THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON EPISODE 5007

Summary

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THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON — EPISODE 5007

Date: December 18, 2025
Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guests: Gabe Kaminsky (The Free Press), Sam Tanenhaus (historian & author)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The War Room with Stephen K. Bannon delves into two primary subjects:

1. Allegations of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Influence in U.S. Environmental Nonprofits (with investigative journalist Gabe Kaminsky)
2. The Roots of Modern Conservatism through Bill Buckley, Joe McCarthy, and the Conservative Movement (with historian Sam Tanenhaus)

Bannon and his guests explore how these themes intersect with today’s political struggles, the MAGA movement, and media narrative battles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alleged CCP Influence via U.S. Climate Nonprofits

Guest: Gabe Kaminsky ([03:51])

• Context:

  • Kaminsky details his exclusive reporting at The Free Press about 26 Republican state attorneys general formally requesting the DOJ investigate whether U.S.-based climate nonprofits are acting as unregistered foreign agents for the Chinese Communist Party, specifically through the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).

• Main Allegations:

  • A primary group named is the Energy Foundation China, headquartered in San Francisco but also registered in Beijing, and employing former Chinese government officials ([04:46]).
  • Kaminsky:

    "These top law enforcement officials are accusing US nonprofits of acting as foreign agents or sort of like secret lobbyists for the Chinese Communist Party."
    [05:00]

  • The foundation is reported to engage in anti-oil and anti-fossil fuel lobbying efforts in the U.S., which critics argue align with Chinese strategic interests ([05:40]).

• National Security Concerns:

  • Kaminsky discusses surging American attention toward climate protestors and their disruptive tactics, raising questions about outside influence ([07:47]).

• Bannon’s Framing:

  • Bannon ties the allegations to broader concerns about U.S.-China geopolitical rivalry:

    "The Chinese Communist Party has a total master plan geopolitically. Part of it is to hurt the United States when it comes to Trump’s full-spectrum energy dominance."
    [08:21]

• Legal Context & Likelihood of Action:

  • Kaminsky notes enforcement of FARA is rare and the DOJ (under AG Pam Bondi) only pursues cases deemed very serious (treason/espionage). It remains unclear if the DOJ will act on the AGs’ request ([09:28]).

• Memorable Quote:

  • "For decades from about 1988 to 2016 there were, I believe, under or around ten FARA prosecutions as a whole which really shows how much of an obscure law it’s been viewed as."
    — Kaminsky [09:49]

• Where to find Kaminsky’s work:

  • "You can read all my and my colleagues' reporting at thefp.com and follow me on X @GKaminskyBrother."
    [10:46]

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2. The Conservative Movement’s Intellectual Roots: Buckley, McCarthy, Coalitions, and Excommunications

Guest: Sam Tanenhaus ([11:00] onward)

a. Buckley, McCarthy, and the Early Conservative Network

• Bill Buckley's Anti-Communism:

  • Bannon:

    "Buckley was a devout Catholic and a hardcore anti-communist, was he not, just like Joe McCarthy?"
    [11:54]

  • Tanenhaus describes the admiration and ideological kinship between McCarthy and Buckley, tracing it to their Yale days.

    "He was and he liked McCarthy... McCarthy’s getting documentation from the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover... Buckley and Bozell realized that McCarthy himself was becoming the object of attack. They said, 'Why is that happening? It’s because liberals control the media.'"
    [12:03–13:32]

• Founding National Review:

  • Buckley decided to create a conservative intellectual platform to counter liberal dominance.

    "That’s how [National Review] came to be... the greatest conservative publication of its time."
    [13:45]

b. Communication, Populism, and Media Narratives

• Populist Rhetoric:
  • Bannon observes that McCarthy’s power lay not in rhetorical skill but in voicing the working/middle class’s concerns, anticipating Trump’s popular appeal:

    "His superpower was he said things the working class and middle class audience themselves were thinking but wouldn’t say—a forerunner of Donald Trump."
    [15:01]

  • Tanenhaus illustrates Buckley’s insight:

    "Buckley actually has a lot more in common with [working/middle class Catholics] than people realize, and so does Joe McCarthy."
    [16:47]

c. Controlling the Movement’s Boundaries: Excluding Allies

• Buckley’s Hard Choices – The John Birch Society, Ayn Rand, and Coalition Management

  • Buckley was initially supportive of the John Birch Society (JBS) and founder Robert Welch but became concerned as Welch’s conspiratorial views (e.g., accusing Eisenhower of being a communist) threatened the credibility of the movement.

    "Welch got involved in a conspiracy that wasn’t true... Buckley at first said so what if that’s what he thinks... but then the media is all over it."
    — Tanenhaus [28:57–40:23]

  • Buckley also distanced the movement from Ayn Rand over her atheism, instructing National Review’s Whittaker Chambers to critique her.

  • Tanenhaus explains how Buckley, Russell Kirk, and Barry Goldwater met privately to orchestrate Welch’s removal from legitimacy:

    "Buckley wrote the great attack on [Welch] in National Review, Russell Kirk wrote articles ... Goldwater told journalists we need to get rid of this guy... Buckley realized, 'we’re in it alone, we’re going to have to make the case.'"
    [41:30–44:20]

  • Buckley’s move was costly—dozens of angry letters, some drop in National Review subscriptions—yet is now seen as essential to modern conservatism’s respectability.

  • Bannon draws the parallel to today’s conservative world:

    "This is analogous to the Trump movement... Buckley made a decision that he needed to have the platform that determined who was in or who was out."
    [27:54]

d. Lessons on Media, Narratives, and Movement Building

• Narrative Control:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "It wasn’t that [McCarthy] didn’t have the facts... but he had let other people craft the narrative... and that's eventually what destroyed him... [Buckley and co.] were determined not to allow that to happen to the conservative movement."
    [24:43]

• Parallel to the Present:

  • Both Bannon and Tanenhaus highlight the ongoing struggle for narrative control, the importance of media independence, and the risk of definition by adversaries.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On CCP influence and energy:

  • Bannon:

    "Chinese Communist Party has a one-trillion-dollar trade surplus this year. The Chinese Communist Party has a total master plan geopolitically, part of it is to hurt the United States when it comes to Trump’s full spectrum energy dominance."
    [08:21]

• On populist conservatism:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "Burnham says [about regular people], 'The communism thing doesn’t seem that hard to us, why don’t we just get rid of them?' ... That, by the way, is the origin of Buckley’s probably most famous comment: 'I’d rather be governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone book than by the faculty of Harvard University.'"
    [15:42–16:14]

• On coalition building and boundaries:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "Everybody knows you have all kinds of people in your ground troops... but the leadership has to pass a certain test, and Welch wasn’t doing it, so Buckley pushed him out with regret."
    [47:05]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:51] Gabe Kaminsky on DOJ letter, climate groups, and CCP links
• [06:47] History of Energy Foundation China & scrutiny over time
• [09:28] DOJ’s limited FARA enforcement; challenges for state AGs
• [12:03] Sam Tanenhaus joins for deep dive on Buckley and movement history
• [13:32] Founding National Review as counter to mainstream/liberal media
• [15:42] Populist roots, Buckley’s working-class resonance
• [24:43] Narrative control, media, lessons from McCarthy’s downfall
• [27:54] Managing the conservative coalition—Birchers, Ayn Rand
• [41:30] Buckley/Kirk/Goldwater’s strategy to distance Robert Welch
• [47:05] Letters, backlash, and the importance of leadership credibility

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Episode Tone & Style

• Tone: Combative, reflective, historical
• Language: Blunt and irreverent (Bannon); measured, scholarly, story-rich (Tanenhaus); investigative and precise (Kaminsky)
• Style: Lively, anecdotal, historically informed, linking past conservative battles to present-day struggles

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Further Resources and Book Mentions

• Sam Tanenhaus’s book: Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America — discussed as essential for understanding the modern conservative movement ([47:05])
• Whitaker Chambers biography by Tanenhaus, noted as out of print but influential ([48:20])

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Summary Takeaways

• The episode connects current debates over CCP influence and energy policy directly to the intellectual and organizational struggles of conservatism’s formative years.
• Through both segments, key themes of outsider status, the importance (and difficulty) of narrative control, and the need to maintain both broad coalitions and movement credibility are emphasized.
• The parallels between MAGA/Trump’s populism and Buckley/McCarthy’s mid-century anti-communist coalition are front and center.

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For more reporting by Gabe Kaminsky: thefp.com
Sam Tanenhaus’s website: samtanenhaus.com
Book discussed: Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America (Random House)

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Transcript

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Will be saved war room here's your host stephen k ban.

[Steve Bannon]

Thursday the eighteenth of december yeovalor twenty twenty five you're around for the second hour of the morning edition of the war room sam tenenhouse going to join us in a moment our continual discussion about the bill buckley and his revolution gabe kaminsky joins right now from the free press and just serendipitously worked out it came after this print and after doctor peter navarro and ej antoni so gabe one of the foundational elements of president trump's economic policy is full spectrum energy dominance right you just heard peter say right there there's all kind of issues now with refineries all this it turns out you've got an exclusive report if we can put it up on the free press that it turns out a lot of these climate groups and do gooder groups are in association with the chinese communist party and they are quite deep into american energy policy and now at the state level people are waking up to this can you walk us through your exclusive investig report sir yeah thanks for.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

Having me that's according to what you just said there that's according to twenty six republican attorneys general so we had reported at the free press that these top law enforcement officials sent a letter to the department of justice this week requesting that attorney general pam bondi investigate whether a few different climate nonprofits in the united states focused on climate change or environmental causes may have failed to register under the foreign agents and registration act also known as farah on behalf of china and so effectively these top law enforcement officials are accusing us nonprofits of acting as foreign agents or sort of like secret lobbyists for the chinese communist party and the basis for that according to these officials is that for example one of these nonprofits it's called the energy foundation china it's based in san francisco but it also has an office in in beijing where it employs a whole host of former chinese government officials and is supervised by china's government directly because it is registered in beijing with china's nonprofit agency and coupled with the energy foundation china's advocacy in the united states related to anti oil litigation or congressional related advocacy that is against fossil fuel and production of oil the attorneys general think think that this group and others should have to register under.

[Steve Bannon]

Farrell i mean that's it's it's not just that they're a group and they're taking money or maybe association when you actually go after faro you're saying that their their their their purpose right is to represent the interest of another country in this case the chinese communist party how did it get because these things just didn't appear yesterday how long has this been going on and how have other doj officials and other state officials looked the other way on this so.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

The interesting thing about the energy foundation china is that this scrutiny is not new this is a charity that has been registered with the irs since nineteen ninety one and over the past five years roughly there has been heightened scrutiny of them particularly among republicans who are hawkish on china and believe that beijing is indirectly or directly propping up groups in the united states that have this anti oil agenda that is aiming to boost china which is i mean china trade tensions have you know you just had peter navarro who was talking about trade tensions trade tensions have continued to escalate between the united states and china beijing has been continuing to import oil from adversary other adversaries of the united states like venezuela and so coupled with that and the other sort of leg of this is that there has been heightened scrutiny in the united states of climate related organizations engaged in disruptive sort of protests in washington dc where i.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Live.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

The congressional baseball game every few years now there's climate protesters running on the field around the world there's been reporting about climate protesters throwing paint at fine art or gluing themselves to streets or cars which has only led american officials to believe this is a national security issue a national security issue paying to oil and energy and so the funding is aiming to look into that.

[Steve Bannon]

Further no i mean they're trying to stop refineries make the cost of american energy because it makes us competitive this is a group the chinese communist party has a one trillion dollars trade surplus this year ann folks think about that you talk about adversaries venezuela is bad enough but i said this you know even if you don't want to get in the middle of the israeli situation in the middle east i've been saying the iranians the mullahs are in business for one reason they basically have long term output deals with the chinese communist party i think iran or the persians provide fifty or sixty percent of the of the energy for the chinese communist party i mean the chinese communist party has a total master plan geopolitically part of it is to hurt the united states when it comes to trump's full spectrum energy dominance gabe do you expect action to be taken you said this has been reviewed for a while you get twenty six ags now it's a pam bondi she's swamped with so much we're arguing that doj has got to get up to brown university every day we're banging on them you know we love these folks but there's just so much to do are they going to have inside the group over there are they going to have the capacity to actually take on the ccp i reached.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

Out to the department of justice i did not hear back if you steve if you hear anything from people at doj you know let us all know but generally farah has long been a dormant office in fact for decades from about nineteen eighty eight to twenty sixteen they were i believe under or around ten farah prosecutions as a whole which really shows how much of an obscure law it's been viewed that that ramped up post twenty sixteen but right now after attorney general pam bondi issued a memo after she joined the trump administration that signaled to law firms and lobbying firms in washington that the doj was only focusing on the most serious what they determined to be the most serious ferro offenses what they determined to be cases that are treason or espionage and so on that basis it's really not clear if the department of justice would be what would you know put the resources into focusing on this but we have not heard back from the doj and my understanding from the state attorneys general is that they do you know it's a significant amount of states that call for this action and they do aim to have conversations with the doj to force this issue gabe where do.

[Steve Bannon]

People get you where they get your rings at free press and where they find your social media sir yeah you.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

Can read all mine my colleagues reporting at the fp dot com and follow me on xecominsky brother thank you so.

[Steve Bannon]

Much kaminsky it was fantastic great report we're going to push it out and we'll check in with doj to make sure there's some action being taken let us know sam tanenhaus marxism communism bill buckley with whitaker chambers and others fully supported mccarthy because they realized after the defeat of the fascist imperial japan the nazis and the italian fascists that communism right and one of them was our ally another one really wasn't that communism was going to be a massive massive problem and there's going to be a global conflict so he wrote a book was mccarthy and his enemies buckley did walk me through that because he's you know you see today you know we have navarro up here about the trade deficit you know the trade surplus of a trillion dollars by the ccp you got kaminsky saying hey they got people everywhere trying to do everything to bring the united states down including going after president trump's energy policy buckley was a devout catholic and a hardcore anti communist was he not just like joe mccarthy.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

He was and he liked mccarthy they met at yale when bill buckley was an undergraduate joe mccarthy came and gave a talk there in nineteen forty eight buckley was involved with a political union there campus grew the republican party the party of the right conservatives and they always like to have big speakers come through nineteen forty eight important midterm elections we know all about those and the only guy they could get was joe mccarthy who wasn't famous yet but he was getting onto this issue of anti communism of how much the gatekeepers were withholding about what they really knew that's what mccarthy was about how many communists are there really who are the names let's have them and he was very aggressive about it and buckley agreed with him and in fact his main mentor guy named wilmore kendall brilliant political scientist one of the most talented thinkers of that era still read today steve said to buckley watch this guy mccarthy he's stirring something he's stirring something he's reaching the people with this argument not the elites he's reaching the public and another one of buckley's mentors another intellectual giant james burnham said the same thing and he said keep your eye on mccarthy mccarthy is not going to get everything right but he's going to ask the big questions and he's going to push it out with the public and see it so buckley said i'm down with that and he and his brother in law brent bozell very important figure in some ways as important as buckley as a thinker they decide what's happening to mccarthy is that the opposition the enemies as they called them is controlling the debate they're saying no let's not listen to what mccarthy says let's take mccarthy himself down who is joe mccarthy he's getting x wrong he's getting y wrong he's inventing stuff he doesn't have the goods meanwhile mccarthy's getting documentation from the fbi jed hoover and they realized buckley and bozell that the mccarthy himself was becoming the object of attack and they said why is that happening it's because liberals control the media that's how buckley came up with the idea of founding national review it will be the beachhead it will be the counter argument that'll be airtight super smart really fun to read that's going to stand up against the liberal tide and make that case for the anti communism that's how it came to be that was the greatest publication conservative publication of its time i'm.

[Steve Bannon]

Going to get to national review in a minute this is you say something in the book that that really hit me in the solar plexus and it goes back to last night you said they couldn't figure out because he was he had gone and it was clare booth luce loose his wife at time magazine that he saw speak at one of the republican conventions and she was so magnificent she had wit she had class she knew how to put the rapier in she had everything as a speaker and he realized that mccarthy was the exact opposite but i think somebody told him that the power of mccarthy wasn't his rhetoric he wasn't a great speaker but they had a power and his superpower was he said things that the working class and middle class audience themselves were thinking but wouldn't say very much a forerunner of donald trump is.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

He not yeah i'll give you an example of that steve probably the greatest intellectual in the buckley orbit was his philosopher and scholar james burnham whose book the manager or a revolution i think we talked about this inspired george orwell's nineteen eighty four burnham did a thing every year he was very much an elite guy top of his class at princeton educated at oxford after that professor at nyu georgetown apartment he would take a trip he'd take a road trip for about six weeks and he'd go out to the country and he'd talk to regular people and they would say the communism thing doesn't seem that hard to us why don't we just get rid of them why are we creating a talking shop about them they're coming after us why don't we go after them in return and burnham says they're right they're right that by the way is the origin of buckley's really probably most famous comment i'd rather be governed by the first two thousand names in the boston telephone book than by the faculty of harvard university it began with that that if you listen buckley fantastic listener people remember how much style he had as a talker great listener he's hearing something else coming out there from the people and he's also at his church goes to church every sunday right his mother was a daily communicant you know what that means she went to mass every single day buckley's very close to her he didn't go every day on sunday he wanted to hear the old classic latin mass he's an altar boy his fellow parishioners they are not rich guys in connecticut it's a working class and middle class buckley actually has a lot more in common with them than people realize and so does joe mccarthy so i add one more name to this thing steven it's interesting william casey yeah go ahead go ahead hang.

[Steve Bannon]

On sam we're going to take a short commercial break i want to finish this entire story when we return to the war room.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

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[Steve Bannon]

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Continue on sir well so they realize mccarthy's the voice they need but you have to be careful because you have a large media landscape what we call an ecosystem it's a lot different back then it's very easy to get cornered as being extremist militant and not permitted into the conversation buckley called them the racket club rules which is great because buckley comes out of that background himself and that's the genius of it so he can he can now we call it steve we call it code switching right you can talk to different groups of people in different ways but he was a genius at that again cuz he's a great listener i want to say something by the way about president trump that i think gets missed i was just telling a report of this trump is a much better listener than people realize look how much of that first campaign came out of the talk radio he was absorbing i mean where do you think that language comes from you know i wrote a piece you may remember about josh green's book about you you and donald trump number one bestseller and i mentioned how some of the language the candidate trump used about the border came out of the language of border patrol people at the time twenty fifteen sixteen but was treated as this outrageous kind of provocation and people heard that language who were involved in border enforcement this guy actually sounds like us that was part of buckley's thing he's a great verbal guy he's a word guy he's a listener he's an excellent musician he speaks all these languages everything comes to him through his ears he hears things and then turns them around figures out how to do his own take on them and mccarthy was the guy who unlocked the mystery for how to get the public to understand this threat.

[Steve Bannon]

In going forward he realized too something important and something very important for us today alex jones in the show last night in ending his his analysis of the speech said cry havoc and unleash the dogs of information warfare buckley and bozell and the rest realized in mccarthy getting banged up that it wasn't that he didn't have the facts it wasn't that he didn't have a thing that people would rally around but he had let other people craft the narrative or put the architecture around the narrative and that's eventually what destroyed him and they were determined not to allow that to happen to the conservative movement is that generally true yeah i'll tell.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

You how buckley knew this too steve it's an episode in the book really important after edward r murrow you know the great cbs broadcaster went after mccarthy which he began to do by the way after mccarthy had begun to slide right he's very shrewd that way in the spring of nineteen fifty four he went after mccarthy very hard and buckley had been writing this book with bozell they're going through dossiers if you look at this book it was a bestseller but one reason people were surprised by it and mccarthy himself had trouble reading him was it was so densely footnoted you know it's constructed out of all these particular investigations of people's ideological histories of their possible compromises when they're working in government and all the rest and so buckley had all the data is a young guy he's a great debater probably the greatest debater of his time so edward r murrow says to mccarthy well if you don't like he said this on the air how i've been treated you can come on and robotny well mccarthy is now barnstorming through wisconsin elections coming up nineteen fifty four mccarthy is the number one draw by the way for the republicans in the midterms so buckley said mccarthy says well i don't i don't have time to talk to you but i know a young guy who does bill buckley will go on the air and refute you for thirty minutes buckley told me he's sitting at home watching on tv the tv news and mccarthy says this he almost falls off his chair says so they're going to let me go on the air and make the case for mccarthy's crusade and then what happens murrow sends a telegram that says this extension senator this invitation senator mccarthy is only for you you can't have somebody else come on and make the case instead because he knew very well that if buckley had that half hour he'd be able to make a really strong case he wanted nothing to do with buckley that's one reason buckley had to start the magazine if they're not gonna platform him as we say in the mainstream media where's he gonna make the case start your own magazine just like nowadays people start their own podcast they go online buckley was a pioneer of all that if they won't let you in into the club start your own club let's.

[Steve Bannon]

Talk about that national review gets started and then there's this issue i guess in the late fifties or maybe early sixties and it kind of is not directly analogous but it's some of the things that are going on today where tucker has somebody on his podcast nick fuentes or others and people melt down about it mccarthy and walk us through how this happened because you had many elements in this coalition and he realized you needed a coalition but you had the john bircher's which i will say if you look back over some of the stuff before the birchers maybe got a little too crazy a lot of the stuff that birches stood for turned out to be right you also had the objectivist ayn rand i'm not a libertarian but it did have alan greenspan in there and you might say hey it was kind of a weird cult but they had some of the biggest thinkers in fact a guy that was one of the most powerful federal reserve chairs ever buckley made a decision at some point in time that they needed to go he needed to be the he needed to have the platform that determined who was in or who was out who actually got heard and who didn't get hurt can you walk us.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Through that yeah here's what happened steve buckley knew ayn rand he'd met her through anti communist circles in the fifties and he also knew robert welch the founder of the john birch society who's really begun in a secret meeting in indianapolis late nineteen fifty eight organizations start in nineteen fifty nine buckley supported robert welch and the birch society for a couple of years he thought they were great they're getting the grassroots people out there who's gonna knock on the doors to get people to the polls on primary day who's gonna get them out to vote for conservative candidates welch was doing this through his organization ayn rand buckley was a little he was like you you know he's not sure he loves the totally libertarian atheist arg time buckley met ayn rand buckley said this she said to him mister buckley you're too intelligent to believe in god buckley said i didn't love hearing that he liked your first novel the fountainhead but then when atlas shrugged came out that's her magnum opus buckley was uncomfortable with it because of the atheism because he thinks anti communism and ayn rand was a russian emigre jewish russian emigre he thinks it has to be fought through a kind of moral religious crusade so he says who's the best writer i've got who can take down ayn rand oh i know whitaker chambers one of the greatest writers alive so he takes ayn rand down in national review now that was in nineteen fifty seven the birches come next and buckley if you look and i have this in the book if you look at the early issues of national review when the john birch society was founded buckley was all for it he says this guy's organizing at the grassroots level buckley and his friends will do the intellectual combat right buckley would go to campus and i'm hearing now from people who say they remind him of charlie kirk go on campus bring your best debater on i will take them on but there are other people who aren't on college campuses and the john birch society through robert welch is organizing them in chapters it's actually modeled welch did not deny this in fact he was proud of it it's modeled on the american communist party we're gonna have small cells we're gonna educate people in the community and they will carry the fight hey you got some leftists on your school board there do we really want them let's have a campaign let's have a vote so buckley likes them but then what happens is and we know about this you're right steve this is where the parallel comes in in his own writings welch was very conspiratorial minded you know now look vice president vance just told us i believe in comparison conspiracies that are true well welch got involved in a conspiracy that wasn't true he was really convinced that dwight eisenhower was a communist agent and buckley at first said so what if that's what he thinks he's allowed to think it the as they called them the little old ladies in tennis sneakers and the retired generals and businessmen in small towns who are by the way the backbone of the john birch society right he's very upstanding citizens right he says they're not saying this stuff who cares what robert welch says.

[Steve Bannon]

Well immediately took advantage of hang on a second i want to get to the punchline after a short break sam tenenhouse make sure you've got time to give it as a christmas gift buckley the life and the revolution that changed america if you want to understand maga and where maga came from the roots we've kind of gone in a different direction but you got to understand buckley in the buckley conservative revolution short commercial break sam tanenhaus next.

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[Steve Bannon]

War room here's your.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Host stephen k band.

[Steve Bannon]

Citizen kane over at citizens free press by the way that was ranked the fifteenth most powerful media operation by mediaite so a hat tip to cain they put up a story that they two by twenty thirty five two trillion dollars a year we will spend in interest on the national debt think about the two trillion dollars a year on interest scott bessen's running the irs now and also being secretary of treasury they're going to get every penny they think they're owed now i know you may have a different opinion what you think you owe them therein lies the rub and that's why you need tax network usa eight hundred nine five eight one zero zero zero tell them the war room sent you tell them ban essentially they'll give you a free consultation they've heard it all before there's nothing on any of those letters you have in the drawer irs is saying that you've done or failed to do that they haven't seen and worked out but you got to get in touch with eight hundred nine five eight one zero zero zero particularly do it year of year end the irs is in the business of making deals you're in do it today one eight hundred nine five eight one zero zero zero tax network usa go check it out also home title lock make sure on home title lock every dream you've ever had is in that home if you're lucky enough to own one the average age of a first time homebuyer is forty years old that's not acceptable president trump's working on it make sure that ownership at home doesn't turn into a nightmare with either ai advanced cyber rogue lawyer accountant rogue relative maybe someone close to you get into that title and take out a i don't know hard money loan from a hard money lender that you got to pay back hometitle dot com comma promo code steve or promo code bannon is it bannon or steve i think it's steve they give you fourteen days free on the one million dollar triple lock protection check it out talk to natalie dominguez and the team at home tidal lock do it today on both of those take away the anxiety take away the angst get it done today sam tanenhouse continue sir these are so good i could sit.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here all day and do it well.

[Steve Bannon]

No hang on hang on first off first off the book just got audience we never give you chop liver here the book just got nominated for one of the most or the most prestigious award in biography what is it it's.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Called the national book critics circle award steve it's critics across the country so it's one of ten books they're all great books obviously but there it is and the publisher told me about this the other day very pleased about it so this is their long list then they cut it down to another group and the winner you know will be announced and prices are nice i mean i've been up for a few i've even you know won one or two and it's great but you know it's really about getting the book out there so readers get at it and so this is you know it's like a you know certification a gold seal you know so that's so very happy about that but let's get on to the important stuff here which is that buckley realizes the but the john birch society is doing really good work and he's all for them the problem is welch has got these extreme theories and while the rank and file don't pay attention to them guess who does the media is all over it and so they create stories of publishing stories all the time give you an example you know we think we're living in sort of extreme times now in nineteen nineteen fifty nine or a little later nineteen sixty sixty one the john bush society is now really big and it's you know at the most maybe it's forty or fifty thousand members could be less than that some have said as many as one hundred thousand but that's enough if they're organized to make a difference in politics and in communities which is what they're all about so robert welch announces they're going to have a college competition to see who can write the best essay saying the chief justice of the supreme court earl warren should be impeached and it's going to be an essay that makes the constitutional or case for removing him the new york times reported that on page one as if it's an invasion coming from mars it's an essay contest but they managed to scare people about it and and welch himself doesn't get it he viewed himself as an educator right all this is in my book so buckley says okay now we have a problem the problem but.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on hang on i do i want to bring up i want to bring because this is analogous to the trump movement and people don't lose us the two things that welch went after eisenhower and there was it sounds crazy in the surface but he did have some logic to it internal logic it made sense to him yeah eisenhower was a republican president earl warren was a republican chief justice of the supreme court it's not like he's going after he's going after people that they considered the established order of the republican and conservative.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Party correct correct earl warren was was put on the supreme court in part because he had been a pretty strong contender in nineteen fifty two to be president he'd been on the the republican ticket as a vice president in nineteen forty eight he's republican establishment one of his proteges a guy named william noland bill noland was far to the right of nixon from california this it's the republican establishment that the national review and buckley had their own term for it they called it the liberal establishment capital l capital you had to keep telling the editors at random house no you can't lowercase it it's a liberal establishment because they saw it as going across both parties you know kind of what we would call a blob or something or deep state today that if you go in the big kind of muddle middle the two parties kind of sound like each other this is what buckley's genius was to lead an insurgency against it you wouldn't know anything about that steve they didn't have a conservative they didn't have conservatism inc back then you know you and some other people came up with that term it didn't exist it didn't exist when i wrote my little book on conservatism fifteen years ago on how the establishment was coming apart i didn't think i didn't use that term it didn't exist well buckley and company see the same thing robert welch they realize is very effective but they also know that establishment is going to do what you always do with the movement is you go to the person at the top buckley first wrote a brilliant defense of robert welch defense in national review nineteen sixty one and he says listen what liberals like even less than a weak conservative movement is a strong conservative movement that's their fear and welch is making it stronger but once welch himself became super vulnerable cuz he can't stop himself he goes on television and he starts repeating this stuff about eisenhower and buckley and others are saying this is not going to work so steve here's who got together in a private hotel room in interesting way for it palm beach to figure out what to do about it bill buckley was one the great conservative writer and thinker russell kirk was another and a senator who is kind of making waves from arizona who comes in dressed like a cowboy named barry goldwater buckley wrote a great account of it a reminiscence through the end of his life and he said barry goldwater had a briefcase but if he ever opened it that entire meeting at the breakers i never saw him do it they're there and they agree welch is the problem not the birchers welch himself so buckley even warned him cuz he liked welch buckley kind of liked everybody and he said look you're gonna see me coming after you i am not coming after the organization but i'm saying we have a problem with you so they organized buckley wrote the great attack on him in national review russell kirk who's super respected in the intellectual world wrote articles in america liberal jesuit catholic magazine going after welch and goldwater told reporters he told journalists we need to get rid of this guy what are the reporters in the mainstream press do they leave it out on their stories in goldwater they want to still pin the birchers on him goldwater couldn't believe it he said i talked to this guy from the new york times and i told him we're getting rid of welch and he wouldn't report it so you think this stuff happens in later times it was happening even more back then so buckley realized we're in it alone we're going to have to make the case in a way that will finally get some props from the establishment so buckley wrote this brilliant like five or six page analysis of all the holes in welch's arguments and he finally starts to get some credit from really the most important columnist of the time james reston at the new york times says buckley has written a brilliant dismantling so here's a lesson they all learned steve which i found when i was an editor i was an op editor editor at the new york times and i would call conservatives and they would say i just fell off the chair i can't believe they hired you and the reasons they thought they would only get approached to write about something when they went after their own side and so i would say no we want to hear other things you have to say too but things that opened up this is like the nineties which is still a long time ago but not back in the sixties so buckley saw they had to push welch out that brought in twelve hundred angry letters from subscribers and it really damaged national review for a while but then the publisher bill rusher who supported welch and thought buckley was making a mistake he tried to broker a truce with welch many years later not long before he died bill rusher told me i was wrong buckley was right we had to make that move and i looked closely at buckley's writing at the time because he would send letters out to everybody saying what are you doing why are you coming after this guy who's on our side and buckley said if the people in the middle think the leadership of our movement or one faction of it is controlled by someone who's you know on the fringe that will damage us doesn't matter everybody knows you have all kinds of people in your ground troops right pat buchanan was great with his pitchfork crusade yeah you bring everybody in but the leadership has to pass a certain test and welch wasn't doing it so buckley pushed him out with regret but when he had to be buckley could be very isoly pragmatic and that's what he did and.

[Steve Bannon]

Very tough fascinating we're going to continue this over the holidays sam where do people go to get the book the book is number one in a bunch of categories now the warren posse loves it i've gotten tremendous feedback a great gift particularly for someone maybe younger on your list on your christmas list that maybe doesn't have the background the historical background of the country the conservative movement and particularly a giant like bill buckley of course don't hold against what the national reviews turned into we're gonna get.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

To that as we that's another story well as you know because of our first broadcast random house reprinted and it takes a while to do that they are on amazon you can go on amazon and you'll see whatever number is left in stock but you can order them anybody who wants to get in touch with me and i'm hearing from some great listeners it's my website samtanenhouse dot com just send me an email and we'll have a conversation but it's in bookstores still i've been doing talks and at clubs and their private clubs are able to get the the book through bookstores but amazon's still a good place and there'll be more available there.

[Steve Bannon]

I'M told what about your people tell me the whitaker chambers book is sold out are they going to restock the.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Whitaker chambers i have to ask them at random house because i discovered that too yeah they're out of stock now you can get it on kindle but some people just like to have the you know the book gotta have so i will ask them about that yeah they ran out thanks to you thanks.

[Steve Bannon]

For our conversations this weighs in at over a thousand pages people got to get this this is a prestige book sam it's so great to have you on here and thank you for taking time away i know your schedule is really busy but thank you taking your time and joining us here in the.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

War room it's been a pleasure steve anytime.

[Steve Bannon]

Thank you sir see how many the birchers the libertarians forced out the stories are all in there they're amazing the personalities you'll see reagan young reagan nixon goldwater all of them and bill buckley the intellectual the public intellectual giant of it all we're going to take a short commercial break and musically leaves us out is take down the chinese communist party isn't it interesting that back from nineteen forty nine on and remember mccarthy was really about who lost china so is henry lucid time magazine who lost china who lost it the state department that was riddled with communists short commercial break back in the warm in a moment.

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[Steve Bannon]

War room here's your host.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Stephen k band.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay we're all over the ella cook situation at brown and also the situation down in savannah with the acid attack more on that throughout the putting stuff up on getter all day grayson mo they're going to get up before we do to amfest we're going out there and shifting the flag afternoon show will be out there hosted by a collection of folks i'll be out there a little later today and we're going to have a great weekend and security out there supposed to be fantastic so we got to make sure that security around the country for the rest of the ella cooks is beyond solid and that's what we need the fbi to step in right now and take over that investigation and tell us about ella cook we need to know about her cameron kinsey former white house official staffer over there you know scott bess is now in charge of the irs the great citizen kane who by the way mediates as the fifteenth most powerful site out there put up this analysis that showed in a couple of years ago we're spending two trillion dollars a year in interest payments on the debt right and the debt's going to be out of control by then so the irs and scott bessen has told the president hey everything that we're rightfully owed we're going to get now the gap is between what they feel they're owed and what you know what the citizen feels are owed and that is where in the middle of that is where tax network usa come in take.

[Gabe Kaminsky]

It away ma' am yes well thank.

[Tax Network USA Representative]

You so much for having me steven and you're exactly right no matter who's in office we are going to continue to fight for hardworking americans tax network usa if people don't know we're one of america's leading tax firms we specialize in helping individuals small business owners really just take on the irs and whether that's audits whether that's back taxes wage garnishments unfiled returns we have a team of licensed cpas enrolled agents experienced tax attorneys even former irs agents who just know the tax code inside and out they know how the irs operates and they know how to to push back effectively steve and you know the truth is the irs sometimes doesn't care who's in charge politically and you know this they've stayed aggressive and so our job is just to protect hardworking americans but we're not just here to file your taxes we are truly here to fight for you and that's really the difference between us and another company who may just give cookie cutter advice and vanish when things get tough we've i mean again we've helped eliminate billion dollars in tax debt we approach every single case strategically and personally steve because we share the same values of the people watching this show we want limited government we want less bureaucratic nonsense and we're protecting people from these weaponized institutions that we've seen in the past so that's really just how we approach every single case we try to make it as simple and strategic as possible it starts with a direct consultation with one of our team members a lot of people called in previously during the black friday sale to get that free discovery call but really our initial free consultation is just to dive into your picture a little bit deeper we want to see the full financial picture see how we can help and if you decide you want to move forward after that free call we flag every deduction we fix any error that we may see we make sure that your filings are clean and accurate and audit proof so even though we've seen those deadlines pass you know if you've gotten those irs or irs letters in the mail do not wait a lot of people want to stuff those in a drawer they get they get really scared to take on the irs they don't even know where to start and i'm here to tell you the average american does not know the tax code inside and out i can tell you right now i am not a tax expert myself but we have experts in your corner and that's why it is so important to have help on your side and so if you do want to get started we do just recommend like bring your w two s bring the irs letters bring the financial records anything that shows proof of hardship like medical bills proof of income loss but don't worry if you don't have it all organized either that's really just a part of what we do as well so don't panic if it's not all gathered if documents are missing our team can actually assist with that as well steve obtain copies from the irs or other sources so we're just focused on building a robust case for our clients and it's very easy to get started with us i'll give you that number it's one eight hundred nine five eight one zero zero zero and we take extra care of our war room posse we love you guys so much and you can go to tnusa dot com bannon as well you can fill out a quick form and one of our team members will reach out to as soon as possible the end.

[Steve Bannon]

Of the year is the best time to do this get the angst give yourself a gift for the holidays take away the angst take away the worry go to tax network usa eight hundred nine five eight one zero zero zero they've heard it all before they've settled a billion dollars of this you're not going to tell them anything new get there get a safe pair of hands cameron merry christmas ma' am love working with you this year fantastic work fantastic.

[Tax Network USA Representative]

Thank you so much steve appreciate you.

[Steve Bannon]

God bless that's maga right there cameron kinsey mike lindell i am so so proud of you brother the way you're running this campaign but that's a topic for a different day we're closing in on christmas brother and everybody's telling me they want to give the gift of my pillow to support the causes that you fight for sir where do they go what do they do and what do you got well the news is.

[Mike Lindell]

Everybody this is the last few hours you need to get your order ordering so get them now this is it we put remember we put our five flagship products on sale for the war room posse and exclusive there you got the my pillow six piece towel says half price thirty nine point nine eight all the slippers the best gift ever for christmas give the gifts the best slippers ever thirty nine point nine eight giza dream sheets you guys we have all the size everything's available as low as twenty as low as twenty nine point nine eight then you have the mypillow premiums and the mypillow mattress topper and so if you go to mypillow dot com war room everybody you go to the website there's just a few of the crosses left there's like twenty some of the crosses left and get those you can still like i say this is the last four hours where you can get to take that christmas delivery guaranteed christmas delivery option promo code war room now as you go down you guys there's over two hundred and fifty items there gifts there's all the stuff for the kitchen those are we put everything on sale for these last few hours so you guys do your shopping there and i want to tell you mystore dot com to you guys there you see that square you can use promo code war room there that's over a thousand entrepreneurs made in the usa they need support at this time of year and then you call eight hundred is made in the usa they need support at this time of year and then you call eight hundred eight seven three one zero six two my operators downstairs they know this is the the last four three three four hours left you guys you get your orders in promo code war room everything's on sale for christmas and merry christmas this is it everybody get your items now the best christmas gifts in history go.

[Steve Bannon]

Back to work now mike lindell we'll see at five o' clock thanks steve hardest working man in showbiz right there want to thank sam tannenhouse once again want to thank the team at rev last night tremendous coverage from pro trump's speech and afterwards just great charlie kirk show is next with andrew colvette posos up you got gruber you got bowling they're actually i think already at m fest gonna have our crew out there i will see you later tonight and tomorrow and over the weekend make sure you stick around the charlie kirk show is next and they're going to be rocking it out in phoenix see you later.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from public the investing platform for those who take it seriously on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks bonds options crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with ai it all starts with your prompt from renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over twenty percent year over year you can literally type any prompt and put the ai to work it screens thousands of stocks builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the s and p five hundred then you can invest in a few clicks generated assets are like efts with infinite possibilities completely customizable and based on your thesis not someone else's go to public dot com podcast and earn an uncapped one percent bonus when you try transfer your portfolio that's public dot com podcast paid for by public investing brokerage services by open to the public investing inc member finra sipc advisory services by public advisors llc sec registered advisor generated assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice complete disclosures available at public dot com disclosures season two.

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

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Gifts for my furry friend from petsmart.

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Plus my personal shopper brings everything i.

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[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

P t com this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human.