184. REAL DEAL: Winning Big in Las Vegas Real Estate with Jen Dutson

Summary

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Real Estate Investing School Podcast – Episode 184

REAL DEAL: Winning Big in Las Vegas Real Estate with Jen Dutson

Release Date: August 15, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jen Dutson joins the Real Estate Investing School podcast to break down a recent real estate deal in Las Vegas. Jen shares her journey of moving beyond her home market in southern Utah, creatively transforming a single-family home into a profitable multi-bedroom rental, and using her network and real estate strategies to maximize cash flow. This episode is a practical, step-by-step look at finding, funding, and “forcing” a real estate deal to work, including actionable insights and lessons learned.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How the Deal Was Found

• Jen's Market Expansion:
  Jen typically invests in southern Utah, but this opportunity arose in Las Vegas via her brother, whose mother-in-law needed to sell her house as she entered assisted living.
  “This opportunity came up in Las Vegas. My brother lives there and his mother in law was going into assisted living... I said, hey, I'll buy it.” [02:17 – Jen]

• Networking & Sharing:
  Jen emphasizes how sharing her investments and projects broadly (especially on social media) led to others thinking of her when opportunities arose.
  “I’ve noticed so much the correlation between sharing more and then people asking questions... people thinking of me when they have a house for sale.” [05:54 – Jen]

2. Making the Numbers Work: The “Force the Deal” Strategy

• Initial Plan and Adaptation:
  The house was a 3 bed/2 bath, but it had spaces that could be converted into extra bedrooms. Jen and her husband turned it into 5 bedrooms, increasing its income potential.
  “It was a three bedroom, two bath and we created five bedrooms and two baths. So it had a few things that just kind of made sense.” [08:27 – Jen]

• Renting by the Room:
  Instead of renting to one family, the house is rented by individual rooms to 25- to 30-year-old adults—a demographic looking for affordable options.
  “We've just rented it...to 25 to 30 year old, just kind of young adults that can't really afford a place.” [02:17 – Jen]
  “All the people in there are 25 to 30 year old, just kind of young adults that can't really afford a place.” [02:17 – Jen]

3. Funding the Deal

• Financing Model:
  The property was purchased using conventional financing.

• Use of HELOC:
  Jen used a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) on her primary residence to fund the down payment and rehab.
  “We got a HELOC on our primary residence...we just have a home equity line of credit on this home so that we can use that here and there where we need to.” [16:06 – Jen]

• HELOC Advantages:
  “I don't have to get permission from anyone to borrow. I can pay it back whenever I want. I can withdraw it again. I love it.” [16:33 – Jen]

4. Rehab and Rental Numbers

• Purchase Price & Rehab:

  • Bought for $350,000
  • Planned rehab was $20,000; actual spent was about $35,000 due to unforeseen contractor issues.
  • Rehab included converting living spaces and a backyard workshop into bedrooms, installing a mini split, and freshening up interiors.

• Rental Income & Expenses:

  • Bedrooms rent between $775 and $1,100 (master).
  • Monthly expenses: mortgage ~$2,400, total rents brought in ~$4,500.
  • Cash flow: ~$1,500/month after utilities and expenses, with a buffer for utilities.
    “We cash flow about 1500 a month on it.” [13:15 – Jen]

• Creativity in Property Use:
  Jen reflects on how getting creative transformed a mediocre deal into a great one.
  “It's crazy. You take a average deal to a really, really above average deal just because you can think outside the box.” [14:25 – Host]

5. Lessons Learned & Advice

• Lessons from the Process:

  • Contractor Challenges: Vet contractors more thoroughly, especially when investing out of state. Don’t rely solely on referrals from friends.
    “I should have done more up front to properly vet and get like real prices up front because, you know, I ended up almost doubling by the time we were through.” [19:16 – Jen]

  • Roommate Logistics & Management: Jen deals with familiar roommate conflicts, implementing written expectations, and minimal oversight.
    “I have in there that they're willing to share responsibilities with other people. I put, like, a little checklist on the fridge...just a way for them to be like, hey, this week someone does garbage.” [22:25 – Jen]

• Advice to Aspiring Investors:

  • Look for properties with flexible layouts or extra spaces that can be converted.
  • Don’t limit yourself by your own preferences—think about what renters want.
  • Research local rental demand online (e.g., Facebook Marketplace).
  • Be open to adapting your strategy to market needs. “I used to be really hung up too on, like, I'm, like, I wouldn't live with a bunch of people I don't know. So why am I trying? I was trying to put myself as the renter, and then I...had to take a step back and say, this is a great option for a lot of people out there.” [21:02 – Jen]

• Handling Roommate Issues:

  • Minor disputes are left to tenants to resolve, with guidelines set in the lease.
    “...you guys, you're adults. You can figure it out. And then for more, like, if we need to come down to, like, big scenarios...we can deal with that when we get there. But so far, I haven't had any of that.” [24:55 – Jen]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sharing Your Journey:
  “There's so much power that just comes from sharing what you're doing. It's actually even harder to reach, like, large, large audiences. It's usually the people that are closest to you...” [06:30 – Host]

• On Leverage and Real Estate:
  “It's real life Monopoly is what it is.” [19:01 – Host]

• On Creativity and Returns:
  “You have to know what to look for and know how to go get creative and go hustle. And that's what I've seen you guys do.” [14:25 – Host]

• On Apprehension and Market Shifts:
  “Times are changing, and it's just a better option for a lot of people.” [21:02 – Jen]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jen Introduces the Deal & Her Backstory [02:17]
• Importance of Networking & Sharing Your Projects [05:54]
• Identifying and Evaluating the Property [08:27]
• Decision to Rent by the Room [09:24]
• Rehab, Conversions & Rental Numbers [11:39]
• Use of HELOC & Creative Financing [16:06]
• Lessons from Working with Contractors [19:16]
• Advice for New Investors [21:02]
• Managing Roommate Dynamics [22:25]

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Conclusion

Jen Dutson’s experience illustrates how creative problem-solving, strategic use of funds (including HELOCs), and a willingness to adapt can turn a run-of-the-mill real estate deal into a high-cash-flow investment. Her insights stress the importance of sharing your journey, vetting contractors, and seeking properties with untapped potential—lessons highly valuable for both new and experienced investors.

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Transcript

[A]

I don't have to get permission from anyone to borrow. I can pay it back whenever I want. I can withdraw it again. I love it.

[B]

What's up, guys? Before we launch into today's episode, I want to take this time and announce that Real estate investing School 2.0 is on the horizon. We've spent so much time the last six months to a year diving into how we can make Real Estate Investing School bigger, better, more valuable than ever, and it's going to absolutely blow your mind. It's been a ton of time, a ton of money, a ton of energy, and we're excited to announce it to you all for following along for listening to the podcast. We are also going to reward you, so more on that. In the meantime, with Back to School on the horizon, Real estate investing school 2.0 is what you have to look out for. We will see you soon and enjoy the episode. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. This is a real deal series. We're going through one real estate investing deal today. And this is exciting because we get to talk about specifically how a deal was found, how it was funded, and how it was forced, or in other words, how ultimately you're getting creative and working with what you have to make the best deal possible. And so these are so powerful because we get to dive into all these different scenarios and situations and strategies and it is the best way to learn. So today we have Jen Dutson as our guest. What's up, Jen?

[A]

Hey, how's it going?

[B]

Oh, so good. So excited to talk, talk about a deal that you've done today, which you've done lots of deals and you're doing lots of deals. We were just talking about how you've been flipping a house, doing a lot of work on the floors the last couple of days. So. And it's looking good.

[A]

Yeah, it's turning out.

[B]

Yeah. Well, cool. I'm, I'm excited to talk about one deal specifically today so people can kind of learn from it, but maybe give us the overview and then we'll, we'll jump in and I'll ask you some of the questions on it. But first, start us off with just kind of the basics. Tell us about it.

[A]

Okay, so, so I'm down in southern Utah and I've just been investing in southern Utah. This opportunity came up in Las Vegas. My brother lives there and his mother in law was going into assisted living. So they were selling her home and I said, hey, I'll buy it. So they wanted to put it on the market. They didn't want to give me a deal or anything like that. They wanted to just sell it at full price and which is fine. So they actually ended up putting it on the market and testing it out and they got it under contract, but then the contract fell through. So I said, okay, let me buy it. So I bought it. We ended up just doing conventional financing on it and then we just fixed it up and then we rented it by the room. And it was just different because before I'd thought of just renting by the room to like college kids. This one, we've just rented it. All the people in there are 25 to 30 year old, just kind of young adults that can't really afford a place.

[B]

Cool. Okay, you made that sound so simple. It's that easy, huh? I wish, I wish. Okay, well, let's dive into all the pieces that go into this. So I think like, I love just pointing out things that might come obvious to you or to just a lot of experienced investors in general, but I think it's so good to just kind of like touch on them because it's easy for us to just skim, skim over the top. But at the end of the day, like real estate is pretty black and white, right? As far as what we're trying to accomplish, there's different strategies, different ways of doing it. But at the end of the day, as far as a buy and hold real estate investor goes, you want to obtain this asset and be into it the least amount of money possible. And then you want it to cash flow, meaning the expenses on the property after you pay those or after the tenant pays those every single month, there's money left over and that money can go in your pocket, give you more lifestyle freedom, flexibility, all of that. And then there's all the other benefits of real estate, right? With appreciation, tax benefits, it's going to be worth more money down the road, which you can do a lot of, a lot with if you decide to sell or refinance or tap into that equity, right? So I say it's so simple. And then all of a sudden you're like, yeah, we can get pretty deep pretty quick. At the end of the day though, you want to buy an asset with the least amount of money and you want to buy it smart. And then you want it to rent out for the most amount of money. Pretty, pretty black and white. So you kind of said, hey, it was just traditional. Well, first I want to back up because this is so important to point out. You say like, oh, my brother in law was thinking about selling a house, or we told him, hey, think of us, or he reached out to us, or that whole concept, to even get to that point, you have to be talking about and sharing what you're doing, which you do a good job at that. And maybe just talk about that for just a split second because you do share. I don't think. It used to always be this way, but now, like, you're sharing these rehabs, you're sharing these projects. Like, I know you as the real estate cat lady, like that's, that maybe that's your new Instagram handle. But like this because I see you like hanging out with your cats and your dogs and then I see you doing cool real estate stuff and you're sharing, you know, different things that you have going on.

[A]

That's pretty good. I like the real estate cat lady.

[B]

Yeah, you have to see if it's taken. I don't, I don't know. You might still have a shot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've definitely been trying to share more just because I'm. I've noticed so much the correlation between sharing more and then people asking questions and people being interested, people being willing to invest with me, people thinking of me when they have a house for sale. And sometimes I'm shy and I'm like, I'm not doing anything, like, too exciting and nobody cares, but I'm just trying to do like what I like to see other people doing that I think is interesting. So I've just been trying to share more and put that out there, and now it's made a big difference already.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's awesome. And I, I think it's like. To what. To what you said. So many people feel like that, oh, there's someone that's doing so much more than me or like, I don't know what to share, why would I share? Why would I want to, like, see my stuff when so and so is doing so many other things that are way better, way cooler. And it's crazy because none of that even matters. You know, there's so much power that just comes from sharing what you're doing. And it's actually even harder to reach, like, large, large audiences. It's usually the people that are closest to you that they're looking at your stuff. It's like quality versus quantity anyways, right? Something might get more views, but you sharing something, it might connect with someone who knows you really well and who wants to invest with you or share a deal with you in the future?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

So I think that's awesome. Easy one to skim over, but I've seen that time and time again even in my life. Just different opportunities come up when you're. When you're putting your goals out there and you're letting people know. This is, hey, this is what I do and this is what I like doing. And I actually like. There's a couple weeks ago where I went through this exercise and I was with a bunch of people in this room and I looked around and all of them had come from social media. Like that's where I met them all, which was so like weird to me because I don't feel like I share a ton, but then at the same time I've gone through phases and, and they got connected with me because of something that I talked about or shared at one point when it didn't feel like I was an expert or anything like that, but I just wanted to share things that were exciting to me and that resonated with the right people and your vibe attracts your tribe. And so anyhow, it was just kind of cool. I'm like, oh yeah, this stuff is powerful. So okay, so from there you said you got this property. Was there anything that was interesting about it right off the get go, were you like, like you just because it was a house and it was going to be for sale, you were interested or what made you actually pull the trigger on it?

[A]

A couple things. Like I have been interested in going out of state, but I'm like overwhelmed. So this was a good way to just be like, here's a house. And it was in our price range, it was 350, 000. So it's like a safe, nothing crazy. And then it also had, it's like 1800 square feet, but it had two spaces that we could make extra bedrooms. So it just kind of made sense where it's. It was a three bedroom, two bath and we created five bedrooms and two baths. So it had a few things that just kind of made sense. And, and it's in a neighborhood that doesn't have an hoa. I'm not worried about like getting in trouble with the neighbors or anything like that. It's like not a gated community, but it's not like too bad either. But it's just, you know, you're average Vegas community, so.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Got it. Cool. Yeah. And was the plan initially, was that the plan when you bought it to always rent by the room?

[A]

Huh? Yeah. Because if we couldn't make it work. It. Just renting it to a single family wouldn't cash flow and then doing it as a flip. We were. We weren't really getting it like low under market value, so it wouldn't really make sense to flip either. So.

[B]

Yeah, that's awesome. And. And did you. Because you mentioned it's gone really well. And like, I. I mean, I have a lot of experience that. But mostly with college students. Right. So was that kind of a risk for you or did you feel like it was a risk or what research did you do where you're like, oh, I think I can charge this much per bedroom and I think we'll be okay renting it out?

[A]

Yeah. So I had kind of accidentally fallen into renting by the room with one of our houses here in St. George. It has a casita area and then like just a house with two bedrooms. And I advertised it as the house and a casita, but I had like, overwhelming, crazy amount of interest in the casita and rented out so quickly that I said, well, the casita is rented, but I have a room in the house if you want. And so it just kind of turned into that where we rented the casita and then with the overflow people that wanted the casita and couldn't get it, we rented out the other two bedrooms in the house. It kind of fell into our lap. And then I saw how well it worked here, so I wanted to see if I could replicate it in Las Vegas.

[B]

Cool. I think that's awesome. I love how it's like, that's just adapting as things come up and it's like pivoting and realizing, oh, this is actually something that there is a demand for. Or I wonder if this could be part of my strategy. I think that's a concept of real estate that doesn't get touched on a lot is just that, like, adapting to as you go and what the market demand is so I can have all.

[A]

The great ideas, but in the end, who knows what's going to work out?

[B]

Yeah, 100%. But you felt confident enough with this to be like, okay, yeah, I feel good to buy this house, like, knowing that we're going to stay occupied.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Awesome. Yeah, that's great. So you bought it for 350, you said, and then what. What did you put into it? What was the rehab like? And then what does it rent for now? And what are some of the numbers there?

[A]

So we originally planned on putting like 20,000 into it. That turned into about, oh, probably 35,000. Just hiring contractors that we didn't know, you know, we learned a lot who to hire and who not to hire in the future. So. But we. So there's like a family room area. Originally we wanted to make that into a casita and put in another little bathroom in there, but it just did not work out with plumbing and everything like that. So we ended up just making it like a really big bedroom. And it has like a fireplace and its own entrance. And it. So someone. It's a big bedroom now, so we knew we could rent it for more than the other bedrooms, but not as much as like a studio, but. And then there's like a workshop in the backyard. And we ended up turning that into a bedroom too and put in like a mini split back there. And it's kind of. I mean, it's like that person has to come into the house to use the bathroom. But it works. Like, we added another door in the back of the home so that it was like, easier for them to get in right to the bathroom. So it wasn't like anything crazy. But. So, yeah. So we ended up spending about 35, 000 on the rehab and just made it nice, put in LVP and just kind of made it fresh and new. And then we rent the bedrooms for. Depending on the size. I did them for different amounts, but they're 775 up to like 1100 for the master.

[B]

Does that include utilities or do they split that? Or how do you set that up?

[A]

So I. That includes utilities. I put it in there. So I'd have a buffer of like 150 a person for utilities since it's Las Vegas and it's more expensive than what I'm used to. But we end up like. I think our payment is about 2, 400amonth. We all the rents, we get about 4,500amonth. So then taking out utilities. So we. We cash flow about 1500amonth on it.

[B]

Awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Cool. Yeah. I think what's so cool about this is the just you being able to like, force the deal. Right. It's like one of my favorite things to talk about and dive into because a lot of people look at real estate in general, or just like you said with this property, where it's like, I wouldn't have penciled if I would have went their traditional route and just put a family in there. And so a lot of people will, you know, look at properties and they're like, hey, this doesn't make sense. Or like, especially right now. Yeah, nothing, nothing. Good on the market or the numbers just don't pencil. No matter what, they don't pencil. I was talking to somebody yesterday and said, I love to invest here, but it just doesn't. Nothing pencils. It doesn't make sense. And it's just like, you know, maybe a lot of stuff just doesn't make sense. And that's part of it. You have to understand that it's a. It. It's not easy. Right. But at the same time, you have to know what to look for and know how to go get creative and go hustle. And that's what I've seen you guys do. Which is, which is awesome. I've seen you do a handful of times as well with creating casitas with detached garages or just in the garage and just doing the plumbing and adding it, adding the mini splits, those little things. It's crazy. You take a average deal to a really, really above average deal just because you can think outside the box.

[A]

Yeah. Makes a big difference. Just trying to figure out how it's going to work. And. And I learned that from you. Like, that's the force, the deal, you know, of like, how can I make this work? And what can I. Sometimes you got to get creative and.

[B]

Yeah, good. Well, no, I'm glad. That's good. That's what I like to hear. You're going out hustling and making it happen. And I know you're in real estate investing school too and add a ton of value there to everybody else around you. So that's been really fun. I want to touch on because you said, and I know you've done some stuff with hard money that a lot of people maybe haven't gotten into before. And then you've probably just done a lot on your own or between you and your husband. What with this one, you said it was just a conventional loan. So did you put 20% down? Did. Was that. Did you borrow any money aside from as far as for the down payment or what was kind of that process you guys dipped into your savings.

[A]

So for this one, we got a HELOC on our primary residence. We bought this home in 2020 and so we got a lot of equity in it. Luckily we bought it just right before prices went nuts. So. So yeah, we just have a home equity line of credit on this home so that we can use that here and there where we need to and.

[B]

You make it sound so easy. That's it. Just. Yeah, just. Just home equity line of credit.

[A]

And yeah, they're so great because it's like I don't have to get permission from anyone to borrow. I can pay it back whenever I want. I can withdraw it again. I love it.

[B]

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Cool. No, I'm, I'm glad that there was some sort of creativity involved in that because I tell everybody, I'm like, just go, just go open, open one up. Obviously do it the right way, but like open it up so it's there in case you ever need it, you know. Yeah, you might not need it right now. And no, don't go buy a boat or don't go, you know, buy a liability or something with it. But it's there in case you need to use it to make more money. And the, the cool thing, I think probably even if we use like your example and I don't know all the numbers and everything, but if like, probably were to break it all down, you use your HELOC as probably part of the down payment, right? Or the down payment plus the rehab. Do you know what your payment is on the HELOC on that portion, what you're paying back?

[A]

Gosh, I haven't looked at it. I like to just not think about it. So then it's like.

[B]

Just have it there and hope someone pays for it. I'm just kidding. No, the reason I ask is. So do you think it's more or less than what you cash flow off of that property?

[A]

Definitely less. Yeah. So we're still cash flowing, but at the end of the day, yeah, we're probably not cash flowing that full like 1500. It's probably more like a thousand or 800 or something, you know, but paying all of the debts and cash flowing like a healthy amount.

[B]

I love that because it's, you can like have that equity that like sits there and feels, oh, this feels safe and this feels secure. And you know, my house is almost paid off. A lot of people will say like, this is this, I'm good. I don't want to take out any money against it or whatever. But the market goes up and down and that equity you have in your house can always change. But being able to leverage that to now go get another asset. And the cool thing with that down payment, you, you're paying, you're gaining equity in the house. So when you use that to fix up the house, when you use that as your down payment on the loan, it's not like it's disappeared and now you're just paying it back. It actually paid down this debt over here and you have equity that's sitting in the house. And then on top of that, it's allowing you to cash flow. And then on top of that, it's allowing somebody else to pay that off. And so once that's paid off, then you're gonna cash flow even more. And so I just love, like, it's, it's real life Monopoly is what it is.

[A]

Yep. For sure. It totally is.

[B]

Anything on this one, Jen, where you're like, hey, I learned this big lesson going through this that, I mean, I wasn't expecting or this came up that people could get some value from.

[A]

First thing was finding our contractor. I didn't. I just asked. We. We used to live in Las Vegas, so we have some friends there. So I just asked for a ref, like a referral. So our friends referred us to a guy and I just used him. I just trusted like, hey, these are our good friends. This is going to be a good referral. And in the end, we didn't love him. It's like, I mean, I always hear this, you know, get a few bids, go through a few people. And it's. It was harder because it was farther away. So I wanted it to. I was trying to make it easier, and in the end it was harder. Like, I should have done more up front to properly vet and get like real prices up front because, you know, I ended up almost doubling by the time we were through.

[B]

That sounds about right. Thought it was going to be easier up front and end up being harder on the back end of it versus just going through it once, doing it the right way, vetting it out, and then it's a lot easier long term. I like, I like that perspective on it. Yeah, I learned that one multiple times. And I feel like you can't learn that lesson once and just like, get it figured out. You have to just learn it again and again because you always think like, oh, I can get by with only this much effort up front or whatever it may be.

[A]

For sure. Yep, I've learned it a few times, so I'll get it one of these days.

[B]

What would you say to somebody who's like, okay, I want to do what Jen's doing. I want to kind of replicate a deal like this. And whether it's being able to find something like this or fund something or force it the way that you did, either way, they're like, I want to start building that passive income and I want to go get a deal that, you know, does this type of a return. What advice would you have for that person?

[A]

Like, look the biggest thing that sticks out to me is just look for properties that have those extra little spots, like, oh, this could be a bedroom. This could be a bedroom. I used to be really hung up, too, on, like, I'm, like, I wouldn't live with a bunch of people I don't know. So why am I trying? I was trying to put myself as the renter, and then I. I had to take a step back and say, this is a great option for a lot of people out there. I'm not in a place in my life where it would. And then I started thinking. I mean, when I was in college, I lived with strangers all the time. You know, I'd move to college and be thrown in with random people and be sharing a room with a random person. I think it's just, you know, times are changing, and it's just a better option for a lot of people. And. And the other thing, too, is, like, I just started looking on, like, Facebook Marketplace looking. What are other rooms renting for? Are there other things around just to kind of get an idea of what I can rent it for? And they. They rent it out pretty easily. Just Facebook Marketplace. So.

[B]

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. I love that. Do you ever worry or, like, does. Has it came up, like, where maybe they don't get along, the other roommates, or someone stole from somebody or this or that happened, or we were using the backyard this weekend and they want to use it, or you're not cleaning up the kitchen and doing your dishes. How do you. How do you handle that? Or does that not come up?

[A]

Yeah, no, it's. I'm learning as I go, for sure, because I. In our St. George property, I haven't heard a word from anybody. It's, you know, three people in that house, and they all are just great. And then down in Las Vegas, it's like, I've got a girl that's like, the first month, someone's dog keeps pooping in the backyard, and they're not cleaning it up. And in the end, like, she was the only one that had a dog. I. I think you're missing something. Like, you're the only one that has a dog. So, you know, I kind of realized where to pick my battles. At first, I was getting a little bit too involved, I think, and then I was just kind of, like, I stepped away a little bit. And when they moved in, like, in the lease, I have in there that they're willing to share responsibilities with other people. I put, like, a little checklist on the fridge that they can fill in their names, you know, kind of like a little torture really, that they can use if they want, but just a way for them to be like, hey, this week someone does garbage. This week someone sweeps. And. And then I put in a basic stock of like cleaning supplies too for, to get them started. So.

[B]

Cool. Cool. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. We had, My sister was telling me the other day someone was like complaining that someone ate their lucky charms or something. And they're like, you can ask anybody in the house. And. But that was like the conversation that, that we had. And, and I think that's part of like as a property manager too. It's, it's being involved just enough, but not being involved so much where like they make you the middleman of everything that happens and goes on. And, and I think too, like a lot of people are turned off by the, the whole co living thing. And I think at the end of the day it's just like you got to choose your heart hard, right? And sometimes it's like, okay, yeah, there's, there's maybe more things that come up or it's more difficult to. I don't say difficult, but there's more leases to deal with. Right? Or there's, you know, different things that are going to happen. But does the good outweigh the bad? Meaning, like the money you can get out of it and charge, does it outweigh the bad? You know, and I think that for me, like, in those scenarios that I have, those homes that keep doing it, like, yeah, it, it outweighs it, you know, it's worth it. And so it's kind of just like, you don't want to do that, then don't do that. But sometimes look at it and say, hey, if it cash flows this much more and that more than covers, you know, the headache or the issues that would arise, then I'm good, I'm fine doing that. And so just something to think about. I think for a lot of people that are thinking, hey, you're crazy, Jen, for doing that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that for sure. Like, what are you going to do when they fight? What are you going to do when they don't get along? And I think it helps having like mom experience too, of when the kids are fighting. I'm kind of more of the, like, you guys figure it out, you come up with your own solution. And so that kind of transfers over to this too for just like little bickering kind of things like this. It's like, you guys, you're adults. You can figure it out. And then for more, like, if we need to come down to, like, big scenarios, you know, if someone's stealing something or something like that, we can deal with that when we get there. But so far, I haven't had any.

[B]

Of that, so that's awesome. So cool. Good for you. Well, this is a cool one just to dive into and share some. Some nuggets on, so we appreciate it. There's so much in here that people are gonna be able to learn from take and go. And if anything, it's just. It's another. Another tool added to the tool belt where you can look at it and say, hey, well, what if I were to do this with this property? Then would it pencil and what would that look like and what that return look like? And you just factor all of it in to ultimately decide if it's worth buying the property or not or what to look for and where to look for it. So thank you so much for. For sharing all that with us.

[A]

Thanks for having me. It was fun talking with you.

[B]

Absolutely. Thank you guys for joining us. We keep it short, sweet, to the point, but hopefully you got some value you can add and roll on to your next deal. But that being said, we will catch you on the next one.