213. The Reality of Tiny Home Resorts with Owner of Zip Kit Homes, Chris Jaussi

Summary

Real Estate Investing School Podcast: Episode 213 Summary

Title: The Reality of Tiny Home Resorts with Owner of Zip Kit Homes, Chris Jaussi
Release Date: November 25, 2024
Host: Brody Fossett (guest: Chris Jaussi, Owner of Zip Kit Homes)

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Introduction

In Episode 213 of the Real Estate Investing School Podcast, host Brody Fossett engages in a compelling conversation with Chris Jaussi, the owner of Zip Kit Homes. This episode delves deep into the intricacies of building and developing tiny home resorts, offering valuable insights for investors and enthusiasts interested in maximizing their real estate investments through innovative housing solutions.

Zip Kit Homes’ Mission and Background

Post-Financial Crisis Origins:
Chris Jaussi shares that Zip Kit Homes was established in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. Originally a contractor, Chris sought to address the pressing issue of affordable housing during a time when the market was turbulent.

Mission Statement:
“Our mission is to help with affordable housing, but it’s also about design,” says Chris [02:24]. Zip Kit Homes aims to create affordable housing solutions that don’t compromise on aesthetics, making them suitable for high-demand areas like ski resorts and mountain towns. By blending affordability with high-end design, Zip Kit Homes ensures that their units are both cost-effective and visually appealing.

Panelized Kits vs. Prefab/Modular Homes

Understanding Panelized Kits:
Chris explains that Zip Kit Homes specializes in panelized kits, which involve framed panels manufactured in a factory. These panels are shipped to the construction site, where Zip Kit’s crews assemble the structure swiftly.

Construction Process:
“We can get the structure up really fast,” Chris states [04:35]. The process involves erecting 12 and 16-foot wall and floor panels, followed by immediate weatherproofing, allowing the house to become 100% weather-tight within three to four days.

Prefab vs. Modular Terminology:
While often used interchangeably, Chris clarifies the distinction. “We started going with the prefab just seemed like a better word as far as positioning, making it seem a little bit more high,” he notes [06:16]. Both terms refer to off-site construction, but Zip Kit Homes prefers “prefab” to emphasize quality and modern aesthetics.

Building Codes Compliance:
“All our homes are built to the same building code as any other site-built home,” emphasizes Chris [06:29]. This adherence ensures that prefab homes are treated equivalently by banks and appraisers, debunking myths about their quality.

Designing Tiny Homes for Comfort and Flexibility

Redefining Tiny Homes:
Chris challenges the conventional notion of tiny homes as cramped and utilitarian. “We design ours so it feels like a normal house,” he explains [09:08]. Zip Kit’s tiny homes feature standard appliances, queen-size beds, and regular-sized bathrooms, providing a comfortable living experience despite the smaller footprint.

Maximizing Space:
The design philosophy focuses on efficient space utilization. Brody remarks on the impressive use of kitchen space and loafing areas during a site visit [10:55]. Chris agrees, highlighting that well-designed tiny homes can accommodate families without feeling restrictive.

Opportunities in Affordable Housing and ADUs

Affordable Housing Solutions:
Chris discusses innovative projects aimed at providing affordable housing in expensive areas. For instance, a project in Idaho offers modular units with three studios per module, priced between $1,200 and $1,500 per month [10:18]. This model not only makes housing affordable but also maximizes rental income.

Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs):
The conversation shifts to ADUs, which have gained popularity as a solution for affordable housing. Chris mentions, “In Utah, now there's the ADU law. So you can put an ADU at any house that you build” [13:19]. These units offer flexibility for homeowners to generate additional income while providing affordable living spaces.

Permitting and Grants:
Brody brings up recent legislative changes, such as Maui's grant for adding ADUs, which can cover up to $100,000 [13:56]. Chris adds that municipalities like California are streamlining the permitting process for ADUs, making it easier and faster to implement these units [13:56].

ROI of Adding Rental Units

Cost vs. Return on Investment:
The discussion highlights the financial benefits of adding rental units. Chris provides a tangible example: adding a separate entrance and kitchenette might cost around $15,000 but can generate $800 to $900 per month [18:55]. This represents a substantial return on investment, making it a smart financial decision for homeowners.

Flexibility for Long-Term and Short-Term Rentals:
Chris advocates for designing homes that can serve both long-term and short-term rental markets. “If you can do a little duplex that has a big side and a little side, then, and you can Airbnb it and you can long term rent it, then you're going to be okay” [19:00]. This dual-purpose design ensures sustained income regardless of market fluctuations.

Advice for Building Tiny Home Resorts and Rentals

Upfront Planning and Homework:
Chris emphasizes the importance of thorough upfront planning. “People need to do a lot more homework up front and have realistic expectations about what's involved” [26:36]. This includes securing the right land, zoning approvals, and building permits before commencing construction.

Tenacity and Problem-Solving:
Success in building tiny home resorts requires persistence. Chris advises, “The people that do it, there's always a way. They just have to be tenacious” [27:35]. Overcoming initial setbacks and regulatory hurdles is crucial for project completion.

Flexible Design Solutions:
Chris encourages designing projects that offer flexibility for future changes. This adaptability ensures that properties remain profitable and functional in various scenarios, whether for personal use or rental income.

Final Thoughts

Brody and Chris conclude the episode by reinforcing the value of innovative and flexible real estate investments. Zip Kit Homes provides versatile solutions that cater to both aesthetic and financial objectives, making them an ideal partner for those looking to invest in tiny home resorts or enhance their primary residences with rental units.

Chris final remarks:
“They're just not moving," referring to Zip Kit’s modular units being permanently placed [22:41]. This permanence adds to their appeal for both rental and personal use.

Brody’s appreciation:
“I appreciate working with you on multiple projects now. I just love all the pieces and how it relates to creating something you're proud to own” [30:15].

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Notable Quotes

• Chris Jaussi [02:24]: “Our mission is to help with affordable housing, but it’s also about design.”
• Chris Jaussi [04:35]: “We can get the structure up really fast.”
• Chris Jaussi [06:29]: “All our homes are built to the same building code as any other site-built home.”
• Chris Jaussi [09:08]: “We design ours so it feels like a normal house.”
• Chris Jaussi [10:18]: “They’re going to kill it... when it’s designed well and it’s modern and it’s cool.”
• Chris Jaussi [13:19]: “In Utah, now there's the ADU law. So you can put an ADU at any house that you build.”
• Chris Jaussi [18:55]: “If you spend 15,000 and make eight or nine a month... that’s pretty good.”
• Chris Jaussi [26:36]: “People need to do a lot more homework up front and have realistic expectations.”

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Conclusion

Episode 213 offers a comprehensive exploration of the realities and opportunities within the tiny home resort market. Chris Jaussi’s expertise provides listeners with actionable insights into designing flexible, affordable, and aesthetically pleasing housing solutions that cater to both short-term and long-term rental markets. Whether you're an investor, homeowner, or enthusiast, this episode equips you with the knowledge to navigate and succeed in the evolving landscape of real estate investing.

Transcript

[A]

My generation, we just bought a house. We bought the biggest house we could buy and we didn't really worry about renting and things like that. But that's just not smart anymore. I mean you should be thinking about how can I do a rental, how can I rent out the basement, how could I rent out both sides of this and look at every different option.

[B]

What's up guys? Welcome back to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. Thanks for joining us today. This is your host Brody Fossett and today I'm taking over for OR Joe. Have an awesome episode for you that actually recorded as part of our tiny homes Huge returns. This master class course thing that we put together for people that want to build tiny home resorts and develop tiny home resorts. But we took this interview with one of the owners and I thought it would be good to put on here just because we started diving into a lot of stuff that's not just tiny home related in general, but different ways such as like how to maximize your primary residence a lot with long term rentals as well as running by the room, different ways to structure and basically set up a house and design a house to maximize your roi. So a lot of stuff that like I said, not just related to tiny homes. And so I wanted to put it on here so that you could learn from it, get access to it. And this is the owner of Zip Kit Homes. And excited for you guys to listen to the interview. Let's dive in. So obviously this is from the angle of, you know, people that want to essentially build a tiny home experience type resort, whether that's like one unit and it's you know, crazy cool unit, they they rent out as a short term rental or it's an actual resort with multiple units and different experiences. One thing that I've valued with working with you is you've just let me be a little bit creative in that process and back and forth. Obviously I love your stuff and the, how modern and, and cool looking it is. But then it's also been fun to kind of tweak certain things as we've gone about it. But maybe just overall give us, give us kind of like what's your mission as a company? And for people that don't know, we'll link everything. But people that don't know what's. What do you guys do?

[A]

Yeah, so it's funny. So when we started Zip Kit Homes it was after, after 2008, that big financial crisis. And so we were trying to, you know, find anything we could do to keep building. I was A contractor before that. And so originally the mission was affordable housing. So we're like, I mean, I'm sure you know that you can go basically, I think you go anywhere in the country and there's a shortage of affordable housing to buy and to rent. And so. So, you know, that was originally our mission. Where we kind of ended up is we still do a lot of affordable housing, but it's affordable housing for really expensive areas. So. And maybe that's just because the way we design things. So we design things so they're a little bit more high end looking. And so we've done a lot of projects in like ski resorts and mountain towns and things like that because we can build something that's still somewhat affordable, but yet it looks like super cool. So like, if you're going to go to, I don't know, Sun Valley, Idaho or something like that, they're not going to accept your standard double wide or just a boring apartment. They just, I mean, they want to keep their town looking a certain way. So. So, you know, our mission is, you know, it's to help with affordable housing, but it's also, it's about design. Like we never want to get to where we're just building super boring units. I think we can kind of, we can kind of mold the two together. So it's still somewhat affordable, but it's still super cool as far as design aspects and things like that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And what's, what's interesting too is you have everything from, you know, like large, larger homes that are, you know, I think you call them the panel kits. Is that what it is? Or panelized homes?

[A]

Yes, we have the panelized kits up to like 3,000 square feet. That's a big house and then, you know, the smallest house.

[B]

So people understand on the. When you say panelized, it's, it's, it's not prefab, where you finish the whole thing and ship it like that. And it's not shipped in like, like segments, but it's more so like you'll put the windows in, you do the, the siding a lot of times or what's the.

[A]

No, it's just. So it's just framed panels. And so what we do is we have our crews go out and put it up. But if you need to get a house, you need to get the structure up really fast, then we can go do that. So we'll panelize it in our factory. So it's just like 12 and 16 foot wall panels, floor panels, roof panels, we'll put it on a truck, we'll ship it to where it's going, and then, you know what we say is we can get it weather tight super fast. So when we get there, we send our crew, we set everything, we put the ice and water shield on the roof, we tie back all the walls, we put in the windows and the doors. So we might be there like three or four days, but when we leave, that house is 100% weather tight. And then. But, but that's kind of where we stop. And we used to do interior finish kits, but it was just a logistical nightmare. So we don't do that anymore. So. So anyway, then the, you know, I think that the panel kits are actually a really good option for owner builders, I think because yeah, if you're building, I mean the things that probably scare you. Also with the panel kits, we help people get their. Help them. Like we give them the set of plans, we do all the structural engineering. We gave them basically the full packet that they need to submit to the building department and then we give them, you know, checklists and work orders that they should use with the sub. So we give them a lot of information to help them build their house and then we get the structure up and then they let them take it from there. So for an owner builder, I think the panel kits are a really good option.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Cool. So. And they're, they're awesome looking. You're probably sitting in one right now. I'm sure that's where you're right. Your office setup is. And then, and then you have the, the prefab, I guess. Do you call them prefab or modular or. Or both. What's, what's kind of the smaller units?

[A]

I mean, it's more modular. So the name initially like 15 years ago when we started this, like modular, sometimes people assume is like a manufactured house. So it kind of gets a bad rap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not, it's very different. Like modular. Like we've done million dollar modular homes. So there's some really high end modular. So anyway, we started going with the, with prefab just seemed like a better word as far as positioning, making it seem a little bit more high. So really they're the same thing. It's modular or prefab. But then those were building them in a complete modular unit in our factory. But they're built to the same building code as any other site built home. That's a big thing that people don't understand sometimes is like what are the Building codes. And if we go modular, it's built to the same code a million dollar houses are built to. And when it's when banks and appraisers look at the house, what they're really looking at is what building codes are built to. And if it's built to the IRC code and they really don't care if it was built off site or on site, it's built to that building code that every other house is built to. And I still run into that from banks sometimes. Like they'll see zip kit homes, they'll be like, oh, we can't do that because it's a manufactured home. I'll go, no, it's not a manufactured home. It's a normal site built home. We're just building parts of it in our factory.

[B]

So anyway, yeah, yeah, I think that's an important distinction to make as well. People assume it's like not as good of quality because it wasn't or the other thing too. I know you'll build them on chassis if you, if people request that. But it's actually like for example, like project and Brian edited with you, they don't allow that the town. You can't have a tiny home on wheels. It has to be on a permanent foundation. So anyhow, like we poured the foundations, the slabs and they're, they're on there permanent.

[A]

So yeah, yeah, they're not moving.

[B]

So yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. So with that, I mean a lot of people that are, that are listening, learning obviously want to, you know, build a cool experience for people to come and stay and pay the most amount of money for and keep it as occupied as possible is is the goal. Obviously with that being said, like what's kind of cool about your product specifically would you say that's maybe different from a lot of other in general, just tiny homes.

[A]

I mean tiny homes kind of got a weird name because like a tiny home, some people were like, they buy a little utility trailer and they put a little teeny house on it and they caught that's a tiny home. But they're like 150 square feet and it's like a little teeny loft where. And anyway I've toward some of those little tiny homes and those are like, those are a very niche market and not everybody wants to stay in those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we, we try to design ours. So it's a tiny home, you know, in a sense, but it feels like a normal house. So you know, there's little things like it's normal appliances, queen size bed, you know, there's a normal bath, you know, normal shower, normal toilet. Everything's normal. So it's not like you're, it's not like you're in a camper or a little teeny house. Like you're a normal house with normal size furniture, normal appliances. It's just a little bit smaller. And so, you know, I think people, I think people, when they, when they stay there, they go, oh man, this is like, I could live here. Like, I get a lot of that where It's a little 400 square foot home, but people walk in, they're like, oh, wow, this is actually bigger than I thought. I could actually live in this and be comfortable. So I think people, yeah, and a lot of times it's about, it's about, you know, how many people can stay there. And if you can just create like an area that's like comfortable, where people can hang out and a family can hang out, but they don't need like a huge space, then, you know, I think that works pretty well. I guess with the Airbnb and the whole short term rentals, it's about the experience too. So anything that's a little bit more unique than the next one sometimes does better, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's been cool just seeing, I mean, I've seen a ton of your different designs now and we've even came up with some different designs. And it's cool, just the use of space in, you know, the being able to utilize the loft or like the. When we, we went and toured your place on our tiny tour a few weeks ago and one of the homes you had up there, just the use of the kitchen space and how you're, you know, maximizing that. I think it's so cool with exactly what you said. It's tiny, but like does not feel, quote unquote, tiny.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean the other thing, like, you know, maybe not just short term rentals, but there's, I think there's some big opportunities out there. There's a lot of places where people just like, maybe it's a single person, but they can't afford to live. And so, you know, just as an example, we're working on a project that's up in Idaho where, you know, a standard little two bedroom apartment, say 3,000amonth, but nobody can afford 3,000. You know, the working class can't afford 3,000amonth, so they have to team up with a bunch of roommates. But people don't want to live with roommates. And so it's A project where we've got like a modular unit that's like. It's a modular unit that's got three little studios in a single module. And so they're going to try to rent those for like 1200amonth or 1500amonth. Well, I mean, they'll rent those all day long. Because if you go into, you know, this area in Idaho and say, what's, you know, I can afford 1,200 bucks a month, there's like nothing available. And so if something's only 300 square feet, but it's brand new, it's modern, it has a nice kitchen, a nice bathroom, a nice little teeny bedroom, a nice little living area, and it's 1200amonth. I mean, they're going to, they're going to kill it. And then if they've got, you know, that module has three of them, they're making 3,600 bucks a month off one module. And they're providing affordable housing which, you know, just isn't available. So even here, where we live in Cedar City, I mean, that number might be 900amonth. Where, you know, if you just got married in Cedar City, you can afford 900amonth. You don't have, you know, you have very few options. And I think people are just fine with living, you know, with newlyweds, newly married, young people, I think they're just fine living in a smaller space. If it's like designed well and it's modern and it's cool. Like in the past, if you didn't have any money, maybe you have to live in like a basement that's got mold in it and you can hear the people above you and it's just like, you know, maybe it's a little more square footage, but it sucks. And so I think there's a really big opportunity out there for the longer term rentals, but do something small, cool and affordable. And then the other thing about that is I think the cities, the, the municipalities are becoming a lot more open to that because they know that this issue exists. They have kids that can't find places to rent. They know that affordable housing is like a huge issue. So you can almost come in. Not like an enemy, but you're almost like a savior coming in, going like, hey, you know, this is what we're going to do. We're going to provide housing for you guys and it's going to be affordable. So that's a big opportunity right now.

[B]

Yeah, it's huge. Which they just passed this in Maui, which is we probably need to jam on this actually, you and I. But anyone that builds or ads on their property, like a mother in law studio, they come ohana's here. Or like a casita is probably a more familiar term for most people. But there's a hundred thousand dollar grant available for anyone who does that because of the housing in general. Yeah, yeah. So. So I was actually talking to.

[A]

Because that's another thing is sometimes with like I know in California right now that if you're going to do a little ADU like that, you know California they say it can take, I don't know, a year or two to get a building permit. But if you're going to do an ADU like fast tracking, they'll give you a permit like in a couple weeks. And so that's too. If you permits quick.

[B]

Yeah and that was actually my, that was funny because as soon as I heard about that was my first question was like all right, are they going to speed up the, the perm? You know, I've been waiting on a pool permit for nine, nine months now. Eight or nine months and still haven't got that just to, just to do a pool let alone right when it was, it was two weeks in Utah. I think it was less than that when I did. I think it might have been like a couple day turnaround when I build a pool in Utah. So little things like that that I'm like all right, is that gonna come with that? But a lot of times I think it almost has to right with, with what's happening, um, or here specifically with you know, all the fire stuff that people do need a house sooner than later and that's. I, I think it's a cool opportunity for a product like yours. Right. Where somebody might look at it. Well, it's going to cost me this much money and, and maybe, you know, I know you've done stuff in Hawaii, but that's a little bit different. It could be anywhere really. But hey, this might be less money to go this route. I don't have to wait for it to get built. I don't have to wait for all these other things. It can come here, plug and play, be good to go and I can start making money day one.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's cool, that's cool. So anyway, the municipalities. Yeah. Like, like Maui, California, like they're becoming much more open to that. I mean another thing I'll throw out there that isn't you know, really our thing. But you know, I think it's a big opportunity at least in Utah, now there's the ADU law. So you can put a, an ADU at any house that you build. Basically you make it a duplex. And there's some rules like it can't look like duplex has to look like a normal house and things like that. But basically you can build a house and have maybe 400, 600, 800 square foot rental on the side and then you can rent that out. And why I think that's such a huge opportunity. Both of my kids, that's how they're getting houses, that's how they've been able to get houses is because if their payments like 3,000amonth, like they can't afford 3,000amonth, but if they can rent the one side for 14, 1500amonth, then it's all of a sudden affordable and they can get a house. So I like, I look at that, I'm like, man, more young people should be jumping on that bandwagon. And if you're in an Airbnb area, even better. Like think if you had, I don't know, like a 1600 square foot, three bedroom, two bath and then a little two bedroom and you could Airbnb and you could stay in the small and rent the big one. You could stay in the big one, rent the small one. You could rent them both. It just leaves, I mean there's a lot of opportunities. I, I think you always get the news of that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think that that's, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a no brainer. I think like you should be, even if you don't want to rent it out, like I still think you should put that in your home if you're building or designing something. Because you never know, at some point you might need to. What would you say just from, from you know, being a contractor, a small kind of kitchenette? What would you say kind of the cost of adding that versus not adding that. Say there's plumbing close by, maybe it's on the back side of a bathroom, but it's either going to be this, this fourth bedroom, you know, on the main level, or it could be. And there's a, let's say there's a bathroom in it, you know, already, or you add a kitchenette in a separate entrance.

[A]

I mean, yeah, you could probably, I mean it could, it depends. But let's say what, 25,000. But like I look like I'm a prime person that are, you know, my youngest daughter just graduated from high school. We have like a 3,500 square foot home and I don't have any rentals in it or anything. So now my wife and I are sitting there going, why do we build a 3,500 square foot home? Six bedrooms, nothing to rent. Like that didn't make any sense. Like if I could go back five years, I would have been like, okay, I'm going to just set this side up so I can rent the whole area above the garage or whatever. But anyway, living.

[B]

Yeah, I guess, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So. So when you say I guess it's probably a hard question to answer if it's adding it after the fact or I mean, not the, not the room, not adding the square footage, not adding the bathroom. Let's say you already have all of that, but you're just taking this four bed, four bath house or whatever and instead it's gonna, you're making that fourth bedroom and bathroom. All you're doing is adding an exterior entrance and then putting a kitchenette in. You think, you think it would cost that much more, 25 grand to, to add a, a small kitchenette?

[A]

I mean, let me just. No, I mean, let me think of my house. Like with my house, I'm just thinking the biggest thing would be a separate entrance. You know, that might cost me five grand and then a little kitchenette, maybe another five grand. So yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe 15,000. I could probably set it up and be making, you know, 800, 900amonth. And so when you look at the ROI on that, that's pretty good, right? If you spend 15,000 and make eight or 900amonth. So.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's, it's almost 100 return right there. No.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

I just want to, Yeah, I just want to touch on that. That just because I think it just, it's important. I like how you broke that down and brought that up because yeah, I love all those pieces to it. And I think it's important from just any standpoint as an investor you're looking, how can I leverage this? And even, even it's nice. We, we always talk about, okay, what's your exit strategy or what's your backup plan? And I think anytime you can have something that makes sense to be able to rent out long term, even if you're buying initially as a short term rental, like that's where you're going to be good. And people get into trouble is when it only pencils as a short term and they bank on it only being able to, to be rented out nightly. And then all of a sudden something happens or changes or outside of their control and they can't even cover the mortgage because it only works for short term.

[A]

Yeah, that's what like in today's world, I would think, like people should try to come up with designs on projects that they're doing that are super flexible because we never know what's going to happen tomorrow. Right. And so like I said, I mean, if you can do a little duplex that has a big side and a little side, then, and you can Airbnb it and you can long term rent it, then you're going to be okay. And then even when you go to sell it, if you can show people, you know, I'm sure when my son goes to try to sell his house and you can show people like, hey, my net was only 1500amonth because you got this rental, it's going to be a lot easier to sell than the one next door where people are running the numbers. They're like, crap, that's going to cost us 2, 800amonth or 3200amonth. And so, and so, I mean that's, that's what you know, we're trying to get more into is, is I think projects should just be as flexible as possible. And you know, if they can just barely cash flow, long term rentals, then you're okay. And then if you can do short term and you can make a lot more money, awesome. Know if you can, but try to.

[B]

And there's a lot areas.

[A]

Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

There's a lot of areas too where you know, it's, they're really strict on their short term, but if you owner occupy it, then they allow it and so that opens up the doors. Or if you have a really cool, nice, nice looking house or unit and you're living in and your Airbnb and the one piece of it, it gives you access to a market that a lot of people don't have access to because you're willing to live there.

[A]

Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah. I just think, I just think our attitudes have to change. Where, you know, my generation, we just bought a house and we bought the biggest house we could buy and we didn't really worry about renting and things like that. But that's just not smart anymore. If you're, if you're just starting out just to go try to get the biggest house you can. I mean, you should be thinking about, how can I do a rental, how can I rent out the basement, how could I rent out both sides of this? And you know, you should Be thinking of every different strategy. How can I put something in the back in the future, you know, look at every different option. As far as that, I think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I thought the way you were going or the direction you were going to go when you started talking about an ADU was like a detached adu, because I know that's something that is also allowed a lot of people's homes. They don't. They don't even realize it. I know the last time I looked at, like, specifically in cedar, it was if it was zoned R2, you could have a thousand square foot. Had to be less than a thousand square feet. Couldn't be over a thousand square feet, but it could be a detached cita. And I think that especially with what you offer is huge, you know, like, if someone, like. Because you can rent out, once again, Airbnb or long term, whatever it is, but you're going to get a great return on buying a unit like that from you having the hookups for it and getting it craned in or whatever, right?

[A]

Oh, for sure. Because you already own the land, so you're just buying the unit. And then I think people will pay more for something that's detached. Like, I mean, what if they have pets? Or, like, people don't want to live in apartments. And so if the apartments are renting for a thousand. Yeah, they rent that for 1200. Just because it's kind of private. It's its own thing. So, yeah, bringing in little ADUs and put them in your backyard, I think is a really good idea. I think there's a. Yeah, and I think, like I said, the zoning is, like, opening up to that quite a bit more. So as that opens up, I think there's hidden opportunities everywhere. And. And we offer a couple of different ways, like doing that. Sometimes modulars are tough because if it's already in a neighborhood, I mean, you have to crane that thing, like, clear over the top of a house. And there's power lines and trees. So sometimes modulars don't work, but you can go modular. You can do the RVIA unit. So it's on a chassis. So basically it's anywhere you can get. Get a, A camper, you could get one of our houses, or you can even buy a little panelized kit. And if you're a handy guy, you can own or build or the little panelized kit in the backyard. So anyway, there's a lot of different options that, you know, we offer that could help people, you know, get something in their backyard. If they're just starting out.

[B]

Yeah. That's so cool. That's. That's my. That's. That's my. My. On my vision board to owner builder a cabin one summer, just so I'll hit you up and we'll order the kit so it can make my process go a lot faster, and I could just spend the summer in the mountain, working on it, building it out.

[A]

So, Rody, I'll tell you what that's like is, do you ever buy any furniture from IKEA that you put together?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

By the time you're done with that, you're like, I hate this stupid dresser. I should have just bought one of those bills. So imagine that.

[B]

First little bit. Yeah, yeah. No, actually, that's the sad thing is I. I thrive off of, like, putting together IKEA or doing stuff like that.

[A]

So it's fun for me and putting together a kit. If we give you the right information, It's. It's not that complicated. In fact, what I've seen, like, a lot of people seen the video that Trent Palmer, he's a pilot over in Reno, that he built one of our houses and he put a video up. He got like 4 million views. I mean, we sold a ton of houses off that one video. But. But, like, he and his wife, they actually probably did it better than general contractors, because sometimes I see general contractors, they have like 20 different jobs going on at once, so they just don't put the. The time into it because they're busy. It's just a job. But sometimes to the owner, builders, it's like, personal, so that they'll put. They're willing to work hard. So I always tell people, I mean, if you're willing to really work hard and hustle and a lot of it just managing, it's just calling the right subs. And, you know, we give you kind of the. The information you need to interact with the subs and the checklists and things like that. I mean, anyone can do it if they're willing to work hard. And they go in with their eyes open, like, this is not going to be an easy four months. This is going to be, like, really hard. But in the end, I think they actually can do a lot better than general contractors sometimes because they care so much.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I. I agree. That's a good point. Well, kind of like wrapping this thing up. But is there anything that I know you've dealt a ton with, you know, putting these in a lot of areas where people are renting them out, as you know, More or less vacation rentals? I just did. When we were up there, you just finished 20 units that are all going to the same spot, same exact type of unit. Is there anything or any advice that you have, like, for somebody that's wanting to do something like that, where you're like, I've seen these units work out really, really well. These ones, they. They cost a little bit more, but seems like the guests rave over this or they like this. I don't know if that's too. Too vague or broad of a question, but is there any. Any little pieces like that where you're like, hey, make sure to do this, or. I would think about this.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, probably, you know, initially, there's a. There's a lot more homework up front than people realize. And so, you know, that comes to buying the right piece of land, checking with the city to see if you can get it zoned, you know, figuring out if it's even going to pencil. And then you got to get all the horizontal infrastructure, meaning sewer, water, power, and then you got to get the foundations in, and then we can build the houses and drop them on there, and people can move in. So I think where people have kind of underestimated is. Is the initial part where, you know, they think that, like, all the time, they're like, oh, I hear people all the time. They're like, yeah, we're going to be ready for your houses by June. And then in my mind, I'm like, yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be October at best, because they're just thinking. They're just going to talk to the city and they're just going to let them zone. Everything's good, and they're going to just. The contractor is going to show up and put the footings in. Exactly. When he says he's going to know that's just not real. So I said, you know, I. I think.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

People need to do a lot more homework up front and kind of have realistic expectations about what's involved in the beginning, and they can pull it off. And I see a lot of people that. That don't pull it off because they're not. I don't know what the right word is. They're not tenacious enough, if that's the right word. Meaning anytime you do one of these projects, you're going to get told no 20 different times. You're going to go into a meeting and the fire guy's going to say, that'll never work because a fire truck can't Turn around. Then you're going to another meeting. They're gonna say, oh, your sewer line's too far away. And you're gonna. And, and so people, you know, by the fifth time, they're just like, oh, it's not gonna work. And they just give up. And so. But the people that do it, there's. There's always a way. So I see people, and like I said, they just got to be just tenacious. They just won't take no for an answer. They just keep going and going and going, and if they're told no, they go a different route. Those people, they pull it off and they seem to do it really well. But that's like a huge skill set that, like, people, People don't. People sometimes think it's going to be easy, and it just isn't. It's just not right. It's not easy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's. That's like the. That's obvious advice. That's not obvious. You know, I. I think people just over. Overestimate that all the time when reality is. It's.

[A]

It.

[B]

Look, if it was that easy, everybody would do it. And that's. It's just not the case. And you have to be. I like the word. Tenacious. You know, it's like. And that's just. With most things in life, you know, you got to get after it and. And see it through. Almost viewed as a competition of like, hey, it's not. It's not a no. No means no. It's a no but why? Or no, but how? Okay, what about this? What about this? It's same with lending. The same, you know, I. With lenders on any project you're going to do. Oh, you can't do this. Okay. Why not? Okay, well, what about this? Okay, what about this? What about, you know, you just ask and then eventually you find like, well, yeah, I guess you can do that. And then that's how you get in and get it done. But Chris has been. Yeah. Super good. You just. It's. It's good hearing you talk about it. Like I said, I've appreciated, you know, working with you on multiple projects now. And just the process of all of it's been good and fun. I just, I love the stuff, and I think that it relates perfectly into people ultimately finding, like, the best. The best investment, the best experience, like basically creating this. This something they're proud to own and proud to be a part of, as well as something that can also make an impact in their life and be lucrative for them as an investment, you bet.

[A]

No. Thanks for doing the interview. I appreciate it and look forward to working with you in the future.