← Real Estate Investing School Podcast
Real Estate Investing School Podcast
219. Maximizing Profits in Single Family Home Investing
00:58:12
Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School Podcast! In today's episode, we dive deep into the fascinating journey of Adam, a real estate entrepreneur who has faced both triumphs and challenges throughout his career. From renting out his house to...
Loading summary
Transcript97 lines
- [00:00]
Joe Jensen
Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. I'm your host, Joe Jensen. Our guest today is Adam Zock. Adam has a magnificent obsession with learning and is addicted to personal growth. In his own words, he's a family man with a business, not a businessman with a family. Don't be confused there. He retired from the civil engineering profession at age 32 through real estate investing. He currently holds 50 single family rentals in 13 different states along with various alternative investments. His main passion is helping working dads with young kids achieve time freedom through real estate Investing. At age 35, Adam lives in North Dakota with his amazing wife, three young kids, a five year old, three year old and a one year old. He's definitely got his hands full and I think you're going to get some amazing tricks of the trade from our discussion day. I'm stoked to have you on. Welcome to the show, Adam.
- [01:00]
Adam Zock
Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, I like, I like to call it, for us with the young kids, we call it in, in the, in the thick of it, but I love.
- [01:05]
Joe Jensen
It in the thicket. I'm going to say, man. So I'm, I'm 38, so just a couple years older than you and I've got a six and a four year old. So when I was reading your bio, I'm like, I'm a young dad who wants that time freedom. And that's, and that was actually a big motivator for me too, was I was like, how am I going to raise these kids and work the way I've been working, running these big sales teams and traveling over the country and I just couldn't make it swing the way I wanted to. And that was a big push for me getting into real estate. So that's interesting. You had a, kind of a, sounds like a similar motivation.
- [01:39]
Adam Zock
Yeah. There's the famous cliche of how do kids spell love? And it's T, I, M, E. Right.
- [01:46]
Joe Jensen
I love that. I love that. Well, you sound like you're probably as good as dad. You are an investor. I want to hear about that. But so let's just back up to the very beginning. I'm always interested in the origin story. Like how did you first get interested in real estate? What turned you on to it and, and what made you decide to like go real hard?
- [02:05]
Adam Zock
I, I think it was the marshmallow test of delayed gratification. Can I, can I not eat this marshmallow right in front of me in the next 30 seconds and can I wait five minutes a year, whatever it is? And have and have two. I'm even trying to instill that in my kids. Just this concept of delayed gratification. And so the idea was, if you invest yourself in college, then you get a good job. And if you get a good job, you then make more money. If you make more money, you can save for retirement. If you save for retirement, you eventually get there. And I was like, cool, I'm going to do this hard, and I'm going to do this the right way. And it worked all the way until it said, save for retirement and then you'll be able to retire. And I was like, ooh, that's delayed gratification. This one extra marshmallow for 40 years of my life. Something doesn't work. Everything else up to that. If I invest in my health, I, I see some rewards. If I invest well, now with my kids, I can see some rewards. But there was some sort of disproportionate risk to reward with this delayed gratification. That kind of broke my brain that I was like, hey, like, this is, this isn't worth it. Like, I'm, I'm, I, I want, I want this now. And is there anything I can do that shrinks this timeline? And so it was, it was the, the engineer who, you know, started making some income. But I think I was one of those that got, that just tipped over. I was analysis by paralysis. But I just, I just figured out what's the one thing I can do that moves the needle. And that happened to be listing our home for rent. That, that was just, what's the micro thing that gets you into the next deal? And I know Brandon Turner talks about this famous scene where it's like, vacuum the truck. Like, I can't sell a truck, but I know how to vacuum the truck. And if I can vacuum the truck, I know how to get insurance on the truck. If I know how to get insurance on the truck, then I can do this. For us, it was, okay, worst case scenario, I list my home for rent on a price that I want, and if someone takes it, I have my first rental property. And if someone doesn't, I have nothing to lose. I'll list it for sale, and I'll just do the typical house hopping and spend more. Sell, spend, save, spend. And I would just have one property. So I was like, so you had.
- [04:16]
Joe Jensen
A, you had a primary residence that you were, you were moving out of. And like, what do we do with this house? Do I sell it or do I rent it? You're like, let's just Try posting it for rent and see what happens.
- [04:27]
Adam Zock
And, and the, and the, and the instant feedback I'll get is like, well, I don't want people coming into my house, and I don't want to. And I, you know, do I really want to do this? And if you're married, you got to get your wife on board and, you know, kids. And so there's some micro hacks within that of list it for a price that's so egregious. Even if you don't want to rent your house, let's say you have a $250,000 house, list it for rent for $3,000 a month. Like beyond the 1% rule, your mortgage, hopefully, if you're, if you're listening to this, you know, maybe got a 4%, 5% interest rate, like you're going to cash flow. And if nobody reaches out to you, you spent 15 minutes creating a Zillow or a Facebook marketplace just using your, Your, your previous listing, made a rental, posted it, and it took you 15 minutes. If no one responds to you and says, hey, I'm not interested, that, that return on investment was super low. However, if someone says, hey, I want to rent it, you don't just go, oh, sure, come on over. Let's. Let's just come walk into my house right now. No, you pre screen them and you say, hey, by the way, do you make at least $9,000 a month? Like, hey, if they say no, oh great, you just. And you could even pre build this. You could have what I call like a pre screen list. Like, oh, cool, you're interested. Fill out these four questions. Why do you want to move? How much do you make? Are you generally familiar with like, renting? What? And then like, there's, there's a couple basic questions that you make them fill it out, and that'll already stop 70% of them. And so if you're worried about, like, too many people coming, then if you're like, I've gotten four people that are like, hey, I make this. I understand. I want to do this here. The timeline works for me. What. When can I come see it? Cool. Then I'll set up four renters all on a Saturday for an hour, and they all come through at the same time. And now I've really shrunk my return on time invested into this thing. Plus, if you get a bunch of people all coming at the same time, you get four families all come in and see the house at the same time. There's just that natural, like, hey, this is Going to work. And so that was the strategy that we used. And I did that two different times. We did that with two different private residents because I did it with the first one moved and then we were going to move cities did the exact same thing. Just listed it for rent at a price that was like, hey, make me move type thing.
- [06:35]
Joe Jensen
Adam, this is like a masterclass on, like, landlording for yourself. Like, I love that. I do the exact same thing with those exact same strategies. I'm like, like, yeah, have the. I use a Google forms. If anybody's ever used Google forms. It's so easy. I just fill out those questions that you said. And anybody on Facebook's like, is this available? Is this available? Is this available? You know, you get all this noise that you don't want to spend all day answering questions. Boom. Just send that link, have them fill out the questions if they're worthwhile. And I love the key where you're like, hey, I'm gonna have them all come on the same day at the same time. 1. Because it saves my bandwidth. I don't want to spend every day showing this thing. You know, I don't have to have the tenants and I don't just do this for my primaries. I do this for all my rentals, you know, But I don't have my tenant have to show it five, five times or have to coordinate getting them out of the house to show it. I'm just like, one time. And then it creates that urgency because I see, dude, there's three other families here that want it. Like, anyway, I love everything you just said. I think that there's a lot of value in that. So that's how you started. It was just kind of the house hack hopping. You just kind of moved on to the next house. Rent out the previous. Rent out the previous. As you. As you move for a couple times. So those are your first couple investments.
- [07:46]
Adam Zock
Yep. And then I, I actually, by doing that, someone said, hey, can I apply to this? And I had two people apply. And I said, no. But I tell you what, you look really good on paper. I want what you do. Why don't you go pick a house for sale? I'll buy it for you and you can rent it.
- [08:04]
Joe Jensen
No way. And that. You actually did that?
- [08:06]
Adam Zock
Yep. I said, here's a property I'm making an offer on. We're like, could this work? This one's a four bedroom, this one's a three bedroom. But this one has a three bedroom with like two living rooms. Like, if. If you want Like, I'm not even closed on this home. Like, but I was looking at adding like a fourth bedroom. Would you want this? And they said because it's not listed for rent, it's not listed for, like, there was no way they could have seen this. And they go, sure, we'll take it. I go, oh, now it's a smoking deal, right? Like, I want to get this thing because I already got a tenant ready to move in, like, as soon as I close.
- [08:35]
Joe Jensen
And a quality tenant that you vetted, you know that they're like, have good income, like, because you, you know, it's going to be good to go and you won't have any, you know, dry period only holding costs, waiting to find the right tenant. You're just like, you'll have one in before your first mortgage payment.
- [08:49]
Adam Zock
And, and, and part of this has led to what we do now here at Home Equity Partner, which is finding people first, property second.
- [08:55]
Joe Jensen
I was like, yeah, you call it reverse investing, right? Is that what you call it?
- [08:59]
Adam Zock
We do. It's. So even though this is what we did on the first one and the second one kind of happened to work that way, I also tried a bunch of other stuff, like, oh, let's buy this 1910 house, put $5,000 into it, and I'm sure it'll be worth $50,000 more. Well, it turns out my numbers were backwards. Like, we needed 50 grand to put into it and it only increased the value, $5,000 because we had to do like a sewer and plumbing and windows, like, nothing value add of like bathroom and cosmetics. We tried turnkey rental properties and put a bunch of capital into that. So, like, these were some of the highlight reels of like, hey, how it fast tracked us to finding our niche. But we also tried like three or four different things. And so that's what I would encourage you. Like, hey, just get started. What's the quickest path? But then also, like, keep experimenting, keep testing. Like, oh, do I like long term? Maybe I like multifamily makeup. Maybe I like short term rental. Like, but don't do it with like $250,000 at a time. Do it like, oh, what's the minimum cost? I can get into this just to.
- [09:53]
Joe Jensen
Kind of play with that niche and.
- [09:55]
Adam Zock
Be like, oh, if I'm interested in this, like, let's play with it. Not like, kind of go all in. And, and that's one piece that we did, but eventually landed on to what we do now, which is, yeah, we don't, we don't find A single property. We just find people and then they find the properties.
- [10:09]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, let's dive into that a little bit. So that's something you didn't just do as a one off kind of thing. You've actually perfected. You call it reverse investing. You focus on finding the people and then you go find a property for that person. Is that what other details are to that process? Like how are you finding these quality, quality tenants and how do you hold them on long enough to go through the months it takes to tie down a property in escrow and all that? Don't they need a place before that?
- [10:39]
Adam Zock
Oh, I love this. So I'm going to call it part A and part B. Part A is the simpler version. Part B is where we're reducing risk and kind of supercharging our reward. So part A is just make an offer on a home contingent upon getting a signed lease.
- [10:55]
Joe Jensen
That was our in your purchase contract.
- [10:58]
Adam Zock
Yeah. And if we don't get a tenant, we get to walk away scot free. And I was like, you can do that? They're like yeah. And I was like, so you're telling me I can just go make an offer on any property, get permission to post it on Facebook Marketplace and if I don't get the rent I want within a 10 day due diligence period or whatever, I could ask them for 21 days if I wanted to, then I could just cancel the contract and get my thousand dollars back. They're like, yeah. I'm like, well this, it's just unlimited, right. All I'm going to do is just get as like now it's just time constraint. How many homes can I get under contract that someone's willing? And it's so funny that you put a simple clause like that and other people, like savvy investors are like oh, that's a weasel out clause. That's basically get out of jail free card. Like contingent upon this. And I'm not, I'm not a real estate attorney. So if there's other language or other things that you need into there. But like I would make just a normal offer, 80%, you know, down or 80% loan, 20%, you know, 15 day inspection period, contingent upon financing, full price offer, normal exception upon a signed lease. And then, and then as I got smarter I was like, okay, and we're going to be able to show your house once a week or we're gonna be able to do this. And all I would do is go on like turbo tenant, Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist and list it at a price of a rent that I'd be willing to buy the house for, that would cash flow. Because then two things happened. My biggest assumption was I'm gonna buy this home and get whatever rent o meter says I'm gonna get for the rent. And that's my number one biggest assumption is I'm gonna get this rent. But the. The issue that I didn't like with it is, yes, maybe you can get that rent, but you gotta close, maybe fix up some things, do some other stuff, and then by the time you get them in there, it's like month two, if not month three, Especially for just screening. I was like, well, your first year is just shot from, like, a pro forma, like, your capital sitting there doing nothing. And so once we started getting people to apply, and then if I, like, saw a bunch of demand of, like, hey, I put this post. It's a $250,000 home. I put it for rent for $3,000, and I got 70 Facebook inquiries just because it happens to be a hot area. I'm like, okay, I'm pretty good waving, you know, go with the inspection. Keep proceeding. Because, like, you know what? I'll eventually fill this with someone because the demand is just so high that, like, I still feel comfortable, but it's just. It's the quickest way to, like, hedge your bets. Why not start marketing the property the same day you're under contract?
- [13:17]
Joe Jensen
I man, this. You are preaching to the choir. You're speaking my language. I love this. Adam. So. So a couple details. I want to know about that. So in the contract, is it under the same contingency line, or do you have an additional addendum for the permission to post and show? Like, what is the logistics of that?
- [13:35]
Adam Zock
It's literally. Literally under the others, where it's, hey, you know, contingent upon a signed lease, you know, buyer has the ability to post on Facebook Marketplace, you know, as a rental and show the home maybe once a week to.
- [13:48]
Joe Jensen
So that's all the same line. That's all on the same contingency line. Just.
- [13:51]
Adam Zock
Just in the other maybe three separate lines. Just, like, you know, contingent upon assigned lease period return, you know, has the ability to show the home, you know, x amount of times per week, period. And then what was the other one? Permission, ability to post online or. And use the same photos. Because, like, I don't. I don't want to take new photos and do all stuff. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna steal all the same photos. It's the same stuff. And then just post it online.
- [14:15]
Joe Jensen
That's awesome. I, I, I love that, like I said, because that really, when I'm running deals and if anybody, you know, is analyzing a deal, they go, they put everything in their asset analyzer, their deal calculator. And then there's like the rental income, right? You throw that in there and it's like everything hinges on if that's a true number, if that's a solid number. Like you say, if you're actually going to get filled with a tenant at that rental number, everything hinges on that. Or your cash on cash return, your cash flow, all of that's totally shot. If that number's off and you're just basically saying, well, then I'm going to make my whole deal contingent upon knowing I've got the tenant lined up. I love that.
- [14:55]
Adam Zock
And then that if you want to, I'll go then to part B. How we get even more creative.
- [14:58]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, let's get into it.
- [15:00]
Adam Zock
So now we went from we're under contract, now I'm hustling to find someone in a short amount of time. I was like, whoa, it'd be better if I could do all of that, get someone who wants the house. In fact, the person even picked out the house even before I get it, contingent. So I was like, cool, how can I do that? So it started off with college students, hey, just go pick a house that's listed for sale because rentals are shitty. Go pick out any house and I'll buy it at the 1% rule. And it was just like a go tell agents about it, tell bankers, tell whoever, they're like, hey, there's this guy that's buying college rentals for college. On college campuses, at the 1% rule, you can go pick a house for sale and whatever the price is, he'll basically buy it because I know it cash flows. And this was back during the time where 1% rule, you know, made general sense. Now with 6 and a half percent interest rates, maybe it's the 1.25% rule, but whatever your metric is, just say in general, this is what I'm looking for to make sure it cash flows for you. And so we we pulled on that a little bit and then we're like, okay. But after a year or two, they ended up leaving. So this is where we found that specific niche of rent to own, where you found the 1 to 10% of the population that can't quite get a bank loan wants the home with a mortgage, just can't do it. So whether it's low credit score, whether it's self employed, like I am, like I. It's ironic, I can't get a bank loan right now even though I got a higher net worth. But like to the bank I just left a nice cushy engineering job and I'm now doing real estate investing. That's super risky. And so it's like oh, this is ironic. And so like what are the odds that Joe, if I said hey Joe, can you buy me a house, like brand new construction, $350,000 by the way, instead of putting 1% down, how much would you need me to put down? I could put down maybe 10% or 20%. And Joe, all you got to do is get up, take title, get a mortgage for 80%. I'll cover the 20% down payment. You're basically like my co borrower and.
- [16:55]
Joe Jensen
So you have to promise to sell me that house when I'm ready to buy it.
- [17:00]
Adam Zock
That's right. So we have an agreed upon like 4% per year purchase buyback price. So you're buying it at 350 at a minimum, I'm buying it back for 375. Then it goes to 400, then 425. Every year you know, there's a price adjustment so you have your baked in appreciation. Now if it goes beyond that and it's worth $500,000 in a year, that's to my benefit. However, if it goes down the other way, I could technically walk away. But if you have 10 to 20% of my skin in the game, ain't no way I'm walking away, you know, from that type of a house. So that's all we do now is find people that are one to three years away from a mortgage, put them into our system, get them quote unquote pre approval terms that investors are willing to buy these individuals homes for and then make offers on the homes that they actually go pick out with local agents. We're not even there. So like we just closed on a home in Texas. The person found us, said hey, I'm moving from Nashville to Texas, I make 18 grand a month. And I go good for you. Holy cow. Like that's, that's a lot of money. That's like a pretty good income. I was like why can't you get a bank loan? He goes oh well I'm changing industry types from construction to finance, whatever it is. And so the bank doesn't like that, it's a new location and it's a different type. And so now that I'm a registered mortgage loan originator. Just recently got that like, because I wanted to peel back the layers. I'm like, why can't these people get a bank loan? He is making like 10 times the amount of money. Like most people are like, why does it make sense? He goes, and, and not only that, but I'll, I'll, on this $450,000 house, I'll put down 80 grand. And I'm like, this is like a no brainer. Who would not want to give him a loan? Well, bank doesn't. But what does a bank do? The banks just taking money, taking our, you know, checking account and lending out at 4%, 5%, 6%. So I was like, why can't we do the same thing? To me, this is a fairly low risk investment. It's someone, you know, close to A mortgage has 80 grand versus just a normal rental. So if they default, you know, there's a lot, it hurts a lot more if they're defaulting. And so we structure that with a lease and an option agreement. So that's, that's what we did to buy about 40 or 50 homes in our LLC. And we said super. And that's what allowed me and my co founder to quit our day jobs. All we were doing is buying homes for people that can't get a bank loan. Cash flow, they'd buy it back. Some of them didn't, some of them did. And now it's like, okay, we're really good at finding these people. And some people don't understand how Rent to Own works. But not only that, a lot of people get taken advantage of in Rent to Own. So we started an entire podcast dedicated to just free resources to what we call tenant buyers. People that can't get a bank loan make sure that you don't put 10% down and they get screwed a year later because you have to refinance and if not, you lose all your money. Because it's actually a fairly lucrative option for the tenant buyer to not buy the home. If you got $80,000 of my money and didn't buy the home, well now all of a sudden you're got a $350,000 home for 270,000. You could just go list it, fix it up, maybe put 10 or 20 grand into it and actually make a lot more money than if I exercise my option to buy it, you know, at 350 minus my down payment or 375 minus my down payment. And so that's, that was kind of the, the steps we went from, you know, just list our existing home to then having college kids pick out homes to then, you know, making offers contingent upon a lease to now having just this pool of a thousand people visit our website every week, maybe five to 10 apply. And so then we're just underwriting these individuals. And basically I felt it was the, it was the quickest way to almost restore some sort of like private mortgage matchmaking system. If like I'll buy any house for anybody if the price is right. I don't, you know.
- [20:33]
Joe Jensen
Right.
- [20:33]
Adam Zock
It shouldn't be the answer. But if you got a 400 credit score and you can't pay your bills, like, okay, you are about as high risk as you can get. So how do you offset risk and all alone to value equation? To me, not, not, not to say that we're heartless because we want to set up people for success and the whole goal is get them into a credit repair.
- [20:52]
Joe Jensen
You got to mitigate originator. Yeah.
- [20:54]
Adam Zock
Yep. But if I was, if I was simply just, you know, playing supply and demand, some would say, okay, cool, if you bring in 30% of the house value, like that's okay to me and I mitigate my risk.
- [21:08]
Joe Jensen
So let me dig into that a little bit. So this is really interesting. It's, and it's a little unique obviously. You know, you have like a special niche here. So you're using the tenants money to, as the down payment to go buy the house. You'll have the tenant say, hey, we're going to buy this house for you. Since you don't qualify for the loan, we'll qualify for loans but you got to put into 20% down. You got, you'll use their money to go actually buy the home. Put the title and deed in your name. You're leasing it to them with an option to buy when their credit's ready and their job history, whatever all the variables it takes to go qualify for normal loan, they get to first option to purchase it. At that point, obviously if they don't, you keep the home, you keep the down payment and they can move on with their life or they can stay and they can buy. That's up to them. Is that all right?
- [21:56]
Adam Zock
You got it. There's a little bit of semantics of how the money flows, but just in general, you got it.
- [22:01]
Joe Jensen
Of like how does the money flow? Let's dive into that.
- [22:04]
Adam Zock
Sure. So first thing is like okay, we get it under contract. Now there's a couple different ways that you can structure these things. There's typically like a lease with an option to purchase, there's a land contract, or you could truly take like a first position on a home. So let me walk it kind of back under those three, because I think when people say seller, finance or creative financing, I want to be pretty clear of who's on title and who's in what position. So what most people understand is a mortgage. Let's just say that you wanted to buy the home from them and take a first position, or in this case, maybe a second position on the home. Let's say that Joe is buying a home for Adam, and Joe's kind enough to let Adam go on title. Joe's going to get a loan from the bank, and maybe you have to be joint title, but just from like a pure, you know, mechanic standpoint, it was a $200,000 home. Adam's bringing 20% down. So there really needs to be 160K. You could just give Adam 160K, become first position on the home, name an interest rate, and Adam would just pay you back principal and interest with time, just like we would with a normal bank. Now, you as an investor don't like to do that because Adam's in control. Like, the most you can make is whatever the interest rate is. But if I pay you back, well, now you get your capital back. And not only that, but if I default, you are foreclosing on me, which is usually a beast process to get the homeowner back. Like in North Dakota, could be six to seven months.
- [23:29]
Joe Jensen
So you're not putting a lot tenants on title for sure. You're only having your LLC on the title.
- [23:35]
Adam Zock
And so in, in that case, like, if you were just loaning money, you could just do it as a strict mortgage like the banks do. Or there could be like, maybe Joe takes title and you do a contract for deed or a land contract. So now the title's still in your name, but it's like a vehicle. It's like the deed doesn't transfer to Adam until I've fulfilled the entire land contract. So you're still on title, but Adam has an equitable interest in the home still generally a foreclosure. Now, if we go the other way, Joe truly takes title. You exercise a lease with an option to buy with Adam. Adam's not on title. In some states, you have to file the option agreement, like Texas, so that Joe can't go and sell it to someone else and like, kind of cloud the title, so to speak. So because. So that I have first right of refusal. But in general, it's more risky for Joe to be in a first position mortgage than for Joe to be on title. And so Joe is the investor buying the home from Adam. It's more advantageous for Joe to be on title versus, you know, in a contract for deed or in a sandwich or, you know, in a, in a first position mortgage. And so what we've learned, having done all of these, is that most of our investors prefer to take title, enter in just a normal lease as one agreement, enter in an option agreement, which is another agreement. So now I'm paying you a non refundable option fee at closing to the title company. So let's just say that there's, you know, $200,000 due. I would wire in 40k to the title company. Your Wells Fargo bank might wire in 160k. Joe is going to take title, get a first position loan with Wells Fargo. You have your own principal and interest and taxes and insurance that you got to pay. And then I'm paying you say, $2,500 a month. And your mortgage is $1,800 a month. So you're basically just taking that cash flow spread every month.
- [25:26]
Joe Jensen
Okay, so I want to fully understand. So I think there's, so there's an, there's you guys as the company kind of running this show, and then you actually have investors as well as the tenants, or are you calling the tenants your investors?
- [25:38]
Adam Zock
No. So you're right. So we've transitioned from buy everything in our LLC to now more of a matchmaker. So we're connecting tenant buyers with real estate investors that want to buy homes and get cash flow. We still, we're still going to buy, you know, maybe 50% of them in our own LLC. But now what we've started doing is kind of saying like, you know what, there's only so many homes that we can buy. Let's say that the tenant buyer is putting 10% and we're putting 10, because not everybody puts 20 down. Like there's still, if you're buying 36 homes at an average of $200,000, you know, there's a serious amount of capital, you know, going into that.
- [26:17]
Joe Jensen
Yeah.
- [26:17]
Adam Zock
And so what we started saying is like, okay, that's, that's great. And we got 50, you know, of those. They're, they're, they're building wealth. You get to depreciate them. So they're great for my tax flow. But how could we help more investors? Like I was three or four years ago, I'm an engineer. I don't Have a ton of time, but I have an 800 credit score and any bank's going to give me a loan in about 12 seconds because I look super safe. So now we're trying to figure out, okay, what does this look like? And this is relatively new of connecting these tenant buyers with these investors that want this cash flow. And we're just facilitating kind of this unique rent to own process, understanding the paperwork, understand who's paying earnest money, who's doing the inspection, how are we connecting A to B? How is everyone secure? Who's signing the paperwork, what the heck is a lease option agreement? And what should I look out for on both sides? Trying to, trying to educate both pieces and then once we matchmake them, we take our assignment fee and then we're done. And the investor owns title, has this agreement with the tenant buyer and that way we've got kind of a quick nickel and the investor gets the slow dime. Versus previously we were just buying them and taking title and we still do, you know, maybe half of those. But just trying to offer up this opportunity to more individuals.
- [27:28]
Joe Jensen
That's cool. So you're virtually almost, you're acting as a wholesaler for these investors and you take an assignment fee. You're just connecting them with the same process that you're doing yourself. But to scale and to offer value to others, you just like, well, I can only do so many myself, so anything beyond that, we'll just basically wholesale out but with the same strategy that we've already used.
- [27:50]
Adam Zock
You got it. And so when I figured out like, okay, if I was just generally trying to search the MLS for a cash flowing property in today's day and age, it's pretty hard.
- [28:00]
Joe Jensen
Right? That's what I was hoping. You're explaining this. I'm like, how are you finding stuff that's going to cash flow for these investors though?
- [28:06]
Adam Zock
And so the trick is know what you're getting for rent before you even buy the house. So that's why we're kind of saying find the person first. And it's almost like on the MLS you list it for sale in the highest and best offer wins. And so it's like, okay, if we have this property, it's a rental, what's the highest and best use for it? It's that one, two people that are like, I need this school district, I want this area, I need to move, I have all this stuff. It's like, okay, what's the highest and best use of this specific property? And so yes, we're making you Know, it was pretty crazy there during COVID where, you know, almost nobody could get a home under contract, where it was like, you know, things were going for above and over. Now that things have cooled off, like we're still working with the tenant buyers and being like, hey, what do you want to offer? And a lot of them are just, hey, here's we can offer the MLS general list price because that's what it'll praise out for and still be able to assign it to an investor who can still cash flow at a 20% cash on cash ROI while making all of this work because of what you know the highest and best use of the property is. Now if we can get the property for, even at a lower discount, you know that that's a win win for everybody.
- [29:16]
Joe Jensen
So correct me if I'm wrong, but one key thing here is typically when you're doing these lease options, you can rent it for more than traditional rent. So this person coming in, the tenant buyer, they're going to put money down because they're like, I'm going to buy this thing, I'm going to own this thing in the three years, let's say, and I'm willing to pay more than normal rent because I know some of my rent's going towards equity because it's, I'm buying this, I've got, I've got, I'm invested in this. You can a lot of times rent it for more than normal rent and that's what gives you that cash flow and that return for your investors as opposed if it's just a normal renter and they're coming for a year and they're going to be gone and they're not invested. Is that right?
- [29:57]
Adam Zock
Yep, yep. So like an average right now, average $150,000 house, they would probably be having a monthly payment of maybe nineteen hundred dollars a month while getting X amount back as Equity. Maybe it's $200, maybe it's $400 only if they buy it, which is a credit towards them at the end. And so yes, it's a higher payment, but we're basically giving them the principal pay down if they exercise. But if they don't, the investor gets to keep it. So that's why it's kind of front loaded. But that, and that's also how it cash flows.
- [30:26]
Joe Jensen
Yeah. Because if you were to rent that same house out to just a normal renter without any of the lease option stuff, you know, it'd probably be renting for what, 1500 instead of 1900 if that Yep. Yeah, if that. And so that's really cool.
- [30:41]
Adam Zock
And. And what we found here recently that we started putting on all of our homes is something called risk or rent guarantee insurance. And I always wondered, when the bank sees someone that's riskier, which is basically not putting 20% down, what do they do? And they get money, private mortgage insurance. And I was like, oh, cool, we're kind of doing the same thing. Why don't we just go get pmi? And I called some people and they're like, what. What do you mean? You're. You're not a bank. You're not doing mortgages. You can't get private mortgage insurance. I was like, well, I'm technically a landlord and I'm selling it. And if they default, I just want someone to cover it in case they default. Turns out there's multiple companies that offer what's called rent guarantee. Basically, if someone defaults, they'll keep paying rent until you re rent it for $80 a month. And I was like, no way. So there's the guarantors, there's leap. And then single key from Canada is just coming to the United States. And they all have different pricing and structures. And I was like, so in general, if you're apartment building, if you're a single family, you can apply for these, get rent guarantee insurance, and you get to pay for different coverage amounts. Like, I want two months of coverage or six months of coverage or 10 grand or 20 grand. So basically, if they move out, trash the place, and you got to evict them, it'll cover like a thousand dollars for repairs, a thousand dollars for evictions, and then six months of lost rent. So I was like, so I can get like, a $15,000 insurance policy on top of their down payment, on top of higher rent. This better be heads, I win, tails I break even.
- [32:20]
Joe Jensen
And the key thing here is you're not paying that. You're having the tenant pay the rent insurance. Just like, you know, a normal buyer pays the pmi. You're having them cover the cost of that, right?
- [32:31]
Adam Zock
Yep. And when I figured this out, I was like, this is. This is what the banks do. And I was like, we're just. We're just taking our own flavor at it, coming at it from a rental. And because we're a little bit smaller, it's just a different way of kind of structuring the deal just by getting. And that's why I love real estate. Like, you can Google long enough, you call enough people, you're like, oh, that didn't work. This didn't work. And all of a sudden I'm like, what, what are people calling this? Rent guarantee insurance. So then you go down the rabbit hole. You start interviewing companies, and then you start placing policies. And then you start like, okay, what if I file a claim? Are they actually going to pay it out? Or is it like homeowners insurance? They're like, well, technically, because you were standing on your left foot, you know, we don't cover that. And so it's like reading through the terms and conditions. I mean, like, all right, how does this work and who's actually covering it and. And all those finer details. It's like, oh, man, this is like you're. You're. You're placing insurance for the worst case scenario, making them pay for it, getting more skin in the game. And I was like, we're like, this is. Then becomes a lot more attractive to investors because, you know, we started off completely serving the tenant buyers. But as more supply and demand goes up, if there's a bunch of investors that are now like, okay, between the down payment, the monthly payment, the location, the home condition, the rent guarantee, insurance, like, I'm willing to maybe take less of a cash on cash roi or maybe there's less risk in it. So then we can lower the payment. Maybe, maybe we can do that same thing for $1500, that $150,000 house, because we have all these. Maybe they're willing to take a lower cash on cash because right now we're shooting for a higher cash on cash because it's perceived riskier. But as we build up this work, it's kind of like a. Like a matchmaking system. It's basically like, hey, you want a house? I have capital. You want to buy it? Like, let's, let's come together on some sort of terms. We'll match, make it connect A to C. You know, we get a. We're now creating a business out of this as opposed to an investment vehicle, even though we use the investment vehicle ourselves.
- [34:23]
Joe Jensen
That's really cool, and I love it. You know, there's this concept that obviously you're familiar with because you're practicing it of asymmetrical investing, you know, the loser mentality. And you're going to hear this all the time. High risk, high reward. No. Like, if anybody's listening, Adam knows this. That is a poor man's philosophy. That is a good way to go broke. That is not how you invest. High risk, high reward is not how you do it. That you want it to Be asymmetric. You want low, low, low risk and high reward. And that's what you're doing. You're creating a way to insulate all your bottom line. Anywhere you can lose, you mitigate that to the point of, like, say, maybe break even at worst, but then you still have all the upside. Like, that principle is investing you guys. And that's exactly what Adam just explained in a really cool, creative way that he's applying every day. That's awesome.
- [35:14]
Adam Zock
I love that. Do you mind if we jam on that for a second? Yeah, yeah. I 100% agree. And so, like, in my mind, I'm like, okay, what's the only other risk in our whole scenario? And it's, what if the market tanks? Like, in my mind, there's still that option. So, like, secretly, Adam's being like, oh, is there, like, insurance against price adjustments? I was like that. So all I'm doing is, like, trying to figure out, okay, if I can't. The only way I lose money is if I can't get rent, if I have a ton of repairs or the property value isn't where it is when I bought it from, like, an initial investment. And so I was like, how do I hedge against all those? So, like, I'm currently looking at. They. They actually had a. I forget what they called it. Like, a price. Price salvation. Insurance went out of business because real estate generally always went up. And so, like, nobody really wanted. They're like, why would I buy insurance against my home declining? Because real estate generally goes up. And so, like, oh, well, nobody really wants this. But I was like, if somebody created that, I would buy it because I would layer this in. I'd make the tenant buyer do it. And now your risk for you, like, it's almost a value add then for your tenant buyer and for you. Because if you buy a $200,000 house and it drops to 130, or if it's crazy, like Idaho or California, like, whether or not you can package that up, it's kind of all the risk. But I love what you said on the asymmetric risk to reward. And I think you get the straight diagonal line on just assets, bonds, stocks, securities, like date. Like, if you're just doing deploying capital in general, I would agree. Same risk to reward. But when you get to apply effort and skill set, that's really where you get to move the needle into which quadrant you're doing. Because otherwise, it's a little bit of luck. Like, if you just go pick stocks by putting no time into it you'll probably follow the same diagonal, but if you invest a bunch of time, or you have what I call skill set, which is either you're super resourceful, you know someone, you have some inside knowledge, that skill set is going to drive you into that asymmetric reward.
- [37:12]
Joe Jensen
And that's what's so cool about real estate, right? Is you can go in and manually apply that skill set. You know, if I buy Apple stock, it doesn't matter my skill set. I can't adjust the situation, really. You know what I mean? But like you say with real estate, there's so many creative ways you can go in and like move the pieces around and use that skill set in ways that most investment vehicles just don't even offer. Man, that's cool. So you do this reverse investing. You're finding the renter, the tenant buyers, you're calling them. And then you now have started adding investors to kind of scale this for you. And some you keep in house, some you're just taking a assignment fee in between. And you're finding a way to make it really safe for everybody and get people into homes they wouldn't normally be able to get into. And I think that that's, that's really, really cool. Is what's the kind of the big picture game plan for you on that? Is this like something you're trying to scale into a full business and how are you going to keep in housing things where you're actually building your portfolio? Or is it just kind of an active income?
- [38:21]
Adam Zock
Sure. I think what was important for me is when I first started, it was all about the numbers. How much passive income can I get to quit the W2 or replace it? And I didn't hate my job, but it was like, okay, how do I get there? And to me, that was fairly motivating because it was pretty family centric of like, I want way more flexibility and freedom over my time and over my money. So, like, even though it felt selfish of like I was chasing a number, like that's it was whatever transaction made that happen. But as soon as we started texting, like the people that got into homes, and I was like, you know what? There's no way this person would have got into this home without us 100%. Nobody on planet Earth could have got them into this home except for us. Like, then it was like, ooh, now we start having some purpose behind that. It turned in from like a money thing to like, I know for a fact that there's dozens of people that would not be in their house today if we did not exist with like no questions asked, like, cool. This is, this is awesome. And so it's like, okay, well how do we, how do we scale that? Because there's so many rules, you know, between being an agent, whether it's a loan originator, but in my mind it's, it's some sort of private mortgage matchmaking. Instead of everything going to Fannie Mae and, and the federal government because they're sponsoring this stuff. I was like, can you make an offer so good that you can beat the bank's interest rate? And that's the current question I'm asking myself, like right now if we could borrow at 6.75%, is there a group of people that if they just got a 5% return on their money, would they be happy because you made it so safe?
- [40:02]
Joe Jensen
Like everything you've been talking about, if you can make it so safe, you know, and then you get these people lined up and you can beat the banks.
- [40:11]
Adam Zock
And so, and so I'm curious. And so that's, that's a long term goal because I, and I've realized that I've had, you know, various different goals and it's a little bit of a shiny ball, but like that, that general idea is what's kind of kept the true north. Now we've had the same entrepreneur roller coasters of like, holy cow, we didn't know this rule existed, or this state's different or this. And like, so I'm giving you maybe the highlight reel, but we could also go through the, the dumb that Adam's done in, you know, in a five year period and it be equally entertaining because there's a bunch of lessons learned in there. I feel like every, every highlight was like pre fronted or came right after, like, oh, I guess we shouldn't do that. Here's the problem. How do we solve that problem from like vacancy to cash flow to the property to the type, to the location, to the type of tenant buyer to the type of investor to how we structure the deal. Like, so we've been learning all that. So it's like. But if that was the end goal, where you could make something so efficient and so safe that instead of the bank having to go to these different pieces, could you, could you honestly, like, if it's a 401k that you just said, hey, right now I'm going to give you 5% on your money, you know, for a year, and someone just said, oh, you know, I'm, I'm good with that. And if you had enough pool and resources. So I'm currently playing around with that, you know, big picture idea of what that would look like to truly like instead of it just being here's these big entities, they pool them all together on some sort of mortgage backed security. Could you actually play matchmaker? You have 100 million homeowners, you have a trillion dollars of investors, you know, through a hundred thousand people. Could you actually, you know, effectively based on some sort of risk rating, actually connect them on an individual level or does it have to be, you know, you have to buy them in so much scale that that's the only way it makes sense. So if there's a way to privatize the mortgage industry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to find it. And for now we're just kind of carving our way of finding that avenue that the bank doesn't serve and then eventually see if there's a way we can structure it from both the investors and the tenant buyers side. And I don't know if that's like taking joint title in a trust and then setting up some sort of quick claim deed with some sort of escrow so like you don't have to evict or you don't have to foreclose. And it's actually the trust, you know, and having kind of a safe beneficiary or a trustee operating that to kind of make things work. But getting, getting definitely creative with like what that looks like. But that's the, the 10 to 20 year vision, man.
- [42:31]
Joe Jensen
I, I love it. You definitely have a, you like say a vision and, and you know, you're not afraid to dream big, which is cool. And that's where you've gotten, how you've gotten, where you've gotten. But I want to do it a reverse. So two things I do want to hear about one of your favorite failures because I think we can learn a lot from those, like you said. So one of the things that kind of blew up into, went south. I want to hear about that. But also I want to say let's turn this around. So for the average listener, you know, they maybe own a couple investment properties, maybe none, but they're like, okay, cool. I like a little bit of what Adam's saying. I'm not going to go start a whole business running this. But what could I apply out of his unique perspective and his kind of a niche style of investing, what could the average person do to, you know, maybe just to go acquire a couple more deals in, in an interesting market?
- [43:20]
Adam Zock
Sure. I would say one of three things and then I'll summarize with maybe a comical story. One is if you have an existing house, if you have any possibility of renting it, just to see, hey, will you make me move? List it, talk to your family, talk to whoever it is and be like for this price and cash flowing, $1,000 a month, I'm willing to risk it. Second one, start making offers contingent upon assigned lease, start getting to work. Or third, talk to all the agents and bankers that you know and say, hey, do you have anybody that, that agent? Did you have someone that couldn't get pre qualified and loan officers? Is there anybody that you denied a bank loan? Turns out I want to use you, Mr. Agent or Mrs. Banker actually as you can still, you can still fulfill this transaction. If the agent's like go get a pre approval letter, like oh, it turns out I got denied by the bank because I'm self employed. Perfect. Send that person over to you. You then get that person's information, underwrite them however you'd want to do it and be like, oh, you know, agent, I'll actually buy the home. You're the agent, you still get your transaction, you still get your 3%. And if you can still use that banker, if they're a loan officer and you're bankworthy, because most of the individuals probably listen to this, probably have a W2 job and can get a bank, you then help the agent, you help that loan officer that couldn't get the deal done. You get the person into the home and you're cash flowing. And so I would network like hell along your local area because there is, I just did a podcast on this and I don't want to mess up the stats. In General, it's about 10% of mortgage applicants to get denied, which is like 2 million applications every year. In general, with interest rates changing, it's still more difficult for people to get into it. But just think of the top reasons like credit score and debt to income ratio. Credit score is pretty easy, right? You need the 580 or the 620 unless it's like a really weird FHA 10% down. But like there's a lot of people that fit that boat. Especially over this next year where we're going to start seeing some financial hardships with interest rates with, with inflation and all that stuff. Like there's probably a need there. And then the debt to income ratio, that, that's such a weird calculation because if I'm self employed and on paper it shows That I make negative money because I have real estate and I write off a bunch of stuff even though I might have cash in the bank, doesn't matter how much debt I have in zero because my income is zero. So no matter what divided by zero, it's going to be zero or infinity I guess or however the number looks like. But like in general, like if the bank can't count income because it's the not the right type, not the right employment history, those are your individuals and if they're riskier, set your own expectations. Do you want 2% down from them? Do you want 5%? Do you want 10%? And you could kind of use your own criteria but typically you'll be an agent and a banker's best friend if you just say hey, give me all of your bad leads and I'll go through and pre screen them and see if there's anybody that I would be willing to buy them a house. And it and the higher the property, typically the higher the profit margin. But it would be finding that unique subset of people in your area, whether it's a local Facebook group, whether it's an agent, whether it's go talking with people. But those would be my three tips on if they were you going to self start this and how to do it.
- [46:42]
Joe Jensen
I like that, I like that. Let me ask you a question here. So what, what would be why wouldn't someone if especially if they have the money for the down payment but they can't go get the loan, right. Why wouldn't they just go get like a DSCR loan or something like that? So well, I guess if they're living in it, then there's no cash flow.
- [46:59]
Adam Zock
Oh, there's the key. So if someone has the capital but not the credit score, they can't get a DSCR loan because it's owner occupied. Not owner occupied. But ironically if you go two people over, another person can. Yeah, because it's non owner occupied. How stupid is that? Like you're saying I can't buy a DSCR product for myself, but I can go one person over and as long as the money's there, they can buy the house because it's non owner occupied.
- [47:29]
Joe Jensen
But that's exactly. There we go. That answer. Yeah, that's funny because I was thinking, I was like, well there's ways if you don't qualify for loans. But I was thinking as an investor but not for primaries and that's the beauty of the relationship that you're connecting.
- [47:42]
Adam Zock
And I mean that might be just thinking out Loud. I mean, whether it's a DSER or maybe even calling ourselves, if I wanted to use bad terminology, hard money loans for owner occupied individuals. If I was trying to dissuade someone from using our services because at least for us, you're going to pay the most for that house. But it's because we're doing something no one else can do.
- [48:04]
Joe Jensen
You're like a primary residence DSCR lender or hard money lender.
- [48:08]
Adam Zock
That's right. And so like you might pay higher points, you might have a higher buyback, you might have a higher interest rate. But for those individuals, like, and the DSCR pool is huge. Like the amount of money that people are doing in dscr, even with like the, the origination, the prepayment, the higher interest rates, like there's an incredible demand. So all we're doing is tapping into, yeah, probably the owner occupied equivalent of a DSCR loan. You make good income and you have a down payment. Turns out there's a lot of people that want to buy you a house because those are the biggest things they're looking for cash flow and a low price to value entry into a home to mitigate the risk. And then we've just found ways to layer on additional security.
- [48:47]
Joe Jensen
This is cool, man. Well, we're almost out of time and I do want to get to our final four questions. We might need to have you back on in a little bit though because I feel like we have a lot more things to do discuss. But let before we do go out though, I did. Can you bring up maybe one of the, the lessons you've learned, one of the failures you've had or you know, failure is a funny word, but the things that kind of blew up, you're like, man, learned a lesson there.
- [49:14]
Adam Zock
I, I'm gonna probably give you five really quick ones because they're all top of my head. First tenants that came into our house flooded the basement and I was pulling up carpet on a Sunday night being like, there's no way we're ever going to do this because they forgot to put the downspouts on. We bought a House in 1910 because we thought it would cash flow. But it turns out you need a bunch of money into really old houses and things, you know, aren't made that way anymore. We bought turnkey properties with existing tenants and it turns out the tenants really sucked and there was a reason that investor was selling the house and so they were already behind and so that didn't work. Actual legal concerns of like, we were trying to assign These properties. And there was like a rule saying, okay, you can't assign these. And by the way, you have to close on this deal or we're going to sue you. Okay, learn that out. Securities, North Dakota securities. I called them up and said, hey, this is what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to raise money, do these other things. They go, oh, really? Tell me more. I go, okay, we're trying to do this, we're trying to do that. They go, okay, here's a letter. Here's a, like a, almost like the equivalent of a cease and assist. If you break these rules, you could go to jail. And I was like, oh my God, like, I'm like, had wife, had kids, get this letter where me and my business partner are about to go to Chicago on like this three day, like kind of brainstorm session. And so we're calling attorney, like securities attorneys on a Friday, like on our way down there. Like what a buzz kill type thing of like. And turns out no, you know, no rule in fraction. Like, different things, but like, oh, there's, there's different forms that you got to file when you're raising capital. There's different things you got to do. So like all of these things that are like, should have been like, hey, by the way, you almost run out of capital. By the way, your first property like flooded the basement. And I had to deal with that for 10 years because I, you know, just recently sold it to like securities, to other stuff. But if you, if you take all those same things, which could be really good reasons to not get into real estate, you can come up with a thousand of them because there's gonna be those. All you're trying to do is learn hedge, listen to something and try to mitigate the risk.
- [51:05]
Joe Jensen
How could you have stopped the flooding?
- [51:09]
Adam Zock
Man, they had the neighbor mowing for them. The neighbor was like a 10 year old kid, lifted up the downspouts and just forgot to put them back down. So technically I could have like driven by or had a property manager or something like make sure that, hey, guess what, it's going to rain like cats and dogs. Let's make sure the downspouts are down. But that's, that's about it. Those ones are pretty tough to like in hindsight. Like, okay, well let's make sure that the grading's there or the sump pumps working or like there's probably a combination of things. But like in general it's not good to have a bunch of water running right down to your foundation in, in In North Dakota.
- [51:44]
Joe Jensen
Yeah. And like you said, man, these things happen. It's part of the game. You calculate it into your risk, you calculate it into your reserves. You know, there's going to be issues and. And you just, you pivot and you keep going and you learn as you go. You know, I love that you had a list of things that go wrong, but it's like none of those broke you. You know what I mean? They don't stop you. Like, you're still killing it. You're still, you know, financially independent. You can be with your kids and your wife and grow your business the way you want to instead of spending, you know, eight, nine, ten hours a day building someone else's business, you know?
- [52:17]
Adam Zock
You know, it's ironic. I. I am. I am curious if you can find me, because I haven't found that. I haven't found somebody with one rental property. They either have zero or they have more than one either. It's like, I tried it out and I, like, jump back into the safe zone. Or it's like, oh, I did one, let's do two, let's do three, let's do four, let's do. Like, I never ran into somebody who's like, yeah, I just have one. And you know what? That's fine by me. It's like they get addicted to it. They want to keep doing more. Or they're like, I swung, I didn't like it. And like, you know, they kind of. They kind of run back. But I also run into way more that are like the 90% that are like, oh, I want one. I just never take the action.
- [52:53]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, for sure. No, I think that's an interesting point. I like that. Well, sweet, man. Obviously, people are going to want to follow you. There's probably a handful of people that are going to want to participate in your program on the investor side, others on the buyer side. Like I said that that comes from people with low credit to people switching jobs. I was just talking with one of my students and. And they make incredible money. I mean, almost like a million dollars a year, but. But because of the way this certain income and they're moving, the lenders are like, you're going to have to wait a year to buy. I'm like, no, there's ways around that. But like I said, yours is one of the ways around that. So how can people follow you? Where's the best place for them to go, learn more and be a part of what you're doing?
- [53:33]
Adam Zock
Sure. The first, the main business of buying homes for People that can't get a bank loan along with investors is homeequitypartner.com that's the main landing site. But if you type in. Yep. But if you type in homeequitypartner.com investors right now, that's not a live outward facing. So you'd have to listen to this podcast to kind of get in to that back end to get access. And in there is a two example lease option contract. So if you just want to see what goes into a lease option contract, you can download it for free there and then my, my kind of Kickstarter passion project is engineeringrei.com and that's specifically working with working dads who happen to have multiple young kids looking for some time freedom. Because that's exactly who I was five years ago. And when you're in that spot all like, you're so crammed for time. You're a working professional. Like you want to be there with your kids but you have. And you got marriage, you got other stuff. And so just building a community around that and advice because I, I think freeing dads is going to do a lot of good in the world.
- [54:34]
Joe Jensen
Man, you're awesome. I love what you're doing. I love the passion you have for and everything you're bringing in. We'll definitely need to have you back on the show. This was super fun for me. Let's go into our final four questions, Adam. So there's something we ask everybody that comes on the show. So question number one, Adam, what is a non real estate related bucket list item that you've recently checked off or you're excited to check off next?
- [54:57]
Adam Zock
I ran a half marathon last month on Zero Prep.
- [55:02]
Joe Jensen
Zero Prep. There you go.
- [55:04]
Adam Zock
Trying to channel my inner David Goggins and Blisters feet and all. But it was really fun to do.
- [55:08]
Joe Jensen
How'd you hold up through it?
- [55:10]
Adam Zock
I, I did pretty good. It was just the blisters. My family was there cheering me on and different things. And I recommend prepping, but I'm not the one that can do that. I'm just like, I'm just gonna see if I can do it. I'm generally in good shape. So I just tried it and away it went. And it was, and it was a fun feat. A little, little sore for, for a week afterwards, but I'm glad I did it.
- [55:30]
Joe Jensen
There's something about that. Like I say it's fun to train and build for something, but there's something unique about just diving into something untrained being like, let's See how this goes. I've done that too. I love that.
- [55:39]
Adam Zock
How much pain can I handle?
- [55:41]
Joe Jensen
Right? All right, question number two. What book are you currently reading?
- [55:46]
Adam Zock
Right now it is. I'm trying to think on my audible list. I had it up there. Right now it's a dad book called oh shit, I think I have a Toddler and it's about the two to five year olds and how their brains work a little bit different.
- [56:07]
Joe Jensen
I might need to read that because my 4 year old's brain definitely is working different. They're a handful. All right. Sweet, man. Oh, shit. I think I have a toddler. I need to check that one out or.
- [56:17]
Adam Zock
Oh, crap. I think I have a toddler. That's what it is. Oh, crap.
- [56:20]
Joe Jensen
Yep, there you go. All right, number three, what? Content, book, podcast, course, YouTube channel, et cetera. Any sort content out there besides anything that we're associated with. What, what would you think people should check out?
- [56:34]
Adam Zock
Depends on where you're at, your journey. If you're just getting started, just kind of into this whole thing. I'm a big fan of Darren Hardy. Whether it's a compound effect, whether it's his, you know, daily morning, you know, kind of success principles. If you're a little bit further along in your business, anything by Alex Hormozi is incredible.
- [56:55]
Joe Jensen
Awesome. I love it. Both big fans. I'm a big fan of both of them. All right, last question. Then we'll let you get back to being a KK dad. What would your text message to the world be if you could send out a message and everybody's phone's gonna get it?
- [57:12]
Adam Zock
I would say love thy neighbor.
- [57:20]
Joe Jensen
There you go. Can't beat that. I love him. My man. Well, I can tell you have a passion for real estate, a passion for your family, a passion for helping others be able to kind of do what you've done and change their lives. There's so many things and so many opportunities out there. It's cool to have people and resources like, like yourself and what you're providing. So thanks for doing that. Thanks for being on the show and, and giving people a glimpse into everything you've been doing.
- [57:44]
Adam Zock
I appreciate having the opportunity. Thanks for all the great questions and had had an absolute blessing. Blast myself having a conversation with you, Joe.
- [57:51]
Joe Jensen
This is fun. All right, well, this is Joe Jensen signing off for the Real estate Investing school podcast reminding you to love thy neighbor.