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Real Estate Investing School Podcast
249. People First, Profit Second with Dave Seymour
00:50:39
Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School Podcast! In this episode, host Joe Jensen interviews Dave Seymour, a former firefighter turned real estate mogul who got his start in the industry during the 2008 crash. Dave shares how financial hardship...
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- [00:00]
Dave Seymour
Multifamily from an investment standpoint, either active or passive really is a strong strategy to hedge against the crazy inflationary environment that we're in right now that we're going to continue to be in.
- [00:16]
Joe Jensen
Welcome to the Real Estate Investing School podcast. I'm your host as always, Joe Jensen. Our guest today is Dave Seymour. Now, Dave is a retired 16 year vet, veteran of the fire service, launched his real estate career during the last market crash. He's rapidly becoming one of the country's top investors. Dave is considered a leading expert in commercial, multifamily and ground up development transactions. He's also been part of the show Flipping Boston that aired on A and E for multiple seasons. Dave's unwavering commitment to success is why investors seek his advice and choose to invest alongside his team at Freedom Venture Investments. So welcome to the show, Dave.
- [01:01]
Dave Seymour
Thanks, man. Appreciate you having me on, Joe.
- [01:04]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, glad to have you here. So you've got your hand in a lot of stuff. You've been doing this, you know, what, a decade and a half and you've done, you know, over a hundred deals. You know, you're not, you're pretty experienced.
- [01:16]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, yeah, we, we started, we started in the, the wholesaling and flipping game coming out of the last recession. Long story. Yeah, long story short, I was working in the fire department, was crushed with a lot of financial challenges. Yeah, that's a, that's a politically correct way of saying I was drowning in debt because I was, I was a, I was a financial illiterate man. I was, you know, given a blue collar, working class background mentality from, from my father. No right or wrong. It's not a moral, you know, it's not a moral.
- [01:52]
Joe Jensen
Just what it is.
- [01:54]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, it just is what it is. You know, my old man was a, was a heating and air conditioning guy and he just used to say to me as a young man, you know, work hard, don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal. Keep your nose down. I'm from England originally, so, you know, we have London accents when I talk about my father. But, you know, I, I was working in the fire service, as you said. They go the fire trucks as we're talking. Right on cue. Way to go. Go get a boy. Stay safe. I'm inspired, man. He's, he's making the, he's making the podcast as good as it can be. But I was working in a fire service and I was working, without exaggeration, job at 120 hours a week, three jobs. Yeah. Trying to make ends meet. But I was working construction and that was the key factor for me was, you know, firefighters tend to work in the trades on their days off. So we're in probably 2006, seven, eight, somewhere around there. And I remember there was a funny story, brother. I'm trying to dig a footing for a deck right in January in Boston. And you got to go down, you got to go down four feet to the frost line. And I was on a four man auger with three of my Guatemalan brothers from another. And it looked like a cartoon, this big white guy spinning around with these three little Spanish guys on an auger. And it was ridiculous, it was comical. The question is, is why was I doing it? I was doing it because I had to make ends meet no matter what. And anyway, there was a car that pulled up on that job site with a couple of very good looking young ladies and a good looking young dude in the car pulled up in a Mercedes. They're wearing high heel shoes. He's wearing a pair of chinos and a Canada goose or whatever the heck he was wearing. And I'm covered in dirt. And it's funny, man. I remember it like it was yesterday. And I know that's kind of a common statement, but for me it's true. Like, I can picture him getting out of the car. I go up to the. The foreman on the job there and I'm like, who's, who's these guys? It's like they're the investors. I go, what, what's an investor? They're the ones who buy the house with a, with the donkeys who fix it up and then they walk away with a big chunk of change. And, you know, we try and make money. So that was, that was the seed was song. And then, you know, I started there. I was a byproduct of the education space, you know, showed up at a seminar.
- [04:27]
Joe Jensen
Okay.
- [04:28]
Dave Seymour
Yeah. Driven by a company by the name of Whitney. Russ Whitney. I don't know. He was like the og. He was. He was before your Kiyosakis and before. Yeah, he was around the time of Cotton Sheets. This is old school, man. This is when they were sending out tapes and CDs, right, to learn how to do real estate. Robert Allen, you know, that, that genre of teacher. But what was interesting, brother, was, you know, there is a school out there, you know, I know, I know you. You're part of that program, right? You're part of that process. Real estate schools, real estate education. And you know, I showed up there and the first Thing that they educated me on was my mind. And I found later on in life that's the most important thing is, is my, my attitude and my mindset towards, towards this real estate game that we play. And you know, I was all in, man. $27,000 in education that I couldn't afford to spend.
- [05:27]
Joe Jensen
No way.
- [05:28]
Dave Seymour
Wow. Yeah, dude.
- [05:29]
Joe Jensen
Yeah. Time.
- [05:31]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, I was, I was in pre foreclosure in my own house. And look, here's, here's the thing, you know. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? Is what, what a guy said to me one time. He said, and if you keep doing the same over and over again, guess what? You're going to get the same results. The definition of insanity, whether you like it or not. Now you can pretend, you know, you can keep your, your big male pride and ego up front and figure it out myself. He said, oh, you get, you get humble, dude. He said, life's gonna, life's gonna teach you a lesson one way or another. And you know, I committed to that. My look, I say it in a, almost in a, in a comical way. You know, it was the end of that three day class and it's. The upsell is 27 grand for five more classes. Learn how to wholesale and flip houses and be in business and blah, blah, blah. And I remember looking at my wife, Mary Beth, and I said to her, what do you think? And she said, well, what do you think? I said, I can't keep trading time for money. I'm out of time. I'm out of time. Mary Beth, she said, do you want to do this? I said, yeah, let's do it. I said, I can't. I can't keep doing what I've been doing. And she said, go get them, killer. She said, I'm proud of you, baby. She said, I love you and I support you. And that was huge for me, man. And I, and I looked at her and I said, I'm glad you said that because it's 27 grand and I got no room on my credit cards. We got to use yours, you know. She became my, my first private lender. But that's where it all started. You know, I, I did, I did some wholesale transactions during the crash. Everybody else was running away from it and I leaned into it, man. I found opportunities in the, in the down market and, you know, we progressed from there. So, yeah, about 15 years now.
- [07:15]
Joe Jensen
That's really cool, man. I mean that, it really is like an inspirational story. I mean, because so many people are deciding like, oh, where you know, where they spend their money. And it's kind of this common thought are going around now that's like, if you don't know where to invest your money, invest it in you, right?
- [07:30]
Dave Seymour
Yeah.
- [07:30]
Joe Jensen
Because you need to increase your education, your inspiration. Like, you need to get to like whatever happened to you over that period is what people need. And, and you took that money and yeah, you could have been investing it in a property you could have been investing in and getting yourself out of pre foreclosure. You could have been living off of it so you didn't have to work so hard. There's a lot of things you could have done with that money, but you put it into education and you put it into inspiration where you could learn and be inspired to be more and do more than what you are currently doing. And it's just cool to hear that and see how well it's obviously worked out for you. I'm sure the road's just been super smooth and just no bumps.
- [08:16]
Dave Seymour
Just put it in fifth gear and put it in autopilot and it was off and running. Not. No, you know what, what, what is interesting is, is this conversation. Obviously I have it often, right? I do quite a few, few podcasts and I have this conversation often. And the more I tell it, the more it becomes, it becomes a story of relativity. And what I mean by that is, is everything is relative, right? You make the commentary. 27,000 is a lot of money. It was, it's a lot of money to a lot of different people. But what I found out was, is I did my first wholesale transaction off of this education and it was a. I controlled a bank, owned property. This is when everything was, you know, wild, wild west. Nobody knew what an REO was, a short sale or long modification. Nobody knew, right? And I control a bank owned property through a realtor. I put it into a trust agreement, I resign as trustee. I put a new trustee in there. That trustee assigns beneficial rights to their entity and they then own the property. And in return for that, I walked away with a check for $5,000. Now one might say five grand, I can spend that on a good dinner in Vegas, right? And I have, but, you know, five grand, somebody might say, but it's again, it's relative. It's not what $5,000 is, it's what it represented for me that time. And it was one of the first, if not the first transactions I did. And I'm standing there on a cold night in Boston, I think it was in October, and I'M looking at this check for five grand and I began thinking to myself, okay, that's five grand towards that 27 in education. But what it represented was a lot more because I purchased $27,000 worth of accountability, which very few people have, right? They want something for fricking nothing all the time. Then I got this check for five grand. I started thinking about how many hours would I have had to trade of my life for somebody else's money to make up that five grand? Or even back then, the fire department, I was only making 200, 250 bucks for a 14 hour night shift. And again, what does that mean? It means I'm 14 hours away from my wife and my children. So how the heck am I going to, am I gone? How am I going to, you know, am I going to get any connection to anything around me? So those moments are instrumental. Yeah, they have, they have a component of inspiration. You use that word a couple of times, you know, inspiration and motivation. And those kinds of things are fleeting. They really, they like a good steak. And we know what happens to a good steak at the end of the end of the process. Right. So it's a fleeting, it's a fleeting component. So for me, I started with a mantra which has helped thousands of my own students along the way, is the fact that implementation is really what it's all about. Education is great, but implement what you learn. And that's what I kind of stuck my flag in, if you will, from that point forward. Because that class that I went to and paid 27,000, there was quite a few others in that room. I'd say there was probably 50 new investors or families of investors that were, you know, going to the market to kill dinosaurs and bring on the bacon. And yet, you know, three months later, I look to my left and my right and I'm like, where did everybody go? Where did they go? So, you know, don't take those decisions lightly. Understand? It's, it's accountability, which is a good thing. It's not a bad word. And then lean into it and take the lumps and bumps as they go. I paid a lot of money for other people's mistakes, but I also made some of my own mistakes along the way as well. And they were just as valuable, if not more valuable, I think, in retrospect. So process, not an event, it's a process. Yeah, yeah.
- [12:14]
Joe Jensen
I mean, I think that's so key is, like I said, the implementation. It's like going out and really doing it. And it's like, you Kind of just need to be in a place where you're really ready to go all in. At least it was for me. Like, I had. I was just like, I had to treat it like my number one priority, all in, you know? And it sounds like you were in that same spot. When a lot of people are curious, they're interested, they're like, oh, that would be cool. But they're not like, no, I. And I don't know what it is about real estate, but it seems like to really get the traction, you just gotta be like, all in for whatever. Whether it's wholesaling or flipping or just long hold or. Or whatever. Whatever you're doing. It's like you gotta just to be. Break the barrier. You gotta just put so much intention and force behind it. At least that's how it seemed for me in so many, you know, look.
- [13:08]
Dave Seymour
Brother, I'm with you 100%. Here's. Here's what I've found in my years of coaching, mentoring, training, et cetera, aside from my real estate business, is that you just said it perfectly. I would stand in front of a room, let's say there's a couple of hundred people in a room, and something as simple as, we got to know your market, right? And they'd say, well, how do you get to learn your market? And I'd say, well, you can talk to realtors, but realtors are a fickle creature. Sometimes they want to deal with a newer investor, sometimes they don't. But what's in your control? And I used to say to him, there are open houses every single weekend in your marketplace. Every single weekend. Go touch the sticks and bricks. That's your new hobby on the weekend is going to every single open house that you can get your hands on. The ugly ones, the pretty ones, the big ones, the small ones. And at every one of those open houses, you have an opportunity to talk to a realtor, to introduce yourself. Don't hide, don't pretend, don't. Don't be something else. Be who you are. I'm a newer investor. I'm checking out products in the marketplace. This is beautiful. Was it a rehab? Was it not a rehab? What do you think it'll sell for? How long has it been on the market? Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. Ask fricking questions. So I'd set that scenario, and you could see the cogs turning over in their brains, right? Because don't forget, you're up front and there's 300 sets of eyes looking at you so you can gauge the room. And without exaggeration, brother, only 10% of that room, you could see that they're like, yeah, I can picture me doing that, you know, the other 70%, like, I don't know. That's going to cut into my watching football in the weekend. That's going to cut into my. Whatever they do on a weekend, golfing, you know, ladies night out, whatever. Right. Like, all of those things were more important than learning that first fundamental. Know your market. So you're absolutely right. Just because somebody wants something, it doesn't mean they're going to go get it. Right. There's a lot of wanters in the world. There's a lot of wishes in the world. There's not a lot of doers and getters. And I know that sounds kind of cheesy, but it really is a reality. And I've seen it. I've seen it firsthand over the years that I've been, as an active investor myself, owned a couple of companies that do it, but also as an educator, watching it fade away and wondering why, Wondering why. What was it that inspired you in the first place to take the action, to invest a couple of bucks in yourself and learn? What was it that got in the way? Were you just a couple of short feet short of gold? Right. What was it? Did you need some camaraderie? Did you need another nudge? What did you need that you didn't get? And unfortunately, I think it comes down to an internal dialogue that people carry from their lives, from their history. Too fat, too thin, too big, too small, too rich, too poor, too black to white. Like everyone's got a fricking excuse. Yeah. Very few people, you know, take responsibility for it. And that's. And that's hard. That's hard to see because, you know, guys like you and I know the results are on the other side. Keep going. Never give up, you know, so it's interesting. I become a study of people, of money rather than real estate today, you know?
- [16:31]
Joe Jensen
Yeah. It's interesting how it turns out like that. Right? So you've done it all, though. So you've, you know, you started with just wholesaling and flipping and. And did you ever get into, like, long hold stuff, building your own portfolio?
- [16:44]
Dave Seymour
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [16:46]
Joe Jensen
When did that transition start?
- [16:48]
Dave Seymour
You know, it's interesting you use that word, transition. I don't know that it's a transition. I don't know that you. Like three weeks ago, I flipped a contract for my 30 grand. That's not my Primary business. Right, right. But I'm not leaving 30 grand on the table.
- [17:06]
Joe Jensen
Right.
- [17:07]
Dave Seymour
When I know how to take it off the table. You know, it was literally a no money down deal. So I don't know that you transition in and out, you expand your tools.
- [17:18]
Joe Jensen
In the toolbox expansion, that's probably better. It's like, oh, now you stop.
- [17:20]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:21]
Joe Jensen
But when did you start adding long hold and what made you want to do that?
- [17:25]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, look, the mock the market will determine the most consistent and profitable strategy that's out there. I would love to, you know, control the market. I can't. The market controls me. So after, you know, 2008, 9, 10, 11, we started to see some normality coming back into the marketplace up here in New England. It was crazy because we had a lot of what they call professional renters who were moving from one property to the next and then getting cash for keys because they knew the house was in foreclosure. It was, it was a crazy, crazy existence. So when that kind of settled down a little bit, there were multif family assets that were at ridiculously low cost basis. I mean three unit, four unit six, 12 unit properties that you could pick up for legitimately 30 to 40 cents on the dollar of what they were refinanced for during the, you know, the scam that Wall street pulled off. So at that period of time, it know, it makes sense to buy. So we picked up, I think we were shy of about 150 doors, worked a relationship with a business partner where he had the systems and the operations to manage these assets, lease them up. We did it in a tougher neighborhood. I would say it was a D D neighborhood, C property, D neighborhoods. You get some scars, man. You learn, you learn some stuff in those environments. Yeah, but we, we ended up doing them no money down because I put in the original money down, use my tax returns, get it into a local bank's portfolio, cash out, refi, and then cash flow increase noi. So that was super profitable. We did that for about the next four or five years, liquidated that, and then moved into, you know, the bigger stuff that we're doing today with the larger multifamily assets and portfolio acquisitions. So, you know, there's a transition there. But again, if I can buy a four unit property for the right price and it cash flows, if I can make 250, 300 a door, I'm gonna buy it. And if I don't have the money, I'm going to figure out how to buy it with your Money. It's not, you know, when you do, when you do, when you do that one time, whatever that is, whatever that, that, you know, strategy is that you use in real estate, land, banking, note buying, buy, rent, refinance, redo it again, you know, all the, all the jargon that's out there today. When you do that strategy and execute that strategy successfully one time, it builds the most magical feeling inside you as an investor, which is confidence. Confidence to do it again. Right. And to no longer listen to the outside forces that say you can't. That check, by the way, for five grand, that first one, I called it a shut up check. And I took it to everybody, my boys in the firehouse, you know, family, friends, and I showed them the check and I just, you know, they said, you can't do it. I went, shut up. Look at that. You know, that's my shut up check. So I love that it changes the way you operate. But, yeah, we were in the. We're in the buy and hold space for a while there, and from there we actually transitioned into lending, scaled into the lending business. That was interesting working with a lot of.
- [20:45]
Joe Jensen
You put like a team together. You got partners or, like, how did that.
- [20:48]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, I, I'm not as. I, I don't want to be the smartest guy in any room.
- [20:54]
Joe Jensen
Okay.
- [20:54]
Dave Seymour
I don't. I don't want to be the smartest guy in any room. So I, I think the, the true test of a CEO or a business person is to learn the power of delegation and bring the skill sets that I, as an individual don't have, bring that to the table through others, and then compensate them. Well, everybody's got to feel great about going to work every day. Right? Everybody's got to feel like a winner. So, yeah, it's always been a we for me. Partnerships, alliances, joint ventures, you know, whatever. Whatever the right structure is to make it a success for everybody is what I've always attempted to do, for sure.
- [21:35]
Joe Jensen
So how does one go from kind of. I think a lot of people listen to this are probably more one man shows they're doing their own thing, you know, and then I've, you know, I interview people like you and like, oh, I've got this team. I've got, you know, all these people working for me doing this is how does one go from the solo guy to being able to pay well, a team of people who are smarter than them. Like, how's that gap? You know what I mean? Like, how does one jump to that pixie dust?
- [22:01]
Dave Seymour
I find pixie dust, a magic word. That's a great question, brother. It really is. You know, I'd have to reverse engineer and unpack that. There's a couple of factors in there. First of all, looking in the mirror and being honest with yourself. And what I mean by that is it's not easy to look in the mirror and say, you know, I'm a detriment to my own business because of this, whatever this is. Am I a micromanager? Am I, you know, am I overly detail oriented? Do I spend too. Does, does everything I do take too long? For example, whatever your, your deficit is to the business, own it and identify it and document it. I mean, write it down like I write a list probably once a month. Dave's doing well in these areas. He sucks. He's. He's a donkey in these areas. Dave the donkey showed up here, here, here and here, right? And then own that. Own it. Don't beat yourself up over it, but own it. But what that then does is, is it then gives me clarity on who I need to be in this relationship to be in this business structure. You know, details make me ill. I hate spreadsheets, and I'm in finance and I hate spreadsheets. But my business partner is 30 years old, stolen from Fidelity, practically a quant in the way that his brain works. Um, so he's my guy. Well, bring him in as an equal partner. Finding large commercial assets in, in southwest Florida, one of the hottest markets in the country. Well, I don't live in southwest Florida. I'm in Boston. So I go into my network again, I find, you know, the, the, the, the men and, or women that I trust and I point to them and I say, okay, well, that person has a, has a track record of finding very good deals, commercial deals in Southwest fl. Let's bring him in as well. So I've got, you know, the quant, the chief operations officer. And this works in any business and you've got to want it too. If you're just a one man band and you're happy, then stay. God bless you. Right? But if you want that expansion and you want those challenges, then that's how I've done it. And then I find that next guy and I say, okay, well, you come in as a partner as well. So everybody's partnered on there. Well, what does Dave do? Well, you know, Dave is, you know, he's iron man. He puts the team together. You know, he's just, you know, puts that, puts that team together. And then, you know, the vocal piece of the business, raising the capital, interacting. You get me on a podcast, you don't get the other guys. You know, some of my team members would be like watching paint dry on a podcast. They wouldn't know. You know, they wouldn't know. You got it. You got to work hard to stop me from talking. So it's experience, due diligence, identifying your own deficit and being prepared to ask for help and a lot. I think one of the biggest problems that a lot of transitioning entrepreneurs have is they don't ask for help. They think they're all that in a bag of chips and they got all the answers. Or they can Google it or watch a YouTube video that'll fix me. You know, it takes some maturity to put a team together. So that's the best way I would answer that. That's a good question, though. That's a really good question. Thank you.
- [25:24]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, no, I like that. I appreciate your answer. I want to dig into it even a little bit deeper. So when you're putting this team together, you mentioned, hey, I'm going to bring him in as a partner, I'm going to bring them in as a partner. So that way you. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're not paying them a salary. You don't have the money to pay them a salary. When you're starting, you say, hey, we're in this together. And so I'm not going to pay you, but you're going to get a big piece of the upside and you're going to get a big piece of the upside. And so that's the way that the average person who maybe has some experience has been doing well, but doesn't have the big team to take down the big stuff, could step into that world, say, hey, your acquisition guy is a partner. Your, your, your numbers guy, your CEO, like you said, the, the off operations guy, he's a partner. You don't just have to hire that out because you can't afford to hire it out, but if you partner with them, then they're basically paid on commission, just like you. They actually have ownership. Is that what you're saying? That I interpret that.
- [26:23]
Dave Seymour
No. 100%. 100%. I also preface this whole thing was saying everybody's got to be excited about coming to work.
- [26:30]
Joe Jensen
Yeah.
- [26:31]
Dave Seymour
Let's be frank, right. It's hard to keep employees excited about coming to work. If that employee, and I've had employees as well, if that employee is, you know, only excited on Friday at 5 o' clock when they see a direct deposit, they're not excited about the challenges they face during the week. And what's the fricking point? I've been an employee. I'm all good. You know what I mean? So attracting entrepreneurs to your business for equal opportunity takes some time, takes some due diligence. But at the same time, they've got to be excited about you, not just you excited about them. Right? There's no if you, if you, you know, if you're driving this, this bus with ego, you know, and the big I am, and we know who they are, especially in the education space. We see these, these clowns out there with their, you know, private jets and their Rolls Royces and all of that stuff. It's garbage. It's bs. Good business is done through mutual respect, motivation, compensation, creation. You know, I could, I could, I could do a rap song about this bad boy. But, you know, if. If they're excited about being around me and me around them, then figure it out. You know, figure out the digits, figure out the responsibilities. And if it's a younger partner coming in, maybe you put them on a small, small spiff, a small salary, you know, plus, plus the ownership in the business. Um, so, you know, those things, those things take time and I'd love to tell you they were all successful. I'd be a liar. You know, I've had great relationships and I've had, I've had some challenging ones too, so. But yeah, definitely not. I'm not looking for employees. I'm looking for partners.
- [28:17]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, that's cool. And like I said, because then everybody has the buy in, so. So answer me this. I've been, you know, a lot of people, it seems like, you know, you get into real estate, maybe you're wholesaling, you're maybe house hacking, you know, doing these little things. And then at the other end of. Seems like the most successful, a lot of them end up running some sort of multifamily commercial development stuff. You know, a lot of times there'll be a value add aspect to that. Why does everybody end up in the multifamily, you know, fund space? Is. Is that the goal? Is that the golden ticket? What's it like on the other end once you're there? Is that where we should be headed? Why does everybody end up there? And what's it like once you're there?
- [29:04]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, they're all following me, Joe. That's why they all end up there. What's Dave Seymour doing? Let's copy him. That was an ego comment. If Ever I heard about. David, stop it. Okay, I will. You know, that's. That's also pretty, pretty insightful to see that because I watch it as well, right? I watch. I watch my peers in the investment space. I watch my peers in the education space. And it interests me to see that they're all teaching you how to raise money and how to put a fund together and multifamily academy this and multifamily mindset that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there are more zeros. I was. I was trained in the education space by a multifamily guy here in Massachusetts. And, you know, he became a friend over the years and he said to me, you know, the multifamily space is just more zeros going in and more zeros going out. And again, it sets for me, right? I can only speak for myself. It sets a. Not a barrier, but it sets a benchmark, if you will, for where I want to be and if I don't want to work as hard as I have to on single families, which is a job, right? If you buy a house, fix a house, sell a house, it's a job. It's a good paying job, but it's still a job. How can I put myself in a position where there is a portfolio? And the way it was described to me by this guy, he said, you want to put yourself in a position where everybody else within the organization, and he's referring to tenants get up and go to work every day, they trade their time for money and then they pay you, right, For. For the privilege of being in your beautiful properties. He said, let them go out and do that. Again, not moral, you know, not good guy, bad guy, smart guy, dumb guy, just different guy. He said, if you can put yourself in that position and then there's, you know, and it gets cheesy at times. They talk about that mailbox money, right? The money that just drops in the mailbox while you're sleeping at night. And that is attractive. And I think that ends up being more attractive the older you get. I had a lot more energy for swinging a hammer and roofing a house when I was in my 30s than I do now in my 50s. So multifamily, from an investment standpoint, either active or passive, really is a strong strategy to hedge against the crazy inflationary environment that we're in right now that we're going to continue to be in, at least for the next 18 to 24 months, as far as I'm concerned. You know, how. How are you going to compete with that? Well, somebody else has to be working to give you, to give you money. That's, that's really, that's really the bottom line on it. So I think that essence itself attracts people to learn how to do it. It also attracts people to actually do it. Be an active multifamily investor. 4, 8, 10, 12, 50 units, whatever your number is. And then you know, once you get that again, confidence and comfort level, then you know you're raising other people's money, you're raising retirement account money, you're raising, you know, self directed retirements, you're raising multi high net worth individuals, doctors, lawyers, blah blah, blah, who are busting their butt, you know, serving the community and they're looking for, for capital growth as well because it's hard to find velocity of capital in the market right now. I mean we're recording this on what, March 12th and the stock market has not been a pretty place to hang out in for the past few days. So you know, if you want to keep riding that roller coaster, that's one thing. If you want the consistency and the solidity of passive cash flow from, from commercial real estate, then people get attracted to this. But it takes a little time. But I think those are some of.
- [32:56]
Joe Jensen
The reasons why you mentioned earlier that the, the market will con, will determine your strategy. And what's that makes the most sense. What is the best strategy right now.
- [33:10]
Dave Seymour
In today's protection, Protection of wealth. We're going to get kicked in the gonads and it's going to hurt. It's coming. So when you start looking at the signs that are out there, you know, this change of administration, no matter what side of the fence you're on or side of the aisle you're on, this change in administration is addressing, you know, this, this nation's debt. It's addressing its imbalance financially. You know, if they're using a sledgehammer when they should be using a scalpel, I don't know that's a debate that we could have outside of, outside of this particular podcast. But there is knock on effect for all of that stuff. And that knock on effect frightens and scares the market. So when the market gets frightened and scared, capital looks for a place to weather the storm. And capital has consistently over the past 120 years, has consistently weathered the storm in, in sticks and bricks, in multifamily assets, self storage assets, light industrial assets. I'm not putting money in malls, I'm not putting money in office spaces. We know the challenges that they face. But if I can put those guys in there, right, put my dollar soldiers into that asset and it can sit there and work with some kind of velocity preferred rates of return anywhere between 8 and 10%, knowing that there's an equity multiple so that we ride out the recession, we ride out the chaos, we ride out the inflation, and we come out of these assets maybe three to five years out, maybe a little longer. Now it's probably more like a seven year exit strategy, but we come out of there seven years from now with a principal equity multiple of 2 1/2 to 3x. I'd like to see how that's done compared to what the stock market is going to do over the next three to five years as it goes through its transition period. And it's nothing new, brother. That's what's interesting. It's like everyone's an expert. Experts are born out of retrospect looking back. Right. Rather than introspection looking in or future forecasting. You learn from past to predict present and future. So that's the strategy as far as I'm concerned, protection of wealth. We're not looking for massive growth right now. We're not looking for massive returns, quick cash. We're looking for, I call it the Clydesdale of real estate investing. Right. Slow and steady, baby. Keep plodding forward. We're going to be okay, you know, and that's what I see working.
- [35:56]
Joe Jensen
Nice. I like that.
- [35:58]
Dave Seymour
Cool.
- [35:58]
Joe Jensen
I want to roll into some of our final four questions where we have some time for you to answer them as much as you'd like. But before I do that, people want to learn more about what you do and, and, you know, follow you and keep in touch. What's the best way for them to do that?
- [36:13]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, Legacy alliance is multifamily information brand that we've launched. Put a lot of work and effort into it. And the reason that we do that at Legacy alliance is because an educated investor always becomes a better partner. Right. So if I can teach you how to do this business at a high level, then if you choose to invest capital in what we do, you're at least way up the education gradient. Our actual investment firm is freedomventure.com freedomventure.com you can find me on LinkedIn. It's usually the best place to just Google my name on LinkedIn. Dave Seymour. Or you can go old school and call the office. 781-922-4418. I probably won't be the person answering the phone, but you know, if you've got questions. You can. You can find us for sure.
- [37:07]
Joe Jensen
That's cool, man. If you could send out a text message and everybody in the world is going to receive that text message, what's it going to say?
- [37:18]
Dave Seymour
Faith over fear. That's what it's going to say. Nice and simple, brother. Faith over fear. Fear is a thief. Faith is growth. God is good. It's okay. Just keep going. I mean, I could. I got many texts I could say I could send. I actually have it tattooed on my arm in Latin. Rapone timorum meum confide. I don't know if you can see it on the camera. It's a tattoo. It's something that me. It's tangible for me.
- [37:46]
Joe Jensen
What does that mean?
- [37:48]
Dave Seymour
Reponi timorum confiti means replace my fear with faith. Let me be somebody who is looking again. It sounds corny, but it's like, you know, Henry Ford. Those that believe they can't, and those that believe they can, they're both right, Pony. Tomorrow may. I'm confiding faith first, brother. Lean in. It's got to be okay.
- [38:11]
Joe Jensen
It's gonna be funny. The listeners, it's like, oh, that's easy for Dave to say because he's on top of the ladder, you know, and it's like, you know, when. But you weren't when you were going to that wholesale class and putting, you know, 20 grand on your wife's credit card. But it was that mindset then that led you to get to where you're at now, not vice versa. You didn't add that mindset after the fact.
- [38:36]
Dave Seymour
That's right. That's right. No, look, I learned. I think I said, when we were talking about it, the first thing that I learned was how to fix my mind. You know, my optionality, my choices going forward. So, yeah, faith over fear. Every day, pray for it. God is good.
- [38:54]
Joe Jensen
I love it. Besides, anything that we're associated with, what's a good book or podcast recommendation?
- [39:02]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, I. Some people laugh. I'm a. I'm a believer, man. I was a convert to the Law of Attraction by Rhonda Byrne. That led me to Jack Canfield, who was the author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, and he wrote a couple of business development and personal development books, Seven Secrets of Success, Principles of Success. And it just made a lot of sense to me, the. The way it was structured. So, you know, what you. What a man thinketh, so he becometh. It's biblical, right? What you think about, you bring about. So anything that. Anything that can challenge my negative Mind through input, right through. Through learning, through those thought processes. I like to. I like to get involved with that. So that's a couple of good books right there.
- [40:01]
Joe Jensen
I love it. I love it. Jack Canfield. Check out his stuff. Yeah, lots.
- [40:06]
Dave Seymour
I actually went to his house, Joe. I went to his house. I hung out with him. Yeah. So I'll make it. I'll make it brief because I know time's tight for all of us.
- [40:14]
Joe Jensen
We got time.
- [40:16]
Dave Seymour
I'm sitting in a firehouse early in my education. I've gone from the secret. I'm learning real estate, and I land on Jack Canfield. And I'm like, okay, we'll see if this is real. And I put it out in the universe that one day I'd meet Jack Canfield. And I just kept that intention out there. I would say two years after that, we were doing the TV show Flipping Boston. So now I'm recognized. I'm asked to go speak at conventions, blah, blah, blah. And I was at a convention somewhere and lady comes up afterwards and she said, hey, I really enjoyed your presentation. You know, I love your content. I love the way you deliver it. You're funny, you're engaging. She said, I just want to give you a pat on the back. I'm like, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I said, and what do you do? She goes, I work for a guy by the name of Jack Canfield. I'm his personal assistant.
- [41:03]
Joe Jensen
No.
- [41:05]
Dave Seymour
Yeah. I'm like, are you me? She said. So I said to her, I said, does Jack do any personal one on one coaching? She said, he hasn't done that in years. She said, he'll make an exception for exceptional people. I said, well, congratulations. I'm exceptional. And, you know, I spent. I spent 20 grand, 20 grand to go hang out with Jack for a day. Flew out to his house in, in Cali. And it was funny, man. He. He's a cool dude. I go into his living room area and he says, ah, you know, my assistant says, you're xyz. He says, what can I do for you? And I looked at it, dude. I started balling like a baby. I go. I go, nothing, Jack, you already did it, dude. It's already done. I said, this is just the manifestation of the intent. And we just hung out and told a couple of stories that day. And it was. It was well worth it. It was awesome. It was awesome. Jack Canfield. Great book, great guy. Simple, nice delivery. Absorb it.
- [42:04]
Joe Jensen
Yeah, it's funny. There's so much good stuff out there, you know, you can spend 20 grand on a conference and you can spend, you know, five or ten grand on a course, and you can spend 15 bucks on a book, you know.
- [42:18]
Dave Seymour
Yeah.
- [42:19]
Joe Jensen
And each of them can bring a 10x return or 100 extra turn, depending on how you show up to them and what you do with it. Like you said, you know, you know, the implementation is, is so important and I think it's fun. In today's world of content access, it's so hard to know where to lean in. You know, everybody's a mentor, everybody's an expert. There's so much information out there and everybody's regurgitating the thing that they regurgitated from a guy. Regurgitated it from a guy, you know, and it's just like. And it's not that it's bad info, it's actually good. That's the confusing part.
- [42:56]
Dave Seymour
Right, right.
- [42:57]
Joe Jensen
But I feel like back in the day, I just remember, you know, and I'm. I'm younger than you, you know, I turned 40 this year and. But I remember having this old Jim Rohn CD that my dad.
- [43:09]
Dave Seymour
My man. Yes.
- [43:11]
Joe Jensen
Yeah. And. But I couldn't find that stuff. I remember I was going to my first sales job. I was driving a truck across the country, and I was just as listening to this CD of how to like, be successful and look at the world and. And it was the only thing I had like that. And I just grasped onto that and just listened to it on repeat and, and held on to those principles and it was just so important. Now I'm bombarded with that same content ish 247 and it almost like, I can't let it stick to me, you.
- [43:42]
Dave Seymour
Know, it almost devalues, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.
- [43:45]
Joe Jensen
You know, and you have that jack books and you. Sounds like, I mean, you clung to it, you embraced it, you made it a part of your identity. And it's like, I don't know how this generation or, you know, the new people are first hitting that can, can do the same. But, you know, it's, it's just interesting, the dynamics, how they've shifted because it's so much easier to access this, this, this content than ever before.
- [44:12]
Dave Seymour
And here's the other thing too, Joe. Everybody's an expert, brother. Everybody's an expert. Doesn't matter what their results are. I'm an expert. Why? Because I say so on YouTube. Come on, man. Come on. Really? You know, I would, I would speak at a conference or whatever. Personal development, real estate, didn't matter. I'd Speak at a conferen conference. And, you know, this youth would come up afterwards at the. The event. Young man, young woman, whatever, Right. They'd come up and they'd be like, I want to. I want to be. I want to be a speaker like you. How do I do that? I say live a life. You got to go live a life first. Yes. You're young. Yes. You've got big dreams. What's your value in the marketplace? Bring that in so that you have a story to tell, you have a history that you can. You can share. Not to say that you can't be young and influential, but if you look at, you know, Instagram and TikTok and the. That's out there today, you know, the. The influences of youth maybe aren't carrying the same quality of message. I'm sorry, that. That you and I could carry with. With a little bit of experience. So anyway, no soapbox, I promise.
- [45:27]
Joe Jensen
No, absolutely. It's an interesting world, you know, we're in right now. I want to get to question three. This one's always a fun one for me. What's one of the most expensive or interesting mistakes or failures that you've had in real estate investing?
- [45:44]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, that's always a good one, too. Well, the early days, it was something as simple as not understanding the true cost of a septic system. It really was. It was actually an episode of the TV show that was legitimately. It was bad, man. We went from like a maybe 80% profit margin down to a 30% profit margin because of the cost of engineering and construction and everything else for a septic system ended up being like a $50,000 faux pas. But today, the mistakes that I make today that are financially important, impactful to the negative is. And it's my own naivety or whatever you want to call it, but I just wish people would say and do the same thing, right? If you say you're in and committed and you're going to commit capital to the deal, I don't care whether you do or don't. I care whether you're truthful or not. Right. I'm going to find money, whether it's yours or somebody else's. But don't take that position and not follow through, because then you get into places where, you know, maybe we've deployed our own capital as earnest money, and then you don't get the rest of the equity position in place. That can be millions of dollars worth of financial issue. So that stuff hurts, that smarts. Makes you a little jaded towards People used to always have everybody at 100 and they'd lose points. Now I got to start them at about 25 and earn points instead to get up there. You know what I mean? I'm still not at zero with the human race, but I'm probably closer to 25 or 30% start point today.
- [47:31]
Joe Jensen
I have a. I do a lot of landlording myself, and it's like, man, yeah, sure. First I was like, oh, I could just trust these tenants and give them a bit of doubt. Now, like I said, it's like, the more you do, the less you can trust at the beginning.
- [47:46]
Dave Seymour
Yeah, nobody, nobody will care more about your real estate and your investors than you do, Period.
- [47:57]
Joe Jensen
Well, and the biggest thing I've learned with this concept of, you know, trusting people is whether they don't follow through out of intent or neglect. Either way, they didn't follow through. And a lot of people, I've actually found very rarely is anybody intentionally manipulating or trying to screw you. And it does happen. There are people. I did have a guy recently that was supposed to be like a kind of a manager for me, and he was just a scam artist. You know, total.
- [48:28]
Dave Seymour
Just, like, history.
- [48:29]
Joe Jensen
Like, it was crazy when I found everything out. You know, that's very rare. Most people have good intentions, but they don't live their lives in a way to be able to follow through with their intentions. Sure, they want to pay rent, but their car broke down, their dog died, and they. And then they don't have a life where they've balanced it to be able to do both. They want to invest in the fund, but then something else came up and they're not in a position to do both. And. And it's interesting because either way, if. If they don't do what they say, you're. You're getting hurt.
- [48:59]
Dave Seymour
Yeah.
- [48:59]
Joe Jensen
And it's not. I guess my point is, I've learned it's not about the integrity of the person necessarily. If, like, oh, is this guy seem like he's honest in the moment? He is being honest. But is he living a life in a way that he'll be able to fulfill it either way?
- [49:13]
Dave Seymour
You know, it's interesting. It's the same old story. Execution, right? Execution is always the hardest part. Perception and reality don't necessarily always jive with the execution. So, yeah, I'm with you, brother. I'm with you.
- [49:28]
Joe Jensen
Well, what's one word or short phrase encapsulate why you love real estate investing so much?
- [49:37]
Dave Seymour
People first, profit second. That's why I like real estate. I can do really good works for people. I can employ contractors. I can feed investors. I can change neighborhoods. I say I can, we can. Right? It's definitely a team effort, but that's what I like about it. I like to put people first and the profit second. And what's interesting is the profits tend to follow that mentality anyway, so, yeah, that's how I'd answer that one.
- [50:07]
Joe Jensen
I love it, man. Well, this has been so awesome. I really appreciate your time. This has been fun to be a part of and. And pick your brain. Obviously, we could do 20 more hours of this stuff and not run out of steam, but we'll let you get back to your life and. And we'll let the listeners get back to theirs. But thanks for being on the show.
- [50:23]
Dave Seymour
Awesome. Thanks, Joe. Take care, man.
- [50:26]
Joe Jensen
This is Joe Jensen signing off for the Real Estate Investment School podcast, reminding you that implementation is the name of the game.