THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON (EP. 5058)

Summary

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Real America’s Voice: The War Room with Stephen K. Bannon

Episode 5058 – January 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on ongoing political, economic, and cultural battles shaping America in 2026. Host Stephen K. Bannon leads a wide-ranging discussion with prominent guests, focusing on the Trump administration’s economic policies, regulatory reform, welfare fraud controversies in Minnesota, American manufacturing, and Texas’ legislative response to Sharia law concerns. The unifying themes: American sovereignty, economic revival, and a call for robust action against what the speakers frame as systemic abuses and elite complacency.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Minnesota’s Welfare Fraud, National Security & Treasury Crackdown

[02:15–05:24, 27:00–30:36]

• Welfare to Wire Transfers: U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant details steps to curb public assistance fraud—especially cash being wired abroad, potentially funding terrorist groups.

  • Lowering suspicious activity monitoring threshold from $10,000 to $3,000 for wire transfers out of Hennepin and Ramsey Counties.
  • Requiring anyone wiring money via money service businesses (MSBs) to declare public assistance status.
  • Policy: If someone is on assistance and wiring money overseas, their benefits will be reconsidered or investigated for fraud.

  Quote:

  “You cannot wire money out of the country [if you’re on public assistance]. Our generosity has been taken advantage of.”
  – Scott Besant (02:15)

• Accountability and National Security:
  Speakers connect welfare fraud to broader issues of national security, referencing Al Shabaab, Iran, and misuse of funds intended for vulnerable Americans.

  Quote:

  “Our generosity is funding Al Shabaab in Iranian interests. It could be.”
  – Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison (02:57)

• Enforcement:
  IRS criminal investigations to trace funds, crackdown on fraudulent LLCs, and making Minnesota a model for national anti-fraud efforts.

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2. Trump Economic Policies & Their Impact

[05:34–17:15, 19:04–24:08, 32:09–44:35]

• Economic Turnaround and Revival of Manufacturing:
  Scott Besant provides an inside look at business sentiment in Minnesota, touting strong support from small manufacturers and entrepreneurs for Trump’s trade, tax, and deregulatory efforts.

  Memorable Moment:

  “Spontaneous combustion—people started chanting USA! … That is for the MAGA movement. That is for the Trump presidency.”
  – Scott Besant (07:43)

• Trade Policy Successes:
  Tariffs framed as pivotal—boosting exports, shrinking the deficit, not raising consumer prices.

  Quote:

  “Exports up 30%, imports down 30%, smallest trade deficit we’ve had in decades.”
  – Stephen K. Bannon (15:00)

  “The Wall Street Journal … can’t stand the President’s policies… Everything they have stood for is crumbling.”
  – Scott Besant (12:51)

• Three-legged Stool: Trade, Tax Cuts, Deregulation:
  Deregulation highlighted as equally essential, enabling new investment and jobs, with sector-specific examples (home products, RVs).

  • Immediate tax expensing, deregulation in energy, and attacking regulatory barriers from EPA and elsewhere.
  • Fast-tracked trade deals contrasted with slow, ineffective past agreements.

• Impact on Working Americans:
  Early tax season; anticipated $100–$150 billion in tax refunds to working Americans in Q1 2026 due to “no tax on tips, overtime, Social Security, auto deductibility of American-made cars.”

  Quote:

  “We’re holding spending flat and we are going to grow our way out of this debt problem.”
  – Scott Besant (20:04)

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3. Housing Affordability & Corporate America

[24:08–27:00]

• Private Equity/Funds in Real Estate:
  President Trump and Treasury intend to curb large private equity firms from buying up single-family homes, thus making housing fairer and reducing corporate tax advantages over individual homeowners.

  Quote:

  “Markets are made by the marginal buyer… we want to make it fair for everyday Americans.”
  – Scott Besant (24:52)

• Energy and Big Oil Policy:
  Trump’s focus on energy dominance, lower prices, and leveraging wildcatters and majors (not just Big Oil) in places like Venezuela.

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4. American Manufacturing: From Tariffs to Small Shop Renaissance

[32:09–44:35]

• External Revenue Service & Tariffs:
  John Gardner underscores the philosophical and practical aims of moving away from income tax toward tariffs as the “founder’s vision”—taxing imports rather than American wages.

  Notable Historical Tie-in:

  “The Founding Fathers never intended for the citizen to be an indentured servant…”
  – John Gardner (32:51)

• Cultural Roots and Small Producers:
  Gardner warns against the cultural drift toward “unilateral free trade” privileging large corporates and eroding the patriotic, self-sufficient backbone of American manufacturing.

  Quote:

  “Karl Marx encouraged free trade … because he thought free trade would hasten the fall of capitalism.”
  – John Gardner (38:43)

• Small Manufacturer Bottleneck:
  Structural challenges for small manufacturers—need for better access to capital, lack of tailored SBA support, “America first” policies must focus on the sub-50-employee shops that make up 90% of the sector.

  Quote:

  “We need to do something now to get capital to the smaller manufacturers...”
  – John Gardner (42:50)

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5. Texas, Sharia Law, and Political “Theater”

[46:12–53:59]

• Sharia Law Legislation “Gaslighting”:
  Texas Rep. Brian E. Harrison critiques the Texas legislature’s failure to pass an explicit Sharia law ban, calling out performative gestures and exemptions in supposed “bans.”

  Quote:

  “Texans don’t want rhetoric. They want results.”
  – Brian E. Harrison (46:47)

  “Texas hasn’t banned Sharia law, but we could.”
  – Brian E. Harrison (47:28)

• Urgency and Oversight:
  Argues for immediate oversight hearings, more transparency, and direct action. Warns of the dangers of unchecked migration and ideological complacency in both Texas and DC (“the Duma”).

  Quote:

  “We need less theater, more action, more results.”
  – Brian E. Harrison (49:13)

• Action Plan:
  Plans to formally request public hearings from legislative leadership; makes a public call for grassroots mobilization.

  Quote:

  “The only way we’ve been able to deliver real conservative victories… is when we hold the establishment’s feet to the fire.”
  – Brian E. Harrison (49:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |------------|---------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:15 | Scott Besant | “You cannot wire money out of the country [if you’re on public assistance]. Our generosity has been taken advantage of.” | | 05:07 | Stephen K. Bannon | “This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people.” | | 07:43 | Scott Besant | “…people started chanting USA! … That is for the MAGA movement. That is for the Trump presidency.” | | 15:00 | Stephen K. Bannon | “Exports up 30%, imports down 30%, smallest trade deficit we’ve had in decades.” | | 20:04 | Scott Besant | “We’re holding spending flat and we are going to grow our way out of this debt problem.” | | 32:51 | John Gardner | “The Founding Fathers never intended for the citizen to be an indentured servant…” | | 38:43 | John Gardner | “Karl Marx encouraged free trade … because he thought free trade would hasten the fall of capitalism.” | | 46:47 | Brian Harrison | “Texans don’t want rhetoric. They want results.” | | 49:13 | Brian Harrison | “We need less theater, more action, more results.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:15] – Secretary Besant’s overview on welfare, fraud, and new treasury enforcement.
• [07:43] – Besant describes public reaction in Minneapolis; economic optimism.
• [12:51] – Critique of business media economics reporting.
• [20:04] – Three-legged stool: trade, taxes, deregulation.
• [27:00] – Drive to curb welfare fraud, wire transfers, and implications for Somali community.
• [32:51] – John Gardner on the External Revenue Service and America’s manufacturing roots.
• [46:12] – Brian Harrison on Sharia law legislative theater in Texas; calls for action.
• [49:43] – Harrison’s call for “holding the establishment’s feet to the fire.”

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Overall Tone and Style

The discussion is combative, unapologetically populist and nationalist, and driven by both a sense of urgency and contempt toward perceived establishment inaction and media bias. There is a strong focus on American values as defined by the MAGA coalition: sovereignty, productivity, security, and direct democracy through grassroots activism. The tone features both frustration with the status quo and optimism that the Trump agenda is yielding tangible gains.

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Resources & Where to Follow

• Scott Besant:
  “Treasury X account at @SecretaryUSTreasury … posting a lot of our findings…” (30:21)
• John Gardner:
  “JohnGardnerauthor.com and on X, Getter, Instagram @JohnGardnerVOH” (44:14)
• Brian E. Harrison:
  “@BrianEHarrison on X and VoteBrianHarrison.com” (53:41)

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Summary for Non-Listeners

If you missed this episode, you’ll walk away with a clearer picture of the current MAGA policy prescription: aggressive enforcement on welfare fraud, bold economic nationalism via tariffs and deregulation, and a call for not just legislative rhetoric but real results, especially on hot-button cultural issues in Texas. Guest segments offer in-depth, sometimes polemical perspectives, providing both policy detail and political argumentation, always boiling down to a consistent message: American sovereignty and productivity must be restored through action, not talk.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

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[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

So we're lowering that to 3,000 and we're also targeting the two counties here and we're going to do enhanced surveillance and from now on anyone who wires money out from one of these money service businesses has to check a box saying whether they are on public assistance. And if you are on public assistance, we are going to start pushing that. You cannot wire money out of the country.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

What if they lie and they don't tell us public assistance?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Well, then that's a crime.

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

Why not a federal form?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

We're going to follow it up and we are going to push that. You can no longer do that. The American people. Our generosity has been taken advantage of.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

Our generosity is funding Al Shabaab in Iranian interests. It could be.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Well, the money.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

This is really bad.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

The money is supposed to go for alleged asylum seekers and their families and children. And if you were wiring the money out of the country, one of two things must be true. You are getting too much money and your benefits should be cut or you are part of this conspiracy. Where did that money come from? We're going to find it out. That's what treasury does. IRS has a group called Criminal Investigations.

[Trump Administration Spokesperson]

President Trump is committed to restoring accountability to put Minnesota back on the right track. Under President Trump's leadership, the entire administration is focused on delivering results for the American people. Our citizens have a right to know that their tax dollars are not being diverted to fund acts of global terror or to fund luxury cars for fraudsters. Democratic Governor Tim Waltz has allowed welfare programs and fraud to spiral out of control. Out of control? Billions of dollars intended for hungry children, housing for disabled seniors and services for children with special needs were diverted to.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

People who cheated the system, some of.

[Trump Administration Spokesperson]

Whom are not even American citizens. At treasury, we are thoroughly investigating the fraud, including funds sent to Somalia through money service businesses which provide financial services outside of a formal bank.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

And where do people like that go.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

To share the big lie?

[Trump Administration Spokesperson]

MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

War ROOM here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Saturday 10th January year of alert 2026 we're going to get to in a moment. What is happening in Minneapolis. Also Grapevine, Texas. This amazing conference we had yesterday topped off by Gert Wilders, Glenn Beck and myself, Grant Stinchfield and others about the ismailization of Texas. We're going to get to all that in a moment and also talk to you about the launch of War Room Texas on Monday. But first, the Secretary of Treasury joins us. You know, I talk about last night in my speech in Grapevine, the tale of three cities. Tehran, Minneapolis and Grapevine, Texas. But Scott, with you, Mr. Secretary, it's really two tales of one city. We had you there and we covered this wall to wall. Your, your amazing speech, I think to the economic club to talk about the economy. Then you toured various factories, you had roundtables, you stayed there for two days. You, you had the great Laura Ingram out there with you, incredible interview. And Laura showing enormous bravery, you know, dealing with that mob out there. But can you just give me your assessment? And right there at the end, spontaneous combustion in a restaurant where the good citizens of Minneapolis, I think are telling us, hey, this is the guy, that's Trump's guy on the economy. And we're kind of liking what we're seeing. And I don't remember, I think the first time in the history of the republic, maybe it happened at Hamilton, back at the beginning. I don't remember anybody in any audience or just customers. Basic Americans, decent Americans breaking out in USA Chance when a Secretary of treasury walks into a restaurant, just tell us the two tales of one city because we saw following you, one. And then we had the Pasovics out there and Julio and others with these riots. And then last night couldn't have gotten more dangerous. A thousand antifa surrounded the Hilton, broke into the hotel. I mean, really kind of potentially wanted to hold the ICE agents hostage. Your thoughts, sir?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Steve, good morning. Good to be with you. And look, what we're seeing out here is what's going on in larger America. It's a tale, it's a tale of two Americas. We've got people who gather for college football every Saturday, go to church on Sunday. And then we got these protesters who have nothing to do except attack ICE agents, whether it's in Portland or Minneapolis. And I can tell you there is this big silent majority, big silent majority. When I was in Maynard's restaurant on Lake Wayzata or Lake Minnetonka, and spontaneous combustion people started channing usa and that wasn't for Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary. That is for the MAGA movement. That is for the Trump presidency. They love what's happening. They see that the economy is getting better. They see that President Trump has saved this country and they like his policies. He secured the border, he's made free trade, fair trade. And now this year we are going to see the economic benefits and it couldn't be different. Minnesota nice was taken advantage of. My sense is that the people of Minnesota, having been very generous, are now feeling abused and used and they want answers.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Mr. Secretary, I noticed in the time I've known you as a friend, you've been a colleague, then a contributor here, known you for years and then going to be treasury secretary running this huge hedge fund I want to go through. What message did you tell the business leaders and the companies? And you're a listener. What feedback did you get from the business community of Minneapolis and the different entrepreneurs you went around and saw? What feedback did you get? Any mid course guidance, any recommendations? What did the folks at Minnesota tell you?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Well, folks out of Minnesota, the business people here we are in the great American industrial heartland and it's the exact kind of businesses that President Trump is trying to bring back. There are gigantic family owned businesses here. And Tim Waltz and almost a generation of Democratic politicians have taken advantage of the fact that these folks are not mobile, that they, their families have been here. Maybe multi generational, maybe they moved here in the 70s, 80s, 90s. Up until the early 2000s, Minnesota was business friendly. Now it has the second highest corporate tax rate in America. They are feeling besieged and they think that the government isn't on their side. I was at a very large home products factory factory called Cambria and the owner there could not have been more grateful for the tariffs. And he said there's still more to do on trade, that if we could bring his Southeast Asian competitors into fair trade, that he could have three to four more factories the size of his to supply the US Building industry. But he says that whether it's the Chinese, the Indians, the other Southeast Asian competitors keep copying his products and trying to undercut him. And President Trump has helped save his company and save, I believe it's 1800 jobs here. So we're hearing the same thing from everyone. They love the one big beautiful bill. The expensing, 100% expensing provision has made new investment possible. I was at Winnebago and I guess they are very innovative. They are trying to design what their customers want. A lot of that has to do with batteries and they've undertaken a big battery initiative research development center down in Florida and they would not have done it without the President's 100% immediate expensing. That was in the July 4th bill. So we've just got to sit back. The manufacturing renaissance is beginning. I did roundtable with community banks. I saw the largest bank out here, US Bancorp, and they said, contrary to the New York Times and even the Wall Street Journal this morning, that their clients all up and down the economic chain are in excellent shape. Consumers are spending. So this narrative that the job market's tough and that people are pinched, they've never seen it before. If the consumer is spending like this.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

What is the Wall Street Journal seems to. Are they looking at a different set of numbers? Because they've been consistently, I think, negative on everything that's happening. I mean, I look at the math and I come to a very different conclusion. They look at, I think, the same math that you and I look at. They come to a different conclusion. How do you reconcile that?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Look, Steve, that in any data set is an average or median central tendency. And there can be outliers in the data. They just immediately gravitate to this doomsday scenario because the Wall Street Journal editorial board can't stand the President's policies. Bunch of grumpy old men over there do not want to admit that they have been fantastically wrong. Everything that they have stood for is crumbling. That they created this terrible trade situation. I mean, look, look, Steve, in October, we had the best trade number, the best, the smallest trade deficit since 2009. I've been in the investment business 35, 40 years. When I first started, 1980s, 1990s trade used to contribute to GDP. But then we got to these massive trade deficits and as Ross Perot said, it was a giant sucking sound. So everyone was, oh my gosh, what is. It was unexpected that the GDP was so strong in October. It was strong because of exports. And again, what's not going reported anywhere is that the trade deals that President Trump has done and Jamison Greer has negotiated the details in a magnificent way. Magnificent way is the headline is always the tariff. The US has put a 15% tariff on Europe, 15% tariff on Japan, 18, 19, 20% on Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam. The other side of that ledger, Steve, is why we saw that big GDP number, because Jameson is going in with a machete. And with President Trump's backing and insistence, our trading partners are taking down their high tariffs down to zero. They're removing the non tariff trade barriers. And that's why we're seeing this export flow pick up. And nobody wants to talk about that. The, the other thing too is as I've said many times, that the Trump economic. Oh, go ahead.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

No, no, no, no. Well, just one thing. When Trump economic once you just, they had exports up 30%, imports down 30%, smallest trade deficit we've had in decades. And the Financial Times of London and the Wall Street Journal will just not take that basic number and just address it. Also the tariffs, there's been no, there's been no data at all to show there's been any price increases. Joe Lavarney said your guy over at treasury we're about to have a disinflationary boom, which is extraordinary, I tell you. Scott, hang on FOR One second, Mr. Secretary, we're going to go to commercial break to pay a few bills here. The Trump economic plan, which is a combination of the supply side tax cut to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States coupled with his the reorganization of commercial relationships globally from the post war economic rules based order which only ripped off workers and the American citizens, that now the tariffs as a forcing function, remember either going to force you to bring manufacturing jobs back here. Remember we had the secretary on I think about a month ago, right before I think the Christmas holidays, he was in South Carolina of I believe a Germans had put in some advanced technology, I think was in magnets. Right. That's what, that's what the terrorists were. And now you see that Exports are up 30%, imports are down 30%, there's no discernible inflation through the tariff numbers. What's not to love? This is the execution of the plan and this is why the doom and gloomers at the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times of London, the business section of the New York Times, Bloomberg I'm just picking some random, random examples. Short commercial break we're going to return to the war room in the secretary Treasury. Scott Besant on some basic math of the Trump economic revolution next.

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[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Mr. Secretary, you were, you were on a roll there about what the, what the trade policy has done in combination. I mean that's the, that's the pincer move. You got the commercial relationships, the trade policies. What's blown me away is first off just the history of it, then the first term, how difficult it was because these things are so complicated. They're at such scale and they've gone through so many different operations and the government have to sign off on it. I don't think people quite appreciate the urgency. You people had to actually start to get trade deals in place in six months and actually start to see the benefit of normally these things take years. It took years to negotiate previous trade deals with Korea and Japan and others. You guys are doing them in six, seven, eight months and having them going to immediate impact and then monitoring it. And you're seeing not just capital markets respond, but also corporations respond. Sir.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Steve President Trump's economic agenda is a three legged stool that I've talked about quite a bit before. So the first is trade. We've talked about that trade deals are on track, successful percolating along tax policy. Another leg of the stool, one big beautiful bill. No one said it could be done. It was done by July 4th with President Trump's leadership and Mike Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, pushing both bodies of Congress to get that done. So check. And then three, the unheralded part or the third leg of the stool is deregulation and deregulation against all parts of the economy. Because when I'm out here in Minnesota, these folks like making things like this is a manufacturing hub. They are great at it. They innovate, they build, and that's what they want to do. And with the deregulation, I think one of the surprises for me coming into government was how hard we had made it in the US to build things like forget the unfair trade. The EPA had just chased everyone out of the country in terms of the manufacturing. So yes, it was cheaper to build in China or India, Mexico, but you just couldn't build here. And President Trump, Lee Zeldin at the EPA is knocking down those barriers at treasury, we have cut back on unnecessary financial regulations. We're going to keep things safe and sound. But Oliver Wyman estimates that our moves in deep financial deregulation have the increased the ability for banks to lend by $2.5 trillion to the US economy and then energy deregulation. In terms of what we're doing, we've got to power this boom that we're seeing in the economy. Steve, right now, if you take The Atlanta Fed GDP now and the inflation numbers, we have 8% nominal growth, 8% nominal growth. We're holding spending flat and we are going to grow our way out of this debt problem. The unheralded thing that happened last year was we'll see where the final calendar year number settles. But the US deficit for calendar year 2025 is going to be between 250 billion and 500 billion lower. So between approximately 1% of GDP and 1.5% of GDP. And that's with high GDP numbers. So the third quarter GDP that surprised everyone was 4.3%. The private sector GDP was 4.7 or 4.8%. We cut government spending, so we had a contraction in the government. And the private sector boom is powering this thing. It is. It really is kicking in. And I think 2026 is going to be even better because I'm also the IRS commissioner. So I can see the tax refunds that are waiting to go out to Americans. One of the things I announced at the Economic Club in Minneapolis was we're starting the tax filing season about the earliest we've done in a decade, January 26th. And these refunds to working Americans because of the president's signature policies, no tax and tips, no tax and overtime, no tax and Social Security auto deductibility of American made cars is going to result in over 100 billion, maybe 150 billion of tax refunds going to working Americans in the first quarter. Americans will change their withholding schedule and they will get an automatic bump in their take home pay. So I am very optimistic that we are going to have substantial non inflationary growth as Joe Lavornia says they have for 2026.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

I noticed the President is taking a pretty strong populist drive in the last couple of weeks. I mean he is a populist, but going after. Talk to me about it looks like the private equity guys no longer. He's going to try to block them from buying homes, getting into the real estate market maybe I think condos and apartments maybe. Also yesterday he said he's going to limit credit cards to 10%. He had the oil companies that talk about Venezuela, but he's also hammering them, jawboning them about full spectrum energy dominance and wants, he wants price of energy even to come down more. Talk to me about these things that are happening right now that President Trump's directly going after the affordability issue.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Yeah, look, he wants corporate America to get on board with the American people and think about what's happening in Venezuela. We'll see what happens in Iran. And he had mostly big oil in, but I can tell you that I've been part of the talks. Private, private oil companies, the wildcatters, these are substantial individuals. They are chomping at the bit to get in. And CEO of Exxon came out and said, well, we need to see substantial change in Venezuela before we can do much. There is substantial change in Venezuela and you've got to live in the future because what will happen just like with fracking, just like with fracking, that the individuals come in, they make billions of dollars and then they sell on to the oil majors. So I think this narrative that the big oil won't be involved, these wildcatters are big oil. And then Chevron, who has been a fantastic partner over the years in dealing with Venezuela with the sanctions, they've really managed a difficult regime really well, is going to do more. So my sense is that Chevron will have the lead there. And then these other initiatives, of course private equity should not be buying single family homes. They have a huge tax advantage over individual buyers. And everyone says, well, it's not that much of the market. I've been in markets 30 or 40 years and markets are made by the marginal buyer. And many of the real estate markets that have seen the most inflation, whether it's Atlanta, Phoenix, a lot of those southeast markets and western markets are where private equity is most prevalent. So we're not going to make them divest. We don't want to cause a dramatic price decrease, but we want to make it fair for everyday Americans. And we don't want there to be a tax arbitrage between corporate buyers and homeowners.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Mr. By the way, you're correct. Harold Ham was saying, hey, let me in the country and I'll show you. I'll go find you some good cheap old Dennis Zuela. Mr. Secretary, about this debacle in Minneapolis I think is spread, it's all over the country. This thing about the fraud, the scams, really paying for the left. But you know, these immigrants or migrants or whatever you want to call them shouldn't be on the government dole, but they are stealing like crazy, shipping hundreds of millions of dollars out. I know the president, you have talked about that a lot. You're kind of the enforcer. Can you give us your overview of what you at treasury are going to do, sir?

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

STEVE Treasury's job is to follow the money. And we've done it for centuries. And in the 20th century and coming into the 21st century, we've taken down the Mafia. We are in the process of dissecting and taking apart the Mexican drug cartels following their money. And now we are taking a very bright light to these Somali fraudsters and we will follow the money. We will know how this happened. We will know where it went. We will know that if Al Shabaab was a recipient and we've taken several measures. One, we are putting in a geographic targeting order for the Hennepin and Ramsey counties, Minneapolis, St. Paul's where these Somalians live. A lot of the money goes out through what are called MSBs, money service businesses. They get wire transferred out. So what we've done, we are taking the suspicious activity threshold down from 10,000 to $3,000. And Steve, the important thing now you have to check a box if you are wiring money out of the country on whether you are on public assistance or not. Because if you were wiring money out of the country and you're on public assistance, one of two things must be true. Your benefits are too high because the generous people of Minnesota are giving you those benefits for you and your family. They are not giving them to your uncle in Mogadishu. So either the benefits are too high or you are part of this, the nest of fraud. And neither is a good look. But we are going to trace all of these LLCs and where the money is. Someone put it very, very well yesterday, said that the care payments have become a big business. It is a cottage industry out here teaching people how to form LLCs. They're skimming money at every point and make no mistake, the Democratic establishment, best case they turned a blind eye, they have medium case they enable it and worst case we are going to find that they are recipients. And Steve, Minnesota is going to be the genesis for the protocols that we use nationwide.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Mr. Secretary, where did they go on social media to keep up with you and your activity? Sir.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

They can go on to my Treasury X account and the at the Secretary U.S. treasury and we're going to be posting a lot of our findings on there.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Mr. Secretary, thank you for kicking off the weekend by Jordan Warren. Appreciate you sir. Fight on. Godspeed. Good good short break.

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[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Okay, we're going to get to Texas momentarily in Minneapolis, Tehran, all of it. But I want to. I got John Gardner on here. John, it was a. And you represent. You've got this organization about small manufacturing. You're talking about a small manufacturing renaissance in this country. You've been part of the Peter Navarro, let's say mindset on bringing manufacturing or rejuvenating manufacturing in the United States. It was a year ago tomorrow that you approach us. You had the great idea of the External Revenue Service. Now the President has had that designated. They're working on it over at treasury. And the President's talking about a trillion dollars coming in on tariffs. You think you've had a pretty good first year, sir?

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

Yeah, I think we've had a great year, especially the business media casts a light that, oh, we have $2.2 trillion paid in income tax and that's too much to replace. However, the thing that stands out to me is that 600 billion by 2022 numbers is what 90% of the lower income taxpayers pay in America. Imagine replacing 90% of the income tax that Americans pay. How much? That would help the working families in the middle class. And I'm with you, Steve. I think you've called for, hey, taxes on millionaires are okay, but let's help the working class and the people trying. You know, we're an extra 500 bucks a month really gets them a lot farther. And we can replace 600 billion of that easily. And you know, I want to remind the president here, he posted this on Truth last year where he said he was creating the External revenue service on January 20, 2020 5th, and that for far too long we have taxed our great people using the Internal Revenue Service. And he's really trying to steer America back to the original vision the Founding Fathers had. The Founding Fathers never intended for the citizen to be an indentured servant to the government. And they proved this income tax was never a conversation with the Founding Fathers ever. The very first legislative act they passed was the Tariff act. And they passed on July 4th, which had a lot of meaning for the Founding Fathers, Independence Day. And that first major piece of legislation said, whereas it is necessary for the support of the government for the discharge of the debts of the United States and encouragement and protection of manufacturers, that duties be laid on goods, wares and merchandise imported. So they never had a plan to punish the citizen and garnish their wages. And I want to ask the audience who may believe in, you know, be anti tariff, what is a truly more limited government? What provides more personal liberty to the citizen? It's been pitched to the American people that when you go to the store and you can choose from chicom products or products from India and you don't pay a tariff, that's more personal liberty and you have more freedom of choice. But I say, and President Trump is going to say and prove that you have more freedom of choice when you can choose, hey, I'm going to buy a foreign good and I choose to be taxed or I'm going to buy an American made good and choose not to be taxed and not pay income tax. That is a truly more limited government when we remove income tax on the citizen and we pay our bills with external revenue. And what is more Freedom of choice. Buying something and saying I choose to be taxed or buying an American made good and say I choose not to be taxed and not have income tax. And so that's why I believe external revenue and tariffs actually are more limited government and they actually are more personal liberty for the citizen. And on the note of personal liberty, the 16th Amendment, which created income tax, has no boundaries on it. The 18th amendment was passed prohibiting alcohol and we repealed it. And the main reason we repealed the prohibition on alcohol was because personal liberty. And I think it's time we start to look at putting some parameters on the 16th Amendment and its intrusion in the citizen's life. And I think what fascinates me the most, Steve, is how did we get, you know, Andrew Breitbart said politics are downstream of culture. And how, how did we get to the point in America where, you know, this is a 1919 ad from a toy maker. And he says, for your country's sake, buy American made toys, be a partner of Uncle Sam, of all American industries, see that your money is helping American grow. Buying for toys won't do it that way. Your money goes overseas and doesn't come back by insisting on American made toys. Your money stays here, every bit of it, to work for your own country and for you. But now we're at the point in the business culture that we have a toy maker suing the President and his administration because of the tariffs. And now it's in front of the Supreme Court. Where is the patriotic and moral fiber of the business culture in our America? And I believe it was eroded with this embrace of unilateral free trade. Now I believe in free trade within the borders of our nation, unilateral free trade. And it means that no matter what another country does to us, no matter how much they tariff us, no matter how much they steal our intellectual property, we do nothing. And this was advocated for. And this is where the cultural disconnect. And we need the next generation, the turning points and the pragerus and all the next generation to get this cultural shift away from tariffs are bad. And let there be no doubt that Milton Friedman, when he called for no tariffs, he called for no unilateral tariffs. He says, this is Capitalism Freedom, page 88. I believe it would be far better for us to move to free trade unilaterally. And he went on and on about no matter what another nation does, but he didn't calculate what is the true cost of unilateral free trade. He didn't calculate the cost of national security. The cost of intellectual property theft with communist China, which is the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of civilization. The cost of our cities dying, the meccas of industry dying and having the societal costs of paying for homeless people and paying for drug rehab clinics, those were not factored in the cost of supply chain issues. I think that we need to change our definition of free trade and unilateral free trade to America first free trade and America first capitalism. In my book, I define America first capitalism as a production based economy protected by a wall of terrorists, accompanied by free trade only within our borders. And the last note, because I don't want to go on too much, is free trade really erodes the freedoms that capitalism builds. Unilateral free trade does. So much so in fact, that Karl Marx encouraged free trade. In his 1848 speech on free trade, Karl Marx said, the free trade system is. Hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade. Free trade breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeois to the extreme point. Is that not what's happening in America today? And under free trade, the whole class of small manufacturers is ruined and thrown into the ranks of the working class. This is a direct quote from Karl Marx. This is all happening in America today. And you know, no one who cares about America should desire the ruin of the whole class of small manufacturers. So people who side with unilateral free trade are siding with capital. Karl Marx, because he thought free trade would hasten the fall of capitalism. So I'm really excited to see how President Trump's steering us more in alignment with the founding fathers vision for America and away from the economist dogma that has really.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Yeah, no, go ahead real quickly because we've got great, you know, we got 30% export growth, 30% import drop, smallest trade deficit we've had. The big guys are on board. How are we going to revolutionize for the small? What I love about you is your renaissance of American industry and manufacturing through, I think people that have factories with 50 employees or less, manufacturers, the, the way the country used to be in these little job shops. How do we, how do we rejuvenate that?

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

Well, the numbers are 90% of American manufacturing companies are 50 employees or less, 75% are 20 employees or less. And this is the one that always gets me. 48% of American manufacturers are five employees or less. And that's really, you know, President Trump just kind of said no Dividends and no CEO pay for the big primes because he wants them to speed up their production. And that's great. I agree with that. But where their snap, where the bottleneck is in the supply chain is with the small manufacturers, because they're the tier 2, 3 and 4 suppliers that the big companies rely on. The big companies, a big factory, they don't make everything. They don't make all the inputs that go into their stuff. And so, you know, Secretary Hegseth was just out here touring the big factories in El Segundo and around, and there doesn't seem to be understanding of what the small manufacturers need and that they are the true engine of production in America. And what we need is access to capital. The sba, I'm sorry to say, I don't like to say negative things, but they really haven't done much for the manufacturers. They increased the line that you can get from 5 million to 10 million, which a lot of guys that are 5 and 20 man shops don't need. They waived fees if you're in a certain NACE code for borrowing big deals, 10, 20 grand amortized over 25 years. And they have this new loan, the mark loan, which basically just has manufacturing in the title. It's the same as a former cap line loan. And here's the biggest thing it needs, lender adoption. That's the biggest thing. The SBA can do everything they want, but lenders need to adopt, agree to lend like this, and first it needs to pass Congress. So we're looking at a year or two out. That's going to be three quarters of the way through the administration. We need to do something now to get capital to the smaller manufacturers. And some of the policies have, you know, we need to build refining capability here in America because material prices are going through the roof for the manufacturer. And I know for a fact from a lot of my guys, it's limiting hiring within industry. You know, manufacturing employment's going down. Manufacturing industry itself has been in contraction for the last 10 months, I'm sad to say. I think a lot of. I think president. Listen, President Trump is doing his job. He's building. He's getting us cheap energy. He's out there getting rare earth deals. He's getting the foundational building blocks for a manufacturing economy in place. He's only one guy, he can only do so much. The rest of the administration needs to follow his mandate and really understand that if we want to get manufacturing going, it's the smaller guys. But President Trump is the man as A person is doing his job, he can't do anymore. But I think there's a, I mean how many voices in the administration are for small manufacturers? I mean, you know how many of them have owned small manufacturing companies? Not C suite, John Deere guys. Then they don't listen. You know I, me and friends try to approach administration and there's, there's one quote, I don't want to sell out a friend but basically a friend of mine who has a critical aspect of American manufacturing. Critical, critical. Was told loans from the government to his facility were communist. So again it's the free trade idea. The government shouldn't pick winners and losers when it comes to industry. But it's okay to pick winners and loser. With farmers it's okay to give Argentina $20 billion. It's okay to give other countries foreign aid. But hey, we gotta be careful when we're helping manufacturers because we don't want to look like communists which most other countries subsidize their manufacturing industry. So I don't know if that answers your question Steve but we really need the administration to start listening to us and some of the things that.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

John, John, where can people go and get more information on, on everything you're talking about? People are quite topic particularly the rejuvenation of small manufacturing. Where they go.

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

John Gardnerauthor.com and on X getter and Instagram. John Gardner V O H and my new website's Johnny brother, appreciate you. Thank you Steve. Thanks for having me on.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

John Gardner What? Hold on. Where's, what's the new website? I want people to go to it and check it out.

[John Gardner (Small Manufacturing Advocate)]

John Gardner author.com.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Thank you brother, appreciate you. Great work. The rejuvenation the next phase is the rejuvenation of small manufacturing. Like John said. What is it? 90% of manufacturers in this country are under 50 employees. Just absolutely incredible. Birch gold A lot of turbulence. Gold near an all time high. Silver near all time high. It ain't the price, it's the process of how it got there. Particularly over the last couple of years. You need to understand the centrality of the dollar as the prime reserve currency in your, in your life. So check it out. Birchgold.com promo code abandoned the end of the dollar empire. It gives you direct access to Philip Patrick and the team. Make sure you go talk to Philip Patrick and the team. They can tell you all the different ways you can get into gold, physical gold with I don't know, IRAs, 401ks, all of it. Most importantly, they will teach you why gold has been a hedge against times of financial turbulence for thousands of years. Why is gold gold? They'll teach you. Trust the process. Short commercial break we're returning the World Going to Texas next. Amazing, amazing event yesterday. Got a bunch of Texans here to talk about it.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Next. War room. Here's your host, stephen k. Banff.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Brian Harrison Joyce. So, Brian, we had this event. We're going to play clips of the top there. I want to thank Real America's Voice, Patriot Mobile, everybody that put this on, from Grant Stitchfield to everybody, Americans Freedom, American Freedom Alliance. Karen. But you know, there's a primary on the third. There's this proposition on the ballot, ban Sharia law from Texas. However, I thought Sharia law was already banned and I thought the Muslim Brotherhood and CARE have already been designated as terrorist organizations. So what's the hubbub, bub?

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

Well, you got it half right. You know, the governor, Governor Abbott very correctly did designate CARE and the Muslim Brotherhood as terror organizations. That's the correct thing to do. I'm grateful he did it. Absolutely. As to the you would be forgiven for thinking that Texas has banned Sharia law because there has been no shortage of gaslighting coming out of the Austin establishment unit party for a long time putting out public proclamations that Texas has banned Sharia law. The only problem with this is that I'm in the legislature. I know the laws we have and that we vote on. And yeah, there is no such law that has been voted on really at all. And in fact, it gets worse. You know, people talk about this Sharia compound down here that's going up this Epic City and they, they brag that we passed a law to ban Epic City. You know the problem with that, though, Steve, in the law to quote, ban Epic City, there was an exception put into the law to exempt Epic City. So, yeah, so the problem is we've got a bunch of performative theater going on down here in the run up to the primary. And Texans don't want rhetoric. They want results. So if we're going to designate CARE and Muslim Brotherhood as terror organizations, which they should be, let's have some investigations. Where are the arrests? If we're going to say that the position of the Texas government is that we have banned Sharia law, the most important thing people might take away from this interview is that Texas hasn't banned Sharia law, but we could. And so I actually think the Texas legislature, because the Texas people demand actions, not just rhetoric, we should start doing things right now. We should do oversight. We should have legislative hearings to help educate the Texans who may not understand the truth that we haven't banished Sharia law and the threat from Sharia law. So we should have legislative hearings, and we should start doing it right now. We shouldn't wait a couple of years. Texans deserve action, and they deserve it. Now.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Let'S go back to this. This. This speaks to a larger problem. And I want to pull the camera back just for a second, because it's the same thing. The frustration the MAGA base on with Capitol Hill, what I call the Duma.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

Right.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

It's not a Congress anymore. It's the Duma. It's politics as performance art.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

Yeah.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

It's to do. This is all. It's all performance art. And then it only doesn't change. It actually gets worse because the theater kids have put up the performance and people say, hey, that's been taken care of. They talked about that. We did that. Let's get on to a new problem, sir.

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

No, that's exactly right. I mean, they do the absolute bare minimum that they think they have to do to get away with it, because the only thing they care about most elected officials is their next reelection. They don't care about the voters. They forget about the voters the second they get elected. And the problem, both in the US Congress, by and large, and the Texas legislature, which, by the way, still lets the radical leftist, Marxist progressive Democrats completely control the Texas House of Representatives. They still elect our speaker. The Democrats, what they do is they turn their backs on the people they're supposed to work for to embrace popularity, complacency, and comfort in the swamp. And so they pass, you know, a bill that might have a good title or headline, but the reality is, the substance of the bill either doesn't do what it's supposed to do, or it actually undermines the objective goal here. And the reality is that the elected establishment in the Texas government for far too long has been telling the voters they're going to stand up to the radical leftists, but they've actually been empowering them. And Texans have been lulled into a sense of complacency by many elected Republicans, assuring them that the problem is solved. And mailers are going out all across the state of Texas right now, misinforming people saying, we have ban Sharia law and the gaslighting has got to stop. And the only way we've been able to deliver real conservative victories, you and the posse know this better than anybody, is when we hold the establishment's feet to the fire, Congress has made itself largely irrelevant. And the Texas legislature has made itself largely irrelevant in the sense that we're not doing real oversight. For example, we're still funding the lowest hanging fruit here. We should stop funding radical, violent Islamist organizations that have ties to terror, affiliated organizations that advocate the overthrow of the United States. And unfortunately, we had tens of millions of dollars at least likely going to these organizations. And we should stop doing things like that. We need less theater, more action, more results. Because the stakes couldn't be high. The videos you're seeing coming out of what happened in London with the results of unchecked mass migration that could absolutely happen here in Texas and the Austin swamp. They're trying to silence my voice. They're trying to take me out in seven weeks. They're trying to take out anybody who demands accountability and is able to go directly to the American people and the people of Texas like the posse, like you do, Steve, and demand results, not just rhetoric. And that's why we got to start doing more legislative oversight, legislative hearings. Let's go. Let's have special sessions. There's no need to wait till next year to start debating something that maybe we'll do in two years. Let's get action on Sharia law in 2026. Texans do not need to be forced to wait two more years. And quite frankly, Texas nor America can afford.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Are you notifying the speaker? I mean, how do we get the oversight? The special session will come later. But how do you get the. How you get the oversight immediately so you can have hearings that are public and the folks in Texas can see what people actually say when they're there in front of you guys?

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

That's a great question. So, yes, I will be formally submitting a request to the speaker. And most of the time, people do this very quietly under the rad. I don't intend to be quiet about this. I intend to be very public that both the Texas House, where I serve, but also the Texas Senate could do this too. The Texas legislature must get its head out of the sand. And right now, in the next couple months, we need to start having very public, televised, public legislative oversight hearings on the threat posed from radical jihadists, on the threat from the massive extreme expansion of Sharia law and possible Sharia compounds and no go zones in the state of Texas. So there's no reason that they should not do it. And I'll tell you right now, Steve, I look forward to talking to you about this as we go forward, because the only way that's going to happen, and I'm going to be as loud about this as I possibly can as an elected member of the Texas legislature. But the only way we're going to do this is the same way we knocked off the president of Texas A and M into the biggest DEI program stopped elimination illegals from registering vehicles. It's if the grassroots freedom loving patriots and the posse melt the phone lines of the establishment under the corrupt pink dome in Austin and demand action. But you know what, Steve? We've had a lot of successes just in the last several months and there's no reason we we can't have some optimism that we can have some success here. But the reality is we have to the future Western civilizations on the line as you say all the time. As goes Texas, so goes America. As goes America, so so goes the world. Texas is on the front line in the battle for the future in the next generation. We yeah.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

20 seconds. Your your social media feed.

[Scott Besant (U.S. Treasury Secretary)]

Where do people go?

[Texas Legislator Brian E. Harrison]

Please go at Brian E. Harrison on X at Brian E. Harrison. Please like follow share at Brian E. Harrison. And then the swamp is trying to take me out in the primary. So go to vote Brian Harrison.com and help out there. Vote Brian Harrison.com. always great to be with you, Stephen. And a great event last night, by the way. Great job.

[Stephen K. Bannon (War Room Host)]

Thank you, sir.

[Podcast Host]

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