← Real Estate Rookie
Real Estate Rookie
Making $2,400/Month Cash Flow and Getting Rich Slowly with “Boring” Rentals
00:43:04
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- [00:00]
Ashley Career
With the market feeling so uncertain these days, one of the best strategies to deal with it is boring investing.
- [00:08]
Tony J. Robinson
It feels kind of amazing to accumulate a lot of assets in a short amount of time. But for the average investor, buying slow and holding can be the best path to financial freedom.
- [00:22]
Ashley Career
This is the Real Estate Rookie podcast and I'm Ashley Career.
- [00:26]
Tony J. Robinson
And I'm Tony J. Robinson. And today we have a rookie who pursued what he calls a boring investing strategy that turned his life into a life changing amount of equity and cash flow.
- [00:35]
Ashley Career
Anthony, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
- [00:39]
Anthony Finger
Thanks, Ashley. Thanks, Tony. It's a pleasure to be here. Longtime listener. You know, biggerpocket's original podcast and you guys spun off to all these different ones and yeah, I've enjoyed, I've consumed all the content and just really honored to be here. So thank you.
- [00:52]
Ashley Career
Well, we are very excited to have you on. So we learned a little bit about you and you actually did a lot of learning and education about stock market investing. And you kind of during this time saw the potential of how long term rentals could accelerate your financial wealth. So can you start off with telling us maybe share a little on your outlook and how you bought your first rookie deal?
- [01:15]
Anthony Finger
My investing journey starts way back in 2015. Wife and I, you know, young, no kids. At that point, starting our careers, making more than we could spend, started stashing up some money. We had about $10,000 to our name back then and I was like, okay, well, convent wisdom says go find a financial advisor, you know, start investing this money. And so we went with a Edward Jones advisor down the street, gave him 10,000 bucks in 2015, and then one year later we had $10,000. And it was, it was at that point where I was like, this doesn't seem quite right. And so that was really what catapulted me into the self education journey that I went on where I ended up taking all my money out of that financial advisor, went to Vanguard, opened up my own brokerage account, 10,500 bucks. April 2016. That started the journey. Fast forward to 2018 when I buy my first rental property. I'm already at like 80 something thousand dollars in that, in that account in three years. And I was like, wow, so this strategy works. You know, you don't have to pay a financial advisor. You just need to do boring index fund investing. But throughout those three years, I kind of got the itch to do something more. Okay. Index fund investing is, it's working, but it's also kind of boring in the sense that I think I could do more. And that's when biggerpockets came onto the scene, real estate investing. And so I just dove in and every drive to work, back to and fro listening to biggerpockets. And so 2018, in August, I finally bought my first deal. 130,000 in San Antonio. We lived in San Antonio, Texas at the time. So I wanted to do something in my backyard, something I could visit, something I could touch. And back then, you know, properties were pretty cheap. So 130,000 pretty boring. Three bedroom, two bath, single family home. It was at the end of a cul de sac, so it butted up against a green space. I would never have neighbors on that side at least. But the layout was pretty weird in the sense that it had when it was originally built. There was like a green space in the center of the house, so it was maybe like 5ft by 10ft, this little room that used to be exposed to the sky. And they would plant plants in there when I bought it that had since been covered. But it was like this like weird room in the middle of the house. So I don't know if that was pushing people away from buying it, but I saw it as an opportunity to get my first rental and it was really off to the races.
- [03:39]
Ashley Career
Anthony, I curious about your mindset at the time. You walked into a financial Advisor handed over $10,000, but for your first investment, you wanted something close, something you could touch in more control over that property. What would you say is like something a rookie investor should think about when they're delaying, taking action? Or maybe they, they want that sense of security. Is there a reason why you wanted to have something close to you that you could physically touch for the property, but yet the financial advisor you just handed over the money, maybe explain, like, what is the big difference and what can a rookie investor learn from you about this experience?
- [04:22]
Anthony Finger
I think you have a lot of conventional backing and wisdom that says you're supposed to give your money to a financial advisor. You know, this is the standard path. You get a job, you put some Money into your 401k. Anything left you give to a financial advisor. You hope that they can turn something around and do something with it. You give, pay them, you know, one and a half, 2%, and they manage your money for you. I think I just felt comfortable because that's what everybody's told, right? When it's, when it switches to real estate, I wanted to still be very conservative, right. I'm testing the waters I, I had never done it before. I don't have anybody in my family to lean on. They weren't doing this. I was actually pretty actively advised not to do it. And so again, you know, for other rookie investors, if you can invest in your backyard, it's just easier. I don't know, there's peace of mind, right? A barometer to test your investing strategy is always like, how well do you sleep at night? And it, for me it was like, okay, I can go drive for this property anytime I want. It's just 20 minutes away in the same town. And that worked for me. So if you're a rookie investor and you're, you're maybe analysis paralysis or waiting to get in or not sure when or where you got to get in the game at some point.
- [05:31]
Tony J. Robinson
Let me ask because you, you said something that I think a lot of, you know, know a lot of other rickets are probably struggling with. But you said that you had people in your life who were maybe actively discouraging you from getting into real estate. But I, I, I, I guess let me ask one question first and I, I'll hit you with a follow up. But how many people in your life, you know, your, your close personal circle at that time were actively building wealth through real estate?
- [05:53]
Anthony Finger
Zero.
- [05:54]
Tony J. Robinson
Okay. And I was hoping you'd say that. So knowing that that was the case, I guess how do, because we're all influenced by people that we know like and trust. So whether it's our parents, our co workers, our, you know, our friends, whoever it may be, we tend to take those opinions and value them. So how did you move past the doubt that they were trying to cast on your decision to become a real estate investor?
- [06:19]
Anthony Finger
The origin of that would be, I'm looking at super successful people, right? Multimillionaires, billionaires, people that own their own companies, run their own companies, successful investors. And just asking how they got there because everybody has the same 24 hours in a day, right? And then people's outcomes at retirement are vastly different. And so I've always kind of like looked at the end in mind and say everybody was operating at the same time frame and yet some people have more money they could possibly dream to spend and others, you know, are still working at Walmart into their 70s. And it's like, how, where's the disconnect? How do they do it? And so again, real estate keeps coming up and you gain confidence by analyzing properties. You know, I was listening to bigger pockets personally starting to read books on rental property investing. And so you just gain confidence. And I had the financial back, like I said, in my own personal cash at that point I had 80 something thousand. I was saving money every month, being frugal and my purchase price was 130,000. I was like, even if this all goes terribly wrong, it's pretty low threat, you know. And so that's how I eventually made the jump to get in.
- [07:33]
Tony J. Robinson
I couldn't agree more. I think taking advice from people who are well intentioned but uninformed is probably one of the most common yet most critical mistakes that rookies make. And for me, and hopefully for all the rookies that are listening, we can agree with this. It's like if you want to get into the best shape of your life, you don't go to your friend who is overweight. If you want to become the best parent, you don't go to the person who's the deadbeat dad. If you want to build wealth, you don't go to the person that hasn't built wealth before. So I think always being able to filter advice through the lens of have you actually achieved what it is that I'm trying to accomplish? And if the answer is no, hey, I love you, but I'm just going to take that advice, I'm going to set it to the side and I'm going to focus on implementing the advice from people who have actually done this before. And I think that small mindset shift is one of the most important things that a rookie can do as they're looking to get started.
- [08:28]
Anthony Finger
It's huge. It's huge, Exponentially huge for the rookie environment. Love my dad to death, great influence on my life. But you know, he's like, that's super risky, super risky. I don't know if you should do it. You know, he's comfortable with like bond investing. It is guaranteed 4% return. You know, like that's like where he's going. I was just like, there's something more here and I think I can do it. And you know, and if you have the right framework and you have the right analysis and you have the right mentors and the right guidance, you know, you eliminate a lot of that risk. Where at least I felt comfortable enough to then continue moving forward and then you start getting a track record and then you gain even more confidence, you know, and you guys know, it just takes a few years, a few, few acquisitions and then all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I got this. I see the blueprint.
- [09:16]
Ashley Career
Well, Anthony, we have to take a quick ad break, but when we come back, we want to hear more about your successful long term investing strategy. We'll be right back.
- [09:24]
Tony J. Robinson
Rookies.
- [09:25]
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- [10:48]
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- [11:28]
Ashley Career
Okay, welcome back to the show. Let's get back into it with Anthony. Okay, so can you just give us a quick overview before we go any further what your portfolio looks like today?
- [11:39]
Anthony Finger
So I am at nine units total, seven properties. So I have two duplexes, five of those units are owned by me and then four units are owned in a partnership with my brother in law. And when I say me, I mean wife and I.
- [11:53]
Ashley Career
She'll appreciate you including her specifying.
- [11:57]
Anthony Finger
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is our money. Our money.
- [12:00]
Tony J. Robinson
And Anthony, with those, with those nine doors, are they all traditional long term rentals or do you have a mix of strategies within that?
- [12:06]
Anthony Finger
Nope, all traditional long term rentals. You know, with the theme of the show, it's all boring long term investing. Throw long term debt at it, make sure it cash flows year one and then just let it appreciate. So portfolio values at roughly like 1.85 million. I have 660,000 in equity and outstanding loan balance is right around a million dollars. So it's, you know, leveraged pretty low at this point, keeping consistent with that conservative approach.
- [12:35]
Tony J. Robinson
And then with, with that size portfolio, just like ballpark. Anthony, how much cash flow do you think you're generating on a monthly or annual basis?
- [12:42]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, so monthly cash flow right now, like true cash flow after all expenses, about 2,400amonth. So which with that breakdown, it's like $250 a door, you know, and some of the newer stuff with the higher interest rates, it's a little harder. You know, some of those are just kind of breaking even. But I have. Ashley, you and I talked about this at bpcon, but I have one of those duplexes completely paid off. So that's covering me, right? That's straight cash flow. The overall portfolio is about 2,400amonth.
- [13:10]
Tony J. Robinson
So Anthony, you got seven properties, nine doors. Just again, tell us, where are those properties located?
- [13:16]
Anthony Finger
So I started in San Antonio, Texas. That was my backyard. I lived there from 2017 to 2020. So, you know, accumulated those five, six properties there. And then last year, 2024, it was getting pretty saturated, getting pretty hard in San Antonio. And so I was looking for a new market and eventually landed on Akron, Ohio. And I found them through rent to retirement and two properties in January, two single family properties, July, excuse me, in Akron, Ohio.
- [13:46]
Ashley Career
So let's go through that process of determining your new market. What are some of the things that drew you to Akron? And you know, how did you start? If someone is in your position, they can't invest anymore in their own market or it's not a great investment to start with what are some of the things they should be doing to narrow down? Like, okay, here's at least a state I want to invest in. What were your first beginning steps there?
- [14:11]
Anthony Finger
At least my framework was using, I think David Green coined it, but you know, your core four. So you're finding a property manager, you're finding a realtor, you're finding somebody you can trust some where. Where do you have a strategic advantage? Maybe it's family that lives somewhere. But then what was driving for me was I needed added cash flow. Like I said, the last properties I bought in 2023, they're brand new builds, they work, but they're basically breaking even. I was like, okay, I need my portfolio to be self sustaining and so I'm looking for cash flow. So that kind of drew me to the Midwest and I'm from Wisconsin. You know, I was looking in Green Bay and just looking around other places in the Midwest and branched out and looking for turnkey options as potential. And then that's what led me to rent to retirement. And rent to retirement basically landed me in Akron. I was just kind of following their guidance. I said, hey, we have this phenomenal property management team in Akron. We got a bunch of new properties that's coming soon there. And so got in contact with that local team and, you know, eventually landed two single families there.
- [15:21]
Ashley Career
So they were able to provide you with a lot of the data too, as to why this area would be a great investment.
- [15:28]
Anthony Finger
Correct? Yeah.
- [15:29]
Ashley Career
Yeah. That's awesome. I can see why that can save a lot of time.
- [15:32]
Anthony Finger
It does save a lot of time.
- [15:33]
Tony J. Robinson
And that's one of the benefits, right? Because, Ash, we recently did a rookie reply about turnkey investing and that is one of the benefits for a rookie is that a lot of the legwork, both in terms of market selection, team building, property identification, rehab management, tenant selection, all those things have been taken care of for you. So you can just kind of step in and virtually on day one have a property that's really related to rock and roll and, you know, in Anthony's case, even identify new markets for you.
- [16:02]
Anthony Finger
For the rookie audience, you should put this plug in. Not all turnkey investment companies are created equally. You guys have touched on this in numerous episodes. You know, definitely do your due diligence. I felt comfortable with Rent to Retirement just because they're a big name, they partner with bigger pockets. I think their reputational risk is a little bit higher. They're not going to try and, you know, get one over on an investor. And so that's Ultimately why I went with them. They do have great reviews. And so I can say that it is true. It's been nothing but smooth sailing with them since partnering with them. And so, yeah, just do your. If you're not going to use rent to retirement, they're not everywhere and all, you know, all states. So just make sure you're analyzing. Doing your due diligence there, picking the turnkey.
- [16:44]
Ashley Career
So, Anthony, we. You've gotten seven properties now during this time. Has anything gone wrong? Has it been smooth sailing? And, you know, you recently did the turnkey properties, but before that, were you doing any rehabs and kind of take us along that timeline of maybe some ups and downs you've had during your investment journey.
- [17:05]
Anthony Finger
I've definitely had some misses at nine units right now, seven properties. But I've. I've had a total of probably 13 units total. I've sold some off at this point. And so I bought a duplex December of 2020. So we're in the middle of COVID or like, you know, the ramp up of the deeps of COVID And the eviction moratorium came out. This duplex looked great on paper. For anybody who's familiar with the San Antonio market, you try not to buy south of I10. I went south of I10 and the cash flow was supposed to be phenomenal. And lo and behold, both tenants stopped paying. They took advantage of the eviction moratorium. Like, nope, we're not doing it. One half was breeding pit bulls in their property. The other half was in and out of our legal system and just kind of hanging out. And so that was a complete nightmare. Trying to get rent, trying to offer them cash for keys, trying just move that ball forward any way I could. I bought that duplex for 188,000, December of 2020, like I said. And almost immediately it was like, I gotta get out of this thing. And eventually sold that off in January of 2022. And I sold it for 212,000, basically just due to the COVID appreciation. Nothing that I did because they trashed the place. I put a lot into. We had to like fix the main water lines. They had to dig up the whole front yard. You know, major expenses as far as closing costs on the sale. I basically broke even there. But I put probably 15, 20 grand into additional expenses just to get it ready to sell. That could have been a lot worse. I know there's guests that come on that have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, in their real estate deals. But. But that was a big that was a miss for me. I got excited on the spreadsheet. The numbers look good, you know, 188,000 for this duplex. And each side was supposed to be getting like, you know, 1100. I'm like, oh, this is going to be great. It's like 12% cash on cash return. And that did not happen.
- [19:10]
Tony J. Robinson
And, you know, I think you're speaking to an experience, Anthony, that's true for all investors is that, you know, no one has like the perfect picker where they never, they never miss. Right. We've all gotten into deals or into situations where it's like, man, I overlooked X or I overlooked Y or overlooked Z. And I think it's part of maturing as a real estate investor and it makes you better for the next deal. I think one question that I have for you, right, because you've kind of got two different models going on or I guess are you self managing in San Antonio?
- [19:37]
Anthony Finger
No, I'm not. Nope.
- [19:38]
Tony J. Robinson
So you have, you have PMs in both markets then?
- [19:40]
Anthony Finger
I do. And I got that. I think it was Brandon Turner. You know, he's like, even if you're a rookie and you start investing, treat it like a business. And so that line of treating it like a business just stuck with me. You know, when I started back in 2018 with that first rental, I was like, I'm committed to making this work. I've seen the model work. I've listened to these bigger pockets for years now. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to get a property management in place. I don't feel comfortable managing it on my own. It's not a skill set that I have. I'm not going to be in Texas forever. You know, the military moved us there, moved out. And so, you know, from the very beginning, I was like, property management in place. Factor that into my numbers and just treating it like a business.
- [20:17]
Tony J. Robinson
Yeah, I like that. And that gives you the time to kind of focus on acquisition and growing the business, which is what you've been able to do. And within that, it sounds like you've also leveraged a few different strategies, right? You, you've, you've done the turnkey model, maybe some things that need a little bit of work. But then you also mentioned new builds. So, Anthony, was that you going out and like ground up construction yourself or just buying brand new builds from a developer?
- [20:40]
Anthony Finger
I wish, Tony. Yes, I definitely can go ground up construction on my own. No, I did not know. So it was just a product of the market. Right. So in 2023 in Texas. 2022 and 2023 basically flooded the market with, with new builds. And at the time new builds were just as expensive as older properties. And so I was like, well it just makes complete sense to buy a brand new property with low capex as instead of buying an older property and having to, you know, put money into fixing it up. And so it really was just taking advantage of what was given, thrown my way. And then at the time, which was really neat, is the builders had all these incentives, you know. So I bought this one single family on a 10 year ARM for 4.75% in 2023. Right. Everybody else's 7% mortgages and I got one locked in for 4.75. Another one I bought in March of 2023. They were, they're basically first quarter inventory they wanted to get off their books. And so it was a $270,000 property that they sold to me for 240 just to get it off their books. So right there at the closing table, already walked into 30 grand in equity. So it's really just paying attention to your market again, knowing your market, understanding your market and staying flexible and still boring long term strategy, but it works well. Yep.
- [22:04]
Tony J. Robinson
Yeah. And Ash and I we interviewed Donovan Adacero on the rookie podcast and his strategy was kind of combining house hacking with new builds. So basically he would go into like one of these big, you know, developments from these large builders. He would buy in the first phase, you know, you know, he's a single guy, he get a property much bigger than what he needed as a single person, move in, get all of these, you know, credits and incentives from the builder. So he gets in at a really good price, live there for a couple of years while he's renting out the other rooms. By the time he's, you know, been there for a year or two, they finished building out that whole community, they're now on phase 20 and he's seen, you know, 10, 20% appreciation and then he was just like jumping from one new development to the next. And I think he had done like, I don't know, 14 deals or something crazy like that, kind of leveraging this new build strategy.
- [22:54]
Ashley Career
Like he was already putting, when he'd move into the first house, he was already putting a deposit down to another builder to that for the next development and waiting for the house to be built for a year and then, you know, fulfill his mortgage obligation living there for a year and then the next one would be ready and he'd go to the next one. And yeah, it was, it was definitely really interesting and cool.
- [23:15]
Tony J. Robinson
Extreme house hacking.
- [23:16]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, sounds like it.
- [23:17]
Tony J. Robinson
All right, guys, we've got to take one final ad break. We're going to hear more from Anthony in a bit. But while we're gone, if you guys haven't yet subscribed to the real estate rookie YouTube channel, be sure to do that. Head over to YouTube.comalestate rookie. You guys can see me and Ashley and all of our beautiful guests. And we're also doing a lot of YouTube specific content there as well. So again, YouTube.com eaterooky and we'll be right back.
- [23:38]
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- [24:15]
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Anthony Finger
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Ashley Career
One offer per account.
- [26:52]
Tony J. Robinson
All right guys, welcome back. So we're here with Anthony and we've been talking about his strategy for building his portfolio using the kind of steady yet boring, boring process. Now, Anthony, if I understand your story correctly, you kind of slowed down a little bit as you were scaling up your portfolio because seven properties, nine doors, you move pretty quickly, but you intentionally kind of took a beat. Why was that and what value did you see from doing that?
- [27:18]
Anthony Finger
I intentionally took 2021 off because at that time, again, I didn't have anybody that I knew in real estate investing. I was doing this on my own. I'm just listening to the podcast feeling like Brandon Turner is my friend even though he has no idea who I am. And you know, I bought 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 properties between 2018 and 2020 and I was just like, I need for my own sanity, just like, take a pause here. I'm going to start building up those cash reserves again, let these properties kind of play out. And again that how well do you sleep at night? Factor was basically at play in 2021, where I was like, okay, let me just take a pause. Also, eviction moratorium is going on. I have this terrible duplex that I'm trying to navigate and get off my front, get off my hands. So 2021 was a pause a week before BPCON, so it was October, and I just paid off that duplex. So I said at the beginning of the show that I got a duplex has paid off, so dropped a property, eliminated a mortgage, and just had that as straight cash flow. And then the intent is, you know, put a HELOC on there, and then I can use that capital to fund more real estate. So not necessarily a pause, but it's just kind of restructuring the debt to something a little bit more conservative. That felt.
- [28:32]
Ashley Career
And to help you sleep at night to have a paid off property.
- [28:35]
Anthony Finger
That's right. And it keeps it more comfortable for me. Yep.
- [28:37]
Tony J. Robinson
I think there's a lot of value to Anthony and. And like, intentionally taking a pause. And Ash and I, we literally just did an episode recently about, like, the dangers of scaling too fast. And it's so funny because it. Not only is that a thing in real estate, but it's just a thing in business where people try and move too fast. And I read. I read a news article this morning about Forever 21. You guys know Forever 21, they're like the fashion retailer. They're in most malls across America, and they just filed for bankruptcy for the second time in the last six years. And I was reading this article, and they said part of the reason that Forever 21, which, you know, had peaked in, you know, I think, like, $4.6 billion in revenue at one point globally. The reason that they collapsed was because they were focused too much on expansion. And they didn't realize that there were these other threats that were creeping into the market space or eating up some of their market share. They were buying up or leasing out spaces that a lot of the other retailers were leaving, but they never thought to ask, well, why did these other retailers leave these spots? You know, they have places like Fashion Nova and Timu and all these other places, but they were so focused on scale and Sheen and Shein. Yeah. That they. They weren't looking at, okay, well, what's actually going on beneath us? And now, you know, they're closing headquarters. So anyway, I. I share that story. To say that as rookies, I think sometimes we get so focused on the unit count, sometimes we get so focused on, I Want X deals, you know, by, by, you know, X time frame. That sometimes what's more important is 30 at 30, right? Yeah, 40, 40, 50, 50, whatever it is. But it's like, how can I protect what I already have? And how can I make sure that I'm building a foundation that's sustainable and that's maybe a conversation we don't have enough in the world of real estate investing. So anyway, Anthony, kudos to you for having that, that kind of internal discussion and realizing, okay, now it's time for me to restructure to make sure that I can, I can keep growing.
- [30:27]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, 100%, Tony. And we didn't really talk about kind of end state throughout this episode, but for me, I'm molding to two models that have been given out. Chad Carson's small, mighty real estate investor. I really like that model. You don't need 100 doors. Like you said, Tony, people get caught up with the I got 100 doors and I did, you know, 70 deals in three years and all this stuff. You don't need that many. And then another strategy that I really, really like that resonates with me is David Green's 15. 15, 15. So you buy 15 properties over 15 years on 15 year mortgages and you basically, you know, you can recycle that. So over 15 years you now have 15 properties that are getting paid off every single year. You can refinance them at, you know, 50% loan to value, so they still cash flow plenty. But then you're pulling out, right? So let's say you have 15 properties at $250,000 each. That 16th year, you now have that property that's paid off. You can refinance it for 125,000. So it's 50%. You now have 125 grand in your pocket that you don't pay taxes on. Right. That's a loan. And then it still cash flows because it's only 50% loan to value. And then you just do that every single year. Meanwhile, the other 14 properties are still cash flowing every year. So it's kind of like a model of. That makes a lot of sense to me. And then also the small and mighty real estate investors. So, you know, my plan is to continue this boring investing one, one or two properties a year for the next 10 years or so. And at that point I will have options. I can either pay them off, have straight cash flow, flip them to something that's maybe a little more hands off, but just gives me a kind of a guaranteed return or Just continue the model. Right. Because it's just kind of, you do it on the side and make sure your numbers are straight and, and you can kind of do it in perpetuity. So those are my end goal that I keep in mind.
- [32:23]
Ashley Career
Anthony, I'm curious about the 15, 15, 15 strategy. I haven't heard really about this yet that David Green has talked about. So kind of a follow up question to that is have you looked at deals that actually pencil out with getting just a 15 year mortgage with the amortization over 15 instead of 30 years, which most investors do so that their payment is lower every month. And in David's green, 15, 15, 15. Is it the fact that you're. He has talked about like sometimes it's okay to lose money, sometimes it's okay to break even. And is that part of this strategy.
- [32:57]
Anthony Finger
That he talks about in the book? Right. And the strategy, when you lay it out, it's always like a perfect world. And this was a lot easier five years ago. You know, you could find properties that still cash flowed with the 15 mortgage rates. Then 2022 hit and, and that changed things a lot. So like you to your point, Ashley, you know, can your portfolio sustain it? 15 year mortgages may not work. Maybe put it on a 30 year mortgage and then pay it off early as you can. I did buy one property back in 2020, end of 2020 that I put on a 15 year mortgage that's still cash flowed and then that was the property that I actually ended up selling to pay off the mortgage that I did last year.
- [33:34]
Ashley Career
You mean you could also put more money down, just invest more capital so that your payment is lower so you're putting more money up front. And I think that kind of ties back into how we started the episode is, you know, you were investing in stocks and just putting money in there that money sometimes isn't. Sometimes some stocks aren't giving you a dividend or you're not actually seeing that money come back to you like you do cash flow from a property. So sometimes maybe it is okay, like here's $50,000, I'm going to give a larger down payment even though I don't have to for that sense of security that the property is going to generate cash flow. So if there is some kind of, you know, expense or something like that that comes up, I have this cash flow. So you know, maybe there are some like works workarounds. Even though it is harder to make a property cash flow doing the 15 year mortgage, maybe there's different ways to run the numbers where you're investing more upfront so that you can do that in 15 years, 16 years, 17 years, 18 years is, you know, pay off those properties and then pull that money back out. And I think too, like we touched a little bit on, you had a 40% savings rate at one point too. So like, if somebody is willing to buckle down and to save that money, you're able to actually generate a lot of money to invest into real estate. And if you want to be super cautious and you want to be low risk, put more money down. Like, don't be over leveraged, have more in savings and in reserves and don't, you know, squeeze yourself by having very little cash flow, barely making anything. And you'll, that's just another way that you can make the deal work is if you look at cash on cash return and maybe it can pencil out in the long run instead of just looking at year one, year two. But, but if you're using that 15 year strategy, what does that actually look like in 15 years once that mortgage is paid down, Once you've built up appreciation and equity in the property too.
- [35:42]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, Ashley, just to add to that, the, at its simplest form, right, like a dollar saved is a dollar earned. And that's why I try to live below my means and try and get that savings rate as high as possible. Because that is a form of cash flow, right? Like this is a real estate podcast focused on cash flow through real estate, but through your own W2 paycheck, you know, if you can save 20% of that paycheck, you know, if it's 5,000amonth and you save a thousand, that's a thousand bucks that could have been, you know, you could have blown or you're saving it. And to get a thousand dollars a month through a real estate property is a lot more difficult than just doing it through your job. So a dollar saved is a dollar earned is a great takeaway.
- [36:25]
Tony J. Robinson
And I think what I appreciate about this discussion is that we're, we're focused on long term success. And I think the society that we live in today, whether it's social media or, you know, whatever it is, we've got not only short attention spans, but we've also got like a lot of impatience when it comes to achieving our goals. And because we see, you know, like you said, you know, I did 70 deals in 26 days, you know, it's like we see these sensational headlines, we think that's the norm. But in reality, most people who are building sustainable wealth through real estate are doing it over the long term. And I think if we can start to reframe what it means to be a successful real estate investor from, you know, exceptional speed and big portfolios to long sustainable wealth, then it makes it a little bit easier for us to follow the format that you guys are talking about here. You know, 15, 15, 15. We're talking 15 years, almost two decades. I think most people don't want to wait that long.
- [37:17]
Ashley Career
Anthony, real quick before we wrap up here, what was after you paid off that property, what's your total equity right now in real estate?
- [37:25]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, right now, Conservatively it's about 660,000.
- [37:29]
Ashley Career
How much capital have you put into properties with down payments or maybe to fund capex repairs like over time? How does that Compare to your 600,000 in equity you have?
- [37:41]
Anthony Finger
That's a good question. I haven't broke it down that way. I could do some quick math, but I have done 25% down, 30% down for all of these properties.
- [37:50]
Ashley Career
Do you think more or less than the 600,000?
- [37:53]
Anthony Finger
Oh man, way less. Right. Market appreciation has grown. Yeah.
- [37:57]
Ashley Career
And that's my point right there is like you're getting paid $2,400 a month and the money you have invested already has grown that much. Like let's say even it's 300,000 you've invested, you know, your capital that you put into these properties, you've already doubled that in equity and you're getting that $2,400 a month. We've had guests that come on and say like wow, I get $10,000 a month. I get, you know, these large amounts that could be one time opportunities or these, you know, they've really grinded and worked hard to get that amazing cash flow. But like this is, this is realistic. If you save, you invest this capital, these are the things that can happen to you. It's super simple to do. It's not like, oh, here's this amazing one time deal that's going to come along in your life and you have to watch for the perfect, perfect opportunity like here. This is just a great example and I think super relatable to rookies. The story is something they can actually start doing today is replicate your long term investing strategy that you're doing.
- [39:06]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, that's one of the biggest takeaways that I just want to put out there is not everybody does what you and Tony do. Right. Like where they're active. You guys made the decision to jump in. You're doing this full time. I is an assumption of mine. The majority of the audience probably is working a W2 job. They're investing on the side, they're trying to grow. And I just want the message to you guys all to be like, don't think that you are a failure because you don't have 70 doors by the time you're 24. And you know, if you buy one or two a year, real estate is a get rich quick scheme. If you consider 15 years quick. Right. What's the alternative? You Average person works 45 years and then they retire. Right. So you can cut that down to a third in 15 years. Your life and financial picture can be dramatically different. Right. I'm seven years in, so I'm halfway to that 15 point and it's already, you know, I'm almost joining that, that 2 comma club here probably in a couple months. So it's, you know, it's outstanding. And I just want, it's okay if you take it slow and you're boring and you put your 25% down and you get your 30% conventional mortgage and you slowly accumulate over time. You're not a failure. You're doing it right and you're doing it conservative.
- [40:19]
Ashley Career
Well, Anthony, thank you so much for coming on to the episode today. We really appreciated having you. Can you let everyone know where they can reach out to you?
- [40:28]
Anthony Finger
Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on Instagram @aore finger22. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Anthony Finger. Just search my name there. You can find me on Bigger Pockets. There's a big blown up picture of, of my face there and you can find me there. And that's, that's probably the best places to reach out to me.
- [40:47]
Ashley Career
And will they find you at bpcon this year in Las Vegas?
- [40:52]
Anthony Finger
I am trying to get my business partner, my brother in law to come with me this year. I think it's convincing my sister to get, get him to go. But yeah, I'm hoping, I'm hoping to join you guys. Last year in Cancun was a lot of fun.
- [41:07]
Ashley Career
Yeah. If you guys want to come and meet Anthony, go to biggerpockets.com bpcon so that you can also secure your spot at the conference and we'll see you guys there, hopefully. Well, Anthony, thank you again so much for coming on today, sharing your value, sharing your story. I'm Ashley and he's Tony and we'll see you guys on the next episode of Real Estate Rookie.