THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON — EPISODE 5007

Date: December 18, 2025
Podcast: Real America’s Voice
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guests: Gabe Kaminsky (The Free Press), Sam Tanenhaus (historian & author)

Episode Overview

This episode of The War Room with Stephen K. Bannon delves into two primary subjects:

1. Allegations of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Influence in U.S. Environmental Nonprofits (with investigative journalist Gabe Kaminsky)
2. The Roots of Modern Conservatism through Bill Buckley, Joe McCarthy, and the Conservative Movement (with historian Sam Tanenhaus)

Bannon and his guests explore how these themes intersect with today’s political struggles, the MAGA movement, and media narrative battles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alleged CCP Influence via U.S. Climate Nonprofits

Guest: Gabe Kaminsky ([03:51])

• Context:

  • Kaminsky details his exclusive reporting at The Free Press about 26 Republican state attorneys general formally requesting the DOJ investigate whether U.S.-based climate nonprofits are acting as unregistered foreign agents for the Chinese Communist Party, specifically through the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).

• Main Allegations:

  • A primary group named is the Energy Foundation China, headquartered in San Francisco but also registered in Beijing, and employing former Chinese government officials ([04:46]).
  • Kaminsky:

    "These top law enforcement officials are accusing US nonprofits of acting as foreign agents or sort of like secret lobbyists for the Chinese Communist Party."
    [05:00]

  • The foundation is reported to engage in anti-oil and anti-fossil fuel lobbying efforts in the U.S., which critics argue align with Chinese strategic interests ([05:40]).

• National Security Concerns:

  • Kaminsky discusses surging American attention toward climate protestors and their disruptive tactics, raising questions about outside influence ([07:47]).

• Bannon’s Framing:

  • Bannon ties the allegations to broader concerns about U.S.-China geopolitical rivalry:

    "The Chinese Communist Party has a total master plan geopolitically. Part of it is to hurt the United States when it comes to Trump’s full-spectrum energy dominance."
    [08:21]

• Legal Context & Likelihood of Action:

  • Kaminsky notes enforcement of FARA is rare and the DOJ (under AG Pam Bondi) only pursues cases deemed very serious (treason/espionage). It remains unclear if the DOJ will act on the AGs’ request ([09:28]).

• Memorable Quote:

  • "For decades from about 1988 to 2016 there were, I believe, under or around ten FARA prosecutions as a whole which really shows how much of an obscure law it’s been viewed as."
    — Kaminsky [09:49]

• Where to find Kaminsky’s work:

  • "You can read all my and my colleagues' reporting at thefp.com and follow me on X @GKaminskyBrother."
    [10:46]

2. The Conservative Movement’s Intellectual Roots: Buckley, McCarthy, Coalitions, and Excommunications

Guest: Sam Tanenhaus ([11:00] onward)

a. Buckley, McCarthy, and the Early Conservative Network

• Bill Buckley's Anti-Communism:

  • Bannon:

    "Buckley was a devout Catholic and a hardcore anti-communist, was he not, just like Joe McCarthy?"
    [11:54]

  • Tanenhaus describes the admiration and ideological kinship between McCarthy and Buckley, tracing it to their Yale days.

    "He was and he liked McCarthy... McCarthy’s getting documentation from the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover... Buckley and Bozell realized that McCarthy himself was becoming the object of attack. They said, 'Why is that happening? It’s because liberals control the media.'"
    [12:03–13:32]

• Founding National Review:

  • Buckley decided to create a conservative intellectual platform to counter liberal dominance.

    "That’s how [National Review] came to be... the greatest conservative publication of its time."
    [13:45]

b. Communication, Populism, and Media Narratives

• Populist Rhetoric:
  • Bannon observes that McCarthy’s power lay not in rhetorical skill but in voicing the working/middle class’s concerns, anticipating Trump’s popular appeal:

    "His superpower was he said things the working class and middle class audience themselves were thinking but wouldn’t say—a forerunner of Donald Trump."
    [15:01]

  • Tanenhaus illustrates Buckley’s insight:

    "Buckley actually has a lot more in common with [working/middle class Catholics] than people realize, and so does Joe McCarthy."
    [16:47]

c. Controlling the Movement’s Boundaries: Excluding Allies

• Buckley’s Hard Choices – The John Birch Society, Ayn Rand, and Coalition Management

  • Buckley was initially supportive of the John Birch Society (JBS) and founder Robert Welch but became concerned as Welch’s conspiratorial views (e.g., accusing Eisenhower of being a communist) threatened the credibility of the movement.

    "Welch got involved in a conspiracy that wasn’t true... Buckley at first said so what if that’s what he thinks... but then the media is all over it."
    — Tanenhaus [28:57–40:23]

  • Buckley also distanced the movement from Ayn Rand over her atheism, instructing National Review’s Whittaker Chambers to critique her.

  • Tanenhaus explains how Buckley, Russell Kirk, and Barry Goldwater met privately to orchestrate Welch’s removal from legitimacy:

    "Buckley wrote the great attack on [Welch] in National Review, Russell Kirk wrote articles ... Goldwater told journalists we need to get rid of this guy... Buckley realized, 'we’re in it alone, we’re going to have to make the case.'"
    [41:30–44:20]

  • Buckley’s move was costly—dozens of angry letters, some drop in National Review subscriptions—yet is now seen as essential to modern conservatism’s respectability.

  • Bannon draws the parallel to today’s conservative world:

    "This is analogous to the Trump movement... Buckley made a decision that he needed to have the platform that determined who was in or who was out."
    [27:54]

d. Lessons on Media, Narratives, and Movement Building

• Narrative Control:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "It wasn’t that [McCarthy] didn’t have the facts... but he had let other people craft the narrative... and that's eventually what destroyed him... [Buckley and co.] were determined not to allow that to happen to the conservative movement."
    [24:43]

• Parallel to the Present:

  • Both Bannon and Tanenhaus highlight the ongoing struggle for narrative control, the importance of media independence, and the risk of definition by adversaries.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On CCP influence and energy:

  • Bannon:

    "Chinese Communist Party has a one-trillion-dollar trade surplus this year. The Chinese Communist Party has a total master plan geopolitically, part of it is to hurt the United States when it comes to Trump’s full spectrum energy dominance."
    [08:21]

• On populist conservatism:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "Burnham says [about regular people], 'The communism thing doesn’t seem that hard to us, why don’t we just get rid of them?' ... That, by the way, is the origin of Buckley’s probably most famous comment: 'I’d rather be governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone book than by the faculty of Harvard University.'"
    [15:42–16:14]

• On coalition building and boundaries:

  • Tanenhaus:

    "Everybody knows you have all kinds of people in your ground troops... but the leadership has to pass a certain test, and Welch wasn’t doing it, so Buckley pushed him out with regret."
    [47:05]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:51] Gabe Kaminsky on DOJ letter, climate groups, and CCP links
• [06:47] History of Energy Foundation China & scrutiny over time
• [09:28] DOJ’s limited FARA enforcement; challenges for state AGs
• [12:03] Sam Tanenhaus joins for deep dive on Buckley and movement history
• [13:32] Founding National Review as counter to mainstream/liberal media
• [15:42] Populist roots, Buckley’s working-class resonance
• [24:43] Narrative control, media, lessons from McCarthy’s downfall
• [27:54] Managing the conservative coalition—Birchers, Ayn Rand
• [41:30] Buckley/Kirk/Goldwater’s strategy to distance Robert Welch
• [47:05] Letters, backlash, and the importance of leadership credibility

Episode Tone & Style

• Tone: Combative, reflective, historical
• Language: Blunt and irreverent (Bannon); measured, scholarly, story-rich (Tanenhaus); investigative and precise (Kaminsky)
• Style: Lively, anecdotal, historically informed, linking past conservative battles to present-day struggles

Further Resources and Book Mentions

• Sam Tanenhaus’s book: Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America — discussed as essential for understanding the modern conservative movement ([47:05])
• Whitaker Chambers biography by Tanenhaus, noted as out of print but influential ([48:20])

Summary Takeaways

• The episode connects current debates over CCP influence and energy policy directly to the intellectual and organizational struggles of conservatism’s formative years.
• Through both segments, key themes of outsider status, the importance (and difficulty) of narrative control, and the need to maintain both broad coalitions and movement credibility are emphasized.
• The parallels between MAGA/Trump’s populism and Buckley/McCarthy’s mid-century anti-communist coalition are front and center.

For more reporting by Gabe Kaminsky: thefp.com
Sam Tanenhaus’s website: samtanenhaus.com
Book discussed: Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America (Random House)