THE ROAD FORWARD | JUNE 28th, 2026

Summary

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THE ROAD FORWARD | Real America’s Voice News

Sunday, June 28, 2026

Host: Ryan Helfenbein (filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton)

Celebrating America’s 250th Anniversary – Faith, Freedom, and the Fight for the Nation’s Future

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This special episode of Real America’s Voice News, “The Road Forward,” marks the lead-up to America’s 250th Independence Day. Host Ryan Helfenbein brings together leading Christian thinkers, pro-life activists, historians, pastors, and financial experts to discuss the nation’s character, the legacy of faith in its founding, current threats to its values, and the enduring fight for spiritual and social renewal. With reflections on the Dobbs Supreme Court decision, debates on abortion, the Biblical roots of the nation, the role of men in society and the church, the dangers facing America’s economic foundation, and the hope for a third Great Awakening, the conversation consistently returns to a central theme: action rooted in faith, courage, and conviction is needed to defend and renew America.

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MAIN THEMES

• America’s 250th Anniversary: Celebrating, remembering, and reclaiming the nation’s founding values
• The legacy and ongoing challenges of the pro-life movement in a post-Dobbs America
• The foundational, Biblical principles of liberty behind America’s creation
• The crisis of masculinity, moral leadership, and the spiritual role of men
• The necessity of telling the true story of America’s founding and transmitting faith across generations
• The threats to America’s economic stability and liberty—from within and without
• The urgent need for spiritual renewal, repentance, and reformation over revolution

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DETAILED SUMMARY AND INSIGHTS

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I. Opening Reflections & Context

Host: Ryan Helfenbein
“Four years ago this week, the Supreme Court handed down Dobbs versus Jackson and sent the question of life back to the states and the people. But that ground didn’t stay won on its own…250 years later. The lesson hasn’t changed. Freedom isn’t kept by accident, and neither is faithfulness.” (02:41)

• Helfenbein grounds the episode in the parallels between the nation’s current moment and its revolutionary past, especially the ongoing fights for “life”—referencing the Dobbs decision and the Declaration of Independence.
• He asserts the continuing relevance of the nation’s spiritual heritage, citing Psalm 33:12 as enduring guidance.
• “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people he has chosen as his inheritance. That was the standard in 1776. It's still the standard today.” (03:32)

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II. The Pro-Life Movement After Dobbs

Guest: Seth Gruber, Founder of White Rose Resistance
Key Segment: 05:00 – 15:59

Why Are Men Absent in the Pro-Life Cause?

• Helfenbein asks why men have been sidelined and challenges the narrative that pro-life activism is only for women.
• Gruber responds:
  • The prevalence of pornography has left many men morally compromised and incapable of defending truth publicly.

    “You can’t tear down the high places of a culture when you’ve erected them in your own living room... Porn is a weapon, and it's the best way to castrate the next generation of men.” (06:38)

  • Feminist messaging has also shamed men out of the public square:

    “We've been telling men they suck for so long and to shut up. And now they finally have.” (07:00)

  • Proposes that defending the vulnerable, including the unborn, should be a primary responsibility of men—spiritually, socially, and politically.

The State of Abortion in America (Post-Dobbs)

• Despite legislative wins, chemical abortion has surged and laws often lack enforcability.

  “It is legal to kill a baby in all 50 states in America...” (11:32)

• Legal loopholes, especially blanket legal immunity for mothers self-administering abortion pills (which make up over 60% of abortions), mean laws often have little effect.
  • Illustrates this by referencing testimonies from post-abortive women confronted by the prospect of penalties:

    “Every post-abortive woman I've ever asked has said, ‘Oh my gosh, no, I would not have gotten an abortion if it was a crime at the time.’” (12:53)

• Gruber outlines the White Rose Resistance's recent push for “equal protection” laws—policies that would hold all involved in abortion (including mothers, in some cases) legally accountable.

  “We’re trying to unify the movement…around a return to the pro-life movement’s first principles—which is just to say, we don’t want to throw women in jail, but yes, if you kill your baby, there should be consequences.” (14:22)

• Names supporters of this stance: Jack Hibbs, Eric Metaxas, Riley Gaines, etc.

Notable Moments:

• Gruber’s vivid linking of Old Testament pagan practices—child sacrifice to Moloch—with present-day abortion and sexual culture.

  “The two pagan idols you see throughout the Old Testament—Ashtoreth, Moloch, baal, baby killing, sex cult worship—those two sins have been linked since time immemorial. They are connected today.” (08:10)

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III. Rediscovering America’s Biblical Foundations

Guest: Timothy Barton, President of WallBuilders
Key Segment: 21:19 – 32:34

America's Forgotten Faith and Founding

• Barton laments the secularization of American history in public education and urges a return to understanding the miracles and deep faith of the Founders.
• Cites Franklin’s call to prayer at the Constitutional Convention (06/28/1787) and the centrality of prayer and faith at the origins of the nation.

  “The very first time the Founding Fathers met…their first motion was that we would open with prayer.” (23:15)

The True Sources of the Founders’ Ideas

• Barton references a comprehensive academic survey:

  “The number one cited source [by the Founders] was the Bible. 34% of everything in quotation marks was from the Bible.” (27:11)

• Enlightenment thinkers cited by the Founders (Montesquieu, Blackstone, Locke) were men of faith, not pure secularists.
• Encourages American families to reclaim this heritage and have honest, bold conversations with the next generation.

Notable Quotes:

• “The only reason America ever came into existence was because literally there were Christian men who, relying on God, actively walking out their faith, did things to enable America to become the most free, stable, prosperous nation in the world.” (25:40)
• “I think there are young people hungry, searching for truth. And honestly, they don't want to live in a victim culture. They want something to celebrate.” (31:34)

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IV. The Spiritually Rooted Role of Men and Pastors in America’s Renewal

Guest: Josh McPherson, Lead Pastor of Grace City Church
Key Segment: 38:08 – 48:16

Reclaiming the Church’s Moral Leadership

• Helfenbein and McPherson discuss the historic pulpit’s role in forging the nation’s conscience and the waning of this influence in recent generations.

• McPherson identifies the crisis:

  • “Lack of public theology,”
  • Seeker-sensitive churches prioritizing not offending nonbelievers over speaking the truth,
  • The church abandoning its traditional role as the nation's “moral conscience”.

• Argues for reformation, not revolution:

  “Our work now is reformation, reclaiming that which we’ve abandoned, rebuilding the walls of old, as Nehemiah did.” (41:40)

• Cites evidence of a “third Great Awakening”—or at least hope for one—in the stirrings among men and pastors who want to reclaim bold, faithful leadership despite cultural opposition:

  “We're seeing pastors, men…waking up to the reality that we are a Christian nation, that God’s grace is upon us in this moment, and it’s time for men to unapologetically stand up and proclaim clearly the truths that our nation were built on.” (43:04)

Spiritual Renewal vs Idolatry of Evangelism

• Both agree the church erred by placing the method (“evangelism”) over the truth itself—watering down the message for acceptance at the cost of discipleship and repentance.

• McPherson:

  “Idolatry is something good that's made ultimate and now it's bad…You always know something is an idol if you're willing to sacrifice truth in order to preserve it.” (47:20)

• On judgment, conviction, and the necessity of repentance:

  “Sinners in the hands of an angry God was a sermon that sparked…the spiritual revival and awakening…And that was not making people feel good about their status.” (46:08)

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V. Economic Liberty & Perils Facing Modern America

Guest: Kevin Freeman, Economic War Room, Pirate Money Radio
Key Segment: 54:07 – 61:36

The Economic and Ideological Crossroads

• Freeman warns that economic freedom—anchored in Biblical principles and sound money—is just as essential as political freedom.
  • Outlines pressing threats:
    • Rising national debt
    • Dollar under attack
    • Central Bank Digital Currencies and a growing wealth gap
    • Demographic crisis and border “invasion”
• Links the rise of socialism and public appetite for government largesse to the historic warning that democracies fail after 250 years (“we’re at a stark fork in the road”).

  “Democracies end when people learn they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury…They always end in about 250 years. So we're at a stark fork in the road.” (57:49)

Goodness, Power, and National Character

• Helfenbein:

  “It's not that America ceases to exist. It's that America ceases to be good…America could still be powerful, influential, and up to their eyeballs in debt and cease to be good and a force for good in the world.” (59:03)

• Freeman warns:

  “If America does not stay on a righteous path, God help us all. Now, the power of God can overcome all of that…but America has been the source of goodness in this world...in terms of liberty and the opportunity to hear the gospel.” (59:58)

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VI. Closing Challenge and Historical Reflection

Host: Ryan Helfenbein
Key Segment: 63:16 – 65:19

• Helfenbein recounts Franklin’s call to prayer during a deadlocked Constitutional Convention, highlighting faith amidst uncertainty.
• Final exhortation:

  “Here's my challenge this week. In whatever deadlock you're facing…don't wait for certainty. Just act faithfully. Franklin didn't know the Constitution would hold. He acted anyway and he prayed anyway…May God grant you the same confidence that Franklin had that he still governs in the affairs of men.” (63:50)

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MEMORABLE QUOTES

• Seth Gruber (on men and culture):
  “You can't tear down the high places of a culture when you've erected them in your own living room.” (06:38)

• Timothy Barton (on founding sources):
  “The number one cited source was the Bible, and 34% of everything they found in quotation marks in the founders’ writings was from the Bible.” (27:11)

• Josh McPherson (on the church and awakening):
  “Our work now is not revolution...Our work now is reformation, reclaiming that which we've abandoned, rebuilding the walls of old, as Nehemiah did.” (41:40)

• Kevin Freeman (on America’s future):
  “You can choose a Republican path that believes in free markets...which is literally a biblical path. Choose the Bible path. I lay before you a blessing and a curse, life and death. Choose wisely.” (58:37)

• Ryan Helfenbein (episode conclusion):
  “Franklin didn't know the Constitution would hold. He acted anyway and he prayed anyway. Until next time, may God grant you the same confidence that Franklin had—that he still governs in the affairs of men.” (63:50)

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TIMESTAMPS

• [02:41] – Opening monologue and Biblical context
• [05:00 – 15:59] – Interview with Seth Gruber on the pro-life movement post-Dobbs
• [21:19 – 32:34] – Interview with Timothy Barton on America’s Biblical and historical roots
• [38:08 – 48:16] – Interview with Josh McPherson on masculinity and church renewal
• [54:07 – 61:36] – Interview with Kevin Freeman on economic threats and America’s path forward
• [63:16 – 65:19] – Closing historical reflection and final challenge

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KEY INSIGHTS & TAKEAWAYS

• America is at another “hinge point” in its history; remembering and reclaiming the nation’s Biblical and moral roots is urgent and necessary.
• Both public virtue and private character are under serious assault—especially through diminished male leadership and cultural confusion.
• Laws and policy victories are insufficient without spiritual and moral conviction; enforcement and the maintenance of a moral culture require courage and clarity.
• The “true story” of America is fundamentally a spiritual one. Telling that story—boldly and honestly—to the next generation is essential.
• Economic liberty, properly understood, is inseparable from spiritual and political liberty; present trends threaten not only prosperity but the soul of the nation.
• Faithful action, not certainty, is required of American believers and patriots—just as it was in 1776.

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For listeners seeking the heart of Real America’s Voice, this episode advances a consistent, determined message: America’s hope rests not in comfort or neutrality, but in the courage to act on conviction, tell the truth, and trust that “God still governs in the affairs of men.”

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Transcript

[Ryan Helfenbein]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Guaranteed Human Hi, it's Karen in Georgia from My favorite Murder.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

She starts dating Howard Hughes and in fact she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Jean King, presented by The Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

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Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full [e-mail] on

[Newt Gingrich]

new TRO podcast we're celebrating America's 250th birthday and I asked my guests how they're spending their 4th of July.

[Brett Baer]

Brett Baer I will be working. I'll be in Washington cause it's a big, big day.

[Jared Isaacman]

Jared Isaacman I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

Listen to Newts world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe. Get Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy

[Kevin Freeman]

modern world about something about a comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Jared Isaacman]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

As America marks its 250th anniversary, we're looking back at two and a half centuries of rebellion and liberty through the eyes of the heroes who defended it.

[Seth Gruber]

The whole thing about this country is freedom. If we're not careful, we could lose that.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Stories of Courage, we bring you the defining moments of valor that went above and beyond the call of duty. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

It's Sunday, June 28, 2026. Welcome to Real America's Voice News. This is Sunday the Road Forward. Four years ago this week, the Supreme Court handed down Dobbs versus Jackson and sent the question of life back to the states and the people. But that ground didn't stay won on its own. It took lawyers, pastors, historians, and ordinary believers who refused to retreat. That's the story behind today's conversations. Ground taken and ground that has to be defended again and again. And we're just days away from the 250th anniversary of the moment. Our founders took the same kind of ground for themselves, declaring against every reasonable expectation that a free people under God could govern themselves. 250 years later. The lesson hasn't changed. Freedom isn't kept by accident, and neither is faithfulness. Our scripture reading today comes From Psalm chapter 33, verse 12. Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people he has chosen as his inheritance. That was the standard in 1776. It's still the standard today. As always, we want to be an encouragement to our viewers and our listeners to hold fast to the unchanging Word of God, no matter what battlefield we find ourselves on. I'm Ryan Helfenbein. I'm filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton and I'll be your host today. Out of the darkness to your glorious

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

day

[Brett Baer]

you call my name and I

[Timothy Barton]

went out of thy dream

[Ryan Helfenbein]

out of the darkness to your glorious day.

[Brett Baer]

For more encouragement and to stay connected,

[Dr. Tim Clinton]

follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X. We love being a part of your life.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Joining me now is Seth Gruber. Seth is a Christian pro life advocate, author, and speaker. He's the founder of the White Rose Resistance, which is one of the fastest growing pro life groups in America. He's also the producer of the widely acclaimed 1916 project and the author of the Last Stand. Christ or Chaos? A War for the West. Seth, thank you for joining us always

[Seth Gruber]

with Ryan, one of the best kept secrets in the conservative movement. Your mind's like a steel trap. We got to learn how to get that. Just slaying demons in the public square. Good to be with you, bro.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Brother. Honored as always. And I'm so grateful for you and all that you're doing. One of the things that White Rose Resistance has done an incredible job of, of course, is pointing all the way back to the origin stories of Planned Parenthood and eugenics and what was really transpiring in the early 1900s. You've done that extraordinarily well. Margaret Sanger. You think about the Nazification of America under Planned Parenthood, but then even more recently, last stand. I mean, you are. This is a rallying cry for men, I think, to stand up. I think the pro life movement has, has largely seen men in absentia because they've been pushed out of the movement. Right. Men don't get to speak about, you know, the womb. Men don't get to know uterus.

[Seth Gruber]

No opinion.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

No opinion. But brother, you are, you are reasserting the moral authority in the high ground there, and men do need to speak up. What I just. First leading question, why have men been largely absent from this movement, the pro life movement?

[Seth Gruber]

Well, I mean, there's a lot of ways to answer that question. And you know, for your listeners who listen to you, I'm sure they're, they know that you and I could talk for hours about that. But the short answer would be they're watching too much porn, so they're morally compromised. And you can't tear down the high places of a culture when you've erected them in your own living room. Um, we're dealing with the most porn addicted generation generations in, in world history. And so it's what Augustine called libido dominandi in the city of God. It's sort of like the, the sexualization of politics and the politic. Politicization of sex. It's sexual liberation used as a political control. Porn is a weapon, and it's the best way to castrate the next generation of men whose moral strength has been wasted on naked ladies and orgiastic delights. Kind of like Samson, that when the war's raging and the strong man is needed to go to the front, he was too distracted with his sexual appetites to provide a meaningful defense against evil. That's one of the answers as to why men are missing. The second is because feminists have said you suck. And we've been telling men they suck for so long and to shut up. And now they finally have. And so we're dealing more with a matriarchy, I would say now, than a patriarchy. And so the pro life movement has largely been led by women. And of course, I think women should be fighting abortion. I think children should be fighting abortion. I Think men and families should be fighting abortion. But call me crazy, I think that the bloody warfare, declaration of battle against Moloch, that ancient child sacrifice demon, call me crazy, I think that should be led primarily by men who are called to be defenders and protectors.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why?

[Seth Gruber]

It's the same reason that when Eve, he eats the apple. It's not like God went full feminist, Ryan. It's not like he was like, you can be excused for your sins. No, he wasn't excusing her for her sins, but what did he do? Where are you, Adam? Right, and calls up the dude. Why? Because he abdicated his role. Standing right next to her, watching her sin and listening to a serpent so we could talk about this for a long time. Those are some of the reasons that men have been absent. And you know what? It was young men who built this country. And I think it's going to be young men who saved this country. And it's going to happen first and foremost when we end the baby killing in the sex cult worship. The two, two, the two pagan idols you see throughout the Old Testament. Ashtara, Ashtoreth, Moloch, baal, baby killing, sex cult worship. Those two sins have been linked since time immemorial. And we're trying to see the help the church see how those have always been connected. They are connected today. And it's our role as the church, primarily as men to tear down the high places and give God a reason to show America mercy.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

You know, I like the, the imagery of Samson because I'm also reminded, filled with the Holy Spirit blinded, you know, his wounds and transgressions on full display. And yet at the very end, right, he, he succumbed to the Lord's will. He was redeemed and brought about the judgment of God. Right. And, and, and one of the most mighty displays of power. But that's where men need to recognize a role. Here we are four years anniversary of the Dobbs decision that came down Dobbs versus Jackson back in 2022. And here we are in this moment. More abortions happening today, Seth, than at any other time documented in our history, largely because of chemical abortion, mifepristone, what needs to take place in order to end this? When you, when you consider places like Texas and Florida that clearly have binding laws against abortion clinics are being closed and yet more abortions are happening. What needs to happen?

[Seth Gruber]

Yeah, so let's keep it really basic, okay. For decades, Ryan, people said, I'm pro life. And we say, okay, what does that mean? Oh, the baby has a right to life. And we go, yeah, amen. Okay, so what does it mean to have a right to life? Well, it means that this government institute among. Among men recognizes and protects those rights. So we can agree that we all have a metaphysical right to life, like a philosophical right to life. Ryan, you and all your listeners, we can all agree right now, we. We have a philosophical right to life. What does that practically look like, that the state actually protects that right. If the state doesn't protect your right to life, then it might be a metaphysical, philosophical concept. Hey, Ryan Helfenbein has a right to life. But if someone were to kill you, Ryan, and then the state did nothing about it, well, then you. Politically, you don't really have a right to life, do you? If the state is not saying, if you kill innocent human beings, there's consequences. If you rob a bank, there's consequences. You know, if you like grand theft, if you like grand theft auto, there's consequences. If we're not saying there's consequences and following through on that, then that right is only ethereal. It doesn't actually exist in the political realm in the real world.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Right.

[Seth Gruber]

And so this is a hard word for your listeners to hear, but let me be very clear. A lot of people will say this is not true because they just aren't in the inside baseball of political statecraft in the pro life movement. It is legal to kill a baby in all 50 states in America.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

My gosh.

[Seth Gruber]

But what are you talking about? Roe v. Wade got overturned. How could you say that, Seth, on Dr. Tim Clinton's program? You need to repent. No, no, no, no, no, no. Every red state that has passed pro life laws after the overturning of Roe, which sent it back to the states, have written in wholesale immunity exemptions for the aborting mother. And because over 60% of the nation's abortions every 12 months, Ryan, are the abortion pill, then the mother is the only abortionist in that case, and that gets shipped to her mailbox, and she takes it. There's no abortion. She is the abortionist. There's no one else involved. Now, if a surgical abortionist were to open his old abortion mill in Dallas, Texas, and perform a surgical abortion, he would go to jail for years. But if the mother orders it online, she takes it herself. She doesn't even pay a fine. She faces zero legal consequences for intentionally killing her baby. So the abortion is against the law on paper in the most Republican red states in the country, Ryan. But thanks to the Rhino Republicans, and I'm sorry, to say this often at the behest of some very large pro life organizations in the country, insisting that there's a wholesale immunity clause in the pro life legislation that legally shields the aborting mother from any consequences whatsoever. Now, this isn't about hating mothers, okay? I don't want to throw women in jail. Mothers in jail, right? I don't want to do that. I don't want to see a bunch of mothers in jail. But I believe this crazy thing watches. Watch this. Most people obey the law when they're. When there's a deterrent and a threat of prosecution, most people go, well, I kind of don't want to go to jail. And so most women will obey the law. And how do I know this? Because I've asked dozens of post abortion, healed Christian pro life speaker gals, hey, hey, sister in Christ, would you have gotten an abortion if when you did, it was a crime and you knew it? And every single post abortive woman I've ever asked that question to, Ryan, has said, oh my gosh, no, I would not have gotten an abortion if it was a crime at the time that I did. I'm like, then you just proved my point. The law is functioning in a compassionate way to protect the youngest and the vulnerable, the preborn child. And you're saying that if that law existed at that time, you, your kid would be here right now. You would not have killed your baby. So that's the current state of affairs. That's why abortions have risen so much, because you can just order the deadly pills online. So at White Rose Resistance, we just dropped our equal protection statement covered by the New York Times, by the way, on Wednesday, June 24, someone leaked it to them and they're all freaking out and they think this is fringe and radical. It's not. It's a return to the pro life movement's first principles, which is to simply say, that whole baby we talked about when we said they had a right to life, we actually meant it. We actually meant when we said they had a right to life. And politically, you don't have a right to life if the state doesn't give consequences to those who abuse or take your right to life by killing you. And so we're trying to unify the movement, the conservative movement, the pro life movement in the church, Ryan, around a return to the pro life movement's first principles, which is just to say, we don't wanna throw women in jail. But yes, if you kill your baby, there should be consequences. Otherwise, we're incentivizing people to continue killing their babies. You cannot dismantle a death cult by legitimizing the very laws that created that death cult. And this equal protection statement, Ryan, has been signed by Jack Hibbs, Nick Vujicic, Eric Metaxas, Ali Bestucky, Alex Clark, Alisa Childers, Frank Turek, Riley Gaines, Dr. George Grant, Pastor Rob Pacienza, Shane Winnings of Promise Keepers. I mean, the list just goes on and on and on. Some of the most influential Christian voices in the movement are saying, duh, Seth, and White Rose resistance is correct. We're not going to end abortion when the law says there's an entire group of people who can legally kill their babies. The aborting mother.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Yeah, very well said. I would just add to this that we saw the endorsement even last year from Clint Presley, who was the sb, SBC president at the time.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Of the Southern Baptist Convention in full support of an equal protection law passing in Tennessee. And I also know Matt Walsh made

[Seth Gruber]

a public defense of equal protection in Tennessee. So when they say this is fringe, they're lying.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

That's exactly right. Well, brother, thank you so much for joining Sunday, the Road Forward. And thank you for being a prophet in our time. Your voice is so desperately needed. God bless you.

[Seth Gruber]

Thank you, brother.

[Dr. Tim Clinton]

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[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

it's Karen and Georgia from my favorite Murder.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ionic 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Hetty she starts dating Howard Hughes, the aviation tycoon. Do you know a lot about him?

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

I mean, I watch the Aviator so I know everything Leonardo DiCaprio has allowed me to know about him. But incredible innovator, right?

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

She says he's a, quote, very strange man. But they do get along really well.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Give us examples.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

I know they do get along intellectually and in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. She takes a look at what he's designed. It's got these square wings and she's like, that doesn't make sense. And so she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of like what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] Shop the Sherwin Williams 4th of July sale and get 30% off paints and stains. June 26th through July 6th. Whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior, we've got the colors to bring your vision to life. And with delivery, getting everything to your door is easier than ever. Shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood Sherwin Williams store. Click the banner to Learn more Retail sales only some exclusions apply. See Store for details. Delivery available on qualifying orders.

[Newt Gingrich]

This is Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast Newts World with 15 special episodes. And I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Brett Baer]

I will be working because it's a big, big day. I'll be in Washington and have all kinds of coverage through the day of

[Newt Gingrich]

America250 Rachel campus Duffy there's nothing like American music.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

We're the home of rock and roll. We're the home of rap. We're the home of pop music.

[Newt Gingrich]

Eric Metaxas Jared Isaacman I plan to

[Jared Isaacman]

be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors, along with four other fighter jets flying over the

[Newt Gingrich]

nation's capital, the story of the national anthem and the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Join me and let's celebrate America's 250. Listen to Newts World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you did your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Timothy Barton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Kevin Freeman]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes. Listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, app podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Joining me now is Timothy Barton. He is the president of Wall Builders and national pro family organization founded to help people discover the true story of America and its Biblical foundation. Drawing on one of the largest collections of original founding era documents in our nation. He co hosts the Wall Builder show and hosts the One Room Schoolhouse and is a frequent guest on the Glenn Beck and Ben Shapiro podcasts. And he's also the co author of Lives, Fortunes and Sacred Honor the Signers of the declaration, [e-mail] or anywhere else. Books are sold. Tim, welcome. Great to see you.

[Timothy Barton]

Ryan man, thanks for having me on. Great to be with you.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Hey, I. I think it's so important. Here it is Sunday, June 28, last Sunday before July 4. Many Americans are going to be celebrating the 250 years of our country and I want to Be honest with you, Tim. I think many Americans, many Christians, don't know our own founding. We got to be honest about that. Right. May not have had a great education or might have had a standard education, which honestly was kind of steeped in secularism and a lot less in sort of the miracles of America, the faith of America, just more matter of fact kind of thing. Tell us this. What is it that we're missing when it comes. And I don't want to miss this. What are we missing when it comes to our founding?

[Timothy Barton]

Yeah, I mean, Ryan, I think you're right. There's a lot of people that either had a secular education or a lot of people paid attention and they might have gotten A's in their history classes and still don't know so much of the story. And it's because a lot of what's been in the textbooks and curriculum has not covered the story. As an easy example, you mentioned today's June 28th. Well, you actually can look up Benjamin Franklin gave his most arguably famous speech he ever gave on June 28, 1787, during the Constitutional Convention. And this is where the Constitutional Convention, as they're trying to write the new document, it's falling apart. Benjamin Franklin, who today we kind of all agree he was the least religious. Founding father Benjamin Franklin saw the convention falling apart after four and a half weeks of disagreement, of frustrations. And he stands up, the oldest guy in the room, and he says, I have a suggestion of how we can overcome these problems. And then he goes on giving this brilliant speech about how they need to turn to God and spend more time in prayer. He talks about, they were in Independence Hall. It's where they're writing the Constitution. Eleven years earlier, they wrote the Declaration. He says, when we were in the middle of the war with Great Britain, we met every day in this room and we had daily prayer for divine protection. He said, our prayers were heard. They're graciously answered. He goes on through this incredibly long speech, but it's all about challenging the men in the room that if we don't have God helping us in what we do, we will never succeed. And, Ryan, that's the least religious Founding Father. Now, I know you know this, but the point is most Americans don't. And most Americans know the name Benjamin Franklin. But even on a day like today, June 28th, this is the anniversary of his really famous speech. It's the reason my dad and I wrote the book Life's Fortunes, a sacred honor. It was to reintroduce Americans to people that maybe you know some of their names. I guarantee you, you don't know very much of their story. And even Ryan, as we walk through, like, how does their story begin? The very first time the Founding Fathers ever met was September 6, 1774. John Adams wrote Abigail, and he said, the first motion at our first meeting was made by Mr. Thomas Cushing in Massachusetts. And his motion was that we would open with prayer. And John Adams tells that they discussed it, like, who were they going to bring in? They finally agreed to bring the local pastor, the Reverend Jacob Duche. He shows up the next morning. The most famous painting from the First Continental Congress is a painting of them in prayer. Because when the Reverend Jacob Duche showed up September 7, 1774 and leads them in prayer, it turns into this incredible prayer meeting. And actually arguably this thing goes anywhere from like an hour, hour and a half, all the way up to two hours, given all of the content they did. And this is literally in the records of Congress, this is in the journals of the guys who were there, Silas Dean, one of the delegates, he said that as, as the Reverend Jacob Boucher led us in prayer, he read all these books of, of prayer that were in the Book of Common Prayer, an Anglican prayer book. He said he read all these formal prayers, but then he broke out an extemporaneous prayer for at least 10 minutes. And as he was praying, even the Quakers began to have tears running down their cheek because God was moving so mightily in their midst. And I say this because literally the way our nation began was a group of men coming together and saying, if God's not part of this, then we're wasting our time. And Ryan, we would look today as Christians in America and say we think God really needs to be part of the story. But there's a lot of Americans, even good hearted Christians, who don't see the same importance or connection because they don't understand. The only reason America ever came into existence was because literally there were Christian men who, relying on God, actively walking out their faith, they did things to enable America to become the most free, stable, prosperous nation in the world. But literally it was built and birthed on the principles of Christianity. And I think most Americans don't know that today.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

You know, I think most Americans, they look back and they were probably told it was based on Enlightenment thinking, it was Voltaire, it was Montesquieu, is, you know, Locke or even, you know, Thomas Paine, a contemporary, you know, common sense. But all of these were based on sort of secular ideas or secular principles. Or even deism. This idea that God is present, you know, he exists, but he's largely absent from the human affairs, the affairs of men. Why is that so ridiculous? And you had mentioned Benjamin Franklin, but why is that so ridiculous?

[Timothy Barton]

Well, it's ridiculous because we're asserting a lot of things, that it's conjecture, that there's actually not evidence to support a lot of those ideas. And why I say that there is a really good book called the Origins of American Constitutionalism done by a group of professors led by Professor Donald Lutz from the University of Houston. He did a study back in the 1970s and 1980s. It took him actually nearly 20 years to do this study. And the book that came out, I think, was 1988. When it came out, it was considered the most scholarly review of the origins of American thought and idea. His goal in doing this, and again, the book is called the Origins of American Constitutionalism. His goal was recognizing that America has had the longest lasting ongoing constitutional republic in the history of the world. No nation has had a governing document last longer than the U.S. constitution. They thought, where did the Founding Fathers get their idea? So he said, well, let's go back and review their writings. And if we read their writings, whenever we find quotation marks around something, let's look up what they're quoting, let's chart it, and we'll see who are they quoting the most, what sources are they quoting the most. And if we know who they're quoting the most, we'll have an idea what's influencing them the most. And then we'll get an idea of really, where did these thoughts and ideas come from? What motivated them? This was the project again, it took them nearly 20 years to do it. They in the midst of going through the founder's writings, initially he said, let's go through 15,000. They ended up narrowing the scope to about a thousand, but they found 3,154 quotes. They looked up all of those quotes, tracking them back to the original source, and what they discovered was that the number one cited individual was a guy named Charles Montesquieu, who did the Spirit of the Laws. The second most cited was William Blackstone. The third most cited was John Locke. And then it goes down from there. Now, Charles Montesquieu was cited 8.3% of the time, William Blackstone 7.9% of time, John Locke 2.9%. And again, it goes down from there. But the number one cited source was not an individual. The number one cited source was the Bible, and 34% of everything they found in quotation marks in the founder's writings was from the Bible. That's number one. Number two, the professor who led the study, Donald Lutz, he said that we only included in the study what was in quotation marks because you have to have clearly defined parameters to do an academic research project. He said, but as we were reading their writings, we found so many obvious references to scripture not in quotation marks. Had we included all the obvious references, the number would have been far higher than 34%. In fact, as someone who reads a lot of the founders writings, the majority of the time the founding fathers quote the Bible, it's not in quotation marks. So the number honestly is well over 40, probably over 50%. But even then, if people are like, well, okay, that's one thing, the Bible, but then you do have Enlightenment thinkers like Montesquieu, like Blackstone and Locke. And the other point I would make is that the most cited Enlightenment thinkers were not the secular ones. Charles Montesquieu was not secular. He was Catholic. William Blackstone, not secular. He was Anglican. John Locke, not secular. All of these guys that today we look back and they're like the Enlightenment thinkers. There were secular Enlightenment thinkers, but there were other Enlightenment thinkers who believed in God, who believed in the Bible. And so not only do the founders quote the Bible more than anything else, and it's not even close, they also reference these Enlightenment thinkers, the next highest, and guys who actually were people of faith. So it's totally different than what we think or understand today.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Tim, that was so well said. And let me just say this. As we wrap, I just think about transmitting the faith and the founding to the next generation. You're about to actually go speak to some young school age students for grandparents, parents that are out there. They're looking at this July 4th as an opportunity to remember and to recall and to go back. How do you transmit that to the youngest generation?

[Timothy Barton]

I would say one thing is to have honest conversations. Right now, what we are seeing is young people are hungry for truth. They're skeptical of so much of what they hear. And honestly, they don't know what to believe and who to believe. And I think as parents, it's time that we have bold, honest conversations about the foundations of our own life that we talk about. And hopefully if you are a person of faith, that you strengthen that inside of you. If you're not, I encourage you. You really need to explore that. I really believe there's a real God who sent his real son, Jesus to die for the real you. And if you have really given your life, he'll change it forever.

[J.R. Martinez]

Right?

[Timothy Barton]

Like, I think this is a real thing and I think there are young people hungry, searching for truth. And honestly, they don't want to live in a victim culture. They want something to celebrate. And they're looking for reasons of why they should celebrate of what has happened in America, the good things that have come from America and honestly what God did in America so many times along the way. So if people are looking for more information, obviously I would encourage go to wallbuilders.com of course. Ryan, you have done so much to tell these stories and tell people rediscover some of this foundation as well. But I would say for parents and grandparents that this is a strategic time. Start looking to equip yourself, have honest conversations because I think this is a prime opportunity to help equip our kids and draw them back to the true foundation of this nation.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Amen. So well said. Tim Barton, president of Wall Builders and co author of Lives Fortunes in Sacred Honor. Go to wallbuilders.com to find out more about that. And God bless you. Thank you for joining Sunday, the Road Forward. Great to see you.

[Timothy Barton]

Thanks, Ryan.

[Seth Gruber]

Good to see you.

[Brett Baer]

I'm Dr. Tim Murphy, a clinical psychologist and former commander in the U.S. navy Medical Service Corps. This year marks 250 years of American freedom bought by men and women willing to sacrifice everything military service teaches resilience, teamwork, and a principle that never leaves you. No one gets left behind. But too many veterans come home to invisible wounds, traumatic memories, depression, moral injury, the loss of purpose. Since 2001, more than 150,000 veterans have died by suicide. Did you know that? Now some needed clinical care, but a lot of them just needed someone willing to show up and listen. That's where mental health coaches step in. The American association of Christian Counselors and light University offer two certifications built for this moment. A 24 session mental health Coach certification for those called to serve, veterans, military families and first responders. And our Human Flourishing coaching certification for those wanting to walk alongside people towards wholeness. Both are available for just a $46 support fee. You asked what you could do for veterans. Here's your answer. Leave no veteran behind.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from my favorite Murder.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamarr.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Hetty. She starts dating Howard Hughes, the aviation tycoon. Do you know a lot about him.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

I mean, I watch the Aviator so I know everything Leonardo DiCaprio has allowed me to know about him. But incredible innovator, right?

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

She says he's a, quote, very strange man. But they do get along really well.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Give us examples.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

I know they do get along intellectually. And in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. She takes a look at what he's designed. It's got these square wings and she's like, that doesn't make sense. And so she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of like what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamarr and Billie

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Jean King, presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this is Newt Gingrich,

[Newt Gingrich]

former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast, Newt's World, with 15 special episodes. And I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Brett Baer]

I will be working because it's a big, big day. I'll be in Washington and have all kinds of coverage through the day of America 250.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Rachel Campos Duffy there's nothing like American music. We're the home of rock and roll. We're the home of rap. We're the home of pop music.

[Newt Gingrich]

Eric Metaxas, Jared Isaacman.

[Jared Isaacman]

I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors, along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital, the story

[Newt Gingrich]

of the national anthem and the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Join me and let's celebrate America's 250. Listen to Newts World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you did your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Timothy Barton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy

[Kevin Freeman]

modern world about something, about a comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Jared Isaacman]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong. You get it on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

2026 marks the 250th anniversary of America. The soul of this country is found in the stories of those who defended it. I'm J.R. martinez, a U.S. army veteran. I know that true valor isn't just a word.

[Dr. Tim Clinton]

It's a.

[J.R. Martinez]

A choice made in a split second. That's why I'm honored to bring you a brand new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. You'll fly into the heart of a rescue mission with Air Force pilot James Fleming in Vietnam.

[Seth Gruber]

I'm gonna put you out in the middle of hell. If you have to come home, I'll bring you home. That's my duty. It's my honor.

[J.R. Martinez]

We'll also travel Back to night 1926 to witness Richard Byrd's historic flight over the North Pole. These are more than just stories of combat. They are testaments to leadership, community, and the human spirit. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Joining us now is Josh McPherson. He is the lead pastor of Grace City Church in Wenatchee, Washington, and founder of Stronger Man Nation, a ministry focused on calling men into bold biblical leadership. He recently hosted Freedom Con 26 Rise of the Statesman, a first of its kind men's gathering at the George Amphitheater in George Washington, drawing thousands of men from across the state and the country. Josh, thank you for joining us. Great to see you.

[Josh McPherson]

Very happy to be here. Ryan, thanks for inviting me.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

You know, it's the last Sunday before July 4th, and we're, we're really celebrating America and we want to kick it up into high gear. And I, I think it's one of those things. How fitting it is that the pulpit forged the nation. It's the pulpit. It's the. This is where the American conscience was formed. It was formed by faith and, and a kind of Christian morality. The, the one that is largely missing today. Pastors were a huge part of our founding, whether it be Jonathan Edwards or George Whitfield or John and Charles Wesley or Gilbert Tenet or Samuel Davies. You can go down a list of, number of names, you know, of all of these men of God who were faithful, who stood up in their pulpits, who proclaimed the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and who also believed in the principles of liberty. I mean, they had political sermons, these were politically charged sermons. Many of these sermons called out King George iii. They called out tyranny, they called out the seeds of what they called slavery, this idea that Parliament would pass laws without any representation. And no, our founding was not perfect. That's not our consensus here that it was perfect. That's not our thesis. But it was extraordinary. It was exceptional in so much as no other founding was quite like it. And Here we are 250 years later, celebrating this same nation that is only by the grace of God. We have an extraordinary God, we have a normal people, but an extraordinary God. And so, Josh, you're a pastor, you're claiming territory there in Washington State, very blue. But you know, here you are calling men back to faith, calling men to repentance, calling men to stand up and to be bold. Why is that so needed right now?

[Josh McPherson]

Well, you hit on a lot of stuff there, Ryan, that I'll, that I agree with and affirm wholeheartedly. I think we are at a inflection point in our nation. We saw that happen at the birth of our nation 250 years ago. We saw that with the Civil War, and I think we're coming into it again. And what we see before those two historic moments of the birthing of our nation and the Civil War in the doing away of slavery, preceding those historic moments in our nation was spiritual awakenings. And I believe that we could potentially be in the middle of a third Great Awakening right now. What's unique about those awakenings is they weren't necessarily one event or a two or three week window of time. They covered decades, 10, 20, 30, 40, 60 years in the first great awakening. And there were people that were born and died inside the Awakening and didn't know it. And one of the marks of the Great Awakening is many didn't know they were in the middle of it until history looked back and saw what God was doing. And I believe we could be in that kind of moment again where God is stirring something unique. And there seems to be, and this is just my observation, it could be wrong. There seems to be a lack of public theology, intelligence in relationship to seeing the lordship of Christ over all of life. There's kind of been this play, the enemy's run I think in Positive World, with the seeker sensitive movement, that everything has to be geared toward the unbeliever. And so the center of the church, the purpose of the church becomes, you know, making it unoffensible for the unbeliever. And I think when that happens, something's lost. The glory of God, the fear of God. And in evangelism, in some circles, this may be controversial, but as I've been reflecting, I was having a conversation with Eric Metaxas a couple days ago thinking about how evangelism has become, and in his words, idolatry in the sense that it's the one thing we sacrifice truth for to worship. And it was interesting to think about that definition. When we think about how watered down the message of the gospel has gotten in the church where we're afraid to offend anyone, and the excuse always is used, well, we don't get political because that might push my neighbor away or that might make it hard for someone to come to Jesus. And so in the name of putting the unbeliever at the center of the purpose of the church, we've stepped back from our role of being the country's moral conscience, and we're not better for it. And so I think there's a move of God among leaders, pastors, young men in particular, of saying, hey, we're fed up of. We're fed up with not proclaiming, standing in and celebrating the truth of God that was in the foundation of our nation, that birthed our nation. And so I told our men this weekend, the work we have before us is not revolution. Revolution would be needed if our founding documents were godless, if our founding constitution was built on a pagan framework, and if it needed to be overthrown and replaced, well, thanks be to God, better men before us already did that work. And we called it the revolution, the war of independence. Our work now is not to overthrow what we have, because what we have, I think, is very good. Our work now is reformation, reclaiming that which we've abandoned, rebuilding the walls of old, as Nehemiah did. And so it's an exciting time. And we're seeing pastors, men, 5,000 men and pastors of this last weekend, waking up to the reality that we are a Christian nation, that God's grace is upon us in this moment, and it's time for men to unapologetically stand up and proclaim clearly the truths that our nation were built on.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

You know, I love how you frame that, and I think it's so well said. You know, in the 1700s, there was a revival. There was a great awakening. That revival led to revolution. Now we're seeing a kind of revival that could lead to reformation. You know, we're not trying to fundamentally overthrow the order. We're trying to call this nation back to order, back to liberty, back to the principles of faith and freedom. Self governance is really based on this idea that the. The true sovereign is not government. The true sovereign is not self. The true sovereign is God himself. And. And we need that right now, this word, this term. And I. I'm friends with Eric Metaxas. Love, Eric. I was very uncomfortable the first time I heard it. And then as I understood it more and I started to kind of match it up with the things that I had observed, I was like, actually, that's spot on. That is the idolatry of evangelism. I don't like it because in the ones we're all called to be evangelistic, we're called to be evangelical. That's in our name. We're calling people to be born again. However, when all of a sudden, you put that in front of discipleship, when you put that in front of the very offense of the gospel itself, this idea that we have to be called to repentance, to turn away from our sin, when any number of things all of a sudden gets in the way of that project of evangelism, it ceases to be evangelism, and it ceases to be a movement of God. It becomes something else entirely. And so I think it's a false idol. It's a false, false evangelism. But in many ways, you're right. Like, there were movements in which people were saying, hey, look, anything we put in the way is a barrier. I'm like, well, what about. What about all the things that Jesus said? I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword to divide father and mother, to divide households. Right. The gospel is in itself divisive. And I think one of the things that, you know, these early preachers made no apology for is that you must repent or you will likewise perish. That's what's needed. That message is still needed today in America.

[Josh McPherson]

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, sinners in the hands of an angry God was a sermon that sparked, in part the spiritual revival and awakening our nation that led to the birth of America. And that was not making people feel good about their status. That was a sermon that was preached. And he was reading it because his eyes were so bad at the time. And it was people who were there said there was such a sense of fear of God that many felt the floor would drop out below them and they'd fall into hell in that very moment. And there's something to a restoration of the fear of God that reorders and realigns everything rightly. And when the fear of God begins to drift and we forget the fact that we worship a God whose eyes are fire, things start to be perverted and. And drift. And maybe, you know, when you think about like idolizing evangelism, if that's hard for someone to swallow, you know, it's redefining evangelism, perhaps.

[Brett Baer]

Yeah.

[Josh McPherson]

Or thinking about it in a way that's ultimately unhelpful, where it's like the ultimate pinnacle that a church is wired for. And when you think about idolatry, idolatry is something good that's made ultimate and now it's bad.

[Seth Gruber]

Right.

[Josh McPherson]

And so like you can make an idol out of your spouse or out of food, or out of sex, or out of whatever these things are. And these are all good gifts God has given. But when they take an ultimate place, then they become bad. And that's kind of what evangelism did in the secret centered movement. It kind of took the ultimate place. Whatever it takes to not create a fence and to remove the barriers, whatever it takes, we're going to get these guys in here. Now it's in a place that it wasn't intended to be. And you always know something is an idol if you're willing to sacrifice truth in order to preserve it.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Amen.

[Josh McPherson]

And what we found is, and this is, I think, historically true, the road to heresy is always paved by bricks of well intentioned evangelism.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Josh McPherson]

And so it's incumbent upon the church, I believe, to. To come back to the place of fearing the Lord to preach and proclaim a holy God who, who has a right to judge the quick and the dead.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Amen. So well said. No one could have said it better this Morning. Pastor Josh McPherson, thank you for joining Sunday the road Forward. God bless you.

[Josh McPherson]

Thank you, Ryan. My honor.

[Dr. Tim Clinton]

Do people ever come to you asking for help? Maybe hope, encouragement? How about for prayer? Do you ever wish you understood the issues better that people were wrestling with? Or how to use the Bible more effectively in caring for people? If so, I'd love to get a copy of our caring counsel Bible in your hands. Featuring 116 topics written by some of the world's leading mental health and ministry experts. I think you're gonna love it. It covers today's most challenging issues in every phase of life. This Bible provides clinical expertise and insights on topics like discouragement, abuse, depression, divorce, anxiety, abortion and so much more. So you can learn more about these issues and how to use again the Bible more effectively. How to share passages of scripture with others, maybe sitting down over a cup of coffee. Or maybe it's just a resource to help you get through a tough time. You know what I love most about this Bible? It's so easy to use. You right up front are going to find an index with subjects, key passages of scripture, personality profiles, and so much more. The Care and Counsel Bible is retailing for $85, but we're going to make it available to you right now, our listeners and viewers for just $50 plus shipping. Again, I think you're going to love it. For more information about how to get this Bible right now, go to careandcouncil.com that's careandcouncil.com join tens of thousands of people have received this beautiful new King James Version Caring Counsel Bible. I'm Dr. Tim Clinton, President of the American association of Christian Counselors. Get your copy of the Care and Counsel Bible right now at our special price while supplies last. Go to careandcouncil.com that's careand counsel.com hi,

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

it's Karen and Georgia from my favorite Murder.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ionic 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamar.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Want the full story? Take a listen.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

Hetty. She starts dating Howard Hughes, the aviation tycoon. Do you know a lot about him?

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

I mean, I watch the Aviator, so I know everything Leonardo DiCaprio has allowed me to know about him. But incredible innovator, right?

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

She says he's a, quote, very strange man. But they do get along really well.

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Give us examples.

[Georgia (My Favorite Murder)]

I know they do get along intellectually. And in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. She takes a look at what he's designed. It's got these square wings and she's like, that doesn't make sense. And so she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of like what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie

[Karen (My Favorite Murder)]

Jean King, presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5. Goodbye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course if you enjoy over overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

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of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this is Newt Gingrich,

[Newt Gingrich]

former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast Newts World with 15 special episodes and I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Brett Baer]

I will be working because it's a big, big day. I'll be in Washington and have all kinds of coverage through the day of America.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

250 Rachel Campos Duffy there's nothing like American music. We're the home of rock and roll. We're the home of rap. We're the home of pop music.

[Newt Gingrich]

Eric Metaxas Jared Isaacman I plan to

[Jared Isaacman]

be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

The story of the national anthem and the President states Donald J. Trump Join me and let's celebrate America's 250. Listen to Newts World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Timothy Barton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Kevin Freeman]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes, listen to Armstrong. You get it all on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

2026 marks the 250th anniversary of America. The soul of this country is found in the stories of those who defended it. I'm J.R. martinez, a U.S. army veteran. I know that true valor isn't just a word. It's a choice made in a split second. That's why I'm honored to bring you a brand new season of medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. You'll fly into the heart of a rescue mission with Air Force pilot James Fleming in Vietnam.

[Seth Gruber]

I'm gonna put you out in the middle of hell. If you have to come home, I'll bring you home. That's my duty. It's my honor.

[J.R. Martinez]

We'll also travel back to 1926 to witness Richard Byrd's historic flight over the North Pole. These are more than just stories of combat. They are testaments to leadership, community, and the human spirit. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Joining us now is Kevin Freeman. He is a New York Times bestselling author and the host of the Economic war room on BlazeTV and the host of Pirate Money Radio on American Family Radio. He's the author of the forthcoming book the Four Horsemen of the American Apocalypse and Our Six Trials by Fire. Kevin, thank you for joining us. Great to see you.

[Kevin Freeman]

Oh, good to see you, Ryan. Thanks for having me.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Well, I want to talk a little bit about, first of all, it's, you know, America 250. It is a time of celebration. It's a time of remembrance. There's a lot of things to look to across our country and to see the rich blessings and embarrassment of riches that we've received from God as a country. We have to recognize, though, that freedom is not just about political freedom. It's also about economic freedom. It's about fiscal stewardship and responsibility. You talk a lot about this. Here we are on our on the anniversary of 250 years. How do we make sure that we have another 250 more?

[Kevin Freeman]

Oh, that's a huge question. And I'm fortunate that I'm going to. Tomorrow on my Pirate Money radio program, interview Dr. Ben Carson. And his answer would be, we've got to remember all the great things that have happened, teach our young people patriotism. And he's got a little Patriots program. And then he would also encourage, we've got to set up the systems that will allow us to operate for the next 250 years. And those systems are under attack. You mentioned my new book, the Four Horsemen of the American Apocalypse would be communist China, political Islam, globalism, and then the cowards, traitors and fools in America that want to sell us out. And the net result is young people want socialism. They don't prefer capitalism or free markets, despite the historical fact, despite the truth. And so the six trials by fire, one, we've built a massive debt. It's approaching $40 trillion. Number two, the dollar's under attack by enemies around the world who say, your dollar's not going to be worth anything in the future. Number three, we've creating central bank digital currencies and we've caused a wealth gap. Number four, we've caused a demographic problem. Number five, and that's leading to an invasion. So all of that is tied to economics and that's because we've forgotten what the founders taught us, that real money has to be real. It has to be something you can actually use that has reality to it. Not like the Continental notes that almost cost us the revolution, but gold and silver or at least a dollar that's not being spent like it's paper.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Zora Memdani won an election last year. It was the first of its kind. We have a just a very public outspoken socialist Marxist. He makes no apology for being, that has no. Makes no apology for being Islamic. Um, and New York this week had a primary. All of his endorsed candidates in New York City won their primaries. Here we are, Kevin, we're talking about economic security, we're talking about socialism, the rising threat of communism in this country. And it feels like there's just this greater division taking place between those who are conservatives that hold to these time tested principles of sound money and wisdom and, and really Republican freedom versus this kind of socialist nightmare that Democrats want to push. What's going on there?

[Kevin Freeman]

Well, in 1776, 250 years ago, Scottish economist Alexander Fraser Titler wrote about how democracies end. Now we're talking about a republic or a democracy. Democracies end when people learn they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. Hey, if I vote for Mamdani, I get free this and free that. That's how democracies end. And they always end about 250 years. So we're at a stark fork in the road choice. If we're going to go down socialism and voting ourselves largesse out of the treasury, we'll end up like Venezuela, Cuba, Soviet Union, you name the place, or even the Pilgrims where they've tried a socialist system and it failed miserably and it could caused worse economic problems. Or you can choose a Republican path that believes in free markets and individual liberty and individual private property, which is literally a biblical path. Choose the Bible path. It's I lay before you a blessing and a curse, life and death. Choose wisely. It's just the same choice we've been given. Will we do things God's way or do we think we're smarter than God and we'll do things our way? I promise you God's way is better.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Yes, I one of my great fears, and this is Something to look at when we think about 250 years. Here we are. God has blessed us this far. This is the nightmare scenario. It's not that America ceases to exist. It's that America ceases to be good. And I know as Christians, there. There is a. There is a biblical definition for what good is. There is none good except for God. There is none righteous. And one of the things we have to recognize is that some nations can limp on, they can linger, but they cease to be good. America could actually still be powerful, influential, and up to their eyeballs in debt and cease to be good and a force for good in the world. That's a nightmare. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

[Kevin Freeman]

Oh, if America does not hold to the liberty principles that our founders gave us based on the Bible, the world is lost. I mean, the power of America is enormous and it will remain enormous. But that's how you get to George Orwell in 1984. You get to Aldous Huxley and Brave New World. You get there from an America that's no longer good, where we're repressing our own people, we're silencing our free speech. And we saw elements of that during COVID and the whole world followed. And if America does not stay on a righteous path, God help us all. Now, the power of God can overcome all of that, and we'll see liberty where God wants to plant it and let it grow. But America has been the source of goodness in this world. Not that we're God and not that we're God goodness, but in terms of liberty and the opportunity to hear the gospel and the opportunity to know our savior that has in large part come from God using America.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

And just the final, just the final moments here as we wrap up in the next minute. Can you just tell me a little bit more about this forthcoming volume, this, this new book that you have coming out, the Four Horsemen of the American Apocalypse. Apocalypse and Our Six Trials by Fire.

[Kevin Freeman]

It is basically a description of America potentially. At that fork in the road, are we going to turn the good way or the bad way? And what the implications are, not just nationally, not just internationally, but personally. What that will matter to you personally if we go the right way or the wrong way?

[Ryan Helfenbein]

Kevin Freeman, thank you for all that you do. Host of the Economic War Room and also Pirate Money Radio. Thank you for joining us this morning.

[Brett Baer]

I'm Dr. Tim Murphy, a clinical psychologist and former commander in the U.S. navy Medical Service Corps. This year marks 250 years of American freedom bought by men and women willing to sacrifice everything. Military service teaches resilience, teamwork, and a principle that never leaves you. No one gets left behind. But too many veterans come home to invisible wounds, traumatic memories, depression, moral injury, the loss of purpose. Since 2001, more than 150,000 veterans have died by suicide. Did you know that? Now, some needed clinical care, but a lot of them just needed someone willing to show up and listen. That's where mental health coaches step in. The American association of Christian Counselors and light University offer two certifications built for this moment. A 24 session mental health coach certification for those called to serve, veterans, military families and first responders. And our Human Flourishing Coaching certification for those wanting to walk alongside people towards wholeness. Both are available for just a $46 support fee. You asked what you could do for veterans. Here's your answer. Leave no veteran behind.

[Ryan Helfenbein]

As we close today, I want to take a look back exactly 239 years ago to this very date. June 28, 1787. Inside the Pennsylvania State House in Philadelphia, the Constitutional Convention was deadlocked. Big states against small states, tempers flaring, delegates walking out. The whole project looked like it might collapse. That's when Benjamin Franklin, 81 years old, rose to speak. He reminded the room that they'd opened every single session in prayer during the darkest days of the revolution and those prayers had been answered. Had they forgotten that powerful friend Franklin told them, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth that God governs in the affairs of men. The prayer motion never even passed a vote, but the convention found its way through and a constitution got written. That's the same posture every guest pointed us back to today. The men who argued Dobbs, the men who founded this nation, the men leading their families in churches, the men sounding the alarm on our economy. None of them had certainty they'd win. They had conviction the outcome wasn't ultimately in their hands, but they believed and trusted in the Lord and they acted anyway. So here's my challenge this week. In whatever deadlock you're facing in family, finances, community, or even your church, don't wait for certainty. Just act faithfully. Franklin didn't know the Constitution would hold. He acted anyway and he prayed anyway. Until next time, may God grant you the same confidence that Franklin had that he still governs in the affairs of men. Until next time. God bless you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for 15amonth plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

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Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan opt taxes and fees Extra feeful [e-mail] on new Twirl

[Newt Gingrich]

podcast we're celebrating America's 250th birthday and I ask my guests how they're spending their 4th of July.

[Brett Baer]

Brett Baer I will be working. I'll be in Washington because it's a big, big day.

[Jared Isaacman]

Jared Isaacman I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

Listen to Newts world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Timothy Barton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy

[Kevin Freeman]

modern world about something about a community comedic tone.

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes, listen to Armstrong and Yeti on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[J.R. Martinez]

As America marks its 250th anniversary, we're looking back at two and a half centuries of rebellion and liberty through the eyes of the heroes who defended it.

[Seth Gruber]

The whole thing about this country is freedom. If we're not careful, we could lose that.

[J.R. Martinez]

On Medal of Honor Stories of Courage, we bring you the defining moments of valor that went above and beyond the call of duty. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.