209. Naval Officer’s Guide to Base Investments

Summary

Real Estate Investing School Podcast – Episode 209: Naval Officer’s Guide to Base Investments

Release Date: November 11, 2024
Host: Joe Jensen
Guest: Kelsey Ingalls, Active Duty Naval Officer

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Introduction: Kelsey Ingalls' Real Estate Journey

In this insightful episode, Joe Jensen welcomes Kelsey Ingalls, an active duty naval officer from St. George, Utah, stationed in Virginia. Kelsey shares her inspiring journey of building a robust rental portfolio strategically located in naval hotspots. Her unique position as a military officer provides her with distinct advantages and challenges in the real estate investment landscape.

Early Inspirations and First Investment

Kelsey credits her father's advice, “they're not making any more land so buy it while you can” ([01:19]), as the catalyst for her real estate endeavors. Inspired by her family's long-held cabin property, she ventured into her first investment shortly after graduating from college. Moving to San Diego, she identified a lucrative opportunity to purchase a one-bedroom, one-bath condo. Evaluating the rental prices against her military income, Kelsey realized that investing in property allowed her to allocate funds towards a mortgage rather than paying rent, setting the foundation for her strategy to buy a house at every duty station.

Navigating the First Purchase: Challenges and Solutions

Purchasing her first property remotely was a nerve-wracking experience. Without the ability to visit the property in person, Kelsey relied on virtual tours and digital communications ([02:43]). During the financing process, she encountered a significant hurdle when Navy Federal unexpectedly withdrew her loan application just after she had placed an offer. Undeterred, Kelsey quickly reached out to Rocket Mortgage, which stepped in to secure her financing at a better rate ([05:59]).

This experience taught her the importance of perseverance and flexibility in the face of setbacks. As Kelsey states, “I’m not gonna stop until I pretty much exhausted all resources” ([06:59]).

Maximizing VA Loans and Strategic Financing

VA loans are a powerful tool for military personnel, offering benefits like no down payment and no PMI. However, Kelsey initially couldn't qualify for a VA loan because she hadn’t met the minimum active duty requirements. This limitation “left her under the old policy with an overall cap” ([08:20]). By refinancing her existing loans, she plans to unlock new opportunities under the updated VA loan guidelines, which allow for uncapped borrowing based on local market conditions ([08:50]).

Kelsey emphasizes the importance of shopping around for lenders, noting that while major lenders like Rocket Mortgage and Navy Federal offer standard processes, local lenders can provide a more personalized experience tailored to her unique needs as a military officer ([24:36]).

House Hacking and Scaling the Portfolio

Kelsey’s real estate strategy revolves around house hacking—purchasing multi-bedroom properties and renting out individual rooms. For example, her four-bedroom home in Colonial Beach, Virginia, generates significant rental income, allowing her to cover mortgage payments and potentially pocket additional profits ([07:12]). This approach not only maximizes her investment returns but also provides flexibility as she relocates.

With each new duty station, Kelsey aims to acquire properties that align with military hotspots, ensuring steady demand from fellow service members. Her current portfolio includes properties in Virginia, Newport, Rhode Island, and Corpus Christi, Texas, with plans to expand further as she receives new orders ([23:30]).

Overcoming Challenges: Roommates and Realtor Missteps

Kelsey candidly discusses the challenges of house hacking, particularly dealing with incompatible roommates. “House hacking can be really hard,” she admits ([32:28]), highlighting the importance of setting clear expectations and maintaining open communication to preserve both her investment and personal well-being.

Additionally, she recounts a near-miss with a realtor mishap during the Newport property purchase, where miscommunication almost jeopardized the closing process. Through swift action and reassurances, Kelsey ensured the deal proceeded smoothly, underscoring the significance of trusting one’s instincts and maintaining control over the transaction ([34:50]).

Strategic Advice and Best Practices

Kelsey shares several guiding principles that have been instrumental in her success:

1. Specific Time Management: By meticulously scheduling real estate tasks, Kelsey ensures consistent progress despite her demanding naval duties ([38:42]).
2. Budgeting and Financial Discipline: She emphasizes the importance of maintaining a strict budget to avoid unnecessary expenditures, especially during stressful periods ([38:42]).
3. Personal Touch in Transactions: Kelsey believes that adding a personal touch, such as handwritten letters to sellers, can make a significant difference in competitive markets. This approach helped her secure properties even when offering below the highest bid ([10:29]).

Joe echoes these sentiments, highlighting the value of resilience and proactive problem-solving in real estate investing. He cites a powerful quote shared by Kelsey: “Courage is not the absence of fear, it's action in the face of fear” ([18:31]).

Leveraging Networking and Resources

Kelsey recommends utilizing resources like BiggerPockets for both novice and seasoned investors. She praises the platform for its wealth of free information and community support, making it an essential tool for anyone looking to grow their real estate portfolio ([43:45]).

Final Insights and Encouragement

In the concluding segments, Kelsey encourages listeners to believe in themselves and pursue their real estate goals with determination. Her message, “believe in yourself and just go for it” ([45:18]), serves as a motivational takeaway for aspiring investors.

Conclusion: A Roadmap for Military Real Estate Investors

Kelsey Ingalls’ journey is a testament to the strategic advantages military personnel can leverage in real estate investing. From overcoming initial financing challenges to scaling a diverse portfolio across multiple duty stations, her experiences offer valuable lessons in resilience, strategic planning, and the importance of a personalized approach. This episode provides a comprehensive roadmap for naval officers and other military members looking to build wealth through real estate investments in base-centric locations.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kelsey Ingalls ([01:19]): "They’re not making any more land so buy it while you can."
• Kelsey Ingalls ([06:59]): "I’m not gonna stop until I pretty much exhausted all resources."
• Joe Jensen ([18:31]): "Courage is not the absence of fear, it's action in the face of fear."
• Kelsey Ingalls ([45:18]): "Believe in yourself and just go for it."

For more insights and to follow Kelsey’s real estate journey, listeners can reach her via email at [e-mail] or connect on Instagram @kelsee.ingles.

Transcript

[Joe Jensen]

Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. I'm your host, Joe Jensen. Today our guest is Kelsey Ingalls. Now Kelsey is an active duty naval officer from St. George, Utah. She's stationed in Virginia right now and she's currently focused on building a rental portfolio in naval based hotspots. So I'm excited to talk to her about that. Welcome to the show, Kelsey.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Hi. Thanks Joe.

[Joe Jensen]

Well, we're excited to kind of hear your story and everything that you've been doing. So you're from Utah? St. George. That's where I live right now. How long have you been out in Virginia?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

I've been out in Virginia since early May 2020.

[Joe Jensen]

Okay, nice. How was that being on a naval base during the COVID shutdown? Craziness.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

We had as most of the world, a lot of restrictions, a little bit less than being on a ship. But it was, it was interesting times, that's for sure.

[Joe Jensen]

I could imagine. That's crazy cool. So you've been up there a few years though. Guess I guess we'll just start at the beginning then. How, how did real estate become a part of your life? Like what kind of turned you on to it? To think like this is something I should pursue and how did you get end up getting into your first property?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So my dad always told me they're not making any more land so buy it while you can. So his goal was always to try and buy properties. So he bought the property our cabins at when I was younger and we built a cabin there and it's been in the family forever. And then when I graduated college from upstate New York and was moving to San Diego for my first duty station, my goal was to try and find a property. And San Diego is a little bit of a crazy market but I was able to find a one bedroom, one bath condo in San Diego. And then from there it made sense looking at the rental prices versus like what we get as military officers that what we get as military officers normally covers your rental. We're a mortgage. So I'd rather be putting money towards a mortgage than in someone else's pocket. So that kind of spurred my plan to try and buy a house every duty station. And then hearing about the real estate investing school and trying to like learn more ins and outs, I thought that was a great opportunity to try and build my own education and knowledge.

[Joe Jensen]

That's awesome. So you saw your dad dabbling in it, you knew it was important. Then you got your first deal. Let's talk a little bit about that. Did you do that as a primary residence or what kind of. How did you find the deal? How did you tackle it? How did you decide that this was the one? You know, I know the first ones can always be kind of different.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah. So it was very nerve wracking. I was in upstate New York, that house was in San Diego, California and I was unable to fly out to see it. So I was doing everything via like Facebook, Skype, messenger, video chat and everything was going within like one to two weeks. So I tried to get all of my financing in order. I wasn't in the Navy long enough to take advantage of the VA loans, so I had to figure out other creative ways to get money, a mortgage. And Navy Federal actually dropped me right before I was supposed like after I put the offer in.

[Joe Jensen]

Oh no.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So I had like a quick emergency call to Quicken Loans now Rocket Mortgage and they like saved me. But it was about, it was in Mission valley, which was 15 minutes from everything in San Diego. So it wasn't going to be an easy drive to base. It felt like a great location and it just walking through it, my Realtor gave me good vibes that it was a good, good choice. So I just decided to pull the plug on it. Yeah. And actually it just started a trend where I'm now on my third house that I've bought and all of them have been sight unseen.

[Joe Jensen]

There you go. There you go. That's awesome. It's kind of nice like that you start off that way to just realize like, because it's already scary, your first one just because there's so many unknowns. And then you're like, it just normalized the whole process of even doing a site unseen, which is powerful. So you knew you were going to be transferring to California from New York and so you were just ahead of the game, trying to get a place lined up before you got there. And now you.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

I knew my deadline. I knew when I was moving there and how long I would be there.

[Joe Jensen]

Cool. That's awesome. And you. So let's talk about the loans because I think it's so interesting when I first was getting into this, like I just thought loans were just, they followed this certain golden rule and everybody had the same rules and everybody did the same thing. And, and, and obviously that wasn't the case. Right. Because your lender changed something last minute and then you went to a different lender. Like, do you, let's talk about that. Of like, what do you know why they dropped it and why the other one accepted or like some of the details on that, if you don't mind sharing.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

They said that I didn't have enough, like, credit history because I was just a college student, that they didn't have enough, like, backing for a property like that in San Diego to make sure, like, I could afford it, even though. Which is like, one of the things I look at now is you can look up online exactly how much money an officer is going to get in the military per month.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Based on their rate. And, like, Navy Federals in, like, Navy Federal. So, like, I was kind of shocked that they didn't know how much I would have each month to pay for it. But that was what they told me, was that I didn't have enough liquid capital just in case. And Quicken Loans was able to work with me instead.

[Joe Jensen]

So the U.S. navy, the Federal credit union, they were concerned about how much capital you had at the time, liquid capital, and your credit history, because you didn't have a ton of credit history. But then Rocket Mortgage, they looked at the same situation and they were like, yeah, we'll loan on it.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yep. And it was actually a better rate there.

[Joe Jensen]

It's crazy because that's. I think, I wonder how many people stopped right there. You know, I'm trying to get a loan. The lender said, I can't do it. I'm already scared to do this anyway. Effort, it's a sign I'm out. And then they just don't get a loan. I've had that happen to me where, you know, this lender says, absolutely not, and then this lender says, yes. And it's like, nothing changed over here. It's just the eyes of the lenders. And I just, I just bring that up to encourage people, like, to keep going, find a different lender, Find a different lender. Until one says yes. Because you could have. That could have stopped your entire journey. And maybe you wouldn't have had the momentum and who knows how long would have been before you jumped into the game. So that's cool that you just pivoted and found another lender.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah, it was a lot of late night phone calls. But ultimately, that little bit of extra work and the stress really propelled me to make sure, like, hey, I put an offer on this house. It got accepted. I need to do everything in my power to, like, make it happen.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

And I'm not gonna stop until I pretty much exhausted all resources, so that's cool.

[Joe Jensen]

So do you still own that house then, or did you end up selling it?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

I do not. We had to end up Selling it due to like relationship stuff.

[Joe Jensen]

Sure.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

But I ended up making about a hundred thousand on that house in about two and a half years. Had to split it 50, 50. But I was able to use that money to buy the house I'm currently in, which is in a four bedroom, two and a half bath house in Colonial Beach, Virginia that I'm going to be able to rent out for 2,500 to $2,800 a month and have been house hacking since I moved in.

[Joe Jensen]

You get that everybody you can have, even off half the profit of a California house. You can go from one bedroom to a four bedroom even with half of it. So I love that. So you've done it a couple times now. You said when you first got going you weren't able to use the VA loan. So the VA loans are a really amazing, awesome, powerful tool when it, it comes investing because you get special interest rates, no pmi, no down payment. I mean they're, they're God's gift to real estate investors, you know, and we appreciate your service, you guys earning that spot and it's cool to see people take advantage of it. But you said you weren't able to use it the first time, even though you were active military. Was there like a time period you have to be to get into it or how does that work?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Right. I hadn't met the minimum requirements of being active duty yet. I was about a month short of when I got the house. And if, even though I had an offer on the house, they weren't willing to let me wait for the closing time period to make that happen so now I can use them. Unfortunately I'm stuck under like the old policy, so I have like an overall cap associated unless I refinance my two loans underneath the VA program because the new one, there's no cap.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. Which is crazy. Do you know how that works with no cap? They just like just kind of ballpark every time decide if they're going to or not. Because they're not really going to let people have like $10 million in VA loans, are they?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

They have a spreadsheet based on like single family versus multi family units and they give you like up to that amount. So it could be up for a single family. Depending on the location, it could be up to like 1.5 million. Where.

[Joe Jensen]

Right. Like in Hawaii. I know there's obviously a lot more expensive out there. So they base it off of where you're buying the home and what the, the going rate for homes in that.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Area is basically and then they compare it to what you get as an officer for your housing allowance.

[Joe Jensen]

And they. So that they actually, the VA loans want to make sure that your housing allowance will cover the mortgage.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yes.

[Joe Jensen]

So that's one thing I love about lenders too, because lenders are a huge pain in the a. Like not the lenders, but the process of like getting them every document that you've ever touched in your life and your firstborn child, like, it's insane. But man, it's really cool because especially for a newbie, for a new person into it, the game of real estate is risk mitigation, right? Like, how can I not mess this up and hurt myself? And the lenders have a really powerful tools and a lot of money invested in to making sure that they're mitigating their risk. Which means if you follow whatever they tell you you have to follow, which you have to. To get their money, you're probably going to be pretty safe because they want to make sure that it's all good too. And so if you can do that, it's like it's really a protection for. So I love that they, they kind of include all that and think of those pieces and it's like just jump in and do whatever they say and you're probably going to be fine.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah, it's going to be great. There's especially on like the VA requires all the extra home inspections, so you find out a lot more about the house than you would otherwise. But also with like the current housing market, a lot of people have been turned down for using VA loans because a lot of people know what goes into them. But to that, like I would say you just have to add personal touches or try different strategies to go into that. Like my house up in Newport, I wrote a hand. Well, it was supposed to be handwritten letter but the seller was on a road trip and didn't have a mailing address. So he just did an email attachment. And he liked the personal touch and was willing to go through the VA requirements because of the personal touch. So it's like not forgetting that.

[Joe Jensen]

You know, I'm glad you mentioned that. Cause I think that's kind of like a lost art a little bit. We feel like everything, especially as real estate investors, it's all about the numbers. We can get very like businessy with it. And I think we forget like a lot of times people, this is someone's home and they want to sell it to somebody that's going to love it like they do. They have an emotional attachment to this thing. And I remember when I was buying my first place in Hawaii, I did the same thing. I did like this nice little letter and had like a picture of me and my family and like, just made it like, like, this is who we are, this is why we want this. It very real. And I. I mean, I don't know if that made the difference or not, but I got the house, so, you know, you never know. Yeah, I think that's a really cool touch to be able to have because me personally too, like, if someone's going to buy something I'm selling, if, if it's all equal, I'm gonna pick the one I think it's gonna help or that I feel, you know, some sort of emotional outreach to, like, that'd be awesome. Like I'm a single dad and it's like if I could help out someone in my boat, you know, you just feel that it's like, that's cool that you're able to, you know, have that personal touch. I think I'd encourage people to remember that for sure. Especially with the house hat stuff when you're doing primary residence, you know. Yes. That's super cool. That's great. So. So let's talk about that. So you. So you've done it a couple times and you did it in California and then you transferred to a new base and you bought one in that place or like, how did the next couple go down?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah, so I found out I was. Got orders to Virginia, started looking for houses in Virginia right before the world shut down with COVID I closed on this in March of 2020, like two days before COVID ended everything sight unseen. My cousin walked through it for me with a video camera and sent it to me. And then I actually moved here and was not allowed to live in it for the first two weeks because the military made me quarantine in an on base hotel. So I finally got all my stuff like a few months later and was able to move in. And I've had three roommates now that are also military officers and I've been renting out the rooms to them, which has been great because I don't need a full four bedroom house by myself. And then I got engaged this year and so we both got order. He's active duty military, so we both got orders up to Newport, Rhode Island. So we were like, we're gonna try and find a house up there, which we feel like we kind of missed the. Missed the ball a little bit. The winter market is a lot slower and like Cheaper in Newport. And we hit it right in, like right. Right before summer. So the prices and like everything went up a little bit. But we were able to get a house up in Newport site unseen. We tried to do a, a trip up there over the weekend to look at all the houses. By the. We looked at 13 houses. By the time we flew home, there was only three remaining.

[Joe Jensen]

Wow. Jeez. They're just going. And then you didn't even get any of the ones you saw?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

No. So this, the one we got was on like on the market. My dad actually sent it to me and was like, hey, what about this one? And I was like, sure. Like, I'll look at it. Had my realtor walk through it. She was like, yeah, I think you should put an offer in. We went to like put an offer in and the guy, we're going to put like a contingency like you like we need an answer by midnight or by tomorrow. And the realtor was like, so you could do that. But the guy selling the house went on a road trip. He's like 88 years old, doesn't have a phone, doesn't really have email. He just said that he was going to talk to us when he wanted and so he's going to my kind of guy. Yeah. I was like, okay. So we submitted the letter instead, which I wanted to include anyways. And so I submitted the letter and we were about 50, 15,000 below the highest price and he ended up picking us and we were very, very lucky.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, that's really cool. Did they, did he say why he picked you over the higher offer?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

He said that he liked the personal touch and he felt that we would take care of his house that his family, like he raised his family in because like we put in there that we were like dual mill and that we were looking forward to starting our next chapter up there in Newport, which is like all true. And he, yeah, he loved that. And then we just worked out.

[Joe Jensen]

That's super cool. I love it. You know, so, so at the beginning you're saying when you buy your first place, you're just like, I was so nervous, like I, you know, you're scared about it. It sounds like now. Does buying a home scare you anymore? Is it nerve wracking? Is it kind of the same still or do you feel more comfortable with it?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

You would think I would get more comfortable with it, but the price of the houses that I've bought have like exponentially gone up. So it's still very nerve wracking, but it's like, I know I can like figure out a way to make it happen. Like this one on our new porthouse, my VA loan didn't cover the whole down paint, like cover it all. So I had to find $50,000 for down payment. So it was kind of like a last minute scramble of trying to find the funds between my fiance and I and the stock market and the stock market going up and down. And like two weeks ago it was at this. This much, which would have completely covered it, and now it's like this slow and.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So just trying to realize which my coach Emily has like brought up is like scaling and like figuring out now might be the time to pull in investors. We're like figuring out other ways to use other people's money. Since I don't being in the military, I don't have a ton of just loose liquid cash around or capital. A lot of it I've put into properties that are sitting there or other creative ways. Like maybe I use a HELOC next time. But trying to be more creative with how I get my next house, which we just found out we're moving back to San Diego. So that house search has begun.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, those processes are a little higher than they were when you bought your first one out there significantly, which is how it goes. It's crazy, right? We're all in that ballpark. I was just talking to student just before this call and they were just talking about like how they're buying this new primary house hack and they're just like, they're just dying because it's like nothing compared to their last house that they paid half the price for, you know, and it's double the size. And I'm like, I know, me too. Um, but I love what you said, Kelsey, about how you're like, it's still, you still get nervous. Like, it's still a lot. Okay. Like, I gotta make sure I do this right. So a lot of money. It's a lot of like moving parts, you know, and there's, there's pieces you want to make sure you do it right. And I love this quote where it says, you know, courage is not the absence of fear, it's action in the face of fear. And I love that because you're like, yeah, it's still scary, but like, I do it anyway. You know what I mean? Like, that planner is it really? I love it.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

That's awesome.

[Joe Jensen]

That's so cool. And I just think it's so important. And there's this, there's this attribute that you have that I think is vital for any sort of entrepreneur investor, you know, is like, I'm going to figure it out. Like this, like belief, this faith in figuring it out. Even if you don't know how all the pieces will work, obviously there's some big parts. You're like, I got to vet this out, vet this out, vet this out. And now there's 20% of variables I can't figure out. But I'm gonna, I know I will along the way, you know. And that attribute, I think is so priceless. And I find it when I've got deals done. It's just like, I'm gonna find a way to make this work no matter what. And then you just do. Even though it's like, it can be scary on the onset. Cause you're like, there's still some question marks here. How's this gonna work out? You know?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Right.

[Joe Jensen]

But what's unique about real estate is a lot of times you have an out. If you can't figure that out, you believe you will. And most time you will. But once in a while, if you can't put all the pieces, usually you'll have an out last minute, where you may have lost some time, but you know, you're not going to like lose everything.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Right? For sure.

[Joe Jensen]

That's super cool. So now you guys are house hunting in California. To go out there, you can still take advantage of the VA or have you maxed out your VA benefits where you no longer can do the VA homes.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So I don't have anything left on my VA loans, but he has stuff left on his VA loans so we could use his. So we're looking at different options there and distance from the base that we're going to be at. And just what we're looking for, we're hoping to have like a puppies and then finding a yard in California is different. But then like, it's hard when you're like buying a house in the military because you know, you have like a set period of time, like max, like two to three years at that location. And then what are you going to do with it? Are you going to sell it? Are you going to rent it? Well, if I'm. My end goal is to rent it, then I need to look at a house that's going to be good for the rental market and that's going to. It's not. Can't be a house that I love where I'm like emotionally invested in because I'm only going to be there a short period of Time. So we're trying to look at that right now and like what kind of rental we want to get in California and decide on that. Like maybe we just suck it up and get like a one bedroom apartment because that makes the most sense rental wise for the future. So we're trying to decide that right now before we jump right into like condos or townhouse or single family homes.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, and then that's the key thing right? When you're doing this house hack style where like, hey, I'm gonna go buy this as a primary. I know I'm not going to stay there long term. Long, long term. Like I said, you got to buy it as if you're going to turn around and rent it out. And if the numbers work then, then they're for sure going to work in three years from now probably. I mean, nobody knows, but, but they should. And if you can buy your primary that way you're going to be in a way better place. Like say the person that fell in love with it because the door is pink and they buy it. But the numbers are just all whack if they ever try to leave. And that's a way safer place to be in. Because you know, sometimes if you go to sell, like the sales price is way more volatile than the rental price. And so you can be a lot safer going, hey, I know I'll be able to rent this out then. Oh, I'll just sell it when I leave. Because who knows what the sales market will look like. That's super cool. And the advice I always give everybody is if you can get the numbers to where it'll be self sufficient or cash flow a little bit. When you leave, go buy the nicest thing you can afford. Go buy the most expensive thing you can get a loan for. Like, especially if it's VA and you're putting zero down or if you're doing, you know, but even at 5% or 3 and a half percent on FHA or whatever, like go buy the nicest thing you can possibly qualify for that will still cash flow when you leave. Because who knows when you won't be able to qualify for that loan. Like I wish I had done more of that when I had this big active income from sales and was doing all these things. You know, it's like, wish I'd leverage that more. But I was like very conservative, like, oh, I'll buy it, you know, a nice little starter house and this little house, like she just bought the ball in this thing I possibly could have that would still Cash flow when I leave, because I'd rather have, you know, if you buy a million dollar home that's going to double in value over the next 10 years, you made a million bucks. You buy $100,000 home that doubles in the next 10 years, you made 100,000. It's like go for the million, especially if you're only putting 5% down, 50 grand or zero, go for the biggest thing that'll still cash flow, you know.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

So like, that's awesome. That's super. So, so you guys are thinking kind of like what's your, what's your game plan then with real estate now? You've obviously been doing a bunch of the house hacks, the Navy hot spots. It sounds like you can keep doing that for a while. That's cool that you have both of your benefits that you can cash out or take advantage of.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah, we actually have three houses right now. So he has a house in Corpus Christi, Texas. I have the house here in Virginia. And then we have the house up in Newport, Rhode Island. So our goal is we're going to get a house in every duty station.

[Joe Jensen]

Sorry, you're good.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

But like we know where the military is going to get stationed, we know how much they're going to get paid, we know what they're looking for. So we're really looking to scale and see like if we can expand on that.

[Joe Jensen]

I love it. I love it. That's super cool. So the, the VA loan thing, I think, you know, for anybody that's military that's listening, that's obviously something you should tap into. So are you using a special lender that's like the best with VAs or you still just using Rocket Mortgage? Are they the best with VAs or does it really matter? Or what advice would you give someone trying to get to use a VA loan, what kind of lender they should be looking for?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So we have applied to like the big ones, Rocket Mortgage, Navy Federal, usaa. But we found at least in Newport, like the small local lenders were way better. So I would say you, you kind of have to shop around and see like what that market's looking at. Here in Virginia it was the big name once, gave us the best rates, best options. But in San Diego it was the big name markets. So I think it really ultimately depends on like what kind of market you're in. But we've had luck with the big name Rocket Mortgage. I had Lakeside here, which was sold off from a big to Lakeside bought it from another company and then our Current one is Movement Mortgage up in Newport which is a small little local lender and their service was incredible. Like they bent over backwards to help with like military time zone differences. Me getting on being on a ship for a little bit time zone travel. So I think if you're looking for like the personal touch with the VA loan, the local lenders are the best ones. And then if you want just a standard VA process, the ones that have the most experience are like Rocket Mortgage, usaa, Navy Federal, they do it all the time, but it's not quite as personalized.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, that's cool. And something that's unique and everybody should be, should think about and this might be a play for you obviously too is what's interesting about VA loans and FHA loans. But VA loans also is they're assumable which means like if, if you go, you can actually give someone your loan. If you wanted to sell your house and they couldn't qualify for a loan, you could let them take over your loan. Actually switch it into their name. Not like a subject to Pace Morby and like kind of behind the scenes thing like literally put the loan in their name but you could do the same thing. So if you're going to go try to find a new house in California you could find someone who's VA already selling their house and as a VA loan you could assume their VA loan and because if you have the benefits then then you and you could put that loan in your name and keep their 3% interest rate instead of going to like a 7 or whatever. Which can be a really powerful tool.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

It's a huge deal. And we noticed a lot of places up in Newport were here where like that was listed on the listing like VA assumable loan. Yeah, makes a huge difference. Like the mortgage here is like a 2.1% and the mortgage up there is like 6.6. So it's a huge difference. And also like something that we can like keep in our back pocket if we ever do want to sell it. Like that's a positive.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, I think that's such a cool thing and from my understanding I could be wrong is even a non military could assume a VA loan. But the, the benefits of using up there. What am I, what phrase am I using Ron? It's your like benefits.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

You're benefits. Yeah. So their benefits would still remain in the, in the previous person's name if a non VA person buys it or they don't have the benefits. So you don't have to be VA to assume A VA loan. But it's easier if you can do the benefits so they can get, you know, fully out of it for sure. And so it's for you though, you know, you said okay. You know, your benefits are almost used up because you've got a couple houses with it. You could refinance those houses into some sort of conventional loan and then free up your VA benefits again, correct?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yes. So I could refinance both the houses and then I would fall under the new VA rules, which is the no cap. Because right now the cap is 750, 000. I'm like grandfathered under the old one because I have two loans. So I could go to the uncap, which would be great for California as an option. We're a little hesitant because like the mortgage here is such a interest rate. But then you like weigh it, like, then we don't have a down payment for a San Diego house. Um, so all things to take in consideration with the VA assumable though, just expect a little bit longer closing because normally it takes around like 60 days for those just because of all the paperwork. But it's definitely a great option to keep in, like if you can find one and they're willing to do it.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. And for anybody listening, whether on the selling side or the buying side, you know, it can be really powerful. You know, if someone's really got trying to sell something and they can just like, hey, you can assume my amazing loan. It can give them something, such an advantage, they probably get a higher sales price if they're selling the home with an assumable 2% interest or something, you know, so really, really cool, powerful tools. It's funny to me, when I was first getting into real estate investing, how much of my time and energy was going into learning about loans and lenders and debt. I was like, oh, this is like my whole job is just interviewing lenders. Like that becomes such a powerful, powerful part of the game. I mean, that's like what we've been talking about this whole time, right? But it's, it's, it really is, it's a game changer, especially for the average person. Like, say you're working in the military, you're not making a million dollar salary, you know, and it's like, but if you're able to be smart and understand how to leverage debt, especially with little money down, you can do some really, really powerful stuff to create like generational wealth even without having this crazy high income, which is really cool.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Exactly. And we're lucky because we have the benefit that we're getting stationed in places that people go to, like, seek as their vacations. Like, people want to go to San Diego, people want to go to Newport. People rent their houses in newport for like 15 grand a month in the summer. Like, it's just crazy. So if we can build up our real estate portfolio, like, we're going to set up our kids and like our future generations for success so they don't have to worry about if they're going to have money for college or that they for sure have to get a scholarship or anything like that. Like, I remember being so worried about how I was going to pay for college because, like, my parents, like, didn't have a ton of money saved for us to go to college. And, like, knowing I can make money and pay off like half my mortgage or my entire mortgage with house hacking and then have a house later where the mortgage is being paid by someone else. And like, I can just hand that off to, like, my future children. Is an amazing, just like, like retirement egg too.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. I mean, it's so cool. And it's funny because it's like, yeah, it's a headache. Yeah, there's some learning curve. Yeah, you got to like, put some skin in the game. Like, but man, compared to not. It amazes me how many people just sit on the sidelines like, oh, well, the lender needed all this paperwork or I don't know, like, I don't have to deal with roommates, like the changing toilets or, you know, the things people come up with at work. I'm like, so you just want to like, work a 9 to 5 job for the rest of your life that you don't even like and have no assets and nothing to show for it? Like, is that like, better than this headache? Because I'm not feeling that. You know what I mean? So good for you for just kind of seeing through the intimidation and like, doing it, which is super, super cool. Well, I'm excited to kind of dive into some of our final four questions, but I do want to kind of go through. Have you had any, you know, failures throughout, you know, your, your real estate career so far? Any, like, mishaps or big mistakes anybody can learn from? Or is it just kind of all worked out?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Definitely has not all worked out. House hacking can be really hard. I have a current roommate who we have very different cleanliness standards and like, amount of stuff. Standards.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So I was on a work trip and I came home and my entire, like, most of my house was like, filled with Stuff.

[Joe Jensen]

What is all this?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah, like, every cabinet, every. Every square inch of the fridge, the freezer. Like, like, every square inch. And I was so, like, I was, like, trying to remind myself, like, she's paying, like, a thousand dollars a month. Like, it'll be okay. And just like. But then, like, trying to weigh, like, is my personal sanity worth a thousand dollars a month? Is there other ways, like, I can have this conversation? And so I've had to learn how to have a lot of really uncomfortable conversations with house hacking, which I think has, like, made it better. My realtor for my Newport house almost lost the deal the day before closing. So she walked through the house, completely forgot that during the inspection, she told the other realtor that the stuff that was still there could stay there and that it was fine. And then the night before closing, she called me and said that all this stuff still in the house. I'm calling the other realtor and telling him we're not closing. Like, we're not doing this until they get everything out of the house. And, like, it's at a certain level of cleanliness, like, it's unacceptable. And left me this voicemail. And, like, I get, like, don't do that. I'm like, no, it's fine. Like, everything's fine. And she, like, I get all these emails and text messages from the other realtors from Newport's a attorney state, so from the attorney from the lender. And everyone's, like, losing their mind or, like, we don't know if it's gonna happen tomorrow. She calls me at, like, 9pm at night and is, like, crying and upset to me, and she's like, everyone just misunderstood me. Like, I don't know why everyone's mad at me. Like, I'm just trying to do my job. And I was like, are we closing tomorrow or not? And she's like, well, the real. The other realtor said that you were fine with the stuff staying there. And I was like, yeah, I am. Like, I just want to close on the house.

[Joe Jensen]

Good.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

We are good. Like, I can move some stuff out of the house. Like, I can move a dresser out. That's fine. Like. And she's like, well, fine, yes, we're clo. Like, I got an invitation that we're closing tomorrow. I was like, okay, that's all I need to hear. Have a good night. Bye.

[Joe Jensen]

That's scary.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Yeah. So there's. There's always ups and downs, like, at the end of every good story. Like, there's some hills that you had to go through to get there. But I. I should have trusted my gut instinct when, like, first met the realtor. Like, I told her my budget, and she started sending me houses that were double my budget. She. When we went up there to look, we had one weekend to go look at houses. When we got up there, all she wanted to do was show us these little cute shops and coffee shops and little things around town. And she only booked three showings, and we found the other 10 showings. So, like, I mean, part of it's on me. Like, I should have just trusted my gut, but I also was like, I don't have a ton of time. Like, she was recommended. I'm just gonna stick with her.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So, yeah, trust your gut.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. And, yeah. Don't be afraid to shop agents. You know, that's one thing is, like, at the end of the day, this is on you. It's your life. It's your portfolio, it's. It's your wealth, it's your money, it's your time. You know, and. And whether we're talking about shopping lenders or shopping, you know, agents, like, you don't want to be abusive or, like, you know, shady about it. It's not like you're looking, you know, working with two agents and telling them each are exclusive with them. You know, you never want to play those games. But. But like I said, if one's not working out, like, you can say, hey, I'm looking at this other one. If you haven't signed exclusive with them. Once you sign exclusive with them. And be aware, a lot of people don't realize, like, those. Those real estate contracts are signing. Like, I've seen some that are so gnarly. They're like, you're exclusive. Anything you buy in this state for the next year is through this broker.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Now.

[Joe Jensen]

It's like, whoa, like, how about just this one property? Maybe if you do a good job, like, read the contracts. Yeah. And then. And then, like, say. And before you sign anything. Yeah. Shop around. Make sure you. You get. Cause a good real estate agent is, like, the best thing that ever happened. You know what I mean? I have this one guy, Jason Cary on Oahu, and he is just the most professional real estate agent, like, I've ever used in my life. He's so on top of things. He was amazing, and he. He protected me on some really important deadlines that we were hitting. And he was like, hey, if you don't. Like, we were going to maybe back out, but we were still negotiating, but the seller hadn't signed off on It. So he's like, we're going to have to cancel because if you don't sign off on it, we're going to lose our earnest money. Like, he was protecting my earnest money. He was protecting my deadlines. He was so on top of every piece of it. It was just like, man, I loved working with him because I just knew, like, I'm in a safe place and I'm not going to get, like, you know, blindsided. Yeah. You know, so when you get a powerful, good real estate agent, it's. It's awesome. It's such a huge tool, you know, same with lenders. I've had lenders that just, like, bend over backwards to make it work out, and I've lend over lenders that were missing deadlines and, like, it's just a disaster too. So it's like, if you find a good one, hold on to them, you know? Yes.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Put them in the spreadsheet. That's right, Spreadsheet.

[Joe Jensen]

Exactly. So it's been so cool seeing your success, Kelsey, over the time here at the school and everything that you're doing, and I'm excited. I love Emily, your coach. She does, like, such a good job, and she was excited to have me talk with you, and I can see why, because it's really cool, the stuff you're doing. Is there any specific kind of guiding principles or habits that you feel that you've applied throughout your process of, you know, kind of growing into this world?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

So the military has definitely helped. I've had to be very organized in time management, but I found being more specific with my time management. Like, I would write on my calendar, like, it's real estate investing school. And then I would go to, like, log in and be like, well, I don't. I don't know what I want to do today. So then I started scheduling. Like, I'm going to do this podcast where I'm going to read this chapter where I'm going to look up this lender and, like, being very specific with my daily tasks towards my goals made it easier when I was, like, exhausted at the end of the day to actually make it happen. And realizing, like, sometimes you do need, like, that mental break. But if you're just tired, like, just suck it up, do the hard work. But if you're starting to feel that burnout, like, sure, take a pause from it. It doesn't need to be terrible. You don't need to add extra stress on. And then I would say the biggest thing is, like, keeping track of, like, a budget. So I try and go like every month and, like, make sure I canceled all those, like free trial subscriptions or anything else that's going in there. And I know, like, me personally, like, when I'm stressing things like the ads on Instagram or social media, like, I'm more in the mood to like impulse shop. So, like, I will put a limit on my apps where I will delete my credit card information from my phone so I can't and I'll log out of like Amazon or anything like that. So then like, you don't realize how much, like, little money adds up until you see your credit card bills at the end of the month, especially when you're under a lot of stress and you kind of need that money to help with your real estate goals or just like any goals in general. So I would say budgeting, being specific with your goals and then watching your burnout are my three big ones.

[Joe Jensen]

I love that. I love that. And just a note, I was thinking about those, the subscriptions. Right. Here's the trick. Okay, everybody, here's a life hack. Sign up for any trial you want. You can cancel it at the exact same time you sign up. So sign up and then go right in while you're thinking about it and cancel and you'll still get the seven days. It doesn't cancel until after the seven days. So if you wait till seven days, you're going to forget and then it's going to renew and you're in some who knows what contract. So the moment you sign up for the trial, go in and cancel it the next minute and you're still good to go. So little life hack.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Brilliant.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. Because if not, you're going to forget. All right, well, sweet. Well, we're going to dive into our final four questions unless there's anything else specific you want to mention about your. Your journey so far. Okay. All right, so question number one, Kelsey, what is a non real estate related bucket list item you've recently checked off or you're excited to check off next?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

I went to the NASCAR race in Chicago, so I got to go see the first NASCAR race there. My next bucket item that I'm looking to is travel to Europe. So we're going to go to Greece and just explore Europe a little bit.

[Joe Jensen]

There you go. I just started about today. There's this new 42 day cruise from Florida out through Europe and Turkey and all these places or something like that. So. And Greece is on the top. So just go get on a 40 day cruise and enjoy yourself.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

That'd be amazing.

[Joe Jensen]

All right, question number two. What book are you currently reading?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

How to Manage Rental Properties by Brandon Turner.

[Joe Jensen]

There you go. Classic. You know, everybody just read everything by Brandon Turner and David Green and all the bigger puck just read them all just as a staple.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

And then I finished Atomic Habits.

[Joe Jensen]

Great one. That's a really good one, too. I love those. Yeah, the book Atomic Habits and Compound Effect, they're kind of like the same idea, but those books are just like such a staple. Like I said, how the little things just add up over time. Even the little things of like buying a house every year, like, that's a big thing, but it's also like a little thing that. The compounding effect. If someone just did that every year for 10 years, you're set for life. Like, that's it. But. And I was told that my whole life, but I didn't do it until later. I was like, dang it. Like. And so, you know, it's like that compounding effect of just one property a year, it's like will just skyrocket your life so much more for the average person than they could imagine, you know, but it'll take 10 years and recognize.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

It, you know, but you still have 10 years. So you can start the 10 years now.

[Joe Jensen]

Exactly. That thing is like that. I love the quote that Never worry about how much time it takes to accomplish the goal. The time will pass anyway. Like, the next 10 years are going to happen. So you'll have 10 more properties or you'll have one. It's up to you, you know?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Exactly.

[Joe Jensen]

I love that. All right, so what. What content or book or podcast or YouTube channel or anything besides anything we're associated with. You know what, what would you recommend people checking out?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

The big one that I follow is obviously bigger pockets. I feel like that's really easy and understandable for someone who's just getting in all the way up to people who've been in for a decade. And you can find like, really your niche there, and it makes it really easy to digest and what information they have. Especially if you're not willing to, like, go, like, you're not quite ready to go buy a lot of products. They have a lot of stuff that's just free that you can start using. So I like. I really like them.

[Joe Jensen]

A cool hack with that. I recommend people is go back to the very first episodes you can find back when Brandon Turner didn't even understand anything about real estate. And his questions are so good because it's like he didn't know the answers, and he's legit. Like, hey, how does that work? And I remember that's what I was starting, and I was like, these questions are so good because they weren't over my head. A lot of times it's like, what are they talking about? VA loan, this. That ARVs, you know, but, man, you go to the beginning stuff, and it's like. But they ask really, really good questions to, like, explain those basics, which can be awesome. And the real estate rookie podcast is good, too, with bigger pockets, but I like to go back to the early ones and just get, like, before everybody knew what was going on. You get, like, a little more of a base foundation, I feel like.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Exactly.

[Joe Jensen]

All right, well, last. Last question, Kelsey, and we'll let you get on your way. What would your text message to the world be?

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Probably believe in yourself and just go for it.

[Joe Jensen]

I love that. That's so good. And it kind of goes back to, like, what we said at the very beginning of, like, you just knew you'd figure it out. You had that faith that you're like, I don't know how it'll all work out, but I believe in myself. And so you're going to do it. I love that. What's the best way for people to keep in touch with you? If you want people to keep in touch with you or follow your story.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

The easiest way to get a hold of me with time zones is email. My email is Kelsey A. Ingles Gmail. You can find me on Instagram elsee.ingles. it might be a little hard to add me with the whole military thing, but if you send me a message on Instagram first, I then can add you. But I am more than happy to use those two platforms.

[Joe Jensen]

Awesome. I love it. Well, this has been a treat. It's always fun to talk with students and see what they're doing and everything, so this has been good. Thanks for being on the show.

[Kelsey Ingalls]

Awesome. Thanks, Joe. Appreciate it.

[Joe Jensen]

All right, well, this is Joe Jensen signing off for the Real Estate Investing School podcast, reminding you to believe in yourself and just go for it.