THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON (EP. 5160)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Real America’s Voice — The War Room with Stephen K. Bannon (Episode 5160)

Date: February 21, 2026
Host: Steve Bannon
Guests/Contributors: E.J. Antoni, Captain Jim Fennell, Spencer Morrison, Richard Haass, Josh Duncan, and others
Theme:
This episode delivers an intense, wide-ranging discussion on the fate of Trump’s trade tariffs after a Supreme Court ruling, escalating Middle East tensions and U.S. military posture, implications of political crackdowns abroad (with a close focus on South Korea), and heated debate over American electoral integrity leading up to the 2026 midterms. At the center is the fight over American economic nationalism and the durability of democratic institutions at home and abroad.

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1. Supreme Court Strikes Down Trump’s Tariff Policy (00:04–03:25)

Overview

• The episode opens with guest E.J. Antoni and clips from Donald Trump, highlighting the Supreme Court’s 6-3 decision declaring a large portion of Trump’s tariff strategy illegal due to unconstitutional use of emergency powers.
• Even Trump’s own Supreme Court appointees (Gorsuch, Barrett) joined the majority.
• Trump responds with fierce criticism of the court, calling the justices “unpatriotic and disloyal.” (00:49)
• Despite this legal blow, Trump immediately attempts to circumvent the ruling with a new executive order imposing a universal 10% tariff.

Notable Quotes

• Donald Trump (on the Court’s decision): “I'm ashamed of certain members of the court, absolutely ashamed for not having the courage to do what's right for our country.” (00:49)
• E.J. Antoni: “Trump's illegal tariffs were in effect for 321 days before the court stopped the president’s unlawful tax on the American people…” (01:22)

Key Points

• The Supreme Court’s ruling is framed as a “declaration of independence” from executive overreach.
• Significant public disapproval (60%) of Trump’s tariff policy is cited.
• Trump pivots to a new executive order, signaling ongoing confrontation with both courts and international trade norms.

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2. U.S.–Iran Showdown and Strategy Debates (03:25–25:57)

Diplomacy or Escalation? (03:25–05:20)

• Richard Haass critiques US strategy towards Iran as “incoherent and opaque,” questioning the objectives behind recent military buildup and concerns about unintended escalation.
  • “The problem with limited strikes, by definition, is what happens if they don’t do the trick? ... Do you then double down or triple down?” (03:58)

Military Build-up in the Middle East (11:35–14:02)

• Captain Jim Fennell details the deployment of major US naval and air assets into the region and the transition to “air supremacy.”
  • “We have over 350 combat aircraft ... and over 100 tankers ... preparing our forces for air supremacy.” (12:00)
  • “If President Trump decides to use military force, we will destroy Iran’s military, 100% of it.” (13:20)

Intra-panel Debate: Incrementalism vs. Decisiveness

• Bannon interrogates the wisdom of incremental, limited strikes versus all-out action, referencing past failures (Vietnam) and the dangers of US entanglement (16:16–19:56).
• Fennell maintains Iran would face overwhelming US force, but Bannon challenges: “If we come to the defense of the people, then we own everything thereafter.” (18:57)

Military & Strategic Implications

• Panelists discuss potential regional spillover—will Iran target oil shipping or the Saudis in response? What happens after regime strikes or mass destabilization?
  • “You have to decide how they want to manage the crisis.” — Richard Haass (08:24)
• Fennell: “The people have been in the streets protesting ... They only cannot take it back because the Iranian regime is murdering them in the dark of night.” (19:17)

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3. South Korean Political Upheaval and U.S. Alliances (05:20–8:13, 19:31–22:42)

Martial Law and Presidential Trial in South Korea

• The show tracks the extraordinary events leading to the conviction and life imprisonment of former South Korean President Yoon Suk Yul, who narrowly avoided the death penalty after his imposition of martial law in December 2024.
• Resilience of South Korean democracy is lauded, but there’s deep skepticism about the direction of the new government and implications for U.S. alliances.

Notable Quotes

• Captain Jim Fennell: “South Korea has emerged from this process with due process, sustained rule of law, sustained Democracy itself was in the docket …” (06:57)
• Bannon: “We came very close to having a death sentence on a conservative politician that at least tried to work with the United States as an ally.” (19:31)
• Fennell: “We need to be careful where we’re proceeding with South Korea ... I’m afraid this could be a ploy for them to justify removing our troops there …” (20:42)

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4. Market & Economic Impact of Rule of Law (08:46–10:21)

• E.J. Antoni asserts market stability is fundamentally linked to investor trust in “the rule of law”:
  • “If we’re a country that doesn’t adhere to rule of law, then expect your markets to fly out the window because nobody is going to invest a red cent here.” (09:33)

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5. Trump’s Economic Nationalism & Legal Pathways (27:08–40:37)

Resilience of Tariff Authority Despite Supreme Court Ruling

• Spencer Morrison and E.J. Antoni dissect how Trump could still pursue aggressive tariff strategies using existing laws—most importantly, Section 338 of the Tariff Act of 1930, which gives the president wartime-like leeway to impose tariffs if U.S. commerce is “discriminated against.”
  • “Section 338 ... actually gives the chief executive the ability to issue tariffs up to 50%. … It’s a blank check.” — Spencer Morrison (30:55–32:25)
• The challenge is less legal logistics and more about long-term, structural “baking-in” of tariffs as part of American economic policy, not just ad hoc executive actions.

Political Realities and the “Populist Nationalist” Agenda

• Both experts agree that Wall Street, Big Tech, and much of Congress remain hostile to protectionist policies.
  • “You have to have enough [House] votes ... and the answer is, brutally, you would not get it because they're still neoliberals ... not with Donald J. Trump or Stephen K. Bannon, the populist nationalist.” — Bannon (38:21)
• Morrison: “Getting the right things through Congress is not necessarily a matter of getting the right people in there, but giving the wrong people the right incentives.” (39:24)

Strategic Communication

• The only way to shift policy: Trump must “take this case directly to the American people,” framing tariffs as a national security and prosperity issue to win over public and political support.
  • “It begins and ends with the American people. President Trump has to take this case directly to the American people and have people understand exactly what's going on.” — E.J. Antoni (36:49)

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6. U.S. Electoral Integrity and the Ongoing Trump Debate (42:31–48:58)

• Focus shifts to Georgia and nation-wide electoral debates with the backdrop of executive orders, voter ID, and the specter of federalized elections.
  • Josh Duncan: “This is all a solution in search of a problem ... and they want to try to fit their narrative of this election being rigged.” (42:57)
• Pressure on Republican officials to stand up to Trump is discussed, with Duncan stating most are privately critical but publicly silent. He calls Trump’s leadership “the worst mistake this country’s ever made.” (44:39)
• Bannon and contributors reflect on January 6th, the aftermath, the danger of constitutional crisis, and the essential need for “citizen capital” – the ability of Americans to accept fair losses in elections as a necessary part of democracy’s endurance.
  • “A big, big part of this moment ... is whether people are going to have the citizen capital ... to accept a loss and to see a loss as seasonal as opposed to existential.” (47:46)

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7. Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Bannon: “This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people.” (09:43)
• E.J. Antoni: “America prospered under the American system ... the highest average tariff rates in the world, over 40% ... all throughout the 1800s.” (34:31–36:04)
• Captain Fennell: “This is not exclusively about Israel. This is about what Iran’s done to us for 47 years. And the pimple is about ready to be popped.” (24:14)

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8. Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:04–03:25: Supreme Court overturns Trump tariffs; Trump’s response.
• 03:25–05:20: U.S. Iran policy questioned; risk of escalation.
• 05:20–08:13: South Korean political upheaval, trial of President Yoon.
• 11:35–14:02: Military update—U.S. regional build-up, doctrine of air supremacy.
• 19:31–22:42: Debate over U.S. advocacy in South Korea, trust in alliances.
• 27:08–40:37: In-depth: Economics, legacy tariffs, nationalist policy.
• 42:31–48:58: Georgia elections, national voter ID, Trump, 2026 midterms, and democracy.

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Conclusion

Episode Takeaways:
This installment of The War Room presents a sweeping, combative discussion on the erosion and resilience of American and allied institutions—legal, economic, and democratic—under pressure from executive ambition, foreign threats, and internal polarization. The hosts and guests circle back constantly to the struggle to define and defend “American values” through law, economic self-sufficiency, and populist mobilization, while acknowledging the constraints of both legal structure and a divided polity.

Listen for:

• Deep dives on old and new legal authorities for presidential action
• Realpolitik skepticism on incremental military action
• Stark warnings about America’s political and economic vulnerabilities
• Emphasis on narrative and “taking the case to the American people” as the real battleground

For further insights and ongoing coverage:

• Captain Jim Fennell: [American Greatness]
• Spencer Morrison: [X @RealSPMorrison], Book “Reshore: How Tariffs Will Bring Our Jobs Home, Revive the American Dream”
• E.J. Antoni: [X @RealEjAntoni]

Transcript

[Steve Bannon]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[E.J. Antoni]

Tonight, Trump's signature economic policy, it is in shambles. The sweeping tariffs he falsely promised would liberate hardworking Americans have been illegal all along. Today, the Supreme Court struck down a huge chunk of the president's trade agenda. The court ruled he illegally deployed emergency powers authority, that he does not have to slap crushing tariffs on nearly every country. The historic decision on presidential power was handed down six to three. Even two of Trump's appointees, Justice Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett, ruled against him. Trump then unleashed this unhinged tirade against the justices who dared to put him in his place.

[Donald Trump]

I'm ashamed of certain members of the court, absolutely ashamed for not having the courage to do what's right for our country. They're very unpatriotic and disloyal to our Constitution. They don't want to do the right thing. They're afraid of it.

[E.J. Antoni]

Justices Fortunes and Barrett, are you surprised in particular by their decision today?

[Steve Bannon]

Do you regret nominating them?

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to say whether or not I regret. I think their decision was terrible. I think it's an embarrassment to their families. You want to know the truth? The two of them,

[E.J. Antoni]

There's a reason why Trump is attacking our country's separation of powers. The New York Times writes the court's ruling, quote, amounted to a declaration of independence. But let's be real, it took more than 10 months to get here. Trump's illegal tariffs were in effect for 321 days before the court stopped the president's unlawful tax on the American people and voters. Well, they have felt the pain with 60% of Americans disapproving of Trump's whiplash trade policy. But that is not stopping Trump. Breaking. Just minutes ago, Trump says he signed a new executive order imposing an additional 10% tariff on all countries, a new effort to bypass the court's ruling.

[Donald Trump]

They really strongly said President Trump's tariffs policy is unconstitutional and illegal. They said, look, if you want to get tariffs, the way to do it is to go to Congress and ask for authorization. And so, you know, it's not a decision about any particular president. It's a decision about the presidency. And the chief justice, writing for six justices, used very strong language about the president to the president, saying, you know, the Constitution requires you to get this affirmative approval of the Congress, and you can't just do this on your own. In America, the stroke of the president's pen is not enough to impose taxes on the American people, and terrorists are nothing else. But taxes, the chief justice said, and I think it's notable that this decision wasn't just written by some group of lefty justices, to the extent there even are any. It was written and joined by six justices, including two justices appointed by Donald Trump himself, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett, both of them say, saying in full that these tariffs were unconstitutional. And so, you know, when I presented the argument to the Supreme Court on November 5, I made about six key points. Every single one, Nicole, of those six points was accepted 100% by all six justices. Today on the Supreme Court, where do

[E.J. Antoni]

you think things stands there? There's obviously some competing narratives here. The US still maintaining that the bottom line is zero enrichment for Iranians. But then you had the foreign minister come on Morning Joe yesterday saying actually diplomatic negotiations are apace and that that is not the bottom line that the administration has, at least in private meetings, offered in discussions. What's your take on where things stand and whether or not you think limited strikes, which is what the Wall Street Journal has been reporting, could potentially be effective?

[Richard Haass]

Well, Jackie, first of all, it's hard to make sense of US Policy because it's somewhere between incoherent and opaque. The United States has assembled all these forces. It's not clear what the objectives would be, what would be our definition of success. It's not even clear what triggered it. The only new thing coming out of Iran the last couple of months is not their nuclear program, not their missile program, not support for proxies. It's their slaughter of Iranian dissidents. And it's not at all clear how American aircraft carriers and the like and airplanes could protect individual Iranians or bring about regime change or anything else. So I literally do not understand American policy. And by the way, the administration hasn't bothered to explain it. Congress hasn't bothered to hold hearings and ask questions about it. This idea of a limited strike. Yeah, the president may feel compelled to do something because threats don't seem to have moved the Iranians. The problem with limited strikes by definition is what happens if they don't do the trick. Do you then double down or triple down? Then we find ourselves in a large war. And by the way, Iran has all sorts of ways to inflict pain on oil shipping, on oil refineries and wells on American forces in the region. So we shouldn't kid ourselves that simply because we want to keep an interaction limited. The Iranians do. It only takes one to start something, but it takes two to manage it and end it.

[Reporter]

Today in Seoul they watched and cheered as if it were a play by play. A judge making the final call on the sentencing of former President Yoon Suk Yul. And after Yoon's fate was sealed, his critics celebrated.

[Steve Bannon]

I was watching the martial law, which

[E.J. Antoni]

is something I'd only seen in history

[Steve Bannon]

books, unfold in real time.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

I hoped for a harsher punishment so

[Steve Bannon]

that history wouldn't repeat itself.

[Reporter]

His supporters were left shocked,

[Steve Bannon]

watching what appears to be a collapse of rule of law. Today, I am compelled to question whether we should proceed with an appeal or continue to participate in these criminal proceedings at all.

[Reporter]

It was December 2024 when President Yun declared martial law. His middle of the night announcement sent members of the military to Parliament. Protesters protected the building and their democracy inside. The only thing that stops soldiers from parliament floor furniture deployed by opposition staffers. That bought time until a unanimous vote lifted martial law. From start to finish, it was only six hours, but it was and has been a test of South Korean democracy.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

To me, the most remarkable story is the resilience and the sustainability of South Korean democracy in the face of unprecedented challenges.

[Reporter]

Frank Januzzi is the president of the Mansfield foundation, which works on US relations with Asia. He calls Yoon's the most momentous domestic trial in more than 30 years. In a country that has a history of Pres. Presidents who've been impeached, jailed, or overthrown

[Captain Jim Fennell]

over the last 14 months, South Korea has emerged from this process with due process, sustained rule of law, sustained Democracy itself was in the docket in this trial, and the South Korean people affirmed the value of that democracy, the resilience of that democracy, without personalizing the crime.

[Reporter]

The outcome from Yoon could have been much worse. The prosecution asked for the death penalty. And it wasn't only Yoon. Five other former officials were also convicted, including the former defense Minister, who will spend the next 30 years in prison. Current President Lee Jae Myung, Yun's longtime rival, has refrained from politicizing the trial, says Januzi.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

This allowed him to cool down the temperature a bit and also allowed him to focus really on where he needed to focus, which was his foreign policy priorities. Sustaining an outreach to Japan and reassuring the United States that South Korea would be a loyal, faithful ally.

[Reporter]

Over the past year, South Korea has faced pressure over trade and promise to increase defense spending. It's been a balancing act for a democracy that has now sent a former president to prison for life.

[Steve Bannon]

Richard, real quickly, let's say the president does indeed does some kind of kinetic action in Iran. How destabilizing will that be to the region.

[Richard Haass]

Again, it all depends upon the Iranian response. I think internally, Iran has institutions can probably absorb it. The real question is whether they retaliate and whether they go after the Saudis or go after shipping, in which case the oil prices go up. So in a funny sort of way, after we strike, if we do it cedes the initiative to Iran. They've got to decide how they want to manage the crisis.

[E.J. Antoni]

The markets are driven at this point largely by AI, right? We talk about this, the magnificent seven mega tech companies that are not largely impacted by tariffs or mass deportations. But if you look under that seven, things are much shakier. And we've talked about it before, so many businesses are in this no hiring, no firing, no growth. They're bracing themselves. Right? Foreign investors are not feeling great about investing in the US and the funny thing, as happy as people have been about the markets in the last year, look abroad. Markets abroad have been stronger than ours have. Well, the amazing thing is that they don't react badly to Trump anymore. They just kind of grin and bear it and hope to get through. And the positive for the markets is that they hope that Trump won't like regulation. But when something like this happens today, they really like it because it means that we do adhere to the rule of law here. And if we're a country that doesn't adhere to rule of law, then expect your markets to fly out the window because nobody is going to invest a red cent here.

[Steve Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people like that go to share the big lie? MAGA Media I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my

[Donald Trump]

country, this country will be saved.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

War Room here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Steve Bannon]

It's Saturday, the 21st of February, in the year of our Lord 2026. Obviously, a lot of forces in the world are coming together to try to thwart President Trump's populist nationalist revolution here in the United States. We're gonna get to all that. I've got two of the top experts, E.J. antony and Spencer Morrison. Spencer Morrison of the great classic book reshoring. We're gonna walk through in a moment all of this with tariffs and really economic nationalism is what it is. And putting the country first, the American system as thought up by Alexander Hamilton. I want to get to the Mobile. I got Captain Fanell for an update. Two things. Number one, Captain Fanell, latest we continue to pour assets into the Middle east, into the region. What they call effect is a breaking story about Portugal, the air bridge. More assets coming on the air bridge from Portugal in real time. Your assessment of where we stand with this as President Trump refers to a vast armada?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Well, Steve, I think right now we're seeing, as you said, all the chess pieces are getting into the region, into the eucom, European Command and Central Command's area of responsibility. So from the eastern Mediterranean down into the Gulf of Oman, over on Friday night the was reported that the USS Gerald R. Ford and its carrier battle group had chopped through, went through, transited through the Strait of Gibraltar and is now in the Mediterranean Sea. And the latest reporting from air on air asset updates. We basically have over 350 combat aircraft that are in the region, both afloat and ashore. And more importantly, we have over 100 tankers, which allows our combat aircraft, the F16s, the F22s, the Strike Eagle, F15s, F&A18s, and the F35s that have shorter range those tankers on your screen can get now fuel to be able to sustain what is called air supremacy over a combat area. Normally we talk about air superiority, which is a temporal time and space where you have combat air control over a geographic area. But air supremacy is where you can control the air at all times in that whole geographic region for a sustained long, long period of time. And so it seems to me that we are moving in and preparing our forces for air supremacy. And I would just say to Mr. Haas, who talked about managing, if we do a strike, we'll have to manage some kind of deal with the Iranians. No, we're not going to manage anything. We're going to come in and if President Trump decides to use military force, we will destroy Iran's military, 100% of it. We will take down their SRBMS or medium range ballistic missiles and their naval forces and their remaining little air forces that they have and their air defense forces. And we will sit over the top of Iran and call fires down on anybody that tries to shoot off an air defense missile or a ballistic missile. They may get off one or two here and there that they are not going to be able to sustain any kind of campaign against our allies in the region and against our forces. And this is what's coming to them.

[Steve Bannon]

Captain Fanell, hang on for a second. I want to hold you through the break. I want to talk to you briefly about the this President Trump's incrementalism, what they're thinking about at least leaking to the Wall Street Journal. We're going to leave you with Bruce Springsteen in the streets of Minneapolis, the revolt insurgency in this country, I might add. We're going to talk about South Korea also. The president got life in prison, almost got a death sentence, Bolsonaro in Brazil, Le Pen in France, Yoon in South Korea and President Donald Trump in the United States of America. Remember Bonnie Willis. And these people want to put him away for 20 or 30 years. We're also going to go to Georgia. The government has responded, responded to Abby Lowell and Norm Ison and they came in full on. We are packed this morning in the war room. Short commercial break Back in a moment.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, we're gonna get to EJ And Tony and Spencer Morrison in just a moment, but there's updates and Sam Fad is going to join us in a second hour to go down and take another cut at this. Captain Funnell, the Wall Street Journal has done pretty good job reporting because the Pentagon and the national security folks leaked to them a lot and it's a leak to try to put out to the public President Trump's thinking and get responses. What they're putting forward is President Trump's got a strategy and it's kind of Trumpian. You saw that when he didn't do regime change back in June, when he took down the total obliteration of the nuclear program. And in Venezuela, where he took Maduro and the wife and cut a deal with the rest of the regime. This would be he would he's got this deal he wants. If they're not there, he'll do a limited strike, dust them up a little bit, see if that opens up to him. If not, if it is, they'll go back and talk. If they tap him along, he'll hit it again and he'll continue to do this until he reaches some point where he goes full kinetic. Is that a strategy that you think works, sir, from your years as in naval intelligence?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

It's clearly a strategy that doesn't work, and we know that from the Vietnam War with Lyndon Johnson. It was a failed strategy that ended up us losing that war even Though we were winning it. So the idea that President Trump's going to tap this along, I'm not really sure that that's what he'll end up doing. He may be signaling that now, as you mentioned, but I think what we saw at Midnight Hammer was not something that was incremental. That was a full on strike against our nuclear.

[Steve Bannon]

No, no, no. That's just not true. That's not true. That's not true. The Israelis wanted a regime strike. They started as a regime strike. They couldn't defend themselves. President Trump, that was a very limited engagement. You're just wrong. There's. Let me ask you, Captain Finnell, let

[Spencer Morrison]

me ask you a question.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Hang on.

[Steve Bannon]

Let me ask you a question. If we do the. What you want is unload fire on the Iranian military, the ayatollah and the mullahs and crush it all. Who owns the civil war that follows? Who owns the chaos that takes place in Iran? Do we own it? Does Israel own it or the Iranian people own it?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

The Iranian people own it, obviously. And that previous event from last June, that was our action. We took the strikes on, on, on Midnight Hammer. That was Operation Midnight Hammer. That is a US Military operation.

[Steve Bannon]

But Captain, But Captain Fanell. Hang on, Cap. Hang on. But that was a limited strike. President Trump took out total obliteration of the nuclear program. The Israeli initiation of that entire war was a regime change strike. They took out Wyckoff's counterparties on the, in, in the negotiation. They hit the military. They had Mossad guys killing people. They continued to push for a regime change strike. And President Trump wouldn't do it. The reason he had to bail it out is that, as you remember, and this is why the ballistic missiles are on the target list now, is that Tel Aviv was getting crushed. Tel Aviv and now Israeli media reports that the Tel Aviv was taking incoming. President Trump had a very targeted limited strike for obliteration of a program, but it was not a regime change strike. You agree with that?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Back in June, I 100% agree. He said my objective is to take out the nuclear program, which he did in 100% full capacity. Venezuela, the same thing. I have to get rid of Maduro. 100%. I got rid of Maduro. So this time when the president comes out and says, I am going to take action because the Iranian regime will not give up nukes or will not stop terrorizing their people and murder people, we don't know exactly what the president will say is his final rationale or the full scope of. Hang on, hang out. But when he says it, he will.

[Steve Bannon]

In fact, why do we care?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Forces.

[Spencer Morrison]

Yeah.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

That he has in the region to do that.

[Steve Bannon]

I got it. But if we make the arguments about terrorizing their people and we take out the military in the ayatollahs and the mullahs, then we've come to the defense of the people, then we own everything thereafter. You just can't say, oh, because terrorizing people and then we take them out and then. Then you fall into chaos. And we own that, do we not?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

I don't know how you say it falls into chaos. The people have been in the streets protesting to take their government back. They only cannot take it back because the Iranian regime is murdering them in the dark of the night and in the streets. And they're in. They're terrorized.

[Steve Bannon]

So these are all. These are all Jeffersonian democrats that we have. We'll have. Fine. We'll have this discussion later. I think you're just 1000% dead wrong. But let's pivot to Korea. Let's pivot to South Korea. The mainstream media is covering this up like it's a return to democracy and that the new South Korean government is some great ally of the United States and Japan. Gordon Chang's got a tweet out that thinks reality. Yet two days ago, we came very close to having a death sentence on a conservative politician that at least tried to work with the United States as an ally. Do you believe the Chinese Communist Party and others are in back of this move in South Korea? And do you think you can count on South Korea now as a full ally in the. In East Asia?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

I think the cold open with the MSNBC analyst on saying that South Korea is moving towards Japan is not correct. It's. They're. They're moving into the sphere of the PRC. And we just saw on the 18th of February, as Gordon puts in his tweet, we had B52 bombers fly into the region, which is a routine operation for our air forces.

[Steve Bannon]

And.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

And the South Koreans did not help escort those bombers. Only our FNA 18s did. That are there in the theater on peninsula. And after that occurred, the South Korean Minister of defense called the commander of US Forces Korea in and dressed him down for why we were doing that. This has never happened before, as Gordon notes, and he's correct. And this is not. This is an indicator of where Lee is and where his head is at. So we need to be very careful and not allow the same people that told us that we should go along with six party talks and all these other crazy schemes on the peninsula, we should not follow their advice. We need to be careful where we're proceeding with South Korea and we need to hold them to account. We have 25,000 plus American soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen on the peninsula and they're there to defend them. And if they're going to treat us like this, then we need to talk to them about that and where we're at. And I'm afraid, though, that this could be a ploy for them to justify removing our troops there, which would be something that would be very dangerous for America and the region's national security.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you think, President Trump, should we insert ourselves now, since you've seen Bolsonaro Le Pen, should we insert ourselves now in this situation with the South Korean government and say it's just not acceptable to us? The guy got life in prison, sir?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Well, we should have said something before the presidential elections and influence the elections to the extent that we said this is what we stand for and we didn't do that. And so we're eating the results of that inaction. So today we should be saying something. I would hope that President Trump and Secretary Rubio would be contacting the South Korean president privately first to express our displeasure, how they reacted to our flights in the Yellow Sea and the West Sea and their lack of support and in fact, dressing us down. And if they don't want to deal with us on that, then you have to take it public. But first try it in private.

[Steve Bannon]

Captain, we're not going to be back on the show until Monday and we'll get you back on. You've been, you've been, as much as I may not like it, you've been correct and everything about this Iran build up. What, what are you looking for over the weekend, the next 24 to 48 hours? What are you looking for as tells of what actually is going to happen here, sir?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Well, I think the Iranians came out today or last night and said that they're trying to pin together some kind of compromise or some kind of deal. We'll see how that goes. I would expect to see the forward transit from the Western Mediterranean Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. It may even come down through the Suez, but it may just sit off in the eastern med to be used there. But we should watch for any kind of lash out. The Iranians, the Chinese and the Russians were doing them naval drills here in the last 24, 48 hours. What goes on with that? And do the Iranians try to play any games with sneak attacks or shutting down the strait or attempting to shut down the strait that they may try. So I think for now it's back in the diplomatic court. All the pieces are moved in. Maybe we have another option to ratchet up. If they don't come to the table cleanly, maybe President Trump says, hey, I'm going to send the Bush now and we'll have three carriers over there. So he's still got room to maneuver to get across to the mullahs that we're not going to accept this anymore.

[Steve Bannon]

Last thing, we got about a minute.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

As I said, this is about not Israel and other things, even though there's issues there. And I know you like to talk about them. But we have to remember in 1983, the Iranians killed 241Americans in Beirut and they've killed Americans in Khobar Towers, the USS Cole and a host of other things. So this is not exclusively about Israel. This is about what Iran's done to us for 47 years. And the pimple is about ready to be popped.

[Steve Bannon]

Let me. I also will remind you that President Reagan removed every other military and says the biggest mistake he made and of course, we made decisions to not hit back at the others, which I think you're correct there. We should have. Last question, though. You've brought up something here that I think people need to get their arms around the great power struggle. Your point? We got about a minute. Your point is, hey, when you put this amount of assets in as commander in chief, you don't really have options of not using it. Is that where we are right now in the greater war with the China and unfortunately the Russian partnership, that right now if we get this many assets in there, they're going to be used?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Well, there's nothing as determinist, so we can always. And I think President Trump has demonstrated that he is ability to make decisions contrary to popular opinion or determinism. But I think we're in a position right now where everything's moved forward and the Iranians are not compromising. So if they're not going to compromise, there's only one other solution.

[Steve Bannon]

Captain Fennell, where do we get your writings? I know occasionally you're putting stuff up on American greatness. Is that, is that where we should go and look?

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Yeah, that's probably the best for me. Yeah.

[Steve Bannon]

Captain, thank you so much for taking time away. We look forward to seeing you on Monday and tracking this.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Thank you.

[Steve Bannon]

Captain Jim Fennell, former head of Naval Intelligence for the Pacific Fleet. Okay. We're going to pivot now to economic nationalism. Yesterday, was it a death blow, as the media once reported, to President Trump's redoing of commercial relationships through trade deals and tariffs? Or did they shut the front door but open up the back door? We have two experts, Spencer Morrison of the classic book Reshoring, and of course, our own E.J. antoni, one of the smartest guys out there about the American worker. We'll take a short commercial break. Take your your phone out. Now more than ever, you should be talking to Birch Gold. Take your phone and text Bannon B A N N Owen at 989-898. You get the ultimate guide totally free, no obligation for investing in gold and precious metals in the age of Trump. Short commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Bass.

[Steve Bannon]

You know, one of the things we try to do here, whether it's geopolitics, capital markets, everything related to the fight, the legal aspects, the fight for our country, obviously lots of economics, populist, economic nationalism, we always try to put you ahead of the curve by bringing the smartest people that really talk, understand topics and really talk it through. That's why Captain Fanell and look, obviously I disagree with a lot about this Iranian situation, but the reality is he's been dead spot on about the military aspect of this. What's interesting, Sam Fada is going to join us later. It's going to come down to intel. I think a lot of this is going to come down to intelligence. Exactly where the military in Iran is, where the ayatollahs are, not physically where they are. But what this really is President Trump's incremental because obviously he's running that up the flagpole. Is there a chance to do incrementalism here or are the Persians just going to negotiate, which they're famous for, negotiate to have another negotiation. That's why we had Trita Parsi on last night. Now, he's quite pro Iranian, but he brought up the part that I think has to be addressed immediately. We're not in direct negotiations with them. It's all this Kabuki theater where they talk to, you know, they're in man and they got Oman, they're here, they talk and they go in another room and talk. Even Trita realizes that with this type of military surrounding them, you got to stop with the formalities and drop the intermittent. You got to get in a room with Kushner and you got to get in a room with Steve Witkoff, the president's emissaries and see if there's a deal. If there's not a deal, then the balloon's gonna go up.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Folks.

[Steve Bannon]

I want to pivot now. Okay, President Trump and trying to. He's doing something to change 50 years of sellout of the American worker. Number one is the big beautiful bill, which is the supply side. It maximizes, to the extent you can, the reinforcement of investment in capital equipment in the United States to bring manufacturing jobs back. Because President Trump has seen through the folly of gutting our manufacturing and trying to turn us into a service economy. Everybody that told you on Wall street and all these puns would not kind of wrong. They're dead wrong. Now he's redoing the commercial relationships. He's using trade deals and tariffs as a forcing function to force international operations to make their plant and equipment here and therefore hire American workers and have this whole ecosystem around manufacturing that will rejuvenate our economy based upon a plan written by Alexander Hamilton that is just one level down from the Declaration of Independence in the Constitution Institution. The report on manufacturers that the genius Alexander Hamilton wrote in his earliest days as the first Secretary of the Treasury. And you heard Scott Besson talk about it yesterday at the Dallas Economic Club. And I want to reinforce Rob Sig and Parker Sig to play that entire thing yesterday shows you the difference between real America's voice and other channels. Other channels are going to run around and talk about the noise of the day here. It's pure signal all the time. Now. The Supreme Court has stepped into there. E.J. and Tony, we read your text message you sent me from the train. You're coming from Wall street back to the Capitol. Walk me through what you had to say yesterday. Your feelings, because the left's out there today. There's a spike in the football. It's illegal. It's illegitimate. Trump's a dictator. The Supreme Court stood up to him. It's separation of powers. But also you brought up this act from 1930 that gives Trump even more leverage. President Trump even more leverage. Give us your assessment, sir.

[Spencer Morrison]

Yeah. Steve, it's amazing to hear the people on Miz now and all the other loser networks talk about how Trump's a dictator. He's the worst dictator ever. The people that he got on the Supreme Court voted against him. Are you kidding me? I've never seen a dictator fail to get his way on so many different things. Regardless, doesn't matter. Let's. Let's get into the. The meat of this. Steve, you're absolutely right. You can go Back to the Tariff act of 1930, section 338 of that of that law. And again, this is almost 100 years old here. All right, this is not as if it's some newfangled thing along with, you know, the tariff acts of the, in the, and the trade acts in the 60s and 70s, we've seen them be used, we've seen them be held up in court. If we go back to this particular law, though, from 1930, it actually gives the chief executive the ability to issue tariffs up to 50%. And if he wants to go beyond that, he can issue outright embargoes. So again, this is an incredibly powerful law. And what he, in order to do that, Steve, what he needs is to find as a fact the law says that there has been some kind of discrimination against U.S. commerce. Well, that is an incredibly broad definition. It's a very large umbrella under which you will find everything that Trump is trying to fight against. When the Chinese engage in intellectual property theft, when they engage in subsidization of industry and dumping of products here in the United States, when Canada imposes quotas on, on US Dairy, when you have American automotive manufacturers who face unfair trading practices, whether they be tariff or non tariff barriers in the eu, I mean, you name it, all of the different things that were cited in that book that Greer and his folks put together last year, all of the different unfair trading practices from around the world, all of these different discriminations against US Commerce that are faced, that are instituted by other nations, again from literally around the globe, everything falls under the umbrella laid out in Section 338 of the Tariff act of 1930. And I believe, actually, if I, if I remember the opinion correctly in Justice Kavanaugh's dissent, I think he actually mentioned this law as well in his list of about half a dozen different tariff authorities the President can use. So Steve, what I'm getting at here is this, although getting rid of ipa, saying IPA no longer can be used, institute tariffs, that does limit the President in terms of his speed and his flexibility with which he can implement tariffs. But that's about it. This changes, in my opinion, this changes nothing in the long run. It has a short term impact on the President's trade policy. Absolutely. And again, it affects, I think, the speed and the flexibility he has in terms of making decisions with these negotiations. He can't necessarily make the snap decisions turning tariffs on and off. But again, as long as he can demonstrate some kind of discrimination against US Commerce as the law says, he finds it as a fact. It's a blank check.

[Steve Bannon]

Spencer, you've written the definitive. E.J. we're gonna come right back to it. Spencer, you've written the definitive book on reshoring the Tommy Couldn't have Been Perfect came out last year. Your assessment, E.J. saying, Hey, 301s232 is all the stuff we use in the first term. And I know Navarro and those guys, Jamison, Greer, they got all the analysis done. They're going to springboard this thing.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Forward.

[Steve Bannon]

Your assessment, sir, since you're the expert.

[E.J. Antoni]

Thanks for having me on the show, Steve. No, I agree with, I agree with my friend. The reality is, is that there are many, many different legal avenues for President Trump to impose further tariffs. This is sort of a hiccup along the road, but ultimately, I think this is a good opportunity for the president to sort of take stock and look at what we actually need to do to set up a trade policy that's not going to just be something that's at the whim of the presidency, but change the entire sort of economic, cultural shift. Right. What we have to do is we have to get back to the situation where we were 50 years ago, where tariffs were not simply being imposed on an ad hoc basis, but were baked into the fabric of the American legal and economic landscape. America prospered under the American system, which was derived again from Alexander Hamilton's report on manufactures. All throughout the 1800s, that period where America industrialized and the average worker grew to become the most prosperous worker in the world, all of that was done under a high tariff regiment. America had the highest average tariff rates in the world, over 40%. Over 40%. And that was at a time in history when we didn't have bulk shipping. That was at a time when, you know, foreign trade was not such a large proportion of our overall economy. So what President Trump wants to do at this stage.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah. How do you bake it in? President Trump can move mountains. You're saying, hey, the individual trade deals and redoing the commercial relationships is fine, but you're saying we have a deeper. He has a deeper challenge here. We gotta bake it into the. Into basically a tech bro oligarch and Wall street lords of easy money that are adamantly opposed to what you're saying, sir, right now they're spending all day in these fricking frontier labs trying to get rid of the American worker. So how are we gonna. I agree with you a million percent. Tell me how President Trump's gonna do that when you got both Wall street, the corporate America and most importantly the tech bros. That spit on the floor as soon as you mention that, sir.

[E.J. Antoni]

Now I mean it's an uphill battle, but it begins and ends with the American people. President Trump has to take this case directly to the American people and have people understand exactly what's going on. I think that this needs to be packaged in a way that people can understand. Everybody understands, you know, that national security is, is an important, you know, national security is of utmost importance. Package tariffs as a part of that. I mean, think about the national security concerns when America doesn't manufacture its own GPUs when we're in entering into the AI age, right? I mean, what about the fact the country doesn't manufacture, you know like light bulbs, ball bearings, engines. Right. The entire country is over the last 50 years has been integrated into a global economic system and in such a way that the economy is now dependent on foreign countries products.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang over a second, Spencer. E.J. are you buying Spencer's argument? And if you buy it, how do we do it?

[Spencer Morrison]

Well, Steve, it's a great question. Again, I think the President has a lot of options here, right? He has a lot of, of paths forward. Now. Would it be a whole heck of a lot easier if Congress gets on board? Absolutely. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's important to recognize all of the problems with international trade.

[Steve Bannon]

But, but hang on, hang on. This is why you guys are going to be the forefront of changes. The House Trump could not get. If you put it to. If you go back to the Republican conference and you go to the Hassett rule, which you have to have a majority of. Of the majority, right? You have to have enough in the House conference to put forward his trade policies today. If put to a vote of the House, let me be brutally Frank, would not do it because they're still neol. They're neoliberals. They're believing that school. They're raised on the mother's milk of Milton Friedman. They're not with Spencer Morrison, they're not with EJ And Tony. They're not with Donald J. Trump or they're not with Stephen K. Bannon, the populist nationalist. I mean E.J. you know these guys better than I do. And I'm not even talking about the Senate. Forget the Senate. I'm talking in the House. They may all sing out of the hymnal of President Trump and maga. But if you went in, put your, what you and Spencer Morrison are talking about, which I think is absolutely logical, how many Votes do you think we get, sir?

[Spencer Morrison]

Well, not enough, that's for sure. And Steve, look, this is why, and I'm not necessarily sure you need to get different people in there. You know, it. I think it actually was Milton Friedman. One of the things he said that I definitely agree with was that getting the right things through Congress is not necessarily a matter of getting the right people in there, but giving the wrong people the right incentives. In other words, it doesn't matter who you put in Congress necessarily. Necessarily. But if they know that voting against these things will result in their loss in the next election, then chances are they're going to change their mind and they're going to vote the way the people want them to. So I think the problem is maybe more so we have to change the hearts and minds of more voters out there. We need to get people to understand that the kind of ivory tower world from which Milton Friedman was, was often speaking is not what we have today. Look, if you are coming at this problem, or I should say if you're coming at any kind of situation from a perfectly idealistic world, then you would never want to impose tariffs. In other words, if everything is already fine, if there is no problem, you don't want to then impose tariffs. If the patient doesn't have cancer, you don't want to give them chemotherapy. But that's not the world we live in.

[Steve Bannon]

The mercantilist. In the mercantilist strategy of the Chinese Communist Party. Right. Which they learned from the British East India Company. We're gonna take a short commercial break. Spencer Morrison, the author of Reshoring and the great E.J. antoni, who knows more about the American working man than anybody in the United States of America. Also, we're going to Georgia in the crime of the century. Next in the War room, your host, Stephen K. Ban. Okay, Spencer, we're gonna have you back on. We have more time. Where do people go get to get reassuring? Where? They go to your site, sir.

[E.J. Antoni]

Hi, Steve. You can follow me on real SP Morrison on X. The book's available on Amazon. It's also available directly from Calamo Press. Reshore How Tariffs will Bring our Jobs Home, Revive the American Dream. You can also find my work on

[Steve Bannon]

National Economics editorial.com you did amazing job and great Delaney.

[Spencer Morrison]

What.

[Steve Bannon]

What brilliance. The timing of your books are exquisite. Thank you so much, Spencer. Feel better. We'll talk to you over the weekend. See you back here. We'll see you back here Monday. Spencer's very ill with the flu, but joined us. EJ Also we're going to get back. We've been sending your clips to everybody. Where did people go on us on Twitter this weekend to follow you, sir? We'll have you back on early in the week.

[Spencer Morrison]

Yeah, that'll be the best place to follow me, Steve. The handle there is at Real EJ Antony. And thank you so much for having me on, Steve. It's such an important issue. There's so much misinformation going around right now. So again, thank you for having me on and for helping to clarify all this.

[Steve Bannon]

No, we're going to have you on more. You have the back of the American working man and woman, sir. Okay. Harry Madougallan is going to join us, but we have a long cold open. You have to see from the mainstream media about Georgia. They're very focused on Harry. They're very focused on the team at Georgia. They're very focused on the war room. Let's hit it.

[Captain Jim Fennell]

Trump's visit comes amid escalating threats to federalized state run elections which would go against the Constitution, just that old thing. For now. A Trump aligned Georgia election board has declined to intervene in Fulton county. But notably, one of the five members left the door open to further action, telling reporters, quote, I'm waiting to see what happens with the DOJ and the FBI seizure and see what comes out of that.

[Josh Duncan]

Yeah, look, Donald Trump and his cast of characters that follow him as Republicans, this is all a solution in search of a problem and they want to try to fit their narrative of this election being rigged through this shiny object. And this shiny object, it's all been lies and continues to grow and they're doubling down on it. Look, if somebody shows up to the, the voter rights conversation, access to voting conversation fairly and squarely, then they're not trying to limit crowds, they're trying to open up access and just validate. That's what this should, should, should all be about. And it's all about those exceptions. What about that nurse who works a 24 hour shift to support her family that can't show up on election day, that has to mail in that ballot early? What about that person that's homebound due to an injury or an illness? The list goes on and on. Look, this is, this is an outright attempt for Donald Trump to put his thumb on the scale. You have to look no further than the FBI raids that had nothing to do with the 2020 election. That's been validated, certified, hand counted, double count, all of it. It has to do with sowing little seeds of doubt. So that he can claim fraud when they lose the midterms in 26.

[E.J. Antoni]

Mr. Duncan, I want to stay with you a sec on this, though, because in 2020, you were one of a handful of Republicans, really, across the country that actually stood up against Trump and maintained that you had seen no evidence of voter fraud that Trump was claiming. Do you think that there's anyone left in an elected position or an election administration position in Georgia who, if there were similar efforts to overturn the results of a future election, would actually be there and be in place to stand up to President Trump and the Republican apparatus?

[Josh Duncan]

I certainly hope so. I mean, that's the backbone of democracy. And it's interesting to see how Republicans react to me in my stance to push back as hard as I possibly can. In private, they're very supportive. They can't wait for Donald Trump to get out of the scene. They cannot explain tariffs or Greenland or weaponizing the Department of Justice or these ICE raids or even these vicious attempts to try to limit voting just to steer the election towards Republicans. But publicly, most of them lack the courage to say it out loud. Until Republicans have the courage to call Donald Trump out for being the worst mistake this country's ever made, they're still going to have those problems. And the best thing we can do as Democrats is win these elections, continue to win them fairly and squarely, continue to harness the momentum of this movement to push MAGA back into the closet and let us run this country in a way that's fair and equitable, even for the people that don't vote for us. I think that's an important cornerstone of democracy. Democracy.

[Steve Bannon]

Trump says he will issue executive order to get voter ID requirements before midterms. To TS point. And as you well know, elections are up to the states. So if the president issues this executive order, would it be illegal on its face? Would states be obligated to comply?

[Josh Duncan]

Well, if you believe in the Constitution like I do and every American should,

[Captain Jim Fennell]

the answer is yes.

[Josh Duncan]

Yes, it would be an illegal attempt to usurp democracy as we know it. These elections are not about the outcomes. They're about the process. And there's going to be ebbs and flows throughout time. Donald Trump wants to win through any means necessary. We've seen that since 2020. We've seen the disgusting attempts. He cares nothing about the law. He cares nothing about the Constitution. He only cares about the person looking at him in the mirror.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

The thing that makes me continue to worry about the unique threat that this administration at this hour poses to the Constitutional order is the unfolding January 6th. Not just the insurrection at the Capitol, but the recruiting of fake electors, the challenging of the results. If Mike Pence had not done the courageous thing, and I have liberal friends who say, why do you give him credit? I said, because you've never been in the Oval Office being yelled at, so shut up. This is our point about knowing people. Mike Pence, a braying mob out front

[Steve Bannon]

saying, hang Mike Pence with a gallows.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

With a gallows. Right. So he did the right thing. The strategy, as we know from Peter Navarro and others, was that they were going to delay the certification into the next week, week and a half, get toward the 20th, and then take it to the House, because there wouldn't have been a result out of the election. So what do you do? If he had, If President Trump had prevailed in the House, thereby offering a constitutionally sanctified remedy to an illegitimate result, what do you do? I don't know. And I think if he could do it, I think President Trump would do that again tomorrow. And if you want to be optimistic and say, well, yes, but it didn't happen, I just don't think we should be running that, making it that close. Run a thing. It's why I thought he was a unique threat. Argued against it. No one cared. And by the way, the folks who voted for him, their votes count absolutely as much as mine does. Right. I don't think he is an illegitimate president. I do not. You know, they said that about President Biden. I don't share that. A big, big part of this moment, and whether we emerge from it, is whether people are going to have the citizen capital, if you will, to accept a loss and to see a loss as seasonal as opposed to existential.

[Steve Bannon]

You know, you still need help from the boss. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.