← Real English Conversations Podcast – Real English for Global Professionals | Speak Clearly & Confidently at Work
Real English Conversations Podcast – Real English for Global Professionals | Speak Clearly & Confidently at Work
🎙️Business English with Curtis Davies & Gabrielle Dolan | Real English Conversations Podcast for Global Professionals
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- [00:01]
Gabrielle Dolan
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- [00:28]
Curtis Davies
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- [01:10]
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- [01:41]
Curtis Davies
Real English Conversations podcast where we help you to communicate clearly and confidently in the conversations that matter most in the workplace and your professional life. Hey everyone, it's Curtis Davies here from the Real English Conversations podcast, the show that helps global professionals to speak clearly and confidently at work. This week we're talking about one of the most powerful and misunderstood communication skills in the world, authentic storytelling. And my guest this week is Gabrielle Dolan, and she's been teaching storytelling and business for more than two decades, long before it was trendy, long before it became a leadership buzzword, and definitely long before AI entered the conversation. She's an international keynote speaker and the author of eight books, and her latest book, Story Intelligence the Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI, debuted as Australia's number one business book and hit Amazon's global hot new releases list in multiple communication categories. She's worked with some of the biggest brands in the world and her mission is simple. Make communication authentic and real again. Gabrielle Dolan, welcome to the Real English Conversations podcast. It's great to have you here.
- [03:01]
Gabrielle Dolan
Oh, thanks for that intro, Curtis. I'm excited to talk to you about all things real communication and storytelling.
- [03:08]
Curtis Davies
Yeah, and you're also a podcast host too, right?
- [03:11]
Gabrielle Dolan
I do. I have my own podcast called Keeping it Real with Jack and Ralph. So I'm the rel of that duo. And of course, keeping it Real, it's all, it's a, you know, just career advice. So every, every Monday it drops. So we have a whole lot of fun doing that.
- [03:26]
Curtis Davies
Beautiful. Let's start here. Gabrielle, you've been teaching storytelling in business for more than two decades. Quite a long time and long before it was a thing. What originally attracted you or drew you into this work and what made you realize storytelling was the missing skill in leadership and communication?
- [03:44]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, Curtis, I used to work at National Australia bank, so one of Australia's largest banks. And it was in my, you know, I had were in senior leadership roles, but the last couple of roles I was in was in project management and change management roles. So rolling out large digital transformation, although I don't think we called it digital transformation way back then. And what I started to notice is that when I shared a story about the reason why we would needed to change, the message seemed to get through better. Now, it wasn't a magical silver bullet, but people seemed to sort of respond with, oh, yeah, I guess it makes sense or I never thought about it that way. So I started to realize that the really good leaders were sharing stories and the brilliant, you know, educators and presenters were sharing stories. So because I had done quite a bit of designing and delivering of leadership training in my previous roles, I actually thought, I think communication is a skill. I think it's a communication skill. I think it's a leadership skill, an influencing skill and I might give it a go to teach people how to do it. So that was almost 21 years ago to the, to the month. I just sort of thought, you know, if it didn't work out, my children at the time were 2 and 5 and I thought, if it doesn't work out, I'll spend a bit of time with them and I'll just go back and get another job. But it'd be fair to say it's worked out. So now, now, you know, storytelling is absolutely seen as a key leadership skill when, yeah, It'd be fair to say 20 years ago, it was. I spent a lot of time trying to educate people on the power of storytelling.
- [05:29]
Curtis Davies
And that early realization leads beautifully into your new book. Your latest book, Story Intelligence, the Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI, has recently become a number one business bestseller. What does story intelligence actually mean? And why do you think it's resonating so strongly with a lot of people right now?
- [05:51]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, so before I should even say that, and knowing your audience, I should give everyone hope to say, this is the eighth book I published, but in my final year of school, I failed English. So it's like, you don't have to be brilliant at English to write books. So, yeah, when I was writing the book, I really liked the concept of story intelligence, and I think for two reasons. One, it sort of reminded me of emotional intelligence, and I think emotional intelligence and story intelligence are quite, quite linked in some way. But I. When I thought, oh, is there a definition? I looked. There was no definition, dictionary definition of story intelligence. So I had to. I had to. I had to come up with one, and I said it. Actually. I actually spent a lot of time trying to get the wording right. And so it's a bit of a long one. But if I. If I share what story intelligence means, to me, it's the ability to purposefully and skillfully use authentic storytelling to communicate with clarity and to connect, engage, and inspire. And I think the key phrases in that is it is an ability, so it is a skill, you know, to purposefully. So purposefully and skillfully use authentic storytelling. And authentic is, I think, the most important word there. And then, yeah, the whole reason we're doing it is so we communicate with clarity, so we get our message across. And in the leadership roles that we actually, you know, connect with our customers or engage our employees or inspire people about what we're trying to achieve with our strategy or vision or purpose. So that's. That's the definition of it in a. In a nutshell.
- [07:31]
Curtis Davies
Of course, the word that you use very often and the people that struggle with it the most is authenticity.
- [07:40]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yep.
- [07:40]
Curtis Davies
You talk about this a lot, about being authentic with your storytelling. In a world full of rehearsed scripts and corporate lingo and jargon, and now AI generated language. What makes a story truly stand out to be authentic?
- [07:57]
Gabrielle Dolan
Curtis? The reason my previous book, I wrote four years ago, and I was convinced it was the last book I was going to write on storytelling because, you know, seriously, there's only so much you can write on one subject. But I actually felt compelled to write this book. And the reason I felt compelled is because I had so many people say to me that I'd be running workshops, and they would go, well, AI is going to replace storytelling. And it was like, no, no. It's like, no. I was, like, shocked to even think of the concept. And it was like, no, it's not going to replace storytelling. And then I had. Then I had a lot of other people say, can you use AI to help with your stories? And my initial reaction was, no, but you can. And we will probably discuss that later. But with AI we are now. So there's AI There's AI Generated content. We're in a world of distrust because of that. And with so much AI generated content, it's sort of like everyone's starting to sound the same. And, you know, I don't know if you. You know, when you ever read something and you just know that I. It's been AI Generated, and you just lose all credibility in the message and. And the person. So I. I truly believe that our authentic stories are needed now more than ever, especially in a world of distrust and in AI Generated content. And I think a really, really big trap for leaders is to use AI to help them with their stories and with their content and just use it. And it's. It's a. It's a trap because it lacks authenticity. And it may sound good. I often say, you know, you might get AI to help you generate a story, and it might sound good, but does it sound like you and I. I think everyone is so conscious of AI generated content that. That we are, like, looking at everything and going, is that real? Is that AI? And we're almost questioning everything. So I think it's. So. It's so important to be authentic with your storytelling. I mean, I think it always has, but I think now it's absolutely critical.
- [10:02]
Curtis Davies
Yeah, and that's for podcasters, too. It's in every industry. You can hear what's put on and. And what's phony and what's fake. You know, when it's. You know, I come from a radio background, so it's theater of the mind. It's. It's acting almost in. In a lot of ways, and part presenting as a presenter, a broadcaster. And it's no different with podcasts. So you can really tell which ones are authentic, like this one with real people and real stories and real, you know, history behind it, and you can tell the ones that are just quickly generated and there's no emotion. There's no authenticity there.
- [10:45]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, yeah, it's one of the. In the book, I. There's chapters on different things. Like, you know, there's, you know, stories for presentations and stories, you know, in leadership and sales. And there's actually. I actually put one in stories around social media, podcasts, and social media, because, as you would know, Curtis, as a podcast host, one of the things you want to do is build a connection with your audience. So you want. You want to, you know, you want them to feel like they really know you and. And the way you can do that History story so critical for podcast hosts. But it's exactly the same in leadership. If you, you know, if you're leading a team or. Or dealing with clients or stakeholders, what you want to. You want to build that connection and relationship with them. You know, one of the fastest ways you can do that is through an authentic story.
- [11:31]
Curtis Davies
And many of my listeners are international professionals speaking English as a second language. And this is where the challenges really start to appear. They have low confidence. They're like, do I sound authentic enough in this meeting that I need to lead? My boss tells me my English is awesome, but I. A perfectionist or I have confidence issues, that sort of thing. For the professionals listening, especially global professionals speaking English as a second language, what do you think are the biggest mistakes people make when they're trying to tell a story, even at work?
- [12:05]
Gabrielle Dolan
Before I get onto the mistakes, just your question made me think, because a lot of people go, you know, when you're sharing a story and you work in a global organization, does it go across cultures? And I think it absolutely does go across cultures, I think. And I. What I find also, you know, I run workshops around the world, and there'll be someone, you know, from a, you know, a country that I don't know much about, and they might be sharing a story about when they grew up. And I'm getting the message of the story, but I'm also learning something really interesting about their country or their culture or their background that I didn't know before. And so that's actually just really interesting. So I'm getting to know the person better as well as I'm understanding the message that we're trying to get across. So I, I think, you know, if you're. If you're working in an environment where you're the only, you know, you. You come from a different country than everyone else in the room, I would say that as an opportunity that you can actually, Your stories could actually be quite insightful because people are learning something as well as, as hearing the message. So I just wanted to say that because I think, you know, a lot of people shy, so going back to the mistakes, a lot of people think, you know, I'm, I'm speaking to a room full of Americans and I grew up in Australia, so a story about me growing up in Australia wouldn't be relevant. It actually would be really interesting. And, and so, and people go, oh my, I didn't know that. Right. So, so one of the mistakes people make is thinking my story wouldn't be interesting enough or relevant enough. And this actually goes, you know, regardless if we're all from the same country, all from the same culture. I, what I think is the most powerful stories anyone can share is their personal stories to communicate a big message, a work message. And when I say personal stories, I'm not talking about, you know, deepest darkest fears and being really vulnerable and oversharing. It's just something that didn't happen at work. And so how you take those non work related stories and communicate them. And so I call them again. In the book, I talk about the four types of stories you can share. Parable public, professional, or personal. And I think your personal stories are the most powerful yet. They're the most underutilized stories. So I think just acknowledging what stories are powerful is a mistake. There's a whole lot of other, like, just tactical mistakes with storytelling. The main one is going too long. I said the biggest mistake people make is going too long. So my advice is if you're sharing a story, it should be about 60 to 90 seconds. And if it's going longer than that, people are thinking, get to the point and they're starting to switch off. And you know, the whole idea of sharing a story is you want to connect and engage people. So they've got to be really succinct. And another mistake I see is besides people making up stories, that's another mistake I see. So I always say they're going to be authentic. It's the way you start your story. Don't start your story with let me tell you a story. Like, can you, you know, you know, when people go, let me tell you a story, it's like, please don't, please don't tell me a story. So I always say you start with time and place and it can literally be, you know, when I was a kid, I grew up on a farm or you know, last year we went on an African safari and it's straightaway, towels the audience that you're about to hear a story. And you know, as human beings, all human beings, we are hardwired to share and listen to stories and we listen to stories differently.
- [15:45]
Curtis Davies
That's a great way to know how to start a story because students will come to me and they'll say, how about this and how about that? And it's the time and place.
- [15:54]
Gabrielle Dolan
Just start with time and place. Yeah, yeah. And look, you don't need to be really specific with time and place. You could say when I was a, you know, a kid or 10 years ago. It doesn't need to be like the exact date.
- [16:07]
Curtis Davies
Yeah. Next week I'm going to blah, blah, blah. And I'm going to do this and that and use curiosity.
- [16:14]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah.
- [16:15]
Curtis Davies
And just hyper focus on the, the topic of the story that you want to tell and don't worry about the quality of, of how you're telling it so much other than to just get right into the story. Be interesting. So people are interested.
- [16:31]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah. One of the things I've really noticed works really well with people that English as a second language. You know, again, I've worked across around the world and I really noticed this quite a few years ago when I was running storytelling workshop for a marketing team. It was the Asia Pacific marketing team. So there was people from Australia, then Singapore and China and Japan and Indonesia and you know, every. Everywhere in Asia and there was a man from Japan and his English wasn't as good as the others. So I mean I, I could still understand him but I, I had to like struggle I. To really listen to understand him. And when he got to, when he got to telling the story, it was a story about him being on a train and he caught the train and it was really crowded and he almost like mime, he sort of, you know, when he was talking about, it was really crowded. He like, he crunched up like you would on a really crowded train. And the fact that he was just doing, I mean he wasn't doing like totally acting it out, but because he was doing some little physical movements, it, it really helped me. Like I didn't have to, I didn't have to struggle at all to understand the story. So when he was talking normally I had to really concentrate to get his message. But when he told the story and because he was doing these little, you know, acting bits in doing, doing it, I totally got it. It just flowed freely and I just completely got the message and it wasn't a struggle for me. So that, that can really help as well. Just, you know, again, we're not, you're not acting it out. But just, you know, doing a few little things to bring the story to life can really help.
- [18:16]
Curtis Davies
Body language is so much part of, of storytelling and communication. So that's, you know, and it makes it easier to understand. If you can do a few little actions or facial expressions or whatever to bring that understanding concept out, then you're going to be easier to understand.
- [18:36]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, absolutely.
- [18:37]
Curtis Davies
And when people feel that they're not good enough or not good storytellers, this next issue always comes up. Even if they feel they're not creative or they don't have any good stories, what practical steps can someone take to become a better storyteller?
- [18:54]
Gabrielle Dolan
That happens a lot too. Like, I'll be running workshops and people go, but I just don't have any stories. And the reality is we all have stories. What they're sort of saying is I don't have any big, big, amazing stories. Like I don't have, you know, climbing Mount Everest type stories. So my advice is always go down to just things that happened every day. It might be useful if I share an example of what I mean by these sort of day to day stories. And so I, I was working with a Risk team. So I'd run into, run it, run a workshop with the entire Risk team and the head of Risk, her name was Rosemarie. And Rosemarie said that the, one of the biggest challenges she had in her job is that when she would be talking to the business unit she supported as risk manager, whenever Risk was raised at a problem, they'd sort of look at her and go, you're the risk manager. That's your job. And she said this week, with digital
- [19:47]
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- [20:16]
Gabrielle Dolan
She goes, it didn't, doesn't matter how many times I've told them I cannot manage their risk. All I can do is help them manage the risk. She said the message doesn't get through. The behavior doesn't change. She like, she was really frustrated. She said, look, I've given example after example, case study after case study, and she's going, I have tried Everything to get this message through, but it hasn't worked. And she had tried everything except a personal story. So this is the story she shared, and I'll share it with you. And I think, you know, your. Your listeners will. Will appreciate how simple the story is. So the story she shared was when. When I was a child, I grew up on a farm. And growing up on a farm, there was all these, you know, dangers that we needed to be aware of, but Mum would teach us what to do. So I knew what to do when I came across a back a redback spider in the timber heaps. I knew about all the potential traps in the dam after heavy rain, and I knew what to do if I ever came across this snake in summer. And I remember one day I was running down to get my bike, and then I just froze because in front of my bike was this massive copperhead snake. But I remembered everything Mum taught us to do. So I played statues and I slowly walked backwards until there was enough space between me and the snake and I ran back to the house to tell mom. And I'm sharing this with you because it reminds me of the role we play in risk. All I can do is give you the skills, knowledge, and advice. So when you come across your own copperhead smart snake, regardless of what that looks like, you will know what to do. Now.
- [21:49]
Curtis Davies
Beautiful.
- [21:50]
Gabrielle Dolan
Curtis, let me ask you three questions about that story. Does that story help you understand the message better? Does it help you understand the role of a risk manager and the role you play in risk? So does it help you understand the message better? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's. That's. Okay. First, mission accomplished. It actually helps you get your message across better. Second question I want to ask you is, do you think you remember the story? Do you think you'll remember it?
- [22:20]
Curtis Davies
Parts of it?
- [22:22]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, you will. You sort of will remember. And I can talk a little bit about why we remember stories because we don't remember data, facts, figures. That's very hard. But stories make your message sticky. And I'll talk. I can talk a little bit about that later. But the third one is you just said you remember parts of it. So if you had to rate, like, if you had to retell that story to someone else right now, you wouldn't do it word for word. You don't have to do it word for word, but I. I think you would be able to tell it without losing the meaning, without, you know, still getting the message across. So. Yeah, so some of the fundamental challenges are when you. When you're Communicating. Whenever you're communicating, do people understand what you're saying? Like really understand it? Do they really understand it? Can they remember it? So when the meeting's over, when the presentation's finished, you know, when the discussion's ended, can they actually remember what you said? And if they had to, could they go back and tell it to others without losing its meaning? And a story, a personal story, a really simple personal story like that will give you traction on those three things. Understand, remember, retell. Where facts, figures, stats, still need them, still important, but they're not sticky. People remember stories because stories go into our, they tap into emotion and they go into the long term part of our brain. And that's why as humans, we remember stories.
- [23:55]
Curtis Davies
I tell my students, they're like, how am I going to remember this vocabulary? Well, let's make it a memory. Let's put it in a crazy story. The crazier, the better, the more bizarre the better. And let's repeat a couple of the words that you want to make stick in your head. And then let's repeat that story three times. With a repeat it three times technique, it's going to be a story that you use to remember things that you want to remember. So when you think of a picture, every picture tells a story. The crazier, the more bizarre, the better and the more you're going to remember about that experience behind the picture.
- [24:37]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, so it's interesting you said picture then, because what else the story does? And if I sort of said to you when I was sharing this story about the copperhead snake, you would have visualized that and every one of your listeners would have visualized that. But if I asked them to tell me what you saw, every single person would say something different. But you have visualized it. So that's the other thing, what a story does, it helps you visualize it in, in your way, so making sense with you. So the story, that's what the story does. And it, and it taps into emotion which helps us remember it. I, quite a few years ago, I was in New York with my daughter Jess, and we went to the 911 Memorial Museum and it was like, it was a one hour tour. We went on a tour. And so like any tour, you know, you learned there's, there was lots of facts and data and information and then there were stories. And as we were walking out, Jess said, mom, how tall did the guy say that column was? And I couldn't remember, I couldn't remember 10 minutes after. And I'm not saying that that Information wasn't interesting. It was interesting at the time. I just couldn't remember it 10 minutes later. The stories I heard, I will remember for the rest of my life, the stories I heard. So when we think in business, when we're trying to communicate our messages, yes, you need data, you need all that information, but that's not what's going to stick. And so the stories will make your message sticky. So I always think, you know, think of data and stories as your Batman and Robin, like, together. Together, they make a bit of dynamic duo.
- [26:10]
Curtis Davies
Excellent. And this leads perfectly into another interesting part of your latest book. Story Intelligence. The craft of authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI explores how storytelling AI can work together. Now, we got to be careful with this. We want to stay authentic and use AI as our assistant. What role do you believe AI should play in storytelling, and what role must remain human?
- [26:37]
Gabrielle Dolan
Curtis When I first started writing this book, I was coming from the point of view that you can't use AI for storytelling. I sort of was thinking, oh, it's cheating and it won't be real. And that was my premise at the start of the book. But because I was exploring the topic, I actually started to do. Do some stuff myself. And what surprised me is I would get into ChatGPT, for example, and say, can you give me a personal story written in the first person around Risk management? So let's just say risk management. And it would come back with a story. And I was actually, I was about to say I was pleasantly surprised then, but I was, like, disturbingly surprised how good it was. And I was actually going, oh, that's good. But it didn't feel real because it wasn't real. So I then started to experiment a lot more. And what I was finding is the AI stories, even though they sort of made sense, the story made sense, there was something missing. And what was missing was emotion, and what was missing was authenticity. And I actually did. I actually did an experiment in the book where I. I chose six different topics, right? So topic on innovation or courage, you know, teamwork. And I wrote a story for each one of them. And then I got a chatgpt to write a story and Chord to write a story. So there was 18 stories in total. And I asked a whole heap of people to rate the stories on, you know, different things, like clarity. Did. Was the message clear? Were you engaged? Did it feel real? You know, was it memorable? And they rated them out of four out of the six stories, everyone. And first of all, they had no idea whether they were AI generated they just thought they were all six different. 18 different stories. Right. Four of the stories, I was rated higher on everything. One story, it was a dead heat. Like, it was like, oh, my God. And then in one example, they rated the AI Generator stories better than mine, which I must admit, took. You know, it's a bit of a dent to my ego. But it reinforced what I knew, that because when it came to the rating for all my stories, clarity and authenticity were rated really closely together. So there was very little difference between how people rated clarity and authenticity. When it came to all the AI stories, clarity was quite high on a lot of them, but authenticity was really low. And so it reinforced what I thought, that the stories can be clear and they can make sense, but they don't feel real. Right. One of the traps, you know, we've spoken about is that leaders can get a story. They can get AI to help with it, and it can sound good and it can sort of make sense, but it doesn't sound like you, and it's a real trap. So in the book, I talk about how you could use AI as your storytelling coach. So literally. So, Curtis, say if you were, you know, you had a podcast and you wanted to talk about innovation and you wanted to share a personal story, but you just couldn't think. You just couldn't think of a personal story. Yeah, if you and I were having a cup of coffee, I would go,
- [29:58]
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- [30:29]
Gabrielle Dolan
Tell me about a time. Have you ever had a time where you've tried something different to do and it's worked out or it hasn't worked out? And can you think of a time when. And I would ask you all these questions and. And you would think of a story because I've asked you these questions? So get AI Just get into AI and write the prompt. Be my storytelling coach. I need to find a personal story around innovation. Can you ask me questions that is going to help find that story? And so it will ask you all these questions, then you'll get a story and then it will say, just give me some bullet points, what happened? And it turns it into a story. Now, this is where you've got to be really careful. So you sort of say, this is what happened, this is what happened, this is what happened. And then it will come back with a story. And then you have to go through it and go, that didn't really happen, so you can't use it. Or sometimes you go, actually, that did happen. And I'd sort of forgotten about that. Or that didn't happen, but this happened, you know, so you've got to go through it to make sure it is 100% accurate. And then you've. Then you've also got to look for words that you would normally use. So my advice is say any, anything that AI has helped you generate, whether it's a story or a LinkedIn post or a newsletter, say it out loud. And one, if you're saying out loud, if it doesn't feel comfortable how you would say it, then change it. And, and if you're, if you're doing that, you won't lose your voice in it. So my, my key thing is, don't lose your voice. Treat. Treat AI as your creative partner, but don't let it take control of what you do.
- [32:12]
Curtis Davies
Yeah, you have to double check.
- [32:14]
Gabrielle Dolan
Yeah, yeah. As we know, it likes to hallucinate, it likes to just please you. It likes to make stuff up. Yeah, There was an example. So I talked about the four types of stories. If you, if you're looking for a public story, you can use, I mean, you can sort of use like AI, like advanced Google, where you just go, you know, I'm looking for a story about Steve Jobs and innovation, and it will come up with all these stories. But I actually did that in the book, as you know, as a process. And I said I could remember this story about Steve Jobs when his engineers brought him the latest iPad. And he said, make it smaller. And they said, oh, we can't make it any smaller. And he dropped it in a fishbowl and said, and air bubbles came up. And he said, if there's air bubbles in there, you can make it smaller. But I didn't know the specifics of that story. So I asked Chachi pt. And it came back with the story about the iPad. And then after I read it and I thought, oh, no, it wasn't the iPad, it was the ipod. So I checked and it was the ipod. And so I said to ChatGPT, why did you say it was the iPad? And the. And you Know, they come back and going, well, you, you asked for the story about the iPad, so, so you, so even though it's like, I know, but it's not like a, it's not like a human that would go, I, I know you asked for the story about the iPad, but it was actually the iPod. Clearly AI is going to get better and better and better. But you do, like, that's just general. When you use AI, you just got to be, you've got to check everything.
- [33:46]
Curtis Davies
Once people understand that balance, then something powerful happens. They start communicating differently. And you've trained a lot of leaders around the world. How does storytelling improve influence, connection and trust, especially in workplace based communication.
- [34:04]
Gabrielle Dolan
One of the science behind stories. And again, this is why I think the personal stories are most powerful, underutilized. So the whole reason we're sharing a story is to communicate our message better. But when we share a personal story, the science shows that we not only connect with the story, but we connect with the storyteller. So what that means it's either fast tracked in trust and connection and relationship, or it's strengthening an already existing connection and relationship. I, when I run my workshops, Curtis, I get, you know, after I've taught everyone the process of how to, how to tell, how to find a story, how to start it, beginning, middle and end, I then get them to practice their story and I put them into small groups and they practice their story. So, you know, just one or two minutes a story. And then when they're finished, I deliberately ask the question. I go, tell me what you liked about that. And they'll say two things. They go, it was actually really enjoyable listening to other people's stories. Right? So they've said that even though they've thought my story isn't like, isn't interesting, it is because they found everyone's interesting. And then the other thing they say is, I feel like there's a stronger connection with the people in the group. Now these could be people that have just met each other or it could be an intact team that have worked together for years. And I've in fact had someone say that to say, I've worked in this team for two years and I feel the strongest connections out of these sharing stories. And I have over two years. So that is the real power. It can fast track a relationship. Now if you think of, think about this in the, if you're a salesperson and you're trying to pitch for work, if you can come out, if you've shared a few personal stories that have connected the people making the decision will go, not sure what it was, but I just feel a stronger connection with that person. I just feel we can work together. And as humans, we, we make decisions based on emotion. Like, let's, let's not, you know, we use logic to rationalize. So because what the story has done, it's fast tracked the connection. And then, and then also, you could imagine if you're working with clients for a long time or you're working with a team, every time you're sharing a personal story, you're strengthening that relationship. I mean, that's like the added benefit to stories. That's the added benefit you get when you share a personal story as opposed to a work story. So the work stories absolutely work and they get your message across, but it's normally missing out on that added benefit of strengthening the relationship.
- [36:44]
Curtis Davies
And it's so emotional, so emotionally based on stories with different emotions throughout one story, you can have multiple different emotions. And as you were telling that story and you're getting people to feel, especially like you said in a sales type of situation, you want to give those warm fuzzy moments to the people that you want to close the deal with. You want them to feel that. So giving good stories and information with emotion is going to help that go way further than before.
- [37:20]
Gabrielle Dolan
You don't need to know what emotion you want to tap into. A lot of people go, well, you know, what emotion am I trying to get them to feel like? I don't, don't worry about determining what emotion you want them to feel, because you've got no control out of that. I always go back to what's the message and when, especially when it comes to, for example, like a sales process or leadership, it comes down to value. I would often go, so when you're dealing with potential clients, what's the one thing you want them to feel like? It is sort of when you walk away or what? And they sort of, they go, they'll say something like, I really want them to know that they can trust us. Okay, so it's trust. And I go, okay, so you need a personal story around trust. You need a personal story around why trust is so important to you. It could be, I know they want to feel they can work in partnership or collaborative with us. Okay, so you need a personal story on that. You can have all the work stories. Like, you can have all them, but that one personal story will do more heavy lifting than 10 work stories. So, yeah, it's tapping into what, what is the, what's the real message you're trying to communicate. And whether that be trust or, you know, collaboration or reliability or whatever it is, have, have a personal story for that about why that's so important to you.
- [38:42]
Curtis Davies
All right, let's make this incredibly practical for everyone listening right now. What is one simple storytelling technique that professionals can start using today even to communicate more clearly and confidently at work?
- [38:55]
Gabrielle Dolan
I'm going to start at the beginning, even before the story. Be really clear on your message. Just have one single message. It's not like, you know, I want them to feel, I want them to understand collaboration and blah, blah, one single message. So even if it is something like collaboration, I'd be, what does that mean to you? What does it mean to you personally? And be really clear on your message. And once you're clear on the message, then it's so much easier to go. Now I can find a story that will, that could communicate that that's such
- [39:24]
Curtis Davies
a valuable and easy technique to apply. Something anyone can apply immediately, even today. Gabrielle, this has been such a fantastic conversation. You've given our listeners clarity, practical tools and powerful reminders that communication is not about perfection. It's about connection, authenticity and humanity. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and your passion for storytelling with us today. And before we wrap up, where can my audience find you? Connect with your work and learn more about all of your books, including the latest one Story Intelligence. The Craft of Authentic Storytelling made smarter with AI.
- [40:02]
Gabrielle Dolan
Well, you can go to my website. So Gabrielle Dolan.com But I'm very active on LinkedIn, so if you want to see storytelling in practice, connect with me on LinkedIn and yeah, and the latest books available, you know, online in stores all over the place.
- [40:17]
Curtis Davies
Wonderful. Thanks for joining me on the Real English Conversations podcast.
- [40:20]
Gabrielle Dolan
Thanks, Curtis.
- [40:22]
Curtis Davies
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- [46:29]
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