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A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play fan like a pro. And shop now@nflshop.com we all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay that Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. Ebay things people love. It's Sunday, September 28, 2025. Welcome to Real America's Voice News. This is Sunday the road forward. This past week, the nation watched as Charlie Kirk's life was remembered and honored. The country witnessed goodness and beauty where in the wake of senseless violence and politicized killing, the right chose not to riot, but instead to worship the one true and living God. Worship is our weapon and its power was felt all across the nation and around the world. We had the most powerful leaders of the most powerful country on the planet proclaiming the gospel of Christ's lordship and salvation. There's truly no better picture of Romans, chapter 8, verse 28. And that's our scripture reading this morning. All things God works together for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose. As always, we want to be an encouragement and a source of comfort for our listeners and our viewers to hold fast to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the unchanging word of God. I'm Ryan Helfenbein. I'll be filling in for Dr. Tim Clinton. I'll be your host. Today on the show, we have Dr. Zach Clinton, Amy Robbins, William Wolfe and Virgil Walker. For he alone is worthy. For he al always worthy. For more encouragement and to stay connected, follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X. We love being a part of your life. Joining us now is Dr. Zach Clinton, who is actually at the American Association Christian Counselors World Conference at the Gaylord Opry Land resort in Nashville. Dr. Zach Clinton, welcome. It's great to see you, sir. Ryan, my friend, thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to just joining you. I'm telling you, God is doing something special in this place. You mentioned the Gaylord Opryland Hotel, Nashville, Tennessee, 2025 United World Conference, 7000 pastors, counselors, coaches, clinicians. Strong God is. His presence has fallen all over this place and our hope and prayer. I was talking to my dad just last night about this. What do we hope that people walk away with? It wasn't be that they rejoice in what happened here, but it would be that they rejoice in who God is. If they can walk away with a better understanding of who he is. I think that we've done our job. Amen. I. I would be remiss, you know, so much of what the nation is still thinking about, you know, still fresh on. The impression on the minds of young people everywhere is what transpired last week at the National Memorial there for Charles James Kirk, a friend of yours, a friend of mine, a friend of so many, and your father and I, we were there. We were there, many of our friends with the National Faith Advisory Board and with Turning Point. Turning Point Faith, the standing for Freedom Center. We had many fellows in those early days when we were starting this organization with Charlie Kirk. Just your thoughts, your. Your impression about what you saw, what you think the nation is feeling right now in the wake of this sort of this. This tragic moment, but also a pivotal moment, a turning point, many people are calling it right now. Yeah, you know, I heard somebody say that maybe Charlie didn't understand why he named it Turning Point up front, but it was almost prophetic in nature, because I do believe that this is a turning point in our nation. I think we've seen this over the last year or two as well. Yes, there's a mental health disaster that we're in. That's kind of why we gather to continue to train and counsel and equip all of these mental health experts around the globe. But also there's a hunger for holiness. There's a bit of revival going on. And what we saw on Sunday, to see an administration that was bold enough to present the gospel, every single one of them, in some way, shape or form. I don't know if I ever would have seen that across my lifetime. It's sad that it had to happen in the way that it did. And I'll say this, Charlie, like you mentioned, was a friend to all of us. And Charlie is somebody who unwaveringly was devoted to standing on truth. And truth can be offensive sometimes. And I just want to remind people that while fear is contagious, so is faith. Billy Graham says this, that courage is contagious. When a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened. I think that we're seeing that. My prayer for the church, though, is that it wouldn't just be an upscale in voices, but that we would choose to live an example of what it means to be more like Christ. And because that's what I think Charlie Kirk really lived by. He. He absolutely did. And, you know, it's interesting you had mentioned Charlie naming it Turning Point and not maybe fully understanding why, but in the full providence of God and in the unfolding of time. It became clear that Charlie would be the catalyst for a turning point. You know, on Sunday, the nation was united in the name of Jesus Christ, the name that is above every name. I'm seeing people who are not Christians making declarations of faith and of trust in Jesus Christ and the gospel, which is fantastic. People reunited. Your theme, the theme of your conference right now for these 7,000 Christian counselors is united. Wow. What are the odds of that? This is a unifying moment, brother. So what. Why, why did you pick that title? You know, hear this. A lot of people say, well, they probably chose it because of what's happened over the last couple of weeks. This title of being united actually was brought about back in 2022. So all of, like the graphics, all of the themes are decided years in advance as we pray over what we believe that God wants that theme to be. And again, in his divine providence, he wanted that theme to be right here, right now, for such a time as this. And there couldn't be a better theme because we have people from all over again with different belief systems. But at the same time, one thing that we have in common is the name of Jesus Christ that we are going to advocate for, that we're going to provide awareness of, and that we're going to continue to give access to in this line of mental health care. And so what it means to be united to me is simply this, that there is honestly, power in partnership. There's comfort and courage and community. And that resilience is rooted in relationship. When we stand together, we simply stand stronger. Amen. You know, you've got a lot of things going on that. That AACC is a critical partner in that. That includes the White House, that includes many of the cabinet secretaries, agencies in the federal government. I wanted to kind of touch on some of these things right now, programs that are coming out. I know about Walking Worthy and some of these other things. So I would love to just kind of extrapolate on what those things are. Absolutely. So two big ones that stick out to me are Walk Worthy and then Helping our Heroes Flourish campaign Walk Worthy, though. First, dear friend of mine, Joshua Broom, who has a testimony as it relates to pornography and sexual addiction, actually working in that industry, building his way up to becoming performer of the year. Over a thousand films in the adult film industry was radically transformed by the good news of the gospel. Now, for the last decade, he's devoted his life to helping people seek and find help when it comes to sexual purity and integrity. So this is a New initiative and division of ours at the aacc. One of the greatest issues in the church, you know this Ryan, is pornography and sexual addiction. So how can we help equip resources for the church to do that very thing? Helping our heroes flourish is really around helping those who risk it all and put themselves on the line each and every day. For our veterans, our first responders, active duty, active duty military and their families. How can we train up an army of clinicians and coaches to provide the resource and shrink the gap between those seeking help and those offering Christ centered biblical care to great examples. I, I do want to touch a touch on this because you know, you, you being a biblically trained counselor, understanding the science also behind how the human mind works, right. There's some intricacies there. Often times we hear about post traumat disorder, it's a syndrome. Tell us a little bit about that. I mean, how. I think, I think people are becoming increasingly more aware of what it is, its impact. But if these guys are on the front lines, I mean I'm thinking about people who are in combat situations, but then also first responders, people that are facing mass shooter events. We're talking about natural disasters, fires, where there's a dramatic loss of life, similar to the floods that happened in the hill country of Texas where we had hundreds of people who, who we lost and never recovered. What, how big is PTSD when it comes to the mental health field? PTSD is massive, Ryan. I think the reality is that trauma has almost become a buzzword in culture and society. People will say that anything that they experience is traumatic in some way, shape or the form. But being able to realize what trauma does, trauma really almost compartmentalizes the brain and sometimes it puts us in this state of implicit memory where it's like when we're experienced with something, when we're triggered in some way, shape or form, what ends up happening is it's not like we're just remembering a moment. It's almost like we're re experiencing that moment all over again. In this particular time, Van der Kolk has an incredible book on trauma called the Body Keeps the Score. The Brain, mind, body, connection. And so providing opportunity for people to come to learn how to experience, explore and express their emotions, to unpackage trauma. Because if we don't process it, it will resurface later in life. And so not suppress it or not repress it, but to process it and to express it in a more meaningful way as we do that in relationship. I think that's how we'll See, kind of a detox of trauma in our world today. Absolutely. Tell us a little bit to curriculum. There is a. You have a global center and at Liberty University right now on human flourishing. And so I just. If you wanted to speak into that a little bit, I'd love to hear more about that. Yes, well, human flourishing, something I wrote my dissertation around. But I'll tell you this, Ryan, it's not new age. It's not something that just came up with last year. This goes all the way back to ancient biblical times. In the Old Testament, it was referred to as shalom, wholeness, peace, unity. In the New Testament, machairos, blessedness, the abundant life. So this is something that God designed for his people now. Pain and distractions. And the devil, he's been doing the same things, the same tactics from the very beginning. Delusion, destruction, deception. To deter and distract us from God's original design for creation and children. But can we train up an army of people? That's why we came out with the Human Flourishing coaching program, to remind people it's not just about preventing human suffering, it's about promoting things like flourishing, like resilience, so that no matter what we go through, we might be able to define it as good and push ourselves in the right direction each and every day. Okay, final thing before a send off. Dr. Zach Clinton, favorite Bible verse for us today. My favorite Bible verse that I've been reflecting on right now in this season, 1st Thessalonians 4, verses 11 to 12. To make it your aim or ambition to live a quiet life, minding your own business, working with their hands, just as you've been instructed. Why? So that you might win the respect of outsiders and not grow dependent on anybody. I spent a lot of time in my life, Ryan, trying to be first. But you know what? The more I reflect on God's Word, I just want to be found faithful. So that's been the verse I've been reflecting on. Amen. I love it. I'm thinking that. I think Phil Robertson loved that verse as well. Dynasty. And often reflected on it, you know, and. And brother, I think that is. That is a good word. Living out your life faithfully for Christ, for his kingdom, but in a way that is. That is not always out there front and center banging a gong. Aspire to the quiet life. That's exactly right. Amen. Well, Dr. Zach Clinton, thank you so much for joining us this morning and God bless you. Godspeed, sir, as you continue in this conference. God bless you, Ryan. 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Where do you see the business actually heading? Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and hosted by co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change. Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen now. A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else. And show up ready for every kickoff and big play fan like a pro and shop now@nflshop.com the US electric grid is approaching a breaking point as demand soars from data centers and home energy use. Our aging infrastructure can't keep up and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn more@probane.com joining us now is Amy Robbins. She's a wife, mother, CEO and founder of Alexo Athletica, an athletic clothing brand designed for women. With conceal carry in mind. Amy is host of the Amy Robbins show and a regular cultural and political commentator on Real America's Voice News. Amy, so good to see you. Hey Ryan, it's great to be here with you. I, you know, this is the week after we memorialize Charlie Kirk, somebody who you knew, you, you know, Erica Kirk. Um, we're all still in shock about what happened on September 10th. You've known Charlie for many years. You've been a close friend to Turning Point. You've participated, you know, even as an influencer with Turning Point and been a part of many events going all the way back to we hosted you at Liberty University back I think what I say back in 2019, when we started at that time, what was going to be the standing for Freedom Center? You were all, you were a part of that and I Just, you know, for many viewers, listeners who. Things have kind of settled, sure, this is the new normal, you know, what the. What our country looks like with, you know, Charlie's influence has grown larger than we could ever imagined it would. And, you know, Erica, she gave a brave and bold speech at the memorial. I can't imagine. You're a wife and a mother. What did it mean to you to hear her say those words, that she forgives that man who took her husband's life? It buckled me like I think it did everybody in that crowd, because I think at that point, I had to wrestle with my own flesh and to say, how in the world can this lady, this happened to her husband, be forgiving him? And here I am. I haven't even gotten to that point yet. And, you know, it was just such a beautiful, powerful moment. The only way that she was able to do that was because of the power of God, because of Christ in her life and because of her relationship with him. I mean, there's really no other way to. To describe it. And I tried to put myself in those shoes, and I said, you know, God always equips the people that he calls. And he has obviously called her for such a time as this, to this new position, this new role with Turning Point. But it was just so powerful to see the messages that I've been receiving afterwards of people saying, like, I don't know what that is, but I want that. I want whatever in my life, she has in her life that gave her the power and the ability to. To forgive somebody so quickly. So it's turned into some amazing conversations about the gospel. I think I reached out to you afterwards because I was getting flooded with messages from people saying, I have now decided to turn back to Christ or to turn to Christ. And they've never had any religious background. Where do I go from here? It's been this really amazing opportunity to start to be disciples and start leading and pointing people in a direction where they can actually grow. Grow in their walk with Christ. And I gotta tell you, I never in a million years would have thought that we would see a revival like this, not only in our country, but around the entire world. Amen. You know, in his life, Charlie reached millions. In his death, hundreds of millions. Only God can take something that wicked and make and turn it for the good. It does not take away from the sting or the pain or the sense of tremendous loss. It is not a good thing that Charlie died. It's not a good thing that he was assassinated by a transgender activist. It's not a good thing that Erica is not a widow. It's not a good thing that two children lost their. Their dear father. It. Those are. None of those things are good. Right. But in spite of all of that, in spite of the tragedy, God can work it for the ultimate good. And, and I think we're seeing little, like you just said, little echoes and whispers of that, that people are coming forward and stepping out in faith for the first time. And it's activated something in people's minds and in their hearts where they're saying, I want to know. Just like you said, I want to know how it is that that woman could say that on that stage. You know, it means something when it, When. When what was. Was most precious to her, her husband, her children's father was ripped from her life. And she could say that there. That's not just rhetoric. It. You have to be moved beyond your own heart. It has to be supernatural. Well, I can't. I kept thinking too. So as she was speaking, she was really keying in on the message about biblical womanhood, biblical manhood, where the family goes from here. And I said, mark my words, Erica will be her own leader. And I bet she takes this direction of reinstilling family and what a better, like, I cannot think of a better person to get the message across about biblical womanhood. I mean, like, what biblical femininity means, what that role of a wife means. It's just like hearing it outside of the church is just very different. Having somebody like Erica who has the accomplishments that she's had, but was also the wife of Charlie Kirk, who she was such amazing support to him. It is like to hear the words from her talk about what a biblical woman should look like in that role. I honestly think it is going to transform women across this entire country. I know I was convicted in my own heart. I know so many other women were as well. And I'm like, I just cannot wait to see what she does with championing the family and the biblical roles for manhood and womanhood moving forward. I think it's going to be pretty spectacular. Amen. You hit the nail on the head. This is God's calling. I believe on Erica's life, one that she didn't know on September 9th, but here we are. And so she's wearing a new kind of crown. Oh, yeah, she. She was crowned a beauty queen, but my goodness, her biblical breadth and depth. And, you know, ever since I Met Erica in 2019, Erica Franz Fay, and she was a deeply devoted follower of Christ. Somebody who had a daily Bible study, and not just for herself, but she was writing Bible study material for anyone who had not been engaged, you know, in the text. And she's just trying to get the Bible out there. Yeah, before she married Charlie, I know that same time when I met her, they weren't even married yet. It was at that event at Liberty. And she just impressed me so much with how kind, how genuine, how smart. And then I followed her Bible365. She was encouraging people, trying to take people who, you know, reading the entire Bible can be very overwhelming. I would say there's probably not a large majority of people that have read through the entire Bible. And she wanted to make that very practical and digestible for people. So she started this whole group, this app that helped walk people through the Bible in 365 days. I mean, she was doing all this. I think she started that even before they got married. And obviously it grew. But I just remember seeing, seeing as she, as she did get married and grow in that role with Charlie, how things started to transform at Turning Point. You always knew there was an underlying faith component to Turning Point and what was pushing them in their political beliefs, but they really started to amp it up. And as she was leading prayer breakfast at YWLS and America Fest. And so you started to really see this shift, shift on them really moving to be more faith based and to be more vocal, I would say, on their faith and to say the name Jesus Christ. And I have to say that that was probably one of the most touching moments to me about his memorial. When you have the most powerful people in the world all saying the name of Jesus Christ. And it just made me think of that verse that one day every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. And I said, man, you've got Vice President of the United States of America saying that he is now inspired more to say the name of Jesus. Like, where are we ever going? I don't know if we will ever see anything like this ever again. So you can't help but get energized in, you know, the movement moving forward. I know for myself, people say, well, where do we go from here? What do we do? And I'm like, well, keep doing what you're doing. Just do more of it. If you've got a platform to speak the name of Jesus, do it. If you are just for more encouragement and to stay connected, follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X. We love being a part of your life. Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up@washablesofas.com Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric. Fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time, save the 25%@LG.com with code Fall25. Bring the boom X Boom There's a lot going on in Hollywood. How are you supposed to stay on top of it all? Variety has the solution. Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new daily Variety podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives. Where do you see the business actually heading? Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and hosted by co Editor in Chief Cynthia Littleton, the only constant in Hollywood is change. Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen now. A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play Fan like a pro and shop now@nflshop.com the US electric grid is approaching a breaking point as demand soars from data centers and home energy use. Our aging infrastructure can't keep up and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane It's American made, stored on site and always ready. Powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn more@probane.com joining me now is Virgil Walker. Virgil is a contributor and writer with the Standing for Freedom Center. He's also co host of the Just Thinking podcast, author of numerous books. Virgil, welcome to Sunday the Road Forward. Great to see you. Always good to be with you, Ryan. Thanks for having me. I, you know, you were with me just last week. Last Sunday in Phoenix honoring, paying tribute to the life of Charlie Kirk. Certainly there to ultimately exalt the name that is above every name, the name at which every knee shall bow. Tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. We're there to exalt Jesus. There's a turning point that has come, I think, in the United States, but the question right now that looms large among many evangelicals that have been watching, I think some with hope, some with frustration about what we've seen in the evangelical world going all the way back to 2017 and 2018, social justice theory, critical race theory, all this stuff kind of going into, you know, the, the large denominations, the pca, the Southern Baptist Convention. Think about what happened in Covid, the Floyd, you know, riots that were happening all across the country, blm, all of that. The question is, is this a turning point for evangelicalism? And I think this is the thesis and everybody's asking it. You and I have talked about it. Which way is it, is it Keller? Is it Tim Keller? Is it more this cultural engagement kind of thing, or is it a new kind of paradigm, one that's been with us actually for a really long time, but one that has been dismissed by the intelligentsia of the evangelical world. And that is Charlie Kirk, you know, Charlie Kirk, which is a kind of robust conservative political engagement that is no holds barred when it comes to truth. Any topic, nothing is off limits. We'll talk about any political issue. Oh, yeah, and we'll take a strong position and we'll give you the gospel. How about that? How about them apples? What's going on in your view? Is there kind of a reappraisal happening? Yeah. No. I think in your opening you kind of traced it out from 2016 on. And what we saw was this slide into a more a softening stance on issues as it relates to gender, as it relates to ethnicity, you know, as it relates to homosexuality and marriage, all of these issues. The church felt very embarrassed about declaring God's word. They Felt embarrassed about saying what God said in his word about these subjects. And so the idea was, hey, let's soften those stances. Let's. Let's kind of model a more. A more comfortable, you know, more. A more accommodating approach to addressing these issues. And when that takes place, what happens is the truth ultimately gets shielded. The truth ultimately doesn't come out. And so we had the Tim Kellers, that whole methodology really begun to have impact. And we saw an inflection point with it right around 2020 with George Floyd and the social justice movement. What's transpired since is we've watched all the wickedness that followed, right? We've watched BLM take money off of the backs of dead black men and utilize it to buy houses in white secluded areas. We've witnessed the decay, the absolute decay and the ill intent of some of these organizations as they've siphoned off money and done and really robbed the communities in which they claimed that they were supporting to help. What we also witness is Charlie and his example. And we, like you said this past week, got a chance to memorialize that and think about that and consider what he did and demonstrated for us all, which was to speak rightly, to speak clearly, to speak directly based upon what God's word says about these issues, but to do so with the compassion of a lover of God, with the compassion of someone who. Who loves God, who loves people and wants to be clear about the truth, and when doing so, had a massive impact. And we got a chance to witness it firsthand at his memorial after his death. Do you think, Virgil, that. You know, I know that there are many institutions out there that have kind of perpetuated the false narrative. I mean, they become the centers. You know, this is the official position. We're going to pay our writers to promote these ideas and disseminate them broadly. We're going to use the largest pulpits in America, in the conservative evangelical world, to be kind of the bully pulpits for globalism, for Wokeism, for, you know, any other kind of isms that you can name. Do you think that they are on their heels a little bit? Do you think that they're going to be in retreat? Do you think they're going to try and pivot now and sort of accept what people now commonly understand? Do you think there will be a paradigm shift, or you think they're going to double down? Yeah, no, I think these are people who have their feet firmly planted in midair. These are people who are following the winds of Change. And so they'll try to embrace what Charlie Kirk has done. They'll try to embrace or at least walk away. They'll begin walking away slowly. I think of that meme where the guy kind of walks back into the bushes and kind of high. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. It'll be. It'll be that kind of approach to all of the social justice issues that they so proudly proclaimed previously. Right. What ends up happening in that instance, and that's kind of in our conversation days ago that we were having. That's a. That's a part of my concern is that we'll have all these people who will be heroes, who will keep up for the cause, because they recognize that this is the winning move. The winning move has always been the winning move. And it's not simply because Charlie did it. It's because Christ did it. And that is to tell the truth. Be clear about the truth. Love people in the midst of it. But, but, but be a declarer of the truth. Point to the light, point to God, and call and call people to repentance and faith and the one true and living God. My concern is that they'll. That they'll keep up for that cause for a season. And then when the. When the winds of change begin to flow, they'll begin to move in a different direction. That's why I loved what you said the other day. I guess I don't know if you. It was when you were here talking together, but you say you need to decide what. Where you're going to stand. Are you going to live, fight and die on. On truth? How are you going. Are you willing to go out on your shield? Is that. Are you willing to do that? Because that's. That's what our day and our time requires. It requires men who are willing to go out to die on their shield, to die on. On the basis of truth. Yes. You're welcome to stand on this rock. You're welcome to come to it, even if you come to it late, but come to it just the same. If you'll come to this rock, you're welcome to it, but you better stand here, you better stay here, you better build here. You better fight here and be willing to die on this rock. There are a lot of people that I think when the flood waters come, they swim over to that rock. And when the flood waters are rising, they're looking for the higher ground, and they want to get to it. But as soon as. As soon as the coast is clear, as soon as the danger dissipates, as soon as tomorrow, the sun rises just the same and there is no more dark, looming clouds, There is no more rain. All of a sudden, those summer soldiers, those summer, what do they call them, the Sunshine Patriots? You know, they go right back to what they were doing before. They're, they're not winter soldiers. And Charlie, Charlie was in the dog days. Charlie was on campus when it was unpopular. There was a time when Charlie wasn't drawing those crowds. There was a time when Charlie didn't have the fanatical support or the social media followers. There were a lot of naysayers. There were a lot of people that were dismissing him. Even when I was telling Virgil, you know, some, some evangelical leaders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you got to understand something. Charlie's changed on a lot of these positions. I know, you know, he took the faithful marriage position, but he wasn't always that way. Him personally, he was, but I'm just saying from a platform he was not going to major on. Let me defend traditional marriage. There was a period of time where he wasn't doing that. And I was trying to explain to them, look at the content he's making. Would you consider it now? And there were a lot of people that were dismissive and a lot of people that were not willing to give it a fair hearing. And now, only now are they willing to pay attention. But I don't know if they're willing to listen in the way of, or learn in the way of, hey, maybe we should adopt this new position. Final thoughts. What would you say to those guys today? Yeah, yeah, I, I, I'd say what, what you and I and others have, have been saying and, and that is that that they need to bow to the knee. They're both their knee to the cross of Christ to be consistent about the truth of his word, the declaration of that truth to the culture, and be willing to take whatever arrows the world sends your way. Right. Our ultimate goal is to stand on the foundation of God's rock, on the rock of truth. And knowing that regardless of the outcome, whether we live or die, we die in the Lord. Whether we live or whether we die, we die in the Lord. That passage out of Romans, chapter 14, verse 8, that rings true. And Charlie did die a witness for the Lord. Thank you so much, Virgil, for coming on. Appreciate all you're doing at Redeemer out there, Redeemer Church there in Gilbert, Arizona, and certainly for the standing for Freedom Center. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having me, man. You know, I realize there are lot of choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service. And there are a lot of new ones popping up all the time. But here's the truth. 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It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn more@probane.com joining me now is William Wolfe. William is the executive director of the center for Baptist Leadership as well as a contributor to the Standing for Freedom Center. William, welcome to Sunday Road Forward. Great to see you. Thanks for having me on. Ryan, I I was with you just last Sunday. It's been a week. It's amazing how much can change in a week. I think the nation, in particular the evangelical world has been rocked by the assassination, the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, who we lost on September 10th. You know, it's interesting, William, in the sort of the twist of it all and I haven't really talked about this much but just I think about all the vitriol, the hatred, the celebration sort of in the aftermath of all of this. I mean everyone from Jimmy Kimmel to even people like David Brooks, so called conservative commentator at the New York Times, everybody kind of finding a way to excuse their hatred, their animosity, their antipathy towards Charlie and what he represented. I think there is a moment right now where Christians and conservatives need to understand the art of pursuit. We're grateful for Erica Kirk, her courage in her heart of forgiveness. It's not up to Erica to wield the sword. It's up to the state. It's not up to Erica to vindicate her husband. She gives that to the Lord. But it's up to us, I believe, as Christians of people of faith and a people of goodwill to see to it that evil does not go unpunished. And, and I believe wholeheartedly, William, that isn't just those who committed the crime. It's those who celebrate the loss of life. Those people should not go unpunished. Yeah, I agree entirely, Ryan. It was a wonderful, powerful service out there in Phoenix, Arizona last Sunday. But we are in a very perilous time, a precarious time. I know that it's been about three, two and a half weeks now and you can't do things immediately, but the left keeps coming. We've seen now an attack on an ICE facility since the assassination of Charlie Kirk and other other left wing violent attacks. And this is a problem we have to take seriously and put an end to because the left will not listen to our words because they think our words are violence and they are meeting that with their own violence. That's exactly right. You know, since September 10th, I counted five active shooter events, all perpetrated by leftists, all perpetrated. You know, we've heard oftentimes the both sides kind of argument. Both sides have their violence, both sides have their vitriol, both sides have their assassins. I'm not seeing that, William. I'm not see, I'm seeing this as a one sided kind of issue. There is a side that celebrates and champions and promotes life. There's a side that seeks to steal, kill and destroy from life. It's called the culture of death. When it comes to say, people like Jimmy Kimmel from his platform trying to turn this into some kind of a joke and notice Jimmy Kimmel would never dare make fun of those on the left, even, even at the, you know, even at the, the slightest faux pas, public, you know, mistakes that they would make. The Biden administration, I'm thinking of Kamala Harris and Joe Biden tripping down a set of stairs. Things like that would not take an opportunity to ever jab. But in the, in the worst moment would, would, would seek to poke fun through this Tragedy at Charlie Kirk, at President Trump, at those around the country to make fun of. He was essentially censored. He was given an ultimatum. He was then canceled by the parent company, abc, of abc, Disney, Bob Iger, all of that. And then subsequently they wanted to put him back on. Were it not for Sinclair Broadcasting and the syndication channels, he would be broadcast all throughout the country. What are your thoughts to that? Yeah, I mean, my thoughts are that the left plays hardball and the right rolls over over and over and over again. And that's part of the reason why we're, we are in the mess that we are in. I'm thankful that Sinclair held their ground. But Jimmy Kimmel is back and you, if you saw the reaction, this is what was really remarkable. The media, the Democrats, the left, the whole institutional left in America cared far more that a failing, unfunny late night host suffered legitimate consequences for his speech than they did that Charlie Kirk's life was taken from him for his. Yeah, which shows you this is not a both sides problem. The left essentially has a monopoly on political violence in America and they're not at all afraid to use force to get their way, even when they're trying to boost somebody as terrible as Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah. How do you see what is the way forward? And so obviously we can fold our hands, we can shake our heads, we can be shocked, we can be agitated by this. But what, what do you, what would you say in terms of a conservative base that's out there, a Christian evangelical base, one that, that can absolutely get up off the couch, can absolutely get out into the public arena and can do things that are constructive, do things that are strategic, do things that would secure a victory. What are some action steps that you might suggest even this morning? Sure. I mean, this is one of the most basic things you can ever do. But Christians, evangelicals, conservatives of all stripes across America should be burning down the phone lines of their elected representatives, state, local and federal, saying do something to protect us, because it's getting dangerous out there, it's getting violent out there. And the right, our Republican leaders, need to act swiftly and seriously to protect American citizens from left wing terrorism in this country. So make calls, pray, rally if you can, and where you can. But we need to demand action in particular. You know, it's interesting, I was with Charlie Kirk just a few days before he died. I was in South Korea and we were speaking to a group of young conservatives, Christians, those who love America, love freedom. They want religious liberty. They want, you know, freedom of conscience. Conscientious protection, rights, all of that. The right to free assembly, the right to a free press. Much of the media that they receive from the United States is, is essentially the deep state exported. It's, it's those that are friendly, what we call the inner media. Cnn, msnbc, those types of propagated, you know, platforms are being pumped in. And Charlie was speaking courage to them. And one of the interesting things I will say about South Korea, of all the things they're not getting everything right right now, there's a lot of concern about freedom and free and fair elections. But one of the things that Charlie noticed is, wow, it looks like crime is really a choice. And when we say that, we're like, oh, yeah, the choice for citizens not to commit crime. No, no, no, no, not just that. The choice for those in authority, those that have legal authority and jurisdiction. The choice of them to adjudicate, to prosecute crime. We let a lot of crime go unpunished. Irena Zarutska is a prime example. This is one of those things that we need to see some bold action. I got about one more minute, but what's your response to that in terms of the United States right now? It's almost like it's a. It's one of the largest outdoor shooting ranges. Yeah, you're exactly right. Crime is a choice. The questions in front of us are not difficult or complicated or complex, but policy questions. They're ones of political will. And the American people elected Donald Trump to make this country great again and to make it safe again. And I'll put it like this, the left is essentially at this point in America, like a spoiled, bratty, violent child having a temper tantrum. They will not listen to you saying, please stop. We need the government, not private citizens, the government to use their force that they are tasked to use by us and by God to. To put an end to this, because that's the only way that it will come to an end. Yeah, I 100% agree. It is for the government, Romans chapter 13. To not wield the sword in vain, to promote public righteousness, to promote the good, to promote beautiful and true, but to also be a terror to evildoers. They need to be afraid of the sword of justice that is absolutely, sorely needed in the United States today. William Wolfe, thank you so much for all you're doing at the center for Baptist Leadership and for jumping on Sunday the road forward this morning. God bless you. Thanks, Ryan. For more encouragement and to stay connected, follow Dr. Tim Clinton on Facebook, Instagram and X We love being a part of your life. Foreign hey, thank you for watching Sunday the Road Forward as we bring this time to a close, let's not forget the truth that anchors us all in all things. Yes, all things. God works for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose. That means even in the face of darkness, even when evil seems to advance, even when the battle feels overwhelming, God is still moving, he's still working, and he's still accomplishing his plan. Evil wants us silent. Evil wants us fearful. But the people of God are not called to shrink back. We are called to stand, to speak, to shine light into the shadows, and to proclaim that the victory is already won because it belongs to Jesus. Every trial is temporary, every scheme of the enemy will fail, and every faithful act of courage echoes into eternity. Where do we go from here? Remember this. The war between good and evil is real, but our God has won the victory. So walk boldly, live faithfully, and never forget who is on your side. Until next time. God bless you. Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe, you never have to stress about Messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Anabe Sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? 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Take 20 minutes out of your day and listen to the new daily Variety podcast for breaking entertainment news and expert perspectives. Where do you see the business actually heading? Featuring the iconic journalists of Variety and hosted by co Editor in Chief Cynthia Littleton. The only constant in Hollywood is change. Open your free iHeartradio app, search daily Variety and listen now. A new NFL season means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play. Fan like a pro and shop now@nflshop.com Oral health goes beyond just aesthetics. It's deeply connected to your general health and well being. That's why preventing oral health problems before they start is so important. 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