← Real America’s Voice
Real America’s Voice
We Need A New Movement! | DATA PROVES IT w/ Professor Penn & Mark Mitchell | EP244
01:38:46
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A
This is an iHeart podcast. Cross our hearts and hope to die by these 50 countries differing so much.
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In race and religion, in language and culture.
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A
It is a big idea.
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B
A new world order.
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A
Well, I know they're lying. They tricked me once, but they're not going to trick me twice. The time is now foreign. Welcome back to the Professor Penn Podcast. David Penn, your host. Glad to be with you as always. For episode number 244, coming to you on this Tuesday night, October 7th, 7:30pm Central Standard Time. Without much delay or ado, I want to bring on as a guest, you know, someone I'm very happy and honored to have on the show, Mr. Mark Mitchell, who is, I think your proper title is chief pollster. Is that correct?
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B
Yeah, Head pollster, Chief operating officer. There's only four people in the shop, so just take your pick and it'll probably stick.
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A
You know what a sledgehammer. That's a lot of oomph. You know, I like that. For a business model, that's a lot of bang for the buck. Four people in the shop. This is Mark Mitchell from the very renowned Rasmussen Polling, who has very generously agreed to share his time with us today. And, Mark, this is how you do politics. Okay? Now, Mark doesn't know me. This is our first meeting. And I was just saying to him we had about five minutes to meet each other before the cameras started rolling, so to speak. And what I was trying to say to Mark and what I'm saying to this audience, you know, I would love to have 10 million followers. I'd love to be like Conor McGregor. Wouldn't that be cool? But we all you, you are playing a part in this great effort that we're putting forth to save our republic, to save our freedom. And this is a political action community, Mark. We are building something here. We have a national audience, in fact, international. I got followers in Australia, Somalia, England, all over the world. And I tell all these people, whatever we're doing here in Minnesota, it works everywhere in the world. And the reason it's not working is because we the people are not doing the work. All we have to do is do the work. So what I'm trying to do here in Minnesota is find that magic, motivating speech or aggregate the right candidates or find the right formula to get enough people out into the streets. And we don't need everybody. We just need the Spartans. I'm just looking for 300 Spartans. If I have 300 Spartans, I believe that we can take Minnesota from blue to red and I, you know, I don't even like the colors. I'm going to say from tyranny to freedom. And it's so great of you to come on. Could you please share with this community who you are, a little bit of your personal history? I'd like to know myself and help people understand what polling companies do, because I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about that. And, and you could clear that up for us.
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B
Sure. And what you're saying resonates with me for sure. We would not have a republic if a couple of crazy Massachusetts militia men didn't take shots at the, at the British. You know, it wasn't about the Declaration of Independence. That came a lot later. So, yeah, often a few people really move mountains. And we're in a situation also, I think, where everybody's waking up to the fact that the Republican Party is not going to fix this. There is no plan, and it's time for all hands on deck. But I'm a political pollster, and that means I'm a professional question asker. So I just ask people questions, but I make sure that I get a good random sample of people and then I do a little bit of math and then report on what they say. And that's really it. But I guess it's dangerous because we've had clients pull, we've had advertisers shut down, we've hit, we've been swatted three times and hacked, and we got put on the CIA's Global Engagement center list of the most dangerous Twitter accounts. And so that's kind of the problem. But what it turns out is that, you know, when there's peak lying and gaslighting going on, what America thinks is a pretty important political football. And it turns out that they will lie a lot in order to try to manipulate that. And so most of the mainstream or academic pollsters are completely corrupt. And they, you know, they put out things. This isn't like sort of Venezuela levels of corruption. They put out things that are just close enough, just enough where people are like, well, maybe that is what the answer is. But what? No, it's not. And they lie frequently in very, very disingenuous ways. Like, for instance, people will say, well, the pollsters weren't off that much this time. Well, they were a couple of points to the left of me at the end. Just enough to put out a battleground map that showed Kamala Harris winning. That's what every single mainstream pollster put out, a map that showed Kamala Harris winning just by A bit, but just enough. But nobody remembers in September when they were 7, 8, 9 points to the left of me, because they were trying to conduct a psychological operation. So you have an entrenched establishment that has perfected a $10 trillion grift or whatever it is, and they will not give up power, and they will use every tool in, in their toolbox, including the Republicans. So that's really where we're at. I'm independent, which means that neither political party pays to try to get me to help them win. And I'm in it for the voter. And that's one of the things that we do that's unique. So a lot of times the pollsters will do election prediction. They'll say, oh, who's going to win in the fall? And then if they're a better pollster, they'll say, oh, let's see what the major issues are. Oh, inflation's the number one issue. Legal immigration is the number two issue. And then maybe, just maybe, they'll say, all right, well, who's leading on the issue of legal immigration? And they'll say something like, oh, Donald Trump by five points because it's his issue, but people don't trust him on prices. Or, oh, it's really more about abortion rights. Well, what we'll ask is that. No. 64% approve of mass deportations. Americans would support a 100% deportation candidate versus 100% amnesty candidate by 20 points. No. 72% think it's important to prevent illegal aliens from getting any federal benefits. No, nobody uses that word undocumented immigrant. Over and over and over again. We prove that it's like, well, fundamentally and deeper beyond this, like, red versus Blue, Republican versus Democrat political paradigm. Most Americans are mad, upset and want accountability for the absolute corruption and tyranny that's been forced down their throats. And Republicans don't even take advantage of that message. I have, like, a sum total of 0 offices of the lawmakers who subscribe to my platform asked me for polls, want me to run anything. So that's kind of weird where it's like, I'm one of the people out there that's doing the most to try and have the voices of voters heard, and yet everybody wants us to shut up, including Republicans.
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A
Well, that. That's really not a surprise to me. And I just have to tell you a little bit of my own history because we're getting to meet each other. And for those of you that are watching and watching, want to see how politics works, it's peer to peer. Mark and I have connected now on X. We're going to follow each other's posts. We'll probably respond to each other. You know, it doesn't always work. We may never talk again. Mark might come back regularly on the show. You have to. You have to try every day with everybody to build a political constituency as if you are a candidate. You have to build your own following. That's how we build a network. As Mark said, all hands on deck. And before I tell you a little bit about what we're doing here in Minnesota, why I'm asking for your help. When you got on that CIA list, how did you find out about that?
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B
We didn't find out about it until the Twitter files. So this was. The FBI was coordinating with Twitter to suppress uncomfortable voices of misinformation. And they have a sock puppet called the Global Engagement center that does. You know, the way they do this is they create NGOs that create a patina of authority. You know, the Southern Poverty Law center, the adl, like that kind of thing where they say, oh, this is group, and we fund it, and they're the authority on who's dangerous. And then they use that fake authority in order to enforce a narrative everywhere in the media. And so that's what happened. We were number 42. We had really good company on that list. You know, Emerald Robinson, Mike Flynn, Donald Trump himself, they tried to shut down the voice of the president. And all we did is just report objectively on actual evidence in cases that were happening about election integrity. And the cardinal sin of just asking Americans, well, how did you feel after getting that COVID vaccine? And do you think it's safe or not? And that was too much. That was too much for them because 25 of advertising on all news networks is pharmaceutical industry, including Fox News. So it's all a huge rotted Ponzi scheme, this kleptocracy that Americans have to dismantle, and they're the people in charge are not going to do it. And so when I say all hands on deck, I think everybody's looking around and saying, well, look at the Trump administration. He's doing a lot of good things. But I think it's also going to become clear soon, in a matter of maybe months, that he's not going to be able to fix all this stuff and that the problems go way, way, way deeper than anybody acknowledges. And so we've had a really good run. You know, this post World War II superpower status, it's given us a lot of largess. And a really comfortable country in which to raise our kids. And we've squandered it, we've allowed it to be stolen and it's going to take a political movement to claw it back. And I'm trying to figure out what that political movement looks like, but it's probably not your granddaddy's Republican Party. Like that's, I think that we can all acknowledge that's probably dead.
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A
Well, that, that is something I can certainly resonate with and I really like the way you frame that. We the people enjoyed the large jess of the post World War II Democrat liberal order and we've allowed in the convenience and safety that has been granted us to have our freedoms eroded and to allow this class which you call kleptocrats, which I think is great. Calling them kleptocrats is fantastic. You know, here in Minnesota and I don't know how close you're following Minnesota now. I, I've been involved politically and we were talking about just before we went on air and my audience knows this. I come from an academic family and I was raised to enter the academy and trained, went to an east coast school. You know, I miss, you know, I'm really good at taking tests and I've come to that conclusion. In fact, I just had a lawyer and she might listen to this and I have to be careful because, you know, I'm using her and kids, I'm in, I'm in the, I'm in the battlefield. And she sent me a letter that, because I, I review everything every lawyer writes, otherwise I lose the case. Right. And I read what she wrote and I said to myself, wow, I'm gonna have to rewrite this. Now this doesn't mean that this lawyer is dumb. It doesn't mean that she's too busy. It means that I am personally responsible for my own legal outcomes and you know, I'm, I'm self governing. So I rewrote the letter and I, I guess my point in this is each individual citizen, you're looking for that formula of how to get this movement going to unseat these kleptocrats. And you said something in a kind of a very hidden way. You know, after the midterms Donald Trump's got, even if the Republicans maintain control of the House, he's got big, he's done. I mean, he's going to be done. And we're going to watch the Republican Party, I predict. And I, you know, being a fortune teller is not my thing. I'm not big on fortune telling, but I predict if past historical processes are repeated, the Republican Party is going to turn on him after that midterm election because he's going to be a lame duck president. And what Mark is saying is, hey, this group of people in the Republican Party are not coming to our rescue. And why do I know that? Well, I'm going to tell you in 2020, after a lifetime of being tangentially involved in Minnesota politics, but very involved internationally and nationally, after that election, I said, whoa, wait a second. That math in Georgia doesn't work. Yeah, I got a serious problem with this. And I jumped into action and I joined the Republican Party in Minnesota. And it was one of the most naive things I've ever done, because if you look at my passport, I've been all over the world. I know the game. But somehow in my childlike, you know, Christ says, have a childlike heart. And that's how I came into the Republican Party, with a childlike heart. And it took me about two years to realize these were not children I was dealing with. These were pernicious agents that had an agenda, that lied when they spoke, a lot of them. And we have in Minnesota, this about a 50, 50 split now between what people call the Rhinos or. Every state is different. We have Minnesota nice, you know, nice people. They don't like swearing every, you know, hey, hey, you know, if somebody wants to have a transgender surgery and they're my neighbor, that's none of my business. You know, we're Minnesota nice. We're going to accept everything. We're nice. We're nice people. And what has happened here is in that niceness, the Republican Party has collaborated with the communists, and our state is the model of kleptocracy and is actually the incubator of leftism. And I don't know how close you're following it, but we're up to an alleged about $6.5 billion of fraud since the last Waltz election. And the U.S. attorney is in here, you know, indicting people wholesale. We had. We have all this fraud. A lot of it is focused in the, you know, a lot of the investigation right now is focused in the Somali immigrant community, which they're American citizens. They came here and got citizenship, and they actually have a Somali candidate for America for mayor in Minneapolis who's a Democrat Socialist. The Democrat socialists have basically taken over the Minneapolis Democrat Party. We've got Republicans here running for governor that when they talk, they lie. And, you know, I'm trying to call this Out. So I joined the party. I moved up pretty quick because I'm pretty good at stuff and I had my legs cut out from underneath me. And why was that? And I'm going to tell every one of you listening the reason it was is it's not about your ideas, it's not about necessarily your money. These two things matter. It's really about who shows up to vote at the local level, in the party, in the primaries, at the conventions and in the election. And you know, I didn't have the constituency built up to hold my ground in the Republican party. But you're absolutely right. I agree with you wholeheartedly that citizens like me, like you, you, you who are listening here, we have to get involved in politics. And that's what that, if I hear you right, Mark, that's what you're saying. What's the formula for getting the citizens off the couch and into the game? Did I understand you correctly?
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B
Well, unfortunately, the formula is pain. Which might not be a message many people want to hear, but I'm not a student of history, but I think we're following historical patterns where there's an ebb and flow of societal order that's caused by people reforming strong value based and cohesive institutions after a major crisis. And it's been a long time since we've had one of those. And so those institutions have been eroded. And I'll add another layer. There's this term in Silicon Valley that's been coined that I won't use the term because it's not nice, but it's called in crapification. And this, this idea that, well, okay, you have a product that was made by a team that wants to create a great customer experience. They want to serve their customer, but over time it becomes corrupted by profit interests. And they say, well, where can we cut corners? How can we squeeze the user? We need to wring out every last cent. And then it ruins the customer experience. But the customer is locked in and committed and has no other way to go. And that is basically layer that on top of the fourth turning. And I think that's where we are societal and crappification. And they've rung literally every cent that they can. One of the measures that I track of wealth inequality is five times worse than it was 20 years ago. And that's like, okay, so you know, in this area era of like, okay, now we have kleptocrats that work together for bipartisan crisis recovery bills and we have Bernanke bucks raining money down on all these Large corporations that have socialized losses. It's created a situation where now 18 to 29 year olds are. Their economic future is very bleak. They're a deeply, deeply messed up cohort of individuals and quite frankly they don't care about or want to hear about conservat like those ideas have failed them. They don't think that capitalism works because they haven't seen an actual free market capitalist system. And so you talk about the Republican Party. Well, the Republican Party exists to win elections subject to a certain set of constraints. And those constraints are provided by the donor class and the people who provide the Republican Party with money. Those people in the donor class are ubiquitously invested in maintaining the status quo. The modern rent seeking, corporate basically oligarchy, I don't know what else to call it, this massive global homo oligarchy of corporations that have embedded themselves in Capitol Hill. That's who has purchased the senators. You can see it. Or the way they question people like rfk. Anytime he gets a little bit too close to the pharmaceutical industry, the Republicans will come after him. And like you said, it's going to happen soon. This fight for the Republican Party, the future. Because Donald Trump is going to increasingly, increasingly lose political capital. And Donald Trump defined maga. He's the one that made the MAGA agenda. But what does it mean in a world where Donald Trump's not there? Well, every cent in the Republican Party that's coming from the Koch brothers, the Club for Growth, the Chamber of Commerce, every cent wants to maintain the H1B scam and flood the country with illegal alien, provide amnesty and maintain the wealth and power of all these corporations. And those are the people that back like literally everybody. Literally everybody. And you know, it happens at a softer level at the deck plates, right? It doesn't feel like that when you go and talk to your local county Republican people. But the money comes down from on high and they know what the money wants. And the money just wants people to talk like Mitt Romney. And that's fine. You can get your 62 million people. Well, a lot of them are dying. Maybe you'll get 58 million people who will vote for Mitt Romney again. But in our polling, only 58% of Trump's support came from Republicans. And Republican Party has not done anything to convert. And that's important in your state too, because Trump outperformed Republicans. And when I poll states like yours, I see the same pattern over and over and over again, which is like, okay, actually Tim Waltz does have a better favorability rating than Trump by a lot, but they still voted for Trump more than you would expect. Like Trump came really close in Minnesota. And then you see how they pull your average Republican or any person who's not Trump and that person trails Trump by 10 to 15 points. And then you look at the party favorability and everybody hates the Republican Party. And that's because it's still talking like this whole idea of trickle down economy, like it doesn't work. They took all that tax savings and offshored all of their labor, you know what I mean? Like the Americans did not benefit from that at all. And I think you have a formerly great manufacturing base in your state. I'm sure that that's really cut people deep. The middle class has been carved out and so they need again. I think it just comes back to pain. 18 to 29 year old unemployment rate in my polling is 17%. Well, if we have hard landing, that goes to 25%. And then all of a sudden I guess cities are burning. So I don't know, it's like what, what does it take for any of the parties to. Well, here's the problem. It's like the Democrat Party kind of sucks right now. They have bad national leadership they support ubiquitously, their core dogma is insane, and only about 30 to 40% of the population supports it. But their winning message right now is, is democratic socialism that is going to win increasingly as these generations age into political power. And so what's the response to that? How do we stay like a liberal free market, Christian based morality system? And nobody's fighting for that at all.
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A
Except for the people where, you know that that's such a great segue and a circle back to Minnesota because you know, Minnesotans in this audience, there's a lot of Republican Party delegates that listen to this podcast. And as I was trying to say, I'd love to have 10 million followers, but my personal mission is to organize Minnesota and make an effective Republican community. And I don't mean Republican Party community, I mean a community of citizens that believe in the philosophy of Republicanism. As you said, a liberal political philosophy of free markets, the protection of minority rights, self governance, citizen sovereigns, you know, what form this country. You talked about the, a couple of guys that winged off, you know, fired off some shots at the British on the bridge. But the people that wrote those documents were philosophers. They were, they were, they were warrior priests that understood the philosophical history of the world and were trying to operationalize a political structure that maximized human, well, being, human freedom. And those people believe that freedom and well being went together like hand in glove. Well, these democratic socialists don't believe that. They believe that we are going to sacrifice freedom for well being. They have a different model and here in Minnesota. And we're going to talk about this on Thursday night's podcast just to give a little appetizer. I'm going to talk Thursday about political strategy for an hour and a half. There was just a very widely viewed. And you would find it interesting actually. It's called Precarious State. You can find it on YouTube and rumble precarious State. It's an hour long documentary that was filmed by a former local news anchor, a man named Rick Kupchella who's gone into his own private media business now. And it was run on kstp, which is the local ABC affiliate owned by Hubbard Broadcasting. When you talk about those oligarchs that run the world, this is Stanley Hubbard's company, multi billionaire media empire all over the country. And you know, they're allegedly to the right of whoever's to the left of them. But I'm gonna tell you that, you know, they have been not supportive of Donald Trump or the citizens movement or the America Firsters, however we would call that. But if you watch this, which we're gonna talk about on Thursday, they've, they've thrown up their hands. They're terrified because the Democrat party here in Minnesota, Minnesota is the petri dish of the country. Like for example, our former chair of the Minnesota DFL is now running the DNC for example. You know, Mark Elias of election integrity quote unquote fame started in Minnesota. I could go on and on like this. But my point is they ran an hour special on this ABC affiliated network basically saying these Democratic socialists need to be stopped right now. And what's so interesting, and we're gonna talk about this, the Democrat Party on the city council of Minneapolis, the self avowed Democrats vote with the democratic socialists 90% of the time. So I don't know what they're planning on doing over there because as you were saying, that party has given over to Democrat socialism, which, let's just call it socialism. And Minneapolis is a ghost town. You know, you're a little bit younger than me. I don't know. Do you remember the Mary Tyler Moore show?
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B
No, sorry. I remember it being on Nick at night, that's about all.
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A
Okay, well, Mary Tyler Moore, you know, she, she was like America's it girl for decades. And she had a show which was allegedly based in Minneapolis and it showed this vibrant Wonderful city where she worked in a newsroom. And I'm going to tell you, Minneapolis Right now, 300 million dollar skyscrapers are selling for 6 million bucks. I mean the thing is just collapsed. The Minneapolis police department is working at probably about half staff. I mean it's rough. Okay, so the constabulary of liberal Democrats has now blown the whistle and said all hands on deck to stop the socialists. Well, hey, when you just said, what did you say about President Trump and his support, how much of his support came from non Republicans? That's very critical.
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B
42%. Yeah, 10% of it was from Democrats. You know, the exit polling might not say that, but that's what my polling says and I believe mine. And yeah, 32% from independents, 10% from Democrats.
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A
And so from my perspective, what I'm trying to do here is to aggregate a new constituency that speaks to all those groups like our producer Tanner, who is kind of a co creator with me on my show. He's 25, right? 25. He's the one that has really helped me under because the average age of the Republican Party, of course you said they're going to die off. It is 462 years old. The crypt keepers are running the party. And Tanner has taught me like, I didn't even know his generation refers to themselves as the doomers. I didn't know that. And you know that. The, the bleak prospects. And when you say, when you say they've never lived in a capitalist society, that they've lived in a kleptocracy. Man, did that hit home with me just now. That's such a great analysis. How can we expect them to embrace conservatism when they've never seen any benefits from it?
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B
Well, what's interesting too is that the sort of like donor adjacent people on the right, people who are in spheres of influence, love to pat themselves on the back because they say this generation is more conservative than in, in decades and it's absolutely not the case. Like I just put out really mind blowing polling that I've heard has gotten to the administration and so I hope it makes them crap their pants. These people are fundamentally deeply messed up and very. Yeah, doomers is a pretty good term. And you know, I, I think they get blamed. It's like why are these people so weird? Why are they snowflakes? Why can't they just suck it up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps? And it's like, okay, boomer, you have five houses and they think they're never going to get one it's gotten that bad. And everybody acknowledges that. Only 22% of Americans say that today's children will be better off than their parents. That's bleak. Like we're the hell is the American dream. And so what I see when I look at these people and poll them is that 62% of them think the economy is unfair to them. Half of 18 to 29 year olds are single and a 40 chunk of those people aren't even trying. Like they're just like, nope. And it's kind of sad because like the 18 to 29 year old male Trump voters, which is most young men, you ask them how they define success in this NBC poll I saw and they say, well, I want a career, but I want kids most of all, I want a family. Like I want to be married to a woman. Like those are high. It's like 35, 40, 45 of Gen Z young men define success that way. But then when you ask 18 to 29 year old women, Harris voters, they define success overwhelmingly like 50 as a career, marriage and children is like 6% of them. They just don't want the same things. So it's gotten so bad that they've been taught to want different things out of society. They haven't been brought up into the church. Christianity is failing them. I've done a whole lot of polling on how the churchification is, is really spreading and how in, in mainline denominations you might as well not even go to church because it doesn't even seem to affect people's value system. And then when you look at the, when you look at 18 to 39 year old Trump voters, we looked at all 18 to 39 year olds, we asked them a whole bunch of questions about socialism. People who voted for Trump in 2024, overwhelmingly by almost 80% support nationalizing major industries like health care, tech and energy. Almost 60% of them support excess wealth confiscation. And only 1/3 of them say no when asked if there should be income caps on the wealthy. And they set the income caps pretty low too, not like a billion dollars. And so it's like what it ultimately comes down to. I'm trying to define a new political spectrum because like the like Republican, Democrat, the fight is so passe. If you run on that, you're going to lose. But then is it conservative and liberal? Well, the liberal ideology is winning among the left, liberals the fastest growing ideological subset. So conservatives lose it. But if you look at conservatism, it almost sounds like a luxury belief. Like if you tell an 18 to 29 year old that we're just going to cut corporate taxes and you're going to be able to get a job. They're like, no, I, I can't get a job. Like half of 18 to 29 say that it's not possible for everybody who wants to find work to get a job. So they're going to tell you to screw you. And then the religious battle losing. Yeah, they're like 18-29s, the ones that go to church, go to church a lot. And they're identifying more with traditional things like Catholicism, but they're also overwhelmingly pro choice. Like the, like the church has completely lost that battle. And then you look at, it's like, so what battle is left? How do you define the political spectrum? Because political scientists are still using this one where it's economic freedom.
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A
And then.
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B
Authoritarianism versus libertarianism on the vertical axis. And my proposal is that if you want to understand modern politics, the new political spectrum is like fraud, tolerance versus authority, trust. And so 65% of everybody, including a huge chunk, most of the zoomers are down in the lower left quadrant that wants zero fraud. They are sick of it. They don't want this system to milk any more money out of them. And, and they don't trust anybody in authority, not even Republicans. And then if you look at where most Republican leaders are, they're in the upper right quadrant, which means they totally trust the system. They're part of it. They, of course, we're not going to hack apart the, we're not going to hack apart the cdc. We're not going to hack apart the nih. These systems have value. Like ask any Republican and they'll really tell you that. And then they also have complete grift tolerance. Sure. Like, yeah, why would we even make it look like we're going to touch Social Security? No, it's, it's totally fine. 20% of it definitely isn't going to like, duplicate payments to Venezuelan drug leaders. So the problem is, is that you have the Republican Party and the core of most voters in complete opposite sides of the spectrum. They are totally 100% not aligned.
- [34:30]
A
Like, Mark, can I slow you down? Because, you know, I like to say back what I think I'm hearing, because I don't want to get this wrong. And I want to summarize this. This is you and me talking. If the audience can benefit from this, I'm going to tell you what I heard. What I heard was we're being sold a set of attributes of the 18 to 29 year olds. And I don't mean this in an awful way. I just mean it because it's historically a fact that post the assassination of Charlie Kirk, we got all this information about his cohort on the campus and the great work he was doing there and how there's this great groundswell of conservatism amongst the young cohort. And what I think I just heard you say is that's not what your polling has told you. Did I get that correct?
- [35:28]
B
Yeah. 100. And listen, what the way I've been framing this for people is, sure Turning Point's awesome. It's doing great work. And a lot of people are patting themselves on the back and looking to Turning Point and saying that that's going to save us. And I'm saying, no, the battle is already lost. You really screwed this generation up. They do not have the same values as everybody else in America. And if they get into power, you're not going to like the way it looks and like the freedom aspect. Even, even Trump voters in 18-39s were only split on whether they would support a Democratic socialist candidate and Democrat socialist. The idea of a candidate winning is like plus 20 with the 18 to 39 year olds. And so probably if you look at Turning Point, the, the way you can explain its apparent success is that it's basically a voice in the wilderness and everybody's completely abdicated this battle. Like, we've hollowed out education. These people aren't being taught our founding principles. We remove the Ten Commandments from the school, we celebrate multiculturalism, and then we dump these people onto the Internet, which is a really dark place that is radicalizing them. There are, they are being groomed and parented by basically Reddit, the fifth largest website in the US and they go onto this online monocle monoculture that's reinforced like Roblox and TikTok and like, like, what's the response to that? We don't have any solution, period, whatsoever. In fact, most legislators don't even understand what Reddit is, let alone the fact that it's probably like the number one thing that is transing the kids. One of the examples that I kind of explained about how messed up this is is like, think about Catholicism. People have said it's resurging. And there's a lot of people, a lot of kids that were raised in Catholic families, their parents go to church, they bring them to ccd, there, crucifix on the wall. They, you know all this stuff like, think about the social pressures of growing up in a Catholic household and whether you'll become Catholic or not, like, there's a lot of on ramps. There's a lot of chances for you to make that decision for you personally. Well, more zoomers identify as gay than identify as Catholic. So there you go. Like, what that was.
- [37:44]
A
That was my next. You know, I want to review this, and you did it for me. We have this flood of articles which boomers read. Oh, there's this great resurgence of faithfulness and church attendance. But actually what you're saying is, I want to just say this back so everybody hears this. In this young age cohort, there's more self identifying gay people than there are Catholic people. Did I just hear that correctly?
- [38:16]
B
Yeah, that's right. 20. Yeah. The Catholic percentage is like 15 to 20. And 23%, according to multiple sources now of 18 to 29 year olds identify as the LGBTQ community. And it's like, part of that can be explained by public school teachers who are probably having conversations that are uncomfortable in the way that this is probably inserted in the Common Core and the books in the library. Part of it can probably be explained by parents having Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Part of it can probably be explained by a couple freaky shows on Netflix and Disney plus. But not all of it, right? Like, if something else is going on. And so when you go to Reddit, for instance, Reddit for people who don't know is basically like a modern bulletin board. It's a community where you can go find different stuff, sub communities about certain special interests. And the trans community on Reddit is bigger than the Christian community on Reddit by a lot. 620,000 people are a member of the trans community. And then there's other trans subreddits too. Like, ask transgender where you go. Like, let's, let's say you're an 18. Let's say you're a 13 year old and you want to play Fortnite and you lose. So you're like, well, how can I get better at Fortnite? Or I want to go see some Fortnite jokes. Then you'll go to the subreddit for Fortnite and you'll see a whole bunch of people who have, like little trans flags in there and they, oh, like, here's my friend, he talks to me about Fortnite. Well, what communities does he go to? Oh, he goes to ask transgender. Oh, I kind of feel a little bit weird in my body. And none of this is behind any, like, age barrier or anything. Right? And let Me also say that Reddit is half of Reddit's traffic is like degenerate porn. But so you're on Reddit and you go to ask transgender and you start talking about how you're not comfortable in your body. And then some like 45 year old trans weirdo groomer is like, well, here's how you can go to your doctor without talking to your parents and get hrt. And this group will help you find a place to live if you want to move out and like all this stuff. So that's like one of the places it's happening. Obviously there's other places, right? Like California has even like codified this into law with a Trevor project. They're putting this link to this trans grooming community on the IDs of student IDs of middle schoolers. And so like, this is the problem that like you've heard the Overton window and everybody wants to pat themselves on the back and say the Overton Window is moving back to the right. It isn't. The Overton Window, even on things like transgenderism is still moving to the left because there has been very Only Trump. Only Trump. The ubiquitously. I think almost every legislator, except for like five of them, like Nancy Mace, would come out brutally against transgenders. Because just saying no doesn't move the Overton Window back to the right. There needs to be an equal and opposite reaction. And so yes, the country is increasingly becoming accepting of transgendering minors. It's still the minority who want that, but it's a growing minority. And you're going to lose on things like reparations. It's going to happen on things like socialism. It's going to happen because there is no mechanism, not a single dollar spent by any organization to move the Overton Window back to the right. It's just not. It's like, like you look at a loony idea like reparations. Increasingly it's moving to the left because ubiquitously every, every Democrat is like, oh, I guess I should talk positively about reparations. That's what my dogma says. Well, just like a talking head saying, well, you know, Americans disapprove of reparation. That's not enough. It's like, well, what's the equal and opposite reaction? And like there is none that nothing. Everybody is abdicating these fights. Nobody is fighting for, like, people frame this as a political battle. This is like, no, a battle for the soul of America. We're talking about like we're one generation away from not having any of the Values that we grew up with. So, like, everybody's got to clear the bench and. But that, like, I just, I just don't know, like, identifying as a Republican, running as a Republican in the Republican Party, I guess it's a good start. But the, the fourth turning tells us that we're in like the final five years of where everything falls apart. So, you know what I mean? It's like, like people need to be like, quitting their job and picket lining and making counter protests and like, literally flooding the streets in opposition.
- [42:46]
A
Can I just break in for a second? Everybody can go online to Royce White's X account. Royce went last week to a Republican Party gathering in the kind of this metro area, and there was a group of leftist protesters out in the street protesting this Republican gathering. And Royce stood in the street and screamed at these people and called it a counter protest. The police came and they moved him back. And one of the leftists filmed, you know, you know, with her, with her camera, filmed Royce and she posted this thing. This thing has gone viral. And, you know, I've been a lot of. I spent a lot of time with Royce. We, we were at an event in 2024 and we came around the corner and there was like 60 protesters there, many of them dressed up in Palestinian garb. And somebody said something really, you know, scatological towards Royce, and Royce waded right into 60 people and said, okay, if that's how you feel, come on. And of course, he's 275. He didn't get any takers, but, you know, he's actually in the street confronting counter protesting, calling these people communists, calling them Satanists. And he's. But he's an army of one. Okay, well, a lot of times I'm with them. So you got two people. Well, we need. And we started a thing called Street Team here, where we're going out to all of the sports events and just holding signs and confronting people. Well, it does take a certain amount of courage. We've ceded the streets to the left. But, you know, I want to go back, you know what you're saying about this, these quadrants of where the voters are and where the Republican Party is. I want to go over that one more time, because your theory of the case is that the new politics is anti corruption and trust.
- [45:00]
B
Rebuilding institutional trust. Yes, and I can see that all, all the, all the time. Because, like, you can tell that Trump doesn't get it or doesn't want to get this aspect of it in that, like under Biden, people said by a majority that the FBI was Joe Biden's personal gestapo. And the FBI lost its 50 plus favorability rating for the first time in our polling. And it's like people say, oh, well, Trump, like trounced Kamala Harris because she was a terrible candidate once. No, I think he had a mandate because his agenda was popular. But he barely eked out a win on somebody who is basically an empty vessel. And she convinced 49% of America to vote for her. Assuming our elections aren't completely corrupt, but only 30% trust the federal government. So in my opinion, this election was a referendum on the statist overreach of Biden and the inflation crisis. And so what Trump gets into office and does, first off, I'll say he starts hacking apart the federal government with Doge, and that's when his approval rating was highest. He actually hit a 60% approval rating with 18-39s. And he's way down with them now. And that stuff's not happening. So there's, there's some evidence. Right. And I'll say people are happy with his administration. Right direction polling is setting records, but only still like 42% of America says the country's headed in the right direction. It's been higher than 40 for 35 consecutive weeks. So that's unprecedented. But it's still not. A majority of Americans say the country's head in the right direction. But he puts Cash Patel at the head of the FBI now and says, okay, it's fixed. And, and then he says, well, case closed on Epstein and believe, you know, our lying, your lying eyes about a 36. And it's like, no, people don't trust the FBI just because you put Cash Patel there. They're screaming for arrests and we haven't seen any. And so that's the problem with institutional trust. Like, we've seen organizations get corrected where the activists are rooted out and all the fraud and waste is ejected. And that happened at Twitter, where they fired 80% of the workforce. So you have this matrix, and I think it, I think it defines the left pretty well too. So in the bottom left, again, these people don't want any fraud. They don't want a corrupt system, and they also don't trust the authority. The right leadership is in the upper right, where it's like, yeah, the fraud's fine. Like, I'm Mitt Romney. I'm on the board of the International Republican Institute getting a million dollar paycheck for doing nothing. Fine. And then also, yeah, we're doing a pretty good job. You go to Washington, D.C. you go to happy hour and watch the people pile out of the Capitol Hill building and go to happy hour. They're all pretty happy with themselves. It's not. You're not. You're not feeling an existential battle down in Washington, D.C. so now on the upper left, I think you have the core of the Democrat voter, and those people don't want a corrupt system, but they trust authority a lot. And so that's like, well, if we got it wrong, it's just because we have the wrong experts there. And look at Cash Patel. He's so crass. How could Trump put somebody like that and head of the FBI? We need to get in power because we need our experts to take over this system. And then you get in the bottom right. It's like people who don't trust the authority, but they love grift and corruption. And that's like your Democrat leadership. That's like AOC who wants to be in power because she just wants to steal everything. Like that's what it is. So they're kind of in opposition, too. Like, they. And you can say, well, how do they trust authority? I don't know. There's a lot of lies right now. But to understand the fact that basically people want to burn the system down by a majority, I think needs to be the core of the Republican Party. And I like Royce White. I think he says a lot of the good things. But the problem is he's tethered to basically an impotent machine that doesn't even understand.
- [48:56]
A
No, no, wait, wait, wait. He's not tethered to that machine. We're building our own machine. And I'm listening to every word you're. Do you notice I'm not talking very much? You know, my audience knows I like to talk. I'm obviously, I'm a podcaster. Right. I am so captivated by this matrix that you're creating of what are the voters really resonating with? And I'm. I want to say this again, because this is new information for me. It's corruption and trust. And those two things go hand in hand, because if we're getting robbed, you're not going to trust the people that are robbing you. So you've just broken out this matrix, and you're saying that the young people, the future of this country, are in the lower left quadrant of this matrix. And what they are absolutely committed to is ending the corruption. And they don't trust the institutions because the institutions have not served them. They you know, like me, like you, I'm older than you. I mean, the institutions, for me, hey, it was all good until it wasn't. So to me there's something to preserve. But to Tanner, I never thought about it this way. He's never seen any institutional integrity. So for him, for his generation, it's burn it down. And then you got the boomers, my cohort up in the upper right quadrant, the Republicans, and they're saying, like me, hey, I trust the legal system. Well, I did. I don't now. That's because I read. But I mean, I grew up, you know, my mother was an attorney. You know, I grew up with a lot of respect. I have a lot of cases myself because I'm in business and I like to believe that there's something with integrity. Although I just got in an argument with my mother this week where I, where she told me and I said, well, yeah, rule of law is corrupt. So apparently I'm sliding down in the lower left corner myself. But most of the boomers are up there in the upper right corner where they believe in the institutions and they built them. They built them and they tolerate the corruption because it's kind of a, it's kind of like inventory slippage. It's kind of like, it's kind of like losing some inventory. Walmart loses some inventory, but it's still Walmart making a ton of money. We're all good. Do I understand that correctly? That upper right quadrant?
- [51:21]
B
Yeah. And they want their social safety nets to subsist and everybody says, oh, look at the that. That's the thing that pisses me off so much is that they say, oh, look at our buckling social safety nets. We're not going to have enough people to pay for my Social Security. Those 18 to 29 year olds need to breed more. Those people just need to have kids and wing it. Well, it's like they can't afford a house. You gave their job to Indians. Like, no, they can't. And everybody looks at this collapsing demographic wave and says, oh, we got a problem. Well, nobody looks at that and says, oh, also 25% of those people are gay and 35% of them have mental conditions.
- [51:59]
A
And the women don't want to have make families.
- [52:02]
B
Women don't want to have kids. Exactly.
- [52:04]
A
It's just obvious, right? And then in that upper left hand quadrant, let's talk about that when I want to get this under my belt, this upper left hand. Talk about the upper left.
- [52:15]
B
So I think those are people that fundamentally like trust authority and they think that experts can run the system, but they want their experts in basically the.
- [52:26]
A
Democrat, the, this is the, the Democrat voter, the cohort, the backbone that votes Democrat.
- [52:32]
B
Yeah.
- [52:33]
A
A lot of college educated people, they, they respect, they respect authority because they have the authority, they have the degrees. They just want their experts running the machine.
- [52:46]
B
That's right.
- [52:46]
A
And how do they feel about the corruption?
- [52:49]
B
They don't see it. They say, well, look at Trump. He's so crass, he must be a rapist.
- [52:54]
A
Oh, they blame it on the other side. They're caught up in the dynamic of left and right. So the people down, the people down the lower left, they're not caught up in that dynamic. They're saying, burn it down.
- [53:06]
B
No, they've, they've taken the, the pill, they've taken the red pill.
- [53:10]
A
And up in the upper left, that's maybe their parents. If you talk about legacy voters, those people are educated. They want their experts in place.
- [53:21]
B
A lot of, like, younger ones. And there's a lot of Christians in there too. And it's people that have been taught that they want sanitized abortion rights even though it means murdering babies. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I did a lot of religion polling and what is kind of weird is that basically like, Christians in America are only plus two pro life. And that's, that's kind of like weird considering that many would say objectively abortion, especially like later term abortion is like, obviously, obviously against biblical principles. Right. And yet overwhelmingly Democrat Christians support a candidate who was for unfettered abortion. And so they've done a lot of mental gymnastics in order to get there. But essentially that aspect of Christianity doesn't apply to them. Whereas for Republican Christians it does, and whereas for evangelical Christians it does way more than Protestant Christians. But if you look at, like, if you just say, okay, well, I, I asked a question like, who, who has the best moral character? I think was the one I used, Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. And then you look at religion subsections. The religion who's most confident in their worldview, who understands their value set clearest, is atheists, not Christians. They overwhelmingly said, oh yeah, Kamala Harris, she's the one who has the better moral character. And so obviously there's an information war going on and people are consuming different fact sets. Like, that's fundamentally the core issue. But you can't just blame it on all the lies from the mainstream media. They want to consume those core fact sets too. They want to be, they want to belong to something that has moral authority and that's dangerous because when they get power, they're going to shove it down everybody's throats. Like the Democrats wanted to put the unvaccinated in prison camps and imprison anybody who questioned the efficacy of the vaccine. These are people who are supposed to be liberal and they wanted to like almost 60% of them wanted to imprison people who question the vaccines and the Biden's strong approvers. It was like massive number. I can't remember what it was. And so it's like again going back to this right versus left, the framing of like a Republican versus Democrat battle. It doesn't capture any of the stuff. The fact that the Democrats are fundamentally insane. The 18 to 29 year olds have completely lost hope in the system and want something different. If they can't get Donald Trump, they're going to pick AOC or Bernie Sanders. That's just what's going to happen. And when that person gets in charge of the country, like maybe mom Donnie will show us what happens in New York first. I don't know now, I mean, like there's good News. I think J.D. vance is going to win in 28 probably, if, if nothing changes. But I think the Democrats are probably going to pick up the House and the Senate in the midterms at this rate. Probably. I mean history tells us they should. And like what does the Democrat Party do? Everybody I talk to says, well they're going to use the nuclear option. Well, it's like why is the Republican Party not doing anything? They have passed nothing. And it's like, oh, the 60 vote filibuster limit. But yeah, America thinks we're on the brink of a Civil War. 43% of America thinks a civil war revolution's coming in the next few years. So it's like, and I've, I've given them a very clear, like the government shut down right now. We can't get a budget unless you pass, you know, unless you pass a budget reconciliation. Right. Which isn't going to happen because the Democrats don't support it. Use the nuclear option and tomorrow pass paper ballots. Use a nuclear option. And the next week let's get bipartisan election audits. Next week let's get voter id like the week after that. Like pass something popular that everybody supports. Arrest people, they want arrests. Like 70% of America says it's likely that most legislators are profiting from the system in ill gotten ways. Like they think it's all corrupt man, like, and everybody that you talk to Every single person involved in politics is invested in the system maintaining a status quo.
- [57:33]
A
What it sounds to me like is that upper left, in that upper right quadrant, those voters are maintaining the fictive red, blue fight. And the ones in the bottom of the quadrant, those are truly the dark forces in the society that are seeking either to overturn it or to profit from it.
- [57:55]
B
That's right. That's right. 100%.
- [57:57]
A
And so this is super informative to me, just that the dynamic that the. The matrix of decision making has shifted the Overton window. And look at Minnesota. I'm going to ask you to help me look at it as we stay involved. The fraud that's going on in Minnesota under the Democrat administration, which. That's a bullshit story. Sorry, Tanner. We try not to swear because we're up on YouTube. Also, you know, the Republicans are blaming the Democrats for fraud. I mean, to me, just to me, because I'm a business person, okay, if $100 million disappear, that could be a criminal. When you start talking about billions, that would be what I would call broad bipartisan support for that system. And, you know, we got leading Republican candidates in Minnesota pointing their fingers at the Democrats. You did this. You know, you guys are the sheepdogs. You're supposed to protect the citizens. So they don't understand that every time they point their finger, there's three fingers pointing back at themselves because there's that lower left quadrant that sees the whole system as being corrupt, both sides of it. And we're not moving the needle here in Minnesota yet to address. All we're doing is using it like a cudgel. We're not really politically addressing where did the money go? See, this is another thing that really matters. You steal a little bit, they throw you in jail. You steal a lot, they make you king. We're talking about billions of dollars of Minnesota taxpayer money disappeared. Where'd that money go? Who created that funnel? I want every dollar followed. And you know why they're not going to follow it is they don't want the answer. They don't want the. The powers that be don't want the answer of where billions have disappeared to.
- [59:59]
B
Yeah, the. Like, arresting the fraudsters is the easy thing. You know what I mean? Like, the right controls the FBI now. And, like, what have we seen? Like, what have we seen? I hear that there have been grand juries and paneled. They indicted Comey. He's not in jail yet. Like, you know, like the. And the part. Everybody has to acknowledge that it's, It's. It's way worse than you know. And I'll give you a quick story. So when I was 35, my wife said, you know, you should get checked out. I think you have sleep apnea. Your dad has a cpap. Maybe you have apnea too. And so I went to my doctor, he says, well, you need to get a sleep study. I'm like, fine. So I get hooked up and I go to the sleep study. And they're like, you have apnea, you're going to die. And I'm like, no, let's not be histrionic here. I'm probably not going to die. I'm a healthy 35 year old man. This is so dangerous. You stop breathing 50 times an hour, you're going to die. Okay, well what do you like? You got to get a CPAP and you got to have that machine breathe for you for the rest of your life. And I'm like, well, I don't like that solution. So I went to an ear nose, throat doctor, a specialist, one of the best doctors in Manhattan. I had good health care at the time. And he's like, yeah, you have to use your CPAP or you're gonna die. I'm like, well, okay, what are my options? And he says, well, we can surgically disconnect your jaw here and here. It's going to cost you 50,000 and it's got like a 40 success rate and you're gonna have to, you know, eat through a straw for six months. And I'm like, well, I don't like that option either. He's like, well, there's an experimental treatment. We can shove a 10 gauge, 10 gauge needle through your tongue and pin it with like this device. I'm like, oh, I don't like that option either. And he's like, oh, well, we can insert carbon fiber slivers in your throat. It's like, you know, $10,000, it's got like a 20 success rate. And I'm like, this is the best that science has to offer. So I went home and I did some research and it took some tinkering. I tried to figure. I got, I got a pulse oximeter and, you know, reading about uncontact, uncontacted tribes in the Amazon and how people anthropologically have slept in the past, it's like, well, they just sleep on the dirt. So I'm like, all right, I'm just going to sleep on my carpet. And my apnea went away. And so I'm like, wait a minute, maybe it's just positional So I decided to sleep on my side and now I don't have sleep apnea. I taught myself to sleep on my side. I got a firmer mattress. So I asked Rock, I'm like, well that's kind of weird because it would have been millions over my lifetime to have a CPAP for my entire life. It's probably some danger with like mold and you know, like it's. And I said, okay, Grok, if half of the people that are taxpayer funded that currently are diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a cpap, if just half of those people could fix it with like health positional changes, what would be the 10 year savings to taxpayers? And Grok said $850 billion.
- [62:53]
A
Wow.
- [62:53]
B
So yes, I mean like we're not like the Republicans freaked out when they went for the $5 billion child pain medication market. So it like it's all. If we had just capped Social Security or if we just cap Medicaid, sorry, Medicare and Medicaid as a percent of GDP in 1970, we would only have $11 trillion in debt right now. And so it's all I use since you swore I'll use the phrase it's societal and shit. Ification. Every cent has been wrung out of this thing by a system that has not yet even had an opening shot fired at it. The opening shot was Trump and look at how it freaked out. It literally tried to throw him in jail and kill him. Like it's.
- [63:40]
A
This is so interesting because I started out politically trying to talk about the politics of human well being, that what can bring people together on a bipartisan, nonpartisan basis is what extends our longevity and increases our prosperity. Let's not talk about this in a left right way. Let's just talk about our longevity is in decline for the first time in my lifetime. You know we're spending more money on healthcare than any per capita than any country in the world by far. It's not even close. And you know, we're at a point now on YouTube where I think we can talk about this, but I'm not sure they won't strike this thing down. Because what I'm saying is look at you. You self governed, you went to your doctor, which was extraordinarily prudent and intelligent. You trust you don't disregard science. You went to see a technician, a scientific technician. You said, what are the different. I've been diagnosed with something, what are my potential treatments? And you, you went through each one of them and you said, I don't like any of them. Now right there, once you've done that, you're down the lower left quadrant right away because you've said, I am going to research this myself. Now, interestingly, if you look at outcomes from people that have severe disease, the ones that are the least trusting have the best outcomes. I don't know why that is. That's correlation, not causation. But having been there myself, to tell you my own story, I was diagnosed, I was recommended to have a major surgery, chemotherapy, 60 rounds of radiation.
- [65:35]
B
Move.
- [65:36]
A
And I looked at the doctor and I said, great. So I went to another doctor right in my same district. He gave me the same prescription. I said, wait a second, the same. I started thinking, maybe something legal is going on here. So I traveled out of state to a completely different legislative and legal domain and I got a completely different read. And instead of having major surgery and instead of having chemotherapy, I had a very mild treatment. And I've been asymptomatic for 30, 36 years. And I, you know, so, you know, I really resonate with what you're saying because you did your own research. Now had your apnea continued and you had felt threatened, you would have gone back to the doctor because you went in the first place. So it's not like you're opposed to doctrine.
- [66:34]
B
You just now.
- [66:36]
A
Okay, well, great. Well, you look very healthy, balanced. But, but you know, my point is you didn't, you weren't distrusting at the get go and now you've had this feedback loop where you did your own research and you healed yourself and you haven't said anything about your faith and we just talked a little bit about religion. I don't know if you're Catholic, although if you asked me to bet, I'd say you're a Catholic. I could be wrong.
- [67:01]
B
But my, I'm a recovering Methodist.
- [67:04]
A
Okay, great. Well, my point is there's something going on in life that the prevailing system does not acknowledge because it's profit seeking. There's something else going on. The church. There's something else include. Did you say including the church?
- [67:24]
B
Including the church.
- [67:25]
A
I agree with you 100%. But there's something else going on. There's something else out there and you've had an experience of healing yourself and you know that's a life changing experience. Now you're going to say, well, wait a second, how many other maladies can be addressed in some other way that doesn't cost the system $800 billion? Right?
- [67:53]
B
Well, there's many, I would assume, because I have another shorter anecdote my I have myopia. I got all the way up to four diopters by my parents sending me to get glasses and get glasses and get glasses. And, you know, you have to have a prescription in the United States to buy glasses for myopia. Not for reading, just for myopia, for whatever reason you don't in England. And so, you know, long story short, I've improved my eyesight from about four diopters to down to one and three quarters. I'm wearing one and a quarter right now. And if you go to talk to the AIs, the language models who train on information that's on the Internet, and you say, can you improve your eyesight naturally, Chat GPT is going to tell you, no, it's impossible, it's hereditary. You have to go get an optometrist to look at you. Like, that's just the answer. It's like, no, you're wrong. You can argue with it and it will not agree with you because the glasses market is too big in the United States. So everything. And people know this now, especially after Covid, because we ask people, how important is it to, you know, get your own information when seeking stuff about your health? 58%, and I forget what the opposite answer is. Like 30 couple and 56% of voters now think that the COVID vaccine, it likely caused a significant number of unexplained deaths. And people trusted the health system, people trusted Anthony Fauci, people took the vaccine and now majority of them say, yeah, it's killing people. And, you know, you haven't even got into the horrible stories about the hospital treatment protocols. Many people think that patients were murdered, like, literally just killed for money. And where's the accountability? And people want accountability. That's the thing is it's this old matrix does not work anymore. It's not about libertarianism. Like, libertarians can go screw off, you've lost. Your ideal system is might as well just be like, I mean, it's nice to want that. Maybe that's an ending point. But I think the right is authoritarianism too, because we asked a question recently about Jimmy Kimmel and did you know there was some quote we had about do you agree or disagree that fashion fascism isn't coming? It's already here. And the quote won by like almost 20 points. People are like, yeah, it was fascist, like firing Jimmy Kimmel. But that's in polling where Trump had a positive approval rating. And many of the people who said it was fascist were Republicans. So they're like, great, shut this guy up. And I mean, I'll tell you another one that's changing rapidly is that if you think, like, what's a question that you could pick that shows you the fundamental core of somebody's like, like justice system, like the decisions they make around how they've. The capital punishment, like, what do you. Should criminals get executed? And we pulled that in 2019, and it won by 13 points. Capital punishment 49 to 36. Well, we pulled the week after Arena Zarutska got the video came out of her getting murdered. And the death penalty wins by 40 points. It's plus 70among Republicans. It's plus 20among Democrats. And so three to one Americans want the death penalty now. And they overwhelmingly support. It was like, you know, by 10, 10 points. That's a pretty big majority. Trump just rolling the National Guard through cities, like, just do it. And so they want arrests. They want all they 167 supported the swamp being drained. And it's, it's just not happening. It's not happening fast enough. The windows closing. And we can blame it on Pam Bondi or whatever. Like, nobody believed her about the Epstein case. Only 16 said, the case is closed. They think that there are powerful and wealthy predators that were abusing young women and they were just told to know. Nothing to see here after a decade and a half.
- [71:57]
A
Can I just delve into this with you a little bit? Because this is another very interesting area and I want to say back what I think I'm hearing, because I'm, I'm developing some internal dissonance, because if I understood you correctly, at an earlier part of this podcast, this broadcast, you had said that Biden lost or the Democrats lost because of two primary dimensions. Number one, state overreach. And the other one was economic inflation. Did I understand you correctly? So if that's true, that state overreach was a critical issue in that election.
- [72:36]
B
Yep.
- [72:37]
A
Are we in a situation now where, if the Republican administration does state overreach, it's okay. Where is state overreach going to be continued to be a problem in upcoming elections? Because clearly Trump is testing the limits of what he can do for executive authority.
- [72:55]
B
Well, I guess they're just going to have to roll the dice. Accountability is what the state over reach needs to be, in my opinion right now. Bringing criminals to justice, uncovering the depth of corruption in our government. And that's not what was happening in the Biden administration. They were shutting down small businesses and forcing people to take an experimental medicine. They were weaponizing the Department of Justice to raid the home of a former president on a paper thin predicate that everybody saw. You know, when Donald Trump got indicted, his poll number shot up. A lot of black people flocked to him and he's still got a pretty high black approval rating, historically speaking. I think it's in the 30s right now. So it's like people saw that. And you know, looking at the Department of Justice stuff, we had numbers in the sixties of people who said that this is banana republic. And so a lot of Democrats were looking at this and saying, oh, I don't like the look of this. You know what I mean? It's like I don't really believe the story. Now the core left does who will reflexively say that Trump stole democracy and that he's a rapist. And where, where is that crucible that's forming these beliefs? Blue sky and Reddit and msnbc. Although MSNBC is like functionally dead now. Its websites like ranked 9,900th in the US and I guess CNN is dying too. But it's like, so there is good news. Like the infra war in many ways is being won, but it's like it's already poisoned the 18-29s in a way that we have not even begun to, to fathom. And I think the window is closing again because I think the Democrats are probably going to get into power in some way. And Trump's legislative agenda, what little there is, is going to be dead in November 26 unless something big happens now. Something like big stuff could happen. I'm just calling for it. They could start governing. Well, that would be great if they pass laws like here's, here's how you get to Democrats because most Democrats, if you attach the word Trump to it, they're just not going to like it. They just don't want it. They've like, they've tuned out. They think he's Hitler. But believe it or not, Democrats actually do share some fundamental values with the rest of us. They believe in fairness. So if you like anything about fear, crime, fairness, they'll be for it. Like, they don't like election cheating. They just think Elon Musk stole the election. But if you ask them how important it is to prevent cheating, 90% of them say it's important. They don't want a two tier system of justice, just like Republicans. They don't want corruption. They just don't think their side's corrupt. So you have to rub their nose in it. You just have to force it down their throats. This is how corrupt your system is, and we are not seeing that. When you, just like you, you fire off one indictment at Comey and all of a sudden Reddit has enough time to shape him into a martyr and it's like, well, knock. It's not enough. It's not going to be enough. Well, we all know how bad it is.
- [75:47]
A
We're talking about corruption. I mean, I think you and I could talk about this for hours, but I think we're seeing it in a very similar way. It's so baked into the culture, we can't even recognize it, you know? Yeah, we're talking about institutional.
- [76:01]
B
There's aspects of the Trump administration that are corrupt as well, 100%. He's surrounded by grifters. The information I think that he's get, he gets is limited. I think there are people profiting off of his administration as well. And so, like, that can't happen.
- [76:19]
A
On my podcast, we go all the way. I mean, I'm a pretty staunch critic of the military industrial complex, the medical industrial complex, the educational entertainment complex. They're all, they're all. These are the entrenched interests. This is what you call the status quo. So what we're trying to do here in Minnesota is just find enough people that are pissed off enough. And what I'm getting out of this is they're in that lower left hand quadrant. That's where those people are.
- [76:48]
B
That's what my polling says. Now, how activated are those people? I don't know. Many of them are probably happy with their status quo. Like, I don't know, like, people are not on the streets right now, but they want arrests. Like, we asked if intelligence official, if intelligence officials manipulated information in order to get Trump in the Russian collusion hoax. I forget the exact wording. It was something like that. Should they be arrested? Yeah, 57% said yes. I think only in the 20s said no. And half the Democrats are like, yeah, if they sure, they should go to jail if they manipulated intelligence. And so it's like, that's a very strong majority, stronger majority than any political question and a bigger majority than most politicians have won by in every single district across the country. And so that's what Americans like. That's. These are fundamental things.
- [77:43]
A
Let's say that one more time. This an issue of fairness, Is that what you're saying? What is the cultural value we're talking about here?
- [77:50]
B
One of the highest numbers. Everybody's like, oh, well, everybody believes this or everybody believes that. No, it never happens. It's never everybody except for, like, very, very Very few questions I ever get a number above 90. And you know, for instance, right now the number one issue in America is that people are concerned about political violence more than inflation. 90% people are concerned about cheating in elections. 90%, 95% think it's important that politicians are held to the same standard of justice as other citizens.
- [78:23]
A
This is by, this is, this is without reference to party.
- [78:26]
B
This is American, this is 100% of America. Bipartisan agreement that there should not be a two tiered system of justice.
- [78:34]
A
Let's just stick with these three again. I want to say this again, literally.
- [78:37]
B
More popular than Oxygen. Oxygen.
- [78:39]
A
I want to say these three again that are pulling over 90%. So everybody in this audience hears it. Number one, over. What are the over 90s, Mark?
- [78:47]
B
Let's hear just off the top of my head, preventing cheating in elections. What else? Rising prices. I don't even think political violence is political violence. And then the number one is two tiered system of justice. That's the highest number I can remember. There might be others from.
- [79:06]
A
And that's, and that's, that's broadly bipartisan. So then the, the battle becomes an information war.
- [79:12]
B
Yes.
- [79:12]
A
About what is the application of two tiers of justice? Because from my perspective, clearly it's functioning on a broad, bipartisan basis.
- [79:22]
B
Information war is not the right way to frame it though, because that gives you a different solution set. If you, if you say, well, it's because of the information war. Well, msnbc, like I said, is debt. It is dead. People don't watch it anymore. It only gets 150,000 people in the primetime demo. But people would say, well, we've won the information war. We have Twitter and Blue sky is a cesspit. And, and maybe your solution is to, well, we can still go after Reddit, like, maybe. But no, that's not really it. The, the problem is, is that two competing worldviews have developed. That's the problem. And that makes it a much, much bigger issue.
- [80:03]
A
Well, those are paradigm issues, cultural shift issues. And if I was going to. And just, I want to just lay this on you, because we haven't talked about them. We're coming to the end. So, you know, my read of that is there's a traditional, hundreds of thousands of years of development of human history that involves, for example, structures of faith, you know, fundamentals, sanctity of life, that there's a God, you know, that there is, you know, family, traditional values that ran smack and dab into the Progressive era starting in about 1900, which has led us to a new religion which is not fenced as a religion, but it's secular humanism. And it kind of has crept its way into our governance under the guise of separation of church and state. But I see secular humanism or this kind of worldview as being religious. All the hallmarks of a religion. It just doesn't have God or church. The church becomes the state. So we've got a religious self governance, kind of the impetus of the country, republicanism, where people self govern and their citizen sovereigns and we protect minority rights and we're kind of doing our own thing to the extent that we can. And then we've run into this new thing of a collectivist kind of statist approach to organizing human affairs. Is that what you're saying or is it something else that you're seeing these two worldviews, I guess.
- [81:30]
B
And it's so messy, but it's like, what ideals do we want? And I think that it's a relatively new development probably that we have the luxury to make this kind of decision. When our founding fathers put America together, I would assume that 95% of people were just agrarian. You know, like they, I'm sure there were people in towns and they had businesses and they, you know, you had your cobblers and stuff like that. But like, most people had farms and they didn't really give a crap about what kind of governance system that they operated under as long as they weren't taxed too much and left alone. Right? They just, oh, raise your kids. Farmed and died. And so now it's like, well, we have a system that has been built recently and it was good and we know the parts about it that were good. And so we should aggressively try to fix that. And so like, that's most of what we talked about today is like, are we gonna. Who's doing it? Like, what do we do to get there? How do we restore this system that we liked? But then there's this other question about, well, like, what's the right set of ideals long term? Because whether this system's fixed or not, the sun's gonna rise tomorrow and it's probably gonna be worse than we think in some ways and not as bad as we think in others. We're probably gonna have war. Most fourth turnings do. And you can feel the world just craving war right now. And that's usually what happens when we get so much debt. So some people will fight and die and other people won't and will live perfectly normal lives that have jobs and the country will exist still. And we'll have something that's not free market capitalism, probably not also pure socialism. But there will be, you know, a lot of friction, right? There will probably be political people thrown in jail because Democrats don't like them. They will like, I don't know. But it's like what's the right set of values to put in our crosshairs as something to work towards? And like nobody's talking about that. But it's like you.
- [83:26]
A
But Mark, you did, because you brought up something we really didn't delve into, which is the, the belief of the younger cohort of capping wealth, of clawing back wealth of making because they just don't have access to the kind of economic freedom. And you know, part of that they.
- [83:45]
B
Have no idea who Adam Smith is. They have no idea who Adam Smith is.
- [83:48]
A
And part of that is because of the global integration of business. I mean, I'm gonna tell you, having been self governing as a businessman, I've been self employed since I'm 19. If you're in the tech space, okay, great. But if you're in a traditional, what you'd call kind of a Main street business, it's really tough to make money now. You're, you're facing forces that are so.
- [84:11]
B
International, it's the insidification. I can see this in a chart. So one of the measures that I alluded to before, I didn't talk about. Everybody looks at the Ginny coefficient. I like to look at, I took. You can do this on Fred. You can go to the Fred site and put this together. Per capita total public debt divided by median real income. So like the middle person in America, what does that person earn? And so that ratio shows like kind of their ability to pay off their portion of government debt. And if you look at the chart, it's, it's been really stable at about 0.5. Which means that the middle American's income is twice as high as their share of the debt they have to pay off until about 2008. And then the chart just skyrockets up and it's up to 2.5 now, which means that Americans are five times less capable of paying off their share of the government debt. So this isn't necessarily a debt signal. It's also a stagnating median real income signal. And it's like a hockey stick. It just turned left and kept going up. And we all know why It's a financial crisis happened. We socialized losses, we showered Bernanke dollars on all these major corporations. And then they went and offshored everything. And that's. And then we passed these bipartisan, you know, crisis resolution acts that shove billions of dollars down private equity companies throats and they've literally, they've, they found a whole new treasure chest to raid and it screwed over the middle class. And now we can't buy houses. And unfortunately, the only way to fix it is by massively changing our economic order. A lot of these corporations have, have to die. Creative destruction. There needs to be wealth transfers. Like for instance, one of the best wealth transfers that we could do is to crash the housing market. Brutally crash the housing market. And that will destroy the wealth of people who are over 65 who have multiple houses. But it will make it. Hopefully if we keep Blackstone out of the market, it will make it so the Zoomers can actually buy one. And how do you do that? You deport everybody. Like literally everyone. And I, like, I hope we do. We lost 2 million illegal immigrants. And these things have consequences like it's wild. Hoban came out and said that 1.6 million illegal immigrants have self deported. And two days later, CNN reported that the number one beer in America was no longer Modelo. I kid you not. And so these things, like there are real economic consequences and this stuff has to happen because it's so corrupt. I used to work at Walmart. 70% of Walmart's technology is Indian foreign nationals. They hire illegal aliens as drivers and in the stores and every product they sell is from China. Like pretty much literally every, like 70 of our entire E commerce industry. Like if you look at Amazon and Walmart is like 60 or 70 Chinese SKUs. Why do we do that and why are we not, like, okay, tariffs. No, no, no, no, no. Like rip Amazon apart root and stem with the ftc. Like go after these people, sue the hell out of them. It has to happen rapidly because again, when the Zoomers are just going to put communists in charge.
- [87:19]
A
You know what? It's so interesting to talk. I could see we could just sit back and talk about E commerce. And I'm just going to tell you because I always forget this. We run an E Commerce tire company here to fund free People radio. It's called tireget.com. you're welcome to be an affiliate. We sell tires and we got the best deal on tires. We put them on people's, in people's backyards, you know, five minutes from your house. We get them put on best price in the country. Best service, great service. I've been in the tire business since 1979, when I started in the tire business, there was no imported tires. None. Right now today, I, you know, my brain's locking up. I think 70% of the consumer tires that we put on our vehicles, they're imported. We have offshored the tire industry. You know, it's just, it's crazy that this happened in my lifetime, but I was part of it. I'm what you would call a reformed globalist. I was in China in 1993. And you say, well, why did we do this? Well, I know why we did it because I was in the seminars when the government people came in and said, we're going to make the Chinese just like us. We're going to turn them into free market capitalists. We're going to break the back of Chinese communism. And, you know, I haven't been in China for years, years. You know, what's happened is, and, you know, I'm looking at this, you know, just yesterday, Trump took, the Trump administration took a 10% stake in another mining company. We're moving into a form of state capitalism to confront the threat that China poses, because their economic system is just better at winning. Ours is better at giving everybody a shot at losing. Theirs is better at giving the country a shot at winning. And so we're changing our. But what I'm getting out of this from you is, and I felt this myself, and I'm always afraid to say it because, you know, I come out of that kind of Reagan era, which. And Reagan was a free trader and an immigration supporter to the max. So. But there was a kind of an ethos.
- [89:31]
B
Republicans were complicit for sure. This was not a Democrat thing. Yeah.
- [89:34]
A
Oh, I think they led the charge. If you look at Daddy Bush Jr. Bush, Reagan. We have such, you know, some of the states now, they no longer have Lincoln Reagan dinners in the party. They're just Lincoln dinners. Because I think people are starting. But it's like when I say this, there's going to be people in Minnesota. How can you criticize Ronald Reagan? Well, I'll tell you how. He was the one that kicked off global capitalism. He's the one that opened the borders for immigration. He's the one that put the security state in place. He got. He just barely avoided going to jail for Iran Contra. I mean, we're looking at the corruption, really. They had the Mahajjahedin in the White House in 1983, you know, the predecessors of the Taliban. We're welcomed into the White House and we don't look at these things because we're not students of history. But my point is, you know just talking with you, we could just take an hour and talk about since you have that Walmart experience, the numbers, the stats that you just laid off about.
- [90:40]
B
7% corporations are too is on incredible because everybody misunderstands the problem and this goes deeper. We're going to have like major corporate issues too because fundamentally the problem we have, the reason we're in the fourth turning is because integrity is gone. Like there is no integrity in, in the institutions that means the corporations because it doesn't just mean that they're teaching you critical race theory and that they're doing like gay pride events. It's that like everybody's decision making process and I'm broad brush here in positions of leadership is focused around non objective measures. It's about what feels good and makes the resume look better and what's better for their personal, you know, cohesion. The like brown nosing and looking good in the corporate setting. And that's how you get cracker barrel lit on fire. That's how you get Star wars and Marvel. It wasn't necessarily because of the message, is that because a lot of people sat around a room and said well it's okay if we talk about the message in these things. And in Walmart I was the person whose job it was. I ran a team of 100 people to fix the issues with their delivery which are many, there are many. And we did it. We fixed millions and millions of customer orders. We found all the things that these Indian engineers did wrong. We brought all this attention to it. I basically made myself a hero for the customer inside Walmart and everybody in leadership hated it. They just hated it. I mean they didn't want to know.
- [92:09]
A
How bad it was, how bad the customer experience was. And see here what we do at this company is all we care about is service. That is the old integrity of the main street businessman. Where I come from I live to make relationships with my customers and that's gone. That's part of the hollowing out of the integrity. I, you know, when I try to do business now, I can't even get to human beings. I get caught up in these automatic, you know, receptionists. Press 1 for this, 2 for that, 3 for that. It's such a devaluation of humanity.
- [92:46]
B
Yeah. Then you go to the Philippines and somebody who doesn't know and then you provide them data about your experience and they don't use it. I was the first person to cross reference customer call data to upstream Order information in Walmart. The first person and I only did it in 2019. So it's like not that long ago.
- [93:07]
A
It's not that long ago.
- [93:09]
B
They had a 12% customer contact rate. This is the second largest e commerce platform, 12% customer. That one in eight orders required somebody to get on the phone. And I actually put in place an analytics program to measure all the things wrong with the order. They hated it, they wanted to go on. But over 40% of orders had at least one thing wrong with them in Walmart when I was there. And I'm sure it's just as bad, if not worse.
- [93:35]
A
But then what's even makes it really painful is when the customer calls and nobody cares. And that's if we could get one change in the society. One of the things I'd like to see happen is, is that we care one for another, which is actually kind of a Christian ideal. You know, treat your neighbor as you wish to be treated. You know, there are fundamentals that are getting lost here that are getting swept out in what you called rent seeking. Right?
- [94:03]
B
Yeah. Walmart's whole goal is to keep you off of the phone with an American as long as possible because it costs more money.
- [94:10]
A
Yeah, this is a great way to end. It was great to talk to you. The point is, it's about the money. We gotta follow the money. And this is kind of a perversion of the American way, because in America we were free to pursue our economic, you know, life, liberty, and the pursuit used to be the pursuit of property. They changed the pursuit of happiness. But we have grown up in a system which has been weaponized against itself. And you know, that's, that's great if.
- [94:41]
B
You'Re a libertarian, I love those ideals, that's fine. But if we lived in a libertarian country right now, everything would be controlled by Amazon and Google. That's it.
- [94:51]
A
So what you're saying is, is that the way the system has been exploited is going to force us to change the system to deal with the exploitation. And actually, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying the window is closing. We have to move quickly to do this if we want to do anything at all to keep the country away from socialism as this younger cohort grows older. Do I understand correctly your theory of the case?
- [95:18]
B
That's exactly it. And I try not to have my hair catch too much on fire about it, but, you know, maybe I'm overselling the problem, but I think most people listening are probably like, no, you're not.
- [95:30]
A
Well, we got, we Got it. We're gonna. I hope you come back. What we gotta do here is in Minnesota, find a way to get younger people engaged in politics. We have to find issues that create unity, real unity. We got to get off the spectrum of blue and red because that's just tying us up in a meaningless fight. And while we're fighting with each other, we're getting robbed. Here in Minnesota, they're up to six or seven billion dollars of just fraud. And I'm going to say again for everybody listening in Minnesota, steal a hundred million. That's a crook. Six or seven billion. Follow that money and then we're going to really learn something. Mark, was so nice to meet you. I really enjoyed listening to you and I hope you'll come back because what we need is some data. We need to organize our efforts around what is the future of the electorate. So I want to thank you for informing me. Sincerely, Tanner. Thank you for coming in this morning, Mark. We'll have you back soon. Everybody. Can you please, Mark, share your social media handles for the audience that might want to follow you? And I suggest that they do.
- [96:47]
B
Yeah, sure. I'd love to be back. I think one of the things that could help if is if there was a national movement that's not maga. Like Trump can't fix this all and it's not the Republican Party. People need to come together. I would love to help pull for that organization and provide my insights. Maybe Elon can fund it, I don't know. But something's got to happen to tie all of these grassroots together and now's the time. But yeah, honest Pollster on Twitter and Rasmussen underscore poll on Twitter and YouTube just did like an hour and a half video yesterday. That kind of really steps through like more provides the numbers backing up, like my theory of the case. I go a lot more into the religion too. This like, kind of existential struggle we're in. So if people want to go check that out, it's up.
- [97:30]
A
Tanner will be putting the links to your socials in the description of the podcast. Thank you so much. I wish you well. It was very enlightening for me. I enjoyed listening to you tremendously. I'm sure the audience did. I wish you well. And as we say here at Free People Radio, Godspeed to you, sir.
- [97:49]
B
Thanks so much. Great to be here.
- [97:50]
A
Thank you. Thanks, Tanner. Of course. Have a good night, everybody.
- [97:54]
C
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- [98:50]
A
This is an I Heart Podcast.