The Charlie Kirk Show, November 20, 2025

Summary

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Real America’s Voice: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show—hosted in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s assassination—features executive producer Andrew Colvett, producer Blake Neff, and a rotating panel of contributors. The episode unpacks major headlines, the evolving landscape of American conservatism, and pressing policy debates from the right. Among the primary themes are immigration, recent Supreme Court decisions, coalition-building on the right, party infighting, the impact and future of healthcare policy, and notable corruption and fraud stories in American governance.

A substantial segment is devoted to Charlie Kirk’s prescient prediction about the political reunion between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, the practical and cultural implications of right-wing coalition building, and the evolving nature of American healthcare—alongside insider insight into institutional incentives and regulatory pitfalls.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supreme Court & Trump Immigration Policy

[01:40]

• Announcement that the Supreme Court has cleared the way for Donald Trump to expedite deportations using the Alien Enemies Act.
• Emphasis on targeting Venezuelan gangs and sending them to El Salvador’s mega-prison.
• Panel agrees this is a “massive legal victory” and a sign of regained control over the U.S. border.

“Our team will get to work tomorrow to deport these heinous, violent foreign terrorists from our neighborhoods.”
— Andrew Colvett [03:19]

Chicago Crime Story [01:54 – 02:26]:
Recap of a violent attack on a Chicago train and focus on repeat offenders benefiting from a lax justice system.

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2. Healthcare Policy Crisis

[03:24 – 04:13]

• Discussion about the broken healthcare system and high costs, laying blame on Democratic policies and the Affordable Care Act (ACA).
• Debunking claims that the ACA (“Obamacare”) made health insurance truly affordable.
• Critique of subsidies as unsustainable and premiums as unmanageable for most Americans.

“We spend four times more than European countries per capita on health care, and we are living seven years less.”
— Blake Neff [04:00]

• Repeated calls for a system that puts money “in the hands of the people” instead of insurance companies.
• Notably, the panel argues that Democrats pursue “state control” as a step towards communism, and that their solutions only entrench the insurance industry.

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3. Political Realignment: Trump & Musk

[07:40 – 10:56]

• The show highlights Charlie Kirk’s accurate prediction about a Trump–Musk reunion after their falling out in June 2025.
• Emphasizes the importance of coalition-building on the right, despite personal conflicts.

Notable Prediction:

“By Christmas, don’t be shocked: Elon Musk comes for dinner … Leaked New York Times, Elon Musk spotted at Mar-a-Lago.”
— Charlie Kirk (clip replayed) [10:29]

• The New York Times article confirmed the reconciliation, showing Musk and Trump at a formal White House event.

“It’s not that they’re aligned on everything. It’s what Charlie would care about—it’s being aligned on the core things.”
— Andrew Colvett [12:44]

• The segment ends with a reflection on the need for men—“two alphas”—to reconcile after conflict for the sake of bigger causes.

“We must hang together, because if not, we will surely hang separately.”
— Blake Neff [16:28]

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4. Coalition-Building, Internal Debate, and the Need for Unity

[05:05, 23:07]

• Ongoing debate about policy and strategy is vital, but should not blind conservatives to the “radical leftist movement” as the true adversary.
• JD Vance (now Vice President) is cited as calling for unity and focus following Charlie Kirk’s assassination, urging conservatives to avoid distractions and infighting that benefit Democrats.

“There are positives. We have shut down people crossing the US–Mexico border … we stopped it cold practically overnight.”
— Andrew Colvett [21:48]

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5. Immigration, Social Costs, and Illegal Entry

[24:44 – 25:18]

• The show highlights a viral Homeland Security tweet blaming a wide variety of social ills—housing prices, crime, traffic—on “tens of millions of criminal illegals.”
• Panel criticizes Democrats for not cooperating with federal authorities on deportations, arguing sanctuary policies force aggressive federal immigration enforcement.

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6. Epstein Files, Ukraine War, and Breaking News

[27:34, 51:26]

• Update: Trump signs a bill requiring the full release of DOJ files on Jeffrey Epstein within 30 days; speculation about consequences for prominent Democrats named in these files.
• Update: Trump administration’s 28-point Ukraine peace plan would require territorial and military concessions from Ukraine, with US envoys and Jared Kushner as drafters.

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7. Redistricting and the Future of Congressional Maps

[32:04 – 42:39]

• In-depth discussion with Turning Point Action COO Tyler Boyer on the “redistricting war” following Democratic gerrymandering in California and Republican responses in Texas, Florida, Indiana, and other states.
• Strategic concern: Stretching gerrymanders too thin risks flipping control during “wave” elections.
• Indiana, Texas, Florida, and Georgia are seen as key battlegrounds, with internal Republican holdouts threatening the GOP’s ability to counter Democratic gains.

“If you are an Indiana legislator that stood in the way of redistricting, there’s still time to save your political future.”
— Blake Neff [42:39]

• Panel fields listener questions about how “Gen Z” and those in blue states can get involved in TPUSA and coalition efforts even with travel constraints.

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8. Investigative Segment: Fraud and Corruption in Minnesota's Welfare Programs

Interview with Ryan Thorpe, Manhattan Institute [56:36 – 74:37]

• Thorpe discusses his explosive investigative piece, “The Largest Funder of Al Shabaab is the Minnesota Taxpayer.”
• Highlights:
  • Billions lost annually to fraud in Minnesota's welfare and Medicaid programs, with much of it funneled overseas via hawala networks to terrorist groups like Al Shabaab.
  • The Somalia-American community in Minnesota is identified as the main base for sophisticated fraud rings, enabled by lack of oversight and political fear of accusations of “racism.”
  • Autism funding example: Medicaid autism claims grew from $3M (2018) to nearly $400M (2023)—with widespread fraudulent diagnoses and providers created to siphon funds.

“If the kickbacks were too low, the parents would threaten to pull their child from one provider and take them over to a different fraudulent provider… It’s just draining resources meant for those in need.”
— Ryan Thorpe [61:03]

“There are entire government programs where the fraud outstrips the legitimate claims.”
— Ryan Thorpe [57:58]

• Structural critique: Minnesota’s “high-trust, high-welfare” culture is exploited by tribal networks from low-trust societies, with the political establishment too paralyzed to crack down.

“You bring in a different culture, you get a different culture … that thinks it’s totally valid to loot the community for everything they have.”
— Andrew Colvett [73:52]

• Conclusion: Law enforcement solutions are insufficient; systemic policy overhaul required to restore accountability.

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9. Deep Dive: The Crisis in American Healthcare

[79:15 – 98:15, Interview with "Cremu" (healthcare writer/statistician)]

• Analysis of why the US healthcare system is uniquely broken: Focus on perverse regulatory incentives rather than spending alone.
• Key issues:
  • Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) Requirements: Laws incentivize insurers to drive up total costs and discourage innovation, leading to vertical integration and opaque pricing.
  • ACA Bans on Physician-Run Hospitals: These were based on faulty evidence and limit efficiency and competition.
  • Lack of Enforcement: Laws requiring price transparency and patient access to records aren’t enforced.
  • Provider-Side Rents/Monopolies: A 1994 cap on residency slots (pushed by the AMA) artificially limits the supply of doctors, inflating provider costs.

“Most of your growth in cost is provider-side rents, and we could lower these by allowing more physicians. But the rate of growth in residency slots has been limited since 1994.”
— Cremu [88:04]

• Solutions suggested:
  • Enforce existing transparency laws.
  • End site-neutral payment schemes that let hospital chains overcharge for outpatient services.
  • Remove statutory barriers and empower regulatory agencies to innovate and enforce.
  • Import drugs from Canada to reduce prescription costs (exploring untested legal strategies).
• On immigration and costs: Only about 0.9% of healthcare cost growth can be linked to illegal immigration; main drivers are unrelated.

“You want people with pre-existing conditions to be covered; that’s a humane issue. But you could minimize cost impact by fixing the incentives and enforcing rules.”
— Cremu [96:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump–Musk Reconciliation:
  “Men fight… but President Trump has a dramatic track record of being able to reconcile with sworn enemies of MAGA. He nailed it.”
  — Andrew Colvett [14:15]

• On the Need for Right-Wing Unity:
  “We must hang together, because if not, we will surely hang separately.”
  — Blake Neff [16:28]

• On Minnesota Welfare Fraud:
  “There needs to be a policy change here—hoping law enforcement can clean this up is naive.”
  — Ryan Thorpe [71:33]

• On Healthcare System Dysfunction:
  “There are tons of things that could be fixed just by enforcing existing rules. But there’s no enforcement, and that’s the big issue.”
  — Cremu [84:50]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-----------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:40 | Supreme Court / Immigration and Crime | | 03:24 – 04:13 | Healthcare Crisis & ACA Critique | | 07:40 – 10:56 | Charlie Kirk’s Trump-Musk Prediction / Political Unity | | 12:44 | Coalition-building — “Core Things” that matter | | 23:07 | JD Vance on Right-Wing Unity Post-Kirk’s Assassination | | 24:44 – 25:18 | Social Problems Linked to Illegal Immigration | | 27:34, 51:26 | Epstein Files Release & Ukraine Peace Plan | | 32:04 – 42:39 | Redistricting Wars and GOP Electoral Strategy | | 56:36 – 74:37 | Ryan Thorpe on Minnesota Welfare Fraud / Al Shabaab | | 79:15 – 98:15 | Deep Dive: US Healthcare Dysfunction (Interview: Cremu) | | 96:28 | Humane Imperatives in Healthcare Reform |

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Tone and Style

The episode combines brisk, often combative policy critique with moments of camaraderie and dark humor. The tone is unapologetically right-leaning, direct, and sometimes caustic, especially when addressing progressive institutions, the left, or internal Republican opposition.

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In Summary

This episode is a concentrated snapshot of the current American right’s anxieties and ambitions, from immigration enforcement and welfare fraud to the existential struggle over healthcare policy and the nuts-and-bolts of electoral redistricting. Listeners get behind-the-scenes perspective on conservative coalition strategies, as well as deep dives into public policy dysfunctions and insider analysis on both political and administrative mechanics.

Whether you tune in for big-picture strategy, actionable policy suggestions, or just a bracing dose of Real America’s Voice, this episode encapsulates the present conservative mood—defiant, self-critical, focused on unity after tragedy, and committed to challenging both institutional inertia and left-wing dominance.

Transcript

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Blake Neff]

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[Terrence Bates]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Blake Neff]

Could you be more specific when it's cravinient?

[Terrence Bates]

Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the.

[Blake Neff]

Street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM. I'm seeing a pattern here. Well yeah, we're talking about what I crave, which is anything from AM pm.

[Terrence Bates]

What more could you want?

[Blake Neff]

Stop by AM PM where the snacks.

[Terrence Bates]

And drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient.

[Blake Neff]

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[Andrew Colvett]

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[Blake Neff]

This year with confidence. Learn more at allianztravelinsurance.com. The Charlie Kirk show starts now. The Supreme Court just cleared the way.

[Ryan Thorpe]

For Trump to deport illegals even faster.

[Blake Neff]

The High Court ruled that Trump can use the Alien Enemies act to send Venezuelan gang bangers to a mega prison in El Salvador. This is a massive legal victory.

[Andrew Colvett]

Jesse Just before 9:30 last night on.

[Blake Neff]

That Blue Line train, Chicago police tell us a 26 year old woman got into an argument with a man that police believe is 45 years old.

[Andrew Colvett]

That argument turned physical and at some.

[Blake Neff]

Point he threw liquid onto that woman and set her on fire. The man took off running. Now she was able to make it out of the train, but then she collapsed. Police say the fire was put out before the fire department got there. She was rushed here to Strojer in critical condition.

[Andrew Colvett]

This is Lawrence Reed's most recent booking.

[Blake Neff]

Photo, the latest in a long string of lockups.

[Andrew Colvett]

We found 49 arrests, including 10 felony cases and an active aggravated battery case from August in which Reed was accused.

[Blake Neff]

Of hitting a social worker at McNeil Psychiatric Hospital, causing loss of consciousness, two ER visits and lasting Memory issues, headaches and daily nausea. We have always maintained the position at the White House that the President was well within his constitutional authority to do so in. And this decision proves that President Trump in our administration have always been right from the beginning. He will continue to utilize the Alien Enemies act to remove foreign terrorists and trend nicuan members, vicious gang members from American communities. And because of this ruling, the United States of America is a much safer place. Our team will get to work tomorrow to deport these heinous, violent foreign terrorists from our neighborhoods. I hope that we're going to be.

[Terrence Bates]

Able to have a health care where.

[Blake Neff]

Lindsey and I were discussing it, Jim and I were discussing and Katie, we discussed it. We want a health care system where.

[Cremu]

We pay the money to the people.

[Blake Neff]

Instead of the insurance companies. And I tell you, we're going to.

[Terrence Bates]

Be working on that very hard over.

[Blake Neff]

The next short period of time.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Where the people get the money.

[Blake Neff]

We're talking about trillions and trillions of dollars. Where the people get the money.

[Cremu]

When you add up federal spending, when.

[Andrew Colvett]

You add up Medicare, Medicaid, what Social.

[Blake Neff]

Security payments go to health care, the.

[Andrew Colvett]

Military expenditure on health care, the interest.

[Blake Neff]

On the debt for health care, it's.

[Cremu]

50% of us spending.

[Blake Neff]

We spend four times more than European.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Countries per capita on health care, and.

[Blake Neff]

We are living seven years less. That point was made again and again and again. And you have right now the Democrats.

[Andrew Colvett]

Looking at that and saying, all we.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Need to do is give more money to insurance companies.

[Terrence Bates]

All we need to do is put.

[Andrew Colvett]

More money into this broken system.

[Terrence Bates]

People are not going to be able to afford their, their insurance.

[Cremu]

I don't think even with subsidies, they're going to be able to afford the.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Premiums that are hiking up 100, 200, 300%.

[Blake Neff]

Wasn't Obama supposed to fix people?

[Tyler Boyer]

No.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, not without the universal.

[Blake Neff]

I mean, there's Affordable Care Act. Affordable was the first word. But unfortunately, Democrats blew the opportunity the American people gave them.

[Terrence Bates]

We took their mandate and put all.

[Blake Neff]

Of our focus on the wrong problem, health care reform. So when we say that Democrats are communists, we don't, we don't just mean that. Well, they believe in the state control of property. We mean they've adopted a method of thinking in which any use of force is justified for their end state of power and control. They don't believe in systems. They don't believe in rules.

[Andrew Colvett]

They don't believe in laws.

[Blake Neff]

They believe in whatever keeps them in power while they matter. And they're important. I think these debates should happen. They should happen in podcasts and they should happen in media. They should happen on the op ed pages. It's totally reasonable for the people who make up this coalition to argue about what our foreign policy should be, what our specific tax policy should be, what.

[Cremu]

Our housing policy should be.

[Blake Neff]

I mean, I had a meeting just yesterday that was focused in the West Wing about how do we get housing more affordable for young Americans because of all the things that got completely out of control under the Biden administration. You had homes that doubled or tripled in price, depending on the geography, in four years under the Biden administration, we've got to solve that problem for our young people so they can afford to buy homes, start families, and actually build their own American dream. So I think my attitude is let these debates play out, but don't let the debates that you're. That we're having internally blind us to the fact that we are up against a radical leftist movement that murdered my friend a couple of months ago. And that would throw many people in the Trump administration in prison. Not for doing anything illegal, but for not following the far left agenda. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending.

[Andrew Colvett]

Hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings?

[Blake Neff]

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[Terrence Bates]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Blake Neff]

Could you be more specific?

[Terrence Bates]

When it's cravinient. Okay. Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[Blake Neff]

Grab in just a second at a.m. pM. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Terrence Bates]

Well, yeah, we're talking about.

[Blake Neff]

About what I crave, which is anything from am, pm. What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and.

[Terrence Bates]

Drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravingience.

[Blake Neff]

Am, pm. Too much good stuff. Every day is a battle for your mind. Raging information coming from every angle with.

[Terrence Bates]

The will to deceive.

[Blake Neff]

Fear not. You found the place for truth.

[Cremu]

The voice of a generation that still has the will to believe in the.

[Blake Neff]

Greatest country in the history of the world. This is the Charlie Kirk Show. Buckle up. Here we go.

[Terrence Bates]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this fine show, joined by Blake Neff, another one of the producers around here. Blake, good morning to you.

[Andrew Colvett]

Morning.

[Blake Neff]

We are, we're gonna start today's show with a Charlie Kirk prediction that has come to pass. It, it seems.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, we saw this. We know there's a lot going on, but we really wanted to flag this. I think people would like it. Yes, it's. It gets at a lot of what made people love Charlie so much, which was he was always focused on the future, on building the coalition, on finding the common ground, on beating the real bad guys, which is the insane communist anti civilization left that wants to destroy us all.

[Blake Neff]

The red Green alliance, which is what he was focused on at the end of his life. And we will remain focused on because it's remains the key threat, I believe, to our, the future of our civilization. There's many threats, but that is the key one. And of course, the prediction that we are referring to is the reunion, the reuniting of Elon Musk and President Donald Trump, which took place last night officially at a black tie dinner at the White House that was honoring Mohammed bin Salman, I guess, crown Prince.

[Andrew Colvett]

They're not. Yeah, so we are.

[Blake Neff]

We had a state dinner.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, we had a state visit of the Saudi Crown Prince, their first state visit in I think seven years. Announcing more investments of Saudi oil money into the United States, some strategic partnerships there. This is of course part of his broader push to also bring peace to the Middle East. But Elon Musk was there because Elon Musk is apparently going to be investing his own AI initiatives in data centers in Saudi Arabia. Don't need to get into all of that. The point is it was the first time Musk was at the White House since he left back in May.

[Blake Neff]

So. Well, in June 2025 is where the, the feud really took off. And of course, Elon invested about $300 million into the election of President Trump in 2024. He headed up the Doge Office of Government Efficiency in the White House. Then they had this bitter public feud.

[Andrew Colvett]

In which beautiful Bill, he said it was too much spending. He said it was. He basically said it was a dastard. He said Trump would be in the Epstein files. He was saying lots of pretty low blow stuff.

[Blake Neff]

He ended up deleting that one.

[Cremu]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And he admitted it was probably a bit too far.

[Andrew Colvett]

And so that was all blowing up. I remember the day it happened, we went live on thought crime. I think it was the normal night for it. But if it wasn't, we may have gone live just because it was so dramatic. And that was June 5th. And during that show, Charlie made this prediction. Let's play clip 2:41. Donald Trump's in a feud.

[Blake Neff]

Men fight. Big news, big deal.

[Andrew Colvett]

Get over it. Focus on the policies, focus on the victories, and they will continue.

[Ryan Thorpe]

It's all going to be okay.

[Blake Neff]

Again, I will say right here, you can mark it down by Christmas.

[Tyler Boyer]

Maybe before that, there will be like a surprise.

[Blake Neff]

Elon Musk comes for dinner, comes for dessert at Mar a Lago, you know, Leaked New York Times, Elon Musk spotted at Mar A Lago.

[Andrew Colvett]

I'm just saying if you nail that one, I, I guess I'll just be really impressed.

[Blake Neff]

I could be wrong. I'm just saying, by Christmas, don't be shocked.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, here we are. It's not even Thanksgiving yet.

[Blake Neff]

My favorite part of that is you chiming in. By the way, I barely recognized you. I've got a pretty clean, clean shaven at the time. But I love that you have to chime and be like, if you nail that one, okay, I'll be really impressed.

[Andrew Colvett]

I'm really impressed. I am really impressed. And another part of it that I think a lot of people have already realized and you mentioned, leaked New York Times. So this is the article, the New York Times two days ago, and they say, quote, september appeared to be a turning point in Mr. Musk's relationship with Mr. Trump. Musk said that he had been invited to a high profile dinner with tech executives hosted by Trump. He sent one of his aides in his place. But then Mr. Musk approached Mr. Trump at the memorial service for Charlie Kirk. They had an animated conversation with for several minutes. Yeah, we're seeing it there. That conversation they had that was captured on television. Mr. Musk, who friends say was very emotionally affected by Mr. Kirk's death, posted a picture online of the exchange. That image of that exchange, I believe it got, I think he said, for Charlie. And I think it got 76 million.

[Blake Neff]

Views, 283 right there for Charlie.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yep, 76 million.

[Blake Neff]

So I just like that picture. I remember I was backstage at the memorial and somebody showed me a picture of them and I posted it and I said, I hope that they're looking at each other saying, for Charlie. And about an hour later, Musk tweeted that for Charlie. And I can't prove it, but I like to think that Elon saw that tweet and thought, you know what?

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

And it makes my heart happy because I knew I know, and you know, how much this meant to Charlie.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yes. And it's not that they're aligned on everything. It's that it's what Charlie would care about. It's being aligned on the core things. He said there was another bid he did in July when they were still fighting. And he said, I think they're going to realize that they maybe disagree on spending, they may disagree on particulars of immigration policy. And this was, you know, Musk was talking about starting his own party, running third party. And he said, I think Musk will realize that if I just allow Zoran Mamdani or these other radical left wing lunatics to come back into power, I'm going to not get any of the changes I want on spending and I'm still going to get all of their, you know, radically anti industry, anti free market, anti American, anti white people values. They're all going to come flooding back and will destroy this country because of some personal beef that we have. And he really, he nailed that one. That we have to move on from those things. We have to be able to build our alliances, maintain those alliances, even when it's difficult. I want to play another Charlie clip here. Let's do. I think we have. Let's do clip254.

[Blake Neff]

Now it might seem as if this is irreconcilable between President Trump and Elon Musk. How could they ever come back together.

[Andrew Colvett]

After all this back and forth?

[Blake Neff]

It's just as nasty as you could imagine. And it seems as if that it's only going to increase. But President Trump has in front of us a rather dramatic and telling track.

[Andrew Colvett]

Record of being able to reconcile and.

[Blake Neff]

Work with people that were otherwise considered.

[Andrew Colvett]

To be sworn enemies of maga. He nailed it. He nailed it. We got a great email here from Kevin. He says this fulfilled prediction by Charlie is precisely the reason I said for years that Charlie was the true heir to the wisdom of Rush Limbaugh, his favorite radio host.

[Blake Neff]

Yes, he was.

[Andrew Colvett]

And prayers as you continue to fight for what Charlie was fighting for. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. And anyone else who has thoughts, please email us Freedom at Charlie.

[Blake Neff]

We're trying to get our email reading game back on track. Yesterday we didn't get to as many as we wanted to. So today, Please send emails freedomarliekirk.com you know, this all reminds me, by the way, I have not stopped thinking about Helen Andrews. Our interview. If you haven't seen it, please check it out on the podcast. Wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, wherever it was A really important conversation. I love that it was coming from a woman because one of the things she talked about, we'd have been in trouble. But so she writes in this article, it was the great feminization. And this is a particular skill set of men. Now, we love you women. You guys are truly important. We have a bunch of ladies that work on this team, and they are amazing. But this is one of the pieces she wrote in this, she's. And she's talked about how men, over time, have developed customs and approaches to war. And this reminds me of Elon and Trump and. And Charlie understood this. He said, she says the point of war is to settle disputes between two tribes, but it only works if peace is restored after the dispute is settled. Men therefore, develop methods for reconciling with opponents and learning to live in peace with people they were fighting yesterday. Females, even in primate species, are slower to reconcile than males. And this is a guy thing. And Charlie, he genuinely understood.

[Andrew Colvett]

I think it's because he went through so many of these.

[Blake Neff]

So many.

[Andrew Colvett]

We'd see some of those that were behind the scenes. Just. You'd have the grind, the fighting. You'd have these, like, attacks, and it'd.

[Cremu]

Be a fake out.

[Andrew Colvett]

Oh, no, actually, we don't want this fight. And he saw that and he was, you know, he told the audience about it.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. And you could tell it was two alphas, like, you know, raging against one another. You know, Trump's threatening to hold down each other again.

[Andrew Colvett]

They might. They might fight again.

[Blake Neff]

They might. This is. This doesn't have to be forever. But here's the thing. What did Elon said? We must hang together, because if not, we will surely hang separately. And that is. That is absolutely true. We need each other. The movement needs each other. I think there is a purging. I'm going to make my own prediction here. There's a lot of talking about the infighting on the right, especially in the wake of Charlie's death. We will come back together. There is a purging, there is a flexing, there is a consternation happening, and that is sometimes really healthy. We will come back together. You watch. You watch. All right. Connection, open dialogue. These are things that build communities. Charlie, Kirk, and TikTok share in that knowledge. That's why TikTok has built a space where that kind of listening actually happens. People don't just post, they respond. They build on each other's ideas. You see a teacher simplifying a tough lesson, so it finally clicks. For students or gardeners sharing a trick that saved their crop. But what matters most isn't the video. It's what comes next. Someone asking a question, someone else answering a story with a story of their own. And suddenly people who've never met become a community built on mutual understanding, curiosity, all those. Those wonderful things. Walls come down. This is what listening does. It reminds us all that we're not as different as we may think. And that's what makes TikTok so powerful. It's a place where every post can turn into a conversation and every conversation can make a huge difference. So join the conversation with us. Send us your thoughts. Freedom Charlie Kirk.com Freedom Charlie Kirk.com we will be right back. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending.

[Andrew Colvett]

Hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings?

[Blake Neff]

Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busy work finding leads, drafting emails, and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today. Hey, this is Sarah.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and.

[Blake Neff]

All, but I found something more fulfilling.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure, you met some of my dietary.

[Blake Neff]

Needs, but they've just got it all.

[Ryan Thorpe]

So farewell.

[Tyler Boyer]

Oatmeal.

[Blake Neff]

So long you strange soggy.

[Terrence Bates]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste.

[Blake Neff]

AMPM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with cage free eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AM P M. Too much good stuff. We will not comply. You're listening to the Sound of freedom. It's the Charlie Kirk Show. All right. Private student debt in the United states totals about $300 billion and about 45 billion is labeled as distress. That's right, 45 billion. That means wherever you are, there's going to be somebody you know that has a ton of private student loan debt. And guess what? Most institutions will not touch them. But Y Refi does. They will help you with distressed or defaulted private student loans that others want nothing to do with. Y Refi is not a debt settlement company and they work with each borrower individually. And this is the key tailoring loan to each borrower specific situation you will not be calling a faceless call center. Why? Refi can reduce your monthly payment and guarantees interest rates under 6% ensuring affordability and financial relief. They do not care what your credit score is. So if you have a terrible credit situation, if you're been missing payments, late on payments and your credit scores in the tank, they don't care. They will work with you. So when the payment on your distressed or default to private student loan is so big that you can never get ahead in your finances, Y refi is surely your best option. Not only that, they're great patriots. Support this show. Support Turning Point USA. That Charlie loved him, man. That's for sure. Go to 888 Y refi 34 or log on to yrefi.com y R-E-F-Y.com we'll be right back. All right. Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. So Elon Musk and President Donald Trump are reunited. I think this is a very good sign. So as we're talking about all of this, you know, I would say distractions when we're talking about the things that are separating us or dividing the coalition on the right. You know, I hear this all the time. Time, Blake, I'm sure that you do as well that we are sort of a mess in the wake of Charlie's assassination. That there is, we're lacking that leading voice, that, that guiding light. A lot of people think JD Vance could be that. And he's actually at a, an event this morning with Breitbart that they're doing in D.C. and he's talking about a lot of these things. He's saying, hey, don't let this distraction get us in the way of understanding who the real enemy is. Right. Because if we, if the Democrats get power again, which right now we are on track for that to happen, I want everybody to be very clear that we are. If you look at all the polling, all of this, Trump's not doing as bad as Obama was in his second term. That's true. Or even George W. Bush. But we are, we're at a Nader. There's, there's a lot of bad vibes out there. Would you agree, Blake? Yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

It's just that people are certainly within our own coalition. People are frustrated with the election results we just had. People are, they're worried about the economy. I think some of this is just, it's stuff that's been continuing for several years and it's not going to be fixed overnight. And there are people frustrated with the courts have blocked a lot of the most ambitious things Trump wants to do. People, a lot of people want there to be more deportations. There's a lot of everyone, people can pick things to be aggrieved about. And one thing that happens when there's a bad vibe, as you say, is people decide to fixate on whatever they want to be aggrieved about rather than positives. And there are positives. I think it's always worth reemphasizing to people. This is all happening in an environment where we have shut down people crossing the US Mexico border. We had this open wound that a million plus people were pouring over, 2 million maybe pouring over every single year, no limit, no intention to ever stop it. And we stopped it cold practically overnight. There used to be that Darien Gap. We'd have people go there and do documentary episodes of the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people pouring over into Panama from China, Africa, Southeast Asia, like all these places, and it's just gone. No one's doing it anymore.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, no. And this is. I totally agree. And we're also rooting out a lot of the visa issues. We put $100,000 basically fee on H1BS. So we are making progress. Everybody needs to just remember that. But here's the reason why we want to talk about Elon Musk is because sometimes there's these critical initiating events that happen and you can look back on them later and you can say that was the moment that we started turning the corner and getting back on track. And I don't think it's a coincidence that this morning JD Vance is also talking about some of the same things. Keeping the main thing, the main thing and bringing it back to what happened to Charlie is a really important clip to 87. I think my attitude is let these debates play out, but don't let the debates that you're.

[Cremu]

That we're having internally blind us to.

[Blake Neff]

The fact that, that we are up against a radical leftist movement that murdered my friend a couple of months ago. And that would throw many people in the Trump administration in prison, not for doing anything illegal, but for not following the far left's agenda. And then as if we. We're already not spoiled for. For good news. I just took this as a personal sign, Blake, because sometimes I call you contrarian Blake. It's true. I. It's why we love you. But then you. Or it just depends on the day. There's always love. There's always love. But sometimes it's like, come on, Blake, throw up. Image 285. So Blake goes, hey, did you see that? Homeland Security.

[Andrew Colvett]

It's a really good one.

[Blake Neff]

It's really, really good one. And I was like, wait, so it's not Cringe, Blake. He's like, yeah, it wasn't cringe.

[Andrew Colvett]

Sometimes I go a little too far. But this is a perfect one. This is perfect.

[Blake Neff]

So, so this is a tweet that went out from Homeland Security. I happen to like their Twitter feed, but they say rent is too high. There are tens of millions of criminal illegals in our country. Groceries cost too much. There are tens of millions of criminal illegals in our country. There aren't enough jobs. There are tens of millions of criminal illegals in our country. And on and on it goes. Women don't feel safe. Traffic is terrible. Health care is too expensive.

[Andrew Colvett]

That's a big one, a very big one.

[Blake Neff]

Welfare spending is through the roof. I can't afford a car, I can't afford a house. And it ends with There are tens of millions of criminal illegals in our country. Many problems. A simple answer, and it really is.

[Andrew Colvett]

For so many of them, healthcare expensive. There's this entire shadow world of millions of people where they get free single payer healthcare through the system of show up at an emergency room, get treated, blow off any payment attempt, never, often never give your name and oh, it's just paid for by taxpayers. And they get, obviously they blowed up the housing market. They do so many things and yeah, there's a simple switch. Have the criminal illegals who have come into your country go home.

[Blake Neff]

Yep. And by the way, there's another piece to this where they get all mad at the criminal raids or these illegal alien, the raids that are going on in la, Memphis, now Charlotte, North Carolina, Chicago. And there's a very simple solution to this, Democrats. If you don't like the raids on the streets, cooperate with ice. When you pull these people over and you've got them in custody already, hand them over when there's a detainer. It's as simple as that. If you don't want ICE raiding your, your seat, your streets, cooperate with them in the safety of your own confines. Custody. We'll be right back. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending.

[Andrew Colvett]

Hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings?

[Blake Neff]

Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busy work finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today.

[Andrew Colvett]

This is the story of the 1.

[Blake Neff]

As a custodial supervisor at a high.

[Andrew Colvett]

School, he knows that during cold and.

[Blake Neff]

Flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to.

[Andrew Colvett]

Stay fully stocked on the products and.

[Blake Neff]

Supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers, all so that he can help students, staff and teachers stay healthy and focused.

[Andrew Colvett]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop.

[Blake Neff]

By Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Terrence Bates]

Welcome back to this real america. Welcome back to america's Voice news break. I'm Terrence Bates. Now that President Trump has signed the bill forcing the Justice Department to release all of its files on Jeffrey Epstein, the DOJ has 30 days to comply. The trove of documents should include all files and communications related to the disgraced child predator, as well as any information about the investigation into his death. Some information about victims could be redacted for ongoing federal investigations, but investigators cannot withhold information due to, quote, embarrassment, reputational harm or political sensitivity. A federal judge who has reviewed the case says there are about 100,000 pages to release. Taken to Truth Social. After signing the bill, President Trump began naming names and pointing fingers at Democrats who were associates of Epstein. In this Truth Social post, he writes, quote, Democrat figures such as Bill Clinton, who was on the plane numerous times Larry Summers, who of course has been let go from various boards including Harvard sleazebag political activist Reid Hoffman, Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who he says took money from Epstein, Democrat Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett, and many more. Perhaps the truth about these Democrats and their associations with Jeffrey Epstein will soon be revealed. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky meeting with a U.S. army delegation in Ukraine today. The meeting comes as the Trump administration is out with a 28 point peace plan aimed at ending the war between Russia and Ukraine. The agreement would reportedly see Ukraine give up some of its land and weapons, including cutting the size of Ukraine's military. President Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff, along with Vice President J.D. vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and the president's son in law, Jared Kushner are said to have been instrumental in drafting this proposal. The plan is just now being presented to Ukrainian officials and reportedly leaves room for negotiation. This latest attempt at bringing peace to the region comes after Russian missiles and drones just killed at least 25 people in the latest round of fighting. That's a quick check of your headlines. As always, we appreciate having you along for the ride. Now back to the Charlie Kirk show.

[Blake Neff]

On air and on fire for the.

[Cremu]

Preservation of our nation.

[Blake Neff]

The CHARLIE Kirk show.

[Terrence Bates]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

We're about to get into Turning Point Action with Tyler Boyer and redistricting. So we've got a lot there. Send us your questions. Freedom Charlie Kirk.com Freedom Charlie Kirk.com we'll probably do a little news, tell you about what kind of some of the stuff we're working on in this first segment. Now in segment two, we're going to take your questions. So first I want to tell you about Hillsdale College. History, economics, great works of literature. Did you study these things in school? Probably not. But even if you did, it's probably time for an enjoyable refresher. Let the good folks at Hillsdale College help you with that. They have 40 free, over 40 free online courses, including their newest course on totalitarian novels. It's a free eight lecture course taught by Dr. Larryon, who's the president of the school. He goes in depth on 1984, Brave New World, Darkness at Newton, that Hideous Strength. These are novels that were written, written in the 30s and 40s, but they're probably more relevant today than they've ever been because they explain how tyrannical government can impact human nature in our daily lives. So more importantly, they can show us that faith, family and friends are worth fighting for. And that's really true. These, these novels go really deep in this. So maybe you read these books in school, maybe you've heard others talk about them and they seem a little intimidating. They don't have to be intimidating. Let Hillsdale College get the most out of them for you. Go right now to charlieforhillsdale.com to enroll. There's no cost. It's easy to get started. That's Charlie for hillsdale.com to register. C h a r l I e 4 hillsdale.com all right, Tyler, we're talking about redistricting. This is a fight that's going on in the country right now and a lot of people are unaware of it. I mean, we hear about Prop 50 in, in California and the Texas redistricting fight made a lot of news. But there are other states that are really important. Give us the update. Where do we stand right now?

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, Andrew, it's been actually crazy in the background right now because there's a lot of states that are wholly Republican dominant that are not being helpful whatsoever in the fight against Gavin Newsom and what they've done in California. So as a recap for everyone, Gavin Newsom, we know they just passed the prop for redistricting. They're going to take away essentially five plus Republican seats off the table pretty clearly. And the Only way that you can combat that is with our big Republican states and then a bunch of these other smaller Republican states that can kind of cobble together to help offset this really manipulative hijacking of the electoral system that Gavin Newsom has entered into. And this is all important because, remember, Gavin is doing this in part because this is helpful to him and looking like the savior for the Democrat Party as he tries to run for president in 2028. So, so everything's interconnected. It's all possible. Right now, Indiana, who has Republican state senators in districts that Trump won by 20 to 30 points that are pushing back on redistricting to gain net two seats. So Indiana, one of the historically most Republican states in the country, outside of the sad Obama blip that happened in 2008. But that was a, that was a. They swear that was not normal. It really has been one of the most Republican states that we have in the nation, really has also very Republican metropolitan areas. And there is real justification for a solid through and through red state plan map, if you map it out very fairly, very squarely for that. But because of the way the process that redistricting works on, and everybody that's a listener needs to become very familiar with this terminology, majority minority districts. So what the Democrats have been doing now for many decades is they've been pushing this concept through lawfare of remapping every state around majority minority districts, meaning that they have to consequentially gerrymander districts to include populations that have their large populations. In your state of minority communities, this would be Hispanic.

[Andrew Colvett]

This is the classic Voting Rights Act.

[Tyler Boyer]

This is the Voting Rights act argument that's being discussed. We won't probably get into the details of it now, but we will probably start to tear this apart over the next year. But essentially, the big ones in America, obviously, are the Hispanic communities, black communities and Native American communities in certain areas. Now, Native Americans haven't made up too many, so you haven't seen too many of that. But here in Arizona, you have an argument for one Oklahoma level, a lot. Yeah, you see the state level. That's right. That's right. State level, it happens a lot more frequently. But the, the black community argument, Hispanic community, now as Democrats are starting to lose Hispanics, they become much less interested in Hispanic communities. And this is where it's, it's becoming. Well, a lot of Hispanics are actually saying, like, yeah, we don't need to do this. We don't need to just encompass. And they use this to cheat, to essentially just Gerrymander more Democrat voters that just happen to be from those minority communities.

[Blake Neff]

So where is that process at now? Because Texas enacts a new map that was basically going to wipe out all the gains they're going to get in California, but then a judge blocks them.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

Right. And so that is. Now maybe, Blake, I don't know either one of you can answer this. What is the next step in that process? So this just broke this week that a federal.

[Tyler Boyer]

What can we throw in the Florida piece real quick? So while this is all going on, Florida stepped in and like, no worries, guys. We're going to actually add another five Republican seats. So they're in the process of this.

[Andrew Colvett]

This gets really risky. Like, if you're adding to. Once you. The thing about gerrymandering that a lot of people don't get is if you stretch it too hard, you're basically making it. So let's say, for example, let's say in Texas, you made it so every single district exactly matched the state's vote in the last presidential election, just hypothetically. Well, okay, that means, yeah, you won. We won Texas pretty handily. But there are elections where you only win Texas by five points or six. And you can imagine the situation where you would just lose Texas. Like, it's, it's plausible. If you get in a really bad wipeout, you could lose Texas.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, like a 2008 Obama.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, 2008 Obama. And then like you do really bad in the House or something, and suddenly you'd get to that point where what happens is you win more seats until suddenly you start losing them and then you can lose a lot.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. So you always lose more seats, too.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, because there's more.

[Tyler Boyer]

Because they're taking in for the, the viewers at home, the listeners at home, is that you're taking districts that are 10 to 15 points on average, plus for Trump, you know, or plus Republican. You look at two different ways. How many points did Trump win by the last presidential. Or whoever's the last presidential candidate? And then how many more Republican voters do you have than Democrat voters? The real thing that's in the air is in a lot of these states, Texas included, is you have a lot more independents now than you ever did before. And actually, I owe a phone call back to a North Carolinian. North Carolina is a good example of this historically Republican state, tons of independent voters. So if you start messing with the. The districts too much, like Blake's saying, you might end up in a situation where you have a new community of a lot younger People who aren't registering Republican, they're more independent, that are harder to target and then they're harder to turn out.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And Florida is a good example, actually. If you. Florida right now feels very red to us. It's moved red over time, but. Plus 1,000,212 it voted democrat in a presidential election. Yeah. The first time Ron DeSantis ran, he beat Andrew Gillum by 36,000. Extremely narrow. Think about how much history ended up changing on those 30,000 or whatever votes.

[Tyler Boyer]

This is why. This is why ballot chasing matters.

[Andrew Colvett]

That's why ballot chasing matters, because you.

[Tyler Boyer]

Win by a little bit, you can swing a state for decades.

[Blake Neff]

What did he win on his second election? It was like almost 2 million votes. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

He wanted massive landslide and.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, huge landslide.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

And so you were asking what's next in this Texas case? So this panel said Texas is illegal racial gerrymandering, whatever. Now it's a sort of special one. Usually when you have these court cases in the federal level, it would go district circuit supreme with these specific election law related cases. They have an accelerated process. So the appeal is directly to the Supreme Court. I've talked to some people familiar with the Supreme Court who've been clerks and such. They think the Supreme Court would probably side with us. But it's a matter of speed because your filing deadlines in Texas, for example, are coming up here in just a couple weeks. So you would need the Supreme Court to weigh in very quickly. Or they might just be stuck with their old House map for matters of practicality, which that's a lot of what this is about. This Texas House map was because they specifically wanted it for this midterm cycle. And if it only kicks in in 2028, well then, you know, you're only two years away from a census anyway.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. Throw up this image, by the way. This is A. The 291. This is the state's considering congressional redistricting. You can look on my computer here if you want, Tyler. But so we've got California. They pass Prop 50. How many do you approximately how many.

[Tyler Boyer]

Seats are they going to get right now? The estimation is five.

[Blake Neff]

So five. They're going to get five. How many would Texas get if we get this in time for the midterms?

[Andrew Colvett]

The plan was five, I believe, and.

[Tyler Boyer]

Florida five is arguing.

[Blake Neff]

So we would be. If we get Texas corrected, we're going to be net five versus Texas and.

[Tyler Boyer]

Florida together would be plus ten. Indiana's plus two.

[Blake Neff]

Ohio as well. Right. It's not on this map.

[Tyler Boyer]

So Ohio is probably not, not going to change.

[Blake Neff]

But I've heard that they can get two more seats.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, there's an argument for it that they can. Going back to Blake's point, the question.

[Blake Neff]

Is, should they, Especially with Vivek running even or maybe slightly behind because they're.

[Tyler Boyer]

Not in a safe of a spot.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, fair enough. What's the story, what's the story with Missouri? They already pass new maps.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, that I don't have. The, the total update I'll get. I'll touch up base with our Missouri people. We can do a follow up this next week on Missouri and how that's going.

[Andrew Colvett]

And then I saw that at a Maryland House map there. I know that that's a Democrat state. Of course, I think they usually have one Republican seat, so it would probably be an attempt to zero that one.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, it's one.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. So then, then there's Nebraska and Kansas. So Kansas could redraw their maps. Nebraska could get the winner take all kind of energy and maybe.

[Tyler Boyer]

Which we have no faith in.

[Blake Neff]

Well, there's still one shot.

[Andrew Colvett]

But as is, there's still three Republicans right now. Right. I don't think we'd get new seats. It would just secure.

[Tyler Boyer]

They're worried about Don Bacon.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah.

[Tyler Boyer]

It's basically assumed they get better. Well, well, that, well, it's not a red seat. So it's a plus, like three or four Dem seat that Don Bacon just.

[Blake Neff]

Says one because he's a moderate.

[Tyler Boyer]

But Don Bacon's retiring. And so the fear is that they're going to lose if they don't redistrict. Yes, they're going to lose that seat.

[Blake Neff]

So, so in, so go zero in on Indiana now. Yeah, Indiana, there is a push to. Because they had a chance to redistrict. They failed. One minute left.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah. So right now, the state Senate, I mean, they still can do it, but there's essentially holdouts of about. It depends on the day. But we have about five or six state senators that are holding out. The White House came out really strong. The president came out really strong. Like, hey, we're going to find people to challenge these people. And there's good conservatives in Indiana across the state. I mean, we're talking in each of these districts, you're going to, we, we need the audience to start to get to know these people because we need to replace them. So we're talking, we're not talking districts where Trump won by five or six. We're talking districts that Trump won by 30 or 40 points.

[Blake Neff]

Jeez.

[Tyler Boyer]

And so the president feels very strongly that we can find the right people. Turning Point Action will help them. We'll help the president and identify some of these people and get the word out.

[Blake Neff]

All right, so we need to know how to help and what to do next.

[Tyler Boyer]

So, well, Indiana can still fix this. They could still get the redistricting done, avoid all of that conflict and just get it over with.

[Blake Neff]

So if you are an Indiana legislator that stood in the way of the redistricting fight, there's still time to save your political future. This does not have to go this way, but we got to save the, we got to save the Republic. It's too important. All right, I'm going to tell you guys really quickly again, send us your emails. Freedom Charlie Kirk.com Questions for Turning Point Action. And we want to hear about them be silenced. You're listening to the Charlie Kirk Show. All right. Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. Email us freedom charliekirk.com questions for Turning Point Action COO Tyler Boyer. We've got a first one.

[Andrew Colvett]

We do, we do. We have Ellie. And she says to Tyler, my question for you is a pretty common one. How would you recommend a Gen Z who's not in high school or college get involved with TPUSA or TP Action? And she adds, unfortunately I can't travel right now and I live in a very liberal blue state where people don't want to talk about Charlie. So I think that is a question we get a lot. Blue state, not actively in college, can't travel. What can I do to help out?

[Tyler Boyer]

There's always two answers. One is Turning Point Action. So you go to tpaction.com getinvolved you can sign up right there. We walk you through the individual steps that you can do first, starting with downloading the Turning Point Action app so that we can start to engage you. Obviously, if you can't travel, you can do a lot remotely from there. We're starting to work on putting bodies in more states, more full time staff and hiring full time staff even in what we call our secondary and tertiary states so that we can help manage coalitions. So if you go to coalitions.com, we own coalitions.com that's coalitions.com coalitions.com you can sign up and be part of an activist organization that is kind of like our chapter model for adults. So that's Moms Coalition, Farmers and Ranchers, our Black Americans Coalition, our Healthy Americans Coalition. So if you're Maha, our Healthy Americans coalition is great. If you're more senior, our classic Americans. So we're bringing together, you know, our more senior activists together as well.

[Blake Neff]

Do we ever get them all together?

[Cremu]

Yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

So we do events in the coalition of coalitions.

[Tyler Boyer]

So our coalitions, that's part of what they do is they spend all the entire election cycle getting together, building relationships. So then once we're ready to go, they deploy and go out and help us chase ballots and target precincts.

[Blake Neff]

I got a question about Georgia. So think about that, Tyler. This is from Sunny said Steve Bannon was talking about Georgia could pick up five. That sounds very optimistic. But we're going to throw that to Tyler when we get back with radio in about five seconds. Don't go anywhere.

[Terrence Bates]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

Welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. Got Tyler Boyer here. We got a question from Sunny Tyler. She says several weeks ago, Steve Bannon was talking about Georgia and how it can pick up five seats. Is that true?

[Tyler Boyer]

So this is part of the problem with majority minority districts. So again, Georgia's at the epicenter of that problem, which is that you have the, the lawfare that's been used in the electoral process to give majority minority in this case and in Georgia, black districts. So keep this in mind that with the lawfare. So if the Trump administration is able to undo that, then the answer to that question is yes, you could actually game back.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, I will, I will add some caution because right Now Georgia is nine Republicans, five Democrats, 14 total seats. So if you were to gerrymander every single Democrat out, you'd be, like I said, you'd basically be looking at the state average. Well, the idea, we lost Georgia in 2020.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. The idea would barely want it in 2020.

[Andrew Colvett]

So you'd be, that'd be where you'd be very close to that risk point.

[Tyler Boyer]

Of they flip all 14 seats that, that you redistricted. You know, you got rid of majority minority districts, which you could make the opposite argument that the Democrats are gerrymandering some of these districts, that you shouldn't have five Democrat seats there. It should be more like three or four.

[Andrew Colvett]

Get it to, I think you could get it to four.

[Blake Neff]

One or two would be great.

[Tyler Boyer]

Arizona is a similar situation where we have like a pretty conservative state for the Republican side. If we get 11 congressional seats here this next election cycle, you can make the argument that Arizona is a 9, 2 seat, but it's the safer, more.

[Blake Neff]

Realistic, like 8, 3. Yeah. Kristen says, hi, guys, I'm an Indiana resident. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to help with the redistricting push.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, absolutely. We actually have links that are going out. We had a link that was up for Turning point action. It's tpaction.com.

[Blake Neff]

I believe.

[Tyler Boyer]

Hang on here. I'll pull the link in just one second.

[Terrence Bates]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

Well, while you get that, James says you guys are forgetting Spanberger has already said she will redistrict Virginia to go to 10 blue seats and one Red Sea. Do we know what that's about?

[Andrew Colvett]

So that is a proposal. I think they've even claimed they can do it. Now, I believe if they don't 100% rig their courts, which they could, it is difficult to redistrict in Virginia because I think they went to a nonpartisan system by constitutional amendment and they'd have to vote twice, like two times in a row and hold a referendum. They have to do a lot if they were going to do it by this next election. But they're going to try. They are very inventive about these things.

[Blake Neff]

I do have a non redistricting question that I want to get to while you pull up those links. Tyler, this is from Kelly. It's a fair question because I know there's confusion about it says, hi, guys. Listening to the show today about the reunion between Musk and Trump and wondering why TPUSA is not doing the same with Tim Pool. That is an interesting question, I understand, because Tim has said that he's not coming to Amfest. We actually were in the process of making sure that we could do it from a production standpoint. I was literally. We were about to give him like the green light. We want to do this on the day that he posted a video saying he wasn't coming. So we're trying to work with him to get that fixed because we had every intention of wanting to do that moving forward. You know, he's got a very busy schedule. I think he was hoping for the answer sooner than we were able to give it to him. But we certainly want him to be there. We've had a three year run with him at Amfest. It's been very successful. So we want to do it and we're working on seeing if it was.

[Andrew Colvett]

Not a calculated snub.

[Blake Neff]

It was not a calculated snub. Well said. It was not intended to be any type of snub. What happened was as soon as Charlie was assassinated, I'm sure everybody can understand this. Tickets sold out at Amfest and everybody in the conservative movement said, I want to speak at Amfest. And so we, we got overbooked. Even from a speaker standpoint, very, very rapidly. And so in order to do Tim's show, which happens at a very specific time every day on a Friday, we would have had to sort of, we just had to kind of figure out how we were going to do it. And actually we had a good plan. I think Tim would be down with the plan. So hopefully we can get it done.

[Tyler Boyer]

And we also, I, I had texted you, I was like, we gotta get Tim Pool there. And then.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, like that morning. And I said I'm working on it.

[Tyler Boyer]

Yeah, I mean, obviously we've had a lot going on. And I want to say this too is we've had a lot going on with everybody. We have more people that we're actually telling no to for America Fest because literally there's going to be like 50,000 people there. Plus everybody wants to speak and everybody.

[Blake Neff]

Wants not that many.

[Tyler Boyer]

We're going to probably have. I'll do the Charlie Kirk thing. We're probably going to have a hundred thousand people.

[Blake Neff]

You're going to freak out our events, David, if you say that.

[Andrew Colvett]

No, but there's literally million people will.

[Tyler Boyer]

Be in and around.

[Blake Neff]

In and around. Maybe. Yeah. Okay, here's another one. Indiana redistricting. Trump threatened those Republicans in Indiana against redistricting that if they don't change their vote, they will get primaried. Governor Mike Braun is doing an excellent job. He has the Dems in Indianapolis to contend with, but he's staying the course. That's from Carol. Good for you, Carol. Oh, Census.

[Andrew Colvett]

William Bill. Bill says any updates on running a new census?

[Blake Neff]

I was literally thinking about that.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, so the difficulty with a new census is you can't just snap your fingers and do a census. It's actually like a, I think it costs $20 billion to do the census. You have to hire a bunch of people. So unfortunately you would need Congress to actually vote to do it. So it's one of many things, I guess you could do it if we, for example, if we abolished the filibuster and rammed it through, then maybe, but.

[Blake Neff]

We gotta take a break here. Hour two Coming up next.

[Terrence Bates]

Card debt has hit an all time high in America and the system is rigged to keep you paying interest forever. But you don't have to be trapped in that cycle. Iconic Debt Relief is helping people reduce their payments and break free of the banks. They explain everything step by step with total transparency. If you've got more than $10,000 in credit card debt, do not wait. Instead, call Iconic Debt Relief right now. It could be the most important call you make this year, go to IconicDebtRelief.com RAV TV or call 833-408-3828. That's 833-408-3828. If you don't want to do any of those things, just scan the QR code right there at the bottom of your screen and follow all of the the prompts. Terrance Bates here with your Real America's Voice news break. Thanks so much for being along for the ride. We are getting ready for the latest White House press briefing. It's set to get underway here in short order. Here's a live look at the press briefing room. We're expecting that Caroline Levitt will take the podium here within the next 10 to 15 minutes or so. Many of the questions very likely will have to do with the release of the Jeffrey episode Epstein Files. There may also be some questions about the economy specifically as it relates to President Trump's meeting. Yes. This week, let's just put it that way, with Saudi Arabia's crown prince. And then you can also expect probably some economy questions relative to the cost of Thanksgiving meals this year. We, of course, will take this live for you the moment it happens. So stay tuned here on Real America's Voice. In the meantime, now that President Trump has signed the bill forcing the Justice Department to release all of its files on Jeffrey Epstein, the DOJ has 30 days to comply. The trove of documents should include all files and communications related to the disgraced child predator as well as any information about the investigation into his death. Some information about victims could be redacted for ongoing federal investigations, but investigators can't withhold information due to, quote, embarrassment, reputational harm or political sensitivity. A federal judge who has reviewed the case says there are about 100,000 pages to release. Taking to Truth Social. After signing the bill, President Trump began naming names and pointing fingers at Democrats who were associates of Epstein. In this Truth Social post, he writes, quote, Democrat figures such as Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, slee, excuse me, sleazebag. Political activist Reid Hoffman, Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett, and many more. Perhaps the truth about these Democrats and their associations with Jeffrey Epstein will soon be revealed. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy meeting with a U.S. army delegation in Ukraine today. The meeting comes as the Trump administration is out with a 28 point peace plan aimed at ending the war between Russia and Ukraine. The agreement will reportedly see Ukraine give up some of its land and weapons, including cutting the size of Ukraine's military. President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, along with Vice President J.D. vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and the president's son in law, Jared Kushner, are said to have been instrumental in drafting this proposal. The plan is just now being presented to Ukrainian officials and reportedly does leave some room for negotiation. This latest attempt at bringing peace to the region comes after Russian missiles and drones just killed at least 25 people in the latest round of fighting. A Chicago man accused of pouring gasoline on a fellow train passenger and lighting her on fire is now charged with terrorist charges. This morning, federal Prosecutors say the 50 year old was caught on surveillance video chasing the 26 year old victim through the train while trying to ignite her. Chicago police say when they arrested the guy on Tuesday, he made incriminating statements and during his initial court hearing Wednesday, he also yelled out, I plead guilty. That's a quote. The plea isn't official at this point. Investigators say that he has a long criminal history and should not have been free to commit this crime. If convicted, the suspect faces up to life in prison should the victim die from her injuries. Prosecutors say the victim could be eligible for, or, I'm sorry, the suspect could be eligible for the death penalty. However, Illinois abolished capital punishment back in 2011. That's a quick check of your headlines. I'm Terence Bishop. Dates.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

Welcome to hour two of the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvit, executive producer of this show, along with Blake Neff. Really exciting hour, too, actually. We're gonna get a little deeper, more, I don't want to say philosophical, but this is going to be a smart elevated hour because we're, we're talking about some of these themes in American life, especially the modern American life that kind of go under the radar, but they're having a profound impact on your taxes, the way your government spend money, some of the fraud that's happening. We just had a congresswoman out of Florida who was A grand jury returned an indictment charging her for stealing $5 million of COVID funds. So this is kind of a story in that realm. We're gonna welcome Ryan Thorpe. He's an investigative journalist with Manhattan Institute. He's got a new piece he co authored with Chris Rufo at City Journal, and it's entitled the Largest Funder of Al Shabaab is the Minnesota Taxpayer.

[Andrew Colvett]

Al Shabaab, of course, is a radical Islamic terrorist group in Somalia.

[Blake Neff]

Somalia.

[Andrew Colvett]

We have a lot of Somalis in Minnesota and we've hit this beat a few times. That There's a lot of fraud of various kinds that goes on because it's an insular community. But this piece really lays out how a lot of it works. So, Ryan, are you there?

[Ryan Thorpe]

I am. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Andrew Colvett]

Thank you very much. So, Ryan, how about you just dive into it? Al Shabaab, largest funder Minnesota taxpayer. What do you mean by that?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, so what we're seeing in Minnesota is that there's billions of dollars of fraud going on, particularly targeting government welfare programs. The fraud has gotten so bad that the U.S. attorney's office has indicated that there are entire government welfare programs where the fraud outstrips the legitimate claims. These large scale fraud rings to date have largely been concentrated in Minnesota's Somali community. But this is an inconvenient fact that progressive politicians in Minnesota and I would also say the mainstream media has been unwilling or unable to acknowledge. And over the course of our investigation for City Journal, we developed several counterterrorism sources, law enforcement sources, who confirmed to us that some of these stolen funds, millions of dollars, are being sent abroad through hawala networks, which are informal money transfer networks that are popular in Islamic countries. This money has then gone overseas and some of that money has ended up in the hands of Al Shabab to the point that one of our sources said the largest funder of Al Shabab is the Minnesota taxpayer.

[Blake Neff]

Well, can I just read. I just want to give your, your you some kudos here, Ryan, because this is your opening. You had me at hello kind of moment. Your opening to this article is just so blunt and to the point. I love it. I have to read it. Minnesota is drowning in fraud. Billions in taxpayer dollars have been stolen during the administration of Governor Tim Waltz alone. Democrat state officials overseeing one of the most generous welfare regimes in the country are asleep at the switch. And the media, duty bound by progressive piety, refused to connect the dots. I mean it's just, I want really.

[Andrew Colvett]

Direct, I want to flag the numbers on here. So this is one, this is so incredible. We're having CREMEU on next to talk about healthcare. And when he came out on the show with Charlie a few months ago, one of the things he said is he's like he says, I think the number the growth of autism in America is overstated because they over diagnose it. And the example he said is he said in Minnesota, Somalis are just scamming the autism system to get a ton of money. And this is a quote, I want to read this. So like with another program, autism Claims to Medicaid in Minnesota have skyrocketed from $3 million in 2018, 3 million to, I'm going to abbreviate it, 399 million in 2023. So they went up more than 100 times over in five years. And it mentions the number of autism providers went from 41 to 328. And then it says the Somali community has established autism treatment centers for culturally appropriate programming. 1 in 16 Somali 4 year olds has reportedly been diagnosed with autism. Are they just letting anything happen and they're not doing any policing whatsoever? Ryan?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, it's very clear with these government programs that there weren't many checks and balances that were built into the system and that this was done by design. I mean, this was done purposefully to help facilitate money going out the door, ostensibly to people in need. And what's interesting about the autism fraud case, the first indictment that's come down, the U.S. attorney's office indicates that more indictments will be coming, is that it is very clear the extent to which this fraud scheme penetrated the wider small community. So this wasn't just a bad apple. The woman accused in this case would approach members of the Somali community in Minnesota who had children. She would sign them up for autism services. If the child wasn't autistic, she would get them a fraudulent diagnosis, and then kickbacks would be paid to Somali parents in the state who had signed up their children for fraudulent autism services. And the U.S. attorney's office noted that if the kickbacks were too low, the parents would threaten to pull their child from one provider and take them over to a different fraudulent provider in order to get more money that was being stolen from taxpayers through the scheme.

[Andrew Colvett]

So that's, that's. The autism was an example. Can you also describe this, this, this homelessness one, the Medicaid Housing Stabilization Service. Can you explain how that fraud worked as well and any others that come to mind?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Yeah, the Housing Stabilization Services program was quite interesting because if you were to design a government program specifically to facilitate fraud, fraudulent claims, it would probably look a lot like this program was designed. There were almost no checks and balances baked into this system. It was launched in 2020 with, I would say, a fairly noble goal. It was seeking to get people who are struggling with drug and alcohol addiction, mental illness, people with disabilities, to help them find and secure housing. The U.S. attorney's office claims that, you know, fraudulent companies were set up. They were operating out of, you know, dilapidated storefronts. They would target people that were exiting drug and drug rehabs, they would sign them up for Medicaid services that, you know, they had no intention of providing and then they would simply pocket the money. And, and yet again, we've seen the claims under this program absolutely skyrocket. When it was launched in 2020, government officials estimated would cost about $2.6 million a year. By 2024, it cost 104 million. And in the first six months of this year alone, claims were $61 million. At that point, the state stepped in and shuttered the program because they realized that, you know, they had a significant problem on their hands in regards to fraud. And the U.S. attorney's office has indicated in a press conference that, that he, the U.S. attorney at the time, he believed there were more, there was more fraudulent activity in this program than there were legitimate claims. There have been eight indictments to date for HSS fraud. Six of the eight men who have been accused were of Somali heritage, two were Nigerian, of Nigerian heritage. And they're accused of defrauding millions of dollars from this government welfare program. And yet again, it's been indicated that more charges will be coming.

[Andrew Colvett]

Is it as simple as it looks? Where I guess the stereotype would be, it's Minnesota. You've got a lot of Swedes, Norwegians, sort of Nordic, high trust people, very used to doing pro social behaviors. And it's almost like they're like an animal on an island that has no predators. So the thought that someone would just fleece a program or just lie about it is so alien. Like they just have no defenses against this sort of, of behavior. Is it that simple? Is there any interest in fixing this other than arresting people occasionally?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, you know, I think that's a really good point. I think that does help explain some of what's going on. As I was reporting this piece out, the picture that was emerging was really of a perfect storm in Minnesota to facilitate fraud on a massive scale. You have a sizable small community that comes from a tribal clan based society and it has proven itself willing to cynically deploy accusations of racism as a shield in order to help cover up criminal behavior. You have a very generous, very progressive welfare state. And in many of these programs, checks and balances, they were specifically designed with very few in place. And then you have a progressive political establishment that is terrified of being seen as politically incorrect and also worried about alienating the Somali community, which is a sizable voting bloc in the state and has also established significant political connections. And so when those three things kind of collide, this is what you get.

[Blake Neff]

We'Re going to have more on this with Ryan Thorpe from City Journal Manhattan Institute. John, just a second. First, I want to tell you about the culture and Christianity, well, the Alan Jackson Podcast with our friends at Alan Jackson Ministries. What makes this podcast unique is Pastor Allen's biblical perspective. He takes the truth from the Bible and the scriptures and applies them to issues we're facing today. Gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge Trump in the White House, issues in the church. Nothing is off limits. They go straight at it. And they don't just discuss the problem in every single episode. They give you practical things that you can do to make a difference and put your faith to work. They also have a guest with phenomenal expertise that brings their perspective as well. And they want you to know how you can use your life to impact the world today. Culture and Christianity podcast, the Alan Jackson Podcast. You can also find out more about Alan Jackson Ministries at alanjackson.com forward/charlie. We'll be right back. The next great awakening is here. Welcome back to THE Charlie Kirk show. All right, welcome back to THE Charlie Kirk show. Want to tell you what, guys really quickly about our friends over at why Refi. They help you refinance distressed or defaulted private student loans that others simply will not touch. Not only that, they're great patriots that have stood by this show in the wake of everything that we've been through. And they've stood by Turning Point usa. They are amazing, amazing patriots and they have an amazing, amazing company with a great product that's helping people that have trapped in these private student loans can't get out from under them, find themselves getting behind, behind, behind. You don't have to let that be your, your story. You can take control of your financial destiny. Y Refi is there to help. You can even skip payments when you work with y refi every six months up to 12 times without penalty. They're going to custom tailor a solution that matches your budget so you can actually afford it. And they're going to guarantee you an interest rate under 6%, ensuring affordability. Now, this might not be available in all 50 states. Just want to be honest about that. But if it is available in your state and you find yourself in a situation where you're, you know, behind on your private student loan payments, they are the solution for you. 888-yrefi34. Give them a call, 888-yrefi34 or log into yrefi.com we'll welcome back radio in a second. All right. Welcome back to our national RADIO AUDIENCE we're joined by R. Ryan Thorpe from the Manhattan Institute. He has a great new piece about Mogadishu, Minnesota. I want to get into this, Ryan, because how much of this is essentially western culture confronting, I mean, let's just be honest, a very backwards, tribalistic African culture that has been imported into our country and they're just colliding and they don't understand each other or Somalis seem to understand us. They're taking us, taking advantage of Minnesota. Nice. How much of it is a cultural breakdown though, where, where Americans in Minnesota, they simply cannot fathom the cynical nature of these, of these schemes and these cons?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, I, I would say that sources I've spoken to in Minnesota have indicated that as a significant contributing factor in regards to these large scale fraud rings that we're seeing, there is a cultural component here. You know, when you're talking about people of Somali heritage that have landed in Minnesota, these are people that come from a very tribal clan based society. They have likely spent time in a refugee camp prior to arriving in America, where I would imagine you have to be pretty resourceful in order to get by. They then come to a traditionally very high trust state with significant welfare programs, perhaps the most generous in the country. And quite clearly by the criminal indictments that have been coming down, many people in the Somali community have figured out how to fraudulently obtain significant amounts of money. We're talking about billions of taxpayer dollars here that have been stolen, fraud rings that run 2000s of millions of dollars alone. So I don't think you can discount that clash of cultures as a major factor in what we're seeing that's going on.

[Blake Neff]

Well, listen to this. This is a quote from your piece. What we are seeing. What we see are schemes stacked upon schemes draining resources meant for those in need. It feels never ending. I have spent my career, this guy named Thompson, as a fraud prosecutor and the depth of the fraud in Minnesota takes my breath away. What can be done? Like if you were going to, I mean, is there a significant move to actually denaturalize, to deport some of these people that are here on protected status or on a temporary status of some nature? Is there, is there a way that you would dismantle this, that would actually fix the problem or it feels like we're just going to be playing whack a mole for years here in Minnesota?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Well, the sources that I've spoken to, these are political people, law enforcement, counterterrorism folks. I put this question to them, you know what, what needs to happen here. You know, they don't discount the fact that there is a role for law enforcement to play. They have been cracking down on many of these major fraud rings. There's more work to be done, more indictments will be coming, but pretty much across the board. People that I spoke to said there really isn't a law enforcement solution to this problem. As you said, that's simply playing whack a mole. People pretty consistently told me that, you know, there needs to be a policy change here and there clearly needs to be more accountability from the state government in Minnesota, which under Tim Waltz has been overseeing fraud after fraud to the point where the fraud has taken over entire government programs. So there has to be a policy solution here. Simply hoping for law enforcement to clean the mess up is naive.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, it really is a striking case. The most extreme thing of when you bring in people from a different culture, you bring in a different culture and it really manifests the way that it's so large and so many people are involved. Like, we didn't even talk about the feeding our future scam, another scam they did during COVID where they were pretending to feed thousands and thousands of kids, got millions of dollars, and it was, I think, one white Lutheran woman at the top of it, and then 50 plus people from the Somali community doing the rest of it. That it really is just who you have any moral relationship to is people in your, you know, extended family, people in your clan, people in that community. And you have no moral relationship or otherwise with the government, with wider society. You've basically brought a people within a separate group of people who just don't feel any obligation to the rest of the citizenry and they think it's totally valid to just loot the that community for everything they have. And I think the only way, the only way you can deal with that is you basically need to impose far higher standards for any benefits are going to dole out. Or you also have to say, frankly, why are we doing this in the first place? Why have we imported an alien culture that thinks it's their duty to just loot us?

[Blake Neff]

Now isn't now with Trump's travel restrictions? Because we had this in Trump 1.0, now 2.0. What's the status of immigration from Somalia right now? Ryan, really quick 20 seconds.

[Ryan Thorpe]

To be honest, I haven't looked into that, so I would not be.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Somalia is on the track. So I don't know if we're, we're making this problem worse right now or if we sort of stop the bleeding or if there's, you know, backdoor ways for chain migration and family reunification before.

[Andrew Colvett]

We close it up, I want to throw up. Put up 298. It just, it's the social contract in Minnesota. You have only 30 years old and all of his money is going to Al Shabaab, defeating our future to cause more chaos in Somalia so that more migrants move in to Minnesota so that they can give more money to them. I wanted to share that one.

[Blake Neff]

Ray, great job. Really good reporting. Thank you so much. We'll have you on again soon. We'll be right back.

[Terrence Bates]

Welcome back to this Real America's Voice news break. I'm Terrence Bates. Now that President Trump has signed the bill forcing the Justice Department to release all of its files on Jeffrey Epstein, the DOJ has 30 days to comply. The trove of documents should include all files and communications related to the disgraced child predator, as well as any information about the investigation into his death. Some information about victims could be redacted for ongoing federal investigations, but investigators cannot withhold information due to, quote, embarrassment, reputational harm or political sensitivity. A federal judge who has reviewed the case says there are about 100,000 pages to release. Taking to Truth Social. After signing the bill, President Trump began naming names and pointing fingers at Democrats who were associates of Epstein. In this Truth Social post, he writes, quote, Democrat figures such as Bill Clinton, who was on the plane numerous times Larry Summers, who of course has been let go from various boards and including Harvard sleazebag political activist Reid Hoffman, Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who he says took money from Epstein, Democrat Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett, and many more. Perhaps the truth about these Democrats and their associations with Jeffrey Epstein will soon be revealed. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky meeting with a U.S. army delegation in Ukraine today. The meeting comes as the Trump administration is out with a 28 point peace plan aimed at ending the war between Russia and Ukraine. The agreement would reportedly see Ukraine give up some of its land and weapons, including cutting the size of Ukraine's military. President Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff, along with Vice President J.D. vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and the president's son in law, Jared Kushner are said to have been instrumental in drafting this proposal. Proposal the plan is just now being presented to Ukrainian officials and reportedly leaves room for negotiation. This latest attempt at bringing peace to the region comes after Russian missiles and drones just killed at least 25 people in the latest round of fighting. That's a Quick check of your headlines. As always, we appreciate having you along for the ride. Now back to the Charlie Kirk Show.

[Cremu]

Speaking the truth, no one else has.

[Blake Neff]

The guts to say the Charlie Kirk Show. All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvett, executive producer of the show. Blake Neff, another one of the producers here. Our not so secret weapon, as I like to call him. He always looks at me sideways when I say it, though. I want to tell you really quickly about our friends over at TikTok. Connection and open dialogue. These are the things that build communities. Charlie believe that. TikTok believes that. That's why TikTok has built a space where that kind of listening actually happens. People don't just post, they respond and they build upon each other's ideas. You'll see a teacher simplifying a tough lesson so it finally clicks for the student or a gardener sharing a trick that saved their crop. But what matters most isn't the video. It's what comes next. Someone asking a question, someone else else answering with a story of their own, building upon the original idea. And suddenly people who've never met become a community built on shared curiosity. When people listen and understand, a shift happens. Walls come down, ideas travel further, and connection, real connection, takes their place. That is what listening does. It reminds us that we're not as different as we thought we were. And that's what makes TikTok so powerful. It's a place where every post can turn into a conversation and every conversation can make a difference. Charlie had billions and billions of views on Tick Tock. So that is that. We now have our next guest, Cremu. He's the author of the Cremu substack and you can find him on X at Cremu.

[Andrew Colvett]

How do you pronounce that?

[Tyler Boyer]

Cremu.

[Blake Neff]

Cremu. Welcome to show me now.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yes, we do. We can hear you.

[Cremu]

Okay.

[Andrew Colvett]

You're a bit old. Okay. There you are. You were a bit off center there.

[Blake Neff]

We'll get it.

[Cremu]

We'll get it. Right?

[Andrew Colvett]

But we wanted to have you on because there's been. You're a big expert on healthcare. Healthcare has totally taken over a lot of the discussion in the US as one of the biggest sources of rising costs in America. You know, people are. Let's just play one of these clips. Actually, I think that'll set it up nicely.

[Blake Neff]

Primer.

[Andrew Colvett]

How about we do. Let's just do 263.

[Cremu]

Going to hear horrible stories.

[Terrence Bates]

People are not going to be able to afford their.

[Cremu]

Their insurance. I Don't think even with subsidies, they're going to be able to assure to afford the premiums that are hiking up 100, 200, 300%.

[Blake Neff]

Wasn't Obama supposed to fix that, people?

[Cremu]

No.

[Blake Neff]

Well, not without the universal. I mean, there's Affordable Care Act. Affordable was the first. And I want to. I want to throw up. This is the last primary here. Cray Mood 279. This is the average annual expenditures for health insurance per household consumer unit. And you can see that big jump there right when the Affordable Care act was implemented into law. So health care is far outpacing the trend that we saw before the ACA was passed. So we call it the Unaffordable Care act. And that really is the foundation for our discussion. So, cray moo, what is going wrong with American healthcare?

[Cremu]

So I would qualify that last bit a little bit. I would say healthcare spending isn't really growing way over what you would expect before the aca. We're looking at different metrics there, but if you use consistent ones, it looks pretty like fine. The bigger issue is that we have. It just shouldn't be growing this way in the first place. It is a completely broken system in the sense that we have created incentives to make it worse. So. Wow. Sorry. It's really disorienting looking at myself twice on the screen. Let me just get rid of myself.

[Blake Neff]

Myself.

[Cremu]

Sorry. I'm like. I'm looking at myself and seeing like this is. There we go.

[Andrew Colvett]

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Just. Just keep going. Just zoned out.

[Cremu]

Yeah. So we have a lot of things in healthcare, post ACA especially, that are terrible in the sense that, for example, take the medical loss ratio requirement. This is the requirement that health insurers have to spend 80 to 90% depending on the type of plan. So 85% are there. So so of their premiums each year. So if they charge their customers X amount, they have to spend 85% of X. And the fact that they have to spend that amount is effectively a profit gap. So they have to make profits in other ways. And to make those profits, they look into other things, like buying up the pharmacy benefit managers or buying up hospitals, or sneakily changing the prices or even overpaying for drugs in order to meet the threshold of things they have to pay for. So you end up with costs just kind of running everywhere. You end up with incentives for vertical integration, such that they're buying up everything else. And the number of competitors it comes into the market is very, very Small, because again, who's going to invest in a company, a new company that has to spend 85% of its revenues every year? That's not a very good investment assessment. There's a lot of other issues. The ACA also, for example, was had a lot of stuff that was informed by small, kind of crappy studies. So there was this idea that came about as an example of this where hospitals run by doctors would be lower performing. And the reality was they actually couldn't be higher performing. But the aca, when it was written, wasn't like, it wasn't based. The study was not based on good empirical evidence, it was based on bad evidence evidence. So they ended up banning doctors from establishing new, like physician run hospitals.

[Andrew Colvett]

Wow.

[Cremu]

They do. There's a lot of things in there.

[Blake Neff]

That are just kind of cremer that seems like it should be illegal. How could you ban somebody from starting a business? I don't understand is. It's just, is this like a real ban or you just can't get access to insurance funds or something?

[Cremu]

No, it's a real ban. Unfortunately, you cannot start new one. There are some existing physician run hospitals that predate the ACA's ban going into effect, but you can't start new physician run hospitals.

[Blake Neff]

Hospitals.

[Cremu]

And that's a specific thing. So if you want to give up being a practicing physician, you can still start a hospital, but you can't both be a practicing physician and run the hospital.

[Andrew Colvett]

That's so interesting. So I guess just big picture, there's a lot of debate, you know, the GOP in Trump's first term tried to repeal and replace Obamacare. They failed thanks to our late senator here. But I guess people talk a lot about rising costs, but if there were targeted reforms that the Republican Party could start advocating, what do you think some of the best ones would be?

[Cremu]

Tons. So a lot of the problem is that we have good ideas that have been actually supposed to be put into effect. For example, price transparency is the law of the land right now. If you go to a hospital, they are required to provide you with a credible list of all the prices. Before any operation is done on you, you are supposed to be given an A price that is reasonable and that you will end up paying because once they, you know, put the number out there, they have to charge that for you unless some reasonable complication comes up. But the law is not enforced. The regulation for price transparency was supposed to go into effect on October 1st. And I looked around at a sample of local hospitals and I found, hey, you Guys still aren't transparent about your prices. It's a lot of the issue with this stuff is that we don't actually enforce the rules, which is bizarre. I don't know, like, what do you say about that? At the end of the day, that.

[Andrew Colvett]

Sounds like a good chance to do populism. You know, have the Trump admin just sue a big hospital or like perpl walk some random like official at like a really big hospital.

[Blake Neff]

When was that law. When was that law passed into law? That. That was supposed to go into effect on October 1st.

[Cremu]

So that was a regulation. The law that provided the regulation with power was. Is like very old. I think it's like decade old.

[Blake Neff]

Did that get caught up in like the government shutdown or something? I mean, or we're just.

[Cremu]

No, it predated it.

[Blake Neff]

There's not a mechanism to enforce it. Yeah, the President Trump. The Trump administration should absolutely start. Start insuring this.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well, what else? Yeah, what else though? Yeah, we cut you off there a bit.

[Cremu]

There are tons of things. So for example, patients are actually entitled to all of your data. If a doctor generates some data and goes in your ehr, you are supposed to be able to get access to that. You should be able to ask your physician and have your physician give that to you in some format that can be used by you, the patient. The same thing applies to the CMS's CLIA certified lab. So like IVF clinics, if a parent has some sequencing done in like one of their embryos, they should be able to get that data, but they don't. In fact, the on, I think it was September 14th, if I'm recalling the date correctly. RFK put out a little video saying that patients are entitled to their data and at some date in the future there'd be a little, little, not a hotline, but like a little form online that you can go fill out to report when data is not provided to you when you ask for it. And they just don't. They don't do it. So it's like it's not even things that are high cost that are being enforced. It's also things that are just good, like I said from a patient rights perspective that just nobody follows the rules because there, there are enforcement mechanisms. To be clear, CMS can really start hitting hospitals very hard. They can hit providers in ways that make their pocketbooks scream, but they don't. And that is the big issue at the end of the day, is that they have enforcement mechanisms. They don't enforce them for all sorts of things. Another thing is, for example, site neutral payments. So if you are running a hospital chain and you buy up a clinic, you can charge hospital prices at that clinic location, even if they're totally separate. You just bought the location, you didn't change any way it's running, but that allows you to charge the hospital rights, associate with the chain. Like that sort of thing should be outlawed and it was supposed to be outlawed on October 1st, but guess what's still in effect, non neutral payments. It's, it's absurd.

[Blake Neff]

So, so Cremer, it feels like you're sort of painting a picture that the health industry is plagued by death of a thousand cuts. There's maybe isn't one silver bullet. But you know, we were talking of a thousand cuts.

[Andrew Colvett]

It's so big, it seems like they just feel that it's so big and so impenetrable, they can just ignore.

[Blake Neff]

They can just. But so we have to. We have to.

[Cremu]

That's right.

[Blake Neff]

There has to be an initiative though, from probably the highest levels of our government to start enforcing some of these regulatory changes that are supposed to benefit the patients. So here's, here's something we talked about in hour one, that a lot of the problems in the country you could sort of trace back to illegal migration, illegal immigrants. How much of the rise in health care prices could you, you trace back to illegal immigrants on, on the dole or within the system? Or is that not a driver in your opinion?

[Cremu]

Not a big driver. The most liberal estimate that I've seen that's Credible is about 0.9%. And that's quite, that's stretching it, honestly. I think it's not that much. The main cost drivers have to do with old people. Old people are the biggest parts here. And the fact that we have bad incentives for cost control and we don't allow certain types of cost control even be put into place place. So the AMA is really your bigger problem here. Most of your growth is provider side rents. And that means the payments that go to doctors that are way in excess of what the doctors like that the care they're providing is worth. That's most of your issue. And we could lower provider side rents by allowing more physicians, but we have placed an effective cap on the rate of growth, not on the actual number of slots slots, but on the rate of growth in Medicare funding for residency slots. So the number of doctors who can actually come in and compete with the doctors and lower the rents and make it so they, you know, they're paid less, but they provide more because they're going to be more of them is limited. It's been limited since 1994. And we just don't.

[Blake Neff]

What happened in 94? What happened in 94?

[Cremu]

Oh, this is amazing. So the AMA argued there was going to be a surplus of doctors, there were going to be too many doctors and that this would cause a big problem. And you have to think, how can there be a surplus of doctors? Don't we always need more doctors? The answer is yeah, of course. But they managed to somehow convince Congress this was an issue that would impact the quality of care when it makes no sense. And then they got these limits set in place and now they argue to get away from the fact that they did this. They argue, well, we don't limit the actual number of residency slots. But they ignore that. Yes, there's still limitations on the growth in the number of slots and the funding mechanisms available to create more slots outside of Medicare funding. So they created a broken system where we can't actually fix the issue with provider side rents, which is roughly a third of all of the spending problem.

[Andrew Colvett]

I think we should go through the break on this.

[Blake Neff]

No, we're going to go through the break really quick. Hang right there Cray Moo. I'm going to tell our audience about one of our partners and we'll, we'll get back to in just one second. When you're buried in credit card and loan debt, it's human nature to put it off, off and procrastinate. I've been there and say I'll do, I'll deal with it later if that's you. Here's a hidden fact the debt strategy experts at Done With Debt shared with me. They discovered a little known strategy that works in your favor. Dramatically reducing or even erasing your debt altogether. They aggressively engage everyone you owe money to and they do it right now, right in the fall because they know which lenders and credit card companies are doing year end accounting and need to cut deals. They even know which ones have year end options, audits and need to get your debt completely off their books. That means you need to get started with Done With Debt now, right now, this fall. Done With Debt accomplishes this without bankruptcy or new loans. In fact, most clients end up with more money in their pocket the first month. Get started now while you still have time. Go to done with debt.com and talk with one of their specialists for free. Visit done with debt.com donewiththat.com More with cray Moo the statistician, the contrarian, the Guy who sees connections, others don't. We're going to keep going through the breaks.

[Cremu]

Blotted in to the prior auth departments where insurers do the rejections or they accept a medical, you know, call by a doctor. But we don't allow this. We have effectively banned it. We've made. There's no incentives to do it.

[Blake Neff]

So just so I'm understanding, because I, because I want to make sure I'm understanding exactly what you're saying. If we send a dollar, if we spend $1 on health care, 85% of that has to go to the actual treatments, meaning that the providers are only allowed to take 15% of. Okay, okay. Yeah.

[Cremu]

No, anything.

[Blake Neff]

30 seconds then we're going to welcome Back Radio for our last segment. So 30 seconds here.

[Cremu]

Sounds good.

[Blake Neff]

No, yeah, go for it.

[Cremu]

Anyway, anything not administrative. So that 15 is whatever's left over. And what that means is that in order to meet that level, like at the end of a billing cycle, what they'll do is they'll just pay more for stuff. So if a doc, if a doctor says like I want to build blah, blah, blah, they'll give a blah, blah, blah, they'll pay more for medication, they'll overpay for all sorts of things. They'll get wrong claims and just pay them because they want to meet, they have to meet this legal requirement. And in order to manage like the, this fact, they transfer large portions of their medical claim revenue to their PBMs, their subsidiaries that aren't regulated directly by this regulation.

[Blake Neff]

All right, we're going to welcome Back Radio to continue with Cray Moo. Fascinating conversation. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back. So Cray Moo, it sounds like there, there's, you said that these two buckets, they essentially lead to 90% of the problems with the ACA. If you so if you were consulting President Trump, J.D. vance, would you just say deal with this 85% ratio issue? And it sounds like one of, I forget what the other one. No, no. Okay.

[Cremu]

So the, these issues are unfortunately statutory. There are so statutory means that Congress is the reason for the issue. You Congress has in the case of the mlr, the medical loss ratio requirement that drives so much of the spending issues and so much of the lack of AI related innovation in healthcare. The issue was given. Congress gave the HHS the opportunity to write of the rules and they gave them some limits and said you have to write the rules a certain way. And these rules are terrible. But in order to reform it, you can't just have the HHS rewrite the rules because of those limits put in place by Congress. Congress, if you actually wanted to fix this issue, you would have to very likely, unless you can get some Democrats to agree, and I really doubt you could, you would very likely have to suspend the filibuster, which is what something the Republicans should be doing right now, and then go and get Congress to change it. So were I to offer this advice to Trump, I would say push on the filibuster, keep pushing, pushing, pushing. You have to get them to change the thing because you can't do it directly. But as president you will be blamed for any sort of health care mishaps or just continuations of bad trends that we've had going on.

[Andrew Colvett]

That is the big tough question. We've talked about the filibuster a lot on this show and because Trump wanted to get rid of it to end the shutdown. And we've generally said end the shutdown but only or end the filibuster but only if you have a home run slate of legislation to pass. Otherwise you're just going to do some, some lame thing and then fart around and then Democrats will have no filibuster to do. Their agenda, which is a lot more.

[Blake Neff]

Clear cut on what they want to, by the way. And so there are too like, there's popular aspects of aca, right? Is the, the uninsured, uninsurable people, right. That you, you, you couldn't have some very expensive treatment that you need for the rest of your life.

[Andrew Colvett]

The pre existing conditions, people like being.

[Blake Neff]

On their parents insurance and then being on your parents. Would, would your recommendation, just from a political standpoint, put your political hat on. Would you say let's keep those things in place and fix these underlying, I guess, statutory issues? I mean you could, you could instead of replacing Obamacare, you pitch it as like, hey, these reforms would make it better. Better.

[Cremu]

Yes, I absolutely would. So the big thing is with respect to the preexisting condition requirement, it does add a lot of costs. I mean it obviously does because you have suddenly people who are high cost being covered and you're in the same pool as them and you got to cover them. So that's a big issue. But if you fix the medical loss ratio requirement and you allow health care providers or sorry, if you allow health insurers to make better use of their prior authorization departments, you can minimize the downside of those people because you can offer them more tailored care. You can offer them, you can say, hey, your doctor called for this, but we actually think there's a better option here. You can figure out what is more optimal to give them in terms of care and save a lot of that money that you would have wasted anyway. But you're forced to spend it, so it doesn't matter at the moment. It becomes a bad thing in large part because there are no incentives to fix the issue from a technological perspective.

[Blake Neff]

Like you can.

[Cremu]

You can't go the technological route and minimize the issue the other way, which we totally could do if we fix this other issue. So I think keep that in place. It's fine because it's so popular, no one wants to touch it. And it, like you really do still want these people to be covered somehow. Like it's a. It's a humane issue. At the end of the day, you want them to be covered in some way that isn't just like.

[Andrew Colvett]

So one, one last question. I'm thinking. So you've mentioned it's statutory issues on the biggest things, but what is the best thing you think the Trump administration could do right now, just with its regulatory executive branch authority, doesn't need Congress, which is its own big problem. What could they do tomorrow if they wanted?

[Cremu]

Yeah, they could fix tons of the issues with cms. So, like that site neutrality thing I mentioned before is totally able to be fixed. The issue is the enforcement there. They have that power to fix that issue and enforce it. And they've written up those rules and they have changed those rules rules and they have not enforced it. That is the big issue is enforcement. And there are tons of things like this. So they could get away with fixing a lot by just enforcing the rules and change. There are some things they could change too. So they could be adventurous. There are some untested legal theories here. Like section 804 is the thing that allows you states to sign up to start importing drugs for their Medicare Medicaid programs from Canada, Canada at Canadian prices. If they were to be a little adventurous with this, they could expand that by changing two parts of the regulation so that states could import Canadian generics that don't yet have a generic equivalent in the US Thus lowering prescription drug prices a lot. It's totally on the table to do a lot of little fixes that are in untested legal territory if they want to try that. And they could meaningfully lower the cost of health care considerably beyond what they've done so far with the negotiations. Because the negotiations, they've actually been getting kind of duped on, like a lot of the Trump RX stuff that they've done where they've tried to get, like, directly go to Pfizer and tell them give us most favored nation rates. That stuff doesn't really work to cut prices very much, unfortunately, like you would. You think there's a lot of room there, but the issue is.

[Andrew Colvett]

Sorry, sorry. We're running out of time.

[Cremu]

Should we go?

[Andrew Colvett]

Can we go over?

[Blake Neff]

Sure, we'll go a few minutes.

[Andrew Colvett]

Let's go a few minutes over. I just love having this guy on.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. All right. We'll be right back for Stream Radio. We got to say goodbye. Real America's voice. We'll see you tomorrow. This is an iHeart podcast.