How I Spent My $36K Home Renovation Budget for the Highest Rents

Summary

Podcast Summary: Real Estate Rookie – Episode: "How I Spent My $36K Home Renovation Budget for the Highest Rents"

Release Date: January 15, 2025

Hosts: Ashley Kehr and Tony J. Robinson

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Introduction

In the latest episode of Real Estate Rookie, Ashley Kehr and Tony J. Robinson delve into the real-time journey of rookie real estate investor, Renee Hosman. Unlike typical episodes where investors discuss their experiences post-investment, this episode offers listeners an authentic, in-progress look at Renee's renovation project. The focus is on how Renee managed a $36,000 renovation budget to maximize rental income, providing invaluable insights for first-time and budding investors.

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Renee’s Investment Portfolio and Acquisition of the Property

Renee begins by outlining her existing real estate portfolio, emphasizing her strategic approach to property acquisition within her residential building.

• Renee Hosman [01:24]:
  "This is a property across the hall from my very first property that I bought to live in, that I was doing a house hack in. It's a two-bedroom, one bath condo... I purchased the property for $190,000 using a hard money lender to match the original cash offer required by the seller."

Key Points:

• Renee acquired the condo through a first right of refusal clause in her building's agreement.
• Utilized a hard money lender to meet the cash stipulation of the probate-sale contract.

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Renovation Timeline and Completion

The discussion progresses to the renovation phase, highlighting the timeline and Renee's ability to stay on schedule.

• Renee Hosman [02:45]:
  "We're completed with the rehab now... My original deadline was January 15th, three months, and we were able to complete it pretty much by New Year's... I was still working on furnishing it to be fully up and running by the 15th."

• Tony J. Robinson [05:04]:
  "Giving yourself enough time up front is actually one of the biggest hacks that you can leverage."

Key Points:

• Scheduled Completion: Initial three-month deadline achieved by early January.
• Furnishing Deadline: Ongoing, targeted for full functionality by January 15th.
• Time Management: Importance of allocating sufficient time to avoid delays.

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Budgeting and Cost Overruns

Renee discusses her budgeting strategy and the factors that led to exceeding her initial renovation budget.

• Renee Hosman [07:07]:
  "My initial rehab budget was around $30,100, but we ended up spending about $36,000... unexpected work like rewiring the entire electrical system and emergency plumbing repairs caused us to go over budget by $6,000."

Key Points:

• Initial Budget: Approximately $30,100 with a 15% buffer.
• Final Expenditure: $36,000 due to unforeseen electrical and plumbing issues.
• Major Overages: Rewiring costs ($2,600) and emergency plumbing repairs ($4,000).

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Unexpected Challenges: Electrical and Plumbing Issues

The episode delves into the specific unexpected challenges Renee faced during the renovation.

Electrical Issues:

• Renee Hosman [07:07]:
  "I had to rewire the entire electrical system, costing about $2,600... needed grounding and a 220V outlet for the oven."

Plumbing Emergencies:

• Renee Hosman [09:19]:
  "Two days before Christmas, we had a steam pipe burst causing a major leak... resulting in a flood in the master bedroom garage area."

Impact:

• Delays: Emergency plumbing repairs significantly disrupted the renovation schedule.
• Additional Costs: Emergency measures and renting dehumidification equipment added approximately $4,000.

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Managing the Rehab Project

Renee shares her hands-on approach to managing the renovation, including procurement and coordination with contractors.

• Renee Hosman [24:01]:
  "I made a list, went to Home Depot with it, and kept track meticulously. Over the last three months, I only went to Home Depot 23 times."

Key Points:

• Hands-On Management: Balanced DIY tasks with contractor responsibilities.
• Material Procurement: Utilized task-based procurement and limited unnecessary trips to supply stores.
• Contractor Coordination: Effective communication with contractors to manage tasks and material needs.

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Financing the Renovation

The discussion moves to the financial strategies Renee employed to fund her renovation.

• Renee Hosman [30:47]:
  "Everything has been out of pocket. I took out a HELOC as a buffer and used a zero-percent interest credit card for specific project expenses."

Key Points:

• Primary Funding: Personal funds supplemented by a HELOC (Home Equity Line of Credit).
• Credit Strategy: Utilized a credit card with zero percent interest to manage short-term expenses and earn an opening bonus.
• Financial Discipline: Maintained segregated accounts and specific credit cards for project-related expenses to streamline tracking.

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Reflections and Lessons Learned

Renee reflects on her experiences, highlighting the balance between DIY efforts and professional assistance.

• Renee Hosman [03:51]:
  "I was my own worst enemy, doing too much DIY... in hindsight, hiring more professionals could have expedited the process despite higher upfront costs."

• Tony J. Robinson [15:09]:
  "There is no right or wrong answer... it's about aligning choices with your risk tolerance."

Key Points:

• Balancing Act: The trade-off between saving money through DIY and the potential for delays or errors.
• Learning Curve: Gained valuable insights into project management, budgeting, and the importance of contingency planning.
• Emotional Resilience: Managed stress and maintained composure despite unexpected setbacks.

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Current Status and Next Steps

As the renovation concludes, Renee discusses the current status of the property and her plans moving forward.

• Renee Hosman [40:22]:
  "I’m in the process of refinancing due to a lower-than-expected appraisal... aiming to pull out enough to pay off the hard money lender while maintaining positive cash flow."

• Financial Outcomes:

  • Rental Income: Secured a lease for $2,050 per month.
  • Cash Flow: Approximately $150 monthly after debt service and HOA fees.
  • Refinancing Goals: Negotiating terms to allow for a low-cost refinance in the summer to capitalize on potential market improvements.

Key Points:

• Refinancing Efforts: Addressing appraisal discrepancies to secure favorable refinancing terms.
• Cash Flow Management: Ensuring rental income covers expenses and provides a modest profit.
• Future Planning: Strategizing for potential refinancing to optimize financial outcomes.

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Conclusion

This episode of Real Estate Rookie offers an in-depth, real-time look into the complexities of managing a renovation project as a new investor. Renee Hosman's journey underscores the importance of budgeting, flexibility, and the willingness to learn from unexpected challenges. Her experience serves as a valuable roadmap for rookies aiming to navigate their first real estate investments with resilience and strategic foresight.

Final Thoughts:

• Budgeting with Buffers: Always allocate a contingency to handle unforeseen expenses.
• Project Management: Establish clear timelines and milestones to stay on track.
• Professional vs. DIY: Weigh the benefits of DIY against the efficiency of hiring professionals based on project scope and personal capacity.
• Financial Strategy: Diversify funding sources and maintain disciplined financial tracking for project expenses.

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For more insights and updates on Renee’s real estate journey, listeners can connect with her on the BiggerPockets forums under the username Renee Hosman, visit her learning resource at biggerpockets.com/learningtodiy, or follow her on Instagram at @earningtodiy.

Transcript

[Ashley Kerr]

Hey, rookies. Normally investors who come on the podcast share their personal journey of real estate investing. But it's usually after they've experienced their highs and lows, which is totally incredible value. But what if we learn together in real time? Today we're bringing on Renee Hosman, the community manager and rookie real estate investor here at BiggerPockets. This is part two. We had Renee on to talk about how she acquired this unit. So if you want to check that out, that's episode 477. But today we're going to hear how the renovations are going, if they finished on time, and if she went over budget. All of this is valuable if you are looking to do your first flip or maybe even your next flip in 2025. This is the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. I'm Ashley Kerr and I'm here with Tony J. Robinson.

[Tony J. Robinson]

Tony. And welcome to the podcast where every week, three times a week, we bring you the inspiration, motivation and stories you need to hear to kickstart your investing journey. So welcome back to the Ricky Podcast, Renee Hosman.

[Renee Hosman]

Thanks for having me.

[Ashley Kerr]

Okay, so Renee, we kind of left off last time with you talking about how you acquired this deal, but why don't you just give us a quick rundown, real quick of your overall portfolio in case someone hasn't listened to that episode and. And then catch us up on this deal.

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah, absolutely. So this is a property across the hall from my very first property that I bought to live in, that I was doing a house hack in. It's a two bedroom, one bath condo. It's the exact same layout as my other investment properties because they're all in the same building and so they all have the same footprint, which is pretty nice. And yeah, I got this one. It was on the market, on the public market, on the MLS being sold through a, like a probate court situation because the previous owner had passed away. And then our building has a first right of refusal clause, so I was able to exercise my first right of refusal, which means that I just had. They had another offer from someone else and I just had to match that offer. And then the sellers were required to sell to me. So that's how I purchased the property. I got it for 190,000 and I used a hard money lender in order to purchase it because part of the matching of the original contract was that the original contract was for cash. And so having a hard money lender allowed me to match that stipulation and not have to go a traditional financing route.

[Ashley Kerr]

So when we kind of left off last time you were about to start the rehab on this property. So how did the rehab go?

[Renee Hosman]

So we're completed with the rehab now, which is so crazy. My original deadline that I gave to the public was January 15th. That was like three months. So we were able to complete it pretty much by New Year's. We were still doing a couple little baseboards and some touch ups here and there. Since this is a midterm rental, I'm still working on hitting my deadline of having it like fully up and running by the 15th because I have to finish furnishing it. But yeah, I was able to get it done on time. I think secretly inside I had been hoping that I was able to get it done by mid December so that I could have something around and available for rental by the holidays. But that's okay. This was my true deadline for myself was the 15th, and so we made it to there.

[Ashley Kerr]

Renee, what are some of the things that you did that you think maybe kind of accounted for you being able to finish your rehab on time? Like what? What are some tips and tricks that kind of set you apart from maybe another investor that's not hitting those timelines?

[Renee Hosman]

You know, actually, I think in this case, Ashley, I was probably my own worst enemy in terms of I was so convinced that I wanted to do a lot of this DIY and really get my hands dirty and learn a lot that I actually think we could have been done faster had I just hired out a few more things. And when I look back on it, I think that making sure that I had a more set timeline of when the project would be done in terms of, like, very specific project deadlines. I had essentially set that I wanted the bathroom to be done first because we needed to have a functioning bathroom. It's just way easier to work on a remodel when you have somewhere for people to use the restroom when you're there. And so I think that I could have potentially done a lot better about setting those very specific project milestones, and that would have helped me out. That being said, I think that the thing that allowed me to finish on time based on my original expectation was that I gave myself enough time.

[Ashley Kerr]

That's a great point.

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah. I had talked to my. My hard money lender has been actually a really great resource for me. And he was saying that, you know, that he thought three months would be plenty of time for me to do it, because professional flippers, they can get condos done in three weeks. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that is that is not me, that is not within my wheelhouse to do, but that I, having gone through this, I totally understand why people do it that quickly and why it's a lot faster to pay professionals to do things quickly. Because I thought that I was saving money by doing a lot of things myself. And when I really calculated it out at the end, because of my holding costs, which I was paying about $78 a day, if you just look at how much I was paying for my, for my hard money interest only loan. And I, I probably could have done things a little bit faster had I just bit the bullet a little ahead of time and planned to have some other people come and help me rather than trying to DIY it myself. I don't regret that, but it is a lesson that I learned.

[Tony J. Robinson]

Renee, you make a really good point of like, I was on time because I just gave myself enough time. Like, it sounds super simplistic, but I think a lot of people don't do that. And we actually have a flip that we're, that we have listed right now. And we listed like right before the holidays. And I figured it was, it was kind of going to sit. And Sarah, my wife, she's a little bit more anxious about these things. She's like, oh my God, we haven't gotten any offers yet. Like, you know, she'll be freaking out yet. It's like, babe, it's all right. Like, I, I underwrote that we would be holding this thing for eight months. Our rehab took two of those months. We got six months before, you know, in order for us to disposition this property and still meet our, our timeframe. So I think just as a rookie investor, giving yourself enough time up front is actually one of the biggest hacks that you can, you can leverage. Now, you came in on time, which is one piece of the equation. But the other piece, Rene, is the budget. So what was your initial rehab budget for this?

[Renee Hosman]

For this project, I'd have to go back to my other spreadsheet to look at what I originally budgeted. I believe that with my kind of 15% overage that I budgeted for myself, it was somewhere around like three 30,100 ish dollars. We came in about 36 so on time, over budget. And a lot of that was just unexpected work that we, I could not have necessarily predicted, but that happened. One of them was that I wound up having to rewire the entire electrical. So that was about 2,600 bucks that I did not plan on spending. I planned on updating some wiring and adding some lighting and, you know, just moving some outlets. But I did not plan on having to do like a full electrical upgrade. So that was one of them. The second one is that on the 23rd. So a couple days before Christmas, we were over there working, and there's these old radiant heat units. They're not baseboard heating. They're a little different, but they work pretty similar. Hot water runs through them. There's a fish fan that blows that hot air into the room. And these units are up on the wall underneath all of the windows. In order to put in the flooring, which I did all of the flooring myself, in order to put in the flooring and get it flush underneath that unit, I had to trim out some of the old baseboard. And because the baseboard was kind of tucked under there, and I was working on one room, my friend was working on the other room. And I hear and steam, because it's not even like hot water. It is like steam, and hot water is like hissing coming out of this wall unit. Unfortunately, the entire building, all eight units are connected to the same system. So there's not a way to just turn off the heat and water for that one unit. We had to do it for the entire building.

[Ashley Kerr]

Oh, my gosh.

[Renee Hosman]

And it was 8pm again, two days before Christmas. So we had to call an emergency plumber. And the only thing that it's a highly pressurized system. So the plumber had to come out. They turned off the pressure and turned off the pump. But we had to wait hours for it to, like, release all of the pressure through this little tiny pinprick hole that we had cut. And it caused like a major flood in the master bedroom that, thank goodness no one lives below this unit because it just dripped right into this unit's garage parking space. But that was a pretty big delay and took a lot more money and time than I was anticipating. So even without those two things, like, without those two things, I would have come in. It would have been really, really close to my $30,000 budget. I probably would have come in around 31,000. But with those two unexpected emergencies, well, the electrical wasn't an emergency, but unexpected expenses. We came in about 6,000 over budget.

[Ashley Kerr]

We're going to get more into Renee's rehab and how she rebounded from a pipe bursting in her rehab. To get back on track. Starting February 11th, we're kicking off this awesome eight week series that's going to completely change how you think about real estate investing in 2025.

[Tony J. Robinson]

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[Ashley Kerr]

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[Tony J. Robinson]

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[Ashley Kerr]

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[Tony J. Robinson]

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[Tony J. Robinson]

Sharing the, you know, the, the challenges with the budgeting piece, Renee. And I'm, I want to go back to the, you know, to the first part of that budgeting piece. But I just want to touch on the, the, this radiator heater issue. What was the actual cost for that piece like, like how much did you actually spend have to to mediate that specific problem?

[Renee Hosman]

Well, we are still waiting on the final, the, the building plumbing because we have to use like the building license, bonded insurance plumbing people. I couldn't just call on my own person and they had to come in and fix it in two stages. So we're still waiting on the second bill, but that came in around with all of the delays and then having to rent all of the equipment to like dehumidify everything. That came in around $4,000 and there's.

[Tony J. Robinson]

Still another bill potentially on the way.

[Renee Hosman]

Yes, I've already estimated that one to be $2,000 and that is included in my 36 that I've, that I have ended at so far. If it comes in over $2,000, then that will be an additional charge. But I've estimated that that second plumbing bill is going to be somewhere around $2,000.

[Tony J. Robinson]

So then here's the question, right? It was a $4,000 kind of unexpected expense because you guys were diying some of the work. So let me ask, like, knowing what you now know, is there anything that you would have done differently or do you still feel like, hey, it was the best option for us to DIY at least that portion of the job?

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah, I think that that mistake could have happened to anyone, regardless of whether or not they were professional. That being said, if I had hired a professional, maybe I wouldn't have had to pay that bill, but I probably would have had to do some like negotiating with a contractor or handyman or whatever. I think it was an expensive lesson, but if I could go back and change it, I wouldn't. It was such a weird fluke that I think more so than the money, it was just the emotional stress and it took on me that week was more than anything else. And regardless of who would have done it, that emotional stress would have still been there. Like at the end of the day, the $4,000 sucks, but it's a cost that I can afford because I bit off as much as I could chew and like, you know, made choices that were aligned with my risk tolerance. So I'm not sure that I would change doing that portion DIY in order to potentially avoid the $4,000, because I still think it would have stressed me out no matter what.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And that's fine, right? Because there is no right or wrong answer. I'm just curious for the rookies that are listening, like, is that the path to go down now? The other expense you mentioned was rewiring the entire unit. I've never personally had to rewire an entire home. We've done some electrical work. Obviously as we've renovated properties. I've never had to like rewire everything. So I, I ash, have you ever had to fully rewire a unit? And if so, what was the reason? And was it something that you may be caught during your due diligence or did it also pop up after you close in the property?

[Ashley Kerr]

Yeah, so the first time we had to do it, it was a whole house. It was a four bedroom, two bath house. And that one, we were so young and naive into our investing journey that we bought it. It was during COVID We bought it for I think $27,000. And like, like this house, we ended up selling it for like 160,000 as is without doing, you know, that much due diligence. And we ended up basically gutting the whole house. And we got really, really lucky. We, first of all, got electric bids to rewire the whole house, and they were like $40,000 from, like, electrical companies. And the person that I partnered with, he reached out to a friend who knew the retired electrical inspector of the town, and he said he took jobs once in a while, and this was very close to his house, and he would do it, and I think it cost us 10 grand instead of 40 grand. And he would, like, show us how to do stuff. He'd be like, you know, wiring a house is so easy. You just run the wires through and everything. And so we got super lucky on that deal because we could have had a $40,000 bill. I think with electric and even any vendors or anything is getting multiple estimates and talking to different people and also not. And we say this a lot with, like, lenders and, you know, all different people, but even with contractors, not tell them specifically what you want done. Like, I need this whole rewired. But, like, tell them, like, can you come in and look at this and see what you can do? And maybe they will give you that cheaper option as, like, yeah, I can save you a lot of money by actually doing it this way. Which is still up to code. It's not anything illegal. So I think make sure that you are getting multiple estimates. And also not saying specifically, I want you to do this, like, it's important in your scope of work. But if you don't know for sure that that's the best route or, you know, even if it seems like the most expensive, ask your contractors. Then you built your contract with your scope of work from there.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And then, Renee, for you, like, what. What was it that made you realize you had to rewire the entire house? And what was your process for, like, getting quotes on that piece?

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah. So luckily, it's just a condo, and it was just this one unit that not all of the units have. Some of them have upgraded electrical. Some of them do not. The building itself does have upgraded electrical. All of the meters are up to date, everything like that. So thank goodness it wasn't the entire building. It was just essentially the sub panel within the condo unit that needed to be updated. And I knew that there was from the inspection. I knew that there were some wiring things that were going to need to be fixed. I did wind up, overall, the electrical upgrades cost me about $2,600. I did spend 800 of that on just getting a new electrical panel. And I made that choice because I do plan on holding this as a brrrr. And so it felt like that if there was this thing that I could kick the can down the road. There's less than a thousand dollars to just get it fixed now and I don't have to worry about it. It just felt like a good choice to just do that. Then luckily the actual rewiring because some things needed to add grounds too. I needed to add a 220 plug for an oven. There's a lot of things I don't really understand about electric. And I added recessed lighting. But luckily, because we were doing drywall work already, it was actually not very expensive to have all of that done because a lot of the cost of the electrical. Like Ashley said, running the wires is pretty easy, but having to put everything back together or take it apart to begin with can be really expensive. So I was able to get that done in a timely manner. Um, in terms of how I got it quoted because it was a little last minute. I actually just found one person that was a referral from someone else that I know in my network and like support system here in Denver. I, from the months of October through December, was going to this like in person accountability group for real estate investors here in Denver. And I just piped up one day and said, hey, I need an electrician. And someone recommended someone awesome. The price seemed very reasonable to me and they said they could get it fixed the next day. And I was like, good.

[Ashley Kerr]

So before you even had these things come up, these kind of change orders that you weren't expected, how did you actually go and build out to your budget? I mean, were you just saying like, okay, I think plumbing will be ten grand, electric will be five grand. Walk us through that kind of process as to how you're building out the scope of work and actually estimating what those costs are going to be.

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah. So luckily I am. I think being familiar with your geographical area is important. Luckily since I live in this area and I'm doing a live in flip, I will not say that I am an expert by any means, but I did have some ballpark ideas of what things might cost. Just having done some other remodel projects, not of this scope before, but little things off and on like having a washer hooked up or things like that. So I kind of had that. I also read the Estimating Rehab budget book from Biggerpockets, so I referenced that a lot. And then the other two resources that I used were the Biggerpockets forums. There's a lot of good questions and answers on there. And again, it really depends on your geographical region. But I think we talked about this in the last episode. If I could see that someone said they got quoted X amount in San Francisco and they got quoted Y amount in Louisiana, then I knew I'd probably fall somewhere in between there and then. The fourth resource that I used was I would just go on TaskRabbit and I would see, like, how much do. How much are people charging for hourly projects of this size with this kind of scope that have good reviews? That was kind of just another good gut check for how much I thought things might cost.

[Tony J. Robinson]

I love that approach of, like, using TaskRabbit to quote out pricing. I've never thought about doing that before, but I love that. I love that idea. Now, the. The budget and the. The scope of work is. Is one piece. But once you've got that in place, you still gotta actually manage this project. And I know for a lot of new rookies, Rene, one of the places where they get kind of caught up is the purchasing and delivering of materials to the job site. So how do you handle that for this rehab?

[Renee Hosman]

So the bathroom was completely taken care of by my handyman contractor, so I didn't have to worry too much about that. I did purchase the tile because I had very specific tile that I wanted, and I purchased the vanity. But in terms of, like, the drywall and I don't even know what other materials went into that bathroom. The insulation, everything else. My contractor did a lot of that for me and would just check in about like, hey, do you want black or chrome finishes? Do you want this or that? So he was really good at communicating about that. I fit a lot in my suv. A lot. So much. There was only. There's only been one time. This whole flip that I had to rent a U Haul. Otherwise, I've been able to. Since I was diying it, I knew what I would need for the next day. I would make a list. I would, you know, do my regular day job, and then I would go to Home Depot with my list and go back. I kept track. And I'm actually very impressed with myself. Over the last three months, I only went to Home Depot 23 times, which sounds like a lot. But I was fully like, if anyone's ever done a home project, there's always one thing that you forget. And I was really impressed that I was not going. Every single, single day.

[Ashley Kerr]

We have to take the final ad break, but stick around for more when we're back.

[D]

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[Tony J. Robinson]

All right, thanks so much for sticking with us. I could go to Home Depot 23 times in one day trying to do something around the house, you know, so over the course of a project, it's actually pretty solid. So like I know for me in our rehabs, if it's like, like design finishes, we typically order that ourselves. So if we're talking about like the vanities, the, you know, the, the finishes for the kitchen, like anything like the flooring, the tile, light fixtures, probably light fixtures, we order all of those and we just ship them directly to the project site most of the time. Sometimes we do have to deliver, but vast majority we just deliver to the job site. And then anything like what you mentioned, like all the stuff that goes into putting a bathroom together from a technical standpoint, our contractor just goes to Home Depot. We've got a Home Depot whatever, professional account, whatever it is, and they just check out and then it still bills our cart. So the contractors can't go off and buy a bunch of stuff that they need for themselves. Right? It's really just stuff for the project we get to validate and improve before they make that purchase. That's made it easier for us to make sure that we don't have to keep like running materials to the job site because we want to try and control costs. Ash, do you how do you do it for your rehabs?

[Ashley Kerr]

Yeah, most of the time I just give my contractor my credit card and say, here you go. And then he saves me an envelope of all the receipts and then I have my assistant enter all the receipts into QuickBooks. But I definitely think that takes some level of trust there. But, yeah, I like that way because I get the credit card, the points. I'm not getting upcharged on any of the material cost, I guess, along with the lines of, you know, paying for it, building your budget. How are you actually paying for the rehab? Was this cash out of pocket? Was this. Were you using a 0% interest credit card? What are some of the ways that you've paid for rehab projects?

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah. So so far, everything has been out of pocket. I did, right at the beginning of this, take out a HELOC on my primary, just so that I had that as a buffer and emergency plan. I haven't had to draw on it yet. I did also take out a credit card specifically for this project just because they had an opening bonus and it was zero percent for six months, so.

[Ashley Kerr]

And easy tracking, too, just knowing, like, every expense on that credit card is for that property.

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I've really tried to do my best on every expense. There's some things that, like my contractors and people that I'm paying with checks and everything, but that's coming out of one specific bank account. So, yes, I did get a credit card specifically for this project that does have zero percent interest, but I have been paying it in cash. And again, I just got that mostly because of the opening bonus. And then I had my HELOC there as a buffer, which we're coming very close to that buffer. So once we get everything furnished, we'll see. But so far I've been able to pay for it in cash.

[Ashley Kerr]

Tell us a little bit about the heloc. What was the process to get that? What's your interest rate on it? How are you drawing the money from it when you need it?

[Renee Hosman]

I have not drawn the money yet, but as far as I understand, all I have to do is just go into the bank branch and I can just have the money transferred from my HELOC into my personal account that I have with that bank. But I'll let you know when I actually wind up using it. It was significantly easier than a normal mortgage, even though it is a similar process to a normal mortgage in terms of they're doing a credit check on you, they're doing, you know, employment, like income verification. They did an Appraisal, but it was like a drive by appraisal. So they didn't actually have to come in. They just looked at pictures online, I guess and found comps in the neighborhood. It was all done online. I don't know if they actually drove by my place or if that's what they just call it, but it did take about three weeks. It was. In terms of like mortgage and refinancing, I would say the HELOC was pretty painless. I did go through my local bank that I have a really good relationship with because I do like to keep more of my business accounts with them just so that I have that kind of rapport and relationship. And I have a really great banker over there. The interest rate is like floating based on prime. So right now I think I'm looking at something about like eight to eight and a half percent if I were to draw on that. But it would depend.

[Tony J. Robinson]

You did mention that it, that you've got a good relationship with your bank. Sorry, did you mention what bank is it? Is it a, like a large.

[Renee Hosman]

Yes. So I use a local bank. They're. They're local to the Rocky Mountain region. They're called Vectra. I know that they're in like Utah and Colorado. I don't, I don't know where else they are.

[Tony J. Robinson]

But yeah, I was hoping that's what you say, you know, because, you know, Ash and I talk about the power of having a small local regional bank and you're kind of Rolodex as people, because I've never heard anyone say, I've got a really good relationship with my banker down at Chase or like at bank of America. Like, it just doesn't happen as often. So the beauty of the local regional banks, I think speaks to the volumes of what you just shared, is just.

[Renee Hosman]

Being able to call. And my banker's name is John. And so whatever teller answers the phone, I say, hey, it's Renee. Is John available? And he knows it's me and he'll get things done for me. And there's, you know, not as much of the hassle of like, of just going through like the online system of your bank. And whatever I need to do, he'll get it done. And that's awesome.

[Ashley Kerr]

Yeah, I have a similar situation with the bank that actually gave me my first loan on an investment property. And actually it was like a duplex that I had done with a partner and we had bought cash for it, then refinanced with this bank. And so I've used them for A lot of stuff. And recently, for one property, we needed to move my partner off of the loan. We have a residential mortgage on a property, and we were taking him off the loan. And instead of me going and refinancing and putting new debt into my name, we were able to just email the bank and say, hey, would it be okay if Ashley stayed on the loan? And we removed him from the loan and we just kept the loan the same. So they asked for, like, my most recent tax return and I think my tax returns for my businesses. And they emailed, like, two days later and said, like, okay, sounds good. What day can you come in and sign? And so I'm going tomorrow and I'm signing and he's getting off the loan, and then I'll just be on the loan myself. So it was just, like, so easy, so convenient, where, like, the reason we're doing is because he's getting a loan on another property and he wanted to decrease his debt to income. So we, the other lender was like, well, you can refinance with us. Like, why don't you go see if they'll refinance and everything? And so this is, like, way cheaper. I want to pay closing costs. I get to keep the lower interest rate. And it's going to happen, like, so quickly that he can still close on his other. That he's trying to do. And so I think, like, you got to think outside of the box sometimes, too, because, like, this was definitely not something that they recommended. Like, oh, why don't you do this? Like, this was something we had to brainstorm on our own to, like, get creative. But that's. These small local banks are so open to these creative things. And then, plus, they're not losing me. Like, there was the chance that I could go and refinance somewhere else, too, where the loan is staying in house with them, too, actually.

[Tony J. Robinson]

What a phenomenal example of, like, the creativity that you can get working with some of these local and regional banks. I love that story, Renee. I guess going back really quickly because you. You mentioned that you want to midterm rent this, this listing, or this property. Where are you at with, like, the. The furnishing perspective? And I can just kind of walk through, like, what's next for this unit. Like, it sounds like you got to get it designed. Are you doing this yourself or are you diying the design? Did you hire a designer? Walk us through that piece.

[Renee Hosman]

I am diying the design, but I have some really good friends with good eyes for design and Pinterest.

[Ashley Kerr]

Is very helpful.

[Renee Hosman]

So I have been acquiring kind of furniture pieces throughout this process. Just mostly when I saw something really great pop up on Facebook marketplace, I just got like the most amazing, like mid century modern. It's like a seven foot tall, like arch lamp that's green. And I got it for like $50 on Facebook marketplace a couple weeks ago. I was like, I don't even have a place to keep this. I'm just gonna put it in my garage for right now. But I'm so excited to eventually put this in my rental. So, yeah, I've been keeping an eye out on Facebook marketplace for really good deals, really great finds, which is just kind of like a fun thing for me to do. I don't necessarily recommend that for everyone, but it's something that I actually enjoy doing. We have all of the furnishing in place. There's a storage unit down below in the basement of the condo building. So all of the furnishings have been, that I've been collecting, have been staying down there. And the only thing I have left to furnish is the guest bedroom. I just signed a lease with someone and I was waiting to figure out who I was signing a lease with and what they wanted. I figured eventually I would have to put in a bed and blackout curtains and all of that stuff. That's kind of typical for a midterm rental into the second bedroom. But I wasn't going to spend my money and time trying to find those things until I got confirmation from whoever my first renter was that they actually cared about those things. Because sometimes with midterm renters, you know, you like this. These people who are moving in, they're a couple. One of them works remote from home, One of them is a travel nurse. And so originally I was like, oh, well that's great. We can just make the second bedroom an office. So they did confirm that they, they might have some guests over the next couple of months. So I am making it an office, but adding a bed. But that's the, that's the last thing I have to furnish it with other than that. Just kind of standard for midterm rentals. I always do blackout curtains for the bedrooms. King size bed in the. What is the master in this unit? Guest bed in the second. Kind of basic living room furniture, you know, couch, coffee table, all of that good stuff. Stuff I'd always do, like some kind of smart TV or like a TV with a chrome stick so that people can log into Netflix because I don't actually pay for cable. They just Have.

[Ashley Kerr]

Does anybody?

[Renee Hosman]

No one. No one's ever requested it.

[Tony J. Robinson]

I actually do pay for cable, like, at my. Like at my primary residence. And the only reason I do is because I'm a big Lakers fan, and the only way I can get the Lakers games currently is if I have cable. So I'm. I'm beholden to cable for as long as the Lakers are stuck with them. But for folks that are interested, because Renee did Mission midterm rentals. We recently interviewed Jesse vasquez back on episode 497, so 4, 9, 7, and he did a phenomenal breakdown on his acquisition strategy for midterm rentals. He even had the strategy where he was, like, driving for dollars but for midterm rentals, which I'd never heard before. So anyway, episode 497, if you're looking for some inspiration on setting up your own midterm rental, like Renee.

[Ashley Kerr]

So I guess the last piece of this, Rene, is what did you sign a lease for? And what do the numbers kind of look like on this property?

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah, so I'm still in the process of refinancing my appraisal for this property. I don't know kind of how this got bungled, but we. They did have an appraisal come, but I wasn't done yet, so I thought that was kind of weird. And the appraisal came back way lower than I was expecting. I was hoping for it to be like 240, especially because my unit across the hall that I just got the HELOC on, like three months ago came back at 240. This appraisal only came back at 215, which was shocking to me. So I'm still working on the refinancing piece, but I think that we're going to be able to appraise at least 240. A big thing there was just, like, standing up for yourself. Like they. The company that I was. That I'm looking at refinancing through, they're like, well, we can still do this, but you have to come with this amount to close. Then I was like, wait, hold on. How is it possible that a unit that is not nearly as nice, that does not have in unit washer, dryer that was not just recently renovated, like 60 days ago, came back at a 240 minimum. Whereas it. Whereas this one came back at 215, and I'm gonna rent it for more and it's way nicer. So I'm still going through that process right now, but I think that there's a Very good chance that I will be able to appraise for at least 240 now, which is fine. That's all I needed to be able to pull the money back out that I needed to pay off my hard money lender. And that's all I really cared about. It would have been nice to be able to pull out some of the money that I put into the property too, but given current interest rates, I'm happy to just, just take the cash flow. But I think that the worst case scenario right now is that I will refinance and I have to put a little bit more money in in order to pay off my hard money lender. That is like absolute worst case scenario, which is fine because again, I bit off as much as I could chew. That's my risk tolerance. I, I can do that and be okay. What I think will actually likely happen is that I'll be able to pull out exactly as much as I need to pay off my hard money lender. And what I'm negotiating right now with my refinance lender is that if that's the course of action that we take, I'd like to be able to have the option to do essentially like a no cost or low cost refinance come the summertime. So that's something I'm negotiating with them because they are kind of a smaller private. Well, I don't know if they would, if they would be like a private lender, but they're a mortgage broker of sorts. And so I essentially, because I shopped around, I told them that if I was going to continue to do this refinance with them, that those would be the terms that I would need so that if interest rates go down next summer or if I, or if I can get the condo to appraise for more in the summertime, which I think is more likely than trying to apply praise things over Christmas that I have the option to do either a no cost or a very low cost refinance to be able to change my, my rate and terms. So I'm working on them with that right now. But as of right now, still in my hard money loan for at least the next couple of weeks. I rented out the place for $2,050 a month. So even if I get like the highest end of the interest rates that I'm looking at right now, which are like the low eights, I, that covers all of my debt service, all of my HOA and gives me about $150.

[Ashley Kerr]

Worth of cash flow, I'm still Like amazed at the negotiating with the mortgage broker. That is such a great strategy of like, I'm going to do this loan with you now, but I want the option to refinance in the summer for little or no cost. Like I think that is such a great, like idea to do.

[Renee Hosman]

It's a slow time in the market. So the comps that they used for my October, like heloc, they used comps that had sold between like April and September. Basically the comps that they used for my when they evaluated this new property that again, they wasn't even fully done when they came to see it were, were things that had sold like they had those same comps from April through September and then they had two additional comps that had sold in December within like the last couple of weeks. But. And those sold for super, super low, unsurprisingly. But that's because people who have to sell in December when interest rates are high, like, need to sell. So of course the prices are going to be lower. So I'm hoping that I'll be able to get better rates and terms in the summertime. And worst case scenario is that I can, you know, I'll take my $150 cash flow and the fact that, you know, I still have my other two units in the building and I'll have good tenants and I will have learned.

[Ashley Kerr]

A lot of lessons and you'll have mortgage pay down on the property and you'll have some equity or appreciation in the property too to build equity too. Well, Renee, thank you so much for coming on again and sharing your real estate investing journey with this condo. We've really appreciated you kind of going through the step by step process so that a rookie investor can kind of follow and also learn from what you've experienced and what you did. So thank you so much. And Renee, where can people reach out to you and find out more information about you?

[Renee Hosman]

Yeah, you can find me on the BiggerPockets forums if you look at my name, Renee Hosman or you go to biggerpockets.com learningto to DIY and then my Instagram handle is also the same. Earningtodiy.

[Tony J. Robinson]

And when I spell your last name, for folks that maybe may not know.

[Renee Hosman]

My name is spelled R E N E and my last name is H O S as in Sam M A.

[Ashley Kerr]

N. Thank you so much.

[Renee Hosman]

Thanks for having me.

[Ashley Kerr]

I'm Ashley and he's Tony and this has been an episode of Real Estate Rook. We'll see you guys next time.