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- [00:00]
Shane Winnings
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Guaranteed Human support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice.
- [01:02]
Ryan Helenbein
Complete disclosures available at public.com/disclosures It's Sunday, February 1, 2026. Welcome to Real America's Voice News. This is Sunday, the Road Forward. Last Friday, tens of thousands of Americans marched through the streets of Washington, D.C. for the 53rd annual March for Life. Under the theme of Life is a Gift, pro life advocates brave the winter cold to stand for the unborn, just as they have every January since 1974. Three and a half years after Dobbs Battle for Life has shifted to the States. But the marchers keep coming and they keep showing up year after year because abortion is not ended in this country. And that perseverance matters now more than ever because we're not just facing another year, we're facing a pivotal moment in America. The 2026 midterm elections are nine months away and control of Congress and hangs in the balance. Immigration policy, economic security, national security, all of these issues will be on the ballot. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court docket is loaded with cases that will shape religious freedom, freedom of speech and the marriage and family for decades. The stakes couldn't be higher. As Christians, we must be faithful and realize that life is not a short sprint, but it's a long haul in the direction of faithfulness. We must be faithful over the entirety of our lives, no matter the season. It's what Eugene Peterson calls long obedience. In the same direction, our scripture Reading today comes From Galatians chapter 6:9 and let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. As always, we want to be an encouragement to our viewers to hold fast to the unchanging Word of God and to persevere in faithfulness. I'm Ryan Helenbein. I'm filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton. I'll be your host today.
- [03:37]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
For more encouragement and to stay connected, follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X. We love being a part of your life.
- [03:52]
Ryan Helenbein
Joining us now is Matt Staver. He's a constitutional lawyer and a former dean of Liberty University School School of Law. He's also the founder and chairman of Liberty Council, an organization dedicated to non profit litigation, education and policy organization to advance religious liberty, the sanctity of human life and the marriage and family. Thank you so much, Matt for joining Sunday. The road forward is great to see you.
- [04:19]
Matt Staver
Thank you, Ryan. Always good to be with you.
- [04:21]
Ryan Helenbein
Of course, you are doing so much work across the country. And when it comes to the sanctity of life, I cannot help but speak speak about the fact that the March for Life happened. It was the 53rd annual march. I actually took about a thousand Liberty students up to Washington D.C. 20 buses. And certainly it's very historic when you can do something like that. We're so thankful for Dobbs, but there's a lot of losses, key losses that we've experienced in the past couple of years. You are certainly carrying on that battle when it comes to the courts. Tell us a little bit about what we can learn from it.
- [04:59]
Matt Staver
Well, thanks for taking the Liberty students. They were certainly visible because they were clearly identified and very pro life. And in fact, the majority of the people that are there are in their 20 somethings. They're the young generation that is exciting, that's pro life and they're carrying the torch. But yes, post Dobbs 2022, it's an amazing situation where the Dobbs decision overturned Roe versus Wade and planned Parent versus Casey. Great decision. We all rejoiced in that decision. The Supreme Court actually cited Liberty Counsel's brief in that historic decision. But then since Dobbs, the issue has gone from the Supreme Court from the federal level to the states. And that's where the battle has been mixed. We've won a lot of battles on the state level, but unfortunately there's also some state constitutional amendments that have gone the wrong way. And there's even one right there in Virginia that's on the ballot and Many other states that are doing the same thing. So we have to really be vigilant, Ryan, because the battle has intensified, hasn't gotten less since Dobbs. It's gotten more intense because instead of fighting it at the federal level, we're now having to fight it at 50 different state levels and territories.
- [06:12]
Ryan Helenbein
You know, for those who think, hey, you know, we need to take this all or nothing approach, we need total abolition, we need it today. Why can't we get it today? We should just be, you know, proposing legislation in all 50 states to end abortion right now. What's the problem with that?
- [06:31]
Matt Staver
Well, I think we're all abolitionists. We all want to support the sanctity of human life, to make the womb a safe place once again. We don't support abortion. I don't think anybody in the pro life movement does. The question is, how do you get there? Do you build the wall and the building one brick at a time, or do you just put the building up all at once? And so I think you have to go one brick at a time. That's how Dobbs was ultimately the case that overturned Roe versus Wade. One brick at a time, one piece of legislation at a time. Some were struck down, some were upheld. The foundation of Roe was weakened and finally it collapsed. And I think that's what we have to do. And we're all in this with the same objective. It's just how do we get there? I think if you try to eat the elephant in one bite, you're going to choke on it. So sometimes you have to just eat the elephant one bite at a time.
- [07:19]
Ryan Helenbein
Yeah, I could not agree more. Tell us a little bit about though, turning our attention. Just some of the cases that you're working on at Liberty Council looking forward to 2026. Some of these things are coming up pretty quick. Tell us about those.
- [07:36]
Matt Staver
Well, one big case is versus Liberty University. I'm going to be arguing that case at the Federal at the Federal Court of appeals on March 17th. It's a huge case. It's about an individual who really tried to set Liberty up, began taking female hormones four months before applying, then applied to Liberty in department that interacts with students, faculty and staff signed off on the doctrinal statement, which Liberty's doctrinal statement is really an example for every university, every Christian employer for profit and not for profit to follow. It's very clear. It says God created us in his image, male and female, and that anyone who identifies as a sex other than how God created you at birth, that's A sin. Very clear. He signed off on that. Then he waited for the 90 day probation to expire. And then he says, you know what? I'm transitioning. I want be called Eleanor. I'm going to become a quote, unquote, woman. Of course, that violates Liberty's doctrine. That would be open, obvious violation of the doctrinal core statement. And Liberty University let Mr. Zinski go. He then, with the help of the ACLU, filed a lawsuit. Now, this case is at the Federal Court of Appeals. This case is being watched by a lot of people. We had a lot of amicus priests that joined us from other universities of a wide variety of faiths supporting our position that we're arguing. But we also had 19 states, plus the District of Columbia. These are blue states that filed a brief to oppose us. Why? Because they fear that if our religious freedom argument wins, they're not going to be able to control Christian religious organizations anymore with their LGBTQ agenda and propaganda. And certainly that's true. So this case is really pivotal because the intersection between religious freedom and this LGBTQ agenda is really the tip of the iceberg. And this is the critical battle that we're facing all over the country today.
- [09:28]
Ryan Helenbein
You know, it is fascinating to think, you know, that religious liberty would be called into question based on the sexual identity, you know, sexual orientation and gender identity phenomena. This is something that is relatively new, I think, you know, when it comes to the culture war. But I think it was in the Biden administration, it was Antony Blinken, that. That made this the policy of the. Of the Department of. To no longer promote religious liberty when it comes to human rights worldwide, but instead to focus on sogi. And it seems like that still is kind of the approach of the left, that anywhere that there is a cultural line to be drawn on the issue of SOGI versus religious liberty, they want to see SOGI prevail.
- [10:18]
Matt Staver
Yeah, the sexual orientation issues, that, in fact, is a zero sum game. What I mean by that is there is no compromise. It's not because people of faith don't want to cope, coexist. It's because people that are pushing the LGBTQ agenda cannot coexist because they will not tolerate anyone who disagrees. Not only disagrees, but they want you to be a cheerleader for that cause. And if you're not a cheerleader, then they want to silence you, they want to deplatform you, and in some cases, you know, they even want to take your life. So this is a very significant issue. And the reason is, is because it Goes to the heart of what Liberty University's doctrinal statement is, God created us in his image, male and female. And when you take that and you say, well, we can create ourselves into our own image, we can be a man or a woman, a combination of both. Neither, Whatever. You are then replacing God as the Creator and saying that you can do a better job, that God made a mistake, and you're going to do the creation of your own image. That is a direct rebellion against God. And that's why this is targeting religious freedom, because it antithetical to this idea that you can be your own God and create yourself into your own image.
- [11:35]
Ryan Helenbein
I want to turn now just to talking a little bit about, you know, the reintroduction of the Ten Commandments. There was a bill in Louisiana, there was also a bill in Texas that's currently being challenged in some courts. What is, what is it about the reemergence? I thought, you know, you go back to the 1980s, early 1980s, SCOTUS struck that down. What enabled that to all of a sudden reemerge as a legal question?
- [12:01]
Matt Staver
Well, it actually began again around 2000. Liberty Council represented a number of different counties in Kentucky that wanted to post the Ten Commandments. And in fact, that 1980 case actually came out of Kentucky, and so they wanted to post the Ten Commandments. The cases went all the way up to the United States Supreme Court. One from Texas, a standalone, and one as a display out of Kentucky. A case that we represented in 2005, that was the last time the Supreme Court used the Lemon test. And those two cases showed how absurd it was because they used the 1971 so called Lemon vs Kurtzman decision in the Texas case, but not. Or in the Kentucky case, but not in the Texas case. So it showed how arbitrary it was last time they ever used it. Then you move on into 2022. And by the way, from that time on, we've never lost a Ten Commandments case, whether standalone or in a context of other documents. So people have had a resurgence of bringing in this moral found because of the moral collapse that we've seen in our nation. So then what happens is Lemon gets overturned in 2022 because of a case that we had, Shirley versus City of Boston. And then another case, the Coach Kennedy case, it's gone. So it's over with. 51 years is gone. Now it's a new day. And the Supreme Court says we need to go back to the historical understanding of what the purpose of the First Amendment is about. And from there, that's why you get the Louisiana law, the Texas law, and the resurgence of having the 10 command. It's returned to the classroom. So one court went the wrong way, but now 17 judges of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals said, no, we want to rehear this issue. And you know what the ACLU argues? Well, it's the Stone vs Graham 1980 case out of Kentucky. And the judges said, you know what? I don't think that's relevant law anymore. It got overturned in 2022 with Lemon, because it relied on Lemon. It's no good law. So we're in a new day. I think those cases will be also upheld in terms of displaying the Ten Commandments. It's a new day. We're not under this 51 year, distorted version of the First Amendment that an activist series of justices in the 70s created out of thin air. We're now more consistent with the original understanding and purpose of the First Amendment. And that's good news when it comes.
- [14:22]
Ryan Helenbein
To the overall cultural and sort of legal ethos. You know, it's interesting that, that all of a sudden now you have this reintroduction of morality when it comes to legality. It's. It. The Ten Commandments is not about compelling people's worship or even religious beliefs, but it is about a recognition of a universal morality. You shouldn't steal, don't commit adultery, don't bear false witness. By the way, our entire, entire legal code follows that too. Right? There's no partiality. There's due process of law. This is. This is. This is common sense, I would think. And when we take an oath of office, we swear by a higher power and a higher authority. So help me God, when we invoke the Constitution and these liberties that shouldn't be infringed, we have to swear by some greater authority than government. Why can't that be God?
- [15:22]
Matt Staver
Well, the research that we did, which was fascinating back in the early 2000s when we were defending these cases, I learned a lot, frankly, from litigating these cases. And that is how significant and influential the Ten Commandments has been in Western civilization, in the Western legal tradition, not only here in the United States, but obviously predating the United States. And the Ten Commandments, obviously in its importance and its influence, predated the First Amendment. So how would the First Amendment ever consider overruling the Ten Commandments? That would be unbelievably blasphemous back then and certainly even now. So the Ten Commandments is so influential. You look at the United States, the first Supreme Court. Why does it have 50 or so displays inside and outside of the United States Supreme Court? The most prominent display is the Ten Commandments. It's the only written words inside the courtroom. Where you actually argue before the justices is part of the Ten Commandments on the tablets of stone. Why is it there? Because the Ten Commandments form the foundation of the rule of law, Western civilization, the Western legal tradition, our notions of right and wrong, our legal codes, all of that is based upon and founded upon the Ten Commandments. And so, you know, this case in 1980, the activist judges, it wasn't even argued before the court. It was at what's called the petition for review or certiority level. It wasn't even fully briefed. They just reached out and said, oh, well, if these kids actually followed the Ten Commandments and obeyed what it actually says, well, that would be an establishment of religion. How ridiculous. So I think what's happened is the moral erosion. When we've taken the Ten Commandments out of the school in 1980, we've seen the consequences. And now people are realizing, you know what? We need to get back to some basics. The Ten Commandments, whether you like it or not, they have influenced and they continue to influence for good American law. And in fact, I would encourage somebody just go on a Google search for scholars, for example, and look at scholarly articles and type in quote 10 commandments. And you know what you'll get tens of thousands of articles that will say, 10 commandments of motorcycle mechanics, 10 commandments of growing a better garden, 10 commandments of painting your house. Why? Because it stands for the rule of law. And isn't that a good thing?
- [17:41]
Ryan Helenbein
It is a great thing. And I couldn't agree with you more. I think some historians have helped me think through this. But from 1760 to 1805, there is no greater influence on our Federalist writings, the papers, and then the pre constitutional writings than the Old Testament, in particular the book of Deuteronomy. And so it's very important. It's important to our legal tradition and American history. We are not Americans without it. And I appreciate you so much for what you're doing. Matt Staver at Liberty Council to advance freedom and to call us back to our roots and our foundation. Thank you so much for joining Sunday the Road Forward.
- [18:22]
Matt Staver
Well, thank you. Good to be with you. And for people that want to find out more about us, they can go to our website. LC.
- [18:29]
Ryan Helenbein
Thank you.
- [18:33]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
For more encouragement and to stay connected. Follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X. We love being a part of your.
- [18:40]
Matt Staver
Life.
- [18:48]
Dr. Tim Clinton
Do people ever come to you asking for help? Maybe hope?
- [18:51]
Ryan Helenbein
How about prayer?
- [18:53]
Dr. Tim Clinton
Do you ever wish you understood the issues better that people are wrestling with? Or how about how to use the Bible more effectively in caring for people? If so, I'd love to get a copy of our Caring Counsel Bible in Your Hands featuring 116 topics written by some of the world's best mental health and ministry experts. I think you'll love it. Topics like discouragement, abuse, depression, divorce anxiety, abortion and more. So you can learn more about these issues and how to use the Bible more effectively. How to share passages of Scripture with others, maybe even yourself as you're sitting down over a cup of coffee. You know what I love most about this Bible is that it's so easy to use. You can find right up front an index with subjects, key passages of scripture, personality profiles and so much more to go to so you can use the Bible more effectively and caring for other people. The Caring Council Bible right now is retailing for $85. We're going to make it available to you for just 49.99 plus shipping. I think you're going to love it. Hey, for more information about how you can get this Bible right now, go to careandcouncil.com that's careandcouncil.com support for the.
- [20:11]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
Show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis Thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures joining me.
- [21:12]
Ryan Helenbein
Now is Dave Bratt. He's the former Virginia congressman from the 7th district and he currently serves as senior vice president of Business relations at Liberty University, the world's largest evangelical institution of higher learning. Dave, you are a regular contributor on Steve Bannon. Welcome to Real America's Voice Sunday, the road forward. Great to see you.
- [21:34]
Dave Brat
Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for all you do at the Freedom center here at Liberty as well. Great, great group.
- [21:40]
Ryan Helenbein
Well, my pleasure. I wanted to talk a little bit about the economy, something you know a lot about. And recently the president was actually at the World Economic Forum. Among many things, he did talk about Greenland. He talked about tariffs. I would love to hear your take on some of this. But then he also talked about tackling the in the inflation issue, dealing with affordability going into 2026 and that's certainly going to impact the midterm elections. What are your thoughts there? It's particularly when it comes to the issue of affordability in America.
- [22:15]
Dave Brat
Yeah, well, let's backtrack because you got my blood pressure going there with old Klaus Schwab who was trained in by another elitist the, the Kissinger to Nixon. And now we got Fink and these guys statements on the record are just incredible. Klaus Schwab, you know, had all those it's all about globus elitist control and they mean it. And they're like, you will have nothing and you will be happy. That's a quote from Schwab. And now think the ten trillion dollar man's running that thing. And he's got similar at when he was at blackrock, he said we, we believe in control and we're going to use control to shape, shape minds and we're going to coerce behavior. That in quotes coming out of these guys, it's about as un American feel as you can get. And then at that meeting, it's just kind of stunning. You've got Carney and these guys and they're saying we're going to do the new New World Order again. And so the phraseology is just very strange to American ears. So when you hear that. But I think we're making progress on the international stage and it's not all smooth sailing, but I think this is going to actually strengthen our friendships. It's a bit ironic with Trump's tariffs right in the U.S. they said that's going to cause inflation. And a year later, there's no evidence in any economic journals. The San Francisco Fed came out and said short run, there's no inflation from the tariffs. And in fact, he's Creating more free trade by using tariffs than I ever conceived. We all want free trade. That's kind of the textbook ideal. But we don't have free markets anymore. And that's what Trump has kind of made clear. Right. We have monopolies and oligopolies and oligarchs running this country. The Magnificent Seven guys make up 40% of the S&P507 firms, which are basically all monopolies. And so the one stat I always like to share with people, the G20, the richest 20 countries in the world had 200 to 300% higher tariff and non tariff barriers on the US than we had on them pre Trump. No one knows this stuff and it's all true. And now you've got Europe and everybody racing to do free trade agreements with each other. Terrorists are coming, tariff levels are coming down, and the world's doing more trade. So it's just kind of ironic on the inflation front, the Federal Reserve controls inflation and, you know, I'm not too worried about that. I'm more worried about our government spending. You know, the $2 trillion deficits, that's, that's triggering the inflation more than anything else. Is that stimulative? $2 trillion deficits per year, that's stimulative. And the Republican Congress doesn't look much better than the Democrats when it comes to spending. And they got to reel it back in.
- [25:35]
Ryan Helenbein
You know, it's interesting. Trump had always kind of used tariffs as a point of leverage. I mean, he's the negotiator. Art of the deal, art of the comeback. Yeah, it's almost as if he needed to create a pressure valve, which is the, the threat of tariffs, so then he could also create a release valve and in the way of, you know, getting people scared of, you know, being in a position where they're no longer having access to American markets. And then he says, you know what I'm not going to do, I'm not going to do tariffs or I'm not going to raise tariffs on you guys, but here's what I want instead. Right?
- [26:16]
Dr. Tim Clinton
Right.
- [26:16]
Ryan Helenbein
When you look at the Greenland situation, that kind of came out of this access to, to rare earth minerals, greater partnership when it comes to military cooperation and being able to build up there, the Golden Dome missile defense system. Was all of that leading up to, you know, him actually not wanting to take or annex Greenland, but just to work out a better deal for common sense.
- [26:45]
Dave Brat
Yeah, one, in hindsight, that's what it looks like. And Rubio, Secretary of State was, you know, Sending that kind of signal as well, in parallel with Trump's statements. And, and you know, Trump, the other irony, he, he talks more about peace than anyone. He wants peace domestically in the country. And he, you know, where they, where you got the, the locals working with the feds. You got peace. I want peace. You want peace. The Bible wants peace. Christian wants peace. And the rest of the world, he wants peace as well. He's working hard on that. And you can see all these forces, right? The corruption in Minnesota and it 10 billion, billion range. And then we still can't get an audit on the Ukraine war. That's 300 over $300 billion. That went somewhere. That's American taxpayer money. We don't know where it went. And so, you know, the great asset of President Trump is he is the most transparent. Doesn't matter what people say about him. He's in front of the press every day, taking questions from 40 people simultaneously on any issue they want to discuss.
- [27:54]
Ryan Helenbein
Yeah.
- [27:55]
Dave Brat
And he just, it, it's, it's pretty, pretty amazing. And so, but the whole world does need to work together right now. You know, it's some of the countries, they act like China doesn't exist, right? So they, right, they want to react to bilateral lingo and etc. But then they go home and they go, oh, you know, and so the USA has always been the best country, right? The Christians, as you know, we set up human rights language in the first place. We gave rights to all minority groups in this country, protected in the Constitution, private property rights, the rule of law. That's the Judeo Christian west from the book of Deuteronomy, which was the most cited book in the Bible. And we created something great. And so now some of that's being threatened. The very book that gave minority rights being used by minority rights. They want to kick that book out of the schools. The book that gave everyone rights. And so you're just, you're scratching your head like, well, I don't get what you. Where you guys are going here, right? And so it's. I think we got the right cookbook. We just need to stick to our knitting. We all want good. What's good for every country. We need to say that. But with that, you know, everyone, it's not all grace.
- [29:16]
Ryan Helenbein
There's.
- [29:16]
Dave Brat
There's also law. And it's both at the same time, you know.
- [29:20]
Ryan Helenbein
Okay, so heading into 2026. We're in 2026 now. January is almost over. We're looking towards the midterms. Everything matters, everything counts, right? Now. And so on the one hand, you have immigration and you have what's taking place transpiring in places like Minnesota. In fact, I think I looked at a report less than 2% of all ice activity is happening in Minnesota. The majority of ice activity is happening in Texas, Florida and California. And by, by greater than 50%. You're not seeing anything in the news about that. But instead it's all focused there in Minnesota. So you've got the press that is propagating a false narrative there. Meanwhile, you've got the affordability crisis. And that's things like housing that's needing to be solved. And part of that is because we have illegal immigrants and we even have temporary status migration that was granted by the Biden administration where they're housing migrants in certain places. How does this get solved or fixed in such a way. Yeah, that, that Republicans don't pay a heavy price in the midterm election?
- [30:36]
Dave Brat
Yeah, well, the, the president, you know, I think you just set the context pretty clear right there. We had 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants. Some of them commit crimes. Mexico and Peter Schweitzer's new book, the Mexican elites are using pretty strong language that they, they intend to do that and other, other cartels around the world, et cetera. And so you got massive crime up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And then like you said, where, where the feds are working well with the localities. So there aren't the issues. But when the localities say we're not going to follow federal law, which the Supreme Court has adjudicated very clearly, that's, that's illegal.
- [31:19]
Dr. Tim Clinton
Yeah.
- [31:19]
Dave Brat
And the folks that are contesting ICE in public, you know, a lot of that is not peaceful protests with people with placards just expressing their views. It's a felony to engage violently with federal law protectors, ice. And so that's going to be adjudicated too. And so, you know, you've got to keep the rule of law if, if we, if you lose that as a country. Right. That the, the federal law can be violated if a group ops out, you know, just because they want to after some young reporter show who's $10 billion in corruption, some young guy who's, you know, that's just stunning. At some point the politicians got to say, hey, you know, if you do the right thing and message on it, the American people will trust you. And we need to go in bigger. Right. They need to cordon off these things and maybe the new head of ice, Homan, will get an operational strategy where we don't have These conflicts and they just, just, you know, arrest the folks who, who are violent criminals. And that he seems to be signaling that's what he's going to do.
- [32:40]
Ryan Helenbein
Yes. And I do think, and I just saw the post just this last week on Truth Social where the President was basically saying he had a phone call with Governor Walz that they are going to cooperate, that Homan is, he has been mobilized. He is in Minnesota. We saw what happened at the, the city's church there in St. Paul. Pastor Jonathan Parnell. He's got, he's got ties to Liberty, he's got ties to other sister schools in the country. We know John, we know Jonathan Parnell. He's a good man. You know, this clearly is a Marxist play that's happening to subvert federal law enforcement. As into your point. When does the Insurrection act get invoked? At some point. When do, when do you say, hey, if you're not willing to go along and cooperate, hopefully Walls is cooperating now, but if you don't, you say, hey, we're going to have to take it to another level.
- [33:40]
Dave Brat
Yeah, well, I, that is a tough call because this stuff is coordinated. That's all been proven beyond a doubt now. And the Marxist leanings are very clear. These, these color revolutions are going way back. So the tricky part there is, you know, do you want to. The Insurrection Act Act, I'm all for it in this case. Right. When you have insurrection and that's just defined. If it says if, if the state local have lost control, if they're insubordinate to the, to the law, both of those are happening, then you can invoke the, the Insurrection Act. But then the other party who wants to have a big government.
- [34:21]
Ryan Helenbein
Right.
- [34:22]
Dave Brat
That's the problem. The leftists are the Marxists. They want it, they want the revolution to take over. And then you're ceding that precedent probably is why they're, you know, they're waiting. They're waiting as long as they can on that. But you know, if you lose control of a state or of a city and it becomes violent and violence wins. Right. ICE is just trying to arrest, right. The most violent criminals and they're not being allowed to do their job. And so that, that is not the violent part. Right. And the folks seem to miss the part where illegal immigrants. Illegal. And so you just go back to that. Where did this start? It started, roughly speaking, when Biden let 10 million folks in illegally on purpose. And then they weren't detained and they were let and flown into the country intentionally into certain populated districts where they need votes and that that is the cause and for folks to just focus on the violent acts and the in the news is that that's not the right starting point.
- [35:29]
Ryan Helenbein
Point. Well done Dave Brat. Appreciate you as always in your comments this morning. We hope to see great outcomes in the 2026 midterms. No one could say it better this morning. God bless you.
- [35:42]
Dave Brat
Awesome. God bless you back. Thanks Ryan. Appreciate it.
- [35:49]
Dr. Tim Clinton
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- [37:25]
Ryan Helenbein
Joining us now is Shane Winnings. Shane is a former Afghan vet, a former law enforcement officer and the current CEO of Promise Keepers. Shane, great to see you. Thank you for joining Sunday, the Road Forward.
- [37:37]
Shane Winnings
Hey, thanks for having me.
- [37:38]
Ryan Helenbein
Hey, for those of us who don't know there, there are many viewers that have taken part I, I, I'm sure in Promise Keepers events conferences that, that have happened in the past. I'm even reminded even this morning of a march that took place in Washington D.C. all the way back in 1997. Founded by Bill McCartney, Promise Keepers has done great work for decades. You're, you're steering it now. You're in the leadership position. And so God bless you for this work. But tell us a little bit about Promise Keepers, your history.
- [38:14]
Shane Winnings
Yeah, so we were founded in 1990, same year I was born, which is crazy to think about. Bill McCartney, he was a college football coach for University or Colorado University. The Buffaloes actually won a national championship, which is pretty cool. But he recognized, you know, at that time. And it might be hard for people to think about now because there's just so much out there, especially with social media. But in the, you know, in the 80s and early 90s, there were not a lot of ministries for men. And he saw a need there and so he started Promise Keepers. And you know, it started with a handful of guys meeting in a room and it kept doubling until eventually Promise Keepers was selling out 15 to 20 NFL stadiums in a year, doing men's conferences. And then as you mentioned, in 1997, held the largest gathering in U.S. history at the National Mall in D.C. 1.4 million men. And we're actually doing a 30 year anniversary gathering at the National Mall on October 2, 2027, where we're going to call men for a solemn assembly because we just believe, you know, if the men of America, the spiritual leaders of the home and of the church, will bow their knee before God and repent on behalf of our nation, we could see something supernatural happen and we really need it.
- [39:35]
Ryan Helenbein
We absolutely do. You know, I, I'm reminded that, you know, all around our country and in the western world, there seems to be a war on men. You know, we hear the term thrown around, toxic masculinity. While there's been a lot of pushback, you know, with that term, you know, whether you see it on social media or in the media, you, you see books that are being written, we still see a huge vacuous G. Male leadership. Men are called to do extraordinary things. Not to an ordinary life, but extraordinary life of purpose and calling and responsibility and accountability. But there, there is a gap. The gap remains. And this is not just something I think, Shane. You know, a lot of people blame Gen Z, but it didn't start with them. It's a, it's gone for decades now. You go from the boomer generation, Gen Xers, I'm a millennial. And then you have the youngest generation, the Gen Alpha generation. They are the most unchurched, most atheistic generation by far. And many of them are fatherless. They have no men in the home.
- [40:45]
Shane Winnings
Yeah, it's really sad. And we can't blame the next generation. They, they inherit what was left to them, just like we inherited what our, you know, really, what our grandparents left us. And. And I blame. It's twofold, you know, men not stepping up, but also feminism on the rise, which is ultimately toxic. Masculinity, or the feminization of men and feminism, or the perversion of, you know, our roles given to us by God. They're both demonic, they're both wrong. God created male and female. He created us equally. But we have different roles in the home. We have different roles in society. And when the world comes in and tries to level the playing field, they're really just blurring the lines between male and female. And that is why we have such a confused generation to the point where, you know, men try to become women, women try to become men. We got to restore order. We have to just go back to the basics, back to Genesis, back to male and female, and then we have to graduate from, okay, there's only two genders now. What does that look like? Like, and for men, it looks like being leaders in society, being leaders in the home, caring for women. And so, sadly, the church does desperately need this education again, and that's really the gap that PK is trying to fill.
- [42:05]
Ryan Helenbein
Yeah, I. I wholeheartedly agree that. That men need to take up leadership in this country. Talk a little bit, though. You know, you. Your background, you're a former Afghan vet. You were in law enforcement. Also help people understand your profile. Became CEO of Promise Keepers. You founded a group called the Overcomers. Wanted to talk a little bit about that as well.
- [42:31]
Shane Winnings
Yeah, so I. I joined the military out of college. I went on an ROTC scholarship, so I went in as an officer, served with some great men in the 1st Special Forces Group. And then after my deployment to Afghanistan, shortly after that, I transitioned out to become a cop. And I served in Federal Way, Washington, just south of Seattle, for five years. But it was during that time I had a radical encounter with the Lord. And he got a hold of me, and I began to, one, you know, follow him, but two, to preach and to minister. And, you know, that eventually led to me going full time as a missionary and then led to me taking over Promise Keepers over two years ago. And I just see this spiritual war. You know, I've seen. I've seen the spiritual war on the front lines of what the enemy's doing when I was a cop, you know, because every call we go to someone is acting out of their flesh or doing what the devil wants them to do. And that was crazy. But now, you know, as a. As a full time preacher and speaker, I see the spiritual War in a different light. And I do see the attack on our identity. And so I started. Before I took over Promise Keepers, I started a ministry called Overcomers. And it was just this idea that like. Like one, we're. We're not defeated. You know, if you're a Christian, we have the victory in Christ Jesus, and so let's start acting like it, and then let's start picking things that the enemy is trying to kick us out of or defeat us in, and let's overcome. And so whether it's our identity in Christ, whether it's our role in the home or in society, whatever it is, I wanted people to have that mindset of I will always overcome. And so. So when I took over Promise Keepers, we kind of infused Overcomers. And now that's the name of our weekly men's Bible study that happens every Wednesday night. So it's cool. We got to hold on to a piece of that.
- [44:24]
Ryan Helenbein
You know, I. I can't help but be reminded, and this is a good reminder this morning for those who are listening, that Jesus said, this is in John's gospel. In this world, you will have trouble.
- [44:38]
Dave Brat
Trouble.
- [44:38]
Ryan Helenbein
And I think a lot of times for Christians in our. In our identity and our walk with the Lord, we. We know about the trouble. We know about the tribulations. We know about the trials of life. We know that persecution is going to come. And a lot of times, I think people just stop with that front end of that statement. But there's a second half. There's a clause that comes right after that. He says, but fear not, for I have overcome the world. And we worship up a risen king who died as a result of our sin, but he knows his way beyond the grave. And we are more than conquerors. That's in Romans, chapter 8. And nothing can separate us from the love of God.
- [45:19]
Shane Winnings
Amen.
- [45:19]
Ryan Helenbein
And I think that there are a lot of Christians today, Christian men who have an identity crisis. They've forgotten who they are in Christ for first, and then they forgot who they are as men. And I don't mean men of the flesh. I mean men in the spirit who walk in righteousness, who need to be confident not in their own strength, but in Christ's strength, working through them, and then confident of the mission. I mean, these. There's a lot of milli mouth soft inside voices today. Yeah, Right. And so, like people who walk softly and talk tepidly about Jesus and talk tepidly about conservatism or about male responsibility.
- [46:01]
Shane Winnings
Right.
- [46:01]
Ryan Helenbein
We need a lion's roar And I think that's, that's what's missing today. Men being real men. It's good to be a man, it's good to be a woman. Any woman is listening. It's good to be a woman. But if God has created you to be a man, embrace that identity, right?
- [46:17]
Shane Winnings
And our, our society will thrive and people will thrive when you step into your identity. You know, people get into an identity crisis when they either don't know who they are or they try to be someone else. So yes, to women, it's like, man, be that woman of God that He's called you to be. Step into it fully. Men do the same. You know, meekness is what we're called to, not weakness. And people have this idea of this like gummy bear Jesus who is just soft and he's good with everything and he's just a big teddy bear and he never did anything not nice, you know, and it's like Jesus wasn't nice. He was kind when, and you know, but he was not nice because nice people, you know, they will become a doormat. And if you, if you look at how he talked even to the Pharisees, you wouldn't describe that as nice, but you know, rebuking it is not nice. But it was necessary in the moment. And, and so I just think we're in this generation where people are afraid because they don't know God as well as they could. Because if we truly knew who God was and we knew who he called us to be, then we would stand for what he stands for, regardless of names we get called or any kind of pushback. And you know, I just think it's time for us to step up and to just unashamedly lead as those men of God that we're called to. And so until we do that, we're going to continue to see the fractures in our society. You know, we really need men to just be bold. And it's sad that the, the latest statistics, I believe the American Evangelical Church is now majority feminine. And if men were called to be the spiritual leaders of the home and the church, then we should be majority masculine, not feminine. And again, it's not because we have anything against women. It's because this is God's design and we're outside of the way that he created us to exist and operate. And I believe that's why a lot of these wounds we have as people are self inflicted. So identity is, is huge though. We've got to know who we are in Christ. And, and I want to Say this really quickly because you brought it up. When men are not on mission, we will fall into the hands of the devil or into our own sinful desires. You know, the old saying is idle hands are the devil's play things.
- [48:39]
Ryan Helenbein
That's right.
- [48:39]
Shane Winnings
And I think about King David. David, he fell because he was a man of war. But he was back at home relaxing and he fell into. He didn't fall into sin, he walked into sin with Bathsheba. But I remember what he said when he repented. And maybe anyone hearing this, this could be. It could strike a nerve with you. But David said, lord, restore me to the joy of your salvation. And I just think about like, like, dude, that is what so many people miss. Yes, we. It's important that we comment on all of these issues and politics and culture and we should speak to it. But at the end of the day, if the joy of salvation is not what drives you and makes up who you are, you're missing it. And, and I pray that any man listening would just start there. Like that is home base. The joy of being saved by God. Find out more about that and it will drive everything else you do.
- [49:35]
Dr. Tim Clinton
You.
- [49:35]
Ryan Helenbein
Amen. So well said. I think about what Hebrews says in Hebrews chapter 12, right after the hall of faith, that we fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, for the joy set before the him. Yes, he endured the cross, despising his shame. And so now he's seated at the right hand of the Father. He is. He has been glorified, he has ascended. But absolutely joy, joy is what should drive us. It is the. The pleasures of God, enjoying God. God, that is a good thing. And so men, men who do not derive joy from their first love, which should be Jesus Christ and the Gospel, if they don't derive joy there, they're going to look for it in other places. You're exactly right. In Samuel in the Old Testament, David was meant as a king to lead his people into war. Against who? The enemy. And so instead of going to war, he decided to recline on his couch and stay back home. And he was not where he was supposed to be.
- [50:37]
Dr. Tim Clinton
Yeah.
- [50:38]
Ryan Helenbein
And so I think when it comes to identity, it's the first know who you are and then what should you be doing and where should you be?
- [50:46]
Shane Winnings
That's right.
- [50:48]
Ryan Helenbein
So, hey, just final word of advice you might give us this morning. Advice for men who are just kind of drifting right now, not knowing their purpose or their identity. What would you say to them?
- [51:03]
Shane Winnings
Yeah, I've got A talk I did at Liberty, actually, which is crazy. It was a 20 minute speech. It's got almost a million views on social media. I never thought a full speech would take off, but I think it's because this issue is so desperately needed for people to speak to. But I cover, you know, as men, what we need to be. But if I had to break it down right now, I would say, look, you might not have the career you want, life might not be going the way you want, but you need to be working on three things, and that's becoming a priest, a provider, and a protector. Priest. Be someone who is pursuing Jesus, and if you have a family, you're leading them to Jesus on purpose every day. Provider, you know, you are practically providing. You're also providing stability, emotional stability, and that requires, you know, getting close with the Lord so that he can work in and through you and then being a protector. We've got to protect those around us, but we also have to protect them not just from physical harm, but from emotional damage, from bad ideology that comes in. And so if you're working on those three things every single day, God has the ability to speak to you, to move you. And the cool thing is it doesn't matter what your occupation is, is every man, I believe, needs to be fulfilling those three roles. And so, you know, just let that be an encouragement. Even if you're in a waiting season or a testing season, it's not for nothing. Romans 5 tells us that these tribulations come to produce character, perseverance and hope. And so just know that it's not for nothing, but make sure you're in the fight and you're not at home reclining.
- [52:35]
Ryan Helenbein
Absolutely. Make sure you are in the fight. Men, wherever you are, are. And make sure that Christ is the joy of your salvation. Shane. We'll leave it there, folks. Stick around for final thoughts.
- [52:54]
Podcast Sponsor/Announcer
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- [53:09]
Ryan Helenbein
As we close today, I want to leave you with these words from Charles spurgeon, the great 19th century Baptist preacher who understood what it meant to persevere through difficulty. He said this by perseverance, even the snail reached the ark. It's simple, but it's profoundly true. You don't always get there because you're the fastest or the strongest or the most impressive. You get there because you don't quit and you keep going. So don't quit. Don't grow weary of doing good. Keep standing, keep praying, keep seeking the Lord. Do not quit until next time. God bless you.
- [53:59]
Shane Winnings
This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human.