE and with the Border Patrol for. So that someone can watch that video, get all worked up, find the person at ICE who lives closest to them, go there and shoot them in the face.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, and this is really why you're getting at the core of why this is important. I mean, we saw this with Charlie, right, that the left used dehumanizing language about Charlie's a Nazi, Charlie's a racist, Charlie's a bigot, Charlie's a hater. You know, even Tyler Robinson, there's just some hate you can't negotiate out or something like that. Right. That was a statement. And that's what they're doing here, is they're intentionally dehumanizing conservatives. They're intentionally dehumanizing ICE agents, law enforcement personnel, federal personnel, in order to justify their murder, in order to justify doxing them, harassing them, harassing their family, attacking their family. Who knows what these psychos are capable of? And again, I go back to this fact that if these jurisdictions do not want raids, at least at this scale, then they would cooperate with ice. They are, they are actually letting out onto the streets murderers, child abusers, child rapists. They are letting them back out on the streets, and instead of deporting them, they have them all over the country. Now. We're up to about 650,000 deportations, actually above that. Now, those are forceful removals from the country. 650,000 of them, according to Tom Holm and Borders are. Tom Holman. About 65 to 70% of those are actual criminals that have committed crimes once, breaking the law to get in here in the first place. Right. So they're all criminals because they. They got here without us welcoming them or doing it the right way. But then 65 to 70% of the 650,000 that have been deported are actual criminals on the streets. And I have to come for Joe Rogan because he is simply wrong on this issue. Play Cut 336. You don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens. They just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to? All right, Joe. I'M a fan. Charlie was a fan, an admirer. But you're wrong. Out of the 650,000 forceful deportations, approximately 170 of those apprehensions were temporarily misapprehensions, meaning that they were mistaken identities. They were eventually released. That is a success rate of over 99.9%. To demand 100%, you know, I would say accurate apprehensions to. To demand 100% accuracy is unreasonable. And a scale of this deportation shows.

[Blake]

The power of how media narratives frame people. Because how often do you think the police arrest the wrong person in just normal law enforcement?

[Charlie Kirk]

All the time.

[Blake]

All the time. Oh, we thought you were involved in this thing. We were mistaken. You have to let them out.

[Terrence Bates]

We.

[Blake]

We went into some. There was a fight, for example, and we arrested everyone in the fight. And we later deduced actually only some of them were responsible for starting this fight. This happens all the time. Or they round up a bunch of kids and actually only some of those kids were being troublemakers. That happens. Happens all of the time. And frankly, you know, I bet the media could make a gigantic whip people up into a mob about that if they really wanted to. And instead, the focus is endlessly ice. Ice. Ice. The new Gestapo. Ice, ice, ice. So, in fact, we did this. They did this with police. From 2013 through 2020, they whipped people up against police. We got the George Floyd moment. Crime doubled overnight. And then people thought, oh, wait, actually, oh, wait, the police were just. They were lying to us about the police the whole time. And now they're just running the same operation on ice. And unfortunately, there's just a lot of people. I think Joe Rogan is very symbolic of somewhat less engaged voters. Maybe I'll just say, like lower information voters, and just they're easily swayed one way or the other by a narrative, especially if it's a novel narrative or something they haven't quite seen before. So I think if they were doing this to normal cops, he would recognize the pattern. But ICE isn't normal cops. It's slightly different. It's a new issue. And it just, it slightly alters their brain. But, yeah, they're not going to be 100% effective on these things.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, listen, a temporary apprehension in the. In the course of 650,000 plus forceful deportations of people that shouldn't be here, 65 to 70% of them are criminals. I'll take that success rate any day. And if you want to know why we're doing this, it's because Joe Biden let in millions of illegals. They started the problem, we're fixing it. Get out of the way. We're gonna analyze the psychology of it next.

[Terrence Bates]

Welcome back to this Real America's Voice news break. I'm Terrence Bates. The House Oversight Committee has a contempt vote scheduled for next week after both former President Bill Clinton and his wife and former secretary, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, failed to show up for depositions related to the Oversight Committee's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Their absence isn't necessarily a surprise as the former first couple sent Congressman James Comer a letter saying that they weren't coming and pretty much daring Comer and his committee to hold them in contempt. Quote, we expect you will direct your committee to seek to hold us in contempt. You will say it's not our decision to make, but we have made it. Now you have to make yours. The couple writes Congressional Republicans are blasting both the Clintons and congressional Democrats for this week's failures to appear.

[Charlie Kirk]

They didn't show up today. They're only interested in this subject when it doesn't involve victims and it doesn't.

[Terrence Bates]

Involve the political operatives in their party.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's the only time they're interested. When it involves the Clintons or victims.

[Terrence Bates]

Obviously, they're actually not interested. The former president was scheduled to testify on Tuesday. The former secretary of state scheduled to testify today. Committee Chair James Comer says the Clintons sent a letter again saying that they won't be appearing because they believe that Colmer subpoenas are, quote, legally invalid. Happening Today, Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio hosting the foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland. The meeting comes as the Trump administration is ramping up the rhetoric and efforts to to take Greenland. All of this is part of a strategic national security effort for the United States. Buying Greenland could reportedly cost up to $700 billion. But officials from both Greenland and Denmark say the Arctic island isn't for sale. Greenland, by the way, is in autonomous Danish territory. Denmark just announced that it is increasing its military presence in and around Greenland in response to President Trump's threat of taking the island by any means necessary. The Danish Defense Ministry also says there will be more military exercises in Greenland alongside European and Arctic partners. No American involvement was mentioned, though. That's a quick check of your headlines. We appreciate you being here with us. Now let's get you back to the Charlie Kirk show.

[Charlie Kirk]

This movement will not be silenced. You're listening to the Charlie Kirk show. All right. Welcome back to THE Charlie Kirk show. I think, Blake, you've done a good job, sort of. I think Diagnosing or describing the avatar of a lot of these people that we see, you know, distilling their general traits in culture because there are stereotypes for a reason, because they often are true. Correct. Now this doesn't just impact women. It's not just women that are getting co opted by these communist front groups to go put their body on the line like cannon fodder to fight ice or whatever playing GI Jane in the streets. It is men too. And it help us diagnose actually what's going on here because I think it's a larger societal illness, a mental illness genuinely. We call it Trump Derangement syndrome, but it's like something even bigger than that. And it's enveloped in kind of an anti colonial thing and an anti western, anti white thing is psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert. He's the author of a book that comes out in May called Therapy Nation. I thought it was pertinent and relevant to our discussion today. And just so everybody's aware, we're going to get into Greenland, we're going to get into Iran in second hour. So just hang tight with us on those stories as well. But Jonathan, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's great to have you here.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, thanks for having me, Andrew. I appreciate it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, absolutely. And so you wrote this book, Therapy Nation. You've kind of gone viral a couple times in the beginning of the year and end of last year talking about some of these, I guess, mental ailments that we see in the social media era, this hyper online era. What do you make of these young people, often on the left, that are so motivated by the propaganda that they're willing to go literally ram ice officers, put their bodies on the line, risk their lives by playing stupid games. What do you make of it?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, you have to really examine how we got to the point where people are willing to cross police lines and put themselves in such a harmful position. And you know, it's a tragedy what happened in Minnesota and it shouldn't have happened, but it did. And, and we have to look at what's going on in people's heads and we have grievance culture that has just run wild. And if you look at the Louis Dimangion case, that's always a good example. You know, you have someone who felt it was his right, his duty to take out this CEO of United Healthcare. There are a million different things he could have done instead of killing this guy, but he chose to do this. And what happens is people villainize a person, an organization, a company, a politician, and then they just feel that it is absolutely their right to take action on it. And we've seen great tragedies as a result of this type of deranged thinking. And you're right, I did write a piece in the Wall Street Journal talking about Trump derangement syndrome and I made it clear that it's not an actual diagnosis, but what I see in my practice, this is deeply concerning to me. We have people who are sick, they're staying up at night, they can't sleep at night, they're highly anxious, they feel that they're empowered and they can just take action. And it's a real concern of mine and the mental health profession, my profession really needs to take a hard look at what's going on with these people.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I mean, to me, Jonathan, it feels like these groups, these radical leftist groups, by the way, that we need to root out the funding networks. Treasury is working on that. We're going to have some folks from treasury soon talking to them about how the progress is going about rooting out the funding networks and the, the different connections. Right. We got Ms. ICE Watch that's actually training these agitators and activists on how to disrupt ICE proceedings and ICE operations in, you know, cities like Minneapolis and Portland and elsewhere. But it feels to me that they are being preyed on, These women are being preyed on. What makes them so vulnerable? And this is men too, to be fair, it's men and women. What makes them so vulnerable? Because Blake here who's I think defined it really well, a lot of these people are sort of cocooned in communities or backgrounds that we're safe, that we're thriving, that we're happy in many ways. And yet they are so alienated from America or so antagonistic to America that they feel like this is some virtuous cause. Why Are they vulnerable?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Dr. Yeah, and you're right, it is both men and women and everything in between, of course. And I think part of the problem is social media. It's some media outlets, echo chambers are created and people are just surrounding themselves with people, like minded people and data that's not entirely accurate. So many of my patients over the past several years have talked to me about how they think that Trump is Hitler, they think he's a Nazi, he's going to round up certain segments of the population, send them off to a faraway island. And we all know this isn't true, but some people actually believe this. And when all you do is surround yourself with like minded people, you actually do start to believe that and it becomes easier to villainize Trump or ICE officers or police officers. And I think that's partially what we have playing out on the streets across America and specifically in Minnesota.

[Blake]

Jonathan, does this, is there like any end stage for this? It just, it feels so. It feels like this does end in some sort of like, catastrophic meltzo meltdown. I mean, we've seen some of these people who, they just seem super genuinely mentally unwell. Is this a phase that passes and they get over it? Does it get worse and worse? I guess it just doesn't seem super stable to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is there healing?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Well, it's, it's, it's definitely not stable. I've appeared on Fox TV a number of times and I've discussed how political division is, is wreaking havoc on our society. And we just came out of the holiday season and I had patients who refused, refuse to attend holiday dinner with their Trump voting uncle or their progressive cousin. And this, this really needs to end. You know, one of the things that I urge my patients to think about is that family and friends should be more important than any political figure or political party. Unfortunately, we're not seeing that. And it's, it's reached a bit of a fever pitch over the past few years. So people really need to get back to what's important to them. And honestly, most of my patients are too busy trying to earn a living and support their families than to go on the streets and protest law enforcement officers.

[Blake]

Well, so you say the family and friend part is important. Why do you think we've gotten away from that? We've talked about that on the show a lot. Charlie would talk about that a lot. That there is that loss of family. It seems so widespread, though, that it clearly seems systematic, institutional, societal. I'm not sure people, it seems like people just can't have the friends and family that they used to. Everyone's too online. Is that the case, do you feel?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah. And people are, they're not looking at facts and data. They're looking, they're looking at the situation through the lens of emotion. And that's really largely what's driving a lot of the behaviors that we're seeing playing out, a lot of the pathological behaviors. And if people could get back to two friends, family, kids, passions, hopefully that don't include politics, I think we'd get back to a much better place as a, as a nation.

[Charlie Kirk]

So this is the new clip that's going around. And, you know, obviously the death of Renee Good. We do not Celebrate that. We actually feel terrible that she was convinced that this was a good idea for her to go in the streets and obstruct ICE officers and that it ended in her death. And we think that's a tragedy. That being said, there's another video that seems to be riling everybody up. My question for you on the other side of this video is when does activism, agitation turn into direct and outright violence, and what are the precursors for that? 334 to move my car. I am disabled.

[Kelly Loeffler]

I have a brain injury.

[Charlie Kirk]

Stay back. I have autistic and I have a brain injury. Put me down. I was just trying to get to the doctor. So she was blocking ICE agents in the street. She was told to get out of the way. She didn't obey commands, which seems to be a theme here. I don't know if they're getting trained to intentionally disobey law enforcement commands and orders, but this is the video that is now being used to rile up more activists, more agitation, more agitprop, if you will. Is this what they do intentionally so that a few crazies become willing to use actual violence?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, I actually think that's part of what's going on here. I think these people have simply lost sight of. Of morals and what's important, and we have laws in place for a reason. And I think they're just overlooking the fact that these laws exist. And, you know, if these people are parents, if they're spouses, I don't think that's coming into their thinking in that moment when they decide to violate or not obey the law enforcement officers. But that shows you just how powerful this is. People are willing to think, sacrifice indirectly, unconsciously, their lives for this cause that's not even rooted in fact. So it's deeply concerning to me as a mental health professional, what we're seeing play out on the streets. It used to be that you would go out there and make some noise and get your statements out there and get your thoughts out there, but now we have people that are actually risking their lives, and that's a very dangerous place to be.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And I guess the question is, you know, this hits home for us personally with what happened with Charlie, is this dehumanizing language ultimately makes some of these crazy people think that they're doing something righteous. When they use violence, when you call them Gestapo, when you call them Nazis, what are the precursors? What do you need to look for with people that could be actually turning violent and using guns, cars, whatever.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah. And that's what I saw with President Trump as well. We had people that would just demonize him. They were convinced that he was a Nazi, a dictator, and that just gave them the right and their pathologic mind to take. To take action. I think these people lack purpose in their lives. I think there's underlying anxiety, depression. There's a lot of catastrophic thinking, a whole lot of drama in their lives. And these people largely need an object to displace that onto. And we saw it here in New York with the election of. With Mamdani and the hatred towards wealthy people. It almost seems like they always need someone to blame for their own shortcomings. There was once a time when we would look at wealthy people and feel inspired by them and try to figure out how we could get to that place. But now in some people's mind, we go right towards hatred. So admiration doesn't seem to exist these days.

[Charlie Kirk]

Doctor, you said that 75% of your patients, and this is one of your viral stories, have what you would call tds. You know, you're saying it's not an actual diagnosis, it's not clinical, but this is what you would describe about 75%, is that right?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah. And it's not an actual diagnosis. But a lot of what I'm seeing, the symptoms, the high anxiety, people rearrange in their lives, deciding who they date, who they're friends with, whether they can take a vacation or not. These are pretty significant actions that are happening. And I would say about 3/4 of my patients are impacted by this in some way. And I even went so far as to say it's the defining pathology of the last half decade.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hopefully we can get through this. Doctor, thank you for your time. We appreciate your insight. All right, God bless you, and we'll. We'll talk to you soon.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Take care, guys. Bye.

[Charlie Kirk]

Bye. We'll be right back.

[Blake]

Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. So while we've been discussing all of this drama with ice, there's other drama unfolding in the furthest hyperborean north.

[Charlie Kirk]

With ice. With ice. A lot of ice. Not ice.

[Blake]

No, true, True story. So Greenland, the legend goes. I don't remember if this is true, but the legend goes, Iceland is there. That's full of ice. And then Eric the Red sails further and discovers Greenland, and he names, supposedly he names it Greenland to scam people into wanting to move there. Yeah, they did have Norse settlements there for a long time. It didn't work out great for them. They were, I believe eventually they were. They were conquered. They Kind of. They had too much inbreeding and they kind of fell into societal decay. There were only a few thousand people there, and they were eventually conquered and killed by the Inuits, who were not the original native inhabitants either. And then eventually Denmark reacquired it. So it's not that they were always there. They actually reacquired it later after this. They've been holding it a long time. As I'm sure all of you know by now, President Trump has become very interested in acquiring Greenland. There's a lot of reasons to do that. It is super far north. And so a lot of you may know, other than the Alaska near, being near Russia. The fastest way for America to European Russia is straight north over the North Pole. That matters a lot for things like nuclear submarines, ICBMs, all of those things. It's just fastest point between two areas on the globe. And so we've had military bases in Greenland ever since, throughout the Cold War. It's all noteworthy. On top of that, it's a big chunk of land. There are potentially a lot of natural resources beneath the thick Greenland ice sheet. It could be economical to extract those someday as other sources of resources run out. So President Trump's been very interested in that. Today, the Danish Foreign Minister was in the United States in the Eisenhower Building to have a meeting with J.D.

[Charlie Kirk]

Vance.

[Blake]

J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. We sounds like we're going to have a press statement from those Danish ministers any minute now. It'll be interesting what they say.

[Charlie Kirk]

We've heard that it went very well.

[Blake]

We've heard. Yeah, we haven't. We have a source who was at the meeting, who saw what the Vice President and what Marco Rubio did. Remember, they're supposed to be in a feud with each other, but they seem to be working.

[Charlie Kirk]

They're not. They're not.

[Blake]

Of course they're not. They are allies. They are working together on this.

[Charlie Kirk]

They're very close, actually.

[Blake]

Yeah, of course they are. And apparently they have made us proud on this one. It's very interesting what's going on. The White House. It's clear this is a passion project of the President. Just today, the White House tweeted, which way, Greenland man? And it's two kind of sled dog things at the Greenland flag. And, you know, you can go with America or with China, Russia. And that's the line President Trump was taking today. He also posted this on Truth this morning.

[Charlie Kirk]

The United States, Throw it up.

[Blake]

The United States needs Greenland for the purpose of national security. It is Vital for the golden dome. That's his missile defense shield that we are building. NATO should be leading the way for us to get it. If we don't, China or Russia will. And that is not going to happen militarily. Without the vast power of the United States, much of which I built during my first term and I'm now bringing to a new and even higher level, NATO would not be an effective force or deterrent. Not even close. They know that and so do I. NATO becomes more formidable and effective with Greenland in the hands of the United States. Anything less than that is unacceptable. And then, as always, thank you for your attention to this matter. President DONALD Trump. So this is, it's all very interesting. I think the president is right. It makes more sense for Greenland to be with the United States. What I do worry is he is definitely making this hard sell on it. He's being very aggressive with Greenland, being very aggressive with the Europeans, and maybe I'm a softie. I think there's a very strong win, win, win case. And you see the echoes of that in what he's saying, which is that it would make NATO in our defense, stronger if it's with the United States in some sort of permanent arrangement, as is, we have the bases there. We've always had military access to it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Especially after World War II.

[Blake]

Exactly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Truman negotiated this.

[Blake]

But I think there's an active Greenland independence. And I think people who do the math, they wonder, well, if Greenland were to get become independent, it's not very big. Its population is under 100,000 people. There's fewer people in it than in Tempe. There's fewer people there than in. I think there's probably individual. There's individual square miles of New York City that have more people than Greenland does. And so if you do the math on this, it's just an island that big is not going to be a truly independent country. It's going to be dependent on somebody. The same way a lot of Pacific islands are basically dependent on the United States or on Australia. And so it's going to be dependent on someone. If it became independent, it could be that it will fall under Russian or Chinese sway. They might just back up a dump truck of money and say, we're going to try to buy you out. Or they might just bribe people. There's not a lot of people. You could bribe the entire government, something like that. And so Trump is saying that's not an acceptable outcome. But he could also point out Greenland is basically a welfare ward of Denmark. Denmark does not Profit off of this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Arrangement, they spend 4 billion spend a.

[Blake]

Year, billions a year propping it up. America is far more capable of handling that expense. Oh well, we have to support 55,000 mostly welfare dependents. We do that in a lot of Chicago suburbs too. And so we're able to bear that cost more and we can say green Denmark, thank you for doing this. You're a great ally. Here's a giant pile of money. And also we'll guarantee a giant pile of money for the Greenlanders. Like we can give them more money than you do and we get better security. I think there's a very strong win, win, win case to be made here. And what I think would be the worst outcome is just if this turns into some stupid fight. And that's what we don't want is as an example, let's say we make it so anti US like nationalism in Europe is now associated with being on the left and against America. And this allows the left to win just enough elections for them to great replace their entire populations.

[Charlie Kirk]

A Pyrrhic victory.

[Blake]

Very much a Pyrrhic victory if you're a European nationalist.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, well. And so I think the question that a lot of people have is right now we have access to the bases. So we do have some sort of military foothold there. We could build more potentially. I'm sure Denmark would be willing to negotiate it. Why push for full ownership?

[Blake]

I think it's that independence question that there's that lack of permanency to it. Anything that is not a truly permanent relationship can be changed. And there is that independence movement in Greenland and once they're an independent actor, anything can happen. If you want an example of how these, of how very long term arrangements can change. Britain, when they had Hong Kong, in the south of China, they made a 99 year lease. And the story goes that they made it 99 years because permanent felt weird. And the Guy thought, well, 99 years is basically permanent.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Right?

[Blake]

99 years was not permanent. It expired. And they gave up Hong Kong to the People's Republic of China and a long term military base in Greenland. That can change after one election in Denmark or after one independence referendum in Greenland.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well said.

[Blake]

And that is why President Trump, President Trump knows the value of permanency. It is a real interest here and we just have to hope that Marco Rubio and the Vice President are able to make that strong pitch to, to the Danish government.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, so far indications are that it was a very positive meeting. So we're going to wait and see. What those press statements indicate, hopefully that they are positive. And listen, at some point you have to give this to the greenlanders themselves. There's 57,000 of them. They probably do are incentivized by a payday coming up if they link arms with the United States in a permanent fashion. So we're going to watch that and we will update you in the second hour if we get news. We're going to turn our attention to Iran next. Don't go anywhere.

[Terrence Bates]

Terrence Bates here with your real America's Voice news break. Thanks so much for being here with us. Happening right NOW, Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio are said to be meeting with the foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland in order to discuss President Trump's intention of taking control of Greenland. The administration says the small island is a key strategic site for US national security in the Arctic. Buying Greenland could cost up to 700 billion with a B dollars. But officials from both Greenland and Denmark say the island isn't for sale. President Trump has said he wants the island one way or another. In response, Denmark just announced this morning that it is increasing its military presence in and around Greenland. The Danish Defense Ministry also saying there will be more military exercises in Greenland alongside European and Arctic partners. No American involvement has been mentioned. Greenland, by the way, is currently a territory of Denmark. American personnel at a key US Base in Qatar are being advised to evacuate as soon as this evening in response to the ongoing situation in nearby Iran. The move is said to be precautionary. In the meantime, the death toll in Iran has surpassed 2,500 people following weeks of protests that have extended across all of Iran's 31 provinces. Governments across the Middle east also discouraging the Trump administration from getting into a war with Iran, fearing, quote, unprecedented consequences. Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have been in constant contact with the Trump administration over the potential of US Strikes in oil Iran. They believe such attacks would spark a full blown war. President Trump, what say you?

[Donald Trump]

They've got to show humanity. They've got a big problem and I hope they're not going to be killing people. And I'm going to have a report very soon. It would seem to me that they have been badly misbehaving.

[Terrence Bates]

For now, the US Is slapping any country that does business with Iran with tariffs. And just this morning, Iran's national or Revolutionary Guard went on record blaming the United States and Israel for inciting the current protests there and the subsequent deaths. The House Oversight Committee has a vote scheduled for next week after both Former President Bill Clinton and his wife and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton failed to show up for depositions related to the Oversight Committee's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Their absence isn't necessarily a surprise as the former first couple sent Congressman Comer a letter saying that they weren't coming and pretty much daring Comer and his committee to hold them in contempt of Congress. Quote, they wrote in this letter, we expect you will direct your committee to seek to hold us in contempt. You will say it's not our decision to make, but we have made it. Now you have to make yours. Congressional Republicans in the meantime, are blasting both the Clintons as well as Congressional Democrats for this week's failures to appear.

[Charlie Kirk]

They didn't show up today. They're only interested in this subject when it doesn't involve victims and it doesn't.

[Terrence Bates]

Involve the political operatives in their party.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's the only time they're interested. When it involves the Clintons or victims.

[Terrence Bates]

Obviously, they're actually not interested. The former president was scheduled to testify on Tuesday. The former secretary of state was scheduled to be deposed today. Committee Chair James Comer saying the Clinton sent a letter saying that they won't be appearing in because they believe, in Comer's words, quote, that they were. That the subpoenas, excuse me, were legally invalid. Well, in general, it's been a fairly quiet public schedule on the tap for the White House and specifically President Trump today. However, he does have a signing ceremony scheduled for this afternoon. But on Tuesday, a much different story as the commander in chief spent the day in Detroit touring a Ford plant and later addressing the Detroit Economic Club. His remarks spanned the gamut from business to current political challenges, including the administration's continued crackdown on illegal immigrants in cities and states that seek to protect them.

[Donald Trump]

Starting February 1st, we're not making any payments to sanctuary cities or states having sanctuary cities because they do everything possible to protect criminals at the expense of American citizens. And it breeds fraud and crime and all of the other problems that come. So we're not making any payment to anybody that supports sanctuary cities.

[Terrence Bates]

That's going to do it for your headlines. As always, we appreciate having you along for the ride. Now let's get you back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Jonathan Alpert]

All right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Welcome. Hour two of the Charlie Kirk show is underway and we are turning our sights on Iran. There has been, I would say, divergent or won't.

[Blake]

He will.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Well, well, here won't. He is. And we're talking obviously, about whether or not Trump is going to take kinetic military action Fully support economic, moral support of the Iranian people, all that stuff. There's a huge question about military action. Help us. To help us unpack. This is Maya Tusi. I hope I got that approximately correct. Founder of Tusi tv, based out of London. He's Iranian. Welcome to the show.

[Maya Tusi]

Thank you for having me, guys. Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, absolutely. So there's multiple questions swirling right now about the Iranian question. If you're an American. Right. Will President Trump take action militarily to support the independence movement that is obviously pouring over into the streets? But there's also a question about how brutal has the regime crackdown on protesters really become? I've seen some reports, quote, a number of 2500 dead, which is already extraordinary, by the way. I've seen other reports that it's 12,000. Do you have any insight on what the accurate figure is?

[Maya Tusi]

Yeah. So you can't really take any of these because in the past, we've had a lot of uprisings and crackdown. Crackdowns have had hundreds and hundreds, sometimes over a thousand when it comes to the massacre. But obviously, the official figures that the mainstream media keep going with is, you know, a thousand, sometimes 600 on the ground. All the information that we have from the hospitals and the whistleblowers obviously goes to the idea that it's thousands. There was a leak from the inner circle of Ali Khameneid, Supreme Leader, a few days ago, and. And the documents signed by him, the direct order, and they believe, they themselves, that it was about 12,000. Now, there are also unofficial figures that's just come out, that is closer to 20,000. But as President Trump said, even one is enough. And that is the main argument right now. The mainstream media want to get into the debate of, well, if it's 2000 instead of 4000, then is it really our business? That's the problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. There is sort of a. It's a weird math you have to contemplate if you're gonna consider military action. Is there a threshold? Is there a. I mean, it's an awkward question to ask, but certainly when you're dealing with Iran that has a history of squashing uprisings, often violently with lethal force, this is not necessarily something new, but this is new because of the scale and the scope and just how widespread these protests have become in Iran. Why don't you take us into that psychology about what is driving these protests? Why is this unique? Why is this new? And why does this maybe portend an actual change in leadership in Iran? Yeah.

[Maya Tusi]

So firstly, when it comes to any potential action by the US And President Trump. It's not really just about the scale of the uprising, which I'll get into. It's also about how dangerous the Islamic Republic has become to the world, including to President Trump directly, because they tried to assassinate him a couple of times over the last couple of years. The reality of the situation is that this uprising was obviously building up for a very long time. They have had attempts of uprisings, and of course there's been massive crackdowns because the regime, or as the Iranians would call them, the Islamic occupation regime, don't really care. They would just kill everybody. But this time round, the regime is extremely weak. The trigger point was when the currency in Iran collapsed, and that was over two weeks ago, almost three weeks ago. And of course, there is no. There's the lack of water, lack of electricity, lack of money, lack of jobs, and lack of recognition on the international stage. And people said, enough is enough. This time around, it wasn't just anger. They are very, very motivated, and they know they've got nothing else to lose. Usually in the past when you kill a few hundred people, people would go home to get scared. But after thousands who've been massacred, people continue to stay out because they also finally have a unifying leader in the Crown Prince Basrah. And President Trump, until now, has had their backs, which has really helped the people on the ground, but they definitely need support as soon as possible.

[Blake]

So is there an ideological platform that, you know, unites these people other than wanting to overthrow the current government? Like, do we have. Let's just be right.

[Andrew]

Are there.

[Blake]

Are there Islamists who also oppose the government? Are there? And also, are there steps the government could take to try to mollify this short of regime change, short of total collapse, like, I guess, apparently. I learned recently there actually is a council of clerics that could, for lack of a better term, fire the ayatollah and, you know, say about, here's a new one. Could something like that happen?

[Maya Tusi]

No, no. So that people keep comparing it to Gorbachev and Soviet Union. It's very, very different because this is a cult of personality behind one figurehead. And the reality is they basically pretended to do what you just said, like reforming from within, things like that. Over the last few uprisings, people know that this is an occupation. Since 1979, there was a paramilitary coup occupation that basically resulted thanks to Jimmy Carter, US Democrats, MI6, the Fifth Republic in France that basically decided, let's get behind the ayatollahs, because they were Scared that the Soviet Union in the middle of Cold War are going to take over Iran in the 70s. So they thought, let's back these guys. They seem to be stupid enough that they can be controlled as puppets. That backfired because the next day the Islamists went on and chanted, death to America. Right now your question about, you know, in terms of power vacuum or who is involved. Iran is very different to countries like Libya or Iraq or Syria. There are no extremist groups in that sense. There is no vacuum because people finally are behind, united behind one concept, even if not necessarily the Crown prince, which is true. They are all united behind the original flag of Iran. The history, the heritage. They simply want their country back. It's more similar to the situation in Poland after the National Socialists in Germany got kicked out. And then again after the Communists from Soviet Union got kicked out. Poland said, we just got our country back. That's basically the fight. It's not necessarily like Iraq or Syria. There are no really extremist groups. There is a tiny group called Mujahideen Mek and there are about 13 of them. They're smaller than the Green Party. Nobody cares about them. But that's the main goal that, you know, people don't really care about those guys. They are basically a Marxist Islamic group. They used to be with the IRGC in the 70s against the king, but then they split. They basically had a fight. And now they also want to bring down the regime because they want to have a different version of communist Islamic Republic. That is the biggest problem.

[Blake]

Well, what about. Another concern I know we've seen is America's repeatedly had some involvement in the Middle east where you topple a government and then our own government is surprised to learn, oh wait, there's, there's a lot of ethnic grievances in this society. This happened in Iraq, notoriously. President Bush apparently didn't quite get the Sunni Shia split before we actually intervened. We've seen it, of course, in Syria. Lebanon is basically defined by those splits. I know in Iran there is a series. As well as historical Iranians, there's other smaller groups. Is there any risk of a crack up along those lines if there's a power vacuum?

[Maya Tusi]

So this was a worry a couple of decades ago. In fact, under the Islamic Republic, these different ethnic groups and regional groups were essentially being divided. But over the last few years, the movement against the Islamic Republic has actually united them. You now have you got the Persian Iranians, so that's my ethnicity, but you've got the Kurdish Iranians Azeris and all the others, even the Kurds in Iran compared to the Kurds in Turkey or other places, they are actually calling for a united Iran and they're calling for the Crown Prince to return. So all these other ethnic groups and other religious groups are getting together. So ironically, the IRGC have united them. But again, as I mentioned, it's very different to the situation in Iraq. But it's the liberal mainstream media that are not helping the situation. They continue to spread this propaganda. For example, CNN and many others have been calling it economic protests when it's an actual uprising. They're literally calling for the overthrow of the regime, but at least they're calling it something. Compared to certain other people, the self appointed queens of expertise like Candace Owens, who are saying that there are no protests, there is no uprising, it's just a sire by the Jews. She literally said that yesterday. And that is embarrassing. There are millions of people in Iran who are currently under occupation. Tens of thousands have been killed. At least thousands have been killed. And apparently it's just the Jews. But right now, people in Iran have called for the support of both the Crown Prince as their leader and the President of the United States. It's different to 10 years ago. If you had told me five years ago, 10 years ago, would you like the US to get involved? I would have said probably not. Because you need the consent of the public. You need that consensus. And they know, they don't really want boots on the ground. They don't want to put US soldiers at risk. You simply need to have a strategic, precise, targeted attack similar to when recently they picked up Maduro.

[Blake]

That's why this is very interesting. So we actually want to keep you for another segment. I really want to explore that topic about the Shah and his appeal. So stick with us. We'll be right back with you.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, we're gonna get right back in Iran. Just one second. But first I gotta tell you about why refi our friends [e-mail] you can read testimonials from other people [e-mail] that have been where you are, that have been suffering from a mountain of student loan debt, private student loan debt, and they escaped. You can even see what their monthly payments were before and what they were after. So you can see a concrete example of just how Yrefi can help you get out from under your private student loan crisis. Because that's what it is. If you're living in a debt crisis in your life. It is stressful, it is causing you probably depression, anxiety. You don't need to live this way. So take advantage of the tools that they're going to offer you. The refinancing of your distressed or default to private student loans that others simply will not touch. There is a way out. There is an opportunity to get ahead. Call them. They're good people, good patriots that love this country. They love students. They want to help students. 888yrefi34 or log on to yrefi.com that's yrefy.com you may not be available in all 50 states, but they don't care what your credit score is. So it's available in your state. Take advantage of what they can offer you. And again, they won't. They'll even let you skip a payment every six months up to 12 times without penalty. These are people that are flexible, will work with you to get ahead. Why refi.com I'm going to be hanging out with them again soon. I think next week. So excited about that. Great people. Check them out. All right, go ahead, Blake. We've got more questions.

[Blake]

We've got a lot more for our great guests, a lot more questions for our guest. And we were talking a lot about the shah going in. You saying, you were saying that there's large, there's actually almost unanimous support for the shot. But I guess my first question is what does that actually mean? Because my understanding is that Reza Pahlavi has basically just said, I'm willing to be a constitutional monarch. And so then what would that mean? Could we get Islamist parties running in the election who would then act on his behalf? Or is there any, is there a platform that exists other than reinstall this old monarch?

[Maya Tusi]

Well, that's a very good question, actually, because their propaganda has been for decades and especially recently that, oh, you can't bring back the king because that's absolute monarchy. That's dictatorship. Not really. This is the 21st century. It works in Britain, more modern Britain, technically a constitutional monarchy and actually having parliamentary democracy. And it's going to work in Iran because these two countries have had the history and the heritage. If I were to create a new country from scratch, I'll probably create more of an American model with the constitution and everything else because the republican America has the good checks and balances. But in those cultures, constitutional monarchy works. And your question is actually very important because what is the limits? Because the crown Prince, his values are liberal democracy and, of course, freedom and free speech. Does there have to be a line when it comes to Certain groups or ideologies being restricted, or do you just allow it to happen? So my personal opinion is that it's a very gray area because, yes, my instinct would say, yeah, probably ban the radical communists and ban radical Islamists from having a party, but then doesn't that create a bigger problem in terms of underground movement? But I don't really think there's any problem overall in the cultures like Iran, they don't really have Islamist problems and they don't really have communist problems. They are socialists like any other country. And generally speaking, the culture, obviously around 30% of Iran are Muslim practicing Muslim. And they're all Shia. They're not necessarily isis, Al Qaeda. Apologies for the connection, by the way. And so I'm not really afraid of that. But I think if you're going to go with liberal democracy, you're just going to have to allow people to have the freedom to set up their parties and basically have the checks and balances to ensure that the monarch prevents anybody from becoming a tyrant.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Mayra Tusi, founder of Tusi tv. Thank you again, this has been a fascinating discussion. I have a kind of a pointed question. I'm just gonna preface at the top. So we had Elika Laban on, another Iranian, perhaps you know her, and she stated to us that the protests will be successful only with outside intervention. It felt like a direct pitch for American intervention. I am American. I'm born here, raised here, probably gonna die here. My kids are born here. I care about America, okay? And forgive me if I have not heard this story before. And it feels like we. Perhaps there is a propaganda or a messaging campaign going on that wants to sort of lead us down the path of another foreign intervention. Now, I've heard you say that this is different. This is not like Libya, this is not like Iraq. And I actually do believe you, and I actually am convinced of that, that Iran is different. I support economic warfare to bring down the regime. I support moral support from afar. How am I to interpret these signals, though, that we are perhaps getting dog walked into another foreign conflict in the Middle east when we have our own problems here at home? And what would your ask of the United States be?

[Maya Tusi]

Yes, the Americans should put America first and you should not really get dragged into different walls. And as I said, I'm not advocating for the US troops to put boots on the ground. Iranians are not asking that either. This is not Iraq in 2003. On the one hand, on a more kind of personal, emotional level, I would say in my own subjective opinion, well, the US government in 79 with Jimmy Carter caused this chaos. Not necessarily just for the Iranians, for themselves and for the region. You create instability and an enemy. It will be nice if you could fix it for yourself at least. But you don't have to directly do regime change because the people are ready to finish the job. Right now the priority is just stop the killings and paralyze the regime. And the hope is that those inside the Iranian military who are saying they are defecting, they can defect and they can continue and finish the revolution. That is a priority. I'm not asking for President Trump to come in and take over Iran and force him to change the regime. Simply help the people to finish the job that they want to do. Because whether we like it or not, this is the American empire and the United States is the world police. Doesn't have to mean that the American soldiers lives should be at risk every single day. Doesn't mean the Americans have to be involved with every war. But if America is not keeping an eye on the world, the Chinese will.

[Blake]

Well, so one quick question and we're nearing the end here, so you can make a quick response. But if you say our goal is to stop the killings, what would be the military strike America could do that would stop the killings? Is there a particular place, is there a particular target?

[Maya Tusi]

Well, the President has been presented with about 50 targets apparently. I'm not really sure exactly what specific targets they have, but overall you obviously have a lot of IRGC bases, you have a lot of government buildings, you have the actual generals and CIA know where they are. The Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei is currently in a bunker in east of Iran in Tabas. So if they go for those things and, or if they could pick up Khamenei and give him an uber lift like with Maduro, that would be nice. But because he has to face justice, he has to actually stand on trial just like the National Socialists did in Germany. But if you paralyze the actual irgc, we believe that there are people in the military, the actual military, the army of Iran, who are ready to take control until the Crown Prince returns to his country and then they can have a referendum on their future constitution.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, fair enough. I mean, you know, listen, the President to your point, has been presented a suite of options, from diplomatic options to military options. And listen, we stand with the people of Iran. We would love to correct the wrong of 1979 and have an Iran that we can work with and that was welcomed back into the international community. Those things are all we're completely in agreement. We'll see what happens. I, you know, the position of this show is we've learned to trust Trump's instincts on some of these things. So thank you for joining us. Thank you for that analysis was very, very fascinating. Kelly Leffler joins the next.

[Terrence Bates]

Welcome back to this Real america's Voice news break. I'm Terrence Bates. The House Oversight Committee has a contempt vote scheduled for next week after both former President Bill Clinton and his wife and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton failed to show up for depositions related to the Oversight Committee's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Their absence isn't necessarily a surprise as the former first couple sent Congressman James Comer a letter saying that they weren't coming and pretty much daring Comer and his committee to hold them in contempt. Quote, we expect you will direct your committee to seek to hold us in contempt. You will say it's not our decision to make, but we have made it. Now you have to make yours. The couple writes Congressional Republicans are blasting both the Clintons and congressional Democrats for this week's failures to appear.

[Charlie Kirk]

They didn't show up today. They're only interested in this subject when it doesn't involve victims and it doesn't.

[Terrence Bates]

Involve the political operatives in their party. That's the only time they're interested.

[Charlie Kirk]

When it involves the Clintons or victims.

[Terrence Bates]

Obviously, they're actually not interested. The former president was scheduled to testify on Tuesday. The former secretary of state scheduled to testify today. Committee Chair James Comer says the Clinton sent a letter again saying that they won't be appearing because they believe that Comer subpoenas are, quote, legally invalid. Happening Today, Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio hosting the foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland. The meeting comes as the Trump administration is ramping up the rhetoric and efforts to take Greenland. All of this is part of a strategic national security effort for the United States. Buying Greenland could reportedly cost up to $700 billion. But officials from both Greenland and Denmark say the Arctic island isn't for sale. Greenland, by the way, is in autonomous Danish territory. Denmark just announced that it is increasing its military presence in and around Greenland in response to President Trump's threat of taking the island by any means necessary. The Danish Defense Ministry also says there will be more military exercises in Greenland alongside European and other Arctic partners. No American involvement was mentioned, though. That's a quick check of your headlines. We appreciate you being here with us. Now let's get you back to the Charlie Kirk show.

[Charlie Kirk]

The voice of General Operations is the Charlie Kirk Show. All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. We are honored by an in studio guest, and that is Kelly Leffler, 28th administrator. I always have, I love that. Of this small Business Administration. So sba, and we were joking because we change the titles.

[Blake]

Yeah. Do we call you Administrator Leffler?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, you can call me Kelly. That's my Twitter handle, sba. Kelly, I'm so honored to serve in the Trump administration. I don't care what my title is as long as I'm a part of it. Call me Kelly.

[Charlie Kirk]

I was struggling, Kelly. I was struggling about this with Lee Zeldin yesterday, who's the administrator of the epa. And I was like, Lee, you know, I just kind of, you know, we defaulted to, you know, calling him Lee anyways.

[Kelly Loeffler]

They might as well call us bureaucrats.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know, right?

[Blake]

Thanks for joining us.

[Maya Tusi]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Kelly Leffler, former senator, you have a rich history in the state of Georgia. You are now in the Trump administration. But, you know, we were, we were joking. I think the best place to start for our audience is for you to just describe what the Small Business Administration does.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, you're right, Andrew. As we were talking, a lot of people don't know. The Small Business Administration is essentially a public private partnership. We're not giving grants out to small businesses. We're providing a government guarantee on commercial loans for your local community banker to have the incentive to make that loan to a startup business to help that community have flourishing small businesses have an ecosystem of startups and expansion, and that goes into even manufacturing. Most manufacturers in America meet the small business threshold.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is the threshold?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, it depends on your industry, but for manufacturing, you can have up to 1500 employees as long as you're not over the net worth level. And that's why 98% of America's manufacturers qualify as small businesses. I just came from a great small business manufacturing startup in Tempe just down the road. And this is the heartbeat of America. And you've got everything coming, bringing to bear there, from the capital that SBA provided for this facility to the skilled workforce. I met some of the contractors there in hard hats. And this is what it's all about in the, in the Trump administration. His economic agenda is going to create more and more of that. That's why we set a record in 2025 of putting out 85,000 small business loans totaling $45 billion. The economic multiplier effect of getting $85 billion out, you know, is huge in the economy.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, there's there's also a trade deficit. This is a lot of news this morning. So the US Trade deficit is at one of its lowest points in at least recent memory, last couple decades. You put up a tweet here. 370. The trade deficit has reached its lowest level in nearly two decades, while our exports hit a record high of $302 billion. So President Trump's fair trade policy is restoring America's industrial dominance and strength. So obviously we have, we have much further to go. But, you know, and then we've got this tariff question that is looming. The Supreme Court's going to rule on that. I do believe even just we had John Carney on Breitbart, economics editor there, saying that even if the Supreme Court rules against this, there's other levels, levers the Trump administration could pull to still, you know, enact tariffs because they are powerful. How have you seen those play out with small businesses? Because, you know, some small businesses are probably going to see a negative impact, but a lot are going to see a positive impact.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Absolutely. I mean, I've crossed this country from Alaska to Maine, walking factory floors, talking to builders, entrepreneurs. Look, when you hear the word tariff, think fair trade. And that's what this country has not had. And I am just grateful for President Trump for his courage and his vision to believe in American industry to help us reindustrialize. And you look at every part of the Trump economic agenda, from tax cuts to deregulation to generating a skilled workforce and those incentives to get back in the workforce, and you see the building of this boom on top of the $18 trillion coming in. So look, tariffs are just one piece of it, but they're an important piece that we haven't had. And everyone forgets that Biden had a Rose garden ceremony adding tariffs to China during his term that the Democrats never.

[Charlie Kirk]

Put it felt like this crazy scenario where America was just willing to get fleeced in countless ways because we were, we had like, almost like this guilt about being the richest, most powerful nation. So we, we didn't feel that we had the moral standing to exert our force to benefit our own people. So we just let everybody else have, you know, trade barriers to us. We let everybody else bilk off the American military. And President Trump is re balancing those relationships. I've been completely in favor of President Trump's tariff agenda from the start. I think, Blake, you've had some questions. This is to going typically the yin and yang that we, we play here on the show. Blake's the contrarian I. I'm sort of like, more on board with.

[Blake]

You're the narrative.

[Charlie Kirk]

I am. Okay, listen.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right. Now, we're gonna get into debate here in front of Kelly, and I don't wanna do that to her. But here's the thing, though. I do agree with that. But then. So SBA is this. This engine sort of behind the scenes, providing capital, taking some of the risk out of these capital arrangements with riskier small business startups. But then there's this other side of it that you've inherited where there is fraud that you are uncovering. Now, we're talking about Somali fraud. We're talking about foreigners coming in again, bilking off the system. What have you uncovered? What are you investigating right now?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, that's right. I mean, from day one, we came in and I said, I will have a zero tolerance policy on fraud. We convened a task force right away. I called for an audit of the agency. The agency hadn't passed an audit in four years. And President Trump likes to say, you're the biggest bank in the country. Well, guess what? The biggest bank in the country is going to finally have an audit where we're accountable for the shortcomings. That includes investigating fraud.

[Blake]

We need a number on this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, headline right here. SBA investigating 1.2 trillion. That is with a T. We've seen a lot of B's floating around with Somali fraud. Nine, 19 billion, whatever the number.

[Blake]

And to give a number on suspected fraud, specifically their internal logic in 2023. So this is Biden era. They said about estimated $200 billion in potential fraud with the PPP loans.

[Charlie Kirk]

Was that all run through SBA?

[Kelly Loeffler]

It was. That's the 1.2 trillion that ran through SBA during COVID Well, our own OIG said that about 200 billion was marked as fraudulent. And guess what the Biden administration did. They started forgiving it, sweeping it under the rug. Exactly right, Blake. And so we came in and said, we're going back, we're looking at it all. And that's what we did when it came to Minnesota. As soon as that came on the radar, I asked the team to dig through the Minnesota loans. They immediately found about 7,000 borrowers, 400 million in fraudulent loans in Minnesota alone. That tells you that there are billions and billions out the door fraudulently to thousands that should never touch SBA services again. And they need to be referred to the doj. And that's what we're doing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are these mostly Somali networks, or is it kind of across the board or.

[Kelly Loeffler]

It's widespread. We're investigating further to see how systemic it is because the level of fraud is almost organized and I've called it organized crime in some cases. And we need to look across all government programs and see where people are systemically defrauding the government.

[Blake]

The thing that stands out about this, which is if you or I were to say, okay, I want to scam Medicaid and you just went to 20 people we know and said, hey, I have an idea to scam Medicaid, one, a lot I think would say no. I think they'd all say no. And some of them might say, I'm going to call the police. I think this is a crime. Well, and what you have some communities that we've voluntarily brought into our country where that's just not the natural reaction, where they'll either 100% say nothing or a lot of them will help you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, because they don't feel culturally tied or their heritage is not tied to the proud culture.

[Blake]

It's wrong to scam your cousin or your brother, but not to scam the government.

[Charlie Kirk]

And to your point, I totally agree that it is organized because, you know, we think of organized crime as the Italian Mafia, but so often it's these.

[Blake]

An immigrant cabal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, yes, exactly. But that's, you know, those are the movies. And, you know, it's been, it's been sensationalized. But so often it's just more subtle than that. It's, it's a cousin calling a cousin saying, here, listen, I figured out this way you should go set up your own, you know, childcare center over here. You should do this. Or listen, we found a way to smuggle all this money back to Somalia. It's more subtle, it's less dramatic, less, you know, movie Hollywood, but it's massively insidious and widespread.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, especially when there's no oversight. And so we are going to go state by state and look for those states like Minnesota that really as their largest expenditure is welfare. And in the federal government, I'm talking that's at the state level. In the federal government, we operate about a trillion dollars worth of welfare programs across 80 unique systems. And so we really need to have a hard look at that. And that's what's great about the working families tax cut that was of. There's a lot of verification that's now required. There's work requirements. We're going to start cracking down on this very systemically ourselves because we can't trust the states to do it, particularly those like California Illinois, Minnesota, and others who've shown a willful disdain for taxpayer dollars. And by the way, small businesses are some of the biggest taxpayers. And so that's part of my advocacy, is to say, I'm going to make sure these programs are going to deserving job creators on Main Street.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And it's like, you know them when you see them.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

You know, the real deal companies that should be getting the backing of the SBA. And here's President Trump just having your back here. Cut. 313. He's suspending SBA loans. It sounds like it. Specifically with scammers in Minnesota. 313.

[Donald Trump]

We have also suspended nearly 8,000 SBA loans, Small Business association loans, two suspected scammers in Minnesota, of which there are many. It's a great state. It was a great state. Now it's getting destroyed by that stupid governor. What a stupid guy he is. But he's a crook. I mean, he's a incompetent guy, but he's a crook. He allowed this to go. You can't have, you can't have corruption on a scale that nobody's ever seen before. And you're sitting as a governor and you don't know what's going on. It's impossible. Even though he's a stupid guy, it's.

[Charlie Kirk]

A good, It's a really important. You know, I love this about President Trump that he gets. His instincts are almost always right. So when you guys are at the sba, are working on rooting out this fraud, auditing it, this task force, have you gotten any cooperation from the state of Minnesota?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, of course not. And we've even had other state governors attack us for looking into Minnesota. So that tells you it lays another pretty strong trail of breadcrumbs. And we're going to continue to do that. The president has been right about everything. He's right about fraud. And we're going to continue to do it because first of all, it's right for the taxpayers. And second of all, it's creating an incentive system, when it goes unchecked, to do it even more. So. Imagine that if 20%, as Treasury Secretary Besant said, 20% of all these programs are fraudulent, someday it could become 30% of an even larger number because these programs continue to grow.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, and Covid really, I mean, Blake, you know, calling me the normie, Blake was actually the guy that, during some of the aftermath of COVID and these loans that went out and these scam artists that would set up, like a transportation company, and it was like, I mean, this became a meme online because you could all spot it, how it was, you know what it was, what it looked like.

[Blake]

You could find obvious scam businesses. One employee very recently created and consulting a learning center.

[Charlie Kirk]

Leering center.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Exactly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And so Covid unleashed a lot of this. And I think you're completely right, Administrator Lefler, Kelly, that, that when you do not police this, you're only going to incentivize the creation of more and more and more fraud. 30 seconds, we've got a break. The response to you.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and that's our commitment to small businesses and taxpayers is that we're just getting started. We're not letting up. We're not like dusting off our hands and saying we've sent it over to the doj. This has given us a playbook, really a blueprint of how we go state by state now and how we handle this. This needs to become expertise of the government is tracking down fraud.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I'm going to be saying prayers for you when you start cracking the books on California and New York. So more with Kelly Loeffler when we return. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. Final segment of the day, we are joined by Kelly Lefler. She's the administrator of the Small Business Administration, which is the biggest bank in the country. People don't realize just how much power the SBA wields to help the economy. And now you're rooting out fraud. Blake has a really good question though about a certain variety of loans.

[Kelly Loeffler]

So.

[Blake]

And other. Yeah. Another part of your portfolio. So there is, it's not super famous, but it's called 8A certification. It's basically being certified as a disadvantaged firm as someone say minority owned, but can also be women owned or certain other groupings. And it makes you eligible for favorable federal treatment. And it's getting noticed by a lot of people, especially online. This is a vector the federal government has used for, let's just call it DEI or as we say on the show, anti white discrimination. Anti white male discrimination. And my understanding is this does still exist within the sba. So could you talk to us a bit about that?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Blake, you're right. Now let's just level set on what small business is. It makes up 99% of all businesses in this country. And under President Trump, we have a record 36% million. There is a group of small businesses that are under statute entitled to about 5% statutorily of federal contracting. So small businesses that are socially and Economically disadvantaged. Well under Biden that they tripled that target to 15% and it created a big vacuum for veteran owned businesses to get federal contracts. Well, what we found in that was it was a front for Shell and pass through companies to put someone in front of the business and say that they were a small business, that they were socially and economically. They self certified that they were disadvantaged and then they were able to get these huge contracts. Now when Kamala was searching out root causes, she put of immigration, illegal immigration, she put a $700 million contract out and it ended up coming through bribery. The DOJ is investigating it through an 8 program. Now that's not a small business that does a $700 million contract.

[Blake]

And there's other ones. I remember, I think when that hurricane hit Puerto Rico a decade ago, there was an issue where they hired like a one. It was a, I think a black woman owned a company to supply like 50,000 meals to the island. And that was a disaster and it never happened. I have, I've personally had friends who have set up a business to get a government contract where they just cut in a guy who was part Native American or something and said, you get 51% of it, we'll do the work. We get our cut, you get your cut. It just seems to clearly incentivize that. And so I guess as you say, Congress requires this to exist, but they.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Don'T require it to be rife with abuse. It has never been audited in its 45 year history. It came in under Carter. We are conducting the first audit in 45 years and we've, what we've already found is a lot of malfeasance, a lot of fraud. We're going to get to the bottom of it. We're going to clean up the program and make sure deserving entrepreneurs get these opportunities.

[Charlie Kirk]

So this brings up this, it's been percolating, bubbling up a little bit because of all this fraud. And this is a reintroduction of this conversation about Doge. I thought Doge was amazing. Charlie always loved Doge because it changed the culture and the focus in D.C. to actually start rooting some of the stuff out. But then you have this falling out between Elon Musk, even Elon and Scott Besant and it got all messy. We acknowledge that. But there is a coming back together. I mean, Pete Hegsett just announced a partnership with Grok and Xai. So what, what is going on with Doge? How would you guys at SBA use it? How did you use it and can we can we reignite this culture to root out some of this fraud?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Yeah. Doge was incredibly important in kicking off what is accountability in government. It helped us facilitate a lot of the changes that we made very, very quickly. And the mindset remains in this administration, which is. Right. Sizing the government. We've cut our agency by 52% in terms of headcount, 30% by spending in just the first year, and we've done more business than ever. That is a Doge mindset and that's what we have to continue to have. I hope that, that it will stay within every agency in terms of what they look at is data. We simply go through and look at the data and accountability. Who's doing what and what are the results.

[Charlie Kirk]

Now, is Palantir involved in this? Well, I know there's been a lot of, like, there's a lot of weird theories about conspiracies around Palantir. Basically what Palantir is as far as far as I understand. Send us your emails. Freedom. Charliekirk.com if you think I'm wrong. It's basically getting databases to talk to one another, so you cross reference different agencies and what they know, and you can root out fraud that way, which seems very common sense to me.

[Kelly Loeffler]

I actually independently brought on Palantir because this scale of the fraud that we're looking at is so vital that we use AI, that we are data driven in our analytics. And then we have this support externally because there's a lot of resistance internally to. Right. Sizing the federal government and tracking down fraud.

[Charlie Kirk]

How big is your staff?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Well, we've gone from about 8,000 to about 4,000 now.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wow.

[Kelly Loeffler]

So we, we do more with less. We're like a small business. We're very efficient to have the economic impact that we do. We estimate it's about a trillion dollars annually. When you take a leverage impact of putting out 100 billion a year, I should say a trillion dollars over the four year term of President Trump. And it's meaningful on Main street because small businesses create two out of every three new jobs.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I mean, I'll just be honest. I'm sort of sitting here feeling educated. I hope the audience is getting a lot out of this because I candidly didn't fixate on SBA that much. I didn't think about it that much, but it's apparent. I mean, if Trump's calling you the biggest bank in the country, that that says a lot.

[Maya Tusi]

Those banks.

[Charlie Kirk]

He knows banks.

[Kelly Loeffler]

I think he's being kind, but I think he knows how important small business and Main street is. He always says to me, kelly, small business is big business. He loves our job creators. Like I said, I just came from a construction site. Hard hats and everything. These are the people who make this country great and we've got to support them and get big government out of the way and get back to supporting free enterprise.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, in this, ridding it of this DEI stuff, this anti white garbage, ridding of it of the fraud. I mentioned Scott Besant before, let's go ahead and play this. I think this is from yesterday, the day before. He's talking about how much fraud we're dealing with. 384.

[Jonathan Alpert]

We are going to hold people accountable. Where you're going to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Press this to.

[Jonathan Alpert]

The full extent possible for American taxpayers, for American families. The gao, the General Accounting Office, believes that there is somewhere between 3 and 600 billion of annual fraud. Roughly 10% of government spending that disappears due to fraud. If we can recapture that, that is 1 to 2% of GDP.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Kelly, let's end this where Scott ended this. Economics, the, the economy, it's rip roaring. But Scott has also said we were setting the table in 2025. This year we get to enjoy the feast and banquet. Are you seeing that?

[Kelly Loeffler]

Absolutely. I see it every day. I mean, the Trump economic agenda is rocket fuel for Main street, for this country. We see GDP growth, we see wage growth, inflation coming down, interest rates coming down. These factors together with deregulating is making sure that this economy is primed for 2026 and beyond. We're just getting started. $18 trillion pouring into this country and investment. We've never seen anything like it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, and all the data centers, the AI, the crypto, the small businesses. And by the way, if you're deploying capital more efficiently to better operators and you're getting rid of this DI garbage, you're going to end up getting a bigger multiplier, force multiplier on the backside. It's going to have a bigger economic impact. Well, we're running out of time. I feel like I could keep talking to you about it for a long time, Kelly, but thank you for joining us. It's been an honor to have you in this studio. Thanks for visiting Phoenix and doing all this great work for the administration.

[Kelly Loeffler]

Thank you both.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's it. Two hours in the can.

[Blake]

Two hours. That was a quick show. Fun show.

[Charlie Kirk]

We'll see you guys tomorrow.

[Blake]

Tomorrow.

[Andrew]

This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.