THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON (EP. 4935)

Summary

Podcast Summary: THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON (EP. 4935)

Date: November 18, 2025
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guests: Megan Basham (Evangelical Analyst & Author), Mark Mitchell (Rasmussen Polling), Daniel Buck, Others

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The War Room" centers on a deep-dive into the current state of the American evangelical movement, the growing divide between its leadership and laity, and the influence of progressive forces—including major philanthropic foundations—on evangelical institutions and politics. The show also covers the arrival of the Saudi Crown Prince at the White House, Israel’s political dynamics, shifting generational attitudes among Christians, and the production of a new album by the J6 Prison Choir.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. The Saudi Crown Prince’s U.S. Visit and Middle East Realignment

[00:06–01:30, 24:01–24:56]

• The broadcast begins with live coverage of the Saudi Crown Prince (MBS) arriving for a formal White House ceremony, highlighting Saudi-U.S. relations, major weapons and economic deals, and U.S. strategy in the Middle East.
• Stephen Bannon contextualizes this event as a turning point, citing the ongoing negotiations around the Abraham Accords and a possible two-state solution for Israel-Palestine, with implications emerging from the recent U.N. Security Council developments.

Memorable Quote:
"We're giving it all back, 100 years later... Now you're going to have a semi-official [Palestinian state] that came out of the UN Security Council meeting yesterday with the Turks... the Muslims, the Arabs united with the United States of America."
— Stephen K. Bannon [14:08]

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2. The “Third Way” and Evangelical Leadership’s Political Shift

[02:17–13:42]

• Megan Basham exposes a growing rift between evangelical churchgoers—who remain staunchly conservative—and a leadership class influenced by progressive NGOs and secular foundations.
  • Left-leaning foundations (Soros, Clinton, Rockefeller, Zuckerberg, Gates) have funneled funding into evangelical “front groups” with the goal of shifting the movement leftward.
  • The “Third Way,” popularized by theologian Tim Keller, counsels political neutrality but in practice, biases leaders toward progressive issues (e.g., climate, immigration, racial quotas), undermining traditional biblical stances.

Key Points:

• Seminaries and large church media outfits enforce Third Way orthodoxy, often pressuring pastors to avoid speaking on contentious social issues from the pulpit.
• Basham claims about 40% of newly trained pastors now “self-censor” on core issues, even when personally conservative.

Notable Quotes:

• "There’s a real divide between the ordinary evangelical in the pews...and where their leadership is." — Megan Basham [02:17]
• “What it functionally means is we punch right and coddle left.” — Megan Basham [03:08]
• "They will say things like climate change is not a political issue, it’s a gospel issue… but at the bottom, it’s politics." — Megan Basham [06:30]
• “Even though these are the guys that would tell you they’re conservatives.” — Megan Basham [08:33]

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3. Progressive Foundation Infiltration and Astroturf Movements

[09:24–13:42]

• Russell Moore and other high-profile evangelical leaders are named as working closely with Soros/Open Society, Zuckerberg, and left-leaning funders, often channeling money into organizations or research that aim to moderate or dilute evangelical political influence.
• Concrete case: The “Evangelical Immigration Table,” a Soros-funded group associated with the Southern Baptist Convention, advocated for progressive immigration policies (against building a border wall), and only recently severed ties after persistent grassroots pushback.

Memorable Quote:
"They are basically telling you if you want to be a good Christian, you need to set your politics to the side... take up this other set of policies—amnesty on the border, cap-and-trade, you must take the shot (COVID)."
— Megan Basham [12:17]

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4. Polling: Evangelicals, Abortion, and Political Engagement

[24:56–26:53]

• Mark Mitchell from Rasmussen offers polling data:
  • Atheists now have the strongest (if pro-choice) “worldview consistency” in America.
  • Evangelical Christians remain notably pro-life (by 30 points), but other denominations mirror general public sentiment on abortion.
  • A direct link exists: Those who want the church more involved in politics are far more likely to be pro-life.
• The “Third Way” is effective because by persuading churchgoers to ‘stay out of politics,’ it indirectly promotes left-leaning positions.

Notable Quote:
"People who say the church should stay out of politics are pro-choice by 40 points."
— Mark Mitchell [25:45]

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5. Foundation-Driven Curriculum and Influence on Evangelical Voting

[26:53–30:20]

• Basham describes how the Rockefeller and Hewlett Foundations funded “The After Party”—a political Bible study—disseminated to pastors as a nonpartisan alternative for election-season instruction.
  • Curriculum tells Christians abortion is “complex,” but mandates “racial justice” action—a subtle leftward push.
  • Top “Third Way” advocates receive prominent roles in major evangelical seminaries and universities (Wheaton, Baylor, Biola).

Quote:
"They made it very clear what they were trying to accomplish... Don't vote when it comes to abortion, but do vote to end racial injustice." — Megan Basham [29:03]

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6. Generational Shifts: Evangelicals & Support for Israel

[30:20–36:05]

• Mitchell and Basham detail rapidly changing evangelical attitudes toward Israel, especially among younger believers.
  • After the October 7th attacks in Israel, national support peaked but then sharply declined among under-30s, who now favor Palestinians (21% support Israel; 59% of seniors do).
  • LifeWay polling: Only 29% of evangelicals under 35 believe Jews are “God’s chosen people,” compared to 49% of all evangelicals.

Memorable Exchange:

Bannon: “Don’t bury the lead—give that last polling again. What?”
Basham: “49% of all evangelicals say Jews are God’s chosen people. But only 29% of those under 35 believe that.” [34:13]

• The change flows “bottom up”—younger students in seminaries are the main source of these shifting beliefs, not leadership.

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7. Evangelical Institutions: “A Cold Civil War”

[36:05–38:35]

• Bannon and Basham discuss generational conflict within evangelical institutions—older, more progressive or “comfortable” leadership vs. younger, reform-oriented members.
  • Rise of "Gig Eva": Independent critics (podcasts, blogs) challenging "Big Eva" (establishment evangelicalism) with massive followings.
  • Institutional “rot” and calls for reform echo broader conservative dissatisfaction with traditional organizations.

Notable Quote:
"There's a bit of a cold civil war going on right now in evangelicalism."
— Megan Basham [38:27]

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8. Broader Trends: Mainline Churches and Institutional Collapse

[39:22–40:55]

• Daniel Buck and Bannon reflect on the broader collapse in mainline Protestant denominations (Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist) due to progressive social doctrine—foreshadowing possible decline in evangelical institutions unless major reforms occur.

"They’ve weaponized every one of these institutions. Presbyterian Church fell, Episcopal Church fell, the Methodist Church’s probably going to die out in 10 or 20 years."
— Daniel Buck [40:07]

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9. J6 Prison Choir: Album Launch and American Storytelling

[44:40–51:09]

• Production update on the “J6 Prison Choir” album "Justice for All," featuring orchestral accompaniment and stories from J6ers.
  • Music as therapy and storytelling: Emotional testimony from jailed choir members about their incarceration.
  • Album and performances to debut at Amfest and be promoted across conservative media, reflecting the show’s blending of culture, politics, and activism.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• "There’s a real divide between the ordinary evangelical in the pews...and where their leadership is." — Megan Basham [02:17]
• "What it functionally means is we punch right and coddle left." — Megan Basham [03:08]
• "They will say things like climate change is not a political issue, it’s a gospel issue… but at the bottom, it’s politics." — Megan Basham [06:30]
• "They’re basically telling you if you want to be a good Christian, you need to set your politics to the side." — Megan Basham [12:17]
• "49% of all evangelicals say that they believe that the Jews are God's chosen people. But only 29% of those under 35 believe that." — Megan Basham [34:13]
• "There’s a bit of a cold civil war going on right now in evangelicalism." — Megan Basham [38:27]
• "They've weaponized every one of these institutions. Presbyterian...Episcopal...Methodist...gone." — Daniel Buck [40:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:06–01:30: Show open, Saudi Crown Prince arrival
• 02:17–13:42: Megan Basham on evangelical leadership & Third Way theology
• 24:56–26:53: Mark Mitchell on evangelical polling, worldview divide
• 26:53–30:20: Basham on foundation-funded political Bible curriculums
• 30:20–36:05: Israel/Palestine, generational polling, theological divides
• 36:05–38:35: Institutional erosion and rise of "gig eva"
• 44:40–51:09: J6 Prison Choir recording, music storytelling

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Conclusion

This War Room episode delivers a hard-hitting analysis of the ideological battles within American evangelicalism, exposing how philanthropic infiltration, subtle leadership “neutrality,” and generational divisions threaten its traditional political power. Shifts in attitudes about Israel, abortion, and institutional trust highlight the urgency for reform—and the depth of the “cold civil war.” The show also highlights Real America’s Voice’s cultural activism (J6 Choir) and ongoing engagement with shifting U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

Resource Links:

• Megan Basham: @JournalistMegan | “Shepherds for Sale” (Amazon)
• Mark Mitchell: Rasmussen Poll on X

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For more: Subscribe to Real America’s Voice, catch Bannon’s updates on Getter, and stay tuned for further coverage of evangelical polling and political realignment.

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Here's how I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people, the people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people like that go to share the big L Maga media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. War room here's your host, Stephen K. Banner. Okay, there's the establishing shot of the South Lawn. The crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, referred to as mbs is going to, is going to arrive to a very formal arrival at the White House. President will be there, going to have meetings all day, a bilat. And our own Brian Glenn tells us that they will allow media in there. So they'll probably be, I think probably around noon. So during the Charlie Kirk show we'll get to that. We'll be there at least for the, for the beginning presentations. It's gonna be a supposedly a 10 minute massive flyover. So we've called some audibles today. Some of the guests we had we're trying to juggle and make sure we can fit them in and get all the word out. Mark Mitchell, one of the top pollsters, Rasmussen, head of Rasmussen, is, is with us. We talked about the fourth turning. That wasn't bad filmmaking, was it? You like that? You're gonna love the film. Film is all about the 2008 crash. So it really got me involved in politics. Megan Basham joins us now, one of the top writers and analysts about the evangelical movement. Megan, first off, I was at a meeting with you a couple weeks ago and you. It kind of shocked me because I didn't know the details of about how woke part of the evangelical movement is and how that's growing. Can you describe that? And Mark Mitchell is going to jump in. He's got a bunch of questions for you also, ma'.

[C]

Am. Yeah, I think what people don't realize is there's a real divide between the ordinary evangelical in the pews going to church every Sunday and where their leadership is. So if you look at where evangelicals are politically, they are extremely conservative. They were Donald Trump's strongest supporters. They've been rightly called America's most powerful voting bloc by left wing outlets like the Atlantic. But there's been a really strong effort over the last decade, decade, 15 years, to try to move that all important evangelical voting block to the left. And so what you have seen is a lot of really large secular left foundations, NGOs, people like the Soros foundation, open society like Mark Zuckerberg's foundation, the Clinton foundation, the Rockefellers, pretty much all of the usual suspects pouring money into these evangelical front groups to try to move evangelicals to the left. And while it hasn't had the impact, I think, on the rank and file that they've been hoping for, it's been incredibly effective in the leadership class. So those dangled carrots have really done their work. So if you look at so much of the theologians, the seminary professors, they're all espousing something that's largely known as the Third Way, which means that Christians shouldn't get political, we should stand outside of politics, we shouldn't align with the left or right. But what it functionally means is we punch right and we coddle left. And so that's what you see from the evangelical leadership class, who has gotten so involved with so many of these secular left foundations.

[B]

Hang on, just take that again. It's called Third Way, and this is really taught in the seminaries. So explain Third Way again.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. So Third Way, it was really, I don't know if he coined the term, but it was a philosophy really promoted by the late theologian Tim Keller, who, who was incredibly influential in evangelical Protestant circles. He founded Redeemer Presbyterian in New York City, he founded a church planting network. And so he really became sort of the model and exemplar of this Third Way approach. And so it's a method of evangelism that says in order to save lost people, and for some reason, these idealized lost people are always progressives on the left. What Christians need to do is not take a political, political position and publicly align with either the right or the left. They should be sort of politically agnostic in order to draw people to Christ. But what was interesting is that even though this was what someone like Tim Keller espoused, it's not what he lived. Because while he sort of famously was not very outspoken about issues like abortion or marriage or transgenderism or the sort of things that are very clear biblically, he did take public positions opposing, for example, President Trump's border policies. So, you know, it was a funny way of saying, well, we're going to be outside Politics. And to be outside politics means we have to show that we are willing to promote certain leftist policies.

[B]

Is that had a. Has that had a big impact on the evangelical movement? I mean, is this third way. This is like 20%, 30%, 40%. What percentage. And what percentage of the seminaries? Because the seminaries is where it all starts.

[C]

Yeah. Hugely impactful. I would say it's been hugely effective. So really, for the last 10, 15 years, you have seen so many of these institutions, these evangelical institutions, where reputations are built. People at those are the places where they're platformed and where they grow their careers and where they become better known. So the incentive structure from these large platforms, places like the media organization right now, media that distributes sermons and church curriculum, they have almost required you to be third way or soft progressive in order to be welcomed onto their platforms. You also have the same thing in the seminaries. You have the professors, you have the faculty, you have the presidents pushing this third way idea. So that. This is why, you see, I believe, the huge split between the ordinary evangelical and basically between the laity and between the clergy. So the clergy has become increasingly welcoming and compromising with progressive positions while calling that being apolitical. I think that's a really important thing we need to understand is under this rubric, under this mask of we are being third way and we're not being political, what they actually end up doing is being political towards the left. So they will say that things like climate change is not a political issue, it's a gospel issue. So this is how they're saying, well, we're not being political. We're saying this is actually an important gospel issue. But at the bottom, it's politics. And it's not just politics. It's politics that's being brought into the church by left wing power brokers and their money.

[D]

What.

[B]

Jump in if you want. What percentage coming out of these seminaries of evangelical preachers or evangelical pastors are coming out of this kind of soft Progressive? Is that 10%, 20%? Because big churches. Yep.

[C]

Yeah. I would say as many as 40%. And what you have to understand is it's not just that if you ask the individual pastor, are you conservative, how would you vote in light of a pro life issue, or how would you vote in light of a transgender issue? They might tell you, oh, I'm a conservative. But the way this third way has worked is to make pastors feel that they cannot talk about those things from the pulpit. They cannot talk about those things in interviews, because so they might even tell you, yes, I'm politically conservative. But what they will do is, for example, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is the largest Protestant denomination in the US he claims to be a conservative, and yet right now he has a book out espousing the third way once again. And what he does is he says things like, Christians must use the slogan Black lives matter because that's a gospel issue. He advocated for things like instituting within the Southern Baptist Convention racial hiring, quotas and appointee quotas. So saying we're going to have two thirds of all our appointees be black or minorities or women. So this is how it works. Even though these are the guys that would tell you they're conservatives.

[B]

Hang on, you're blowing. My head's blown up. I come from the South. The Southern Baptist are, I thought, at least in the origin myth of the Bannard family, the Southern Baptists are the most conservative people around. You're telling me the Southern Baptist Convention, which is like their organization that ties the churches together, this guy's actually a third way guy that promotes this kind of progressive. How did that happen? The Southern Baptists. Aren't the Southern Baptists some of the most conservative, at least biblical religious folks that we have, Ma'. Am.

[C]

Well, and Steve, just so you know, that is why I spent so much time. I had a book about all of this New York Times bestseller, Shepherd's for Sale. And I focus heavily on the Southern Baptist because people think like you do. Wait a minute. Aren't the Southern Baptists Conservative? Yeah, 30 years ago they very much were. Now let me tell you what's happened in the meantime. Since then you have had, I would say these, these infiltrating leaders. And there has been a lot of them, people like Russell Moore, who was for a period of time the head of the lobbying arm, the policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention. And he's now one of the, you know, best recognized, never trump figures in the country. He's running Christianity Today now. But for years these guys were organizing what you would call evangelical astroturf front groups. So he was getting connected with people at the Soros foundation, at Open Society, getting connected with the Rockefeller philanthropy advisor. So he, everywhere he goes, for example, this figure, Russell Moore, was taking money from left wing foundations to do things like create evangelical, suppose evangelical grassroots.

[B]

Hang on one second, hang on a second, hang on. I just want to get nomenclature right. When you're going to the open Society in Soros. These are not. And you see what's happened in Hungary These are not simply secular, these are atheistic, hardcore neo Marxist organizations. This is why they go after you're telling me that a senior member, and Russell Moore is a renowned, never Trumper, I mean hates Trump, that while they were part of the Southern Baptist lobbying group or official part of the apparatus, they actually approached institutions like Soros and open society, people like this that are openly anti Christian and openly atheistic.

[D]

Ma'.

[C]

Am. Yes, well, I would say probably Soros approached them, but yes, that's exactly what happened. So Russell Moore in several instances, not just one, was involved with Soros funded organizations like the Evangelical immigration table. And he got the, he and his predecessor Richard Land got the Southern Baptist Convention involved with these Soros backed groups, also with Zuckerberg backed groups, with Gates backed groups. So yes, this was happening continually over the last decade or so. And so what you have seen is these organizations saying, for example, with Russell Moore and the erlc, you've seen something like the Democracy Fund, which again Marxist left wing Buddhist Pierre Omidyar of ebay founded that ngo. So they were funneling money into the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, that policy arm of the sbc, to do things like study how evangelicals engage politics. And then they produced a report saying evangelicals are too politically polarized. So then they would send materials into churches to say here's how you're going to make your church less politically polarized. And what that essentially means is you as a conservative need to pull your punches on your biblical convictions in the public square for the cause of Christ. So that's what's so insidious about how this works, is they are basically telling you if you want to be a good Christian, you need to set your politics to the side. And not only that, you, you need to take up this other set of policies, things like amnesty on the border, like cap and trade policies with climate change. You must take the shot. I mean during COVID we saw it.

[B]

In high relief, the evangelical immigration group that they stood up that were part of the Southern Baptist Convention. I take it that they were for building the wall in mass deportations. Was that their policy?

[C]

They were not. No, no, they were for taking down that wall.

[B]

So how did they get, is that still a part of the Southern Baptist Convention? Ma', Am, the Evangelical immigration just broke.

[C]

Ties with them last month. And I'm going to tell you what, Steve, it was a multi year fight from me, from the center for Baptist Leadership and others, bringing attention to the fact that this money is being funneled into church institutions in order to Shift evangelicals to, to the left. So we made a lot of noise. It took a lot of time, but they literally just broke ties with them last month.

[B]

Hey, Megan, can you hang on for a second? We're gonna go to a short break. We're trying to get more because we want to spend a bunch of time with you. This morning we got the, the Saudis showing up. In fact, I want to ask about evangelicals thinking and you've got some polling on, on Israel in the Middle east today is a very big deal. My understanding, and I don't want to get ahead of us here, but I, I don't think the Saudis have agreed to the Abraham Accord. I think that their weapons deals and some of these economic deals, which are supposed to be contingent upon that. I think we're going to get some rationale later about this, but I don't think they're part of the Abraham Accords. I think they're making it pretty clear that it's contingent upon a official Palestinian state. Now you're going to have a semi official one that came out of the UN Security Council meeting yesterday with the Turks, the, the Muslims, the Arabs united with the United States of America on this resolution on Gaza that basically sets up the international security force, which will be overseen by the Turks. Think about that for a second. General Allenby took Israel, freed Israel, I guess Jerusalem 100 years ago with Lawrence of Arabia and now giving it back to drove the Ottoman Turks out, drove them out of Damascus. Now we're giving it all back 100 years later. A lot going on, official state, state visit. I'm not sure. I don't know if it actually rises to a state dinner tonight, but we'll get it all done. Brian Glenn at the White House. Short commercial break Back in a moment.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[B]

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[D]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

Sign up for free and be part.

[B]

Of the new thing. Get her. I'm putting up stuff all day long over at Getter exclusively, so make sure you check it out. Get Our thoughts, military precision, your Naval Academy. When it says 11:00am Boom, you're supposed to hit your marks at 11:00am Supposed.

[D]

To be 10 minutes early.

[B]

10 minutes early. We're now 11. We're now 11, 7, 18. So we're going to find out who's later. Now we're going to Brian Glenn in a moment to the White House. The official big, big reception for the head of Saudi Arabia. Basically the head, the crown prince is going to be there today. Huge developments are talking about weapons deals, investment deals, artificial intelligence, all of it. Also the Abraham Accords. Our own Brian Glenn's at the White House. We go there momentarily. Daniel Buck joins us. By the way, a article, a piece from one of the audience just sent me about talking about everything's big in Texas, including the illegal aliens developments. I just sent it, Danielle. The last couple of days we've been talking about Patriot Mobile, how you guys on the political side stepped up and helped get these five seats. You were at the tip of the spear Glenn story and the team. But I keep telling people it's also the best mobile service out there. Walk us through. Why should you understand that you guys support people's values, Your grassroots Texas, your call center is in East Texas with American citizens on the other side. Why should people make the switch and why should they do it today?

[A]

Well, Glenn, it's because every one of you have a phone and every one of you care about America, about faith, family and freedom. And because we use the exact same network. So your phone is going to work perfectly. It's going to work exactly the same, actually, even better because we get priority service on the same major three networks and you get to support a company that's right here in America every month when you pay a cell phone bill. And so we started something really recently, actually, our Red, White and Blue Friday sale, and you're actually getting a free Samsung A16. You know, the big carriers, they often do these huge promotions around Black Friday and we decided, you know what, we want to offer that to everyday Americans to come on. And so, so Patriot Mobile has all three of the major carriers. You can keep your phone, you can keep your phone number or you can get a new phone, as I just mentioned. So that code for the free Samsung A16 is Friday 25. And as you mentioned, we have a call center in East Texas and you'll get to talk to an American you can understand who can talk about what's happening in the world. And I know everyone wants to do something right. Most people are sitting at home on their couch. They're worried about their families and what's happening in this country. And knowing that you can switch your cell phone provider, you can support faith, family and freedom, you can support things that align with your values.

[C]

Right?

[A]

So a portion of every single cell phone bill we give to the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, the sanctity of life, and our veterans and first responders. Just tonight, we're doing an event with an amazing veteran organization called Soldier Strong. This coming Saturday, we're doing one with Embrace Grace, which is a huge pro life group that works in churches all across this country to support single moms. So we're out there doing the hard work on the political side, also on the nonprofit side. But at the end of the day, we do that through cell phones. And so every one of you is watching. You have a family, you have a business, and we can provide the exact same coverage that you have now, but just through an amazing company that supports your values.

[B]

Give me the deal one more time. On the Samsung tell. I want people to know exactly what they have to do now. 972 patriots. The number tell them the war room sent you. You get a free month of, of service. But on the Samsung offer the red, white and blue. What do they do?

[A]

Yeah, so you call 972 Patriot, you tell them Bannon sent and then you ask for the red, white and blue Friday, which is our Black Friday sale, and you will get a free Samsung A16 phone when you basically just use Friday 25. You can do it online or you can do it by phone. And one of our amazing customer service reps would be happy to help you get you that phone just in time for the holidays.

[B]

Ma', Am. Danielle Buck from Patriot Mobile, our favorite company. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

[E]

Ma'.

[D]

Am.

[B]

Red, white and blue. Put in red, white and blue and put in Patriot 25. Get a 25%. Get the Samsung 16. Let's do it today. Friday. Are we coming right now?

[D]

Yeah, they're doing some fanfare.

[B]

Okay, let's go ahead. Let's go to the White House. Got a little fanfare for the, for the head of Saudi Arabia is perfect. Sam.

[C]

It.

[B]

It's.

[C]

It's it.

[B]

Okay, so the arrival of the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia in a very formal ceremony. Haven't seen that in a while. Even Macron didn't get that. The head of France. When they came for the. When they came for the. Remember that meeting where the president called their bluff and asked him what they were going to put up very important meeting today. I think by noon running a little late, but I think around the Charlie Kirk show you're going to have a bi lat with the crown prince in there and the President, you know, Brian Glenn tells me it's going to be open to questions. Megan Basham, one of the best reporters and authors on everything evangelical Mark Mitchell from Rasmussen while we've got some time because today, and I've been saying, hey, the Israel first crowd overplayed their hand and that's why you got this disaster. You have a two state solution right now coming out of the UN Security Council. But let's walk to where we got Megan, you've been doing some polling about this, right?

[D]

Yeah. Well I also want to talk about worldview and what the fourth turning tells us is that one of the reasons that we get in these crisis is because all of the institutions, they had a prior set of values fall apart. And not only are they falling apart, they're being co opted basically like she's talking about weaponized against the American.

[B]

So you did overall worldview polling of Christians?

[D]

Yeah, Evangelical Christians. They are extracting a heavy toll on America. So you can take a proxy. You know this is biblical doctrine. It's actually supposed to affect things like the way you vote. And so if you just look at something like, well are you pro choice or pro life? Believe it or not, the humans on in America with the strongest worldview right now are actually atheists. They know where they stand on that question. They are definitely 100% pro life. It's like 80 to 20 not pro life.

[B]

You mean pro choice? Yeah.

[D]

Excuse me. Yeah, and then we have, we have new.

[B]

If they're pro life, we got a scoop.

[D]

That's right next. Runners up are evangelical Christians. They're Pro Life by 30 points. But if you look at Catholics and Protestants, unfortunately it's pretty small spread. Protestants poll like general population on abortion. But we had another question that I thought was really, really stunning. This actually tells you that that third wave you're talking about has an impact on people. We asked, well should the church get more involved in politics or should the church stay out of politics? The people who say the church should get more involved in politics, pro life 30 points. The people who say the church should stay out of politics are pro choice, 40 points. So these people are literally looking at their worldview and morphing Christianity around it. It's supposed to be the other way around. And I don't know how you fix.

[B]

It, but it shows you. Meghan Jump in here because I think that shows me that the source people were very smart when they tried to get this third way into the seminaries, et cetera, because they realized if they can get this down into the pews, people are going to say, well, not just I don't back Trump, I'm going to stay out of politics. Because it's not biblical. Correct.

[D]

This is their best weapon. There's a one to one almost between where people stand on abortion and how they vote.

[B]

Meghan, your thoughts?

[C]

Yeah. If you can make evangelicals who, you know, when we met a couple of weeks ago, Steve, that was my description that I have seen others use, that they are the lone bulwark. That is true. When you look at all of this polling on any of these left wing priorities, you know, things like ensuring abortion up to birth, like ensuring, you know, these onerous authoritarian climate change policies, amnesty, the only thing standing in the way of them in almost every case is that evangelical vote. So, you know, it's not surprising that they're going after them, that it has been effective. And I can give you a really specific example that just popped into my mind as I was standing, as I was sitting here watching President Trump standing there and thinking how close we came to him not being in the Oval Office this term. And one of the things that was done was something called the After Party. For example, that was a political Bible study that was funded by the Rockefeller foundation and the Hewlett foundation, which is one of the largest funders of abortion in the world. They funded this political Bible study by David French, New York Times columnist, by again, Russell Moore, and by a Democratic.

[B]

By the way, by the way, let's refer to him, let's refer to him, him as President David French, since we already ran for president against Trump. Continue on.

[C]

So they created this political Bible study called the After Party. And their pitch to pastors was literally, hey, listen, we're going into an election season. So they released this back in August, prior to. So in 2023, heading into an election year, they released it and they told pastors, listen, it's really awkward for you to talk to your people about politics. We get that. So you don't have to just bring in our curriculum, our secretly left wing funded curriculum into your church. And we will disciple your pastors on politics. We will disciple your people on politics. And so the content of this Bible study was essentially telling Christians that we don't know how to vote when it comes to abortion. It's very confusing. It's a complex issue. If anybody tells you how you should vote when it comes to abortion, you should run from that person. Because of course, that's the issue that keeps conservatives and evangelicals voting with Republicans. Well, at that point, they then turn in a later episode and say, but as a Christian, you are obligated to use your vote to ensure that racial, alleged racial injustice is addressed throughout the country. So I mean, even though they said this is a nonpartisan Bible study, they made it very clear what its purpose was. Don't vote when it comes to abortion, but do vote to end racial justice, injustice. So that made it pretty clear what they were trying to accomplish with this left wing funded Bible study. And that kind of thing has been taking place all over the evangelical landscape. And so David French, Russell Moore, Curtis Chang, the creators of this Bible study, they are welcomed to the seminaries, they are welcome to Christian Lip Service University to be visiting professors to have a chair. They're welcome to Wheaton College, which is evangelical Christian. They're welcome to Baylor, they're welcome to Biola. So all of these things are being brought in. And yes, I would say it does have a trickle down effect, but it has first impacted that pastoral class.

[B]

Let's go. I want to go. Where we got you is the situation with Israel, because today has got to be a wake up call. I mean, the Saudis are not going to sign the Abraham Accord. It looks like they may get a weapons deal, may get other economic deals. They're open to it, but they're playing hardball that unless you have a guaranteed Palestinian state, two state solution, what you're polling on evangelicals in Israel?

[D]

Well, we don't have the breakdown by evangelicals, but if you talk to people who know this more than me, evangelical Christians were kind of like one of the vectors of this very Zionist marriage of evangelical Christianity. And it's one of the bases of support that they've had. But when the fourth turning happens, what happens is everybody completely realigns, numbers change drastically and we're seeing that. This is why I started screaming about the fourth turning was the way the numbers on Israel changed. First off, after October 7th, Israel had the biggest numbers it's ever had, almost 60% support versus less than 20% against Palestinian. But if you look back in our polling all the way going back to 2007, Israel had very high favorability numbers. But the most important thing was that there was no difference between the young people and the old people. People across the age spectrum had no difference in opinion about Israel. Well, all of a sudden that changed really Freaking big. Just a couple of months ago when we asked our tracking question, who do you support more, Israel or Palestine? And with the people under 30, it's Palestine. Now Israel's only 21%, but with people over 65, it's 59% Israel. And so what you're seeing is that people are now basically sorting into two different mindsets and it's because they're consuming news different and they're rebelling against traditional older fourth turning values.

[B]

I've got Rabbi Walecki is going to join us in studio today at 5 to discuss this in the Saudi Arabia trip. Also very honored to have Yaakov Katz is going to spend the entire hour with me at six o' clock. And we're going to do the part two while Israel slept. We did the intelligence failure a couple weeks ago. We're going to do the IDF in Gaza. Megan, about that polling, what are your thoughts about where the Christians overall and evangelicals stand on the topic of Israel?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you're definitely seeing an extremely uncomfortable fight. I would say that what's been reflected in the larger conservative movement is happening in a microcosm among evangelicals. So as Mitchell was saying there, we are seeing younger evangelicals moving away from this idea that the Jews are God's chosen people. So you do have theology playing into this a lot. You have an older generation that believes in something called dispensationalism, which is that very roughly, I'm not a theologian, but essentially that God's promises to Israel hold and that they will be able to come into the kingdom via some later provision that we don't yet know what that will be. And then what we have are those who believe that Israel is not God's chosen people, but that the church now represents what Israel was in the Old Testament. So those promises that were to go to Israel in the Old Testament have now been absorbed by the church. Those are now put onto the church to their credit. So, you know, it's a very dicey theological argument that's happening and you see it in a very strong split between older and younger evangelicals. I do have some direct polling on evangelicals that comes out of Lifeway, and they're finding that while 50% of all evangelicals do believe that Jews are God's chosen people, only 29% of respondents of evangelicals under 35 believe that. So that's a pretty strong split. Hang on. And I think you're going to continue to see that play out full stop.

[B]

That's a bombshell hit Me give that again because that doubles. Hit that last polling again. Don't bury the lead. What?

[C]

Right. So the lead is that 49% of all evangelicals say that they believe that the Jews are God's chosen people. But only 35, only 29% of those under 35. Five believe that. So that is a really strong generational split and maybe another headline for that reason. I do think you're seeing Israel getting concerned about shoring up that evangelical support because we also saw stories in the last week about Israel's foreign ministry planning to spend a few million dollars in promotional and PR materials for evangelicals generally. Try to.

[B]

My buddy Brad Parscale. I think Brad and the guys at Salem registered as foreign agents. I think they're upfront about Right before I let you go, Meghan, is that also coming out of the seminar? When you go to the seminaries right now, if you walked in for the faculty and the debate among the students, is that break. Is this because it's coming out of the seminaries or is this driven by the Tucker Carlson's and Megyn Kelly's the way we talk here in the Worm is that coming? Is it coming from a secular source or is that now one of these issues that are bubbling up in these seminaries and then that's promulgated out to the flocks in these mega churches, Ma'? Am.

[C]

No, I would say this is a reverse situation. So what you have in the seminaries and the seminary leadership is still that very strong support for Israel. You do still have some of that dispensationalist theology. And the split is that I would say the students are the ones who are questioning this. So once again, you're seeing that under 35, the younger evangelicals. So I mean, everything you're seeing that's a fourth turning. Yeah. In the broader conservative landscape is happening even more strongly in the evangelical subculture. So I mean, it is a strong battle going on between generations.

[B]

Part of this rightful part of this is about institutional rejuvenation or institutions. You know, some people say, burn it all down, let's build it back up. The evangelical church, different than the mainstream Protestant and the Catholic has never really been been institution centric. It's been Jerry Falwell now, he built amazing institution that turned out to be Liberty Baptist, now Liberty University, Pat Robertson, the same thing. People built these institutions, but it was always individuals building solo institutions instead of something like the Anglican Church or the Church of England or the Catholic Church. Are you seeing this now in this fourth turning, even the institutions that have been built, the seminaries like Wheaton College, are they under assault like so many of the mainline Protestant churches and the Catholic Church are really under assault with this institutional kind of rot. And you're seeing young people say, hey, there gotta be major reforms, there gotta be major changes.

[C]

Yes, that's absolutely what you're seeing. So, you know, as we've been talking about Southern Baptist, I can tell you there has been an absolute fight for what you might call the soul of the Southern Baptist Convention. So there is the younger, more conservative, reformed, you might call them, rabble rousers who are trying to push for these reforms. And you have the older guard who are very established in their comfortable, I would say, you know, soft, progressive, welcoming position. They don't want to be challenged to say, hey, why aren't we doing a better job bringing our biblical values into the public square? Why are we not standing for these things more strongly? Why are we partnering with all of these secular left organizations who want to stifle Christians voices in the public square? So you are absolutely seeing that so split. And I don't think it's going to go away in any sense. Just really quickly. If you know who Carl Truman is, he's a professor at Grove City College, a well known Christian evangelical writer. He did this piece lamenting just recently in First Things, the fact that the younger people are no longer respecting, quote, unquote, big eva, meaning big evangelicalism, the institution institutions. Instead, he says, what we now see is the rise of gig eva. So those are the critics, these are the people who start blogs, who start podcasts, and they are becoming incredibly influential and gaining huge followings. You're seeing a lot of these podcasts that are critical of the big evangelical institutions, drawing, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of subscribers. So I would call, I don't think it's too far to say there's a bit of a cold civil war going on right now in evangelicalism.

[B]

Wow, Megan, extraordinary. Where do people get particularly Shepherds for Sale, which goes into a lot of this, where they get your books, where they get your podcast, where they get everything about you. Ma'. Am.

[C]

Yeah. Thank you. So you can buy my book, Shepherds for Sale, which presents all of the receipts for all of this money going to all of these evangelical institutions, how it's moving churches, how it's moving ministries. And so you can get that at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, anywhere you buy books. And you can find me right there on Xegbasham and on Twitter, excuse me, on Instagram, @JournalistMegan Basham and I write at Daily Wire and you can find me several times a week on our Morning Wire podcast.

[B]

Thank you, ma'. Am. Appreciate you. Great work.

[C]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[B]

Thoughts?

[D]

It's about order. These kids want to return to order and they don't care how they get it. And I've seen wild things. I've seen these independent atheistic streamers who are like, we need some Christianity up in here. And you might not like some of the things Nick Fuentes says. I think he's a troll and the stuff that he says is to get attention. But he makes a better case for Catholic Christianity in America than most politicians do. And so it's happening everywhere. These institutions, I saw the, the chaos that was brought in the Methodist Church just, just recently. And they're they doing it in the Baptist church.

[B]

What do you mean on the Methodist Church? You saw that personally?

[D]

Well, they've weaponized every one of these institutions. Presbyterian Church fell, Episcopal Church fell, the.

[B]

Old traditional mainline Protestant churches.

[D]

So they just won in the Methodist Greater conference in 2024. And you know, the church had to have a talk, congregation got together and they were kind of confused why we had this talk, but the church had to vote on what is biblical, you know, gay pastors, non traditional marriage. And everybody's like, well like, why is this happening? Meanwhile, if you look at the Methodist book of social doctrine, it reads like a leftist ngo, a political action committee essentially. And so they've taken an organization, it's probably going to die, probably going to die out in 10 or 20 years. You know, the final boomers who go to Methodist churches and who still are weathering this complete co opting of this organization that was a big part of American culture very, very long time, it's going to die and the new institutions have to be rebuilt.

[B]

That's a fourth turning, by the way, on Nick being a troll. All I say, and I think we're trying to figure out how to play it, you see, have you seen the Dinesha? Alex Jones sponsored a debate between Nick Fientes and Dinesh d' Souza about Israel. It was a full takedown. It was just, he took him apart brick by brick because the kid, you know, it clearly studied, knew the information, brought the receipts, brought facts. And you had the kind of old guard, just wants us to throw out this kind of bizarro, you know, disconnected parts of the Old Testament and it does it to a modern audience. If you're going to make that argument, you've got to come in and go bang, bang, bang and make it connected to today. Otherwise, it just doesn't make any sense.

[D]

That's just as convoluted as when somebody in the establishment Republican Party tries to, to explain to you how, no, this time conservatism will win. Same kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's all conservative ink. Conservative Inc. Is not going to, you know, particularly with the facts today, Conservative Inc. Never won. And in fact, anytime, anytime it did, like Reagan is an outsider. As soon as he got in, it's surrounded by the Bush guys, right, Trying to always tap it down. And they just, what they ended up being is the Washington generals to the progressives, Harlem Globetrotters. You're just there. It's probably performative. You're, you're not, you're supposed to lose. You're just trying to try to make it some sort of, some sort of game. Hang on for a second. We're going to take, let's take a commercial break and we're going to go to something extraordinary happening down at Real America. Voice in. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm going to wait for it and come back after the break. Thank you. I got a producer that's on things, wakes up every now and again, goes, hey, you got. I got it, bro. That's. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do a couple reads after, after the break, we're going to go down to Real America's Voice in our Palm Beach, West Palm beach studio, actually, maybe next door, that we're doing it. You may have heard the other day that the J6 prison choir is doing an album. It's going to be put out, produced and put out by Real America's Voice. We're going to put that out, I think on the eve of or the day before, two days before January 6th at Amfest this year. And unfortunately, Amfest is sold out. So we'd love to be able to get more War Room Posse tickets, but as you can imagine, just absolutely sold out. Charlie KIRK In Turning Point's Amfest, that starts, I think, the 18th in Phoenix. We're going to take one of these songs, the first song they're producing, which I think we're going to see part of it today, and it's going to be released at amfest. So the first song is going to be Amfest. The album is going to be on the Eve of J. This is the J6 prison choir, which was so moving about every night they would sing. And of course, Cash Patel was able to work with the Producers down there and get the President excited about it and put out. It was a massive hit. We're going to return there in a moment and get it. Mark Mitchell's in studio with him. We want to thank Meghan Basham, Charlie Kirk and the team I think are going to pick it up at where they're going to pick up a new but I believe you're to going. Going to see a B lad. I think we're going to go into the Oval Office with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia and the President of these United States. Short commercial break. Back in a moment. Even better. They're at a record. They're at LJ's studio in Miami. Man, how, how hot is that? We're going to Miami. LJ and Dan tell us about it. The J6 prison choir talk to us about the album, the song. What are we going to hear? I got to tell you, Rob Sig, who's an old cable dog and started Rev, one of the best guys I know in this industry. He is so. He's so bored with cable but he's so excited about this record label and what you guys are doing. So lj, Dan, take it away.

[E]

So no, we're totally excited about it too. I may be more excited about it than Rob, but today we are adding the orchestral instruments to the re recorded version of justice for All. So very much like what you heard while MBS was pulling up to the White House. That beautiful orchestra we're going to be adding today.

[F]

We're gonna have violin, cello and viola. They're gonna be accompanying a beautiful piano part and we have all the J6 choir singing behind and it was quite a great experience to be a part of that.

[E]

And of course we'll have the President's pledge of allegiance interpolated just like the original.

[B]

So you, you layer this in. You've got the, you got the pr, you got the prison choir itself. They do the singing. You then bring in the orchestration or you layer that in and then on then the last thing you layer in is the President himself.

[E]

Yeah, correct. President's vocals.

[F]

Probably those vocals will come in after. Then we do some additional production just to make it all come together. All the mixing effects and kind of try to paint a beautiful picture because we want it to sound a little different than the original while having still a traditional classic approach with the orchestral and just the piano as opposed to the original recording.

[E]

I mean Steve, the sonic quality on this one is insane. The original one was certainly a tear jerker for all of us. Sorry, I lost my headphone there. It was a tear jerker for us. But this one is more uplifting.

[B]

The reason that it was a tearjerker. You actually took. You actually took that from actually the prison itself, right? I mean, that's. They would sing this every night. So it was the. It was. So you took that here. You're here. You're going to have them as free men and women actually singing. Correct.

[E]

Well, what we did so there, we cut their vocals already. So the original choir was 20 members. About two months ago, we flew 40 individuals down and we recorded them in Criteria Studios, a very famous studio. The Eagles did Hotel California there. Bob Marley recorded there. James Brown did I Feel Good. You've got countless Justin Bieber albums. Justin Timberlake, very, very famous studio. And they were very nice enough to accommodate us to work there. So we brought 40 individuals there. So now the choir has expanded from 20 to 40 because they're no longer. We don't have to squeeze them into one little room to capture them through a cell phone. So the, the sonic quality is amazing. Get excited because this is going to be a really, really big one. It's going to sound much better than the original. And I think it's time to celebrate. You know, the work is not necessarily done for the J6ers. I think a lot of them are still struggling. I actually, in fact, I know a lot of them are still struggling, but this is what's going to help them. More music. What do you mean?

[B]

What do you mean? What do you mean? Music's therapy. What do you mean they're still struggling?

[E]

Guide him.

[B]

What do you mean they're still struggling?

[E]

Well, I mean, Danny, you can speak to this as well. When we were in the studio about two months ago, I had about 20 of them do spoken word and just tell us their stories about what took place in prison. And I had not met these people in person until that day. I had been in communication with a lot of them. But the stories that I heard, I mean, we had. The entire control room was crying. One individual showed me his hands and his finger was going the complete opposite direction. I said, what the hell happened? He goes, well, the police officer stomped on my foot and they refused to fix it. So these are, these are the kind of stories that I don't think the American public knows and they deserve to know. And we're going to get that out for them on January 6th.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

And to elaborate a little bit more, you're talking about fathers, you know, hard working Americans that were separated from their families and to hear their testimonies of what they went through for me as a producer was very moving and definitely, you know, was a privilege and an honor to be there to help put together the. The choir arrangement. And you guys are going to enjoy it. It sounds really good.

[B]

Where can people go and hear the music? We got to bounce and got to toss back to the White House because the Saudi prince is there. Where can people go to hear this? Or can we hear some of it right now?

[E]

Can we hear some of it right now? I don't think it's possible.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

The technology in the room, where.

[B]

Where can people go? Where can people go to hear what you guys have put together?

[E]

Well, we've got that little sizzle that you played last week when I was on air with you. If we had more time, I would have loved to have played you a little bit more of that and some of the re record of justice for All. But unfortunately we don't. But we will be capturing some more content and I would say stay tuned for on Rap Socials. We'll post it up on there.

[B]

Maybe we'll get it back this afternoon or something. We'll check with you guys as soon as we bounce here live. Guys, social media, LJ and Dan. Where do people get you?

[E]

So I'm on Truth Social. I'm just at LJ Instagram at LJ Fino on X. I don't have my own X account but my record label is FC and as I said before, just follow. By the way, we're looking for followers Real America's music on Instagram. We're growing that account now. Stay tuned with the Real America's voice social platforms.

[F]

And then Danny and for the Pushers music group, just the Pushers. That's our production crew. We help a lot of conservative Christians in their productions and music across the country. You could find us at he Pushers on Instagram.

[B]

Thanks guys. By the way, guys. And the boomer in me is going to come out. But when you say James Brown in the. In the Hotel California, right, With the Eagles. And then you add Justin Bieber and Justin Tim. No, no, no, no. You got sacred. You got a sacred spot.

[E]

Well, you know, you got. You've got stars from every decade that hyper recorded there.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

For the young crowd who may or may not be listening. Had to throw in some beaver. But trust me, I'm a bigger fan of the Eagles and James Brown and Bob Marley as well.

[B]

Definitely Bob Marner, man. Amazing. Also the J6 squire is going to do it. Social media. We got to bounce. Mark, Mitchell, thanks for being here for us.

[D]

Where people go, it's great. Rasmussen underscore poll on Twitter and at Honest Pollster and check us out on YouTube as well. Rasmussen underscore poll.

[B]

I really want to get Mitchell, Megan and you together. And I want to think about doing a special with you two and talk about where Christianity is, what the numbers show us. I think we'll do a new poll, something. Could I work with you afterwards? Birch, go. I want to thank Birch. Gold take your phone out. Text Ban in 989-898 Ultimate Guide for Investing Gold and Precious Metals. We're going to toss it now to the Charlie Kirk Show. We'll be back at 5. Rabbi Will Licky will be in studio. I got cats while Israel slept at 6:00'. Clock. Stick around today.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.