THE WAR ROOM WITH STEPHEN K. BANNON, OCTOBER 20TH, 2025 (EP.#4864)

Summary

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Real America’s Voice – The War Room with Stephen K. Bannon

Episode #4864 | October 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The War Room" with Stephen K. Bannon centers on America’s shifting sociopolitical landscape, the crisis of the American elite, the role of religion in national renewal, and escalating tensions with China. Bannon hosts a deep discussion with public intellectual Charles Murray about his influential works ("The Bell Curve," "Coming Apart," and his newest, "Taking Religion Seriously"), before pivoting to contemporary geopolitics with expert commentary on China’s internal politics and U.S.-China relations. The episode concludes with coverage of a high-profile White House meeting between President Trump and Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, emphasizing global security, rare earths, and the U.S.-Australia alliance.

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Major Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Charles Murray on American Elites, Social Division, and the Turn to Religion

Timeframe: 01:26–14:44 / 17:55–27:47

The Crisis of American Elites

• "The primal scream of a dying regime...The people have had a belly full of it."
  (Bannon, 00:24)
  Sets the confrontational tone—Bannon frames the episode as a fightback against establishment elites.

Revisiting Murray’s Landmark Books

• Bannon praises Murray as "the single most serious public intellectual in this country," crediting his books for predicting America's current divisions (03:10).

• "Why was 'The Bell Curve' so controversial?" (Bannon, 03:54)

  • Murray: It was due to just "one paragraph in one chapter" addressing black-white IQ differences—much of the rest, about the cognitive elite and class stratification, was ignored (03:54).
  • "IQ had become a lot more important in determining success in this country over the 20th century...it had created a cognitive elite" (Murray, 04:12)

• On 'Coming Apart':

  • Murray describes how antagonistic class division—"the United States was clearly coming apart as of 2012"—emerged, with the ruling class "openly contemptuous of ordinary Americans." (05:50)

• Populism Predicted:
  Bannon credits Murray with foreseeing Trump’s rise.

  • "Charles Murray explained it to you...the financial crisis had the elites bound together as a class...bailed themselves out...crush[ed] the working class..." (06:32)

Murray Reflects on Conservative Institutions

• Bannon observes that right-leaning institutions also suppressed Murray’s arguments. Murray reflects:
  • "It has always been simpler in the minds of a lot of conservatives...to avoid talking about things that will make them look like bad guys...the cognitive elite...you are betraying your duty to the country..." (Murray, 08:49)

Murray’s Evolving View on Religion

• Murray discusses his transition from agnostic empiricism toward an acceptance of God, catalyzed by personal experiences and intellectual inquiry:

  • "I tried to get more engaged. I don't have a lot of spiritual perceptiveness...I kind of went at it from an empirical perspective...I may be talking about a personal God." (Murray, 10:20–11:45)

• Three "signposts" in his journey:

  1. Researching “Human Accomplishment”—finding "a great deal…had been driven by Christianity." (12:31)
  2. The physics of the Big Bang—odds of life: "a trillion to one"—"I don't believe in trillion to one chances." (13:32)
  3. C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity: "an absolutely incandescently brilliant book" (14:00).

Christianity’s Impact on the Western Civilization

• "That's one of the things that makes the Judeo-Christian West different...much of it was tied to Christianity..." (Bannon, 17:55)
• Murray: In arts and science, a Christian framework provided transcendent ideals—truth, beauty, and the good—inspiring unprecedented creative output (19:05).

The Intellectual "Reawakening"

• Murray senses a new openness toward Christianity among intellectuals as “an adolescence” of secularism wanes (24:30):

  • "My theory is...we're coming out of an adolescence. I look upon the 20th century as a time when science had provided all kinds of body blows to religion... And the nice thing about adolescence is you grow out of it eventually." (Murray, 25:11)

• He notes high-profile reversals (Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Niall Ferguson) and states even minor shifts could “change the mood, the environment…the willingness of people to think seriously about these questions.” (26:00)

Averting Catastrophe Through Renewal

• While Bannon posits America is on a civil war trajectory, Murray argues for the hope of a new Great Awakening:
  • "There is a possibility for a religious renewal which could go a long way toward at least making solutions to some of these problems possible." (Murray, 26:30)

Notable Quotes

• Charles Murray:
  • "It is such a touchstone for calling someone a racist that very few people actually read anything else in the book." (04:35)
  • "You are betraying your duty to the country…not fulfilling the traditional role of an elite, which is to provide a moral example" (08:49)
  • "We may be talking about a personal God…a 20, 25 year evolution." (11:17)
  • "A symptom of growing out of adolescence is to realize that maybe your parents were smarter than you thought." (25:31)
• Steve Bannon:
  • "If you read Charles Murray’s two books…and looked at how they were trying to solve the financial crisis of 2008...of course you knew that someone like Trump was going to come." (06:32)

Key Timestamps

• 03:54: Origins of ‘The Bell Curve’ controversy
• 05:50: "Coming Apart" and class antagonism
• 09:54: Why the right failed to support Murray
• 10:20: Beginning of Murray’s spiritual journey
• 12:25: Signposts toward faith
• 19:05: Christianity's role in Western achievement
• 24:30: Signs of Christian renewal among intellectuals

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2. China, Xi Jinping, and the Global Order

Timeframe: 31:41–44:32

Is Xi Jinping Losing Power?

• Bannon frames the CCP’s 4th Plenum as a defining moment, with speculation around Xi’s grip on power (34:02).
• Captain Fennell: Argues Xi retains control over China's propaganda, military, and security structures, despite purges.
  • "Xi still remains in charge of what they call the pen, the gun, and the knife hilt." (37:10)
• Jim Rickards: Cautions that Xi may be weakened, with internal dissent and economic strain signaling vulnerability.
  • "It is the case that Xi has been demoted, in a sense...he is in a very vulnerable position. He's losing...the Mandate of Heaven." (39:06)

Rare Earths and the U.S.-Australia Strategic Alliance

• Context: Australia’s role as a supplier amid U.S.-China rare earth competition.
• Rickards warns: U.S. cannot pivot away from Chinese supply quickly ("at least two years, probably longer to be self sufficient" – 41:06), painting the rare earths issue as leverage in U.S.-China negotiations.

China’s Economic Challenges

• Rickards details China’s hidden economic crisis—youth unemployment, currency pressure, debt, and capital flight.
  • "Their debt to GDP ratio is worse than the US...they stopped reporting youth unemployment...it was about 27% when they stopped reporting it. It's probably over 30%." (42:18–43:44)

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3. President Trump & Australian PM Anthony Albanese: White House Press Moments

Timeframe: 44:46–58:34

Rare Earths, AUKUS, and Strategic Security

• President Trump and PM Albanese celebrate a new $8.5 billion pipeline and upgraded "critical minerals and rare earths" partnership.

  • Albanese: "Today's agreement on critical minerals and rare earths is just taking it to the next level..." (47:32)

• On submarines and AUKUS:
  Trump reassures Australia and the audience that U.S. submarine production and the alliance are accelerating.

  • "We have the best submarines in the world, anywhere in the world. And we're building a few more currently under construction..." (50:01)

Tackling China & Taiwan

• Trump brushes off worries about Chinese adventurism, insisting “China doesn’t want to do that” and emphasizing U.S. military strength as a deterrent (54:27).
• On tariffs: Trump describes tariffs as his key tool for settling trade disputes and preventing U.S. exploitation.
  • "Tariffs have been really a reason that I was able to settle almost all of the, you know, I've settled eight wars in eight months. Not bad. I have one more to go. It's Russia, Ukraine and I think we'll get there." (55:25)

Light-Hearted Diplomacy

• Trump jokes with Albanese about golf invitations (52:30) and diplomatically handles a question about a past critical Australian ambassador (57:09), "I don't like you either. And probably never will. Go ahead."

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Further Notable Quotes

• Charles Murray (on patterns in the universe):
  "The odds of those settings being exactly where they were are calculated by the physicists at in excess of a trillion to one. Well, that requires an explanation..." (13:20)
• Steve Bannon: "If you understand Charles Murray, you understand the financial crash of 2008 and how the elites bailed themselves out, screwed everybody else...Trump arrived and scared and broke the establishment." (28:46)
• President Trump: "Tariffs have been really a reason that I was able to settle almost all of the...eight wars in eight months." (55:25)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Content | |------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:26 | Bannon introduces theme: internal insurrection, China, religion, elite crisis | | 03:54 | Murray recounts “The Bell Curve” controversy | | 05:50 | Class division, predicted populism, "Coming Apart" | | 10:20 | Murray’s journey into faith | | 12:31 | "Human Accomplishment" and Christianity's western impact | | 19:05 | Christianity's ideals and the arts/science | | 21:39 | Fine-tuned universe—argument for a Creator | | 24:30 | Signs of religious and intellectual reawakening | | 34:02 | Bannon introduces China segment—Is Xi still in control? | | 37:10 | Fennell: Xi’s control over Chinese state apparatus | | 39:06 | Rickards: Xi’s vulnerability, rare earths leverage | | 41:06 | Rickards: U.S. rare earth dependency | | 44:46 | Trump/Albanese White House segment begins – rare earths/AUKUS | | 50:01 | Trump: U.S.-Australia strategic submarine partnership | | 54:27 | Trump asserts U.S. military deterrence vs China-Taiwan scenarios | | 55:25 | Trump: Tariffs as diplomatic tool, settling 'eight wars in eight months' |

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Tone and Style

• Assertive, urgent, at times combative (Bannon): “Pray for our enemies. 'Cause we're going medieval on these people.” (00:24)
• Analytical, measured (Murray): Thoughtful reflection, empirical reasoning, cautious optimism for national renewal
• Policy-focused, transactional (Trump): Pragmatic, boasts of achievements, uses accessible language, mixes seriousness and humor

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Summary for Uninitiated Listeners

• This episode delivers an unapologetically populist critique of elite-driven decline in American society, invoking Charles Murray’s body of work as both diagnosis and warning.
• Murray’s experience with social ostracism underscores the challenge of confronting uncomfortable truths about class, race, and the role of elites.
• A significant theme is Murray’s and the show’s argument that moral and civic renewal—potentially via a Christianity-infused “Great Awakening”—offers a route out of crisis.
• In the second half, the focus pivots globally: China’s internal tumult, rare earths as economic weapon, and how U.S.-Australia strategic ties are sharpening in the face of Beijing’s ambitions.
• The episode closes with live audio from a Trump-Albanese summit, blending symbolic friendship, arms deals, and assertive rhetoric about America’s military and economic leverage.

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For continued discussion on these themes, Bannon promises follow-up episodes with geopolitical experts, further deep-dives into the “new federal state” of China, and the ongoing test of American populism in a world at the brink of deeper conflict.

Transcript

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jim]

This is Jim.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

Hello.

[Steve Bannon]

Jim started advertising with iHeartradio way back.

[Jim]

In April and now I have customers out the door.

[Steve Bannon]

And this is Sarah. Hi. She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June. Business is booming.

[Charles Murray]

That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

[Jim]

Want to be like Jim and Sarah? It's easy.

[Steve Bannon]

All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iHeartadvertising.com. this is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies. Cause we're going medieval on these people. You're just not gonna free shot all these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not gonna stop it. It's going to happen. And where do share the big lie? MAGA Media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Charles Murray]

War room.

[Donald Trump]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.

[Steve Bannon]

It's Monday the 20th of October, year of our Lord 2025. We're going to get back to the. What is it? The insurrection here in the United States of America and how it ties to global players. We're going to talk about the plenum that's going on in Beijing right now and all this controversy around Xi. Is he in charge? Not in charge. Captain Fennell is going to come back in a moment. Also, the representatives of the new federal state of China, Forrest, Eva and Roy will all be here. And Jim Rickards on geopolitics, politics and capital markets. Gold once again blew through 4300. As you know, when we started partnering with Birch Gold years ago, it's 1100. And we told you how this was going to happen. We said it's not about the price of gold, it's about the process. You understand geopolitics, you understand capital markets, you understand the centrality of the United States dollar, the good old Federal Reserve note as the world's reserve currency. And where that's going, if you understand that and you get, we can teach you a little bit about pattern recognition, you'll be on your own. And you've done a magnificent job. And it's only going to get scarier and scarier, even with A guy like President Trump. And, man, if we didn't have President Trump, we'd be in the abyss right now. I'm honored to have on, I think, the single most serious public intellectual in this country. And it's through Encounter Books that he's got a new book out that is going to be another game changer. So Roger Kimball and the guys Encounter. Great job. It's one of the reasons I love Roger Kimball. He's a man of utmost courage. The author is Charles Murray, and we welcome. Charles, we welcome you to the War room, sir. The reason I say this, sir, you wrote two books, the Bell Curve and Coming Apart, that you were eviscerated over by the established order of intellectuals and public intellectuals. Both books were not only simply stunning analysis, but the prophetic nature of both. And if they had read them and embraced the message, the country would be in a very different shape. Why was the Bell Curve so controversial when it came out, I think in the mid-1990s, sir?

[Charles Murray]

Oh, it was just one chapter. In fact, it was one paragraph in one chapter. The book had a subtitle, Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life. And that was the topic of the book, that IQ had become a lot more important in determining success in this country over the 20th century, and it had created a cognitive elite that had unprecedented new influence over the culture. And in the course of writing the whole book, we took on a topic that everybody asks about when you raise iq, and that's the black, white, IQ difference. And we discussed it, and we didn't say it was the apocalypse coming, but we put out the facts. And that is so controversial in this country, and it is such a touchstone for calling someone a racist that very few people actually read anything else in the book.

[Steve Bannon]

The core of the book, though, was about the white working class and the pathologies that they could eventually absorb, correct? How that would have a massive change to the country. Country had a. Had a. Through centuries, although we had a working class and quite frankly, our working class that wasn't really hardwired in to the economic system so much that we had basic social stability because this working class had not gone to certain pathologies which you identified. Right. Wasn't that. And you talked about the concentration. I saw this when I went to Harvard, that people would go, and all of a sudden you had these elites, and they'd go to these elite universities which were more powerful than ever, and people would connect with each other and get married. And so throughout the country, you had a greater and greater concentration of these elites that were detached from the rest of American life, basically.

[Charles Murray]

That's right. That was elaborated at Coming apart, which was 2012, that I put that out. And by that time, a lot of the things that my co author and I had predicted in the Bell Curve were already coming true. And of course, the title of the book is self explanatory. The United States was clearly coming apart as of 2012 in a way that it had not been in, say, 1960. It was divided into antagonistic classes and the class on top was openly contemptuous of ordinary Americans. And that was creating problems even then.

[Steve Bannon]

If you read Charles Murray's two books, and particularly the evolution of the books and the argument, and you read coming apart in 2012 and you looked at how they were trying to solve the financial crisis of 2008, of course you knew that someone like Trump was going to come and was going to become a political leader in this country. People say, well, how did you know? How did you know this? It's so evident, it wasn't hidden. And Charles Murray explained it to you. And then with the 2008 and the financial, the financial crisis had the elites bound together as a class, not politics, and took care of themselves. They bailed themselves out. The book, Chris Leonard's Lords of Easy Money, shows you the minutes of the Federal Reserve and the arguments and debates. They knew exactly what they were doing. They knew exactly what the consequences were. That heroic governor of the Federal Reserve Board in Texas laid it all out how zero interest rates and negative interest rates, all this was going to crush the working class and greatly damage the middle class in our country, all to bail out the very perpetrators of the problem. So Charles Murray, after serious thinking and coming up with the Bell Curve, which is a called short shot, and coming Apart, which is a called shot, how do you. Because Fox, the standard institutions of the right, did not come and have your back. They wanted these arguments buried as much as the left did, did they not? I mean, you had a few people that have you to speak and there's always a couple institutions that will do it. But by and large, these books were not out and not part of a central argument. So one of the reasons, when I read them, I said, hey, this is here. It's called populist national. That's going to be the thing. And people go, you can't call, you can't call it nationalism. I go, yeah, you can, because that's what it's going to be about, the American citizen. How did you feel when really institutions on the right didn't support you enough to say, no, no, no, this guy's right. And this guy is telling us that if we don't turn this thing around, we're going to head to a civil war, Sir.

[Charles Murray]

Well, I had always been creating as much problems for some aspects of the right as I was for the left, because it has always been simpler in the minds of a lot of conservatives, I think, to avoid talking about things that will make them look like bad guys. And some of the things I was saying in Coming Apart were really saying of the cognitive elite, which includes people on the right as well as on the left, that you are betraying your duty to the country, that you are not fulfilling the traditional role of an elite, which is to provide a moral example, to provide examples for other people to follow in your personal life, in your business life, and the rest. You were being unseemly, and people didn't like to hear that. They didn't like to hear it, whether they were on the left or the right.

[Steve Bannon]

You're now out with a new book, and I'll be blunt. Having been a fan and studied your talks and your speeches and your writings and your research and your books, I didn't see this one coming. Taking religious seriously, I want you to walk through how did this come about, how all of a sudden this focus of Charles Murray on Christianity come about? Walk us through it.

[Charles Murray]

It's not sudden. It started in 1985. It went like this. Steve, I am like millions and millions of Americans who are well educated. We've been successful in our adult lives, and religion has never been an important part of our life. I was never a militant atheist. In fact, I called myself an agnostic. But the main thing was I just didn't think much about it. And then my wife had our first baby in 1985, and she came to me after a couple of months, and she said, you know, my love for this child goes beyond anything I've ever known. And I think that I love her far more than evolution requires, which was a line that said, look, I understand that women are supposed to love their babies if they want to pass on their genesis, but something else is going on here. And she thought it was a. She was being a conduit for a larger love that she identified vaguely with God at that time, she was like me, religion was not part of her life. Well, she then embarked on a religious life that got deeper and deeper over the years, and I kind of watched from the sidelines. But then Starting in the mid-1990s, I tried to do my homework. I tried to get more engaged. I don't have a lot of spiritual perceptiveness. You know, I'm kind of like a tone deaf person who listens to Mozart and can't hear the beauty of the music. And so whereas she was approaching it from a very spiritual perspective, I kind of went at it from an empirical perspective. I got a variety of nudges that pushed me more and more towards saying that God not only exists, but this came as a huge surprise to me. We may be talking about a personal God. I'm talking about a 20, 25 year evolution. It didn't happen yesterday.

[Steve Bannon]

Can you give us the signpost, the mileage markers along that 25 year journey?

[Charles Murray]

Well, I'll tell you the first one where I said I've got to take this more seriously is when I researched and wrote a book called Human Accomplishment. And part of that book looked at the arts and sciences in Europe from 1500 to 1900, which is just a stunning era of accomplishment in both the arts and the sciences. And a great deal of that, it became apparent to me, had been driven by Christianity, which I had not expected to find. Well, I ended up by saying Johann Sebastian Bach doesn't have to explain his way of looking at the world. His music makes the case, and it's up to you to start taking this seriously. That was one signpost, and the next one was when I encountered the physics of the Big Bang. And now I'm not talking about religious teachings. I'm talking about what physicists have discovered about the origin of the universe, which is that at the moment of creation, there were a whole bunch of settings that had to come out exactly right in order for us to live in a universe that permits life. And the odds of those settings being exactly where they were are calculated by the physicists at in excess of a trillion to one. Well, that requires an explanation, you know, because I don't believe in trillion to one chances. And I found myself believing that I lived in an intentional universe and in part, a universe that was intended to create life. Third signpost. And Steve, this will be familiar to many of your Christian listeners and viewers. CS Lewis and the book Mere Christianity. An absolutely incandescently brilliant book which when you read it, you are constantly challenged. You are in a conversation with a man who is brilliant and who also is a deeply devoted Christian. And that set me off much more directly on the path that finally ends up with this book that's just come out.

[Steve Bannon]

Charles, can you hang here for one second? We're Going to take a short commercial break. Charles Murray is with us. The book is Taking Religion Seriously, and it is by the most serious thinker in this great republic, Charles Murray, short break. We're going to return to the war room in just a moment.

[Donald Trump]

So I suggest you take a look inside.

[Jim Rickards]

Cause I think you changed already.

[Donald Trump]

You went and lost your pride. But I'm American. I got American heart. I got American faith in America's heart.

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[Charles Murray]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist called Rolled their Eyes or just asked why Benghazi?

[Anthony Albanese]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Charles Murray]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Steve Bannon]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Charles Murray]

Bad faith, political warfare, and frankly, bullshit.

[Jim]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Charles Murray]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

[Jim]

Benghazi is a Rosetta Stone for everything.

[Charles Murray]

That'S been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

[Jim]

Yes, that's right.

[Steve Bannon]

Lock her up.

[Charles Murray]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anthony Albanese]

Phil.

[Steve Bannon]

America's Voice Family. Are you on Getter yet?

[Charles Murray]

No.

[Steve Bannon]

What are you waiting for? It's free, it's uncensored, and it's where all the biggest voices in conservative media are speaking out. Download the Getter app right now. It's totally free. It's where I put up exclusively all of my content 24 hours a day. Want to know what Steve Bannon's thinking? Go to Getter.

[Jim]

That's right. You can follow all of your favorites.

[Steve Bannon]

Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobi and so many more.

[Jim Rickards]

Download the Getter app now.

[Steve Bannon]

Sign up for free and be part of the movement. Birchgold, take your phone out. Text Bannon 989-898. Get the ultimate guide for investing in gold and precious metals. Don't forget silver in the age of Trump. Most importantly, talk to Philip, Patrick and team. We're trying to get Philip back on here tomorrow, given everything that is going on, including in the box. You can see the Australian Prime Minister is going to arrive. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is all about rare earths, a counterweight to the Chinese Communist Party. More about that in a little while. Charles Murray. Charles, go back. Human accomplishment 1500-1900. Unbelievable. Extraordinary. Never done in human history, in any culture, any civilization. It's one of the things that makes the Judeo Christian west different. And you said that was all tied back to Christianity or much of it was tied to Christianity from both the scientists, the thinkers, the artists, all of it. What do you mean by that?

[Charles Murray]

Well, let's first talk about the arts, the great values of Christianity, truth, beauty and the good. This triad of transcendental qualities that artists were supposed to use as ideals and did use as ideals during the Renaissance and subsequently. Whether the individual artists and composers and writers were themselves devout was almost irrelevant because the environment was one in which they were trying to realize these ideals. And as the art secularized in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they started saying to themselves, oh, no, great art is not supposed to express truth, beauty and the good. It is supposed to challenge the audience. And artists should not be concerned about those false, delusory ideals. We should express our personal preferences. And their personal preferences turned out to be nihilistic and banal and oftentimes very silly. Whether you're talking about hype, music or literature or the visual arts in the sciences, Christianity had a different kind of rule, which is in a very real sense, the Catholic Church sponsored the scientific revolution. The historians like to portray science and religion as being hostile to each other. And the Catholic Church is the great evil in this constantly getting in the way of science. And that simply is a misreading of history. Yes. Were there episodes? Yeah. But the overall message of Christianity was God is rational. God delights in having us explore and understand the mysteries of the universe. And that was an enormously empowering course for scientists in pursuing their work.

[Steve Bannon]

The physics of the Big Bang in these settings. Can you take a second? Because you're saying that mathematically, that you can prove mathematically, you led to the conclusion there has to be a supreme being or a God because of the way the Big Bang actually mechanically worked. What do you mean by that?

[Charles Murray]

Theory predicts a lot of things very accurately in physics, but there's what they call brute facts. Physicists call them brute facts. These are values for various things that are not set by theory. They just happen. So, for example, you have the ratio of the strong force of. Of within the atom and the very weak force of gravity. If that ratio were slightly different, galaxies could not have formed, stars could not have formed, planets could not have formed. We would live in a universe of black holes or a universe of radiation. That's. That's one. There are maybe a dozen other of these parameters that are arbitrary in one sense, but that also working together, make possible the universe we live in, which in turn permits life. I really like the analogy that a Canadian philosopher came up with to illustrate this. He said, suppose that you were sentenced to death by firing a squad of 100 expert marksmen, and they march you out and they fire and they all miss. Well, you have a couple of alternatives. One is to say, well, they all missed. I'm alive. There's no point in worrying about it. And the other one is to ask why? And in the case of the universe, it seems impossible that you would have this universe drill you to one chance. And the only alternative for that is no, these settings were driven by something else. It was putting it together. Or the alternative that physicists have come up with is to say we actually live in a world of multiple universes. I find that very hard to swallow. If you're talking about plausibility. I think probably the one universe we've got is all there is. And I also think that a trillion to one chance doesn't sound right. And the third parsimonious, plausible alternative is to say there is a God who created the universe. That's where I came out.

[Steve Bannon]

This being your book, and by the way, you can get it at Encounter Books, Roger Kimball would recommend you guys go to the site and get the book Taking Religious Seriously. Everyone should get this and read it. If I look at the arc from the bell curve to coming apart to where we are now, you see, quite contentious. I argue in the show we're heading towards a civil war, that this is an unbridgeable gap that can't be Debated away is taking religious seriously. Are you laying that out as a potential that we can avert a catastrophe in this country by returning to the Christian roots of this country? Sir?

[Charles Murray]

Well, actually, in Coming Apart, I was saying we really needed a kind of civic Great Awakening. We've had religious Great Awakenings before that we needed a new Great Awakening to turn things around. And the good news, and I'm not generally optimistic about anything, is that there are signs that Christianity is starting to have a kind of reawakening of its own among intellectuals. There are a surprising number of people in mainstream media who are now openly saying good things about Christianity in a way that you never saw in the 1980s and 1990s. You have columnist Ross Douthat and David Brooks, who are devout Christians that openly say so. You have Ayan Ursi Ali and Neil Ferguson, who have not been they were formerly atheists who've converted, and a variety of other intellectuals who seem to all have come to the same conclusion at the same time. My theory is, Steve, that we're coming out of an adolescence. I look upon the 20th century as a time when science had provided all kinds of body blows to religion. And like adolescents who say their parents are wrong about everything, I think that intellectuals started saying that traditional religion was entirely wrong. Our intellectual parents had been wrong about everything, and we rejected it. And the nice thing about adolescence is you grow out of it eventually. And a symptom of growing out of adolescence is to realize that maybe your parents were smarter than you thought. And I think that's what we're looking at now. Now you can say to yourself, what difference does it make if. If few intellectuals are suddenly less hostile to religion? It can make a lot of difference. It can change the mood, it can change the environment. It can change the willingness of people to think seriously about these questions. So I'm not saying it's a strong movement. I'm not saying it's going to transform things, but there is a possibility for a religious renewal which could go a long way toward at least making solutions to some of these problems possible. But I must say, Steve, I wrote another book that got ignored because I was canceled called Facing Reality, and in the last chapter of that, I talked about the prospects of a revolution. And I have since privately, I don't think I published this anywhere. I kind of think of the election of Donald Trump in 24 as taking the putting of pressure cooker on vent, a pressure cook that was about to explode. And we've taken some of the pressure off that and that's good. How far we will go in a direction of reconciling. That's up in the air.

[Steve Bannon]

Charles, we look forward to having you back. Where do people go to get the book and where can people go to get your writings? Website, social media, any of it.

[Charles Murray]

It's mainly like everything else. Amazon carries all of all of my works and you can get them there in the case of taking religion seriously, Encounter website has it as well.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you have a website for your writings? Do you have one central place to go to or just go to the designer counter to get your books?

[Charles Murray]

No, I have a page. If you go to the AEI.org website, I have a page on that. And on that you can access all of my articles that I've written for about the last 30 years and also a lot of videos, lectures I've given, things like that. Also, if you go on YouTube, you can pick up an awful lot of things that are at full length on YouTube.

[Steve Bannon]

We'll push people to it. Charles Murray, thank you. One of the greatest living Americans among a handful. One of the greatest. Thank you, Charles. A modern day prophet. Flat out, a modern day prophet. Been right on all of it since they tried to destroy him with the Bell Curve. If you understand Charles Murray, you understand the financial crash of 2008 and how the elites bailed themselves out, screwed everybody else. You could see that Donald Trump, a Trump like figure, had to arrive. And Trump arrived and scared and broke the establishment. A process we're still in right now. Trickery.

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Run a business and not thinking about radio. Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio and iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-iheart and get radio working for you.

[Charles Murray]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist. Rolled their eyes or just asked, why Benghazi?

[Anthony Albanese]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Charles Murray]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Steve Bannon]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Charles Murray]

Bad faith, political warfare and frankly, bullshit.

[Jim]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Charles Murray]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a Rosetta Stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Steve Bannon]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Jim]

Yes, that's right.

[Steve Bannon]

Lock her up.

[Charles Murray]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anthony Albanese]

War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Steve Bannon]

I'm informed by the war room engine room that Amazon, I think is now, since the start of our interviews, now out of books. They're restocking order. Or go over to Roger Kimball's Encounter books. An act of bravery of Roger, to put it. And this is the story of Charles Murray. He spoke truth to power. He spoke truth to the American institutions. He spoke truth to the American people. And he was essentially banned. One of the single smartest guys we've got in the country. Think about that for a second. And oh, by the way, the conservatives all ran for the hills except for a few brave institutions that would have Charles speak. And we're going to figure out something to do with him in Washington D.C. to get him here for a talk. It's so important and to tie all the books together. Bell curve coming apart, facing reality and now taking religious religion seriously. And if anybody's ever going to push back on you for your Christian faith, read Charles Murray's book. And of course, obviously he tells you to read. Mere Christianity is part of that. Anyway, more on that. We're going to have Charles Murray back. The new federal state. This getsi would go to fanel about what's happening with China because there's all kinds of rumors going on about Xi, the new federal state. People are going to join Ben Harnwell tonight. We're going to have a whole drill down of more geopolitics. So so much is going on that President Trump is trying to set things right, as I know he's pivoting for intense work on the American economy. But you got to get the situation globally or we're going to slide deeper in this third world war. Captain Fenno, all kind ofifresident Trump besants over there going to negotiate. Now we got the Australian Prime Minister here because of rare earths. President Trump is starting to engage with Lula as much as he hates that because of rare earths. There's all kind of rumors coming out of Beijing that, you know, Gordon Chang and guys I really, I love and appreciate are saying, hey, this may be the end of Xi's run and this whole rare earth thing may be the last card he played. But the established order over there is getting a little jiggy on Xi. You think the economy's all messed up, he's crossways with Trump, he's threatening a kinetic war, but they can't win it, and that he's going to be removed. You're my naval intelligence expert. What say you, sir?

[Jim]

Well, Steve, this Fourth Plenum is, you know, the 20th Party Congress for the Chinese Communist Party. It's a big event because what this fourth plenum does is set the stage for the next five year plan, called the 15th Five Year Plan that will cover from 2026 to the magic year of 2030 about where the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Republic of China are heading. And so for the last year, there has been a lot of rumors about Xi is losing power. And it started last October in 2024 with an article or a series of articles in the PLA Daily that talked about collective leadership. And a lot of folks, good intentioned folks, interpreted that phraseology, collective leadership as being an indicator that Xi was losing power and that the party was starting to emphasize, well, we need to collectively lead this country. We don't need a strongman, singular person like Xi anymore who's busted the rules and the norms for succession of power as he kept power past his second five year term. But if you look at that series of articles and then another article In December of 2024, they talk about democratic socialism or democratic centralism, excuse me. And it's not democracy or a check on authoritarianism, but is a Lennox organizational system emphasizing unified leadership of the party and the tool that the party has used to curb internal corruption. And so what we've seen over the last year is a series of purges of senior PLA officers that go back a year ago. We saw leaders of the Ministry of Defense removed. And just this week we saw the formal announcement of nine more members, one of which was the vice chair of the Central Military Commission. They have two chairmen or two vice chairs. Xi is the chairman of the Central Military Commission and there's two Uniformed officers, one of them was taken away. General he and the other, General Zhang has been attributed as having this supernatural power to be able to purge all these military leaders that they say are loyal to Xi, and therefore Xi has lost power. And I can understand the argument and the wishful thinking that some folks have to think that Xi has now lost power of the pla. But what none of these analysts say, and where I think I try to bring in a unique perspective, is you have to watch what's been happening with the PLA over this time period, not just this last year, but over the 12 to 13 years that Xi's been running the People's Republic of China. And as I've stated in other forums, there's just been this slow, steady expansion and aggressive nature of the PLA over this time period. So these perturbations, these removal of these nine officers. Oh, by the way, six of the nine weren't even active duty. They had been former officers and they'd been out of the system for some time. So my assessment is, is that Xi still remains in charge of what they call the pen, the gun, and the knife hilt. The pen is propaganda. He's clearly in charge of propaganda in China. We see him every day on PLA daily, People's Daily, China Daily, Xinhua, Global Times. He's in control of the messaging from the prc. He's got control of the pla, in my opinion, based on what we see the PLA doing, like dual carrier operations this summer that went beyond the second island chain, or even just this last Sunday, a week ago Sunday, Chinese Coast Guard ramming Filipino ships in the South China Sea. And then the third area is called the knife hilt, which is essentially the state security. And Xi appears to have control of the state security inside China and the People's Armed Police. And he seems to be in charge of the whole system. And, and I think what happened in this process was that Xi was able to do some house cleaning in advance of today's start of the fourth plenum. This was announced last Friday. And essentially Xi was able to ensure that nobody that was completely in alignment with what he has as a vision for the PRC, for the 15th year plan, five year plan, that they're out of the system now. And so I think that's where we're at, is that he is firmly established in control now. If I'm wrong, we'll know how to do that.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I want to get to that in a Second, Rickards, one of the most dangerous times in American history, geopolitically, it's one of the reasons he's got the Australian Prime Minister today, because Trump's no fan of that guy. About the economic war XI has unleashed on rare earths, do you agree with for now, I mean, this plenum is so important, particularly because it's, it's going to be right before President Trump's going to get into direct negotiations with xi. Jim Rickards.

[Jim Rickards]

Well, Captain Fadal has his facts absolutely right, so I don't dispute that at all. I disagree on the conclusion a little bit. When he says they're doing naval operations with aircraft carrier groups beyond the second Isle island chain, is that a sign of weakness or a sign of strength? I might suggest it's a sign of weakness. In other words, putting on a little bit of a show. A lot of the PLA generals who have been purged were actually appointed by xi. Now, are they disloyal or is it is what's actually going on the PLA's cleaning house of XI loyalists. The problem is it's very opaque. I don't want to pretend to have incite information in terms of what's going on there, but look at the same facts and draw slightly different conclusions. It is the case that XI has been demoted, in a sense. He now reports to a committee and the committee is run a number of members on it, but the committee is run by the play. So he's already been knocked down a peg. None of this is. And Captain Phil's right about the propaganda atlas, but they don't actually want to talk about this. They're doing it, but they don't want to talk about it. But it takes other analysts and experts to kind of get to the bottom of it. So my own view, yeah, facts are right, but I think she is in a very vulnerable position. He's losing. You know the term the Mandate of Heaven. It's an intangible concept that do the people support you or not? And they do if you have what's called the Mandate of Heaven.

[Steve Bannon]

And I think XI has lost that mandate. This is what we talked about in the very first episode of War and pandemic on 20 January 2020, when Jack Bassopi was here and we talked about that. Let me ask you, given that, how is he doing? Correct me if I'm wrong, the boldest stroke that I think they've done on economic warfare is here to threaten, cannot just threaten to cut off Americans, even after negotiating a soft Deal from heavy rare earths which will grind our production lines in weapons and automobiles and you know, international harvester John Deere, all of it to a halt in six weeks, sir.

[Jim Rickards]

Well, that's exactly right. But is that the last car? It's a tough car, it's a powerful car, there's no question about that. And shame on the United States for not having, you know, for trusting the Chinese and not having thought about this is the result of the globalists and the Davos crowd and all that. And you're right. Let's talk to Australia about it. We have a lot of rare earths in the United States happen to be fairly knowledgeable and investor in some minds in Kazakhstan that are, that are doing quite well. But you can't do this overnight. You can identify the resources, work out agreements, get going by all means, but this is a, at least two years, probably longer to be self sufficient even with our allies, with a friendly trading group. So yeah, we're in a very tough place right now. Trump's probably going to have to make a few concessions to get the Chinese to reopen that pipeline of magnets and rare earth based batteries.

[Steve Bannon]

But hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. They're, they're digging in. You're giving me the gym, by the way. We're going to have to go to this Bilati starting a little bit early. I think we'll definitely get Fanel and Rickards back up somehow. Rickards, what do you mean he's going to make concessions? I thought Besson, these guys are saying they're digging in. No concessions, no deal, sir.

[Jim Rickards]

Well, let's be like the Chinese. Let's play a longer game. Captain. Fault is exactly the Chinese economy. Let's just talk about the economy. Putting aside G, although they're clearly related, is extremely weak. Their GDP numbers were weak. They, they lie about them. So take a point or two off just for propaganda and then if you do some analysis. There's every reason to believe that China is very close to recession. Their debt to GDP ratio is worse than the US they have a worse debt problem than we do. There's a dollar shortage going on. People find that hard to believe. Like hey, didn't the Fed print $10 trillion?

[Charles Murray]

They did.

[Jim Rickards]

But that money doesn't go anywhere. They give it to the banks to buy securities and the banks give it back to them in the form of deposits. That money doesn't do anything, it's sterilized. The money that drives the world economy comes from the banks, commercial banks, Euro, dollar, banks and they're pulling in their horn. So there's every reason to believe that there's a dollar shortage, a possible monetary crisis, and China's in the middle of it. So their economy is. And by the way, six months ago they stopped reporting youth unemployment. They had always broken as a separate category. It was about 27% when they stopped reporting it. Well, that's just, you know, it's worse because that's why they stopped reporting it. So it's probably over 30%. And after you kill 20 million girls, which they did, you got a lot of men without women. And they tend to be the least attractive men in the economy. So there's an extremely volatile demographic time bomb sitting there on top of everything else.

[Steve Bannon]

What do you mean? Before we go to break, we've got about a minute and a half. What do you mean monetary crisis? Jim Rickards, now you get my attention.

[Jim Rickards]

There is a global dollar shortage and the Wall Street. Now, Wall street loves narratives. They're just stories. They're almost always wrong. Not always, but usually. So what's the narrative? The narrative is everyone's selling Treasuries, they're dumping the dollar, getting out of the dollar. US interest rates are going to go up, etc. None of that is true. And that's not an opinion. We have data. The treasury issues what's called the Tick report tic every month. You can see what countries own what. They have not been dumping Treasuries. They wish they had more, as a matter of fact. But you have to sell Treasuries to get dollars to prop up your currency and prop up your banks. There is some of that going on, but that's not a sign of, you know, getting out of the dollar. That's a sign of saying, I wish I had more, but the banks aren't.

[Steve Bannon]

Jim, Jim, you and Fanel, my producer is going to deal with. We've got to go to the president in the Oval Office with the prime minister. Australia, we're going to get you guys back up. We'll figure it out. Just stick around. Let's go right to the Oval Office. Rare earths on the menu today.

[Donald Trump]

Ships, vehicles, guns, ammunition, everything. The whole thing. We've been long term, longtime allies and I would say there's never been anybody better. We fought wars together. We never had any doubts. And it's a great honor to have you as my friend. It's a great honor to have you in the United States of America. America, please. Would you like to say something?

[Anthony Albanese]

Well, thank you so much, Mr. President, for the invitation here to the White House and for showing us around the improved Oval Office and for what you're doing around here as well. And for the great honour as well of my delegation saying just across the road, we could have walked, but they didn't let us. We drove all of 20 metres there from Blair House. But it's a great honour to be able to stay there. We are great friends and we're great allies and this is a relationship that's been forged in the battlefields of the world. We have stood side by side for freedom and democracy. And congratulations, I must say, Mr. President, on the work that you've done with the Middle east is an extraordinary achievement. And on defence, we've already had a discussion about taking it to the next level. Our defence and security partnership with Aukus is so important for us. And I thank you for the support that the administration giving as well. You've had the Chief of the Navy here as well, which will play obviously a very critical role with the subs and increasing the security for the region and the world. And our economic relationship is so important. The US has a trade surplus with Australia, as you know, and we can continue to take what is every opportunity to improve the relationship even further and make it even stronger. And today's agreement on critical minerals and rare earths is just taking it to the next level, seizing those opportunities which are before us to take our relationship to that next level. And it's been fantastic, the contact that we've had together, the friendship that we've developed. And Australians love America and I think Americans kind of like Australia too.

[Charles Murray]

That's true, we do.

[Anthony Albanese]

And as we go forward, I think that today will be seen as a really significant day in our relationship. So thank you very much, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Well, thank you very much, Anthony. It's an honor to sign this and we'll do it now and then we'll take some questions, some good ones, I think.

[Anthony Albanese]

Well, this is a eight and a half billion dollar pipeline that we have ready to go.

[Donald Trump]

That's right, it's all ready to go. Just getting started and we're doing a real job on rare earth and many other things. Perhaps I could ask John to say a few words and then we'll exchange papers. But just how are we doing on your naval purchases and all of the submarines that we're working on with Australia? How's that going? Thank you, Mr. President. Obviously, Australia is a very important ally of ours in the Indo Pacific and in every battle they've fought with us since World War I and have always been side by side. The facility that they're building, Surfwest, is critical and very important to our ability to project power in the Indo Pacific and work with our allies. So we're working very closely. I think what we're really trying to do is take the original Aukus framework and improve it for all three parties and make it better and clarify some of the ambiguity that was in the prior agreement. So it should be a win win for everybody.

[Jim]

Sir.

[Donald Trump]

And the submarines that we're building for Australia are starting to really move along. Right. The process is getting very exciting, isn't it? We're getting better.

[Anthony Albanese]

That's good.

[Donald Trump]

Very good.

[Anthony Albanese]

And it'll be great.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you very much. Maybe we'll hold this up.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

[Charles Murray]

The August defence pact that the Prime Minister just mentioned, it is a critical issue for Australia.

[Donald Trump]

Yes.

[Charles Murray]

You haven't really spoken much about it publicly. It was a deal that was done under Joe Biden to sell submarines to Australia at a time when you not.

[Steve Bannon]

Really making enough for your own needs.

[Charles Murray]

So can you tell us, have you.

[Steve Bannon]

Gotten across the details of the deal?

[Charles Murray]

Do you support it and where you honor it?

[Donald Trump]

It was made a while ago and nobody did anything about it and it was going too slowly. We do actually have a lot of submarines. We have the best submarines in the world, anywhere in the world. And we're building a few more currently under construction. And now we're starting. We have it all set with Anthony. We've worked on this long and hard and we're starting that process right now. And I think it's really moving along very rapidly, very well. Oh, it's getting. Oh no, they're getting.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

At least 32 people have been killed.

[Donald Trump]

Excuse me. You're next.

[Jim]

Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

Go ahead.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

China's bad behavior has really only gotten.

[Steve Bannon]

Worse since the Aukus partnership was formed.

[Charles Murray]

Which with that in mind is the.

[Steve Bannon]

Door open for Australia to get additional.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

Nuclear powered submarines or other military capabilities. Not already in the deal.

[Donald Trump]

I think China's been very respectful of us. They're paying tremendous amounts of money to us as in the form of tariffs. As you know. They're paying 55%. That's a lot of money. They never were paying anything over years and years and years. But they were like anybody else. A lot of of countries took advantage of the US they're not taking advantage anymore. No. China's paying 55% and a potential 155% come November 1st. Unless we make a deal. And I'm meeting with President Xi, we have a very good relationship. We're going to be meeting in South Korea in a couple of weeks and we'll see what we can do. We have a very good relationship with China, but you know, it's been, it's been probably a little bit like your relationship with China. They try and take advantage, but most countries do. I mean, I can say the European Union took advantage, but not anymore. We worked out a very fair trade deal. Japan, we worked out a very fair deal. South Korea, where I'll be meeting President Xi, we worked out a very fair deal and I expect we'll probably work out a very fair deal with President Xi of China. So most of you will be with us. It's going to be very exciting and I think we're going to work out something that's good for both countries.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

Are you at least interested in expediting.

[Steve Bannon]

The nuclear powered subs to Australia?

[Donald Trump]

Well, we are doing that, yeah, we're doing. We have, we have them moving very, very quickly.

[Steve Bannon]

Mr. President, I don't think you've ever been to Australia. Have you thought about coming to Australia and trying out some of the golf courses?

[Donald Trump]

I would and I actually have been to Australia and I did play one of your great golf courses. They have great golf courses there. But I have been to Australia actually.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

Would you come again?

[Donald Trump]

Oh, I would. In fact, I've been invited to go and indeed I'll have to give it serious consideration. It's a real possibility. He did.

[Anthony Albanese]

And perhaps we could time it. I must be said with the President's cup that Australia hosts as well.

[Donald Trump]

When is the President's Cup?

[Anthony Albanese]

We'll organise a time suitable for you. Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Please. In the back, please. Yeah, in the back, yeah.

[Steve Bannon]

Mr. President, the prime Minister mentioned that there's a trade imbalance that's very heavily in America's favour. Why do you is America slap such.

[Jim]

Heavy tariffs on a friend?

[Donald Trump]

Well, we don't. Well, we do in some cases. We do in many cases because we've been treated unfairly. But actually the tariffs are very light. The one thing is you buy a lot of airplanes, so that helps because you buy a lot of the beautiful Boeing's, the best of the Boeings, Boeing. And by the way, Boeing is really doing well. They have lots of orders and they're really doing a great job. They make a great plan. But Australia, because of its location, which is great, but one of the things dictated by that location is you have to order a lot of airplanes. So I guess we have that advantage. They need a Lot of airplanes in Australia and that gives us a little bit of an.

[Steve Bannon]

Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Charles Murray]

Your Secretary of War Pete Hegseth in his Shangri La speech in I think.

[Steve Bannon]

It was May warned about out the.

[Charles Murray]

Potential likelihood or threat of President Xi ordering an invasion of Taiwan. 2027 is also the year that fleet.

[Steve Bannon]

Based west is about to start rotating.

[Charles Murray]

Those US and UK submarines.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you see Orcas as a deterrent.

[Charles Murray]

For China in the United States?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, I do. I think it is. But I don't think we're going to need it. I think we'll be just fine with China. China doesn't want to do that. First of all, the United States is the strongest military power in the world by far. It's not even close. Not even close. We have the best equipment, we have the best of everything and nobody's going to mess with that. And I don't see that at all with President Xi. I think we're going to get along very well as it, as it pertains to Taiwan and others. Now that doesn't mean it's not the apple of his eye because probably it is. But I don't see anything happening. We have a very good trade relationship. We're going to have a very good. I think when we leave South Korea could be wrong, but I think we'll end up with a very strong trade deal. Both of us will be happy. I don't see that happening.

[Steve Bannon]

Trade surplus that the US enjoys with Australia. Would you consider lifting the tariffs that you've imposed on Australia? And can you give us any details about the critical.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, well, the tariff. Tariffs have been amazing because, you know, tariffs have been really a reason that I was able to settle almost all of the, you know, I've settled eight wars in eight months. Not bad. I have one more to go. It's Russia, Ukraine and I think we'll get there. But it's turned out to be nasty because you have two leaders that truly hate each other. You know, can't, you can't have it all, right? They hate each other beyond all else and it makes it actually a little bit difficult. But we, of the eight deals, I would say because of tariffs, four or five of them were settled. It's an amazing thing, the power of tariffs in terms of our country. But tariffs have always been used against us. We never use them against anywhere else. And now you have a president that for national security reasons and other reasons is using them. And where we've become a very rich nation again and a very secure nation again. But we've also become a nation that used that power of tariffs and the power of trade to settle five of the eight wars that I said I settled eight. I'm very proud of that. Nobody else has settled one. I don't think there's been an American president that settled one. I think there probably hasn't been outside of the two countries involved or however many are at war. I don't think there's ever been an outside country that settled the war, period. So I settled eight in eight months. I'm proud of that. Now, in the meantime, I'm running a country that's right. Now we're the hottest country anywhere in the world. We're dead. A year and a half ago, we were a dead country. Now we're the hottest country in the world, economically and otherwise. So. But I will say this. Australia pays very low tariffs. Very, very low tariffs. In fact, Australia pays among the lowest tariffs.

[Charles Murray]

There's been concern in Australia that it's.

[Steve Bannon]

Taken nine months to get this meeting. Have you had any concerns with this administration, with a stance on Palestine, climate change, or even things the ambassador said about you in the past?

[Charles Murray]

The Australian ambassador?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know anything about him. I mean, if he said bad, then maybe he'll like to apologize. I wrote on. Oh, did an ambassador say something bad about him? Don't tell me. Where is he? Is he still working for you?

[Charles Murray]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah. You said bad before I took this position.

[Steve Bannon]

Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

I don't like you either. I don't. And it probably never will. Go ahead. No, you won. Go ahead.

[Steve Bannon]

Behind you, Mr. President. Your secretary of the Navy said there.

[Charles Murray]

Will be some clarifications around, some ambiguities on the.

[Steve Bannon]

Because, can you tell us.

[Donald Trump]

Well, he'll get that taken care of. These are just minor details that he'll take care of. John, you're going to get that taken care of, right? There shouldn't be any more clarifications because we're just. We're just going now. Full steam ahead. Building? Yeah, please.

[Charles Murray]

Thank you. Mr. President, are you now satisfied with.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

Australia's defence investment or do you want.

[Steve Bannon]

Australia to invest more in defense?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'd always like more, but they have to do what they have to do, you know, you can only do so much. I think they've been great. They're building magnificent holding pads for the submarines. It's going to be expensive, too. You wouldn't believe the level of complaint.

[Steve Bannon]

This is Jim. Hello, Jim. Started advertising with iHeartRadio way back in.

[Jim]

April and now I have customers out the door.

[Steve Bannon]

And this is Sarah.

[Charles Murray]

Hi.

[Steve Bannon]

She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June. Business is booming.

[Charles Murray]

That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

[Jim]

Want to be like Jim and Sarah? It's easy.

[Steve Bannon]

All you have to do is own or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising. Com.

[iHeart Radio Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.