THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON, NOVEMBER 27TH, 2025 (EP.#4957)

Summary

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Real America’s Voice – War Room with Stephen K. Bannon

Episode: November 27, 2025 (Ep. 4957)
Host: Steve Bannon
Featured Guest: Dr. Larry Schweikart (Co-author, A Patriot’s History of the United States)
Theme: Thanksgiving, American History, and the Roots of Exceptionalism

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Episode Overview

This Thanksgiving special of “War Room” with Steve Bannon centers on the origins and enduring meaning of Thanksgiving in America, diving into the founding values of the nation. Steve Bannon is joined by historian Dr. Larry Schweikart for a lively, story-rich discussion, emphasizing the Pilgrims, Jamestown, Plymouth, Native American encounters, and the foundational pillars that shaped American exceptionalism. The conversation tackles the myths, realities, and debates over America’s beginnings, reflecting the role of providence, self-governance, and religious liberty, while contextualizing America’s ongoing narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Dr. Larry Schweikart’s “A Patriot’s History of the United States”

• Inspiration for the Book:
  • Schweikart and Mike Allen were frustrated as history teachers by liberal trends in textbooks, leading them to write their own narrative-centered, conservative-leaning history book.
    • “By the early 1990s, Mike and I couldn’t find anything to teach from. … So we said, why don’t we write our own?” (Schweikart, 07:30)
• Book’s Success and Influence:
  • The book’s popularity soared after Glenn Beck spotlighted it, seeing huge sales and a 45th printing.
  • Schweikart offers a free update to anyone who emails him, covering history through Biden’s term and into Trump’s second.

B. Interconnectedness of American History (“American Biography” project)

• Schweikart’s upcoming book will trace the chain of American leaders from John Smith to Donald Trump, emphasizing that the story of the U.S. is deeply biographical, with influential figures’ lives overlapping and shaping one another.
  • “We really are all tied together by less than six degrees of separation, quite honestly.” (Schweikart, 13:08)

C. Thanksgiving: Origins and Legacy

• Debate Over the "First" Thanksgiving:
  • Bannon recalls family debates over whether Thanksgiving began in Virginia or Massachusetts.
  • Schweikart places the roots of American exceptionalism in Plymouth, not Jamestown.
    • “Massachusetts, especially Plymouth, was the site of American exceptionalism and not Jamestown. … It was only Plymouth that had those first two elements.” (Schweikart, 24:40)

The “Four Pillars” of American Exceptionalism:

1. Christian, Mostly Protestant Religious Tradition
   • Not theological dogma, but congregational, bottom-up church governance in opposition to monarchy-driven or top-down control.
2. Common Law
   • Law is seen as coming from God and residing in the people’s hearts, as opposed to rulers.
3. Private Property with Written Titles and Deeds
   • Crucial for economic growth; unique compared to much of the world.
     • “If you want to grow your business … you’re going to have to have written titles and deeds. … Still, there are parts of the world struggling with this.” (Schweikart, 58:13)
4. Free Market Economy
   • Early seeds of capitalism, starting as communal and moving rapidly toward individually owned enterprise.

Why American Thanksgiving Is Unique:

• Bannon: “Is any other nation on earth really segregated out a time of year or a day to actually give thanks to God, to give thanks to divine providence for the blessings of the nation?” (Bannon, 14:03)
• Schweikart explains that Plymouth’s Thanksgiving was the first government-proclaimed day to thank God—not just to share bounty with Native Americans.

D. The Pilgrims: Reality vs. Legend

Jamestown vs. Plymouth

• Jamestown:
  • Formed by entrepreneurs seeking profit, facing starvation and severe hardship.
  • Noted for near-collapse, only saved by an incredibly timely arrival of a relief ship:
    • “If they’d left a half an hour earlier, they would have missed them.” (Schweikart, 39:53)
• Plymouth:
  • Despite adversity, the Pilgrims were determined to build a ‘city on a hill,’ embodying purpose beyond survival.
• Survival:
  • “Their mission was to set up a city on a hill, a godly colony ... hardship was just a part of that. They weren’t going to leave no matter what.” (Schweikart, 39:53)

Communal to Private Economy

• Both colonies initially implemented communal (“socialist”) systems; both quickly pivoted to private property and individual responsibility after near-failure.
  • “John Smith in Virginia said, ‘That’s it. He who won’t work, won’t eat.’” (Schweikart, 42:17)
  • “In Plymouth, Governor Carver … gave out seed to everybody, gave out land to everybody, and says, you’re on your own.” (Schweikart, 42:17)

The First Thanksgiving – The Real Story

• Squanto’s Role:
  • Squanto, who spoke English due to being kidnapped, sold, brought to Europe, and ultimately returning, was pivotal in Pilgrims’ success.
  • “The first Indian goes, ‘Hello, Englishman.’ That would be like … arriving on some other planet ...” (Schweikart, 44:33)
• Indian Politics:
  • Native tribes were complex: frequently at war, forming alliances for their own benefit, which colored their interaction with the settlers.
• The Feasting & Giving Thanks:
  • It was a religious act: “This is the first official government proclaimed Thanksgiving to God, and not like what the public school teachers teach. They weren’t thanking the Indians, they were thanking God.” (Schweikart, 47:35)
  • Over 80 Native Americans attended the feast.

E. Myths and Hauntings: Roanoke and the “Lost Colony”

• Bannon and Schweikart discuss the earlier Roanoke settlement—first English child Virginia Dare, mysterious disappearance, and the word “Croatoan” still debated by historians.

F. Private Property: “Written Titles and Deeds”

• Schweikart argues written deeds were critical to the American economic model and differentiates America from nations where property law is unwritten or confused.
  • “As you move further west … everything had finally been surveyed by the time they got out west.” (Schweikart, 61:48)
• Land Ordinance of 1785 described as “the most important law in American history, even before the Constitution,” for opening up ownership and settlement.

G. Foundational Documents: The Mayflower Compact

• Bannon and Schweikart agree its late drafting was due to the dangers of democracy at sea. Schweikart calls it a foundational, profound document, promising to discuss more in the next hour.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Schweikart on Pilgrims’ Motivation:

  • "They were being actively persecuted. … Their physical safety was in question. And then when they left Leyden, they said, we’ve got to go really far away here. Let’s get to America.” (28:06)

• On Squanto’s Return:

  • “He was sold to a group of priests who taught him English and the Bible … and he became fluent in it. … He goes all the way around the world … and comes back to America.” (44:55)

• Bannon on Gratitude and Patriotism:

  • “We stand on the shoulders of giants, right? Because I wouldn’t last too long in that environment, Larry.” (31:31)

• Schweikart on American Exceptionalism and Modern Comparisons:

  • “They don’t have the pillars of American exceptionalism … this twofold bottom up resistance against top down government. … That’s why Canada and Australia locked down so hard [in Covid].” (30:00)

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Key Timestamps for Essential Segments

• 07:30 — Schweikart explains origins of A Patriot’s History and the mission to counter left-leaning textbooks.
• 13:08 — Introduction of the “American Biography” project; linking American figures across the centuries.
• 24:40 — The case for Plymouth’s exceptional status—discussion of the Four Pillars.
• 31:31 — Bannon on the hardship and heroism of early settlers.
• 39:53 — The providential rescue of Jamestown.
• 42:17 — The Pilgrims’ economic shift from communal to private property.
• 44:55 — The extraordinary tale of Squanto.
• 47:35 — Thanksgiving as thanks to God, not Native Americans.
• 58:13 — The practical importance of written property deeds.
• 62:59 — Founding, structure, and significance of the Mayflower Compact.

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Flow & Tone

• Warm, conversational, and occasionally humorous:
  • The hosts and guest joke about “rat puree” and “Jimmy Durante-shaped rocks.”
• Deeply reverential:
  • Repeated references to providence, gratitude, the “shoulders of giants,” and the ongoing arc of American history.

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Summary for Listeners

This episode provides a thorough, nuanced, and often passionate retelling of Thanksgiving’s American roots through the eyes of historians who believe in the uniqueness of the U.S. experiment. Instead of the sanitized, schoolbook version, listeners get the gritty realities, key characters, providential coincidences, and defining features (private property, self-rule, religious liberty) that forged an enduring tradition of gratitude and national purpose.

Whether you tuned in for the detailed history or just to feel the spirit of Thanksgiving, this episode connects the past with present values, making a case not just for remembering the myth—but for understanding the extraordinary people, principles, and faith that built the nation.

Transcript

[Larry Sweichart]

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[Larry Sweichart]

We've come Come to the time in the season when family and friends gather near to offer a prayer of thanksgiving.

[Odette (Singer)]

For blessings we've known through the years.

[Larry Sweichart]

To join hands and thank the Creator.

[Odette (Singer)]

Now when Thanksgiving is due.

[Larry Sweichart]

And this year when I count my blessings I'm thanking the Lord he made you this year when I count my blessings I'm thanking the Lord he made you I'm grateful for the laughter of children the sun and the wind and the rain.

[Odette (Singer)]

The color of blue in your sweet.

[Larry Sweichart]

Eyes the sight of a highball and train the moon rise over a prairie.

[Odette (Singer)]

And oh love that you've made new and this year when I count my.

[Larry Sweichart]

Blessing Thanking the Lord he made you.

[Odette (Singer)]

This year when I count my blessings.

[Larry Sweichart]

I'm thanking the Lord he made you. And when the time comes to be.

[Rodney Williams]

Going.

[Larry Sweichart]

It won't be in sorrow and tears I'll kiss you goodbye and I'll go on the way Grateful for all.

[Odette (Singer)]

Of the years I thank for all.

[Larry Sweichart]

That you gave me for teaching me what love can do and Thanksgiving Day.

[Odette (Singer)]

For the rest of my life I'm.

[Larry Sweichart]

Thanking the Lord he made you Thanksgiving.

[Odette (Singer)]

Day for the rest of my life.

[Larry Sweichart]

I'm thanking the Lord he made you.

[Steve Bannon]

It is Thursday, Thanksgiving Day, the 27th of November in the year of Lord 2025. Johnny Cash with the Thanksgiving song we play every year about this time. Very special. Honored to have back Dr. Larry Sweichart, the co author of one of the most profound books, I think, about history in the history of the country, the Patriots History of the United States. Larry or Doc, thank you so much for joining us again. As we do this one more time, it's always fantastic. Talk to me about not just Thanksgiving Day, but the whole, you know, Patriots history. You guys had a totally different take that's resonated down through the Years, it was a number one bestseller. If Rush Limbaugh fell in love with the book, it became a blockbuster. People, I think, would think, hang, hang on. A Conservative History of the United States. You guys had the idea because you were teachers of history, right? And you couldn't find a textbook that actually told the true story of the United States, Sir.

[Larry Sweichart]

That's exactly right. Mike Allen and I met at a Western history conference and we were lamenting how bad the traditional textbooks that were out there were. You know, it's interesting that they started off, many of these, like the National Experience or American Pageant, weren't terrible. But over time, especially as they took on more co authors and younger writers, they got to be extremely liberal. So by the early 1990s, Mike and I couldn't find find anything to teach from. And as an instructor, it's a pain to have to argue against the textbook all the time. So we said, why don't we write our own? So around 1999, we started writing this book. And by the way, it was not a direct response to Howard Zinn's People's History. This wasn't even really the original title of the manuscript we gave him. And we didn't think we'd get a publisher. We thought we'd end up with a book that we had to bind and sell out of the back of a van along with, you know, Plastic Straws in California. California and various other sort of contraband items. Buddy. Plastic Straws Patriots, History of the United States. But we did get a publisher and it worked out very well. And as you mentioned, we had a number of years where we had just good, good sales. Everything was fine. And then I went on Glenn beck's show in 2010, and he had a massive audience at that time about the equivalent of what Tucker had at Fox when he left Fox. And overnight, the book just exploded to the point we were shipping over 19,000 copies a single day. It is now in its 45th printing. And for your audience, I will have a free update from the last edition, which ended in 2018. I will give people a free update if they just email me at Larry at Wild World of History. That's [e-mail] we have two new chapters that go from 2020, 2018 to 2025 through Trump's first full term, through Biden's term, through Covid, and part part of the way through Trump's term. So if you want that free update, it's a PDF, I'll email it to you if you email [e-mail] we're gonna.

[Steve Bannon]

Get into all of this today. You know, you're one of my favorite people to have on. Not just great chemistry and give and take, but your love of history just comes through. And it comes through on the book. So if anybody's ever, ever wanted to, particularly their grandchildren, children, or yourself, if you don't think you know the whole story, what Sweikart and Alan do is. And it's a narrative. It's kind of academic to a degree, like parts of it, like a textbook, but it's like a narrative you read. It's huge novel, the arc of the history of the United States. And it's very profound. I want to thank everybody for we do this. We do our specials on Christmas Day, we do our specials on Thanksgiving Day. Want to thank everybody, part of the Warren posse, particularly today. We know you're probably traveling around trying to get to Thanksgiving dinner this afternoon. And I love this book so much. I had MO send me a bunch of copies. I started with the one at the prison library, but this is, you know, people comment about. I taught civics at Danbury Federal Prison, and one of the key textbooks I used was the Patriots History of the United States. And it was amazing. So many of the inmates came up to me after and said, what's this history book? And so I know it was standing room only at the prison library after the fact. I bought a bunch of copies and gave it to the prison library so they had more to circulate. Larry, let's talk about things, and we'll go back to the founding of the country and all that, but we've had Ken Burns, the American Revolution. That's been on. I don't know if you've been watching it, but let's go back to Thanksgiving because you got. Did you watch Burns American Revolution?

[Larry Sweichart]

No, I did not. Sorry. I've had not only the book you see in the background, America in the 21st century, which is coming out in February, but the publisher and I decided we needed a book for America's 250th anniversary, specifically. Although I wasn't going to write any more books, I go, okay, I'll do one more. And it's called American Biography. I know this is going to be right up your alley, Steve, because I follow the history of America, starting with John Smith, all the way up to Trump, by linking people together, one to another to another, all the way through the history. It's. It's quite an amazing story. You know that Bradford William Bradford, his ship was sent off on a prayer service by Increase Mather, who was Cotton Mather's father. And Bradford, of course, liked Cotton Mather a lot. And you just get into these connections whereby. Did you know that Davy Crockett had on him one book at the Alamo. He brought with him one book, and it was Benjamin Franklin's autobiography. I mean, you find these links through American history, we really are all tied together by less than six degrees of separation, quite honestly.

[Steve Bannon]

So you're saying it's kind of an unbroken chain of. You can look at American history. I think it was Carlisle that said history is just biography.

[Larry Sweichart]

Right.

[Steve Bannon]

But you're actually going to prove it by doing American biography and linking back to the unbroken chain of American patriotism all the way back to the beginning due to telling people stories.

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah, exactly right. I mean, we forget that so many of these people were contemporaries, but they weren't the same age. You know, Washington overlapped Patrick Henry, who overlapped Thomas Jefferson, who overlapped James Madison. And you get Daniel Boone in there, you get Davy Crockett. Crockett Boone and Mike Fink apparently never met, even though Disney had Mike Fink and Davy Crockett doing a keelboat race. Apparently they never met, but they were all in that same milieu, all at that same time, and they all knew of each other, which is just really remarkable. What.

[Steve Bannon]

Let's go back. I want to talk about Thanksgiving a little bit to kick the show off. Did you. And by the way, we're the. The song. Our out song is three minutes long. Or does this take me down to it? Or want to cut it? Three minutes, you let me know. Okay, fine. You're gonna give me the sign. Maybe. Maybe I wait for Larry. Maybe I wait for Larry to. We come back. Is it three minutes out? Okay, fine. Larry, our doctor and I'm going to bring you back. You'll be with us for all two hours. When you come back, here's the question. Is any other nation on earth really segregated out a time of year or a day to actually give thanks to God, to give thanks to divine providence for the blessings of the nation? So we're going to let. We get a very special song. Every year at Thanksgiving, we do this Odette, and we're ready to go. Let's go ahead and let the. Let's go ahead and let the song. We're going to play the entire song to kick things off.

[Odette (Singer)]

He hath lose the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. His truth is marching on. I have seen him in the watchfires of a hundred circling camps they have builded him an altar in the evening dews and damp I have read his righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps his truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. His truth is marching on. I have read a fiery gospel written burnished rows of steel. As ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal. Let the hero born of woman crush the serpent with his heel. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. His truth is marching on. He has sounded forth a trumpet that shall never call retreat. He is sifting out the hearts of men before his judgment seat O be swift, my soul to answer O be jubilant, my feet. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. In the beauty of the release Christ was born across the sea With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me as he died to make men holy Let us die to make men free. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory, hallelujah. His truth is marching on. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord he is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored. He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift sword. His truth is marching on.

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We've come to the time in the season when family and friends gather near to offer a prayer of thanksgiving for blessings we've known through the years to join hands and thank the Creator.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, welcome back. On a Thanksgiving morning, we do our, we always do our war rooms and Thanksgiving and Christmas and all the holidays. Make sure that we're there for you all the time. Larry Swikert Dr. Swikert Author Co author of the Patriots History of the United States When I was a kid growing up, Doc, there used to be arguments around the table. We were from the Commonwealth of Virginia, you know, family's from Norfolk, but we had gone up to Richmond and we're there. But we used to get together with the Norfolk crowd and there'd be big debates over people. At the time, I think Jack Kennedy in 19, I think it was Kennedy in 61 or 62, put out a proclamation that both Thanksgiving were both Massachusetts and Virginia. But it was a huge debate at that time, as things often were about American history. You wouldn't have that debate today. Talk to me about that. I think you come down, if I remember reading the book correctly, you believe Berkeley and what happened in the Berkeley plantation, all that happened afterwards. You come down on the side of this, that it was Massachusetts, sir.

[Larry Sweichart]

Massachusetts especially Plymouth was the site of American exceptionalism and not Jamestown. And the reason for that is what we call in the book the four pillars of American exceptionalism. The first one being a Christian, mostly Protestant religious tradition. And the reason that's important is not for matters of theology and, but because the Puritans believed in bottom up congregational government of the church and Every other church government at that time was top down. Second pillar was common law, that God puts the law in the hearts of the people, not the ruler, and that the people elect or select rulers who will carry out God's law. The third was private property with written titles and deeds which was at Jamestown. And the last was a free market economy. They wouldn't have called it capitalism then, but they did have early elements of a free market economy. But it was only Plymouth that had those first two elements. And as a result American exceptionalism. Are you listening to me? 1619 Project American exceptionalism has nothing to do with slavery or slaves. There were no slaves in Plymouth.

[Steve Bannon]

It's interesting you say this, I want to drill down because on in Jamestown was freebooters, right? It was really entrepreneurs. They were not there to farm, they were there to find gold. I mean it was a corporate entity. There was a corporate entity. They were going to have allocation of profits and they were much more capitalistic in looking at it because there's really an entrepreneur. The Virginia Company was an entrepreneurial activity, sir.

[Larry Sweichart]

Supposedly so was Plymouth. But of course we know what happened there was that the Pilgrims could not go to the King and say, listen whore of Babylon, we want a place where we can worship without your oversight. And they were being persecuted severely in England at that time by the Church of England. So they couldn't go to him and use a religious argument. So they went to him, they said, hey, we think we can make you some money if you just give us some land up there in the top of the Virginia grant. And as you know, they were originally supposed to be part of the London Company, Virginia Company grant at the top of Virginia. And they were off course and ended up in Massachusetts.

[Steve Bannon]

The Puritans had actually left, I guess the group called the Pilgrims had gone to because they didn't fit in in England. Right. They just felt that the English society was getting too decadent. In fact there was a. I think it was. Kevin Phillips wrote the Cousins War, which was one of the most profound books I've ever read about the founding of America. Talked about the Puritans versus the Royalists and the English Civil War and the different parts of the country came from. It didn't extrapolate that down to really how the revolution in our country was kind of two parts, the New England part and the Southern part. And they took it all the way to the Civil War, right with the abolitionists and really the rebels. It was quite interesting, the distinction. But when they left England they didn't come to America first. Right. They made a stop in which they, I guess they, they pissed off the locals there and had to keep going. Tell us that story.

[Larry Sweichart]

Well, they went to, to Leyden in Holland. And it's something of a myth that when they came to America, they didn't know how to farm. Of course they knew how to farm, but they'd spent some time in Holland doing other things, tanning and, you know, leather and all these other kinds of, of what we call mechanical skills at that time. And they had wanted an area which wasn't, as you said, decadent and sort of a Las Vegas. And that's what they found in Holland. And that greatly disturbed them. But when they left England, it's important to understand that it wasn't just, these guys are a little too sinful for us. They were being actively persecuted. Members of the separatist group and the Pilgrim and the Puritans as a whole were being thrown into jail because they were not kowtowing to the line given by the Anglican Church. So their physical safety was in question. And then when they left Leyden, they said, we've got to go really far away here. Let's get to America.

[Steve Bannon]

But one of the things for the audience is that they wouldn't kowtow to the fact that the King was the head of the Church of England. Right. Remember, Henry VIII had removed the Catholic Church and made it more nationalistic. They wanted it to be English, not Roman. But they did put the king, they put a secular head in charge. That was one of the big complaints. Besides all the ornamentation and how they felt the Church of England or the Anglican Church was too much like the Catholic Church, except it reported to a different person. But the thing that really stuck in their crawl was that the King was the head of the, was the head of the Church of England.

[Larry Sweichart]

Yes, absolutely. This comes to that first pillar, which is that in America you have a Christian, mostly Protestant tradition that emphasizes congregations and bottom up church government, which was contrary to the Roman Catholic Church, to the Greek Orthodox Church, and of course, as you just mentioned, to the Anglican Church. And Henry viii, I used to tell my students, created the Anglican Church because he wanted a hottie. He wanted Anne Boleyn. And the Pope says, no, I'm not going to give you a divorce. He said, well, fine, I'll start my own church and I'll be the head of my own church. So. So when you combine the pilgrim's bottom up religious experience with their bottom up political government experience, you have such an absolutely powerful force that it makes America different from every other nation in the world. And just a few years ago, you might remember how many Americans, I'm sure they asked you this too. What's going on with Canada and Australia? Why are they locking down so hard? Aren't they democracies? And I would always say, yeah, they're democracies, but they don't have the pillars of American exceptionalism that begin with this twofold bottom up resistance against top down government. So they were very different in their Covid experiences than we were. Going all the way back to the Pilgrims.

[Steve Bannon]

Going back to the Pilgrims on the Mayflower. Tell what, what stuns me. And having gone up there and been to Plymouth Rock and to Plymouth and going and actually tracing not just how they came across, how they landed, how did they survive? This is what I don't get because you have every day you have to get your heat, your food. It just I tell people we stand on the shoulders of giants, right? Because I wouldn't last too long in that environment. Larry how did they actually survive when they had nothing and they were on the tiny, tiny sliver of a vast wilderness?

[Larry Sweichart]

Well, first of all, they didn't all leave the boat the minute they got here. They stayed on board the Mayflower for some time and they sent out scouting parties, obviously. Are we in the right place? Is there a place here where we can settle? Is there a place where we can live? Once the whole body of people remember more than half of these travelers who came to America. We all call them the Pilgrims, but more than half of them were not separatists. They were just others who wanted to come over. And they were known by the term strangers. And they fished and they hunted and they gathered and they did whatever they could to stay alive for those weeks.

[Steve Bannon]

She's quite amazing. Odette will take us out. One of my favorite songs. What a Beautiful Voice from 1959, the Battle Hymn of the Republic. And throughout the day we'll actually in the second hour we'll play the entire all the standards for. It's quite amazing. Larry Sweichart is our, is our guest as is Basically we set a tradition last couple years of every Thanksgiving. The reason is I have not met any one individual that has just not a storehouse of knowledge and information in these amazing stories, but has a great love for this country. And in that love I think you can connect a lot of dots. Larry Sweikart the book is Patriot's history of the US now I think United States what now? And its 45th printing. He's got an incredible book coming out, American biography of the 250s in America in the 21st century. We'll talk all about those. Larry Soika Odette will take us out with Battle Hymn of the Republic.

[Odette (Singer)]

His Truth is Marching on I have read a fiery gospel written burnished rows of steel. As you deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal. Let the hero born of woman Crush the serpent with his heel. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory, hallelujah. Glory, glory hallelujah.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same so if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Rodney Williams]

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[Steve Bannon]

Plus 24.

[Rodney Williams]

7 customer support, his venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger.

[Larry Sweichart]

For the ones who get it done.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, welcome back. Thanksgiving morning. Larry Swiker is with us. You know, they were off course, Larry. They thought they were hitting Virginia, they hit Massachusetts. And I think they figured it out fairly quickly. I can tell you as a kid from Virginia that went and spent four years at sea, you know, home ported out of San Diego, but spent it in Asia, the tropics, you know, ended up in the Persian Gulf, North Arabian Sea when I came back and went to the Pentagon, back to kind of Virginia for a couple of years and then went to Harvard up in Massachusetts. There's a big difference in the climate there's a very big difference in the climate of Virginia than it is up in Massachusetts. So once again, I realize some stay on the ship, but how did they. The grueling nature. I mean, how many people did they lose? Because Jamestown, the entrepreneurs, the people looking for gold, essentially starved to death and really packed it up and were leaving when they caught an inbound ship that was coming with not just reinforcements, but resupplies. Although they had a grueling time in Massachusetts, they never really said. They never came close to saying, we're calling it quits, did they?

[Larry Sweichart]

No. And the story you just mentioned is absolutely incredible. I don't know if people understand this, but the Jamestown settlers, you know, it got so bad that they'd been eating rats and dung and shoelaces. And, you know, my wife and I love these cooking shows where you have a market basket of goods and they'll pull out, oh, we have a rat, we have dung, we have shoelaces, and of course, the. The great cook. So I know what I'm going to do with that. I'm going to make a rat puree over some nice rocks. And anyway, that ship with the settlers had they completely pulled out. They said, enough is enough. We've lost over half of our people two years in a row. We're getting out of here. And as they get to the mouth of the James river now, people think about the incredible providential nature of this. They get to the mouth of the James river and they meet another ship inbound a half an hour in either direction. And they wouldn't. They wouldn't have encountered that ship if they'd left a half an hour earlier, they would have missed them. So you get the pilgrims up at Massachusetts, they did lose a lot, but not at the same levels those in Jamestown did. But remember, their mission was to set up a city on a hill, a godly colony, and, you know, hardship was just a part of that. And they. They weren't going to leave no matter what. So the, the difference between the two colonies was rather significant.

[Steve Bannon]

What talk to me about. Because there's all. There's a separation of the legend and what the reality was. Walk through as close to reality as we can get of the. Of the first Thanksgiving Day. How did it come about? Because part of this is the sophistication of the Indian tribes because the Indians had alliances with each other. They were in confederacies with each other. They were against each other. There was a. There had been a huge epidemic, but there was also a constant. And this was quite a big war, I think, going on in New England at the time. Between the tribes themselves, where the. The whites were kind of these, you know, these kind of very odd folks that just kind of arrived out of nowhere.

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. So let's back up so that everybody understands that both Jamestown and the Plymouth colonists, the Puritans, they all arrived with a socialist model in mind. They were going to run the colonies as a socialist model. They wouldn't have used that word. They would use something like communal. But they had communal grain, they had communal lands, the commons. Everybody was to go out and work the land. You could only. You're only supposed to take from the grain barrel what you needed and leave the rest. And, of course, people weren't working nearly enough to replace the grain barrel. And after a couple of seasons, John Smith in Virginia said, that's it. He who won't work, won't eat. And he doled out private land holdings. And all of a sudden, they didn't. They didn't flourish the way that the Plymouth colony did, but they did survive. But in Plymouth, Governor Carver, after only one season, said, this isn't working. And he gave out seed to everybody, gave out land to everybody, and says, you're on your own. And as William Bradford noted in his novel, he said, you know, the socialist model. Again, he wouldn't have used that word, the socialist model. We thought we were wiser than God in adopting that model. And so the first change that occurred was in how they approached their basic economy. Second change that occurred, of course, is that they met the one Indian in all of North America who spoke English. Squanto, they called him. And you can imagine what a shock it was. They're on their hill, they're cutting wood. You know, they're. They're hunting or whatnot, and two Indians come up over the ridge and the Indian walks and they're getting their guns. They're not sure what to do. And the first Indian goes, hello, Englishman. That would be like, I don't know, arriving on some other planet and you encounter the reptile people and you immediately know who they are. Right? So, yes, the Indians saw the arrival of whites, particularly.

[Steve Bannon]

But hang on, but hang on, hang on, hang on. Don't bury the lead here. Squanto just didn't, you know, it wasn't divine providence that he knew English. Tell the story of that. It also tells you the amazing heroism of the people in Plymouth. Go ahead. How and why did Squanto actually not just know English? But he spoke it pretty well, didn't he?

[Larry Sweichart]

Squanto was taken as a slave by Some explorers, they got him back to Spain, where he was apparently. All this is a little questionable because the records are somewhat spotty, but he apparently was sold to a group of priests who taught him English and taught him the Bible, of course, and he became fluent in it. Well, somehow he ends up over in England, where he's kind of a showpiece, but also kind of a servant around some of the aristocratic halls and so forth. And it's then that he's taken back to America on another voyage because he knows English and knows many of the Indian languages. Now, as you pointed out, there were civil wars going on between the Indian tribes, the Narragansett, the Pequots, the Penobscots. Many of the tribes up in these areas were constantly fighting each other. I used to ask my students, who do you think killed the last of the Mohicans? The white man? No, it was the Hurons. But anyway, so he. He goes all the way around the world, I mean, at least the. The Atlantic world, and comes back to America, which is when he meets the current residents, the current occupants, the Pilgrims, and that's when all this takes place. And so, combining the shift from a socialist economy to individual property ownership and Squanto told the Pilgrims about a number of better ways they could raise corn, raise Indian corn. Another, you know, all sorts of helpful hints as to how to survive here in North America. Again, many of them were farmers. It's a nonsense that they didn't know how to farm, but they didn't know the North American landscape at all. So by the time they have an early form of capitalism, combined with the information that Squanto gave them, they had more than enough. They had what Bradford called abundance, and Carver called for a Thanksgiving Day to God. There have been many Thanksgivings in Virginia and elsewhere before then, but this is the first official government proclaimed Thanksgiving to God, and not like what the public school teachers teach. They weren't thanking the Indians, they were thanking God. And they invited over 80 Indians to share in their abundant feast.

[Steve Bannon]

Just to make sure people know Squanto is here, because the Mayflower in Jamestown weren't the first people actually to make it to North America. There had been other traders, freebooters, et cetera, that had actually made it to the shores. And Squanto had been picked up or enslaved by some of these. I don't want to call them raiders, but people. They were not coming for permanent settlement. They were kind of coming for as to do what they could ever do, extracted what they could extract and move on. Correct?

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah. And, of course, we did have a settlement off of the Carolinas, Roanoke, and that one disappeared. And to this day, historians are arguing about what the one word carved into wood, Croatoan, means or meant. But there's almost no historical evidence as to what happened to that colony. And, of course, both the French and the Spanish had planted colonies all over other parts of America and St. Augustine and then up in Montreal and Quebec and those. Those areas, small, small trading areas. But these were permanent settlements, especially in the case of the Pilgrims. They were going to make, as. As Winthrop said, a city on a hill. They weren't leaving. They were going to grow.

[Steve Bannon]

Real quickly. The haunting story of Roanoke Island. I mean, they came over pretty well situated, and in fact, they started running out of supplies. And the leaders, some of the heads, said, hey, let's go back to England and we'll. And we'll go get, you know, more material, some fresh people, et cetera. And when they got back, they didn't have the money. It took them, what, three or four years, Three years, I think, to actually come back, to return to Roanoke Island.

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah, as I recall, the story, the war with Spain and the Spanish Armada intervened in that. And obviously you weren't going to be sailing a lot of boats out while there's ships out in the English Channel shooting at each other. So if I recall correctly, they got delayed there, but like you say, they came back and no colony. And to this day, nobody knows really what happened to them. They were captured by Indians. If they'd been wiped out by a plague, there would have been bodies, but there were no bodies to be found.

[Steve Bannon]

Somehow they look like they marched inland and they left that haunting word put into the tree. And, of course, Virginia Dare, the first baby born of European settlers, was born in Roanoke island, has become very famous since then. Odette's going to take us out. Larry Sweichart's with us, the author. Larry, the books you have. America in the 21st century is coming out when?

[Larry Sweichart]

February 6th.

[Steve Bannon]

February. Said, that's fantastic. And that's basically an update. Is that an update of the first quarter of the century of the United States? Is that what that's about?

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah. I could find nobody else working on a real textbook of the first quarter century. And so I thought we needed to get that said, especially with the right political attitude.

[Steve Bannon]

And American. American biography is going to come out. That will come out in the summer around the 4th of July or the 250th Father's Day.

[Rodney Williams]

Wow.

[Steve Bannon]

You have a book coming out in February and another in June.

[Larry Sweichart]

And I've written a curriculum for good government for my history curriculum course, Wild World of History. So we'll have that coming out too.

[Steve Bannon]

Larry Swiker, you are man, that is a machine. People don't realize how hard it is to write these books. Incredible. Stick around. Larry Swiger is with us. It's Thanksgiving morning. We know that you are en route either cooking at the location where you're going to have your Thanksgiving today and give thanks to God or you're en route to be with family and friends. Whichever you are, you're in the war room. And we do this every year with Larry. Just incredible, incredible, incredible guy, incredible knowledge and now know he's got two books coming out in 2026, the 250th anniversary of the commencement of the birth of our country. What we're talking about today goes a little before the actual birth of the United States to the beginning and founding of America. Short commercial break Back in a moment.

[Odette (Singer)]

I have read a fiery gospel written burnished Rose of Steel, as ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal. Let the hero born of woman crush the serpent with his heel. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory hallelujah. Glory, glory hallelujah.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving, it's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you. Embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities. Like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Rodney Williams]

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.

[Larry Sweichart]

Think again.

[Rodney Williams]

More Americans listen to podcasts than ads.

[Larry Sweichart]

Supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

[Rodney Williams]

So whatever your customers are into, true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business?

[Larry Sweichart]

Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting.

[Rodney Williams]

Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-IHEART. One more time, call 844-844, IHEART and get podcasting.

[Larry Sweichart]

We've come to the time and the.

[Steve Bannon]

Season.

[Larry Sweichart]

When family and friends welcome back.

[Steve Bannon]

That's Johnny Cash. We're gonna play all of it at the top of the. At the top of the hour. Larry, one thing when you say about the four pillars of American exceptionalism, when you get to private property, you always throw in with written. Was it written deeds and contracts. What's the phrase that you always put it that you go private property with?

[Larry Sweichart]

Boom.

[Steve Bannon]

And what do you say?

[Larry Sweichart]

Written titles and deeds. And that's so important.

[Steve Bannon]

Why is Larry so why is Larry soy. Could you always make a point to add that? Why?

[Larry Sweichart]

There's parts of Africa to this day that do not deal in written titles and deeds. It is a key aspect of economic growth. Because if you want to use, you know, there's a guy named who did the book the Mystery of Capital. Okay, I'm forgetting his name right now. But anyway, he did this book, the Mystery of Capital, and he looked at what was missing in all of these nations that have some form of capitalism, but they're still extremely poor. And one of the leading elements is that many of them still do not have written titles and deeds. So if you want to grow your business and get a loan from a bank, you're going to have to put up collateral. And when you put up collateral, you're going to have to have written titles and deeds to whether it's your house or your car, whatever else it is, that's securing that loan. If countries don't have that. And Hernando De Soto, I think, is the guy who wrote Mystery Capital. He looked at several of these regions, and they don't have that. And it would take between 150 steps just to get something registered. I mean, I filled out a car registration yesterday in 10 minutes. So this is a very important, key element of America's past that we just glide by because it's so common to all of us these days. But there's parts of the world still struggling with this. Oh, and Steve, let me remind you one more thing.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, go ahead, sure.

[Larry Sweichart]

What I call the most important law in American history, even before the Constitution, was the land Ordinance of 1785. And what did that do? That set up a series of surveys in the old Northwest, starting in Ohio, going all the way out to Illinois and Wisconsin, that would sell off land at a buck and a quarter an acre and give you a written title and deed. And it broke up the countryside into sections and townships of square miles. And as soon as you would fill up one section, you'd move on to the next section. This is all for protection against Indians. Well, we're Americans, damn it. I'm American. I'm going to go settle where I want. And people began running out, settling in many of the unsurveyed areas. And so we had a clash between written titles and deeds and common law, which says, the people know what they're doing, the people know best. So Congress sided with the people and it drafted a law called preemption, what we call squatters rights, which says you can go out and if you can find land that nobody is on and you can stay there seven years and build a house, you can claim ownership to that land by law and get your own title. Indeed. And so when you fly across America from the east to the west, you'll notice in the east, especially when I was teaching Ohio, you fly over Ohio and you look out the plane window and you see what looks like a jigsaw puzzle of property. And that's because so many of these people had not waited for the survey. They said, well, my land rounds from the creek down there to that. That mountain, over to that big rock that looks like Jimmy Durante and then back here down here. And they would draw that up and take it into a assay office or a government office, and then it would be certified that that's their land. As you move further west, though, you look out your plane window, and what do you see? Nice squares. Because everything had finally been surveyed by the time they got out west.

[Steve Bannon]

What were their titles? Indeed, the Pilgrims were more communal than the Jamestown crowd. Right. Although both of them had a kind of a. More of a socialist system. It's only when they kind of went to Capitol. But did they have individual titles and deeds? When you go to Plymouth today and they've got the recreation of the village, were those individual titles and deeds that people had for their own private property?

[Larry Sweichart]

Yeah, I mean, you would get your title deed for a lot in the city. I think Bradford's lot is still there and it might take a while, but eventually you would get that piece of paper which was. It's crucial. It's amazing how one little piece of paper can be so important. Said every man who's ever been married.

[Steve Bannon]

Mayflower, before we go to break here at the top of the hour. Mayflower Compact. They knew even when they arrived there might be an issue. The Mayfair Compact, which you had, you had a long time to kind of figure out how this thing was going to be governed. Why did they wait to the last second? And then they came up with one of the most profound foundational documents in American history.

[Larry Sweichart]

I think the reason they waited, and I can't prove this, but I think the reason they waited was it's always dangerous to try to restructure a government at sea. You know, at sea, the captain is the government. He's the sole government. And so they didn't want any conflict between a newly elected governor from the body of people and the captain. You saw the same thing actually in Jamestown where Captain John Smith had been put in the brig on board ship for being a little too boisterous about what he was going to do. But his name was one of the seven administrators that was named there from England. So I think that. That they didn't want to rock the boat, so to speak. But we do need to get back to this because the Mayflower Compact is very important.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, we're gonna do that in the next hour. By the way, Nate Morris from the Commonwealth of Kentucky is going to actually come in beginning of the next hour. And I think we may have a couple of. A little bit of discussion about the land ordinance is 1785. If you watch. If you watch Ken Burns's the American Revolution, Larry, that when you get time, I know you're busy doing your books, but it makes a very big deal about the Ohio Valley and the Indian lands. I'm not saying it's the sole purpose of the revolution. There's a few woke moments. I actually liked it quite a bit. I like the Burns revolution quite a bit. Although there were being Ken Burns. You're going to get some woke up.

[Larry Sweichart]

Right. But, but he's, he's talking about the proclamation line of 1763, not the land order.

[Steve Bannon]

Yes. Well, no, no, no. But it projected out that eventually you would get to that the purpose was to get to the land, not just keeping us back but the, the, you know, Indian lands, native lands were the, were the which the land ordinance I think went over and, and gave you ordinance. Anyway, we'll talk about the next hour. Short commercial break Back On Thanksgiving Day, Dr. Larry Sweichart, author, co author of the Patriots History of these United States Back in a moment.

[Odette (Singer)]

My grace shall deal. Let the hero born of woman Crush the serpent with his heel. His truth is marching on. Glory, glory hallelujah.

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[Rodney Williams]

And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Larry Sweichart]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Rodney Williams]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

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What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

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[Steve Bannon]

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[Larry Sweichart]

Actually get heard in the car, at.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Larry Sweichart]

Are walking their dogs.

[Steve Bannon]

Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy?

[Larry Sweichart]

You're a good boy.

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[Steve Bannon]

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Call 844-844-IHEART or go to iheartadvertising.com that's 844-844-iheart or iheartadvertising.com this is an iheart podcast.

[Larry Sweichart]

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