THE ROAD FORWARD - DECEMBER 7th, 2025

Summary

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Real America’s Voice – "Sunday: The Road Forward"

Episode Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Ryan Helenbein (filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton)
Key Guests: Rod Martin, Virgil Walker, Lindsay Graham, Amy Robbins

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Episode Overview

This Advent episode of "The Road Forward" on Real America’s Voice focuses on the intersection of American values, faith, economic policy, and current cultural moments. Through discussions with business leaders, pastors, authors, and cultural commentators, the episode delves into economic challenges, the rise of socialism among younger Americans, controversies regarding immigration, transformations in faith culture, and the delicate balance between questioning narratives versus responsible public discourse. The tone is optimistic, at times urgent, and committed to exploring how faith and traditional values can provide a path forward during turbulent times.

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Opening Reflection (03:02 – 04:17)

Main Theme:
Advent as a season of hope and preparation, with an emphasis on the enduring relevance of faith.

Key Scripture Read:
Isaiah 9:6 – “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

Host’s Message:
Ryan Helenbein encourages listeners to “hold fast to the Gospel and the unchanging Word of God” amid current challenges.

“In a moment of darkness, God sent his son to be the light of the world. In a time of despair, he sent the Prince of Peace.” (Ryan Helenbein, 03:02)

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Segment 1: Economics, Socialism, & Capitalism with Rod Martin

[05:15 – 15:32]

Context

Rod Martin (CEO, investor, and tech entrepreneur) discusses the perceived crisis of affordability, the appeal of socialism among Gen Z, historic economic cycles, and the potential for renewed American economic growth.

Key Points & Insights

• Rise of Socialism Among Gen Z

  • “62% of Americans under the age of 30 have a favorable view of socialism or socialistic policies… about 32 million young people.” (Ryan Helenbein, 05:16)
  • Zoram Mamdani’s election as NYC mayor is seen as emblematic of this trend.

• Affordability Crisis & Economic Policy

  • Martin traces affordability woes to “four years of horrendous fiscal and monetary policy,” comparing the situation to the early 1980s.
  • Draws parallels to Reagan-era recovery: “At one point we actually hit 7.1% GDP growth in the Reagan years. That’s about to happen here.” (Rod Martin, 06:17)
  • Advocates for investment-driven job growth, secure borders, and critiques “50 year mortgage” ideas while acknowledging their necessity for some.

• Socialism vs. Capitalism

  • “Socialism is a lie… Capitalism is actually a solutions-based model that works.” (Ryan Helenbein, 09:32)
  • Martin points to Europe as a case study in the cost of top-down socialism: “Every country in Europe is now poorer than Mississippi.” (Rod Martin, 09:37)
  • Mobility and “voting with your feet” are framed as unique American advantages.

• Red States vs. Blue States

  • “The red states will get richer, the blue states will get poorer, just as they already are in population.” (Rod Martin, 11:47)

• Prescriptive Solutions

  • Martin argues that continued investment, deporting illegal immigrants, and tax cuts will deliver an economic boom similar to the 1980s.
  • “We will see an economic boom June, July of next year that just continues out to the horizon as it did in the 80s.” (Rod Martin, 14:32)

Notable Quotes

• “You don’t have to keep people in a place that is doing well… California and New York and Illinois are losing population like crazy to states like Texas and Tennessee and Florida.” (Rod Martin, 13:01)

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Segment 2: Immigration, Cultural Change, & the Church with Virgil Walker

[20:27 – 30:54]

Context

Virgil Walker (pastor, podcaster, cultural commentator) analyzes changing immigration patterns, Islamic enclaves in American cities, and the Christian response to migration and assimilation.

Key Points & Insights

• Rise of Non-Assimilating Enclaves

  • Discussion of Islamic communities in Dearborn (MI), Minneapolis, NYC, with “sharia councils” and Muslim calls to prayer at civic meetings.
  • Allegations of “massive fraud” in Somali family reunification visas: “They’ve done DNA testing and recognizing these folks are not family at all.” (Virgil Walker, 22:38)

• Changing Immigration Policy

  • Walker and Helenbein critique post-1960s policies: from merit-based and culturally cohesive immigration, to “chain migration” prioritized by family ties.
  • “We’re importing people that have all kinds of ideologies that are not compatible with the American system… They don’t have to be Christian, but they certainly do need to adhere to the values, the morals… our system and framing of government.” (Ryan Helenbein, 24:32)

• Expectations & Assimilation

  • “When you’re coming to our country, if you defraud our system, you lose any opportunity to be a part of our country.” (Virgil Walker, 26:59)
  • Emphasis on the need for incoming immigrants to “learn the language, honor its laws.”

• Christian Worldview on Nations

  • Navigating the balance between the Great Commission and respect for national boundaries (see Acts 17).
  • Rejects accusation of xenophobia; critiques the progressive “cudgel” of labeling immigration criticism as racist.

• Church’s Complicity and Challenge

  • “The church has been complicit in either silence, acquiescence, or the promotion of these leftist ideas that everyone deserves and has a right to come to the United States.” (Virgil Walker, 29:51)
  • Advocates for legal immigration and preserving American (specifically Christian) civic culture.

Notable Quotes

• “There’s an important aspect of a clear national expectation that we as Americans must kind of lay out… if you’re here in America, you become a part of our American family.” (Virgil Walker, 26:59)

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Segment 3: The Revival of Christian Faith among Gen Z with Lindsay Graham

[36:55 – 45:33]

Context

Lindsay Graham (“Patriot Barbie”), author and entrepreneur, discusses the reaction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk, social media’s role in faith revival, and why Gen Z is re-engaging with Christianity.

Key Points & Insights

• Faith Revival Sparked by Charlie Kirk’s Death

  • A “turning point trigger” leading many to re-examine who Kirk was: “They went and researched who he was and realized it wasn’t really necessarily always politics with him, it was Jesus Christ.” (Lindsay Graham, 38:26)

• Role of Social Media in Ministry

  • Social media influencers introduce people to faith in new, “raw and authentic” ways.
  • “They’re not preaching, they’re not pastors, they’re not coming from a context of a Bible and the law… they’re saying, ‘I’m looking at a relationship with Jesus.’” (Lindsay Graham, 39:23)
  • Seeds of faith are planted via influencers, often leading people to church for the first time.

• Christian Influencers & Apologetics

  • Rise of social media evangelists and apologists like Dr. Frank Turek, Cliff Knechtle, Wesley Huff, etc.
  • Even Joe Rogan is referenced as a “seeker” whose spiritual openness influences millions.

• Barrier-Free Exploration of Faith

  • Vulnerability of first-time churchgoers is lessened by following influencers “on their journey,” making spiritual exploration “safe to do.”
  • “They are on that journey with Joe Rogan. They’re, like, living it with him every day. There’s no vulnerability in that… That’s a very… innocent and childlike exploration.” (Lindsay Graham, 42:57)

Notable Quotes

• “This is not a dead religion… This is a living faith, a real personal faith with a living savior, and his name is Jesus Christ.” (Ryan Helenbein, 41:31)

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Segment 4: Media, Misinformation, and the Charlie Kirk Case with Amy Robbins

[51:07 – 59:50]

Context

Amy Robbins, entrepreneur and podcaster, addresses the controversy over conspiracy narratives surrounding Charlie Kirk’s assassination—specifically, Candace Owens’ ongoing accusations—and discusses responsible discourse vs. harmful speculation.

Key Points & Insights

• Candace Owens’ Accusations and Conspiracy Theories

  • Owens is accused of repeatedly suggesting Turning Point insiders and even Kirk’s widow might be complicit—without evidence.
  • “She’s making millions of dollars off of dragging people along, but she’s dragging people’s names through the mud… without actually presenting evidence.” (Amy Robbins, 53:25)

• The Danger of Public Accusations

  • Distinguishes healthy skepticism from reckless allegations: “It’s good that she’s asking questions. The way she asks questions implements people in such a way that people start to believe without evidence that certain people are involved.” (Amy Robbins, 53:25)

• Impact on Justice and on Families

  • Host warns that excessive public interference could create grounds for mistrials.
  • “Rather than putting the focus and the attention where it should be, you know… there needs to be a trial. What there needs not to be is a mistrial, a miscarriage of justice.” (Ryan Helenbein, 56:13)
  • Emphasizes respect for due process; cautions against sensationalized speculation.

• Empathy for the Family

  • “We still have a widow and a family who is still grieving over the loss of her husband, over the father. And to be drugged through this, I think it’s just really unimaginable.” (Amy Robbins, 58:15)

Notable Quotes

• “People have to remember that Candace is not the judicial system… This is still an ongoing investigation.” (Amy Robbins, 53:25)

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Closing Thoughts & Call to Action

[61:49 – 62:45]

Host’s Reflection:
Helenbein closes with a quote from Charles Spurgeon about the church’s responsibility in times of crisis, encouraging renewed spiritual vigilance:

“The fight is here. The church must be awake. Let’s pray that God would stir our hearts, revive his people, and that we would be found Faithful watchmen in this hour.” (Ryan Helenbein, 61:49)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Opening Scripture and Introduction: 03:02 – 04:17
• Rod Martin on Economics and Socialism: 05:15 – 15:32
• Virgil Walker on Immigration & Assimilation: 20:27 – 30:54
• Lindsay Graham on Faith Revival and Social Media: 36:55 – 45:33
• Amy Robbins on Media, Conspiracy, and Justice: 51:07 – 59:50
• Host’s Closing Reflection: 61:49 – 62:45

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Memorable Quotes

• “Socialism is a lie… Capitalism is actually a solutions-based model that works.”
  — Ryan Helenbein, 09:32

• “Mobility is the problem socialists can never overcome… You don’t have to keep people in a place that is doing well.”
  — Rod Martin, 13:01

• “When you’re coming to our country, if you defraud our system, you lose any opportunity to be a part of our country.”
  — Virgil Walker, 26:59

• “They’re saying, ‘I’m looking at a relationship with Jesus.’ And this is what I’ve been doing on my social media. This is what it looks like to have a relationship.”
  — Lindsay Graham, 39:23

• “Candace is not the judicial system… The way she asks questions implements people in such a way that people start to believe without evidence that certain people are involved.”
  — Amy Robbins, 53:25

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Summary

This episode of "The Road Forward" intertwines faith, economic optimism, cultural critique, and cautionary perspectives on media and justice. It champions hope and a solutions-oriented outlook in the face of societal and spiritual challenges. Listeners are urged to stand firm in faith, think critically, and foster unity rooted in truth and the American tradition.

Transcript

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[Ryan Helenbein]

It's Sunday, December 7, 2025. Welcome to Real America's Voice News. This is Sunday the Road Forward. We are in the Advent season, a time of anticipation and preparation as we remember the hope that came into the world through the birth of of Jesus Christ. In a moment of darkness, God sent his son to be the light of the world. In a time of despair, he sent the Prince of Peace. This Christmas season, let's fix our eyes on the one who came to save us. Our scripture today comes from Isaiah 9:6 for to us a child is born, to us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder. And his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. As always, we want to be an encouragement to our viewers and listeners to hold fast to the Gospel and the unchanging Word of God. I am Ryan Helenbein. I'm filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton. I'll be your host today.

Doesn't stand a chance when I stand in your love. My fear doesn't stand a chance when.

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[Ryan Helenbein]

Joining me now is Rod Martin. Rod is the CEO and founder of Martin Capital. He's also an investor, futurist and tech entrepreneur, helping to launch a number of ventures including PayPal. Rod is also a regular commentator on politics and business. Rod, thank you for joining Sunday. The Road Forward is great to see you. As always, great to be here.

[Rod Martin]

Thank you.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Well, I, I know that you you have an eye on what's going on all around the nation and you write quite a bit at your sub stack. Very impressive the content that you're putting out there. You have a newsletter as well that goes out to tens of thousands. You've a hundred thousand hundreds of thousands of followers on social media. Many people are subscribing to what you're talking about, especially when it comes to economic policy. 62% of Americans under the age of 30 have a favorable view of socialism or socialistic policies. That that comes to about 32 million young people in the United States of America. Obviously, Zoram Mamdani won his race for mayor. He, he swears in on January 1. What do you make of all of this? Is this the, the end of civilization as we know it, or is there a way to fight back for free markets for capitalism and freedom?

[Rod Martin]

Well, I think the biggest single thing is that young people feel this affordability crisis, which is very real. It's also very, really the creation of four years of horrendous fiscal and monetary policy. So we're in the hangover from that, just like we were in the very beginning of the Reagan years. But within a couple years, Ronald Reagan was able to get the economy on such good track that we went from having a recession about every two and a half years from World War II until his presidency, to having a recession about once every 10 years since his presidency. That's actually quite an extraordinary difference. And at one point we actually hit 7.1% GDP growth in the Reagan years. That's about to happen here. You know, Trump's bringing $18 trillion in investment into the United States. That goes straight to manufacturing jobs, high tech jobs, all kinds of positive things. Deporting all of these illegal aliens, 10 million of whom flooded into the country in just the four year span of Joe Biden absolutely pushed housing prices through the roof. As you start to eliminate that, housing is going to regulate and it's gonna be more affordable. And while I'm not a huge fan of this 50 year mortgage idea, I get it. If you can buy a lower payment and then you're smart and you make double payments after a certain point when you're able to. That's actually a pretty good on ramp for some people. A better on ramp would be more economic growth. And that's exactly what all that new investment and the new tax cuts are going to produce. Just like clockwork. Just like they did in the early 80s.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Yeah, you know, I, I am, I'm very optimistic and hopeful that we can achieve some kind of growth. And I love what you say about the 1980s. That was certainly too true about Ronald Reagan. You look at the turbulence of the 1970s, there was an energy crisis, there was an inflation crisis. Jim. Jimmy Carter only exacerbated the problem and he was a terrible president. And, and Ronald Reagan had to inherit all of that. But then you saw the landslide victory in 1984. Americans were seeing that it works. And I think that is the biggest firewall against socialism. Socialism is a lie. That doesn't. But capitalism is Actually a solutions based model that works. So when people are seeing their standard of living go up, they're seeing incomes rise, they're seeing debts go down. I think credit card debt in the United States is a little over 1.5 trillion, something like that. And college debt is 1.8. But if, if, if young people see, hey, my basis at 21 was this. At 25, it's this. And at 30, man, my life is getting better. It's going the right direction.

I think that is the best proof that socialism doesn't work.

[Rod Martin]

Well, look, it doesn't work anywhere it's been tried. You know, you look at, you look at Great Britain right now and they're really struggling because they elected socialists. You look at, you look at all of Europe. Europe had a larger collective GDP than we did in very recent memory. Now they're at 2/3 of our GDP. What's the difference? Stifling socialist policy from the top down in Europe versus even in the Obama and Biden years, which are comparatively bad robust capitalism in the United States. Now you say, well, okay, but we're poor here. Well, okay, but every country in Europe is now poorer than Mississippi. So there's a distinct comparison to be made here. And if you really let her rip here, it really changes things. So for instance, if you have the growth rate that you had under Barack Obama, it takes more than half a century to double the economy, which means there's just no opportunity for young people. There's no opportunity really for anybody except the super rich. If you have just the GDP growth rate that you had from World War II until Obama, 3.4% a year, that doubles the economy every 26 years. It's just an extraordinary difference. It means things are booming. It means there are new jobs, there's opportunity for advancement, there's opportunity to buy homes. All these things come together. And we've done this before. We know how to do it. We're looking all over the world at socialists who are failing, willing to do it. And honestly, I'm not a bit worried about Zoran Mandani. He's about to give us an object lesson in everything I just said. And in the process, he's going to drive listings off the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ to the new Texas Stock Exchange in Dallas. And he's going to move hedge funds straight to Miami and Palm Beach. The red states will get richer, the blue states will get poorer, just as they already are in population.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Okay, and on that point, it is a very important point that you made Right there. And that is mobility. And for the longest time that has been true of the wealthy class in this country. The tax policies we know don't work because there's not enough money in the world that the rich have to pay for everything that the socialists want. But also in the United States of America, we have freedom of movement. And people can leave California, they can leave New York, they can go to Florida, they can go to Texas. You are in the sunny state of Florida. My native Texas is doing quite well. But the blue states are getting bluer. I mean, they are getting super, super blue. New York City has been blue for, for quite a while. You know, we had Mayor Bloomberg, who was the last so called Republican mayor. My favorite was Rudy Gi he cleaned up crime in New York City and they benefited quite well. In the 1990s, there were all kinds of reforms and changes in New York City. But to your point, these guys can go to any other state, they don't have to stay in New York City. And America still benefits from that movement.

[Rod Martin]

Well, mobility is the problem socialists can never overcome. You don't see migrant caravans going to Venezuela. You see them flooding out, out of Venezuela even at the cost of crossing the Darien Gap to walk all the way to Texas. There's a reason, and this is the difference. You've heard Democrats talk about Trump's wall as being like the Berlin Wall. He's a fascist, He's a communist. No, Excuse me. No. Trump's wall is intended to keep people who aren't supposed to be here out. The Berlin Wall was intended to keep people who were supposed to be there in. The Berlin Wall was a prison. This is a fence around your front yard. And the difference is stark. You don't have to keep people in a place that is doing well. And that's why California and New York and Illinois are losing population like crazy to states like Texas and Tennessee and Florida. And they're just going to see that increase like crazy over the next few years.

[Ryan Helenbein]

So.

[Rod Martin]

So, you know, people vote with their feet and that's exactly what we're seeing.

[Ryan Helenbein]

And just giving you a final word, what opportunities do Republicans and the Trump administrative Trump administration have in 2026 to solve the affordability crisis that Gen Z are experiencing right now?

[Rod Martin]

You know, it's mostly just a matter of continuing the policies that we have put in place. And by the way, just 10 months, Trump has only been back in the White House very briefly and already tremendous change and tremendous progress has been made. So again, get rid of more illegal aliens. You bring down the cost of housing, increase investment into the manufacturing and tech sectors, we will increase the number of jobs, we will increase the quality of those jobs, we will increase the salaries attached to those jobs and we will see an economic boom June, July of next year that just continues out to the horizon as it did in the 80s.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Well, I'm, I'm with you and I'm here for it. I hope to see it happen and I believe it will. Thank you so much. We'll leave it there. Rod Martin, thank you so much for joining Sunday the Road Forward.

[Rod Martin]

Thank you.

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[Ryan Helenbein]

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[Virgil Walker]

Always good to see you man. Honored to be with you. Thanks for the opportunity.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Well, I, I really appreciate Brother, the the writings that you're doing, your substack articles writing over at Standing for Freedom center as well, and oftentimes discussing more controversial topics I think than than maybe the evangelical world is comfortable with. But certainly it is it is all based on the truth and it is done in love. And you wrote an article just recently talking about some of the issues that we're having with immigration and the communities that have been created over, say, the past 10, 15, 20 years, Islamic communities. I'm thinking of places in Dearborn, Michigan, even New York City, even St. Paul, Minneapolis, the Twin Cities. There are places across the United States today where sharia councils are being set up, another way of saying sharia courts that people are invoking more and more the name of Allah. There are Muslim calls to prayer that can be heard at city council meetings. You're even hearing pro Hamas talking points given from very large democratic platforms. Something is happening in America, shifting around, and I think the more recent shooting in D.C. kind of called attention to this. You wrote about this recently regarding Elon Omar and the Somalian community. Tell us a little bit about this piece.

[Virgil Walker]

Yeah, it really kind of highlighted what has been an issue and a challenge for quite some time. Trump's presidency and his focus on immigration has definitely caused us to do what's right and just at the border. But what it's also done, Ryan, is it's exposed a lot of these enclaves, these communities within communities that don't at all reflect or represent American ideals, that have no real connection to America as a country as A nation, the things that we hold dear. This was brought up really most recently in Trump's conversation or really interview where the media had gotten a chance to ask him questions in the office with the cabinet. And he mentioned Ilhan Omar and her constant complaints. He mentioned the Somali community. And recently what was found out was that there's a massive fraud situation that's taking place there in Minnesota, Minneapolis in particular, where hundreds of thousands of Muslims, tens of thousands, close to 100,000 Muslims have been brought in, folks from Somali, under the guise of, you know, family reconnection, family reunification. And what they're finding is up to 80% of those are not DNA or not family. They've done DNA testing and recognizing these folks are not family at all. The larger issue really is the fact that our country is not only been invaded at the border, but that even those who've been let in under what we thought were wise pretenses are not American. They're not, they've adopted American culture. And we've got to, we've got to recognize that, come to terms with that and deal with it.

[Ryan Helenbein]

You know, it is fascinating to me, you and I co authored something over at the Freedom center regarding the crisis right now in immigration. And for the longest time in American history, you know, all the way up really until the 1960s, you know, immigration was merit based, largely sensible, reasonable. We were immigrating from like nations that had a cultural cohesion with the west. And many of them were oriented either towards Protestantism or Catholic. But when they were coming over, we didn't have this chain migration, you know, based on family ties. It had to do with merit. It had to do with whether this person was bringing something to the United States. It would be a net positive. This, you know, this individual, if they were going to, to be a medical professional, you know, and come up with some life saving patent, or whether this person was going to go work as an engineer in Silicon Valley or, or NASA. And it's kind of interesting, even with the H1B controversies that we're seeing, even right now, the number of college graduates from universities in the interior of India, let's say, and these don't present a threat in terms of national security. These are not Islamic ideologists that are trying to foam in hatred or division. But These are just H1B lottery recipients who are coming to the United States. And we're told that the whole purpose of H1B is that these are highly skilled, unique, almost PhD level brain power. But the, but the truth and the reality is Far different than that. We're importing people that could scarcely perform high functioning jobs. We're importing people that have all kinds of ideologies that are not compatible with the American system, the American form of governments. They don't have to be Christian, but they certainly do need to adhere to the values, the morals in, and our system and framing of government. And it seems like that has all been thrown out. What are your thoughts?

[Virgil Walker]

Yeah, absolutely. It's really transpired over the course of the last 30, 30 years or so, this idea that regardless of your, your condition, regardless of the environment from which you came, regardless of whether or not you have anything to offer the United States, you have a, you have a freedom. And Americans have an obligation to embrace you, to embrace your culture, to keep that culture similar. Rather than blending into the family that we have, the civic family that we have known as America. I think there's a reckoning that's taken place, Ryan. And that reckoning is that there's an important aspect of a clear national expectation that we as Americans must kind of lay out. And that begins with the fact that if you're here in America, you become a part of our American family. You learn the language, you honor its laws. We're a nation that respects others. But it's the respect that you give us that's important. When you're coming to our country, if you defraud our system, you lose any opportunity to be a part of our country. And as a part, as the fact that you left a country in order to come to ours is indicative of the fact that you left something that needs to be left behind. There were corrupt governments, corrupt systems. And for you to come transplant here and then abhor everything about America says to me, and that's kind of what I laid out in the piece says to me that you don't belong here and that you actually need to be sent back home.

[Ryan Helenbein]

That's right. And I want to be very, very clear. You're a pastor. We understand the purpose of the Great Commission is to go into all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that Christ commands. We are to, to be sent out into the nations. We are for the nations. And yet as a pastor, we have to recognize that in Acts chapter 17, it's very clearly laid out that, that God has appointed a time for nations. He's even appointed their borders and boundaries, that God is sovereign over the, over the rise and fall of various nations, whether it be the Roman Empire, the Attila the Hun, you know, the Japanese Empire or even the United States of America. And every nation matters to God in the ultimate sense. What you're suggesting is very common sense. It's very sensible. This is not xenophobic. And I think oftentimes the left.

Wants to cudgel people into silence by suggesting that any kind of criticism towards these open border policies is racist.

[Virgil Walker]

That's a, that's a big part of the problem. And, and I address it in the piece, the church has been complicit in either silence acquiescence or the promotion of these leftist ideas that everyone deserves and has a right to come to the United States. And so as a result, there's a whole generation of young people. Now Ryan, you and I are very aware of this. These folks who not only are rejecting that idea, but are promoting hatred, right.

And ideas that are really anti immigrant. And that's not where we are. We have no problem with legal immigration. But there needs to be a standard, there needs to be a way in which we do that. A way that honors the traditions, the Christian traditions of our country and really looks to preserve that culture as it allows others to come and participate in the benefits thereof.

[Ryan Helenbein]

I think you're absolutely right. We'll leave it there. Virgil Walker, no one could say it better this morning. Thank you so much for joining Sunday the Road Forward.

[Amy Robbins]

Thanks for having me.

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[Lindsay Graham]

Nice to see you too Ryan. Thanks for having me.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Well, I'm honored. I appreciate the work you're doing. You were in the Lone Star State, my home state. We are seeing some pretty hopeful signs in America. Christianity is making a comeback. We are seeing growth in the download of Bible apps, the cell, the selling actually of Bibles has gone up. Church attendance has gone up. Baptisms have gone up. Faith is making a comeback. Not everywhere in America, but certainly in large pockets in America. Faith is going mainstream. I welcome this. I I was obviously just like you were and everyone.

Shocked saddened by the sudden tragic loss of Charlie Kirk, assassinated by a transgender activist on September 10th. And we saw real revival in the wake of that event. Many, many people across the country went back to church for the first time in a long time Others entered church for the first time, like ever. I think Gen Z 34 of Gen Z had never been to a church service anywhere in the United States. Hard to imagine, but it looks like faith is slowly making a comeback. I wanted to see what your thoughts were, what you were seeing in all of this.

[Lindsay Graham]

Well, I think that the assassination was a very big, you know, turning point trigger for a lot of people. They, they had to stop and look at who Charlie was. And short of taking out his little sound bites out of context, what did he actually preach? You know, he was this face of turning point. But what did he really say? What he said was the ministry, the gospel. And a lot of people stopped. I mean, we saw his following go from, what was it, 2 million to like 20 million. It's crazy. They went, Some people said, I didn't even know who Charlie Kirk was. And I'm like, how did you not know who Charlie Kirk was? He was, he was like paving the way. Well then they all went and researched who he was and realized it wasn't really necessarily always politics with him, it was Jesus Christ. That's where his morality came from. That's what he talked about. But I think there is also a huge credit to be given, God forbid, to social media because, listen, where did we used to get the gospel? From your pastor in the church pew on Sunday and. Or on Wednesday. And if you had Christian friends, that was it, right? That was the gospel. Now you have Christian influencers, a lot of them, and not even necessarily Christian influencers, but influencers in general that are starting to hear the gospel themselves and starting to seek it out. And then they go share that with their audience. And that is the most authentic ministry that you can have. Because they're not preaching, they're not pastors, they're not coming from a context of a Bible and the law. They're saying, I'm looking at a relationship with Jesus. And this is what I've been doing on my social media. This is what it looks like to have a relationship. And it's so raw and it's so authentic and it's so uncondemning that people who normally wouldn't want to go to church or would feel condemned or judged in church are saying, well, I can get the gospel if I follow this person. And then that, that's that little seed that God tells us to plant. We're not the one that, that maybe will bring them to the Lord and call them and pray with them and lead them to Jesus, but we plant that seed and Then once that seed is planted, they say, you know what? I think I will. Maybe I'll try to go to church. Maybe I'll try to hear more about this. And so as much as we kind of don't like social media, for some reasons, I feel like it's playing a really big role in leading people into an authentic relationship with Jesus.

[Ryan Helenbein]

I wholeheartedly agree. I think just like when the Internet, you know, came about in the 1990s, you know, obviously pornography immediately was trafficking and Internet, but also like, you know, there were tons of apologetic resources that were made available that people were getting libraries of information that they were not exposed to ever. Social media can kind of do the same thing. Some of the greatest Christian apologists of our lifetime are all on social media and they have millions of followers. You know, I think of people like Dr. Frank Turek, I think about Cliff Kle, Wesley Huff.

Gosh, Bryce, Bryce Crawford, there are many others, and they're using their platform to get the gospel out there. Joe Rogan, more recently, we were having a conversation about this, but like, you know, he has over 20 million subscribers, I think on Spotify. And even he, I mean, I'm not saying Joe Rogan is a Christian apologist. I know he's a seeker. He at the very least has expressed that he really takes Christianity seriously. Like he's reading the Bible, he's attending church services somewhere, but he's relaying to his audience that he doesn't think this is a myth at all. There's real power in Jesus name. There's real power to the Christian faith that it can actually transform and change people's lives for the better. And to your point also, this is not a dead religion. This is not a religion of dry bones. This is. This is not a religion of relics and a bunch of old people wearing robes and carrying around parchments. This is a living faith, a real personal faith with a living savior, and his name is Jesus Christ. And you can have relationship when you have forgiveness, you can have peace, you can have restoration, you can have rescue from those things that keep people in bondage. It's real.

[Lindsay Graham]

And think about what it looks like, okay? It's hard to imagine us being non believers and, and what our lives look like if we had never been believers. So I was raised in the church. I'm sure you were too. There's never been a point in my life where I, I didn't believe that God was real. Maybe I wasn't walking closely with him, but I always knew he existed. I don't know what it looks like for someone to. To have never been introduced or to never even explore it. But the vulnerable, the vulnerability that it takes when you take that first step and you say, you go to church and you want to learn, and now you're on that journey with Jesus, and that journey does not happen overnight. You don't give your life to the Lord, and then you quit drinking and you quit cussing and you start following all the rules, you know, and the law that some people think Christianity is. It's not like that. I've actually had people tell me while I'm ministering to them, but I don't want to give up my sin. They like, they know it's a sin, and they're like, I know that as soon as I follow Jesus, he's going to ask me. And my response is not necessary to that. But what does it look like if you don't know that God is real and you don't necessarily believe that God is real and you've never really even thought to look at it. But here you are watching Joe Rogan and he's on that journey, and you are not hearing someone say to you, God is real, and here is my testimony, and here's what God did for me. And they're like, cool, now. Now I'll start my journey. They are on that journey with Joe Rogan. They're, like, living it with him every day. There's no vulnerability in that. They just get to kind of stay in their home, in their safe place. Listen to Joe say, well, I kind of looked at this first, and this is what I think about it. And maybe this is real. And they're like, well, maybe it is. And they get to live out that journey with. With someone along the way. That's a very. Think about how rare that might be that you would approach a friend and go, hey, I'm thinking about looking at this Jesus thing. And they're like, you know what? I've been thinking about it too. Let's look at it together. Let's. Let's toss our sin aside together. Let's start a study together. Let's give our hearts to Jesus together. I can't imagine how that would come about because it would be such a rare occasion. But they. People that sit back and watch YouTube videos and podcasts, they consider that person kind of their friend, right? So they're looking at like, my friend Joe Rogan is on a journey with Jesus. And I'm just going to sit back and I'm going to. I'm going to do it with him. And there's just like, there's so much innocent and childlike exploration there that it's safe to do.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on Sunday. The road forward. Really appreciate so much the work that you're doing.

[Lindsay Graham]

Thank you so much.

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[Ryan Helenbein]

Joining us now is Amy Robbins. She's a wife, mother and CEO and founder of Alexo Athletica, an athletic clothing brand designed for women with concealed carry in mind. Amy is the host of the Amy Robbins Podcast and a regular cultural and political commentator. Amy, welcome to Sunday the Road Forward. It is great to see you.

[Amy Robbins]

Hey, Ryan, it's always great to be with you.

[Ryan Helenbein]

I, I've noticed there's a lot of controversy this week. I know you can't help but notice this.

This is kind of hit a fever pitch. For weeks on end, Candace Owens has gone on her podcast daily, almost talking about Charlie's murder, his assassination. We all have questions, we all have suspicions, we all have an interest in, in getting to the bottom of what this is. However, Candace has has trumped up all kinds of stories about bad actors within Turning Point itself, accusing various members, accusing pastors in Calvary Chapel, including Frank Turek and, you know, accusing Macron and, and the French government. It's, it's kind of crazy to follow all of this. I don't think that every conspiracy is wrong. I just want to say this from the, from the beginning, Amy, I know you and I, we watched what happened during COVID We saw BLM, we saw J6. We knew that the public popular narratives being promot by the media were largely untrue. And that's everything from masks to vaccines to BLM was not some kind of an operation funded by the Ford foundation to promote Marxism. No, no, no. This is about social justice for black Americans. We know that we were lied to for years. However, that doesn't make every conspiracy theory automatically true. And here we are in this moment and even people like Erica Kirk have been insinuated as being a part of some dastardly plot to kill Charlie Kirk. And I just think that's crazy.

[Amy Robbins]

Look, I want to kind of second what you said, that there, there's importance in asking questions. I mean, look at the history of our government. They don't have the greatest track record of being something that the people can just completely blindly trust anymore. That has kind of gone out the window, especially in this day and age with social media where every single one of us kind of had access to that horrific event that happened to Charlie. We saw it. And you had people that, you know, I don't fault people for asking questions. I think it's important to ask questions. But what I think we have to be really careful of, especially when it comes to people like Candace Owens, who is blatantly throwing out accusations without irrefutable evidence. That is where we start to come to the problem. And she, up into this point, she keeps saying, I have the evidence, I have the evidence, but she's presented no evidence. And to me, the Bible is very clear about the importance of choosing our words wisely. And I think in a situation like this where you, you know, when you have to pause every so many minutes to read a sponsored ad in the middle of your story, you know, to me it comes off very click baity. It comes off, you know, she's making millions of dollars off of dragging people along, but she's dragging people's name through the mud while she's doing it without actually presenting evidence. And you know, people have to remember that Candace is not the judicial system. Candace is not the one that she's not an investigator at this point. This is still an ongoing investigation. And while I think it's good that she's asking questions, the way she asks questions implements people in such a way that people start to believe without evidence that certain people are involved in this. And I think that is where it's really scary. It's, it's really sad because now those people get a target on their backs as well. And, you know, and she better start producing something very quickly that backs up these claims and these accusations that she's making, especially against people within Turning Point, the very organization that Charlie Kirk gave his life for, spent his life building and gave his life for. And you know, I just think it is, it's, we need to all pay attention to the words that we speak a little bit more carefully and, you know, just not go out there and question, like make accusations based on questions when we don't have the evidence yet and ready to present and all put together in one big case. The guy's going to get his day in court. And we hope that all the correct evidence is presented at that point. And if there are some holes in that story that I think, think we do need to get answers to that, but we don't have all those answers at this point. And so I think what's happening is really dangerous, and it's dangerous to the people that are being implicated in all of this as well.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Absolutely. Never mind the fact that there. There really is a shooter that has been caught. And rather than putting the focus and the attention where it should be, you know, transgender activist committing this heinous crime, potentially others that are involved in this. Sure. But there needs to be a trial. What there needs not to be is a mistrial, a miscarriage of justice. And so, you know, there can be this element of such interference happening at such levels that it even gives a defense attorney the ability to go to the judge and say, there has been so much undue influence outside on this trial. You know, we can't possibly try this case properly. You know, you know, I'm going to petition the court to, you know, a judge's ruling to. To issue a mistrial or something like that. Something ridiculous. That's where we have to be so careful. There is a reason why justice is slow. There's a reason why it takes a long. A long period of time for all this information to get out there. I think that one of the things I was happy to see is in. In the aftermath of J6, after months and months and months and even a year, year and a half went by, we had mounting evidence to prove that this was not actually an insurrection. There was some dumb things that happened. People did some dumb stuff. People do. Some people did belong in jail. The vast majority of people on that day were not doing anything actually wrong in the way that the media tried to describe it. And in this case, I think what we might end up finding out about the Utah shooter is that so much of the blame falls squarely on this individual. But either way, we need to have a trial. We need to have transparency. We need to have due process. We don't want influencers interfering with that.

[Amy Robbins]

Yeah, that's. You make such a great point on all of that. And, you know, I think you're right. It's like this. There's a reason why he's not going to trial right this second. And you have to take a lot of time to put these pieces together because, a, you don't want to falsely accuse somebody, and you want to make sure that you have all the evidence that you can bring. I mean, it goes on both sides. And so I feel. I do. My heart does go out to the people that have been implicated in all of this. And Quite frankly, I, I'm not even following it and watching it anymore because I don't want to give it the clicks. I don't want to give it the notoriety, the, you know, the, I don't want to validate what she's saying right now. And you know, I, it's just. But you can't avoid it at this point. It's everywhere. Everybody is talking about it and you're, you're starting to see spinoffs from other podcasts that are using her information, which isn't even actually information. So, you know, I just hope that we do get justice in this case. Everybody wants answers. Everybody wants to see somebody held accountable for what happened to Charlie. And then we can't forget in the meantime that we still have a widow and a family who is still grieving over the loss of her husband, over the father. And to be drugged through this, I think it's just really unimaginable. And I don't think it's, I don't think it's right to do that to Erica.

[Ryan Helenbein]

Absolutely. We will leave it there. Amy Robbins, really appreciate you joining Sunday the Road Forward CEO and founder of Alexo Athletica. I encourage our viewers to go check you guys out. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

[Amy Robbins]

Thanks, Ryan.

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[Ryan Helenbein]

Thank you for watching Sunday the Road Forward Charles Spurgeon once said, a time of great calamity and confusion has been allowed to come upon us. The Church is not blameless in this matter. She has been stumbling when she should have been awake. When the enemy came in like a flood. The Spirit of the Lord should have lifted up a standard against him through his people. But we are not ready for the fight. The fight is here. The church must be awake. Let's pray that God would stir our hearts, revive his people, and that we would be found Faithful watchmen in this hour. I'll leave you on that note until next time. God bless you.

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