245. How to Build Wealth with Raw Land with Mark Podolsky

Summary

Real Estate Investing School Podcast – Episode 245: How to Build Wealth with Raw Land with Mark Podolsky

Host: Joe Jensen
Guest: Mark Podolsky
Release Date: March 17, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 245 of the Real Estate Investing School Podcast, host Joe Jensen welcomes Mark Podolsky, the owner of Frontier Properties and renowned as the country's most trusted authority on buying and selling raw undeveloped land. Mark, also known as the Land Geek, shares his extensive experience, having completed over 6,000 raw land deals since 2001 with impressive returns on investment. He is also the host of the Art of Passive Income Model podcast and the author of the book Dirt Rich: How One Ambitiously Lazy Geek Created Passive Income in Real Estate Without Renters, Renovations, and Rehabs.

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Mark Podolsky’s Journey into Land Investing

Mark begins by recounting his transition from a high-stress career in investment banking to becoming a full-time land investor. In 2000, dissatisfied with his demanding job and long commutes, Mark was inspired by a colleague who was successfully flipping raw land online, achieving a 300% return on cash purchases and over 1,000% returns on financed deals.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [00:02:23]: "I went to my wife and said, honey, I'm going to quit my job and become a full-time land investor."

He took his initial savings of $3,000 to purchase 10 half-acre parcels in New Mexico at $300 each, flipping them online for an average of $1,200 each. This initial success led to a spectacular $90,000 profit from land deals in Arizona, ultimately convincing his wife to support his career change after 18 months of consistent income growth.

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Market Efficiency and Pricing Strategy

Mark discusses the enduring inefficiency of the raw land market, emphasizing the challenge of accurately pricing land due to the lack of comprehensive comparable sales data on platforms like MLS.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [04:09]: "The market is still inefficient. You can't go on Zillow and really figure out the comps on a piece of raw land. They're all over the place."

His approach involves meticulous county research, utilizing resources like assessor databases and DataTree.com to gather comparable sales data. Mark employs a conservative pricing strategy by taking the lowest comparable sale and dividing it by four, which he describes as a 300% margin of safety, to ensure profitable offers.

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Flipping vs. Financing Land: The Passive Income Model

Mark outlines his primary strategy of flipping raw land to generate immediate passive income, likening it to rental properties but without the associated hassles such as maintenance and tenant management.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [05:09]: "I typically want to flip it and make it cash flow, like a rental home. I can walk you through the model."

He elaborates on his business model, which involves purchasing undervalued land, conducting due diligence to confirm ownership and absence of liens, and then selling or financing the land to create cash flow. Mark emphasizes the scalability of this model, aiming for a deal a day, and highlights the low likelihood of being stuck with unsellable land due to his aggressive acquisition prices.

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Team Structure and Automation

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the importance of building a robust team and leveraging automation to create a passive income machine. Mark shares insights into how his team operates, including:

• Acquisition Managers: Handle intake, negotiate with sellers, and manage paperwork.
• Marketing Teams: Create and distribute ads using optimized templates.
• Sales Assistants: Qualify leads and facilitate sales processes.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [29:44]: "So the first thing we want to do is as our county research, we want to know definitively there's a market there based on our budget."

He stresses the importance of delegating tasks through Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) and virtual assistants, allowing him to spend minimal time managing the day-to-day operations—often only an hour a week.

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Solo Economic Dependency and Financial Freedom

Mark introduces the concept of solo economic dependency, where an individual's income is directly tied to their active work. He contrasts this with his model, which aims to break this dependency by creating passive income streams through land investing.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [32:22]: "The only way to break out of it is to create this passive income machine."

He references the book The Second Mountain to illustrate his philosophy of shifting focus from personal achievements to community and relationships once financial freedom is attained through passive income.

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Strategies for Scaling and Managing Risk

Mark addresses potential concerns about the sustainability and scalability of his model, particularly regarding the finite nature of land notes. He explains that defaults on notes actually present opportunities to lower the cost basis and extend returns, citing an example where a client made over $250,000 from defaults alone.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [12:06]: "I've made over $250,000 just on default."

He emphasizes the importance of automation and using software like GeekPay IO for automatic payment collections, ensuring the business continues to generate income with minimal oversight.

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Getting Started in Land Investing

Mark provides actionable steps for beginners interested in land investing:

1. County Research: Identify markets in sunshine states (e.g., New Mexico, Colorado, Utah) with high buyer interest and low competition.
2. Budget Alignment: Start with small parcels that fit within the personal budget and scale up as experience and capital grow.
3. Systematization: Use tools like Landmodo.com, Landedfarm.com, and automated mailing services (LGPass.com) to streamline acquisition and marketing processes.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [16:43]: "So typically you want to buy about five to seven properties when you first start."

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Navigating Legal and Financial Structures

When using investors' money, Mark explains that his partnerships are registered as securities for accredited investors, ensuring compliance with regulations. Investors receive 70% of the equity on each property, providing them with substantial returns compared to traditional investments.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [17:35]: "They get 70% of the equity on that property."

He highlights the minimal risks associated with raw land investing, particularly when environmental issues are diligently avoided during due diligence.

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Overcoming Common Challenges

Mark addresses common challenges faced by new land investors, such as maintaining consistent deal flow and avoiding the temptation to halt operations after initial successes. He underscores the importance of continuous offers and automated systems to prevent gaps in the business pipeline.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [27:27]: "Another big mistake that I see newbies making."

He shares a personal anecdote about overcoming initial setbacks, such as purchasing inaccessible land, and how creative marketing (e.g., selling on eBay) can still result in profitable deals.

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Philosophical Insights and Personal Growth

Toward the end of the episode, Mark and Joe delve into deeper philosophical discussions about freedom, purpose, and the psychological aspects of wealth accumulation. Mark emphasizes that true freedom comes from overcoming solo economic dependency and focusing on community and relationships.

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [49:50]: "At the end of our lives we'll ask ourselves two questions. Did I love and was I loved?"

He also touches on the importance of setting personal goals and avoiding the trap of constantly moving the goalposts, advocating for a balanced approach to wealth and personal fulfillment.

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Resources and Final Thoughts

Mark promotes his book Dirt Rich and his website thelandgeek.com as key resources for listeners interested in learning more about his land investing model. He shares a motivational quote by Zig Ziglar to inspire persistence and dedication:

Notable Quote:

Mark Podolsky [49:32]: "If you'll do for the next three to five years what other people won't do, you'll be able to do for the rest of your life what other people can't do."

He encourages listeners to embrace grit and continuous learning to achieve financial and personal freedom.

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Listener Q&A Highlights

1. Message to the World:

   Mark Podolsky [49:50]: "It's all about love. Did I love and was I loved?"

2. Book Recommendations:

   • Fiction: Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts
   • Nonfiction: 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman

3. Most Expensive/Interesting Mistake:
   Mark cites the absence of a mentor early in his career as a costly but enlightening mistake, emphasizing the value of guidance and humility.

4. Encapsulating Reason for Loving Real Estate Investing:

   Mark Podolsky [53:45]: "Freedom, baby."

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Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Mark Podolsky shares his proven strategies for building wealth through raw land investing, emphasizing the importance of automation, team building, and a solid understanding of market inefficiencies. His philosophy centers on achieving financial and personal freedom while fostering meaningful relationships and community connections. For aspiring land investors, Mark offers a scalable, low-risk model that has been refined over thousands of successful deals.

Stay Connected:

• Website: thelandgeek.com
• Book: Dirt Rich: How One Ambitiously Lazy Geek Created Passive Income in Real Estate Without Renters, Renovations, and Rehabs
• Podcast: Art of Passive Income Model

Final Quote:

Mark Podolsky [49:50]: "If you'll do for the next three to five years what other people won't do, you'll be able to do for the rest of your life what other people can't do."

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to capture the key points, discussions, and insights from the podcast episode. For a complete understanding, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full episode.

Transcript

[Mark Podolski]

I mean, nobody wins a race they don't want to be in. So you have to figure out what. What is your vision of freedom?

[Joe Jensen]

Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. I'm your host, Joe Jensen. Our guest today, Mark Podolski. Now, Mark is the owner of Frontier Properties, a land investment company. Mark, also known as the Land Geek, is widely considered the country's most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw undeveloped land within the United States. Since 2001, Mark's completed over 6,000 raw land deals with an average return on investment of over 300%. Yeah, 300 on cash purchases and over a thousand percent on land deals he's financed. Mark is also the host of a top rated podcast called the Art of Passive Income Model. And he's the author of Dirt Rich How One Ambitiously Lazy Geek Created Passive Income in Real Estate Without Renters, Renovations and Rehabs. I love that full title. I had to read the whole thing because I'm like, man, that hits on the heart of a lot of real estate investors. You know what you're doing. But welcome to the show, Mark.

[Mark Podolski]

Joe, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[Joe Jensen]

This is exciting. So, yeah, like you said, I mean, there's a lot we could dig into there. Your book, you hit on some things there that a lot of, are a lot of headaches to real estate investors. You know, people get into this game, they're like, oh, passive income, I'm excited. Not have to have a job, whatever, buy a bunch of rental properties, and then they find themselves dealing with renters, renovations, rehabs, repairs, and just all this stuff. And you don't have to do that when you have dirt. There's not a lot of plumbing issues and dirt, is there?

[Mark Podolski]

No, there's no. Yeah, no one's ever called me at three in the morning and said, hey, my, my land is leaking.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, you know, that's, that's good. I actually, I have a rental property where that is happening. Somehow the land, there's water coming up into the home somehow through the land. I'm like, how is this happening? We've added so many issues. But anyway, yeah, so, so that's super interesting. Was it always land for you or did you start, you know, more traditional on some rental properties?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I'm an inch wide and a mile deep. I mean, if we rewind the tape to 2000, I was a miserable, micromanaged 45 minute commute to work and back investment banker specializing in mergers and acquisitions with private equity groups. And Joe, it got so bad for me, I wouldn't get the Sunday blues, anticipating Monday coming around. I'd get the Friday blues, anticipating the weekend going by really fast and having to be back at work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy and he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's buying up raw land, pennies on the dollar, he's flipping them online and he's making a 300% return on his money. And Joe, I'm looking at companies all day long. And a great company, Great, has 15% EBITDA margins or free cash flow. Average company's 10%. Now I'm looking at companies all day long, less than 10%. So I don't believe him. So I go to New Mexico with him. I got three grand saved up for car repairs and I do exactly what he tells me to do. I buy 10 half acre parcels, an average price of $300 each. I flip them online, they all sell for an average price of $1,200 each. It worked. So I took all that money, went to another auction, and this is in Arizona, where was where I live. And again it's 2000, there's no one in the room and I'm buying lots of acreage for nothing. I sell all that land and I made over $90,000 cash.

[Joe Jensen]

Wow.

[Mark Podolski]

So I go to my wife and she's pregnant. I said, honey, I'm going to quit my job and become a full time land investor. And she said, absolutely not. So I said, okay. Okay. So it took about 18 months for land investing income to exceed the investment banking income. And then I quit and I've been doing it full time ever since.

[Joe Jensen]

Man, I bet you've seen how has the market changed in the past 25 years doing this kind of game?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. So what's interesting is that the market is still inefficient. So you can't go even with all the technology, you can't go on Zillow and really figure out the comps on a piece of raw land. They're all over the place. So it's the best thing about the model. It's the worst thing about the model is trying to figure out pricing. So the way that I typically will do it when I go into a new market is I'll look at the comparable sales for the last 12 to 18 months and I'll just take the lowest comparable sale, divide by four. That'll give me what Warren Buffet would call 300% margin of safety and send out offers based on.

[Joe Jensen]

Where are you finding comparables on Raw land is not on the MLS typically, I would imagine.

[Mark Podolski]

No, it's not on the mls. You have to contact the assessor. You can go to a website like datatree.com and get that data as well.

[Joe Jensen]

Oh, cool. Okay. So do you. Do you hold any of it? Is it all just a flipping game?

[Mark Podolski]

No, no. I typically want to flip it and make it cash flow, like a rental home. So I can walk you through the model. Now, occasionally, I will buy something in the path of growth, and then I just put it into my trust with the instructions for my kids to be like, hey, do not sell this land until, you know, you get a seven figure, you know, offer from a developer. But I don't focus on that. I don't want to be a land banker where land banking is a hockey stick. Right. It's negative cash flow. Negative cash flow, and then boom comes. But you could wait 20 years, essentially. So I want cash flow immediately. So, Joe, if you want, I can. I can walk you step by step through the model. Yeah, let's do it. If you want to, you know, do it.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. I mean, it just seems crazy. Like I said, 300% return, you know, a thousand percent return on deals that you finance. And these numbers, they do sound like too good to be true to the typical investment. You know, most people that come to me, they're like, hey, if I could get 10%, 20%, I'd be stoked. You know, when you're looking at hundreds, it's like, how's that possible? And how's that scalable? So, yeah, I'm excited. If you can dive in to the process of what you do, that would be awesome.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Joe, where do you live?

[Joe Jensen]

So I live in Utah. Southern Utah, St. George, Utah area.

[Mark Podolski]

St. George, Utah. Okay, beautiful. So let's assume that you own five acres of raw land where I live in Arizona.

[Joe Jensen]

Okay.

[Mark Podolski]

And you owe $200 in back taxes. So you're advertising two very important things to me. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to the raw land. Number, you're in Utah, the property's in Arizona. And number two, you're financially distressed in some weird way because you haven't paid your property taxes.

[Joe Jensen]

Right.

[Mark Podolski]

As a result, kind of treasurer keeps sending you notices saying, joe, if you don't pay your property taxes, you're going to lose that property to a tax deed or tax lien investor. So all I'm going to do again is look at those comparable sales in your parcel in Arizona, and let's just say the lowest comp is $10,000. So I'm going to divide by four. I'm going to send you an offer for $2,500. Now you accept it. Why? Because for you, $2,500 is better than nothing. In reality, 3 to 5% of people are going to accept my quote unquote top dollar deal. But now that you've accepted it, I have to go through due diligence or in depth research. I have to confirm you still own the property. I have to make sure the back taxes are only $200. I have to make sure there's been no breaks in the chain of title, no liens or encumbrances. And so I fill out this whole big property checklist that my team gets outsourced to. They're located in Jamaica, they're connected to an American title company and costs about 11 bucks. Now, let's say I was investing, say more than $5,000. I would just close traditionally through a title company, but this is only $2,500. I'll take a little bit of risk. We'll assume everything checks out. And now I'm going to sell that property that I just bought from you. 30 days or less. And I'm making cash flow like a rental home. So, Joe, I have a built in best buyer. You know who it is?

[Joe Jensen]

Who?

[Mark Podolski]

The neighbors. The neighbors. So I'm going to send out neighbor letters saying, hey, here's your opportunity. Protect your privacy, protect your view, know your neighbor. So oftentimes the neighbors will buy. Now if they pass, I'll go to my buyers list. The buyers list passes. I go to a website you may have heard of, it's called Meta or Facebook. I sell groups in the marketplace. And then I just go to lands. Landmodo.com, landedfarm.com land.com, lands of america.com, land, flip.com, landhub.com, landcentury.com these are platforms where people buy and sell raw land. But the secret is an appraising. So all I'm going to ask for is a $2,500 down payment for somebody to control that five acre parcel in Arizona that Joe Jensen used to own. Then I'm making a car payment, let's say 329amonth at 9% interest the next 60 months. So it's a one time sale. I'm going to get my money out on the down payment. I could go 6 to 10 months out. Now I'm getting 329amonth and 9% interest for the next 60 months, Joe. No renters, no renovations, no rodents, no headaches. And because I'm not dealing with the tenant, I'm exempt from Dodd Frank, Respond SAFE act, all this owner's real estate legislation. So then it's a simple scalable game. Can I create enough land notes where my passive income exceeds my fixed expenses and then I'm working because I want to, not because I have to.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. What's cool also is you don't have, I mean, you still have property tax, but I guess if you sell it, then it's not even your responsibility to have the property tax. It's the buyer. But either. Then my point was, I was going to say is property taxes is dirt cheap. You know, excuse my literal pun. Right. It's so much cheaper on land than on property. Like in Texas, you know, you. Property taxes on, on homes in Texas is crazy, but on dirt, it's a lot cheaper, you know?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

And then. Yeah, you don't have to have insurance on it either, which another thing I've been buying in Texas lately, and it's like the property insurance. Oh my gosh, Gosh, in Texas is crazy. But if it's just dirt, you don't need to have homeowners insurance. So. So those are some things you avoid, which is super cool. So, so what about though? You know, it's a note, right? So it's five years long, like you said, they're making these payments, but then at the end of the day, that note's paid up. And now, now you've gone all this time and effort and, you know, securing this, finding a buyer, finding them property. Da, da, da. And then in a few years, it's all gone and you're back to square one. So how do you, how do you think about that?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, so I think about it like a passive income machine. So if we break down the model, essentially we're going to pull three levers. We're going to use other people's time, we're going to use software and automation, and we're going to use other people's money. And that's how we're going to scale the business so that it's just a passive income machine. So to your point. Yeah, it's not forever cash necessarily, because at some point that note could pay off. Now what's interesting though, is that those notes typically will default. Let's say, you know, 12% default because we don't do credit checks. So then they've lowered our cost basis and we do it again and extends out our roi. And so I was just talking to one of our land investor clients, John Burnett, and he's been doing this business for over five years. And he, he did the math. He's like, mark, I've made over $250,000 just on default.

[Joe Jensen]

Wow.

[Mark Podolski]

And I mean, so it's, it's kind of crazy. But so essentially then once you have that machine built, so you're automating so much of this business and then on the back end you're automating the, collecting the payments using a software called GeekPay IO. It's a set, forget it note collection system. So everything's automated. So basically the philosophy is we can always make more money, we can't get more time. So how do we make sure that we've got the promise of passive income, which is it solves our money problems, it solves our time problems, and then we have the health and energy to live our best lives in the prime of our life. And so once this is all set up, basically the machine keeps running and so it just keeps running. So I've done it over 6,500 times. I keep doing it. And yeah, it's, you know, I'll get, I'll get someone who pays cash and I'll get someone who pays off their note early. I'll get someone whose note goes to term. But we keep trying to buy and sell every single day. So the goal is a deal a day with this model and just continue doing that.

[Joe Jensen]

Wow, that's really cool. So many questions with this, it seems. So I don't know, how does someone break into that if they wanted to do this for the first time, what's kind of their first two or three steps?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, so I think the first thing is county research. So I mean, Joe, let's face it, like, nobody wakes up and thinks themselves, boy, I'd like some raw land today in Iowa. Unless you live in Iowa. So we want to go and focus on those sunshine states, right? New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona.

[Joe Jensen]

So why the sunshine states?

[Mark Podolski]

Because you have your biggest buyer pool in there. So if you're living in the Northeast or the Midwest, in areas where it's, you don't get sunshine, then those people are going to want invest in an area that, oh, sunshine, fantastic. And there's just a lot of inexpensive rural property that we can buy in those states. So that's really what we want to focus on. Plus we're going to avoid any environmental issues in those states as well. So for example, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. Right. You have to look out for environmental issues. Those states we don't have to, especially when we're going about an hour to three hours from the nearest city. So what you want to really do with your county research is go to a website like landmoto.com and see where are people buying raw land, where is there a market? And so, for example, let's say you and I are going to go out fishing and we see there's one part of the lake, there's 10 boats and they're all catching fish. In the other bit other part of the lake, there's three boats and no one's catching fish. We have to decide are we going to be the fourth boat, are we going to be the 11th boat? Well, logically you think, well, less competition, I'll be the fourth boat. But it's counterintuitive. You want to be the 11th boat. You want to know that that's where people are catching fish. Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

Rather be the 11th boat catching fish than the fourth boat. Not catching fish.

[Mark Podolski]

Exactly.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

So the first thing we want to do is as our county research, we want to know definitively there's a market there based on our budget. Right. So typically you want to buy about five to seven properties when you first start. Well, if you only have, let's say $5,000 to start and that's going to limit you, you know, you're not going to be able to go and do say a 40 acre parcel in Nevada. You might have to start doing half acres in New Mexico. So you have to start looking at your personal budget as well. Of course, now once you get a track record, then you can go out, you can get other people's money. You can always raise debt as well to finance larger deals. So the way the math typically works is for every $100,000 of land that you buy, it's going to throw off about $10,000 a month in passive income in 12 to 18 months, depending on your skill set of buying, selling and market. So that's really where you want to start is where is there a good market, what's my budget, where can I buy five to seven pieces of property? And then you're going to, you're going to move on from there into the next phases of the model.

[Joe Jensen]

That's interesting. And so the, you usually use investor's money and then, so when you're using investors money, do you have to be like, you know, FCC compliant and stuff like that, or how do you partner, how do you structure your partnerships? To give them a return on their money.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. So we have a done for you program with accredited investors only. And so it's a partnership, and so we'll register that as a security. Where if you do a fund, right. That's going to be a little bit different structure.

[Joe Jensen]

Gotcha. So do you actually. Would they just send like an llc? Is that how it's owned? It's just an llc and then you put the investor on the LLC so they actually have ownership in it and then you just give them like a flat return or do you give them like a percentage of the return of the property?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, no, they get 70% of the equity on that property.

[Joe Jensen]

70%?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

Okay, awesome. Gotcha. So they're stoked on that. So they could be getting really high returns compared to what they're used to in the market or even in most syndications or anything like that.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's incredible.

[Joe Jensen]

That's cool. And the really cool thing I think is interesting is there's like, there's very low risk of unseen expenses. Right. I mean, there's the risk of not being able to sell it as fast or not going to be able to get, you know, that, you know, if you did your comps wrong or whatever, but you're not going to have a roof cave in. You know, again, all these issues with real estate that could be like, oh my gosh. Like I think of these syndications where they're like, oh, sorry, capital call, we need all this more money because financing changed or the roof and an issue, or there's just, just, you know, we had termites that we. No one expected. You know, just all these things that can happen with buildings that create these capital calls which, you know, ruin your return. I, I imagine you don't really see as many of those issues with land.

[Mark Podolski]

No, we have none of those issues.

[Joe Jensen]

And are there any special land issues like, oh, we found the dirt poisoned, or like, is there any random things you do run into?

[Mark Podolski]

I mean, you know, if you buy in a super fun site, like what I was talking about, like Ohio, like, you know, there's. You buy next to like a manufacturing facility and they've polluted the land. That's called a Superfund site. You have to go to epa.gov and avoid those. As long as you're avoiding any environmental issues that you would be responsible for, really, there's very little risk in, in, in raw land. Right. Especially with our model. Now, if you're going to go build a home on it, then that's A completely different set of, you know, due diligence pieces.

[Joe Jensen]

So how often do you get stuck with a piece of land, though? You're like, hey, cool, I'm going to buy this and sell it to the neighbor. And then the neighbors are like, you don't want it? And then no one wants that random land. And. And then you're just stuck. You know, you've paid cash for this thing, even though you paid a quarter of what you think it's worth, that's still thousands of dollars, let's say. And then you're just stuck with this. Do you get stuck with it or how do you move it if. If you can't find the buyer, you thought you could?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. It's kind of crazy to say, but after 6,500 land deals, I've never been stuck with a piece of raw land. There's a pig for every. Every barn. They all sell. And the reason they all sell is that, you know, we're buying at 25, 3 cents a dollar. I don't care what asset you buy. You buy any asset 25, 3 cents on a dollar, there's someone else on the other end of that deal.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, and I imagine you're also buying. Right. I don't think you're buying landlocked weird pieces that have no access behind a government building or, you know, something that's, like, useless. Or maybe you do. What. What are your kind of protocols? Like, hey, here's the buy box that we. We avoid this and we make sure we have that so that we can move it.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. I mean, really, Again, they all sell at the right price. So, you know, there's a highest and best use for every piece of property. You could buy swampland for people that want to grow shiitake mushrooms. Now, if I'm buying at 25, 30 cents a dollar, I'll market the shiitake mushroom. You know, growers now, we don't target that, but, you know, for my model, an hour to three hours from the nearest city, raw, undeveloped land that's super affordable as long as you have a job, they sell. Now, in doing due diligence, yeah, if. If the neighbors are dumping, if there's, you know, you can't get to it, it's gated, then sure, we're going to pass on those deals. But oftentimes during due diligence, there's really not too big of an issue. I did a deal when I first started. I screwed up my due diligence. I bought a mountain, basically. So there's. So only 15 acres of it was really accessible. It's a 40 acre parcel. The other 25 acres were just mountain. And so I paid 2500 for it. I remember thinking, oh, I can just break even on this. I'll be happy. So I put it up on ebay at a dollar auction for 10 days, and the first day got bid up to $2,500. By the 10th day, it was at $32,500. And I'm freaking out that I misrepresent it. People can see the maps. It's just a mountain.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

And so I call the winning better. I'm like, you know, I'm just curious. Like, you see, like, you can't really access your land. It's. It's a mountain. It's like, it's perfect. Like, what do you mean? He's like, well, I'm a film director in LA and I want to shoot out there. And this is cheaper than me having to deal with permits with the county and faster. So, I mean, it's kind of crazy, but again, they all sell.

[Joe Jensen]

You sold that on ebay?

[Mark Podolski]

Sold it on ebay.

[Joe Jensen]

Do you still list on ebay with your land?

[Mark Podolski]

No, no, we don't do ebay anymore.

[Joe Jensen]

Why not?

[Mark Podolski]

Well, because there's. It's just not as much of a. Of a market there. And then people end up would, you know, winning the bid and then they don't pay and you're out the ebay fees. It's just more efficient to, to not, you know, sell on ebay. Now, if you want to liquidate, ebay could work, but I don't, I don't teach that anymore.

[Joe Jensen]

Because you like to do. Do you primarily do financing? Then it sounds like you'll buy it at pennies on the dollar and then you like to sell or finance or do you do a lot of just straight cash out or just whatever this buyer wants? You don't care?

[Mark Podolski]

I only want cash flow. I think it's the antidote to financial insecurity. I don't want cash. So cash is great, but it doesn't solve my problem.

[Joe Jensen]

Right, right.

[Mark Podolski]

Cash flow does.

[Joe Jensen]

So that's your goal is to sell or finance it? Yeah, I want to finance it after you get your cash flow. Is those payments one important piece? I want to make sure how you do this, and I assume you don't actually sell the property and put it in the buyer's name. You own it and you take payments until it's fully paid off and then you put it in their name.

[Mark Podolski]

More like a yeah, we use a land contract, a promissory note, and a purchase sale agreement. And they all say the same thing. If you make your payments on time, when you pay off your note, we'll go ahead and deed you the property via warranty deed. If you miss a payment, you're in default and you have 30 days to cure it. After 30 days, we keep your down payment, we keep your monthly payments, and we resell it. There's no cost foreclosure because we still own the underlying asset in a land contract versus a deed of trust. We have to go through the foreclosure process.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. And I just for the listeners, like that is I've done a little bit of seller financing stuff and I've found that is such a vital, vital piece to the puzzle is you don't want to actually put it in the buyer's name because then you lose so much control and so much power in doing. In doing it. It's just a huge pain. But if you retain actual ownership of it and you're just taking payments, then. Then you, it's just so much easier. Like you said, your friend, your. One of your students, whoever made like a quarter million dollars just off of these defaults because then you would get it back and sell it again. Get it back, sell it again. If he had to go foreclose and go through an auction and stuff, he would lose the property and he wouldn't be able to do that again and again and again. But because he actually retained the deed in his name and was just taking virtually what I call like rent to own or lease option payments, you know, a land contract, he was able to do it again and again. And that, that's kind of a key piece to all of this. In, in my eyes.

[Mark Podolski]

No. 100%.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. I recently. I'll just share this, make myself look dumb. I don't know. You know who Pace Morby is?

[Mark Podolski]

Sure, sure.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. He's got this story about selling a truck. Subject to. He's like, he seller finances this truck and takes payments on it because he's able to get way more. I'm like, oh, cool, I'm gonna try that with my car. So I have this old car and instead of just selling it, you know, I just, I did it. I seller financed it. I was like, this is cool. And the guy's like, well, I need the title in my name to be able to get insurance and register it and all that stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah, I didn't think that. I've never sold Cars, you know, I'm like, okay, so we switched the title to his name. He makes one half payment and then disappears.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

And I call the police, hey, this guy stole my car. They're like, no, the title's in his name. He owns it.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

And they go to the court. So I go to the court and say, hey, how do I sue this guy? They're like, well, where do you. Do you know where he lives? You have to serve him. I'm like, I don't know where he lives. He disappeared, like, yeah, then good luck. I'm like, oh, shoot. So, but if I just kept it in my name, you know, and just rented it to him until he had it fully paid off, then I could have called the cops, hey, this is stolen. The title's in my name. They would, you know, put a flag on it. When he gets pulled over. They find on the side of the road, like it's. You know, there's just so many ways to get. Get a solution if you still own it. So anyway, just a personal story I'm kind of in the middle of right now. Luckily, the car was so cheap, I made my money back on it. Three folds. Renting it on Turo before I sold it. But, you know, it wasn't like a big loss, but it was a good learning lesson for sure.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. Nice.

[Joe Jensen]

So what are like the watch outs? What are the beware ofs in your industry of this land flipping financing game?

[Mark Podolski]

I think going in not being educated is a big mistake. And once you get the education, it's pretty simple model. The other big mistake is people get scared. And so they'll start sending out offers. We'll recommend 30 days, you know, offers, 30 a day. Then they'll. They'll buy a piece of property and then they'll stop mailing and stop doing offers because they're like, all right, I'm gonna. I'm not gonna make any more. I'm not gonna buy any more property until this one sells. And then what happens? It sells, and then it's another six to eight weeks before they get more deal flow coming in. So you never wanna stop your deal flow. That's a. That's another big mistake that I see newbies making.

[Joe Jensen]

So how do you find these deals then? You know, you're getting these things for pennies on the dollar. Where are you finding these buyers? I mean, the sellers. Where are you finding sellers?

[Mark Podolski]

So again, we're going to go to the county assessor, we're going to get the list of real property owners. And then that's public information. We're going to scrub that list twice. So the first scrubs are, let's say by use code VL for vacant land. So now we only have vacant land. Then we're going to do one more scrub by APN number, assessor's parcel number by subdivision. Because I wanted to see that I'm sending somebody, you know, I don't want to send somebody with 40 acres the same offer, somebody with 5 acres. That 40 acre person is going to send me back glitter in the mail. So I have to price my list accordingly based on those comps. And then I'll send out those offers and we'll use a, a system called lgpass.com to automate that as well. So we just upload the list into a CSV file and then we can then let's say there's 10,000 property owners we can just budget in that software that automatic mailings of 30 a day. That way I'm not overwhelming myself and my team with due diligence, where, you know, if 3 to 5% for 3 to 5% of people are accepting these offers, I'm going to be, you know, overwhelmed.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. So you talked about your team, maybe expound upon that a little bit. Like, who is your team? How big is your team? You know, is this something people can do on their own or do they need a team? And if so, yeah, what does the team look like?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I mean, you can definitely do it on your own, but then you've created a job for yourself.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

So I don't really recommend it, but I think you, you know, there's a big difference between delegating and abdicating. And so many times I'll see people actually abdicate or they're like, okay, you do it. And so now it's the blind leading the blind. Even though there's, there's trained virtual assistants out there that understand the land business, you still have to manage them. You still have to be the CEO of your land business. So when you build a team, essentially you're going to look at the acquisition side of it and then the disposition side of it and selling. So the acquisition side of it, you're going to need somebody to handle what we call intake, which is if the software is automating your offers going out, then that intake manager is going to be dealing with those sellers. Sometimes the sellers will call you and say, hey, I'm interested in selling. But sometimes they're confused about the offer. Sometimes they just want to yell at you. You don't want to be the person getting yelled at. So you would have that intake manager is a key piece of the puzzle as far as your team there. So they're actually buying the properties on your behalf and maybe even negotiating. And then they're actually doing the paperwork, filing and recording the deeds with the appropriate county and doing that type of paperwork. Now we go to our marketing teams. So we have a virtual assistant who's going to be creating our ads. Now we personally might make the ad template, maybe we'll go to like a chat GPT and create ad templates. We'll have our headlines that we know that works. We have our copy that we know that works. And then we're having our inexpensive virtual assistant just copy pasting in the various marketing platforms that we need. Then it'll go to our sales assistant who will then qualify those leads and then eventually going to sales as well, which I would say you probably, when you first start, you want to. The last two things you want to outsource are county research and sell it. Now, if you hate to sell, okay, maybe you could outsource it if you absolutely hate it or you know, you've got some type of sales phobia. Otherwise I'd recommend get your reps in because you've got to embrace the sock. It's a new business. You're going to suck at it anyways. You might as well get good at it in time.

[Joe Jensen]

So tell me a little bit about your concept of solo economic dependency. Will you explain to the listeners what that means?

[Mark Podolski]

So solo economic dependency means that if you're personally not working, you're not generating any income. So anyone with a job, a solopreneur, pick on rich people. They've solved their money problems, they haven't solved their time problems. Doctors, lawyers, the dentists. Right, so the dentist, celebrities, actors, celebrities, athletes, right? So they, if they're not doing the work, they're not acting, they're not performing, they're not, you know, then they're not generating income. So that's solo economic dependency. So the only way to break out of it is to create this passive income machine. And I don't care. You know, you can do it so many different niches, but I just think mine's, you know, pretty simple to do it.

[Joe Jensen]

So let me ask you this.

[Mark Podolski]

There's all types of ways to do it.

[Joe Jensen]

There. There's so many ways. And that's what I love about real estate. You know, I've been doing this podcast for quite a while, and it's so interesting because, you know, I just keep meeting more and more people doing it this one little different way and this different way, you know, and yours is specific in the way you do it. Why not rent out the land as opposed to making a note and eventually losing the asset? Why don't you buy this land and then rent it out to somebody and then you can have it forever?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I think that's a great adjacent niche to what I do. There's a website called hipcamp.com where they actually assist you in creating these camping sites. You could buy land near, let's say national parks. Right. And then rent that land out because, you know, these people are going, they're going to want to camp or they want to put their RV out there and, and have these, you know, RV properties. For me personally, I just like the simplicity of it. Yeah, I don't want to have to manage anything. I don't want to have to make sure that they're, you know, in code enforcements, that they're, you know, if they're setting fires, all those types of things. I don't want the liability. I don't want the headache of it. I mean, I'm just, Joe, I'm ambitiously lazy. That's it.

[Joe Jensen]

I love that in the title of your book, Ambitiously Lazy. I always thought about my father the same way. I was like, man, nobody and me, and me might do like, I took in his footsteps. I'm like, dad, no one worked harder to be lazy than you. Like, like ambitiously lazy, you know, and it's funny, but it's freedom is being able to do what you want to do with your time. You know what I mean? And I think that. And I like how you've found a way where you're like, hey, here's all the headaches that I don't want to deal with. And so you found a model that you don't have to deal with with the headaches, you know, and there's a downside to it, but there's an upside to it. And you're just like, hey, this works for me. And, and I would encourage everybody when they're trying to figure out their real estate thing, figure out which headaches you're cool with dealing with and which ones you aren't and, and build your system around that. You know, I've, I've yet to get into the rehabbing game. You know, I've done some repairs and stuff, but I've never done full on rehabs, which closes a lot of doors for Me, but that's just a headache I have not chosen to take on yet, you know, and. And you've chosen to take on none of the headaches virtually.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I don't want any headaches. But you know, you could buy the land and go vertical. You could develop it. That's a headache to me.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, but the interesting thing is you are running a business. And so for some they say, well, now that's a headache. You just listed a whole team of people that you have to understand and train and streamline and find better talent when that talent leaves. Like that's a different kind of headache that you're okay taking on.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I mean, you know, really, it's not the person, it's the system and the process. So we have playbooks for every aspect of that business and then just, we just hire an inexpensive virtual assistant to run that playbook. And I've have an acquisition manager who manages that team. I spend about an hour a week in my land investing business. Looking at the numbers, what went well? How many properties are we, you know, did you buy? How many properties did we sell? You know, and then I'll break something. Like, have we thought about this? Like everything's working and then I'll break it. So I'm, I'm really the CEO of that business. I'm not doing the day to day piece of it and I'm not even managing it. I'm more keeping everybody accountable to their, their outcomes.

[Joe Jensen]

So you really only spend an hour to a week on the business?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

Wow, that's really cool. You know, so yeah, when you explain the whole process of a whole team like that, it seems like, oh, that seems like a lot of managing and overseeing and making sure things are going right. You know, a lot of money changing hands and you got to be responsible for. But you, you really only spend a couple. And like you said an hour, you know, I added, I doubled it for you, gave you two a week. So what does your daily rhythm look like?

[Mark Podolski]

So, you know, basically Mondays and Fridays I like to have as my thinking days. Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays will be a theme day. So Tuesdays are typically my podcast day. So I'll record the auto passive income podcast. So Tuesday, Wednesday will be with clients and then Thursdays will be meeting days. Now I have four different companies as well. So, you know, I've got the land investing business, I have my coaching business, and I have two software companies.

[Joe Jensen]

Gosh. So when you say you spend an hour or two on the land, that's just the land side. But then you've got the cause, the clients. Right. Because you're using other people's money to buy this. So those are the clients you're referring to is the people you're raising money with, these partners that you're working with.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, yeah. And we work with everyone along the economic spectrum. So if you've got no money and tons of time, I would give you free information. If you got a good job and you know, you want to get into land business, then we have a done with you program. If you're an accredited investor and you've solved your money problems, you haven't solved your time problems, then we have a done for you program as well. So I'll spend time, you know, working with those people.

[Joe Jensen]

So did you create all these systems? Cause like you say the key to this business stuff is like, is these systems. You have these protocols, SOPs, you know, standard operating procedures. You have it all designed out so you can take a, you know, somebody brand new, throw them in, say hey, do this. And they can just follow the steps and they're good to go. Did you design all this out yourself for the way you run your business?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I had a mentor help me for the first, I want to say seven years. I built a job for myself because I liked it better than investment bank hearing.

[Joe Jensen]

Sure.

[Mark Podolski]

I thought I was doing great. And I met with my buddy and I started telling him what I was doing and he'd sold his company for $365 million. And he's like, Mark, don't insult me. Don't call yourself an entrepreneur. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, you know, an entrepreneur builds something bigger than themselves. He's like, you're doing all the work. Like what happens if you die? What's going to happen to your family? What happens in the so called business? I'm like oh, like what do I do? And I'm like, you know, because that felt like to me, well, I don't have to be in an office, right. No one's telling me what to do. Like, but it's like, no, you still have a job. So then he's going to help me create processes and systems automations so that I had total freedom.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, that's really cool.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

It's funny how there's so many different ways to look at it. Right? You know, I was in commission sales for a long time and when I first got into commission sales was like, holy smokes. Like I, I cracked the Code. I'm not trading my hours for money. I'm trading my skill and effort for money. That's so much better. You know, I have more freedom, flexibility, and if I work harder, I make more. And then I realized after a while, I'm like, but I don't own anything. And I said, I'm solo economic dependent upon my sales skills. Even though that was better than the 9 to 5, it wasn't as much freedom. Then I was like, oh, if I own assets, they make money regardless of what I do. Now I'm getting out of that solo economic dependency, as you phrased it, which I like. But then there's one step even further than that is building a system to manage and acquire even more assets and disposition them in the way you do it as well. And that's the part I haven't personally dialed in yet, is that system and the business side of it. I've always been like, oh, business sounds like a headache. I have to deal with employees, and people are answering to me. I'm like, I just want to be able to disappear for three months and no one cares. But once you've created that system smooth enough, then you can have the best of both worlds.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, no. 100%.

[Joe Jensen]

So how do people learn this from you, Mark? Like, if people are like, dude, like, I listen to this, there's a lot of little moving pieces, but I'm like, I got the taste and the vision. How do they learn more and really get, like, the contracts they need and the training they need and the details to really, you know, build something?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, yeah, we have all of that. I mean, you know what I could do, Joe, if it's okay with you, is I can give you a link, and your listeners can get the book dirt rich for free shipping, and then they can start learning the model and then seeing if this resonates with them or not, and just dip their toe in the water and start there.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. And you have a website people can go to to get a lot of these resources as well, right?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. Thelandgeek.com as well.

[Joe Jensen]

Thelandgeek.com I just. I'm excited for it. I want to dig into it more. I think that for a lot of listeners, and I just want to throw this out, and then we can run into my. Our final four questions and our final points. But you don't. Let's say someone's listening, like, oh, my gosh, 6,500 deals. He's got this whole business, and there's acquisition and sales and marketing and they're like, I don't know if I can do all that. For a lot of people, if they would come in, find 10 properties that they could just turn around and lease out, like you said, it could change their entire lives. Like, you don't have to take over the world. You don't have to build the $300 million business. You don't even have to do what you've done, Mark. It's like. And it could still be hugely impactful. And I think sometimes people think about how big it should air quote, you know, should be that they miss that if, like, hey, if you just dialed in a tiny little percent of this, it could change everything for you.

[Mark Podolski]

No, for sure. I mean, nobody wins a race they don't want to be in. So you have to figure out what is your vision of freedom. And for some people, $2,000 a month of passive income really moves the needle for them. It pays their mortgage, and they don't have to worry about it. For other people, it's $5,000 a month, and it really makes a huge difference in their life. So once we get to that point. Yeah. Then it's just fun. I agree.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. It's just so cool, because I imagine you have more passive income now than when you told your wife, hey, I'm gonna quit my job.

[Mark Podolski]

No, no. I mean, look, I mean, yeah, I've done really well, and that's a cool thing, though. But, yeah, I've solved money problems. I solved time problems, but I still have problems. I mean, you know, but the cool.

[Joe Jensen]

Thing is you just keep growing it. That's cool. Thing is, like, at one point, you know, how much money was it when you went to your wife and said, hey, I think I'm gonna quit this. How much did you built up? You know, before you act, when she's like, no, no, I'll give it 18 more months. Like, when you first.

[Mark Podolski]

I mean, I think it was, like, over a quarter. Quarter million dollars at that point. Yeah. A year. I felt pretty good about it. So. Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

I mean, and then it's cool because it starts at that, but then it's like, okay, well, not yet. And then you waited 18 months, got it a little bigger, and then you got it bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and it just can keep growing. But it's like, for some people, like, say they can start at 2,000amonth, and they're like, okay, well, that's as much as I'm making up my crappy job.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. You just got to figure out what. What's what's enough, right? Yeah. And. And so often we keep moving the goal posts and we'll say, oh, you know, once I get $10,000 a month, then I'll be happy. And then you get there, you're like, well, you know, 20,000 really is like the goal. And so that half life of accomplishing that goal is so short now. And it's just human nature to stick to the discipline of not letting your lifestyle creep.

[Joe Jensen]

So what's your take on that? We could have a whole podcast on this, but we don't have time. But on moving the goalposts, should people have a number and then just stick to it, enjoy their lives, or should they keep moving that goalpost bigger and bigger and bigger? What's your thoughts on that?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I think they should stick to their enough number. How much is enough?

[Joe Jensen]

But have you done that?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I've hit it years and years ago, so now it's just a game. Like, I can. I play the game, and now I'm playing the game as well as I want, but I don't care about that. That's. That's growing.

[Joe Jensen]

You're just not. Because you. You say, oh, hey, I hit the goal post. I'm done. But you didn't finish. You're still playing the game, but you just play it differently now because you're just not as emotionally invested in it, you know?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, it's not. It's not even about me anymore. It's about helping others. So there's a. There's a great book called the Second Mountain. And the first mountain is. Is. Is egoic, which is how I started. Right. I hated my job. It was all about me. So, you know, you go up that first mountain and you do what society tells you to do. You get a good education, you get a good job, and, you know, you have the house and the car and the vacations and the kids. And you get up that mountain, and if you're lucky and you look around, you're like, oh, this is empty. Right? So then you go to the second mountain. The second mountain, which is all about love and relationships. It's. It's about community. It's about your religion, your spirituality, it's about your vocation. And it's a harder mountain to climb, but it's other focused. And so when you're on that second mountain, the. The goalpost, there is no more goalpost. You are just enjoying the journey of that mountain and deepening all your relationships along the way. And spiritually Speaking like the relationship with yourself. But I'd argue that when you don't have that passive income, people are just exhausted and they don't have the time and the energy to really figure out what their deepest purpose is in life. So I think this is a great way to really live your best life. And I think that is, for me, in you. Is it like our metric is freedom?

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

Well, freedom's freedom. It's not a number.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. And on that point, you know, freedom is only as worthwhile as you make it. Right. You know, if you have the freedom and you spend it just scrolling social media all day every day, it probably won't be that fulfilling. You know what I mean? But if you use that freedom to go find that second mountain and climate with that freedom, then. Then it's a lot more worthwhile. And I see people tap into freedom. They don't know what to do with it, and they're just like, this is a waste of time. I'm gonna go back to work.

[Mark Podolski]

And.

[Joe Jensen]

And it's an interesting concept.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm writing a book now called Zen Geek about the mindset and the existential crisis.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

Of striving and being at peace at the same time.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. I want to read that book. Let me know. Let us know when you get that one out, because that's right down my alley. Mark, this is awesome. I'm going to run into our final four questions I like to ask everybody, but do you have any final thoughts or things you want to share with about land investing or about how people can find you or anything? You know, just final thoughts.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I mean, the best place to go is the landgeek.com. i'll have that link for the listeners. They can get dirt rich for free again, just pay for the shipping. And I love the Zig Ziglar quote, which is, if you'll do for the next three to five years what other people won't do, you'll be able to do for the rest of your life what other people can't do. Yeah. But notice it didn't say three to five months. Three to five years, sure. So have that grit.

[Joe Jensen]

I love it, man. All right, well, this is cool. Question number one, Mark. If you could send a text message out to the whole world, Boom. Big text bomb goes out. Everybody's phone goes off, they see a message, they look down. Mark Podolski's got a message for them. What's that text going to read?

[Mark Podolski]

Oh, wow. Text message to the whole world. I don't I first time anyone was asked me this, I. I would say, you know, it's all about love. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I think at the end of our lives we'll ask ourselves two questions. Did I love and was I loved?

[Joe Jensen]

I love that, man. I love that. Question number two, book or podcast recommendation besides anything we're associated with. Yeah, book or podcast recommendation for the listeners.

[Mark Podolski]

Okay. So if you're a fiction reader, my favorite Audible book of all time is Shantaram. I'm listening to the Second Mountain right now. I think it's called the Second Mountain, which is David Gregory Roberts. It's a sequel to Chantrom. These are like 30, 40 hour long audible books.

[Joe Jensen]

Oh, wow.

[Mark Podolski]

Listen to it though, on Audible or wherever. Like, it's like theater.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mark Podolski]

For fiction, I would say that book. For nonfiction, I really Love 4000 Weeks by Oliver Berkman.

[Joe Jensen]

Okay, what's that one about?

[Mark Podolski]

That one's about the crisis that we all have of feeling like we can't do enough. Right. So we're like these finite people and we have infinite number of things we want to do. So think about email, your email inbox. You'll never get it done. Right. It's the Sisyphean problem of pushing up that boulder. You get to the top and then it rolls down.

[Joe Jensen]

Right.

[Mark Podolski]

And so I think the way Oliver Berkman writes about 4,000 weeks and 4,000 weeks is the average lifespan, how you want to spend that time and sort of letting go of that sort of underlying anxiety about, you know, all the things you want to do in life and you're just never going to get to them. I'm never going to get to see all the countries I want to travel to. I'm never going to be able to read all the books I want to listen, I want to read. I'm never going to be able to listen to all the music I want. I can't watch all the movies and just being okay with the choices that you're making in your finite life.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. As I've gotten older, I used to think like, oh, I'm gonna go check off all these things. I can do all the. The things in this category. But yeah, I'm not going to like, which does relieve a lot of pressure. I'm like, I'm not gonna see all of them. So I'll just see what I see. It's okay. Like, it's a. It's fine. I'm not gonna visit all the countries in the world and Even if I did, you know, because there are people that do that, but it's like they didn't visit all the cities in all the countries, you know, it's like you can't, you can't, you can't do it. All right, it's okay. But do something with your time.

[Mark Podolski]

Do something. Yeah, absolutely, do something. But you can't do everything. And so often we. I think we want to do it all.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah. My dad had this quote I loved growing up. He always said, you can have anything you want in life, Joe. You just can't have everything.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

So just pick something. And I like that. All right, question number three. What's the most expensive or interesting mistake you've made in real estate investing?

[Mark Podolski]

Well, I've made million dollar mistakes, so those are very expensive. I think the most interesting one was just not getting a mentor from day one and white knuckling it and thinking I lacked humility. I thought, oh, I can do this. And it wasn't until I met Ori, like, oh, this is way better.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, that's awesome. All right, what's a one word or short phrase to encapsulate why you love real estate investing or land investing? Freedom, baby.

[Mark Podolski]

Let freedom ring.

[Joe Jensen]

I love it. It's what it's all about. Well, this is exciting, man. I'm excited to follow you and I'm excited for your book to come out. I think that's a needed aspect of all of this. So much of it is chase the carrot, accomplish this goal, get the freedom, and then, like I said, know what to do with the freedom, you know, and, and that's an interesting dichotomy to run into to have this thing and then you don't know what to do with it and you may squander it or, or leave it behind and go back and, and anyway, really cool concepts there. I'm excited for. When do you have an idea when that book will be get out?

[Mark Podolski]

I don't, I don't know. I'm. I'm still working on it. I mean, it's probably a year.

[Joe Jensen]

Yeah, it's a process for sure.

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, it's process. Yeah.

[Joe Jensen]

Well, this was great, man. I really appreciate you being on the show. I'm excited for the listeners to check you out. And are you on social media? Is that a good place to follow you as well?

[Mark Podolski]

Yeah, I'm everywhere. I'm at the land Geek, so perfect. You'll find me there.

[Joe Jensen]

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Mark. I'm glad to have you here.

[Mark Podolski]

Thanks, Joe. Appreciate it.

[Joe Jensen]

This is Joe Jensen signing off for the Real Estate Investor Investing School podcast, reminding you to buy dirt.